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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ef u place ()
Date: January 24, 2011 05:44PM

A new low, excusing the hateful and vicious acts of the school adminstrators with the same lame-ass "only following regulations" excuse the nazis used.No wonder people go off the deep end consistantly in Fairfax.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WOW.... ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:06PM

Really????? That's completely unnecessary and inappropriate!!!! Nick's family is probably in grieving right now and you really have no right to be making judgement about someone else. He was a very nice guy.... and considering the stuff u posted u shouldnt be talking. You sound like a HORRIBLE person. I feel bad for your parents cuz they have to put up with a kid like. i also feel sad for Nick's parent but only bcuz they have lost a wonderful person......

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WOW.... ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:12PM

THAT PREVIOUS MESSAGE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR "A Friend"

A Friend wrote:



>Darwinism 1 - creationist 0

>Oh and if you believe God and all that shit, nick is probably in hell burning

>right now for being a flaming homosexual. Survival of the fittest, mentally and

>physically.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:33PM

I am a sophomore at Woodson high school under the supervision of Mr. Jeff Yost. I know his daughter, and I have been around his other two children as well. Mr. Yost is a perfectly reasonable man who was just following the guidelines that go with his job. Knowing Nick Stuban personally, he was depressed when he moved to Fairfax high school because of bullies that he had to face. Nick was an amazing guy, so please, show him some respect. I know he didn't blame anyone for his depression, and he was such a nice kid who never stopped smiling when I knew him. He could light up a room and make everyone laugh instantaneously. I ask all of you to please show respect to Nick as well as Mr. Yost because Mr. Yost was just doing his job. Woodson students have been greatly affected by his death, and we are all trying or best to cope with our loss as I'm sure Fairfax students are. Please, don't blame our principal for this. He is a wonderful, fair principal with a wonderful family. I ask all of you to please get these preconceived notions out of your head, and stop looking for someone to blame. Nick's death is a tragic loss to all of us here at Woodson high. Please, show some respect to both Nick and Mr. Yost. Rest in peace, Nick. We miss you so much.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Liz is a total drunk ()
Date: January 24, 2011 07:43PM

The above poster is right. I have a question for you? Where have you been? She has posted SO many e-mails about her drinking I am shocked more people are not mad.

This is the SAME women who can expel kids in FCPS and she is hung over half the time.

Where is the outrage?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:01PM

Liz is a total drunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Where is the outrage?

You Liz haters need to take your sad asses back to the Collusion thread and play around with your FOIA emails.

Now, shoo

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drain Bamage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:35PM

Liz is a total speech-slurring, pants-wetting, fall-down drunk. You pathetic liz supporters need to go back to the Collusio9n thread and play around with all liz's FOIA requests.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: BeemThere ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:48PM

Does anyone know what rural counties in Virginia do about transferring "expelled" students around to other schools? Oris it an automatic out when the nearest next school is miles and miles away?

For the people who think transferring to another school is no big deal-- it is. Not only is it traumatic for the student, but the whole family. I am not even talking about the parents who have to calculate cross county travel. If other children in the family attend the same school, the expelled student is not allowed to attend their athletic events, plays, graduations etc- any school event whether it is held on that school property or not. That ban remains in effect until the student is over 22 years old I believe.

It is a policy that impacts the entire family, not justthe expelled student.

And for the remaining students at the HS, it is sort of like a "then there was none" policy. You never know when the axe might fall on you for simply KNOWING or being near an expelled student.

I would compare it to being shunned in the Amish Community. Its like a death so no onder a kid would make it their final step as well.

Maybe this policy is justified if there is an issue with violence or threats thereof, but the most likely scenario is the student expelled for drugs/alcohol - often on flimsy heresy evidence that would not stand up in a Court of Law.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: adhkjsdk ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:09PM

Just realize it is no one fault. You can blame as many people as we want, but just realize that this is a shame. I knew Nick from Boy Scouts and he was a very kind person with a huge heart. He would always greet you with a Hi ya' anytime. Give respect for him and his family who is suffering immensely.

Please stop all this speculation and for those who don't know him, in my opinion you have no room to speak. You are making an issue and trying to use him a "proof" of how bad FCPS is. It's not the administrators fault nor Mr.Yosts fault.

It's no ones fault.

We could only wish to talk to him.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:19PM

Drain Bamage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz is a total speech-slurring, pants-wetting,
> fall-down drunk. You pathetic liz supporters need
> to go back to the Collusio9n thread and play
> around with all liz's FOIA requests.


^^
Typical Clifton class(less)

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPSProudparents ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:38PM

Nick was a kind young man who loved Woodson Football. He tragically ended his life. Jeff Yost is an educator and father - it is very shallow to try to blame him for Nick's passing. May Nick's soul be blessed, may his Father and Mother have the strength to endure a pain no person should feel and may all the young men and women at Woodson realize that no problem, no feeling, no trouble is worth ending your life. Nick is gone, let us pray this never occurs again.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drain Bamage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:40PM

Dan Bramage wrote:
> Liz is a total speech-slurring, pants-wetting,
> fall-down drunk. You pathetic liz supporters need
> to go back to the Collusio9n thread and play
> around with all liz's FOIA requests.


^^
Typical Clifton class(less)

Typical non-Cliftonvulgar peasant. Now shoo....

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Jert ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:43PM

Ouch! Thgat was ruff. But Dane Bramage deserved it; he/she is more than a little vulgar.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Faith ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:45PM

WOW - Darwinism 1 - I think not! This Universe is far too perfect, the air, the rain, the intrinsic feelings and even the saddness we experience are not the result of some random accident. If we know anything with our limited capcity it's that a system cannot occur out of nothing. There is too much in terms of DNA, order, etc for this to all have been "a fluke". May I pose a question - why did only some apes evolve and others didn't and even if you believe in evolution, don't you think there is something greater at work.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: One of Nick's teamates ()
Date: January 24, 2011 10:25PM

Stop these dumb arguments. Its just distasteful and hurtful to Nick. He was a great guy, and a great teammate. If you can't realize that then just leave. Nick will always be in our hearts and his family is in our prayers at woodson.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson Student ()
Date: January 24, 2011 10:25PM

There is nothing wrong with the zero tolerance system in fcps. it's written clearly in the SR&R the consequences of certain actions, and Nick was at fault and got the consequence written in the SR&R rules for his action. His suicide was a tragedy and my condolences are with his family and friends, but lets not play the blame game. Being sent to another school would not cause a person to commit suicide. It's clear there must have been something going on before then. Instead of attempting to point the finger, we should pray for Nick Stuban's friends and family and honor his memory.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Neighbor ()
Date: January 24, 2011 10:41PM

I saw him like a month ago walking home with a friend laughing and smiling now may he rest in peace and all my prayers go out to him and his family may he rest in peace

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: left gaurd ()
Date: January 24, 2011 11:17PM

Stop with these arguments about all this crap
Stuban was a great teammate and a fun kid respect him or leave

