From Page 38 of the school budget:

"....the VRS employee contribution of 5.0 percent (unchanged from FY 2011), which is also paid by FCPS, results in a total FCPS contribution to VRS of 10.16 percent in FY 2012, compared to 8.93 percent in FY 2011."

FCPS pays both the employER and employEE contribution for retirement - the teachers pay 0. FCPS employees get a total of 10% of the salary paid to the VRS. How long has this deal been going on?

You try and teach. It is not an easy job. Our lower pay should come with some good benefits.

I work as English teacher. This means I teach English. This is language. At FCPS, this means Fairfax Schools. English is important. Job is nice. Teach students is nice. Some students not behave nice. They why pension is why it is the way.

Good for them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You try and teach. It is not an easy job. Our
> lower pay should come with some good benefits.


Extrapolate your salary to 12 months and it doesn't look so bad. There aren't many jobs that get a summer vacation.

summer vacation
plus spring break
plus winter break
These are perks that most businesses do not give
plus sick leave and personal leave, retirement and health care

Teaching contracts are for about 180 work days. There is no vacation time included. Teachers give up gross pay for benefits in negotiations all the time. County governments like this because it costs the government less to provide the benefits than it would cost them to pay employees in salary who would then have to buy the benefits themselves. That's how it works.

The OP is a troll who was upset that the original teacher pay threads continued to slip to the bottom so he started a new thread to stir up the shit. Probably caught the news and saw what's going on in Wisconsin so he's trying to transfer the issue to FFXU.

In answer to your question troll, FCPS teachers end up with good benefit packages because private sector workers with similar levels of education tend to make more over their careers in total salary. Public sector workers generally end up with better benefits/pensions as a trade off to lower salaries. Again, speaking in generalizations here, not specifics.

Although I will throw one specific out. Think about the private sector jobs in this area. Then think about how much one of these private sector workers would receive in salary if they had over 20 years of experience in the field as well as a doctorate degree. An FCPS teacher with those credentials maxes out at only a little over 92K.

Is it even true that teachers do not pay anything into the retirement system?

I don't know if the do or not, but bus drivers/custodians/food workers damned sure do. About $200 a month comes out of my check and goes to Fairfax County Employee's Retirement System. (only teachers are covered by VRS).

The pisser is it's mandatory that we contribute to our retirement. I don't expect to ever be able to retire and I could sure use that $200 a month. I'd drop out of the retirement system tomorrow if I could.

http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/documents/proposed/2012/ProposedBudget12.pdf

go to page 48

The benefits are listed in proposed 2012 budget.

Teachers pay nothing into VA retirement. FCPS pays 5%. Teachers do pay a little over 4% into FCPS retirement--as does the school system.
FCPS also pays about three times the charge to the employee for health insurance. Employees and retirees also get free life insurance.

Translates to close to $20,000 in benefits. This is for a 194 day teaching contract. That's 39 weeks. Thirteen weeks of vacation.

that would be 13 weeks of unpaid vacation.

If you think being a teacher is so great get you Master's and come join us.

Otherwise STFU!

The question about pay would end if there is year around school, but the county can't afford that. They had it for some Title 1 schools, but it got too expensive. I am sure parents would not like that idea taking precious summer time away.

English class nice. Teach fifty pupils. This means students. Yet why pay retirement? Retirement should pay for us. Teachers teach. Students study. They learn. Then we have right to earn.

You should learn English before you teach it

GEjjk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You should learn English before you teach it


And you should learn respect. This means polite. Put arms out. Ruler on your arms go. You need to obey teacher. This means instructor. You are rude. This means not polite. You must be grade F English student

It's true of Virginia government employees. For a time, they had to chip in a small amount to the pension system. When the economy turned up, they got the free ride again.

Free ride? This is without money. Les English teachers don't make money. I mean lots of it. We are paid in pennies. This means copper. Baseball players make more. Football players make more. Movie theater ushers make more. The guy cleaning balls at golf range makes more. English class important. This means necessary. No free ride. This cost money. This means cash.

The pension system needs reform. Employees should have to contribute half of the annual payment into the pension plan. I think the abuse is at the upper end of the pay scale in administration. Limit the pay level that's subject to the pension plan. If you make above that limit, such as 50K, the rest should be your responsibility. This would eliminate the pension padding abuse.

Les Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pension system needs reform. Employees should
> have to contribute half of the annual payment into
> the pension plan. I think the abuse is at the
> upper end of the pay scale in administration.
> Limit the pay level that's subject to the pension
> plan. If you make above that limit, such as 50K,
> the rest should be your responsibility. This
> would eliminate the pension padding abuse.

Les lets focus on issue. This means pension. Perhaps I make suggestion. This to help you. Other teacher at school teaches psychology. He is not psychologist. This is person who studies brain. He can help you. As English teacher my job not qualified for this.

The abuse could be in higher positions. This means administrators. Teachers who teach English are not administrators! We are valuable to schools. This means no contribution needed.

Yazmir Ya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Free ride? This is without money. Les English
> teachers don't make money. I mean lots of it. We
> are paid in pennies. This means copper. Baseball
> players make more. Football players make more.
> Movie theater ushers make more. The guy cleaning
> balls at golf range makes more. English class
> important. This means necessary. No free ride.
> This cost money. This means cash.


Teachers don't make anyone money so they aren't going to be compensated highly. A NFL quarterback that makes $15m a year probably earns his team that much 3 times over. Find a way to make someone money by teaching long division and you can reap the benefits, until then accept the fact that you took a job knowing that the compensation wasn't very high and probably never will be.

804 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yazmir Ya Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Free ride? This is without money. Les English
> > teachers don't make money. I mean lots of it.
> We
> > are paid in pennies. This means copper.
> Baseball
> > players make more. Football players make more.
> > Movie theater ushers make more. The guy
> cleaning
> > balls at golf range makes more. English class
> > important. This means necessary. No free ride.
> > This cost money. This means cash.
>
>
> Teachers don't make anyone money so they aren't
> going to be compensated highly. A NFL quarterback
> that makes $15m a year probably earns his team
> that much 3 times over. Find a way to make
> someone money by teaching long division and you
> can reap the benefits, until then accept the fact
> that you took a job knowing that the compensation
> wasn't very high and probably never will be.


This not possible. Qb's dime a dozen. This means many of them. Combine high schools. Combine colleges. Combine penal colonies. Many quarterbacks. Teachers rare. English teachers not easy to find. Long division is for math teachers. English teachers teach English. You are F student as well. Shame.

reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that would be 13 weeks of unpaid vacation.

But then you cannot have it both ways. You get a yearly salary of lets say $50,000. Then that is in fact a yearly salary whether you include the 13 weeks, various federal holidays, snow days or not makes no difference, it is a years salary. Correct me if I am wrong or my information is dated but cant teachers choose to have that salary averaged over the full year so they still receive checks in the summer months? Also having 13 weeks off gives one the opportunity to pull down more money tutoring or some other job.

It is unheard of in the private sector to contribute zero to a retirement or health care plan. Now you are lucky if an employer even gives 401k matching funds.
I would think given that teachers have a four year degree they are smart enough to check into a teachers salary range before they apply. If it is money or glory you seek go elsewhere.

Would I want to be a teacher? Nope. But then you choose the field the field did not choose you.

Gummy Joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is unheard of in the private sector to
> contribute zero to a retirement or health care
> plan. Now you are lucky if an employer even gives
> 401k matching funds.


Public employees tend to have more of their health and retirement plans paid for by their employer because public employees tend to be paid less than their private counterparts when education level is taken into account.

Generally, private sector employees tend to see better compensation in their paychecks while public sector employees see better compensation in health/dental and retirement.

On a side note, why are any of you respondin to Yaz? It's obvious the guy is a troll and not a teacher ... heck, it's probably 2 or 3 seperate trolls.

Gummy Joe is laboring under the false assumption that the FCPS owns you 24/7. They don't. They just offer you work approximately 180 days (depending on your contract) of the year. You're paid per day of work. If they don't have work for you over the summer you're not paid for it. You're not paid for weekends and you're not paid for breaks. Just for the days you work.

The private sector pay difference, in no way, equal to the retirement plans and benefits of public employees. FC gov workers can retire at 50-full salary.

Let's face it, government workers get free rides into retirement. Many get their FULL SALARY when they retire.

Years ago private sector employees might of had such a deal, but not in today's competitive private sector. Hell, a lot of companies don't contribute anything to retirement plans.

WTF?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The private sector pay difference, in no way,
> equal to the retirement plans and benefits of
> public employees. FC gov workers can retire at
> 50-full salary.
>
> Let's face it, government workers get free rides
> into retirement. Many get their FULL SALARY when
> they retire.
>
> Years ago private sector employees might of had
> such a deal, but not in today's competitive
> private sector. Hell, a lot of companies don't
> contribute anything to retirement plans.


You're full of shit too.

My pension is about half what I made working. I pay the entire health insurance premium, minus an allowance based on how long I worked. I get the max allowance, which is $132 a month. My health insurance is about $1000 a month, less $132...$868 a month comes out of my pension. I net less than a grand a month.

Each year the insurance premium goes up and eats up more of my pension. I fully expect that one day, my health insurance premium will be more than my pension and I'll have to write the fuckers a check every month for the difference.

That's the truth, regardless of the bullshit Rush Limbaugh is feeding you.

FC retiree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTF?? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The private sector pay difference, in no way,
> > equal to the retirement plans and benefits of
> > public employees. FC gov workers can retire at
> > 50-full salary.
> >
> > Let's face it, government workers get free
> rides
> > into retirement. Many get their FULL SALARY
> when
> > they retire.
> >
> > Years ago private sector employees might of had
> > such a deal, but not in today's competitive
> > private sector. Hell, a lot of companies
> don't
> > contribute anything to retirement plans.
>
>
> You're full of shit too.
>
> My pension is about half what I made working. I
> pay the entire health insurance premium, minus an
> allowance based on how long I worked. I get the
> max allowance, which is $132 a month. My health
> insurance is about $1000 a month, less $132...$868
> a month comes out of my pension. I net less than
> a grand a month.
>
> Each year the insurance premium goes up and eats
> up more of my pension. I fully expect that one
> day, my health insurance premium will be more than
> my pension and I'll have to write the fuckers a
> check every month for the difference.
>
> That's the truth, regardless of the bullshit Rush
> Limbaugh is feeding you.

How long, in years, did you work for Fairfax County?

FC retiree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTF?? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Each year the insurance premium goes up and eats
> up more of my pension. I fully expect that one
> day, my health insurance premium will be more than
> my pension and I'll have to write the fuckers a
> check every month for the difference.
>
> That's the truth, regardless of the bullshit Rush
> Limbaugh is feeding you.


All of which means you are less than 64 yrs of ago, fully retired, when the rest of world is still out there working. You are sitting on your dead ass, enjoy government welfare. And when you hit 64, all those payments will disappear so you can suck off another government program.

So what if they don't pay anything into their retirement? My wife and I work in the private sector, and the company "gives" us a percentage of our salary (~10%) for our 401k, and anything we add above that we add ourselves is matched up to some limit. And if they didn't, they'd have to pay us more up front.

