Hello and welcome to a modest experiment in democracy!

I am starting this thread to allow people from throughout the West County area (and perhaps beyond) to engage in a civil discussion about our schools.

My interest is in facilitating a discussion where people from every part of our area and with varying points of view can speak openly about their needs and interests and encounter a friendly and respectful audience.

If we manage to inventory needs throughout the community, we may be able to advance ideas which better address everyone's needs and interests and defuse the incendiary arguments which have accompanied the FCPS boundary study.

While we can refer to what has come before, I would encourage participants to think openly and creatively as we consider solutions. It is my firm belief that we can choose our own fate and that public authorities are ultimately accountable to the people they serve. Therefore, I would encourage everyone to stay positive in this forum.

The only intolerance on this thread will be for intolerance itself.

I look forward to exchanging ideas with you in the days ahead!

Well, I just managed to inventory your over-articulate thirst for civil discussion and came to the conclusion that you must be a ton of fun at parties. -§

I agree with §

If you're looking to discuss the public school situation, there's already a hundred and fifty fuckin pages of it in the "high school redistricting" thread.

My thoughts are schools receive too much money and ask for too many new bonds. The teachers are lazy and whining and hate the SOL's because it holds them accountable. The admin staff could be cut by half and never be missed.
Does that about sum it up?

§ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I just managed to inventory your
> over-articulate thirst for civil discussion and
> came to the conclusion that you must be a ton of
> fun at parties. -§


How did you come up with your artist formerly known as Prince-like user name? Slightly OT, but I'm thinking it's time I changed mine.

> How did you come up with your artist formerly known as Prince-like user name?

§ = Section Mark

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with §
>
> If you're looking to discuss the public school
> situation, there's already a hundred and fifty
> fuckin pages of it in the "high school
> redistricting" thread.


I concur and would add that this is at least the fourth or fifth topic related to the redistricting and the state of FCPS. If the pattern holds it will quickly devolve into a pissing contest, threats, ad hominem attacks, hyperbole and a general lack of agreement on much of anything.

I realize that FU is a public forum, but would all of you be better served by agreeing to meet at a local Starbucks or restaurant where you can share your opinions in person? This is an easy way to share comments and concerns, but are you really accomplishing anything with this approach?

Meeper - I am already involved in meetings all over the place on almost a daily basis and the redistricting battle is definitely far from over. What is missing is an open and hopeful discussion between those in the South Lakes area favoring redistricting and those in Fox Mill and Floris who generally oppose it. The process has driven people apart who are just walking distance from one another, shop at the same stores, enjoy the same parks, go to the same movies, listen to the same music and share many common goals for the education of our children. But I believe it is our choice how this comes out. And the more we battle one another or waste energy and time on insults, the less time we have to build a plan that is truly representational. If this forum can't attract people who want a positive outcome then I'll move it to another venue. But if you and the others that took the time to visit this thread don't mind, I'm going to give it a day first. During that time, feel free to weigh in on your own needs or interests as a stakeholder in the debate.

Dear Fox Mill Dad,

I think the SL PTSA is working on arranging a way to bring families of your area into the school to meet with South Lakes parents and younger parents in the pyramid. Nothing has been scheduled yet, but I do know it is being discussed. I think that would be a great start. Did you attend the meeting Monday at Fox Mill with Ken Plum and another State Representative? I understand that it was a very productive meeting for many of the Fox Mill and Reston parents who attended. South Lakes parents were able to correct some misconceptions about the school, and FM parents were able to talk about their wishes and concerns.

Great idea! I would love to see what South Lakes people are willing to offer to bring in the new families. What will they support for the new families? How will they help make them feel that their needs and wants are being heard?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Fox Mill Dad,
>
> I think the SL PTSA is working on arranging a way
> to bring families of your area into the school to
> meet with South Lakes parents and younger parents
> in the pyramid. Nothing has been scheduled yet,
> but I do know it is being discussed. I think that
> would be a great start. Did you attend the
> meeting Monday at Fox Mill with Ken Plum and
> another State Representative? I understand that
> it was a very productive meeting for many of the
> Fox Mill and Reston parents who attended. South
> Lakes parents were able to correct some
> misconceptions about the school, and FM parents
> were able to talk about their wishes and concerns.

