http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/10/AR2011031006272.html

Moral to the story - if your child makes an honest mistake like this in FCPS; get a good lawyer ASAP, assume an adversarial relationship, pull them out of school immediately, get counseling for your child to help them deal with the inevitable emotional trauma, and look for other educational options.

Good schools and in-school administration (principal, VP, etc.) may still exist in some places, but common sense and good judgement has been neutered at the pyramid and district level.

The crushing upper administration has the principals scared of using common sense. To make matters worse, said administration hires people who have no common sense in order to ensure their own jobs. Shame. People with brains have no chance in this system. They leave or hide.

It was antibiotics.

This story is another case where common sense was not used by our SB.

Her parents had to hire a lawyer and she missed seven weeks of school.

We should all be mad.

I don't know anything about this kid, the school, parents, etc but I am disgusted by the FCPS admin and their hiding behind their interpreation of the law. I recall the mantra of "what would a reasonable person do" in determining how to treat students, parents, etc. No reasonable person would think that an incident like this raised to the level of expulsion or even suspension.

This is symptomatic of the whole attitude of the FCPS admin, if they treat students and parents like this, just imagine how they must treat teachers.

I am so glad I am no longer associated with FCPS.

Good lord - another loser decides she doesn't have to follow the rules, gets caught not following the rules, and gets reams and reams of sympathetic press and messaging traffic saying it's okay for her to not follow the rules and that school administration is evil.

Wrong.

The kid is evil.

Her parents are evil.

I don't want her anywhere near a school with GOOD kids in it.

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good lord - another loser decides she doesn't have
> to follow the rules, gets caught not following the
> rules, and gets reams and reams of sympathetic
> press and messaging traffic saying it's okay for
> her to not follow the rules and that school
> administration is evil.
>
> Wrong.
>
> The kid is evil.
>
> Her parents are evil.
>
> I don't want her anywhere near a school with GOOD
> kids in it.


a bit harsh, isn't it?
It seems to me from the article, if I read it correctly, the mom is the one who made the mistake, telling the daughter to go ahead and take the pills to school.
This isn't the end of the world. If I was Haley I'd use it as a learning experience and go on to become a lawyer and specialize in defending kids in this type situation. She will have a chip on her shoulder and maybe win some lawsuits against the District.

I blame the parents, even in elementary school the rules are very, very clear that all medicines should be handled through the nurse's office. I'm sorry about the penalty in this case, it was certainly overblown and I feel bad for the kid. But parents please have some sense, all this is avoidable by following extremely simple rules.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good lord - another loser decides she doesn't have
> to follow the rules, gets caught not following the
> rules, and gets reams and reams of sympathetic
> press and messaging traffic saying it's okay for
> her to not follow the rules and that school
> administration is evil.
>
> Wrong.
>
> The kid is evil.
>
> Her parents are evil.
>
> I don't want her anywhere near a school with GOOD
> kids in it.

The kid is evil?!? Really?!? You're a fucking idiot. The girl may be stupid for having medication in her locker, especially with dumb cunt catty bitches around her that snitched her out for some stupid high school shit, but she's not evil.

What happened to common sense and due process in this country?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The three enemies of the people are hegemony, monogamy, and monotony."-Terence McKenna

Teh King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> especially with dumb
> cunt catty bitches around her that snitched her
> out for some stupid high school shit

This too, wtf is up with that?

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

Here's the reality of the situation: The school has these policies in place to prevent kids from bringing Percoset or Vicodin or other prescription narcotics to school. It's a safe assumption that someone's precious snowflake has, at one time, tried to bring drugs to school in a prescription bottle marked as some sort of antibiotic.

These stories come up about once every three months. Kid had acne medication/birth control/tylenol, fails to register it with the nurse per school policy, gets caught with it, gets in trouble. Everyone knows this happens, because the media makes a big fucking deal out of it every time it does. At some point, you'd think parents and kids would exercise the tiniest scrap of common sense. Which is easier: Registering your prescription with the nurse to avoid any problems, or spending a lot of time and money arguing why the school shouldn't make a big deal about your child failing to follow the rules?

I would love to live in a world where the school administrators would look at this girl's situation, call it an innocent mistake, and she just registers her pills with the nurse. However, if she gave one of these antibiotics to a friend to help with their acne, and said friend had a bad reaction to it, the friend's parents would sue the shit out of the school and probably Acne Girl's parents. Then everyone would scream for stricter policies on drugs (prescription or otherwise) in school, and we're right back here.

Kids: Follow the rules.

Parents: Tell your kids to follow the rules.

Dumbasses: Continue to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teh King Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > especially with dumb
> > cunt catty bitches around her that snitched her
> > out for some stupid high school shit
>
> This too, wtf is up with that?

and what was up with the minor petty hearing officials asking her about drama, drama, drama and her interest in boys? WTF was up with that?

Not even high school. 7th grade. Good gawd.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teh King Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > especially with dumb
> > cunt catty bitches around her that snitched her
> > out for some stupid high school shit
>
> This too, wtf is up with that?

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Fire Jack Dale.

Fire Dana Scanlan.

Elect a new school board.

There is no fixing this train wreck of a school district.

These morons have ruined the fine reputation this school district ONCE had.

Shame on them.

Kids, hang in there, help is on the way. Not all adults are idiots, I promise.

^^
although Mr. Mephisto makes some excellent points above, much of which I have to agree with - still:
suspending her for 7 weeks, resulting in a "D" in Algebra, and an "F" in Spanish serves no one's purposes, and how ironic is it to transfer her from a fine school to one with known gang related issues? - yeah, that'll teach her.

heads need to roll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no fixing this train wreck of a school
> district.
>
> These morons have ruined the fine reputation this
> school district ONCE had.

Ah, yes. The school district sucks SO BAD that one of the schools was ranked "best in the nation."

And when are JACK DALE and the REST of HIS CRONIES going to START TEACHING PARENTS some COMMON SENSE and HOW TO RAISE THEIR CHILDREN?!

> Kids, hang in there, help is on the way. Not all
> adults are idiots, I promise.

Doesn't sound like you're the best person to be offering that advice.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

centervillebubba Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^
> although Mr. Mephisto makes some excellent points
> above, much of which I have to agree with -
> still:
> suspending her for 7 weeks, resulting in a "D" in
> Algebra, and an "F" in Spanish serves no one's
> purposes, and how ironic is it to transfer her
> from a fine school to one with known gang related
> issues? - yeah, that'll teach her.

She doesn't sound like a bad kid, but for the rules to stick, they need to apply to everyone equally. If they let her back in school, they have to let the fuck-up kids back in school, too.

Her parents also requested the transfer. From the article:

Few other Virginia systems, for example, use school transfers as routinely as Fairfax does as part of the disciplinary process, according to the state Department of Education.

So which is worse: A couple bad grades and a fresh start next year at a new school, or being unable to return to any school for a year?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Private school is the way to go.

