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Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Undecided One ()
Date: February 27, 2011 11:38AM

Appears Louise Epstein will run against Jane Strauss for School Board this November.

Not sure I'm thrilled with either choice.

Strauss has generally done a good job of protecting Dranesville schools, though she does more for Langley than McLean. On the other hand, she went along with Gibson's and Bradsher's shenanigans, and she was insulting to many local residents when Colvin Run ES was built.

Epstein seems thoughtful, but for the most part all she seems to care about is FAIRgrade (which achieved what it wanted) and protecting TJ. Will she be independent like Reed, Evans or Hone, or just go along with others so long as her precious AAP/GT programs and TJ get all they want?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 27, 2011 11:47AM

Undecided One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Appears Louise Epstein will run against Jane Strauss for School Board this November.
>
> Not sure I'm thrilled with either choice.
>
> Strauss has generally done a good job of protecting Dranesville schools, though she does more for Langley than McLean. On the other hand, she went along with Gibson's and Bradsher's shenanigans, and she was insulting to many local residents when Colvin Run ES was built.<

Herndon High is in her district also and Strauss totally abandoned it. It should have been renovated already but she let Bradsher jump the queue for South County
High School and Middle School.

She only cares about Langley to the detriment of the rest of FCPS.

> Epstein seems thoughtful, but for the most part all she seems to care about is FAIRgrade (which achieved what it wanted) and protecting TJ. Will she be independent like Reed, Evans or Hone, or just go along with others so long as her precious AAP/GT programs and TJ get all they want?<

Talking to people who've talk to her, my impression is that this evaluation is unfair.

Louise's interests are much broader. She would be an active ally of Reed and Evans.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Undecided One ()
Date: February 27, 2011 01:36PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Herndon High is in her district also and Strauss
> totally abandoned it. It should have been
> renovated already but she let Bradsher jump the
> queue for South County
> High School and Middle School.
>
> She only cares about Langley to the detriment of
> the rest of FCPS.
>
> > Epstein seems thoughtful, but for the most part
> all she seems to care about is FAIRgrade (which
> achieved what it wanted) and protecting TJ. Will
> she be independent like Reed, Evans or Hone, or
> just go along with others so long as her precious
> AAP/GT programs and TJ get all they want?<
>
> Talking to people who've talk to her, my
> impression is that this evaluation is unfair.
>
> Louise's interests are much broader. She would be
> an active ally of Reed and Evans.

I had forgotten Herndon HS was in Dranesville. Apparently, Strauss did, too.

We need more members like Evans and Reed and the sooner the better, before the reformers get brow-beaten into playing politics as usual.

I do think Jane is much smarter than the likes of Smith, Gibson, Wilson, Center and Bradsher, although that's probably not saying much. At this point, however, I'm inclined to give Epstein a shot.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 27, 2011 01:42PM

Epstein cares about academics. I do think she would question program efficacy. Now Thomas More, how can you write that Gibson hasn't procured excessive funding for Reston schools compared to other areas? Didn't Westbriar get full day kindergarten before poor schools?

Immersion, Magnet [scrap it and do a boundary change]....years of buses running to please specific neighborhood constituents. He did break the trust of his Vienna constituents when the unwritten deal to bus past the turn off to SL's was broken while still running his Langley operation.

IMHO the South County NO vote was Gibson's shining moment. I guess those 2 have sold so much credit with other board members on the Langley boundaries that taxpayers are faced with penny wise and pound foolish.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: a school board observer ()
Date: February 27, 2011 01:50PM

Do you really think Stu would have voted "no" on South County Middle if he had not known it would pass anyway without his vote? Believe me, if Liz had needed it, he would have given her the vote. It was the right thing to do--but it cost him nothing. I'm sure Liz gave him a bye. He certainly supported her on this last fiasco.

Board members do this all the time. Except for Tina Hone and Patty Reed, I don't believe they ever vote against each other.

p.s. why did Evans support the boundary switch. Is she with them now? Or is she trying to garner votes for SLEEP?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Undecided One ()
Date: February 27, 2011 02:40PM

a school board observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you really think Stu would have voted "no" on
> South County Middle if he had not known it would
> pass anyway without his vote? Believe me, if Liz
> had needed it, he would have given her the vote.
> It was the right thing to do--but it cost him
> nothing. I'm sure Liz gave him a bye. He
> certainly supported her on this last fiasco.
>
> Board members do this all the time. Except for
> Tina Hone and Patty Reed, I don't believe they
> ever vote against each other.
>
> p.s. why did Evans support the boundary switch.
> Is she with them now? Or is she trying to garner
> votes for SLEEP?

Evans, Moon and occasionally Raney will support Hone or Reed in the first instance (for example, on an amendment to postpone a redistricting or school closing), and then go along with the majority when it's clear that they have the votes. At that point, they are probably trying to preserve political capital.

Westbriar ES isn't one of Strauss's schools. It's in Hunter Mill, Gibson's district. In any event, Strauss has few fans at Westbriar. Many Westbriar parents drive right by Colvin Run on the way to taking their kids to Westbriar. During the same period that Strauss supported Gibson's, Smith's and Bradsher's various redistricting schemes, she opposed cleaning up the absurd Langley/McLean/Marshall boundaries around Route 7, including the McLean HS and Westbriar ES "islands," when Colvin Run ES was built. When Stu wanted to change the South Lakes boundaries a few years later, however, she was all for eliminating the "Madison Island" attendance area. Go figure.

The more I think about it, the more vulnerable Strauss seems to a reasonable challenger.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: MakeJackGo ()
Date: February 27, 2011 03:33PM

Undecided One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Epstein seems thoughtful, but for the most part
> all she seems to care about is FAIRgrade (which
> achieved what it wanted) and protecting TJ. Will
> she be independent like Reed, Evans or Hone, or
> just go along with others so long as her precious
> AAP/GT programs and TJ get all they want?

Epstein would go after all the "specialists" at Gatehouse. She would also go after Jack Dale.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Liz is done ()
Date: February 27, 2011 03:46PM

MakeJackGo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> Epstein would go after all the "specialists" at
> Gatehouse. She would also go after Jack Dale.


That would be good enough for me. Fortunately, I get to vote against K. Smith if she's egotistical enough to run again. But anyone who'll go after Dale and run his sorry rump out of town gets my vote. He's become poison.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: MakeJackGo ()
Date: February 27, 2011 03:52PM

Liz is done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MakeJackGo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> >
> > Epstein would go after all the "specialists" at
> > Gatehouse. She would also go after Jack Dale.
>
>
> That would be good enough for me. Fortunately, I
> get to vote against K. Smith if she's egotistical
> enough to run again. But anyone who'll go after
> Dale and run his sorry rump out of town gets my
> vote. He's become poison.


+1

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: school board observer ()
Date: February 27, 2011 04:14PM

Please tell me someone will run against Kathy. I keep hoping that they will redo the districts and that Liz and Kathy will both end up in Springfield! They could run against each other--wouldn't that be funny?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Gerry Mandering ()
Date: February 27, 2011 04:26PM

"she opposed cleaning up the absurd Langley/McLean/Marshall boundaries around Route 7,including the McLean HS and Westbriar ES islands," when Colvin Run ES was built."


I'm still trying to figure out who took the bribe for those school boundaries?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: BreathofFreshAir ()
Date: February 27, 2011 08:00PM

We DESPERATELY NEED school board members like Louise Epstein. No one , and I mean NO ONE is as well steeped as she is on school issues - I watched her speak a few years ago at TJ - she is AMAZING at how much she knows about curriculum, facilities and the budget. She will knock your socks off. If Jane Strauss is reelected, we might as well pack up and move - I have watched her screw taxpayers on Gatehouse II, I've watched her screw the parents in the Madison Island. And what has she done for Langley? Langley PTA had to buy toilet seat covers for their school. Springhill Elem has 36 kids in one of their GT classes. She told a group of parents if they don't like the overcrowded conditions at Springhill to teach her kids Spanish and move to Bailey's Crossroads. Had enough?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: dumping $$$ ()
Date: February 27, 2011 09:26PM

BreathofFreshAir Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We DESPERATELY NEED school board members like
> Louise Epstein. No one , and I mean NO ONE is as
> well steeped as she is on school issues - I
> watched her speak a few years ago at TJ - she is
> AMAZING at how much she knows about curriculum,
> facilities and the budget. She will knock your
> socks off. If Jane Strauss is reelected, we might
> as well pack up and move - I have watched her
> screw taxpayers on Gatehouse II, I've watched her
> screw the parents in the Madison Island. And what
> has she done for Langley? Langley PTA had to buy
> toilet seat covers for their school. Springhill
> Elem has 36 kids in one of their GT classes. She
> told a group of parents if they don't like the
> overcrowded conditions at Springhill to teach her
> kids Spanish and move to Bailey's Crossroads. Had
> enough?


Didn't Langley have to use some of it's $$$ for the addition to remove the fill from the illegal dumping? Who paid for that? No sympathy here. How many schools have her immersion program? Is Springhill called a GT center or local level 4?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Janie Fan ()
Date: February 27, 2011 09:49PM

BreathofFreshAir Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We DESPERATELY NEED school board members like
> Louise Epstein. No one , and I mean NO ONE is as
> well steeped as she is on school issues - I
> watched her speak a few years ago at TJ - she is
> AMAZING at how much she knows about curriculum,
> facilities and the budget. She will knock your
> socks off. If Jane Strauss is reelected, we might
> as well pack up and move - I have watched her
> screw taxpayers on Gatehouse II, I've watched her
> screw the parents in the Madison Island. And what
> has she done for Langley? Langley PTA had to buy
> toilet seat covers for their school. Springhill
> Elem has 36 kids in one of their GT classes. She
> told a group of parents if they don't like the
> overcrowded conditions at Springhill to teach her
> kids Spanish and move to Bailey's Crossroads. Had
> enough?

It sounds like Janie was pointing out that Title I schools get extra resources and smaller class sizes, and non-Title I schools like Spring Hill where rich folks send their kids don't. I don't think you can hold her personally responsible if you don't like the NCLB Act.

And I agree with the other poster who said Louise Epstein is all about protecting programs for gifted students and nothing else.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: New Generation ()
Date: February 27, 2011 10:09PM

It's time for Granny Strauss to go!!!!!! She's old. She's out of touch. She just doesn't get it. Today's parents in the Dranesville district need a new generation of leadership who will focus on THEIR kids. Granny Strauss ain't it. Her ideas are stale and so is her leadership. I can't wait to hear more about Epstein. If she ran FAIRGRADE, she clearly knows how to get things done. Imagine what she'll do for FDK and class size. If we leave it up to Granny Strauss, another generation of kids will be SCREWED in Dranesville. Don't let it happen. Send Granny Strauss to the old folks home - let her do some damage there.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: question????? ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:33AM

New Generation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's time for Granny Strauss to go!!!!!! She's
> old. She's out of touch. She just doesn't get
> it. Today's parents in the Dranesville district
> need a new generation of leadership who will focus
> on THEIR kids. Granny Strauss ain't it. Her
> ideas are stale and so is her leadership. I can't
> wait to hear more about Epstein. If she ran
> FAIRGRADE, she clearly knows how to get things
> done. Imagine what she'll do for FDK and class
> size. If we leave it up to Granny Strauss,
> another generation of kids will be SCREWED in
> Dranesville. Don't let it happen. Send Granny
> Strauss to the old folks home - let her do some
> damage there.


How long has it been since she's had kids in FCPS?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: New Generation ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:24AM

It's been YEARS! Now she's out there trying to show she's close to the schools because she has young grandchildren. WHATEVER! She first took office in 1995. TOOOOOO long. All great organizations need change. She needs to go. The children in McLean, Great Falls and Herndon CANNOT afford another 20 years of old Granny Strauss.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: tartre ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:33AM

Louise Epstein is not a one issue candidate. She has a depth and breadth of knowledge that covers lots of issues. Just ask her about the byzantine FCPS budget or about just one huge wasteful chunk of the budget: instructional specialists and other central admin employees. She can quote chapter and verse on how wasteful central admin alone is. She has solutions. She will not toe the company line. Wish I could vote for her!

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: maryland plates? ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:50AM

Janie Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BreathofFreshAir Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We DESPERATELY NEED school board members like
> > Louise Epstein. No one , and I mean NO ONE is
> as
> > well steeped as she is on school issues - I
> > watched her speak a few years ago at TJ - she
> is
> > AMAZING at how much she knows about curriculum,
> > facilities and the budget. She will knock your
> > socks off. If Jane Strauss is reelected, we
> might
> > as well pack up and move - I have watched her
> > screw taxpayers on Gatehouse II, I've watched
> her
> > screw the parents in the Madison Island. And
> what
> > has she done for Langley? Langley PTA had to
> buy
> > toilet seat covers for their school. Springhill
> > Elem has 36 kids in one of their GT classes.
> She
> > told a group of parents if they don't like the
> > overcrowded conditions at Springhill to teach
> her
> > kids Spanish and move to Bailey's Crossroads.
> Had
> > enough?
>
> It sounds like Janie was pointing out that Title I
> schools get extra resources and smaller class
> sizes, and non-Title I schools like Spring Hill
> where rich folks send their kids don't. I don't
> think you can hold her personally responsible if
> you don't like the NCLB Act.
>
> And I agree with the other poster who said Louise
> Epstein is all about protecting programs for
> gifted students and nothing else.


