My rising-8th grader, my wife, and I went to a TJ information session, overview of TJ and admissions, last night.

Other than the information about TJ itself, a couple things struck me:

(1) Attendance to the session was minimal - almost no one was there (I expected half the 7th grade class to attend - MAYBE 20 families actually were represented in some manner...maybe). The invite had gone out to all rising-8th graders and their parents but almost no kids showed up and the parental representation wasn't impressive.

(2) Cultural makeup of the attendees was heavily apparent-Far East origin weighted (all the Pacific countries and India/Pakistan, for example) with a handful of apparent-European origin (like, maybe three families), and one recent-African origin family (based on thick accent). If you want to use (false science) "race" words (I do not but, as the preceding sentence amply demonstrates, it's convoluted to NOT use them!), the makeup of the can't-call-it-a-crowd was heavily Asian and probably-American Asian, a smattering of probably-American White, and one non-American (or, at best, first-generation American) Black.

The TJ Admissions rep mentioned that 1 in 7 of the applicants gets admitted to TJ; I believe this particular middle school had about 1 in 15 applicants admitted so I'd bet (without checking) that someplace like Langley has better than 1 in 7 admitted.

Some folks have complained (loudly) about the cultural/"racial" makeup of the student population of TJ. Given what I saw last night, the makeup of the student population of TJ is strongly rooted in just who is really interested in the very first place.

[a somewhat-irrelevant FYI - MY kid is Asian-American though I am not...]

So you're saying there weren't a lot of Rose Hill types at that meeting.

excellent boots on the ground reporting. Now if you drove by a playground on the way there or back home you would have seen dozens of black kids out there playing basketball. I don't know why people can't accept that culturally some groups are different than others and you can't force people to want to get into TJ if their talents and interests lie elsewhere.

shake tiller Wrote:
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> ...Now if you drove by a playground on the way there or back
> home you would have seen...

I should have noted that the meeting was held at the middle school, not at TJ. I also should have noted that I do not know the cultural makeup of the middle school (probably available for all middle schools on fcps.edu site) but my feeling is the makeup of the attendance of this meeting did NOT represent the makeup of the middle school itself (just as, for example, the orchestra for the middle school does not represent the makeup of the school - by far).

Anywho, the original post is just to note the two things- the apparent relative lack of interest (which was a total surprise) and, of those interested in such a preliminary info session, the cultural makeup of who they were.

The big meeting was here in Korea. It's tricky lining up all the fake stories, English lessons, lodging, etc that we need to send our kids to Virginia for four years of free education in America.

Parental Opinion Wrote:
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>
>
>
> Anywho, the original post is just to note the two
> things- the apparent relative lack of interest
> (which was a total surprise) and, of those
> interested in such a preliminary info session, the
> cultural makeup of who they were.


Most people have given up on trying to get their kids into TJ. Unless your kid is a total book worm, they have no chance. Forget athletes, forget kids who do anything besides Model UN, Chess Club and Lego League.

Even with nerds being in right now many kids do not want to attend TJ.

Kids don't want to go Wrote:
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> Even with nerds being in right now many kids do
> not want to attend TJ.


Can you elaborate a bit more? I don't believe admissions rates have declined in the past several years, have they?

International students pay a high tuition rate to go to TJ. The school is a cash cow for Fairfax Co.

When was the last time Jack Dale did a tour to recruit students who live outside Fairfax?

Check out the international students Wrote:
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> International students pay a high tuition rate to
> go to TJ. The school is a cash cow for Fairfax Co.
>
>
> When was the last time Jack Dale did a tour to
> recruit students who live outside Fairfax?

Is this true? That is the first time I have heard this. Got anything to support it?
(the rules for admission state a student has to be a county resident, so they don't even admit there are any "international stiudents" at TJ.

TJ is hiring an ESOL teacher for next year. I wonder how a kid with the smarts to get into TJ could possibly have problems with English?

(hint: they ain't from around here)

Interesting. It says on the TJ web site you must prove you live in Fairfax before you can apply.

I have heard the international students move here six months before they apply. It does not say you must be a US resident.

I think Jack Dale would never tell the truth if he seeks out international students.

How many oversea trips on the schools dime has he been on and why?