As the Red Queen would say "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"

What's with the finding that she put students/staff in jeopardy? I could see that if another kid had access to these pills and could have had an allergic reaction to them but that was not the case, the pills were inaccessible to other students. As far as the staff goes I hope they don't find random pills in a locker and start popping them, I don't see any other way that the staff was put in jeopardy by this.

What does her having a boyfriend or being interested in boys have to do with this, isn't every seventh grade girl interested in boys and concerned with how they look?

BB*X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's with the finding that she put
> students/staff in jeopardy?

> isn't every seventh grade girl interested in boys and
> concerned with how they look?

You just answered your own question.

Acne Girl's BFF: "Those pills are for acne? Can I have one? Billy Thurmond is taking me to the sock hop this Friday."

Acne Girl: "Sure. Here you go."

Acne Girl's BFF: "ALLERGIC REACTION! NO ME GUSTA! BLARGHARGHARARAGH!"

Acne Girl's BFF's Parents: "WE'RE SUING."

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

BB*X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's with the finding that she put
> students/staff in jeopardy? I could see that if
> another kid had access to these pills and could
> have had an allergic reaction to them but that was
> not the case, the pills were inaccessible to other
> students. As far as the staff goes I hope they
> don't find random pills in a locker and start
> popping them, I don't see any other way that the
> staff was put in jeopardy by this.
>
> What does her having a boyfriend or being
> interested in boys have to do with this, isn't
> every seventh grade girl interested in boys and
> concerned with how they look?


right. And what was that business with "drama, drama, drama"?
Were they suggesting she made an issue out of this publicly and caused the school district embarrassment? I didn't see what they were getting at there.

This insanity has got to stop. Yes, having the medication in her locker was violating school district policy, but it was an antibiotic, it was sitting there, not being shared or sold, and there was no deliberate motive to do harm to others (unlike FCPS school board members).

The hearing officer over-reacted in questioning this student, and the hearing board was unreasonable in their comments and decision about her.

Why are these mentally disturbed administrators allowed to continue working with students and/or make decisions that have tremendous impact on students' lives? They don't care about helping kids. This has gotten out of control in Fairfax County.

When will this insanity stop? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This insanity has got to stop. Yes, having the
> medication in her locker was violating school
> district policy, but it was an antibiotic, it was
> sitting there, not being shared or sold, and there
> was no deliberate motive to do harm to others
> (unlike FCPS school board members).
>
> The hearing officer over-reacted in questioning
> this student, and the hearing board was
> unreasonable in their comments and decision about
> her.
>
> Why are these mentally disturbed administrators
> allowed to continue working with students and/or
> make decisions that have tremendous impact on
> students' lives? They don't care about helping
> kids. This has gotten out of control in Fairfax
> County.

Then take your little opinions and get elected to the school board. That way, you can protect all the little fuck-up snowflakes and make absolutely sure they're in no way prepared for the real world.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

BB*X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does her having a boyfriend or being
> interested in boys have to do with this, isn't
> every seventh grade girl interested in boys and
> concerned with how they look?

That part of the incomplete article is so bizarro it should have some rampant speculation...so let's do it!

Hey!

I know!

Let's PREFACE that totally-weird remark by that admin person with a remark by the bad kid saying she can't leave her current school because she has a boyfriend there!

Ah! That would work!

Now that totally-bizarro remark begins to make sense!

========

Ya get the idea - just because there's an article in some rag or online doesn't mean all the information has been presented.

There are certain things we KNOW - the kid had been suspended once before, she broke the very clear drug rules, she got suspended again, she appealed to prevent expulsion to a school her parents didn't want (?), because of that appeal the suspension was extended until the appeal process finished (all the admin steps and results, of course, are fully documented in the SR&R). Do we know why that bizarro boyfriend interaction took place? No, not really, but the above speculation could be close!

Again, parents looking to blame someone else for shirking their responsibilities.
If the mom said it was ok to break the rules and take the pills to school, she probably is also the type that runs stop signs, parks in a loading zone at the supermarket when it rains and ignores every other rule she chooses because she is special. Enough already.

I'm sick of parents blaming the schools for their kids problems. Parents need to communicate with their kids and help them if there are issues. If the kids don't feel comfortable communicating with their own parents that isn't the school's problem. Teachers and administrators are responsible for dozens of kids on a daily basis and are expected to be surrogate baby sitters and parents as well as educators.

Where does it say that once your kids start school you stop parenting (if they ever actually started parenting)?

Not to mention she left the pills in her locker for 8 months, and the picture in the paper doesn't show any indication of a bad acne problem. So, her acne problem was bad enough that she absolutely had to take them to school so she could take one at lunch, but not bad enough that she could forget they were there for eight months?

Also...

Hayley produced the pills, answered questions in the principal's office and was taken to a room to write a statement. The bottle contained 79 capsules of the 90 prescribed.

"Today they found medicine in my locker from when I had to take one pill at lunch for my skin," she wrote. ". . . It's not bad or anything, I just forgot to take it home. I never told or gave anyone any of them. Notice how there all there and I only took one once."

79 of 90 pills sounds like a little more like 11 pills missing, instead of "one once."

And...

School officials say students are reminded about prohibitions on prescription drugs and take a test to show that they understand concepts in the Student Responsibilities and Rights handbook.

It sounds like her and her parents fucked up, not the school board. Limited sympathy.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Mr M--aka creep. I am tired of your posts, you need to get a life. 17 today and it isn't even lunchtime!

You constantly disrespect women. You hate kids.

You are clearly a lonely, pathetic man with no children or love in your life. Your ugliness is blinding.

If you have the time to post on The FU all day you certainly have the time to visit a shrink.

Save yourself.

CrabbyNative Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again, parents looking to blame someone else for
> shirking their responsibilities.
> If the mom said it was ok to break the rules and
> take the pills to school, she probably is also the
> type that runs stop signs, parks in a loading zone
> at the supermarket when it rains and ignores every
> other rule she chooses because she is special.
> Enough already.
>
> I'm sick of parents blaming the schools for their
> kids problems. Parents need to communicate with
> their kids and help them if there are issues. If
> the kids don't feel comfortable communicating with
> their own parents that isn't the school's problem.
> Teachers and administrators are responsible for
> dozens of kids on a daily basis and are expected
> to be surrogate baby sitters and parents as well
> as educators.
>
> Where does it say that once your kids start school
> you stop parenting (if they ever actually started
> parenting)?


well if this is so obvious you -- and it is to me also -- why take it out on the kid by suspending her for 7 weeks, fucking up her transcript, asking absurd, irrelevant questions at the hearing, and sending her to a gang infested school? Punishment definitely doesn't fit the crime, IMHO.

time to out Mr M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr M--aka creep. I am tired of your posts, you
> need to get a life. 17 today and it isn't even
> lunchtime!
>
> You constantly disrespect women. You hate kids.
>
> You are clearly a lonely, pathetic man with no
> children or love in your life. Your ugliness is
> blinding.
>
> If you have the time to post on The FU all day you
> certainly have the time to visit a shrink.
>
> Save yourself.

