My vote goes to the Dulles access road. An entire road for Airport traffic; What is that all about?

I know there are others that should be blown-up, abolished or should have never been built. Whatcha got?

Route 28 and any road leading into Manassas. All of them get backed up everyday. For Route 28, the traffic is backed up from old town Manassas all the way back to Dulles.

Pedro Eats Tacos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Route 28 and any road leading into Manassas. All
> of them get backed up everyday. For Route 28, the
> traffic is backed up from old town Manassas all
> the way back to Dulles.


So you propose we blow up all bridges over Bull Run, Fountain Head and The Occoquan.

What about 66 West, cant blow that up, perhaps we can just blow up the Manassas exit and entrance rapms?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2011 09:54AM by JBass.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My vote goes to the Dulles access road. An entire
> road for Airport traffic; What is that all about?
>
> I know there are others that should be blown-up,
> abolished or should have never been built.
> Whatcha got?


W&OD....

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

I guess back in the 50's when Dulles was being planned, they figured that a major international airport ought to have a road to get to it? They might have widened Braddock Road if Dulles was built were it was originally planned---where Burke Lake is.

Boy, do I remember that access road! Dulles was vastly underused for years and at night you could literally lay down on the road and sleep all night without getting run over. It was really great for motorsports too. The ONLY law enforcement was a FAA cop that ran the road once in a while. The fastest I've ever driven a car was on the Dulles Access Road---buried the speedo on a '63 Corvette.

JBass

I like being able to get in and out of the airport without issue.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pedro Eats Tacos Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Route 28 and any road leading into Manassas.
> All
> > of them get backed up everyday. For Route 28,
> the
> > traffic is backed up from old town Manassas all
> > the way back to Dulles.
>
>
> So you propose we blow up all bridges over Bull
> Run, Fountain Head and The Occoquan.
>
> What about 66 West, cant blow that up, perhaps we
> can just blow up the Manassas exit and entrance
> rapms?


May I suggest keeping 28, 66 et al. and blowing up Manassas instead?

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you propose we blow up all bridges over Bull
> Run, Fountain Head and The Occoquan.
>
> What about 66 West, cant blow that up, perhaps we
> can just blow up the Manassas exit and entrance
> rapms?

66 West crosses Bull Run just east of the rest area. No reason you couldn't blow that bridge.

Not in the county, but McDonnell will use 8 Billion dollars to build the "Coalfields Expressway" a four lane divided highway in the middle of nowhere (SW VA). The Coalfields Expressway has been on the docket for years as a political patronage to SW VA politicians. There is not enough traffic or population to justify this extreme expense while NOVA suffers an 8 hour rush hour daily.

From McDonnell's Transportation Plan:
"Coalfields Expressway To better link Southwest to other regions, the Coalfields Expressway must be completed. This highway will link Route 23 and 460 with major highways in West Virginia. It is critical to the further economic development of the region and it will be a priority for Bob McDonnell as Governor. We will utilize bonds and perhaps a PPTA proposal to complete the project in an efficient manner."

OK, so the reason the Toll Road was built was cause of the Backtrackers. Remember them? Ppl from Reston and Herdon would routinely take the Access Road all the way to the airport, then come back (backtrack) to their exit @ 28, Wiehle, or Reston Pkwy just to avoid Rt 7. That's what gave the state the idea for the Tol Road - cause ppl were not caring about getting no-point tickets for using the Access Rd.

Same thing with why we are getting Lexus Lanes - cause of the ppl who didnt care about getting HOV tickets back when they didnt have points to them.

Anywho, I vote for Burke Center Pkwy between 123 and the FCP. Cause that light isnt needed at all since the 123/Parkway ramp is like RIGHT THERE ANYWAYS!

I guess they could just make it a yield-way. Where you can only make right turns there, but that would make too much sense now, wouldnt it?

The road that leads to Gatehouse.

I heard Dale wants in paved in yellow brick gold. You know, since he saved so much closing Clifton.

say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess back in the 50's when Dulles was being
> planned, they figured that a major international
> airport ought to have a road to get to it? They
> might have widened Braddock Road if Dulles was
> built were it was originally planned---where Burke
> Lake is.
>
> Boy, do I remember that access road! Dulles was
> vastly underused for years and at night you could
> literally lay down on the road and sleep all night
> without getting run over. It was really great for
> motorsports too. The ONLY law enforcement was a
> FAA cop that ran the road once in a while. The
> fastest I've ever driven a car was on the Dulles
> Access Road---buried the speedo on a '63 Corvette.

