Fairfax Times

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Published: Friday, September 16, 2011

School security cameras proposal draws parent glares in Fairfax County by holly hobbs

A group of high school principals has proposed expanding the use of video surveillance cameras from outside of schools to inside as well.
Adding cameras to common areas such as cafeterias and hallways could reduce bullying behavior, drug trafficking and other discipline issues on school campuses, they said.
Plans were presented to the School Board during a work session on Monday.
Adding indoor cameras, which would not include bathrooms or locker rooms, could free up staff who spend time during lunch and between classes supervising student behavior, principals said.
Currently, there are 372 exterior cameras at 30 schools within the Fairfax County Public School system, according to school staff. This does not include those cameras installed on school buses.
In-school cameras are currently used by neighboring public school systems like Prince William, Loudoun, Stafford, Fauquier and Culpeper counties.
“Not only school security, but the world of security is going this way,” said Dean Tistadt, the school system’s chief executive officer. “There is definitely data that shows that schools that have installed those cameras have reduced vandalism [such as graffiti and property destruction].”
Four options are available to the School Board on this topic, he said. The board could vote to maintain the level of video surveillance, put cameras in the cafeterias and other hot spots like entrance hallways, or put cameras schoolwide.
“Principals are unanimous in wanting these,” Tistadt said.
At least one parent group, however, is opposing the installation of cameras in Fairfax County Public high and secondary schools.
“What is being cited as the rationale for this expense is not rising to the level to justify the expense,” said Hayfield Secondary School parent Michelle Menapace, who heads the Fairfax Zero Tolerance Reform parent-group. The group, which represents about 300 parents, was formed in 2005 to lobby for reforms to the school system’s disciplinary policies it deems too stringent.
Adding cameras to cafeterias will cost about $8,000 per school. To install cameras schoolwide, the cost is estimated at $120,000 per school depending on the size and design of the school, said school officials.
“If this was about preventing food fights in the cafeteria, I agree that’s not good. But they knew about that [the West Springfield food fight last year] ahead of time and all they did was send teachers in to video tape with their cell phones,” Menapace said.
The food fight involved more than 100 students during one of the school’s lunch periods. School staff reported that the cafeteria cleanup took about eight hours. Students who were disciplined after the fight, which was believed at the time to be a senior prank, were allowed to do community service to restore certain privileges like attending school functions such as prom.
Similar food fights have been reported at other county public high schools.
“It was about entrapment,” West Springfield parent Jan Falk said of the use of cell phone cameras during the food fight. On expanding camera use, she said, “They are going 100 percent in the wrong direction. It’s a prison. You’re not going to school to learn and be a student. You’re coming in to be a convict.”
Principals proposing more cameras said the video surveillance could be used as a deterrent to “flash mobs” such as these mass-preplanned food fights.
But parents called the proposal a “big brother” move, adding that the video surveillance footage would be used to incriminate students, not prevent crimes.
“A visual alone does not tell the whole story,” she said. “We had one parent saying her [student] got in trouble for pushing a food tray off a table… what they couldn’t see was that the child was responding to a verbal assault.
“It’s not the complete story.”
Principals proposing the expansion of video camera use in schools belong to the High School Principals Association, which is led by Madison High School Principal Mark Merrell. According to a survey by the association, all of the county’s public high schools support increased video surveillance. Requests for an interview Thursday with Merrell were not responded to in time to meet press deadlines.
Parents at Madison High School in Vienna last year called on the school’s principal and other staff to increase their bathroom and locker checks to help reduce illegal drug distribution between students. Meetings were held last October at Madison, during which time parents said their students avoided parts of the school because of drug use and dealing in those areas.
According to the Virginia Department of Education, Madison High School reported 18 alcohol, tobacco or illegal drug offenses on campus or at school sponsored events during the 2009-10 school year, the last reported year. West Potomac High School had the most recorded incidents that year with 39 offenses, and the only school with no offenses recorded was Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.
The next step, Tistadt said, is for principals to take the camera proposal to their communities for feedback. Another School Board work session on the topic could be held as early as October.

hhobbs@fairfaxtimes.com

"Food fights" is not a very good reason to put cameras in a cafeteria.

Rampant food theft and counterfeiting are, though.

Food Services survives on its own - they pay their own way from food sales. When thieves steal food or, worse, use counterfeit bills to pay for food it literally hurts them (unlike, say, a tax-supported enterprise).

Cameras are everywhere in society, to include every personal laptop sold nowadays. What's the fucking big deal? Let those people who chose to work in schools, make the decisions for the schools. Those of us that don't work in schools, really have no idea...... i wouldn't let some teacher tell me how to run my business.

How about we take the thousands of dollars it would cost to put cameras in schools and use it to buy new textbooks or chairs. My math class has to consistently share chairs with other classes, and not all students have textbooks yet.

They should put them in the teacher's lounge so we can catch them cussing and badmouthing the kids, parents and the principal.

Monumental waste of money.

Why is there an expectation of privacy in a public school? It is taxpayer-purchased facilities, I have no problem knowing the facilities I pay for are under surveillance.

Contrary to what Jack Dale may say, what happens in our schools is dictated by SCHOOL BOARD policy.

SCHOOL BOARD, you know those 12 people who were ELECTED by the TAXPAYERS to oversee the school system.

Current policy alows for security surveillance on the exterior of buildings (at 30 schools) and a pilot surveillance program rolled out 2 years ago in 6 high schools where they had cameras on the lunchlines trying to catch kids stealing food. Apparently they didn't catch anyone so this program was discontinued.

The latest plan is to install cameras in the high school cafeterias and possibly expand them to other areas within the school.

The SB would have to approve this plan. Just because the lazy principals want the cameras doing their jobs-even though they are paid $125k per year-it doesn't mean it will happen.

The money has to come from somewhere. Just make a mental note of this the next time the likes of Kathy Smith come boohooing to you for a property tax increase. This is why they need more tax money---for crap like this.

The cameras are needed - not just for catching food fights. Violence in schools is starting as early as the kindergarten level. Kindergarten children with violent tendencies are throwing scissors, spitting on and kicking teachers. This information needs to be recorded so the courts can see how these children are behaving when it comes to cases of expulsion or even he said vs. she said cases where parents don't have a clue as to what their little heathens are capable of.

this kinda creeps me out. I mean with how many pedophiles there are already in fcps how are we going to know that these cameras wont be used to have some so called security guard get new fap material.

