Apparently they have started to put the trailer bases in at Fairview in preparation for the influx of kids from redistricting. My child said the first trailer is supposed to be installed during spring break and a class is moving out there. Sucks...

Maybe they'll get rid of that principal while they are cleaning house. We all thought Dr. Scott was bad!

The closing of Clifton Elementary affected more than just the students at Clifton. When you have to send approximately 400 students to three other schools, it obviously is going to make those three schools over crowded. There should have been more than just the Clifton parents fighting the school board.

this sucks!

What was up with Dr. Scott being so bad?

Dr. Scott lAst day is June 30th. It was on The fcps employment website

Rebecca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The closing of Clifton Elementary affected more
> than just the students at Clifton. When you have
> to send approximately 400 students to three other
> schools, it obviously is going to make those three
> schools over crowded. There should have been more
> than just the Clifton parents fighting the school
> board.


Sorry your children will have to be in trailers with brown kids, how awful it must be for you ;(

Yup, those brown kids will have your kid speaking spanish and teaching your kid the value of WIC, food stamps and how to a get free ride in no time! You just won the lotto!

wow - GG and Howsad are two of the most pathetic posters I've seen on this board yet

being stupid/racist, that's one thing.

But to be so ButtFuck Stupid to think that Clifton Elem has/had a huge low-income family or Hispanic ratio......................that's just ignorance on an ENTIRELY different level.
o_0

Wait a minute. They are putting trailers at Fairview, NOW?!? We were told that there would be NO trailers at Fairview as a result of CES closing. The 'interior modifications' were supposed to be done over the summer and would result in more than enough room to accomodate the additional kids from CES.

Not to mention, why are they doing it now? Are there still going to be interior modifications, or are these kids going to be stuck in trailers forever? We all know that once a trailer arrives at a school, it never leaves.

Then again, when your budget for moving trailers around each year is over $10 MILLION, you might as well use it. Heaven forbid you would use that $10 MILLION for something actually worth the expense.

There is still the FOIA/Open Meetings Law lawsuit against the school board. The decision in that case (I think) is due out sometime in the next couple of weeks. If the judge decides in favor of the plaintiff, then the meeting from July 8th, when they voted to close CES, becomes null and void. That means the school board will have to hold another public hearing on the closing of clifton elementary and hold another vote.
IF that happens, I really hope that all the parents from Fairview, Oak View and Union Mill come out to speak at the hearing. All three of those schools would be completely removed from the SW Boundary Study if CES were to stay open. That means no trailers, no additions at those schools and no kids misplaced from those schools to make room for clifton kids.

There was and still is NO legitimate reason to close CES. The water turned out to be just fine and the school board was kind enough to inform us of that just recently. The enrollment didn't decline and we now know it will end up costing more to close CES and move the kids around than it would have been to renovate.

What happened to the first case? Did they take that to Va Supreme Court?

> Sorry your children will have to be in trailers
> with brown kids, how awful it must be for you ;(


I don't have kids at Clifton. But if I did, I'm sure your kids would be able to teach them a thing or two about living off the government.

Rebecca Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The closing of Clifton Elementary affected more
> than just the students at Clifton. When you have
> to send approximately 400 students to three other
> schools, it obviously is going to make those three
> schools over crowded. There should have been more
> than just the Clifton parents fighting the school
> board.


The combination of the cost of the asbestos remediation and replacement of the chiller plus the poor location of the school makes the case that it should have been closed years ago. The crybaby Clifton parents have gotten their way at the expense of the rest of us taxpayers for a long time. Hopefully the relocated CES kids wont teach the normal kids how to be selfish as fuck.

Look at the budget and see how many chillers are being replaced--Quite a few! As far as asbestos remediation--that is only necessary if the asbestos is crumbling or loose. I don't think that was the case.

I'd rather have my child at Clifton than in a trailer--lots safer. Have you heard that they empty the trailers during wind advisories? Did you watch the news yesterday? Think many kids would have been in their trailers had they had school yesterday?

ain't straight out of compton , I'm straight out the trailer.

This will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling about trailers.

Wonder what the theft is on equipment in trailers? How about doing a FOIA ib that?

hthttp://www.fcps.edu/fts/safety-security/publications/sec-3.pdftp

This will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling about trailers

all of the money for taxes in this area and kids are in trailers?????? WHY?

My kid said that a gt teacher's class was moving out to the new trailer right after spring break and they were moving a special ed class into that classroom.

There are more trailers coming supposedly because Fairview does not have the space to accomodate full day K and all the new kids coming in.

Thats all I know.

It's hard to believe the county can move so quickly to make changes at the schools where the Clifton kids will be going. When was the boundary change decided? It's also hard to believe that all of the changes to these schools (interior modifications, trailers, additions) will cost less money than keeping Clifton open. Start times for schools are changing dramatically because of the new and longer bus routes. Obviously there was an agenda already in place behind all of this. Wonder what developer is going to get the Clifton property?

Elections have consequences. We need better people on the school board looking out for the TAX PAYER.

here's the correct link for the post above.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/safety-security/publications/sec-3.pdf


Anyone know what happens in the event of a lock down or school shooting if the kids are in trailers? How hard do you think it would be to shoot through the walls of a trailer?

Sad that we even have to consider that scenario, but it happens.

According to the fcps link above, teachers are encouraged to keep the doors locked during class. What kind of locks are on the doors? Are they easily unlocked from the inside or do you need a key to unlock them from the inside? If you need a key, where is it? What happens if the teacher suffers a medical problem and can't unlock the door? How many teachers do actually lock the door during class? When I was in HS, we had plenty of trailers (which are STILL there - 25 years later, BTW), and the teachers never locked the door during class. Anyone could walk in at any time. Maybe they weren't encouraged way back then to lock the door, but I wonder how many teachers today actually do lock the door.