We're beyond misconceptions. You need to have something to offer the new people or they aren't going to go to South Lakes. It has to be something more than a tour of the school and a presentation about how many kids go to UVA, how nice everyone is, how much everyone loves IB and Bruce Butler.

Everyone already knows all those things. You are asking for Fox Mill and Floris families to make a HUGE sacrifice. What sacrifices are the South Lakes people willing to make? Any compromises that you can offer to help meet the wants and needs of the FM and Floris parents? A PR cheerleading meeting at the school just isn't going to be enough. Everyone's been to those shows before. They're rather meaningless to most.

Everyone, you've all been at this longer than I have, but I must say that this is not quite what I was hoping might happen...

I was at the meeting on Monday. (My second such meeting of the day!) And it was helpful first baby step for those who engaged in some personal dialogue afterward. But we need much more.

It is very good of South Lakes administration and the PTSA to reach out in that manner to all new matriculating students and their families. But that only works for those who are considering sending their children there.

I am opposed to the boundary plan. Not because of South Lakes, but because of the process. I do not accept the idea that the school board has this authority. I am a big believer in the democratic process, and this ain't it.

My hope for our little modest discussion here is that we can state NOT what we DON'T want, BUT what we DO want.

For example, at the Fox Mill meeting, some of the people from South Lakes stated specifically that they needed more courses. Courses were cancelled because there were not enough students. That was apparently because of FCPS rules regarding a minimum number of students required to qualify for faculty placement. This was a revelation for me. Before I heard this, I couldn't understand why a small school environment--especially with such a large course catalogue--was disadvantageous for its students. But courses that must be cancelled aren't of much use to their students. However, moving a whole bunch of families to the school isn't the only answer. One simple solution is changing the faculty/student ratio rules for South Lakes. That is ONLY one suggestion. But it didn't take more than a two hour meeting for that idea to surface.

We need to have a discussion not in order to convince one another of what we believe but rather to inventory everyone's real needs and then address them.

If you all are interested in this approach, may I ask you to please take a fresh look, forget the boundary study and its aftermath for a moment, figure out what you want from your (respective schools), and give voice to it. Then let's figure out how to get it...working together!

Every school has cancellations of courses because not enough students sign up. BUT, at an IB school, IB classes cannot be cancelled. That's an advantage over AP. One year at Madison, there was no AP computer science, not enough students had signed up. All of the smaller high schools have this problem.

I agree that changing the staffing ratio at South Lakes is an excellent idea. If they had many options for small classes that might even attract more out of boundary students. There are many ways to make SL more attractive to out of boundary students, but none have been tried. They jumped on the boundary change without exploring any other alternatives. I can't begin to explain the thinking of our school board when they chose a boundary change before exhausting all other possibilities and without consulting the community first.

I would suggest that South Lakes commit to a minimum number of AP courses and that those courses be chosen by the South Lakes community, not the staff or Principal.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
> Meeper - I am already involved in meetings all over the place on almost a daily basis and the redistricting battle is definitely far from over.

I suggest you go start a discussion group on something like Yahoo or Google. That way you can moderate the forum to exclude the unregistered trolls and rabblerousers that shout the same non-constructive opinions over and over. Trying to find solidarity or a sense of community on this board is like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles. You'll have a much better shot at fostering a serious discussion on site where you can manage the topics and moderate the threads. I don't live, work, or hang out in western FFX, in fact I don't know where places like Westfields or South Lakes even are, so I have nothing else to add.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suggest you go start a discussion group on
> something like Yahoo or Google. That way you can
> moderate the forum to exclude the unregistered
> trolls and rabblerousers that shout the same
> non-constructive opinions over and over. Trying
> to find solidarity or a sense of community on this
> board is like trying to find a needle in a stack
> of needles. You'll have a much better shot at
> fostering a serious discussion on site where you
> can manage the topics and moderate the threads.

Concur...it seems like Neen and others spend a lot of time getting into pissing contests with people who simply like to stir the pot. As the The Meeper correctly points out, there are much better online forums than this which provide a better overall structure, threaded comments, and moderation.