I say bring 'em, hopefully it would cut down all the sexual misconducts and abuses of students.

You are seriously wrong. Do you want security cameras in your place of business watching every single thing you do? Students, when they come to school, have done nothing wrong. They are convicted without a trial. Not only that it creates an environment of mistrust-and if you are into test scores there is a downward spiral associated with this hostile toxic environment. It only takes the FCPS down a wrong directed path that they are already heading. They are living off an old reputation of excellence as it is, continue to erode whatever FCPS used to be and its only a question of time. These parents who would let teachers and administrator do ANYTHING to their kids either because they, themselves, don't trust them (wow, how did that happen???) or they have some kind of inherent guilt of their own, need to seek treatment. School is supposed to be a place of learning, education and nurturing. If you can't create trust then school is prison, plain and simple.

They said they would be in common areas, not classrooms, try reading what they are trying to do. The rest of the country has had them for decades, FCPS is so progressive they failed to keep up. When you gas your car, go to the mall, stand in line at the bank you are under a camera. I dont think any of those cameras have given me a complex or inhibited my personal freedoms.My guess is Missy will get over it

Fauquier has had them in hallways, cafeteria and in the gym for years. We do not hve them in the classrooms however. Many vandals and bullies have been brought to justice and dozens of drug busts made because of them.
Cameras = all positive results, no downside.

Is your English so poor that you must resort to using '=' in a sentence?

All for having cameras in the public schools. They will provide objective evidence for the 5-10% of the juvenile idiots that cause all of the trouble and problems. In addition, the cameras will exonerate those students who did not do anything wrong when an incident happens and is recorded.

If you come to class and do not do anything wrong behavior-wise you have nothing to worry about.

Security Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All for having cameras in the public schools.
> They will provide objective evidence for the 5-10%
> of the juvenile idiots that cause all of the
> trouble and problems. In addition, the cameras
> will exonerate those students who did not do
> anything wrong when an incident happens and is
> recorded.
>
> If you come to class and do not do anything wrong
> behavior-wise you have nothing to worry about.


Yup. And all of those worried about "they are going to get me in trouble", well don't do anything that would lead to it.

I'm so glad I pulled my kids out of the public school system and put them into private school. Better results without all the drama.

We are too.Sheltered children usually make for socially dysfunctional adults .We need more of them

Ellipsis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is your English so poor that you must resort to
> using '=' in a sentence?


Do you know the difference between a comma and a period?


Posted by: Ellipsis ()

Date: September 10, 2011 05:55PM


This is why I don't live in NoVA. My county is only 0,5% hispanic...feels good.

another reason I would never live in Fauquier, do you really want to aspire down to Fauquier???

Security Man has alot of unfounded respect and trust for the system.

From: "WEST SPRINGFIELD HS"

Date: 17 Sep 2011

SCHOOL SECURITY CAMERAS -- You may have seen in the news this week that the Fairfax High School Principal’s Association supports the installation of interior cameras in our high schools. All twenty seven principals and I wholeheartedly support this effort because it will help promote the safety and security of our students, faculty, and staff and will help us make our campuses more secure. The decision whether or not to install interior cameras is ultimately that of the school board but we are hopeful they will approve this safety measure soon.



We have great students at West Springfield (and all across Fairfax County schools for that matter), and we see very few instances of poor behaviors, but the installation of cameras is a prudent and reasonable measure. As our building is open to the public and has no security staff on site after 4:30 p.m., the cameras would help monitor our school until it is locked up at 11:00 p.m.. The cameras would be installed in public common spaces and would not be installed in areas where there would be a reasonable expectation of privacy. The cameras would not be installed at the expense any other educational program. The cost will be paid using non-instructional funds. School staff will not be replaced by the cameras; we will continue to have school administration and security in our hallways. Interior cameras act as a deterrent for improper behavior. If improper behavior does occur, cameras help school staff quickly resolve the facts of the incident.



As we look to install these cameras in our school, I will be seeking input on where we would place them inside of the school. The cafeteria, main lobby, auditorium/main gym lobby will be covered. I also think it would also be a great idea to cover our hallways, especially since that is where all of the students’ lockers are located. I will be discussing this issue at the PTSA meeting on October 3 at 7:00 p.m. in Spartan Hall. All are welcomed to attend.

From Lee High School:


School Security Cameras: You may have seen in the news yesterday afternoon that the Fairfax High School Principal’s Association supports the installation of interior cameras in our high schools. All twenty seven principals and I wholeheartedly support this effort because it will help promote the safety and security of our students, faculty, and staff and will help us make our campuses more secure. The decision is ultimately that of the school board and we are hopeful they will approve this measure later this year.

We have great students at Lee (and all across Fairfax County schools for that matter) and we see very few instances of poor behaviors, but the installation of cameras is a prudent and reasonable measure. As our building is open to the public and has no security staff on site after 4:30 PM, the cameras would help monitor our school until it is locked up at 11:30 PM. The cameras would be installed in public common spaces and would not be installed in areas where there would be a reasonable expectation of privacy. The cameras would not be installed at the expense any other educational program, the cost will be paid using non-instructional funds. School staff will not be replaced by the cameras; we will continue to have school administration and security in our hallways. Interior cameras act as a deterrent for improper behavior. If improper behavior does occur, cameras help school staff quickly resolve the facts of the incident.

As we look to install cameras in our school, I would love to have your input on where we would place them. I would want our cafeteria, main lobby, auditorium lobby, and gym lobby covered for sure. I think it would also be a great idea to cover our hallways, especially since that is where all of our lockers are. Do you have ideas or suggestions?

Fairfax principals want indoor school cameras

By Emma Brown, Published: September 17

Views shift on board

But several board members say their feelings have begun to shift.

“Now you have sexting. You have YouTube. You have Facebook,” said Tessie Wilson (Braddock). “I don’t believe that kids have an expectation of themselves of privacy, because they’re putting so much out there for everybody to see.”

James L. Raney (At Large) remarked: “My bias is always to support the troops, and in this case to support the troop commanders — the principals. Students apparently cannot be trusted to have a safe and secure cafeteria environment.”