I suppose this is better than looking at the argument I'm making, finding some facts or examples to support your own point of view, and composing a well-thought-out retort. Great job!

Which one are you: Whiny kid, or whiny parent?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I am a whiny taxpayer. No kids in FCPS anymore thank God. I do not want to pay for extra administrators and Hearing Officers and layers and layers of sub-Superintendents not to mention Jack Dale and his over the top salary and benefit package - all so they can trample all over the kids and the taxpayers pay them big bucks to do it?

If the kid commits an actual CRIME - say selling Cocaine/Drugs or Weapons or Felony Assault - something they could get arrested for --sure kick them out.

BC pills, Advil, and Antibiotics? Spitballs? get real. These kids will go off to college and have no idea how to cope with life or think for themselves since they have been not only hover-parented but lived under a dictatorship at FCPS.

Let Freedom Ring!

time to out Mr M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr M--aka creep. I am tired of your posts, you
> need to get a life. 17 today and it isn't even
> lunchtime!
>
> You constantly disrespect women. You hate kids.
>
> You are clearly a lonely, pathetic man with no
> children or love in your life. Your ugliness is
> blinding.
>
> If you have the time to post on The FU all day you
> certainly have the time to visit a shrink.
>
> Save yourself.

Don't try to take posting on this board away from him. It's all he's got.

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> The kid is evil.
>
> Her parents are evil.
>
> I don't want her anywhere near a school with GOOD
> kids in it.


Dumbest post EVER! You are either being sarcastic or are incredibly stupid and should NOT procreate.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It sounds like her and her parents fucked up, not
> the school board. Limited sympathy.

Second dumbest post ever, but everyone here already knows you're an idiot.

Duchess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a whiny taxpayer. No kids in FCPS anymore
> thank God. I do not want to pay for extra
> administrators and Hearing Officers and layers and
> layers of sub-Superintendents not to mention Jack
> Dale and his over the top salary and benefit
> package - all so they can trample all over the
> kids and the taxpayers pay them big bucks to do
> it?

Why do you think all of these "extra" positions are necessary?

Because parents have been relinquishing the responsibility to raise their kids to the schools for years now, but have not been giving them the authority to do so. What's left is an institution that's supposed to provide a supportive, healthy learning environment that also has to keep every kid (and their parents) happy at the same time, or face a six-figure-plus lawsuit.

It's the same problem the modern medical system is facing; everyone is yelling at them, "Do it right or we'll sue you." Of course, what's "right" is highly subjective. Where one set of whiny parents will sue over the enforcement of a certain policy, another set will sue if the same policy is not enforced.

The school has to protect itself at some point, or they'll be sued into oblivion. Then there won't BE a school for parents to bitch about.

> If the kid commits an actual CRIME - say selling
> Cocaine/Drugs or Weapons or Felony Assault -
> something they could get arrested for --sure kick
> them out.

Where do you draw the line? You say "sure, kick them out." The parents of the kid caught with cocaine in his locker will argue that the staff should have noticed the warning signs. You can't please both parties, so someone has to mediate. A decision for one side will only piss off the other side.

> BC pills, Advil, and Antibiotics? Spitballs? get
> real. These kids will go off to college and have
> no idea how to cope with life or think for
> themselves since they have been not only
> hover-parented but lived under a dictatorship at
> FCPS.

Oh, irony. College is even worse, except you're paying more out of pocket to send your kid their to fuck up. Do you really think we should be teaching impressionable high school kids that they WON'T lose their scholarship, tuition, job, etc. if they fail to follow basic, clearly defined rules? Especially where drugs are concerned?

People are being fired from their jobs for having pictures on their Facebook pages that show them holding alcoholic beverages. Students and parents want to argue "it's not fair" when students are suspended for violating a clearly-written set of rules, with clearly-defined consequences? Please.

As I've said before, the only people upset about these "zero-tolerance" policies are the ones who willfully choose to break the rules but don't want to accept the consequences, or are incapable of following very simple instructions.

"Register all medication with the nurse." How hard is that?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

shitforbrains Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't try to take posting on this board away from
> him. It's all he's got.

gizmodo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Second dumbest post ever, but everyone here
> already knows you're an idiot.

If I needed any reassurance that I'm right, posts like this would certainly give it to me. If this is really the best opinion you can come up with on such a divisive topice, you clearly have no understanding of what you're crying about.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

rules "R" rules
Don't break them and you won't have it snapped off in your ass,,

Just think,,,This would be a non-issue if the dummy would just follow the rules that are set in place to protect everyone

The punishment does most definitely NOT fit the crime.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do you think all of these "extra" positions
> are necessary?
>
> Because parents have been relinquishing the
> responsibility to raise their kids to the schools
> for years now, but have not been giving them the
> authority to do so. What's left is an institution
> that's supposed to provide a supportive, healthy
> learning environment that also has to keep every
> kid (and their parents) happy at the same time, or
> face a six-figure-plus lawsuit.

There is no point in explaining it. Some things are better left for the idiots to pay the price for. If their kid had taken a pill given to them by another student and suffered some adverse effect, these whiners would be suing FCPS up and down because the school didn't follow this very policy. Just let them suck it.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2011 01:53PM by justsayin.

Duchess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the kid commits an actual CRIME - say selling
> Cocaine/Drugs or Weapons or Felony Assault -
> something they could get arrested for --sure kick
> them out.

That is the way it used to be, then kids got sick and the school system got blamed for not having tougher policies on controlled substances in addition to illegal substances. Now you want to put it back. Well screw you, I'd rather have the tougher rules in place and penalties given than have kids of smarter parents getting hurt.



MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Acne Girl's BFF: "NO ME GUSTA!"

I LOLd.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

may2010 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rules "R" rules
> Don't break them and you won't have it snapped off
> in your ass,,
>
> Just think,,,This would be a non-issue if the
> dummy would just follow the rules that are set in
> place to protect everyone

Jim Crow had rules. So did the Nazis, Aparthied, and pretty much anyone else that is trying to impose their will on someone else. Doesn't make them right.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no point in explaining it. Some things
> are better left for the idiots to pay the price
> for. If their kid had taken a pill given to them
> by another student and suffered some adverse
> effect, these whiners would be suing FCPS up and
> down because the school didn't follow this very
> policy. Just let them suck it.

I'd agree, but these same idiots who sue FCPS because their kid screws up are the same ones that force the schools to adopt stricter policies and focus on protecting themselves from litigation. It's a vicious cycle that will never end until the parents start doing their job as parents.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

This is why we don't take Mr. McIdiot seriously......

He is such a hater.