This is not a panacea, but when a topic hits 500 comments (let alone 7000+) in a single stream it is hard to make sense of what is really being said.

Neen, Thank you for the concrete suggestion regarding the offer of more AP classes and your constructive comment on faculty-student ratio modification to enable students already at South Lakes to enjoy a greater diversity of curricular choice.

Meeper, Thank you for the suggestion of moving to Yahoo or Google or another moderated forum. To start this off, I thought it best to start here in order to reach out to many more people on all end of this debate. If there are enough interested parties, I'll definitely find a home for the discussion.

Any other comments on needs or interests and suggestions for new, innovative and victimless ways to address them?

Burnham, While this is not a moderated forum, I'm sure you can see I'm taking great pains to be positive and welcoming to all who want to contribute specific comments about new approaches in a respectful way. While some of those who post here may have made comments which which you did not agree in other forums, I'm trying to give this a fresh start. Would you be interested in making a contribution? I am trying to solicit specific comments on the needs of the Western County schools and their communities so we can work collectively to build a new plan which addresses EVERYONE's interests.

Meeper, I thought it best to start here in order to reach out to many more people on all end of this debate.

No problem, I'll gladly tell others where your new discussion site is once it gets up and running. I seriously think a well-moderated forum could actually accomplish some of the work you are trying to do.

Best of luck in your endeavours. May your high school boundaries remain steadfast from now until eternity.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a big believer in the democratic
> process, and this ain't it.
>
Welcome to Fairfax County....

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Burnham, While this is not a moderated forum, I'm
> sure you can see I'm taking great pains to be
> positive and welcoming to all who want to
> contribute specific comments about new approaches
> in a respectful way. While some of those who post
> here may have made comments which which you did
> not agree in other forums, I'm trying to give this
> a fresh start. Would you be interested in making
> a contribution? I am trying to solicit specific
> comments on the needs of the Western County
> schools and their communities so we can work
> collectively to build a new plan which addresses
> EVERYONE's interests.

Are you interested in addressing the current study or future studies?

Again, I am a future SL parent (Hunters Woods) and support option 5. This process has not been managed properly, and I would have liked more options (Langley and Madison) or a magnet. I have no loyaties to IB or AP, so I am open to either or a combination.

It has also been disappointing how SL seemed to be a target immediately and in general people went to fighting instead of working together. Those opposed can make their case without putting down a school that is actually starting to improve.

Foxmilldad, you live in fox mill and you're not accustomed to cheapshit and cheapshot local politics? That place is crawling with trash that epitomize those ideals.

I made a yahoo group so feel free to post. I don't work for FCPS and am neutral on this process except in areas of fiscal responsibility, operational efficiency, academic effectiveness, respecting the spirit and letter of the law.

Threads are important since they will enable the discussions to be more focussed. Please do not repost entire messages in replies.

novaschoolsfairfax@yahoo.com

Meeper and novaschoolsfairfax, Thank you for the suggestions on the site. My hope is that many of those with passions on Fairfax Underground also still have an interest in coming up with a positive solution for all. I'm going to try and get a few more contributing participants before trying to move.

Hootribe, I am after something entirely new which benefits all. I can't imagine coming up with a suitable solution without a robust conversation where everyone states their specific needs first. Rather than telling us which school board option you support, would you be willing to share your needs?

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hootribe, I am after something entirely new which
> benefits all. I can't imagine coming up with a
> suitable solution without a robust conversation
> where everyone states their specific needs first.
> Rather than telling us which school board option
> you support, would you be willing to share your
> needs?


Sure - simply put: I want my children to have access to the full range of classes, programs, and activities that other kids in western Fairfax do.

Hootribe, Thank you. More specifically, which courses, programs and activities are desired at South Lakes and why are each, respectively, not currently offered?

I am interested in this, but what is your objective in terms of this effort's product. Would we ante this up to someone? If so, who? and when? Isn't this kind of too late? What change would come? Many have put in an incredible amount of effort in the other stinking process. I know, I don't want to invest anything more into something that was nice to do but gets shelved because it's not timely, or no one really cares, or citizens don't make a difference, or so forth and so on. Folks outside of South Lakes are a bit angry that they put forth tremondous amount of input, energy and effort just to be, what most consider, ignored. How do you re-spark this crowd? Just curious.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hootribe, Thank you. More specifically, which
> courses, programs and activities are desired at
> South Lakes and why are each, respectively, not
> currently offered?


