Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Surviving Driving
()
Date: October 22, 2011 10:06PM
Bring on the mad mothers; self righteous, indignant and self justified in every way, all because they drive a bloody Mom Bomb and have some screaming larva in the backseat with a "baby on board" sign stuck to the back window. So, what's prompting me to post this is because today I was traveling eastbound on Centreville Farms following a dreaded minivan when all of a sudden the brake lights come on for no apparent reason and she slams to an abrupt stop with no warning. I, being alert enough, swerve around her passing her on the left and blasting my horn at her for obstructing traffic, as does the vehicle behind me.
At the next light of course, self righteous Mom Bomb comes reeling up to my side lowering her window and screaming "Didn't you see those pedestrians"? Which I politely replied "yes, I saw the pedestrians waiting to cross (as they should) and I saw you stop in the middle of a 4 lane thoroughfare, illegally impeding traffic and nearly causing an accident", to which she shouted more self righteous, unintelligible Mom kinda stuff and drove off, speeding.
Granted , what she did was a nice gesture but nevertheless wrong. To be sure I called the Fairfax County Police non emergency number and explained the situation to the officer, who informed me that by stopping in the middle of the road where there is no stop sign, stop light, walk light or anything other than a cross walk that she was indeed in the wrong no matter how nice her gesture was. These pedestrians were not in the crosswalk, they were up on the curb.
So I ask Mom Bomb drivers everywhere to learn the traffic laws, don't make them up according to what you think may be right. It is my job to know the traffic laws for my job, but it is your responsibility as a Mother to know them as well, and BTW, don't ever approach a total stranger and try to tell them what the law is , especially when you are wrong, you could end up dead.
At the next light of course, self righteous Mom Bomb comes reeling up to my side lowering her window and screaming "Didn't you see those pedestrians"? Which I politely replied "yes, I saw the pedestrians waiting to cross (as they should) and I saw you stop in the middle of a 4 lane thoroughfare, illegally impeding traffic and nearly causing an accident", to which she shouted more self righteous, unintelligible Mom kinda stuff and drove off, speeding.
Granted , what she did was a nice gesture but nevertheless wrong. To be sure I called the Fairfax County Police non emergency number and explained the situation to the officer, who informed me that by stopping in the middle of the road where there is no stop sign, stop light, walk light or anything other than a cross walk that she was indeed in the wrong no matter how nice her gesture was. These pedestrians were not in the crosswalk, they were up on the curb.
So I ask Mom Bomb drivers everywhere to learn the traffic laws, don't make them up according to what you think may be right. It is my job to know the traffic laws for my job, but it is your responsibility as a Mother to know them as well, and BTW, don't ever approach a total stranger and try to tell them what the law is , especially when you are wrong, you could end up dead.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
I hate minivans!
()
Date: October 22, 2011 10:11PM
Minivans drivers suck!
I always try and go around them.
I always try and go around them.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
betterthanyoubitch
()
Date: October 22, 2011 10:13PM
The worst are those cunts with one kid who own a minivan. Why???? You have ONE kid! You can fit soccer balls in the trunk of a fucking Camry!
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Minivan MEN
()
Date: October 22, 2011 10:15PM
The worst is when you see a dude driving a minivan.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: October 22, 2011 10:44PM
This explains it all...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Gonads & Strife
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:05PM
This phenomenon extends beyond "idiot wagon"-driving moms when you're near a W&OD trail crossing.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
K.C. Faggot
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:11PM
you see them with their idiot husbands going to wolf trap caring a shit load of food. only to set up on the law and dance around like a bunch of kansas city faggots.
I hate this area.
I hate this area.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Not a van fan either
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:17PM
While on my bike at an intersection, a minivan mom with two kids in her van struck me from behind. I turned and looked at her like "what were you thinking?" So as to not impede traffic, I pulled across the two lane road to stop and look at the damge knowing full well she would stop. As I got off my bike, she drove away. I chased her down and motioned for her to pull over. She stopped and I asked her if she always leaves the scene of the accident? She looked at my bike and said, "I don't see any damage." I pointed it out to her -- it was quite obvious and she said, "how do I know that wasn't already there?" At that point, I bit my tongue and called the cops. FFX's finest comes and of course said the damage wasn't worthy of writing a report. (BS given it was a new HD.) Long/short is she wasn't charged and she reluctantly exchanged insurance information and her insurance will pay. Another Virginia Run mom with her head up her ass.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:17PM
They are habitual tailgaters. They must all be running late for their empty lives.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
lolololol
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:25PM
I drive a loser cruiser because I'm basically forced to. And I'm a guy.
Not to mention, I drive like a complete dumbass and no one cares what are you going to do to my shit mobile?
Not to mention, I drive like a complete dumbass and no one cares what are you going to do to my shit mobile?
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
eesh
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:27PM
The worst minivan drivers are the ones with those family window stickers.
-
Attachments:
-
Attachments:
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Neville
()
Date: October 22, 2011 11:52PM
Surviving Driving,
I hope you call someone else at Fairfax County Police with all the details. You may very well find yourself turning yourself in for Reckless Driving. A specific example of reckless driving is passing a vehicle stopped for pedestrians. Reckless Driving can mean a six month suspension to your license.
By passing the woman's vehicle stopped for pedestrians at a crosswalk (and it sounds like the woman was in the right to do so, since Centerville Farms Road is a 35mph road and drivers are supposed to yield to pedestrians at intersections without signals at that speed or at painted crosswalks without signals at any speed, ref http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924), you may have engaged in reckless driving "in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person." You can find more in both Fairfax County Ordinances (at http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=10051&stateID=46&statename=Virginia in Section 82-4-2. Reckless driving; specific instances) and also in Virginia Code.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-858
46.2-858.
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction at any railroad grade crossing or at any intersection of highways unless such vehicles are being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of travel or unless such intersection is designated and marked as a passing zone or on a designated one-way street or highway, or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer.
Please keep us posted on how your next conversation with the police goes.
I hope you call someone else at Fairfax County Police with all the details. You may very well find yourself turning yourself in for Reckless Driving. A specific example of reckless driving is passing a vehicle stopped for pedestrians. Reckless Driving can mean a six month suspension to your license.
