HomeFairfax General ForumArrest/Ticket SearchWiki newPictures/VideosChatArticlesLinksAbout
Fairfax County General :  Fairfax Underground fairfax underground logo
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Pages: 123AllNext
Current Page: 1 of 3
Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: fourloko ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:17PM

The Rupp family is suing four loko for the wrongful death of their son Bo Rupp. They claim that fusion products had knowledge of the dangers of the product and shouldn't have sold the drink in the first place.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: tacgnol ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:19PM

Please, tell me more



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2011 10:21PM by tacgnol.
Attachments:
tellmemore.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:23PM

Of course it was the booze that made him play in traffic. Why, just the other day, I had a couple tequila shots and stabbed a hobo. I'm suing Jose Cuervo.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Enough ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:25PM

Leave the Rupp family alone they are still in a time of mourning over the death of their son and they are in the grieving stage where they become sue crazy and will sue anyone to make money off of their son
Attachments:
you are next.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: tacgnol ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:29PM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course it was the booze that made him play in
> traffic. Why, just the other day, I had a couple
> tequila shots and stabbed a hobo. I'm suing Jose
> Cuervo.


Hey same here man, except i slept with a hooker, and didn't pay her. Was it shoplifting or rape?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 19, 2011 10:34PM

People they forgot to sue:

Jiffy Lube Live
WMZQ
Fairfax County
Commonwealth of Virginia
God
Satan
Inkahootz

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 19, 2011 10:39PM

it's disgusting how people can sue for their dumb ass son doing dumb ass shit... i'll go lay down in the middle of the road and sue costco for their milk... brb

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: The mom ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:43PM

I saw on the news a clip of the mom during a press conference. She said that she was confident that if her son had celebrated with another type of alcohol, he probably would have just passed out and would still be alive today.

The kid was what, 15? 16? Are you f'n kidding me? Are we really at this point when it comes to personal responsibility?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: bigthoughts ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:52PM

I definitely think that suing is right and I don't agree that the parents are 100% responsible for their kids actions.

Some kids can be tougher than others, and some kids will be great all the way up until today and then tomorrow go out and do something ridiculously stupid.

The only thing that is 100% in this is the kid is gone and it would be a horrible thing to experience as a parent, family member, or friend.

The parents would probably get some kind of closure much quicker if they would just let him rest in peace. At this point money will not heal their hearts or bring them internal peace. They are probably desperate to make the pain go away. This law suit is not taking them in the right direction.

I hope, as a parent, I never have to experience anything close to this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: bigthoughts ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:53PM

woooah.. I meant in the first line to say:
I definitely think that suing is NOT NOT NOT NOT right

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 19, 2011 10:54PM

serves you right for not registering.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Your Boy ()
Date: May 19, 2011 10:55PM

What ever happened to hurricanes and old e's thats what we drank when we were 15

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 19, 2011 11:03PM

jesus...it is being featured on Channel 4 right now.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 19, 2011 11:10PM

reminds me of that dad of one of the girls that was drunk and high on the Inner Loop, cut off that trucker at the Mixing Bowl back when it was newly redone - wanted to sue VDOT and the trucker, y'all remember....................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: It reminds me ()
Date: May 19, 2011 11:27PM

of the families of high school kids who off themselves and then blame FCPS because the kid got punished at school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: varunner ()
Date: May 20, 2011 12:50AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: But ()
Date: May 20, 2011 06:21AM

The mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw on the news a clip of the mom during a press
> conference. She said that she was confident that
> if her son had celebrated with another type of
> alcohol, he probably would have just passed out
> and would still be alive today.
>
> The kid was what, 15? 16? Are you f'n kidding me?
> Are we really at this point when it comes to
> personal responsibility?


But he did pass out, in the middle of the street

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Clark Kent ()
Date: May 20, 2011 06:29AM

Here's a copy of the statement from the company...

"Statement by Phusion Projects:

"We are extremely saddened by this tragedy and our thoughts are with the Rupp family. This accident, and others like it, speak to the serious, societal concerns regarding the misuse of alcohol - alcohol abuse and underage drinking are problems we would all like to see discussed and solved.
We work very hard to ensure our products are consumed safely and responsibly by adults over the age of 21, and we have a vested interest - both personal and professional - in assuring the continued responsible consumption of our products. We are staunch supporters of the need for increased education, stronger enforcement of existing laws and personal responsibility. Those that sell or provide alcohol to minors should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

"In November 2010, we voluntarily reformulated all of our products and have since produced only versions of Four Loko that do not contain caffeine, guarana, or taurine. Please find the press release here with more information about the reformulation.

"We are in the process of reviewing the complaint. It is important to remember that because a complaint is filed, doesnt mean the allegations in it have merit. We plan to defend this case in the courts rather than in the press, and we will do so vigorously."


Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/virginia/virginia-family-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit-against-makers-of-four-loko-051911#ixzz1Mt4HGFRD

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Duhhhhh ()
Date: May 20, 2011 06:56AM

As someone who has kids, and sells Four Loko... this is f'ing ridiculous.

If there's ANYONE to blame for an underage kid getting so hammered he passes out in the middle of the street it's the kid, then the parents and then whoever gave him the Four Loko.

As for Four Loko itself... the uproar over it is almost just a f'ing ridiculous. There are a number of products still in the marketplace that combine energy & alcohol. Sparks was around for years before Four Loko and is still around in the same mixture after Four Loko has come and gone.

IMO, Four Loko just didn't make the proper campaign contributions and that's why they have been singled out/targeted and railroaded into doing something NONE of those other products have been forced to do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Boo hoo ()
Date: May 20, 2011 07:08AM

So, now these friends of Bo are going to be faced with getting on the stand and either 1) Lying under oath, or 2) Telling the truth that Bo's intentions were to "show his parents" and that he intentionally sat down in the middle of the street, and didn't pass out like they are claiming.

This just goes from the ridiculous to the sublime. If they were so god damned concerned about their son, why didn't they call the police when they knew he was out of control and ran off?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: If he had just stayed smoking pot he would be here ()
Date: May 20, 2011 07:34AM

Stoners hardly ever leave the couch.

Plus it is all natural.

It is sad he died. Kids do make bad choices. As far as trying to sue I think it may be a long shot. Unless they can get a group of parents whose kids have died I think they have a slim chance.

My question is why he was at Jiffy Pop without a parent?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Maroons ()
Date: May 20, 2011 07:39AM

Four loco should sue the parents for dragging the brand name thru the mud. THEIR underage kid drank the stuff illegally. The parents picked his drunk ass up from the concert, they took him home and then THEY lost control of the kid.

Is the whole episode tragic? Most definitely.

But the parents are looking to blame the wrong people. Blame their Son and his dumb ass friends who contributed to this fiasco.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 20, 2011 08:04AM

next they are gonna sue VDOT for building the road in the first place........................

how some ppl see the death of their child as a lottery jackpot is beyond me o_0

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: always a show ()
Date: May 20, 2011 08:15AM

The mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw on the news a clip of the mom during a press
> conference. She said that she was confident that
> if her son had celebrated with another type of
> alcohol, he probably would have just passed out
> and would still be alive today.
>
> The kid was what, 15? 16? Are you f'n kidding me?
> Are we really at this point when it comes to
> personal responsibility?


Welcome to the distorted values of the Virginia Run communuity

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: commonsense ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:05AM

I saw this on the news yesterday. I simply can't believe where we are as a society now. There is literally zero personal responsibility on anyone's part. I also can't stand some parents. Although I'm sorry for the family's personal loss, please face the reality that your son made a bad decision. He unfortunately in this case lost his life as a result of it. If we continue down this illogical path of blame, where does the responsibility end?!! How about suing because the painted lane lines did not give enough of a shoulder on the side of the road for him to sit drunk, suing the car manufacturer because it was one of their cars that hit your son, suing the police department because they should have been around to stop him, suing VDOT because there was too much traffic at that time on the roadway, suing the market that sold the four loco in the first place?! Your son made a decision that had the ultimate consequence, quit trying to blame anyone else but your son.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 20, 2011 09:44AM

This is a result of out litigious society. Sue anybody you can who has more than two dimes to rub together. Lawyers work on contingency so its usually a safe bet for any lawyer to represent a plaintiff in a wrongful death case - naming as many people as you can.

4loko was named. But expect JiffyLube and Live Nation to be named too. Guarantee the parents will allege that Mr. Road pizza was served a beer by concert vendors. Raceway will be sued too - where 4loko was bought.....

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Ambulance Chaser ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:44AM

If they can sue 4Loco I am suing any alcoholic beverage that is mixed with coke. 4Loco was an alcohol drink mixed with caffine. Same as a rum and coke, no difference at all.

BTW hoping someone will pass out is no promise of an easy time. More than a few people have passed out while drunk then choked to death on their own vomit or just outright died of alcohol poisoning.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:54AM

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reminds me of that dad of one of the girls that
> was drunk and high on the Inner Loop, cut off that
> trucker at the Mixing Bowl back when it was newly
> redone - wanted to sue VDOT and the trucker, y'all
> remember....................