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Stoodson Wudent ()
Date: January 24, 2011 11:19PM

There is nothing right with the zero tolerance system in fcps. it's an utterly bogus and blatantlyhypocritical document, and the attack on was a cruel result of the senseless and vicous zero-tolerance policy enforced by the fcps gestapo. Nick's minor infractions, something that many fcps administrators have undoubtdly perpetrated themselves in their quite imperfect youth. His suicide was a tragedy and my condolences are with his family and friends, so lets absolutey place the the blame preciselly where it belongs; with the fcps hearings office. Being bullied by the fcps administration and sent to another school would significantly contribute to severe depression and could lead a vulnerable and defenseless 15 year old to commit suicide. In addition to correcting the ugliness that is the fcps discipline policies, we should pray for Nick Stuban's friends and family and honor his memory.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: escaped from woodson ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:49AM

my 2 cents.
yost was a douche when I had attended w.t.woodson, at the time he was assigned the task of being a menial sheep herder tending to the flock of LD/ED students he elegantly called monkeys and freaks to their faces. I remember this experience well as he mistakenly assumed that just because I was friends with most of the "labled disabled" students and decided to reveal his inner nature. On more days than I can count he tried to treat me with the same disrespect that he showed those students then by calling me a freak and chimpo to my face. He on the occasional monday would actually try to have me suspended for waiting for my bus to go to the "academy classes" claiming that I had skipped school and had left the grounds early...

yost and the other so called administrators only cared if a ap student was at risk of not showing up on its academic or gasp transfer to TJ. In all honesty they preferred to have overstressed students so they could claim their teachers must be working them so hard to be ready for college.

often unless the bully in the fight was ED or LD, the fighting was ignored, if the bullying happened to an AP student they treated it like a possible columbine.
I can firmly say this was not by mistake the school administrators knew what was happening in their school provided no help unless you were chosen GT, and almost encouraged the ed/ld students to be as filthy and violent as possible so he could get more accommodations for remedying a problem thru transferring. It was ingenious, simply torture a student enough that they get labeled, then continue the abuse till they go to quander or ceader and then if any student tries to stand up to the system they suspend everyone until they learn their place.

If yost has continued developing as a human being on the same path he was on then, than woodson has probably descended even further into chemical high where there are only 3 solutions to a troublesome student, medication, labeling and transfer.

it was pretty dramatic the amount of students on heavy prescriptions when I was going there, having so few who had parents that cared about their minds that the total amount of prescription free students in my class could be counted by hand.

four of my personal friends were expelled from w.t.woodson on shaky reasoning yet at their academy classes at other schools they were excelling.


I wont give yost a break, I remember his shit well, and the pair of balls he had when he told me to keep my big monkey lips shut and go back to "BSR" with the rest of my classmates staring on knowing that not one administrator would believe the word of a student labeled ed..


thank god we had the gambling ring, the pot ,the shrooms, lsd on rare occasions,wendys and an italian resturant accross the street and yes the coke and vodka back then, and the planetarium where we consumed things without fear...
and it was always so entertaining that they could not figure out the shrooms were grown on the school grounds that there was always pot because there were teachers selling it. and furthermore to burst any bubble about how it Is and always will be at woodson. the best words i ever learned from any teacher there was from a teacher I wont name for his sake who simply said " its high school not democracy at best this is an autocracy bent on keeping you in your place"


I can only imagine what woodsoon became after yost became principal but it is obvious to me that the shit that went on then still goes on now because sadly another student lost their minds in the building where they wont stop tinkering with our chemistry.

sadly, he lost the fight staying alive. but if someone wants to claim that yost was the nice guy in this, YEAH RIGHT, I bet it would not take much to see that the administrators prefer to railroad kids rather than teach, why else would so many fairfax county students be on speed, either it be the Ritalin or black beauty.


I feel disgusted at imagining that subhuman trying to fake empathy, the only way that creature feels bad is because he knows he could have stopped a students death by acting like a human being instead he acted as his position commanded him, show no mercy show no respect, and if that kids crying he must be emotionally disturbed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DefendingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:51AM

To that person who told me that Fairfax isn't a Lifetime movie...I KNOW THAT. I'm perfectly capable of knowing what goes on. If you read colonialsftw's post, he/she stated that y'all wouldn't be listening to us because we're from TJ, and in "a little bubble".

Well, NEWSFLASH. Although I may go to TJ, I still live in Fairfax. I still know the families and people who are affected by these kinds of tragedies. And when I mean tragedies, I'm not just talking about Stuban's death. I'm talking about all these haters constantly bashing Jeff Yost, a well-respected man in the community, as well as his family. And you all claim to be the grown-ups. Guess what? You all need to GROW UP.

It's more than likely (highly probable, actually) that there's more than one contributing factor to depression and suicide. Kids make mistakes, but they are responsible for them. The removal from Woodson was harsh, yes, but you can't start pointing fingers at people and blaming them for someone's DEATH when all they did was do what has been clearly stated in the SR&R for a while. The Yosts are just as sad as any other family about Stuban's passing, so PLEASE RESPECT THAT.

And for those of you who say Woodson has got it bad because of Jeff Yost, take a look inside my school. If you're caught cheating, BAM, you're gone. Far worse than at all the other schools, I'd say. You copy the answers from someone else? Dr. Glazer and the administration will send you packing. And the reputation you have to hold is a pretty bad one, too. So don't just assume we don't know anything because we're TJ kids.

Also, comparing the school administrators to Nazis? Wow. Immature, much? Other than completely bogus and inaccurate?

Oh, and for the person who made the stereotypical comment about going to work on studying for the SATs? Really? I thought you were supposed to be an "adult". Immature, don't you think? Don't worry, I've been accepted into college, I don't have to worry about those anymore. Well, I better go, gotta work on some GeoSystems homework!

And God Bless all you Woodson students. This must be really hard for you guys.

RIP Nicholas Stuban.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: AttackingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 25, 2011 02:37AM

Also, stating that comparing the school administrators to Nazis is immature, as well as completely bogus and inaccurate? Pffft..the comparison is perfectly appriate and to suggest otherwise is completeyl immature, bogus and inaccurate.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: escaped from woodson ()
Date: January 25, 2011 02:46AM

"So don't just assume we don't know anything because we're TJ kids."

