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Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: BraddockDistrict ()
Date: January 20, 2011 02:27PM

Anyone know the student's name?

From: WOODSON HS [mailto:WoodsonHS.KeepInTouch@fcps.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:03 PM
Subject: Sad News


(Sent by Jeff Yost, Principal)

Moments ago I sent the following message to the Woodson High School Staff...

"To: Woodson HS All (I plan to forward the same message via a KIT shortly to our families)

I am not sure how many of you have heard, but a student who used to attend Woodson High School until earlier this school year, has died. The young man was a 10th grader at Woodson earlier this year and was currently attending Fairfax High School. All of this student’s teachers have been spoken to about the situation and I need all of your eyes and ears for the following.

Should you see students/staff in distress and/or in need of consoling, please feel free to be the concerned caring adults I know all of you are and contact Student Services as necessary. More information may follow tomorrow.

The impact of these types of situations sometimes is not immediate, so as we come to school tomorrow and beyond, please be alert to this need for the Woodson community.

Should you have any questions, please call at 703-503-4606."

edit by Cary: Added "Nick Stuban" to the subject line for list-page clarity



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 04:30PM by Cary.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS Student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 04:14PM

Haven't heard anything about a sophomore passing. We (unfortunately) recently had a graduate from last year pass but thankfully that's been all.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: centreville1 ()
Date: January 20, 2011 04:46PM

Is this a typo? Are you sure you didn't mean "Westfield" High School?

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS Student 2 ()
Date: January 20, 2011 04:48PM

Are you kidding me? "That's been all" We had too many deaths this and last year. I can't remember, but it was well over 5 or 6 if I recall.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS Student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 04:59PM

"thats been all" meaning recently. I completely agree- it's been WAY too many and I'm still shaken by what happened last year. Even regardless of which school they go to or age for that matter it's a tragedy to have something like that happen

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: da teach ()
Date: January 20, 2011 05:34PM

Not the same kid...Scott (from FHS) graduated last year...I have no idea who the woodson kid was...)

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: sad when kids die ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:03PM

according to an email from FHS principal - the students name was Nicholas Stuban

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:15PM

His name was nick stuban, he went to woodson but left in november to go to fairfax. I knew him well and sat next to him for months in a class we had together

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: BraddockStudent ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:29PM

Does anyone know how he passed? I went to middle school at Frost with him...

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: sad when kids die ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:29PM

very sad. car crash closed Fairfax Blvd and 123 yesterday afternoon. wonder if this was the cause of death??

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: A neighbor ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:32PM

Suicide

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: sad when kids die ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:34PM

so sorry for the family.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: graymoose1 ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:34PM

I know of a cannibal that "passed" a student

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: wtwstudent ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:42PM

No, he was a classmate, they did mean woodson

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS student/friend ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:48PM

how did he pass away)): i'm really confused if anybody knows please say so. I can't believe this

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS parent ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:51PM

So very sorry... "a neighbor" above stated it was suicide (7:32pm) I hope they are wrong....

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:53PM

He was a woodson student and then left to ffx. He committed suicide and was a sophmore. I have no idea how he committed suicide, but may he rest in peace.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: braddock student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:53PM

jenna pratts kicked him out on the middle of the highway over the weekend...

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: woodson student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:54PM

im pretty sure it was suicide :( although i dont know how or when.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS Soph ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:55PM

I think it's more like 8 or 9 students, there was on or two who didnt have the information released at all

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: fhs student/friend ()
Date: January 20, 2011 07:58PM

are you sure it was a suicide..?

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: woodson student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 08:07PM

They found him in the woodson behind frost. suicide today . Woodson expelled him from the school not very long ago...

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Friend. ()
Date: January 20, 2011 08:19PM

We were friends in middle school...he talked to me about his issues. Never thought it would come to this.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 08:23PM

Why was he expelled?

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Neighbor ()
Date: January 20, 2011 08:23PM

Rumors start so quickly -- He was NOT in the WOODS behind frost. Not sure where that came from. He was found in his own backyard.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Neighbor ()
Date: January 20, 2011 08:24PM

His mother has ALS, and he has raised a lot of money for the ALS foundation by the way, but nobody ever saw this coming.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: a longtime classmate/neighbor ()
Date: January 20, 2011 08:25PM

Just to clarify everything...he went to woodson and was kicked out in november and transfered to FFX. He later commited suicide. I have memories of having classes with him from 2nd grade to 10th grade and he was a great kid. Only a couple months ago, i remember working with him on labs in science and nobody ever saw it coming. Also, he was an only child and his mom is chronically ill, being a longtime sufferer of ALS. You can only imagine how hard it is on his dad losing his only child and having to care for his dying wife. RIP NICK STUBAN

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: unknown ()
Date: January 20, 2011 09:16PM

this is tragically sad..i didnt know him but have friends who did. RIP

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: sad when kids die ()
Date: January 20, 2011 09:24PM

agreed. let's hope that the nasty people who get apparent satisfaction in encouraging and promoting insulting and inappropriate comments under these circumstances will STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THIS POST!!!!

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Rest in peace! ()
Date: January 20, 2011 09:44PM

Nothing worse to lose a child. The grief will never end. I understand if you do not want to live. It is a choice. If you knew what it would do to your parents you would not do it. Suicide is not the easy way out. For some it is the only way out. Life sometimes is not worth the pain. If only others understood.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: A parent ()
Date: January 20, 2011 10:15PM

Suicide is NEVER the way out. There is help, there is hope. If you or anyone you may know is contemplating or having suicidal thoughts...PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact a counselor, a clergy, the suicide hotline. Life is precious and even though you may not think so, you are probably precious to many around you.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson Student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 10:33PM

i went to school with nick and just remeber him laughing and joking with me he was such a nice and wonderful person, ill miss you running up and down the hallways.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Robinson Student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 10:53PM

Yeah, I went to Frost with him too... that's really sad :( I remember he was bullied though... I hope that wasn't the cause...

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Fairfax Grad ()
Date: January 20, 2011 10:59PM

If This is caused by bullying i really wish all bullies would burn in hell
they r assholes who dont deserve to live even if they do realize what they did
IT'S TOO LATE IM SORRY THERE IS NO BRINGING HIM BACK!!
little punks like them r scum to the earth....