By passing the woman's vehicle stopped for pedestrians at a crosswalk (and it sounds like the woman was in the right to do so, since Centerville Farms Road is a 35mph road and drivers are supposed to yield to pedestrians at intersections without signals at that speed or at painted crosswalks without signals at any speed, ref http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924), you may have engaged in reckless driving "in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person." You can find more in both Fairfax County Ordinances (at http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=10051&stateID=46&statename=Virginia in Section 82-4-2. Reckless driving; specific instances) and also in Virginia Code.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-858
46.2-858.
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction at any railroad grade crossing or at any intersection of highways unless such vehicles are being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of travel or unless such intersection is designated and marked as a passing zone or on a designated one-way street or highway, or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer.
Please keep us posted on how your next conversation with the police goes.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Andrew Ryan
()
Date: October 23, 2011 12:53AM
eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst minivan drivers are the ones with those
> family window stickers.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
So fucking true! Lowest of the Low are the ones with "The _____ Family" underneath...
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst minivan drivers are the ones with those
> family window stickers.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
So fucking true! Lowest of the Low are the ones with "The _____ Family" underneath...
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Help is Coming
()
Date: October 23, 2011 06:28AM
Actually, there is some positive news on the minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler announced that it would no longer make the minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town & Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the company will focus on more of the crossover type of vehicles.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Kilton
()
Date: October 23, 2011 06:38AM
Surviving Driving Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I ask Mom Bomb drivers everywhere to learn the
> traffic laws, don't make them up according to what
> you think may be right.
You are absolutely right about the overzealous crosswalk stopping that has infected our roadways. These are people who have an obsessive need to be the "nice person" on the road to make up for some other shortfall in their lives.
Unfortunately, bad drivers like this think that the rear view mirror is only for backing up -- they pretty much never look at it any other time. So when this dingbat slammed on her breaks, she likely didn't even know you were behind her. Thank heavens you were able to avoid a collision -- odds are it would have been considered your fault.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I ask Mom Bomb drivers everywhere to learn the
> traffic laws, don't make them up according to what
> you think may be right.
You are absolutely right about the overzealous crosswalk stopping that has infected our roadways. These are people who have an obsessive need to be the "nice person" on the road to make up for some other shortfall in their lives.
Unfortunately, bad drivers like this think that the rear view mirror is only for backing up -- they pretty much never look at it any other time. So when this dingbat slammed on her breaks, she likely didn't even know you were behind her. Thank heavens you were able to avoid a collision -- odds are it would have been considered your fault.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
wut?
()
Date: October 23, 2011 07:15AM
Help is Coming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, there is some positive news on the
> minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler
> announced that it would no longer make the
> minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge
> minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town &
> Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the
> company will focus on more of the crossover type
> of vehicles.
uh, how is this positive news??? it's not like it will get any bad drivers off the road.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, there is some positive news on the
> minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler
> announced that it would no longer make the
> minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge
> minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town &
> Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the
> company will focus on more of the crossover type
> of vehicles.
uh, how is this positive news??? it's not like it will get any bad drivers off the road.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Parental Opinion
()
Date: October 23, 2011 10:18AM
betterthanyoubitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst are those cunts with one kid who own a
> minivan. Why???? You have ONE kid! You can fit
> soccer balls in the trunk of a fucking Camry!
Uh...we explicitly bought a minivan with convertible seats to haul things around like, for example, full 4x8 sheets of plywood/sheetrock, move furniture, carry our new 50" TV back from the store, and...
...to haul around our single kid and her friends, or visiting relatives, or any of a number of other useful things you can do with an enclosed pickup truck-equivalent.
Works well.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst are those cunts with one kid who own a
> minivan. Why???? You have ONE kid! You can fit
> soccer balls in the trunk of a fucking Camry!
Uh...we explicitly bought a minivan with convertible seats to haul things around like, for example, full 4x8 sheets of plywood/sheetrock, move furniture, carry our new 50" TV back from the store, and...
...to haul around our single kid and her friends, or visiting relatives, or any of a number of other useful things you can do with an enclosed pickup truck-equivalent.
Works well.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Parental Opinion
()
Date: October 23, 2011 10:22AM
Help is Coming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Instead, the company will focus on more of the crossover type
> of vehicles.
Instead, they've yielded to the current marketing demands of supplying useless-in-most-of-the-U.S. 4-wheel drive cars to the masses.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Instead, the company will focus on more of the crossover type
> of vehicles.
Instead, they've yielded to the current marketing demands of supplying useless-in-most-of-the-U.S. 4-wheel drive cars to the masses.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
SUVs
()
Date: October 23, 2011 10:28AM
I've found the self centered bitches driving big SUVs to be the worst offenders. Cruising along in their Toyota Sequoia, yacking on the cell, oblivious to their surroundings.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
see them 2
()
Date: October 23, 2011 10:34AM
There is a minivan mom in my neighborhood who is always on one crusade or another. It usually involves something that will benefit her family and cost taxpayers more money.
The last one was putting in speed bumps. Her argument was speeding cars, which really are not a problem at all. The problem is she lets her kids play in the street. The state finally put them in I guess to shut her and some other like thinking moms up. To further fuck things up they put in a bunch of four way stop signs.
A few weeks ago guess who blew through the four way stop and almost took me out as I was in the crosswalk?
The last one was putting in speed bumps. Her argument was speeding cars, which really are not a problem at all. The problem is she lets her kids play in the street. The state finally put them in I guess to shut her and some other like thinking moms up. To further fuck things up they put in a bunch of four way stop signs.
A few weeks ago guess who blew through the four way stop and almost took me out as I was in the crosswalk?
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Near George Mason
()
Date: October 23, 2011 10:45AM
We have a mini van driver who backs out of her parking space for 50 feet at a fast speed until she reaches the main road. There are about 20 cars that she passes on the way. We were backing out of our space 40 feet from her and she did not even stop when she almost hit us on the passenger side door. She could just back up 10 feet and then go forward around the parking circle to the main road. No clue as to why she insists on backing up and not even looking.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: October 23, 2011 12:20PM
Anyone who feels the need to prove they have a happy family by posting stick figures of said happy family on their van probably doesn't have one. Also, I have honor students in my family. I don't need the bumper of my van to reinforce that fact.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
awful family stick figures
()
Date: October 23, 2011 12:27PM
I HATE those family stickers. No one cares you have too many kids and pets. Losers.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
yates ford
()
Date: October 23, 2011 02:15PM
awful family stick figures Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I HATE those family stickers. No one cares you
> have too many kids and pets. Losers.
Here is my sticker.
Attachments:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I HATE those family stickers. No one cares you
> have too many kids and pets. Losers.