I don't just assume you don't know anything. I observe that you know nearly nothing at all despite being a TJ kid ,I must however assume that that college you got accepted into probably has "Community" preceding college in its name.


the SR&R was a way to remove arguments and parents ability to appeal decisions in discipline situations, instead of having to treat students like children, the SR&R is forced onto the student without any choice except to decent from the Sr&R by leaving the school and being sent to private schooling, so to those parents and students who cannot afford the private system there is no choice in agreeing to their draconian pact. the language that the administrators use when describing the SR&R is akin to someone talking about a contract so that when a student breaches their rules they can act as though the student fully understood the contract and understood their waiver of rights. the whole point of the SR&R is to allow the administrators to pass off any blame for their lack of understanding in a situation, all they simply have to say is, well you knew the rules you signed the contract and you loose. but if you really stopped to think did any teacher or administrator say, oh this is a binding contract please take the time to read over the entire document word for word with an attorney present because this can impact how we will treat you for the time you are in the system contractually.

if there was no SR&R there would have to be administrators who would have to actually take responsibility for their administrative practices. and could choose options of discipline that wont result in the alienation. and possibly become the target of blame or action if its found they were in fact the ones who were wrong in their decisions.

even when i was going to hs, they had the SR&R yet I was always amazed at the *AP and GT kids* who got to have the rules bent and the *normal kids* who were told you should have known what this vague regulation meant before accepting the SR&R contract (that technically nobody ever read because the teachers when i went to school only wanted you to sign the paper and not to have time to read it by making the students sign right before leaving for the day.) It was even more tragic to imagine that for the labeled ED students, who at that point should be questioned if they understood what reality is let alone rules when the administrators would tell them that they don't believe they are smart enough for a normal classroom yet adequately equipped mentally to agree to the SR&R as though it was understandable by even someone mentally retarded.

they can claim what they want but the entire goal of the system in Fairfax county public schools is to promote the tiny percentage of curve busting GT and AP students by disenfranchising the students that could use a real education by further dividing the students into mainstream ap gt ED and LD. so that so called smart students like yourself can go to TJ while most of the true gifted geniuses of fairfax county are simply looking forward to taking their place in poverty working the fry vat at mcdonalds instead of on jet propulsion at nasa thanks to a school system that tends to ostracize any student who cannot improve the vital statistics that allow FCPS to continue to make money.

any student that does not improve a statistic the county wants to see is aggressively dealt with as to not impact the vital budget. i.e. any student who is caught with pot potentially makes the school look bad, so they must stop every student who has done pot from effecting the statistics for that school by kicking them out before they can repeat offend and cause budget cuts in the school.

or like cheating, its an ugly statistic to have students caught cheating, so it helps the school more to eject anyone *CAUGHT* cheating, and ignore the rest who are cheating without being identified so that the statistic that the county will use makes cheating not look as prevalent as it really is. because if the statistics of cheating became noticeably bad compared to other schools it could lead to teachers being fired and the respect of the school to crumble.

so instead of trying to curb the problems of the school, they simply sweep it off to another school and off of their statistic, despite knowing very well that the damage done to the student will far outweigh the value of statistics making it appear that the school is performing above average.

but alas, it is only until someone dies and becomes a statistic that the system and its administrators truly get the scrutiny they deserve by taking their stance of zero tolerance.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: asksdlkn ()
Date: January 25, 2011 06:41AM

Escaped From Woodson: You obviously dont understand the situation. What ever happened to respect. Respect for Nick and for Mr.Yost. Quit hiding behind a veil and if you have a true problem with how things are run then send an email to Mr.Yost. Personaly I think your just bitching about how unfair school is and how bad it is. Well grow up man. Im a senior at woodson and knew nick, who was a great kid, and I know Mr.Yost who can sometimes be harsh on kids, but is a very caring person. If you have a problem then talk to him face to face or send him an email.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: buba ()
Date: January 25, 2011 08:29AM

RE:I am a sophomore at Woodson high school under the supervision of Mr. Jeff Yost. I know his daughter, and I have been around his other two children as well. Mr. Yost is a perfectly reasonable man who was just following the guidelines that go with his job. Knowing Nick Stuban personally, he was depressed when he moved to Fairfax high school because of bullies that he had to face. Nick was an amazing guy, so please, show him some respect. I know he didn't blame anyone for his depression, and he was such a nice kid who never stopped smiling when I knew him. He could light up a room and make everyone laugh instantaneously. I ask all of you to please show respect to Nick as well as Mr. Yost because Mr. Yost was just doing his job

A sophomore????? Yost and other adult supporters stop the phoney posts. Sophomores don't write like this. Yost and FCPS are shaking in their boots.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Get a grip ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:27PM

Instead of griping about school policies and personnel, why don't folks educate themselves about teen suicide and try to prevent it from happening to anyone else's child or your own. This boy's death is a terrible loss. Period. And, I can guarantee that none of us knows the whole story, except perhaps his parents. That being said, nobody is to blame.

Here are some things to consider when trying to make sense out of a senseless death:

90% of people who attempt or committ suicide are suffering from a mental illness, such as depression, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia.

20-50% of suicides are related to substance abuse-- alcohol, marijuana,et al.

Teen girls are more likely to attempt suicide, but teen boys are more likely to be successful in committing suicide.

According to the CDC, in 2009 13.8% of high school students stated they seriously considered committing suicide within the last 12 months.

Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death among Americans between the ages of 15-24.

Suicide is preventable through education and public awareness.

So, quit bitching and start learning how to save our children by becoming aware of the risk factors associated with suicide, signs and symptoms of depression and elevated suicide risk and how to get help.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WTF ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:35PM

Nice stats. I guess the WTW HS counselors, teachers, administrators, etc. don’t realize the signs. All were involved in this incident. All sat around a table when this kid was judged.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: look in the mirror ()
Date: January 25, 2011 01:05PM

Get a grip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead of griping about school policies and
> personnel

If a kid kills him/herself after bullying, or some Facebook humiliation, or after something like the Rutgers situation, we are quick to lay blame with the bully, even prosecute them.

Yet when the heartless policies and actions of educators seem to be at least potentially involved, we get a lot of discussion of mental illness and depression.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 25, 2011 01:16PM

"Just doing his job, you say?" Actually, a careful reading of the SR&R indicates that principals have far greater discretion then they would have us believe -- e.g., directives are phrased with "may", not "will". A Panglossian universe, the best of all possible worlds. A principal can hide behind the doctrine of "zero tolerance" when mistakes are made, or the phrase "has the discretion" when a greater purpose, such as protecting a star athletic, is desired.

This entire process reeks of hypocrisy. You "kids" don't seem to understand that this is in no way to benefit you. It is to ensure that the SB and system have no liability when mistakes are made.