I disagree with this slam on Louise Epstein. She is about directing resources to direct instruction. Teachers that are actually in assigned classrooms daily. ALL levels of classes. Maybe Strauss could have moved some extra funding from Kent Gardens over to Springhill to reduce the class size.

Springhill? Want a story? Years ago it had a clean-out. FCPS removed about 60 plus students based on addresses. How long were they sitting in an overcrowded school? What took so long to notice Maryland plates at Kiss N Ride?

At least Dale put in ratio allocations for staffing so positions were not only tied to programs. That is the only thing he's done worthwhile IMHO.

The age of a school board member and their children [if any] or grandchildren [if any] is irrelevant. I'd vote for a WWII /Korea vet who went through the depression and college on the GI Bill rather than people who have no respect for constituents.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:05AM

New Generation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's been YEARS! Now she's out there trying to show she's close to the schools because she has young grandchildren. WHATEVER! She first took office in 1995. TOOOOOO long. All great organizations need change. She needs to go. The children in McLean, Great Falls and Herndon CANNOT afford another 20 years of old Granny Strauss.<

The people and children of FFX cannot afford 4 more years of Strauss perpetuating a segregated school system.

Compare the demographics of Langley and Cooper with the demographics of Mount Vernon and Sandburg. Then compare them both to the FCPS median.

Then realize that Langley's bizarre demographics are maintained by means of a 17 mile one way bus ride every day, paid for with tax dollars generated by the rest of the County, when 5 other high schools are closer to the Forestville, Great Falls and Colvin Run attendance areas.

And recognized that Strauss moved heaven and earth to keep Langley out of the SLHS redistricting and the obvious conclusion is that Janie belongs to the Harry Flood Byrd, George Wallace, Lester Maddox party.

Its 2011 not 1961. Time for segregationists to leave the stage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2011 09:05AM by Thomas More.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: no ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:49AM

Janie is just a "limousine liberal" like our President who says to "sacrifice" but has his wife spend lots of money using Air Force 2 to go to Spain, Hawaii three days early and to Vail and who knows where else.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: BraddockDistrict ()
Date: February 28, 2011 10:54AM

tartre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Louise Epstein is not a one issue candidate. She
> has a depth and breadth of knowledge that covers
> lots of issues. Just ask her about the byzantine
> FCPS budget or about just one huge wasteful chunk
> of the budget: instructional specialists and other
> central admin employees. She can quote chapter
> and verse on how wasteful central admin alone is.
> She has solutions. She will not toe the company
> line. Wish I could vote for her!

+1

And I wish I could vote for her, too.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: February 28, 2011 10:57AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The people and children of FFX cannot afford 4
> more years of Strauss perpetuating a segregated
> school system.
>
> Compare the demographics of Langley and Cooper
> with the demographics of Mount Vernon and
> Sandburg. Then compare them both to the FCPS
> median.
>
> Then realize that Langley's bizarre demographics
> are maintained by means of a 17 mile one way bus
> ride every day, paid for with tax dollars
> generated by the rest of the County, when 5 other
> high schools are closer to the Forestville, Great
> Falls and Colvin Run attendance areas.
>
> And recognized that Strauss moved heaven and earth
> to keep Langley out of the SLHS redistricting and
> the obvious conclusion is that Janie belongs to
> the Harry Flood Byrd, George Wallace, Lester
> Maddox party.
>
> Its 2011 not 1961. Time for segregationists to
> leave the stage.

That's a bit over the top, no? McLean HS is in Strauss's district, and she doesn't seem to have a problem with the fact that minority kids from Timber Lane ES go there, even though they live closer to Falls Church or Marshall.

In Langley's case, the school is in the wealthiest part of the county. You'd have to adopt 1970s-style busing to change its demographics very much. That will never happen in this county, and Langley will never look like Sandburg.

What could - and perhaps should - have been done is keep Langley smaller, at about 1600-1700 students, rather than build an addition that allows kids in the western part of Great Falls, not to mention parts of Reston, to continue to go there instead of South Lakes or Herndon. It's bizarre that we continue to pay for these kids to be bussed 17 miles.

However, this area is in Dranesville, and I suspect these families would only vote for Epstein rather than Strauss if they thought Epstein would maintain the current boundaries/social order.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: sully district school board ()
Date: February 28, 2011 12:00PM

Just heard that Smith is considering run against Frey.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: school board war? ()
Date: February 28, 2011 12:13PM


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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Skeptical ()
Date: February 28, 2011 12:49PM

school board war? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu's op-ed
>
> http://reston.patch.com/articles/fec-right-initial
> s-wrong-name
>
> response by some "common sense" school board
> members:
>
> http://reston.patch.com/articles/gibsons-criticism
> -without-merit

That is so sweet.

Stu's diatribe looks more and more like a parting shot from a despot who's been shown the door.

With thoughtful people from both parties co-signing this letter, it sends a fairly strong signal that some have clearly heard the voices for reform.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 28, 2011 03:53PM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a bit over the top, no?

Actually, no

> McLean HS is in Strauss's district,<

and its numbers are almost as bad as Langley's:

County average 45% white - McLean 61%

County average 18% hispanic - McLean 9% - must be those darn Timberlane kids

County average 10% black - McLean 3%

County average 22% F/RL - McLean 9%

County average 12% LEP - McLean 11% - those Timberlane kids again?

> You'd have to adopt 1970s-style busing to change its demographics very
much.<

Actually we're using 70's style busing to keep Langley almost lily white and decidedly all rich. 17 mile bus rides one way?

It's not about the length of the ride but the look of the destination that drives these attendance boundaries.

> That will never happen in this county, and Langley will never look like Sandburg.<

Excellent job setting up a straw man and knocking him down.

No one says Langley needs to look like Mount Vernon.

How about Langley looking like something within shouting distance of the County averages:

County average 45% white - Langley 73%

County average 18% hispanic - langley 3%

County average 10% black - Langley 2%

County average 22% F/RL - Langley 2%

County average 12% LEP - Langley 4%

If 17 miles is the acceptable limit of a high school bus ride, a circle drawn 17 miles around Langley would encompass plenty of population that would bring Langley's numbers closer to the County mean in these key demographics.

How about Forest Edge getting swapped for Forestville, for example?

Janie made damn sure that would never happen.

Lets look at the 3rd school in Dranesville, the one Janie's abandoned.

County average 45% white - Herndon 51%

County average 18% hispanic - Herndon 21%

County average 10% black - Herndon 10%

County average 22% F/RL - Herndon 26%

County average 12% LEP - Herndon 16%

Janie had the chance to have Herndon and Langley look more like each other, not exactly alike but more alike, and she made damn sure they wouldn't.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:12PM

It's not 17 miles, not even for the furthest home in the Langley pyramid. It's more like 13-14 miles. Plus there are Herndon, Vienna, and Reston homes that feed to Langley.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:45PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not 17 miles, not even for the furthest home in the Langley pyramid. It's more like 13-14 miles. Plus there are Herndon, Vienna, and Reston homes that feed to Langley.<

Hey factoid -

As if 13 miles versus 17 makes a difference. No other FFX high school has a bus run that long.

BTW, use Google Maps and it's 17 miles from Langley to the Loudoun County line.

What "Herndon" homes feed Langley? What elementary school are the "Herndon" kids going to?

Are the "Vienna" and "Reston" kids going to Colvin Run?

So what if there is a handful of houses with Herndon, Vienna and Reston postal addresses going to Langley. They're still overwhelming white and nearly all rich.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: this is it ()
Date: February 28, 2011 04:45PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> The people and children of FFX cannot afford 4
> more years of Strauss perpetuating a segregated
> school system.
>
> Compare the demographics of Langley and Cooper
> with the demographics of Mount Vernon and
> Sandburg. Then compare them both to the FCPS
> median.
>
> Then realize that Langley's bizarre demographics
> are maintained by means of a 17 mile one way bus
> ride every day, paid for with tax dollars
> generated by the rest of the County, when 5 other
> high schools are closer to the Forestville, Great
> Falls and Colvin Run attendance areas.
>
> And recognized that Strauss moved heaven and earth
> to keep Langley out of the SLHS redistricting and
> the obvious conclusion is that Janie belongs to
> the Harry Flood Byrd, George Wallace, Lester
> Maddox party.
>
> Its 2011 not 1961. Time for segregationists to
> leave the stage.

Agree with the above.

From what I've observed, Louise Epstein would not simply focus on "her" programs. It seems like she has a lot of interest and practical knowledge on what is and IS NOT effective and efficient in education. Great education should not take an entire fleet of administrators at Gatehouse who do NO TEACHING.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 05:16PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's not 17 miles, not even for the furthest
> home in the Langley pyramid. It's more like 13-14
> miles. Plus there are Herndon, Vienna, and Reston
> homes that feed to Langley.<
>
> Hey factoid -
>
> As if 13 miles versus 17 makes a difference. No
> other FFX high school has a bus run that long.
>
> BTW, use Google Maps and it's 17 miles from
> Langley to the Loudoun County line.
>
> What "Herndon" homes feed Langley? What
> elementary school are the "Herndon" kids going
> to?
>
> Are the "Vienna" and "Reston" kids going to Colvin
> Run?
>
> So what if there is a handful of houses with
> Herndon, Vienna and Reston postal addresses going
> to Langley. They're still overwhelming white and
> nearly all rich.

Well I did use google maps.

From the very last address on Seneca Road (which is the Loudoun line) to Langley, it's just under 14 miles down 193 to Langley. From Dranesville Tavern (which is Herndon, BTW, and in the Langley Pyramid), it's just under 12 miles, again down 193, which is the way the buses run.

Also, take a look at Lake Braddock or South County, they have similar rural areas and similar distances.

So your distance argument is complete BS.

As far as the demographics, I'm not sure what your suggestion is. Great Falls alreadys pays significantly higher property taxes and receives the same public education and other services that others in the county pay significantly less for. Is it not enough to pay more in taxes, and have unrenovated schools with no ADK or other luxuries? How much would you take away from the "overwhelming white and nearly all rich" before you felt good about it?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: an observer ()
Date: February 28, 2011 05:36PM

The fact is that Herndon High is much closer to many areas that are bussed to Langley.

The fact is that Langley High was expanded when many who attend Langley lived much closer to South Lakes High School--and there was a LOT of space available at South Lakes.

The fact is that all Langley students were left out of the South Lakes redistricting when Westfield students who had just gone through a boundary adjustment from Oakton three years before were prime targets of Stu Gibson. The Westfield students were split up between Westfield and South Lakes.

The fact is that the only constituents that Janie ponied up for the South Lakes study were those who attended Madison-even though there were Langley students who lived closer. Could it be that she could "sacrifice" those votes to keep the greater portion of her constituents happy?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Different story, same idea ()
Date: February 28, 2011 05:56PM

Clifton elementary is closing. I have learned to accept this. What I cannot accept is my kids being sent way over to Oak View. There are three elementary schools that are closer to us.

FCPS are failing our kids. The SB cannot figure out simple math.

I will learn to accept my kids going to Oak View but it may take some time. I guess I can think about it while they are on the bus for an hour and a half each day.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: forward ()
Date: February 28, 2011 06:04PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > facts Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It's not 17 miles, not even for the furthest
> > home in the Langley pyramid. It's more like
> 13-14
> > miles. Plus there are Herndon, Vienna, and
> Reston
> > homes that feed to Langley.<
> >
> > Hey factoid -
> >
> > As if 13 miles versus 17 makes a difference. No
> > other FFX high school has a bus run that long.
> >
> > BTW, use Google Maps and it's 17 miles from
> > Langley to the Loudoun County line.
> >
> > What "Herndon" homes feed Langley? What
> > elementary school are the "Herndon" kids going
> > to?
> >
> > Are the "Vienna" and "Reston" kids going to
> Colvin
> > Run?
> >
> > So what if there is a handful of houses with
> > Herndon, Vienna and Reston postal addresses
> going
> > to Langley. They're still overwhelming white
> and
> > nearly all rich.
>
> Well I did use google maps.
>
> From the very last address on Seneca Road (which
> is the Loudoun line) to Langley, it's just under
> 14 miles down 193 to Langley. From Dranesville
> Tavern (which is Herndon, BTW, and in the Langley
> Pyramid), it's just under 12 miles, again down
> 193, which is the way the buses run.
>
> Also, take a look at Lake Braddock or South
> County, they have similar rural areas and similar
> distances.
>
> So your distance argument is complete BS.
>
> As far as the demographics, I'm not sure what your
> suggestion is. Great Falls alreadys pays
> significantly higher property taxes and receives
> the same public education and other services that
> others in the county pay significantly less for.
> Is it not enough to pay more in taxes, and have
> unrenovated schools with no ADK or other luxuries?
> How much would you take away from the
> "overwhelming white and nearly all rich" before
> you felt good about it?