***********************************************************



Re: How warm must it be for you to wear shorts?
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: March 05, 2011 05:13PM


The Clarendon skanks were wearing short skirts any time it went above 25 degrees. So any temperature, I guess.

________________________________________
I'm climbing up the walls 'cause I want you, but when I reach ya, you disappear.

rules schmules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Crow had rules. So did the Nazis, Aparthied,
> and pretty much anyone else that is trying to
> impose their will on someone else. Doesn't make
> them right.

So you're comparing forced racial segregation and the systematic murder of millions of Jews to a public school suspending a student for failing to follow a simple "don't bring drugs to school" policy?

Classy.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

why we ignore you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is why we don't take Mr. McIdiot
> seriously......
>
> He is such a hater.

That's totally relevant to this conversation! Great job!

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

When the girl said she only took one once I think she meant in school, she probably took the other ten at home.

Also everyone is assuming that when the mother told her to "just take it" that she meant take it to school. I think she meant just take the pills since I recall reading that the medication had expired.

As for speculating on the context of the boyfriend comment, I could see the girl not wanting to change schools because she would be away from her boyfriend, and saying so in this meeting. But we don't even know if she has a boyfriend so there could be endless possibilities on why this came up. What I don't understand is why a school board member felt it necessary to put her on the spot about it. They could have just as easily said "We understand your point of view and will take everything we have learned in this meeting into consideration when making our decision." There was no need to act like a teenager when dealing with one.

Note that this story follows the same FCPS playbook - by the time a parent is called, a written confession has been extracted from the student.

Who are these hearing office people? Is this some sort of semi-judicial procedure? Are they lawyers? Seems to me if you are finding facts and meeting out punishment, there'd be some sort of professional background related to that.

Another idiotic comment from Mr. McMoron:

******************************************************************************


It's the same problem the modern medical system is facing; everyone is yelling at them, "Do it right or we'll sue you." Of course, what's "right" is highly subjective.

*******************************************************************************

Doctor Who Cut Off Wrong Leg Is Defended by Colleagues
Published: September 17, 1995

TAMPA, Fla., Sept. 16 — A Tampa surgeon who has been widely vilified and ridiculed for mistakenly amputating the wrong leg of a patient on Feb. 20 sought this week to regain both his license to practice medicine and a measure of his once-solid reputation



So I guess if Mr. McDumbbell had his leg amputated due to medical malpractice, he would be ok with that???

Oh, hey, isn't this interesting...

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/ips/ssaw/SRNR/2010-11-SRR.pdf

"The Code of Virginia, §22.1-279.3, requires that school divisions provide parents with a copy of the standards of conduct and obtain a signed acknowledgment of receipt. The Code of Virginia, §22.1-179.3 can be found inside the front cover of the SR&R booklet."

And... GOOD LORD! Look at this thing! There's a section on the rights of students, a section on search and seizure policies... and holy shit, there's a section on the use or posession of controlled substances which includes prescription medication. It's Chapter II, Section A, Part 3-d.

So, it appears there's no excuse for thinking it's OK to have this shit in her locker. Knowing that these rules exist, is it really so difficult to follow them?

If she absolutely had to take a pill on that particular day at lunch, why risk bringing the whole bottle when you could just bring the one pill you needed to take?

My limited sympathy has turned to no sympathy. This is not rocket science.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

stupid example Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blah blah blah

You're right, that is a stupid example.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, hey, isn't this interesting...
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/dss/ips/ssaw/SRNR/2010-11-SRR.
> pdf
>
> "The Code of Virginia, §22.1-279.3, requires that
> school divisions provide parents with a copy of
> the standards of conduct and obtain a signed
> acknowledgment of receipt. The Code of Virginia,
> §22.1-179.3 can be found inside the front cover
> of the SR&R booklet."
>
> And... GOOD LORD! Look at this thing! There's a
> section on the rights of students, a section on
> search and seizure policies... and holy shit,
> there's a section on the use or posession of
> controlled substances which includes prescription
> medication. It's Chapter II, Section A, Part 3-d.
>
> So, it appears there's no excuse for thinking it's
> OK to have this shit in her locker. Knowing that
> these rules exist, is it really so difficult to
> follow them?
>
> If she absolutely had to take a pill on that
> particular day at lunch, why risk bringing the
> whole bottle when you could just bring the one
> pill you needed to take?
>
> My limited sympathy has turned to no sympathy.
> This is not rocket science.

c'mon you know nobody ever reads those things.
still doesn't address the question of why the adjudication process is so cumbersome and unqualified people are conducting the hearings. That part of the process needs to get fixed pronto, cuz the Post is on their case now and this is just more bad press.

"The school has to protect itself at some point, or they'll be sued into oblivion. Then there won't BE a school for parents to bitch about. "

Try suing the school system. They have highly paid lawyers who write their rules and they exercise sovereign immunity. No one is going to get a lawsuit through the courts because Little Johnny took Little Mary's Antibiotic or BC pill against the school. I know of students injured at school who have been told by shyster lawyers to forget their personal injury case against the school system.

yes, its all the parents fault. They should have checked the prescription into the school office. So, why should their minor child be paying for their error?

And I would draw the line this way
Misdeameanor offenses = suspension
Felony Offenses = expulsion
SR &R made up FCPS rule offenses = detention/counseling

Not hard to draw the line if you use your brain. Something FCPS trains their robot Nazi administrators not to do.

And the Hearing Office is well known to conduct Inquisition style hearings, asking the kids all kinds of inappropriate questions not germaine to the case.

And for this, FCPS gets 53% of the County Budget? Your tax dollars at work.

dissent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mon you know nobody ever reads those things.

Seriously?!

That doesn't fly in the real world. The entire legal system, from the cops to the judge, will be happy to tell you that ignorance of the law doesn't excuse you from it.

> still doesn't address the question of why the
> adjudication process is so cumbersome and
> unqualified people are conducting the hearings.
> That part of the process needs to get fixed
> pronto, cuz the Post is on their case now and this
> is just more bad press.

It's cumbersome because it has to follow procedure to make sure parents don't cry that they're being treated unfairly, and "unqualified" is really a matter of opinion.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dissent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > c'mon you know nobody ever reads those things.
>
> Seriously?!
>
> That doesn't fly in the real world. The entire
> legal system, from the cops to the judge, will be
> happy to tell you that ignorance of the law
> doesn't excuse you from it.
>
> > still doesn't address the question of why the
> > adjudication process is so cumbersome and
> > unqualified people are conducting the hearings.
> > That part of the process needs to get fixed
> > pronto, cuz the Post is on their case now and
> this
> > is just more bad press.
>
> It's cumbersome because it has to follow procedure
> to make sure parents don't cry that they're being
> treated unfairly, and "unqualified" is really a
> matter of opinion.


the way I read it, it was cumbersome because it happened toward the end of the yer and the district was understaffed in this particular function so she was left to twist in the wind for awhile.

dissent2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the way I read it, it was cumbersome because it
> happened toward the end of the yer and the
> district was understaffed in this particular
> function so she was left to twist in the wind for
> awhile.