The courses can (depending on the year) include the following:

- language (combining multiple years of a language in the same class)
- upper level math options
- Business electives (ex. finance and economics)
- Pre-engineering
- Astronomy and Aerospace

My kids are GT, and I want to make sure they will have a full range of options in the future. I can't speak to what is offered this year, but if they continue to provide funds based on the number of students, it is obvious that this will be an ongoing problem, including electives that other parents may be interested in (ex. drawing) that I am not.

There also aren't enough teachers to sponsor the programs - go ask the SL admin and you will find some teachers having to do double and triple duty with regards to programs and clubs.

I would also point to the whole experience at a school - teams, clubs, and bands that do not have enough kids are not the same experience.

Florian, My belief is that we should figure out what we all need and want, develop a plan for getting it and then lobby for it until we get it. What particular lobbying methods we will use will depend upon the plan. Since I for one do not accept that the school board has authority over the people, my goal is to work with others to develop ideas which are truly representative and then to make the government adopt them.

Why would you send your kids to Chantilly instead of South Lakes? Do you want your kids around poedophiles or something? I just don't get it. Is being around minorities worse than being around poedophile teachers? I guess for some people it is.

Hootribe, Thank you. It is becoming much more clear. I attended a small private high school (500 students) that had a 7-to-1 faculty-student ratio and we had lots of curricular opportunities, extracurricular activities, etc. That clearly isn't happening at South Lakes. Is the impediment to offering these courses the lack of faculty or cancellation of courses when they don't meet a minimum number of students? Also, what is this about funds for GT being predicated on the number of students? Are they not offering South Lakes sufficient funding to operate the GT program?

SL Supporter, I think you are posting to the wrong board. Try the redistricting board. Thanks.

so, you are intolerant of my views?

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello and welcome to a modest experiment in
> democracy!

i vote for you to shut the fuck up. isnt democracy great?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
>
> i vote for you to shut the fuck up. isnt
> democracy great?

I will second Gravis's motion - motion carried - please go away!

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hootribe, Thank you. It is becoming much more
> clear. I attended a small private high school
> (500 students) that had a 7-to-1 faculty-student
> ratio and we had lots of curricular opportunities,
> extracurricular activities, etc. That clearly
> isn't happening at South Lakes. Is the impediment
> to offering these courses the lack of faculty or
> cancellation of courses when they don't meet a
> minimum number of students? Also, what is this
> about funds for GT being predicated on the number
> of students? Are they not offering South Lakes
> sufficient funding to operate the GT program?


To clrarify, my kids are not at SL yet - they are in the GT program within the SL pyramid of schools. My knowledge of SL is from taking an interest in advance - visiting the school, meeting with the principle, going to SL events.

The offerings issue comes from a combination of things:
- # teachers tied to the # students
- scheduling issues with either the number of teachers available or the number of students who sign up for a particular class.

A lot of the problems would be address if they provided the teachers/programs regardless of the number of students - then maybe we would have the great ratio like when you grew up. This, unfortunately, won't happen.

I guess I don't know what you hope to accomplish. I believe it is too late for this study. I think it would be better to provdie feedback so the next study (for whatever location) would be managed better for all concerned.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello and welcome to a modest experiment in
> democracy!

I guess it is a democracy only for those who agree with you any dissention and you are kiked out of this "modest experiment in democracy." Maybe you should look up the word democracy, because this clearly isn't one.

> I am starting this thread to allow people from
> throughout the West County area (and perhaps
> beyond) to engage in a civil discussion about our
> schools.

I suppose civil is defined as 100% agreement with Fox Mill Dad.

> My interest is in facilitating a discussion where
> people from every part of our area and with
> varying points of view can speak openly about
> their needs and interests and encounter a friendly
> and respectful audience.

I need and am interested in schools where the teachers aren't poedophiles. Excuse me if this is offensive to you. I may be open minded, but I am not open minded enough to allow teachers around my kids to be poedophiles. Sorry if you are.