Trailers are a poor use of taxpayer money any way you look at it. Once a trailer arrives at a school, it NEVER leaves. More trailers get added, burying the trailers already there, so the older trailers never get replaced. It just gets worse from there.

I went to class in a Trailer at Fairview in 1992; It was pretty shitty and I remember one afternoon when they sent Reggie (The Janitor) to protect us because there had been a robbery/stabbing in the shopping center across the street.

Also, I cant wait to hear the bitching and ranting form Clifton parents when they realize how truly awful Crevanna Oaks is.

Also, Dr Scott, while stern and firm always struck me a fair. What was she doing that made her bad recently?

It's a trailer. If your kid is going to public school, they should get used to being in a trailer. Most will end up living in one anyways.

What is Crevanna Oaks?

Robert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is Crevanna Oaks?

low income housing.

Every elementary school has them - we have explosive growth. Lots of peps want inour schools.

Get used to it homeslice.

Clifton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wait a minute. They are putting trailers at
> Fairview, NOW?!? We were told that there would be
> NO trailers at Fairview as a result of CES
> closing. The 'interior modifications' were
> supposed to be done over the summer and would
> result in more than enough room to accomodate the
> additional kids from CES.
>
> Not to mention, why are they doing it now? Are
> there still going to be interior modifications, or
> are these kids going to be stuck in trailers
> forever? We all know that once a trailer arrives
> at a school, it never leaves.
>
> Then again, when your budget for moving trailers
> around each year is over $10 MILLION, you might as
> well use it. Heaven forbid you would use that
> $10 MILLION for something actually worth the
> expense.
>
> There is still the FOIA/Open Meetings Law lawsuit
> against the school board. The decision in that
> case (I think) is due out sometime in the next
> couple of weeks. If the judge decides in favor of
> the plaintiff, then the meeting from July 8th,
> when they voted to close CES, becomes null and
> void. That means the school board will have to
> hold another public hearing on the closing of
> clifton elementary and hold another vote.
> IF that happens, I really hope that all the
> parents from Fairview, Oak View and Union Mill
> come out to speak at the hearing. All three of
> those schools would be completely removed from the
> SW Boundary Study if CES were to stay open. That
> means no trailers, no additions at those schools
> and no kids misplaced from those schools to make
> room for clifton kids.
>
> There was and still is NO legitimate reason to
> close CES. The water turned out to be just fine
> and the school board was kind enough to inform us
> of that just recently. The enrollment didn't
> decline and we now know it will end up costing
> more to close CES and move the kids around than it
> would have been to renovate.


Did I miss something? Didn't they say that FDK would be implemented over the next 3 years? Didn't they say during the boundary vote that they would vote on what school gets prioritized when? Has Facilities already made decisions before the Board has voted on it? I don't understand.

Also, isn't the cost of the additions going to go in the 2011 Bond Referendum? Why are they forcing this boundary study through and pushing the kids into the other schools based on additions that they don't yet have the money for? If they do have the money, than why are they doing a bond? Are they just going to try and push our kids into the schools like sardines in the hope it will motivate us to vote for the Bond for money they don't need? It all seems very fishy.

Its easier to to turn lil Johnnie and Suzy into lemmings when they are overcrowded and in large numbers.

I'm voting against the referendum until I see integrity in the spending. When they have schools with space, there is no need for this. If they had to add trailers to enable FDK, I would understand--but to just wholesale shift population because of politics--I can't support that.

My kids are grown and I live in Herndon. I have no pony in the Clifton race. I just know right and wrong when I see it. I saw it close up in the South Lakes redistricting when they left Langley out--and, from what I have read, the Clifton issue is worse.

I can't decide if Liz did this for WSpringfield votes, or just for the heck of it.

As far as FDK, I had no problem phasing it in beginning with the poor schools--but to just come to a screeching halt is not right. Title I schools already get additional money. They could write a grant to get Title I money for FDK for Title I kids if they don't intend to give it to all of them. But to leave out the communities that are paying the higher taxes is somehow unfair to me. Essentially, the neighborhoods without FDK are paying for the neighborhoods that have it. Of course, the exception is Kathy's school--which will have FDK with almost no low income kids.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went to class in a Trailer at Fairview in 1992;
> It was pretty shitty and I remember one afternoon
> when they sent Reggie (The Janitor) to protect us
> because there had been a robbery/stabbing in the
> shopping center across the street.
>
> Also, I cant wait to hear the bitching and
> ranting form Clifton parents when they realize how
> truly awful Crevanna Oaks is.
>
> Also, Dr Scott, while stern and firm always struck
> me a fair. What was she doing that made her bad
> recently?

Reggie was the Man! Guy was always smiling and I remember students always high fiving him after throwing thier lunches away.

does anyone remember the old school bus mailbox that Fairview had back in the day?

and when did they take down that payphone out front?

and is that "Burke Centre" sign still out front?

whoever let them close down Clifton Elem really needs to have his/her ass kicked :(

Herndon resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at the budget and see how many chillers are
> being replaced--Quite a few! As far as asbestos
> remediation--that is only necessary if the
> asbestos is crumbling or loose. I don't think
> that was the case.
>
> I'd rather have my child at Clifton than in a
> trailer--lots safer. Have you heard that they
> empty the trailers during wind advisories? Did
> you watch the news yesterday? Think many kids
> would have been in their trailers had they had
> school yesterday?


The estimate for the asbestos remidation to extend the current certification beyond it's July experation date was almost 500,000 bucks. Spending that ammount of money in addition to the other costs of running a building beyond it's usefull life would be a crime against the taxpayers of this county.

Fairview = oldest elementary in the county?

Main schoolhouse is still in use within the center of all of the additions?

Rabbits?