Similarly, either the teachers are given 10% (or whatever it is) into the retirement fund, or you can have the state pay them 10% more. Six of one, half dozen of another.

Don't be such a whiney baby. Personally, you couldn't pay me to be a teacher, as it seems like a shitty job that pays little. I'd rather be a FFX firefighter, which, frankly, seems to be a whole lot easier job for a lot more pay (and you don't have to waste money on a college education).

Good for them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You try and teach. It is not an easy job. Our
> lower pay should come with some good benefits.

FUCK YOU.

corrupt bargain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Page 38 of the school budget:
>
> "....the VRS employee contribution of 5.0 percent
> (unchanged from FY 2011), which is also paid by
> FCPS, results in a total FCPS contribution to VRS
> of 10.16 percent in FY 2012, compared to 8.93
> percent in FY 2011."
>
> FCPS pays both the employER and employEE
> contribution for retirement - the teachers pay 0.
> FCPS employees get a total of 10% of the salary
> paid to the VRS. How long has this deal been
> going on?


What are you talking about? Teachers used to pay for state and county retirement, and they still pay for county (As well as life insurance, and so forth).

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you think being a teacher is so great get you
> Master's and come join us.
>
> Otherwise STFU!

Care to back up how many Masters with facts? People with Masters that are TEACHING, not admin

Not True Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Enough! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you think being a teacher is so great get
> you
> > Master's and come join us.
> >
> > Otherwise STFU!
>
> Care to back up how many Masters with facts?
> People with Masters that are TEACHING, not admin


72% hold an advanced degree. https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/report.do?division=29&schoolName=All
Page 28

Of course, Tuition Reimbursement was not funded this year, so you can be asssured that the % will decline rapidly now that the ever generous taxpayers of Fairfax are no longer footing the bill.

>
> Of course, Tuition Reimbursement was not funded
> this year, so you can be asssured that the % will
> decline rapidly now that the ever generous
> taxpayers of Fairfax are no longer footing the
> bill.


I am not sure if the above is true-but what is the deal with The Univ of Wisconsin?

I saw some HUGE payments to this university from FCPS.

Do they offer some sort of BS degree online for teachers or something?

btw BS does not stand for Bachelor's of Science.

Just want to know where my tax money is going...

Univ of Wisconsin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Of course, Tuition Reimbursement was not funded
> > this year, so you can be asssured that the %
> will
> > decline rapidly now that the ever generous
> > taxpayers of Fairfax are no longer footing the
> > bill.
>
>
> I am not sure if the above is true-but what is the
> deal with The Univ of Wisconsin?
>
> I saw some HUGE payments to this university from
> FCPS.
>
> Do they offer some sort of BS degree online for
> teachers or something?
>
> btw BS does not stand for Bachelor's of Science.
>
> Just want to know where my tax money is going...

http://www.fcps.edu/plt/treimbursement.htm

I'm sure the payments to GMU are equally huge - they pretend to teach the teachers, and the teachers pretend to learn, and FCPS gets to say they have 72% with advanced degrees. I'm sure its all bogus. Now that FCPS is no longer footing the bill, the % with masters degrees will drop.

I am yet to see a study that says that teaches with a masters are better teachers-waste of money in my opinion.

Payments to Univ of Wisconsin were $877,734 in FY 2010.

George Mason got only $327,433.

Something fishy aboyt Wisconsin.....

Another bs expense-$40,846 to VA School Boards Assoc. What the crap is that? Do we have to belong to that?

more waste Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am yet to see a study that says that teaches
> with a masters are better teachers-waste of money
> in my opinion.

I 'HAVE' YET.... 'TEACHERS' NOT 'TEACHES'

Perhaps you should have spent an extra 4 years in grade school and skipped the college.



>
> Payments to Univ of Wisconsin were $877,734 in FY
> 2010.
>
> George Mason got only $327,433.
>
> Something fishy aboyt Wisconsin.....
>
> Another bs expense-$40,846 to VA School Boards
> Assoc. What the crap is that? Do we have to belong
> to that?

corrupt bargain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How long has this deal been
> going on?

Since 1983. If you want to join in become a teacher.

I am yet to see a study that says that teaches with a masters are better teachers-waste of money in my opinion.

Payments to Univ of Wisconsin were $877,734 in FY 2010.

George Mason got only $327,433.

Something fishy aboyt Wisconsin.....

Another bs expense-$40,846 to VA School Boards Assoc. What the crap is that? Do we have to belong to that?






This might have something to do with the fact that our county is using a University of Wisconsin product to test our ESOL students. This is a federally mandated test (NCLB) and the University of Wisconsin developed it. There are something like 35 states using the test and it is copyrighted by the University of Wisconsin Regents. The test is called the WIDA. It is accepted as a valid assessment by the US Department of Education.

Teachers make difference. We teach future. This means children. English classes needed. Teach English for fifteen years. This not easy subject. Students misbehave. This means act innapropreiatly. English class teachers needed. We deserve pension for free.

If you don't like the children and you can do better in the private sector. I would preffer you do just that , By the way, "stfu"? Is that the way you talk to the kids? Nice.

./



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 03:15PM by mnfenton.

> Of course, Tuition Reimbursement was not funded
> this year, so you can be asssured that the % will
> decline rapidly now that the ever generous
> taxpayers of Fairfax are no longer footing the
> bill.

Think about how most companies operate. A good majority of them reimburse for tuition, some at 100%. FCPS paid about 1/3 of one class, regardless of how many you took. A good majority also contribute to retirement for their employees, either as a flat contribution, or in the form of prorated matching depending on the employees contribution, or both. A good majority also contribute to medical/dental premiums. Everything FCPS does is comparable to what just about every other company offers as benefits.

The only difference between us and everyone else is that FCPS is our company. What's wrong with getting benefits similar to everyone else just because my company is funded directly by tax dollars? If you think about it, so is everyone else, just indirectly.

For example, before working as a teacher I worked for Northrop Grumman as a contractor. The federal govt gets tax money from you (and me). The federal govt paid my company to do some analysis. From that bucket of money I earned my salary. No one seemed to complain about that. From that bucket, NG earned profit, from which they paid to reimburse for tuition at 100%. No one seemed to complain about that either. The difference is that it looked like it was NG paying instead of the federal govt, but in actuality, it all started out as your tax dollars.

Does anyone complain that police and firefighters get medical benefits, pensions and vacation time? Does anyone complain that judges and prosecutors get medical benefits, pensions and vacation time? Why do you only complain about us teachers?

And as for us only working 9 months, you should learn to read the FCPS calendar. We start the last week in August (even though the students don't start until September) and we go until the last week in June (even though your students end the third week of June). That about 8 weeks of summer when we're not "in" school. Sure you say we get vacations throughout the year, but don't you? My husband takes off the same vacations I have throughout the year. The only difference is he does not get off 8 weeks in the summer. He does get 3 though. His company gives him 5 weeks of paid vacation. At my last company I was up to 6 weeks of paid leave. He gets 52 weeks of paid salary. I only get about 43 for a 10 month contract.

And by the way, during the school year I'm at "work" by 6, don't leave until 4 and work about 3 more hours after I get home. And I spend my "8 weeks" of summer vacation doing curriculum work since I teach different courses each year and have to do all my new curriculum work and planning before I report back in August. I'm sure many other people bring work home too, but no one here is saying you earn too much money or work too few hours on this site, are they?

And that's not including the second job I have to compensate for the fact that I've had the same salary for the past 3 school years (pay freezes for the last two means my salary is the same as it was 3 fiscal years ago).

I knew what I was getting into when I switched jobs. I knew I would be taking a pay cut. I also knew the benefits my "company" was offering and felt it was fair which is why I accepted the job.

I AM amazed how many people out there think teachers don't deserve benefits when they themselves are getting comparable ones at from their non-FCPS employers.

radargirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The only difference between us and everyone else
> is that FCPS is our company. What's wrong with
> getting benefits similar to everyone else just
> because my company is funded directly by tax
> dollars? If you think about it, so is everyone
> else, just indirectly.
>
> For example, before working as a teacher I worked
> for Northrop Grumman as a contractor. The federal
> govt gets tax money from you (and me). The
> federal govt paid my company to do some analysis.
> From that bucket of money I earned my salary.

The fact that you cannot conceive that MOST of the economy is private sector - companies and consumers - tells me everything I need to know. Most taxpayers do not work for the government or government contractors. There's a whole world of manufacturers, service companies, etc. that aren't on the government dole. You are just ignorant of it.

And the BS about the 60 hour weeks - spare me. If you need to spend 60 hours a week teaching the same subject year after year perhaps you need to find a job that is less taxing on you. This is the same old yarn spun by the teachers unions. And bitching about no pay raise in 3 years - tell that to the 9% unemployed. I'm sure they'd be happy to get a paycheck.

oh, please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And bitching about no pay raise in 3 years - tell
> that to the 9% unemployed.

Just to clarify - according to FFX Co's budget documents that were released to the public recently, the national rate of unemployment is hovering at about 9% but Fairfax County's unemployment rate is 4.6%

TEACHING IS HARD--but so are a lot of other jobs. Teaching is quite stressful--but the vacations are far superior to the private sector. And Radargirl, you work less than 39 weeks a year. Look at your contract.

Radargirl is very lucky that her husband has such wonderful benefits. Sounds to me like her works for the Federal government--my husband sure doesn't get that much in the private sector. He has great health insurance--which he contributes quite a bit to and he does get to contribute to a 401K--but no pension. His pay is decent (not generous) and he works far more than 60 hours a week. He get to work before 7 and leaves after 5. He works at least an hour after he gets home and spends 2 or 3 hours a day on weekends. He seldom takes lunch. He is paid a salary based on a 40 hour week. Is he required to do this? NO. He does it because he feels it is his responsibility. If he didn't his company would lose business and he would have to let people go who work under him. It is just as stressful as being a teacher.

When I taught school I worked very long hours and it was very hard. I also went to school some summers--but I still had time off. I also was paid no where near what the private sector got--that is not the case any longer.

Why all the bitching about teacher's pay and benefits? I suggest you go to school, get your teaching certificate and get a teaching job (and it's associated pay and benefits) so you will actually have an idea of what you are talking about before you start in on them.

I would like to start off by clarifying that my above argument was not to complain about my job, or my hours, or to sound ungrateful that I have a job when I know there are plenty of people who don't. The purpose of my argument was to show that FCPS employees are entitled to the benefits that our employer offers, and that we work hard for our salaries and benefits, just as every other employed person does in any job, in any sector, in any profession. My argument was meant to debunk the myth that our day is done when the bell rings, or that when summer is here we don't lift a finger until the day after Labor Day.

Perhaps my argument about the majority of people benefiting directly or indirectly from their tax contributions was not very strong and I apologize if this made me seem ignorant of statistics about how tax dollars are spent. But I am no more ignorant of those things than "oh please" is about the teaching profession and what it entails.

