I am trying to find a quality winter swim team. Have heard and seen quite a few good things about CUBU and MACH. Would like to know more about the Potomac Marlins and the MAKOS.

Thanks

I swam for NVSL (summer swim) for 12 years and did a number of Winter swim programs including:

Solitar
York Swim Club
FISH

I'd recommend all of them.

I've never heard of CUBU or MACH but have heard good things about MAKOS.

Really it all comes down to the coach. You could sign up with a fantastic organization but if the coach running your child's practices isn't watching and improving their stroke it'll be useless.

Pick the one that meets at your closest local REC center. Driving the kids around 3x a week to a far-away place is a pain in the ass.

CUBU has an excellent program, MAKOS not bad, Marlins has steadily declined over the last few years. I would start out with anybody to see if your kid is going to be dedicated. If you and your kid are going to stick it out switch to CUBU or RMSC, depending where you live. They are the only to local teams that put out quality swimmers.

Curl-Burke (CUBU), Sea Devil Swimming (SDS), Makos, The Machine and now Shark Tank Racing Squad are all good clubs. All are USA swim Clubs. Depends on the level of your swimmer and the type of coach your swimmers works best with. Coaching styles vary greatly.

How old is your child? Most winter swim programs offer different levels depending on age and how competitive your swimmer is. Our kids did Makos a few years ago. We didn't feel they got any real stroke work, so they are now swimming with CUBU. CUBU is more intense but their swimming has really improved.I have one swimmer who loves this sport and swims 5 times a week. Another is doing 3 days.

I have a swimmer with the Marlins and there is little to no technique being taught. We are seriously considering CUBU even though the drive would be a bit further. We chose the Marlins just to get a feel for winter swim and they have a practice facility close to home. I don't think the coaches are really held accountable. The Marlins picked up a coach from CUBU and everybody was excited, at CUBU he seemed to turn out some quality swimmers. Since coming to the Marlins he has a whole differnt attitude, for the worse. I would not reccomend the Marlins to a serious swimmer. Basically for fun and exercise.

Shark Tank is fantastic. Your swimmer needs to try out though.

Thanks but no thanks on the Shark Tank. From what I have seen and heard about the Shark Tank parents I would not want to be a part of that and, at the last meet we were at with them they were not that impressive in the water.

Swim Taxi Too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks but no thanks on the Shark Tank. From what
> I have seen and heard about the Shark Tank parents
> I would not want to be a part of that and, at the
> last meet we were at with them they were not that
> impressive in the water.

What does that mean?

I guess it means she doesn't like Shark Tank.. and that she listens to rumors. Every club differs to some degree. ST is new, small and offers personal training and a small coach to swimmer ratio. You won't see 15 swimmers in one lane having to walk half the way in pratitice. If you like a huge club with name recognition then CUBU is where I'd go.

Where are the Shark Tank practice facilities, how new are they?

Thanks

Sanctioned by USASwim one and a half years ago. Most practices at Sport and Health in Occoquan (not the most convenient, but we car pool). Lee Rec for special practices before meets and South Run for additional/make up practices x1/week.

STRS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess it means she doesn't like Shark Tank.. and
> that she listens to rumors. Every club differs to
> some degree. ST is new, small and offers personal
> training and a small coach to swimmer ratio. You
> won't see 15 swimmers in one lane having to walk
> half the way in pratitice. If you like a huge
> club with name recognition then CUBU is where I'd
> go.

Ok...rumors aside, this is what I have witnessed...Rude, clique yentas in the stands and less than impressive times.

OK, that's the parents. What can you tell me about the Shark Tank coaches?

Hey guess who commenter STRS is? Shark Tank Racing Squad - not very honest about their comments -

Yeah, I figured that was a Shark Tank promo person. I wouldn't wish Lance Page (STRS head coach) on my worst enemy. The definition of slimy. His assistant Patty Friedman is a wack job too.

Wow. You caught me. STRS=Shark Tank Racing Squad. Didn't offer my experience or opinion for Sterling to start saying hateful such things about good people. I'm sure many people have many opinions about many coaches....that's usually what draws people to or away from any team. Nice of you to get started on such a positive note.

STRS-you said in a previous post you have to try out. Is that to make the team or to see what practice group you will be placed with? I think the less than impressive times I have seen at the meets speaks for itself as a reflection upon the coaches.

FISH is an excellent team, so is MAKOS. Stay very far away from Shark Tank. Those rumors are true and they are horrible!

We've had a fantastic experience at Shark Tank. I love the challenge for my swimmers and the fact that even at a young age they do long course. Lots of younger swimmers who love the sport and are full of team spirit and support for their team members. The owner is a great lady (not the assistant) with a passion for the sport and a heart of gold. We get many, many compliments from other great teams. I know better than to listen to rumors because of team rivalry, but really, we have been welcomed everywhere we go and it's nice to swim against the big name clubs like CUBU, The Machine, and Makos because our team is new and small and also to participate in huge meets like the Tom Dolan.

The Tank parents and kids are nice, but the 2 main coaches, very untrustworthy and not well respected by other teams - big blowhards. I think the lady has no swimming background at all - just marketing..i heard they let the really fast kids swim free to get their name out..

No team rivalry here, just observations..

Both have extensive swimming backgrounds.

No they don't! The FISH coaches, MAKOS coaches, and Machine coaches are so much more knowledgeable and experienced! The Potomac Marlins coaches are horrible too!
Shark Tank coaches are scary, rude, inexperienced, and they lie. Keep your children away from them! In fact, the FISH coaches have coached Olympic swimmers and most of their team attends the Olympic time trials.

I see someone is a bit resentful of the new team on the block. Pity you let your anger get to you like that.

Swim Family 2011--what do the shark tank coaches lie about?

Swim Family 2011 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No they don't! The FISH coaches, MAKOS coaches,
> and Machine coaches are so much more knowledgeable
> and experienced! The Potomac Marlins coaches are
> horrible too!
> Shark Tank coaches are scary, rude, inexperienced,
> and they lie. Keep your children away from them!
> In fact, the FISH coaches have coached Olympic
> swimmers and most of their team attends the
> Olympic time trials.

We are considering the Marlins....could you give me more info.

I have five children, all who swam with USA teams and NVSL teams for the last 23 years. I speak from experience and knowledge, certainly no anger here, no need for defensiveness. I am usually at every USA swim meet in the Washington DC area, and spend every saturday during the summer at an NVSL meet. I have spoken at great length with many coaches, team reps, parents, and swimmers. Again, I speak from experience and knowledge.
If I were to recommend a USA winter swim team to a family, I would recommend that families interview coaches, parents, and swimmers from each team to see which team will best suit their family, most importantly their child. I would recommend in this order:
1. Fish
2. Makos
3. Machine
4. York

I would stay away from:
1. Potomac Marlins (inexperienced and unqualified coaches with poor behavior at meets)
2. Curl Burke (too big, coaches with poor behavior at meets)

I would stay very far away from:
1. Shark Tank (incompetent and unqualified coaches who behave poorly at meets)
I think another poster on this thread said it best, that shark tank is best at marketing themselves.
Again, experience and knowledge, no anger.
All the best to you and your swimmer. The important thing is that the child have fun, and enjoy what they do, because they have to do a lot of swimming for these programs!
2.

I've "heard" the same negativity about all the teams including the Fish. We went with SDS and like it.

Shark Tank has several top notch swimmers including a PV Zone Team swimmer and a few who consistently fimish in the top 10 of all PV. There are many up and coming swimmers on the team. For a team with only 30 swimmers, I'd say its pretty good. I know teams with 300 swimmers and NO top 10's. Also the Head Coach/Owner is an Olympic medalist.

I also have been involved in USA Swimming and NVSL for 10 years and have 4 swimmers.

Tried to Google the coach of shark tank and olympics - don't find anything - what sport and when?

I was looking at some of the top times in the country and the two main PVS teams were RMSC and CUBU. It is hard to get a good mix of location, practice times, coaches etc....We are inbetween Burke, Cub Run and Oak Marr. The Marlins have the schedule we could easily do but....Nobody on here really seems to have anything good to say. I think their web site says they have been a swim team for over 15 years and Bill and Barry Marlin were accomplished swimmers in college but, how much coaching do they actually do with the up and coming swimmers. Seems like a lot of people only want to deal with the high school kids. I guess it's because they really dont have to coach, just tell them to swim laps. Thanks for all the input from everybody......we are still searching.

Here's the only info I can find on the team

http://www.pvswim.org/pvs_club.htm#TANK

The only Olympic athletes with last name of "Page" on teamusa.org website are Adam Page/US Paralympic team and Robart Page/USA Volleyball. Nothing about a Lance Page so maybe Mr. Shark Tank coach changed his name or is not being truthful.

My swim coaches have always been open and honest about their backgrounds - would be a BIG RED FLAG if a coach/owner lied about being in the olympics!! What a loser...

sk8brd dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only Olympic athletes with last name of "Page"
> on teamusa.org website are Adam Page/US Paralympic
> team and Robart Page/USA Volleyball. Nothing
> about a Lance Page so maybe Mr. Shark Tank coach
> changed his name or is not being truthful.

Interesting

Or someone misunderstood. I mean really, lie about THAT?

There's just something not right about that team, starting with its "coaches."

Did you try the Special Olympics page? Maybe his medal is there?
I heard some pretty horrible things about the Shark Tank coaches from the Rolling Hills swim team rep and coaches. Maybe you should talk to them before signing up with them. i swim on Curle Burke and really like it! I'm going to swim for Case Western next year!

swimgirl11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you try the Special Olympics page? Maybe his
> medal is there?
> I heard some pretty horrible things about the
> Shark Tank coaches from the Rolling Hills swim
> team rep and coaches. Maybe you should talk to
> them before signing up with them. i swim on Curle
> Burke and really like it! I'm going to swim for
> Case Western next year!

Swimgirl-Have you swam with other clubs? If so would you list the pros vs. cons? If you could change something about the CUBU program what would it be?

Fly MoM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> swimgirl11 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Did you try the Special Olympics page? Maybe
> his
> > medal is there?
> > I heard some pretty horrible things about the
> > Shark Tank coaches from the Rolling Hills swim
> > team rep and coaches. Maybe you should talk to
> > them before signing up with them. i swim on
> Curle
> > Burke and really like it! I'm going to swim for
> > Case Western next year!
>
> Swimgirl-Have you swam with other clubs? If so
> would you list the pros vs. cons? If you could
> change something about the CUBU program what would
> it be?

Ah HA! And there it is people. The truth behind the not-so-anonymous hate and bashing. Laurel Hills a little pissed because their coaches left to go to another pool, swimmers followed their coaches, and that pool's (Brandywine) swim team never lost a meet in 2010??? Yup! There certainly is "something about those coaches" I'd say.

Hey swimgirl, got something against the Special Olympics? Shame on you.

BrandyWIN!!!!!!!!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Ah HA! And there it is people. The truth behind
> the not-so-anonymous hate and bashing. Laurel
> Hills a little pissed because their coaches left
> to go to another pool, swimmers followed their
> coaches, and that pool's (Brandywine) swim team
> never lost a meet in 2010??? Yup! There
> certainly is "something about those coaches" I'd
> say.
>
> Hey swimgirl, got something against the Special
> Olympics? Shame on you.

Who said anything about Laurel Hills? Swimgirl11 only mentioned ROLLING HILLS. How many teams did those Shark Tank coaches piss off anyway and why are they lying about being in the Olympics?

Laurel Hills, Rolling Hills whatEVA

My coaches at Makos have been awesome! I agree with some of the posters above--don't get in the Shark Tank.

From what i heard, there will be a mass exodus of Brandywine families leaving the pool if the shark tank coaches return this summer. Theya re certainly not the reason the team did so well these past few years.

BrandyWIN!!!!!!!!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ah HA! And there it is people. The truth behind
> the not-so-anonymous hate and bashing. Laurel
> Hills a little pissed because their coaches left
> to go to another pool, swimmers followed their
> coaches, and that pool's (Brandywine) swim team
> never lost a meet in 2010??? Yup! There
> certainly is "something about those coaches" I'd
> say.
>
Don't be so pompous Brandywine. Our team was also undefeated last summer and we didn't have to import swimmers or fradulent coaches from Shark Tank to do it!

poor brandywine, their going to lose a mass of their swimmers, as if we at MW and our issue with CP wasnt enough to deal with already......speaking of which anyone know when division seeding takes place?!? i just want to know! ;)

A random swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> poor brandywine, their going to lose a mass of
> their swimmers, as if we at MW and our issue with
> CP wasnt enough to deal with already......speaking
> of which anyone know when division seeding takes
> place?!? i just want to know! ;)

NVSL Division Seeding is Sunday, Feb. 27 at 2pm. Who's MW and what's CP?

honestly, i am a high school swimmer. who has swam all around. machine and curle burke is the best choice if your serious about swimming. fish used to be excellent but many of their quality swimmers and coaches has left. marlins, shark tank, sea devils are all awful teams. they have ruined many of my friends strokes teaching the wrong technique leading to a tear in my friends shoulder requiring intensive physical rehab. please for the sake of your child and the success of their child please choose curle burke or machine!

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> honestly, i am a high school swimmer. who has swam
> all around. machine and curle burke is the best
> choice if your serious about swimming. fish used
> to be excellent but many of their quality swimmers
> and coaches has left. marlins, shark tank, sea
> devils are all awful teams. they have ruined many
> of my friends strokes teaching the wrong technique
> leading to a tear in my friends shoulder requiring
> intensive physical rehab. please for the sake of
> your child and the success of their child please
> choose curle burke or machine!

That is pretty scary to think a coach could be so ignorant that they could teach a swimmer something that could actually end their swim career.

I heard on facebook tht all the kids at brandywine did a petition to have thier real hd coaches return ths smmr with out the shark tank people! that they are not wanted back there eiother!
The shark tank coaches areally aren't coaches - they just say they are and dnt realy have olympic medal.
My high shool coach also says stay away from them.

Ya know, I have to laugh at most of what is posted above. Most of what is written about all the above mentioned clubs is not very factual. Sounds like one bad experience and someone walks away spreading negative rumors about a former club. I own the Potomac Marlins and I personally know all of the coaches you are blasting above. You're all talking out your butts! Let me clear up a few things for everyone.

1) No club is perfect, including RMSC and CUBU. No matter what you hear, every club has issues with coaches and parents. Every club has great coaches, good coaches and weaker coaches. Every club has pain in the ass parents that cause many of the issues you all hear about. They want to think they know better. Some of these parents actually take their kids to swim practice on their own to try and work on their kids strokes and often times they do more harm than good even though their intentions are noble...Let your coaches coach! If you have issues, TALK to your childs Coach and try to work it out before leaving and spreading negative rumors.

2) Every club at the age group level is teaching the same things. Some do it better than others but almost every club out there is similar in what they are doing with kids 10 & Under. Go talk with the coach and watch a few workouts to see if the program is a good fit for your child. If you think it is, have your child participate in a few workouts. Do this with 2-3 different clubs, then make your decision. Please don't listen to some bone head on a blog with an ax to grind!