Tree?

Green leprechaun feet on st patties day?

I haven't been up there in years...

Nope, no evidence of trailers yet, but wouldn't be surprised to see them at some point.

500,000 is nothing compared to the cost of moving those kids. Asbestos is no big deal if it isn't disturbed anyway.

I taught in a school built by WPA in thge thirties, It is still in use. So is the high school built by WPA that my husband attended. It is in great shape.

I've never been in Clifton, but the pictures I saw looked pretty good. We're not talking about automobiles.

not Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 500,000 is nothing compared to the cost of moving
> those kids. Asbestos is no big deal if it isn't
> disturbed anyway.


---------------------------

yeah, like I wanna take the risk with any kids on that particular bet...........

500,000 is nothing compared to the cost of moving
> those kids. Asbestos is no big deal if it isn't
> disturbed anyway

He is right. If it is not crumbling, it's fine. Lots of buildings have asbestos. Getting rid of it is expensive because you have to disturb it. Covering it is fine.

"We know how to build schools where asbestos is identified," said school board member Elizabeth Bradsher. "That is nothing new to our planning and construction department

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/asbestos-threat-casts-shadow-over-proposed-new-clifton-elementary-site#ixzz1Jvdt2QSx

So Liz was fine with building on asbestos.......at Liberty site. All depends on her goal at the time.

home owner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 500,000 is nothing compared to the cost of moving
>
> > those kids. Asbestos is no big deal if it isn't
>
> > disturbed anyway
>
> He is right. If it is not crumbling, it's fine.
> Lots of buildings have asbestos. Getting rid of
> it is expensive because you have to disturb it.
> Covering it is fine.
-----------------------------------
again, dont wanna risk my kids or any others to yr bet

Where are you getting this $500,000 for asbestos abatement at Clifton? Asbestos was at site of proposed new school. Any renovation in FCPS would necessarily involve asbestos--even at West Springfield. I think asbestos is also an issue in trailers.

OH DEAR GOD......what is the big damn deal if your kid has a class in a trailer....GUESS WHAT.....THEY WILL ALL BE IN THEM at Robinson (or every single high school in the county) or have you folks not noticed those????? I can't believe how stupid this argument is and the racist/hate comments you all are making. Way to be ADULTS.

How about giving bus drivers and teachers the PAY RAISE they haven't had in over 3 years...stop freaking WHINING about trailers. There is NO ROOM in the building or wait....you guys will be complaining about overcrowding in the classroom....if you want smaller classes, move to the country or homeschool but for God's sake stop bitching!!!

kulmomto3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OH DEAR GOD......what is the big damn deal if your
> kid has a class in a trailer....GUESS
> WHAT.....THEY WILL ALL BE IN THEM at Robinson (or
> every single high school in the county) or have
> you folks not noticed those????? I can't believe
> how stupid this argument is and the racist/hate
> comments you all are making. Way to be ADULTS.
>
> How about giving bus drivers and teachers the PAY
> RAISE they haven't had in over 3 years...stop
> freaking WHINING about trailers. There is NO ROOM
> in the building or wait....you guys will be
> complaining about overcrowding in the
> classroom....if you want smaller classes, move to
> the country or homeschool but for God's sake stop
> bitching!!!


Hmmm, SO, Because it is inevitable that it is going to happen, we shouldn't talk/debate or argue about it.

This is like saying we know that bridge is going to collapse so we will close it down and divert most of the traffic to the other, older bridge that is already jam packed every day and night.

kulmomto3's argument says that we should have closed the old Woodrow Wilson bridge and sent everybody over the memorial bridge instead, without plans to rebuild Woodrow Wilson. Dum-dum.

My kids had classes in trailers at Fairfax High School and they both
lived to tell about it. In fact, they liked the trailers because of the
peace and quiet. Both of them were accepted at all of the colleges
they applied to and didn't seem to be suffering any Post Traumatic
Stress Syndrome.

Surely you mean PTSD. Your kids cheered on a racist, redneck mascot; Johnnie Reb, Congrats, your trailer trash kids are bigots.

Also, Why are you defending a crappy and what was supposed to be a temporary solution to begin with.

A tee shirt can stop bleeding in a pinch, but Id rather have sterile gauze. Just Sayin'

Big difference from being in a trailer all day and being in one for one period in high school. In elementary school, the kids are in the trailer all day.

When a trailer is necessary and there is no other choice, I can understand. But, to take kids out of bricks and mortar and put them into traileers? DUMB!

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surely you mean PTSD. Your kids cheered on a
> racist, redneck mascot; Johnnie Reb, Congrats,
> your trailer trash kids are bigots.
>
> Also, Why are you defending a crappy and what was
> supposed to be a temporary solution to begin
> with.
>
> A tee shirt can stop bleeding in a pinch, but Id
> rather have sterile gauze. Just Sayin'

----------------------------------------------------------------

I think your new "friends" maybe are used to being in trailers so much and that's why they dont see them as a problem at the schools
Attachments:

about the abstestos: there is a natural line of it that crosses the county just west and south of Fairfax City. When construction happens, you disturb it and it becomes a health hazard

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hd/asb/pdf/asb50.pdf

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairview = oldest elementary in the county?
>
> Main schoolhouse is still in use within the center
> of all of the additions?
>
> Rabbits?
>
> Tree?
>
> Green leprechaun feet on st patties day?
>
> I haven't been up there in years...


I'm not positive but I think Ravensworth Elementry is older.

