http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=92651

So, the deal's been closed for about a month now, and I'm sort of curious how something so large has kept such a low profile. Construction on these new HOT lanes is set to begin this year, with tolls coming in about 2 years. While it's an innovative approach to managing traffic congestion, I'm pretty suspicious of the whole thing. First, offering an 80 year lease on such an important piece of infrastructure just doesn't seem like prudent business practice. Eight decades is an awful long time for most folks- should we really be negotiating deals that alot of people's grandchildren won't even be around for? That alone sounds like it could be a major disaster.

The article also mentions that the tolls will be 5-6 bucks. One [major] caveat: they could turn out to be 3 to 4 times higher. Anyone want to bet that they won't be anywhere close to 5 bucks by the time this road opens?

But, the most interesting line buried in this article has got to be this:

"The lack of public scrutiny is just part of making it work. You cannot negotiate such a contract with a microphone in the room."

Just what the heck have we gotten ourselves into here?

Do the laws of price elasticity exist with HOT lanes? If so, I would think that the operator would make sure that the tolls were set high enough to maximize revenue while being low enough to generate usage. I am not a heavy Beltway user, but would gladly pay $15-20 for the occasional time that I need to get from Springfield to Rockville on a Friday afternoon.

This is Virginia-only (for now), correct?

$15-20? Are you crazy? You would actually be OK shelling out 20 bucks to avoid congestion that shouldn't even exist in the first place? Peoples' perception of what's "acceptable" as it pertains to our poorly-planned road system has officially gotten absurd.

Lester- correct, this is VA only (for now). I don't use the beltway much either, but I could see myself whipping out a 20 on occassion if I didn't feel like wasting an hour in traffic.

HOWEVER, I think Edgar's comment really hits the mark. This whole thing sounds like one 80 year long bandage. A gigantic bandage that was admittedly done with little public scrutiny.

Edgar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $15-20? Are you crazy? You would actually be OK
> shelling out 20 bucks to avoid congestion that
> shouldn't even exist in the first place? Peoples'
> perception of what's "acceptable" as it pertains
> to our poorly-planned road system has officially
> gotten absurd.


Daily? No, but the alternative is sitting in traffic for 1-2 hours chewing through gas. Time is money and if I can get in an additional client call then it is worth it. Not sure that I could expense this, but I would certainly try.

i would pay $20 only if there was major congestion AND the lanes were a mandatory MINIMUM of 100MPH. why pay out the ass if you are just going to get stuck behind some soccer mom going 50MPH?! it wont happen considering 80+MPH is considered reckless (which is complete bullshit).


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Pardon my cynicism, but it looks like an albatross in the works to me.
I can understand why some would be willing to pay the toll in order to
make more $$$$. (I have a friend who is a food wholesaler that averages
about 500 miles per week on his car) I for one, as a retiree, have no need
or desire to pay any additional tolls. Everyday bureaucrats on the way to
work arent going to ride the HOT lanes either. Even if this "fantasy rate"
of $5 holds water thats $25 per week and $100 per month on top of the
price of gas. Then there's parking downtown. I'd have to get a part-time
job just to pay commuting expenses. IMHO this is just another "gouge" for
the luxury of a faster ride for some and a means for politicians to grease
the palms of themselves and their friends. If this project is successful however, look for a toll booth on every major roadway in NoVa. The best way to relieve traffic congestion is to take a million illegals in the area off the roads.

The Beltway is an INTERSTATE hwy and therefore is supposed to be paid for entirely by state and federal taxes! NOT TOLLS! Why should we have to pay a toll for something we're already paying for. It's your right, as an American taxpayer, to drive on whatever lane of an I-highway you want.

Folks, we pay taxes to create and maintain the infrastructure (roads, highways, schools,etc) and for the defense of the country. Everything else is frivolous and more often than not, a waste of tax money.

This toll is literally "Highway Robbery" and people should be absolutely enraged over this. Besides, if you really believe paying your $15 toll will save you from the traffic, your as stupid as the people who support this project.

The Pennsylvania Turnpike is also known as I-76 for the majority of it's length and I can assure you that tolls are collected on this road.

The HOT lanes are being built by private developer essentially on right-of-way adjacent to the existing Beltway lanes. I could see your point if they were charging a fee for all lanes, but this is not the case. No one is forcing you to use the HOT lanes, so how does it affect you?

Just curious...do you oppose "express" security lanes at the airport for premium (first/business class) flyers? What about the registered traveler program? If I am wiling to pay an annual fee and submit to a background investigation, why shouldn't I have the opportunity to bypass the infrequent flyer who does not understand what it means to remove all liquids from your carry-on?

Lester,
The whole point of these HOT lanes is to ease traffic due to a failing, overloaded infrastructure which we all saw coming years ago. This is not private industries problem to solve. It's the Federal and State governments problem.

I have a big problem with private businesses having to or wanting to build any main roadways.There is no reason for them to ever have to, with the amount of available tax income the state and feds already take in for this very purpose.

You mentioned i-76 in your post. Do YOU think it was a good idea to build a toll road there instead of using your taxes? How many times over has that road been paid for now? That goes for all the other bogus toll roads up that way. Someones making a shitload of money.

So we pay sales tax when we buy the car, property tax to own the car, gas tax to drive the care, registration tax to drive the car, income tax for roads to drive the car on and now we might as well throw in $15 more a week so we don't have to sit in traffic as much in the car.

