FCPS Going online with social studies textbooks.

MORE PROGRESSIVE IDIOTS THINKING THEY "KNOW" WHAT'S GOOD FOR OUR KIDS. ANOTHER EXPERIMENT FROM FCPS. THE PSYCHOLOGY OF LEARNING IMPLICITLY REQUIRES A HARD COPY OF LEARNING MATERIALS...NOT LOOKING A COMPUTER SCREEN. JEEZ.

edit by Cary: Prefixed subject line with "FCPS Going online with social studies textbooks" to distinguish from other "Jack Dale" subjects.

edit by Cary #2: Merged the similar thread "Fairfax Middle, High School Textbooks Go Online" into this one. May the timestamps and subject lines be your guide.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 06:32PM by Cary.

That key just above the left-shift key on your keyboard - Press it. Oh, and join us in the 21st century.

I'm not worried about online texts. I'm worried about the 10% of the county that does not have internet access. But, hey, I guess 10% is acceptable as a drop out rate.

what to worry about Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not worried about online texts. I'm worried
> about the 10% of the county that does not have
> internet access. But, hey, I guess 10% is
> acceptable as a drop out rate.


What are the odds that they field tested these at any of the Rt 1 corridor or Annandale schools? I'd peg the lack of internet access in those communities at closer to 50%.

I guess I will need to print off the book since my son likes to study on the way to practice and other car trips.

we have one computer in our house Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I will need to print off the book since my
> son likes to study on the way to practice and
> other car trips.

Buy him an iPad, dummy. You live in the third richest county in the country, you can certainly afford one.... right?

This is great so the Statists can revise history as current events change to suit their agenda.

Another elitist idea, not all residents are "rich".

Technology is great. I believe we need technology in our schools, but FCPS cannot go from zero to 100 in one day, one month or even one year unless they have secretly squired away some money to provide each student with a computer/ipad. What about children who learn in different ways?

Here's an idea-(if the public only knew)- Let's take some of the huge amounts of taxpayers money FCPS completely squanders representing themselves with Harvard educated attorneys in legal suits when parents are forced to sue FCPS (at parent's expense) just to get FCPS to do the right thing and help their child get the most minimal access to the educational system.
FCPS administration fails our children in so many ways, bad judgement,bad decisions and no moral compass. It is so apparent from recent situations in FCPS. Where is the logic and common sense?

"What are the odds that they field tested these at any of the Rt 1 corridor or Annandale schools? I'd peg the lack of internet access in those communities at closer to 50%."

So we hold back the 90% to make things fair? Typical liberal thinking dont bring the minority up drag the majority down.

Maybe if the parents spent money on a laptop rather than the latest cell phone, nail salons or flashy clothes they could make a down payment on a computer.

FCPS gets a set number of paper copies of the textbook based on the number of on-line textbook licenses they purchase. Kids that don't have online access will still have access to a paper copy of the textbook.

The county is not changing the books, just all new books will be online. Every student who wants a text book or can not access the internet at home will be given a copy. Really the only reason this is being done is to save money. Each book costs around $75. The online access is dirt cheap (no actual price yet per copy) but the schools are expecting to pay the cost of one grade level for the entire school access.

We should be celebrating this instead of complaining.

1. If the student does not have a laptop they can bring to school they will be able to check one out.
2. If the student is on free or reduced lunch and does not have Internet access at home then Cox is going to give them internet for only $10.
3. Instead of your whiny spoiled kids complaining about bringing 4 books home (in the future) they will be able to bring their laptop only.
4. I think some of you enjoy complaining for the sake of complaining.. Go move to another county and I guarantee you will be back before October
5. This is saving the county TONS of money that they can put to better uses like sports, teachers,and other activities!!

Snob.

Is there online proof? The FCPS website has nothing.

text book Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The county is not changing the books, just all new
> books will be online. Every student who wants a
> text book or can not access the internet at home
> will be given a copy. Really the only reason this
> is being done is to save money. Each book costs
> around $75. The online access is dirt cheap (no
> actual price yet per copy) but the schools are
> expecting to pay the cost of one grade level for
> the entire school access.

Unless you are ordering the books for a dept you have no idea the cost. Hardcover books go for 75 to 80 a pop and its necessary for every dept chair to read the fine print on online texts. Yes they get online books for less but you have to negotiate a licensing contract for each subsequent year. So an online book might cost 25 bucks this year or whatever but next year its going to be 15 then 15 the following year and 15 15 and so on. Its important to understand the long range costs before saying how "cheap" it is.

Finally, despite assertion that all students have access fcps needs to provide students with the tool to use the online textbook instead of only the resource. Have all students check out laptops at the start of the year or buy kindles/nooks/ereaders for all students instead of assuming that all students have the internet access at home. To be frank, you don't try to build a house by giving the house builder some wood and nails, you also have to give him a hammer.

Beyond all that there's this underlying idea among bigwigs in the county that students know how to use a computer and the internet. The truth is most of them don't have a clue...if going on facebook and going to espn.com constitute understanding how to use the internet then I weep. Ask a student to do research with the internet, a lot of them can't they take everything at face value if its there they won't question the validity or reliability. They make powerpoint that look like paragraphs or say nothing...they still write poor papers with a spell check and grammar monitor though those are to be assistants not end all be alls.

Regardless, the assumption is oh they text they facebook they do whatever on the internet so that's how they learn. Its hard to believe that those things translate into learning...I'm not totally against online textbooks if we give them the tool to use the resource but some of the arguments from people who make way more money than I do aren't really valid.