Here is my sticker.
Attachments:
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
poopstick
()
Date: October 23, 2011 02:32PM
Neville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surviving Driving,
>
> I hope you call someone else at Fairfax County
> Police with all the details. You may very well
> find yourself turning yourself in for Reckless
> Driving. A specific example of reckless driving
> is passing a vehicle stopped for pedestrians.
> Reckless Driving can mean a six month suspension
> to your license.
>
> By passing the woman's vehicle stopped for
> pedestrians at a crosswalk (and it sounds like the
> woman was in the right to do so, since Centerville
> Farms Road is a 35mph road and drivers are
> supposed to yield to pedestrians at intersections
> without signals at that speed or at painted
> crosswalks without signals at any speed, ref
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
> d+46.2-924), you may have engaged in reckless
> driving "in a manner so as to endanger the life,
> limb, or property of any person." You can find
> more in both Fairfax County Ordinances (at
> http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=10
> 051&stateID=46&statename=Virginia in Section
> 82-4-2. Reckless driving; specific instances) and
> also in Virginia Code.
>
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
> d+46.2-858
>
> 46.2-858.
>
> A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who
> overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding
> in the same direction at any railroad grade
> crossing or at any intersection of highways unless
> such vehicles are being operated on a highway
> having two or more designated lanes of roadway for
> each direction of travel or unless such
> intersection is designated and marked as a passing
> zone or on a designated one-way street or highway,
> or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass
> in front of either of such vehicles, unless
> permitted so to do by a traffic light or
> law-enforcement officer.
>
> Please keep us posted on how your next
> conversation with the police goes.
Typical twat
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surviving Driving,
>
> I hope you call someone else at Fairfax County
> Police with all the details. You may very well
> find yourself turning yourself in for Reckless
> Driving. A specific example of reckless driving
> is passing a vehicle stopped for pedestrians.
> Reckless Driving can mean a six month suspension
> to your license.
>
> By passing the woman's vehicle stopped for
> pedestrians at a crosswalk (and it sounds like the
> woman was in the right to do so, since Centerville
> Farms Road is a 35mph road and drivers are
> supposed to yield to pedestrians at intersections
> without signals at that speed or at painted
> crosswalks without signals at any speed, ref
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
> d+46.2-924), you may have engaged in reckless
> driving "in a manner so as to endanger the life,
> limb, or property of any person." You can find
> more in both Fairfax County Ordinances (at
> http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=10
> 051&stateID=46&statename=Virginia in Section
> 82-4-2. Reckless driving; specific instances) and
> also in Virginia Code.
>
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
> d+46.2-858
>
> 46.2-858.
>
> A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who
> overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding
> in the same direction at any railroad grade
> crossing or at any intersection of highways unless
> such vehicles are being operated on a highway
> having two or more designated lanes of roadway for
> each direction of travel or unless such
> intersection is designated and marked as a passing
> zone or on a designated one-way street or highway,
> or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass
> in front of either of such vehicles, unless
> permitted so to do by a traffic light or
> law-enforcement officer.
>
> Please keep us posted on how your next
> conversation with the police goes.
Typical twat
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
shittyquality
()
Date: October 23, 2011 04:19PM
Check the crash ratings before you buy one
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Black Adam
()
Date: October 23, 2011 04:24PM
shittyquality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check the crash ratings before you buy one
>
>
tru dat
Yours in Christ
Black Adam
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check the crash ratings before you buy one
>
>
tru dat
Yours in Christ
Black Adam
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Minivans are for the poor
()
Date: October 23, 2011 04:38PM
If they could afford a real car they would. Please don't tell me how you love your deluxe minivan either. BS.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
wnrsm
()
Date: October 24, 2011 06:49AM
Help is Coming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, there is some positive news on the
> minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler
> announced that it would no longer make the
> minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge
> minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town &
> Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the
> company will focus on more of the crossover type
> of vehicles.
Coming soon... a thread titled...
"SUV Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?"
It is the distracted mama bear idiot behind the wheel, not whats attached underneath the wheel.
Before the days of mobile phones being stuck in every moron's ear, minivan/moms were the most likely vehicle to almost kill me on my motorcycle. I attributed it to boredom, distraction, exhaustion, etc.
The vehicle now most likely to kill me on my motorcycle is tied between "any taxi or airport shuttle" or "Maryland license plates."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, there is some positive news on the
> minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler
> announced that it would no longer make the
> minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge
> minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town &
> Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the
> company will focus on more of the crossover type
> of vehicles.
Coming soon... a thread titled...
"SUV Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?"
It is the distracted mama bear idiot behind the wheel, not whats attached underneath the wheel.
Before the days of mobile phones being stuck in every moron's ear, minivan/moms were the most likely vehicle to almost kill me on my motorcycle. I attributed it to boredom, distraction, exhaustion, etc.
The vehicle now most likely to kill me on my motorcycle is tied between "any taxi or airport shuttle" or "Maryland license plates."
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
wnrsm
()
Date: October 24, 2011 06:54AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone who feels the need to prove they have a
> happy family by posting stick figures of said
> happy family on their van probably doesn't have
> one. Also, I have honor students in my family. I
> don't need the bumper of my van to reinforce that
> fact.
My wife thought they were neat and wanted to get some.
I don't play the "I'm the man of the house" card much, but I did that day.
If you see some guy with those stickers on his car, don't harass him. He lost his man card and is probably on his way to the store to buy tampons and White Zinfandel.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone who feels the need to prove they have a
> happy family by posting stick figures of said
> happy family on their van probably doesn't have
> one. Also, I have honor students in my family. I
> don't need the bumper of my van to reinforce that
> fact.
My wife thought they were neat and wanted to get some.
I don't play the "I'm the man of the house" card much, but I did that day.
If you see some guy with those stickers on his car, don't harass him. He lost his man card and is probably on his way to the store to buy tampons and White Zinfandel.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Warhawk
()
Date: October 24, 2011 07:02AM
WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone who feels the need to prove they have a
> happy family by posting stick figures of said
> happy family on their van probably doesn't have
> one. Also, I have honor students in my family. I
> don't need the bumper of my van to reinforce that
> fact.
+1. My immediate neighbors have those family stickers on their minivan and they could not be more dysfunctional. This is the wife's second marriage and she lost custody of her children from the first one. She and her husband are always insulting each other and talking down to one another. I've seen thier toddler playing in the street with neither of them around.
