Hi - I would like to get feedback on GMU's art department both undergrad and graduate. My neighbor informed me that the dept. feels its larger than life itself (translation - very snobby). A recent friend of mine applied to a Masters program and had a horrible experience with the interview and the professors (art education). Would love more feedback to see what others have encountered.

Thanks!

They're terrible. I graduated last year and I now have no job, my parents kicked me out for being a 'hippy', and I'm crashing at my friend's place until I can get a gig somewhere, maybe at some store or something.

What was I thinking? A degree in art? There couldn't be a bigger waste of money. Why didn't I pursue engineering or something useful? I was always good at math. Fuck.

Mrs. Miserable,

ouch! art is not an easy field to make money in - try to stay in there! Where you studio/design/painting etc.?

What are you thoughts on the professors? other students take their classes seriously? Can you tell me anything more about the atmosphere there - were the professors in it for teaching or just happy to hear themselves talking?

I'm not actually an art graduate. I was just making fun of your field and ridiculing "art majors."

Sorry.

I graduated in 2008 as an undergrad with a Bachelor of Fine Arts. Originally, like a lot of kids out of high school, I was pressured to go to college and do whatever interested me. There's this expectation that once you have a degree, you'll get a job once you're done with college. In retrospect, the four years I spent at Mason were a waste of time and money in regards to developing my skills. Specifically, the instructors were a mixed bag in terms of teaching ability and actual artistic talent. I felt largely unprepared and unsatisfied by the time I finished.

You should only go to college for the hard sciences or fields where having a degree is necessary in securing a full-time job. You don't "need" a degree in the art field unless if you're teaching, and a portfolio is vastly more important than a paper degree. Also, everything you want to learn about being an artist whether you're doing traditional or digital work can be learned on your own time and your own dime without having to go to attend a university.

tl;dr: Don't go to college for an art degree, only go if the field you want to be a part of necessitates a degree.

Nothing says a person's wasted potential like a Bachelor of Fine Arts.

tropicalgal Wrote:
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> A recent friend of mine applied to a
> Masters program and had a horrible experience with
> the interview and the professors (art education).



That's because the only people that successfully fit in with art programs are pompous, limp wristed, and have stretched out ear lobes.

The summer is round corner and you can try those college painter companies. You can offer them creative murals and new service.

+1 on being a painter, that will be the career path. Seriously, why waste such amounts of money on an art major? Graduate with a degree in an area someone will pay money for, and take a Parktakes pottery class a couple of times a year as a hobby.

If you think art/music is all you can be successful with in college, don't waste money on it and end up with student loans you'll never be financially able to repay or waste your parents' money... redirect that money and time to votech or IT technical school.

justsayin Wrote:
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> +1 on being a painter, that will be the career
> path. Seriously, why waste such amounts of money
> on an art major? Graduate with a degree in an
> area someone will pay money for, and take a
> Parktakes pottery class a couple of times a year
> as a hobby.
>
> If you think art/music is all you can be
> successful with in college, don't waste money on
> it and end up with student loans you'll never be
> financially able to repay or waste your parents'
> money... redirect that money and time to votech or
> IT technical school.

yeah, I don't understand people who go for a degree in painting. But there are a lot of different kinds of art to study.....some will lead to employment, some are a dead end. People who major in painting or printmaking (printmaking, for god's sakes!) are just fucking nuts; there's one thing you can do with that: teach...but then, why not just go into art education? Graphic design is a solid path, so is medical illustration. Medical illustrators do very well.

But people, you act like the only thing to do in life is give up and be a slave to a computer, working as a government contractor in Northern Virginia. That's a very grim way to look at things. Art is a tough way to make a living, but at least you'll like what you do. Besides, the value of a college education is in decline all over the place--every college graduate I know of is drowning in debt, and that's only getting worse. I don't think it's worth it, especially now, to trade it all in for something you don't really want to do, like justsayin suggested, especially if you really have a talent that could be developed. I say go down with the ship--go ahead, go to art school and starve just like everybody else.

but to the OP, I've heard nothing good about George Mason's art program. I was barely aware they even had one.

eesh Wrote:
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> Nothing says a person's wasted potential like a
> Bachelor of Fine Arts.

eesh, you sound like a super-duper conservative Republican sometimes, though I don't think you are one.

hey, what says wasted potential more: a Bachelor of Fine Arts and a shot at doing something that makes you happy, or slaving away at a 9 to 5 desk job you hate, battling some of the worst traffic in the nation day in, day out, and all just to barely make ends meet, in a shitty apartment in a bad part of town in one of the most bland, transient, and plastic parts of the country?