3) Where the separation of clubs occurs is at the Senior level. After all, aren't your kids in the sport for the long haul? Some of the above mentioned clubs have their age group kids swimming too much too soon and although they can produce fast age group swimmers, these same swimmers often get burnt out very early and quit the sport. If your 12 year old is swimming 2 hours a day 6 days a week (which some of these young kids are doing in some above mentioned clubs) what are they going to do when they are senior swimmers and really need to train that much to keep improving? Some kids are swimming more in High School than they are allowed to swim in college...what do you think will happen to that athlete when they go off and swim in college doing less work than they did in High School? 9 times out of 10 they get slower...what fun is there in that? Choose a club that has your child's best interest at heart and is more conerned about your child improving every year vs. getting everything they can as early as they can to boost a coaches ego and then they get forgotten about as they get older and slower. It happens and is something parents don't think about. Potomac Marlins and Machine are both great clubs in this regard. (there are others too)

4) To clarify some of the above comments re: Potomac Marlins...If you did your homework you would know that Potomac Marlins has sent 4 swimmers to Olympic Trials, 5 swimmers to USA Senior Nationals, over 30 swimmers to Jr. Nationals and Sectionls both. So how can you say that Potomac Marlins does not produce quality swimmers? Do your homework before bashing my clubs quality please.

The CUBU Coach that started coaching with us 10 years ago has gotten better not worse and his swimmers absolutly love him. The kids are his primary concern and he teaches great stroke technique. He can be a little rough around the edges at times but no one can question his integrity! I can say the same about the rest of my staff as well.

Questionable coach behavior on deck at meets?? Are you kidding me? My staff is one of the most knowledgable and well respected out there. This is not me saying that, this is what I am being told by fellow PVS coaches! If you knew what I know about some questionalble coach behavior on one of the above mentioned "Best Clubs" you'd pull your kids out and get as far away as you could. Many clubs and many sports have their skeletons in the closet that just are not public knowledge yet.

The Marlins are a technique oriented club. Yes, we did drift away from that several years ago at two of our locations but the sign of a great club and leader is recognizing that and making changes. I did this. My staff is one of the better staff's in the entire area now. I addressed these concerns with my staff and my team parents and the changes have been made and things are way better. We are once again producing top quality age group swimmers with great looking strokes and a committment to their long term success in the sport.

PM has an extreemly LOW incidence of injury. 99.9 % of all injuries reported to our staff have stemmed from other sports related injuries or school gym class, NOT from swimming with poor technique. Again, unknowledgible parents making assumptions. Get your facts straight before commenting publicaly.

Someone mentioned above that my club has fallen off over the years. This was true but it is not true now. Did you all know that CUBU really fell off when Rick Curl left his club several years ago for Austrailia? He recognized that and came home and fixed things. It happens, even to the best of us. Again, we corrected it and are once again a leader in PVS.

Please, do your homework and don't get your info from a bone head on a blog.

If you are looking for a year round USA Swim club, go visit them, talk with them, try them out and make your own decisions and form your own opinions. There are many good clubs with good coaches out there. Trust me, The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

If you are looking into Potomac Marlins, call me and we can talk. My contact info is on our team website at www.potomacmarlins.com

Bill, do you handle the admin side of things or do you coach too?

Mosby woods and crosspointe, its an upper division thing. and thank you for telling me :)

FlyMom

Yes, I do both. Happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you, Bill. Always a pleasure seeing you on deck.

Hy fly mom - all in all - you would be best at watching the practices of the teams you are interested in - from afar, so they don't know you are there and you can see how they really work with the kids. Then, interview the coaches and have your child talk to them too. Make sure the locations are convenient for your family, because they have to go there a lot. You want it to be the best experience for your child. Still, I'd stay away from shark tank. They have not had positive experiences and say their coach has an olympic medal when he doesn't, and there's a lot of negative out there about them. Best to you!

The only negatives are you and your many (transparent) aliases on this thread.

Bill, I was looking at the web site and I see you have a stroke work shop comming up. Is teaching technique not part of the practices?

Back again to clarify that the "Brandywin!!!" poster appears to be the shark tank coach - and after looking at nvsl records, Brandywine was undefeated the year before they arrived..

they seem to becoming angrier, and still no clarity on the olympics boast...

hmmmmm....

I agree, learn as much as you can, talk to parents both pro and con, watch practices and how the coaches interact and teach, and listen to your kids - the right fit is out there -

No STRS coach boasted about an olympic medal. Not very "fair" to make assertions, is it, fair judge ? Someone has their information wrong. Happens a lot in these forums. You'll notice all posts in support of STRS have not supported that claim either. So, fairjudge, swimmer, swim girl and all your other personalities, please shut up because I'm just not sure I can resist posting "facts" about your coaches much longer. Oh, and I have better sources than Facebook.

Swim Family 2011 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I would stay away from:
> 1. Potomac Marlins (inexperienced and unqualified
> coaches with poor behavior at meets)
> 2. Curl Burke (too big, coaches with poor behavior
> at meets)
>
> I would stay very far away from:
> 1. Shark Tank (incompetent and unqualified coaches
> who behave poorly at meets)
> I think another poster on this thread said it
> best, that shark tank is best at marketing
> themselves.
> Again, experience and knowledge, no anger.
> All the best to you and your swimmer. The
> important thing is that the child have fun, and
> enjoy what they do, because they have to do a lot
> of swimming for these programs!
> 2.

I can honestly say I have not witnessed any bad behavior at meets from any of the Marlin coaches. The Marlins do run a well organized meet.

Thanks for the informative post by Bill Marlin of the Potomac Marlins. Does Shark Tank have a website where people can get info about the team, coaching philosophy, and coaches backgrounds?

Of course they don't have a web site. STRS (who is probably Patty) is a litle defensive herebecasue thr are actually several ppl on this list who agree that anyone who wants a good winter swim program should stay away from the shark tank. They intrude on and ruin the atmosphere of summer swim clubs just to get lane time for their team. Really, they should just leave NVSL alone.

No website is a bad sign. What is Shark Tank Racing Squad trying to hide? Maybe that Patty Friedman has no swimming background? They take over NVSL summer swim teams to market themselves and their own year-round swimmers.

Something is weird with these shark tank coaches if they don't give their background, makes you wonder what is there to hide? all flash no substance..

SpongeBob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No website is a bad sign. What is Shark Tank
> Racing Squad trying to hide? Maybe that Patty
> Friedman has no swimming background? They take
> over NVSL summer swim teams to market themselves
> and their own year-round swimmers.


Which NVSL teams?

curious> Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SpongeBob Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No website is a bad sign. What is Shark Tank
> > Racing Squad trying to hide? Maybe that Patty
> > Friedman has no swimming background? They take
> > over NVSL summer swim teams to market
> themselves
> > and their own year-round swimmers.
>
>
> Which NVSL teams?

See posts above or talk to current/former coaches of these NVSL teams: Laurel Hills, Rolling Hills, and Brandywine

How exactly does one take over an NVSL team? The club hires and can fire the coach. At best you'll get one bad season, and the poor coach will be gone.

Shark Tank has nothing to hide. All of their inforamtion is right there on the PVS website, so you don't need to continuously post names and phone numbers on the Internet. Oh wait, you do that because you have a PERSONAL ax to grind and here you can hide behind anonymity. Shark Tank does not have a website because they don't need to advertise. Their mission is to keep their team small.

It seems like Shark Tank has rubbed a lot of posters here the wrong way. If they have nothing to hide, what is the background of the coaches and why do they keep jumping around to different NVSL teams?

how exactly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How exactly does one take over an NVSL team? The
> club hires and can fire the coach. At best you'll
> get one bad season, and the poor coach will be
> gone.

Bad coaches dont go away if rents in charge dont listen to us swimmers.

here's what i hrd happnd at b-wine: the new swim tm rep at b-wine has absolutely no idea how to do the job so she got the shark "coachs" to do all the work for her. She drove away the team of real coaches who were there for 5 years that took the team to two undefeated seasons and moving up 2 division (without shark coachs). the kids of b-wine did a petition wanting themback but the new swim team rep wants the sharks because she's trouble just like they are. they dont want the sharks at b-wine either! nvrmnd what they did at rolling hills..

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
nvrmnd what they did at
> rolling hills..

What did they do at rolling hills?

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> here's what i hrd happnd at b-wine: the new swim
> tm rep at b-wine has absolutely no idea how to do
> the job so she got the shark "coachs" to do all
> the work for her. She drove away the team of real
> coaches who were there for 5 years that took the
> team to two undefeated seasons and moving up 2
> division (without shark coachs). the kids of
> b-wine did a petition wanting themback but the new
> swim team rep wants the sharks because she's
> trouble just like they are. they dont want the
> sharks at b-wine either! nvrmnd what they did at
> rolling hills..


My word, that is a lot of drama for Division 13.

just a parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> swimmer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > here's what i hrd happnd at b-wine: the new
> swim
> > tm rep at b-wine has absolutely no idea how to
> do
> > the job so she got the shark "coachs" to do all
> > the work for her. She drove away the team of
> real
> > coaches who were there for 5 years that took
> the
> > team to two undefeated seasons and moving up 2
> > division (without shark coachs). the kids of
> > b-wine did a petition wanting themback but the
> new
> > swim team rep wants the sharks because she's
> > trouble just like they are. they dont want the
> > sharks at b-wine either! nvrmnd what they did
> at
> > rolling hills..
>
>
> My word, that is a lot of drama for Division 13.

My kids pool hires a head coach. All assistant coaches come from the pool - they are members children in HS and College and swim/swam with the team. That means the Head Coach is supervising the members kids as his/her assistants. No very fair to the head coach I'll admit, but a greate feedback mechanism. The idea of turning over a program to coaching company (any) just doesn't seem like a very good idea to me for NVSL. It's also only a 1 year contract - always up for evaluation.

my suggestion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> My kids pool hires a head coach. All assistant
> coaches come from the pool - they are members
> children in HS and College and swim/swam with the
> team. That means the Head Coach is supervising
> the members kids as his/her assistants. No very
> fair to the head coach I'll admit, but a greate
> feedback mechanism. The idea of turning over a
> program to coaching company (any) just doesn't
> seem like a very good idea to me for NVSL. It's
> also only a 1 year contract - always up for
> evaluation.

Good suggestion. I think kids would rather be coached by their older teammates or former teammates any day rather than some adult coach who doesn't even know them. NVSL should ban professional coaches.

I'm ok with professional coaches, but not coaching companies.

I see that in my kids other sports - the best, most enjoyable sports have heavy parent involvement, and the most drama filled have the professional coaching companies involved. If you need a professional coach, hire them individually.

willow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like Shark Tank has rubbed a lot of
> posters here the wrong way. If they have nothing
> to hide, what is the background of the coaches and
> why do they keep jumping around to different NVSL
> teams?

Not really Willow, at least I don't think so. We're a very small team of 35 swimmers. I'm pretty sure most of the nasty posts have come from one person....who runs their mouth non stop.

IM mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my suggestion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > My kids pool hires a head coach. All assistant
> > coaches come from the pool - they are members
> > children in HS and College and swim/swam with
> the
> > team. That means the Head Coach is supervising
> > the members kids as his/her assistants. No
> very
> > fair to the head coach I'll admit, but a greate
> > feedback mechanism. The idea of turning over a
> > program to coaching company (any) just doesn't
> > seem like a very good idea to me for NVSL.
> It's
> > also only a 1 year contract - always up for
> > evaluation.
>
> Good suggestion. I think kids would rather be
> coached by their older teammates or former
> teammates any day rather than some adult coach who
> doesn't even know them. NVSL should ban
> professional coaches.

I have always had a hard time figuring out why people take NVSL all that seriously. A summer league... the most anyone swims in a meet that matters is a 50 (ignoring the exhibition 100 IM's).

NVSL should be mostly for fun,comradery,to enjoy the spirit of competition, and maybe a little bit of bragging rights. But instead people (parents by-and-large) make it out to be such a big deal it takes on a life of its own and of far more importance than it really deserves. And then there are places like Chesterbrook, Overlee, Crosspointe,etc. good grief. And VAC - they didn't come close to winning a meet but their pride probably won't allow them to accept being bumped out of Div. 1.

I guess the drama isn't limited to Div. 13.

just a parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
And then
> there are places like Chesterbrook, Overlee,
> Crosspointe,etc. good grief.

I'll share a story from a few years ago.

Chesterbrook has two pools. I was working as an official on a B meet on a visiting team. The Chesterbrook team is huge, and for whatever reasons we did not have many swimmers at that particular B meet. Of course, the meet went on forever, since the majority of Chesterbrook only ever swims in B meets.

It was late, I was there alone with my kids, and I was, as I said, officiating. I could not leave, but I was getting a little tired of doing nothing but working for the Chesterbrook kids. My kids were done swimming, so I told them to go swim in the second pool they have while I finished working the meet.

As soon as my kids hit the water in the other pool, the lifeguards came over to throw them out - no visiting team kids allowed to swim in the second pool. It was close to 9PM, they still had 20 parents from the visiting team helping finish for pretty much just their swimmers, and they would not let our kids swim in the second pool? My kids have been in NVSL a while, and that had to be the most obnoxious, unmannerly thing I think I've ever seen.

Thankfully we have not been there since, but I will never go back there - they have no class whatsoever.

my suggestion Wrote:
--
> My kids pool hires a head coach. All assistant
> coaches come from the pool - they are members
> children in HS and College and swim/swam with the
> team. That means the Head Coach is supervising
> the members kids as his/her assistants. No very
> fair to the head coach I'll admit, but a greate
> feedback mechanism. The idea of turning over a
> program to coaching company (any) just doesn't
> seem like a very good idea to me for NVSL. It's
> also only a 1 year contract - always up for
> evaluation.

A head coach and a few assistant coaches---that's all an NVSL team needs. This is not the Olympics folks.

Michael Phelps Wrote:
>
> A head coach and a few assistant coaches---that's
> all an NVSL team needs. This is not the Olympics
> folks.

That's awesome that Michael Phelps decided to visit Fairfax Underground! You should straighten out those brandywhiners who think they need shark tank coaches to compete in the NVSL.

I am a Brandywine mom and the sharks are NOT welcome back. The new swim team rep loves them and is the only one who wants them. Our previous coaches were Wonderful and leading the team for the past four years to 2 undefeated seasons, developing the swimmers as they grew. They were a great team of coaches who grew up swimming in our community. and Now the new rep and the sharks are ruining the team and the pool . Many families are not returning because of the new team rep and the sharks. The sharks were the worst thing that happened to brandywine.

That is unbelievable!

Brandywine mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a Brandywine mom and the sharks are NOT
> welcome back. The new swim team rep loves them and
> is the only one who wants them. Our previous
> coaches were Wonderful and leading the team for
> the past four years to 2 undefeated seasons,
> developing the swimmers as they grew. They were a
> great team of coaches who grew up swimming in our
> community. and Now the new rep and the sharks are
> ruining the team and the pool . Many families are
> not returning because of the new team rep and the
> sharks. The sharks were the worst thing that
> happened to brandywine.

Oh, please! Liar, Liar, pants on fire.

The Chesterbrook parents who are "timers" at their "A" meets habitually "err" in favor of their team.

Yes, I know that there are timers from the opponent on each lane also, but for the lanes that have 2 Chesterbrook times for the opposing swimmer, they definitely stop their watches late to inflate the times (middle time is recorded as official), and in the lanes with Chesterbrook swimmers and one Chesterbrook timer, that timer's watch is ALWAYS the fastest time, such that the next fastest (the faster of the two opponent's watches) will be official.