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 20, 2011 11:21PM

I was in Boy Scouts with him for a while. He was a great kid. I didn't think this was true until I came here.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson Alum ()
Date: January 20, 2011 11:23PM

I'm a Woodson graduate and am currently involved in a student organization on my college campus that aims to reduce the stigma surrounding mental illness on college campuses AND in high schools; essentially letting students know that it's OKAY if you feel depressed or anxious, one in four people will suffer from a mental illness at some point in their lives! and it's OKAY to go to someone to talk and share your feelings! The website has some great information on where and how students can find help if they are suffering or know a of friend who has expressed difficulties, or just need someone to talk to. High schools are encouraged to start chapters of their own to bring attention to mental health and how it should be just as focused on as our physical health as we turn into young adults. www.activeminds.org
I lost a student in a class I was a TA for a couple years ago, and that's how I got involved in Active Minds. I hope Nick's classmates and friends can keep a positive attitude throughout this tough time, grieve, and get the message out about how important it is to keep yourself healthy mentally.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: WTWsenior ()
Date: January 20, 2011 11:30PM

Nick was a great kid. We were in boy scouts together. Just a few months ago he helped organize a fundraiser for ALS. He was a friend to many, a teammate to others, and a son. He was very polite and friendly, and got along with everyone as far back as I can remember.

Please keep the entire Stuban family in your prayers during this time. All of Woodson is mourning his loss.

RIP Nick Stuban-gone but NEVER forgotten.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: wtw alumni 2010 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 12:01AM

braddock student Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jenna pratts kicked him out on the middle of the
> highway over the weekend...


For one: have some respect for Nick. Secondly, I'm not sure what kind of sick person you are, but Jenna Pratz is a wonderful person, you have no right to spread lies. I hope one day you see how wrong this is, one way or another. That's all.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 21, 2011 12:19AM

I barley knew him, but this is tragic. I remember him a little bit from football. He was a great guy. RIP Nick Stuban.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Rumors ()
Date: January 21, 2011 12:59AM

I hope braddock student up above isn't trying to start rumors about this Jenna Pratts.

RIP Nick S. Didn't know the kid, but suicide is just a weak way of telling life you quit. Never quit, never give up.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: steve k2 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 01:20AM

Rumors Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope braddock student up above isn't trying to
> start rumors about this Jenna Pratts.
>
> RIP Nick S. Didn't know the kid, but suicide is
> just a weak way of telling life you quit. Never
> quit, never give up.


Just remember, no matter how bad you think you have it, a lot of people have it far worse.

Fight until the end.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Gilbert ()
Date: January 21, 2011 07:23AM

I knew Nick Stuban briefly. He was a very polite young man, an athlete having played Football and Lacrosse at Woodson. It saddens me that he found himself in such a dark place as to take his life and I wish I could have helped him.
It also saddens me that people would make such inappropriate comments regarding the loss of such a young life.
The confusion regarding where he was found possibly comes from the fact that there was police activity in the area of Old Creek yesterday and there is information that he, or someone fitting his description, was seen there after school the day before and acting very strange. Could have been anyone.
I wish him peace and hope that his parents may find peace in a time of great sorrow.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: 496 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 09:37AM

Is Fairfax county within the mean for student deaths? Seems like every week some kid has off'd themself, died in a crash, OD'd or was hit by a car while on a bike path. This would make an interesting study.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: January 21, 2011 09:44AM

496 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is Fairfax county within the mean for student
> deaths? Seems like every week some kid has off'd
> themself, died in a crash, OD'd or was hit by a
> car while on a bike path. This would make an
> interesting study.



All causes of death for people aged 15-24 the number is 81.4 per 100,000. That number hovers between 79 and 81 or so for the last few years.

Rate of Teen Deaths by Accident, Homicide, and Suicide per 100,000 Population, 2001

The entire Commonwealth of VA has a death rate amongst 15-19 year olds of 46 per 100,000. Virginia is ranked 34th highest and we just beat Michigan. Yeah Va! The US weighted average is about 52 deaths per 100,000. Alaska leads the pack at 75 per 100,000.



Rank States Amount
# 1 Alaska: 75
# 2 Arkansas: 74
= 3 Alabama: 72
= 3 Idaho: 72
# 5 Louisiana: 71
= 6 Oklahoma: 69
= 6 Mississippi: 69
= 6 Missouri: 69
# 9 South Carolina: 68
# 10 Arizona: 66
= 11 Kansas: 65
= 11 Wyoming: 65
= 11 Tennessee: 65
= 14 Georgia: 62
= 14 North Carolina: 62
# 16 New Mexico: 59
# 17 Colorado: 58
# 18 Kentucky: 57
= 19 Maryland: 56
= 19 South Dakota: 56
= 19 Maine: 56
= 19 Indiana: 56
= 23 Texas: 54
= 23 West Virginia: 54
# 25 Delaware: 53
# 26 Illinois: 52
# 27 Florida: 51
# 28 Nevada: 50
= 29 North Dakota: 49
= 29 Pennsylvania: 49
# 31 Nebraska: 48
= 32 Wisconsin: 47
= 32 Iowa: 47
= 34 Virginia: 46
= 34 Michigan: 46
# 36 Utah: 44
= 37 Montana: 43
= 37 Washington: 43
# 39 Ohio: 42
# 40 Oregon: 41
= 41 New Hampshire: 40
= 41 Connecticut: 40
= 43 California: 39
= 43 Minnesota: 39
= 43 Hawaii: 39
# 46 Vermont: 38
# 47 New York: 35
# 48 Massachusetts: 32
# 49 Rhode Island: 31
# 50 New Jersey: 29



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 10:38AM by Radiophile.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: details please ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:08AM

Does anyone know why Nick was kicked out of Woodson-pot?

When are these hateful hearing officers going to learn that they are pushing these vulnerable kids over the edge when they pull them from thie support structure.

I read he was bullied, that his mom was gravely ill, and yet, they throw the book at them.

NICE JOB EILEEN GRAATAN AND DANA SCANLAN.

HOPE YOU GUYS ARE PROUD OF YOURSELVES FOR KILLING ANOTHER FCPS KID.

YOU ARE HATEFUL BULLIES. IT WILL ALL CATCH UP TO YOU SOME DAY.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Fairfax Parent ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:24AM

Heard he was kicked out because of a charge of Possession with Intent to Distribute. Someone would have to explain to me how moving him to another nearby FCPS was expected to remedy the situation.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson Mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:29AM

My deepest sympathy to all of Nick Stuban's family and friends.

I have recently read that Woodson football players are wearing their Jerseys and that the principal as well as some students are wearing black to honor Nick's memory. If Nick was mistreated by FCPS employees, as stated in the previous comment, it would honor to Nick's memory to correct the mistakes in the system.

A previous comment from Woodson Alum stated that there are organizations to help students with suicidal thoughts. Write to FCPS, and let them know these teenagers need somewhere to turn for support. If the expulsion process is also at fault, write to FCPS with your information.

Participating in a flame war is also a form of cyber-bullying. Students, please watch what you say here. End the cyber-insults. How would you feel if these hearing officers were so full of guilt over not realizng that Nick had suicidal thoughts? You would not want them to commit suicide, would you?


