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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 14, 2008 02:25PM
LOUDOUN COUNTY
Juvenile Standing At Issue in DWI Case
Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
By Bill Brubaker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 12, 2008; Page B02
A 17-year-old Fairfax County girl charged in a drunken-driving crash in September that killed a 59-year-old Leesburg woman engaged in "binge drinking" and should be tried as an adult, a prosecutor said yesterday.
An attorney for the girl, who is charged with aggravated involuntary manslaughter, argued that the felony case should remain in juvenile court because his client is immature, has no criminal record and has demonstrated remorse.
The 45-minute hearing before Loudoun County Circuit Court Judge Thomas D. Horne came in response to a juvenile court judge's decision in November that the teenager's case would be heard in juvenile court. Loudoun Commonwealth's Attorney James E. Plowman appealed that decision, saying in an interview at the time that the girl "took another human being's life through her own criminally negligent behavior."
The victim, Kathleen Becker, was returning from choir practice at Christ the Redeemer Roman Catholic Church in Sterling to her home in Leesburg, where she lived with her husband and disabled teenage son.
Authorities said the girl had been drinking at a party and a football game before her Ford Escape sport-utility vehicle struck Becker's car on a two-lane stretch of Route 15 near Leesburg. Becker, who was wearing a seat belt, died instantly. The girl, who was not wearing a seat belt, suffered cuts and bruises.
The girl had a blood alcohol level of .17, well above the .08 limit under Virginia law, according to court records. The Washington Post generally does not publish the names of defendants tried as juveniles.
In a courtroom filled with several dozen of the defendant's classmates and relatives, Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Adriana Eberle said the girl, a senior at Westfield High School in Chantilly at the time of the crash, engaged in "adult behavior" that night. "Nobody forced alcohol down her throat," she said.
If tried as an adult, she faces one to 20 years in prison. At the hearing, defense attorney Peter D. Greenspun noted that his client is "physically small," before posing the question, "How would she do in an adult incarceration setting?"
At first, his client was charged by Virginia State Police with driving under the influence, a misdemeanor. But after Plowman's office was consulted, she was charged with a felony.
Plowman petitioned the juvenile court to transfer the case to Circuit Court. Juvenile court judge Pamela L. Brooks ruled that the case should remain in juvenile court, a decision that Plowman appealed.
Under Virginia law, judges must weigh certain factors in deciding whether a juvenile case should be moved to an adult court. The factors include the defendant's age and school record, mental and emotional maturity, the seriousness of the charges, prior contact with the juvenile justice system and whether the alleged offense was committed in an aggressive or premeditated manner.
Those factors were at the heart of a debate between the prosecutor and defense attorney. Greenspun said his client has no criminal record and is a good student who was a "young and relatively inexperienced drinker." He said she was "removed" from Westfield High by the Fairfax school system after she was charged and is studying in a county "outreach" program.
Eberle said the girl has a "high degree of maturity" and comes from a "good family," adding: "Her mother is not a drug addict. Her father is not a drug addict. She has no excuse for what she did."
Greenspun said the girl, who turned 17 less than three weeks before the crash, "is not almost 18" and should not, therefore, be treated as an adult.
Eberle said the girl will probably be 18 when she is sentenced. "The defendant was not 13 years old when she committed this offense," she said.
Last summer, Greenspun represented another Fairfax girl, also 17, who was charged with involuntary manslaughter after a high-speed crash on the George Washington Memorial Parkway killed one of her passengers and seriously injured two others. That case, tried in Arlington County Circuit Court, resulted in a one-year jail sentence for Saadet Muslu, now 18.
The Loudoun defendant could face a stiffer sentence because her involuntary manslaughter charge was "aggravated."
Susan Cleveland, president of the Loudoun chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said the punishment will not be sufficient if she is tried as a juvenile. "The sentence will be much greater if she is tried as an adult," she said. Becker's family "really wants a message sent that these kids should . . . have consequences and they just can't drink and drive," she said.