Ravensworth is only 40 years old or so http://www.fcps.edu/RavensworthES/mainpages/aboutravensworth.htm

Fairview is 112 years old
http://www.fcps.edu/FairviewES/About_Fairview/History.html

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ravensworth is only 40 years old or so
> http://www.fcps.edu/RavensworthES/mainpages/aboutr
> avensworth.htm
>
> Fairview is 112 years old
> http://www.fcps.edu/FairviewES/About_Fairview/Hist
> ory.html

----------------------------
thanks for the lesson, teach ;)

home owner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 500,000 is nothing compared to the cost of moving
>
> > those kids. Asbestos is no big deal if it isn't
>
> > disturbed anyway
>
> He is right. If it is not crumbling, it's fine.
> Lots of buildings have asbestos. Getting rid of
> it is expensive because you have to disturb it.
> Covering it is fine.


It is astonishing that people have the audacity to speak on a topic that they clearly have no idea about.
The asbestos certificate that expires in July will not be renewed because of dozens of friable items that were indurated at the last inspection. The real crime here is that we have parents that are willing to risk their childrens lives just to have their "own" county school.
CES should have been closed 10+ years ago.

Where is the information about the asbestos at Clifton?

I only heard about the asbestos at the supposed building site.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [image of trailer park]

It's not clear to me why so many people are "down" on trailer parks - those homes appeal to me a LOT more than apartments, condos, townhouses, or duplexes! (I could NEVER see myself buying a condo, for example)

My current single-family is probably valued around $600,000-ish right now, but push come to shove I think living in a trailer park would be just fine if necessary.

And WAY inexpensive for a "single family" home.

geez, I wonder why.................
Attachments:

county maintenance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It is astonishing that people have the audacity to
> speak on a topic that they clearly have no idea
> about.
> The asbestos certificate that expires in July will
> not be renewed because of dozens of friable items
> that were indurated at the last inspection. The
> real crime here is that we have parents that are
> willing to risk their childrens lives just to have
> their "own" county school.
> CES should have been closed 10+ years ago.

+1, closing CES is the fiscally prudent thing to do. They're a loud vocal minority, that's for sure. Looks like their frivolous lawsuit is going nowhere, except wasting our tax dollars, as is the bs FOIAs that revealed nothing. It'll be a happy day for many of us county residents when that school is shuttered once and for all.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Also, I cant wait to hear the bitching and
> ranting form Clifton parents when they realize how
> truly awful Crevanna Oaks is.


I thought it was a fairly small section. Does the LIH extend past 'Crevanna' onto Oak Ladder, Oak Green, etc.? Or is it just the fact that it borders the school property?

former teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Big difference from being in a trailer all day and
> being in one for one period in high school. In
> elementary school, the kids are in the trailer all
> day.
>
> When a trailer is necessary and there is no other
> choice, I can understand. But, to take kids out
> of bricks and mortar and put them into traileers?
> DUMB!


Exactly, I had two back-to-back classes in trailers in high school, and it was extremely cold in them during the windy wintry days. But I was 17-18 years old at the time; I can't imagine 5-8 year olds in them ALL DAY LONG.

Besides, there are plenty of schools in FCPS that are older than Clifton ES AND have fewer students, yet those schools are allowed to keep keeping on. There is something behind this, whether it's a personal vendetta by L. Bradsher, a lucrative money making venture for the site or some other reason.

Way back when, some kids in Clifton actually went to Fairview before being sent to Clifton, and the parents referred to Fairview as the "Country Club School," so I don't think Fairview is much different than Clifton, just going to be 115% capacity as opposed to Clifton's current 98% capacity. . .

@you're right

If the same level of "fiscal prudence" was applied to any other action by FCPS I would think many would support it, but the reality is that prudence is not typically applied. Clifton was singled out due to a long-standing personal issue that Liz Bradsher has with the community. You should read her Patch interview on the topic and you will see that she is just as emotional if not more so than the Clifton Elementary community. She made a point of saying how she had the guts to say no to a community that supposively never had been told no. Yet now she is getting a middle school built in her backyard where there is no need. If the same fiscal prudence and focus had gone in to the analysis on South County, a middle school would not be in the construction process and the surrounding schools would not have the level of underutilization they currently have (and will continue to have after South County Middle is completed). Also, no one has mentioned "ownership" of the school by Clifton but ask anyone with children that lives in a community in Fairfax County if they believe they have a vested interest in the local elementary school and their answer will likely be yes. If pride in community equals ownership, then so be it. I personally believe that if more took responsibility for their communities we all would be in a better place
.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
>
> ----------------------------
> thanks for the lesson, teach ;)


Now thats GOOD stuff! Lol

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ravensworth is only 40 years old or so
> http://www.fcps.edu/RavensworthES/mainpages/aboutr
> avensworth.htm
>
> Fairview is 112 years old
> http://www.fcps.edu/FairviewES/About_Fairview/Hist
> ory.html


Ravensworth ES was built in 1963, so it's pushing 50 years old.

There may have been a school on the Fairview site for 112 years, but the original part of the current school (surrounded by later additions) was built in 1938.

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @you're right
>
> If the same level of "fiscal prudence" was applied
> to any other action by FCPS I would think many
> would support it, but the reality is that prudence
> is not typically applied. Clifton was singled out
> due to a long-standing personal issue that Liz
> Bradsher has with the community. You should read
> her Patch interview on the topic and you will see
> that she is just as emotional if not more so than
> the Clifton Elementary community. She made a
> point of saying how she had the guts to say no to
> a community that supposively never had been told
> no. Yet now she is getting a middle school built
> in her backyard where there is no need. If the
> same fiscal prudence and focus had gone in to the
> analysis on South County, a middle school would
> not be in the construction process and the
> surrounding schools would not have the level of
> underutilization they currently have (and will
> continue to have after South County Middle is
> completed). Also, no one has mentioned
> "ownership" of the school by Clifton but ask
> anyone with children that lives in a community in
> Fairfax County if they believe they have a vested
> interest in the local elementary school and their
> answer will likely be yes. If pride in community
> equals ownership, then so be it. I personally
> believe that if more took responsibility for their
> communities we all would be in a better place
> .
Exactly, Garfield ES is older than Clifton ES AND has fewer students, yet no one is rallying to close it and send the kids to either Crestwood and/or Forestdale, which are just up the road. Garfield, however, is probably a Title 1 school and gets federal funding, while Clifton doesn't, maybe that's a big difference, too. Plus, Liz B. doesn't run in the same circle with the vast majority of Central Springfield residents, so there's no one there that she would have a personal vendetta against, as opposed to the Cliftonites who Liz B. wishes she were, LOL!

questioner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where is the information about the asbestos at
> Clifton?
>
> I only heard about the asbestos at the supposed
> building site.