Let's improve the system together instead of cyber-insults. Do if for the Stuban family.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: idiots at gatehouse ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:32AM

Fairfax Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heard he was kicked out because of a charge of
> Possession with Intent to Distribute. Someone
> would have to explain to me how moving him to
> another nearby FCPS was expected to remedy the
> situation.


Exactly.

The disciplinary nazis will tell us how "dangerous" this kid is to the community-yet they send him to another school.

Is he dangerous or not?

READ THE YOUTH SURVEY.

30% of our high school kids admit to smoking pot!!!!

Are they all dangerous?

If so, then where do we send 13,000 students?

I'll wait for your well thought out response.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: How many more deaths? ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:41AM

One Strike, They’re Out
Some families call the school system’s polices on marijuana punitive and ineffective.

By Julia O'Donoghue
Friday, September 17, 2010


Under different circumstances, Josh Anderson would have been headed to college this fall, likely joining a college football team.

His parents, Tim and Sue Anderson, had been looking forward to this time in their lives. Josh was the youngest of their four children, leaving Tim and Sue Anderson as empty nesters.

Instead of planning trips to watch Josh play his first season of college football, the Andersons are left with sadness and despair.

One morning in March 2009, Sue Anderson went to rouse her son from bed and found him dead in their Vienna home. Josh, then a junior at South Lakes High School, died of suicide the day before he was to face expulsion from the Fairfax County school system at a disciplinary hearing.

EARLIER THAT MONTH, Josh and his friend smoked marijuana on a car ride back to school from lunch at Taco Bell. A South Lakes assistant principal smelled marijuana on the students when they arrived back on campus and Josh was immediately placed on home suspension.

This was Josh’s second violation. In 2008, he had been kicked out of Langley High School when a school official found a small amount of marijuana in his bag.

Given that this he was a repeat offender, a lawyer told Josh and his mother that it was unlikely Fairfax County Public Schools would allow him to return to South Lakes or another general education program.

His best hope was to be offered a program at one of the county’s alternative high schools. Otherwise, his parents would have to consider moving, sending him to a military academy or enrolling him in another type of private school, said Sue Anderson.

In a statement written immediately after the incident, Josh wrote:

“I’m honestly going to try my hardest to fix this, help my parents, they haven’t raised me to be like this in any way. I’m so scared for the future, this wasn’t worth any of it at all. I’ve only recently been thinking I could make college football and I’ve gotten so excited about it and now everything is ruined.â€

IN ADDITION TO being suspended, Tim and Sue Anderson prohibited Josh from using his computer, iPod, cell phone, car or video games.

They took Josh’s first marijuana offense seriously as a mental health matter. After the incident at Langley, he also enrolled in drug counseling and attended regular appointments with a therapist and psychiatrist.

The Andersons agreed with the school system on some levels. What Josh did was wrong. His actions should have had consequences.

But Josh’s parents also thought the severity of their son’s likely punishment – removal from attending Fairfax County Public Schools -- far outweighed the offense.

Josh may have used marijuana, but he was not accused of trying to sell or distribute it to other students. Yet the Andersons’ son was treated as if he was a dangerous criminal, they said.

The South Lakes athletic director had to request special permission from the school system for Josh to play an away game with the South Lakes football team on Langley’s field. Otherwise, Josh was barred from attending any event – including prom, a school play or graduation – held on Langley’s campus.

“The school system doesn’t distinguish between a bad kid and dumb kid when it comes to these types of cases. Josh was a dumb kid making a dumb mistake,†said Tim Anderson, who thought obligatory community service, perhaps cleaning the cafeteria at school for awhile, would have been a more appropriate punishment.

Several school administrators considered Josh an asset, not a threat, to the school community, said the Andersons.

For example, the South Lakes assistant principal who reported Josh for smelling like marijuana had also nominated the teenager to be named the “coolest junior†in the school the month. Among his staunchest advocates was the South Lakes guidance counselor, who had worked with Josh regularly.

“The guidance counselor and the football coach, even the guy who caught him, were totally devastated,†said Tim Anderson.

SCHOOL OFFICIALS can rarely comment on an individual student's record or a specific disciplinary matter. But Josh was among 154 students who faced expulsion from Fairfax County Public Schools for marijuana during the 2008-09 school year alone.

Possession of marijuana was, by far, the most common reason students faced expulsion. The second most frequent offense — an umbrella category called "prohibited conduct" that includes fighting, causing a disruption and defying staff — resulted in 84 recommendations for expulsion during 2008-09.

The vast majority of students recommended for expulsion are not kicked out of the school system entirely, though those charged with violations related to drugs almost always face stiff consequences.

Violators frequently are removed from their base school, subjected to random drug tests and required to attend counseling, said School Board members familiar with the process. A few parents believe that punishment, particularly for those students who are caught with marijuana for personal use and not intending to sell it, is too harsh and more consideration should be given to the student's overall conduct and community support.

CHARACTER REFERENCES, personal accomplishments and endorsements from the community appear to have little bearing on the outcome of disciplinary hearings, particularly in matters related to drugs, according to the Andersons and some other families who have encountered the process.

The cases of students facing serious consequences, like a long-term suspension or expulsion, are typically reviewed during a disciplinary hearing, when members of the school system’s central administration staff recommend a punishment for the student. The School Board also reviews and votes on all expulsions individually.

But some parents complain the recommendation for the student’s punishment is predetermined before his or her disciplinary hearing takes place. They said the hearing officers largely ignore the testimony of the student and his or her supporters.

When Josh first faced removal from Langley High School, the Andersons worried their son had given a bad impression at his hearing because he had “shut down†when officials asked him questions. Josh, who was taciturn and prone to shyness, had been intimidated by the situation, they said.

Tim Anderson called a school official the next day to express concern that the panel may not have gotten the correct impression of his son. “We had the hearing and we felt like Josh hadn’t been heard,†he said. The official told him not to worry about the impression Josh made on the officers because it was essentially a “done deal†once a student was caught on school grounds with drugs.

“His fate was determined before the hearing,†said Tim Anderson.

SCHOOL BOARD members denied that the outcome of student disciplinary cases are predetermined and that individual circumstances are not considered.

“In my experience as a School Board member, every case has been decided on the individual facts of that case,†said Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill), who has presided over 1,000 different disciplinary proceedings.

“What happens in each case is unique to each case,†he said.

But Gibson and other School Board members said they also try to be consistent when it comes to consequences for student violations. They make an effort to dole out the same punishment to students who commit similar offenses.

“I cannot remember a situation where a kid was caught with drugs at school when they were not sent to another school,†said School Board member Dan Storck (Mount Vernon).