Juvenile Standing At Issue in DWI Case
Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
By Bill Brubaker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 12, 2008; Page B02
A 17-year-old Fairfax County girl charged in a drunken-driving crash in September that killed a 59-year-old Leesburg woman engaged in "binge drinking" and should be tried as an adult, a prosecutor said yesterday.
An attorney for the girl, who is charged with aggravated involuntary manslaughter, argued that the felony case should remain in juvenile court because his client is immature, has no criminal record and has demonstrated remorse.
The 45-minute hearing before Loudoun County Circuit Court Judge Thomas D. Horne came in response to a juvenile court judge's decision in November that the teenager's case would be heard in juvenile court. Loudoun Commonwealth's Attorney James E. Plowman appealed that decision, saying in an interview at the time that the girl "took another human being's life through her own criminally negligent behavior."
The victim, Kathleen Becker, was returning from choir practice at Christ the Redeemer Roman Catholic Church in Sterling to her home in Leesburg, where she lived with her husband and disabled teenage son.
Authorities said the girl had been drinking at a party and a football game before her Ford Escape sport-utility vehicle struck Becker's car on a two-lane stretch of Route 15 near Leesburg. Becker, who was wearing a seat belt, died instantly. The girl, who was not wearing a seat belt, suffered cuts and bruises.
The girl had a blood alcohol level of .17, well above the .08 limit under Virginia law, according to court records. The Washington Post generally does not publish the names of defendants tried as juveniles.
In a courtroom filled with several dozen of the defendant's classmates and relatives, Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Adriana Eberle said the girl, a senior at Westfield High School in Chantilly at the time of the crash, engaged in "adult behavior" that night. "Nobody forced alcohol down her throat," she said.
If tried as an adult, she faces one to 20 years in prison. At the hearing, defense attorney Peter D. Greenspun noted that his client is "physically small," before posing the question, "How would she do in an adult incarceration setting?"
At first, his client was charged by Virginia State Police with driving under the influence, a misdemeanor. But after Plowman's office was consulted, she was charged with a felony.
Plowman petitioned the juvenile court to transfer the case to Circuit Court. Juvenile court judge Pamela L. Brooks ruled that the case should remain in juvenile court, a decision that Plowman appealed.
Under Virginia law, judges must weigh certain factors in deciding whether a juvenile case should be moved to an adult court. The factors include the defendant's age and school record, mental and emotional maturity, the seriousness of the charges, prior contact with the juvenile justice system and whether the alleged offense was committed in an aggressive or premeditated manner.
Those factors were at the heart of a debate between the prosecutor and defense attorney. Greenspun said his client has no criminal record and is a good student who was a "young and relatively inexperienced drinker." He said she was "removed" from Westfield High by the Fairfax school system after she was charged and is studying in a county "outreach" program.
Eberle said the girl has a "high degree of maturity" and comes from a "good family," adding: "Her mother is not a drug addict. Her father is not a drug addict. She has no excuse for what she did."
Greenspun said the girl, who turned 17 less than three weeks before the crash, "is not almost 18" and should not, therefore, be treated as an adult.
Eberle said the girl will probably be 18 when she is sentenced. "The defendant was not 13 years old when she committed this offense," she said.
Last summer, Greenspun represented another Fairfax girl, also 17, who was charged with involuntary manslaughter after a high-speed crash on the George Washington Memorial Parkway killed one of her passengers and seriously injured two others. That case, tried in Arlington County Circuit Court, resulted in a one-year jail sentence for Saadet Muslu, now 18.
The Loudoun defendant could face a stiffer sentence because her involuntary manslaughter charge was "aggravated."
Susan Cleveland, president of the Loudoun chapter of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, said the punishment will not be sufficient if she is tried as a juvenile. "The sentence will be much greater if she is tried as an adult," she said. Becker's family "really wants a message sent that these kids should . . . have consequences and they just can't drink and drive," she said.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Lillibit
()
Date: January 14, 2008 02:38PM
A friend of mine went on Sat to the hearing and said the judge requested some time to look over the arguments as he had only received them that morning and hadn't had sufficient time to read them.