The timing was poor, and while I totally agree that these processes should be faster and more efficient... it still doesn't change the fact that it all could have been avoided by a little common sense from the student and the parents.

You have to realize that these people have probably heard it all before, from parents who want to appeal their precious snowflakes suspension for bringing a gun to school, to parents who appeal their child's suspension for having drugs in their locker. Also, the vast majority of students have no problem following these rules and graduating.

Personally, I wouldn't be in a particular hurry to process the appeals of parents of kids who fucked up, especially if there weren't enough people to do the work, and double especially if I had more things to do than process appeals.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

dissent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> c'mon you know nobody ever reads those things.

Her parents did not (or ignored the rules). You can bet when the kid gets older, she will. See, a generational improvement.

It is also an important lesson that sometimes when you take an action, others get hurt and you can't pay the price for it even if you want to. It sucks but it is reality. It's not like stuff like this isn't in the news every few months. Even if they didn't read the policy they heard about drawn-out, serious penalties for those who didn't either.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Her parents did not (or ignored the rules). You
> can bet when the kid gets older, she will. See, a
> generational improvement.
>
> It is also an important lesson that sometimes when
> you take an action, others get hurt and you can't
> pay the price for it even if you want to. It
> sucks but it is reality. It's not like stuff like
> this isn't in the news every few months. Even if
> they didn't read the policy they heard about
> drawn-out, serious penalties for those who didn't
> either.

What kills me is that she had the pills in her locker for 8 months. That's approximately 240 chances to avoid this entire situation.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Yeah, what's up with that?!?!

Listen to Mr. McKnucklehed, he knows what he is talking about. ALL VA laws must be followed or punishment will be swift and harsh.

18.2-344. Fornication.

Any person, not being married, who voluntarily shall have
sexual intercourse with any other person, shall be guilty
of fornication, punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, ?? 18.1-188, 18.1-190; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc.
14, 15.)

18.2-341. Working or transacting business on Sunday.

A. On the first day of the week, commonly known and designated as Sunday, no person shall engage in work, labor or business or employ others to engage in work, labor or business except in the following industries and businesses:

1. Transportation by whatever means and supporting facilities;

2. Public services and utilities, manufacturing, processing and plant operation of all types;

3. Publishing, including the distribution and sale of the products thereof;

4. Servicing, fueling and repair of motor vehicles, boats and aircraft, and the selling of parts and supplies therefor;

5. Operation of motion picture theatres and the production of radio and television programs;

6. Medical services; and other services on an emergency basis;

7. Sports, athletic events and the operation of historic, entertainment and recreational facilities, and the sale or rental of boats, and swimming, fishing and boating equipment;

8. Agriculture, including the operation of nurseries and florist establishments;

9. Preparation and sale of prescription and nonprescription drugs and the sale of medical and hygienic supplies and baby supplies;

10. Wholesale food warehouses and ship chandleries;

11. Restaurants and delicatessens;

12. Janitorial, custodial and like services;

13. Operation of hotels and motels and funeral homes and cemeteries;

14. Mining and supporting facilities;

15. Sale of food, ice and beverages;

16. Sale of tobacco and related products;

17. A drugstore, a majority of the sales receipts of which consist of prescription and nonprescription drugs, health and beauty aids;

18. Sale of novelties, cameras, photographic supplies (including film and flash bulbs), antiques, pictures, paintings, art supplies, souvenirs, animals as pets, including tropical fish, and pet supplies;

19. Sale or leasing of noncommercial real property, mobile homes, and the sale of residential modular, panelized or other prefabricated houses, notwithstanding that such houses are not then erected or constructed on a site;

20. Providing of any service, product or other thing by means of a mechanical device not requiring the labor of any person;

21. Sale of any item, provided such sale takes place on publicly owned property or property designated by the governing body of any county, city or town, on a case-by-case basis, as the site of a festival, trade show, convention, festival market place or other type of public celebration or gathering. The governing body of a county, city or town may extend such a designation to nonpublicly owned property only when more than fifty percent of the area in which sales are made is used for otherwise exempt activities; and

22. Providing of any service or product by means of a mechanical device requiring only a telephone operator or answerer who may accept, but not process, orders.

This section shall not be applicable to works of charity conducted solely for charitable purposes by any person or organization not organized or engaged in business for a profit.

B. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

C. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to permit any fine or penalty against any employee or agent who has been caused, directed or authorized by his employer to violate any provision of this section, in which case the employer shall be subject to the sanctions prescribed by this section.

(Code 1950, ? 18.1-363.1; 1974, c. 330; 1975, cc. 14, 15, 498; 1976, c. 569; 1978, c. 639; 1979, c. 400; 1982, c. 286; 1984, c. 369; 1988, c. 666.)

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kills me is that she had the pills in her
> locker for 8 months. That's approximately 240
> chances to avoid this entire situation.

They are probably complaining about the county spending too much on school "administration" positions, like nurses who are paid to take care of just this situation.

I wonder if these people would argue that jail time for going 120mph on the beltway at 3am is "too harsh" a penalty because no one else happened to be on the road, no harm, no foul.

I find the outrage over this jaw-droppingly absurd. The #1 fear or concern a parent has about high schools is drug and alcohol use. Any parent of a six-year-old, when asked if they think schools should get tougher on drugs, would say "of course... the question itself is dumb but I'll grace it with an answer." Then simple rules are broken, penalties (documented ones) are given, and there is outrage. Rules. Follow them. Makes life EASIER.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

Virginia

• An old Virginia law was titled, "An Act to Prevent Corrupt Practices or Bribery by Any Person Other Than a Candidate."

• As in many towns, you need a permit to run a barbershop in Christiansburg, Va. But the wording of the town's law indicates that the permit will be revoked if you're caught operating without a permit.

• A Virginia law requires all bathtubs to be kept out in the yards, not inside the houses.

• Children are not to go trick-or-treating on Halloween.

• Citizens must honk their horn while passing other cars.

• Culpeper: No one may wash a mule on the sidewalk.

• Dayton: A person of color may not be outside or within the city limits after 7 pm.

• Driving while not wearing shoes is prohibited.


• In Christiansburg, Va., it's illegal to imitate a police whistle.

• In Christiansburg, Va., it's illegal to "spit, expectorate or deposit any sputum, saliva or any form of saliva or sputum."

• In Newport it's against the law to tickle a girl under her chin with a feather duster in order to get her attention.

• In Norfolk a woman can't go out without wearing a corset.

• In Richmond, Virginia it is illegal to flip a coin in any eating establishment to determine who buys a cup of coffee.

• It is illegal to sell peanut brittle on Sundays.