My husband does not work for the federal government. He works for a private public relations firm and yes he does have nice benefits. I also know many other people (college graduate/professsionals - lets compare apples to apples) in other fields, in both private sector and govt paid jobs, that have similar benefits and vacations, with the exception of the summer holiday. Of course not every private sector employer offers benefits like he receives, but the point I was trying to make was that there are companies do have similar benefits to those that FCPS offers as an employer. It's not like FCPS is the exception when it comes to benefits. And sure you can say it must be nice to be a teacher to have 3 months off for vacation. Again, it's only 2. And as I said before, my contract is for 10 months. I get paid for 10 months. There are those that say if we extrapolate our salaries to 12 months we'd be rich. Well if I extrapolate my salary to 12 months I would be making what I did as an engineer. To me that means that my salary as a teacher is fairly competitve to other professionals salaries. I chose a job where I am only required to be at school for 10 months and I only get paid for those 10 months - just as you choose a job where you get paid for 12 but then you are expected to be at your job for 12 months. It's not like it's unfair, at least generally speaking. Again I'm not going to argue about people who are forced to be in jobs they hate so they can put food on the table. I'm comparing with people who for the most part have the freedom to choose their profession and aren't forced by illegal means to stay at their current place of employment.

As for "Oh Please"'s comment about working 60 hours a week, I wasn't complaining. I was just pointing out that much to the disbelief of many, teachers aren't out the door when the bell rings, nor do we stop all work for summmer vacation. No, I don't have to "go to work" per se during the summer months, but many teachers spend their time doing things that will make them better teachers. We attend workshops or seminars. We take summer courses. We work on curriculum for the following year. We find ways to better teach new generations of students who are not the same every year. So why would the curriculum be the same? Why should the lesson be exactly the same from year to year, or the tests, or homework assignments? Each year the state adds new standards, but don't remove any. I write up guided note packets because there is so much material to cover that it would be impossible to cover it if students had to copy all the notes by hand, which is also difficult for the unprepared students who can't even remember to bring a pencil to class. Last year I had beautiful notes printed up. This year I got a student who has reading difficulties and requested that I change the format of the notes to chunk topics into more manageable pieces (part of her disability was related to learning more than one concept at a time). I set up a new set of notes just for her. If I can do anything to help even one child I will try to do it. Again, I'm not complaining, just pointing out that one set of lesson plans that were successful for one group of students may not work for the next year's batch of kids and changes have to be made.

Each year I'm expected to incorporate more technology, more hands-on projects, more fun things so students don't get bored or lose attention since most can't focus for more than 5 minutes at a time thanks to tv, internet and all their gadgets (yes, there has been research done on this). It's increasingly more difficult to keep kids interested in academics when there are other things they'd rather be doing. Changes have to be made every year to account for changes in student's attitudes towards learning.

Each year I get more students in my classroom. The headcount goes up. Adding just one extra child changes the dynamics, how I have to teach, how I have to group students, how I have to differentiate for a wide range of learning abilities and learning preference/strategies. I'm teaching students who barely passed the previous course, who are capable of working but are too lazy or just don't care, who don't speak English, who have emotional and learning disabilities. One lesson plan does not fit all. Sometimes I have to prepare several sets of notes for the same topic to account for all the different student needs. I have general education geometry, co-taught geometry which includes special ed kids with general education kids. One lesson plan does not fit all. Again I'm not complaining, but it's is more time consuming than people who haven't taught realize. Teachers who do use one lesson plan year after year and regardless of the types of students they have are crappy teachers. If anyone tells you otherwise then they're the ignorant ones.

To say that I'm overtaxed or over stressed because I choose not to use the same lesson plan year after year is ridiculous and unfair. Again, I'm not complaining about my job or the hours I put in. I put in the hours I need because I take pride in my work, and I see how my efforts are reflected in my students' successes. I am complaining about how others undermine the efforts teachers do put in or the time required to be a good teacher or how if it takes me longer than the contracted 7.5 hours to get my work done it means I'm inefficient or inept. I guarantee that if every teacher "read his or her contract" and only worked the contracted 7.5 hours for the contracted 10 months, you'd have pretty inadequate teachers.

Like I said, I worked as an engineer--40 hours a week and that was it. I CHOSE this job because I felt I could make more of a contribution. Not because the hours were better, not because the pay was better. I know the hours are longer, and the pay is worse. I do it because I love my work, and for the most part I love the children I teach and know I'm adding to the people they are becoming.

I don't have to look at my contract to know the hours I'm putting into my lessons. I put in far more than 39 weeks. I put in far more than the contracted 7.5 hours. As someone else mentioned I work until the job is done. I never said my job is any more stressful than any other job. All I want is to be fairly compensated for the work I do.

So what's wrong with teachers being paid competitvely? Is it not a worthwhile profession? Do our efforts not result in something desirable to society? Is it not worth paying teachers a fair, living wage when we're educating future generations - your children? Just because teachers were historically paid much, much less years ago and now are getting better compensation, is it undeserved? And how does a teacher's salary compare with other professions where the majority of them have master's or doctorate's?

That's all we want. I wonder if there is a blog where people can complain about how much professional athletes make or how much lawyers make or how little people who scrub toilets make. Maybe if I stayed an engineer I would be more aware of the blogs where engineers' salaries are criticized - oh wait, a majority of them are on the "gov't dole," so I guess there must be one.

I keep hearing how the teachers are always working on new technologies, yet my kids' teachers barely use Blackboard. They don't even bother to use the simplest of technologies like Blackboard - and you want me to beleive that you are hard at work every day thinking about ways to incorporate technologies in the classroom?

By the way, playing DVD's during the entire month of June does not count as incorporating technology in the classroom.

former teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TEACHING IS HARD--but so are a lot of other jobs.
>pension. His pay is decent (not
> generous) and he works far more than 60 hours a
> week. He get to work before 7 and leaves after 5.
> He works at least an hour after he gets home and
> spends 2 or 3 hours a day on weekends. He seldom
> takes lunch. He is paid a salary based on a 40
> hour week. Is he required to do this? NO. He
> does it because he feels it is his responsibility.
> If he didn't his company would lose business and
> he would have to let people go who work under him.
> It is just as stressful as being a teacher.
>

He's snowing you. He's got a girlfriend on the side and that's why he's gone so much. He works when he gets home because of the time he missed at work, and to avoid you. Take off the rose-colored glasses. Your man's cheating on you.

It's kind of odd how conservatives view the teacher or union worker making 60k as some sort of villainous leech on society yet ignore the CEO making 400x his workers instead of 40x in the 50s and 60s.

They see the benefits public workers get, and instead of thinking, "Hey, how can we get these benefits to MORE workers?" are sitting around thinking, "Hey, how can we take away benefits from more fortunate workers?"

It's almost like ... class envy.

All I'm saying is that I know what I do as a teacher. I can't vouch for the rest of the faculty nor is it fair for you to say that because other teachers don't do what they should that it means I'm not either.

I do use blackboard. Every assignment and every note given in class is posted there. I use smartboard. I save off lessons written on the smartboard and post those on blackboard. I use other online tools for assessments. I write power point slideshows that kids use for review packets. And no, I don't play movies during the entire month of June.

I thought the purpose of this forum was to share ideas and information. Apparently some people are not interested in listening. It's unfortunate that you have some bad experiences with your children's teachers and think all teachers are the same. I bet you wouldn't like people to judge your abilities in your profession based on everyone else in your profession. After all, there are a few good lawyers out there too...

What scares me is that the teachers who will leave as a result of lowered pay and benefits are not the ones who don't post on Blackboard. There are conscientious teachers who are conscientious no matter what endeavor they are in---it's just who they are. If they leave, some company will gain a great employee and they will succeed in their new place. The big losers will be the students they left behind. The teachers who are not conscientious will stick with teaching because they can't find a job elsewhere.

Of course you can't attract good people if you don't pay. Lower pay and benefits will continue to lead to less attractive job candidates. The kids and the whole society are the big losers. When will people realize that the investment in kids is key to the future of all of us. ??? It seems like this would be a no brainer.

Yes, teachers deserve more pay--BUT THERE'S NO MONEY! DO YOU READ THE NEWSPAPERS? THE ECONOMY IS IN THE TANK. I read today that 25% of Fairfax County residents feel that they are struggling financially.

FCPS is paying more for teachers next year: it is coming in the form of all the additional money that health care costs. Health care is going up. Have you not heard?

Yes, I understand the health care issue. I think that Fairfax County could strip out a lot of waste (yes, there is waste) and at least hold the line on salaries instead of a decline in salaries happening (which is what happens when health insurance increases---because the employees pay 25% of the cost of the insurance). I'm not sure how scientific your statement that "25% of residents "feel" that they are struggling financially is. You read that where? And how many felt that way before the economy "went into the tank"?

Everyone knows that health care is going to kill this country if the politicians don't act on it. Obama tried to do something, but couldn't do anything "real". There is going to have to be rationing on it---until we come to that conclusion and figure it out, we will have this dilemna. The conservatives want the rationing to happen as a matter of income and things like taking health insurance away from people in the middle (probably thus knocking them out of the middle). The liberals want to tax to pay for health care for everyone (probably untenable). The solution is going to have to be something else. Until we get there, we're going to suffer.

Obama cant beat all the Medical Rep lobbyists - it's SO FUNNY to see so many people want to continue to suck the d*ck of companies like Merck and Bristol-Myers Squibb. Cause it's so much better to not change health care - things are just fine with it - better to stick yr head in the sand instead of trying to do something about it. As the repubs say "Let Them Drink Tea!" LoLz

Obama did not even try to deal with the drug company issue. DEMS were only interested in attacking insurance companies. They did nothing to bring down the COST of health care itself. They only went after insurance companies. Think about it. Of course, insurance companies are not saints but if the costs go up-so do theirs. Then, so do yours. The new law does not go to the root of the problem. As far as insurance companies turning down preexisting conditions--doesn't you auto insurance cost more if you've had wrecks and offenses?

Why should drugs cost so much? That is the biggest expense for most people. The Dems did not want to attack the drug companies because they were DONORS.
Why does it cost so much to see a doctor? Fear of lawsuits. They refused to even consider any kind of tort reform.

I am not saying the REpublicans are better--but don't pretend that Obama really tried. It is a terrible law.

You teachers should come to Loudoun. LCPS pays the full boat for retirement!

The school system will pay 9.8% of the base salary for all full-time instructional/professional personnel and 8.5% of the base salary for all non-professional covered employees. The employees 5.00% share is also paid by the school system.

And just $273 a month for health insurance-family plan!

radargirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do use blackboard. Every assignment and every
> note given in class is posted there. I use
> smartboard. I save off lessons written on the
> smartboard and post those on blackboard. I use
> other online tools for assessments. I write power
> point slideshows that kids use for review packets.
> And no, I don't play movies during the entire
> month of June.

You know, all of the teachers I read posting here say about the same things you say. But all of the teachers I run into through my kids don't seem to do any of the above. My sample size is getting pretty large at this point - what you say you do and what I see teachers doing (or not doing) seem to have no similarity.

So either I've gotten a really bad draw, or you say one thing and do another.

Can you show me some examples?

I don't have a problem with the teachers in FFCPS. The teaachers are not the problem. The problem is the useless administrators. If the County wants to save finds, they could easily get rid of 30% of the administrators which would have no affect on how the schools operate or how well the children learn. Keep the teachers, dump the administrators. Better yet, take that 30% of administrators and create more classes so the rooms don't average 30 kids per class!

not low enough !!!