> If we manage to inventory needs throughout the
> community, we may be able to advance ideas which
> better address everyone's needs and interests and
> defuse the incendiary arguments which have
> accompanied the FCPS boundary study.

Agreed, and I think the need to have no poedophiles in the school system is paramount.

> While we can refer to what has come before, I
> would encourage participants to think openly and
> creatively as we consider solutions. It is my
> firm belief that we can choose our own fate and
> that public authorities are ultimately accountable
> to the people they serve. Therefore, I would
> encourage everyone to stay positive in this
> forum.
>
> The only intolerance on this thread will be for
> intolerance itself.

Actually, you are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with you. True, I may be intolerant of poedophiles, but I think that is justifiable. Don't you?

> I look forward to exchanging ideas with you in the
> days ahead!

No, you look forward to being a board Nazi and telling people how to think.

Civil discussion? We aint got no learnin' hyear. We rather cuss and bark at
the moon. Ya got any whiskey?

HooTribe, Thanks very much. The student/faculty ratio issue may be at the core of some of the problems and the inequities. I don't believe South Lakes is the smallest high school in the County. I wonder if the other schools suffer the same problems and, if so, why we can't pressue the County for a solution, perhaps a lower ratio to qualify for an offering plus more teachers.

Tia2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> >
> > i vote for you to shut the fuck up. isnt
> > democracy great?
>
> I will second Gravis's motion - motion carried -
> please go away!



Just in case it was missed - Go to the 154 page thread and stop this one!

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HooTribe, Thanks very much. The student/faculty
> ratio issue may be at the core of some of the
> problems and the inequities. I don't believe
> South Lakes is the smallest high school in the
> County. I wonder if the other schools suffer the
> same problems and, if so, why we can't pressue the
> County for a solution, perhaps a lower ratio to
> qualify for an offering plus more teachers.


The ratio is at the core of the problem, but it would cost $'s to adjust it. SL is the third smallest, so there are other schools with this issue. Another factor is that a higher % within a small school may be students with special requiremetns - this only further impacts the number of students available for general and advanced education.

With regards to this study - it wasn't handled well (management and communications),groups immediately divided (pro and con), and alternative solutions were never explored.

There are teams of people exploring alternative options. I'll check in with some of them to find out if anyone is reviewing the cost benefit of making an adjustment to the student faculty ratio county-wide. (This may have come up in the boundary discussions in other parts of the county prior.) What about the "higher % within a small school with special requirements"? What kind of special requirements?

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are teams of people exploring alternative
> options. I'll check in with some of them to find
> out if anyone is reviewing the cost benefit of
> making an adjustment to the student faculty ratio
> county-wide. (This may have come up in the
> boundary discussions in other parts of the county
> prior.) What about the "higher % within a small
> school with special requirements"? What kind of
> special requirements?


Special Education - it would be interesting to see how many students (out of an already low number) are part of a special education program. If there are 100 - 150 students, the total number of students available for some classes is actually that much lower.

ESOL - depending on the student, some courses may not be a viable option. Again, this lowers the number of potential students to sign up for a class (ex. advanced english course).

Fox Mill Dad and HooTribe(as in wahoo?):

South Lakes houses an Mildly to Severely Mentally Retarded magnet that pulls in around 150 students from surrounding districts. We also have a significant ESOL population, so our general ed program really houses 1200 or less students. I believe that we have the smallest general ed population in the County. The problem is with the Master schedule. If Johnny wants to take class A, but it conflicts with class B, and there are no other sections of class A, it limits his options. It is also true that if not enough kids sign up, then classes are not opened. Sometimes the only way to provide advanced chemistry is to let those kids have independent study during a regular chem class. Obviously, that does not well serve those students, especially when it comes time to take the AP/IB test.

The issues of clubs and extracurriculars is also a big one, as are limited parent resources and budgets for the boosters. When booster budgets are small, it becomes difficult to offer scholarships for low-income students who want to participate but don't have the means. Of course, the school will provide the instrument and uniform, but those students may only participate in band trips if they receive scholarships, which impact the ability to provide for the students whose families do pay in, and that in turn limits resources for the program. It is very disheartening to arrive at a Band competition in a rented ramshackle truck and see other schools owning their own custom-painted trucks, carts and other heavy equipment.