I know how tough it is to keep order in a school, but I need something more than your guts and your anecdotes,” board member Martina A. Hone (At Large) said at Monday’s meeting. “I need some harder data and some harder measurements.”


Wilson, Raney and Hone all comment for this article. Why them?

These three aren't seeking reelection.

What about Strauss, Smith, Moon and Storck???

Funny how they weren't quoted.

Any elected official who refuses to go on the record is a coward.

Put up or shut up.

Martina has obviously never worked in a school. Clueless

From Thomas Jefferson HS for Science and Technology:


School Security Cameras: You may have seen in the news yesterday afternoon that the Fairfax High School Principal’s Association supports the installation of interior cameras in our high schools. All twenty seven principals and I wholeheartedly support this effort because it will help promote the safety and security of some students, faculty, and staff and will help us make other campuses more secure. The decision is ultimately that of the school board and we are hopeful they will approve this measure later this year.

We have great students at TJHSST (better than all Fairfax County schools for that matter) and we see very few instances of poor behaviors, so the installation of cameras is not a prudent and reasonable measure for us. Though our building is open to the public and has no security staff on site after 4:30 PM, there have been no issues related to community use of after-school activities that cameras would help monitor until it is locked up at 11:30 PM. In other schools, cameras would be installed in public common spaces and would not be installed in areas where there would be a reasonable expectation of privacy, such as bathrooms where much of the illegal activity happens. The cameras would not be installed at the expense any other educational program, the cost will be paid using non-instructional funds. By not installing cameras, TJ can use this money for better purposes. School staff will not be replaced by the cameras so there are no cost savings; we will continue to have school administration and security in our hallways on rare occasions when needed. While interior cameras may act as a deterrent for improper behavior, we have so little of that at our school that they are not needed. If improper behavior does occur, our students always help school staff quickly resolve the facts of the incident.

As others look to install cameras in their schools, I would love to have your input on what to do with the money instead. I love that our cafeteria, main lobby, auditorium lobby, and gym lobby are already covered with examples of student pride. I think it would also be a great idea to cover our hallways, especially since that is where all of our lockers are. Do you have ideas or suggestions?

Range of penalties


Punishment for participating in a food fight could range from a warning to a recommendation for expulsion — with the latter applied to a student who threw something dangerous and was charged with assault. At West Springfield, Wardinski considered canceling the senior prom after the food fight but instead assigned students to a day of community service.


Ok, which foor is considered dangerous? Worthy of an expulsion?

I say we rank them in order from 1 to 5 on a danger scale.


I'll go first:

French Fries should be a 1.

Sounds like an awesome idea. They also allow the parents to be able to view the cameras check up on their kids.

That'll cut out all the BS the kids tell there parents.

"Non-educational funds". Does that mean my tax dollar is not paying for this? AHS had them in the lunch room to control theft - removed them as an utter failure. I can see a Security Contract or additional positions coming in MONITORING these cameras 24/7. Or the Principal/SRO is getting a webcam and will never leave the office now???

Jack Dale said student discipline only involved a teensy percentage of students- so why bother with the issue (I am paraphrasing, but thats how I heard it) and now Multi-Million Dollar Security Cameras? Hmmm.

As for the form letter home, it reads like it was written by Joesph Gobbels and copied by all the Principals.

And, Tina Hone is a former teacher.

I do; I use European notation for numbers e.g. 1'000,01 in lieu of 1,000.01.

yer eanglish teechar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellipsis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is your English so poor that you must resort to
> > using '=' in a sentence?
>
>
> Do you know the difference between a comma and a
> period?
>
>
> Posted by: Ellipsis ()
>
> Date: September 10, 2011 05:55PM
>
>
> This is why I don't live in NoVA. My county is
> only 0,5% hispanic...feels good.

There is NO EVIDENCE that cameras in schools prevent incidents. They are uniformly used to punish, and often unjustly. You'd have to have a dozen camera angles plus audio to ensure "objective" camera shots.

Why are these paranoid and authoritarian principals pushing this right after they bungled a few food fights??? (They were called to task by board members for how they handled it. Egg on their faces!) Why are they promoting this as their FIRST act after a long debate over reforming school discipline policies to be more humane, effective, and restorative? When there is so much else that needs attention, including a 20% Hispanic dropout rate, dropping SAT scores, the lowest teacher morale in decades, classroom sizes that top 35 students, depression and suicide ideation rates among teens that are through the roof?

The statement here: "We don't trust students. We can't do our jobs. We need big brotha' to fix a problem that we created in our paranoid minds and doesn't exist in reality."

Create imaginary bogeymen, foment fear, install an army to fight it: That's the way of dictatorships.

If this idiot school board goes forth with this, I propose that the FIRST place cameras in very hallway and public space of GATEHOUSE. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!!!

Good!!

Surveillance cameras monitor food intake in school cafeterias

Posted on May 17, 2011 - by Lydia Leavitt

Think it is safe to grab an extra slice of pie? Well, think again.

That's right, because San Antonio schools are installing cameras in cafeterias capable of reading bar codes embedded in food trays.

Using a $2 million grant from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the system will "snap a picture of the food tray at the cashier and we will know what has been served," said Dr. Roberto Trevino of the San Antonio-based Social and Health Research Center.

The premise of the program is to obtain a detailed list of exactly what kids in poor areas with high rates of childhood obesity are eating to develop a better nutrition plan.

The system goes as far as to measure what doesn’t get eaten too, "When the child goes back to the disposal window, we're going to measure the leftovers," Trevino added.

The cameras will identify the food, capture the nutrient levels and measure the food that children eat, says Dr. Roger Echon of the center responsible for the program.

The goal is to cut down on childhood obesity by providing parents and school administrators with detailed information about the types of food kids are eating and exactly how much. With the data collated by cafeteria cameras, they can then design healthier meals based on a student’s real-life habits, said the center’s spokeswoman Denise Jones.

"We will be able to determine whether current programs that are aimed at preventing obesity work, and whether they are really changing students' behavior," Trevino said.

During a recent visit to the W.W. White Elementary School, Dr. Echon presented a detailed food report based on one student's tray, including serving size, calories, fiber, sugar, and protein. The technology is apparently advanced enough to break down the data into total monounsaturated fatty acids, soluble dietary fiber, and more than 100 other specific measures.