__________--
I feel like I talked to you about this at the merchants in Warrenton.

How do they catch backtrackers on the Dulles road, anyway? They're apparently considering using plate cameras for it, but how do they do it without them?

Well unless you want to go the LONG way around and actually loop around right next to the terminal, there's usually a cop sitting at the bridge you cut cover over and back on, as well as someone looking at the cut-through in the middle of the road.

You still may even get caught looping the terminal if they remember seeing you go toward it and come back like 30 seconds later. Have heard rumors but can't confirm that.

In high school, I used to drive up to the Marriot and run in and use the bathroom, then get back in my car and backtrack on the express lanes. That way if anyone is watching it looks like I was there for a reason.

Dulles Airport was built out in the middle of farm country in the late 50s - the only real town nearby was Herndon; Reston was still pie-in-the-sky at that point. There was nothing out there but cows. The reason it has its own road is because Virginia didn't want to throw taxes to the Airport Authority for the construction, so they built their own - the only exits were on the outbound lanes, which led to the "backtrackers"- commuters going to the airport and looping back to avoid traffic. Backtracking was eventually made legal (you'd get a ticket before that) with the purchase of a sticker for your car.

In the early 80s as commercial construction along the corridor exploded, Virginia approached the Authority to broaden the road and add exits and make the road public; they were turned down (That's why we can still get to the airport pretty quickly even now - at least the last 13 miles there) So VA built the toll road on either side of the access road and added "slip lanes" for people going to the airport to get onto the access road.

I think the state gov't got bitten in the ass by their own lack of foresight and we have a weird spaghetti tangle of highways there, but it works.

The Dulles Greenway is privately owned, the majority owner and managing company is an Aussie outfit named Macquarie Infrastructure Group.

And I may be wrong, but I *think* they're the same group that are going to manage the new toll lanes on the beltway once they're completed. And THAT'S my candidate for the most useless waste-road in Fairfax, It will have flexible tolls...iow, you won't know *what* you're going to pay until you get there. Less $$ if the traffic is low and more if traffic is heavy. Surprise! And if it doesn't make its minimum projected income from tolls because there aren't enough people running the "Lexus Lanes"? VA has to pony up the difference with our taxes. How do you like them apples?

about backtracking - all you'd have to do is go to tha gas station and buy a newspaper or something in order to bypass the law , as that's legally airport business - no joke.

@ moo - I dont like those ROTTEN APPLES.............ONE. EFFING. BIT.

There may also be a no-compete with the Hot lanes so that the Beltway can't be expanded to accomodate more traffic during the life of the contract.

Les Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There may also be a no-compete with the Hot lanes
> so that the Beltway can't be expanded to
> accomodate more traffic during the life of the
> contract.

Brilliant. *rolleyes*

That Tri-County Parkway that they want to build. If that is ever built, that will become the biggest waste.

W.r.t. backtrack tracking there was a time a few years back when they had a slew of people sitting by/under the bridges with laptops taking license plate numbers both coming and going. I never heard for sure what happened with all that data but always assumed they compared in and out plate numbers by time offline somewhere - probably some lawyer finally said to the ones who authorized that method of scofflaw catching "You're kidding, right?" and the whole idea was dropped.

I didn't backtrack too much though I had a commute from Centreville to downtown DC. One time, however, I had to drive my wife somewhere and, for whatever reason, I went the airport route. I drove somewhere - forget where - on the airport grounds and passed a parking lot (hotel?) on the right. I drove into the parking lot of and around an office building on the left and came back around. Fortunately for me I was fairly observant and spotted an unmarked car sitting in the other parking lot and noticed he noticed me and was starting to back out. I immediately parked in the front lot of the building and got out of my car as he, driving past, literally physically expressed frustration (like banging his fist on the steering wheel as he looked at me). Nothing but a big game...

We can all thank Senator McCain for this game, BTW - yes, an =Arizona= senator is majorly behind the little-used access road here in Virginia.

@driven, thanks for the insight!

They catch backtrackers primarily by one of two ways:

1. There is a back entrance to the airport off Old Ox Road in Sterling. People cut into the airport from there, go right up past rental car row, turn left and voila they are on the access road.

They catch people cutting through the back gate by setting up a whole slew of cops sitting in the access lanes just after the mainline cutover ramp, just past RT. 28. It's right up over a hill so you can't really see them until the last minute.

Then they set up another whole slew of cops roaming around by that back gate in unmarked cars (there are a number of parking lots there that let the cops mingle and merge into the cut-through traffic relatively easily).

The unmarked cars follow you from the back gate and onto the access lanes, then they call ahead to the cops sitting in the access lanes waiting for you and give them a description of your car/tag number. If you don't hop onto the mainline at that cutover, bang, you're caught.