>We should be celebrating this instead of complaining.

>1. If the student does not have a laptop they can bring to school they will >be able to check one out.
> 2. If the student is on free or reduced lunch and does not have Internet >access at home then Cox is going to give them internet for only $10.
> 3. Instead of your whiny spoiled kids complaining about bringing 4 books >home (in the future) they will be able to bring their laptop only.
> 4. I think some of you enjoy complaining for the sake of complaining.. Go >move to another county and I guarantee you will be back before October
> 5. This is saving the county TONS of money that they can put to better uses >like sports, teachers,and other activities!!

They can use the free internetz at the club house/rec center that we FFX Co tax payers pay for located at their subsidizes housing residences. My goodness, what will be the penalty if a child loses (sells) a laptop? Will they have to reimburse the county?! HA! The likes of you are what is wrong with FFX Co.

Since you seem to know so much about this subject do live in one of these luxury housing units that has a rec center full of computers?

I call BS.

Even if 89% of kids in the FCPS has Internet access it it is still not high enough.

I do not have a problem with online text books as long as each child has equal access to them.

agreed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What are the odds that they field tested these at
> any of the Rt 1 corridor or Annandale schools? I'd
> peg the lack of internet access in those
> communities at closer to 50%.

Now Annandale is the new Mount Vernon. Thanks School Board.

Not only that what about the kids who have to take a bus to school while others have a car. Very unfair if you ask me. The county should also provide each student that has a drivers license with a new car. Then they can drive to school where they receive free breakfast and lunch.

Then go home to the free housing with their free laptop eating their government cheese and playing on Facebook. Then when test scores come out with certain minority groups scoring lower than others they can cry racism.

Does the list of free shit ever end with some people?

zebra one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "What are the odds that they field tested these at
> any of the Rt 1 corridor or Annandale schools? I'd
> peg the lack of internet access in those
> communities at closer to 50%."
>
> So we hold back the 90% to make things fair?
> Typical liberal thinking dont bring the minority
> up drag the majority down.
>
> Maybe if the parents spent money on a laptop
> rather than the latest cell phone, nail salons or
> flashy clothes they could make a down payment on a
> computer.


I know of one elementary school, along the Rt.1 Corridor, where all the kids who can't afford one are provided with laptops, of course at taxpayer expense.

I'd guess most of these kids do have internet access since many of them live in Section 8 housing and I'm pretty certain that internet access is provided as a basic human necessity!

Dear tmill9,

Do you know how the students get these computers? Didn't think so... What ACTUALLY happens is good people donate their old computers to the county and then high school students in computer classes FIX these computers with donated parts and then give them to students who do not have access. They aren't selling these computers evince they know they aren't worth much and are so excited to have a computer! Get educated before making an ass out of yourself...

To Joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since you seem to know so much about this subject
> do live in one of these luxury housing units that
> has a rec center full of computers?
>
> I call BS.
>
> Even if 89% of kids in the FCPS has Internet
> access it it is still not high enough.
>
> I do not have a problem with online text books as
> long as each child has equal access to them.

Here is your equal access - GO GET A JOB TO PAY FOR IT. If you can't afford it, you don't get it. Or perhaps cancel the FIOS Conexion channels and free up some cash that way. Just because it exists, doesn't mean everyone it entitled to it.

I think poor people should not have kids but if they do I think their kids deserve the same as other kids to succeed.

Better to help them now then pay for their jail time later.

Middle, High School Textbooks Go Online
Social studies pilot deemed a success, will roll out to all students in grades 7 through 12.
By Nicole Trifone
http://fairfaxcity.patch.com/articles/middle-high-school-textbooks-go-online

Fairfax City middle and high school students will get access all of their textbooks online starting in the fall.

Fairfax County Public Schools announced Friday its plan to expand the pilot program for online social studies textbooks to all students in middle and high school this academic year.

The city's service contract with FCPS means this change will also be seen in Lanier Middle and Fairfax High schools, said Fairfax City Schools Superintendent Ann Monday.

FCPS plans to pay for the textbook license up front and make up for the costs by reducing per-pupil textbook funding for middle and high school students by $10.93 for the next six years. The funding is projected to be replenished by 2017.

For every 100 online subscriptions, FCPS will receive 30 hard copies of the textbook.

Online textbooks in core social studies courses — Advanced Placement and elective courses will use printed textbooks until online versions become available — were tested through a pilot program in the 2010-11 school year. Eighteen schools — eight middle, eight high and two alternative schools outside of Fairfax City — participated in the pilot.

"If the teachers were enthused about it, the kids were enthused about it. If the teachers weren't, the kids weren't," said Alice Reilly, FCPS social studies coordinator, who deemed the pilot a success overall. "It really identified a need for professional development for the teachers so they could become more comfortable with the technology as well as helping them shift their pedagogy to best instruction, so that's what we're going to do."

A professional development day on the topic has been scheduled for Aug. 31.

Peter Noonan, FCPS' assistant superintendent for instructional services, said a switch to online textbooks is inevitable as schools must respond to students being "digital natives" who are more and more infrequently gaining information from traditional books.

FCPS will begin to encourage students to bring their own laptops and technology to school. Currently, FCPS does not have a policy against it, but it is often discouraged.

For students who do not have their own laptops, the school will provide them with one. There is no set plan on how providing technology will work. FCPS is looking at other checkout systems in place — for musical instruments or calculators — as a model.