She said the defendent looked like she was about twelve. And ironically, the fact that she didn't have on a seat belt supposedly saved her life. Coincidentally, I have also met defense attorney Greenspun a few times and he has a reputation of being really, really good at what he does.
I hope whoever posted this also posts the decision when it comes in.
She said the defendent looked like she was about twelve. And ironically, the fact that she didn't have on a seat belt supposedly saved her life. Coincidentally, I have also met defense attorney Greenspun a few times and he has a reputation of being really, really good at what he does.
I hope whoever posted this also posts the decision when it comes in.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
still703
()
Date: January 14, 2008 02:46PM
Try that girl as an adult. If she was such a smart student and from a "good family" like the Post article says, then she should've known better to get drunk and attempt to drive.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Lillibit
()
Date: January 14, 2008 02:54PM
Yeah, I can't figure out whether my friend went because she thinks she should or shouldn't be tried as an adult. Have to ask her that. Apparently, the girl left one of the football games at Westfield by herself and crossed the center line on Rt 15 and hit the deceased head-on.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 14, 2008 03:12PM
She looked about 12? I am sure this "look" before the judge was no "accident."
Concerning your need for information on this case, consider getting a subscription to the Washington Post instead of relying on Fairfax underground feeding you your news and information.
Not a sermon, just a thought
Concerning your need for information on this case, consider getting a subscription to the Washington Post instead of relying on Fairfax underground feeding you your news and information.
Not a sermon, just a thought
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Lillibit
()
Date: January 14, 2008 03:17PM
I'm too lazy and I can't talk on the phone where I'm at.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
still703
()
Date: January 14, 2008 04:01PM
I wonder how the girl was able to survive without wearing a seat belt??
Unless she wasn't going fast enough to break the windsheild and do a superman out of the car.
Unless she wasn't going fast enough to break the windsheild and do a superman out of the car.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
wow
()
Date: January 14, 2008 04:28PM
if you want to drink and fuck around like an adult...get trialled as one...
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
4wheeler
()
Date: January 14, 2008 04:29PM
"An attorney for the girl, who is charged with aggravated involuntary manslaughter, argued that the felony case should remain in juvenile court because his client is immature, has no criminal record and has demonstrated remorse"
Right, at 17 she didn't know any better...fuck that.... she tought she was old enough to drink, she tought she was old enough (and competent enough) to drive a vehicle while drunk out of her ass, I think she is old enough to be in court as an adult. Oh shit, I'm sorry, it was not her fault...peer pressure or maybe video games made her do it.
Right, at 17 she didn't know any better...fuck that.... she tought she was old enough to drink, she tought she was old enough (and competent enough) to drive a vehicle while drunk out of her ass, I think she is old enough to be in court as an adult. Oh shit, I'm sorry, it was not her fault...peer pressure or maybe video games made her do it.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
still703
()
Date: January 14, 2008 04:38PM
wow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you want to drink and fuck around like an
> adult...get trialled as one...
I just LOL'd when I read this post. 'Trialled'...that's a new one!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2008 04:38PM by still703.
Attachments:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you want to drink and fuck around like an
> adult...get trialled as one...
I just LOL'd when I read this post. 'Trialled'...that's a new one!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2008 04:38PM by still703.
Attachments:
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
The Economist
()
Date: January 14, 2008 04:45PM
hey guys I think we are forgetting something. The reason why we have a juvenile justice system in this country is because we as society understand that kids make mistakes. When you go around charging them as adults, that defeats the whole purpose of having a juvenile system to begin with.
You can't hold minors to the same standards. They cannot vote, serve in the military, buy booze, cigarettes or gamble. You can't try them as an adult.
Some might say if she was old enough to drink and drive she's old enough to be tried as an adult, I say no. We ought to raise the driving age to 18 then.