FAIRFAX COUNTY Public Schools used to take a more lenient approach to some drug violations. Until 10 or 12 years ago, students caught with a small amount of marijuana at school were only subjected to a five-day suspension and then allowed to return to their base school, said Gibson.

Then, Virginia enacted a new law that required schools to automatically expel students for a variety of offenses, including the possession of marijuana. While waiting for the disciplinary hearing to take place, he or she is also subjected to a mandatory out-of-school suspension for at least 10 days.

The local School Board does have leeway when it comes to drug offenses and expulsion. There are special circumstances School Board members can use to justify a “modified expulsion,†where the student is allowed to stay in the school system with a less severe punishment.

In fact, the Fairfax County School Board rarely expels students outright for drug offenses according to data provided by the Virginia Department of Education. From 2004 to 2009, 905 Fairfax County students caught with drugs at school for personal use received “modified expulsions.†Only nine students were expelled from the school system entirely.

“I can count on one or two hands the number of times we voted for a student not to receive services. The vast majority of students stay in the system,†said Storck.

IN SEVERAL CASES, both the accused student and administrators agree on the facts of a case and the violator admits to having had drugs at school. The difference of opinion often occurs over what consequences are appropriate, said Gibson.

“There are people who think students are being punished far more severely than the offense merits,†he said.

But Gibson said allowing a student to return to their classes after he or she has been caught with drugs on campus could send the wrong message to other teenagers and children.

“I don’t think there is any question about whether learning can go on in an environment that is infused with drugs,†he said.

Some parents think community support and opinion about whether a student poses a threat to others should be given more weight.

Last year, a student from a public school in McLean who admitted to smoking marijuana on a school trip garnered support from teachers, coaches and other students’ parents.

According to the student’s family, many members of their school community did not think the teenager should be forced to transfer schools for a first-time offense.

Several people wrote letters of support on behalf of the student to the hearing officers presiding over his case but the school system still removed the student from his base school. According to the student’s family, the hearing officers appeared to ignore or disregard public opinion about their son.

Unhappy families who appeal to the School Board and hope the members will depart from the decision of the hearing officers are typically out of luck. It is rare for a School Board panel to reject a recommendation on a disciplinary matter forwarded from staff.

“Over 90 percent of the time, we accept what the hearing officer has sent us,†said Storck.

The strong correlation between the hearing office recommendation and School Board decision is just another indication that the process disenfranchises students and parents, said Caroline Hemenway, founder of Fairfax Zero Tolerance Reform, a community group that advocates for changes to Fairfax’s approach to disciplinary matters.

“The hearings themselves are a kangaroo court. Principals call the hearing officer and make a recommendation for expulsion or suspension way before the hearing. Right from the beginning, the students don’t get the same opportunity to present their case. Then, almost 100 percent of appeals are denied since the school board never reverses a hearing office recommendation,†said Hemenway.

HEMENWAY SAID there are few positive outcomes that appear to derive from having harsh consequences for marijuana use in particular.

Students in the school system don’t appear to be particularly deterred from using drugs as a result of the strict policies.

In 2008, approximately 38 percent of 12th graders responding to the Fairfax County Youth Survey reported that they had used marijuana at least once. Seventeen percent said they used it at least once in the last 30 days.

“You cannot claim that a child caught smoking a joint is a danger to the community when something like 40 percent of seniors have used it,†she said.

For the most part, the harsh consequences for marijuana use only traumatize students who happen to get caught, said Hemenway. Recently, the Andersons heard from the family of a lacrosse player in Chantilly who was emotionally devastated, said Tim Anderson.

Though Josh, a good-looking and athletic boy, had a positive experience when he was forced to move from Langley to South Lakes in the middle of his high school career, other students are not so lucky, said Hemenway.

Removing a child from their friends and support network and sending them to a school in a different part of the county is not going to help those children who might have turned to drugs because of depression, low self-esteem or other mental health issues, she said.

The process also places a tremendous burden on parents and other family members.

It fell on Hemenway to shuttle school assignments and monitor her son’s classwork at home when the teenager, who is now a physics major at James Madison University, was caught using marijuana and removed from South Lakes High School for several months one spring.

When her son was allowed to attend a regular school again, the family also had to get him to and from their home in Oak Hill to Marshall High School in Falls Church every day. The school system does not provide transportation for students who have been removed from their base school for disciplinary reasons.

For a family with less flexibility and fewer financial means, Hemenway worries that keeping up with a child’s schoolwork while on suspension and transferring to another school would be impossible.

“I lost thousands of dollars in personal business because of this,†she said.

STUDENTS CAUGHT with marijuana also appeared to make up a disproportionate number of those who face expulsion.

According to Storck, students caught with alcohol at school are just as likely to be removed and sent to another campus as those caught with marijuana.

But during the 2005-06 school year, the Fairfax County hearing office considered 154 students for expulsion related to the possession of marijuana and just one student for the possession of alcohol, despite the fact that far more Fairfax County students report using alcohol than marijuana. Approximately 72 percent of 12th graders who answered the 2008 Fairfax County youth survey reported using alcohol at least once in their lifetime. Twice as many 12th graders (43 percent) said they had used alcohol over the past month when compared to 12th graders who said they used marijuana during the same time period.



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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson Alum ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:46AM

To Woodson Mom:

In fact, last night I emailed the information to my counselor from when I was a student. She said she was going to pass it on to Mr. Yost and share with the other Student Services employees. My hope is that there is a student who would be willing to initiate starting a chapter at Woodson and students who would be interested in joining to spread the knowledge about mental health awareness.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Another Woodson Mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 12:11PM

Thank you "how many more deaths" for posting that article. It truly outlines this situation from a perspective from which most of us (thankfully) have not viewed. While participating in drug activity (taking or selling) is illegal and drinking alcohol under the age of 21 is illegal, the punishment should not close all future doors for these young people. NO wonder they feel they have no where to turn.

Has a movement been started to change the process? If so, we need to join in and have our voices heard. These are our children and their futures we are trying to protect. If it has not been started, does anyone know how to go about it.

I believe strongly in actions and consequences. Teaching our children at home and in schools this very basic rule is a fundamental responsibility as an adult. However, all punishment should fit the crime. Never should we back these young adults into corners where they do not see a way out. That is inexcusable.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: whooaaaa ()
Date: January 21, 2011 12:29PM

Just because someone takes their like=let's not assume they had this on-going mental health issue or depression.

EVENTS can triggers a dramatic act like taking one's life.

I know dozens of people who suffered from depression triggered by a job loss, loss of a spouse, family member, etc.

Kids take things very hard. Unlike many adults, it is difficult for them to convince themselves, "Oh, everything will be fine, this is just a minor setback, things will get better in life".