Clifton pays significantly higher property taxes and receives LESS public services (no public water, sewer, etc), yet this current School Board wasn't going to feel good about it until they took the entire school away - which they have done. Great Falls is probably next on the closure list if Kathy Smith or Liz Bradsher has any say in it. And guess what -- Strauss voted yes on the boundary changes. Epstein would be the better choice going forward.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 06:34PM

forward Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clifton pays significantly higher property taxes
> and receives LESS public services (no public
> water, sewer, etc

The two Great Falls ES's have a combined population of greater than 1300 students, versus the one Clifton ES school of less than 400. Now I don't think FCPS should have closed Clifton, but the population numbers are not even close, so there's little chance of either of them closing.

Also, no home in Great Falls north of 193 get's city water or sewer.

According to Zillow, the average home value in Great Falls is about 900K, and for Clifton it's 550K.

So all the facts you cite in your arguments are actually not facts at all - just what you want to beleive. They are are all wrong and easily refuted.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: To Great Falls ()
Date: February 28, 2011 06:44PM

Great Falls has two great community schools. Lucky you! Great Falls also is a much larger area in Fairfax so that is why you have more kids in your schools.

My kids are going to be on the bus each day for over an hour. Oak View will now have over 700 kids. Oak View was not built to handle that many children.

You pay more in taxes because your homes are worth more. Stop bitching. I think you have it pretty good.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: February 28, 2011 06:54PM

Thomas - I think it would be good if someone took a hard look at the current boundaries and considered how to make them more logical and less gerry-mandered.

I expect it would be a more challenging exercise than you suggest, particularly given where the various schools are actually located, and that any effort that established as an overarching goal achieving specific race-based targets at each and every school would simply end up driving people to other jurisdictions or private schools.

However, if you think Louise Epstein would take a different approach towards the current boundaries for Dranesville students than Jane Strauss, I'd welcome hearing why you think that might be the case. So far all I really see is your expressing your dislike of Strauss.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: yeah ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:09PM

Different story, same idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will learn to accept my kids going to Oak View
> but it may take some time. I guess I can think
> about it while they are on the bus for an hour and
> a half each day.


Hey, it'll be good practice for when they go to Robinson!

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: responding to yeah ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:18PM

yeah wrote:

Different story, same idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will learn to accept my kids going to Oak View
> but it may take some time. I guess I can think
> about it while they are on the bus for an hour and
> a half each day.


Hey, it'll be good practice for when they go to Robinson

to yeah: I think your name must be Liz.

There's a big difference between a long bus ride for a middle school student and a kindergartener. Do you or have you ever had a five year old? Would you want them on a bus ride that long? Even in Great Falls, the elementary schools are within a reasonable distance.
The kids will be exhausted--or drowsy--by the time they get to school.

If there were not other choice, it would be understandable--but "to Great Falls" said that there are THREE closer schools--not counting Clifton that they are closing.

I live in a subdivision in another district--but I can tell you that the people in Clifton deserve a school just as much as friends of Liz.

And Kathy talks about the "children".....

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: okton ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:20PM

Here is Strauss's kid Eric

STRAUSS ","ERIC "," ","023"," 702","TAMARACK #1C ","WY","HERNDON ","VA","07/22/2006","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC "," ","023"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","10/13/2006","DISREGARD TRAFFIC LIGHTS "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC "," ","023"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","11/30/2006","IMPROPER LANE CHANGE "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC "," ","023"," 1316","ROCKLAND TERR "," ","MCLEAN ","VA","04/02/2006","DRIVE UNACCOMPD LEARNER "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC "," ","023"," 1316","ROCKLAND TERR "," ","MCLEAN ","VA","04/02/2006","EQUIPMENT EXHAUST SYS "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","D","030"," 01726","GREAT FALLS ","ST","MCLEAN ","VA","10/18/2002","60-64MPH/45MPH ZONE "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","D","032"," 1726","GREAT FALLS ","ST","MCLEAN ","VA","05/16/2004","NO/STATE INSPECTION "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","D","032"," 1726","GREAT FALLS ","ST","MCLEAN ","VA","11/11/2004","EQUIPMENT BRAKE LIGHTS "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","02/02/2007","OBSTRUCT DRIVERS VIEW STICKERS "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","02/04/2007","70-74MPH/45MPH ZONE "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","03/27/2007","TINTED WINDOWS "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","09/02/2007","FAIL TO YIELD T INTERSECTION "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1805","SYCAMORE VALLEY #104","DR","RESTON ","VA","11/22/2007","DEFECTIVE EQUIPMENT GENERAL "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1805","SYCAMORE VALLEY #104","DR","RESTON ","VA","11/23/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON CARRY 2 OFF "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1805","SYCAMORE VALLEY #104","DR","RESTON ","VA","11/23/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON CARRY 2 OFF "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1805","SYCAMORE VALLEY #104","DR","RESTON ","VA","11/23/2007","POSS MARIJUANA "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1805","SYCAMORE VALLEY #104","DR","RESTON ","VA","11/28/2007","POSS MARIJUANA "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","024"," 1805","SYCAMORE VALLEY #104","DR","RESTON ","VA","12/07/2007","PROBATION VIOLATION "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","026"," 11567","NORTH SHORE #12 ","DR","RESTON ","VA","09/03/2009","POSS CONTROLLED DRUG FEL "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","026"," 11567","NORTH SHORE #12 ","DR","RESTON ","VA","09/03/2009","POSS CONTROLLED DRUG FEL "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","L","026"," 11567","NORTH SHORE #12 ","DR","RESTON ","VA","09/03/2009","POSS MARIJUANA "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW #13 ","DR","RESTON ","VA","06/27/2007","FAIL TO REPORT OL CHG/ADDRESS-DMV "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC ","P","035"," 13504","COVEY ","LA","CLIFTON ","VA","05/09/2006","60-64MPH/45MPH ZONE "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","023"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","07/22/2006","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT "
"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","024"," 12022","WATERSIDE VIEW ","DR","RESTON ","VA","03/27/2007","POSS MARIJUANA "

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:23PM

To Great Falls Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great Falls has two great community schools. Lucky
> you! Great Falls also is a much larger area in
> Fairfax so that is why you have more kids in your
> schools.
>
> My kids are going to be on the bus each day for
> over an hour. Oak View will now have over 700
> kids. Oak View was not built to handle that many
> children.
>
> You pay more in taxes because your homes are worth
> more. Stop bitching. I think you have it pretty
> good.


22066 (Great Falls) is 26 sq miles. 20124 (Clifton) is 22 sq miles. Great Falls is not a 'much larger' area. Again, not letting facts get in the way of your argument, are you?

Oh, and my kids' bus ride is 35 minutes each morning and afternoon - for an hour and ten minutes per day on the bus.

Perhaps if you had a better command of the facts, your arguments with FCPS would have prevailed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: maryland plates? ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:23PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> forward Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Clifton pays significantly higher property
> taxes
> > and receives LESS public services (no public
> > water, sewer, etc
>
> The two Great Falls ES's have a combined
> population of greater than 1300 students, versus
> the one Clifton ES school of less than 400. Now I
> don't think FCPS should have closed Clifton, but
> the population numbers are not even close, so
> there's little chance of either of them closing.
>
> Also, no home in Great Falls north of 193 get's
> city water or sewer.
>
> According to Zillow, the average home value in
> Great Falls is about 900K, and for Clifton it's
> 550K.
>
> So all the facts you cite in your arguments are
> actually not facts at all - just what you want to
> beleive. They are are all wrong and easily
> refuted.


Facts: Many Great Falls children go to Colvin Run which is in Vienna [not the town] on the way down Route 7 to Tysons. It is in a development called Shouse Village and you can walk to Wolf Trap [the performing arts center].

Irony is Wolf Trap Elementary is now not the school by the opera. That is not walkable.

Also the Loudoun Line is not seneca Road. I guess you are confused since it is further west. Langley's boundary goes all the way to Sterling. Check the maps on the FCPS website.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Strauss's promises ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:29PM

Janie Strauss, Dranesville School Board

Thursday, October 16, 2003


Office sought: School Board member, Dranesville Representative
Party affiliation: endorsed by the Democratic party
Previous offices: School Board member At-Large, 1991-1993, School Board member, Dranesville Representative, 1996-2003.
Occupation: School Board member
Previous employment: Teacher, Country Day School, McLean 1982, Green Acres School, Rockville, 1973-1977, Boston Children's Museum 1971-1973, South End Settlements (Boston), 1969-1970.
Education: George Washington University, BA, history, 1969, Harvard University Graduate School of Education, MAT, 1971
Endorsements: FEA

1. What is your top public-service accomplishment?
Maintaining a rigorous well rounded program for all students that goes well beyond the basics that also recognizes the individual needs of students whether they are GT, RK, disabled, LEP, low socioeconomic, or minority. In spite of tight budgets, state and federal mandates and dramatic demographic shifts we have kept programs that other school divisions have had to cut. We have also sustained funding for the extra resources needed by our children with the greatest challenges. Programs such as Excel, modified calendar, all day kg, extra remediation opportunities, parent liaisons, etc. are all examples of such important programs. In most other school divisions that have experienced the increases we've seen in the neediness of many of our students, student test scores would begin to fall. Here in Fairfax, students are achieving at higher levels than ever. (rising SATs, SOLs, DRA, PALs, Stanford 9,AP and IB scores) More time in school, focused instruction, better use of data to highlight students specific deficits well at the same time maintaining solid well rounded programs for all (the arts, foreign language, AP, IB, technology, co-curricular and extra curricular activities, etc.) has paid off handsomely for our students. I was also very pleased with the outcome with the FY 2004 budget - higher pay for teachers and smaller class sizes. I am very pleased with the opening of Colvin Run Elementary. While the sighting and boundary decisions were difficult, many, many community members stayed at the table with us so that the final decision, I think, was fair for all. Also the bus run from the farthest away neighborhood (Fox Run 8) is only 32 minutes ñ not the 55+ minutes feared by the community. We have also done some major building work at Forestville and Great Falls over the summer to improve the classroom environments there. I am also very pleased with the progress we've made in program evaluation, data driven analysis of student progress and need, public analysis of budget decisions, public/private partnerships involving the new high school in South County, Energy Savings for Kids, and the potential savings and elementary classroom we will gain from the sale/reuse of old properties. IIN the last few years FCPS has won awards for business, budget, and IT practices that more often are awarded to business. I am very proud of these accomplishments. In some cases we are being compared with other large private corporations and coming up as the winner.

2. Incumbents: Describe the top accomplishment of your last term. Why shouldn’t voters blame you for current problems in your district?
See above

3. What are the top five problems facing your constituents and what approaches will you use to solve them? Describe one challenge (or more) in your district that is different than other parts of the county.
Keeping a rigorous well rounded program for all students in spit of tight budget and demographic shifts - attracting and retaining the best teachers, building and renovating enough classrooms, reducing class size, keeping our children and schools safe and nurturing, maintaining open and accountable budgets and program evaluation, meeting state and federal mandates - SOLs, NCLB, IDEA A challenge in my community - making sure those students who need extra help do not fall through the cracks because the overall average achievement in their school is very high. For a number of years - before NCLB - we have attempted to get schools to focus on all children. The SAI was formulated in a way that would minimize the masking of needy or failing children with an otherwise high average achievement in a school. Every child needs to be helped and pushed to achieve at the highest level possible. We are here to educate all children not just those who learn easily. In the past in the US system of education, failure by a certain per cent of the school population was acceptable. While 100% success may never be a reasonable expectation, we can not accept the old sorting norm of the early 20th century education system that has been the backbone of k-12 education until the demise of the industrial age and the advent of the information age. Our definition of literacy has changed and more students must be educated to a higher level.


4. What qualities, qualifications and characteristics will you bring to this office?
I am patient and willing to keep working with the community and our schools to solve difficult issues. Day to day success in the classroom takes hard work every day. The same is true with School Board service. There are few easy answers or quick fix solutions - and because we are responsible for other families' children and using tax payers money, we must always be open and accountable to our families and tax payers.

5. How will voters best distinguish between you and your opponent(s)?
I have no opponent

6. What is the minority achievement gap? How have the schools been successfully addressing this gap? What more can they do?
The gap is the difference in achievement scores of black, Hispanic, white, Asian, LEP, low socioeconomic students. In Fairfax County, our Asian students tend to outscore everyone while those students who are low socioeconomic, minority and LEP tend to score the lowest. Our goal is to help the low achieving groups come-up to the average norms of the white and Asian students. In Fairfax County, all groups of students are improving, some groups are moving faster than others - especially our Asian students ñ so while the lines on the graphs maybe going up, the gap isn't necessarily closing.