FCPS is confident 100 percent of students will have access to technology and the Internet during the school day. As for access away from school, FCPS is still working on a solution that would reach every student.

"Those students who don't have the access, we'll work very closely with their families privately to ensure they have the access necessary to get to a level playing field."

FCPS is looking at different types of broadband systems, wireless cards and allowing students to use computer labs before and after school.

FCPS discovered through the pilot that 92 percent of middle school students have computer access at home, .3 percent have no access and 73 percent say they can have access whenever they want it. For high school, the results are 88 percent with access at home, 1.5 percent have no access and 82 percent have access whenever they want it.

"That digital divide is not as great as we might think," Noonan said. "In that pilot, we had a very wide swath. We had alternative schools to schools in high poverty to some of our most affluent schools, and surprisingly the access didn't change."

As for worrying about whether students will be distracted by Facebook or other social networking sites during class, Noonan said FCPS is beyond that argument.

"It goes back to ... expectations," Noonan said. "Having been a classroom teacher myself, you say to kids, 'Here's the expectation. I'm going to trust but I'm also going to verify. So I'm going to be walking around.'"

Students sign an Acceptable Use Policy that addresses what they can and cannot do with the technology, and students will also be behind the FCPS firewall.

"Certainly the opportunity is there for distraction. I think it's not dissimilar to students writing notes," Noonan said. "I think the medium has changed, so there might be some notes written electronically instead of passing them through the rows."

While the technology itself may not currently allow for students to send virtual notes, it does provide several ways to take notes. Students have their own logins and can mark up the pages using highlighting and notes tools. They can zoom in on a map and calculate the distance between cities through a few clicks of the mouse. They can use an audio function to have the book read to them, or click on a keyword to pull up its definition.

The online textbook also provides ancillary materials that have typically been available to teachers only.

"I know many of our students when we've talked to them ... will say, 'When I have a textbook in front of me, and I have a question about what's in the textbook, my first stop is Google,'" Noonan said. "And [these extra resources] eliminate the need to go from a flat, hard textbook to a Google [document] that may or may not be accurate."

Because the online textbooks will be centrally purchased, which has not been the case with hard copies, every student will have access to the same materials. In the past, schools have been able to use their own discretion in deciding when to update to newer textbooks.



FCPS started the adoption process for online textbooks in mathematics this month. Adoption occurs every six years for one subject.

Schools that participated in online textbook pilot program

Middle schools: Glasgow, Hayfield, Hughes, Lake Braddock, Longfellow, Rocky Run, South County, Thoreau

High schools: McLean, Madison, Stuart, Hayfield, South County, Lake Braddock, Chantilly, South Lakes

Alternative schools: Bryant, Mountain View

7,937 students and 113 teachers participated


Middle and high school textbooks will be accessible online starting in the fall.Credit Courtesy of Flickr's "maia hopes" and Creative Commons
Attachments:

> For students who do not have their own laptops, the school will
> provide them with one.

lolwut

Can anyone else see a rash of lost, stolen,damaged lap tops?

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > For students who do not have their own laptops,
> the school will
> > provide them with one.
>
> lolwut

and

Duchess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone else see a rash of lost, stolen,damaged
> lap tops?

And who is expected to pay for these laptops? The Tax Payer? And yes I can see a rash of stolen, damaged, laptops.

I think that is the only fair thing to do. I am sure we have extra money since we just closed a school.

Concerned Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And who is expected to pay for these laptops?...

A small part of the savings from not using actual books should do it.

The Patch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> For students who do not have their own laptops,
> the school will provide them with one. There is no
> set plan on how providing technology will work.
> FCPS is looking at other checkout systems in place
> — for musical instruments or calculators — as
> a model.
>
> FCPS is confident 100 percent of students will
> have access to technology and the Internet during
> the school day. As for access away from school,
> FCPS is still working on a solution that would
> reach every student.
>
> "Those students who don't have the access, we'll
> work very closely with their families privately to
> ensure they have the access necessary to get to a
> level playing field."

So illegals can already walk in no questions asked and register for school. Just need that phony lease or utility bill. Sign up for free breakfast and lunch too. Now they get a laptop - can't have them on an unlevel playing field. Unbelievable.

man o man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Patch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > For students who do not have their own laptops,
> > the school will provide them with one. There is
> no
> > set plan on how providing technology will work.
> > FCPS is looking at other checkout systems in
> place
> > — for musical instruments or calculators —
> as
> > a model.
> >
> > FCPS is confident 100 percent of students will
> > have access to technology and the Internet
> during
> > the school day. As for access away from school,
> > FCPS is still working on a solution that would
> > reach every student.
> >
> > "Those students who don't have the access,
> we'll
> > work very closely with their families privately
> to
> > ensure they have the access necessary to get to
> a
> > level playing field."
>
> So illegals can already walk in no questions asked
> and register for school. Just need that phony
> lease or utility bill. Sign up for free breakfast
> and lunch too. Now they get a laptop - can't have
> them on an unlevel playing field. Unbelievable.

Hey, need to get those grades up! LOL

What is the saying, a failure to plan is a plan to fail.

I'd like to see the economic analysis of going to a subscription service versus just buying the books. If you buy a book, especially for a topic that does not change much, you can use it till it falls apart. If you buy an online service, you must pay each and every year, for each and every student that accesses it. No way you can defer textbook replacement a year if money is tight.