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's kind of odd how conservatives view the
> teacher or union worker making 60k as some sort of
> villainous leech on society yet ignore the CEO
> making 400x his workers instead of 40x in the 50s
> and 60s.


Nobody is talking about "union workers", they are talking about unionized teachers, who are public servants who have been exploiting the taxpayer for decades.

Liberals and supporters of these overpaid hack teachers are desperately trying to take cover behind workers in private sector unions and equate their lax and comfy gigs with the blue collar workers in the private sector.

Public is not Private.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

great quotes so far............

Posted by: Mac ()
Date: March 04, 2011 09:13PM

"The problem is the useless administrators. If the County wants to save finds, they could easily get rid of 30% of the administrators which would have no affect on how the schools operate or how well the children learn."

says someone who's not doing all the day-to-day administration of a regular business facility, much less on that involves children (and parents). Can you pinpoint which administrators should be removed, and why? C'mon big boy(or girl I dunno) - step up to the plate! :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: March 27, 2011 08:38AM

"they are talking about unionized teachers, who are public servants who have been exploiting the taxpayer for decades."


oh yes, you often see those teachers driving around in Lexus trucks on their way to the airport, private jet to the Teacher's Casino in Saint Maarten, or their private teacher beach resort in Cabo o_0


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: oh, please ()
Date: March 04, 2011 08:32PM

You know, all of the teachers I read posting here say about the same things you say. But all of the teachers I run into through my kids don't seem to do any of the above. My sample size is getting pretty large at this point - what you say you do and what I see teachers doing (or not doing) seem to have no similarity

as a parent with twins in the FCPS, all I see is my kid's teachers increasing their knowledge base ten-fold, seemingly every day. But I'm silly and waste valuable TV watching time asking my kids what they've gone over that day.:)

Just asked them about the blackboards. They say the teachers are usually using a either the whiteboard or a smartboard, projects stuff from the computer - and it's touchscreen - sounds WAAAYYYY better than dealing with chalkdust.

so tell us, "oh please", tell us what you EXACTLY do you see yr children's parents doing (or not doing) - cause I dont see what you are not seeing, I guess

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
oh yes, you often see those teachers driving around in Lexus trucks on their way to the airport, private jet to the Teacher's Casino in Saint Maarten, or their private teacher beach resort in Cabo o_0

Wow. you sure prove a point. Great comparison.

I guess if Wall Street steals billions, it's perfectly OK for FCPS teachers to steal millions.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

<< Why don't FCPS teachers pay anything for their retirement? >>

Because the board of supervisors can suck every last red cent out of homeowners through real estate taxes.

I love the whinney teacher complaint that they are underpaid. Scores of industries have frozen of eliminated pensions in the last 20 years. Too bad they had to make a profit.

Look, they have already changed the retirement law for new hires. Now they have to teach for 40 years instead of 30 years in VA in order to get a full VRS pension. The next step will be getting rid of the defined pension (which I'm sure will happen soon). Is that good enough for all of you complainers on here or do you want teachers who are in their 50's and 60's to suddenly be told that they should have saved a bunch of money because they are not going to get a pension? What is it that you want? Please, do tell. If your children want to be teachers, they are already going to get the worse deal and probably even worse one coming. If the private sector has better pensions or 401K's, don't complain about the quality of the people that you attract to teach your grandchildren.

Getting a college degree is getting more and more expensive all the time. Who will choose a low paid profession when they have outstanding debt? Here's the deal----you complainers will be spending money on private schools instead of on pensions for the public teachers (which I'm sure will cost you more). And I'm sure you will complain about how "bad" the public schools are. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You are going to have to prioritize what is important to you and society. Is it granite countertops for your kitchen or is it an education for your children? I know which one your children want.

I don't know what Fairfaxs looks like but I imagine it is similar.

Sorry, but retiring and getting benefits when you are in your early 50's isn't a Constitutional right.

You work for the taxpayer, and the taxpayer is sick of overcompensating you.

Stop trying to justify yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 10:09AM by WingNut.
Attachments:

It seems to me that FCPS teachers, overall, do not complain about being underpaid. Others complain about them being overpaid and then that draws some reaction. But usually the complaint doesn't start with the teaching staff.

<< Is that good enough for all of you complainers on here or do you want teachers who are in their 50's and 60's to suddenly be told that they should have saved a bunch of money because they are not going to get a pension? >>

I was in my fifties when the Company I worked for 25 years froze our pensions. Now I won't get squat. What makes FCPS teachers so Effing special??

But how much have you saved on your larger salary?

That's what makes you Effing special.

Because with all things in life the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Teachers never stop complaining year in and year out.

Teachers, you can bitch all you want but the fact remains you get paid a years salary for 9 months work. This doesnt include all Federal holidays, a week at Christmas, a week at Easter and scattered days off for other reasons.

When was the last time someone in the private sector got to take off because it was snowing or too hot?

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teaching contracts are for about 180 work days.
> There is no vacation time included. Teachers give
> up gross pay for benefits in negotiations all the
> time. County governments like this because it
> costs the government less to provide the benefits
> than it would cost them to pay employees in salary
> who would then have to buy the benefits
> themselves. That's how it works.


194 days.
There are no negotiations. VA does not have collective bargaining.

In my industry my company had smaller salaries because of the pension. That argument is sooooooo lame. I haven't saved much at all. My Real Estate taxes doubled in the last 8 years though.

Gummy Joe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reality Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

>
> It is unheard of in the private sector to
> contribute zero to a retirement or health care
> plan. Now you are lucky if an employer even gives
> 401k matching funds.

Teachers contribute to their health care plan. To say that FFX County teachers contribute zero is false. For example, a Kaiser Permanente HMO plan costs a 10 month employee $408/mo. That same plan in retirement is $1,361/mo. For a mini-family (couple) it is $1,089/mo and for an indivdual it is $544/mo.

Zero towards healthcare? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gummy Joe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > reality Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
>
> >
> > It is unheard of in the private sector to
> > contribute zero to a retirement or health care
> > plan. Now you are lucky if an employer even
> gives
> > 401k matching funds.
>
> Teachers contribute to their health care plan. To
> say that FFX County teachers contribute zero is
> false. For example, a Kaiser Permanente HMO plan
> costs a 10 month employee $408/mo. That same plan
> in retirement is $1,361/mo. For a mini-family
> (couple) it is $1,089/mo and for an indivdual it
> is $544/mo.

Just to clarify, the 10 month active employee pays $408 for a family plan.

all they do is talk about how hard it is and how little money they make. they get 3 months a year off, cant get fired/laid off, and retire at 55 w/a pension. fire them all and offer them their jobs back w/ a 20 % paycut and no pension w/summer school mandatory since the rest of the world has to work the whole year.

There is no summer school anymore. It was cut so it would be hard to make them do it. It cost too much to keep the A/C going.

Also, you cannot retire at 55 unless you have 30 years in. Most people don't because they have often lived in other places and/or worked at other jobs. Yes, there are some who do---but they have to pay that huge medical insurance premium. I work with someone who is 62. She could have retired, but is staying because of the health insurance. She does not have a husband who has health insurance available on his job. She has a daughter who is still in high school. She has to pay on the family plan so she can't afford to retire. She has over 30 years in.

The bonuses for my wall street buddies were written in the contract, damn it, we must pay them no matter what. After we paid them in full using taxpayers' money, let's fire some more missiles to libya, only 200 million a day.

But the teachers contracts don't mean anything. We need to rework their contracts to save our economy.

It wasn't Fox News making this report or defense, it was President Barack Hussein Obama.

Obama and the Democratic Congress could have crafted the bailout to deny these bounses, but they did not have the foresight.



fox news Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The bonuses for my wall street buddies were
> written in the contract, damn it, we must pay them
> no matter what. After we paid them in full using
> taxpayers' money, let's fire some more missiles to
> libya, only 200 million a day.
>
> But the teachers contracts don't mean anything. We
> need to rework their contracts to save our
> economy.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

BTW, Virginia is a "right to work" state. There is no real union. I work at a school where 2 teachers have already been fired this year. Actually, they were not "fired" because they basically tell you that you can "resign" or be "fired". Most people choose "resign" because this is their career and they want to get another job if possible and not have a "fire" on their job record (and this way the taxpayers don't have to pay unemployment benefits). The employee also has no recourse if they resign. They are working on "firing" another one as I write this. They have substitute teachers in both of those rooms and (needless to say), it's not going real well. The subs get paid poorly and have very little experience. I also know of a teacher who was "fired" last year at another school. So don't tell me that it doesn't happen. It does and is. People don't tend to talk about it. The students pretty much know what is going on and some of them were pretty upset.

I cannot tell more for obvious reasons.

<< I work with someone who is 62 >>

Boo Hoo Hoo. Let me explain how it works in the real world.

I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science. I have worked 35 years - 29 with the same Company. When I stared with my current company I got 2 weeks vacation, had a pension which paid about 30% of your the average of your last 5 years salary after 20 years and at least age 62. There were also medical benefits when you retired.

After 5 years I started getting 3 weeks vacation a year. Medical benefits in retirement were eliminated. There was no grandfathering - they were just gone.

After 15 years I started getting 4 weeks vacation but the pension calculations went from the average of the last 5 years to the average of all years.

After 25 years I started getting 5 weeks vacation but the pension was frozen. I will get $19,000 a year when I'm 62. Frozen - no cost of living increases that's it in todays dollars. I will have put 33 years in then.

I will be working at least till I'm at least 67.

What is the average salary of a FCPS teacher who has worked for FCPS 29 years?
I make $96,000.

Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> << I work with someone who is 62 >>
>
> Boo Hoo Hoo. Let me explain how it works in the
> real world.
>
> I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science. I
> have worked 35 years - 29 with the same Company.
> When I stared with my current company I got 2
> weeks vacation, had a pension which paid about 30%
> of your the average of your last 5 years salary
> after 20 years and at least age 62. There were
> also medical benefits when you retired.
>
> After 5 years I started getting 3 weeks vacation a
> year. Medical benefits in retirement were
> eliminated. There was no grandfathering - they
> were just gone.
>
> After 15 years I started getting 4 weeks vacation
> but the pension calculations went from the average
> of the last 5 years to the average of all years.
>
> After 25 years I started getting 5 weeks vacation
> but the pension was frozen. I will get $19,000 a
> year when I'm 62. Frozen - no cost of living
> increases that's it in todays dollars. I will
> have put 33 years in then.
>
> I will be working at least till I'm at least 67.
>
> What is the average salary of a FCPS teacher who
> has worked for FCPS 29 years?
> I make $96,000.

Keep working and set some of that money aside. Looks like you're going to need it.

Does your company have a 401K plan? Do they match any of it? Have you been using it? It's hard to believe that 19K is going to be it for your pension. I think a lot of companies have 401K plans.

One problem you might have is that you never got a Master's degree? Did you have continuing education during your career?

In the "real world", you can leave a company---29 years is a long time to stay in the same place. Did you ever try to go somewhere else when you saw the "writing on the wall"? Is this company having a hard time attracting new hires or ??

I'm sorry to hear of this situation! If this is a typical thing for the private sector, then we are all in trouble.