It all makes perfect cents!

no no no no you can onlu utilize those lanes if you are certified HOT, a MILF or generally bangable. If you get pulled over and cant wow the officer you are fined and sent to fugly prison.

There's another story in the local news today, this time about the I-95 HOT lanes. How's this for an eye-opener?

They estimate that the HOT lane toll will be 50 bucks from Massaponax to the 14th St. Bridge. Fifty bucks. That's craziness.
But if you're lucky enough to commute in from Springfield, it'll only cost ya $14.

While it may not be a project destined for failure, it's sure reaching for new heights of absurdity.

Edgar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $15-20? Are you crazy? You would actually be OK
> shelling out 20 bucks to avoid congestion that
> shouldn't even exist in the first place? Peoples'
> perception of what's "acceptable" as it pertains
> to our poorly-planned road system has officially
> gotten absurd.




Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Beltway is an INTERSTATE hwy and therefore is
> supposed to be paid for entirely by state and
> federal taxes! NOT TOLLS! Why should we have to
> pay a toll for something we're already paying for.
> It's your right, as an American taxpayer, to drive
> on whatever lane of an I-highway you want.
>
> Folks, we pay taxes to create and maintain the
> infrastructure (roads, highways, schools,etc) and
> for the defense of the country. Everything else is
> frivolous and more often than not, a waste of tax
> money.
>
> This toll is literally "Highway Robbery" and
> people should be absolutely enraged over this.
> Besides, if you really believe paying your $15
> toll will save you from the traffic, your as
> stupid as the people who support this project.

Both you guys are on point.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no no no no you can onlu utilize those lanes if
> you are certified HOT, a MILF or generally
> bangable. If you get pulled over and cant wow the
> officer you are fined and sent to fugly prison.


Dude that isn't even funny. If I heard you say that in person, I'd definitely be in your face. You are such a toolbag.

Edgar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $15-20? Are you crazy? You would actually be OK
> shelling out 20 bucks to avoid congestion that
> shouldn't even exist in the first place? Peoples'
> perception of what's "acceptable" as it pertains
> to our poorly-planned road system has officially
> gotten absurd.


___________________________________________________________________

I agree with that!

Out of control!



...if this causes more problems, I would have to consider buying another motorcycle to excercise my RIGHT to use those lanes - for FREE!

A new article in today's Post about this HOT lanes fiasco... they're basically trying to decide where they're going to fit all these cars once the toll lanes end. Which is sort of amusing, because what it really means is that there is a real good possibilty that folks will pay 25 bucks, only to be stuck sitting in a massive bottleneck. Now I'm sure they've known about these problems all along, but since they've done such a remarkable job at keeping this mess as low-key as possible, it hasn't really been reported until now (i.e. months after the deal was brokered). Think getting across the Legion bridge is bad now? Just wait until there's a whole new highway full of cars that needs to get across it! There's also an interesting comment about how they want to avoid dumping all of traffic onto 123 in Tysons- by adding 3 new exits. They don't offer any details, but it sure must be one heck of a plan if they think they can solve our traffic woes by trying to cram more cars into Tysons.

I was suspicious of this idea from the start, and even more now. Instead of improving traffic, they're just making it more expensive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022402169.html

Truth to be told, there is nothing you can really do to improve truffic in the area, UNLESS you cut into private property, and expand existing roads.

Not gonna happen....heh

Traffic is one of those things people complain about, but they complain about things that would solve it even more (i.e. building roads.)

I am thinking the HOT lanes are a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm not sure even 1% of drivers are willing to pay $50 to go from DC to Fredericksburg. $5-$10, maybe. I can see people getting annoyed at having to merge on the Legion or Wilson Bridges whilst paying for the privilege.

The 80 year lease seems to overly favor corporate interests, as well.

The poster who said that removing illegals would solve our traffic ills seems to think the illegals would go back, quietly, to Mexico or their country of origin. Why, the forced migration of 1 million people is something we can do over a few weekends in September.

Just another example of a huge cash cow concocted in esoteric meetings that will do nothing except put money in investors pockets and worsen Tyson's traffic and the bridge bottleneck situation.

The article also quotes VDOT official, who says that they will really need to build a bigger Legion bridge. Which means that taxpayers will be footin' the bill so that a company can charge somebody $25 bucks to avoid traffic that shouldn't exist in the first place.

If you haven't noticed, a lot of people in DC/NOVA make a lot of dough so if you think these lanes aren't going to be piled up with BMW's, and Benz's during rush our your crazy. $15 bucks /per day extra is chump change for most people.

do you really think that people who drive BMWs and Benz's care about traffic?

You think they work 9-5 hours? LOL

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was suspicious of this idea from the start, and
> even more now. Instead of improving traffic,
> they're just making it more expensive.

i for one would like to kick the asses of our new overlords.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I have an idea! How about we build the inter county connector, I-266, and the 2 outer beltways. http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/wiki/Outer_Beltway

Oh and also prohibit Loudoun county from using any other roads besides those ones to get to DC.

The Beltway HOT lanes aren't as bad since they're adding new lanes.

The ones they're going to do on I-95/395 are a complete boondoggle since they're not actually adding lanes but just re-painting existing HOV lanes and adding tollbooths.

One of the things that never gets reported about the HOV-to-HOT conversion is that right now, outside of posted HOV hours, anyone can drive on the HOV lanes. But once they're HOT lanes, it will be tolled 24/7, not just at rush hours. Which means people trying to get out of town on Saturday or come home Sunday will have to either pay a toll or crawl along the main-lanes.