It is in not way "disrespectful" of the student to call attention to these matters in light of his suicide, any more than in dishonors the memories of children like Megan Kanka or Adam Walsh to raise their tragedies and suffering into a social good by naming laws after them.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Friend ()
Date: January 25, 2011 04:32PM

for all of you who said that he was expelled from Woodson for having pot, you are wrong. he admitted to a legal substance which is why their was no police involvement. because it was basically a type of synthetic marijuana they punished him for having marijuana when in fact his drug tests were all clean. he was one of my best friends and i saw him 4 days before it happened at a sleepover. He seemed as happy as ever because he was with friends. when they expelled him they took him away from all of his friends. His scheduled suspension of 2 weeks lasted a month and a half because fcps was being lazy and took too long to schedule his expulsion hearing. that time away from friends and people he knew put him in a depression. RIP Nick, i will see you in the next life

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Shame on the SB! ()
Date: January 25, 2011 04:34PM

How can you sleep at night with everything you have done. Now you have a childs suicide to explain away. RIP Nick.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DefendingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 25, 2011 05:26PM

"even when i was going to hs, they had the SR&R yet I was always amazed at the *AP and GT kids* who got to have the rules bent and the *normal kids* who were told you should have known what this vague regulation meant before accepting the SR&R contract (that technically nobody ever read because the teachers when i went to school only wanted you to sign the paper and not to have time to read it by making the students sign right before leaving for the day.) It was even more tragic to imagine that for the labeled ED students, who at that point should be questioned if they understood what reality is let alone rules when the administrators would tell them that they don't believe they are smart enough for a normal classroom yet adequately equipped mentally to agree to the SR&R as though it was understandable by even someone mentally retarded"

LOL. You're "amazed at the AP and GT kids who got to have the rules bent"? Really? I've been in GT since the 3rd grade, and I took 1 AP course sophomore year and 4 AP courses as a junior, in addition to 4 this year. I've NEVER been excused from following the SR & R, and neither have my peers.

"they can claim what they want but the entire goal of the system in Fairfax county public schools is to promote the tiny percentage of curve busting GT and AP students by disenfranchising the students that could use a real education by further dividing the students into mainstream ap gt ED and LD. so that so called smart students like yourself can go to TJ while most of the true gifted geniuses of fairfax county are simply looking forward to taking their place in poverty working the fry vat at mcdonalds instead of on jet propulsion at nasa thanks to a school system that tends to ostracize any student who cannot improve the vital statistics that allow FCPS to continue to make money."

I'm going to guess that you weren't AP/GT. 'Cause when you look at that quote, you can tell you just have some grudges against AP/GT kids. Were you one of those kids who terrorized GT kids on the playgrounds in elementary school? You also implied that we're not smart, and that everyone else is actually smarter than us. Hmm. You sound like one of those kids in middle school that are like "We're smarter than the GT kids, they're retarded and stupid and have no social life!" Stop the hatin'. This isn't even about AP/GT/ED/LD. It's about Stuban's death, and ColonialsFTW and I were trying to make a point that one cannot simply blame Jeff Yost for Stuban's death, and also emphasized how completely irrational it was to say that Yost just hates boys (like many have said in previous posts).

Oh, and "I must however assume that that college you got accepted into probably has "Community" preceding college in its name."

I got into UPenn and Yale. Guess this isn't the first incorrect assumption you've made on this thread, right?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: get over yourself ()
Date: January 25, 2011 06:14PM

Am I the only one sick and tired of this pompous TJ brat? Go do your homework, genuis. Leave this discussion to the adults.

We don't care how smart you THINK YOU ARE.

You continue to defend a principal at a school YOU DON'T EVEN ATTEND.

Yea, I bet you know him real well.

FCPS played a role in this kid's death....PERIOD.

You don't keep a kid out of school for TWO MONTHS for an insignificant act knowing he is home all day watching his mom die.

It is sick. It is hateful. It is inhumane.

No reasonable person can defend this perverted excuse for "keeping students safe".

If this kid was so bad, so dangerous, then why send him to another FCPS???!!!

Their pathetic argument and defense of their barbaric acts would be laughable were it not for the death of this young man.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Tomas de Torquemada ()
Date: January 25, 2011 06:41PM

Dear Get Over Yourself,
The TJ student is quite correct and you do the entire Fairfax County Community a most serious and grave disservice by resisting the duly constituted authority. Opposition to the established order, and its policies and practices, must always be met with crushing, ruthless, intimidating, terrorizing, and ultimately superior force so that the morals of civil society will be preserved and protected. Go now my child, and in the name of our Lord, sin no more.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: togetoveryourself ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:33PM

i dont go to tj, but i can clearly see that what the tj kids are saying have been some of the most important posts in this thread. they're awesome, and after reading this entire thread without a preconceived opinion about who was to blame, i can say that i am convinced that yost is not to blame. pointing fingers is childish, anyways. and stop treating the tj kids differently ("go do your homework, genius." "we don't care how smart you THINK YOU ARE."). if say, a woodson kid like me, had posted the same thing, people wouldn't be saying "oh ivy leagues don't matter" "nobody cares where you went to high school". stop bashing on them just because they go to tj. they wanted to receive an excellent education in the science and technology fields, so they decided to apply and attend tj. and if this student made it into upenn and yale (early admission/early decision, i'm guessing...? cuz a lot of tj kids do that i think), i think it's safe to say he or she is pretty damn intelligent.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: togetoveryourselff ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:38PM

ithinkyouarewrongaboutthetjkidstheyarethesmartestandgreatestandhavethehighestmoralstandardsevereverandimeanitanddontforgetthatyouprobablywnettosomesmallskewlanddontknowanything!!!!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: highschoolkiddo ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:49PM

i knew nick for a short period of time, but I found this page and this seems disrespectful. i understand that were all upset an heartbroken by our loss but why do we have to thrash about it here when we should be thinking of all the good times we've had with him? i had a class with him and it sure is hell hard to go to that class and sit there without him but were trying to celebrate and remember the happy nick we knew.
RestInPeace Nick. this isn't a goodbye, it's a see ya later <3 thank you for coming into my life and making me realize to not take anything for granted.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 25, 2011 10:26PM

Tell me, Friar Tomas, did you find the Judas Cradle or the Pear of Anguish a more effective method of persuading the obstinate students, er, heretics?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: stop ()
Date: January 25, 2011 11:18PM

how do you think Nick's family and friends would feel if they saw this forum arguing about the cause of Nick's suicide. This should be for his memories and mourning. Please stop

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Tomas de Torquemada ()
Date: January 25, 2011 11:27PM

My Dear Professor,
The particular method of cleansing the soul and purifying the heart matters but very little. My order was waging a war with the Lucifer himself and we were governed by the felt necessities of the time. Indeed, it is refreshing that our approach has endured, and deeply satisfying to see our tactics adopted to the present times in the Holy War Against Teenagers in the FCPS Hearing Office.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Knock it off ()
Date: January 26, 2011 12:21PM

You all should be ashamed of yourselfs.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: sad ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:35AM

Stop placing blame on administrators or others. Pray for Nick and his family.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: how do we honor the dead ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:44AM

Nick's death is tragic for the entire community. Of course everyone sympathizes for the family.

Part of honoring his life is ensuring that another student doesn't take their life. Nick would want that.

Nick had a mother who was dying before his eyes. Why wouldn't FCPS take that trauma into consideration? How could they put him in the disciplinary process-alienated him from his friends and support knowing darn well that it would contribute to his already weakened mental state?

Is FCPS 100% at fault for his suicide? No.

Did their callous actions contribute to him taking his life? Absoulutely.