The new normal in America may very well be that we save for our own retirements. This is something young people would do well to heed. Read these posts and learn. We are truly competing with a world that has a much lower standard of living.

One of the fears of teachers right now is that they will not be able to teach until 67. Teaching is difficult mentally and physically. Even if a teacher can go to 67 or 70, the system is not keen on paying them at the top end of the pay scale when they can get a young one for half as much. The answer might be to pay these older teachers a decent pension in exchange for a certain amount of work like mentoring new teachers or helping them out in some way--developing curriculum,tutoring, etc. (part time).

i hearing someone say "teaching is difficult mentally and physically." really? really? compared to what? manual labor? blue collar professions? teachers probably stand at a podium 3/4 hours a day and sit at a desk the rest of the time. its not that hard. mentally difficult? compared to what? the stress of an attorney or sales person? the concentration of a doctor? trying to get all the orders right at the drive thru in mcdonalds? its like teachers believe every other profession in the world is 'easy' and theirs is of so difficult that they 'deserve' a ridiculous pension and health benefits when in reality thats not the case. if you dont like the pay package you get go do something else. work on straight commission and become a revenue producer instead of overhead. start a business. do something besides whine about how hard being a teacher is and whats fair.

Must be the Unions' fault. Wait there are no public teacher unions here in the Commonwealth. Guess we just want good teachers - how totally absurd.

Teachers are whiners Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all they do is talk about how hard it is and how
> little money they make. they get 3 months a year
> off, cant get fired/laid off, and retire at 55 w/a
> pension. fire them all and offer them their jobs
> back w/ a 20 % paycut and no pension w/summer
> school mandatory since the rest of the world has
> to work the whole year.

So you would have a 1st year teacher start at $35,200 w/o a pension? Let me guess that you would be the first person to complain about the quality of education too.

reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > << I work with someone who is 62 >>
> >
> > Boo Hoo Hoo. Let me explain how it works in
> the
> > real world.
> >
> > I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science. I
> > have worked 35 years - 29 with the same Company.
>
> > When I stared with my current company I got 2
> > weeks vacation, had a pension which paid about
> 30%
> > of your the average of your last 5 years salary
> > after 20 years and at least age 62. There were
> > also medical benefits when you retired.
> >
> > After 5 years I started getting 3 weeks vacation
> a
> > year. Medical benefits in retirement were
> > eliminated. There was no grandfathering - they
> > were just gone.
> >
> > After 15 years I started getting 4 weeks
> vacation
> > but the pension calculations went from the
> average
> > of the last 5 years to the average of all
> years.
> >
> > After 25 years I started getting 5 weeks
> vacation
> > but the pension was frozen. I will get $19,000
> a
> > year when I'm 62. Frozen - no cost of living
> > increases that's it in todays dollars. I will
> > have put 33 years in then.
> >
> > I will be working at least till I'm at least
> 67.
> >
> > What is the average salary of a FCPS teacher
> who
> > has worked for FCPS 29 years?
> > I make $96,000.
>
> Keep working and set some of that money aside.
> Looks like you're going to need it.

So lets see, since you are getting screwed you think everyone should get screwed. I guess I can understand that. Maybe, and this is just a wild idea, maybe we should all demand fair treatment instead of all allowing ourselves to be screwed.

See how that works. I know being treated fairly and not being screwed over sounds all Commyish but just getting screwed sounds all worshipCapitalism/supidish.

Just saying...

reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > << I work with someone who is 62 >>
> >
> > Boo Hoo Hoo. Let me explain how it works in
> the
> > real world.
> >
> > I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science. I
> > have worked 35 years - 29 with the same Company.
>
> > When I stared with my current company I got 2
> > weeks vacation, had a pension which paid about
> 30%
> > of your the average of your last 5 years salary
> > after 20 years and at least age 62. There were
> > also medical benefits when you retired.
> >
> > After 5 years I started getting 3 weeks vacation
> a
> > year. Medical benefits in retirement were
> > eliminated. There was no grandfathering - they
> > were just gone.
> >
> > After 15 years I started getting 4 weeks
> vacation
> > but the pension calculations went from the
> average
> > of the last 5 years to the average of all
> years.
> >
> > After 25 years I started getting 5 weeks
> vacation
> > but the pension was frozen. I will get $19,000
> a
> > year when I'm 62. Frozen - no cost of living
> > increases that's it in todays dollars. I will
> > have put 33 years in then.
> >
> > I will be working at least till I'm at least
> 67.
> >
> > What is the average salary of a FCPS teacher
> who
> > has worked for FCPS 29 years?
> > I make $96,000.
>
> Keep working and set some of that money aside.
> Looks like you're going to need it.

I'll give you what seems to be the typical response and that is: You knew what the job paid and the benefits when you took the job. You didn't have to stay with that company. You could have left if you didn't like it.

You say you have a B.S. With a B.S. and 29 years, a FCPS teacher is paid $78,449.

But how much smarter are the chil-dren after all the money we've wasted?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

<< In the "real world", you can leave a company---29 years is a long time to stay in the same place >>

I stayed because of the "Pension". It wasn't eliminated till I put 25 years in. The Company started a 401K plan whereby they matched the first 6% of salary. That lasted 2 years until the crash in 2008. Went 2 years with nothing. In January they started matching 3% of the first 6% you put in the 401K. When you are your 50's and has a kid in College (out of state) you don't start looking for a new job. - too risky.

As far a a masters - the only option is night school. Get real. Two to Three hour commute - 8.5 hours at work - can't be done. I don't get summers off.

Like millions of others I accept the way things are. Life is not fair. You deal with it. I am angry that FCPS teacher's bleed entitlement while my real estate taxes have gone throught the roof.

a starting pay of 35k seems fair. maybe give them 40k . i have a feeling there are lots of qualified unemployed people in their 20's who would gladly teach 9 months a year for that salary.

Teaching is a hard job, some of the kids are great to deal with, and some of them are really messed up. It's also an important job, if young people don't get some kind of education more of them will grow up to be criminals, and if your not concerned with crime think of the benefits of an informed knowledgeable citizenry for our economy and democracy. If teachers compensation seems high to you go apply for a position. Lets look at some numbers: http://www.fcps.edu/DHR/salary.htm

A teacher with a masters degree and 2 years experience makes 50,223 plus benefits

I'm a high school graduate, I fix computers and have been in the field for 2 years I make 50,500 plus 6% retirement contribution plus life and disability insurance plus health and dental.

A teacher with a PHD and 28 years in can make 92,094 the max for the payscale.

I can take 4 certification tests change employers two or three times and be making about 90-100,000 in the next four years with a little luck and work, many of my coworkers are in that situation/pay amount now.

They do get summers off and their benefits are a little bit better than mine, but claiming that teachers are overcompensated is stretching it. Finally if you are really concerned that taxes are too high look into moving to Somalia they have no government thus no taxes except what the guy who is better armed takes off of you when he feels like it which I would bet is about 100% and a beating if you are lucky.

"a starting pay of 35k seems fair. maybe give them 40k . i have a feeling there are lots of qualified unemployed people in their 20's who would gladly teach 9 months a year for that salary."


So you are proposing that we reduce the starting salary? When you say "lots of qualified unemployed people in their 20's", do you mean that they are straight out of college with no experience?

Hmmmm.

<>

And that would mean a $69,070 pension for life at 55. I'm sure a high school grad that "fixes computers" is no expert on the ways of the world of the FCPS. The FCPS system is replete with thousands making over $100K. I could care less what they make. Benefits are the incredible burden on taxpayers.

<< Finally if you are really concerned that taxes are too high look into moving to Somalia >>

Wait till you own a house Sonny. Working the help desk will never get you there however.

To Cut Teacher Pensions:

You REALLY need to get another job. You are awfully bitter. Did you overbuy on your house? Maybe you are underwater? Maybe you don't like your job? Does your wife work as well? If she makes anything close to you, you are doing well. Even if she makes half of your salary, you are doing pretty well in the grand scheme of things. One of you could up your education or skills and go for higher pay if you really need it. Would you consider 35K a good salary for your child who is in an "out of state" college to make upon graduation?


Just wondering.

The teachers have not had raises for 3 years, so I think they are letting them down easy (through inflation)---they don't want to take 20% all at once as one poster suggested---because you may see some more bankruptcies and foreclosures. It's not a great thing to do. But moving them down slowly is probably what will happen. I don't think you have to worry too much about teachers and whether they are suffering enough. I think it's interesting how Americans don't like teachers, but in places like Asia they are revered and treated with respect.

<< Did you overbuy on your house? >>

I bought my house 24 years ago. 4,000 square feet on a 1/2 an acre. Paid $190,00 - so noooooooooo.

<< Does your wife work as well? >>

I am divorced for many years. I am paying for my daughters education alone.

<< The teachers have not had raises for 3 years >>

"Public Service" employees get back door raises - they are called "In Step".
I don't care what they make. The outrageous pensions are a burden to taxpayers and provide no benefit. Taxpayer money is going to people who don't work. 75% of your last three salaries is outrageous in this day and age.

<>

I believe $45K is the starting salary for new hires. That is a good wage for 9 months work. Not as good is the 75K a lot of retiries are getting for not working.

<< think it's interesting how Americans don't like teachers, but in places like Asia they are revered and treated with respect. >>

I bet they don't get 75% of the average of their last three salaries when they retire also.

I love how the teacher lobby always brings it back to new hires. They are the ones that will really get screwed.

Okay. I'm not feeling so sorry for you. You live in a 4,000 square foot house and have a daughter who is away at college. I think you will be okay. You don't really need to live on a half acre in such a house as one person. Maintaining such a house must cost a lot.

Second, the teachers have not received a step in 3 years. There is no back door raise.

I do agree that the pensions are going to have to change. There is no doubt that they are too high when young people cannot get a job or a raise. I don't think the salaries are the real problem.

However, I think that the health care situation is another huge problem---those premiums are eating people alive---not just in the public sector.

<< Okay. I'm not feeling so sorry for you. You live in a 4,000 square foot house and have a daughter who is away at college. I think you will be okay. You don't really need to live on a half acre in such a house as one person. Maintaining such a house must cost a lot. >>

That includes the basement - 2700 SQF finished space. I do owe more money than I paid for the house because I got a 90K home equity loan to pay for her college. You're right - I cannot maintain the house properly because my real estate taxes have gone up to almost $600 a month - All so teachers don't get their benefits reduced. They are 55% of the county budget.

My experiece with FCFS teachers:

When my daughter was in Kindergarten they wanted to hold her back because she couldn't read. I asked how are you teaching her to read? They replied that she should already be reading when she got there. The way they are teaching is they read them a lot of books and one day it "just clicks" and they can read. I took it upon myself to teach her at home using a phonetic approach. I had her reading in 3 weeks.