Trevino added that the children will not be photographed and only those with permission will be able to partake in the program. If the effort is successful in San Antonio, the plan is to further implement the technology on a more widespread level.

"James L. Raney (At Large) remarked: “My bias is always to support the troops, and in this case to support the troop commanders — the principals. Students apparently cannot be trusted..."


Translation:
+ The School Board supports and works for the Superintendent and his staff.
+ Students are not to be trusted and what parents and teachers think is irrelevant.
+ The School Board will not bother to seek the input of the constituents/voters/taxpayers.

Hope there are a record number of votes on November 8th, because this man just said it in a nutshell.

1984 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is NO EVIDENCE that cameras in schools
> prevent incidents. They are uniformly used to
> punish, and often unjustly. You'd have to have a
> dozen camera angles plus audio to ensure
> "objective" camera shots.
>
> Why are these paranoid and authoritarian
> principals pushing this right after they bungled a
> few food fights??? (They were called to task by
> board members for how they handled it. Egg on
> their faces!) Why are they promoting this as their
> FIRST act after a long debate over reforming
> school discipline policies to be more humane,
> effective, and restorative? When there is so much
> else that needs attention, including a 20%
> Hispanic dropout rate, dropping SAT scores, the
> lowest teacher morale in decades, classroom sizes
> that top 35 students, depression and suicide
> ideation rates among teens that are through the
> roof?
>
> The statement here: "We don't trust students. We
> can't do our jobs. We need big brotha' to fix a
> problem that we created in our paranoid minds and
> doesn't exist in reality."
>
> Create imaginary bogeymen, foment fear, install an
> army to fight it: That's the way of
> dictatorships.
>
> If this idiot school board goes forth with this, I
> propose that the FIRST place cameras in very
> hallway and public space of GATEHOUSE. What's good
> for the goose is good for the gander!!!


AWESOME!
We should have a trial run at Gatehouse and all administration buildings first - find out how much time the supposed "class-based" {not in the classroom} personnel waste first. While we are at it, let's have all the Blackberry call logs of administration posted publicly and a GPS reporting of all FCPS administrative vehicles posted publicly. If they want to set an example of fighting crime and abuse, let's start with the adults first.
Now that's something I can get behind full force.
1984, that's a winner of an idea!

1984 is right on. I can't wait to see what they really do at the Gatehouse building.

"To install cameras schoolwide, the cost is estimated at $120,000 per school depending on the size and design of the school, said school officials."

120K per school x 194 schools = $23,280,000

That's JUST installation. Not maintenance, replacement, upgrading. Not monitoring, storage of data, programming of cameras. That's like saying it costs "$X" to buy a house and not figuring what utilities, upkeep, cost of yard maintenance and so on total.

Really, with everything we are facing in Fairfax County and this screwball School Board, we are now going to have to fight over $23 Million on cameras to watch every action of kids except in the bathroom or classroom.

Like I said, monumental waste of money.

The other part of this is that once they've set up this system to collect data they are going to be looking for some way to justify the setup and maintenance costs. This probably means another level of administrative experts to sift through that data and come up with useful bits of info such as "Many high school students come to school earing clothing inappropriate for the season."

I can't wait till a staff member shoves a student and the "video" magically disappears....

I'm confused. How does $8000 per school for installation equate to only $120,000? There are 196 schools and centers in the county. That comes to over 1.5 million, I believe. And that's assuming it really does cost only $8000 each. Unlikely given the varied sizes and layouts of the schools.


This sounds like someone's getting a friend some high dollar business before they get booted off the board.

You read it wrong. Cameras in the cafeteria alone are $8k. Putting cameras in multiple school locations in the same school runs $120k.

That's even scarier, Bill N. Thanks for the clarification. And where are the funds for this brilliant program supposed to come from? Anyone have data?

1984 states "there is NO EVIDENCE that cameras in school prevent incidents".

With that logic, I guess we should pull all cameras out of banks since there is no evidence showing they prevent robberies...

What a dumb ass statement as well as most of the opinions here against cameras. I work in the school system. The biggest problem in our school system today is parents. That is why most innovative, outside the box thinkers, are getting out while they can. What you will have left are a bunch of teachers and admins who could care less about your students and more about their paycheck. You will then get what you deserve. If your students don't do anything wrong, then they will have nothing to fear from cameras....what do you think.....I sit around all day looking for ways to screw with your students? Please....surely most of you are not as ignorant as 1984. There is surveillance every where we go.....grow a set and get over it.

I have kids at an FCPS high school. 2 core subjects are being taught through online manuals. No books. Cost saving benefit and better for the environment. Anytime I hear the word greener I know that means their pockets are greener cause they saved money. So you don't have $54 so my kid can have a history book or an algebra book but you have $120,000 just in case he throws spaghetti.

“Now you have sexting. You have YouTube. You have Facebook,” said Tessie Wilson (Braddock). “I don’t believe that kids have an expectation of themselves of privacy, because they’re putting so much out there for everybody to see.”

This oxygen thief doesn't understand the difference between information that people freely share (perhaps unwisely) and state sponsored 24/7 surveillance? Hey, Tessie, I found your bio online - guess you'd be ok if we drop a camera into your living room, since you are letting all hang out on the internet? Twit.

staff watched also Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait till a staff member shoves a student
> and the "video" magically disappears....


I vote for cameras in the band rooms to keep an eye on the band directors.

There are cameras in PG county schools. And the evidence supports the in those schools not one is down in incidents. They are up in catching who threw the apple. Do the cameras prevent bank robberies? Nope just help us catch the bank robber. Robberies are also up:)

With the rash of child pedophiles in the school lately no I don't want additional cameras there. Why not use the $120,000 for lunch room monitors if the only concern is who didn't like the apple sauce.

yougottobekiddin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1984 states "there is NO EVIDENCE that cameras in
> school prevent incidents".
>
> With that logic, I guess we should pull all
> cameras out of banks since there is no evidence
> showing they prevent robberies...
>
> What a dumb ass statement as well as most of the
> opinions here against cameras. I work in the
> school system. The biggest problem in our school
> system today is parents. That is why most
> innovative, outside the box thinkers, are getting
> out while they can. What you will have left are a
> bunch of teachers and admins who could care less
> about your students and more about their paycheck.
> You will then get what you deserve. If your
> students don't do anything wrong, then they will
> have nothing to fear from cameras....what do you
> think.....I sit around all day looking for ways to
> screw with your students? Please....surely most
> of you are not as ignorant as 1984. There is
> surveillance every where we go.....grow a set and
> get over it.