__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone who feels the need to prove they have a
> happy family by posting stick figures of said
> happy family on their van probably doesn't have
> one. Also, I have honor students in my family. I
> don't need the bumper of my van to reinforce that
> fact.
+1. My immediate neighbors have those family stickers on their minivan and they could not be more dysfunctional. This is the wife's second marriage and she lost custody of her children from the first one. She and her husband are always insulting each other and talking down to one another. I've seen thier toddler playing in the street with neither of them around.
__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
MD Reckless
()
Date: October 24, 2011 07:54AM
wnrsm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Help is Coming Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, there is some positive news on the
> > minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler
> > announced that it would no longer make the
> > minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge
> > minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town &
> > Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the
> > company will focus on more of the crossover
> type
> > of vehicles.
>
> Coming soon... a thread titled...
> "SUV Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?"
>
> It is the distracted mama bear idiot behind the
> wheel, not whats attached underneath the wheel.
>
> Before the days of mobile phones being stuck in
> every moron's ear, minivan/moms were the most
> likely vehicle to almost kill me on my motorcycle.
> I attributed it to boredom, distraction,
> exhaustion, etc.
>
> The vehicle now most likely to kill me on my
> motorcycle is tied between "any taxi or airport
> shuttle" or "Maryland license plates."
+1 on the "Maryland license plate"
-------------------------------------------------------
> Help is Coming Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, there is some positive news on the
> > minivan front ... a week or two back, Chrysler
> > announced that it would no longer make the
> > minivan. Yes, after what began as the Dodge
> > minivan, Plymouth Voyager, or Chrysler Town &
> > Country will soon be ... toast. Instead, the
> > company will focus on more of the crossover
> type
> > of vehicles.
>
> Coming soon... a thread titled...
> "SUV Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?"
>
> It is the distracted mama bear idiot behind the
> wheel, not whats attached underneath the wheel.
>
> Before the days of mobile phones being stuck in
> every moron's ear, minivan/moms were the most
> likely vehicle to almost kill me on my motorcycle.
> I attributed it to boredom, distraction,
> exhaustion, etc.
>
> The vehicle now most likely to kill me on my
> motorcycle is tied between "any taxi or airport
> shuttle" or "Maryland license plates."
+1 on the "Maryland license plate"
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: October 24, 2011 07:55AM
Neville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please keep us posted on how your next
> conversation with the police goes.
All of these laws deal with pedestrians at intersections. The way I read the original post was the people were not at a cross walk and either way, were waiting to cross. I don't think the intent of the law was to have people slamming on their brakes every time someone was standing at a curb possibly contemplating crossing.
"§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty."
"At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour."
"No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."
If the above driver failed to yeild to pedestrians at a crosswalk, then he was wrong. However, It doesn't sound like they were even in the road. I'd argue that one driver stopping on a busy 4 lane road to encourage a pedestrian to cross is actually creating a much more dangerous situation for the pedestrians.
Imagine you're driving down the street and a car appears to be stopped in the right lane (maybe they spilled their Venti Latte in their lap, or maybe they're switching out their kid's Hannah Montana DVD?) You switch to the left lane to pass the vehicle and suddenly realize there is a family coming out from in front of the stopped vehicle and into your grill because the driver of the parked car let them cross.
I see this same situation all the time where one car stops to let another car cross in heavy traffic on 29 in Centreville (a daily occurrence), then a car in the other lane of travel almost hits the car. I've actually seen one t-bone collision because of this. It's just stupid.
These people need to learn to drive down to the next intersection, turn left, turn around, then get back on 29 so they can make A RIGHT off of 29. And pedestrians need to cross at intersections. But I guess that would delay their super important agenda.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please keep us posted on how your next
> conversation with the police goes.
All of these laws deal with pedestrians at intersections. The way I read the original post was the people were not at a cross walk and either way, were waiting to cross. I don't think the intent of the law was to have people slamming on their brakes every time someone was standing at a curb possibly contemplating crossing.
"§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty."
"At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour."
"No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."
If the above driver failed to yeild to pedestrians at a crosswalk, then he was wrong. However, It doesn't sound like they were even in the road. I'd argue that one driver stopping on a busy 4 lane road to encourage a pedestrian to cross is actually creating a much more dangerous situation for the pedestrians.
Imagine you're driving down the street and a car appears to be stopped in the right lane (maybe they spilled their Venti Latte in their lap, or maybe they're switching out their kid's Hannah Montana DVD?) You switch to the left lane to pass the vehicle and suddenly realize there is a family coming out from in front of the stopped vehicle and into your grill because the driver of the parked car let them cross.
I see this same situation all the time where one car stops to let another car cross in heavy traffic on 29 in Centreville (a daily occurrence), then a car in the other lane of travel almost hits the car. I've actually seen one t-bone collision because of this. It's just stupid.
These people need to learn to drive down to the next intersection, turn left, turn around, then get back on 29 so they can make A RIGHT off of 29. And pedestrians need to cross at intersections. But I guess that would delay their super important agenda.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
trogdor!
()
Date: October 24, 2011 07:58AM
Neville Wrote:
> 46.2-858.
>
> A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who
> overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding
> in the same direction at any railroad grade
> crossing or at any intersection of highways unless
> such vehicles are being operated on a highway
> having two or more designated lanes of roadway for
> each direction of travel or unless such
> intersection is designated and marked as a passing
> zone or on a designated one-way street or highway,
> or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass
> in front of either of such vehicles, unless
> permitted so to do by a traffic light or
> law-enforcement officer.
>
> Please keep us posted on how your next
> conversation with the police goes.
BTW, the above wouldn't apply to Centreville Farms because it has 2 lanes of travel in the same direction.
> 46.2-858.
>
> A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who
> overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding
> in the same direction at any railroad grade
> crossing or at any intersection of highways unless
> such vehicles are being operated on a highway
> having two or more designated lanes of roadway for
> each direction of travel or unless such
> intersection is designated and marked as a passing
> zone or on a designated one-way street or highway,
> or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass
> in front of either of such vehicles, unless
> permitted so to do by a traffic light or
> law-enforcement officer.
>
> Please keep us posted on how your next
> conversation with the police goes.
BTW, the above wouldn't apply to Centreville Farms because it has 2 lanes of travel in the same direction.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
tired of it all
()
Date: October 24, 2011 01:50PM
You are not required by law to stop for pedestrians who are waiting to cross the street. You are required to stop for pedestrians who are IN THE CROSSWALK.