7. What is your understanding of research studies into the effect of school size on student achievement? What are the implications for FCPS?
In large schools where children feel lost in the crowd, they can feel as though no one cares about them or is paying attention to their needs - and this can, in fact be the case - As a result these children may fall through the cracks academically and display negative behaviors. In FCPS we have tried to create a sense of a school within a school, especially in our middle schools with the team concept - middle school is a very important and vulnerable time for young teens. If we had unlimited funds, it would be wonderful to be able to build and staff many, many more schools so that schools would be no larger than 300 to 600. But since this is not realistic, we must keep an eye on opportunities to create smaller groupings within schools so that students have consistent groups of adults working with reasonable numbers of children.

8. What is your understanding of research studies on sleep patterns of teenagers and the implications for high school start times?
Again, in an ideal world where we could compress the opening and closing time for our schools - reduce that time from the current 2 hours to 1 hour - so that all schools could open between 8:00 and 9:00, we have school hours that would better match the sleep needs of everyone. But to do this we would have to buy many more buses and hire many more teachers. Large school divisions that must also run large transportation system ñ that have also over the years not bought enough buses as the populations have increased and instead increased the number of bus runs per bus and widened the opening and closing times ñ have found it very difficult to go back, begin buying more buses. With incredible pressure on school budgets and the need to prioritize i.e. class size, teacher pay, building schools, high stakes tests, vs. more buses ñ in the end the buses have lost. In FCPS we have had community committees look at whether we could rearrange our schedules better and the proposals with the least cost are the least satisfactory - flipping elementary with high school.In the coming years, we will probably look at this again.

9. If reducing class size is a priority, how would you re-allocate the budget to pay for this change?
The FY2004 budget was a good example of trying to lower class size and raise pay. However, what gave us the opening in the first place is that the state did not cut funding for k-12 and the Board of Supervisors came through with the funds we had hoped for. But in the end we did not fund a number of smaller initiatives for individual schools; we help back on technology, buses, maintenance, new initiatives, additional pay increase for other employees and a host of other things. Also departments did not get any increases at all and, for the most part, had to eat any normal costs related to inflation or market place fluctuations.

10. Is there "waste" in the school budget? If so, where and how much? If you can't pinpoint precisely, in what specific area would you begin looking?
Every year, we must focus on what the classrooms really need and make that our priority. In the last 10 years we have driven down our overhead and nonschool based costs and have driven more money into schools and classrooms. With numerous audits over the years by internal and external groups, while there tends to be no "low hanging fruit" because we are a well managed and efficient system, we have taken advantage of new ways of approaching things ñ such as Clusters instead of Area offices public/private partnerships for capital projects, patenting and selling IT projects, reorganizing and downsizing the management structure, etc.

11. Has the cluster director system been successful? If so, give examples. If not, what alternatives should be explored?
Yes, we have reduced the span of control and support from 68 to 28 schools. This has improved the supervision of schools so that they are all more likely to be going in the direction we want - it also brings help and support much more quickly to schools and parents. We did all this at the same time we cut administrative positions.

12. What have been the advantages and disadvantages of SOLs?
Advantages - grade by grade curriculum content standards and in some cases a needed increase in rigor with a corresponding standardized test to judge progress toward the new content goals. Disadvantages - judging all instruction and learning on the bases of a stand-alone high stakes test. Standards and test are needed and an increase in the standard was welcome. But there also has to be recognition of other important factors that neither the test nor the standards always address appropriately (disabilities, age appropriateness of content, adequate resources, etc.)

13. Explain how No Child Left Behind sets standards on categories of students and its implications for Fairfax County schools.
NCLB requires AYP so that by 2014 all students achieve at the proficient level on the SOLs. The state has set the pass rate this year as 61% in reading and 59% in math. Each subgroup (black, Hispanic, white, Asian, low socioeconomic, disabled and LEP) must also pass and each group must have at least 50 in the group to be counted. Each group must also have 95% taking the test. If a subgroup doesn't meet either the participation goal or the pass rate the entire school doesn't meet the AYP. The status of each school will be made public. If schools fail two years in a row parents must be given the option to put their children in another school and given transportation ñ students must be given the option of receiving further remediation in either a public or private setting. Also all teachers in Title 1 schools must be highly qualified ñ and if not, parents must be notified. This requirement will be spread to all schools in 2005-06.

14. If you had an extra $1 million to spend on the school system any way you would like, how would you spend it?
$1 million - I would offer all day kindergarten to more needy children. Our evaluations are showing that more time in school and focused instruction for your youngest children goes a long way toward improving reading achievement. Closing the achievement gap in the earliest grades is far better and more effective than trying to play catch-up when the children are older.

15. What are the hallmarks of a well-run school? Include measurable characteristics.
Hallmarks - High and/or rising achievement and behavior data (DRA, PALs, ECAP, SOL, AP, IB, report card grades, attendance, graduation rates, suspensions and expulsion rates, etc.) for all children paying careful attention to whether all children are being challenged GT, RK, LEP, Special Ed and low socio economic ñ positive climate and behavior -children on task and happy in their classrooms, orderly halls, respect for children and adults, parents welcome at all times, excellent communication among all folks and community, school building in repair with sufficient classrooms and with a comfortable climate, reasonable class sizes, frequent positive parent and community survey results, creative use of local funds (principal and teachers getting grants, community support for special projects, wise trades for locally needed resources) the principal is present in the halls and classrooms and available to all for help, advice, support - and a patient ear.

16. What are the hallmarks of an excellent teacher? Include measurable characteristics.
Teacher - good trend overall in student achievement on all measures - SOLs, AP IB, DRA, ECAP, PALs, etc. Class grades track reasonable with standardized marks, good orderly classrooms where drop-in visitors will see engaged respectful students - and if a problem does occur the teacher handles the situation well (firmly but appropriately with insight into what works for the individual student) Teacher has good communication with parents and gives help and advice promptly.


17. If you were to create your own core curriculum, what subljects would you include? Place in priority order.
Reading, math, social studies, science, foreign language, the arts, P.E. and health, technology, professional technical studies, extra-curricular and co-curricular activities, adult and community education - also all high schools must offer AP and IB courses and all schools must take ownership and responsibilities for all the children in their attendance are regardless of need. Some children will need very specialized services of a center program, but in general the starting must be that all children attend their neighborhood school.


18. What are the advantages and disadvantages of public-private partnerships as they relate to Fairfax County schools?
The South County High School will be built with out using bond funds. Energy Savings for Kids enables us to do some upgrades in our older schools and pay for it out of saved utility costs instead of the operating budget. We hope to build 72 elementary classrooms and consolidate central office workers through the sale and/or trade of older properties. Other partnerships with business have brought our students mentors and support for local projects.


19. How would you increase involvement of the general public in the public schools?
Increase opportunities for input through regular surveys that are convenient and easy to respond to. Encourage PTAs and schools to include their surrounding civic associations in all activities. Welcome all visitors into the schools - (a challenge these days with our need for heightened security) School Board encourage easy contact for the public through e-mail, telephone, snail mail, frequent meetings, casual group discussions. Make sure budget documents are readable and continue to work with focus groups after each budget publication to find out was to improve the next document.

20. How would you increase parental involvement in the public schools?
Make meeting times convenient to parents. Use E-mail. Offer babysitting for night meetings in those communities where childcare is an issue. Welcome input both formal and informal. Appoint principals who are good communicators and create a welcoming school climate. Continue the use of parent liaisons to help parents understand the schools and to raw them in. Schools must be good listeners to all parent concerns whether the concern can be easily met or not ñ and whether the parent is reasonable or not.

21. What additional public safety steps would you recommend in addressing gangs and violent activities on or near school property? Has the rate of violent acts increased, decreased or stayed the same in the last four years? County-wide? By pyramid in the area you live?
The rate of violent acts has decreased. The SRO's have been wonderful as has the Fairfax County Police force in its efforts to identify gang members and restrict their activities. Keeping on top of this takes everyone's vigilance - paying attention to what is going on in school as well as what is going on in the community. The change in state code that allows us to exclude from neighborhood schools students who are involved in criminal behavior in the community has given us an important tool in keeping out children and schools safe.

22. What school-boundary strategies could be used to address the inequity of under- and over-enrolled schools within FCPS?
Having just come through a very challenging boundary process - which I feel turned out for the best, balancing populations will never be easy. Parents most often buy homes and move into communities based on school attendance areas - so changing those areas will be painful no matter how it is done. IT is important that all voices be heard - sometimes when necessary, over and over and over. Those involved in listening and finding the solution must be patient careful listeners - look for fairness, consistency and ultimately what is best and reasonable for children. I went to many, many meetings - some formal and organized and some in folks living rooms. All of these were critical to the understanding of where a balance point could be found. It was also helpful to have the community propose the various scenarios. They have a much better sense of what will work, than those who don't live in their communities. I found the process we used for Colvin Run to be very workable. IT is unrealistic to think that there is some ideal way of redrawing boundaries that it totally easy and painless. One thing we have done in Fairfax County where we offer specialty programs in some schools and allow parents a choice ñ not only does this offer options on a cost effective basis but it also helps to even out some population [problems that boundaries can't solve. IT also helps to draw in other populations of students ñ again when boundaries may not work i.e. Baileys' Magnet.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:29PM

maryland plates? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also the Loudoun Line is not seneca Road. I guess
> you are confused since it is further west.
> Langley's boundary goes all the way to Sterling.
> Check the maps on the FCPS website.

Read maps much? Let me walk you through this. Look at the intersection of 7, 193, and Seneca. Trace Seneca Road North until it's terminus at the piece of NoVa Regional Park that abutts the Potomac. You will see it terminates in a development of homes, half of which are in Loudoun and half of which are in Fairfax.

Tool.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: To facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:40PM

Many homes in Clifton are on five acres. We love it here. In our 22 miles we have only 398 kids in elementary school.

I think we have it better then you.

You are a snob. We may change schools but we still have class.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:48PM

To facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many homes in Clifton are on five acres. We love
> it here. In our 22 miles we have only 398 kids in
> elementary school.
>
> I think we have it better then you.
>
> You are a snob. We may change schools but we still
> have class.

Gave up on all your 'facts' so now you are calling names. Yes, very classy indeed.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Son of Strauss ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:57PM

Is that listing for Eric Strauss really Jane Strauss' son? It's beginning to sound like a large amount of the drug use is in Langley World!

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:58PM

an observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The fact is that Langley High was expanded when
> many who attend Langley lived much closer to South
> Lakes High School--and there was a LOT of space
> available at South Lakes.

You forgot to mention that the Langley expansion was justified in the CIP and to the County taxpayers as needed because there was no room at any HSes with contiguous boundaries.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: To facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:59PM

Gotcha!

Ha ha ha

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Janie understands drop out rate ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:00PM

Graduation rate declines in Fairfax County

By: Leah Fabel 10/21/09 2:00 AM
Examiner Staff Writer

The graduation rate for Hispanic students in Northern Virginia remained far below that of other students, despite pockets of improvement, according to numbers released Tuesday by the state's department of education.

In Fairfax, the state's largest district, 73 percent of Hispanic students graduated with the class of 2009, down from 74 percent in 2008. About 95 percent of their white peers earned a diploma.

In Alexandria, 65 percent of Hispanic students reached the academic milestone, compared to 87 percent of white students. Even so, that's up from 58 percent for the class of 2008. In Arlington, the rate jumped to 69 percent from 64 percent, while 96 percent of white students graduated.

The dropout rate of Hispanic students topped 20 percent for the class of 2009 in all areas but Loudoun County, with the majority quitting school by their junior year.

Overall graduation rates in the Virginia suburbs improved last year in all but Fairfax County, where it fell slightly to about 90 percent for the more than 13,000 students who entered the class of 2009. In 2008, about 91 percent of students graduated.


Who's earning a diploma and who's not "One question I'd like to ask is what does the economy have to do with this -- how many kids are having to work to help support their families?" said Fairfax school board member Jane Strauss.

Even so, Fairfax ranked locally second only to Loudoun. About 94 percent of Loudoun's students made it across the stage with a diploma in 2009, up a fraction of a percentage from last year.

Arlington and Prince William counties both saw about 84 percent of eligible students graduate in four years, and in Alexandria, about 78 percent of students reached the milestone. For each of the school districts, that was about a one-point gain from the previous year.

Statewide, about 83 percent of the students in the class of 2009 graduated in four years. Students are allowed to pursue graduation until they reach 21 years old.

First-year Arlington Superintendent Pat Murphy, formerly a central office administrator in Fairfax, said that "while there are many areas that are positive, there are still particular groups for which we need to focus efforts."

The class of 2009 marked Virginia's second year using a new and more accurate formula for calculating graduation rate, making the rates incomparable with those prior to 2008.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Janie on zero tolerance ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:08PM

In Fairfax, possession of marijuana on school grounds means automatic suspension and a recommendation of expulsion. "There's no discretion at the school level," says Paul Regnier, spokesman for the system. "Virginia law requires that if there's possession of marijuana on school grounds, the student must be expelled unless there are special circumstances."




State law requires drug cases to be handled at the central hearing office, says Fairfax School Board member Jane Strauss. "The zero-tolerance structure is a response to the choices voters have made and to the huge outcry for dealing with drugs on school grounds. The tighter expectations used to be in the private schools. But starting in the early 1980s, there were much tougher rules in the public schools. Now, the toughest rules are in public schools, while there's more give in the private schools."