That includes the basement - 2700 SQF finished space. I do owe more money than I paid for the house because I got a 90K home equity loan to pay for her college. You're right - I cannot maintain the house properly because my real estate taxes have gone up to almost $600 a month - All so teachers don't get their benefits reduced. They are 55% of the county budget.

um, you did know this when you moved to the county, right? That we take schools VERY seriously here. And if you really think it goes straight to the teacher's benenfits, and not say, um SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION, then you really need to get out more. Every school around here is stuffed to the gills. Up until they rebuilt my Alma Mater, it was Trailer City all over the place.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


When my daughter was in Kindergarten they wanted to hold her back because she couldn't read. I asked how are you teaching her to read? They replied that she should already be reading when she got there. The way they are teaching is they read them a lot of books and one day it "just clicks" and they can read. I took it upon myself to teach her at home using a phonetic approach. I had her reading in 3 weeks.

if you really feel this way, prehaps you should home-school yr kid. I'm not trying to clown you or anything like that. It just seems you have some sorta mad-on for the FCPS, their teachers, etc. And it's probably not going to stop here. If you feel you can do their job better than them, either join up and become a teacher, take yr kids to private school, home school them, or move out of the county. Those are kinda your only options. Move to Idaho where the property values are MUCH LOWER than here, y'know?

the teachers cant really focus ONLY on yr kid when they have a room with 25-30 other kids in it. Sorry but that's life here in Fairfax. Sometimes, it takes PARENTS to parent to get things done. I'm glad you learned that by teaching your daughter how to read - that's the way it SHOULD be done :)

I really, truly hope you come to some reckoning with your kid's school. Maybe you can volunteer some time in her classroom, or in the school office. That way, you can see hands-on what IS and IS NOT happening, y'know?

p.s. rent that basement out, yo. Probably could get $700-850 a month for it from some college student

My kid's in college now douche. GEEEEZZZZZ. When I retire I will be forced out of the County - because I will not be able to afford the Real Estate taxes. I'll leave that to you. Good Luck!

Did your daughter get the advantage of FCPS schools for her entire K-12 education? Would you have felt the same way about your taxes when she was attending?

Many people move out of this county when they retire for the very reason you are citing---high taxes. This is how America works. If you want services, you pay taxes. If you don't want services, move to a lower tax area where there aren't services or less services.

Lots of us are in the same boat as far as retirement goes and definitely thinking of moving to lower cost areas.

My kid's in college now douche. GEEEEZZZZZ. When I retire I will be forced out of the County - because I will not be able to afford the Real Estate taxes. I'll leave that to you. Good Luck!

ROFLMFAO!!!!!

and I'm sure that FCPS teachers had nothing to do with that particular journey, right?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

That's CLASSIC!!!!!!!!

p.s. if taxes so high here, you can always move to Idaho. Lower taxes, cheaper housing, nice lakes, less traffic. Just sayin.................

happens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

So much teacher union BS to debunk in this post....

> BTW, Virginia is a "right to work" state. There
> is no real union.

Incorrect. 'Right to Work' means you cannot have a closed shop. That is, employees cannot be compelled to join a union as a condition of employment. Virginia can and does have teachers unions. FCPS each has an active branch of the NEA and the AFT, but teachers cannot be compelled to join.

> I work at a school where 2
> teachers have already been fired this year.
> Actually, they were not "fired" because they
> basically tell you that you can "resign" or be
> "fired". Most people choose "resign" because this
> is their career and they want to get another job
> if possible and not have a "fire" on their job
> record

And so the administrator, fearful of union lawsuits if they terminated someone, presents the evidence and allows the teacher to resign. Off to go inflict whatever their failing was (personal, professional, etc.) on the next school district that employs them. I beleive this is how Ricks moved from job to job for like 20 years.

Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kid's in college now douche. GEEEEZZZZZ. When
> I retire I will be forced out of the County -
> because I will not be able to afford the Real
> Estate taxes.

Absolutely! You need to move somewhere that you can afford to live. We don't need more low income people taking more in services than they pay in taxes.

This thread goes to show the concern we all have for where our tax dollars go.
The teachers are not the expensive piece of the budget. They are, however, necessary and what people DO move here for. I've not heard anyone justify the bureaucratic cancer FCPS continues to feed in centralized staff. We all know the teachers are being thrown under the bus by those same parasites as the rest choose to remain nameless unless running for elected office.

<< and I'm sure that FCPS teachers had nothing to do with that particular journey, right?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

That's CLASSIC!!!!!!!! <<

The EX was allowed to move to S.C. when she was in the 2nd grade. FFX County Teachers had nothing to do with her education. Classic argument for the never ending increases in taxes. "The schools are so good." Wrong dildo - the job environment is so good.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

That's CLASSIC!!!!!!!!

If it helps you learn:

http://www.fcta.org/data/fx-public-schools/should-teacher-salaries-be-increased

Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> << In the "real world", you can leave a
> company---29 years is a long time to stay in the
> same place >>
>
> I stayed because of the "Pension". It wasn't
> eliminated till I put 25 years in. The Company
> started a 401K plan whereby they matched the first
> 6% of salary. That lasted 2 years until the crash
> in 2008. Went 2 years with nothing. In January
> they started matching 3% of the first 6% you put
> in the 401K. When you are your 50's and has a kid
> in College (out of state) you don't start looking
> for a new job. - too risky.
>
> As far a a masters - the only option is night
> school. Get real. Two to Three hour commute -
> 8.5 hours at work - can't be done. I don't get
> summers off.
>
> Like millions of others I accept the way things
> are. Life is not fair. You deal with it. I am
> angry that FCPS teacher's bleed entitlement while
> my real estate taxes have gone throught the roof.

I never said you should get a Master's degree. You said you had a B.S. and asked what a FCPS teacher made after 29 years. You're making $96k with a B.S. That's a pretty good salary.

I still love my job of teaching first grade after 31 years! My students learn a tremendous amount every school year. I work with true professionals who have a passion for learning and teaching. Maybe Cut Teacher Pensions needs to look in the mirror and do what it takes to become more positive.....for his health and the happiness of his family.

My whole family is in education and they love to bitch and gossip. I hate the holidays since they never shut the fuck up about the kids,parents, school ect..

Most of my family would never make it the real job market.

Interesting read, but as always there are fatal flaws when someone with an obvious agenda presents a position paper, such as:

*Some data is not footnoted or referenced
*A number of the footnotes include personal opinions rather than research
*Broken links within the footnotes
*Private/Public employee comparisons do not take level of education into account when comparing salaries (or this information was not properly referenced)

Like I said, an interesting read but unfortunately the author has an obvious agenda and the research is at best skewed and at worst misrepresentative.

Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it helps you learn:
>
> http://www.fcta.org/data/fx-public-schools/should-
> teacher-salaries-be-increased

I am conflicted.

I think teaching would be hard for me...all the rude parents and snotty kids.

Teachers are professionals and should be fairly compensated.

Some of my kids' teachers are great, most are average and some stink. There seems to be no way for a crappy teacher to be fired.

FCPS budget is way too big...too many nice-to-have administrators etc

Our taxes are high enough....I do not want to give another penny to anyone...Obama, Newt, Jack Dale....no one. I need my pennies.

I hate the very concept of teacher's unions....they only fight for more more more, and do not self-police (i.e., they fight to prevent firing teachers who should be fired).

I'd like to see the good teachers paid in gold and poor ones horsewhipped.

Because I am conflicted, I cannot support paying anything more....I am in favor of deep cuts in spending for a few years to force some major changes in FCPS.

I am not sure what to do.

Posted by: Cut Teacher Pensions ()
Date: March 27, 2011 07:02PM

"The EX was allowed to move to S.C. when she was in the 2nd grade. FFX County Teachers had nothing to do with her education. Classic argument for the never ending increases in taxes. "The schools are so good." Wrong dildo - the job environment is so good."


sounds like you should go follow, then ;)

To What crack is she on?....please do not assume I am a female.

Interesting read, but ... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting read, but as always there are fatal
> flaws when someone with an obvious agenda presents
> a position paper, such as:
>
> *Some data is not footnoted or referenced
> *A number of the footnotes include personal
> opinions rather than research
> *Broken links within the footnotes
> *Private/Public employee comparisons do not take
> level of education into account when comparing
> salaries (or this information was not properly
> referenced)
>
> Like I said, an interesting read but unfortunately
> the author has an obvious agenda and the research
> is at best skewed and at worst misrepresentative.
>
> Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If it helps you learn:
> >
> >
> http://www.fcta.org/data/fx-public-schools/should-
>
> > teacher-salaries-be-increased


...and who is "Jack Vale"?

Your are an English teacher who doesn't write English very well.

Does the Fairfax County teacher's retirement cover their families insurance coverage fully also? Or is it just the teacher's insurance that is covered?

Jade Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the Fairfax County teacher's retirement cover
> their families insurance coverage fully also? Or
> is it just the teacher's insurance that is
> covered?

It depends on what the retiree needs. A retiree can have single coverage, mini-family, or family. But what do you mean by "fully covered"? It is not paid for by the school board. The retiree has to pay for the coverage. It is about $1500 a month for family coverage.

tgbwc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It depends on what the retiree needs. A retiree
> can have single coverage, mini-family, or family.
> But what do you mean by "fully covered"? It is
> not paid for by the school board. The retiree has
> to pay for the coverage. It is about $1500 a month
> for family coverage.

My estimate was a little high (about right if you add dental). Rates run between $1,070 and $1,361 a month for family coverage. Individual coverage runs between $428 and $524 per month. A lot of people think that teachers don't pay anything for their health care when they retire. The school board picks up $100.

http://www.fcps.edu/DHR/retirees/benefits/2011health/pdfs/11retireebriefing.pdf

Cut Teacher Pensions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "Public Service" employees get back door raises -
> they are called "In Step".

FCPS teachers have not gotten step increases for the last three years.

My father's retirement from the defense contractor where he worked for 42 years comes to about 80% of what he was paid his last two years.

These days the same company doesn't offer a pension (I know because I work for them), but my financial planner has me budgeting and investing with the same 80% goal.

Seems to me that 75% is a little short of what it should be...

tgbwc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I never said you should get a Master's degree. You
> said you had a B.S. and asked what a FCPS teacher
> made after 29 years. You're making $96k with a
> B.S. That's a pretty good salary.

I make almost $120k a year without even an Associates.

A teacher with a Ph.D and max years in doesn't make that in FCPS, even if you extrapolate an extra two months.

I work for my money, but I'm pretty sure plenty of teachers work just as hard.

tgbwc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tgbwc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > It depends on what the retiree needs. A retiree
> > can have single coverage, mini-family, or
> family.
> > But what do you mean by "fully covered"? It is
> > not paid for by the school board. The retiree
> has
> > to pay for the coverage. It is about $1500 a
> month
> > for family coverage.
>
> My estimate was a little high (about right if you
> add dental). Rates run between $1,070 and $1,361 a
> month for family coverage. Individual coverage
> runs between $428 and $524 per month. A lot of
> people think that teachers don't pay anything for
> their health care when they retire. The school
> board picks up $100.
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/DHR/retirees/benefits/2011heal
> th/pdfs/11retireebriefing.pdf

Try getting those rates in the private market. THEY DO NOT EXIST. Maybe a healthy 30 year old could get an individual policy for ~$500/mo, but no way can you get anything in the market, group or individual insurance, for that price for a retiree. It is subsidized in some way by FCPS.

Summer is not a vacation. Those hours have already been worked prior (and many more:) Further, the "vacation" is 9 weeks, not a "summer"

While you are asking...