NBC4's news story about that Mixing Bowl accident showed a clip of someone scrolling through a Fairfaxunderground thread about the girl.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/37931/38019.html

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:57AM

@ Pinhead and all

it's worst than you think

http://www.legalreforminthenews.com/wwl_11/wwl_11_mainmenu.html

they actually hold a yearly contest for the stupid warning labels that companies put on products sold in the US - and the other countries goof on us for being for butt-fucking-stupid....................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:58AM

the bicycle one is my favorite this year

LoLz

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Yabels ()
Date: May 20, 2011 12:31PM

4Loko has REMOVED all of the shit that made it not a "conventional" alcoholic drink. It is basically a cheap-ass bum wine like MD 20/20. There's NO difference between 4Loko and wine/beer at this point.

And to that point, the whole fiasco over 4Loko was totally blown out of proportion to begin with. The reason those kids got alcohol poisoning was because they used 4Loko as the MIXER for a vodka "jungle juice" or "party punch", etc. They didn't go to the hospital just by drinking a bunch of 4Loko. Granted, I'm sure you could get alcohol poisoning from just drinking 4Loko, but ANY booze can do that! Jesus, society is so fucking stupid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: This is all the lawyers fault ()
Date: May 20, 2011 12:42PM

If only the people who bring about bogus lawsuits had to pay the legal fees on the whole suit this would not happen.

I know the reason we can't do this is so poor people can sue too. Plus other reasons too. But you get my drift.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: THE TRUTH ()
Date: May 20, 2011 12:53PM

You are all missing the big picture here. The caffine and other ingredients in the Four Loko is detrimental to health of anyone who drank it. Not even the most experienced drinkers can not handle 2 or more of these drinks. The mix of caffine and alcohol give mixed signals to the body as caffine is essentially an upper while alcohol is a depressent. So the caffine is masking the effects of alcohol on the body. All over the country people are getting alcohol posioning from something like this. Being 15 his body could not handle one let alone two of these drinks. If anything the family is saving anyone who drinks this by having the company change the formula for how the drinks are made.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: I agree ()
Date: May 20, 2011 12:58PM

This nasty stuff should be taken off the market. A little goes a long way and do we really need this stuff hawked to our kids?

Yes he was stupid to drink it but he should not have died from it.

Young kids make mistakes. Just be glad it was not your child.

PS I would make sure you tell your kids not to drink and not to drink 4 Loco.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:08PM

THE TRUTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are all missing the big picture here. The
> caffine and other ingredients in the Four Loko is
> detrimental to health of anyone who drank it. Not
> even the most experienced drinkers can not handle
> 2 or more of these drinks. The mix of caffine and
> alcohol give mixed signals to the body as caffine
> is essentially an upper while alcohol is a
> depressent. So the caffine is masking the effects
> of alcohol on the body. All over the country
> people are getting alcohol posioning from
> something like this. Being 15 his body could not
> handle one let alone two of these drinks. If
> anything the family is saving anyone who drinks
> this by having the company change the formula for
> how the drinks are made.

Absolute horseshit. Four Loko is around 20 proof. Compare that to a Red Bull and vodka that many, many people drink. When's the last time you heard of someone getting alcohol poisoning from a Red Bull and vodka?

As other people mentioned, the Four Loko being sold now is not the same Four Loko that was initially put on the market.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 20, 2011 01:23PM

THE TRUTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are all missing the big picture here. The
> caffine and other ingredients in the Four Loko is
> detrimental to health of anyone who drank it. Not
> even the most experienced drinkers can not handle
> 2 or more of these drinks. The mix of caffine and
> alcohol give mixed signals to the body as caffine
> is essentially an upper while alcohol is a
> depressent. So the caffine is masking the effects
> of alcohol on the body. All over the country
> people are getting alcohol posioning from
> something like this. Being 15 his body could not
> handle one let alone two of these drinks. If
> anything the family is saving anyone who drinks
> this by having the company change the formula for
> how the drinks are made.

They have already changed the formula. Therefore the case is moot. In any event, if the goal is to have the drink formula changed, why are damages being sought?

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:25PM

Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have already changed the formula. Therefore
> the case is moot. In any event, if the goal is to
> have the drink formula changed, why are damages
> being sought?

And why are they suing the drink maker instead of the person who gave it to Rupp?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Maybe if ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:34PM

Perhaps if society didnt treat alcohol as some taboo and educated their kids about the effects and yes the hazards. Instead we have stupid laws that make it a criminal offense to not drink until you are 21. At 18 you can buy a car, a home, a shotgun or join the military. And yet you cannot have a beer.

Society has made it such an off limits thing that kids dont have any idea what will happen when they do drink. Instead they start chugging one drink after another, not knowing that the effects take time and in some cases by then it is too late.

Alcohol like many other things in life requires moderation and education. These problems wont be solved by some stupid Just Say No programs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:42PM

Where was this suit filed? I'd assume Fairfax Circuit court since I'm gonna bet that the Rupps (in their effort to change the formula) are demanding more than $15,000 in damages. I'll see if I can pull the docket and the complaint....