I'm sure there are great reasons for going online, but I doubt very much there is any cost savings in this. Plus if you save money on the cost of books, and then spend it on infrastructure like laptops, networks, etc. - what are you really saving.

Every single thing you used to buy and own is trying to find a way to turn that into just a license or monthly fee. Free TV to cable, CD's to iTunes, DVR's - list goes on. There is no way businesses are taking this approach because they make less money doing it this way.

I would much rather read an actual textbook with ink and paper than read through material on a computer screen. Plus, it's way too distracting to try to do serious studying/reading while on a laptop... much better to be isolated with just the textbook.

A Kindle is $114 - $139 and is designed for reading. Kids will be Facebook/Twittering through class with a laptop. Using a laptop as a textbook replacement is expensive and outdated.

On top of the hardware expense comes an IT infrastructure in the school that has to accommodate them, plus tech support. An e-reader is the way to go for book replacement, not a laptop.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Kindle is $114 - $139 and is designed for
> reading. Kids will be Facebook/Twittering through
> class with a laptop. Using a laptop as a textbook
> replacement is expensive and outdated.
>
> On top of the hardware expense comes an IT
> infrastructure in the school that has to
> accommodate them, plus tech support. An e-reader
> is the way to go for book replacement, not a
> laptop.

I find the yellow highlighters don't work as well on the Kindle screen.

"For students who do not have their own laptops, the school will provide them with one. There is no set plan on how providing technology will work. FCPS is looking at other checkout systems in place — for musical instruments or calculators — as a model."

That's a pretty big issue. Students from well-off families will have mack daddy laptops while others will have school issued laptops that will eventually be outdated and damaged. This is like giving poor students textbooks with missing pages. I'm sure there will be some ridicule involved for those kids whose parents can't afford to get them the latest tablet on the market. This initiative seems doomed to fail.

The only way to level the playing field is to give everyone the same FCPS issued laptop and not permit outside laptops. However, I have no idea how FCPS can afford this.

I agree that the e-reader may be the best solution.

Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention above - having kids with laptops in the classroom itself?? That doesn't pass the smell test.

I am not TOTALLY against the idea. In a small, local setting it might work. I think the City of Alexandria gave laptops to all HS students, but that is ONE school. Ditto some private schools.

But FCPS wants to be all things to all people. And it also gives them an excuse to add more staff to their already bloated Tech Staff & IT budget- look at the organizational chart for FCPS IT staff. Its way bigger than the County staff, its way bigger than some COUNTRIES.

The Kindle or Nook seems like a better way to go if you are going there. Also, if the teacher uses one copy to present to a class, that seems feasible. Does every student need an E-book to follow along? I think a print copy would do.

Print copies are often more costly than an E-book these days, but once publishers get their act together, they will restrict usage that will in some way bring them the bigger bang for their buck. Look at what Blockbuster just morphed into....

It seems that what's good Fairfax is good for South Korea as well!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/south-korea-moves-to-replace-paper-with-digital-textbooks-for-its-tech-savvy-students/2011/07/20/gIQAJtcMPI_story.html

(Or was this idea exported from South Korea along with their bad drivers?)

I think with closing of Clifton they now have some extra money floating around.

please stop complaining about an issue you know little about.

here's what you need to know: paper or online, kids still won't read it. seriously.

Just think of the online gaming possibilities. Kids are going to love this.

If all the books go online just buy your kid a Kindle.

The kids can't carry their backpacks from one class to another, so no laptop cases? Lockers are constantly being broken in. Will fcps reimburse us when his laptop is stolen?

I carry my backpack to each class. I do not have time between some classes to go back to my locker to get an extra book.

PS I love the Kindle idea.

Another point on laptops... as a household who would easily have the means to buy a laptop or netbook for a kid I still wouldn't do it if the schools are handing them out.

And they really do have to have some standardized hardware to have a prayer of supporting it.

The Fairfax County Library system participates in an ebook lending system, perhaps the school system could try something along those lines. Kids would "check out" their textbooks and the checkout can expire at the end of the year for the next class to take up. That system doesn't work with Kindle, but that's fine anyway as cheaper ebook readers can be had that do work with that system.

As to the point of ebooks being cheaper than print... well, they often aren't. Go check out any NYT bestseller and you'll see sometimes the ebook version actually costs more. Pair that observation with any experience you may have in a college bookstore with 100-page books costing $40 and you'll quickly conclude that the publishers aren't going to sell ebooks cheaply if it eats too much into revenue from printed books.

fox millite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The kids can't carry their backpacks from one
> class to another, so no laptop cases? Lockers are
> constantly being broken in. Will fcps reimburse
> us when his laptop is stolen?

Of course they will. Why should you ever have to shoulder the burden of life's misfortunes?

I found that Amazon already has a textbook-specific rental mechanism.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000702481

It seems to me a cheaper way for the county to go is offer rental credits to students that have Kindles, offsetting the cost by not buying as many hardcover books. And maybe they could partner with Amazon to offer student discounts for the Kindle, so parents could buy the larger-screen DX if they want their kid to have it.

This provides access to the materials for everyone, gradually lowers book purchasing costs while easing the student community into electronic books. Handing out laptops as an ebook solution is crazy.

The math classes at HS level include assignments that require a TI-83 or TI-84 graphing calculator. Those calculators cost close to $100 each. So far the schools provide them while the student is in the classroom. However, if the student has homework, the student must have access to one at home or whatever. Nobody says too much about this requirement.