Never seen that with any other team in three seasons of D1 swimming. You would think that these people would realize that when their kids went to real swim meets, the electronic timers do not allow skewing of results!

Phelps would not be a welcomed coach at BWine unless he would toe the line with rep. True. We had great coaches and a fun team. Now we have unrest and families actually leaving the entire pool due to swim team stuff. 2 things happened before the issues arose. New rep and Tank coaches. Not hard to figure out.

Makes no sense to change coaches from consecutive winning seasons, not to mention they were fine members of the community who the kids loved and they grew up with the pool. A great example of a bad pool board, worse team rep and a few loud mouths who care nothing about the children, and who publicly lambaste perfectly good people. Thanks shark tank!

I have swam at Brandywine for many years, and it used to be by favorite part of the summer. We had really nice and fun coaches from the neighborhood, who were in high school or college. Last year, the new team rep decided to hire some annoying coaches from shark tank, who do not even live in our neighborhood. I think they are liars who do not know what they are doing, and I have personally witnessed them trying to recruit some of our swimmers for their Shark Tank team. They messed up our swim team, and brought in new swimmers (who not live in our area either), who broke several team records from 30 years ago. This summer, they are hiring another new coach, and our old coaches (who had swam on the team themselves), are not coming back. Yeah, I wonder why.

Brandywine mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a Brandywine mom and the sharks are NOT
> welcome back. The new swim team rep loves them and
> is the only one who wants them.

The new team rep also happens to be on the Brandywine pool board so it's no surprise that the Shark Tank coaches were rehired. The Shark Tank coaches will be "Stroke Mechanics Coaches" and "Team Managers" along with a high school coach from another pool that the kids don't know who will be a "Core Workout Coach" and an assistant who will help with the developmental team. The longtime tradition of hiring high school/college head coaches from the neighborhood and keeping the best interests of the kids in mind has sadly disappeared, along with team spirit.

Fly MoM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill, I was looking at the web site and I see you
> have a stroke work shop comming up. Is teaching
> technique not part of the practices?

Hmmm......lack of response is making me wonder

Whoever you are, this is absolutely no lie. It is the truth, and yes, many, many, many people, especially at Brandywine, believe that the new swim team rep, the shark people, all need to go away because of all the horrible things they have done to the fine people in our community. Not just one person here, it appears there are many.

BrandyWIN!! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Oh, please! Liar, Liar, pants on fire.

This poster is probably a Shark Tank coach who is in denial and who actually thinks that ppl want them back at Brandywine.

Wow!!! Shark Tank this, Shark Tank that...It sounds like a small team with a big rep! I find it hard to believe that so "many" people have an issue with them. I am a PVS swimmer and I have seen them in action. It is amazing. Whoever you are (Brandywine mom, IM mom, etc). I think that you should take Bill's advice do your homework. There are always two-sides to a story and Shark Tank would not have the kind of influence that it does if it where all negative. Makes me wonder why you have a chip on your shoulder? Hmmm.

swimmer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that
> you should take Bill's advice do your homework.
> There are always two-sides to a story and Shark
> Tank would not have the kind of influence that it
> does if it where all negative.

It's hard to do homework about Shark Tank when they don't have a website. I'm also a PVS swimmer and have not been impressed by Shark Tank times or their attitude at meets. I wonder why they want to cause so much drama in NVSL instead of focusing on building their own team. Hmmm.

Google of 'Lance Page swimming' or 'Lance Page shark tank' returns no other hits than this discussion.

I don't know if many Brandywine people have an issue with Shark Tank per se. They're professional coaches, and they want to make a living just like the rest of us. The issue is that Brandywine has a long history of home-grown coaches and swimmers from the surrounding neighborhood. The advent of pro coaches, non-neighborhood swimmers who are breaking decades-old records, and a different, more competitive spirit to the team is what is disturbing to some members. Add to that the fact that pool members were not notified of these changes until they had already taken place...I think a lot of people will be voting with their feet next summer.

swimmer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow!!! Shark Tank this, Shark Tank that...It
> sounds like a small team with a big rep! I find it
> hard to believe that so "many" people have an
> issue with them. I am a PVS swimmer and I have
> seen them in action. It is amazing. Whoever you
> are (Brandywine mom, IM mom, etc). I think that
> you should take Bill's advice do your homework.
> There are always two-sides to a story and Shark
> Tank would not have the kind of influence that it
> does if it where all negative. Makes me wonder
> why you have a chip on your shoulder? Hmmm.

swimmmmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I have personally
> witnessed them trying to recruit some of our
> swimmers for their Shark Tank team.

Shark Tank did this at Laurel Hill too and it was not appreciated.

swimmer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow!!! Shark Tank this, Shark Tank that...It
> sounds like a small team with a big rep! I find it
> hard to believe that so "many" people have an
> issue with them. I am a PVS swimmer and I have
> seen them in action. It is amazing. Whoever you
> are (Brandywine mom, IM mom, etc). I think that
> you should take Bill's advice do your homework.
> There are always two-sides to a story and Shark
> Tank would not have the kind of influence that it
> does if it where all negative. Makes me wonder
> why you have a chip on your shoulder? Hmmm.


+1

>It's hard to do homework about Shark Tank when they don't have a website. I'm also a PVS swimmer and have not been impressed by Shark Tank times or their attitude at meets. I wonder why they want to cause so much drama in NVSL instead of focusing on building their own team. Hmmm.


WOW! what a douche you are swimmer2's mom! They only drama around sharktank I see is that which you trying to create right here. Seems to me you are the one with the problem.

My Bad! I meant swimmer3 is a d*. My aplogies swimmer2.

just an observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know if many Brandywine people have an
> issue with Shark Tank per se. They're professional
> coaches, and they want to make a living just like
> the rest of us. The issue is that Brandywine has a
> long history of home-grown coaches and swimmers
> from the surrounding neighborhood. The advent of
> pro coaches, non-neighborhood swimmers who are
> breaking decades-old records, and a different,
> more competitive spirit to the team is what is
> disturbing to some members. Add to that the fact
> that pool members were not notified of these
> changes until they had already taken place...I
> think a lot of people will be voting with their
> feet next summer.
>
Brandywine swimmers are welcome to join Somerset-Olde Creek pool...just a short drive away with cool coaches.

Is this the same guy?

"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","032"," 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","07/22/2003","70-74MPH/50MPH ZONE "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","032"," 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","10/06/2003","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","033"," 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","10/28/2004","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","033"," 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD ","VA","10/28/2004","EQUIPMENT UNAUTH LITES "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","034"," 5428","RILIAN ","CT","BURKE ","VA","03/16/2005","EQUIPMENT UNAUTH LITES "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037"," 5428","RILAN ","CT","BURKE ","VA","07/05/2008","70-74MPH/55MPH ZONE "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037"," 5428","RILAN ","CT","BURKE ","VA","12/11/2008","OPERATE UNLICENSED VEHICLE (EXP) "
"PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037"," 5428","RILIAN ","CT","BURKE ","VA","01/05/2008","CONTRIBUTE DEL OF MINOR "

uh oh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this the same guy?
>
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","032","
> 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> ","VA","07/22/2003","70-74MPH/50MPH ZONE
> "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","032","
> 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> ","VA","10/06/2003","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP
> "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","033","
> 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> ","VA","10/28/2004","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP
> "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","033","
> 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> ","VA","10/28/2004","EQUIPMENT UNAUTH LITES
> "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","034","
> 5428","RILIAN ","CT","BURKE
> ","VA","03/16/2005","EQUIPMENT UNAUTH LITES
> "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037","
> 5428","RILAN ","CT","BURKE
> ","VA","07/05/2008","70-74MPH/55MPH ZONE
> "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037","
> 5428","RILAN ","CT","BURKE
> ","VA","12/11/2008","OPERATE UNLICENSED VEHICLE
> (EXP) "
> "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037","
> 5428","RILIAN ","CT","BURKE
> ","VA","01/05/2008","CONTRIBUTE DEL OF MINOR
> "


Wow, I sure hope it's not the same guy. Everyone has a traffic violation in their past but "contributing to the delinquency of a minor" is a more serious offense, especially if you are coaching kids.

that lance page has the same rilan ct address as the pvs address for shark tank -

omg!!!! no wonder the secrecy!!! holy crap contributing to the delinq of a minor!!

The Internet sucks on so many levels.

i hope someone has the GUTS to notify Lance Page what is going on in this discussion. Number one, no one has unequivocal proof it's the same person. Number two, that last charge is extremely vague, and to throw it around without an explanation of the circumstances is just irresponsible. Number three, this borders on double jeopardy--whoever this person is, he was tried, convicted, and paid his fine (or whatever), and (assuming it's the Shark Tank Lance, which we don't know), the PVS ran a background check and deemed him suitable to coach.

If you all find pleasure in trying to destroy the guy nonetheless--hiding behind one or more aliases--then I feel very sorry for you.

Have concerns? Contact Lance directly. You've got all the info, thanks to your obsessive searches.


-------------------------------------------------------
> uh oh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is this the same guy?
> >
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","032","
>
> > 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> > ","VA","07/22/2003","70-74MPH/50MPH ZONE
>
> > "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","032","
>
> > 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> > ","VA","10/06/2003","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP
>
> > "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","033","
>
> > 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> > ","VA","10/28/2004","DRIVE-OL RVKD/SUSP
>
> > "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","033","
>
> > 9151","FOREST BREEZE ","CT","SPRINGFIELD
> > ","VA","10/28/2004","EQUIPMENT UNAUTH LITES
>
> > "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","034","
>
> > 5428","RILIAN ","CT","BURKE
> > ","VA","03/16/2005","EQUIPMENT UNAUTH LITES
>
> > "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037","
>
> > 5428","RILAN ","CT","BURKE
> > ","VA","07/05/2008","70-74MPH/55MPH ZONE
>
> > "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037","
>
> > 5428","RILAN ","CT","BURKE
> > ","VA","12/11/2008","OPERATE UNLICENSED VEHICLE
> > (EXP) "
> > "PAGE ","LANCE ","G","037","
>
> > 5428","RILIAN ","CT","BURKE
> > ","VA","01/05/2008","CONTRIBUTE DEL OF MINOR
>
> > "
>

It is all public record. I am sure Lance already knows about this site.

@disgusted...how do feel about your kids riding in the car with this guy. Dont come back and say "I dont have kids" Lets just assume you do. I know if I had kids I dont think I would be comfortable with him, especially a daughter....NOPE

Assuming I had kids, I don't think I'd need to consider them riding in the car with him. He'd be their swim coach, not their chauffeur.

Your comment just points out how damaging this discussion is--you say "especially my daughter," when we have no proof that a girl was even involved.

Did you know that if you shelter an abused child overnight, the abusive parent can file charges of contributing to the delinquency of a minor? I'm not saying that was what happened here. Because I have no idea what happened here. None of us do. Again, if you want details, go to the source--not a board full of anonymous postings--before you make your final judgment.

disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Assuming I had kids, I don't think I'd need to
> consider them riding in the car with him. He'd be
> their swim coach, not their chauffeur.

It was a yes or no question. Of course you danced around it. My swimmer has been in the car with the coach while going to a special breakfast before the all-star meet. Would you let your swimmer do that? Yes or No! Quit reading into the question...simply based on what you see. Driving like an idiot, not even taking into consideration the contributing charge.

If he cares, Lance should join the discussion like Bill Marlin did and set his own record straight. Why did he tell my child (and others it appears from this discussion) that he was in the Olympics? Did he qualify but not get in? Why did he not explain his previous arrest record when he was hired by NVSL pools? Were the charges thrown out or is that a different Lance Page? Why did he try to recruit swimmers from NVSL teams to Shark Tank in unsolicited advances (as mentioned in 2 previous posts)? Why did he move around to different NVSL swim teams (3 teams in 2 years)?

I just deleted my original reply, because this is ridiculously far off the original topic and I'm afraid I'm contributing to the length of this shameful thread: slander of a person who is not here to defend himself. Again, I hope those who are concerned will contact Lance and/or the PVS (and not anonymously).

disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Internet sucks on so many levels.
>
> i hope someone has the GUTS to notify Lance Page
> what is going on in this discussion. Number one,
> no one has unequivocal proof it's the same person.

How could it not be the same person???

http://www.pvswim.org/pvs_club.htm#TANK

disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just deleted my original reply, because this is
> ridiculously far off the original topic

NOT off topic. Original post was about winter swim teams. Lance Page=winter swim team coach, Shark Tank Racing Squad. NVSL team parents and swimmers jumped in because of their teams' associations with STRS.

Yes, but that's not what I'm referring to. What's off topic is whether I'd let my alleged kid ride in the car with a swim team coach.


lumberjack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> disgusted Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just deleted my original reply, because this
> is
> > ridiculously far off the original topic
>
> NOT off topic. Original post was about winter
> swim teams. Lance Page=winter swim team coach,
> Shark Tank Racing Squad. NVSL team parents and
> swimmers jumped in because of their teams'
> associations with STRS.

disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, but that's not what I'm referring to. What's
> off topic is whether I'd let my alleged kid ride
> in the car with a swim team coach.
>
>
> lumberjack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > disgusted Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I just deleted my original reply, because
> this
> > is
> > > ridiculously far off the original topic
> >
> > NOT off topic. Original post was about winter
> > swim teams. Lance Page=winter swim team coach,
> > Shark Tank Racing Squad. NVSL team parents and
> > swimmers jumped in because of their teams'
> > associations with STRS.

Since you have not answered the question I guess we will take that as a NO...you would not let your kid ride with somebody that appears to be so irresponsible.

disgusted...you gotta be Lances girl friend. Taking this way to personal to be a parent...or maybe you are the team rep that was so high on him only to find out he is a sham.

It's easy to hide behind the anonymity of emails, and use multiple email addresses to throw extra mud. If you believe all the garbage that is being said about individuals and companies on this site, then you deserve to reap the results of the poor decisions you're making.

If you really want to choose what's best for your children, find a way to talk directly with people on both sides of these accusations.

I wonder if the Brandywine board knows about this one - or if the new kid they hired as a coach to replace the two long-time coaches from the community knows this guy -- maybe there's a reason??? Also, why would they hire a "team manager" when they have a team rep? Why do they need both--because the team rep doesn't know how to do her job and she needs to hire a team mgr to do it, with a "coach" who contributes to the deliquency of minors. Hmmmmm..... If i were a parent of a child on that swim team i would be very concerned!!

brandywine board must be unable or unwilling to step in and take control. Why would they let such nonsense continue? Pool was in trouble last year with swim team stuff and looks to be more of the same in the future. If there is a problem, it needs to be fixed, not ignored.