This should be interesting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:47PM

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where was this suit filed? I'd assume Fairfax
> Circuit court since I'm gonna bet that the Rupps
> (in their effort to change the formula) are
> demanding more than $15,000 in damages. I'll see
> if I can pull the docket and the complaint....
>
> This should be interesting.




Cook County Illinois, since that is where the Phusion Projects company is located.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 01:47PM by eesh.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: DA ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:48PM

Cook County in Chicago

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: WT ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:50PM

What about the fact that the death certificate states Suicide since he was running in the road and informed his friends that he was going to do it?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:54PM

Ahh, at least they were smart enough to file in the proper state jurisdiction. I doubt that Phusion products has a legal representative in Virginia.

Here's the docket summary. No go on the actual docket as you'd need a person there to get it.... C'est la vie.

Source: CIRCUIT COURT, COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS

CASE INFORMATION

Case Title: RUPP JOHN v. PHUSION PROJECTS LLC
Court: CIRCUIT COURT, COOK COUNTY
Division: LAW DIVISION FIRST MUNICIPAL / CITY
Case Number: 2011-L-002726
Case Type: CIVIL
Case Subtype: PERSONAL INJURY (PRODUCT LIABILITY)
Key Nature of Suit: TORTS/NEGLIGENCE; PERSONAL INJURY (430.75)
Key Nature of Suit: TORTS/NEGLIGENCE; PRODUCT LIABILITY (430.85)
Date Filed: 03/11/2011

Judge:
Judge:
WILLIAM MADDUX
KATHY M FLANAGAN
Claim/Demand Amount: $50,001.00
Case Status: PENDING

PARTICIPANT INFORMATION

Name: RUPP JOHN
Type: PLAINTIFF
Firm Name: COONEY ROBT J & ASSOC
Firm Address: 120 N LASALLE ST 30F
CHICAGO, IL 60602
Firm Phone: 312-236-6166

Name: RUPP JOHN DONAL III EST
Type: PLAINTIFF

Name: RUPP KARLA
Type: PLAINTIFF

Name: PHUSION PROJECTS LLC
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: CITY BREWING CO LLC
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: EL HADDAD EMILE
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: FREEMAN JAISEN
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: HUNTER CHRIS
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: JF FICK INC
Type: DEFENDANT
Firm Name: TRIBLER ORPETT & MEYER PC
Firm Address: 225 W WASHNGTN#1300
CHICAGO, IL 60606
Firm Phone: 312-201-6400

Name: RACE TRACK PETROLEUM IN
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: RACE WAY 6788
Type: DEFENDANT

Name: WRIGHT JEFF
Type: DEFENDANT

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Ut videam ()
Date: May 20, 2011 01:56PM

Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4loko was named. But expect JiffyLube and Live
> Nation to be named too. Guarantee the parents will
> allege that Mr. Road pizza was served a beer by
> concert vendors. Raceway will be sued too - where
> 4loko was bought.....

Not yet on JLL and Live Nation. But Raceway's on there.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 20, 2011 01:58PM

Who are all the defendants? Are they his friends or something? I see Raceway got tagged. Nice.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Ut videam ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:01PM

JF FICK INC is the Anheuser-Busch wholesaler and distributor that serves those parts.

Looks like Jeff Wright, Chris Hunter, and Jaisen Freeman are the originators of Four Loko:

http://www.bsudailynews.com/mobile/2.14292/alcoholic-energy-drink-launches-in-village-area-across-college-campuses-1.2012913

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:17PM

Yep, the individuals (at least some of them) appear to be the founders of Four Loko. So, they're being nailed as being liable owners. JF Fick is apparently a Virginia distributor of the stuff. If I were JF Fick's lawyer, I'd move to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction. They're not in Illinois, and have minimal (if any) contacts with Illinois. Classic civil procedure. The other option for JF Fick would be to motion that the case be moved to the Federal District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.

I'm not sure what the corporate status of Racetrac. If they don't have any stores in Illinois, they too might be able to move to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction.

The dismissals would pertain to JF Fick and Racetrac only. Four Loko is on the hook regardless owing to the fact that it's situated in Illinois and clearly subject to personal jurisdiction in Illinois.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: CivPro ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:30PM

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The other option for JF Fick would be to motion
> that the case be moved to the Federal District
> Court for the Northern District of Illinois.

Does the issue concern a matter of federal law?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:30PM

Follow-up: interesting, looks like Racetrac has totally taken itself out of the mid-Atlantic. You'd be hard pressed to find one north of Georgia.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: gas monkey ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:35PM

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Follow-up: interesting, looks like Racetrac has
> totally taken itself out of the mid-Atlantic.
> You'd be hard pressed to find one north of
> Georgia.