Most if not all county buildings have asbestos. All county maintenance employees have to attend an asbestos awareness class each year. We are told that a current asbestos information binder is required by law to be available at the main office of each building.
This binder contains info about where the asbestos is located and what materials contain it. There is a certificate in the back that is issued by a federal agency that proves the building has been inspected and is safe. This certificate must be renewed every 10 years. There is no way in the world that CES would stand a chance of being re certified without millions of dollars in remediation work.
It is too little and too late to perform the work now. CES did not get the summertime remediation work that the other older schools have gotten over the last 8 years or so because the plan to close CES has been in place for some time.
Any citizen can come to the main office of CES, sign in and ask to see the asbestos binder.

county maintenance wrote:

It is too little and too late to perform the work now. CES did not get the summertime remediation work that the other older schools have gotten over the last 8 years or so because the plan to close CES has been in place for some time.



So, FCPS has INTENTIONALLY neglected CES for years in order to close the school? Would love to know the real reason for the school closing. It's not any of the BS reasons the school board stated. You seem to know so much - what's the real reason Tisdadt wanted this school closed so badly?

If the courts deem the SB vote was not valid they may need to listen to the community.

Parents from all the schools involved are now so mad the SB would need to vote yes in keeping Clifton open.

clifton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> county maintenance wrote:
>
> It is too little and too late to perform the work
> now. CES did not get the summertime remediation
> work that the other older schools have gotten over
> the last 8 years or so because the plan to close
> CES has been in place for some time.
>
>
>
> So, FCPS has INTENTIONALLY neglected CES for years
> in order to close the school? Would love to know
> the real reason for the school closing. It's not
> any of the BS reasons the school board stated.
> You seem to know so much - what's the real reason
> Tisdadt wanted this school closed so badly?


CP please understand that CES has been slated for closure for years because it is an old school in a very poor location. The hill is very difficult in wintertime and there have been 5 fatal crashes and countless non fatal crashes at the intersection with Clifton Rd.
The citizens of this county are best served by its closure and demolition. You would agree had you lost a family member to that dangerous school entrance.
It would have been wastefull to spend remidiation money on CES.

county maintenance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CP please understand that CES has been slated for
> closure for years because it is an old school in a
> very poor location. The hill is very difficult in
> wintertime and there have been 5 fatal crashes and
> countless non fatal crashes at the intersection
> with Clifton Rd.
> The citizens of this county are best served by its
> closure and demolition. You would agree had you
> lost a family member to that dangerous school
> entrance.
> It would have been wastefull to spend remidiation
> money on CES.


The only reason our school entrance is dangerous is those grubby motherfucking maniacs from Prince Ghetto County.

The only thing that needs to be closed down here is that goddamned bridge.

@county maintenance:

If the school had been slated for closure for years then why did the county go through a process that involved thousands of hours of citizen and FCPS employee time? As I have said before in similar threads, if FCPS has a position and if the School Board supports that position prior to community engagement, don't bother with the community opinion because it clearly doesn't matter and the process that gets executed does nothing but further fuel the anger that exists for FCPS administration.

You do seem quite in the know. Curious about the fatal accidents you note at the entrance to the school? You do realize the drives into Robinson off of Sideburn Road are steeper than the Clifton elementary driveway or Clifton Road at the entrance to the school, yes?

All these talks about wrecks reminds me of one of the justifications to get Navy out of Chantilly during the South Lakes fiasco. Tistadt came up with that at one point. Only problem is that most of the cars are turning across traffic--away from the direction the Navy kids would go. Woodson had far more problems than Chantilly. I think Marshall does, too.

Also, I am sure there are lots of schools with more wrecks than Clifton. There are also a lot of schools that require a LOT more traffic control-police, crossing guards, etc.

> CP please understand that CES has been slated for
> closure for years because it is an old school in a
> very poor location. The hill is very difficult in
> wintertime and there have been 5 fatal crashes and
> countless non fatal crashes at the intersection
> with Clifton Rd.
> The citizens of this county are best served by its
> closure and demolition. You would agree had you
> lost a family member to that dangerous school
> entrance.
> It would have been wastefull to spend remidiation
> money on CES.


I'm sorry, but you must have missed the part where Fairfax County granted Clifton Elementary Historic Designation, thereby eliminating the possibility of demolition. Score one for Clifton.

As for fatal accidents at the school entrance, cite them. I've lived in Fairfax County for close to 30 years, the last 5 of which have been in Clifton. Not once have I ever heard of a fatal accident at the entrance to the school due to the 'dangerous' entrance. Prove it!

The location is poor? Tell that to the 377 kids that attend CES and are going from a 20-30 minute bus ride to almost an hour. Poor location my ass! If the location is so poor, why build another school 2 miles away at Liberty. Try again.

As for the asbestos, go back and read the collusion by Liz Bradsher thread. In the FOIA emails, you'll read one from Kevin Sneed that states that the asbestos remidiation for CES was already included in the estimated cost to renovate CES that the school board used to close the school. The PROBLEM with the cost to renovate was that it was going to be too expensive based on the cost per student.
The PROBLEM with their cost per student is that FCPS manipulated the projected enrollment figures to make sure that the cost per student would be too high. Had FCPS used the REAL figures for enrollment, the cost per student is actually LESS than several schools being renovated right now.