Sure we can pray for him but we must take action and protect the living.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 27, 2011 03:46PM

What I am ashamed of is a school system that trumpets it's world class standing but produces individuals who write "yourselfs". It's "yourselves", if you are intending the plural form; "yourself" in the singular. This is more than simply my playing the obnoxious "grammar police". This is about pointing out that our educational systems are failing to prepare students (you?) for the 21st century, where reading, writing, and computational skills will need to be at a college level -- specifically, sophomore. As the last century ended, the benchmark was 8th grade.

Internationally, American students are in the middle of the pack and falling behind. It's been estimated that were graduating American seniors on par with their Finnish counterparts, our economy would be 9% bigger, since the newly minted "knowledge workers" would be capable of more complex (and more lucrative) tasks. In the provincial schools of our oh-so-polite neighbors to the north, Canadian kids are on average 1 full grade ahead of American students in the basic competencies. Our situation is due to poor leadership at every level.

You lose your imagined moral high ground when you show such disregard for your audience with improper grammar. Anyone's death is a sad event. A child's is a tragedy. One that seemingly occurs at least in some measure because of a mechanistic act of "reckless disregard" is a travesty of justice calling out for action. The poor little girl in New Jersey murdered by the sex offender living across the street was horrific and no doubt brought bottomless pain to her family. But her death also focused attention on the need for communities to be informed about the predators in their midst. It probably brought her family no comfort, but Megan Kanka "gave" her name to "Megan's Law", and how many children have since been protected?

If this young man's death shines Brandeis' "disinfecting sunlight" onto an indefensible disciplinary system, and change is brought about, then a very good thing has been done. How can that be something to "knock off"?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Friend ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:01PM

Yost had the balls to send this out yesterday....like we should all feel sorry for HIM. What a mean, self centered, asshole!


Well…

It looks like most staff and all students could get some more time “off†tomorrow.
At this point, the schedule for odd and even days remains in place and AS OF RIGHT NOW, grades for students are to be compled by Friday. I am almost certain Monday and Tuesday will remain "student holidays." If I hear anything from FCPS tomorrow about an extension of the semester, I will let you know via another KIT.

PS. Some/many folks have asked and I just wanted you to know that I am doing fine.

So…get the milk and bread and enjoy your time with the kids we share.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TruthBeTold ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:43PM

For those of you who are in or have kids in the discipline process now, www.FairfaxZeroToleranceReform.org is interested in hearing from you. I hear it is organizing and moving forward with reform and have dozens of people already engaged. But it would help to have the support and current experiences of someone "caught" in the system right now. Please contact directors@fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org with your own contact info. I am told information will be kept confidential unless otherwise approved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 07:19PM by TruthBeTold.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Concerned Parent Too ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:46PM

If you are not happy with FCPS's behavior, write the board. I have written to complain about WTW's reputation regarding expulsions. Be heard. Go to their website. All the e mails are there.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: upcoming expulsion hearing ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:58PM

It is indeed time to shine the light on these inhumane hearings.

Anyone facing a disciplinary hearing shoule either (1) bring a videocamera and record the hearing (you have a right to an official record of your hearing) or (2) bring a reporter in with you.

Let's see if the likes of Dana Scanlan are as nasty when a reporter is in the room.

Time to out the ugly.

RIP Nick. We will neither forget nor fail you.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Go Get Them! ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:23PM

Start writing your school and local officials. Let them know you vote and kids are being ruined!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Pot is bad ()
Date: January 28, 2011 09:08AM

The argument for why the students are treated unfairly is that Pot is not a problem like if the kids were doing heroin or something. But what if I don't want my kid around potheads? Or what if despite your assurances to the contrary, I believe, based on how stupid pothead kids are, that pot is a big deal. I think the outrage only comes if you think that pot is really something like graffiti or skipping class, and therefore school transfer is harsh. But if you think Pot is a big deal, and transferring the druggies busts up the drug cliques seems pretty defensible.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: idontknow ()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:27AM

One can see both sides of the agrument. Most parents believe that their child is "not really bad, just made a stupid mistake". I'm sure I would believe my child's side of the story too if she got in trouble. But, the reality is that some, if not most, of those kids didn't just make one stupid mistake. Some of those kids are smoking pot on a regular basis, are dealing drugs, etc. I feel terrible for the families that are affected by this policy, but in truth how many kids are really being caught "the first time they tried it"?

The other issue is that parents are not coming forward with their stories. If these are just bad judgement calls by their kids why aren't they telling their stories. Even the parents of Nick, quoted in the paper, that they don't want to get into why he got in trouble. Why not? If parents truly believe their kid's side of the story they would let the world know the truth. The only parents that told the unvarnished truth were Josh's parents two years ago. And even they admitted that it was the second time their son was caught with pot on school grounds.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: parents are afraid ()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:17AM

The reason FCPS is able to get away with their bullying behavior is becasue most parents are afraid to stand up to the.

I hear it all the time....."I don't want them taking it out on my kid". Its not just parents either, most employees are afraid for their jobs if they dare criticize something that FCPS is doing wrong.

I can cite dozens of examples. In many cases, FCPS puts a gag order in place for employees.

Did anyone notice how we didn't hear one peep from the staff at Clifton? Why wouldn't staff want their school "saved"? Of course they do. FCS told them to not speak out. They were silenced.

It is a pathetic school district where employees and parents are intimidated into silence.

Someone needs to be brave here.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:18AM

While it would help the discussion to know just what offense is involved, this is an overwhelming time for the parents - the wound is still very fresh. Also, given Nick's Mom's health, just getting from moment to moment with this has got to practically impossible. It does seem clear, however, that FCPS really blew it by turning a 10 day suspension into a 2 month exile.

The Connection article is more informative about the situation, even tho it does not state the nature of the offense either.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=347811&paper=88&cat=104

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: parentwtw ()
Date: January 28, 2011 12:30PM

Someone needs to take a close look at WTW HS practices more closely. I hear that their expulsion rate is the highest in teh county. Anyone else know about this?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: some data ()
Date: January 28, 2011 01:43PM

Actual expulsions are rare. Those are reserved for the severe cases and the expulsion is often required by law. These required expulsions come from The Gun Free Schools Act or whatever-legislation that arose as a result of Columbine.

In FCPS there were only 5 expulsions in 2209-10 as reported to DOE. They are as follows:

Bryant 2
Lee 1
South Lakes 1
West Pot 1

The catagory more commonly used is modified expulsion to suspension. This is the gray area where FCPS acts like The Gestapo. They know the offense aren't serious enough for expulsion, as they would never withstand a court challenge, so they basically throw it on as a threat just to keep the parents at bay.

In FCPS there were 232 modified expulsions. Too many to list by school, but here are a few for comparison:

Woodson 4
Lee 4
Westfield 4
Lake Braddock 4
West Springfield 3
McLean 12
Marshall 8
Langley 3
West Pot 13
Stuart 10
South Lakes 9
Robinson 17
Mt Vernon 7
Oakton 10

The $64,000 question is are the punishments at School A the same as School B?

Answer: No.

Principals get lots of discretion. So, if the PTA President's kid screws up he gets a 3 day suspension, while the kid nobody likes who is obnoxious gets the book thrown at them.