Contractor-operated stores are called RaceWay instead of RaceTrac

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:37PM

CivPro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ITRADE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > The other option for JF Fick would be to
> motion
> > that the case be moved to the Federal District
> > Court for the Northern District of Illinois.
>
> Does the issue concern a matter of federal law?

Federal courts do not deal with solely questions of Federal law. Federal courts can and do entertain state issues on the basis of "diversity" jurisdiction - that is parties in different states or jurisdictions and the case or controversy involves claimed damages of over $75,000 per 28 U.S.C. §1332(a).

Of course, diversity could be trashed as it applies to JF Fick and because JF Fick is likely a Virginia entity - as are the plaintiffs.

RaceTrac and Four Loko would represent "complete diversity". Four Loko is probably a Delaware or Illinois corporation with significant business interests in Illinois and RaceTrac is probably also a Delaware and (some southern state) corporation and does not currently have any interests in Virginia (although it did at the time of the incident).

Of course, diversity is a function of "subject matter" jurisdiction as opposed to personal jurisdiction. I am still wondering how the Rupp's attorneys have concluded that RaceTrac and JF Fick are subject to personal jurisdiction in Illinois.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 02:40PM by ITRADE.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: CivPro ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:39PM

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, diversity could be trashed as it
> applies to JF Fick and because JF Fick is likely a
> Virginia entity - as are the plaintiffs.

Now you see my point.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:42PM

So, sever or dismiss JF Fick and proceed with the rest - the issue of RaceTrac/RaceWay being unresolved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: CIvPro ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:48PM

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, sever or dismiss JF Fick and proceed with the
> rest - the issue of RaceTrac/RaceWay being
> unresolved.


But then IL would not be the proper venue because of RaceTrac.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 02:51PM

I'm still trying to find something definitive on RaceTrac.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: May 20, 2011 03:03PM

https://w3.courtlink.lexisnexis.com/cookcounty/Finddock.asp?DocketKey=CABB0L0AACHCG0LD

Found the actual Cook County docket.

Mmkay, they named both JF Fick and RaceWay 6877. So, complete diversity is dead if you were to try to bring in all the parties. RaceTrac is probably not a Virginia entity, but I bet that JF Fick, Raceway 6877 and I'll bet that "Jeff Wright" are.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Carene Williams ()
Date: May 20, 2011 08:22PM

On the 1st January,2010, My Dearly Loved Son, Daniel Jason Williams. (My Danny Boy) age 37, was found dead in his apartment on his bed, with FOUR EMPTY FOUR LOKO CANS BESIDE HIS BED, IN EUGENE OREGON. THE DEATH CERTIFICATE READ, DEATH BY SUICIDE. MY HEART IS STILL BROKEN, I AM STILL DEVASTATED, AND IN DEEP GRIEF. MOST PEOPLE who have never had something like this happen to them are idiots.!!!!!!AND HAVE NO COMPASSION WHATSOEVER. Danny left FOUR CANS OF FOUR LOCO IN THE REFRIGERATOR, I WOULD SAY FOR ME, because we were VERY DEPRESSED OVER LIFE IN THE WONDERFUL U.S.A. I still have the empty cans. Thank you, Carlene June Williams. email cloudsntrees@msn.com

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Ut videam ()
Date: May 20, 2011 08:45PM

Carene Williams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still have the empty cans.

So you drank the four he left in the fridge for you?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: To the Williams family ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:32PM

I am sorry for your grief.

How did you find this thread? Are you in Oregon?

You should try and sue four loco too.

Please do not read the comments on here by others. It is not really an obit site.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Who is Jeff Wright? ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:34PM

Is he a friend of the boy who died?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Ut videam ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:36PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Thanks ()
Date: May 20, 2011 09:43PM

So they came up with the idea to make a drink where if you drink four cans it will kill you or you will go crazy. I mean they named it Four Loco for a reason.

Guilty.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 20, 2011 10:48PM

@Thanks - yeah, 4 cans will kill you......................IDIOT!

I'm betting the Williams kid had more in his system than just Four Loko.

Vodka and Whiskey - A-OK!

Four Loko - baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

LoLz


and to answer the obligatory "Gordon, you suck, you'd feel differently if it was your kids" post, let me point out that my kids will know, like I knew from my parents, that I'd better MAKE SURE I DIE if I get drunk and do something stupid that would get me injured, someone else injured, etc.

Yeah, I got wasted before 21 and parents never found out - know why? Cause me and my friends kept that shit on the d/l EVERY TIME! And we also had a DD (usually my bitchass cause I'm a lightweight LoLz) to monitor us, make sure we didnt do too much stupid shit.

But Hells Bells, there are WAY WORSE THINGS on the market right now than some cheap-ass malt liquor.