At the W & OD likewise, you are not required to stop for bicycles who are waiting because THEY HAVE A STOP SIGN.
Same with golf carts on Soapstone. If they are WAITING, you don't have to stop traffic to let them GO. THEY HAVE A STOP SIGN.
At the W & OD likewise, you are not required to stop for bicycles who are waiting because THEY HAVE A STOP SIGN.
Same with golf carts on Soapstone. If they are WAITING, you don't have to stop traffic to let them GO. THEY HAVE A STOP SIGN.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
WashingTone-Locian
()
Date: October 24, 2011 01:56PM
wnrsm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you see some guy with those stickers on his
> car, don't harass him. He lost his man card and
> is probably on his way to the store to buy tampons
> and White Zinfandel.
LOL!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you see some guy with those stickers on his
> car, don't harass him. He lost his man card and
> is probably on his way to the store to buy tampons
> and White Zinfandel.
LOL!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
eesh
()
Date: October 24, 2011 02:19PM
Minivans are for the poor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they could afford a real car they would. Please
> don't tell me how you love your deluxe minivan
> either. BS.
Minivans today can easily cost over $50k if you get the top trim level and all the options. Plus there is the Mercedes R class for the people that can't be seen in a Toyota or Honda minivan.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they could afford a real car they would. Please
> don't tell me how you love your deluxe minivan
> either. BS.
Minivans today can easily cost over $50k if you get the top trim level and all the options. Plus there is the Mercedes R class for the people that can't be seen in a Toyota or Honda minivan.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
rob
()
Date: October 24, 2011 04:13PM
ha, i always slow down at crosswalks/bath paths. have you seen these fuckers fly by in their bikes without even stopping?
im doing it to Cover my ass from any litigation issues. the best part is lately ive seen these minivan women driving very weird. she was going 20 in a 25, slammed her brakes often (i think she assume there was a magical stop sign when none were there) and then finally just runs a stop sign (the only one that she actually had come upon. I followed and then as she stopped at the school, i pass her and i honked while i yelled "learn to fucking drive bitch"
im doing it to Cover my ass from any litigation issues. the best part is lately ive seen these minivan women driving very weird. she was going 20 in a 25, slammed her brakes often (i think she assume there was a magical stop sign when none were there) and then finally just runs a stop sign (the only one that she actually had come upon. I followed and then as she stopped at the school, i pass her and i honked while i yelled "learn to fucking drive bitch"
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Surviving Driving
()
Date: October 24, 2011 04:40PM
Hey Neville, READ the original post and reread your ordinances. The pedestrians were on the curb, waiting as they should have been, not IN the crosswalk and they were not about to step off of the curb just because Mom Bomb decided to be a good sam (forsaking everyone else on the road as well as the law).
Furthermore, calling the non emergency police number to ask a question concerning an incident will not lead to turning ones self in unless it is a call in as a confession to a crime which would also involve volunteering one's personal info. The woman did not have the right to stop in the road for people waiting on a curb. The officer I spoke with in fact stated that she would have been given a citation for impeding traffic and possibly causing an accident situation, had there been an officer present.
I bet you drive a minivan and make up your own rules too, eh? Please keep us posted as to when you are on the road so we can not be.
Neville Douched:
Surviving Driving,
I hope you call someone else at Fairfax County Police with all the details. You may very well find yourself turning yourself in for Reckless Driving. A specific example of reckless driving is passing a vehicle stopped for pedestrians. Reckless Driving can mean a six month suspension to your license.
By passing the woman's vehicle stopped for pedestrians at a crosswalk (and it sounds like the woman was in the right to do so, since Centerville Farms Road is a 35mph road and drivers are supposed to yield to pedestrians at intersections without signals at that speed or at painted crosswalks without signals at any speed, ref http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924), you may have engaged in reckless driving "in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person." You can find more in both Fairfax County Ordinances (at http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=10051&stateID=46&statename=Virginia in Section 82-4-2. Reckless driving; specific instances) and also in Virginia Code.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-858
46.2-858.
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction at any railroad grade crossing or at any intersection of highways unless such vehicles are being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of travel or unless such intersection is designated and marked as a passing zone or on a designated one-way street or highway, or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer.
Please keep us posted on how your next conversation with the police goes.
Furthermore, calling the non emergency police number to ask a question concerning an incident will not lead to turning ones self in unless it is a call in as a confession to a crime which would also involve volunteering one's personal info. The woman did not have the right to stop in the road for people waiting on a curb. The officer I spoke with in fact stated that she would have been given a citation for impeding traffic and possibly causing an accident situation, had there been an officer present.
I bet you drive a minivan and make up your own rules too, eh? Please keep us posted as to when you are on the road so we can not be.
Neville Douched:
Surviving Driving,
I hope you call someone else at Fairfax County Police with all the details. You may very well find yourself turning yourself in for Reckless Driving. A specific example of reckless driving is passing a vehicle stopped for pedestrians. Reckless Driving can mean a six month suspension to your license.
By passing the woman's vehicle stopped for pedestrians at a crosswalk (and it sounds like the woman was in the right to do so, since Centerville Farms Road is a 35mph road and drivers are supposed to yield to pedestrians at intersections without signals at that speed or at painted crosswalks without signals at any speed, ref http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-924), you may have engaged in reckless driving "in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person." You can find more in both Fairfax County Ordinances (at http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=10051&stateID=46&statename=Virginia in Section 82-4-2. Reckless driving; specific instances) and also in Virginia Code.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-858
46.2-858.
A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction at any railroad grade crossing or at any intersection of highways unless such vehicles are being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of travel or unless such intersection is designated and marked as a passing zone or on a designated one-way street or highway, or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer.
Please keep us posted on how your next conversation with the police goes.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Ha ha ha
()
Date: October 24, 2011 04:54PM
Who would spent 50k on a minivan. What a complete waste of money.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
......
()
Date: October 24, 2011 06:37PM
Not a van fan either Wrote:
FFX's finest comes
> and of course said the damage wasn't worthy of
> writing a report. (BS given it was a new HD.)
Didn't you know that FFX cops have body shop estimating skills?
FFX's finest comes
> and of course said the damage wasn't worthy of
> writing a report. (BS given it was a new HD.)
Didn't you know that FFX cops have body shop estimating skills?