I don't know what programs the county has for that, but others have a calculator rental program.

http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/nonProductSingle/tech_winterpark.html

I would rather get a discount on a Kindle and buy it myself since I do not trust FCPS.

If your child lost a FCPS Kindle god knows what punishment they would hand down.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what programs the county has for
> that, but others have a calculator rental
> program.
>
> http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/n
> onProductSingle/tech_winterpark.html


What kind of dip shit needs to rent a $100 calculator?

I didn't comment on who may or may not be able to afford it. But there are unemployed/underemployed people in the area, and half the households in the county are under the average household income. $100 may be hard to put together for some, it is a valid point and I posted a response.

If you have kids you should pay for them.

I hate people who want everyone else to take care of their kids.

Nothing in life is free.

We'll see if you back that up with some action and start up a campaign to begin charging tuition for public schools to make them totally fee-funded. Please post a link to your letter to an editor somewhere demanding that for all public-school-attending households in Fairfax County.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We'll see if you back that up with some action and
> start up a campaign to begin charging tuition for
> public schools to make them totally fee-funded.
> Please post a link to your letter to an editor
> somewhere demanding that for all
> public-school-attending households in Fairfax
> County.


Reading, writing, arithmetic. Everything else - band, sports, yearbook, bus, etc. - you should pay. Full cost too - none of the bs $100 fee for football. Club sports cost close to $1K per season in the real world, and that's playing on subsidized county fields. Imagine how much better the academic environnment would be if the costs associated with activities were plowed in real academic instruction.

Use it.

Plus band is gay.

c'mon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justsayin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know what programs the county has for
> > that, but others have a calculator rental
> > program.
> >
> >
> http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/n
>
> > onProductSingle/tech_winterpark.html
>
>
> What kind of dip shit needs to rent a $100
> calculator?


The kids who families can't/don't want to pay $100 for a graphing calculator, which, unless you graduated in 1967 or never passed the ninth grade, you would realize are pretty important in math these days.

My TI-89 was extremely useful throughout pre-calc/calculus in H.S. and then all of college (engineering). I was sad when it finally gave out after 10+ years.

Stop having kids if you are going to bitch about how much they cost.

I never even think about it. I just save and pay.

If everyone stops having kids, who is going to pay into Social Security for your retirement? Who is going to be your nurse in the retirement home? Get real. Paying for a kid to do well in math is going to benefit this economy! Go to other developed countries and see what they are providing for their kids. It's a LOT more than what we are providing. Not investing in kids is a bad idea. It's too late for the parents to not have the kids once the kids are here. Maybe you would rather adopt those kids than pay for the calculator???

I do pay for my kids. I just don't like others who are stupid and want us to pay for their mistakes.

Birth control is made for a reason. Use it.

I will take myself out before I am forced into a retirement home.

My son is addicted to computer gaming to the point where coupled with the sleeplessness side effects of his ADHD medicine he had a grand mal seizure. He was taken off his medicine and has been seizure free for 2 years. Having to do his homework on the computer is killing us. THere is no trust on our part anymore and no self control on his. 2 years ago the middle school openly suggested he is addicted to the computer games. This year he is a sophomore and went to his teacher and asked for a text because he really needs one. He goes to a tutor 3 x's a week and needs to take the text there because the center only has so many computers and they cannot provide them to everyone at once. The teacher said no he couldn't have one and she didn't know how he could get one! You would not believe how hard it was to get that text! I had to contact his case manager and wait forever for her to email me back the company info. I had to call the company twice because the 1st time they said the card would not go through and I got off the phone and ran to the store only to find that the credit card worked fine! On top of all the run around I paid $90 for the text! $90! No school discount there! THANK YOU FOR NOTHING FCPS!!!! I am not opposed to online texts but I am opposed to a kid being denied one when he asks for it-Especially now that I am reading that they were being given out for FREE!!!! Once again- NO TO ONLY ONLINE TEXTS WITH MINIMAL TEXTS GOING TO SCHOOLS-YES TO HAVING AN OPTION!!!! AND IF ANYONE IS GETTING A FREE TEXT THEN EVERYONE SHOULD BE GETTING A FREE TEXT IF THEY REQUEST IT!!!! Not just a select few. If the schools run out-let people submit their requests at the end of the year so the next year the school will have enough. THe internet is always going down people I can't believe everyone isn't nervous about being beholden to the internet to access their texts. Never let go of an option.

It sounds like you basically want someone else to raise your kid for free. "Addicted to video games"-- what crap! Of course video games are "addictive"--they are designed to be, by smart people who are paid alot of money to make them as "addictive" as possible.

Your job, if you care about your progeny, is to sit on your kid so he cant play them. Every day. If this means no pilates, or book club for you, then that's what that means.

The reality is, you're just as addicted as your kid--you're addicted to some image of your self that comes through the idiot box, and that is at odds with the one where you're sitting down with the kid every day and making him learn and keeping him out of trouble till he gets it.

Cause you know what the alternative is? your kid living in your basement till his forty, or just being homeless.

@paragrpahs - +1. Heck, +2.

@NoVA. How bout you keep yr kid away from tech for a bit. Maybe y'all should move to a more rural location if he's got an addiction to it. NOT. ROCKET. SCIENCE.

IF HE HAS AN ADDICTION TO SOMETHING, TRY AND KEEP HIM AWAY FROM IT!!!!!!

YES, you have an option. Prince William, Arlington, Loudoun, PG and MoCo right over the line...................................