I await your very, very personal attack. It's gonna hurt, boy, I just know it. I'm hurt already.

Mrs. Miserable Wrote:
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> I'm not actually an art graduate. I was just
> making fun of your field and ridiculing "art
> majors."
>
> Sorry.

+1

I got it right away... leave it to an art student to not get sarcasm.

Mr. Misery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nothing says a person's wasted potential like a
> > Bachelor of Fine Arts.
>
> eesh, you sound like a super-duper conservative
> Republican sometimes, though I don't think you are
> one.
>
> hey, what says wasted potential more: a Bachelor
> of Fine Arts and a shot at doing something that
> makes you happy, or slaving away at a 9 to 5 desk
> job you hate, battling some of the worst traffic
> in the nation day in, day out, and all just to
> barely make ends meet, in a shitty apartment in a
> bad part of town in one of the most bland,
> transient, and plastic parts of the country?
>
> I await your very, very personal attack. It's
> gonna hurt, boy, I just know it. I'm hurt already.


The whole point of college for most people is to get a financial leg up in whatever field they are interested in. For most people, this means they 1) make money to support a family 2) live in a nice house and have nice things 3) have healthcare 4) can retire in comfort 5) provide opportunities and comfort to their children.

This also means that 6) they will pay taxes 7) contribute to the creation of wealth in our economy 8) not rely on government assistance... but that's beside the point.

I graduated from GMU with a business degree 6 years ago. I learned far more from actual experience than I ever did in college. But simply having that degree opens doors for me with new employers. Nobody asks to see a Fine Arts degree...

If you want to paint, go fucking paint... there are plenty of cheap or free lessons you can pick up along the way. But paying $27K for art lessons to get a piece of paper nobody cares about is just plain retarded.

the art department at george mason is actually producing some talent. most of the professors have actually gotten bonuses and new classrooms because of this.

My apologies go out to all those people who don't think there is good money in art,
I am a Graduate of george mason where I have received a Bachelors in "Fine" Arts for sculpting.previously I made good money in computers, however sculpture is where I can say I have easily have made more money creating art.


Now don't get me wrong, I have more than just a fine arts degree, I also build robots in my spare time, so I'm not hurting financially.

The faculty have a big stick up their butt in some regards, however what they hate to admit is that you are perfectly free to enrol in any degree classification and take art classes. you do not need to join up for their graduate program until they have gotten to know you and know they are "investing" in you instead of simply teaching you. Some of the best artists at george mason only are enrolled in a single art class and gain 24 hour access to the studios, its a hard bargain to beat.

only get that fine arts or bachelors of arts degree if you feel like there is nothing in your life you can do without art.

You guys should be grateful for all of the people brave enough to go into any sort of artistic field. Those are the people who entertain you moronic creatons with zero imagination and no creativity and make your simple lives outside your boring jobs a little less sad. Show a little appreciation and respect.

All I know is that there's some pretty strange 'art' around various parts of campus outside. Some made interesting obstacles for frisbee golf.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2011 01:09AM by snowdenscold.

thanks to the bball team, can anyone even get into mason anymore.

sculptor of metal:

Thanks for your input....wondering about your comment on the faculty having a stick up their butt...could you elaborate. Do they feel they are better than life itself? Is their teaching superior where if they felt this way - maybe they could have some type of reason for acting that way?....would love to know more especially since you said the best artist only tend to take one class. Then what type of students go there? The privileged type - are they talented or is more like art in high school? Just trying to get insight.... Thanks so much!Their building looks amazing.....but what of their faculty?

Speaking of GMU sculpture, anybody else thing that piece outside the patriot center is the most hideous work of art ever placed on public display? One positive about it, my family had no problem finding me a graduation when I told them to meet me at the "Ugly Statue."

tropicalgal:

the teaching staff is made up mostly of teachers who love art, I make this distinction because there are few among them I can consider "Artists." Those who are great teachers found their place in the institution where they can safely continue to make a living and support their goals in art, not every teacher at george mason is able to say that after becoming a teacher they continue to make art.