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Yucky84
()
Date: October 24, 2011 06:59PM
I saw a minivan mom this afternoon. She pulled up to the drive through window at the bank, and from where I was standing I got a good look at her. She was so dirty and disheveled: she was wearing a man's gray tshirt, no make up, and her filthy hair was thrown back in a low ponytail,and it was probably not washed in about a week. She only had one older child with her.
Sometimes I wonder that these minivan moms actually get off on looking this way--They think people will look at them and see busy, doting mothers with no time to care for themselves. Obviously that's not what I see, but I won't get into that.
Sometimes I wonder that these minivan moms actually get off on looking this way--They think people will look at them and see busy, doting mothers with no time to care for themselves. Obviously that's not what I see, but I won't get into that.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Doting moms can be good looking too!
()
Date: October 24, 2011 07:17PM
I take pride in my appearance and I love my kids. It takes time but I like being in good shape.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
gangstaa20
()
Date: October 24, 2011 08:14PM
Ha ha ha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who would spent 50k on a minivan. What a complete
> waste of money.
YO spent like 5k on my ride afta tha last payment was made. Now it be straight up gansta.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who would spent 50k on a minivan. What a complete
> waste of money.
YO spent like 5k on my ride afta tha last payment was made. Now it be straight up gansta.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Neville
()
Date: October 25, 2011 12:11AM
Summary:
1. Speed kills. Slow the truck down.
2. Drivers are supposed to yield or stop for pedestrians/bicylists AT crosswalks and trail crossings like on the WO&D. That includes those at the side, waiting to cross. Court opinions matter more than Internet comments and wishful thinking.
3. Virginia Code 46.2-858 is not written in the plainest English, but it still means drivers shouldn't pass other vehicles stopped at crosswalks for pedestrians if there is no traffic light/policeman directing traffic.
1. Speed kills.
Nearly one-third of the people killed on Washington-area roads last year weren't in a car when they were struck: they were walking or biking.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/dc/2011/10/report-pedestrian-bike-deaths-make-greater-share-local-road-deaths
2. Crosswalks and trail crossings
Despite the presence or absence of stop signs for bicycle riders, any pedestrian or bicycle rider has right-of way over vehicular traffic at a crosswalk or trail-crossing crosswalk without a signal. The main reason there are stop signs on trails when they cross intersections is to slow down the bicycle traffic enough to give the car drivers enough safe time to yield to them. The Virginia Code says that drivers shall yield to bicycle riders and pedestrians at crosswalks and at most intersections, unless there is some traffic control device or law enforcement person directing traffic otherwise. At lights, in other words, the bicycle rider/pedestrian has to follow the standard light signals, but the bicycle rider and pedestrian has right of way at all other crosswalks (regardless of traffic speed) and at intersections without signals (if the speed is less than 35 mph).
The law specifically talks about "at" crosswalks, not "in" crosswalks, thus including the area where someone is waiting to cross the road. The MUTCD-based definition of "crosswalk" is brutally dense, but it also can be read to include the section on the side of the road where pedestrians stand as "crosswalk" area. Here is the Virginia Code:
§ 46.2-904. Use of roller skates and skateboards on sidewalks and shared-use paths; operation of bicycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric personal assistive mobility devices on sidewalks and crosswalks and shared-use paths; local ordinances.
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, or an electric powerassisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.
A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:
1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;
2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;
3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.
B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this section, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device.
No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.
The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously.
Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians.
At a crosswalk Virginia courts have held “the pedestrian has a superior right -- that is, the right to cross from one side of the street to the other in preference or priority over vehicles -- and drivers of vehicles must respect this right and yield the right of way to the pedestrian. The pedestrian's right of way extends from one side of the street to the other. It does not begin at any particular point in the intersection nor does it end at any particular point. It begins on one side of the street and extends until the pedestrian has negotiated the crossing.” (Marshall v. Shaw. Supreme Court of Virginia, 1955) ( http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2476417758289562501&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr)
"The duty of a motor vehicle driver on approaching an intersection is to keep a vigilant lookout for pedestrians between curbs on the traveled portion of the highway, and when pedestrians are negotiating the crossing, or about to step from the side into traffic lanes, to operate his car at such speed and under such control that he can readily turn one way or the other, and, if necessary, bring his machine to a stop in time to avoid injury to pedestrians." (Sawyer v. Blankenship, Supreme Court of Virginia, 1933) ( http://va.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19330615_0040113.VA.htm/qx)
None of this, naturally gives the pedestrian/bicyclist the right to jump in front of traffic too close to stop. The police will probably only interview the driver in such a case.
3. Virginia Code 46.2-858
One can certainly argue that Virginia Code 46.2-858 is not the clearest as it is presently written. There are multiple clauses in too little text. Below is a much clearer and longer draft revision of that same legislation, although, please note it did not pass. This draft version would have made it absolutely crystal clear that drivers are expected to handle their vehicles extremely safely around pedestrians, if they didn't know that already from 46.2-924.
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?961+ful+HB689+pdf
308 § 46.2-858. Passing at a railroad grade crossing and certain intersections.
309 A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in
310 the same direction at any railroad grade crossing or at any intersection of highways unless such vehicles
311 are being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of
312 travel or unless such intersection is designated and marked as a passing zone or on a designated
313 one-way street or highway, or while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such
314vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer.
315 When approaching from the rear in the same or an adjacent lane, a person shall be guilty of
316 reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle at any highway intersection while pedestrians
317 are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, or any other vehicle stopped in a
318 roadway at a marked crosswalk or at any stop line in advance of a crosswalk without having
319 determined that it is safe to proceed.
My take is that the meaning of the current version of the law and this expanded draft version of the law are similar and that the relevant pedestrian-related portion of the current 46.2-858 code is: "A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction . . . while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer."
If, on the contrary, one would argue that it is perfectly acceptable and encouraged to pass a vehicle stopped for pedestrians, then implementation of 46.2-924 would be absolutely absurd in multilane roads. If one driver stopped, the cows could come home before the next lane did.
Was the lady in the van in the right to yield or stop for pedestrians? It depends where exactly this occured. If it were in the middle of a block without a crosswalk, then the van driver should not have stopped (except for an emergency like a three-year-old child chasing a ball). Based on the original posting, however, it was presumably an intersection with a crosswalk, but no traffic lights. The road, Centreville Farms, has at least one 35mph speed limit sign visible from Googlemaps streetview. The original poster said: "by stopping in the middle of the road where there is no stop sign, stop light, walk light or anything other than a cross walk that she ... These pedestrians were not in the crosswalk, they were up on the curb." That seems to imply the scene WAS a crosswalk with pedestrians wanting to cross AT the crosswalk. If the location were at a crosswalk, like at the intersection below, then 46.2-924 calls for drivers to yield to pedestrians at the crosswalk (because there was a marked crosswalk and because this was an intersection at a speed less than 35mph).