It varies greatly from school to school which is in violation of the law. Schools can't act in an arbitrary and capricious manner. In FCPS they do it all the time.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: January 28, 2011 02:10PM

Useful data...thank you. Where did you find it?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: very arbitrary ()
Date: January 28, 2011 03:30PM

Woodson had 4 modified expulsions in 09/10, but here are the stats on school safety from that year:

Offense Category
Weapons Offenses 1
Offenses Against Student 4
Offenses Against Staff 4
Other Offenses Against Persons 31
Alcohol, Tobacco, and OtherDrug Offenses 22
Property Offenses 5
Disorderly or Disruptive Behavior Offenses 47
Technology Offenses 0
All Other Offenses 2

https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/

So 116 reportable offenses, but only 4 modified expulsions? I'm not in favor of ZT at all, and these numbers just seem to confirm that there is a real abuse of discretion in the FCPS displinary system. There were 22 drug offenses - I thought that was an immediate transfer. So some large percentage of kids caught with drugs are obviously NOT expelled? Do they just ramdomly pick every couple months someone to expell to make sure the kids have an 'example'?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: justice department anyone? ()
Date: January 28, 2011 04:16PM

If you compare FRM percentages with suspensions there is a direct link:

Langley/1.3% FRM/2.5% suspensions
McLean/8.7% FRM/2.4% suspensions

Mt Vernon/41% FRM/37.6% suspensions
Annandale/46% FRM/13.7% suspensions

NO SCHOOL should have a suspension rate of 37%. That is absurd.

Mt Vernon has a Black principal so she gets a free pass. They should FIRE her. She has no control of her school, the scores SUCK and she is wasting taxpayer money by sending her students home for 10-30 day suspensions.

I'd like to know where all these Mt Vernon kids are reassigned to? WestPot?
That is a lot of kids to place and pay for transportation to another school.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: question? ()
Date: January 28, 2011 05:33PM

I am confused by the long-term suspension figure on The VA DOE website.

Long term is defined as more than 10 days, correct?

So why does FCPS only report 203 ;ong term suspensions?

No way is that correct.

FCPS recommends nearly 1000 kids for expulsion every year. How does that translate to 203?

Looks like we have a reporting problem.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 28, 2011 08:46PM

Pot is Bad,

Any argument that is grounded in the stipulation that "I don't want my kids around..." is too slippery a slope to explore. Suffice it to say that this or any school system is not here to accommodate every parent's individual wants, wishes, and whims.

The argument that school transfers are effective and desirable because they will "bust up the drug cliques" doesn't hold water either. It assumes a static condition, i.e., a group which is unreplicated and whose membership is fixed. Transferring one offender to another school will do what, make the remaining clique members reform? Hardly. If anything it would cause creation of a new "drug clique" in a new school, along with the continuance of the original one. Recruitment would actually increase, which is presumable why you don't want these kind of people around your kid in the first place. We might refer to this as the "Reefer Madness Effect".

Seriously though, while I've not advocating that school kids be allowed to use controlled substances, and I am not a user myself, I fail to understand this puritanical fixation with keeping marijuana illegal. I've stayed in the Netherlands, where it's personal use is ignored (contrary to popular belief, the Dutch have not actually made marijuana legal), and it is far from a degenerate society. People go to work and school, parents look after their kids, kids play sports, just like everywhere else. Its a modern, family oriented country where marijuana usage is imperceptible except in cafes in the big cities. We waste a ton of resources that could be devoted to education and other needs enforcing a law created for political and economic reasons, not medical ones.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:05PM

idontknow,

The point is not how many times a kid "breaks the law", or if the parents themselves believe their child enough to "tell their story"; it's whether the "punishment" fits the "crime". Education is about instruction, not law enforcement, so it's hard to see how punishments such as suspension align with the mission statement, so to speak.

Frankly, I see little justification for the school system to take any action at all on matters obtaining from actual laws. Using marijuana and other controlled substances is a matter for the police and the courts, which are operated by people trained and experienced in the law. Schools are about teaching, and are staffed by people trained and experienced in the various areas of knowledge needed to function in a complex, modern society. If a student breaks a law, the police should be called. The school has no rationale for further intervention. Right now, what we have is a situation strikingly close to double jeopardy.

As to more quotidian infractions, such as insubordination, the principal should be free to handle matters in a fair and judicious manner, which includes penalties for repeatedly bad behavior. If my kid breaks a family rule, I explain to him why he is not allowed to do that. If he breaks it again, I take away his XBox privileges for two weeks. If he does it again, I ground him for three. "Punishment" is leveled to cause discomfort, and enforce the societal rule that bad actions have bad consequences. Ultimately, he is learning to value and follow rules, an important skill in our law-based society, without experiencing true pain and lasting harm. I certainly don't appropriately convey that message when I throw him out of the house and say "come back in 10 days".

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: adversity ()
Date: February 01, 2011 12:18AM

my thoughts and prayers go out to the stubans. I hope everyone can take a step back and look at the big picture. we are talking about KIDS. look at cases individually and take the neccessary steps to change what needs to be changed inregards to the mistakes the kids make and how they are punished. blame does not help, change does help. we cannot change what has happened, but we can move forward, i believe thats what nick would want. Please stop with the questions about what happened to nick or how it happend or why. does anyone realize the stubans can read this?? have some respect. its sad it takes all of us to get involved to make change, but if that what it takes I will do it. I have 3 girls in ffx county school system, and this scares me to no end. every situation is different, but I could be in the same shoes of the stubans. I am involved with my kids and then out of the blue this happens. Its truly unbelievable. I hope everyone learns to communicate and tell your kids you love them and be involved, yet adversity can strike anyone in any fashion and lets hope and pray we can prevent anymore kids being pushed to do the unthinkable. i dont believe the school system is totally to blame, they have rules to follow, but it would be nice for one of them to stand up for what is right and voice an opinion in what needs to be changed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Get rid of Yost ()
Date: February 01, 2011 09:23AM

really, why is Yost still there. Give him a rubber room job.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: not my kids ()
Date: February 01, 2011 11:16PM

To justice department anyone?

There is a correlation between FRM, a measure of poverty, and suspensions. There is also a correlation between percentage of minorities and suspensions. These correlations have been found in studies of other school systems (university of Kentucky specifically). It does not mean causation. Nor is it a statement on FCPS. It is a statement on our society as a whole.