FCPS was not ready for online textbooks. Not all classes have a hard copy of the book available as stated above. Some courses adopted a new text, and since they went online don't have old copies to issue to students. I teach one of these courses. I field complaints from students and parents all the time. Some kids want a copy of the book so they can read/study in the car, others have no internet access at home (or very limited since they have multiple siblings who also need to access the 1 family computer), others have language barriers and find it more difficult to use the online text. These requests have to be denied because the school system didn't provide funding to get books for all of these kids. Students are given an online subscription and not every classroom even has a class set of the books. What this ultimately results in is instructing students without the use of textbooks. This includes photocopying supplements and all kinds of graphic organizers, which means we are just spending more money on paper and coyping supplies.
The online book has a lot to offer in terms of animation, an audio option (where the book reads itself to you) and activities students can complete to help strengthen their understanding. But since not every kid can access these resources (and to be quite honest the struggling students tend to be those without the economic means to acquire access), it seems like a waste. Students do not bring their own laptops to school and the laptop lending program is very minimal and doesn't meet the needs of the population. The textbook also can't be accessed on an ereader (such as a kindle or nook) and is not formatted properly to be viewed on a smart phone. The long and short of it is that we weren't, as a school system, ready for this and kids are reading LESS than they used to (which five years ago I would have thought wasn't even possible). For those parents out there who want your student to have a book, find a way to purchase one or provide unlimited internet access on a computer for them. Also understand that teachers just don't have books to assign to kids...even though many of us wish we did.

@ paragraphs. I am not in a book club nor do I take a Pilates class. I run outside so I can save money to pay for my sons tutor. I have no idea why my workout resources are anyones business nor how I pay for other things in my families life. I have prioritized my kids education over everything-its exactly why I bought the text that everyone else is getting for FREEEEEEE!!!!!

My son does his homework and I check it everyday and I am not complaining about that. He is restricted from access to technology by not knowing passwords and all of our parental security settings are set. He actually does not have any access to computers at all unless he is doing his homework right in front of me. My complaint is that it states on FCPS website that if a student requests a textbook they will get one. He was DENIED and I had to PAY when others did NOT. Why should every family be forced online when it isn't the right choice for a family?! It has nothing to do with money it has to do with having the option to make the right choices for a family. Some people do learn better from a text!!!

@not ready for online books. Thank you for explaining. What you said about multiple siblings was going on in my house. We restored an old computer for my daughter and it solved the problem. But it had been a living nightmare when my son needed the book for the tutor. My son has an IEP and he needed that textbook.

If its a matter of choice of who gets what- the IEP kids should be prioritized first. If someone is being run around to their multiple activities, chances their parents can afford paying for that $90 text more than the parent who is saddled with the tutoring services. For a kid going to multiple activities with no learning problems-to request a text for "convenience" is ridiculous. It was a necessity for my son and he requested it so he could get more help for school not so he could do his work on the run so he could beef up his college apps.

NoVa,
At first I was going to say I had misjudged you, but several of your comments indicated that I didn't.

The fact your beef is that every one else is "getting [the text] for FREEEEE" is just entitlement bitching. Someone's paying for all those texts--me and the other taxpayers. And now you want us to pay double for something that's not even a disability. The reason you have to PAY when other did not is because you claim you cant use the perfectly good electronic text that they can.

Why can't you? because you didn't supervise your kid when he was getting "addicted" to video games. Now you want everyone to pay for something else to deal with the results of your mistakes. No thanks.

The final tip of is that you say he needs it to "beef up his college apps"

Are you kidding me? your kid can't do his homework without supervision and your worried about college? I guess that's another thing he's entitled to as well.

Get real. Unless your kid gets a firm dose of reality immediately, he's going to last less than 5 min in college. And I predict a very expensive 5 min, which I'm sure soon enough you'll be hitting up others to pay for. What a gigantic waste, all for the fantasy that these things are entitlements.

The state has an interest in educating your kid. Its not necessarily your interest. Your job is to make sure your interest and your kids interest are properly aligned (ie, you actually want whats best for him), not to try and make the state align with your interest.

My son was diagnosed as a toddler with sensory integration and coordination delays. We paid privately for an OT throughout preschool and elementary school,
In elementary school he was diagnosed with ADD and possibly mild autism/aspergers syndrome. We opted to medicate him. He had a grand mal seizure. A grand mal is when they pass out and start convulsing. It was a big one. The pediatric neurologist recommended he be med. free for a few years to make sure he does not have another seizure. He also supported the original diagnosis of Mild autism or aspergers syndrome. His final conclusion was that he felt the side effects from the medicine coupled with the computer triggered the seizure.

Our son has an IEP with the school and a case manager. His IEP is very light and does not get consistently adhered to by the school. I am not complaining. Merely stating a fact. I know they are overworked and very busy. He is in no special ed. classes. Only a few team taught. His case manager does not meet with him on a regular basis. Heck she doesn't meet with him at all. So, basically, he is not a burden to anyone else by taking up any extra resources. He is restricted from the computer at home completely unless he is doing homework. My husband and I work full time to make ends meet and spend all of our time sitting on him to stay focused and stick with it. Because we do this, he continues to improve and it was his idea to ask for the textbook and thought the computer was not the best choice for him to learn math at the tutor. He works very hard for his grades that are a few B's and C's at this point. He loves us and wants us to be proud of him. He is really grateful that he is getting help in Math and knows that we are financially strapped trying to pay for it. We have no money in our budget for anything else and are just making ends meet.