View Larger Map
1. Speed kills. Slow the truck down.
2. Drivers are supposed to yield or stop for pedestrians/bicylists AT crosswalks and trail crossings like on the WO&D. That includes those at the side, waiting to cross. Court opinions matter more than Internet comments and wishful thinking.
3. Virginia Code 46.2-858 is not written in the plainest English, but it still means drivers shouldn't pass other vehicles stopped at crosswalks for pedestrians if there is no traffic light/policeman directing traffic.
1. Speed kills.
Nearly one-third of the people killed on Washington-area roads last year weren't in a car when they were struck: they were walking or biking.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/dc/2011/10/report-pedestrian-bike-deaths-make-greater-share-local-road-deaths
This graph illustrates the exponential relationshiip between vehicle speed and pedestrian fatalities.
2. Crosswalks and trail crossings
Despite the presence or absence of stop signs for bicycle riders, any pedestrian or bicycle rider has right-of way over vehicular traffic at a crosswalk or trail-crossing crosswalk without a signal. The main reason there are stop signs on trails when they cross intersections is to slow down the bicycle traffic enough to give the car drivers enough safe time to yield to them. The Virginia Code says that drivers shall yield to bicycle riders and pedestrians at crosswalks and at most intersections, unless there is some traffic control device or law enforcement person directing traffic otherwise. At lights, in other words, the bicycle rider/pedestrian has to follow the standard light signals, but the bicycle rider and pedestrian has right of way at all other crosswalks (regardless of traffic speed) and at intersections without signals (if the speed is less than 35 mph).
The law specifically talks about "at" crosswalks, not "in" crosswalks, thus including the area where someone is waiting to cross the road. The MUTCD-based definition of "crosswalk" is brutally dense, but it also can be read to include the section on the side of the road where pedestrians stand as "crosswalk" area. Here is the Virginia Code:
§ 46.2-904. Use of roller skates and skateboards on sidewalks and shared-use paths; operation of bicycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric personal assistive mobility devices on sidewalks and crosswalks and shared-use paths; local ordinances.
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, or an electric powerassisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.
A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:
1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;
2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;
3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.
B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this section, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device.
No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.
The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously.
Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians.
At a crosswalk Virginia courts have held “the pedestrian has a superior right -- that is, the right to cross from one side of the street to the other in preference or priority over vehicles -- and drivers of vehicles must respect this right and yield the right of way to the pedestrian. The pedestrian's right of way extends from one side of the street to the other. It does not begin at any particular point in the intersection nor does it end at any particular point. It begins on one side of the street and extends until the pedestrian has negotiated the crossing.” (Marshall v. Shaw. Supreme Court of Virginia, 1955) ( http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2476417758289562501&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr)
"The duty of a motor vehicle driver on approaching an intersection is to keep a vigilant lookout for pedestrians between curbs on the traveled portion of the highway, and when pedestrians are negotiating the crossing, or about to step from the side into traffic lanes, to operate his car at such speed and under such control that he can readily turn one way or the other, and, if necessary, bring his machine to a stop in time to avoid injury to pedestrians." (Sawyer v. Blankenship, Supreme Court of Virginia, 1933) ( http://va.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19330615_0040113.VA.htm/qx)
None of this, naturally gives the pedestrian/bicyclist the right to jump in front of traffic too close to stop. The police will probably only interview the driver in such a case.
3. Virginia Code 46.2-858
One can certainly argue that Virginia Code 46.2-858 is not the clearest as it is presently written. There are multiple clauses in too little text. Below is a much clearer and longer draft revision of that same legislation, although, please note it did not pass. This draft version would have made it absolutely crystal clear that drivers are expected to handle their vehicles extremely safely around pedestrians, if they didn't know that already from 46.2-924.
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?961+ful+HB689+pdf
308 § 46.2-858. Passing at a railroad grade crossing and certain intersections.
309 A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in
310 the same direction at any railroad grade crossing or at any intersection of highways unless such vehicles
311 are being operated on a highway having two or more designated lanes of roadway for each direction of
312 travel or unless such intersection is designated and marked as a passing zone or on a designated
313 one-way street or highway
314
315 When approaching from the rear in the same or an adjacent lane, a person shall be guilty of
316 reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle at any highway intersection while pedestrians
317 are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, or any other vehicle stopped in a
318 roadway at a marked crosswalk or at any stop line in advance of a crosswalk without having
319 determined that it is safe to proceed.
My take is that the meaning of the current version of the law and this expanded draft version of the law are similar and that the relevant pedestrian-related portion of the current 46.2-858 code is: "A person shall be guilty of reckless driving who overtakes or passes any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction . . . while pedestrians are passing or about to pass in front of either of such vehicles, unless permitted so to do by a traffic light or law-enforcement officer."
If, on the contrary, one would argue that it is perfectly acceptable and encouraged to pass a vehicle stopped for pedestrians, then implementation of 46.2-924 would be absolutely absurd in multilane roads. If one driver stopped, the cows could come home before the next lane did.
Was the lady in the van in the right to yield or stop for pedestrians? It depends where exactly this occured. If it were in the middle of a block without a crosswalk, then the van driver should not have stopped (except for an emergency like a three-year-old child chasing a ball). Based on the original posting, however, it was presumably an intersection with a crosswalk, but no traffic lights. The road, Centreville Farms, has at least one 35mph speed limit sign visible from Googlemaps streetview. The original poster said: "by stopping in the middle of the road where there is no stop sign, stop light, walk light or anything other than a cross walk that she ... These pedestrians were not in the crosswalk, they were up on the curb." That seems to imply the scene WAS a crosswalk with pedestrians wanting to cross AT the crosswalk. If the location were at a crosswalk, like at the intersection below, then 46.2-924 calls for drivers to yield to pedestrians at the crosswalk (because there was a marked crosswalk and because this was an intersection at a speed less than 35mph).
View Larger Map
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Gloria H. Olelocle
()
Date: October 25, 2011 01:55AM
What is truly fucking idiotic is the enormous number of hierarchically hamstrung retards driving huge SUV's and offroad vehicles that never go off road and are basically grocery-getting-machines on steroids.