Agreed , I work in a school as well. Many parents are total control freaks, If anyone came to their place of business and act the way many do when they come to school, they would be phoning or security to escort them out. What these know it alls dont realize is that many school systems and most of the larger ones already have cameras.Again the small minority of vocal parents will try to turn the tide from the main stream public by whining to any news channel that will give them 5 minutes of air time. Please quit listening to the paranoid few who want you to believe the school system is devising new ways to punish your child.

It looks like a D.C. Starbucks is already using video cameras to record their customers. But the use is probably illegal:

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/09/d-c-starbucks-sued-over-bathroom-hidden-camera-66723.html

I see what you did there.


Another one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Thomas Jefferson HS for Science and
> Technology:
>
>
> School Security Cameras: You may have seen in the
> news yesterday afternoon that the Fairfax High
> School Principal’s Association supports the
> installation of interior cameras in our high
> schools. All twenty seven principals and I
> wholeheartedly support this effort because it will
> help promote the safety and security of some
> students, faculty, and staff and will help us make
> other campuses more secure. The decision is
> ultimately that of the school board and we are
> hopeful they will approve this measure later this
> year.
>
> We have great students at TJHSST (better than all
> Fairfax County schools for that matter) and we see
> very few instances of poor behaviors, so the
> installation of cameras is not a prudent and
> reasonable measure for us. Though our building is
> open to the public and has no security staff on
> site after 4:30 PM, there have been no issues
> related to community use of after-school
> activities that cameras would help monitor until
> it is locked up at 11:30 PM. In other schools,
> cameras would be installed in public common spaces
> and would not be installed in areas where there
> would be a reasonable expectation of privacy, such
> as bathrooms where much of the illegal activity
> happens. The cameras would not be installed at the
> expense any other educational program, the cost
> will be paid using non-instructional funds. By not
> installing cameras, TJ can use this money for
> better purposes. School staff will not be
> replaced by the cameras so there are no cost
> savings; we will continue to have school
> administration and security in our hallways on
> rare occasions when needed. While interior cameras
> may act as a deterrent for improper behavior, we
> have so little of that at our school that they are
> not needed. If improper behavior does occur, our
> students always help school staff quickly resolve
> the facts of the incident.
>
> As others look to install cameras in their
> schools, I would love to have your input on what
> to do with the money instead. I love that our
> cafeteria, main lobby, auditorium lobby, and gym
> lobby are already covered with examples of student
> pride. I think it would also be a great idea to
> cover our hallways, especially since that is where
> all of our lockers are. Do you have ideas or
> suggestions?

How about having the adults in the school building...ACT LIKE ADULTS. Get the teachers out in the hallways/cafeterias and have them help...I know this might interfer with their starbucks and pannera breaks, but cum on.

It's $120,000 per school up front. I bet the cost is actually higher. And that's not counting the ongoing costs, once they're installed.

For something that doesn't work and seems pretty damn invasive?

suggestion... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about having the adults in the school
> building...ACT LIKE ADULTS. Get the teachers out
> in the hallways/cafeterias and have them help...I
> know this might interfer with their starbucks and
> pannera breaks, but cum on.

Oh right... any discipline occurs and the parents scream bloody murder. Teachers don't get paid enough for that hassle.

how about this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> staff watched also Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can't wait till a staff member shoves a
> student
> > and the "video" magically disappears....
>
>
> I vote for cameras in the band rooms to keep an
> eye on the band directors.


+1 (million)

come on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed , I work in a school as well. Many parents
> are total control freaks, If anyone came to their
> place of business and act the way many do when
> they come to school, they would be phoning or
> security to escort them out. What these know it
> alls dont realize is that many school systems and
> most of the larger ones already have cameras.Again
> the small minority of vocal parents will try to
> turn the tide from the main stream public by
> whining to any news channel that will give them 5
> minutes of air time. Please quit listening to the
> paranoid few who want you to believe the school
> system is devising new ways to punish your child.


"paranoid few who want you to believe the school system is devising new ways to punish your child"

You "work in a school"? Yeah, right - as a principal. How many teachers support being taped? What is going to happen with the tapes? Who is going to view them?
It is obscene this is being discussed. You aren't devising new ways to use the cameras to educate our children. Remember, that is the point of our schools - not to nab the infractions of the bloated discipline policy.

Let's get back to a curriculum that gets kids educated, ready for college and/or employed!

come on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please quit listening to the
> paranoid few who want you to believe the school
> system is devising new ways to punish your child.


Paul Wardinski, principal of West Springfield High. ...“If we had video, we would have gotten them.”

Yeah, you're right. Nothing to see here.

LRRfolk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> come on Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agreed , I work in a school as well. Many
> parents
> > are total control freaks, If anyone came to
> their
> > place of business and act the way many do when
> > they come to school, they would be phoning or
> > security to escort them out. What these know it
> > alls dont realize is that many school systems
> and
> > most of the larger ones already have
> cameras.Again
> > the small minority of vocal parents will try to
> > turn the tide from the main stream public by
> > whining to any news channel that will give them
> 5
> > minutes of air time. Please quit listening to
> the
> > paranoid few who want you to believe the school
> > system is devising new ways to punish your
> child.
>
>
> "paranoid few who want you to believe the school
> system is devising new ways to punish your child"
>
> You "work in a school"? Yeah, right - as a
> principal. How many teachers support being taped?
> What is going to happen with the tapes? Who is
> going to view them?
> It is obscene this is being discussed. You aren't
> devising new ways to use the cameras to educate
> our children. Remember, that is the point of our
> schools - not to nab the infractions of the
> bloated discipline policy.
>
> Let's get back to a curriculum that gets kids
> educated, ready for college and/or employed!