Why do they get paid 90K for a job with essentially 180 days of vacation a year? (add it the fuck up)

It's also a job where you get paid more over time even though your roles, responsibilities, and knowledge are essentially not increasing measurably.

In my field, I have to move up and take on more responsibility to earn more. I also have to keep abreast of technologies that flip every 18 months...and we don't get a fat cat retirement..indexed for inflation or otherwise. I don't get to teach the same Algebra 1 curriculum for 20 years straight.

If I hear one more person say that teachers aren't paid enough, I will puke...or punch the asshole. Anyone saying that is either naive or disingenuous, but either way, they need a "wake up" slap.

Lewis Wade Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Summer is not a vacation. Those hours have
> already been worked prior (and many more:)
> Further, the "vacation" is 9 weeks, not a "summer"


Fuck. You.

Do you have any concept of how many hours people work in this county? And by work, I don't mean teach the same thing over and over...and pretend they have extended office hours.

Suck my ass. We'll get to your benefits soon. Count on it. The wind is shifting...and once home mortgage deductions go, America is going to wake up.

aszdfgvzsdfgzsd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have any concept of how many hours people
> work in this county? And by work, I don't mean
> teach the same thing over and over...and pretend
> they have extended office hours.
>

Sour grapes. If you think it's so great, go get a job teaching, if you're smart enough to get the degree and a job.

I'm thinking you're jealous due to being to stupid to teach.

And I am not a teacher.

huh?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aszdfgvzsdfgzsd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you have any concept of how many hours
> people
> > work in this county? And by work, I don't mean
> > teach the same thing over and over...and
> pretend
> > they have extended office hours.
> >
>
> Sour grapes. If you think it's so great, go get a
> job teaching, if you're smart enough to get the
> degree and a job.
>
> I'm thinking you're jealous due to being to stupid
> to teach.
>
> And I am not a teacher.


Guess again. Both my BS and MS are in engineering. As I stated, I am in an industry where the technology flips every 18 months. What did you infer from that statement originally? That I am a fucking plumber? Way to demonstrate your complete lack of reading comprehension...assplug.

Why I am not a teacher:

- I prefer to work in a challenging field rather than being stuck in an endless Groundhog Day loop

- Can earn more in my field

- Prefer to work with people from whom I can learn...rather than a bunch of bed-wetting whiners


Please don't take this the wrong way, but fuck off.

Those who can't do, teach.

I'm about to start my fourth year teaching, and will be receiving my very first pay raise. I chose fairfax over loudoun because of the benefits (that's how they compete). I don't think teachers in fairfax are paid too little, rather just enough to live modestly in the county (live in a 1980s townhouse with a roommate, driving the same care I bought in high school, and haven't taken a trip anywhere since teaching because I've been paying off my student loan).

I didn't decide to be a teacher because I wanted to be wealthy, I did it for the kids, and have never and will never expect to live lavishly. I do agree it is difficult to fire underperforming teachers, and because of that they stagnate in schools, giving those of us who are meeting or exceeding expectations a bad rap.

It's true that standards and the counties program of study changes every year. We are expected to update our lessons and practices every year. My school meeting/trainings stopped the last week of June. I've been in training/meeting since August 2nd. The "vacation" is not truly 3 month most of us (at least in cluster1)

Btw:

Education level--all this talk about degrees....now in Virginia (i suspect it didn't used to be this way) you cannot earn teacher certification from the major colleges until you reach the masters level.

Taxes--you get what you paid for. There a reason northern states like NY, NJ, and PA outperform our students. They pay much higher taxes which equates to lower student:teacher ratios, more attention for each students needs, etc
Oh and their teachers are paid more......

corrupt bargain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Page 38 of the school budget:
>
> "....the VRS employee contribution of 5.0 percent
> (unchanged from FY 2011), which is also paid by
> FCPS, results in a total FCPS contribution to VRS
> of 10.16 percent in FY 2012, compared to 8.93
> percent in FY 2011."
>
> FCPS pays both the employER and employEE
> contribution for retirement - the teachers pay 0.
> FCPS employees get a total of 10% of the salary
> paid to the VRS. How long has this deal been
> going on?


I think this means the employee contributes 5%,and FCPS contributes 5% more.

You guys are missing something... First off, teachers should get as much benefits as they can to deal with your crappy kids all day!!

But there's also this lessor known fact...most teachers are required to attend teaching conferences and classes and others cert classes during the summer, and most times at their cost. So that summer "vacation" isn't all you people think it's cracked up to be. They're also not off all the months the kids are either.

Like it or not, what Northern VA teachers get is set by the market. If you leave this area and check out teacher's salaries and benefits, whatever deal FCPS, Arlington, or Loudoun teachers get is average at best.

Believe it or not, school districts have to deal with the fact that the grass can be greener elsewhere. Knowing what teachers make elsewhere (which much lower housing costs), I am not sure why anyone relying on a FCPS salary to pay the bills would stay here. Go somewhere with a union and stop spending half your salary on a townhouse.

Teaching kids in Fairfax is not some "dream job" that people will take less money for. Sure some of the teachers probably have spouses who make a bunch of money working for Booz Allen or something, and they just work to stay busy, so the money isn't important. Some of them actually rely on that salary and if it doesn't provide a decently comfortable existence, then the teachers that are worth anything will go where they can find it. See how "prestigious" TJ is when it is staffed with some bottom of the barrel teachers because FCPS pays teachers like a McDonalds manager.

FCPS says they're going to pay the Teacher's contribution into VRS for them. Guess where that money is coming from? The rest of your services including public safety. The county must balance their budget every year by law and gives over 50% of their total budget (bigger than some state) to the school board which is allowed to function semi-autonomously. The new county executive recently notified all the department heads to cut 5% of their budgets for the next two fiscal years. In some places like public safety, that directly translates to positions. The population of fairfax County is increasing due to development in Lorton and tysons not to mentioned added problems because of the Metro expansion. Enjoy the 15 minute wait for a Paramedic when you're have a heart attack or a 12 minute wait for a cop when some shitbag is stabbing you for your I-phone. No Hope, keep the change.

PS The Firefighters pay 7% into their retirement, the cops pay 10%.

fcpsassrapestaxpayers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS says they're going to pay the Teacher's
> contribution into VRS for them.

Objection. Facts not in evidence

more waste Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am yet to see a study that says that teaches
> with a masters are better teachers-waste of money
> in my opinion.
>
> Payments to Univ of Wisconsin were $877,734 in FY
> 2010.
>
> George Mason got only $327,433.
>
> Something fishy aboyt Wisconsin.....
>
> Another bs expense-$40,846 to VA School Boards
> Assoc. What the crap is that? Do we have to belong
> to that?



Hiring a teacher with a Masters Degree is like hiring a brain surgeon to give physicals at the local CVS. It does not take a brain surgeon to shove a thermometer into some illegals mouth.

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> corrupt bargain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From Page 38 of the school budget:
> >
> > "....the VRS employee contribution of 5.0
> percent
> > (unchanged from FY 2011), which is also paid by
> > FCPS, results in a total FCPS contribution to
> VRS
> > of 10.16 percent in FY 2012, compared to 8.93
> > percent in FY 2011."
> >
> > FCPS pays both the employER and employEE
> > contribution for retirement - the teachers pay
> 0.
> > FCPS employees get a total of 10% of the salary
> > paid to the VRS. How long has this deal been
> > going on?
>
>
> I think this means the employee contributes 5%,and
> FCPS contributes 5% more.

No, it means that FCPS pays the whole bill. There is an 'employee' contribution, which is paid by FCPS, and a employer contribution, also paid by FCPS.

Enigma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> most
> teachers are required to attend teaching
> conferences and classes and others cert classes
> during the summer, and most times at their cost.

complete BS. a total lie. They may go to some conference that the school elects to not pay for, but it's not mandatory. Anything 'required' is paid for by FCPS.

Show us your last 5 years of tax returns.

Content Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Taxes--you get what you paid for. There a reason
> northern states like NY, NJ, and PA outperform our
> students. They pay much higher taxes which
> equates to lower student:teacher ratios, more
> attention for each students needs, etc
> Oh and their teachers are paid more......

Yes you do. Unemployment rates for the states you mention -

NY - 9.1%
NJ - 9.8%
PA - 7.9%

and VA - 5.9%.

Average property tax rate:

VA - 1.12%
NY - 1.76%
NJ - 1.78%
PA - 1.70%

And SAT scores:

VA - 512/509/495
NY - 485/499/476
NJ - 495/516/497
PA - 493/501/479

So higher taxes, higher unemployment, and lower test scores for NY, PA, and NJ. They do not outperform our students, they underperform and spend more money doing it.

read it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kardinal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > corrupt bargain Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > From Page 38 of the school budget:
> > >
> > > "....the VRS employee contribution of 5.0
> > percent
> > > (unchanged from FY 2011), which is also paid
> by
> > > FCPS, results in a total FCPS contribution to
> > VRS
> > > of 10.16 percent in FY 2012, compared to 8.93
> > > percent in FY 2011."
> > >
> > > FCPS pays both the employER and employEE
> > > contribution for retirement - the teachers
> pay
> > 0.
> > > FCPS employees get a total of 10% of the
> salary
> > > paid to the VRS. How long has this deal been
> > > going on?
> >
> >
> > I think this means the employee contributes
> 5%,and
> > FCPS contributes 5% more.
>
> No, it means that FCPS pays the whole bill. There
> is an 'employee' contribution, which is paid by
> FCPS, and a employer contribution, also paid by
> FCPS.

A bunch of years back (when annual small raises were the norm) the teachers got no salary scale raise on year and FCPS picked up the 5% for retirement. A lot of school districts in the state have done this as well. The legislature voted last year to require teachers to pay 5% of the VRS contribution and that schools give teachers a 5% raise to compensate (if the teachers did not pay in directly). In the end, the teachers actually lost a little $ because they are taxed on the 5% raise so the raise does not match the VRS deduction. State gets a little more this way, too. Costs schools around the state a bunch on $ to implement the change. Anyway, it was a stupid idea, but it was meant to make people feel better by saying the teachers are paying into their retirement.

doh!? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Enigma Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > most
> > teachers are required to attend teaching
> > conferences and classes and others cert classes
> > during the summer, and most times at their cost.
>
>
> complete BS. a total lie. They may go to some
> conference that the school elects to not pay for,
> but it's not mandatory. Anything 'required' is
> paid for by FCPS.


you are the liar. Teachers have to be re-certified every 5 years ago, and this requires they take classes. plus if they teach AP they have to take a class every few years. Sometimes school systems sponsor these classes, but many times teachers have to pay for them on their own.

You don't know what you are talking about so you should shut up. Also you shouldn't be able to vote because you are stupid.

Crabapple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doh!? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Enigma Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > most
> > > teachers are required to attend teaching
> > > conferences and classes and others cert
> classes
> > > during the summer, and most times at their
> cost.
> >
> >
> > complete BS. a total lie. They may go to some
> > conference that the school elects to not pay
> for,
> > but it's not mandatory. Anything 'required' is
> > paid for by FCPS.
>
>
> you are the liar. Teachers have to be re-certified
> every 5 years ago, and this requires they take
> classes. plus if they teach AP they have to take a
> class every few years. Sometimes school systems
> sponsor these classes, but many times teachers
> have to pay for them on their own.
>
> You don't know what you are talking about so you
> should shut up. Also you shouldn't be able to vote
> because you are stupid.