What the fuck is all this? Wow. You guys are a bunch of cowards hiding behind an anonymous blog, slandering, making trouble and creating unrest? You have no idea who you are fucking with, either? That is the funny part. I hope that someone does tell him what is being said, so that he can put some resources into finding out how all of you cowards are!! I bet "freedom of speech" goes out the door after names are dropped and people are confronted. Hell, I am going to help identify you guys!! This should be fun! I would strongly suggest that you back the hell off..soon!!! Punks and cowards come in all shapes and sizes....even cyber!!! Unbelievable!!

just an observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know if many Brandywine people have an
> issue with Shark Tank per se. They're professional
> coaches, and they want to make a living just like
> the rest of us. The issue is that Brandywine has a
> long history of home-grown coaches and swimmers
> from the surrounding neighborhood. The advent of
> pro coaches, non-neighborhood swimmers who are
> breaking decades-old records, and a different,
> more competitive spirit to the team is what is
> disturbing to some members. Add to that the fact
> that pool members were not notified of these
> changes until they had already taken place...I
> think a lot of people will be voting with their
> feet next summer.
>

Good observations "observer"! We'll be voting with our feet too.

OMG...really? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the fuck is all this? Wow. You guys are a
> bunch of cowards hiding behind an anonymous blog,
> slandering, making trouble and creating unrest?
> You have no idea who you are fucking with, either?
> That is the funny part. I hope that someone does
> tell him what is being said, so that he can put
> some resources into finding out how all of you
> cowards are!! I bet "freedom of speech" goes out
> the door after names are dropped and people are
> confronted. Hell, I am going to help identify you
> guys!! This should be fun! I would strongly
> suggest that you back the hell off..soon!!! Punks
> and cowards come in all shapes and sizes....even
> cyber!!! Unbelievable!

+1

Don't make threats. These bottom feeders aren't worth it. Or should I say bottom feeder, because we all know it's "Carrie" and her special kind of crazy.

What is going on with this thread? Let's get back to swimming - if there is an issue with a coach, I hope that the parents&managing organization have full knowledge/transparency of their coach's background for the kids sake.

Onto another subject - anyone know a good hotel for eastern zones in ny? my inlaws will be flying in -

hotel ? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is going on with this thread? Let's get back
> to swimming - if there is an issue with a coach, I
> hope that the parents&managing organization have
> full knowledge/transparency of their coach's
> background for the kids sake.
>
> Onto another subject - anyone know a good hotel
> for eastern zones in ny? my inlaws will be flying
> in -

Noorthern or Southern....always had good luck with hotels.com

its not so easy, brandywine had an undefeated season this year, the team can fire what coach and whenever, only AFTER the season is over."we did it at overlee once"

OMG...really? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I would strongly
> suggest that you back the hell off..soon!!! Punks
> and cowards come in all shapes and sizes....even
> cyber!!! Unbelievable!!


Bullies also carry a big clipboard like you and squash all dissent.

I have never been so appalled. Most of the messages are the ranting of an unstable mother who on her own has decided to take on an entire neighborhood for the furtherment of her own daughter. She has been manipulative, angry, self-serving, and down right evil. After the events of the last couple months with messages sent on-line, you would think that someone might check themself. I think this is truly a cry for help and that this mother needs an intervention. I am sure that there is some disagreement among the neighbors regarding Brandywine Pool but it is not at the level of pure insanity that this mother has brought it to. I hope the neighbors will stand together and regcognize that we are the adults and that this not a topic that should inspire the hatred and ingnorance that has been displayed by the previous emails.

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never been so appalled. Most of the
> messages are the ranting of an unstable mother who
> on her own has decided to take on an entire
> neighborhood for the furtherment of her own
> daughter. She has been manipulative, angry,
> self-serving, and down right evil. After the
> events of the last couple months with messages
> sent on-line, you would think that someone might
> check themself. I think this is truly a cry for
> help and that this mother needs an intervention.
> I am sure that there is some disagreement among
> the neighbors regarding Brandywine Pool but it is
> not at the level of pure insanity that this mother
> has brought it to. I hope the neighbors will
> stand together and regcognize that we are the
> adults and that this not a topic that should
> inspire the hatred and ingnorance that has been
> displayed by the previous emails.


You sound like a good person to lead the intervention. (Nice rant by the way. Not sure what "regcognize" means, or "ingnorance", and pretty sure there are no emails posted on this board; but hey - have at a go with the intervention.)

I do believe the image stolen shamelessly from the weather thread is appropriate here:
Attachments:

I am truly curious what your motive is. My children swam for Vance and Patty last summer. Swimming is not their sport. But, I will tell you that Vance and Patty and Julie (the team rep) brought them to new levels. They were inspiring, kind and knowledgeable. Something doesn't add up. Must you stay anonymous if you have the goods to back up your statements. What is the mystery?

After the events of the past several months of seeing what spiteful and angry blogs can do, it inspires me to get involved. None of the individuals being slandered have anything to gain. They were hired or volunteered to do a job for our children. None of the outlandish blows being thrown at them have to do with what actually happened. Our team did an outstanding job and, I think, if you sent a questionnaire to the children involved, I would be shocked to find with the exception of one or two that the children loved and were inspired by the individuals involved. I don't know why it has to come to this. I teach my children every day that if you can't say it to someones face, dont' say it at all. But this world of blogging allows people to attack individuals and thier families without recourse. It should be against the law.

My kids have been swimming at Rolling Hills for years. Early in the season, in walks Patty Friedman, Lance and about 12 kids new to the swim team. Patty has a 6 year old daughter who according to her "loves to swim!" That was hard to believe since Patty would march her daughter into the pool straight from school wearing her private school uniform two hours before her practice started. The girl would sit and do 2 hours of homework (what 6 year old has that much "homework"?) and then have her change into her suit. One day her daughter was crying saying "I don't want to swim" over and over. Patty bent down and told her "shut up and swim" as she is cramming on the kid's swim cap over dry hair, yanking it down. She constantly bragged about how her kid was breaking records at six years old. We were so happy to when they left and took their swimmers with them. One of the reasons they left was that RH wouldn't give them full reign over the swim team (thank goodness). We had a few meets against Brandywine and Patty would be on the side of the pool winding her arm around during the meets and screaming at the swimmers to go, go, go!! She also would call some of the RH swimmers losers and heckle them along with some Brandywine swimmers. I wondered how Brandywine could let them come in and allow their team to show poor sportsmanship. Glad that Brandywine did so well and they moved up a division! Looking forward to not seeing that FREAK or her constantly swinging arm this summer! Patty, if you're reading this, you need serious mental help!

You are really big and boastful behind an anonymous cast. Give us your name. Let us know who you are. Everything you stated is the exact opposite of what I and other parents experienced. Althougth, Patty could be loud and cheer for the swimmers, she cheered just as loud of the swimmers she had known before. Lets see if you have the guts to be as vicious and outspoken with your name tied to the slander. Something tells me it might be a bitter pill.

If you can't figure it out, that says it all.

I'm psyched. One team we are sure to beat.

"What the fuck is all this? Wow. You guys are a bunch of cowards hiding behind an anonymous blog, slandering, making trouble and creating unrest? You have no idea who you are fucking with, either? That is the funny part. I hope that someone does tell him what is being said, so that he can put some resources into finding out how all of you cowards are!! I bet "freedom of speech" goes out the door after names are dropped and people are confronted. Hell, I am going to help identify you guys!! This should be fun! I would strongly suggest that you back the hell off..soon!!! Punks and cowards come in all shapes and sizes....even cyber!!! Unbelievable!!"

Such foul and threatening language coming from a shark tank supporter. Brandywine must be so proud to have them represent their community

Wow Wrote:
>
> Such foul and threatening language coming from a
> shark tank supporter. Brandywine must be so proud
> to have them represent their community

Jesus, Cybil! How many personalities do you have in there?

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kids have been swimming at Rolling Hills for
> years. Early in the season, in walks Patty
> Friedman, Lance and about 12 kids new to the swim
> team. Patty has a 6 year old daughter who
> according to her "loves to swim!" That was hard
> to believe since Patty would march her daughter
> into the pool straight from school wearing her
> private school uniform two hours before her
> practice started. The girl would sit and do 2
> hours of homework (what 6 year old has that much
> "homework"?) and then have her change into her
> suit. One day her daughter was crying saying "I
> don't want to swim" over and over. Patty bent
> down and told her "shut up and swim" as she is
> cramming on the kid's swim cap over dry hair,
> yanking it down. She constantly bragged about how
> her kid was breaking records at six years old. We
> were so happy to when they left and took their
> swimmers with them. One of the reasons they left
> was that RH wouldn't give them full reign over the
> swim team (thank goodness). We had a few meets
> against Brandywine and Patty would be on the side
> of the pool winding her arm around during the
> meets and screaming at the swimmers to go, go,
> go!! She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> losers and heckle them along with some Brandywine
> swimmers. I wondered how Brandywine could let
> them come in and allow their team to show poor
> sportsmanship. Glad that Brandywine did so well
> and they moved up a division! Looking forward to
> not seeing that FREAK or her constantly swinging
> arm this summer! Patty, if you're reading this,
> you need serious mental help!

+1

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I wondered how Brandywine could let
> them come in and allow their team to show poor
> sportsmanship. Glad that Brandywine did so well
> and they moved up a division! Looking forward to
> not seeing that FREAK or her constantly swinging
> arm this summer! Patty, if you're reading this,
> you need serious mental help!

Congrats on your NVSL Div. 13 Sportsmanship award last year Rolling Hills! You deserved it, especially for putting up with Brandywine's bad sportsmanship.

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Our team did an outstanding job and, I
> think, if you sent a questionnaire to the children
> involved, I would be shocked to find with the
> exception of one or two that the children loved
> and were inspired by the individuals involved.

Not true. Go ahead and send a questionnaire to the children involved. You WILL be shocked. While you're at it, ask the ex-coaches their opinions about Lance and Patty as well. Their reservations were ignored by the pool board and now they are gone. I wonder why.

truthseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brandywine swimmers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Our team did an outstanding job and, I
> > think, if you sent a questionnaire to the
> children
> > involved, I would be shocked to find with the
> > exception of one or two that the children loved
> > and were inspired by the individuals involved.
>
>
> Not true. Go ahead and send a questionnaire to the
> children involved. You WILL be shocked. While
> you're at it, ask the ex-coaches their opinions
> about Lance and Patty as well. Their reservations
> were ignored by the pool board and now they are
> gone. I wonder why.

In the survey that WAS sent to families,if I recall correctly almost a third didn't answer when asked about their satisfaction with the swim team program. More than 1 or 2 (at least 8) indicated they would not return to the swim team next year.

Samson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMG...really? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> I would strongly
> > suggest that you back the hell off..soon!!!
> Punks
> > and cowards come in all shapes and
> sizes....even
> > cyber!!! Unbelievable!!
>
>
> Bullies also carry a big clipboard like you and
> squash all dissent.


Yeah, I heard the Brandywine swim team rep is making swimmers and parents sign a "code of conduct" so no one can make any "waves" next season, no pun intended. She must be a military brat or wife or military herself.

The NVSL already has a code of conduct, the problem is that it has no teeth, is never enforced, and largely ignored. Especially by overeager coaches (and some over-the-top parents) at certain pools around the area. Homegrown programs with coaches who have come up "through the system" don't seem as bad as the pools who bring in hired guns to lead their little sons and daughters to victory and conquest.

I've been watching this thread since it began because I have been a part of the swimming community in this area since I was a little kid. I've been a particpant in the NVSL going back to the early '80s and I have also coached there.

This kind of talk is why good kids get out of coaching and there are fewer homegrown coaches in the league. What college kid, who is respectful of adults, would want to put up with this kind of stuff? The crazy thing is that we are talking about some teams that are lower division; imagine what things are like at the upper divisions. It's no wonder that you see coaches jumping after a couple seasons.

By the way, whoever posted the one coach's record (legal, but in very bad taste), you are obviuosly not aware of USA Swimming's new background check policy. If he has a problem on his record, he will not be coaching on deck for a USS team.

This Is Crazy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This kind of talk is why good kids get out of
> coaching and there are fewer homegrown coaches in
> the league. What college kid, who is respectful
> of adults, would want to put up with this kind of
> stuff?

Exactly. Why do you think the homegrown college coaches left Brandywine? An out-of-control swim team rep who thinks summer swim team = Olympics. The real losers here are the kids.

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm psyched. One team we are sure to beat.

Not sure why you're so psyched to beat us-you moved up, remember? In case you don't know, even though you won the division, your team was the laughing stock of the division. The other pools in the divsion would discuss your team during other meets and the behavior of the adults (and some swimmers) on the Brandywine team. It's really sad the adults of Brandywine lowered the standards for their swimmers. I'm sure you guys practiced hard and all that, but you lost focus of what summer swim teams are all about. When you guys advance in the NVSL, which I'm sure you will, you'll then become the laughing stock of the higher divisions as well.

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brandywine swimmers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
I'm sure you guys
> practiced hard and all that, but you lost focus of
> what summer swim teams are all about. When you
> guys advance in the NVSL, which I'm sure you will,
> you'll then become the laughing stock of the
> higher divisions as well.

From the Brandywine website:

The [Brandywine] Board agreed to include the NVSL rationale: “The Northern Virginia Swimming League was founded in 1956 to sponsor competitive swimming and diving in and among the community swimming pools … and to develop in the children participating in this program--A love for the sport, advanced aquatic skills, teamwork, and the principles of good sportsmanship.”

I'd point out that this is what the announcer says at the beginning of every meet.

http://brandywinepool.com/id33.html

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never been so appalled. Most of the
> messages are the ranting of an unstable mother who
> on her own has decided to take on an entire
> neighborhood for the furtherment of her own
> daughter. She has been manipulative, angry,
> self-serving, and down right evil.

Get a life! I'm a Brandywine dad and I don't even have any daughters so don't make assumptions. There are at least a dozen Brandywine families that I know of that are posting here, parents and swimmers alike. The only manipulative, angry, self-serving, evil people here are the shark tank supporters.

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brandywine swimmers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm psyched. One team we are sure to beat.
>
> Not sure why you're so psyched to beat us-you
> moved up, remember? In case you don't know, even
> though you won the division, your team was the
> laughing stock of the division. The other pools
> in the divsion would discuss your team during
> other meets and the behavior of the adults (and
> some swimmers) on the Brandywine team. It's
> really sad the adults of Brandywine lowered the
> standards for their swimmers. I'm sure you guys
> practiced hard and all that, but you lost focus of
> what summer swim teams are all about. When you
> guys advance in the NVSL, which I'm sure you will,
> you'll then become the laughing stock of the
> higher divisions as well.

Pool rat, not so sure they will keep advancing in the NVSL. I predict a losing season for Brandywine. Maybe that will humble their pompous ass.

The only ones at Brandywine who need to sign a code of conduct are the new swim team rep and the shark tank "coach". Also, the team rep's bully children could use it too.

This Is Crazy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been watching this thread since it began
> because I have been a part of the swimming
> community in this area since I was a little kid.
> I've been a particpant in the NVSL going back to
> the early '80s and I have also coached there.
>
> This kind of talk is why good kids get out of
> coaching and there are fewer homegrown coaches in
> the league. What college kid, who is respectful
> of adults, would want to put up with this kind of
> stuff? The crazy thing is that we are talking
> about some teams that are lower division; imagine
> what things are like at the upper divisions. It's
> no wonder that you see coaches jumping after a
> couple seasons.
>
> By the way, whoever posted the one coach's record
> (legal, but in very bad taste), you are obviuosly
> not aware of USA Swimming's new background check
> policy. If he has a problem on his record, he
> will not be coaching on deck for a USS team.