I mean, how many of us made juvenile mistakes?
You can't hold minors to the same standards. They cannot vote, serve in the military, buy booze, cigarettes or gamble. You can't try them as an adult.
Some might say if she was old enough to drink and drive she's old enough to be tried as an adult, I say no. We ought to raise the driving age to 18 then.
I mean, how many of us made juvenile mistakes?
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
C'mon
()
Date: January 14, 2008 04:50PM
The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey guys I think we are forgetting something. The
> reason why we have a juvenile justice system in
> this country is because we as society understand
> that kids make mistakes. When you go around
> charging them as adults, that defeats the whole
> purpose of having a juvenile system to begin with.
>
>
> You can't hold minors to the same standards. They
> cannot vote, serve in the military, buy booze,
> cigarettes or gamble. You can't try them as an
> adult.
>
> Some might say if she was old enough to drink and
> drive she's old enough to be tried as an adult, I
> say no. We ought to raise the driving age to 18
> then.
>
> I mean, how many of us made juvenile mistakes?
I made juvenile mistakes, mine, however, did not result with a mother or wife laying on a slab in the morgue. Did yours? There are also differences in monors. Minors at 12 are different than minors at 16 and 17.
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey guys I think we are forgetting something. The
> reason why we have a juvenile justice system in
> this country is because we as society understand
> that kids make mistakes. When you go around
> charging them as adults, that defeats the whole
> purpose of having a juvenile system to begin with.
>
>
> You can't hold minors to the same standards. They
> cannot vote, serve in the military, buy booze,
> cigarettes or gamble. You can't try them as an
> adult.
>
> Some might say if she was old enough to drink and
> drive she's old enough to be tried as an adult, I
> say no. We ought to raise the driving age to 18
> then.
>
> I mean, how many of us made juvenile mistakes?
I made juvenile mistakes, mine, however, did not result with a mother or wife laying on a slab in the morgue. Did yours? There are also differences in monors. Minors at 12 are different than minors at 16 and 17.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
The Economist
()
Date: January 14, 2008 05:02PM
The moment you say there's a difference between 12 and 17 is the moment you can turn around and say there's a difference between 11 and 16, 10 and 15, and so on.
Don't forget that people mature at many different rates. Some kids have full grown beards by age 14 , while others go without until age 18 or later. Same goes for kids mentalities.
Don't forget that people mature at many different rates. Some kids have full grown beards by age 14 , while others go without until age 18 or later. Same goes for kids mentalities.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
C'mon
()
Date: January 14, 2008 05:08PM
Simple questions to be answered:
Did the defendant know the actions she was committing were wrong?
Did she appreciate the fact that loss of life was a possibility?
IF the answers are "yes," she should be treated as an adult.
Did the defendant know the actions she was committing were wrong?
Did she appreciate the fact that loss of life was a possibility?
IF the answers are "yes," she should be treated as an adult.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
The Economist
()
Date: January 14, 2008 05:22PM
Hey C'mon, if any kid answers those questions as yes, then you should treat them like an adult right? How about the right to vote/gamble/consume alcohol?
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: January 14, 2008 06:51PM
I agree. Lower all those ages and we will have less people in debt due to betting, less people in drunk driving crashes, and less George Bushes being elected.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Gravis' mother
()
Date: January 14, 2008 06:58PM
If the prosecution can prosecute a 17 year old girl as an adult due to "engaging in "adult behavior" that night", then I think, all the people that get arrested on the show Dateline To Catch a Predator, should have their cases dismissed as well.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
idiots
()
Date: January 14, 2008 07:02PM
to catch a predator? have cases dismissed? are u a moron? yes you are now shut up...
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 14, 2008 07:51PM
Look, she is white; try her as a minor so she can go to college, party, and get laid. Perhaps she can feed the homeless on Thanksgiving or something as punishment. If she were Black, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Membership has its privileges.