The goal, Strauss says, "is to save souls, to help kids get through adolescence." In Josh's case, which Strauss would not discuss, his parents say the counseling programs he was assigned to were helpful. But Strauss concedes that "I cannot say there are the very best therapeutic situations available for all children" in the system. "We try, but there are unfortunate tragic situations."

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:15PM

Son of Strauss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that listing for Eric Strauss really Jane
> Strauss' son? It's beginning to sound like a
> large amount of the drug use is in Langley World!


The middle initials and ages jump all over. It's not one person. Get it right if you are going to post from the arrest search.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: maryland plates? ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:18PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> maryland plates? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Also the Loudoun Line is not seneca Road. I
> guess
> > you are confused since it is further west.
> > Langley's boundary goes all the way to Sterling.
>
> > Check the maps on the FCPS website.
>
> Read maps much? Let me walk you through this.
> Look at the intersection of 7, 193, and Seneca.
> Trace Seneca Road North until it's terminus at the
> piece of NoVa Regional Park that abutts the
> Potomac. You will see it terminates in a
> development of homes, half of which are in Loudoun
> and half of which are in Fairfax.
>
> Tool.

Hey. I was just pointing out that Seneca is not the end. That end point on Seneca would be rather absurd to send anywhere but with the rest of Seneca for bus routes.

The Loudoun houses up Seneca don't have a road to Loudoun so they traipse down Seneca.

Maybe you think those areas west of the intersection go to Herndon. People not from this area think they are in Loudoun. Look at that intersection and continue west on 7. Houses behind Woody's on the south side of 7 [Herndon ] go to Langley. Houses up Holly Knoll/Algonkian Parkway go to Langley.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:26PM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I expect it would be a more challenging exercise than you suggest, particularly given where the various schools are actually located, and that any effort that established as an overarching goal achieving specific race-based targets at each and every school

I'm focused on middle and high schools and while it wouldn't be easy its not impossible especially if the axis of the attendance areas are shifted for east-west to north-south

> would simply end up driving people to other jurisdictions or private schools.<

Certainly some might but not a significant percentage of the 175,000 kids that go to FCPS now. The price is just too good.

> However, if you think Louise Epstein would take a different approach towards the current boundaries for Dranesville students than Jane Strauss, I'd welcome hearing why you think that might be the case. So far all I really see is your expressing your dislike of Strauss.<

I believe Epstein would be less wedded to defending the status quo and more interested in the well being of the kids going to Herndon.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:31PM

maryland plates? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe you think those areas west of the
> intersection go to Herndon. People not from this
> area think they are in Loudoun. Look at that
> intersection and continue west on 7. Houses
> behind Woody's on the south side of 7 go to
> Langley. Houses up Holly Knoll/Algonkian Parkway
> go to Langley.


Yes they do. I've looked at the boundary map. All of 22066 goes to Langley, all the way to the Loudoun line. 22066 runs from 7 to the river from Towlston all the way to the Loudoun line.

There are some Reston addresses, Herndon, and Vienna addresses that feed to Langley - it's not a straight line, but about 1/2 mile or so south of 7 from Vienna through Reston through to Herndon at the Loudoun County border.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: what is the penalty for kids in fcps ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:55PM

"STRAUSS ","ERIC LEE ","P","023"," 1316","ROCKLAND ","TE","MCLEAN ","VA","07/22/2006","CONCEALED WEAPON NO PERMIT


huh.....

what does a kid in fcps get for this kinda charge?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: connection ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:02PM

Owner
Name STRAUSS JANE ELIZABETH KAMPS TR,
Mailing Address 1316 ROCKLAND TE MCLEAN VA 22101
Book 20056
Page 0329

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: WatchOut ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:25PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> forward Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Clifton pays significantly higher property
> taxes
> > and receives LESS public services (no public
> > water, sewer, etc
>
> The two Great Falls ES's have a combined
> population of greater than 1300 students, versus
> the one Clifton ES school of less than 400. Now I
> don't think FCPS should have closed Clifton, but
> the population numbers are not even close, so
> there's little chance of either of them closing.
>
> Also, no home in Great Falls north of 193 get's
> city water or sewer.
>
> According to Zillow, the average home value in
> Great Falls is about 900K, and for Clifton it's
> 550K.
>
> So all the facts you cite in your arguments are
> actually not facts at all - just what you want to
> beleive. They are are all wrong and easily
> refuted.


It's not about the size of the school (there are other schools in Fairfax that are same size as Clifton) and it isn't about the renovation costs (Clifton would have been happy to forego a renovation AND other renovations have cost MORE per student than Clifton). It is about this Board's belief in socioeconomic re-engineering. That is a fact. That is what South Lakes was about too. Great Falls watch out.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: puzzler ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:38PM

South Lakes was social engineering. I still think Clifton is something else. If they really wanted social engineering they could have sent in some Powell or Eagle View.

There are some pieces missing to this puzzle.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: more puzzling ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:41PM

Now that I think about it--Tistadt really wanted to build the school at the Liberty site. I still think this whole thing is about building schools.

Think about all the construction going on with this plan. There is a connection there somewhere.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: February 28, 2011 09:52PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm focused on middle and high schools and while
> it wouldn't be easy its not impossible especially
> if the axis of the attendance areas are shifted
> for east-west to north-south
>
>
> I believe Epstein would be less wedded to
> defending the status quo and more interested in
> the well being of the kids going to Herndon.

The easiest change would be to move the Langley kids living out towards Loudoun to Herndon, some of the kids at Herndon who live in Reston to South Lakes, and other Reston kids at South Lakes to Langley. I suppose if the Dranesville and Hunter Mill reps agreed to do this, the rest of the School Board would go along. That may be what you want, but is it what Epstein's would-be Dranesville constituents want or would they instead hand her head to her on a silver platter if she tried?

It's harder to change the current east-west orientation in other parts of the county. Madison, Oakton, Fairfax and Woodson are all very close to one another heading from north to south, which is part of the reasons their attendance areas stretch so far to the west.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: let's leave it alone ()
Date: February 28, 2011 10:00PM

I agree that the boundaries are stupid--but unless they do a whole county boundary study it will never work.

It appears that we are about "built out". I say leave the boundaries alone! They should have done what you suggested when they did the South Lakes study. If Henrdon is under capacity, they could move some Langley in--but I don't think it is under capacity and its boundaries are pretty logical right now.

Neighborhoods will begin to wax and wane with turnover from elders to young families, etc.

Part of the problem is the locations of the schools.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: February 28, 2011 10:09PM

let's leave it alone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that the boundaries are stupid--but unless
> they do a whole county boundary study it will
> never work.
>
> It appears that we are about "built out". I say
> leave the boundaries alone! They should have done
> what you suggested when they did the South Lakes
> study. If Henrdon is under capacity, they could
> move some Langley in--but I don't think it is
> under capacity and its boundaries are pretty
> logical right now.
>
> Neighborhoods will begin to wax and wane with
> turnover from elders to young families, etc.
>
> Part of the problem is the locations of the
> schools.

That's really my point. People can look at the map and see that the current boundaries are gerry-mandered monstrosities, but at this point still prefer the devil they know to the one they don't or the next one the School Board might cook up.

Seems to me that Thomas More might just be making Louise Epstein the repository of his own dreams if he's suggesting she'd take on such an ambitious project.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: FCPS document reader ()
Date: February 28, 2011 10:38PM

This decision was apparently made by Smith and staff when Mason district was vacant. $262,500 for visitor side bleachers?????Really, Mr. Tistadt? And, I guess we want the visitors to be comfortable during school board meetings.


Staff identified the need to use $262,500 in proffer funds to replace the visitor side bleacher
seats at Stuart High School and $30,000 to replace the auditorium seats at Jackson Middle
School.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/8ECTBX76A277/$file/2010-2011%20SB%20Follow%20Up.pdf

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: staff doesn't have time to answer ()
Date: February 28, 2011 10:47PM

In looking at Bailey’s ES, its enrollment is projected to decline in the next five years but that
seems to run counter to what we’re seeing there, including an unexpectedly burst of students at
the kindergarten level. In the dashboard, the early grades have more students than 4th and 5th
grades. Why would this not translate to increased enrollment in the future?
Response: Staff does not have the time to respond to these enrollment projection questions.
We would be happy to provide a response as soon as we complete the southwestern boundary
study, complete our analysis of the Annandale planning study potential solutions, and obtain
School Board approval of the CIP.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 01, 2011 02:57AM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems to me that Thomas More might just be making Louise Epstein the repository of his own dreams if he's suggesting she'd take on such an ambitious project.<

As there are 6 identifiable "white" schools; 3 hispanic schools and one African-American school; a county-wide redistricting is likely the best solution and one advocated by the former Providence School Board member who left to take job in the Obama Administration. Other School Board members agreed but not a clear majority. Strauss had opposed it in the past.

It would only take one or two minority parents to get a court to force a county wide redistricting.

Epstein could not take this on alone as there would need to be 7 votes to move forward but the SB may not have a choice.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 01, 2011 07:18AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As there are 6 identifiable "white" schools; 3
> hispanic schools and one African-American school;
> a county-wide redistricting is likely the best
> solution and one advocated by the former
> Providence School Board member who left to take
> job in the Obama Administration. Other School
> Board members agreed but not a clear majority.
> Strauss had opposed it in the past.
>
> It would only take one or two minority parents to
> get a court to force a county wide redistricting.
>
> Epstein could not take this on alone as there
> would need to be 7 votes to move forward but the
> SB may not have a choice.

I thought there were 25 high schools in the county, not 10.

You've previously posted that judicial challenges to School Board actions are wastes of money that fall on deaf ears. Now you think a Virginia court will embrace your argument that there's de facto segregation that violates the constitutional rights of minority students in Fairfax? Good luck with that.

The alternative scenario is that a new School Board full of reformers would commission a county-wide redistricting study. Given that there were major redistricting in 2008 and again this year, I can think of no single action that a new School Board could take that would more quickly alienate the types of voters who actually follow what the School Board does.

And, the notion that a county-wide redistricting, even if undertaken, would result in "fairer" boundaries is open to question. It would be a free-for-all. How do you think some of the current, bizarre boundaries, such as the current McLean "attendance islands," were created?

If you or Epstein hates Langley or its current boundaries, and wants to change the demographics at Herndon, the best shot at change would be a one-off redistricting that resulted after some type of study ostensibly undertaken to see how the county could save on transportation costs, not some master plan to force demographic parity on every school in the county.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: maryland plates? ()
Date: March 01, 2011 08:31AM

Is this what addresses Thomas More's post? How does the language "closest to residence" apply to Herndon HS /Langley HS common boundary? The children in mclean etc do need a public school so short of desegregation style busing or a magnet at Langley what can you do? Race, color, national origin are stated but not family financial status .


EQUAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY ACT (20 USC Sec. 1703)

TITLE 20 - EDUCATION
CHAPTER 39 - EQUAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES
SUBCHAPTER I - EQUAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES
Part 2 - Unlawful Practices

§ 1703. Denial of equal educational opportunity prohibited

No State shall deny equal educational opportunity to an individual on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin, by -

* (a) the deliberate segregation by an educational agency of students on the basis of race, color, or national origin among or within schools;

* (b) the failure of an educational agency which has formerly practiced such deliberate segregation to take affirmative steps, consistent with part 4 of this subchapter, to remove the vestiges of a dual school system;

* (c) the assignment by an educational agency of a student to a school, other than the one closest to his or her place of residence within the school district in which he or she resides, if the assignment results in a greater degree of segregation of students on the basis of race, color, sex, or national origin among the schools of such agency than would result if such student were assigned to the school closest to his or her place of residence within the school district of such agency providing the appropriate grade level and type of education for such student;

* (d) discrimination by an educational agency on the basis of race, color, or national origin in the employment, employment conditions, or assignment to schools of its faculty or staff, except to fulfill the purposes of subsection (f) below;

* (e) the transfer by an educational agency, whether voluntary or otherwise, of a student from one school to another if the purpose and effect of such transfer is to increase segregation of students on the basis of race, color, or national origin among the schools of such agency; or

* (f) the failure by an educational agency to take appropriate action to overcome language barriers that impede equal participation by its students in its instructional programs.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: boundary watcher ()
Date: March 01, 2011 08:53AM

I think at one time that parts of Great Falls did go to Herndon. (I'm not 100% on that.) But, the biggest problem with a lot of the boundaries throughout the area is that when builders were opening subdivisions (particularly those along Route 7 that go to Langley and live very near South Lakes), they somehow got an exception to school zoning and managed to get the subdivision in Langley school district. Langley sold better than South Lakes. I'm sure this has gone on in other areas, too. They were left out of South Lakes study.