I hope this helps.

SLVerity and HooTribe, This is very valuable information. Thank you. Sounds like we've got several issues at play. First, the general ed population is low and there is some barrier (FCPS or the school?) to offering classes to small numbers of students. Second, there are at least two populations with distinct needs--the developmentally impaired and ESOL--and theoretically distinct costs associated with their support and education. Third, we have an issue with the Master Schedule and limitations is poses on general ed students trying to take full advantage of the curriculum. Fourth, we have a problem of funding for extracurricular activities and school sponsored clubs. I'm glad these are being clearly delineated; it makes them a bit easier to address. In the absence of an influx of general ed students from a more affluent part of the community, what could a school in this position demand from the school board or do for itself to address each of these issues? In other words, what kind of help is really required and who is best able to provide it?

removed comment...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 03:32PM by Margie.

Of course you are aware that most high schools have some kind of special needs center in their school. Madison has an ED center, Woodson has a center for deaf students. South Lakes is not unique with their MMR center.

Margie wrote:

All the redistricting people should follow FoxMillDad to a new discussion site (far,far away from here)and take thier hundred and fifty pages of the "high school redistricting" thread with them.
If you are not listed on the arrest list,then you really do not belong here.
_________________________

Actually, Margie makes a good point. Margie started this forum for those who needed help getting bail, cheap legal advice or where to score an easy drug deal.

Birdlover,
Good to have you back! We've missed your wit and humor!

Neen,

Thanks. Few, though, would share your sentiment.

Yet, my father, a photo journalist (they don't exist any longer) used to say.... honey, if they don't like you, you're probably doing a good job.

Never quite understood that, but never forgot it.

SLVerity: yes, Hoo as in UVA - Tribe is for W&M (double dipper of the state school system).

FoxMillDad: I know you are against the boundary change, but will your kids come to SL or will you make other plans? I wish you well whichever way you decide.

HooTribe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity: yes, Hoo as in UVA - Tribe is for W&M
> (double dipper of the state school system).
>
> FoxMillDad: I know you are against the boundary
> change, but will your kids come to SL or will you
> make other plans? I wish you well whichever way
> you decide.

Well, WahooWa to you. College 1980.

Are there anyone from SLH answering this?

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity and HooTribe, This is very valuable
> information. Thank you. Sounds like we've got
> several issues at play. First, the general ed
> population is low and there is some barrier (FCPS
> or the school?) to offering classes to small
> numbers of students. Second, there are at least
> two populations with distinct needs--the
> developmentally impaired and ESOL--and
> theoretically distinct costs associated with their
> support and education. Third, we have an issue
> with the Master Schedule and limitations is poses
> on general ed students trying to take full
> advantage of the curriculum. Fourth, we have a
> problem of funding for extracurricular activities
> and school sponsored clubs. I'm glad these are
> being clearly delineated; it makes them a bit
> easier to address. In the absence of an influx of
> general ed students from a more affluent part of
> the community, what could a school in this
> position demand from the school board or do for
> itself to address each of these issues? In other
> words, what kind of help is really required and
> who is best able to provide it?

This is a great idea.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are there anyone from SLH answering this?
>
> FoxMillDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity and HooTribe, This is very valuable
> > information. Thank you. Sounds like we've got
> > several issues at play. First, the general ed
> > population is low and there is some barrier
> (FCPS
> > or the school?) to offering classes to small
> > numbers of students. Second, there are at
> least
> > two populations with distinct needs--the
> > developmentally impaired and ESOL--and
> > theoretically distinct costs associated with
> their
> > support and education. Third, we have an issue
> > with the Master Schedule and limitations is
> poses
> > on general ed students trying to take full
> > advantage of the curriculum. Fourth, we have a
> > problem of funding for extracurricular
> activities
> > and school sponsored clubs. I'm glad these are
> > being clearly delineated; it makes them a bit
> > easier to address. In the absence of an influx
> of
> > general ed students from a more affluent part
> of
> > the community, what could a school in this
> > position demand from the school board or do for
> > itself to address each of these issues? In
> other
> > words, what kind of help is really required and
> > who is best able to provide it?