Membership has its privileges.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 14, 2008 08:14PM
Also, if the First lady of this country can kill a person with her car and get away with it, why shouldn't this girl?
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Gravis' mother
()
Date: January 14, 2008 08:53PM
idiots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> to catch a predator? have cases dismissed? are u a
> moron? yes you are now shut up...
You are the idiot. You hypocrite. Laws can only be fair/just if they are consistent.
If an underage girl can be declared an adult for committing a crime. Then an underage girl should also be declared an adult when she is a victim of crime. You can't smear the divider between minor/adult on one side and not on the other.
Obviously, I'm not arguing for sex criminals to go free when they are prosecuted for having sex with a 17 year old. I'm only arguing that to do one thing on one side, opens doors for doing the same on the other side of things.
I would rather a firm/hard line be drawn and adhered to when declaring a minor a minor, and an adult an adult. No smudging the line for any reason.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander, You punk shitface.
-------------------------------------------------------
> to catch a predator? have cases dismissed? are u a
> moron? yes you are now shut up...
You are the idiot. You hypocrite. Laws can only be fair/just if they are consistent.
If an underage girl can be declared an adult for committing a crime. Then an underage girl should also be declared an adult when she is a victim of crime. You can't smear the divider between minor/adult on one side and not on the other.
Obviously, I'm not arguing for sex criminals to go free when they are prosecuted for having sex with a 17 year old. I'm only arguing that to do one thing on one side, opens doors for doing the same on the other side of things.
I would rather a firm/hard line be drawn and adhered to when declaring a minor a minor, and an adult an adult. No smudging the line for any reason.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander, You punk shitface.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Gravis
()
Date: January 14, 2008 10:09PM
everything about this story screams irony. xD
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FTP
()
Date: January 14, 2008 10:29PM
You think the youth of America were or would have been responsible for George Bush as president? No. If the voting age was 16, George Bush wouldnt have stood a chance and this country wouldnt be in the pickle it is today. im not an advocate either for lowering the voting age or gambling age, but if someone is responsible enough to lay down their lives for their country, they are responsible enough to choose to drink alcohol.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Steve K
()
Date: January 15, 2008 12:41AM
She should be charged as an adult; and shame on who ever thinks otherwise. This girl is 17, not 12; she knew what she was doing. All this no record coming from a good family crap, shes just another over privilleged kid. Not only did she drink after a Chantilly-Westfield game, the fool drove. After years of being told not too, you learn that when your like in 6th grade. I'm sorry the girl made a stupid decision she should pay. So if your 18 and shoot someone your an adult and if your 17 and 6 monthes your a kid give me a damn break.
Then on top of this, does anyone realize the lady killed had a mentally challenged son and she was the primary care giver. Now they have no one to take care of him and its put a strain on the whole family.
So you ignorant asses who think she should be charged as a child give me a break, she drank that was an adult thing, she drove that was an adult thing, she should pay as an adult.
Then on top of this, does anyone realize the lady killed had a mentally challenged son and she was the primary care giver. Now they have no one to take care of him and its put a strain on the whole family.
So you ignorant asses who think she should be charged as a child give me a break, she drank that was an adult thing, she drove that was an adult thing, she should pay as an adult.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 15, 2008 07:18AM
Steve K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She should be charged as an adult; and shame on
> who ever thinks otherwise. This girl is 17, not
> 12; she knew what she was doing. All this no
> record coming from a good family crap, shes just
> another over privilleged kid. Not only did she
> drink after a Chantilly-Westfield game, the fool
> drove. After years of being told not too, you
> learn that when your like in 6th grade. I'm sorry
> the girl made a stupid decision she should pay.
> So if your 18 and shoot someone your an adult and
> if your 17 and 6 monthes your a kid give me a damn
> break.
> Then on top of this, does anyone realize the lady
> killed had a mentally challenged son and she was
> the primary care giver. Now they have no one to
> take care of him and its put a strain on the whole
> family.