I will not name names to protect the guilty, There is a "Fine" painter who has a reputation of being a egomaniac, the only reason he was ever tolerated at mason is because out of the students who remain in the art program after his class more than half show dramatic improvement in their technique. he represents the staple of mediocre artist turning into a mediocre teacher. after struggling in the d.c. art world for years without much fame or publicity fell back on teaching.

in contrast, there is an aesthetics/design teacher who is the polar opposite, An artist and published critic who has no need to teach does so only because of their love of teaching. this teacher is willing to actually tell the students how it is in the real world, and is willing to admit that they don't have all the answers , on many occasions sparking very heated arguments that lead to a conclusion where learning is impossible to avoid. some have gone as far to say that both of these teachers are prima donna but they make great students achieve great things.

then there are those who just are just assholes. without any real reason they will prey on insecure students and tell them dreams of being the next great american artists as long as they are part of their guild or do it their way and drive all those with any courage to decent or rebel to drop the class, or worst of all cause the student to augment their idea to a ludicrous point where what they make is the art of the teacher without any learning actually occurring or any of the student transferring into the created work. bringing fine arts education to the preschool level with a college paid babysitter who tells the kids what color to color the coloring books with and then gets to give out gold star stickers to their fans.

the sad truth of the matter is that the teaching staff also reflects the student base, the money and politics of george mason as a whole, there are over awarded lazy students that want to just get an easy A, so their classes are taught by disgruntled or inexperienced teachers. there are the crafty students, who don't yet know if they are artisans or just crafty, and like them there are teachers who don't know if they are professional artists who teach, or "those who can't ,will teach." and just like there are great teachers there are students who came from nowhere with no training who have the most fascinating eye for art and only need guidance from a professional to get to a higher level.

just remember that the art classes are also sold to the students of other departments by faculty advisors who assume art is fluff or an easy way to fill out a physics degree, so out of every 50 students, 35 of them were told bad advice and go into art thinking its just for playing with fingerpaint so they dont have to take a hard language or a harder literature class, then they come face to face with the first fallacy of art school, its neither easy or cheap and then they turn into little shits and give the teachers shit, and then shit just keeps getting worse because only the good teachers know how to deal with them, and the bad well just give those kids more shit to deal with until they give up art or become brown nose apprentices. sadly thats why most of the teachers dont really respect the undergraduate artists, and i dont blame them, over half of the students are only there to screw around and very few make art like their soul depends on it. they are there because they are not artists, there students of buisness math science etc who were bullshitted into signing up for art by faculty advisors too stupid to actually think about what the class is and instead just tell the student " It fills your ___ degree requirement its an easy A alot of students do well in art" and the teachers who teach these students become very burned out and very hostile quickly to students.


tropicalgal either go into art, or forget it entirely. hesitate and you will never accomplish anything worth achieving. in the end the journey of an artist begins at birth ends at death , and unless you get fatally hazed in a frat, its pretty likely that art school is only going to be 2% of your experience as an artist , the rest of your life is going to make school seem easy.

so if you really want to go into art DO IT.mason is not the best or worst choice you can make , the worst is making the choice not to make art and regretting it

strates:

you still called it Art. ugly or not. :)

just a thought,despite it being ugly or being ugly enough for family to use as a landmark, you referenced the work as ugly art,so although you think its ugly you still called the thing art while ridiculing it,so even as an ugly statue the artist accomplished making that sculpture artfully enough be thought of in art terms despite the observers taste in beauty.
now i think its junk , but i'm just an artist don't take my opinion, ask a critic :)

sculptor of metal Wrote:
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> strates:
>
> you still called it Art. ugly or not. :)
>
> just a thought,despite it being ugly or being ugly
> enough for family to use as a landmark, you
> referenced the work as ugly art,so although you
> think its ugly you still called the thing art
> while ridiculing it,so even as an ugly statue the
> artist accomplished making that sculpture artfully
> enough be thought of in art terms despite the
> observers taste in beauty.
> now i think its junk , but i'm just an artist
> don't take my opinion, ask a critic :)


True, there is good art and bad art, but the only reason that thing is recognizable as art at all is from the context. If there wasn't a label on it, with somebody's name on it, I would have called it construction residue.

Thats what I like to think of it as also :) in fact I'll think of you when I tell people that "is what it is" now, residue just has that nice ring to it :)

I thought it was a great program