To use your kid's death as a lotto ticket is one of the most pathetic paths to riches in America

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: So? ()
Date: May 20, 2011 10:48PM

Carene Williams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the 1st January,2010, My Dearly Loved Son,
> Daniel Jason Williams. (My Danny Boy) age 37, was
> found dead in his apartment on his bed, with FOUR
> EMPTY FOUR LOKO CANS BESIDE HIS BED, IN EUGENE
> OREGON. THE DEATH CERTIFICATE READ, DEATH BY
> SUICIDE. MY HEART IS STILL BROKEN, I AM STILL
> DEVASTATED, AND IN DEEP GRIEF. MOST PEOPLE who
> have never had something like this happen to them
> are idiots.!!!!!!AND HAVE NO COMPASSION
> WHATSOEVER. Danny left FOUR CANS OF FOUR LOCO IN
> THE REFRIGERATOR, I WOULD SAY FOR ME, because we
> were VERY DEPRESSED OVER LIFE IN THE WONDERFUL
> U.S.A. I still have the empty cans. Thank you,
> Carlene June Williams. email cloudsntrees@msn.com

What's your point?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 21, 2011 08:00AM

These parents piss me off.

1. Four Loko was an alcoholic beverage.

2. Their kid was 15.

He shouldn't have been drinking it in the first place. Where is THEIR responsibility in this?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Olde Farte ()
Date: May 21, 2011 08:16AM

What galls me is that it takes about 15 minutes to have alcohol start to hit you and you can imbibe ANY hard booze MUCH faster than that 15 minute threshold. I seriously hope ANY jury throws this back in the plaintiffs face VERY quickly to not only have justice served but also to send a blatant message as well.

Crap.

[note - BOTH major political parties have consistently voted against "tort reform" that would put a stop to lawsuits like this]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 21, 2011 08:27AM

Expect Bo Rupp's family to be put through the grinder on this one - and Bo too. Character assassinations, past drinking history, past substance abuse history, etc., will be hit with a fine toothed comb.

But, they brought this on themselves.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 21, 2011 08:30AM

Olde Farte Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What galls me is that it takes about 15 minutes to
> have alcohol start to hit you and you can imbibe
> ANY hard booze MUCH faster than that 15 minute
> threshold. I seriously hope ANY jury throws this
> back in the plaintiffs face VERY quickly to not
> only have justice served but also to send a
> blatant message as well.
>
> Crap.
>
>


In this particular case, I don't care if a flurry of lawsuits puts Four Loco out of business. But I don't think Four Loco had anything to do with what happened to this idiot or his idiot family.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 21, 2011 08:32AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Olde Farte Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What galls me is that it takes about 15 minutes
> to
> > have alcohol start to hit you and you can
> imbibe
> > ANY hard booze MUCH faster than that 15 minute
> > threshold. I seriously hope ANY jury throws
> this
> > back in the plaintiffs face VERY quickly to not
> > only have justice served but also to send a
> > blatant message as well.
> >
> > Crap.
> >
> >
>
>
> In this particular case, I don't care if a flurry
> of lawsuits puts Four Loco out of business. But I
> don't think Four Loco had anything to do with what
> happened to this idiot or his idiot family.

Agreed. I think Four Loko is a cheap, trash company that puts out a shit product. However, nobody has ever forced one to buy the product. And nobody ever takes responsibility when someone obtains and consumes it illegally.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: You are are harsh ()
Date: May 21, 2011 08:51AM

What parent can be with a kid 24-7?

Teenagers think of a lie before they even get out of bed in the morning. Did he tell his parents he was going to Jiffy Lube to see a concert? Where were his friends?

The Harrington girl who was in college also did something stupid at UVA? Are you going to blame her parents for her leaving a concert to buy god knows what? No.


Good parents can have kids who make mistakes. Bo made a terrible mistake and died because of it. Four Loco did not help matters and made him and others Loco.

He was fifteen. Stop blaming his parents. I am sure they are not doing it for the money. They do not want another child to go crazy drinking some Four Loco.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: you konw ()
Date: May 21, 2011 09:16AM

You know he was high to.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Your 4 Loco ()
Date: May 21, 2011 09:19AM

It is "too".

Now go away.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: tyrone ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:08PM

You have got to be fucking kidding me. It's called personal responsibility. The family and the kid had none.

If i was the driver of the car and learned this pos family is doing this, i would sue the for the damage their retard son did to my car and for emotional distrss.

This idiot's death was nothing more than darwin cleaning up the gene pool.