• Not only is it illegal to have sex with the lights on, one may not have sex in any position other than missionary.

• Stafford County: It is legal for a man to beat his wife on the courthouse steps so long as it is before 8:00 pm.

• Swearing at someone over the phone in virginia is punishable by a $100 fine.

All relevant to another kid finding prescription medication and popping them, possibly dying! Good job bringing those up!!

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

VA laws must be followed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to Mr. McKnucklehed, he knows what he is
> talking about. ALL VA laws must be followed or
> punishment will be swift and harsh.
>
> 18.2-344. Fornication.
>
> Any person, not being married, who voluntarily
> shall have
> sexual intercourse with any other person, shall be
> guilty
> of fornication, punishable as a Class 4
> misdemeanor.
>
> (Code 1950, ?? 18.1-188, 18.1-190; 1960, c. 358;
> 1975, cc.
> 14, 15.)

It's such a shame that you spent time looking that up when it has nothing to do with the current discussion.

Here are the facts of the matter:

1. The school sent a document to the parents outlining the policy on using or possessing prescription drugs in the school, and the consequences thereof.

2. The parents signed a document acknowledging that they had received the document which states the policy on using or possessing prescription drugs in the school, and the consequences thereof.

3. Their precious snowflake takes prescription drugs to school and possesses them there for eight freaking months.

4. Parents are shocked, SHOCKED, that their child is punished for breaking the rules that they agreed to.

5. People bitch about it on the internet.

What am I missing here?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Another brilliant suggestion from Mr. McKnownothing:


Personally, I wouldn't be in a particular hurry to process the appeals of parents of kids who fucked up, especially if there weren't enough people to do the work, and double especially if I had more things to do than process appeals.

******************************************************************************


HEARINGS OFFICE

635000 HEARINGS OFFICE

1062 HEARING OFFICER/ASST

$774,201 7.0

1090 TECHNICIAN

$106,375 2.0

1204 PROGRAM/ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT

$287,801 6.0

2002 HRLY OFFICE ASSIST

$3,500 0.0

******************************************************************************

Great idea McRocks for brains....let's thro more money at this department so we can beat up on 13 year olds who take their prescribed meds at school.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VA laws must be followed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Listen to Mr. McKnucklehed, he knows what he is
> > talking about. ALL VA laws must be followed or
> > punishment will be swift and harsh.
> >
> > 18.2-344. Fornication.
> >
> > Any person, not being married, who voluntarily
> > shall have
> > sexual intercourse with any other person, shall
> be
> > guilty
> > of fornication, punishable as a Class 4
> > misdemeanor.
> >
> > (Code 1950, ?? 18.1-188, 18.1-190; 1960, c.
> 358;
> > 1975, cc.
> > 14, 15.)
>
> It's such a shame that you spent time looking that
> up when it has nothing to do with the current
> discussion.
>
> Here are the facts of the matter:
>
> 1. The school sent a document to the parents
> outlining the policy on using or possessing
> prescription drugs in the school, and the
> consequences thereof.
>
> 2. The parents signed a document acknowledging
> that they had received the document which states
> the policy on using or possessing prescription
> drugs in the school, and the consequences
> thereof.
>
> 3. Their precious snowflake takes prescription
> drugs to school and possesses them there for eight
> freaking months.
>
> 4. Parents are shocked, SHOCKED, that their child
> is punished for breaking the rules that they
> agreed to.
>
> 5. People bitch about it on the internet.
>
> What am I missing here?

you are missing the aftermath .., how she was treated. Shabbily. Like shit. What ridiculous bogus questions were asked of her at the hearing. frikin' kangaroo court you ask me. I think that is what has most people bothered. This didn't warrant a seven week suspension. In fact, the mom is the one who told her to take the pills ... the mom is the scofflaw. An innocent mistake, really. That should recieve some consideration at sentencing time. I hope Haley can recover from his shameless ordeal with some dignity and not be, well, scarred by it.

Is there a criminal in our presence?

build bigger jails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 18.2-341. Working or transacting business on
> Sunday.
>
> A. On the first day of the week, commonly known
> and designated as Sunday, no person shall engage
> in work, labor or business or employ others to
> engage in work, labor or business except in the
> following industries and businesses:
>

>
> 12. Janitorial, custodial and like services;
>

>

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> What am I missing here?

A kid.

We spend $1,171,877 for JUST salaries on these BOZOS!!!???!!!

Add in benes and the fat VRS pension and we're talking easily $1.5 million.

AND we pay $800,000 to transport "criminals" like Hayley to other schools.

$2.3 million bucks for this CRAP.

It's time for a revolution.

Ah, yes. Fighting the punishment is certainly easier than following the rules and avoiding the punishment altogether.

Great job, parents.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

may2010 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rules "R" rules
> Don't break them and you won't have it snapped off
> in your ass,,
>
> Just think,,,This would be a non-issue if the
> dummy would just follow the rules that are set in
> place to protect everyone


Kim Jong Il couldn't have said it any better.

Hearings Office
Who We Are
What We Do Who We Are
Office Staff:

Dana Scanlan, Hearing Officer
Anne Benedicto, Administrative Assistant
Brenda Adams, Assistant Hearing Officer
Lisa Felix, Assistant Hearing Officer
Mark Holbrook, Assistant Hearing Officer
Nancy Kreloff, Assistant Hearing Officer
Pam McMillie, Assistant Hearing Officer
Benita Toler, Assistant Hearing Officer


Kathy Bacon, Administrative Assistant
Sheena Cox, Administrative Assistant
Donna Dixon, Administrative Assistant
Jillian Richards, Hearing/Legal Tech
Elaine Scott, Administrative Assistant
Ella Stites, Hearing/Legal Tech

********************************************************************************


KRELOFF ","ARNOLD "," ","058"," 8307","BREWSTER ","DR","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","09/16/2004","SPEEDING AT SCHOOL CROSSINGS "
"KRELOFF ","NANCY ","K","047"," 8307","BREWSTER ","DR","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","09/05/2005","FAIL OBEY HWY SIGN "


******************************************************************************

Ok, I'll play the bullying hearing officer:


Mr. Kreloff, really, speeding at a school crossing?

Were there children present?

You could have KILLED or MIAMED one of them?

We could charge you with child endangerment?

You are suspended from work for 8 weeks-with NO PAY and do not step on the grounds of your office or have any contact with any of your friends for 10 years.

If you do, you will be charged with trespassing and arrested ON THE SPOT!

The punishment does not fit the crime.

FCPS is using a pavement crusher to squash a bug. And destroying more than the bug in the process.

Ummmm, duh, when I was in FCPS it was a very well known point that any and all medication had to be pre-registered with the nurses office.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Office of Student Activities and Athletics
571-423-1260

Student Activities and Athletics Director Bill Curran, William.Curran@fcps.edu

............................................................