2. They roam around that whole toll road/rt 28 intersection & terminal loop looking for people cutting through the median or doing anything weird. They do watch in front of the terminal itself and if they see a car just cruising through without stopping, they'll call ahead and let the cops hanging out on the access road know.


Like someone said before, you can get around all of this by stopping at that gas station and buying something (I used to time my refills so I always got gas there) or by going into the hotel etc. Those require you to get out of your car though and if you are in a hurry, it takes time. That gas station STAYS crazy busy.

The other thing to do is to come into the airport, go up towards the terminal and cut through the daily/hourly parking lot. You don't have to get out of your car, you don't have to spend any money, its easy to see if someone is trying to follow you, and there aren't any cops sitting in there watching.

If you drive straight through, you don't pay any parking fee.

If you stop to get gas/paper keep your receipt (this is why the gas pumps are always out of paper).

If you are cutting through and know you don't have a legit excuse or receipt, stay in the right lane and just keep your eyes peeled as you come up over that hill as you go under Rt. 28. As soon as you crest that hill, you'll be able to see the cops sitting there pulling people over and you can hop onto the mainline at the last second.

This is not intended to guarantee any sort of invicibility or a catch all, so if you get caught that's on you. I just personally think it makes absolutely no sense to have those lanes sitting there empty while people sit in 2 hours of traffic for no frickin' reason, so have at it & good luck.

I cut an hour off my commute ALMOST every day for 3.5 yrs without ever getting a ticket.

Take the airport lanes towards the terminal. Follow the signs for rental car return. Keep going down past all the rental car places. Follow the signs for the airport exit. It dumps you right on Old Ox Road with easy access to 28 or the Greenway.

The information highway.

Duhhhhh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just personally think it makes
> absolutely no sense to have those lanes sitting
> there empty while people sit in 2 hours of traffic
> for no frickin' reason

Traffic for no reason? Never heard of it.

How empty would those lanes "just sitting there" be if everyone broke the law like you? I for one do a lot of flying and getting in and out of Dulles is easy and convenient compared to many airports. I suppose if it were up to you it would be a pain in the ass like getting anywhere else around here. Brilliant. Here's hoping you get a ticket soon. Have a nice day.

More Complete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duhhhhh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just personally think it makes
> > absolutely no sense to have those lanes sitting
> > there empty while people sit in 2 hours of
> traffic
> > for no frickin' reason
>
> Traffic for no reason? Never heard of it.
>
> How empty would those lanes "just sitting there"
> be if everyone broke the law like you? I for one
> do a lot of flying and getting in and out of
> Dulles is easy and convenient compared to many
> airports. I suppose if it were up to you it would
> be a pain in the ass like getting anywhere else
> around here. Brilliant. Here's hoping you get a
> ticket soon. Have a nice day.


You're right.

Thousands of people a day should be forced to sit there for hours on end wasting time, wasting money, wasting our finite natural resources and adding to our global pollution problem so you can get to the airport for your occasional flight a little bit quicker.

If quick, easy access to Dulles is such a high priority for you, move.

Duhhhhh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're right.
>
> Thousands of people a day should be forced to sit
> there for hours on end wasting time, wasting
> money, wasting our finite natural resources and
> adding to our global pollution problem so you can
> get to the airport for your occasional flight a
> little bit quicker.
>
> If quick, easy access to Dulles is such a high
> priority for you, move.

Judging by your posts, you don't appear to be very intelligent. I'm guessing that's why you've been breaking the law for 3 1/2 years. Fortunately for the rest of us, not everyone is as thick headed and selfish.

As I stated, I'm very pleased with the access to Dulles. Therefore, I don't have to move. Using your logic, you yourself are the one who should move. See how that works? I won’t hold my breath. Enjoy being a selfish law breaking jerk.

Actually, that is precisely what I did.

rofl

My point is that we have a severely underutilized slab of roadway sitting parallel to a severely overutilized peice of roadway and your justification for maintaining that imbalance is so that you, individually, don't have to sit in any traffic on your occasional jaunt to the airport.

Screw the thousands of people, thousands of gallons of fuel & countless hours wasted by everyone else sitting in traffic, as long as you can cruise the access road occasionally.

Duhhhhh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so that you, individually, don't have to sit in any
> traffic on your occasional jaunt to the airport.

Yes, because I'm the only one that goes to the airport. *rolleyes*

You apparently need to be reminded that thousands of people are in and out of that airport every day. You also seem to have forgotten that many, many people also work there. Still, you, individually, have decided that you know better and that the law should not apply.