Too old????? Are you effing kidding me???? My kids are being sent to a school even OLDER THAN CES!!!! Don't give me some bullshit excuse that the building is too old. Now you're beginning to sound like Kathy Smith: "It's too old, it's too expensive....."
BULLSHIT AND MORE BULLSHIT!

CM, you understand this. This community was lied to repeatedly by Liz Bradsher and her cronies at FCPS for the past 2 years. You think we're bitter because "our" school is closing. Yeah, that's a very minor part of it. The main reason so many people are so pissed off about this entire situation is because OUR representative lied to our faces, over and over again leading us to believe that if we did 'X', everything would be fine....your school will be saved. Tell us an HONEST effin reason for this school to close, and be honest about it from the beginning, and we wouldn't be where we are now. The fact remains that there is NO legitimate reason to close this school. It WILL cost MORE to close this school than it would to keep it open. Both monetary expense and educational expense. Mega-schools aren't serving our children, and that is exactly where we're headed. Yes, Ms. Bradsher, we don't like mega-schools, regardless of how well your children did in one.

Quit making up bogus excuses and prove some hard facts for closing this school. I have yet to see or hear a true reason, from anyone. Everyone outside of this situation acts like Clifton is made up of 2200 homes of selfish, unreasonable people. You couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact is there isn't a reasonable explanation. Give us one.

herewegoagain, why do you care so much about this shithole school? I hope the county uses it as a halfway house for sex offenders or something.
I have worked for the county for 12 years and for the last 8 years they have told us to avoid spending money on CES because its gonna be closed soon.
The hvac equipment is bareley hanging on, the kitchen equipment is shot, the roof has 100's of patches, the floor tiles are asbestos in half the school. Why would a responsible parent want to send their kid there?

I live in Clifton and can not remember a fatal crash in front of the school ever. I call BS.

The commuters from PWC are the problem. They love to yak on their cell phones on a two lane curvy road. They are always crossing over the double line into oncoming traffic. I just blow my horn at them. If they would pay attention it would be great.

I wish they would outlaw cell phones and driving at the same time. Maybe a jamming device should be required in cars unless your engine is turned off or only for 911 calls.

I've lived around here a LOOOOOOONG time and I dont recall any fatalities at that entrance either.................

but I would reckon that yes, that hill is a complete bitch in the wintertime



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 09:24AM by Gordon Blvd.

county maintenance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain, why do you care so much about this
> shithole school? I hope the county uses it as a
> halfway house for sex offenders or something.
> I have worked for the county for 12 years and for
> the last 8 years they have told us to avoid
> spending money on CES because its gonna be closed
> soon.
> The hvac equipment is bareley hanging on, the
> kitchen equipment is shot, the roof has 100's of
> patches, the floor tiles are asbestos in half the
> school. Why would a responsible parent want to
> send their kid there?


Why do I care so much about this school? I could start listing the reasons, but they are all besides the point. You're still missing the point here. This is a matter of principal and being lied to, manipulated and UNREPRESENTED for the past 2 years.

You still haven't given us a legitimate reason to close this school. Asbestos floor tiles??? If that's the best you can come up, you're proving my point for me. There is NO legitimate reason to close this school. EVERY school in FCPS that was built more than 20-30 years ago has asbestos floor tiles. For that matter, so does every hospital and public building in this area. Are we closing them down also?? No. Another bullshit excuse.

If FCPS was so concerned about asbestos, why were they so willing to build a new school on top of asbestos, disturbing the soil, thereby endangering the kids right next door at Liberty MS? According the Tisdadt, Bradsher and Sneed, FCPS has plenty of experience dealing with asbestos, it's not a problem.

For you to sit here and tell us that FCPS intentionally neglected the building, WHILE CHILDREN ARE STILL ATTENDING, is paramount to child endangerment.

If CES is in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did the maintenance staff receive an award this year for their OUTSTANDING MAINTENANCE OF THE BUILDING? If CES is ticking timebomb as you would like us to believe, why have children been allowed to attend this long?

I will give you that the hill can be a bitch in the winter. However, considering the fact that Clifton Rd. is a Snow Emergency Route and therefore one of the 1st roads in the county that gets plowed, that excuse is lame also.

So tired of the bullshit excuses. It won't cost more per student to renovate. There aren't any issues with the water. The enrollment didn't decline, in fact it went UP! There are plenty of schools that are older and have the same amount of asbestos........ I could go on and on.

The fact is, you have yet to tell us why someone (Tisdadt?? Bradsher??) has such a hard-on to close this school. What, did Tisdadt attend CES as a child and got bullied or something? Or is it that Bradsher is bitter because her family once owned land in Clifton and sold it off to developers? Whatever the reason, we'd love to know. Just stop with the BS excuses that nobody is buying anymore, including those that don't live in Clifton.

Car crashes? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in Clifton and can not remember a fatal
> crash in front of the school ever. I call BS.
>
> The commuters from PWC are the problem. They love
> to yak on their cell phones on a two lane curvy
> road. They are always crossing over the double
> line into oncoming traffic. I just blow my horn at
> them. If they would pay attention it would be
> great.
>
> I wish they would outlaw cell phones and driving
> at the same time. Maybe a jamming device should be
> required in cars unless your engine is turned off
> or only for 911 calls.


Brad Kache (spelling on last name?) 1996 though in full disclosure, he fell asleep at the wheel and it had nothing to do with the enterance to the school.. But it happened, right there on Clifton road.

Winter is really not much of an excuse around here. They close at the slightest snow anyway.