Another area not mentioned here are the students that go to Oakton, yet live very close to South Lakes. Check out the boundary maps. People right by Fox Mill shopping center along Reston Parkway go to Oakton. They go to Crossfield. They got dropped very early in the South Lakes redistricting. Perhaps because the guy leading the charge against it lived in a Crossfield community. Once they exempted Crossfield he lost interest.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 01, 2011 09:01AM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought there were 25 high schools in the county, not 10.<

The other 14 (TJ doesn't count) are closer to the county averages in most demographics

> You've previously posted that judicial challenges to School Board actions are wastes of money that fall on deaf ears. Now you think a Virginia court will embrace your argument that there's de facto segregation that violates the constitutional rights of minority students in Fairfax? Good luck with that.<

The boundary/school closing cases have no case law or statutory support as Patton Boggs' tactics make clear.

There's plenty of case law and statutory law on de facto desegregation. The case would probably be brought in Federal court but the judges of the Fairfax Circuit court would take such a case seriously.

> The alternative scenario is that a new School Board full of reformers would commission a county-wide redistricting study. Given that there were major redistricting in 2008 and again this year, I can think of no single action that a new School Board could take that would more quickly alienate the types of voters who actually follow what the School Board does.<

Neither redistricting was major. The last major redistricting was done in the early 90s.

The current Board acknowledged the prospect of a County wide redisticting but its principal proponent left the Board last year.

While many folks will oppose any boundary adjustment, those numbers were enhanced in the SLHS case because Langley was left out of the study area and in the recent case because the closing of Clifton made no sense.

A more open process without obvious hidden agendas has a better chance of broad based support.

> And, the notion that a county-wide redistricting, even if undertaken, would result in "fairer" boundaries is open to question.<

Why?

>How do you think some of the current, bizarre boundaries, such as the current McLean "attendance islands," were created?<

Tell us.

> If you or Epstein hates Langley or its current boundaries, and wants to change the demographics at Herndon, the best shot at change would be a one-off redistricting that resulted after some type of study ostensibly undertaken to see how the county could save on transportation costs, not some master plan to force demographic parity on every school in the county.<

Not every school- only 10 schools, which is more than just Langley but less than all.

Why would anyone be afraid of a redistricting to achieve demographics more closely reflecting the County medians at each high school?

When the redistricting in the 90s was undertaken, FCPS was still a majority "white" system. Its not anymore and probably will never be again.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: March 01, 2011 09:02AM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's really my point. People can look at the
> map and see that the current boundaries are
> gerry-mandered monstrosities, but at this point
> still prefer the devil they know to the one they
> don't or the next one the School Board might cook
> up.

Boundaries follow the population increase/decrease over time. If you wanted uniform boundaries, you'd be doing a complete rework of all school boundaries every 5 - 10 years, as communities age, turnover, etc. They may be 'gerry mandered' at the very edges, but in general they follow the population and demographic patterns. An ES boundary bumps out to pull in a condo or townhouse development, or shoots in to avoid it, in relation to the population and capacity of the school at that time.

There is also the problem of the physical placement of schools. If you look at the boundary maps on the FCPS web site, you'll see many schools, especially high schools, that have significant variation in travel times for students where the school sits not in the center of it's attendance zone, but very close to the edge of it. You cannot draw a boundary map based solely on geography - it has to take into account where the kids live.

I think also there is a bias toward the status quo - 'this community has always gone to X ES, or been part of Y HS pyramid.' People buy houses, join community and sports programs, etc. on the assumption that school boundaries are for the most part pretty stable.

Lastly, on the class warfare aspect of some of these posts - people with similar socio-economic levels have always lived in communities of likely situated people - whether rich, poor, black, white, etc. It's true in Fairfax, DC, everywhere. There is no legal restriction on anyone living anywhere they want - they are only limited by their ability to pay for it and their choices on who they might want to associate with. That should be enough - we don't need to start busing kids around or re-districting schools to meet some diversity goal that gets us - what exactly?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 01, 2011 09:08AM

boundary watcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think at one time that parts of Great Falls did
> go to Herndon. (I'm not 100% on that.)

Forestville and Great Falls went to Herndon until the 90s


> But, the biggest problem with a lot of the boundaries throughout the area is that when builders were opening subdivisions (particularly those along Route 7 that go to Langley and live very near South Lakes), they somehow got an exception to school zoning and managed to get the subdivision in Langley school district. Langley sold better than South Lakes. I'm sure this has gone on in other areas, too. They were left out of South Lakes study.<

While this did happen, the number of kids involved were puny compared to moving Forestville and Great Falls from Herndon to Langley
>
> Another area not mentioned here are the students that go to Oakton, yet live very close to South Lakes. Check out the boundary maps. People right by Fox Mill shopping center along Reston Parkway go to Oakton. They go to Crossfield. They got dropped very early in the South Lakes redistricting. Perhaps because the guy leading the charge against it lived in a Crossfield community. Once they exempted Crossfield he lost interest.<

Oakton is another of the 6 high schools that is identifiably white in a majority minority FCPS.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: not gonna happen ()
Date: March 01, 2011 09:57AM

This conversation is just silly. No court Va or federal is going to order FCPS to redraw their high school boundaries.

We can't even do a simple boundary adjustment for Annandale/Woodson/Falls Church/Stuart and you think they will tackle a county wide project?

School choice is the only option. Let's close the crappy schools, add on to the good ones, provide transportation and call it a day.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: why not? ()
Date: March 01, 2011 10:48AM

not gonna happen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> School choice is the only option. Let's close the
> crappy schools, add on to the good ones, provide
> transportation and call it a day.


Any idea on why the Clifton parents couldn't just take over CES as a charter school and run it themselves? Seems like a win-win for everyone - FCPS gets rid of a facility it does not want, parents/kids get a local school, teachers/admins can stay in a less bureaucratic environment....Was this ever considered?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Skeptical ()
Date: March 01, 2011 11:11AM

why not? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any idea on why the Clifton parents couldn't just
> take over CES as a charter school and run it
> themselves? Seems like a win-win for everyone -
> FCPS gets rid of a facility it does not want,
> parents/kids get a local school, teachers/admins
> can stay in a less bureaucratic environment....Was
> this ever considered?

There is a group trying to turn Clifton into a charter school. But there are multiple hurdles, including acquiring the building, satisfying the state and county that the charter school will meet educational requirements, and attracting families and teachers to the school.

Whether the county plays ball remains to be seen. They don't want to listen to Clifton parents, but that doesn't mean they necessarily want to liberate them, either.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 01, 2011 01:49PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The other 14 (TJ doesn't count) are closer to the
> county averages in most demographics

So you get to decide which schools' demographics fall within an acceptable range? What happens the next year when the percentages have shifted again? And why focus on race but not income levels?

> There's plenty of case law and statutory law on de
> facto desegregation. The case would probably be
> brought in Federal court but the judges of the
> Fairfax Circuit court would take such a case
> seriously.

No state or federal judge is going to invalidate the current FCPS boundaries. Not going to happen.


> Neither redistricting was major. The last major
> redistricting was done in the early 90s.

I'm including the redistricting of 23 elementary schools that's underway now. All involved consider that a major redistricting, and families whose elementary school kids have just been redistricted won't look any more kindly on the next redistricting simply because it involves high schools.

> The current Board acknowledged the prospect of a
> County wide redisticting but its principal
> proponent left the Board last year.

Phil is a nice guy, but he was not very effective as a School Board member. I think his crowning achievements were the new building for Graham Road ES and getting some of Chantilly reassigned to Oakton so Oakton sports teams would remain competitive. Big deal.


> While many folks will oppose any boundary
> adjustment, those numbers were enhanced in the
> SLHS case because Langley was left out of the
> study area and in the recent case because the
> closing of Clifton made no sense.

Agreed.
>
> A more open process without obvious hidden agendas
> has a better chance of broad based support.

Nope. Folks would turn on the new crew on a moment's notice if they thought their kids were being used as pawns to boost some other school's test scores. What county are you living in?
>
> > And, the notion that a county-wide
> redistricting, even if undertaken, would result in
> "fairer" boundaries is open to question.

> >How do you think some of the current, bizarre
> boundaries, such as the current McLean "attendance
> islands," were created?<
>
> Tell us.

In the mid-1980s, as part of a county-wide study, FCPS staff proposed to redistrict Langley neighborhoods south of Route 7 to Marshall. Parents in Shouse Village and Wolf Trap Woods complained like hell that their kids shouldn't have to go to school with the riff-raff from Pimmit Hills, but that as a compromise they'd accept a reassignment to McLean. The School Board rolled over and did just what it was told.

Think it would be any different this time?


> > If you or Epstein hates Langley or its current
> boundaries, and wants to change the demographics
> at Herndon, the best shot at change would be a
> one-off redistricting that resulted after some
> type of study ostensibly undertaken to see how the
> county could save on transportation costs, not
> some master plan to force demographic parity on
> every school in the county.<
>
> Not every school- only 10 schools, which is more
> than just Langley but less than all.

See above. Not going to happen. There's a long-building reservoir of resentment towards Langley that a populist School Board might tap into. That's about it.
>
> Why would anyone be afraid of a redistricting to
> achieve demographics more closely reflecting the
> County medians at each high school?

It's not a question of fear, but instead rather it's feasible or worth the effort. Once you start this type of social engineering, you'll just keep going until the white/Asian flight is complete and you're close to 100% minority enrollment.
>
> When the redistricting in the 90s was undertaken,
> FCPS was still a majority "white" system. Its not
> anymore and probably will never be again.

Right - so why would anyone make the redistribution of the declining number of white students a priority? What's special about them anyway? Do you want pull the Asians out of TJ and spread them around as well?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: March 01, 2011 02:00PM

> boundary watcher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
(particularly
> those along Route 7 that go to Langley and live
> very near South Lakes), they somehow got an
> exception to school zoning and managed to get the
> subdivision in Langley school district. Langley
> sold better than South Lakes. I'm sure this has
> gone on in other areas, too. They were left out of
> South Lakes study.<

From the intersection of Route 7 and 193 it is aroun 11 miles to Langley H.S. From that same intersection, it is between 6 - 7 miles depending upon route to South Lakes. Neither one is 'very near' to that end of the county.

Great Falls (22066) has total of less than 20,000 residents. By comparison, the one Reston zip code where South Lakes is located (20191) has 30,000 ppl and is less than 1/3 the size of Great Falls. I'll do the math for you - that's more than quadruple the population density.

Those types of things drive attendance zones much more than developer payoffs or whatever else you think might be happening.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Yes, And? ()
Date: March 01, 2011 02:53PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the intersection of Route 7 and 193 it is
> aroun 11 miles to Langley H.S. From that same
> intersection, it is between 6 - 7 miles depending
> upon route to South Lakes. Neither one is 'very
> near' to that end of the county.
>
> Great Falls (22066) has total of less than 20,000
> residents. By comparison, the one Reston zip code
> where South Lakes is located (20191) has 30,000
> ppl and is less than 1/3 the size of Great Falls.
> I'll do the math for you - that's more than
> quadruple the population density.
>
> Those types of things drive attendance zones much
> more than developer payoffs or whatever else you
> think might be happening.

Seems like a non sequitur, unless you simply subscribe to the view that children should attend schools with others who live in housing developments of equal density.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: March 01, 2011 03:22PM

Yes, And? Wrote:
>
> Seems like a non sequitur, unless you simply
> subscribe to the view that children should attend
> schools with others who live in housing
> developments of equal density.


No - I'm suggesting that South Lakes is in an area of high population density and could fill it's classes with a more compact attendance zone, while Langley includes areas of lower population density, requiring a larger attendance zone. That's going to be the case when comparing any school with a denser population area versus a lower population density area. There is not something inherently wrong with it.

The bigger problem is that too many schools (High Schools in particular) were built in the 60's and 70's too close to each other to meet the attendance needs of that time. Now we're stuck with Langley/McLean/Marshall (I'm sure there are other examples like Woodson/Fairfax) all clustered together, and now have necessarily strange looking attendance zones.

And if you pulled out a clean sheet of paper and started over, you'd be in the same place in 20 years.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 01, 2011 03:47PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> No - I'm suggesting that South Lakes is in an area
> of high population density and could fill it's
> classes with a more compact attendance zone, while
> Langley includes areas of lower population
> density, requiring a larger attendance zone.
> That's going to be the case when comparing any
> school with a denser population area versus a
> lower population density area. There is not
> something inherently wrong with it.
>
> The bigger problem is that too many schools (High
> Schools in particular) were built in the 60's and
> 70's too close to each other to meet the
> attendance needs of that time. Now we're stuck
> with Langley/McLean/Marshall (I'm sure there are
> other examples like Woodson/Fairfax) all clustered
> together, and now have necessarily strange looking
> attendance zones.
>
> And if you pulled out a clean sheet of paper and
> started over, you'd be in the same place in 20
> years.

You have a point - Madison, Oakton, Fairfax and Woodson are all bunched together, as are Langley, McLean and Marshall.

However, this begs the question as to why FCPS built an addition that wasn't needed at Langley. By all rights, it should be one of the smaller schools in the county, but instead it has over 2000 students.