Floris,

First of all, being "from SLH" can mean different things. I am a future SL parent, and therefore am somewhat of an outsider - I don't know the PTA, current parents, etc. I have, however, spent my own time looking into the school.

As I have stated before, my original hope was for either students from Langley/Madison or a strong magnet program. Neither were ever on the table for discussion. It is hard to address the issues above (ex. scheduling, course availability) without more students/teachers/funding. Given the current budget issues, I don't see them adjusting the student/teacher ratio for the school.

I do think that the combination of the principle, renovation (helpful in recruiting teachers), and additional students, this school will be strong going forward, Ironically, I think that is what bothers some people - that SL will become a success story.

Hoo Tribe,
Lacking of students is one of the symptoms, but not the cause of the challenges. Maybe I didn't ask the right question, I'd like to see a discussion outside of the mindset of RD, as FoxMill Dad is trying to find a win-win solution for everyone. Make sense? Do you agree RD is not the only solution in the world to help SLH?

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hoo Tribe,
> Lacking of students is one of the symptoms, but
> not the cause of the challenges. Maybe I didn't
> ask the right question, I'd like to see a
> discussion outside of the mindset of RD, as
> FoxMill Dad is trying to find a win-win solution
> for everyone. Make sense? Do you agree RD is not
> the only solution in the world to help SLH?

Floris,

Yes, I agree in the sense that they are all pieces of a puzzle. Some of the pieces, like improved admin and facilities are now in place - these will help (directly and indirectly) with future results. Another aspect is parent participation. This also seems to clearly be on the rise from what I have researched. Is RD the only solution - no. I do get concerned, however, when someone starts from a position of no RD, then tries to back into how to prove it whithout addressing the real resource concerns. Same as you are concerned from the other side: when the assumption for RD has been made, without looking into other options.

Floris, Thank you very much for joining the discussion. Looks like the other list is becoming more thoughtful again too. Perhaps everyone is starting to think the same thing: better to work together towards better schools for all than go through constant redistricting battles.

HooTribe, you asked if my kids will go to SL or if I have other plans. Our one child is in elementary school so this is in the distant future for us. We would make our decision purely on what was the best educational opportunity and best curricular fit and would move or send our child to the chosen school wherever it might happen to be. If we had to make the choice today, it would be between my private high school in Michigan (if interested in the arts), TJ (if admitted) and Oakton (because we are in the pyramid and its scores are very high). We wouldn't want to send him to South Lakes at this time given its current performance. But that could change. After all, we moved here from Montgomery County after researching elementary schools all around the country. We chose Fox Mill because it was the best fit for us: high performance, language immersion, ethnic diversity. We are very fortunate to be in the position to make that kind of choice. Most people aren't. That's one reason I would like to get beyond the infighting, uncover and understand the core issues and work with others to address them. I also don't like the idea of any insitution, government or otherwise, acting as if they know better than the people what is in their own best interest. That's why I started posting here. Sorry for the long answer.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I also don't like the
> idea of any insitution, government or otherwise,
> acting as if they know better than the people what
> is in their own best interest.

Isn't it the same government institution that created Fox Mill Elem.? If you choose to attend public schools, you are buying into that system - for better or worse.

FoxMillDad Wrote,

Well said. We picked Hunters Woods for the magnet program and it has the GT center as well for our kids. We are still a ways off for high school, but I have also decided to get involved now. I want SL to be the best school possible - that way my kids will have the choice between a good local school or TJ if they qualify.

Let me know what you come up with.

Fox Mill Dad, I urge you to look at the performance of your children's peers at South Lakes. Your children's peers are performing just as well at South Lakes as they are at Oakton, with regards to SAT and SOL and college acceptance. Please don't rule out SL because you are only looking at aggregate scores. Example, last year more SL students (real numbers, not percentages) were admitted to the University of VA than Langley students. SL general population was 1200, Langley's was around 2000, yet more SL students were admitted.