As for the minivans themselves, the whole thing is a ridiculous. Ohhhh you have kidds nowwwww, better get a minivan!!! MORONS falling for a marketing ploy. Families used to be LARGER. People used to buy SEDANS for the family and dog. Explain to me how a family of 5 (3 kids) in 1990 was fine with a 4 door but now in 2011 that is automatic minivan territory. Does your 1.2 brat pack really need a 5 foot long 3-seat bench for each sprog? Each kiddie car seat is really 40 inches wide?
I'm convinced that used minivans attract large traditional Indian families like buzzards to a meatwagon . . . don't believe me? place an ad on Craigslist for one, I guarantee you'll be smellin' curry flavored silks in a hot minute.
As for the minivans themselves, the whole thing is a ridiculous. Ohhhh you have kidds nowwwww, better get a minivan!!! MORONS falling for a marketing ploy. Families used to be LARGER. People used to buy SEDANS for the family and dog. Explain to me how a family of 5 (3 kids) in 1990 was fine with a 4 door but now in 2011 that is automatic minivan territory. Does your 1.2 brat pack really need a 5 foot long 3-seat bench for each sprog? Each kiddie car seat is really 40 inches wide?
I'm convinced that used minivans attract large traditional Indian families like buzzards to a meatwagon . . . don't believe me? place an ad on Craigslist for one, I guarantee you'll be smellin' curry flavored silks in a hot minute.
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Kilton
()
Date: October 25, 2011 06:22AM
Gloria H. Olelocle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is truly fucking idiotic is the enormous
> number of hierarchically hamstrung retards driving
> huge SUV's and offroad vehicles that never go off
> road and are basically grocery-getting-machines on
> steroids.
What are you talking about? Big SUVs and trucks are very manly and cool. Even if you only go off road once every few years, you're still more manly for driving one.
Don't you ever look inside these vehicles to see who's driving? More manly "men" you won't find anywhere. :-)
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is truly fucking idiotic is the enormous
> number of hierarchically hamstrung retards driving
> huge SUV's and offroad vehicles that never go off
> road and are basically grocery-getting-machines on
> steroids.
What are you talking about? Big SUVs and trucks are very manly and cool. Even if you only go off road once every few years, you're still more manly for driving one.
Don't you ever look inside these vehicles to see who's driving? More manly "men" you won't find anywhere. :-)
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
Aggrvated Drvr
()
Date: October 25, 2011 10:29AM
Worse still are the foreigner minivan driver. Let alone they are the worse even in smaller vehicles but now they have a much bigger assualt vehicle. Their lack of driving skills scares the living shit out me. Example driving back home saturday night around 7pm on old keene mill. There is this minivan who is all over the road no concept of staying in lane. I figure yep soccer mom talking on cell phone or messing with their kids in back. I give the mini all kinds of room since I figure this will not go well. All the sudden the guy behind roars around me only to get caught behind the minivan. He back off and does the same as me gives room then we get to light of 4 lane intersection and I kid you not she puts on her right blinker as if turning into Kmart parking lot...figures and immediately jerks her wheel wildly left swerving into the far left lane causing me and the other car to jam brakes to complete standstill and swerve back over 4 lanes of traffic to get to turn right into the parking lot. I pulled up to other driver and when we got a glimpse of who was driving a foreign women with kids... He just looked at me and we both said yep figures and both said be safe and drove on. Seriously I avoid minivans anywhere on the roade and to make matters worse my sister's husband decided to buy her a minivan for the family.LOLOLOLOL
Re: Minivan Moms Make Up Their Own Rules?
Posted by:
NOVAman
()
Date: October 25, 2011 05:11PM
Aggrvated Drvr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Worse still are the foreigner minivan driver. Let
> alone they are the worse even in smaller vehicles
> but now they have a much bigger assualt vehicle.
> Their lack of driving skills scares the living
> shit out me. Example driving back home saturday
> night around 7pm on old keene mill. There is this
> minivan who is all over the road no concept of
> staying in lane. I figure yep soccer mom talking
> on cell phone or messing with their kids in back.
> I give the mini all kinds of room since I figure
> this will not go well. All the sudden the guy
> behind roars around me only to get caught behind
> the minivan. He back off and does the same as me
> gives room then we get to light of 4 lane
> intersection and I kid you not she puts on her
> right blinker as if turning into Kmart parking
> lot...figures and immediately jerks her wheel
> wildly left swerving into the far left lane
> causing me and the other car to jam brakes to
> complete standstill and swerve back over 4 lanes
> of traffic to get to turn right into the parking
> lot. I pulled up to other driver and when we got a
> glimpse of who was driving a foreign women with
> kids... He just looked at me and we both said yep
> figures and both said be safe and drove on.
> Seriously I avoid minivans anywhere on the roade
> and to make matters worse my sister's husband
> decided to buy her a minivan for the
> family.LOLOLOLOL
+1
Honda Odysseys are the worst. Always driving slow as hell in the left lane on 95 and the parkway, then give me "I didn't know you were there" look as I blow by them doing the speed limit.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Worse still are the foreigner minivan driver. Let
> alone they are the worse even in smaller vehicles
> but now they have a much bigger assualt vehicle.
> Their lack of driving skills scares the living
> shit out me. Example driving back home saturday
> night around 7pm on old keene mill. There is this
> minivan who is all over the road no concept of
> staying in lane. I figure yep soccer mom talking
> on cell phone or messing with their kids in back.
> I give the mini all kinds of room since I figure
> this will not go well. All the sudden the guy
> behind roars around me only to get caught behind
> the minivan. He back off and does the same as me
> gives room then we get to light of 4 lane
> intersection and I kid you not she puts on her
> right blinker as if turning into Kmart parking
> lot...figures and immediately jerks her wheel
> wildly left swerving into the far left lane
> causing me and the other car to jam brakes to
> complete standstill and swerve back over 4 lanes
> of traffic to get to turn right into the parking
> lot. I pulled up to other driver and when we got a
> glimpse of who was driving a foreign women with
> kids... He just looked at me and we both said yep
> figures and both said be safe and drove on.
> Seriously I avoid minivans anywhere on the roade
> and to make matters worse my sister's husband
> decided to buy her a minivan for the
> family.LOLOLOLOL
+1
Honda Odysseys are the worst. Always driving slow as hell in the left lane on 95 and the parkway, then give me "I didn't know you were there" look as I blow by them doing the speed limit.