+1

The behavior on this thread is disgraceful. Who would be inspired to join USASWim and NVSL after seeing how people villify eachother behind their backs..

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I teach my
> children every day that if you can't say it to
> someones face, dont' say it at all.

I teach my children everyday that winning isn't everything..something the Brandywine parents or at least the team rep seem to have forgotten.

What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.
- John Ruskin

> water water everywhere wrote:
>
> Yeah, I heard the Brandywine swim team rep is
> making swimmers and parents sign a "code of
> conduct" so no one can make any "waves" next
> season, no pun intended. She must be a military
> brat or wife or military herself.

"I heard" Kind of says it all doesn't it.

Lets see some faces to these blogs. Come on. What are you hiding behind. I will bet that most of you attend a church, or chapel, or synagogue, you probably consider yourself good people and are parents raising children in this vicious, ugly world of faceless blogs. Well, be proud of yourselves. I would love to see any of you put your name to the blog messages sent below. Cowardess, spineless, ugly power is what has been given to you by these forums. Congratulations and make sure you don't miss service on Sunday.

Kelly Gill

This Is Crazy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This kind of talk is why good kids get out of
> coaching and there are fewer homegrown coaches in
> the league. What college kid, who is respectful
> of adults, would want to put up with this kind of
> stuff? The crazy thing is that we are talking
> about some teams that are lower division; imagine
> what things are like at the upper divisions. It's
> no wonder that you see coaches jumping after a
> couple seasons.
>

+1

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets see some faces to these blogs. Come on.
> What are you hiding behind. I will bet that most
> of you attend a church, or chapel, or synagogue,
> you probably consider yourself good people and are
> parents raising children in this vicious, ugly
> world of faceless blogs. Well, be proud of
> yourselves. I would love to see any of you put
> your name to the blog messages sent below.
> Cowardess, spineless, ugly power is what has been
> given to you by these forums. Congratulations and
> make sure you don't miss service on Sunday.
>
> Kelly Gill

+1

Mench Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brandywine swimmers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lets see some faces to these blogs. Come on.
> > What are you hiding behind. I will bet that
> most
> > of you attend a church, or chapel, or
> synagogue,
> > you probably consider yourself good people and
> are
> > parents raising children in this vicious, ugly
> > world of faceless blogs. Well, be proud of
> > yourselves. I would love to see any of you put
> > your name to the blog messages sent below.
> > Cowardess, spineless, ugly power is what has
> been
> > given to you by these forums. Congratulations
> and
> > make sure you don't miss service on Sunday.
> >
> > Kelly Gill
>
> +1


"GILL ","KELLY ","J","034"," 6719","TOWER #203 ","DR","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","03/14/2008","FAIL OBEY HWY SIGN "

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets see some faces to these blogs. Come on.
> What are you hiding behind. I will bet that most
> of you attend a church, or chapel, or synagogue,
> you probably consider yourself good people and are
> parents raising children in this vicious, ugly
> world of faceless blogs. Well, be proud of
> yourselves. I would love to see any of you put
> your name to the blog messages sent below.
> Cowardess, spineless, ugly power is what has been
> given to you by these forums. Congratulations and
> make sure you don't miss service on Sunday.
>
> Kelly Gill


Get real! Your name isn't "gill"....like as in fish have gills?? and what do fish do? Swim! Watch out for Sharks Ms. Gill and you practice what you preach. Talk about hiding behind blogs...

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brandywine swimmers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm psyched. One team we are sure to beat.
>
> Not sure why you're so psyched to beat us-you
> moved up, remember? In case you don't know, even
> though you won the division, your team was the
> laughing stock of the division. The other pools
> in the divsion would discuss your team during
> other meets and the behavior of the adults (and
> some swimmers) on the Brandywine team. It's
> really sad the adults of Brandywine lowered the
> standards for their swimmers. I'm sure you guys
> practiced hard and all that, but you lost focus of
> what summer swim teams are all about. When you
> guys advance in the NVSL, which I'm sure you will,
> you'll then become the laughing stock of the
> higher divisions as well.

+1

laughing stock=cow with a sense of humor

moo, moo brandywine

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would love to see any of you put
> your name to the blog messages sent below.

According to Cary, the Fairfax Underground moderator, "Free, open, and anonymous means that you can express any thought, idea or opinion without fear of censorship." Like it or leave it.

bessie the cow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> laughing stock=cow with a sense of humor
>
> moo, moo brandywine

ur too funny! maybe someone should plaster brandywine with laughing cow cheese to lighten them up? or better yet, use the "light" laughing cow cheese :)

land of the free Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> According to Cary, the Fairfax Underground
> moderator, "Free, open, and anonymous means that
> you can express any thought, idea or opinion
> without fear of censorship." Like it or leave it.

Yes, you certainly can.... Cary has really empowered you, eh? Makes you feel like you wear big girl panties, right?

He had no code, no honor, and God was watching Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Homegrown
> programs with coaches who have come up "through
> the system" don't seem as bad as the pools who
> bring in hired guns to lead their little sons and
> daughters to victory and conquest.

+1

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kids have been swimming at Rolling Hills for
> years. Early in the season, in walks Patty
> Friedman, Lance and about 12 kids new to the swim
> team. Patty has a 6 year old daughter who
> according to her "loves to swim!" That was hard
> to believe since Patty would march her daughter
> into the pool straight from school wearing her
> private school uniform two hours before her
> practice started. The girl would sit and do 2
> hours of homework (what 6 year old has that much
> "homework"?) and then have her change into her
> suit. One day her daughter was crying saying "I
> don't want to swim" over and over. Patty bent
> down and told her "shut up and swim" as she is
> cramming on the kid's swim cap over dry hair,
> yanking it down. She constantly bragged about how
> her kid was breaking records at six years old. We
> were so happy to when they left and took their
> swimmers with them. One of the reasons they left
> was that RH wouldn't give them full reign over the
> swim team (thank goodness). We had a few meets
> against Brandywine and Patty would be on the side
> of the pool winding her arm around during the
> meets and screaming at the swimmers to go, go,
> go!! She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> losers and heckle them along with some Brandywine
> swimmers. I wondered how Brandywine could let
> them come in and allow their team to show poor
> sportsmanship. Glad that Brandywine did so well
> and they moved up a division! Looking forward to
> not seeing that FREAK or her constantly swinging
> arm this summer! Patty, if you're reading this,
> you need serious mental help!

+1
Glad they left our team too.

brandywine swimmers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets see some faces to these blogs. Come on.
> What are you hiding behind. I will bet that most
> of you attend a church, or chapel, or synagogue,
> you probably consider yourself good people and are
> parents raising children in this vicious, ugly
> world of faceless blogs. Well, be proud of
> yourselves. I would love to see any of you put
> your name to the blog messages sent below.
> Cowardess, spineless, ugly power is what has been
> given to you by these forums. Congratulations and
> make sure you don't miss service on Sunday.
>
> Kelly Gill

We know you will miss service on Sunday because you & the other sharks will be at the pool getting ready for the summer season. Gotta continue to be undefeated! Meanwhile, the rest of us will be praying the sharks won't be so rude, obnoxious, poor sports, bad examples, etc.

The Shepherd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> land of the free Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > According to Cary, the Fairfax Underground
> > moderator, "Free, open, and anonymous means
> that
> > you can express any thought, idea or opinion
> > without fear of censorship." Like it or leave
> it.
>
> Yes, you certainly can.... Cary has really
> empowered you, eh? Makes you feel like you wear
> big girl panties, right?

Now that's funny right there, especially because it's so true. I would add that no matter what disagreement I've ever had with someone it would never occur to me to post their name and address on the World Wide Web while making malicious assertions and potentially putting their families in danger.

What? This string is so far off course it's not funny!

WoW! This is a soap opera. You better beleive I will take a look at the rankings at the end of the summer swim.

Where is Brandywine?

First off, I would recommend Machine Aquatics to any person of any level, any day... I was a founding swimmer for Machine in 2001 when the club began. Dan Jacobs was a coach for York Swim Club and he, along with some other select coaches left to form their own club. I swam with Machine year-round up until i went away to school. It's honestly amazing how Dan and the other coaches can maintain such efficient structure while preserving the feel of basically a private lesson at every practice and meet. Since 2001 I have watched Machine grow from literally nothing to one of the biggest teams in all of Virginia, not to mention NoVa. Honestly, it's been a fantastic experience, and you would absolutely love the coaches and their ethic.

Coach Christian from Fish was also one of the founding coaches. He was also fabulous.Yes, Machine is a great team because of its coaches.

It all depends on what you are looking for. Machine is to USS what Brandywine (and Chesterbrook, Crosspointe, etc.) is to NVSL.

Some teams value results more than sportsmanship and character building - and for some swimmers and families that is what they are looking for. To each his/her own.

Fly MoM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WoW! This is a soap opera. You better beleive I
> will take a look at the rankings at the end of the
> summer swim.
>
> Where is Brandywine?

Brandywine is right in the heart of Fairfax off of Pickett and Braddock Roads and not too far from GMU...good location is probably why the Shark Tank team decided to use it as their summer training ground after Rolling Hills kicked them out.

yes, Christian is also a founding coach of the team, as well as a great guy. And i've have to disagree with your comment likening Machine to a team such as Chesterbrook. Chesterbrook does not seem to value sportsmanship at all when stood up next to Vienna Aquatic Club (VAC). Dan coached VAC up until last year, and had been around since the early 70's. He brought up VAC, much like Machine on a foundation of integrity and sportsmanship, unlike many of the other top NVSL teams

Machine does have some impressive results. Seems they turn out good distance swimmers too. I just read an article in Splash I think it was. It has CUBU and RMSC rated very highly. A friend said the Marlins have just broke the top 100 list.

browser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pool Rat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > brandywine swimmers Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> I'm sure you guys
> > practiced hard and all that, but you lost focus
> of
> > what summer swim teams are all about. When you
> > guys advance in the NVSL, which I'm sure you
> will,
> > you'll then become the laughing stock of the
> > higher divisions as well.
>
> From the Brandywine website:
>
> The Board agreed to include the NVSL rationale:
> “The Northern Virginia Swimming League was
> founded in 1956 to sponsor competitive swimming
> and diving in and among the community swimming
> pools … and to develop in the children
> participating in this program--A love for the
> sport, advanced aquatic skills, teamwork, and the
> principles of good sportsmanship.”
>
> I'd point out that this is what the announcer says
> at the beginning of every meet.
>
> http://brandywinepool.com/id33.html


Talk is cheap!! Brandywine can post these statements and "say" they admire them, but do their actions at the pool and in this message board (yes, it is obvious that rep is a contributing party to the malicious mud-slinging) align with the NVSL goal? No way. Rep didn't listen to coaches or parents last season and has ignored member comments in survey. If they want respect they need to earn it. Not act like a group of entitled ogres that think they know what is best for the team. Brnadywine website also makes mention of "family-friendly" and "community". Those characteristics are not evident here from BWine members and rep, the vibe at pool last year was not as "friendly" as in years past and the new S-Tank members on swim team are not really a part of the "community.

BWhiner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Talk is cheap!! Brandywine can post these
> statements and "say" they admire them, but do
> their actions at the pool and in this message
> board (yes, it is obvious that rep is a
> contributing party to the malicious mud-slinging)
> align with the NVSL goal? No way. Rep didn't
> listen to coaches or parents last season and has
> ignored member comments in survey. If they want
> respect they need to earn it. Not act like a group
> of entitled ogres that think they know what is
> best for the team. Brnadywine website also makes
> mention of "family-friendly" and "community".
> Those characteristics are not evident here from
> BWine members and rep, the vibe at pool last year
> was not as "friendly" as in years past and the new
> S-Tank members on swim team are not really a part
> of the "community.

+1

Yeah, well said BWhiner! Funny how under the previous swim team reps and homegrown coaches no "code of conduct" was required. Everyone got along just fine until the shark tankers came in along with the new swim team rep.

Christian Doud is still with Machine. Not FISH. He's one of the owners of the team.

flipturn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BWhiner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Talk is cheap!! Brandywine can post these
> > statements and "say" they admire them, but do
> > their actions at the pool and in this message
> > board (yes, it is obvious that rep is a
> > contributing party to the malicious
> mud-slinging)
> > align with the NVSL goal? No way. Rep didn't
> > listen to coaches or parents last season and
> has
> > ignored member comments in survey. If they want
> > respect they need to earn it. Not act like a
> group
> > of entitled ogres that think they know what is
> > best for the team. Brnadywine website also
> makes
> > mention of "family-friendly" and "community".
> > Those characteristics are not evident here from
> > BWine members and rep, the vibe at pool last
> year
> > was not as "friendly" as in years past and the
> new
> > S-Tank members on swim team are not really a
> part
> > of the "community.
>
> +1
>
> Yeah, well said BWhiner! Funny how under the
> previous swim team reps and homegrown coaches no
> "code of conduct" was required. Everyone got
> along just fine until the shark tankers came in
> along with the new swim team rep.


Not so fast...We swam against Brandywine many times, long before the new rep, and the experience was not pleasant then. Surly kids and rude parents. No wonder they have enforced the code of conduct.

NVSL team Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Not so fast...We swam against Brandywine many
> times, long before the new rep, and the experience
> was not pleasant then. Surly kids and rude
> parents. No wonder they have enforced the code of
> conduct.

get ready to eat some humble pie Brandywine...u moved up 3 divisions to Div 10 in the NVSL and will be racing against former Div 8 teams.

pie in ur face Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>.>
> get ready to eat some humble pie Brandywine...u
> moved up 3 divisions to Div 10 in the NVSL and
> will be racing against former Div 8 teams.


"Former" for a reason.

NVSL team Wrote:

> Not so fast...We swam against Brandywine many
> times, long before the new rep, and the experience
> was not pleasant then. Surly kids and rude
> parents. No wonder they have enforced the code of
> conduct.

On behalf of Brandywine, I apologize for all the rude parents and surly kids that you may have encountered at meets. Unfortunately, it's just a few loudmouth parents (including the new team rep and the new Shark Tank "team manager") and their kids who are to blame for ruining our reputation and making us the "laughing stock" of the NVSL as the poster from Rolling Hills stated.

flipturn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSL team Wrote:
>
> > Not so fast...We swam against Brandywine many
> > times, long before the new rep, and the
> experience
> > was not pleasant then. Surly kids and rude
> > parents. No wonder they have enforced the code
> of
> > conduct.
>
> On behalf of Brandywine, I apologize for all the
> rude parents and surly kids that you may have
> encountered at meets. Unfortunately, it's just a
> few loudmouth parents (including the new team rep
> and the new Shark Tank "team manager") and their
> kids who are to blame for ruining our reputation
> and making us the "laughing stock" of the NVSL as
> the poster from Rolling Hills stated.


I'm pretty Goddamn sure I wrote that our bad experiences were prior to the new rep being there. Oh YES! And there it is....for those who can read that is. Nice try.

Who went to states for FCPS Swim & Dive this year?

I heard Annandale/Woodson/JEB Stuart were the best? Is that true?

Were there any college recruits?

The little write up in the Post mentioned Oakton, the twins from Langley and one other school. Seemed to be a bit biased. I know of several other schools that were down there and got no mention. It struck me odd that the Post did not even report any scores either.