I am fortunate enough to be able to send my kids to private school for now, although they are only in elementary school. They are sheltered from the abuses of "the system" and I plan to keep it that way for as long as possible.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Joey D ()
Date: February 02, 2011 12:26PM

I agree. Fire Yost.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: URnotrealistic ()
Date: February 03, 2011 02:56PM

If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime. FCPS has evolved into what it is over many years. Blame the lawyers, parents, students, teachers, administrators, and citizens of Ffx Co. for whatever you want. The school system serves its purpose, better than most. Did anyone consider that Nick succeeded on his 2nd attempt; he was in Dominion Hospital over the holidays for the 1st attempt. Oooppps, now we can blame the parents and the Ffx Co. mental health system as well.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: February 03, 2011 03:12PM

URnotrealistic, it must have been a real thrill for you to disclose that info. Happy now?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 03, 2011 07:26PM

There are many other options before expulsion. In school, after school or weekend detention, suspension, the list goes on.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Ry ()
Date: February 03, 2011 09:52PM

It was perfectly predictable that some grotesque FCPS hearing officer would spew the hateful and false claim the the Stuban boy had tried suicide previously. Classic propaganda tactic and very true to FCPS form. They truly are a hateful lot.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fairfax student ()
Date: February 07, 2011 07:00PM

I can not believe it's been that ... I met him on his first day at FHS seemed super nice and I'm sorry that it happened but I hope to be happy where this .... and find the peace he needed ..

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Kids will be kids ()
Date: February 07, 2011 07:20PM

I feel bad for kids today. One minor offense and your out. No common sense just a zero tolerance policy put into place by the FCSS. I can think of many other ways we can handle teenagers. They are NOT adults. We need to rethink what we are doing to our youth.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: February 07, 2011 08:16PM

Zero tolerance makes no sense. It takes any discretion out of the hands of the people directly working with our youth. If we can't trust them to handle these situations based on the details of the case, then we can't trust them to educate our youth, period. QED

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Nick's friend ()
Date: February 08, 2011 02:05PM

I don't understand why most of these posts on this site are screaming hateful words at each other, when this whole site is supposed to post our sorrows and respect for Nick's family and friends. Please respect him, and everyone who was close to him. Shouting insults and words of DISRESPECT for Mr. Yost and the school board isn't for this site. Take it somewhere else...

Nick was such a gentle giant, he'd always go out of his way to give people hugs in school. I remember we were in the library and Nick would come up to me and my friends and hug every single one of us. Even my friends who didn't know him that well. That's how I will remember him for the rest of my life. A caring person. Rest in peace Nick :( until then

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: monkeys can do it ()
Date: February 08, 2011 10:50PM


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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Time to Take out the Trash ()
Date: February 08, 2011 10:57PM

parents are afraid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason FCPS is able to get away with their
> bullying behavior is becasue most parents are
> afraid to stand up to the.
>
> I hear it all the time....."I don't want them
> taking it out on my kid". Its not just parents
> either, most employees are afraid for their jobs
> if they dare criticize something that FCPS is
> doing wrong.
>
> I can cite dozens of examples. In many cases,
> FCPS puts a gag order in place for employees.
>
> Did anyone notice how we didn't hear one peep from
> the staff at Clifton? Why wouldn't staff want
> their school "saved"? Of course they do. FCS
> told them to not speak out. They were silenced.
>
> It is a pathetic school district where employees
> and parents are intimidated into silence.
>
> Someone needs to be brave here.


Agreed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 09, 2011 12:39AM

While the School Board callously voted down Tina Hone's budget amendments to examine the FCPS discipline system, the BOS unanimously adopted the attached board matter to address the problems that are obvious to the BOS which the SB despeerately wants to ignore.
Attachments:
ZeroToleranceBoardMatter.pdf

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Ralph ()
Date: February 09, 2011 01:08AM

What a stinging rebuke to the school board, and more specifically, to that Gestapo which masquerades as the "Hearings Office". No doubt , however, that the SB will dig in, get ugly, and fiercely resist doing the decent thing.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: just wait ()
Date: February 10, 2011 08:07AM

If you think the SB has been disfunctional to this point, just wait til you see how they behave now that the BOS is sticking their nose into school business. There's no word strong enough to describe what the SB reaction to that will be.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: get a grip ()
Date: February 10, 2011 11:58AM

Kids will be kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel bad for kids today. One minor offense and
> your out. No common sense just a zero tolerance
> policy put into place by the FCSS. I can think of
> many other ways we can handle teenagers. They are
> NOT adults. We need to rethink what we are doing
> to our youth.


What do you mean out? They get transferred to another school. The only adults , if there are any on here posting, that rant and rave about this are those whose kids run their home.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Get a grip ()
Date: February 10, 2011 01:53PM

Look, the only adults here who bitch and whine about the complaints against the school system's discipline policies are the gutless, spineless, ignorant, boot-licking FCPS groupies whose kids run their homes.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2011 07:59AM

get a grip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you mean out? They get transferred to another school. The only adults , if there are any on here posting, that rant and rave about this are those whose kids run their home.<


DON'T FEED THE TROLLS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 08:00AM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2011 08:01AM

Get a grip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look, the only adults here who bitch and whine about the complaints against the school system's discipline policies are the gutless, spineless, ignorant, boot-licking FCPS groupies whose kids run their homes.<


DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas Moore ()
Date: February 11, 2011 08:27AM

Do not feed the Thomas More trolls!!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: dd ()
Date: February 11, 2011 09:41AM

Mr. Yost was an adult in Nick's life who knew Nick was struggling.
Mr. Yost's job was to act like an adult.

Mr. Yost did not "just do his job". He failed in his basic role as a human being and his role as an adult in a child's life.

He used the system to dumb down his responsibility.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: cowards ()
Date: February 11, 2011 09:56AM

I agree completely about Yost taking some responsibility.

These principals always say, the SR&R requires us to recommend expulsion. I believe the language is "may" which means discretion can be used.

Maybe not for a drug offense-even though Nick apparently did not possess an illegal drug-somehow lost on FCPS.

The principals do make recommendations for expulsion for trivial offenses-vandalism and such.

No kid should miss 2-6 weeks of school for minor offenses and the taxpayers should not be asked to foot the $2 million bill for these unnecessary hearings and transportation costs to other schools.

You guys wonder why your school doesn't have all day K or FLES-$2 million goes a long way for some programs.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: shall ()
Date: February 11, 2011 11:04AM

Read the SR&R booklet. There are several behaviors (e.g., being a gun to school and and selling drugs on school property) for which the principal SHALL (not "may) recommend expulsion.

The Board of Sups is doing the right thing. Serious misbehavior by a child that mandates transfer to another school should also get the attention of the county's social services.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: lost honor ()
Date: February 11, 2011 11:13AM

We used to have in this country a thing called honor. When someone failed miserably, their sense of honor and society's demand for honorable behaviour meant they would resign their position of trust. Not anymore.

Here in FCPS, we have this principal and everything that went on with this case, and another that is involved in a major real estate fraud.

Do they have no sense of shame or responsibility? Is there nothing they can do short of a felony conviction that will cost them their job?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Mantua Mom ()
Date: February 11, 2011 01:38PM

The video tribute played at Nick's memorial service is posted on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ja1J6B70PE

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2011 09:59PM

cowards Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The principals do make recommendations for expulsion for trivial offenses-vandalism and such.<

Principals are told what to recommend by the now departed Grattan and Scanlan the sadist of the Appeals Office.