The disciplinary process is inhumane. They treat kids like they are the unabomber-it doesn't matter what the kid did they will treat him like pond scum.

No "Let's make this a teachable moment", no "Let's put this kid on the right path". They are monsters.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: January 21, 2011 01:16PM

Look, I do not have dog in this show, and I may take somethings said here in a not so serious manner. But if the administrators are going to expel a student for smoking whatever then it is high time they looked at themselves.

Being a teenager is confusing to say the least. Being a teenager from the suburbs who is about to be expelled is probably more angst then most people could handle at that age.

No the admins at FCPS - how old are they? in their 30s? In their 40s? In their 50s?
Think about it - if they are in there 40s like I am, they went to high school with these guys. And as I have said here before, I actually DID go to high school with these very same guys in Maryland. These very same people.




The point is something needs to be done. But if you back a kid in a corner with no way to escape, he or she will fight back. And that fighting could be external - family, friends, neighbors, strangers etc, or internal - cutting, depression, suicide and the like.

So admins, I would ask you look at what is going on. Their are good kids, bad kids and good kids who screw up. Each needs to be dealt with differently. Always give a kid options. If you give him/her no options, they just may feel there is no way out.

No back to my usual cynical self.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FHS mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 01:30PM

I thank you, "how many more deaths", for posting that article as well.... and I agree with "whooaaaa". The disciplinary process used by this school system is not only inhumane, it is self-serving and INSANE. I know, I've unfortunately been through the complete process. No matter what they tell you, the outcome is insane. "You can petition to come back if you cooperate and do well in an 'alternate' setting." NOT TRUE. Sure, you can petition, but you WILL NOT return. As caring as the panel SEEMED to be the day we were "heard", they already had their minds made up. THIS kid was not ever to return to "base" school. Not because she DIDN'T do well in "alternate school"... she did. NOT because she didn't cooperate - she did, completely. NOT because there was a SHRED of evidence except "hearsay". So much so, there were NEVER police involved. NEVER brought before a judge. Not that it would matter. A judge can rule, but the SCHOOL BOARD will preside... in Fairfax County, a JUDGE can't even over rule this school board!

And I ask... what sense does it make to "condemn" a student who made a mistake to Fairfax HS, yet Woodson will ACCEPT a student from Annandale HS who made the SAME mistake. "best interest of our children"? Not hardly.

Regardless, that nightmare is over for this family. We chose to relocate vs.. have our younger child finish & graduate at Woodson... WITHOUT her older sister in attendance on Graduation day... lest she step foot on Woodson school grounds before age 23...yes, that is the reality of the far-reach this Nazi-like school board has.

My heart bleeds for the family of this young man. I have NO doubt this could have easily happened to ours - not because there are mental-health issues evident, but, as "whooaaaa" put it so well, EVENTS can (and DO) trigger dramatic actions... especially from teenagers.

I find myself in tears every time I think about this poor young man. I hope, I really do hope that EVERY member of that school board thinks about and understands the part THEY played in this young man's death.

God rest his soul and bring comfort to his loved ones.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson Mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 01:45PM

To Whooaaaa, Woodson Alum, and Another Woodson Mom,

Whooaaaa, thank you for clarifying that events can trigger depression. I think we both agree that symptoms of mental illness can very well be temporary, treatable, and curable. I was not trying to imply that everyone experiencing depression and suidical thoughts has a serious long-term mental illness. Anyone with these symptoms deserves help and not to be labeled by society.

Woodson Alum, thank you for e-mailing Mr. Yost. Do they need to raise funds for this. However, I stand corrected by Whooaaa and agree that many events can trigger suicidal thoughts. That is exactly why we need help for our children. I think your point is that the stygma of mental illness is stopping teenagers from asking for help. Our teenagers need to realize that experiencing a mental health symptom does not mean that they have a serious mental illness. Tbey should not be labeled by others as such. For example, a person can have one pimple and treat it with Clearasil. However, this does not mean they have acne.

Another Woodson Mom, someone needs to start with a brainstorming meeting. If administraters are receiving the wrong training, research and ideas are needed. It will take time. I think the change needs to start at the university level. If a particular administrator is singled out, they may become the example and the scapegoat, but it will not change the way all other administrators have been trained. Perhaps, I am wrong. I certainly hope that FCPS is not requiring them to use these techniques.

Everyone, we must also remember that drug or marijuana use, even if it is only used once, can trigger a personality change in a child.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: woodson blows. ()
Date: January 21, 2011 01:50PM

Its nice to finaly see some people on this fourm being helpful and not pains in the ass when something like this happens. Typicaly the fags on this site would eat this shit up. If I was still at woodson I would be graduating this year, and i can't say i knew this kid, but rest in peace man.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: After the fact ()
Date: January 21, 2011 01:59PM

There are a hanful of administrators who get it. They know what the grinder called FCPS discipline is like. They know the kids lives can be ruined by one stupid act. Try to apply to college with an "assault" on your transcrript becasue you got into a fight with a kid over something stupid.

There is NO COMMON SENSE in our schools anymore.

There is a current principal in FCPS who used to come to school high when he was in high school. I am sure he recommends kids for expulsion all the time. He got a second chance-I guess another kid doesn't decerve what he got.

If FCPS has a zero tolerance policy about keeping drugs out of our schools, then DRUG TEST EACH AND EVERY EMPLOYEE.

When the schools end the K9s in for random drug sweeps send them into the teacher's lounge. Why do they sniff just the student's backpacks? Have them check every purse and faculty backback as well.

Two sets of rule here. A take no prisoners, throw the key away mentality for kids and a no accountability policy for employees.

Give me a break.

DRUG TEST ALL 20,000 EMPLOYEES. Let's see what happens.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: FairfaxZeroToleranceReform ()
Date: January 21, 2011 02:10PM

Dear Concerned Families and Students:

I heard about his suicide last night. I am the director of www.FairfaxZeroToleranceReform.org. We are working to reform the discipline system in this county so it is humane, just, and appropriately effective, and so it upholds due process rights of students and families. We are most keen on prevention, rehabilitation, and due process, none of which exists in proper measure here. I'm updating the website this weekend -- there has been too much to do to get that task done, and too few of us organized to fight this. Too many parents think the horrors of the discipline process here could never happen to their kids, that their own children are perfect, that other "bad" kids will "contaminate" their own, or that kids somehow "deserve" to be treated like sub-human criminals without mercy.

The way things operate in this county is that school administrators (and a few board members) tend to "divide and conquer" parents and families and advocates, using privacy laws and other means to ensure we never find each other and don't communicate, preventing us from organizing.