I grew up in the north and you should have seen the hill we had to go up to my school. It makes anything around here look like a bump. None of us died on that hill BTW (and we got pretty good SAT scores too). You adjust to your surroundings. Clifton people know their hills. Kinda like Afghanis know their mountains. Enough of the weiner whining about hills and snow! It's so wimpy it's embarrassing.

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> county maintenance Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > herewegoagain, why do you care so much about
> this
> > shithole school? I hope the county uses it as a
> > halfway house for sex offenders or something.
> > I have worked for the county for 12 years and
> for
> > the last 8 years they have told us to avoid
> > spending money on CES because its gonna be
> closed
> > soon.
> > The hvac equipment is bareley hanging on, the
> > kitchen equipment is shot, the roof has 100's
> of
> > patches, the floor tiles are asbestos in half
> the
> > school. Why would a responsible parent want to
> > send their kid there?
>
>
> Why do I care so much about this school? I could
> start listing the reasons, but they are all
> besides the point. You're still missing the point
> here. This is a matter of principal and being
> lied to, manipulated and UNREPRESENTED for the
> past 2 years.
>
> You still haven't given us a legitimate reason to
> close this school. Asbestos floor tiles??? If
> that's the best you can come up, you're proving my
> point for me. There is NO legitimate reason to
> close this school. EVERY school in FCPS that was
> built more than 20-30 years ago has asbestos floor
> tiles. For that matter, so does every hospital
> and public building in this area. Are we closing
> them down also?? No. Another bullshit excuse.
>
>
> If FCPS was so concerned about asbestos, why were
> they so willing to build a new school on top of
> asbestos, disturbing the soil, thereby endangering
> the kids right next door at Liberty MS? According
> the Tisdadt, Bradsher and Sneed, FCPS has plenty
> of experience dealing with asbestos, it's not a
> problem.
>
> For you to sit here and tell us that FCPS
> intentionally neglected the building, WHILE
> CHILDREN ARE STILL ATTENDING, is paramount to
> child endangerment.
>
> If CES is in such a horrible state of disrepair,
> then why did the maintenance staff receive an
> award this year for their OUTSTANDING MAINTENANCE
> OF THE BUILDING? If CES is ticking timebomb as
> you would like us to believe, why have children
> been allowed to attend this long?
>
> I will give you that the hill can be a bitch in
> the winter. However, considering the fact that
> Clifton Rd. is a Snow Emergency Route and
> therefore one of the 1st roads in the county that
> gets plowed, that excuse is lame also.
>
> So tired of the bullshit excuses. It won't cost
> more per student to renovate. There aren't any
> issues with the water. The enrollment didn't
> decline, in fact it went UP! There are plenty of
> schools that are older and have the same amount of
> asbestos........ I could go on and on.
>
> The fact is, you have yet to tell us why someone
> (Tisdadt?? Bradsher??) has such a hard-on to
> close this school. What, did Tisdadt attend CES
> as a child and got bullied or something? Or is it
> that Bradsher is bitter because her family once
> owned land in Clifton and sold it off to
> developers? Whatever the reason, we'd love to
> know. Just stop with the BS excuses that nobody
> is buying anymore, including those that don't live
> in Clifton.

herewegoagain I guess I should give up this arguement- hell I live in Fauquier but I work for this county. The award that was given was to the custodial staff which has nothing to do with maintenance technicians, we work at many schools.
I would love to see CES gone or remodeled one or the other. We have been told it was closing so we made lots of temporary and energy wastefull repairs to this property, we took used stuff from other schools and used it there. I can tell you that the pipe insulation starting to flake away in many spots. I dont think the remidiation inspection will pass but who knows?
I can tell you the rumors about CES closing started about 8 years ago and the "patch it up cheap" plan went into effect about 2 or 3 years ago. I have always heard that there were bad crashes at the school drive entrance but I personally saw one crash that involved the milk delivery truck and a county IT van.

Good luck to you.

so how come the Richie Richs of Clifton couldnt just pay out their own pocket and fix up the school - that's what I wanna know.
Attachments:

I wish everyone on this board could take a look at Clifton elementary school. The school is great and not a mess like the SB wants you to think it is.

Jack Dale and the SB lied. They love to tell you it is raining while they piss on your leg.

Keep CES open.

Gordon Blvd!! If I knew your middle name, I would throw that in too! I've read your other posts and almost always agree with you, but even when I don't, I can see your point of view. You seem like a level headed, common sense kind of guy. So why do I suddenly feel the need to treat you like an insolent child?

First of all, not everyone in Clifton is rich. Yes, there are alot of McMansions, but there are just as many very modest older homes in Clifton that middle class families live in. Just because they don't stand out when you're driving by, doesn't mean they aren't there.

Second of all, Clifton residents pay taxes just like everyone else living in Fairfax County. If you want to get really technical about it, Clifton residents (because they do have more land than most) probably pay MORE in taxes than most county residents and Clifton receives very little in return as far as County services go.

C'mon Gordon, you're not an idiot. Surely you can do better than name calling and false assumptions.

county maintenance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain, why do you care so much about this
> shithole school? I hope the county uses it as a
> halfway house for sex offenders or something.
> I have worked for the county for 12 years and for
> the last 8 years they have told us to avoid
> spending money on CES because its gonna be closed
> soon.
> The hvac equipment is bareley hanging on, the
> kitchen equipment is shot, the roof has 100's of
> patches, the floor tiles are asbestos in half the
> school. Why would a responsible parent want to
> send their kid there?


Dude, the herewegoagain is a Troll. He has some sort of hardon about clifton. Just ignore him. Don't feed the trolls.

Yes,yes I do.

I never understood why the residents of Clifton hype the place up so much. It ain't that nice.