That's why 100% of the recommendations are upheld on appeal; the appeals office is reviewing their own recommendation. It's a scam.

Dale needs to go and take Scanlan with him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 10:00PM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: get a grip supporter ()
Date: February 12, 2011 03:50PM

get a grip is not a troll, he/she's entitled to his opinion as well as anyone else. its not mr. yost's fault, and its most likely that nick's death was NOT related to his expulsion. everyone needs to stop playing the blame game and relax.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: another Mantua mom ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:43AM

To Nick's parents Steve and Sandy,
I send my Congratulations for the courage to go public with the story of your family's journey (Front page, Sunday Washington Post) and to include personal photographs for the story. It must have been really difficult to do all that, but know that we admire you for it. How I wish that Nick was still with us all! It is hard to imagine any mother reading to the end of that story without dissolving into tears like I did.
With much love,
another Mantua mom.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:46AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/19/AR2011021904528.html?hpid=topnews

How many more FCPS kids have to die before we get rid of this counterproductive disciplinary system and the people who advocate for it?

When will the deniers get it?

How long will it take for anyone from FCPS to offer their condolences to the Stubin family?

The Anderson family is still waiting 22 months later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2011 09:04AM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 09:28AM

This article makes the disciplinary action seem appropriate.

Taking experimental drugs that you don't know what the side effects are is not the behavior of a normal, "good" kid.

Its some pretty f'ed up stuff. And the kid went home and researched it, so its seems like a pretty deliberate action.

Buying it at school means the school has turned into a distribution center for drugs. Other parents have the right to send their kids to a school which is not a distribution center for drugs.

And people that say that just because its not "technically" illegal that its not worse are part of the problem.

If you dont think these things--marijauna. . .--are that big of a deal, that's your option, its a free country. But dont force my kids to be exposed to influences and behaviors which i consider a very big deal, especially for the sake of someone's participation in school sports.

Better the sports be cancelled--make the school about education only if you are going to force everyone to go

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:19AM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Could you be any more heartless and cruel?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:29AM

While tragic, I think that the best you can say is the outcome as a result of his poor decision making was a contributing factor in Nick's suicide and not a causal one. That does not excuse the process that FCPS uses, but let's be honest here - no one with such a bright future and the type of support system Nick had access to should go from despair to suicide in 60 days. As difficult as the transition might have been, he was 16 and a bright kid with a lot of potential and there was an opportunity to learn from the mistake, grow as a person and overcome this short-term adversity. Frankly, I would have thought that his mother's perseverace through her condition, ALS, would be an inspiration and give him a reason to fight on.

With that said, if parents are so concerned and convined that there is blood on FCPS'hands then why haven't we seen a wrongful death suit filed against them? Surely there must be lawyers around here who would take on this case if it was so clearly cut and dried. Given that the discipline process, and with it the SR&R, affects every student, where is the grassroots movement similar to FLAGS, SLEEP and FAIRGRADE with petitions, websites, and parents and with children attending SB meetings in brightly-colored T-shirts with catchy slogans?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:58AM

Thomas More,
I think you are looking at this only from the perspective of the punishment to the child. In which case i can see why this is upsetting. Even more so if you think the punishment basically led to the suicide. It probably seems like a death sentence.

But i'm not looking at it that way.

i'm looking at it from the perspective of what else can you do to deal with the problem?

Again, other parents have a right that their kids not be exposed to this kind of stuff.

Clearly some people think some of this behavior is not that bad, and so aren't going to do anything about their kids engaging in it.

But should my kids suffer and be endangered because of that? I mean at some point on this pathway down "experimentation" someone can reach the point where they do something that should be considered criminal. Maybe not this kid, but certainly some kids meet that definition.

So the compromise is, well if the school is involved, then your out, to establish a big red line between where one kids' experimentation and growing maturity and another kids' right not to be endangered divide off.

If there isn't "zero tolerance" for at least some things, then every parent, perhaps legitimately so, will plead for this case requiring special treatment.

But that just wont work for lots of things.

For example, I can bet there are many "good" kids out there who deal a little drugs on the side. They are probably not hard core criminals, and many probably have many other good qualities.

But we just cant have them in school dealing for the many dangers involved. And so because all parents will plead for their kid for a second chance, in order to avoid the other dangers, we have big signs around schools saying "Drug Free Zone"

How far down does that line go? Sure that's a point of debate. Maybe fighting in school is on the other side of that line. Maybe bullying is something different. But what's being argued about, then, is just where the line goes, not that there shouldn't be a line.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:02AM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

It's all about you

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:06AM

No, its about the hundreds of thousands of other kids in the system, who deserve protection.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:13AM

RiddleMeThis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While tragic, I think that the best you can say is the outcome as a result of his poor decision making was a contributing factor in Nick's suicide and not a causal one.<

That is all anyone has said but which is what Dale and his enablers on the SB deny.

> That does not excuse the process that FCPS uses, but let's be honest here - no one with such a bright future and the type of support system Nick had access to should go from despair to suicide in 60 days.<

Actually, research tells us it can happen in less than 5 days among teenagers, especially boys.

> As difficult as the transition might have been, he was 16 and a bright kid with a lot of potential and there was an opportunity to learn from the mistake, grow as a person and overcome this short-term adversity. Frankly, I would have thought that his mother's perseverace through her condition, ALS, would be an inspiration and give him a reason to fight on.<

It appears her example was a burden that Nick felt he wasn't living up to. Josh Anderson wrote about being a disappointment to his parents.

> With that said, if parents are so concerned and convined that there is blood on FCPS'hands then why haven't we seen a wrongful death suit filed against them? Surely there must be lawyers around here who would take on this case if it was so clearly cut and dried.<

It's called sovereign immunity.

> Given that the discipline process, and with it the SR&R, affects every student, where is the grassroots movement similar to FLAGS, SLEEP and FAIRGRADE with petitions, websites, and parents and with children attending SB meetings in brightly-colored T-shirts with catchy slogans?<

There is a grass roots organization its called Zero Tolerance Reform: ZTR.org.

You want to help or just make snarky comments on a blog?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: need compassion ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:15AM

Frankly, I don't think the family will be consoled by a "wrongful death lawsuit". I think these are incredible people who have already been dragged through things which most of us cannot even imagine.

To those of you who think that you know what is normal and abnormal, good or bad, I just want to say that you are not God.

Nick was, by all accounts, a fine young man who needed help and needed support. Yes, we have drugs and drug problems in our schools.

Why did Nick have to leave his school? Doubtless, it was because of a set of strict rules that do not allow evidence and common sense to be part of the process. Then, what is the "hearing" for? It's to make it look like there is a fair process. Let's all learn something here and put common sense back into our dealings with students. I think that is what the Stuban family wants. I have nothing but respect for the Stuban family. I am so sorry for your loss and I cannot imagine it. I have an only son who is a sophomore in high school right now. His world revolves around his friends. I cannot even begin to imagine your pain.

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