If you want to HELP fight this, please contact me after today (Jan 21) by going to the website and emailing director@fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org. (I have to make sure that link still works.) We really need legwork to do some of the necessary data and research gathering to make reform possible, to create a proposal, to organize the many concerned citizens and groups, and to record the hundreds of stories that compel this change. Work has already begun, and we have a great deal of information already. But if you can devote even a couple of hours a week to support reform, we welcome it. We are planning a meeting within the next couple of weeks to organize our efforts. There is more to report, and if you wish to be informed, please use that email above (after January 21).

Our greatest sympathies go out to the parents of Mark, and to the hundreds of families (yes, there are hundreds) suffering from nightmarish discipline policies in this county, and the thousands upon thousands in the country.

(Note that I am not using my name in this forum because FairfaxUnderground attracts scummy people along with the right-minded.)

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: :( ()
Date: January 21, 2011 03:11PM

just heard today that he recently found out his mom was going to pass away within a few months.......im not sure if that is the reason :(

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Anon ()
Date: January 21, 2011 03:18PM

"We chose to relocate vs.. have our younger child finish & graduate at Woodson... WITHOUT her older sister in attendance on Graduation day... lest she step foot on Woodson school grounds before age 23"

You have discredited yourself with this statement. Woodson High School has not held a graduation at Woodson in at least twenty years - the ceremony is always held at Robinson.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: TruthBeTold ()
Date: January 21, 2011 03:38PM

My post above under "FairfaxZeroToleranceReform" should have referenced Nick, not Mark. Since I couldn't edit it, I'm posting a correction here.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: interested party ()
Date: January 21, 2011 03:54PM

Anon. You discredit yourself by being petty. I am sure you get the point that sentiment appears to be across the board that the community beleives that penatlies may be in excess of what is required to get a kid on track.

That said, the expulsion may not have been a contributing factor at all. How sad. God bless the Stubans.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: anonymous89 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 04:00PM

I know this is a very sad moment for 99.99% of you out there. Bad things happen in life, but no one, and I mean no one,should have to go.

I know people who currently go to Fairfax, Woodson, and even Robert Frost MS. The senior at Woodson said almost 75% of the school wore black, or blue, in honor of Nick Stuban. The kid at FFX HS said almost 90% of the people wore blue to honor him, even the teachers. The kids at frost are hearing all this stuff to, from siblings, friends, teachers, email, etc. They might be a little young. If you go to drastic measures, even the ES kids could be hearing this, which they should not be.

A lot of people wonder why he "did it", and why would a 16 year old boy, who lives in Fairfax, VA, one of the nicest towns in the world, go to such measures. Well, he got expelled from Woodson in October-November-December, and went to Fairfax High School. His mom has ALS (Lou Gherigs Disease), a disease that prevents you from moving, and other stuff. Heplayed football, lacrosse, track for his schools, and wore #45 for Woodson this year, and a lot of woodson/fairfax hs football plauyers were wearing there jersey today to remember him. He played football for BRYC, he ran track for FPYC, and he even played basketball when he went to Mantua.

A lot of people are blaming Woodson's administration, like mr.yost or teachers, for for expelling him, for posession of drugs. That is an personal opinion.

A lot of people are also wondering, how did he do it? I have heard he overdosed or shot himself through the ear. Very sad. (Moment of silence)

A lot of his friends and family are probably suffering currently, in the pain and agony saying WHY WHY WHY, oh JESUS HELP ME.

All I know is, if you are spreading these rumors, well screw off. Itsnot respectful, and you aren't remembering Nick as a Football, Lacrosse, Track Athlete, and Funny Kid with tons of friends, who was never bullied, and always keeping cool.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: bullies in the school yard ()
Date: January 21, 2011 04:29PM

No 16 year old KID.....repeat.....KID....should be made to feel like the mistake they made is so horrible that they feel a need to take their own life.

Students contemplate suicide for dozens of reason. READ THE DATA. It is shocking. Go home tonight and ask your own kid if they ever considered it?

Statistics tell us they have, at one point in their life, considered it.

Why then, do we treat these kids so horribly when they screw up?

Discipline them, love them, put them back on the right path. Tell them that lots of kids screw up and that it is going to be ok.

The Hearings Office at Gatehouse is filled with callous, hateful, mean-spirited individuals. They ENJOY making these kids feel like they are worthless. The culture of that office is toxic.

We pay 7 Hearing Officers $774,000 in salaries each year (avg $110,000/year). Over twice what a first year teacher makes.

To do what?

Terrorize our students? Drive them to suicide for their own power trip and sadistic pleasure?

Look at the data. There are not enough serious cases to justify their existence. Every kid who enters their grasp is treated like Ted Bundy.

zero homicides, zero rapes, zero rifles/shotguns, 1 extortion, 1 handgun possession. What do these people do all day? terrorize pot smokers?

He wasn't a dealer. He wasn't a gang member. He was a kid, like thousands of others, who smoked pot!

And for that he is driven to suicide and we spend millions of dollars?

Everyone should be angry about this.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: whathappensintheffxstaysintheffx ()
Date: January 21, 2011 04:53PM

Sorry, but is there verification his mom is expecting death soon?

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: student ()
Date: January 21, 2011 04:57PM

I am not sure about that but she definetely does have Lou Gehrig's disease.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: student1 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:06PM

I am wondering if his schools are gonna do anything special because of this matter, like honor him with jersey patches, or a flag?

Also, if this kid was being tortured, than why didnt the FCPS schools do anything about?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:09PM

The school newspaper is planning on running an article about him next week.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: IHATEWOODSON ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:12PM

For years, Woodson was great if you were "in the bell curve". But, their LD program sucked. LD teachers from other schools told me so. All they wanted to talk about was their Newsweek rankings. And, any behavior issues and they label you and throw you out. The cop that works there, or used to, was always a prick. Woodson is particularly bad with boys. Boys are boys. They make some mistakes. Deal with it. Woodson has been doing this for years. Throw them out to another school ASAP. I once heard Yost, when he was the assistant, say to another parent after his son got in a bit of trouble “Well at least he is not Justin X†is reference to another student. That is how he acted as assistant. I am sure it is worse now. I also heard that he once called another student’s father during the grandfather’s funeral to report he skipped school all week even though the family called in each day. Woodson cares more about their Newsweek rankings than their kids and they always will as long as Yost is there. I had two kids there. I moved to the “Woodson District†to send my kids there. I ended up sending my younger two to private school where we love it. All the Woodson District ever did for me was keep my house desirable. I have heard story after story from parents of young men screwed by Woodson.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Fairfax High Parent ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:14PM