I agree sending your kids to elementary school miles away isnt convenient, but at the same time I think CES is too expensive to maintain at this point.

Since you do not live here you don't get it. I am OK with that.

I was going to explain all that is great with Clifton and those that I love who live near me but you would need to live here to understand.

I am sure you love your little area too. When the gov't tries to mess with what you have you get mad. We are allowed to fight for what we feel is wrong. It is not just for our children but for our town. I hope you would do the same if it happened to you.

I am over the school closing. I am happy my kids are going to another great Fairfax school. It is going to be large and be tight but I guess that is what FCPS wants. I will live and still be in a great area.

clif-town Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never understood why the residents of Clifton
> hype the place up so much. It ain't that nice.
>
> I agree sending your kids to elementary school
> miles away isnt convenient, but at the same time I
> think CES is too expensive to maintain at this
> point.


Please don't visit.

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd!! If I knew your middle name, I would
> throw that in too! I've read your other posts and
> almost always agree with you, but even when I
> don't, I can see your point of view. You seem
> like a level headed, common sense kind of guy. So
> why do I suddenly feel the need to treat you like
> an insolent child?
>
> First of all, not everyone in Clifton is rich.
> Yes, there are alot of McMansions, but there are
> just as many very modest older homes in Clifton
> that middle class families live in. Just because
> they don't stand out when you're driving by,
> doesn't mean they aren't there.
>
> Second of all, Clifton residents pay taxes just
> like everyone else living in Fairfax County. If
> you want to get really technical about it, Clifton
> residents (because they do have more land than
> most) probably pay MORE in taxes than most county
> residents and Clifton receives very little in
> return as far as County services go.
>
> C'mon Gordon, you're not an idiot. Surely you can
> do better than name calling and false assumptions.

-=-------------------------------------------------------------------------

so ok, are you telling me the answer to my question is "because they couldnt afford to?"

if that's the answer, then ok - dont need to get all huffy about it

calm blue ocean, my friend :)

and you darn well know why I think cliftonites are rich so knock it off.........

The SB will soon vote on other small schools that need to close. Since Clifton is closing so should they. I think we should make it fair. Soon it will just be huge schools everywhere in Fairfax. They will all be run like prisons too.

small schools Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The SB will soon vote on other small schools that
> need to close. Since Clifton is closing so should
> they. I think we should make it fair. Soon it will
> just be huge schools everywhere in Fairfax. They
> will all be run like prisons too.


It will do the clifton kids good to get out ot that school. They are a bunch of l selfish little brats. It will do them good to get a few ass beatings from the normal kids.

burkeeeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> small schools Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The SB will soon vote on other small schools
> that
> > need to close. Since Clifton is closing so
> should
> > they. I think we should make it fair. Soon it
> will
> > just be huge schools everywhere in Fairfax.
> They
> > will all be run like prisons too.
>
>
> It will do the clifton kids good to get out ot
> that school. They are a bunch of l selfish little
> brats. It will do them good to get a few ass
> beatings from the normal kids.

--------------------------------------

do either of you morons have and proof to back up your asshole allegations?

...................didnt think so.

The Clifton kids are moving into some great schools. It is not like CPE.

There are moving into great schools. We all agree on that and Clifton parents were never worried about the quality of the schools our kids would be moved to. That's not the point, never was.

Where do the students spend their day on a day like today?

We have tornado watch until 3 p.m.......

where are the kids? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where do the students spend their day on a day
> like today?
>
> We have tornado watch until 3 p.m.......

--------------------

up in the air, maybe :(

Another reason not to close Clifton.

The Judge is hearing on the case this Friday. The arguments are on if Jack Dale violated the FIOA laws and if so the SB will need to vote again.

I am hoping the Judge favors in the kids/CES direction. It would teach our SB a lesson.

There is no reason to close Clifton. It would involve moving hundreds of kids and make many of the schools bigger plus with trailers too. Shame on FCPS for not doing the right thing in the first place.

And why your hatred for the principal? Is it because your little brat was one of those kids who constantly misbehaves and the principal reamed you out for your irresponsibility as a parent? The principal needs to do more of that with some of the parents, as do most principals in the county. I for one am sick and tired of parent bitching, believing that their little Johnny or Mary can do no wrong. Many cases of bullying and the bullier can be traced back to this "Johnny can do no wrong" syndrome. So go pay attention to your kid! And quit your own bitching!

get rid of Easter Bunny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe they'll get rid of that principal while they
> are cleaning house. We all thought Dr. Scott was
> bad!

_______________
My last comment was directed towards the above

Anyone dare to comment about her?

I know the principal at Union Mill is leaving and Mrs Miller may be the new principal at Union Mill.

I teacher told me she is very hard to work for. She comes across as bitchy. I have never had a problem with her but I have never had a problem at CES with anyone.

where are the kids? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where do the students spend their day on a day
> like today?
>
> We have tornado watch until 3 p.m.......

Make Dale and his cronies work in trailers on days like today.

Dale and his cronies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> where are the kids? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where do the students spend their day on a day
> > like today?
> >
> > We have tornado watch until 3 p.m.......
>
> Make Dale and his cronies work in trailers on days
> like today.

------------------------------------------------

oh please - you know they feel they are way better than the children they "represent"

LoLz

Another reason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another reason not to close Clifton.
>
> The Judge is hearing on the case this Friday. The
> arguments are on if Jack Dale violated the FIOA
> laws and if so the SB will need to vote again.
>
> I am hoping the Judge favors in the kids/CES
> direction. It would teach our SB a lesson.
>
> There is no reason to close Clifton. It would
> involve moving hundreds of kids and make many of
> the schools bigger plus with trailers too. Shame
> on FCPS for not doing the right thing in the first
> place.


CES should be converted to a senior center. It will be good for the Clifton kids to get out of that selfish elitist atmosphere.