CURRAN ","WILLIAM ," ","042"," 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON ","VA","02/08/2008","DWI-ALCOHOL

"
"CURRAN ","WILLIAM "," ","043"," 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON ","VA","01/22/2009","FAIL OBEY STOP/YLD-SGN

"CURRAN ","WILLIAM "," ","043"," 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON ","VA","01/22/2009","VIOLATE OL RESTRICTIONS



Time to call the ZT Police.

Transportation Services


Lorton Transportation Center
8101 Lorton Center
Lorton, VA 22079

Linda Farbry, Director
703-446-2000

..........................................................................

"FARBRY ","LINDA ","P","060"," 6809","BRIAN MICHAEL ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","09/05/2005","FAIL OBEY HWY
SIGN



Don't FCPS bus drivers get canned if they have any tickets????

No, Suzanne, adults are not subject to school rules. And if an adult breaks the law and gets punished, then they don't really get to kick their feet and cry about how unfair it is.

Nice strawman argument though! It was almost relevant!

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

same guy? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Office of Student Activities and Athletics
> 571-423-1260
>
> Student Activities and Athletics Director Bill
> Curran, William.Curran@fcps.edu
>
> ..................................................
> ..........
>
>
> CURRAN ","WILLIAM ," ","042","
> 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON
> ","VA","02/08/2008","DWI-ALCOHOL
>
> "
> "CURRAN ","WILLIAM "," ","043","
> 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON
> ","VA","01/22/2009","FAIL OBEY STOP/YLD-SGN
>
> "CURRAN ","WILLIAM "," ","043","
> 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON
> ","VA","01/22/2009","VIOLATE OL RESTRICTIONS
>
>
>
> Time to call the ZT Police.


So let me get this right? The FCPS AD gets a DWI, then cited for failing to follow the restriction on his license (probably to/from work, dr, etc). and keeps his job? WTF! And this is the guy the bounces kids of teams for facebook pictures with a beer?

"COX ","SHEENA ","S","029"," 1729","VONNIES VIEW ","CT","WOODBRIDGE ","VA","11/29/2002","EXPIRED STATE REGISTRATION "
"COX ","SHEENA ","S","029"," 1729","VONNIES VIEW ","CT","WOODBRIDGE ","VA","11/29/2002","NO DRIVERS LICENSE "
"COX ","SHEENA ","S","031"," 7419","LITTLE RIVER#T3 ","TP","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","02/20/2004","ALTERED/FORGED LIC PLATES/DECALS "
"COX ","SHEENA ","S","031"," 7419","LITTLE RIVER#T3 ","TP","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","02/20/2004","EXPIRED STATE LIC PLATE "



Wow - forged license plates/decals.

From the SR&R:

The following violations shall result in disciplinary action .... Forgery, cheating, plagiarism, or dishonesty.

So how does Hearing Office discipline its own?

He mad.

EDIT: Again, adults are not bound by the school handbook. If they committed a crime, they were punished and suffered the consequences. I also don't see them on here posting about how fair it is. I also don't see them talking about why they shouldn't be punished because such and such student broke a rule and... Got punished? I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.

This immaturity is why kids don't have the same rights as adults.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2011 07:10PM by MrMephisto.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> EDIT: Again, adults are not bound by the school
> handbook.

They're not? Despite the fact that the SR&R is a compilation of Virginia Statutory Law? So at 18, adults (including students) are free to bring guns and "imitation drugs" on campus? "Oh, what a tangled web we weave...".


>If they committed a crime, they were
> punished and suffered the consequences.

Assuming, of course, they were apprehended. Oh yes, and assuming, of course, that their lawyer wasn't up to the task of getting them off.

> I also
> don't see them on here posting about how fair it
> is. I also don't see them talking about why they
> shouldn't be punished because such and such
> student broke a rule and... Got punished?

Perhaps because they are not deprived of other venues to voice their concerns. Despite your rather obtuse approach to this issue, you are right to point out that fairness and law are two often diametrically opposed concepts. Students need to be disabused of their inherent notion of fairness as early as possible, because it leaves them unprepared for the juggernaut of law that is the SR&R.

But you are quite mistaken in your rhetorical juxtaposition of law and the FCPS disciplinary process. The law is fundamentally a string of precedence that informs the decisions of the Courts. What happens over there forms the basis on what is decided here. So using the experiences of another student as a point of appeal is quite in keeping with 2000 years of Western legal tradition -- which, I gather, you don't have much use for in your "might makes right" universe.

>I'm
> really not sure what point you're trying to make.
>

Or I you. You seem to want to treat kids under the age of majority as de facto adults, full cognizant of their actions and the consequences thereof. Okay, if we go with that, then can we have judges and lawyers adjudicate every infraction of the rules by third graders? As an adult, I have the right to legal counsel. If we treat 8 year olds in the same fashion, should they not expect the same protections of the law? That is the end of the slippery slope you would have us step on.



>
> This immaturity is why kids don't have the same
> rights as adults.

This is precisely the point that many have made on this board. Immaturity equates to insufficient development equates to un-adult-like cognitive processes. The "punishments" you so zealously want meted out will simply not be correctly understood by the 15 year old "perpetrator". You acknowledge as much in the above statement, yet persist in advocating for a "hang 'em high" disciplinary process. How is this reconciled in the FCPS employee handbook? Is cognitive dissonance painful?

TheProfessor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They're not? Despite the fact that the SR&R is a
> compilation of Virginia Statutory Law? So at 18,
> adults (including students) are free to bring guns
> and "imitation drugs" on campus? "Oh, what a
> tangled web we weave...".

Now you're just being silly. You were posting the arrest/ticket info of various administration/staff members to show that adults also break the rules, and your point was that it's hypocritical to punish students for doing the same thing school officials were arrested/ticketed for doing.

You seem to be under the impression that students are somehow equal to the administration, and are subject to the same laws, policies, and punishments. You are wrong. Obviously, if a teacher was caught bringing drugs or weapons to school, they would face consequences; however, they'd be subject to Big Boy laws, not your sad little School Boy laws.

If arrested with intent to distribute drugs on school property, a teacher could be looking at a potential felony, a minimum of one year in jail, and fines somewhere around $100,000. Having a gun on school property is also a felony. They probably wouldn't be able to teach anywhere every again.

So, the kids should be thanking the gods that they're NOT equal to the administration. Instead of this poor little girl with her almost full bottle of prescription medication getting transferred to another school and having to (boo hoo) make new friends, she could be looking at a life-ending felony.

> Assuming, of course, they were apprehended. Oh
> yes, and assuming, of course, that their lawyer
> wasn't up to the task of getting them off.

The arrest/ticket search only shows that they were arrested/ticketed. Feel free to do the research to find out which laws they were found guilty of, and what the penalties were. It has no bearing on this discussion, so I'm not bothering.