> So you ignorant asses who think she should be
> charged as a child give me a break, she drank that
> was an adult thing, she drove that was an adult
> thing, she should pay as an adult.
So, you are saying being cute and White doesn't factor into you opinion that she should be treated as an adult?
Are you a gay Democrat panzy or what?
Pehaps she was following in the footsteps of her hero Laura Bush who also accidentally killed a person with her car? Are you dissing the beloved First Lady of the United States? I an seriously thinking of moving back to Texas, you people in Virginia just don't get it.
-------------------------------------------------------
> She should be charged as an adult; and shame on
> who ever thinks otherwise. This girl is 17, not
> 12; she knew what she was doing. All this no
> record coming from a good family crap, shes just
> another over privilleged kid. Not only did she
> drink after a Chantilly-Westfield game, the fool
> drove. After years of being told not too, you
> learn that when your like in 6th grade. I'm sorry
> the girl made a stupid decision she should pay.
> So if your 18 and shoot someone your an adult and
> if your 17 and 6 monthes your a kid give me a damn
> break.
> Then on top of this, does anyone realize the lady
> killed had a mentally challenged son and she was
> the primary care giver. Now they have no one to
> take care of him and its put a strain on the whole
> family.
> So you ignorant asses who think she should be
> charged as a child give me a break, she drank that
> was an adult thing, she drove that was an adult
> thing, she should pay as an adult.
So, you are saying being cute and White doesn't factor into you opinion that she should be treated as an adult?
Are you a gay Democrat panzy or what?
Pehaps she was following in the footsteps of her hero Laura Bush who also accidentally killed a person with her car? Are you dissing the beloved First Lady of the United States? I an seriously thinking of moving back to Texas, you people in Virginia just don't get it.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
fundastupid
()
Date: January 15, 2008 11:00AM
GO BACK TO TEXAS THEN YOU STUPID COWBOY...
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 15, 2008 12:24PM
fundastupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GO BACK TO TEXAS THEN YOU STUPID COWBOY...
Too many Mexicans in Texas. I wish they would all just go home.
-------------------------------------------------------
> GO BACK TO TEXAS THEN YOU STUPID COWBOY...
Too many Mexicans in Texas. I wish they would all just go home.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
pmn
()
Date: January 16, 2008 06:00AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/15/AR2008011502931.html
Case Stays in Juvenile Court
Teen Is Charged In Fatal Crash
Case Stays in Juvenile Court
Teen Is Charged In Fatal Crash
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Lillibit
()
Date: January 16, 2008 07:18AM
Thanks pmn.
I though Greenspun's argument sounded hokey but now that we know the 10 criteria the judge was going on...it makes sense.
Sounds like she'll get a slap on the wrist and go on with her life in a couple of years.
I though Greenspun's argument sounded hokey but now that we know the 10 criteria the judge was going on...it makes sense.
Sounds like she'll get a slap on the wrist and go on with her life in a couple of years.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Radiophile
()
Date: January 16, 2008 08:23AM
FUNdamental Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look, she is white; try her as a minor so she can
> go to college, party, and get laid. Perhaps she
> can feed the homeless on Thanksgiving or something
> as punishment. If she were Black, we wouldn't be
> having this conversation.
>
> Membership has its privileges.
The article said:
As the teenager looked on somberly, wearing a black dress, pink sweater and black flats, Greenspun called her "a young and relatively inexperienced drinker." He described her as "physically small" and asked, "How would she do in an adult incarceration setting?"
Wow, different words, but the same thought pattern as FUNdamental...
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look, she is white; try her as a minor so she can
> go to college, party, and get laid. Perhaps she
> can feed the homeless on Thanksgiving or something
> as punishment. If she were Black, we wouldn't be
> having this conversation.
>
> Membership has its privileges.
The article said:
As the teenager looked on somberly, wearing a black dress, pink sweater and black flats, Greenspun called her "a young and relatively inexperienced drinker." He described her as "physically small" and asked, "How would she do in an adult incarceration setting?"