My comment about "beefing up college apps" was NOT referring to my son. I was referring to the children of other families that are wealthier than mine that have received these books so they can do their homework in the car. They are involved in alot of various activities so their college apps present well and I think that is great. But I think that if they want to do their homework in the car they can buy their books.
I apologize about saying the books are free. You are right. They are not free. But you did not buy my sons book. I did. I pay taxes too. So, I paid $90 dollars for a book for my son and then I paid taxes to provide a book to a wealthier family so their child could do their homework in the car on the way to activities. I know this for a fact because I see it and know the families.

Sorry,that just does not seem right.

Also, we have 2 other kids who get great grades and play sports and they do their homework when they get home. They are doing this by learning to "manage their time."
They would not even think to ask the county to provide them with a book so they could do their homework in the car.

Insurance did not cover any of our sons testing or doctors visits all these years. We paid privately -and we had no money left over for anything. THere was no help from the schools. Again I am not complaining about this but just wanted to clarify that you haven't paid anything more for my son than you or I have paid for anyone else"s kid.

paragraphs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone's paying for all
> those texts--me and the other taxpayers. And now
> you want us to pay double for something that's not
> even a disability. The reason you have to PAY when
> other did not is because you claim you cant use
> the perfectly good electronic text that they can.
>
>

The reason she had to pay was that the electronic math texts are horrible.

http://vienna.patch.com/articles/online-math-textbooks-rankle-teachers-parents

NoVa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His IEP is very light
> He is in no special ed. classes. Only a few team taught.
> So, basically, he is not a burden to anyone else by
> taking up any extra resources.

If he not in special ed classes, and is able to function at B/C level with no support, he does not need the hard copy of the textbook.

> My husband and I work full time to make ends meet

> We have no money in our budget for
> anything else and are just making ends meet.

Perhaps you should not have had children that you cannot afford, or monitor properly to keep them from getting addicted to video games.

Listen folks, people have already had the kids. It's too late to argue about how someone should or should not have had kids. That's a worthless discussion. What needs to be argued is how to help these kids become productive citizens in a country that is failing. These kids are not at fault in any of this. If we ALL show them that we care about them, we might get results. It can't be just the parents---although, yes, they need to care the most. The whole society needs to realize that other people are important (not be so selfish). We are all connected to each other. Just because someone is not rich does not mean they would not care about kids and be good parents. If we rely on only the rich to have kids, there will be nobody out there to produce for our future. Plenty of our most productive members of society came from humble beginnings. If they had not been born because their parents could not "afford" them, we would be a much poorer nation. Believe me, being "middle class" is getting to be difficult and even the "middle class" may not be able to afford kids. What we do for the most vulnerable and needy is what shows who we are as a nation. Apparently we are a nation that is self centered and could care less about our less fortunate brothers and sisters. This kind of a discussion is sickening to me. We can't give a kid a textbook? Come on. It's not a cell phone or an Ipad folks. We all had textbooks.

Solutions, not finger pointing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen folks, people have already had the kids.
> It's too late to argue about how someone should or
> should not have had kids. That's a worthless
> discussion. What needs to be argued is how to
> help these kids become productive citizens in a
> country that is failing. These kids are not at
> fault in any of this. If we ALL show them that we
> care about them, we might get results. It can't
> be just the parents---although, yes, they need to
> care the most. The whole society needs to realize
> that other people are important (not be so
> selfish). We are all connected to each other.
> Just because someone is not rich does not mean
> they would not care about kids and be good
> parents. If we rely on only the rich to have
> kids, there will be nobody out there to produce
> for our future. Plenty of our most productive
> members of society came from humble beginnings.
> If they had not been born because their parents
> could not "afford" them, we would be a much poorer
> nation. Believe me, being "middle class" is
> getting to be difficult and even the "middle
> class" may not be able to afford kids. What we do
> for the most vulnerable and needy is what shows
> who we are as a nation. Apparently we are a
> nation that is self centered and could care less
> about our less fortunate brothers and sisters.
> This kind of a discussion is sickening to me. We
> can't give a kid a textbook? Come on. It's not a
> cell phone or an Ipad folks. We all had
> textbooks.

+1

Well said!

Kinda wondering what a well spoken, rational, compassionate person like you is doing on a forum like this...we need more like you, though! ;)

Thank you for agreeing. I have spent a good part of my life (25 years and counting) out there in the trenches helping kids (and I know what the families go through). I get annoyed by people who have absolutely no dealings with kids and who think they are experienced to make decisions regarding them (and that includes some of the people in Gatehouse). I am still out in the trenches (my decision) because I think it's where I can have the greatest impact on a day to day basis. I just wish there were more people who appreciated the complex situations that exist with families and kids. Unfortunately, common sense is pretty uncommon these days.

@ Solutions: The kids are all given textbooks, provided by the county. They are just the online version. It costs about $90/book to buy hard copies of textbooks. Are you willing to see your taxes raised so that hard copies of textbooks can be bought and provided to all these students who either feel they have a need for one or just want one for convenience? Students who have it written into their IEP or 504 that they need a hard copy of a textbook are provided one (often at the detriment of books being available in the classrooms for student use). Like it or not, the county has invested the money into purchasing the online texts, and training teachers and other staff in the online texts. Face it, they are here and not going anywhere. So for all the problems associated with the online texts, students (and parents) will need to figure out a way to make it work.