I am in tears as I read these stories. My son who is 21 now is no different than most of these children (and yes that is what they are, children) who were caught with pot. Yet, he was never caught. What archaic thought is behind this policy of the Fairfax School Board? Change can only come about if we parents blast the school board members with requests and bombard the administration to do the same.
Yes, there should be consequences for breaking rules...but these are too harsh. Removing a child's support structure and burdening them with guilt during the most turbulent growth period in their lives helps no one.
I persoanally am mailing a link to this site to Principle Goldfarb at Fairfax and every Fairfax Board Member. I encourage all of you to do the same, mail the link to your administration and to every board member. This should never have happened.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: A Parent ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:19PM

Agree with posts about hearing officers and fcps - it's all about cya, and nothing about caring for troubled kids - 'get 'em out'

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: ... ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:27PM

I am very confident that most of the students at Woodson absolutely love Mr. Yost. He's a great guy and great principal.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson Mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:30PM

Thank you for responding to this person. There is absolutely nothing funny about picking on someone who is grieving. Nothing.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: ... ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:37PM

It's just absurd that these people could come on here and bash a beloved principal and insinuate that Mr. Yost is somehow at fault for this tragic death.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Sad ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:43PM

This is so sad any way you look at it, whether Nick was overlooked, bullied, or just despondent over thinking about life without his mom. I feel so much for his poor parents. I am sure if his mother is that ill, the only peace she will know is when she is able to join Nick and hold him once again. I wish someone had been able to help him through. God Bless You Nick. RIP

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WHSEX ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:50PM

RE: I am very confident that most of the students at Woodson absolutely love Mr. Yost. He's a great guy and great principal.

Please stop posting Mr. Yost.....

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: woodson kid ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:51PM

Mr. Yost is a great principal and a really cool guy- all the kids at woodson love him. The insinuation that he had anything to do with Nick's death is ridiculous. Everyone seems to be blaming the school administrators for being too harsh, but that's not fair. If you read the SR&R that they give out every year, the administration doesn't have a lot of choice in what they can do. Maybe the rules do need to be changed, but it's not fair to blame the school administrators, especially when they do an excellent job.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WHSEX ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:54PM

Yost has been instrumental in the expulsion of more boys that any other administrator I know of. Period. End of statement. He also kissed the ass of the “Good Parentsâ€. He is a phony.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Blue Man ()
Date: January 21, 2011 05:58PM

Boys don't need "Cool Guys". They need leaders and role models. If you think Yost is loved by all you are smoking something that he would throw you out of WHS for. Stupid people here today. WHS's rankings are down since he took over too. The reputation versus LBHS and RHS is way down amongst parents and teachers. Come out of the closet Yost Ass Kissers and read the writing on the wall.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Mom of recently transferred kid to Woodson ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:11PM

Mr. Yost and the staff of Woodson are the best.

My child was involved in vandalism a year ago and was suspended with recommendation for expulsion. As other parents mention here, we went through hearings, appeals, lawyers, etc. with the Hearing Office for many months.

My son was treated like a criminal, with no respect, humilliating him and our family separated from society and denigrated. He had never been in trouble, good grades, volunteer, had beautiful letters from his teachers and members of the community, but that was not enough for the hearing office. They had to make an example (someone said).

I must say that the Board overuled the recommendation from his principal and from the hearing officer, to be expelled from the FCPS, and he had an extended suspension and then transferred to Woodson, where Mr. Yost and his staff embraced him.

Only the parents and students who have gone through this will understand.

We have to do something to prevent more tragedies. Josh Andersen's tragegy in 2009 and Nick's must encourage our community to speak out and fight to reform the Zero Tolerance Rule.

We can do it, this is America, and we have the right to speak in memory of Josh and Nick. God Bless them and their families.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Let'sDoBetter ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:18PM

I'm very, very sorry for this young man's family and friends.

These kids get such a mixed message from some of the local schools. "High-performing" schools like Woodson tend to worship the ground that top students and athletes walk on, and all the kids in the school know it. Some of those same kids occasionally do drugs. But, if a kid gets caught, and the disciplinary process kicks in, the consequences are quite severe. The same kid who was trying to fit in with the same kids that the teachers and administrators praise to high heaven can suddenly be expelled from the community. Not an easy situation for an adolescent, much less one with a challenging family situation.

I don't know Yost personally, but to say some of these administrators are two-faced is putting it charitably. FCPS often sends some of the worst administrators to the "best" schools, because it figures these schools will do OK no matter who is in charge.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: --->Woodson Mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:21PM

I remember watching Nick Stuban playing basketball at Mantua when he was in elementary school. Learning that he felt hopeless and took his own life has made me very sad. The finality and permanence of death is difficult for everyone who cared about this young person.

Reading the comments with criticisms about school administration, I have to add a comment about my family's experience with discipline from school administrators. One of my son's was being physically bullied by another student while he was at Frost Middle School. The vice principal at Frost (transferred around and now at Fairfax HS) victimized my son a second time with cruel questioning about the incidents and sadistically refusing to let him leave the room to play in a music program (for which my son had already been told by the music teacher that any student not showing up by a specific time would receive an "F").

My son was in tears with the treatment by this vice principal. We had to turn to Marti Jo Jackson (an awesome and humane principal at Frost) for remedy. While I know there are some wonderful administrators, I do not forgive this abuse by someone who was supposed to help and who caused harm (and seemed to enjoy it, as well).

Regarding, Nick Stuban, the punishment to expel a student is too much like a public shaming. This seems too harsh for teens, who may have a fragile sense of self. Expulsions should be reserved for students who present immediate and extreme dangers to others, rather than for students with marijuana use.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TruthBeTold ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:22PM

Whether Nick's expulsion lead to his taking his life or not, the fact is that there are hundreds of kids whose lives are wrecked by the discipline process FCPS harbors and falsely promotes as fair and appropriate. I'm hoping this terrible case -- another in a long line of them -- drives parents to consider taking on the possibility that every single child in our school system be treated with respect and compassion and dignity, so they may become respectful and compassionate adults. The draconian hearings officers and the process here does not allow for that. www.FairfaxZeroToleranceReform.org is organized to review and reform this system -- to put a STOP to the school-to-prison pipeline, and to put a STOP to FCPS's nefarious divide-and-conquer modus operandi.