This is the big teacher union lie - 'teachers are out there spending their own time and money - it's all about the children'. Nonsense. All of the in service training offered on teacher workdays count towards re-certification. Teachers are on the clock for that and the training is paid for by FCPS. The license re-certification requirements are a joke - attending the FCPS teacher training days, mentoring a new teacher, participating in a curriculum development activity, or attending a conference. One 3 credit college course every five years gets you halfway there - with the tuition picked up by FCPS. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any items on most FCPS teacher recertitication applications that wasn't paid for by FCPS. This is like the story of the teacher that reaches into their own pocket for school supplies - which I'm sure it happens once in a while - but is far from common. Some teacher somewhere in FCPS paid out of their own pocket to attend a training class once so the answer now becomes 'teachers have to pay for their own training'.


BTW, the AP certification class is offered by FCPS locally and the tuition is covered by FCPS.

look it up, jackass--ap cert is not offered internally to any school system every year, which is why people come from all over to take it when its offered in a given subject in a given system.

Also fcps has not paid for college tuition for many years now--so you are a liar, as above.

lies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> look it up, jackass--ap cert is not offered
> internally to any school system every year, which
> is why people come from all over to take it when
> its offered in a given subject in a given system.
>
> Also fcps has not paid for college tuition for
> many years now--so you are a liar, as above.

Fascinating - so I guess the "FCPS Advanced Placement Institute", which offered certification in 25 AP topics in June, is not an internal offering. What is it then? http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/api.shtml

Also, what is this? Tuition reimbursement is back on - "The FCPS Tuition Reimbursement Program is reinstated for FY13. The program will be in effect for coursework that began after July 1, 2012, and will end by June 30, 2013."

As for this 'pay for your own training', I guess the 90 page course catalog of FCPS training classes doesn't count in your book. Of course, such fascinating courses as 'Introduction to Blogs', 'Daily Digital Images', and 'Human Relations' might make you wonder what the value of the training might be to a teacher. Take those three and you're half way to your recertification.

Nothing left to any of your arguments, is there?

Crabapple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doh!? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Enigma Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > most
> > > teachers are required to attend teaching
> > > conferences and classes and others cert
> classes
> > > during the summer, and most times at their
> cost.
> >
> >
> > complete BS. a total lie. They may go to some
> > conference that the school elects to not pay
> for,
> > but it's not mandatory. Anything 'required' is
> > paid for by FCPS.
>
>
> you are the liar. Teachers have to be re-certified
> every 5 years ago, and this requires they take
> classes. plus if they teach AP they have to take a
> class every few years. Sometimes school systems
> sponsor these classes, but many times teachers
> have to pay for them on their own.
>
> You don't know what you are talking about so you
> should shut up. Also you shouldn't be able to vote
> because you are stupid.

This can't be a teacher. Maybe someone trying to make teachers look bad but this was not written by an FCPS teacher. Most of the recertification is easily earned through FCPS in various training session during the 5 years. If you have not earned your master’s degree you have to take a graduate level class as part of the process, but FCPS even offers some of those (partnering with a stat university) for teachers at no cost. It takes time, can be a pain, but can easily be completed at no personal cost.

Now, many of us to attend additional conferences and training at our own expense, but that is our choice. We can write some of the expenses off on our taxes and earn recertification points, but we do pay for these. I have been “required” to attend a few summer meetings but I got paid hourly to do so.

Tuition reimbursement is back in a limited way for teachers, but not all may get it. This could help some teachers looking to earn advanced degrees or certify in other areas. This is good for the teacher and FCPS.


This can't be a teacher. Maybe someone trying to make teachers look bad but this is not a teacher. Most of the recertification

<< FCPS pays teachers like a McDonalds manager >>

But a McDonalds manager works 60 hour weeks without the summer off and no pension.

no lies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > look it up, jackass--ap cert is not offered
> > internally to any school system every year,
> which
> > is why people come from all over to take it
> when
> > its offered in a given subject in a given
> system.
> >
> > Also fcps has not paid for college tuition for
> > many years now--so you are a liar, as above.
>
> Fascinating - so I guess the "FCPS Advanced
> Placement Institute", which offered certification
> in 25 AP topics in June, is not an internal
> offering. What is it then?
> http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/api.shtml
>
> Also, what is this? Tuition reimbursement is back
> on - "The FCPS Tuition Reimbursement Program is
> reinstated for FY13. The program will be in effect
> for coursework that began after July 1, 2012, and
> will end by June 30, 2013."
>
> As for this 'pay for your own training', I guess
> the 90 page course catalog of FCPS training
> classes doesn't count in your book. Of course,
> such fascinating courses as 'Introduction to
> Blogs', 'Daily Digital Images', and 'Human
> Relations' might make you wonder what the value of
> the training might be to a teacher. Take those
> three and you're half way to your
> recertification.
>
> Nothing left to any of your arguments, is there?


Actually, you are making the arguments for me. If tuition reimbursement is 'back on' that means it was off. Which means teachers were paying for it out of their packets if they didn't 'introduction to blogs'

Also, the summer institute is not given in any one school system in every subject every year--which is what i said. if you are up for recertification for AP you have to find a place to take it. Loudon pays for you to take it elsewhere. FCPS does not.

Maybe you should have paid more attention in school when you were getting it for free

Crabapple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually, you are making the arguments for me. If
> tuition reimbursement is 'back on' that means it
> was off. Which means teachers were paying for it
> out of their packets...

No, it means that IF they took graduate classes they would have paid for it themselves. Something tells me that once it was no longer offered free of charge, the number of teachers taking graduate classes dropped rather dramatically.

Depends on the situation. If the teacher already has a Master's, for licensure reasons there's no real incentive to take additional graduate classes save for any individual need to get more education. If the teacher has a BA, then they have to take a graduate level class before acquiring their next license so they will be taking grad classes whether FCPS pays for it or not.

no lies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crabapple Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Actually, you are making the arguments for me.
> If
> > tuition reimbursement is 'back on' that means
> it
> > was off. Which means teachers were paying for
> it
> > out of their packets...
>
> No, it means that IF they took graduate classes
> they would have paid for it themselves. Something
> tells me that once it was no longer offered free
> of charge, the number of teachers taking graduate
> classes dropped rather dramatically.

Crabapple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Maybe you should have paid more attention in
> school when you were getting it for free

Public school is not 'free'. Taxes are taken from property owners to pay for schools. Nothing that the government provides is 'free' - or, in the words of Milton Friedman - to spend is to tax.

You should like FCPS, they help keep our real estate values up so that poor people can't afford to live here.

damuri Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should like FCPS, they help keep our real
> estate values up so that poor people can't afford
> to live here.


FCPS really has nothing to do with it.

The federal government has become a jobs program for underperforming minorities, so all of the educated people necessary to run government functions are now in government contracting. They've settled in FFX, and in general are better educated and better compensated than the general public. They not only have to do the work of government, they have to do it against the drag of people who now comprise the government. (The underperforming minorities are all in PG).

These educated people mate and reproduce, and send their offspring to FFX schools. Despite crappy infrastructure and mediocre teachers, these students excel in FCPS because of their genetic makeup and parental involvement. FCPS can influence on the margins, just as the teachers in PG can influence what they have coming in the doors only on the margin. But for the most part, FCPS's 'achievement' is a result of circumstance, not efforts.

Reality wrote: <> and then argues that the compensation is too generous....

When teachers chose the field, they chose based on both the work they wanted to do, helping our children learn--and the overall compensation package which was established by our elected representatives. DO you even know who is ON the School board? If not, then any problems you see in how the schools are managed can be blamed on folks like YOU more than on the teachers.

The BEST PAID teachers get about 80% of the median income for the county. If you add 10 % for retirement, that brings them up to about 94% of Average....I would not call this a free ride. Their job is as challenging as any other in the county, and more challenging than many. They get time off when we want our children to be home for the holidays. They do not control those policies any more than you do the ones at your job...Let's stop blaming teachers for decisions of politicians.

LOL! master's in teaching. C'mon... below average IQ is quite common in your field. Try to find that in engineering... you can't. Case Closed; you're compensated. p.s.... try working 70 hours a week every week for decades and then you'll know what it's like to work a hard job. When you get out at 2:15, think about that one.

mr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>try working 70 hours a week
> every week for decades and then you'll know what
> it's like to work a hard job.

If you don't like it, go get a different job. You knew what you were getting into when you took your 70 hour a week position.

Trying getting a job without knowing how to read or write and then you can start talking about the value of English Teachers.

No sense in trying to debate facts with tools like "corrupt bargain". He's a shit stirrer and obviously, upset with the fact that he didn't get an advanced degree and teaching certificate to make so little money teaching school, he will whine and bitch about every benefit you get. He doesn't care if Fairfax County's schools go second rate, so what if home values plummet and businesses stay away, he couldn't care less. All he cares about is a "level playing field," That means, he wants to bring everything down to his level because he's too narrow minded and cheap to support a quality school system. Yeah, there are many posters in this forum shrieking his same brand of BS. Keep on whining and gnashing your teeth.

just the way it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> damuri Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You should like FCPS, they help keep our real
> > estate values up so that poor people can't
> afford
> > to live here.
>
>
> FCPS really has nothing to do with it.
>
> The federal government has become a jobs program
> for underperforming minorities, so all of the
> educated people necessary to run government
> functions are now in government contracting.
> They've settled in FFX, and in general are better
> educated and better compensated than the general
> public. They not only have to do the work of
> government, they have to do it against the drag of
> people who now comprise the government. (The
> underperforming minorities are all in PG).
>
> These educated people mate and reproduce, and send
> their offspring to FFX schools. Despite crappy
> infrastructure and mediocre teachers, these
> students excel in FCPS because of their genetic
> makeup and parental involvement. FCPS can
> influence on the margins, just as the teachers in
> PG can influence what they have coming in the
> doors only on the margin. But for the most part,
> FCPS's 'achievement' is a result of circumstance,
> not efforts.

+1000

Typical commentary for somebody who voted for the likes of a Ken Cuccinelli. Keep telling yourself the quality of schools doesn't matter and keep spreading the hate and intolerance of your views. You can end up like Cuccinelli, in the unemployment line, where you belong.

Then stop complaining and teach. I have accrued $50k in student loans for this job...any benefit I receive was earned with years and years of hard work. If all of our hard work doesn't come with a few perks then what's he point of the so-called American Dream?

corrupt bargain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Page 38 of the school budget:
>
> "....the VRS employee contribution of 5.0 percent
> (unchanged from FY 2011), which is also paid by
> FCPS, results in a total FCPS contribution to VRS
> of 10.16 percent in FY 2012, compared to 8.93
> percent in FY 2011."
>
> FCPS pays both the employER and employEE
> contribution for retirement - the teachers pay 0.
> FCPS employees get a total of 10% of the salary
> paid to the VRS. How long has this deal been
> going on?

Is this still the case?