McLean has a more compact attendance area and has over 1900 students. Marshall has a larger attendance area, since it includes the heart of Tysons where there are currently few residents, and fewer students, but FCPS is now expanding the school's capacity to 1900 students in anticipation of future, dense growth in Tysons.

Langley is really the outlier in terms of FCPS having deliberately built a bigger school than was needed to serve students who could have been assigned to schools closer to their residences. As between building an addition at Langley vs. South Lakes, why wouldn't building one at South Lakes have made more sense?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: March 01, 2011 03:59PM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley is really the outlier in terms of FCPS
> having deliberately built a bigger school than was
> needed to serve students who could have been
> assigned to schools closer to their residences.
> As between building an addition at Langley vs.
> South Lakes, why wouldn't building one at South
> Lakes have made more sense?

You are stretching my memory of FCPS boundary studies - wasn't something just done in the last few years to basically push students back into South Lakes? As I recall, South Lakes was running undercapacity and ended up pulling in students from Chantilly or Centreville High Schools to get the numbers back up. I think there was a sentiment that many parents had voted with their feet and either moved out/not moved in to the South Lakes attendance zone. I don't recall the specifics - maybe IB availability?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 01, 2011 04:04PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are stretching my memory of FCPS boundary
> studies - wasn't something just done in the last
> few years to basically push students back into
> South Lakes? As I recall, South Lakes was running
> undercapacity and ended up pulling in students
> from Chantilly or Centreville High Schools to get
> the numbers back up. I think there was a
> sentiment that many parents had voted with their
> feet and either moved out/not moved in to the
> South Lakes attendance zone. I don't recall the
> specifics - maybe IB availability?

Yes, but with the expanded boundaries the South Lakes attendance area is still considerably smaller than Langley's, and FCPS is now projecting South Lakes will be above-capacity (in its current building) by 2013-14.

So I don't think that negates the argument that it might have made more sense to expand South Lakes rather than Langley, at least if there was space to do so. If IB drives more people away than it attracts, get rid of IB.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: March 01, 2011 04:25PM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, but with the expanded boundaries the South
> Lakes attendance area is still considerably
> smaller than Langley's, and FCPS is now projecting
> South Lakes will be above-capacity (in its current
> building) by 2013-14.
>
> So I don't think that negates the argument that it
> might have made more sense to expand South Lakes
> rather than Langley, at least if there was space
> to do so. If IB drives more people away than it
> attracts, get rid of IB.


I can't really argue one way or the other since I wasn't paying much attention when the Langley addition was built - not sure when that even was.

All of the maps look pretty reasonable to me (Langley, South Lakes, Herndon), but only IF the school was exactly centered in the attendance zone. That is the case with Herndon, but not with South Lakes or Langley - they are both way off center from their attendance zone. Once FCPS builds a schoool, they are stuck with the location no matter what happens with population and development. I still think that explains most of what you see with attendance zones. I think it's when you get down the individual street level that you get a chance for shenanigans with SB members and their friends.

I would also hope that they have a bias toward the status quo - that they are not ripping up attendance zones every few years and breaking up what are communities of children and parents. I think that's why you get such harsh reactions from parents on a boundary study. Many people want stability for their children, would not even think about moving and disrupting their kids network of friends, activities, etc. Now along comes some bureaucrat with a booundary change or a school closure - it's very personal. Especially if it appears to have been done without a lot of thought or people see other motives.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 01, 2011 05:29PM

facts Wrote:
> I can't really argue one way or the other since I
> wasn't paying much attention when the Langley
> addition was built - not sure when that even was.

>
> All of the maps look pretty reasonable to me
> (Langley, South Lakes, Herndon), but only IF the
> school was exactly centered in the attendance
> zone. That is the case with Herndon, but not
> with South Lakes or Langley - they are both way
> off center from their attendance zone. Once FCPS
> builds a schoool, they are stuck with the location
> no matter what happens with population and
> development. I still think that explains most of
> what you see with attendance zones. I think it's
> when you get down the individual street level that
> you get a chance for shenanigans with SB members
> and their friends.
>
> I would also hope that they have a bias toward the
> status quo - that they are not ripping up
> attendance zones every few years and breaking up
> what are communities of children and parents. I
> think that's why you get such harsh reactions from
> parents on a boundary study. Many people want
> stability for their children, would not even think
> about moving and disrupting their kids network of
> friends, activities, etc. Now along comes some
> bureaucrat with a booundary change or a school
> closure - it's very personal. Especially if it
> appears to have been done without a lot of thought
> or people see other motives.

Good points, although South Lakes HS is not located too far from the center of its current attendance area, particularly when compared to Langley:

http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/southlakeshs.pdf

http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/langleyhs.pdf

The impact of a redistricting can be mitigated by grandfathering kids who've already started to attend a particular school. And speaking from personal experience, kids are fairly good at adjusting to new situations and usually do not find a redistricting particularly traumatic. But, yeah, no one likes the idea that their own kids are being used as pawns in someone else's chess game.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 01, 2011 08:30PM

Mozart/Facts

There is so much to counter is your postngs today that I just don't have the time to rebut it all. But start by actually reading the Brown decision and then its progeny.

Schools that are identifiably minority get fewer resources than schools that are identifiably "white". If all FCPS schools look similar, not exactly the same, but close, there is less likelihood of disparate treatment.

That case law doesn't require perfect equality in all metrics and allows for some variability around a median. Thus, it would not be necessary to do a County-wide redistricting every decade. However, it's been more than 20 years since FCPS did anything like a County-wide redistricting.

Virginia, as the home of 'massive resistance," is still subject to heightened scrutiny on this score.

It was George Wallace, I think, who first used the term "social engineering" as a pejorative reference to desegregation. I'm not making an accusation but offering a cautionary note that some phrases have, possibly, unintended connotations.

Parrish Farm Lane, Brockman Lane and Kentland Drive are all 17 miles to Langley. Last I check there were Langley bus stops on all three roads. Herndon High is 6 miles; South Lakes is 8-9 miles from those bus stops.

FFX has built out pretty much as projected by COG in 1965 with the distribution just about as predicted in 1965. The locational decisions (West Springfield and Lake Braddock is another curious pair) are inexplicable based on those demographic projections. So something else was going on. I'm actively researching with some of those who were here then and are still alive to better understand how we got here.

SLHS was renovated in 2004-2008 timeframe to get rid of the open floor plan in vogue during its original construction in the late 70s. FCPS allowed SLHS's base population to fall to 1200 kids to make it easier to do the renovations during the school year. It still took 4 years. SLHS was so small at the time several AA high schools had more kids. (All Fairfax schools are AAA division). There were projections, at the time, warning that adding Fox Mill and part of Floris would push SL over 2000 kids in 5 years and here it is 2011 and its close to 2000 kids.

The Langley addition was done approximately in the 2007-09 timeframe.

The SLHS redistricting was done in 2006-2008. Fox Mill was moved from Oakton to SL. Part of Floris was moved from Westfield to SL.

The Luther Jackson auditorium was filled and had overflow the night they voted on the SL redistricting. The recent vote on the 23 elementary schools didn't fill one section.

Because NCLB requires disaggregation of test results by demographic groups, several programs, like IB, introduced by FCPS in the 90s to majority/minority schools to reduce "white flight" and prop up school-wide scores don't work anymore. (One of the few good things about NCLB).

Kathy Smith moved the Chantilly kids to Oakton as part of the South Lakes redistricting, not Phil. That was the first of her many crying jags during her service on the School Board.

FFX is much closer to ultimate build-out now than in the 60s & 70s. The County's population has doubled since the 70s. Multi-family high rise (which is most of what's left to build) have extraordinarily low numbers of high school kids. A County-wide high school redistricting now could last for 30-40 years.

TJ is a governor's/exam school and it's disparity from the rest of FCPS is a subject of on-going negotiations between FCPS, the NAACP and others.

The "populist resentment" is almost as strong toward Oakton and Woodson as toward Langley, not as strong, but it's definitely palpable.

The six "white" schools are Langley, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, McLean, Robinson, West Springfield. Some might throw in Chantilly.

The three schools are hispanic: Annandale, Stuart and Falls Church.

One is African American: Mount Vernon.

The boundary adjustment necessary to fix these disparities are not overwhelming. Not easy but hardly insurmountable and need to get done before there is a NAACP/La Raza lawsuit.

I think Louise understands this far better than Janie who has already forgotten that Herndon was part of the study area for the SL redisticting.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 01, 2011 08:51PM

Thomas - Perhaps some time you'll assemble a coherent argument for others to consider. Your latest posting, however, was just an assortment of assertions and factoids of questionable accuracy (i.e., go back and listen to the 2008 School Board meeting tapes if you think Phil wasn't supporting the Chantilly-to-Oakton movement). And your selective overarching characterization of selected schools as "White," "Hispanic" and "African-American" is not only bizarre, but offensive.

Suggesting that Louise Epstein shares your unusual perspective is, perhaps, not the type of endorsement she is likely going out of her way to seek at the moment. If that's what she does believe, however, her candidacy will likely go down in flames in short order.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Gerry Mandering ()
Date: March 01, 2011 09:02PM

> How about Langley looking like something within
> shouting distance of the County averages:
>
> County average 45% white - Langley 73%
>



Langley will not be a majority white school much longer. As in the case of Jefferson, Asian students will be the majority there within 10 years.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 01, 2011 10:34PM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas - Perhaps some time you'll assemble coherent argument for others to consider. Your latest posting, however, was just an assortment of assertions<

I was replyiing to your, and factoids, multiple postings. If there is incoherence, it is the product of your several postings, not my argument.

> if you think Phil wasn't supporting the Chantilly-to-Oakton movement<

Are you denying that Kathy's was the deciding vote?

Naturally, at least 7 SB members had to vote for that amendment to the staff recommendation for it to pass. Did Phil vote for it? Maybe. But without Kathy's support the amendment goes no where.

> And your selective overarching characterization of selected schools as "White," "Hispanic" and "African-American" is not only bizarre, but offensive.<

How is observing a documented fact offensive?

I guess it might be to someone who wants to ignore a situation that doesn't comport to their ideology.

By the way, the characterization was proffered by others not me, though I agree that the facts make those characterizations inescapable.

> Suggesting that Louise Epstein shares your unusual perspective is, perhaps, not the type of endorsement she is likely going out of her way to seek at the moment. If that's what she does believe, however, her candidacy will likely go down in flames in short order.<

The unusual perspective is yours and is shared by about 10-15% of the populous.

We now know who you are Mozart, not your real name, but your real perspective.

I won't waste any more of either of our time because it's clear you mind's made up and you're not interested in a dialogue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 11:23PM by Thomas More.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 01, 2011 10:41PM

Gerry Mandering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > How about Langley looking like something within shouting distance of the County averages:

County average 45% white - Langley 73% < <

> Langley will not be a majority white school much longer. As in the case of Jefferson, Asian students will be the majority there within 10 years.<

TJ is an exam school. Langley isn't.

Are you predicting an influx of 500+ East Asian-Americans high school kids into the current Langley attendance area over the next 10 years?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: maryland plates? ()
Date: March 02, 2011 08:04AM

Thomas More plus all:
do you have or know of a list of projects that were not necessary, costs [bond, interest, new school operating costs] , impact on taxes? Anything that could have been avoided via changes in attendance areas?

I was on the FCPS facilities capacity dashboard. I can't find division totals on that thing or in the CIP or in the CIP back-up data. Do totals exist anywhere in excel or even pdf?

For anyone interested the CIP had a valuable piece of information years ago. Capacity totals for all contiguous schools. That didn't last long since it showed huge numbers open for South Lakes, Mount Vernon, etc.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: document reader ()
Date: March 02, 2011 08:28AM

I agree with Md plates: it's hard to find capacity information until they pull it out for boundary studies. I'd be willing to bet that the current capacities are different from those in the old CIP's. They'll just say that the standards have changed. Just like they manipulate population projections.

Something is very wrong--we all know that. A lot of it comes out of Facilities--SLEEP found problems with busing; boundary studies find cost projections to be incorrect, etc.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/southwesternstudy/faq.pdf
my favorite quote in response to a question about whether Facilities got second opinions, etc:
The School Board and its professional construction staff manage
a $1.8 billion capital improvement program for FCPS facilities and are more than qualified to
assess the costs and benefits of these decisions

This is especially arrogant when you consider that FCPS facilities had 4 pages of corrections to a 7 page paper presented at the FEB 24 meeting.

Also, to MD plates and your question about taxes: I would be much more concerned to know if anyone has done a true audit of facilities--who, what, when, where and how. A 1.6B capital budget is not a good thing to have in the hands ofclowns.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/8DXKJZ522C2B/$file/SB%20follow-up%20%2311-46%20-%20Southwest%20Boundary%20Study.pdf

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/8ECSX474C1C6/$file/SB%20Follow-up%20-%20no.%2011-47%20%20Southwestern%20Boundary%20Study%20-%20CORRECTED.pdf

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: March 02, 2011 11:29AM

Thomas - As best I can tell, the main (and perhaps only) thing you'd like a School Board candidate to do is announce his or her support for a county-wide redistricting that would more closely align the percentages of Whites, Blacks, Asians and Hispanics at each high school, with certain narrow deviations from the county average (as of 2011) tolerated.