@Learn to adapt: Yes, I understand that we are left to figure things out. I just hope that the powers that be have figured some things out from this as well. It certainly should not be the case that any students do not have books available in their classrooms because of the needs of IEP and 504 students. Is there a computer available in the room in that case (for accessing the online version of the textbook)? Or is it up to the students to bring in their own device and figure out how to pay for that? No wonder so many students try to get an IEP or a 504.

I am not one who believes that the public has to put up with bad decisions by publicly paid employees. With decisions like these, it won't be long before there will not be tax money to pay for the people who make these decisions and that may be how the problem gets solved. The arrogance of people in power . . . "like it or not" and ""face it" is not endearing to those of us who pay taxes and feel that we should have a say. I don't believe that students and parents are just making things up when they say they have a hard time using the computer or don't have access, etc. I do believe that public officials are paid to serve the public and not the other way around. Telling people that they don't have a choice only makes them feel unheard and unimportant and makes them wonder why they pay any taxes at all.

@ choice matters: I agree that the public needs to speak out if there is an issue with a policy decision. As a tax payer and a long-time educator who watches my student population struggle with the online textbooks I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate issues and challenges for many students (some of mine are living independently and have no access to technology, some have problems using an online text, etc.) There are not enough books left after IEP and 504 needs are met so that every student can use a textbook in the classroom. There are not computers available in the classrooms. That is just the fact of the matter. As teachers, we adapt as necessary, and it would just be nice if students and parents took that same approach. So by all means complain to the powers that be (I would personally love it if we had books to issue to students who wanted them), but in the mean time students will just need to learn to budget their time, make a plan to access resources (such as Internet access at local libraries or utilize late-bus days at their schools) and keep the communication with their teachers open. No matter what the public perception is of teachers, most of us work with students who have extreme circumstances.

learn to adapt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No matter what the public
> perception is of teachers, most of us work with
> students who have extreme circumstances.

I'm not in extreme circumstances, so I bought a hard copy text for my kid. Why? The online math texts FCPS bought are bad.

The essential problem is online is a different medium from hard copy. Good implementation for online takes real work. Page images of hard copy texts are just Pearson's cheap/short cut way to offer online texts while they figure it out.

As discussed in several recent articles about online classes, online texts/online classes are just emerging and text designers/course designers haven't figured out what really works. Good, engaging, built for online course implementations with well motivated, well prepared students appear to work well, but there are currently many more bad than good ones.

FCPS' administration jumped into this murky environment with both feet, with our tax dollars, bought a bad one, and it's somehow the parents'/kids' problem to deal with it.

I go to one of the better high schools in the county, and we are required to use the online textbook in precalculus classes. I understand that hard copies of books may be more expensive, but they are also much easier to use and more convenient. Many of the online programs are still in the developmental stages and crash often. It can take me upwards of 3 hours to do a homework assignment because the book takes so long to load. In addition, it is just not practical for many students to be able to focus on a computer screen for extended periods of time; especially for those students who have desktop computers and not laptops.

I would not have so much of a problem if students were able to print pages of the book. Often on the weekends I go to lacrosse tournaments and I like to get homework done between games, but there is no way to print off pages of the book so that I can take them with me, and there certainly isn't a decent wifi connection at a random field in the middle of nowhere. The book is confusing and frustrating and my teacher is working very hard against it, but unfortunately a 6 year contract was signed so I don't think online textbooks will be going away anytime soon.

This situation will generate lots of sales of the hard copies. Maybe in future years the used hard copies will come up for sale somewhere so at least folks can get a deal on a used copy from a friend or neighbor. Maybe the schools will start charging for textbooks like they do in countries like Mexico where kids have to pay for their books in the public schools (since it seems that schools can no longer afford textbooks).

They are already charging for textbooks here.

what an entitled white privileged thing to say. I find it hard to believe that ADULTS are posting on this site. Just because this site allows people to post anonymously doesn't mean you should feel the urge to unleash your inner douche bag tendencies. I realize I am responding to something that was posted years ago but I don't care. I have lived in this area my entire life but I don't act like an idiot like the rest of you dumb entitled crackers.

To: Get real Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think poor people should not have kids but if
> they do I think their kids deserve the same as
> other kids to succeed.
>
> Better to help them now then pay for their jail
> time later.


We do both, actually.

I have taught math for the past 13 years in a private school in northern VA.
Each year, my students receive a hardback copy of the textbook and also access to the online textbook. At the end of each year, I poll the students to see which version they liked and used most. Year after year, 98-100% of my students emphatically state they like/need/want the hardcopy textbook. The online version is great for providing additional practice, but when it comes to actual learning, the hardback textbook wins overwhelmingly. Parents agree. I am not impressed with the push for online textbooks; it shortchanges the students.

Online textbooks (good ones like Discovery Techbooks)is not the problem. A problem is that the teachers park the kids in front of the screen, toss some worksheets at them and check the answers with a very convenient answer key provided that leaves no room for any subjectivity of teachers, zero discussion or critical thinking. I saw what was happening & took my kid out of the school. I'm disgusted by the by the lack of teaching and the preponderance of reliance on pre-made curriculum with canned "correct" answers. Too many parents rely so heavily on supposed integrity of the curriculum makers & administrators-maybe because they had a positive experience themselves growing up.
There are lots of parents who KNOW that something isn't right & even speak up, but are blown off.
I've talked to many parents though, who are bought hook,line & sinker by bumper sticker slogans & can't be bothered to dig deeper.