THE TRUTH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are all missing the big picture here. The
> caffine and other ingredients in the Four Loko is
> detrimental to health of anyone who drank it. Not
> even the most experienced drinkers can not handle
> 2 or more of these drinks. The mix of caffine and
> alcohol give mixed signals to the body as caffine
> is essentially an upper while alcohol is a
> depressent. So the caffine is masking the effects
> of alcohol on the body. All over the country
> people are getting alcohol posioning from
> something like this. Being 15 his body could not
> handle one let alone two of these drinks. If
> anything the family is saving anyone who drinks
> this by having the company change the formula for
> how the drinks are made.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Joe B. ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:10PM

Karla is a realtor -- I guess the real estate market is really hurting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: meep ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:15PM

I guess I am a bit slow, can someone please explain how Four Loko would in any way be responsible for an underage person's actions? If the parents feel the need to sue, wouldn't it make more sense to sue the place that sold it to him?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Ut videam ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:16PM

They're suing the RaceWay that sold it to him as well.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: meep ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:19PM

Suing the raceway makes sense since it is highly unlikely he looked 21 and I believe they are supposed to card anyway, but I still confused about how the company could be held liable for a consumer using a product that legally they should not have had?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Olde Farte ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:32PM

meep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suing the raceway makes sense since it is highly
> unlikely he looked 21 and I believe they are
> supposed to card anyway, but I still confused
> about how the company could be held liable for a
> consumer using a product that legally they should
> not have had?

It's the "deep pockets" theory of lawsuits - sue everyone but ESPECIALLY the deep pockets and if the STUPID jury finds the deep pockets only partially responsible the lawyers walk away with a big prize.

Note that the deep pockets are guaranteed to lose even if the jury MIGHT find them totally NOT responsible due to their legal costs thus it is often more cost-effective to settle early - win again for the lawyers.

Non-tort-reform "justice" at work.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Just curious ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:34PM

Can you also sue the company that made the cooler that chilled the 4Loko or maybe the party ice people who kept it cold?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: How about we sue ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:43PM

Every Hispanic for the word Loco.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: meep ()
Date: May 21, 2011 05:58PM

Thanks Olde Farte

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Raptured ()
Date: May 21, 2011 06:14PM

Just curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you also sue the company that made the cooler
> that chilled the 4Loko or maybe the party ice
> people who kept it cold?

I think thye outghta sue Bushmills for allowig Irish Coffee to be mixed, thus setting the precedent of alcohol mixed with caffeine in a drink.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Raptured ()
Date: May 21, 2011 06:17PM

Raptured Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you also sue the company that made the
> cooler
> > that chilled the 4Loko or maybe the party ice
> > people who kept it cold?
>
> I think thye outghta sue Bushmills for allowig
> Irish Coffee to be mixed, thus setting the
> precedent of alcohol mixed with caffeine in a
> drink.

Come to think of it, my favorite highball is a Black Russian - vodka mixed with Kahlua coffee liquor.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: 100% dedicated ()
Date: May 21, 2011 06:50PM

Joe B. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Karla is a realtor -- I guess the real estate
> market is really hurting.

http://www.myhomesdb.com/karlarupp

"We are 100% dedicated to each and every person and family to find a home that they are not only happy and content to live in, but are satisfied that their investment is protected."

If the boy would have been in the market for a home, who knows how this would have turned out.... :(

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 21, 2011 08:03PM

can I sue his parents for being so damn stupid?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: derrr ()
Date: May 21, 2011 11:19PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Rough ()
Date: May 21, 2011 11:49PM

So sad.

I guess the rest of you on here are great fans of Four Loco.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Squishy ()
Date: May 22, 2011 06:52AM

“I believe that if my Bobo had celebrated with more conventional drinks, he would have passed out and ended up with a bad hangover. Those are temporary effects. The Four Loko effect is eternal."

So it would have been OK if the 15-year old drank any other alcohol. What a dumb bitch.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: MarcusVick ()
Date: May 22, 2011 08:41AM

Rough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So sad.
>
> I guess the rest of you on here are great fans of
> Four Loco.




i was until they took the awesomeness out of them now its just shitty malt liquor

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 22, 2011 08:44AM

derrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Virginia Family Files Wrongful Death Lawsuit
> Against Makers of Four Loko: MyFoxDC.com
>
>
> what kind of mother says that?


In trying to make her case, the mom comes off as having a very casual attitude about underage drinking. My kid isn't much younger than Bo was and there's no fucking way in hell any type of alcohol consumption would have been okay with me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 22, 2011 08:45AM

@Rough - actually, Four Loko sucks like the cheap malt liquor it is

but what we arent really fans of
are STUPID ASS MOTHERS who wish they SIXTEEN YEAR OLD CHILDREN had just drank "more conventional (with the obligatory finger quotes, mind you) drinks and just passed out with a bad hangover in the morning

talk about "son of a bitch"..........................................