Don't let law or reason stand in your way. I'm sure wherever you're going on your daily commute is more important than those going to the airport.

More Complete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duhhhhh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so that you, individually, don't have to sit in
> any
> > traffic on your occasional jaunt to the airport.
>
>
> Yes, because I'm the only one that goes to the
> airport. *rolleyes*
>
> You apparently need to be reminded that thousands
> of people are in and out of that airport every
> day. You also seem to have forgotten that many,
> many people also work there. Still, you,
> individually, have decided that you know better
> and that the law should not apply.
>
> Don't let law or reason stand in your way. I'm
> sure wherever you're going on your daily commute
> is more important than those going to the airport.


I did not frame the argument using the idea that *no one* uses the access road, my argument is that the access roads are severely underused in comparison to both the amount of traffic along that corridor and the other main roadways in that corridor and that congestion in the area could be reduced if those lanes were open to the general public.

Your argument against the use of those lanes is that you like to go to the airport sometimes and don't want the traffic from the mainline spilling over and slowing down your trip.

I'm advocating improvements for the many at the minor expense of the few, the opposite of how you are trying to frame it.

Now, one could argue that the congestion would still occur at the bottleneck of 66 or the beltway, seeing as how 495 North backs up onto the toll road daily even with the artificial throttle of the toll road & the toll booths but that's another issue to be addressed on another day.

Duhhhhh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your argument against the use of those lanes is
> that you like to go to the airport sometimes and
> don't want the traffic from the mainline spilling
> over and slowing down your trip.

Yes, you perfectly summed up my argument… My argument is not “against the use of those lanes”. Obviously, they are being used properly and they way they were intended to be by law abiding citizens such as myself.

I “like to go to the airport sometimes”? WTF? Who the hell likes going to the airport? Apparently your comprehension skills are about as good as your ability to follow laws. Going to the airport sucks. Opening the roads to the general public would most certainly create the gridlock seen everywhere else in the area during peak travel times, making it suck even more, for everyone.

That’s okay however as everyone (except for you apparently) is aware of this and the law will not be changed but rather simply enforced more strictly.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/31/3122.asp

Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell (R) signed into law last week a proposal that would create an entirely new form of automated ticketing machine, an “airport business” camera. The move followed his approval last month of legislation designed specifically to revive his state’s moribund red light camera program.

Beginning in July, the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority will have the authority to hire a private company to operate a photo enforcement system that would mail tickets worth a maximum of $600 each to the owners of vehicles accused of using the Dulles Access Highway while not on “airport business” (view legislation). This fourteen-mile free road is adjacent to a toll route, but is designed solely for the use of people driving to Dulles international Airport or patronizing a nearby hotel and gas station. The authority intends to raise a significant amount of money by accusing motorists of improperly using the road. The airport authority has not explained how it will know whether the road’s users have a legitimate purpose or not, but the law leaves it to ticket recipients to prove their own innocence.

“Proof of a violation of the authority regulation governing the use of the Dulles Access Highway shall be evidenced by information obtained from the photo-monitoring system or automatic vehicle identification system,” House Bill 1295 states. “A summons issued under this section, which describes a vehicle that… is alleged to have been operated in violation of the authority regulation governing usage of the Dulles Access Highway, shall be prima facie evidence that such vehicle was operated in violation of the authority regulation.”

Slightly more informative article on the prospective Dulles Access Road photo enforcement: http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/4605

TOSS YOUR MAILED RED LIGHT TICKET IN THE TRASH

I wonder if this statuate will transpose to the "Airport Usage" tickets.

Essentially it’s saying that they can attempt to mail you a ticket, but if that doesn’t work they have to hand-deliver it in order for the ticket to be valid.

Thus, under Virginia’s red light camera statute as it is now worded, the mere mailing of a citation without personal service by a law enforcement officer does not constitute sufficient notice under the statute’s own terms. While the statute permits the jurisdiction to make the initial attempt to summon the accused to court via mail, if that person fails to respond, he or she is not considered to have been satisfactorily served with notice. Default judgments entered under such circumstances (when the defendant fails to appear in court on the appointed return date) would thus not be binding, and the defendant could not be charged with contempt for failing to comply with such a judgment. Hence, despite its ostensive distancing from the requirements of Va. Code Ann. § 19.2-76, Virginia’s red light camera statute comes full circle and, in the end, requires personal service before a default judgment may be entered against no-shows.

http://blog.motorists.org/toss-your-virginia-red-light-camera-ticket/

The red-light camera law was re-enacted in 2010, but still contains the language stating that personal service is required if someone fails to appear in response to a mailed summons.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+ful+CHAP0175

There's a simple solution to this problem.