Well if your kid gets the shit kicked out of him in a hallway and "nobody saw anything", you'll figure this out on your own

Well if you are going to subject teachers and administrators to being captured on camera as well, I love the idea, cameras in the classroom, where you can actually see that the stuff that kids tell you (that you don't believe actually happen), teachers screaming, having fits, telling their boring life stories for hours (to a captive audience), teaching poorly, not teaching at all, making no sense, losing homework and some great teachers as well, I am ALL for that!!!

so much for originality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Lee High School:
>
>
> School Security Cameras: You may have seen in the
> news yesterday afternoon that the Fairfax High
> School Principal’s Association supports the
> installation of interior cameras in our high
> schools. All twenty seven principals and I
> wholeheartedly support this effort because it will
> help promote the safety and security of our
> students, faculty, and staff and will help us make
> our campuses more secure. The decision is
> ultimately that of the school board and we are
> hopeful they will approve this measure later this
> year.
>
> We have great students at Lee (and all across
> Fairfax County schools for that matter) and we see
> very few instances of poor behaviors, but the
> installation of cameras is a prudent and
> reasonable measure. As our building is open to the
> public and has no security staff on site after
> 4:30 PM, the cameras would help monitor our school
> until it is locked up at 11:30 PM. The cameras
> would be installed in public common spaces and
> would not be installed in areas where there would
> be a reasonable expectation of privacy. The
> cameras would not be installed at the expense any
> other educational program, the cost will be paid
> using non-instructional funds. School staff will
> not be replaced by the cameras; we will continue
> to have school administration and security in our
> hallways. Interior cameras act as a deterrent for
> improper behavior. If improper behavior does
> occur, cameras help school staff quickly resolve
> the facts of the incident.
>
> As we look to install cameras in our school, I
> would love to have your input on where we would
> place them. I would want our cafeteria, main
> lobby, auditorium lobby, and gym lobby covered for
> sure. I think it would also be a great idea to
> cover our hallways, especially since that is where
> all of our lockers are. Do you have ideas or
> suggestions?


Who is going to be monitoring the camera feed? If it's an AP or principal or SRO then who's in the cafeteria? I think most middle and high schools have a minimum of 6 of all those I listed.

Why can't teachers eat in the cafeteria? Perhaps a revolving shift? This cafeteria BS is stupid and would not have happened in the first place if staff wasn't avoiding student contact.

Unemployed school board members and gatehouse gang can go out to lunch.

First off, I am a product of FCPS but many moons ago. In my Junior High (then called that - no 6th graders) we had a rough group of white trash boys and the same with some black kids (boys and girls both rough - I had my purse snatched by a black girl gang).

The School Principal or his designee was in the Cafeteria EVERY DAY EVERY LUNCH. This was back in the day with no free lunches or lunch cards. If some kid was sitting there with no food, they got a lunch or at least a PBJ sandwich. Not PC today - some kid would die of a peanut allergy I guess.

Think about it - hundreds of kids penned in one room, the decibel level cranked up, and no food or crappy food.... Of course without supervision there will be a "food fight" of some kind.

I am against the cameras, I am for the over paid ADMIN staff to get out the office and stepping up a creating a presence - a friendly one like the Walmart Greeters - so bad stuff does not happen.

A camera does not prevent crime, it just records it. And someone is going to figure out how to disable the camera if there is something going down.

Kids just don't decide o have a food fight for the hell of it.

They usually do it because they have no respect for the principal and administration of a school.

They are emotionally detached from their school due to often dictatorial policies.

Lee High School's food fight was well publicized on student Facebook pages. The administrators are dopes if they didn't know it was happening.

The kids are sick and tired of Abe Jeffers and his senseless rules including his student in good standing policy which would kick a kid off ateam for being late to class. It became so impossible to reach his "student in good standing" that the kids didn't give a crap anymore.

The breaking point was when he banned yoga pants.

Chaos ensued.

Good principals have a well behaved student population. This isn't rocket science folks.

Good Standing Update:
The second quarter data is in for our grades and, unfortunately, we have an increase in the numbers of students who are out of good standing due to grades.

You will recall that at the end of the first quarter, approximately 240 students had a GPA below 2.0, our good standing cutoff. At the end of the second quarter, that number has increased to 353 students. This breaks down to 120 Freshman, 93 Sophomores, 75 Juniors, and 65 Seniors.

Students who are not in good standing may not participate in sports, clubs, or activities and may not attend events such as pep rallies or after school events like Blizzard Blast, plays, concerts, or athletic events. Students will be notified of their second quarter GPA and good standing status by their Lancer Time teachers and a letter will be mailed home to parents.

fascist pig motherfuckers.

LANCER IN GOOD STANDING
In conjunction with our Positive Behavior Support Program, we are continuing to develop and implement a privilege system for students and have created firm guidelines to define if a student is in good standing and therefore eligible for privileges. At Lee High School, in order to be in good standing a student must minimally maintain a 2.0 GPA, miss a class no more than five times a quarter, have no Honor Code violations, and have not been assigned in or out of School Suspension (ISS or OSS).
As we implement this program, students in good standing will have their ID badges to indicate their status - a student who is not in good standing will have their badge confiscated for the remainder of the quarter. In order to attend school sponsored events such as dances, pep rallies, and all after school activities, a student must be in good standing. This is a positive way to help our students make good choices and earn awards and recognition and we look forward to the implementation of this program.
We are still working on full implementation of this plan and will be rolling out and modifying our program along the way.It is our hope and desire that all students remain in good standing so they can make the most of their entire high school experience.

Why not a mandatory Study Hall after school for students interested in maintaining their status? This sounds like a shut out policy to me - one that will just put kids out on the streets to do Something Else other than sports, clubs, pep rallies or whatever. This policy is begging these kids to join a gang or form one.

Many years ago, when my son played HS sports and the Coach had a mandatory study hall BEFORE practice. For everyone, not just the low GPA kids. And if the grades were not up, they were benched during the next game.

At least it felt like the Coach wanted them to be on team and cared about the players. Now, they are expendable.

IDs will be confiscated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LANCER IN GOOD STANDING
> In conjunction with our Positive Behavior Support
> Program, we are continuing to develop and
> implement a privilege system for students and have
> created firm guidelines to define if a student is
> in good standing and therefore eligible for
> privileges. At Lee High School, in order to be in
> good standing a student must minimally maintain a
> 2.0 GPA, miss a class no more than five times a
> quarter, have no Honor Code violations, and have
> not been assigned in or out of School Suspension
> (ISS or OSS).
> As we implement this program, students in good
> standing will have their ID badges to indicate
> their status - a student who is not in good
> standing will have their badge confiscated for the
> remainder of the quarter. In order to attend
> school sponsored events such as dances, pep
> rallies, and all after school activities, a
> student must be in good standing. This is a
> positive way to help our students make good
> choices and earn awards and recognition and we
> look forward to the implementation of this
> program.
> We are still working on full implementation of
> this plan and will be rolling out and modifying
> our program along the way.It is our hope and
> desire that all students remain in good standing
> so they can make the most of their entire high
> school experience.