Perhaps you don't favor that, or you favor other things as well. If so, I can't tell, because you don't clearly articulate what you support. Instead, you get side-tracked on factual diversions, such as whether a particular school board member who is no longer in office previously championed or simply supported one aspect of a prior redistricting. Moreover, you trot out random phrases from civil rights and busing cases from the 1950s forward to support the assertion - which, frankly, I think is absurd - that a state or federal court in Virginia presented with the issue today would order the redistricting of FCPS (so the School Board might as well do so voluntarily to ward off an inevitable court-ordered remedy).

I don't support that at all, as I think it would turn out be a highly disruptive and ultimately fruitless exercise. In case you haven't noticed, the demographics of Fairfax County have changed dramatically over the past 20 years and continue to evolve today. The notion that schools should be engineered - a phrase I will freely use - to achieve a uniform racial balance across all public schools is certainly not held by a majority of the county's residents, who generally are smart enough to recognize that the county's population base is not fixed, but instead constantly in flux, and that the idea of a racial "true-up" would likely be a disruptive waste of time.

Conversely, in appropriate circumstances, I think residents might support redistrictings that achieve other policy goals, such as the efficient use of facilities, the reduction of transportation costs, or the alignment of school pyramids, where possible, to eliminate split feeders. But the notion that all FCPS high schools should be roughly 50-55% white because that's the current statistic is, well, so 1975 as to be laughable.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 02:35PM by Mozart.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: no boundary study ()
Date: March 02, 2011 12:21PM

I agree that we do not need another boundary study. I never think that they should be done just for demographics. When it is necessary to do a study, demographics should be considered--but not to the point that you do a wholesale shift of students for the sole purpose of achieving parity in demos.

I do think the Langley boundary is egregious, but I do believe the demos there will change in the future. It's not worth another shift.

Looking at the boundary maps, if you do a wholesale shift from East to West, it will get to be a mess at some point. Herndon is logical right now, it has the "right" demographics for FCPS and it is centralized for its attendance area. If you shift West, you then have to take some of those that go to Herndon now and send them to Westfield along with the students you just sent to South Lakes, and on and on and on. It just won't work.

I taught back in the '70's in a bussed school. The problem is that when you bus students in you lose the family connection to a school. Transportation becomes an issue and so does the comfort level of the parents in an unfamiliar community. This is why closing Graham Road was as much of a travesty as Clifton. It was a minority school that was successful--mainly because it was in the community and the parents felt included in the community. Do you really think the school and students will get the same support in a school that is not in walking distance?

The problem is not demographics. The problem is using statistics to cover up poor performance. My educational philosophy is simple: "take every student where they are and take them as far as you can. Expect results."

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: facts ()
Date: March 02, 2011 12:58PM

Thomas More Wrote:
> Are you predicting an influx of 500+ East
> Asian-Americans high school kids into the current
> Langley attendance area over the next 10 years?


Well, I live in the Langley attendance zone, and I can tell you that entire streets have sold out to Asian families in the past few years. That's going to start showing up in the school populations soon enough.

I don't think that should mean anything, but since Thomas is so hell-bent on demographic re-distribution, I thought that might make him feel better.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 02, 2011 06:44PM

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas - As best I can tell, the main (and perhaps only) thing you'd like a School Board candidate to do is announce his or her support for a county-wide redistricting that would more closely align the percentages of Whites, Blacks, Asians and Hispanics at each high school, with certain narrow deviations from the county average (as of 2011) tolerated.<

You left out F/RL and LEP as a metric to adjust for.

> Instead, you get side-tracked on factual diversions, such as whether a particular school board member who is no longer in office previously championed or simply supported one aspect of a prior redistricting.<

Actually,it's you and factoid who get side tracked.

> Moreover, you trot out random phrases from civil rights and busing cases from the 1950s forward to support the assertion - which, frankly, I think is absurd.<

Big surprise, you want to dismiss 50 years of established Constitutional Law that is still in full force and effect. Given your ideologically induced blindness to the obvious, I expected nothing else.

> - that a state or federal court in Virginia presented with the issue today would order the redistricting of FCPS (so the School Board might as well do so voluntarily to ward off an inevitable court-ordered remedy).<

Wishing won't make it true. Try actually reading a case decision or a couple of dozen.

> I don't support that at all, as I think it would turn out be a highly disruptive and ultimately fruitless exercise.<

> In case you haven't noticed, the demographics of Fairfax County have changed dramatically over the past 20 years and continue to evolve today.<

Some places have, but Langley has always been almost lily white and all rich.

> The notion that schools should be engineered - a phrase I will freely use -

Then, you are knowingly associating your self with the positions, attitudes and ideology of the coiner of the phrase. Again, not surprised.

> to achieve a uniform racial balance across all public schools is certainly not held by a majority of the county's residents, who generally are smart enough to recognize that the county's population base is not fixed, but instead constantly in flux, and that the idea of a racial "true-up" would likely be a disruptive waste of time.<

Luckily for all of us Constitutional rights are not subject to majority rule. If they were, Brown would never have been decided as it was.

But you sell your fellow Fairfax County citizens short: for in every forum where the demographic summary of the FCPS high schools has been distributed, there has been an audible gasp of shock and surprise.

Your fellow citizens know a wrong when they see it. Too bad you don't.

> But the notion that all FCPS high schools should be roughly 50-55% white because that's the current statistic is, well, so 1975 as to be laughable.<

W.T. Woodson and Harry F. Byrd said the same thing and they were just as wrong.

We know the stripes you wear. Don't waste anymore of our time or Cary's server space, spewing you thoughts.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 02, 2011 06:52PM

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, I live in the Langley attendance zone, and I can tell you that entire streets have sold out to Asian families in the past few years. That's going to start showing up in the school populations soon enough.<

Langley's Asian population is close to the County median already.

To correct the imbalance at Langley by attrition would mean 600 white high school kids would have to move out of the attendance area and be replaced with an equal number of hispanic and black kids.

Does your crystal ball see that happening in our life time?

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 02, 2011 07:16PM

no boundary study Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I do think the Langley boundary is egregious, but I do believe the demos there will change in the future.<

So you see 600 white kids moving out of the Langley attendance area and being replaced by an equal number of black and hispanics through natural attrition?

> It's not worth another shift.<

why?

> Looking at the boundary maps, if you do a wholesale shift from East to West, it will get to be a mess at some point. Herndon is logical right now, it has the "right" demographics for FCPS and it is centralized for its attendance area. If you shift West, you then have to take some of those that go to Herndon now and send them to Westfield along with the students you just sent to South Lakes, and on and on and on. It just won't work.<

Let us review the map. Herndon's western boundary is the Loudoun County line. There is no more west.

Herndon High is on the northern edge of it's attendance area which reaches to McNair and Coates(?).

Extend Herndon's attendance area north where it was in the 80s when it included Forestville and Great Falls, then the school is in the middle of its attendance area.

Most Floris parents would be happy back at Westfields.

> I taught back in the '70's in a bussed school. The problem is that when you bus students in you lose the family connection to a school.

We're discussing shifting compact attendance areas not busing. FFX taxpayers are paying for FCPS to bus kids 17 miles now to keep Langley lily white and all rich. That's ok with you?

It ain't the bus; its the destination.

If it weren't, Laurel Hill (fka Lorton) kids would be taking an 8 mile ride to Mount Vernon or Hayfield and the money diverted to South County High and Middle Schools could have been used to renovate West Springfield.

> Do you really think the school and students will get the same support in a school that is not in walking distance?<

First, we only talking middle and high schools. Second, whose walking 17 miles from Forestville to Langley?

> The problem is not demographics.<

Yes it is. So says the Constitutional case law of this country since 1954.

> The problem is using statistics to cover up poor performance.<

Agreed. One of the few good aspects of NCLB is that it forces localities to disaggregate achievement by demographic subgroups so that Dale can't use IB, GT centers and other tricks to cover up FCPS's ongoing failure to enable minorities to achieve at levels attained by poorer school divisions in Virginia with larger minority populations. That should be an indictable offense.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: March 02, 2011 07:52PM

document reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Md plates: it's hard to find capacity
> information until they pull it out for boundary
> studies. I'd be willing to bet that the current
> capacities are different from those in the old
> CIP's. They'll just say that the standards have
> changed. Just like they manipulate population
> projections.
>

Couple things here -

1) The way FCPS does capacity, "Capacity" depends on the programs at the schools. So, when programs change (e.g. full day kindergarten) the capacity changes without changing the structure. Makes some sense, but also makes for a lot of grounds for manipulation of the results, see 2) for sample manipulations...

2) Within months of the SL redistricting, Facilities completed a capacity study of the all the HSes using a new formula. Guess what the results were - South Lakes miraculously increased in capacity by about 200 kids from the numbers used during the redistricting and Westfield dropped from the 3100 that was used during redistricting and that the taxpayers of Fairfax were promised when Westfield was expanded to the current official capacity of 2,795. Result, instead of an increase of 600, the taxpayers got 297. Also, conveniently, since Westfield is over the now official capacity, it's closed for AP outplacement so Floris kids can't escape IB at South Lakes with their Floris friends across the street.

Note, again, the new formula does make some sense - adding classrooms doesn't expand hallways, cafeterias, etc, but that just means Facilities had been fleecing the taxpayers for years - getting the taxpayers to agree to bond issues that added classrooms to existing buildings that didn't actually add the promised capacity.

Note, also, the now fake capacity increase at Westfield killed planning for a "small" high school at the Rachel Carson site which would have alleviated the incredible split feeder mess at Franklin and Carson (made worse by the SL redistricting) and partially addressed the elongated east/west HS districts discussed elsewhere in this topic.

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: March 02, 2011 08:43PM

document reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I would add another question to your list -

Does FCPS actually follow their own "Policies" when it comes to school capacity?

Came up during the SL redistricting. One of the myriad/shifting rationales for including Westfield in the redistricting (since by the time the study actually kicked off Westfield was under the then official capacity of the building so it wasn't exactly clear to the unwashed masses why Westfield should be included any more...) was that Westfield was larger than the 2000 student policy for new schools that the SB had conveniently just dusted off and reaffirmed.

So... Westfield's official capacity was 3100. Westfield had been built at 2500. So, what was this 2000 student capacity for new schools that had been "reaffirmed"? Well, of course it was for "new" schools, so it wasn't exactly clear how it applied to Westfield during redistricting, but ...

Anyway, when the board "reaffirmed" the policy, what they actually did was weaken it. The wording before "reaffirmation" - the wording in effect when Westfield and South County were constructed at 2500, the wording since the 1980s so presumably someone in Facilities might have known it existed - unequivocally stated that new HSes "SHALL" have a capacity no larger than 2000. Well, we all live in DC, so we all know what "SHALL" means... So, the new wording states "shall" except for extenuating circumstances, but how did the criminals get away with the 2500 in the first place...

Does this have any real-world effect? Well, one of the effects of the 2500 then 3100, now 2987, is it killed off the HS at Carson, resulting in the split feeders at Carson and Franklin and elongated east/west districts. Also, not that I do, but various people over time have blamed Westfield's size for the VT massacre. On the upside, we got a couple Div 6 football championships out of it...

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Re: Epstein v. Strauss - Dranesville School Board
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: March 02, 2011 09:03PM

no boundary study Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I do think the Langley boundary is egregious, but
> I do believe the demos there will change in the
> future. It's not worth another shift.

The Langley demos (if you mean to lower SES/ESOL) will never shift without redistricting. The reason is sewers, water, road infrastructure, and built out land. Without sewers/water/high capacity roads, Great Falls has been built out at about 1 dwelling/2 acres because they are on wells/septic tanks throughout most of the district. Without sewers/water/high capacity road network, it's far too expensive to add high density development that tends towards lower SES/higher ESOL rates.


>
> Looking at the boundary maps, if you do a
> wholesale shift from East to West, it will get to
> be a mess at some point. Herndon is logical right
> now, it has the "right" demographics for FCPS and
> it is centralized for its attendance area. If you
> shift West, you then have to take some of those
> that go to Herndon now and send them to Westfield
> along with the students you just sent to South
> Lakes, and on and on and on. It just won't work.
>
> I taught back in the '70's in a bussed school.
> The problem is that when you bus students in you
> lose the family connection to a school.
> Transportation becomes an issue and so does the
> comfort level of the parents in an unfamiliar
> community. This is why closing Graham Road was as
> much of a travesty as Clifton. It was a minority
> school that was successful--mainly because it was
> in the community and the parents felt included in
> the community.

Community is also why split feeders are a travesty, but the cretins redistrict the three levels independently. And, just for good measure, the GT pyramids don't follow the HS pyramids.

> The problem is not demographics. The problem is
> using statistics to cover up poor performance. My
> educational philosophy is simple: "take every
> student where they are and take them as far as you
> can. Expect results."

Very true.

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