TJ takes students from Prince William County and probably Alexandria, Arlington, Loudon and who knows where else. Those counties pay the tuition for students to go there. It's not just for Fairfax County students. It's more like a regional Governor's school.

...back in '86, when they weren't a magnet school yet, I still can't wrap my head around having to "apply" and pay "tuition"to go to it. Trippy.

TJ is regional Wrote:
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> TJ takes students from Prince William County and
> probably Alexandria, Arlington, Loudon and who
> knows where else. Those counties pay the tuition
> for students to go there. It's not just for
> Fairfax County students. It's more like a
> regional Governor's school.


yes, this is correct but the students have to be residents of those counties, and last time I looked those counties are part of Virginia, USA so those students are not "international students." Still looking for any suport for the claim that TJ has international students and they tuition. I think that is incorrect.

noway Wrote:
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> Still looking for any suport for the claim that TJ
> has international students and they tuition. I
> think that is incorrect.

International/nonresident students are allowed into the school system AND they pay tuition (at least, I could have sworn within the last month or so I read just that somewhere after looking into this). TJ is a special case, however, and I don't think they allow international/nonresidents in. How one changes to "resident" is a little ambiguous; it may be sufficient to just BE here in Fairfax (or the other participating counties) but not have length-of-time for that residency - prove residence for NOW and you're a resident. Note that this is different from in-state tuition for colleges, for example, where a specified time period is mandatory.

But I didn't find anything about lower-school "residence" requirements other than "be here NOW as a resident (and stay that way while kid is in school)".

Parental Opinion Wrote:
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> International/nonresident students are allowed
> into the school system AND they pay tuition (at
> least, I could have sworn within the last month or
> so I read just that somewhere after looking into
> this)...

Okay, I found some info from last year - prices have probably gone up.

Here's the general "Nontuition/tuition" doc:

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/12e695cdb9981eb785256e56000c1bf3/f7ffa31324a90c4b85256fcb006255d2/$FILE/P2202.pdf

and here's the "Cost of tuition" doc:

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/12e695cdb9981eb785256e56000c1bf3/431f5b84e7f48b638525707e005d90f2/$FILE/N2206%2009.pdf

[btw - I found these with a general Google search, not a FCPS-site search]

> ...Here's the general "Nontuition/tuition" doc:...

Oh!!!

I just noticed a KEY sentence in that document!

>>> "...This policy does not preclude contractual arrangements between the
>>> Fairfax County School Board and agencies of the federal government or the
>>> school board of another jurisdiction to permit students not otherwise eligible
>>> to attend FCPS."

IMHO, this sentence means that the Superintendent's trips to Korea could indeed have been to arrange money-making contracts with the Korean government to allow international students (from Korea) to attend FCPS.

I should note that I personally have NO problem with that as long as those contracts minimally recover the cost of the education and the marketing trips. I probably would have a problem with those same students being allowed into TJ, however, since I think it is MUCh more valuable to the county/US to have those students be residents - I do not know if those students are allowed into TJ even under special "contractual arrangements".

If Jack Dale has a contract outside of the state that is wrong. TJ should be for Va students only.

No wonder he did not his emails released to CES. He has something ot hide and it may be on many levels.

I am so glad Clifton parents sued the FCPS.

FCPS schools (including TJ) should not be in the business of educating the rest of the world. Even for a fee. Public schools are not a business operation. They need to focus on providing a free and appropriate educaton to people already here. These schools belong to those who vote and pay taxes HERE. We are not here to be "bought". Please return our schools to our communities. JD needs to stop playing real estate mogul and business CEO games. We need a superintendent who has some allegiance to this county---not someone from somewhere else who will leave as soon as he has gotten his "fame" here. I guess there is no loyalty to anything or anyone anymore.

JD has taken his eye off the ball. We have all kinds of problems (from bad textbooks to a mismanaged disciplinary system just for starters) that need to be addressed and meanwhile he is in Korea? There is plenty to do here. It's time for us to worry about those in our own house. The family needs help and he is out at the casino gambling.

I do think it would help if the schools had their own taxing authority apart from the county. Doing both sides of the accounting would hold them responsible (instead of always blaming the BOS for their problems).

Why doesn't Dale just go ahead and change the name of TJ to Hyundai Academy or some other name selected by a chaebol in Seoul?