Use the HOT lane technology from the beltway on the bus-only entrance/exit points from the toll road to the access road (so if you're eastbound you pay at the beginning, westbound you pay at the end). As the access road gets more and more crowded, it costs more to cut over from the clogged road.

You can just set your entry price and ramp up slope higher than the beltway to make sure people actually going to the airport and not getting off early aren't affected too much.


Now you've offloaded SOME of the congestion onto the access road without making it as clogged, plus collected a decent revenue stream.

snowdenscold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's a simple solution to this problem.
>
> Use the HOT lane technology from the beltway on
> the bus-only entrance/exit points from the toll
> road to the access road (so if you're eastbound
> you pay at the beginning, westbound you pay at the
> end). As the access road gets more and more
> crowded, it costs more to cut over from the
> clogged road.
>
> You can just set your entry price and ramp up
> slope higher than the beltway to make sure people
> actually going to the airport and not getting off
> early aren't affected too much.
>
>
> Now you've offloaded SOME of the congestion onto
> the access road without making it as clogged, plus
> collected a decent revenue stream.

No sarcasm intended...

Genius! Eastbound fare goes up in the AM, volume driven of course, and westbound commuters cost goes down.... West to east would demand a higher price overall while helping WMATA with their atrociously forecasted financial shortcomings. All the while, lower "against traffic" fares will entice more reverse commuters to utilize the Toll road thus lowering total congestion in the Tysons area via Rt7 Gallows, Idlywood, Mall access roads, Spring Hill, 123 Etc..

EDIT Reverse in the PM, of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2011 09:33PM by JBass.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> snowdenscold Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There's a simple solution to this problem.
> >
> > Use the HOT lane technology from the beltway on
> > the bus-only entrance/exit points from the toll
> > road to the access road (so if you're eastbound
> > you pay at the beginning, westbound you pay at
> the
> > end). As the access road gets more and more
> > crowded, it costs more to cut over from the
> > clogged road.
> >
> > You can just set your entry price and ramp up
> > slope higher than the beltway to make sure
> people
> > actually going to the airport and not getting
> off
> > early aren't affected too much.
> >
> >
> > Now you've offloaded SOME of the congestion
> onto
> > the access road without making it as clogged,
> plus
> > collected a decent revenue stream.
>
> No sarcasm intended...
>
> Genius! Eastbound fare goes up in the AM, volume
> driven of course, and westbound commuters cost
> goes down.... West to east would demand a higher
> price overall while helping WMATA with their
> atrociously forecasted financial shortcomings. All
> the while, lower "against traffic" fares will
> entice more reverse commuters to utilize the Toll
> road thus lowering total congestion in the Tysons
> area via Rt7 Gallows, Idlywood, Mall access roads,
> Spring Hill, 123 Etc..
>
> EDIT Reverse in the PM, of course.


That's actually a pretty intelligent idea. Now to inform someone who can put it into place.

395/95 HOV lanes. Since those are built and rebarred, put in rail to and from.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> That's actually a pretty intelligent idea. Now to
> inform someone who can put it into place.


Not bad considering I was making it up as I was typing, eh?

Anyway, the best part is that no new lanes need to be built or anything. Simply replace the current gate arms for buses with an EZ-pass reader and HOT signage.

Piggy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 395/95 HOV lanes. Since those are built and
> rebarred, put in rail to and from.


Replace the HOV lanes with a Metro line, or some of that High-Speed rail everyone is talking about. It would probably take a bunch of cars off of the constantly clogged 95/395 rush hour drive.
And since they are used to riding with a bunch of people in the car already, you wont have the problem of people who refuse to take mass transit becuase they dont want to commute with other people.

They could put a big-ass parking structure underneath the Springfield Interchange. And they could put up some parking decks at those commuter lots that VDOT was trying to close down in PW County that everyone was complaining about. It might take a while to build the rail line, but a parking deck can go up in 3 months.

Traffic does not seem to be getting any better with all of the construction.........how much LONGER????????????????

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pedro Eats Tacos Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Route 28 and any road leading into Manassas.
> > All
> > > of them get backed up everyday. For Route 28,
> > the
> > > traffic is backed up from old town Manassas
> all
> > > the way back to Dulles.
> >
> >
> > So you propose we blow up all bridges over Bull
> > Run, Fountain Head and The Occoquan.
> >
> > What about 66 West, cant blow that up, perhaps
> we
> > can just blow up the Manassas exit and entrance
> > rapms?
>
>
> May I suggest keeping 28, 66 et al. and blowing up
> Manassas instead?


That might just work.