Spartans ( 6-1) went to States. Don't know how they did.

"I'm pretty Goddamn sure I wrote that our bad experiences were prior to the new rep being there. Oh YES! And there it is....for those who can read that is. Nice try."

again, such foul and threatening language, the Brandywine community must be ok with this type of representation.

Wow again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I'm pretty Goddamn sure I wrote that our bad
> experiences were prior to the new rep being there.
> Oh YES! And there it is....for those who can read
> that is. Nice try."
>
> again, such foul and threatening language, the
> Brandywine community must be ok with this type of
> representation.

Foul and threatening? Oh please, spare us the hyperbole. It's tiresome. And I'm not from Brandywine. I just find it sickening that people like you pretend to be righteous pillars of a community while you indulge in villifying others. What a grand expample you set for the Northern Virginia Swim League and USASwim.

Tiresome indeed! Let's get on to another topic. Any surprises about your team's division placement in the NVSL this summer?

sunny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tiresome indeed! Let's get on to another topic.
> Any surprises about your team's division placement
> in the NVSL this summer?

Yeah, huge surprise. Div. 12 this year.

NVSL team Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sunny Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tiresome indeed! Let's get on to another topic.
>
> > Any surprises about your team's division
> placement
> > in the NVSL this summer?
>
> Yeah, huge surprise. Div. 12 this year.

Well at least ur not in Div. 10 with Brandywine..what losers who will probably have a losing season.

Fin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSL team Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > sunny Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Tiresome indeed! Let's get on to another
> topic.
> >
> > > Any surprises about your team's division
> > placement
> > > in the NVSL this summer?
> >
> > Yeah, huge surprise. Div. 12 this year.
>
> Well at least ur not in Div. 10 with
> Brandywine..what losers who will probably have a
> losing season.

STFU

Hey Fin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NVSL team Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > sunny Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Tiresome indeed! Let's get on to another
> > topic.
> > >
> > > > Any surprises about your team's division
> > > placement
> > > > in the NVSL this summer?
> > >
> > > Yeah, huge surprise. Div. 12 this year.
> >
> > Well at least ur not in Div. 10 with
> > Brandywine..what losers who will probably have
> a
> > losing season.
>
> STFU

Well...there's an articulate response for ya.

I see that VAC finally accepted their fate and moved down to Division 3. I wasn't sure they would accept moving down so low, but you have to face the facts with the cards you are dealt. The dual meet between VAC and Crosspointe will be a hoot,grab your popcorn and lawn chairs. The wounded pride of VAC versus the poor sportsmanship and inflated egos of Crosspointe - should be entertaining.

Any other big rivalries to watch this summer?

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My kids have been swimming at Rolling Hills for
> years. Early in the season, in walks Patty
> Friedman, Lance and about 12 kids new to the swim
> team. Patty has a 6 year old daughter who
> according to her "loves to swim!" That was hard
> to believe since Patty would march her daughter
> into the pool straight from school wearing her
> private school uniform two hours before her
> practice started. The girl would sit and do 2
> hours of homework (what 6 year old has that much
> "homework"?) and then have her change into her
> suit. One day her daughter was crying saying "I
> don't want to swim" over and over. Patty bent
> down and told her "shut up and swim" as she is
> cramming on the kid's swim cap over dry hair,
> yanking it down. She constantly bragged about how
> her kid was breaking records at six years old. We
> were so happy to when they left and took their
> swimmers with them. One of the reasons they left
> was that RH wouldn't give them full reign over the
> swim team (thank goodness). We had a few meets
> against Brandywine and Patty would be on the side
> of the pool winding her arm around during the
> meets and screaming at the swimmers to go, go,
> go!! She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> losers and heckle them along with some Brandywine
> swimmers. I wondered how Brandywine could let
> them come in and allow their team to show poor
> sportsmanship. Glad that Brandywine did so well
> and they moved up a division! Looking forward to
> not seeing that FREAK or her constantly swinging
> arm this summer! Patty, if you're reading this,
> you need serious mental help!

Guess what Pool Rat? Brandywine moved up 3 divisions and are now PAYING Shark Tank Patty to be the "team manager." I guess they believe in rewarding bad sportmanship. At least we don't have to see her swinging arm in Division 13 anymore!!

stroke-n-turn judge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Guess what Pool Rat? Brandywine moved up 3
> divisions and are now PAYING Shark Tank Patty to
> be the "team manager." I guess they believe in
> rewarding bad sportmanship. At least we don't
> have to see her swinging arm in Division 13
> anymore!!

I feel sorry for the "normal" swimmers on that team to have to deal with the Shark Tank crap. Oh well, not our problem anymore!

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stroke-n-turn judge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Guess what Pool Rat? Brandywine moved up 3
> > divisions and are now PAYING Shark Tank Patty
> to
> > be the "team manager." I guess they believe in
> > rewarding bad sportmanship. At least we don't
> > have to see her swinging arm in Division 13
> > anymore!!
>
> I feel sorry for the "normal" swimmers on that
> team to have to deal with the Shark Tank crap. Oh
> well, not our problem anymore!


You two have relegated youselves to Trolls at this point. You're just throwing stupid shit out there to keep your nasty comments going. Every coach, swimmer and parent I've ever seen at a close meet waves their arms and screams GO! to the swimmers.. Who cares if the swimmer can't hear the cheers, it's part of the excitment. But I guess that's lost on you..wonder why.

NVSLTeam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You two have relegated youselves to Trolls at this
> point. You're just throwing stupid shit out there
> to keep your nasty comments going. Every coach,
> swimmer and parent I've ever seen at a close meet
> waves their arms and screams GO! to the swimmers..
> Who cares if the swimmer can't hear the cheers,
> it's part of the excitment. But I guess that's
> lost on you..wonder why.

Yeah, who cares about Div 13 or Div 10 teams anyway? Division 3 is where it's at. Go Wahoos!!!!!

wahoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSLTeam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > You two have relegated youselves to Trolls at
> this
> > point. You're just throwing stupid shit out
> there
> > to keep your nasty comments going. Every
> coach,
> > swimmer and parent I've ever seen at a close
> meet
> > waves their arms and screams GO! to the
> swimmers..
> > Who cares if the swimmer can't hear the cheers,
> > it's part of the excitment. But I guess that's
> > lost on you..wonder why.
>
> Yeah, who cares about Div 13 or Div 10 teams
> anyway? Division 3 is where it's at. Go
> Wahoos!!!!!

Who cares about Div. 13 or 10? Those swimmers and families in Div. 13 and 10, genius. Do you think anyone in Div. 2 or 4 cares much at all about Div. 3? And as you know, Div. 3 looks very different this year. We'll check back with you in late July to see if you are still having as much fun. Yahoooo.

spring approaches Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Who cares about Div. 13 or 10? Those swimmers and
> families in Div. 13 and 10, genius. Do you think
> anyone in Div. 2 or 4 cares much at all about Div.
> 3? And as you know, Div. 3 looks very different
> this year. We'll check back with you in late July
> to see if you are still having as much fun.
> Yahoooo.

+1
Wahoo will be crying boo hoo in late July!

NVSLTeam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every coach,
> swimmer and parent I've ever seen at a close meet
> waves their arms and screams GO! to the swimmers..
> Who cares if the swimmer can't hear the cheers,
> it's part of the excitment. But I guess that's
> lost on you..wonder why.

I think those posters are trying to point out that there's a difference between cheering and jeering. It's fine to cheer loudly all you want but calling the opposing team "losers" crosses the line. Maybe kids can be excused for bad behavior but Brandywine coaches and parents should know better. That might be allowed in PVS teams like Shark Tank but has no place in the NVSL. Set a better example for your kids Brandywine adults!

Explain again why a "team manager" is necessary when there's a team rep? Do they have a lot of money to throw around? Does the team rep not know how to be a team rep? Sorry - I don't get it.

Don't get it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Explain again why a "team manager" is necessary
> when there's a team rep? Do they have a lot of
> money to throw around? Does the team rep not know
> how to be a team rep? Sorry - I don't get it.

Not sure how other pools organize things, but the pool that we were with last summer had a head coach (with asst. coaches underneath), a team representative to the NVSL (who also was in charge of Saturday "A" meets), a treasurer, social coordinator, etc. Overseeing all of that was the team manager.

The responsibilities are quite different however I can see where some pools might be able to combine the roles. I would not be surprised however if many pools have separate people in the Team Manager and NVSL team representative positions. And it's not always about money. In many places, all of those roles are volunteer positions. If I were in charge of a team - the roles I would pay for would be Head Coach and Team Manager.

cheering vs. jeering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSLTeam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Every coach,
> > swimmer and parent I've ever seen at a close
> meet
> > waves their arms and screams GO! to the
> swimmers..
> > Who cares if the swimmer can't hear the cheers,
> > it's part of the excitment. But I guess that's
> > lost on you..wonder why.
>
> I think those posters are trying to point out that
> there's a difference between cheering and jeering.
> It's fine to cheer loudly all you want but
> calling the opposing team "losers" crosses the
> line. Maybe kids can be excused for bad behavior
> but Brandywine coaches and parents should know
> better. That might be allowed in PVS teams like
> Shark Tank but has no place in the NVSL. Set a
> better example for your kids Brandywine adults!


Yup, you're just another troll grabbing any lame opportunity to badmouth other teams.

to NVSL Team - why is it whenever anyone mentions the Shark Tank or Brandywine and how awful their pool-side manner was last summer, we're trolls???

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> losers and heckle them along with some Brandywine
> swimmers.

NVSL Team...do you think this is acceptable behavior from a coach? I think ur the troll here trying to defend ppl like that.

another view Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't get it Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Explain again why a "team manager" is necessary
> > when there's a team rep? Do they have a lot of
> > money to throw around? Does the team rep not
> know
> > how to be a team rep? Sorry - I don't get it.
>
> Not sure how other pools organize things, but the
> pool that we were with last summer had a head
> coach (with asst. coaches underneath), a team
> representative to the NVSL (who also was in charge
> of Saturday "A" meets), a treasurer, social
> coordinator, etc. Overseeing all of that was the
> team manager.
>
> The responsibilities are quite different however I
> can see where some pools might be able to combine
> the roles. I would not be surprised however if
> many pools have separate people in the Team
> Manager and NVSL team representative positions.
> And it's not always about money. In many places,
> all of those roles are volunteer positions. If I
> were in charge of a team - the roles I would pay
> for would be Head Coach and Team Manager.

That's a lot of positions your team had! How many swimmers on your team? Are the coaches and team manager from the neighborhood or recruited outside? Was your Team Manager paid or unpaid?

Do any NVSL teams have extra coaches solely for stroke mechanics? Paid or parent volunteer?

NVSL Rent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do any NVSL teams have extra coaches solely for
> stroke mechanics? Paid or parent volunteer?

I believe the answer is yes - volunteer in the case of the team we were with last year.

But this is also what drives me a bit bonkers. Frankly, NVSL coaching should be NOTHING BUT stroke mechanics, plus starts and turns. It is a short season and the kids might practice an hour a day. And no race (other than exhibition IM's) is longer than a 50.

So really, the big opportunity it seems to me is to work with younger kids (8&U, 9/10, and 11/12's) on their starts, their turns (for the 9 and ups), and tweaking their stroke. Nothing else is going to make that much difference during the 8 week season.

I have seen far too many workouts where the coaches and asst. coaches have kids warm up with a 400, then kick for 10 minutes, then do some token drills, then maybe a few sprints, then warm down. And all the while the coaches either stand on the deck and watch or talk to each other.

I believe a good coaching staff should spend a good portion of their time in the water with the kids, they should be CONSTANTLY correcting stroke technique - during the warmups, during the drills, and during the warm-down. They should practice starts and turns several times a week. NVSL is not the same as USS.

disgusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pool Rat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> > losers and heckle them along with some
> Brandywine
> > swimmers.
>
> NVSL Team...do you think this is acceptable
> behavior from a coach? I think ur the troll here

No I don't. I also don't believe it. The governing body, NVSL, has too many officials (most of them parents) and too much oversight plus a Division Coordinator to permit a team rep to get away with what you allege. It's clear that it's personal and you're trying to do as much public damage as possible. File a formal complaint. Oh wait, you'd have to give your name.

re: coaching on mechanics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSL Rent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do any NVSL teams have extra coaches solely for
> > stroke mechanics? Paid or parent volunteer?
>
> I believe the answer is yes - volunteer in the
> case of the team we were with last year.
>
> But this is also what drives me a bit bonkers.
> Frankly, NVSL coaching should be NOTHING BUT
> stroke mechanics, plus starts and turns. It is a
> short season and the kids might practice an hour a
> day. And no race (other than exhibition IM's) is
> longer than a 50.
>
> So really, the big opportunity it seems to me is
> to work with younger kids (8&U, 9/10, and 11/12's)
> on their starts, their turns (for the 9 and ups),
> and tweaking their stroke. Nothing else is going
> to make that much difference during the 8 week
> season.
>
> I have seen far too many workouts where the
> coaches and asst. coaches have kids warm up with a
> 400, then kick for 10 minutes, then do some token
> drills, then maybe a few sprints, then warm down.
> And all the while the coaches either stand on the
> deck and watch or talk to each other.
>
> I believe a good coaching staff should spend a
> good portion of their time in the water with the
> kids, they should be CONSTANTLY correcting stroke
> technique - during the warmups, during the drills,
> and during the warm-down. They should practice
> starts and turns several times a week. NVSL is not
> the same as USS.

The Organization is USA Swim, NOT USS.

re: coaching on mechanics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSL is not the same as USS.

Exactly why USS coaches should NOT coach in the NVSL. Former NVSL swimmers (homegrown coaches) know best what is needed to succeed in the NVSL.

Rivalries Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any other big rivalries to watch this summer?

From this message thread, it looks like Brandywine and Rolling Hills have a big rivalry. Too bad they're not in the same division. They should have a B meet together and invite all the Fairfax Underground viewers.

NVSL Team Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> disgusted Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pool Rat Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> > > losers and heckle them along with some
> > Brandywine
> > > swimmers.
> >
> > NVSL Team...do you think this is acceptable
> > behavior from a coach? I think ur the troll
> here
>
> No I don't. I also don't believe it. The
> governing body, NVSL, has too many officials (most
> of them parents) and too much oversight plus a
> Division Coordinator to permit a team rep to get
> away with what you allege. It's clear that it's
> personal and you're trying to do as much public
> damage as possible. File a formal complaint. Oh
> wait, you'd have to give your name.

At one meet, the division coordinator had to tell her to tone it down because she was screaming to the swimmers thoughout the events. During this meet, the announcer, who was using a microphone, could not continue announcing the swimmers' names becuase of her screaming and cheering for each of the Brandywine swimmers. She was told more than once to tone it down to no avail. The division coordinator heard plenty of verbal complaints that day and throughout the season from other div. 13 teams. FYI NVSL Team, I did give my name. I'm sure it's on a list with hundreds of others.