Dear SL Parent, I appreciate your comments but we're not in the market for a school. That is a long way off for our family. When the time comes, we'll be looking at a variety of factors. Chief among those will be the school's overall academic performance and curriculum. If South Lakes or any other school comes up at the top of that list and is a good fit for our child, that's where we'll go. My comment about South Lakes was only in answer to HooTribe's question and was not intended as a criticism. I must admit, however, that I don't fully understand your analysis. If we were at the point of evaluating schools we would consider the entire school population to be peers of our child, not just those from the same neighborhood or with a similar background. Also, while UVA is a very fine school, I would not use admits to any one particular university alone as a measure of performance, besides which such a comparative statistic would only be useful if we knew the number who applied and were accepted from both as well as how many chose to eventually go. More broadly speaking, it is my hope that we can all begin addressing the larger needs and interests of all Fairfax County schools and their communities rather than focusing on the pros or cons of attending South Lakes or any other particular school. I hope you understand and I look forward to your thoughts on this subject.

Then we will be lucky to have you advocating for all students. Your voice will be an important one.

Congratulations! I commend your success in bringing such a diverse group of people with varying points of views together. It is now apparent that everyone is focused on finding a solution that best serves our children. I wish everyone the best of luck as you move forward in your endeavor. Please accept my sincere apology for my comments that have contributed to the hostility surrounding the redistricting issue



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2008 07:42AM by Margie.

They have gone back to the other thread so they can be rude,disrespectful and show complete intolerance to anyone that disagrees with them.

Where did everyone go? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have gone back to the other thread so they
> can be rude,disrespectful and show complete
> intolerance to anyone that disagrees with them.

Where did you go, FoxMillDad? Are you going to share anything that you have put together?

I successfully pupil placed my children in to Oakton. That's where I went.

FoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I successfully pupil placed my children in to
> Oakton. That's where I went.

Sounds like you are pleased - good for you and I wish your children well.

If they don't change the boundary and/or SL doesn't get the help it needs, I will be right behind you.

Hello Again! I had drifted away from this board to try and work on some of the issues related to redistricting and was surprised and amused to find a post under my alias, FoxMillDad, on this board. For what it matters, we didn't pupil place to Oakton; our child is not approaching high school yet, as I had said in an earlier post. I'm still interested in working constructively to address the underlying issues behind the redistricting fight, but I'm having a rough time getting people to have a real conversation, especially from the curret South Lakes PTA world. Nor do I blame them after years of neglect. But I also sympathize with those who do not want to move to South Lakes given the school's current performance. Frankly, my position is a bit like being a trench soldier in WWI. We're all just a few feet from one another and taking marching orders from people who don't act in any of our best interests. Isn't there anyone who is willing to stand up and negotiate an arrangement where everyone has their needs and interests addressed?

IS this where i kill them gay prostitutes?

TheRealFoxMillDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Again! I had drifted away from this board
> to try and work on some of the issues related to
> redistricting and was surprised and amused to find
> a post under my alias, FoxMillDad, on this board.
> For what it matters, we didn't pupil place to
> Oakton; our child is not approaching high school
> yet, as I had said in an earlier post. I'm still
> interested in working constructively to address
> the underlying issues behind the redistricting
> fight, but I'm having a rough time getting people
> to have a real conversation, especially from the
> curret South Lakes PTA world. Nor do I blame them
> after years of neglect. But I also sympathize
> with those who do not want to move to South Lakes
> given the school's current performance. Frankly,
> my position is a bit like being a trench soldier
> in WWI. We're all just a few feet from one
> another and taking marching orders from people who
> don't act in any of our best interests. Isn't
> there anyone who is willing to stand up and
> negotiate an arrangement where everyone has their
> needs and interests addressed?

After asking all these questions, we still don't know what you are proposing. What is your solution?

My proposed solution is to throw out a red herring, and in the meantime pupil place to Oakton.

HWFM and Other Adults, Since we can't seem to sustain a conversation here without someone (probably a kid) either pretending to be me or inserting some kind of profane, insulting diatribe against whoever or whatever comes to mind, I am going to stop my outreach to posters on Fairfax Underground and work elsewhere. Oh, well. Good luck to us all in building consensus solutions to our county wide school challenges.