Wow, different words, but the same thought pattern as FUNdamental...
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: January 16, 2008 07:05PM
Lillibit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She said the defendent looked like she was about
> twelve. And ironically, the fact that she didn't
> have on a seat belt supposedly saved her life.
> Coincidentally, I have also met defense attorney
> Greenspun a few times and he has a reputation of
> being really, really good at what he does.
Being small= higher BAC than normal. She probably had about 2 drinks. Whereas if yo' mama had the same amount of alcohol, her BAC would be a .02, which it will also be if you have recently used Listerine.
-------------------------------------------------------
> She said the defendent looked like she was about
> twelve. And ironically, the fact that she didn't
> have on a seat belt supposedly saved her life.
> Coincidentally, I have also met defense attorney
> Greenspun a few times and he has a reputation of
> being really, really good at what he does.
Being small= higher BAC than normal. She probably had about 2 drinks. Whereas if yo' mama had the same amount of alcohol, her BAC would be a .02, which it will also be if you have recently used Listerine.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Lillibit
()
Date: January 16, 2008 07:38PM
My mama frickin mixes her vodka with Listerine. She's recently taken to Vodka/Tampico and she don't blow no .02. She'd set that thing on fire!
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Taormina
()
Date: January 16, 2008 08:50PM
Lillibit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks pmn.
>
> I though Greenspun's argument sounded hokey but
> now that we know the 10 criteria the judge was
> going on...it makes sense.
>
> Sounds like she'll get a slap on the wrist and go
> on with her life in a couple of years.
Reluctantly, I agree with the 10 criteria and seriously hope that she learns SOMETHING over the next 12-18 months. My guess is that she is going to learn alot about the civil court process, depositions and judgments which will help her understand why her family can only buy older used cars and is living in a rented townhouse. Even though the women she killed was not a primary wage earner I see a pretty good sized financial award which will likely exceed any insurance coverage they have.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks pmn.
>
> I though Greenspun's argument sounded hokey but
> now that we know the 10 criteria the judge was
> going on...it makes sense.
>
> Sounds like she'll get a slap on the wrist and go
> on with her life in a couple of years.
Reluctantly, I agree with the 10 criteria and seriously hope that she learns SOMETHING over the next 12-18 months. My guess is that she is going to learn alot about the civil court process, depositions and judgments which will help her understand why her family can only buy older used cars and is living in a rented townhouse. Even though the women she killed was not a primary wage earner I see a pretty good sized financial award which will likely exceed any insurance coverage they have.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
FUNdamental
()
Date: January 21, 2008 11:04AM
Since she will not be charged as an adult, does this mean the victim's family can sue her parents because they are responcible for her because she was "legally" a juvinile?
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
coffin
()
Date: January 21, 2008 01:28PM
Since, most likely the car was in her parents' names, and they are the ones with siezable assets...you can bet your ass mom and dad will be defendants in the lawsuit.
Re: Prosecution Wants Teen Tried as Adult
Posted by:
Steve K
()
Date: January 21, 2008 01:31PM
Yes they can sue. I'd recommend it too, with such a tradgic event the family deserves some money. And if the law lets this girl, who knew better get off so easily; make her family pay who obviously didn't do a good job raising her.
No one deserves to lose their mother because a 17 year old was stupid and drank and drove. It is absolutey stupid, shes not being charged as an adult, she knew what she did was wrong; and lets be honest people in high school its nailed in to you, you don't drink and drive, they know it just as well as college kids who would be charged as adults, and I don't see a difference here. I hope the family who lost this woman gets lots of money for their pain.
No one deserves to lose their mother because a 17 year old was stupid and drank and drove. It is absolutey stupid, shes not being charged as an adult, she knew what she did was wrong; and lets be honest people in high school its nailed in to you, you don't drink and drive, they know it just as well as college kids who would be charged as adults, and I don't see a difference here. I hope the family who lost this woman gets lots of money for their pain.