> Perhaps because they are not deprived of other
> venues to voice their concerns. Despite your
> rather obtuse approach to this issue, you are
> right to point out that fairness and law are two
> often diametrically opposed concepts. Students
> need to be disabused of their inherent notion of
> fairness as early as possible, because it leaves
> them unprepared for the juggernaut of law that is
> the SR&R.

This is borderline gibberish. "The juggernaut of law that is the SR&R?" Please. Big Boy laws are much, much worse than the supposedly draconian policies of "don't bring drugs or weapons to school."

Here's an example: I have a concealed carry permit, and I have my handgun in my car. Totally legal in Virginia. Let's say I forgot it was there and went to DC or Maryland one day. If I'd been caught with it, "I forgot it was there and it was just a mistake" would not have been a sufficient enough excuse to get me out of the trouble I would have been in. In Maryland, that simple oversight could mean a fine up to $1,000 and/or jail time up to three years. "Transfer to another state" is not an option.

> But you are quite mistaken in your rhetorical
> juxtaposition of law and the FCPS disciplinary
> process. The law is fundamentally a string of
> precedence that informs the decisions of the
> Courts. What happens over there forms the basis
> on what is decided here. So using the experiences
> of another student as a point of appeal is quite
> in keeping with 2000 years of Western legal
> tradition -- which, I gather, you don't have much
> use for in your "might makes right" universe.

Except students and juveniles are not equal to the school administration and adults. I don't see how you're not getting this.

> Or I you. You seem to want to treat kids under
> the age of majority as de facto adults, full
> cognizant of their actions and the consequences
> thereof. Okay, if we go with that, then can we
> have judges and lawyers adjudicate every
> infraction of the rules by third graders? As an
> adult, I have the right to legal counsel. If we
> treat 8 year olds in the same fashion, should they
> not expect the same protections of the law? That
> is the end of the slippery slope you would have us
> step on.

I highly doubt you're an adult; I'm hoping that only a kid would be naive enough to expect equal treatment under the law for school children and adults. As I just pointed out numerous times, it would be infinitely worse for kids if we did away with the "brownshirt Nazi draconian juggernaut that is the SR&R" and held everyone to the same rule of law, regardless of age.

> This is precisely the point that many have made on
> this board. Immaturity equates to insufficient
> development equates to un-adult-like cognitive
> processes. The "punishments" you so zealously
> want meted out will simply not be correctly
> understood by the 15 year old "perpetrator". You
> acknowledge as much in the above statement, yet
> persist in advocating for a "hang 'em high"
> disciplinary process. How is this reconciled in
> the FCPS employee handbook? Is cognitive
> dissonance painful?

So you're telling me that kids are able to grasp algebra, English literature, social studies, and science, but are still too stupid to follow simple rules like "don't bring drugs or weapons to school" or "register your prescription with the nurse?" My gods, there are more rules in football than there are in the SR&R handbook.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Your premise that having ones own prescription medicine is illegal is false. Your position is an Epic Fail.

But, that's status quo for you here.

Not mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your premise that having ones own prescription
> medicine is illegal is false. Your position is an
> Epic Fail.
>
> But, that's status quo for you here.

I'm impressed. I thought it was physically impossible to miss the point that hard.

I never said having your own prescription medication is illegal. Failing to register it with the nurse violates the very, very simple rule to register prescription medication with the school nurse.

Are you saying that this policy is so difficult for kids to follow that it needs to be eliminated?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not mephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your premise that having ones own prescription
> > medicine is illegal is false. Your position is
> an
> > Epic Fail.
> >
> > But, that's status quo for you here.
>
> I'm impressed. I thought it was physically
> impossible to miss the point that hard.
>
> I never said having your own prescription
> medication is illegal. Failing to register it with
> the nurse violates the very, very simple rule to
> register prescription medication with the school
> nurse.
>
> Are you saying that this policy is so difficult
> for kids to follow that it needs to be eliminated?


It's a very simple, easily followed policy. I used to be required to go through the process at the beginning of each new school year, and I never had any problems with it whatsoever, even as an elementary school kid.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

I get that the main gripe here is the punishment, not the policy. But it doesn't change the fact that the consequences are clearly defined, and they need to apply to everyone equally. Schools have to have a drug policy, and the second it's applied unequally, whiny parents will be bitching and suing like there's no tomorrow.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

actually I think you just like to argue.

Punishment needs to take into account intent. From the accounts I have read, there was no intent on her part to violate District's policies. It was an honest mistake, which didn't warrant a 7 week suspension and being treated like a criminal. She probably has less respect now for the adults running the disciplinary process and so do I.
It's over, done with now. I think you'll see some changes in the way these things are handled in the future.

dubslawg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> actually I think you just like to argue.
>
> Punishment needs to take into account intent. From
> the accounts I have read, there was no intent on
> her part to violate District's policies. It was an
> honest mistake, which didn't warrant a 7 week
> suspension and being treated like a criminal. She
> probably has less respect now for the adults
> running the disciplinary process and so do I.
> It's over, done with now. I think you'll see some
> changes in the way these things are handled in the
> future.

I hope not.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Are you sure this is the same guy? Was he convicted?


same guy? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Office of Student Activities and Athletics
> 571-423-1260
>
> Student Activities and Athletics Director Bill
> Curran, William.Curran@fcps.edu
>
> ..................................................
> ..........
>
>
> CURRAN ","WILLIAM ," ","042","
> 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON
> ","VA","02/08/2008","DWI-ALCOHOL
>
> "
> "CURRAN ","WILLIAM "," ","043","
> 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON
> ","VA","01/22/2009","FAIL OBEY STOP/YLD-SGN
>
> "CURRAN ","WILLIAM "," ","043","
> 10874","HUNTER GATE ","WY","RESTON
> ","VA","01/22/2009","VIOLATE OL RESTRICTIONS
>
>
>
> Time to call the ZT Police.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm impressed. I thought it was physically
> impossible to miss the point that hard.
>
> I never said having your own prescription
> medication is illegal. Failing to register it with
> the nurse violates the very, very simple rule to
> register prescription medication with the school
> nurse.
>
> Are you saying that this policy is so difficult
> for kids to follow that it needs to be eliminated?

It seems that the majority here, over and over said it's not the rules everyone is bitching about; it's about the punishment that does not fit.

I am really surprised how the staff at FCPS can interrogate and force a confession from students and it being admissible at the hearings. But then again, this does not have anything to do with the thread..

Its going to get to a point where the school will have to employ lawyers for the students sake (due to the improper staff). It will be like a "public defender" type program, where as, before the school can even question the student, or call parents, the lawyer will have to be present.. Like it or not, if something does not change, someone will be "offended" here (to be more politically correct) and
will find a way to sue about policies and procedures dealing with these hearings.

I bet most staff gets off on punishing kids.

Hopefully they will start recording these hearings / inquisitions
I would like to see the staff try this shit at a inner DC school or a poor inner-city school..