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NVSL Team Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > disgusted Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Pool Rat Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > She also would call some of the RH swimmers
> > > > losers and heckle them along with some
> > > Brandywine
> > > > swimmers.
> > >
> > > NVSL Team...do you think this is acceptable
> > > behavior from a coach? I think ur the troll
> > here
> >
> > No I don't. I also don't believe it. The
> > governing body, NVSL, has too many officials
> (most
> > of them parents) and too much oversight plus a
> > Division Coordinator to permit a team rep to
> get
> > away with what you allege. It's clear that
> it's
> > personal and you're trying to do as much public
> > damage as possible. File a formal complaint. Oh
> > wait, you'd have to give your name.
>
> At one meet, the division coordinator had to tell
> her to tone it down because she was screaming to
> the swimmers thoughout the events. During this
> meet, the announcer, who was using a microphone,
> could not continue announcing the swimmers' names
> becuase of her screaming and cheering for each of
> the Brandywine swimmers. She was told more than
> once to tone it down to no avail. The division
> coordinator heard plenty of verbal complaints that
> day and throughout the season from other div. 13
> teams. FYI NVSL Team, I did give my name. I'm
> sure it's on a list with hundreds of others.

total BS

Pool Rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> At one meet, the division coordinator had to tell
> her to tone it down because she was screaming to
> the swimmers thoughout the events. During this
> meet, the announcer, who was using a microphone,
> could not continue announcing the swimmers' names
> becuase of her screaming and cheering for each of
> the Brandywine swimmers. She was told more than
> once to tone it down to no avail. The division
> coordinator heard plenty of verbal complaints that
> day and throughout the season from other div. 13
> teams. FYI NVSL Team, I did give my name. I'm
> sure it's on a list with hundreds of others.

+1
Total truth.

I guess the recent results speek for themselves. I see at the JO's it was all RMSC, MACH and CUBU. The short course champ. was CUBU, RMSC and PM. Seems like
CUBU and RMSC are always on top.

***speAk***

This thread is a prime example of why some parents shouldn't dabble with message boards.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

WTF????? Just came across this thread myself and didn't realize the amount of hostility out there in the NVSL, especially among the Division 13 teams in 2010. Congrats to CUBU on winning Junior Olympics!!!!!!!

evnelson9999 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread is a prime example of why some parents
> shouldn't dabble with message boards.
>
> If you don't get it, you don't get it.


Typical northern virginia assholes...

Junior Olympic Team Scores:
CUBU 5,496 points
SHARK TANK 11 points

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Junior Olympic Team Scores:
> CUBU 5,496 points
> SHARK TANK 11 points

Compare percentage of entries, asshole. CUBU is a Nation wide team.

CUBUDOUCHE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Junior Olympic Team Scores:
> > CUBU 5,496 points
> > SHARK TANK 11 points
>
> Compare percentage of entries, asshole. CUBU is a
> Nation wide team.


And how, precisely, does one define "Nation wide" at the school that you attend?

CUBUDOUCHE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Compare percentage of entries, asshole. CUBU is a
> Nation wide team.

It's "nationwide." And how exactly is a team with facilities in DC, MD, and VA a nationwide team anyway?

Hank the Dwarf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> evnelson9999 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This thread is a prime example of why some
> parents
> > shouldn't dabble with message boards.
> >
> > If you don't get it, you don't get it.
>
>
> Typical northern virginia assholes...


Who? Me?

All this talk about teams. It is as much about the specific coaches your child works with as the team. Get recommendations.

That being said, I would still avoid a questionable team that tries to fly under the radar by showing up unregistered to meets and who gets lanespace and equipment storage without paying a rec center.

Peter DeWeese Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this talk about teams. It is as much about
> the specific coaches your child works with as the
> team. Get recommendations.
>
> That being said, I would still avoid a
> questionable team that tries to fly under the
> radar by showing up unregistered to meets and who
> gets lanespace and equipment storage without
> paying a rec center.

Which team are you referring to and how do they get away with that?

bubbles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peter DeWeese Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All this talk about teams. It is as much about
> > the specific coaches your child works with as
> the
> > team. Get recommendations.
> >
> > That being said, I would still avoid a
> > questionable team that tries to fly under the
> > radar by showing up unregistered to meets and
> who
> > gets lanespace and equipment storage without
> > paying a rec center.
>
> Which team are you referring to and how do they
> get away with that?

Peter must be talking about the Shark Tank team. Now they are getting free lane time by swimming at Brandywine pool in the NVSL.

curl burke is for swimmers who think they are fast but are really just big babies. They could be the most annoying team in the area

Wow, it's so funny how people try to start something from nothing. I have kids, who are both active in sports. Like so many other posts have stated, you have no idea what any of the charges truly are or if it's the same person. A responsible parent never pushes their child off on another adult - coach or not. It's a common known fact, that must kids are abused by family members - think about that before you make accusations...

Are you a stay at home parent or trying to live vicariously thru your child? Either way, get a life! Find something better to do then play on the internet all times of the day and night. Talk about being childish. If your child was that good, you wouldn't need to post about another team's coach - their record would be enough for you to live off of. Instead you have to try to bring someone else down to your level.....wow...again, grow up.

swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> curl burke is for swimmers who think they are fast
> but are really just big babies. They could be the
> most annoying team in the area


oh the trolling begins, if you look at the nvsl recordboards you will see that all of the record holders swim for curl buke. how do you think chesterbrook is so good? curl burke. how do you think mosby woods went from divison 8 to 4 and had a 4-1 season and won relay carnival. your awnser is curl burke. i can name a thousand ways curl burke is awsome. try me punk

Division 13 too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pool Rat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > At one meet, the division coordinator had to
> tell
> > her to tone it down because she was screaming
> to
> > the swimmers thoughout the events. During this
> > meet, the announcer, who was using a
> microphone,
> > could not continue announcing the swimmers'
> names
> > becuase of her screaming and cheering for each
> of
> > the Brandywine swimmers. She was told more than
> > once to tone it down to no avail. The division
> > coordinator heard plenty of verbal complaints
> that
> > day and throughout the season from other div.
> 13
> > teams. FYI NVSL Team, I did give my name. I'm
> > sure it's on a list with hundreds of others.
>
> +1
> Total truth.

Can someone please go the Brandywine meet this Saturday, 9AM, at the Brandywine Pool, and report back on this behavior? Or perhaps post a video? I'd go myself, but I have a life. Last year there were some kids running a weekly NVSL video blog - maybe they can go and tape the shenanigans.

CUBU is the reason Chesterbrook is good???? Try CUBU/Machine/York/Fish, punk

FFXU Unite! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Can someone please go the Brandywine meet this
> Saturday, 9AM, at the Brandywine Pool, and report
> back on this behavior? Or perhaps post a video?
> I'd go myself, but I have a life. Last year there
> were some kids running a weekly NVSL video blog -
> maybe they can go and tape the shenanigans?

Brandywine lost.

My family and I are new to the swim programs in this area and to tell everyone of you the truth, I'm embarrassed by the postings on this page. You have an option of selecting your own team and coaching staff for your child. There is no reason for anyone to personally attack any coach. Grow up!

backstroke guru Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FFXU Unite! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Can someone please go the Brandywine meet this
> > Saturday, 9AM, at the Brandywine Pool, and
> report
> > back on this behavior? Or perhaps post a video?
>
> > I'd go myself, but I have a life. Last year
> there
> > were some kids running a weekly NVSL video blog
> -
> > maybe they can go and tape the shenanigans?
>
> Brandywine lost.

All that nonsense and they did not even win their division, and barely won the Relay Carnival. Another year in Division 10 I suppose.

I guess you are one of the team that Brandywine beat. What with all the hate.. Grow up

Brandywine coaches and team rep got pissed when our team did group cheers and they don't let their own swimmers cheer..wtf

fish and mako's are only mediocre if you want proof now, look at McLean.
a few years at CUBU can turn your 13-14 boy into these monsters http://reachforthewall.com/2011/07/15/battle-in-mcsl-division-b/
scroll down to the picture. and NOOONE F&*^ with CUBU

Wow...I guess no one can say anything else bad about Brandywine or they are just haters. I checked out the NVSL results. They where moved up 3 divisions this summer, had a winning (3-2) season and the only two losses where less the 15 points...And they won there relay carnival!!! The small team with the big swimmers...looks like to me. Somebody DEFINITELY knows what they are doing over there!!! Wow. Results... speak for themselves.

Results Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow...I guess no one can say anything else bad
> about Brandywine or they are just haters. I
> checked out the NVSL results. They where moved up
> 3 divisions this summer, had a winning (3-2)
> season and the only two losses where less the 15
> points...And they won there relay carnival!!! The
> small team with the big swimmers...looks like to
> me. Somebody DEFINITELY knows what they are doing
> over there!!! Wow. Results... speak for
> themselves.


Oh, God, give it a rest.

swim dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Results Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow...I guess no one can say anything else bad
> > about Brandywine or they are just haters. I
> > checked out the NVSL results. They where moved
> up
> > 3 divisions this summer, had a winning (3-2)
> > season and the only two losses where less the
> 15
> > points...And they won there relay carnival!!!
> The
> > small team with the big swimmers...looks like
> to
> > me. Somebody DEFINITELY knows what they are
> doing
> > over there!!! Wow. Results... speak for
> > themselves.
>
>
> Oh, God, give it a rest.

I agree, give it a rest. Who the hell cares about Brandywine? Why don't you go back to school and learn how to spell? It's "they WERE moved," "two losses WERE less THAN 15 points," and "they won THEIR relay carnival."

anonyyyy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fish and mako's are only mediocre if you want
> proof now, look at McLean.
> a few years at CUBU can turn your 13-14 boy into
> these monsters
> http://reachforthewall.com/2011/07/15/battle-in-mc
> sl-division-b/
> scroll down to the picture. and NOOONE F&*^ with
> CUBU

+1

Lots of conflicting info here. Just moved to the area and was trying to find a winter swim team for my 3 kids. Is it too late to join a team? What's the deal with Shark Tank Racing Squad? Any new feedback? Our new neighbors recommended Potomac Marlins. Any others worthwhile and that allow latecomers?

newbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of conflicting info here. Just moved to the
> area and was trying to find a winter swim team for
> my 3 kids. Is it too late to join a team? What's
> the deal with Shark Tank Racing Squad? Any new
> feedback? Our new neighbors recommended Potomac
> Marlins. Any others worthwhile and that allow
> latecomers?

You can still join the Marlins. They are one of the few that have a pro-rated program. They are not the greatest but not the worst. As with any team, it depends on what coach you have.

Marlins are outstanding w/solid coaching at Cub Run and GMU

Is it unheard of for a winter swim coach to take a swimmer for private lessons? If so, where can one find a coach for a few private lessons?

newbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of conflicting info here. Just moved to the
> area and was trying to find a winter swim team for
> my 3 kids. Is it too late to join a team? What's
> the deal with Shark Tank Racing Squad? Any new
> feedback? Our new neighbors recommended Potomac
> Marlins. Any others worthwhile and that allow
> latecomers?


newbie, what was your choice?

People get serious
It is summer swim. SUMMER swim where the kids do 50s. YES 50s

Most good USA swim teams are not focused on 50s once you turn 11

There is only one 50 in hs swim.
And no offense but the BEST coaches are PVS coaches for whom this is a profession. I have been involved in swimming for about ten years now and have one girl doing year round for 7 years now. It is ALL about the coach.

Who cares about Brandywine

my goodness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Who cares about Brandywine

Brandywine has lost all three meets so far this summer.

Flip Turn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my goodness Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Who cares about Brandywine
>
> Brandywine has lost all three meets so far this
> summer.

Make that four losses for a 0-4 record and 4th in Relay Carnival. Guess they are going back down the NVSL ladder next year.

I'm also looking for a good winter swim program. Am looking at CUBU, Fish and Machine, but would also be interested in private swimming lessons. One poster asked is it reasonable for private coaches and if so how do you go about finding one and getting lane rental? This option would also interest me. Anyone know anything about doing this? Is it even feasible?

FFX Rec. centers do not allow outside "private" instructors to rent lanes. In addition, teams are not permitted to do lessons in the facilities. This is one of the reasons Machine is building a swim school for all levels in Vienna. It is a private center owned and operated by them for lessons, not the competitive practices.
I started with CUBU for my oldest at 8 and moved him to Machine at 10. I have now graduated two out with scholarships (they train in the summer with MACH) and two more coming through. Needless to say we have been very happy with Machine.

After reading all this crap, makes me glad we swim in the country club league. If you want a FUN enviroment for summer swim, that where it is.

Summer swim folks, go start your own thread. This is for "WINTER SWIM TEAMS"

Who cares about summer swim? Any kid can swim a 50. Summer swim parents need to get a life! Quit trying to live through your kid. Should I go start the thread for you? Go away fun, happy time summer swimmers.

Thank you very much! I appreciate the information and will definitely look into Machine.

long time swim member Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FFX Rec. centers do not allow outside "private"
> instructors to rent lanes. In addition, teams are
> not permitted to do lessons in the facilities.
> This is one of the reasons Machine is building a
> swim school for all levels in Vienna. It is a
> private center owned and operated by them for
> lessons, not the competitive practices.
> I started with CUBU for my oldest at 8 and moved
> him to Machine at 10. I have now graduated two
> out with scholarships (they train in the summer
> with MACH) and two more coming through. Needless
> to say we have been very happy with Machine.


Machine does turn out some good swimmers, especailly in distance. What part of Vienna will the new facility be located?

Go away summer swim maniacs. 50s are for wimps
PVS is where really swimming happens

Everyone is over Shark Tank.
They don't swim.

Agree go away summer swim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go away summer swim maniacs. 50s are for wimps
> PVS is where really swimming happens
>
> Everyone is over Shark Tank.
> They don't swim.

You mean PVS is where sexual abuse of minors happens like Rick Curl of Curl-Burke:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/curl-burke-founder-rick-curl-faces-hearing-on-former-swimmers-account-of-underage-sexual-relationship/2012/07/25/gJQAg78q8W_story.html

After a mediocre year with a Loudoun based club, my daughter tried out a couple of clubs (CUBU & FISH) . She fell in love with the program, coaches, and teammates at the FISH (http://pvfish.org/) and started swimming for them about 3 months ago. She has dropped significant time in all her strokes and finaled in all her events (BR, IM, FR) at JOs, qualifying for Zones in two events. The FISH also won third at JOs (aThe FISH with only 300+ swimmers [including mini program], they outscored much larger clubs MACH, SNOW, PM, etc.) Needless to say, she is extremely happy with the FISH and would recommend it for any serious swimmer. Good luck with your search.

How many parents will pull their kids out of the CUBU program now? What a shame, overall it is a decent program.

swim parent too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many parents will pull their kids out of the
> CUBU program now? What a shame, overall it is a
> decent program.

I'm pulling mine out. Changing the name of the club from the founder-rapist to the CUBU intials won't do much to keep its reputation. All those years, Rick Curl was sending hush money to his victim's family from his business, i.e., registration fees paid by unsuspecting parents. Meanwhile, the victim withdrew from college, lost her swimming scholarship, and suffered mental problems while Rick Curl went off to Australia probably to prey on other young teen swimmers. He's a rich man now instead of the incarcerated felon he should be.

Dear disqusted
Are you seriously going to remove your kid cause of something two decades old?
If you happy with team stay.
If you are stupid enough to think this is club specific then I feel bad for your kid

the Machine swim school will be in downtown Vienna. Mill Street & Church Street. It is under construction right now and will open in late September.
Info is at www.machineswimschool.com

Dear Disqusted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear disqusted
> Are you seriously going to remove your kid cause
> of something two decades old?
> If you happy with team stay.
> If you are stupid enough to think this is club
> specific then I feel bad for your kid

Considering the guy they put in charge (Pete Morgan) is the same coach who likely knew of the abuse and did nothing about it....I'd do the same.