This is amazing, and worse that I ever thought imaginable. Lee HS has 1800 students - 20% of whom are banned from ANY activity? That's amazing. I can understand a grade cutoff for sports or band - but not even one time events like attending sports or a concert? We have some seriously misguided people who should not even be employed by FCPS.

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well if you are going to subject teachers and
> administrators to being captured on camera as
> well, I love the idea, cameras in the classroom,
> where you can actually see that the stuff that
> kids tell you (that you don't believe actually
> happen), teachers screaming, having fits, telling
> their boring life stories for hours (to a captive
> audience), teaching poorly, not teaching at all,
> making no sense, losing homework and some great
> teachers as well, I am ALL for that!!!

+1

Duchess:

You're royalty in my book. One of the best posts I've ever read on the subject.
Pip Pip, Cheerio School Board Members.

Marchioness

time to play a game, folks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Range of penalties
>
>
> Punishment for participating in a food fight could
> range from a warning to a recommendation for
> expulsion — with the latter applied to a student
> who threw something dangerous and was charged with
> assault. At West Springfield, Wardinski considered
> canceling the senior prom after the food fight but
> instead assigned students to a day of community
> service.
>
>
> Ok, which foor is considered dangerous? Worthy of
> an expulsion?
>
> I say we rank them in order from 1 to 5 on a
> danger scale.
>
>
> I'll go first:
>
> French Fries should be a 1.


OK...
a bowl of hot soup in the face...4?
a full pint of milk point blank range in the eye...5?

IDs will be confiscated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LANCER IN GOOD STANDING
> In conjunction with our Positive Behavior Support
> Program, we are continuing to develop and
> implement a privilege system for students and have
> created firm guidelines to define if a student is
> in good standing and therefore eligible for
> privileges. At Lee High School, in order to be in
> good standing a student must minimally maintain a
> 2.0 GPA, miss a class no more than five times a
> quarter, have no Honor Code violations, and have
> not been assigned in or out of School Suspension
> (ISS or OSS).
> As we implement this program, students in good
> standing will have their ID badges to indicate
> their status - a student who is not in good
> standing will have their badge confiscated for the
> remainder of the quarter. In order to attend
> school sponsored events such as dances, pep
> rallies, and all after school activities, a
> student must be in good standing. This is a
> positive way to help our students make good
> choices and earn awards and recognition and we
> look forward to the implementation of this
> program.
> We are still working on full implementation of
> this plan and will be rolling out and modifying
> our program along the way.It is our hope and
> desire that all students remain in good standing
> so they can make the most of their entire high
> school experience.


TOTALLY AGREE...I wonder if "Lancer Time" is a study hall.

I meant I TOTALLY AGREE with DUCHESS...I wonder if "Lancer Time" is a study hall.

My taxes shouldn't go toward a camera system that protects school property. My taxes should be given those on welfare, like foodstamps to a never employed mother of nine, who is having trouble making ends meet. Ya know.... like buying condoms.

Think these folks are FCPS grads? Big Brother is both scary and dumb as an ox.

Not sure how many last straws we need to figure out that Jack Dale is the worst possible Superintendent and the ignoramuses who extended his contract need their's cancelled on November 8, 2011.


http://www.ocisecurity.com/blog/2010/11/11/surveillance-cameras-allow-school-security-personnel-to-do-a-specific-job/

Surveillance Cameras allow school security personnel to do a specific job.

There are some things customer should consider when buying a security camera. First, identify the magnitude of the need for a security camera. So says the size of the area is for those who need the camera. This will help to customer decide what type of camera to go. Then think about the kind of features they expect from their camera to help in the security of their organization. For example, all security cameras provide playback, but some of them provide simultaneous playback of four shots. What kind of features that require the camera to help them decide the size of the camera they are buying.

Security cameras systems offer everything from the versatility to durability. They are an easy way to defend user home against theft. Where are potential thieves that their home is controlled by a security camera that will stop and move to a house without warranty. Security cameras are designed to put user mind at ease so they can relax and enjoy life. User should not have trouble finding the perfect camera customized to meet their security needs.

Let's just go ahead and hire these guys for each school, since we are apparently in need of campus lockdowns throughout the county.

Welcome to school kiddies.
Attachments:

and Loudoun County is also trying to make their schools less like lock-down
http://www.loudounschooldisciplinereform.org/

Duchess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not a mandatory Study Hall after school for
> students interested in maintaining their status?
> This sounds like a shut out policy to me - one
> that will just put kids out on the streets to do
> Something Else other than sports, clubs, pep
> rallies or whatever. This policy is begging these
> kids to join a gang or form one.
>

I'd like to see the racial breakdown of the 240 students 'not in good standing'. Something tells me it skews heavily black and/or hispanic. Perhaps this is just a way of excluding the brown kids from the white kids' activities.

Jack Dale is all about the TOP half of the FCPS. Shame on him.

Remember this is for all our kids. Somehow our children our now paying the price and we let him get away with it.

We can do better. Let's get rid of JD.

1984 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is NO EVIDENCE that cameras in schools
> prevent incidents. They are uniformly used to
> punish, and often unjustly. You'd have to have a
> dozen camera angles plus audio to ensure
> "objective" camera shots.
>
> Why are these paranoid and authoritarian
> principals pushing this right after they bungled a
> few food fights??? (They were called to task by
> board members for how they handled it. Egg on
> their faces!) Why are they promoting this as their
> FIRST act after a long debate over reforming
> school discipline policies to be more humane,
> effective, and restorative? When there is so much
> else that needs attention, including a 20%
> Hispanic dropout rate, dropping SAT scores, the
> lowest teacher morale in decades, classroom sizes
> that top 35 students, depression and suicide
> ideation rates among teens that are through the
> roof?
>
> The statement here: "We don't trust students. We
> can't do our jobs. We need big brotha' to fix a
> problem that we created in our paranoid minds and
> doesn't exist in reality."
>
> Create imaginary bogeymen, foment fear, install an
> army to fight it: That's the way of
> dictatorships.
>
> If this idiot school board goes forth with this, I
> propose that the FIRST place cameras in very
> hallway and public space of GATEHOUSE. What's good
> for the goose is good for the gander!!!