So yeah, we dont like frivolous lawsuits, we dont like STUPID ASS PARENTS, and we dont like kids lying in the middle of the road.

in the 90's, it was the movie "The Program" to blame for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Program#Controversy

Now it's Four Loko, not his friends who should have been making sure he didnt run off in the first place, not himself for not being able to control his al-key-hall, not the "whoever" who bought the liquor for him in the first place, and NOT them for explaining the dangers of alcohol better to him

P.S. I notice Raceway/Racetrack is being sued - does anybody know if the kid himself bought the stuff, or was it bought by a third party?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 22, 2011 08:46AM

Rough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So sad.
>
> I guess the rest of you on here are great fans of
> Four Loco.


Wrong. We aren't great fans of the way the Rupps are handling this. They sound like they are projecting blame for what happened on others. I'm surprised they aren't suing the person who hit their kid. Or maybe they are. I don't know.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 22, 2011 08:51AM

You really need to read the play-by-play of how this all happened. It should raise a lot of questions for the parents...

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=350457&paper=62&cat=104

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Raptured ()
Date: May 22, 2011 08:58AM

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You really need to read the play-by-play of how
> this all happened. It should raise a lot of
> questions for the parents...
>
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=350457&paper=62&cat=104

So the son created fake tea, drank himself into the ground, actually was brought home by his parents (being scolded all the way?), then "somehow" ran away from them, sat in the middle of a road, and committed suicide.

Yup - it's the booze-maker's fault, alrightee!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 22, 2011 09:15AM

what sorta bullshit is this?

"But there’s always something else [product merchandisers] are coming up with," said Fairfax County Police SRO Supervisor Bill Fulton. "They’re after your kids; and the kids don’t understand that — when they drink 23 ounces of an energy drink — they’re drinking the equivalent of a bottle of wine in five minutes."

Cause, you know, the kids are buying it THINKING IT'S AN ENERGY DRINK, you see...........................o_0

Are we really that stupid as a Nation?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: May 22, 2011 09:16AM

better quote two paragraphs later from the SAME COP!

A mom asked how underage teens are getting access to alcohol, and Fulton said parents leave it unlocked in their house. "For example, kids will take vodka from its bottle and fill it back up with water," he said. "They’re very resourceful."


Things that make you go "HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 22, 2011 09:38AM

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what sorta bullshit is this?
>
> "But there’s always something else are coming
> up with," said Fairfax County Police SRO
> Supervisor Bill Fulton. "They’re after your
> kids; and the kids don’t understand that —
> when they drink 23 ounces of an energy drink —
> they’re drinking the equivalent of a bottle of
> wine in five minutes."
>
> Cause, you know, the kids are buying it THINKING
> IT'S AN ENERGY DRINK, you
> see...........................o_0
>
> Are we really that stupid as a Nation?

That's why Bo put it in Arizona ice tea cans.

Seriously, what parent doesn't question why a kid is taking four huge cans of ice tea to a concert?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Date: May 22, 2011 09:39AM

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> better quote two paragraphs later from the SAME
> COP!
>
> A mom asked how underage teens are getting access
> to alcohol, and Fulton said parents leave it
> unlocked in their house. "For example, kids will
> take vodka from its bottle and fill it back up
> with water," he said. "They’re very
> resourceful."
>
>
> Things that make you go
> "HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"


Kids have always done this kind of shit. Parents are stupid if they don't know this kind of thing. Personally I don't keep bottles of liquor in the house. And when I buy beer, I have count on it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: hide your liquor? ()
Date: May 22, 2011 10:16AM

I hid the liquor so well when friends come over I forgot where it was.

A couple of months later I found it in a box labeled Christmas in the attic.

I think not having any liquor in the house is the easier way to go.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Rupp family suing four loko
Posted by: You have a lawyer ()
Date: May 22, 2011 10:44AM

You have a phone you have a lawyer. BTW I am thinking of suing my neighbor. He cuts his grass every week whereas I can only get to mine every other week, makes my yard look bad and causes me mental distress.
Attachments:
jackie-chiles-231x300.jpg
lionel-hutz-7.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 123AllNext
Current Page: 1 of 3


Your Name: 
Your Email (Optional): 
Subject: 
Attach a file
  • No file can be larger than 75 MB
  • All files together cannot be larger than 300 MB
  • 30 more file(s) can be attached to this message
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **   ******   **      **  **     **   ******  
 **     **  **    **  **  **  **  ***   ***  **    ** 
 **     **  **        **  **  **  **** ****  **       
 **     **  **        **  **  **  ** *** **  **       
 **     **  **        **  **  **  **     **  **       
 **     **  **    **  **  **  **  **     **  **    ** 
  *******    ******    ***  ***   **     **   ******  
This forum powered by Phorum.