There is NO PROOF Pete Morgan knew.

Does anyone posting here try to tell her to drop it? Or know and talked to her since this came out? What physical proof is there? The NDA is not proof. Millions of people sign NDA's and pay money to a person or co. FOr a personal or business reason it is to protect both sides from current and future legal disputes. Signing a paper or giving someone money is simply a business or personal deal it is never proof, it says in the NDA it is not admission of guilt by Curl and female may not sue or criminal charge or try to punish him or his co. or associates. So she, the media, police and courts all are violating NDA.She will be forced to repay NDA plus damages(could be millions) plus NDA means no civil or criminal case against Curl can proceed. Why doesn't someone on here who knows her and her parents and atty ask them questions like where is the proof? There is no case. She has never been abused.In NDA she said sex at 16. In Maryland Age of Consent is 16. So it is legal. Now she says she lied in NDA and changes her story to 12,13,14. She has lied and changed stories repeatedly. Remeber she, atty, USA Swimming are all punishing Curl to gain themselves millions of dollars. She admits to doing nothing for child abuse. She never called police. Never tried to leave Curl or his club. She is simply taking revenge on him and abusing him. He has the right not to be convicted in the media and to fairly present his side. If he stops working due to this case Virginia loses a taxpayer and employer and Maryland gains another debtor if he goes to jail. He may be innocent. If he isn't he has been punished enough. All critics stop condemning him. Would you want to be treated like this in public? Isn't it strange she never tried to stop going to Curl Club if Curl tried to start a relationship with her if she did not consent? Did any one here on this site know her and tried to get her to drop the charges? Or is anyone here telling her to press charges? 15 years or more is not fair to anyone except murders. If she trained for the Olympics why is she having sex and risking pregnancy? She can't go to the Olympics if pregnant or has a baby! If she goes to church her church is probably opposed to pre-marital sex. Why didn't she just say no or just tell Curl she switched clubs? He may have stayed at her house not for sex. Why would he have sex with her when he had a girlfriend then got married? Why stay at Currin's house when he is married? Why didn't wife go with him on out of state meets? How did Currin get contraceptives? Why was no sex exam at the police station and a police report done after one such unwanted activity if it was unwanted? Where is the actual writing from the diary? If she did not want it to end why did she write about Curl and sex in her diary and why did parents read the diary? She can't keep a secret now. Who believes she kept a secret as a teen? Maybe he just went to her house or stayed the night to BABYSIT her! Maybe he kicked her out of his club and for revenge she claimed child abuse even those there was no relationship and she made it up for revenge. NDA is not ever admission of any agreement or guilt it is for to disputing persons or companies to stop dispute period. No evidence! No witnesses! Made up story! I am betting on Curl being right and he deserves to be treated first rate as he has treated her and everyone else. Also for those who don't know - many adults like Curl who tried to punish a child or teen found that child or teen would retaliate and would admit it telling the adult if you try to punish me or tell my parents I will tell them you are a child abuser. So the adult ends up being falsely accused of a crime. Many innocent teachers hhave had this happen as well as many parents who divorce and one of the divorced adults charge their ex-spouse with child abuse. Many plaintiffs and alleged victims are liars and are the real criminals. Keep that in mind. One day that can happen to you and you would not want everyone to assume you are guilty of such a crime. He is innocent and I believe he will be cleared. Put on this site what her answer is when you ask her did she make this all up just for money and to ruin Curl and where is all the pysical evidence as proof beyond a reasonable doubt? How does she afford to pay her atty? She and her parents and her atty are the real felons I am telling you. Give him and Noah a chance to clear their names. Just as you would want if ever charged with any crime.

Curl is Innocent. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone posting here try to tell her to drop
> it? Or know and talked to her since this came out?
> What physical proof is there? The NDA is not
> proof. Millions of people sign NDA's and pay money
> to a person or co. FOr a personal or business
> reason it is to protect both sides from current
> and future legal disputes. Signing a paper or
> giving someone money is simply a business or
> personal deal it is never proof, it says in the
> NDA it is not admission of guilt by Curl and
> female may not sue or criminal charge or try to
> punish him or his co. or associates. So she, the
> media, police and courts all are violating NDA.She
> will be forced to repay NDA plus damages(could be
> millions) plus NDA means no civil or criminal case
> against Curl can proceed. Why doesn't someone on
> here who knows her and her parents and atty ask
> them questions like where is the proof? There is
> no case. She has never been abused.In NDA she said
> sex at 16. In Maryland Age of Consent is 16. So it
> is legal. Now she says she lied in NDA and changes
> her story to 12,13,14. She has lied and changed
> stories repeatedly. Remeber she, atty, USA
> Swimming are all punishing Curl to gain themselves
> millions of dollars. She admits to doing nothing
> for child abuse. She never called police. Never
> tried to leave Curl or his club. She is simply
> taking revenge on him and abusing him. He has the
> right not to be convicted in the media and to
> fairly present his side. If he stops working due
> to this case Virginia loses a taxpayer and
> employer and Maryland gains another debtor if he
> goes to jail. He may be innocent. If he isn't he
> has been punished enough. All critics stop
> condemning him. Would you want to be treated like
> this in public? Isn't it strange she never tried
> to stop going to Curl Club if Curl tried to start
> a relationship with her if she did not consent?
> Did any one here on this site know her and tried
> to get her to drop the charges? Or is anyone here
> telling her to press charges? 15 years or more is
> not fair to anyone except murders. If she trained
> for the Olympics why is she having sex and risking
> pregnancy? She can't go to the Olympics if
> pregnant or has a baby! If she goes to church her
> church is probably opposed to pre-marital sex. Why
> didn't she just say no or just tell Curl she
> switched clubs? He may have stayed at her house
> not for sex. Why would he have sex with her when
> he had a girlfriend then got married? Why stay at
> Currin's house when he is married? Why didn't wife
> go with him on out of state meets? How did Currin
> get contraceptives? Why was no sex exam at the
> police station and a police report done after one
> such unwanted activity if it was unwanted? Where
> is the actual writing from the diary? If she did
> not want it to end why did she write about Curl
> and sex in her diary and why did parents read the
> diary? She can't keep a secret now. Who believes
> she kept a secret as a teen? Maybe he just went to
> her house or stayed the night to BABYSIT her!
> Maybe he kicked her out of his club and for
> revenge she claimed child abuse even those there
> was no relationship and she made it up for
> revenge. NDA is not ever admission of any
> agreement or guilt it is for to disputing persons
> or companies to stop dispute period. No evidence!
> No witnesses! Made up story! I am betting on Curl
> being right and he deserves to be treated first
> rate as he has treated her and everyone else. Also
> for those who don't know - many adults like Curl
> who tried to punish a child or teen found that
> child or teen would retaliate and would admit it
> telling the adult if you try to punish me or tell
> my parents I will tell them you are a child
> abuser. So the adult ends up being falsely accused
> of a crime. Many innocent teachers hhave had this
> happen as well as many parents who divorce and one
> of the divorced adults charge their ex-spouse with
> child abuse. Many plaintiffs and alleged victims
> are liars and are the real criminals. Keep that in
> mind. One day that can happen to you and you would
> not want everyone to assume you are guilty of such
> a crime. He is innocent and I believe he will be
> cleared. Put on this site what her answer is when
> you ask her did she make this all up just for
> money and to ruin Curl and where is all the
> pysical evidence as proof beyond a reasonable
> doubt? How does she afford to pay her atty? She
> and her parents and her atty are the real felons I
> am telling you. Give him and Noah a chance to
> clear their names. Just as you would want if ever
> charged with any crime.

What is criminal is your support of Curl. He signed the agreement long ago essentially admitting what he did. The reason minors can't consent to sex w/adults is because they are not mature enough to do so. The fact that is was consensual was irrelevant. Ugh - your post is ridiculous.

Isn't this old news?

I've been around swimming for a long time as both a child/teen, a summer coach, and now as a parent. My daughter took an interest in swimming very early so last summer I began 3 months of research of local year round swim clubs, asking only those whose opinions I respected, and visiting a number of clubs/having my daughter attend their tryouts. This is what I found:

Machine- Powerful team that shows results, however I wasn't ready for my 7 yr old to swim 3 days/week for 1.5 hrs/day- that was just my own preference since we still do other sports (FYI: They are a strong team at meets we have been to this winter)

Marlins- My summer swim coach recommended them but a few friends were not happy with the Oak Marr branch, stating that the coaches had their swimmers swim a lot of laps without much instruction. I wanted to attend their practices at Wakefield because I have confidence in my summer coach's opinion but I was too late as it was August- definitely worth checking out again as they were very friendly, responsive, informative, and impressive in their messages back to me

FBST (Fort Belvoir)- Great, kind coach (Mark), not much pressure, therefore not as significant results, but great for a swimmer into swimming for the fun of it. Low burn out rate. They are very flexible with practices- you can attend other practices at other facilities if you're unable to make your regular time. Great price too!

SDS- I've heard from a number of people, including family members who have been with them, that they are good for the younger years, ie up to age 12. I know a few of the coaches who are very kind and their swimmers like them, but I also know a number of people who have never got over the changes made when Victor left years ago

York- Close friends of ours love York- they're at the Oak Marr branch- Sorry, they're out of my driving range so I didn't research them further

Shark Tank- Small but powerful team. My younger daughter happens to have swim lessons when Shark Tank practices so I see them in action each week and the swimmers on the team look very enthusiastic about going to practice. Our friends have a son on the team and they love it there- and the son's stroke is flawless. Lance is known for having very high expectations and his students meet that level. Yes, he is strict so it all depends on if that works for your child. I know a number of young kids who have had him as their Stroke Mechanics instructor through Parktakes and they are all very solid swimmers. He would be a great fit for one of my daughters who responds well to strict, high expectations. I spoke with Patty about a spot on her team, and she was very kind and informative. We didn't end up with them because my daughter would need to attend three practices a week (we wanted only two) and practices were each at a different site and too late in the evening for us- but the schedule might be perfect for someone else. I personally prefer a larger team that is divided into small groups- but some people prefer a small team. Too bad John is moving- he seemed like a fun, strong, animated coach whom the swimmers enjoyed.

Makos- I know a number of people who have said over the years that practices are too often cancelled due to the coach being out or swim meets at GMU. A few years ago a cousin swam with them and the coach often didn't show up so a parent would often fill in. My daughter tried out with them and while she was faster and more stroke efficient than swimmers a few years older, they would not budge on allowing her to swim in age group 1 strictly based on age (they wanted her in their high level minis program). However, my daughter's soccer coach has kids on their team who swim just for fun and exercise- not too competitively- and really likes the team and coaches (although they were surprised to hear that our current team has only 3-4 kids per lane and said theirs are at least 8 kids per lane). Some people love having practices at GMU, others say it's very inconvenient.

FISH- I know a number of families who don't want to commit to official year-round swimming with 2 or more practices plus meets. So they have their kids in FISH's Saturday clinic at Audrey Moore and love it. It's an hour of lap swimming with some refinement of stroke technique. I know another swimmer who has transitioned over to their regular team and loves it. She plays travel soccer and FISH is accommodating with her soccer schedule.

CUBU/NCAP- Great reputation, strong coaches, convenient location (you can just drop your kids off in front of the small club- Burke Racquet). This is the team we decided on and it has been a perfect fit for us. There are only 3-4 swimmers per lane with 6 lanes and 2-3 very attentive coaches. They have their eyes on the swimmers at all times and fine tune the smallest details. Only negative is that communications to parents could be improved, but that is nothing compared to the quality swimming my daughter receives. She has dropped significant time in a year, but I'm sure many swimmers do in all clubs due to the fact that they are in the water so much. We are happy here, but that is not to say we wouldn't be happy somewhere else too. FYI: They're about $1600 for two days of swimming/week for the whole year minus a break in mid-late August (most clubs end in May), and price includes all meet fees and t-shirts, caps, and membership to the club. That is about standard cost if you take into account they run through summer months- early AM practices so you can still swim on a summer swim team.

Again, it really depends on your swimmer and their goals. Is their goal to have fun/increase exercise as a recreational swimmer or to be highly competitive? Do they respond to strict or more easy-going coaching styles? Do you want more or less practices/week and does your child want to continue in other sports? I suggest you just pop in to various clubs and watch practices from a distance and see if the coaching style suits your child. Ask people whose opinions you respect. Understand that many people have strong opinions about certain clubs but go see for yourself. Go to various tryouts, get a vibe, and ask your child what they thought. My daughter was very good about telling me what she liked/disliked about each tryout. Also, find a place that is convenient... that matters so much.

Were you concerned about recent ecents

No. None of our kids have any coaches that were around that long ago. My brother swam with Curl Burke during that time and he had no concerns then or now for the Burke branch.

na



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2013 04:14PM by Nova_lifer.

Since it's been a while since this subject has been visited where do winter teams stand now?

Here's what I hear-
Machine up and coming
Marlins struggling
NCAP staying strong
Makos doing well
RMSC still assholes
York just not that into it
Snow not bad

Don't over think it and fight your urge to be a crazy swim team parent

Don't over think it and fight your urge to be a crazy swim team parent

New to the area.

I looked at PVS web sites but would like real people feed back, swimmers and parents.

thanks

It depends on what you are looking for. My own kids did Winter Swim at Wakefield Rec center through their summer swim team. It was a once a week thing, not competitive at all. It was just enough to keep them in the water and helped to maintain their swim skills and conditioning over the winter.

What level of winter swim are you hoping to find?

something that has an advance level in there program for a college bound swimmer...probably looking at getting into a top DII or middle of the road DI

9NbdV

ex-NVSL Swimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I swam for NVSL (summer swim) for 12 years and did
> a number of Winter swim programs including:
>
> Solitar
> York Swim Club
> FISH
>
> I'd recommend all of them.
>
> I've never heard of CUBU or MACH but have heard
> good things about MAKOS.
>
> Really it all comes down to the coach. You could
> sign up with a fantastic organization but if the
> coach running your child's practices isn't
> watching and improving their stroke it'll be
> useless.
>
> Pick the one that meets at your closest local REC
> center. Driving the kids around 3x a week to a
> far-away place is a pain in the ass.

Make sure you meet with all prospective teams and observe a practice, talk to parents that are there, gauge the level of interaction between swimmers and coaches, in all lanes. Gauge the level of intensity of the parents, if they seem too intense, which is really hard to avoid in this area, I would pause and speak to more parents to get a feel for the team. Try to choose a pool close to home, as you will be spending A LOT of your life there. I can recommend the MACHINE, long term (10+ years with the team) and full-time coaches and team owners, who honestly want your children to succeed. In the end you can have the best team, but a poor coach or coaching fit with your child.

I second all of the above, except the FISH recommendation. As my kids would say, "10 out of 10 wouldn't recommend." Cliquish, INTENSE, crazy pool hours and locations, and just a generally terrible overall experience. Some nice coaches, but an overall experience that really impacted our year because my children were were so unhappy. Just a general disrespect showed to athletes that weren't the fastest of the fast or a coaches' personal favorite.