What an asshole..

Well it should be used against the administration, lets have security cameras in the classrooms and the principals offices too, lets capture the bad instruction and secret backroom meetings where they do nothing but blame students and parents, if there had been a camera in the cafeteria at WSHS they would have caught the assistant principal pulling the fire alarm, which they denied, but I am sure that tape would have mysteriously disappeared. I mean FCPS are already too much like North Korea do we need more cloak and dagger crap???

I wonder if I should have started a new thread for this topic, but when I was reading about the camera controversy, I came across Abe Jeffers name as principal at Lee HS.

I am so disheartened to find out that he was promoted to principal at Lee after his dismal and disgusting performance at McLean HS as Wardinski's assistant principal. I now suspect that what I read (and discounted) during the SB election about FCPS becoming dysfunctional may be very true if this man could be promoted. I wish I could change some of my votes.

He can barely write an articulate sentence and his people skills are nonexistent. He seems to fear and dislike his students, and has no hesitation about lying straight to a parent's face. There is nothing good I can say about this man.

just an update, it passed. so now you can expect more of big brother in the schools.

on the news i love how a board member talked about how this was prompted by "dangerous food fights" as if people were throwing bricks at each other.

congratulations to everyone for thinking of the children by creating a more oppressive/hostile environment in our schools.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

well thats no surprise, FCPS specifically rammed it through before new school board members c'ould be seated, they are the North Korea of education and Dale is Kim Jung Il. Hope new board members grow a pair and do what they were elected to do, which is oversee and administration is reportable to the PEOPLE.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...i love how a board member talked about
> how this was prompted by "dangerous food fights"
> as if people were throwing bricks at each other.

Though I think the board member's comment might be a little "over the top", wasn't someone actually eye-injured in one of these "food fights"?

I have no problem at all with cameras in and around schools and, frankly, am totally surprised they don't already have them. The number of afterhours break-ins and vandalisms that occur in school would have screamed out long ago to have them.

My unerstanding is that the vote is to allow cameras inside the schools. It will be up to the individual schools to decide on installing them.

Building the Future...Child by Child
The mission of the Fairfax County School Board is to inspire, enable, and empower students to meet high academic standards, lead ethical lives, and demonstrate responsible citizenship. The three student achievement goals—Academics, Essential Life Skills, and Responsibility to the Community—were developed by the School Board in 2006 to accomplish this mission.

The Student Achievement Goals are the Board’s statement of expected performance outcomes for students attending our schools. The Board will judge the overall success of the school system on the basis of reasonable progress toward achieving these goals, along with the system’s compliance with the Board’s stated Operational Expectations. Continuous monitoring by the Board will provide the means for judging reasonable progress toward achieving the Student Achievement Goals.

I agree with the comment about Jeffers. Im still shocked at how he was able to get a school. His people skills are horrible and I agree he is scared of his students. All of the school's original administrative team left after he was appointed and he brought in pretty much all brand new administrators with very little experience. The administrative team does not even remotely resemble the student population.

I think its ridiculous honestly. Schools already have 3-4 security personnel, a school police officer, dean of students, and 3-4 assistant principals. This is WAY more than most schools have around the state but they seems to be able to resolve problems okay with and without cameras. Lets give principals an option add cameras then you lose a security position. Long story short, BETTER MANAGEMENT is needed.

I hope you are not a parent.

What is it about FCPS promoting and retaining lousy principals? It seems like they appreciate mediocrity more than quality.

There is NO innovation or trust in FCPS, the toxic lackluster stuff trickles down from the top, administration is nothing but lapdogs for corrupt figurehead who is having a lameduck all expenses paid two years before he leaves, he's never there anyway, doesn't talk to parents, could care less, and have several, if not 5 houses in Maryland, which is where he is most of the time.

Public schools are no different than prisons these days.

... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Public schools are no different than prisons these
> days.

All I can say is I sure am glad this lady won.
http://live.washingtonpost.com/high-school-students-rights-121611.html
Like our departing Tina Hone she has the will to speak the truth publicly.

She may have won but the cameras are coming anyway, the majority of people still have some common sense.

I am also glad elizabeth Schultz won even though I am a democrat. We need change, we need "common sense" that includes what works best for students and parents, not just a prison system where administrators are given free reign to do attrocities at will. I will bet that "You lose" doesn't have kids in the system and problem knows NOTHING about education, just another moron with a dumb comment about nothing. And btw the cameras are NOT a done deal because the new school board has the opportunity to deny the funding.

You lose the bet, I had 2 go through all 12 years ( and on to college) and from the stories they told, cameras are long overdue Funny you use the word atrocities, I thought that was reserved for things like genocides and such, not for disciplining kids who cant or wont follow simple and obvious rules.Believe me, the cameras are coming.

Maybe the cameras will catch the Vice Principals growing weed. Or the Principals peddling sex stimulants like at Mt. Vernon.

youloseoncemore: your kids must have been in the system 100 years ago, and big deal they went to college, probably VA college which is crap. From a source that would know: the cameras are contingent on funding and the new school board is ready to fight. Even though you don't trust your own kids, other parents do cause they want to uphold their civil liberties. And yes- cameras would be great if they were catching administrators selling real estate to teachers they directly supervise at schools like, ah - Robinson, but no, they will just to used to entrap students, same old, same old.

More of the same

moronsinfcps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> youloseoncemore: your kids must have been in the
> system 100 years ago, and big deal they went to
> college, probably VA college which is crap. From a
> source that would know: the cameras are contingent
> on funding and the new school board is ready to
> fight. Even though you don't trust your own kids,
> other parents do cause they want to uphold their
> civil liberties. And yes- cameras would be great
> if they were catching administrators selling real
> estate to teachers they directly supervise at
> schools like, ah - Robinson, but no, they will
> just to used to entrap students, same old, same
> old.


Wow,I feel sorry for your family if you still have one. If not just go kick the dog

cdc watch