We welcome respectful discussion here on discipline reform.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: fcps human resources ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:38PM

IHATEWOODSON Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For years, Woodson was great if you were "in the
> bell curve". But, their LD program sucked. LD
> teachers from other schools told me so. All they
> wanted to talk about was their Newsweek rankings.
> And, any behavior issues and they label you and
> throw you out. The cop that works there, or used
> to, was always a prick. Woodson is particularly
> bad with boys. Boys are boys. They make some
> mistakes. Deal with it. Woodson has been doing
> this for years. Throw them out to another school
> ASAP. I once heard Yost, when he was the
> assistant, say to another parent after his son got
> in a bit of trouble “Well at least he is not
> Justin X†is reference to another student. That
> is how he acted as assistant. I am sure it is
> worse now. I also heard that he once called
> another student’s father during the
> grandfather’s funeral to report he skipped
> school all week even though the family called in
> each day. Woodson cares more about their Newsweek
> rankings than their kids and they always will as
> long as Yost is there. I had two kids there. I
> moved to the “Woodson District†to send my
> kids there. I ended up sending my younger two to
> private school where we love it. All the Woodson
> District ever did for me was keep my house
> desirable. I have heard story after story from
> parents of young men screwed by Woodson.


There is a saying I heard years ago from an administrator in another large district:

They move them around like the Catholic church moved priests.

I'm shocked at the email drinking buddy stuff some FCPS employees have with Bradsher.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Kay ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:47PM

You know, it's really strange to hear that he's dead now. I just saw him a few days ago in class.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: blahblahblah<3 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:49PM

To Kay:

Was Nick acting strange before his death? Did he seem unhappy at Fairfax, or was he popular? Was he bullied?

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 21, 2011 06:57PM

Beloved or not, the principal of Woodson is culpable in this, if for no other reason than he is a willing participant in a system gone off the deep end. Zero tolerance is a thoroughly discredited approach to policing and discipline. The literature available shows it's never worked in maintaining order, and doubtless ever will. It obviously didn't achieve the desired result here, and FCPS has touted its use for years. The principal, surely an intelligent and educated man, should take offense at being denied his ability to rationally assess a situation and act in the best interests of his community. The sheer stupidity of a policy in which "problem" students are disciplined by making them another school's problem aside, I think anyone who does not stand up to this form of institutional bullying (which makes school yard tussles quaint by comparison) is at a minimum, craven. Is a job really worth it?

The heart of the matter is, sadly, all about money. Not kids, not education, not even teachers and administrators. It certainly isn't about protecting students from each other, because if it were, the talks about "bullying" that go on in every grade school classroom would be unnecessary. Fairfax County Public Schools is self-insured. The mindless enforcement of policies that themselves are hypocritical is all about being able to defend the School Board and System in Court. It's all about keeping two words, "institutional" and "liability" out of the same sentence.

I grew up in Fairfax County, attending 1st through 12th grade in its schools. After years of living in a another area jurisdiction, we returned to the county for its schools when our kids reached school-age. I've got kids in this very pyramid now. My kid's are not having the same experiences my siblings, my friends, and I had years ago. From byzantine and capricious disciplinary procedures, principals who are out and out liars, to the opposite side where students being bullied are given ineffective help, I've seen it all. I am thoroughly disappointed. Somewhere along line, probably about the time that FCPS's student handbook of "Rights and Responsibilities" became the student handbook of "Responsibilities and Rights" (a very Orwellian sentiment, as if "rights" only obtain to those who meet some arbitrary list of duties), FCPS went to war against it's own constituency, us.

Teenagers are not adults. Research clearly documents what any parent knows: they "think" differently, typically act impulsively, and too often do not understand either situational context or the consequences of their acts. They do stupid things. Correcting those mistakes is done with the intention of changing behavior (a process sometimes referred to as "civilizing"), not punishment. That's why we isolate them in school and take years to train them. That's why culturally and legally we have the concept of an "age of majority" -- a simple recognition that they are not fully formed and not quite accountable in an adult sense. That's one of the social reasons we have families, to teach kids (sometimes many times over) right from wrong as we see it, and to practice the simple principles of first learned at home and then in Kindergarten. Teachers and administrators aren't stupid (for the most part). They're human, have families, made mistakes as kids, and know these things about minors to be true. And I'm not starry eyed. I stand up in front of students too; and understand that there are those too dangerous to be in a normal classroom. But a kid paying with his own life because he lacked the life experience to know "this too shall pass" is way too an adult price for what is still a child. Shame on us as parents for tolerating this, and shame on the faculty and staff of FCPS for going along with it -- some even with evident enjoyment. "I was only following orders" has a very bad historical context.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: sad when kids die ()
Date: January 21, 2011 07:07PM

this is heartbreaking. Please, let's work together and save the next kid who thinks there is no hope, future, or reason to live. I'm a FHS parent looking for guidance on making a difference. Bless Nick's family and friends.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson Parent x 2 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 07:38PM

Let me start by saying that I didn't know Nick or his family and my thoughts are with them. I have intimate experience with suicide because my older brother committed suicide when I was a Junior in High School. He was a bit older than Nick at the time. My family, and my parents in particular were devasted. The hurt continues to this day many many years later.

Suicide is not the answer. There is NOTHING that is so bad that it can not be remedied with the help of family and friends. However, sometimes in a person's darkest hour, they are so distraught that they are unable to see this, and they just want the pain to end, and they decide there is only one way to do that. It's very sad because they don't understand that there are people in thier lives, and usually many people, that would gladly help them if they only knew.

Nick's decision is not the fault of Woodson administrators or the Woodson disciplinary system. These people are only doing thier jobs and they have been tasked by we, the parents, to make the school a safe place for all students. Unfortunately, many parents (and I'm not speaking of Nick's parents) don't teach thier children right from wrong and other basic rules of participation in society. As a result, there are problems in the schools such as gangs, drugs, etc. The school system must react by enforcing the disciplinary rules uniformly and against ALL infractions. When dealing with a large student body, it's often not possible for them to become intimately familiar with each students particular situation and sometimes they're going to punish a student who is in a vunerable state and that punishment may throw them over the edge. Nontheless, they still must enforce the rules for the good of the rest of the students.

As I said, I didn't know Nick or his family. I don't know what Nick did to be expelled. But if it was drug related, not enforcing the state law in this regard is not a viable solution. Perhaps a better tactic would be to require that each student expelled be madated to have some sessions with a mental health specialist to attempt to determine if the student will need help to deal with thier punishment.

My experience with Woodson was a good one. My kids were not sports or academic stars. High School is tough for most kids. We, as parents, need to take the responsibility of making the schools better places by staying in close touch with our own kids, and by making sure they know they are loved, and by making sure they understand the laws of our society and teaching them that breaking those laws has consequesnces...and the consequenses affect people other than just themselves.

Not of the above is in any way meant to place any blame on Nick's family. Even very loving, seemingly perfect families can have suicides occur in them. I know. My parents and my brothers and sisters all loved my brother. Sometimes it's just not enough. May Nick rest in peace and may his family find the strength to endure this senseless tragedy.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Mom of recently transferred kid to Woodson ()
Date: January 21, 2011 07:40PM

Re my previous post 06:11 pm

Please check the Washington Post tomorrow. Article by journalist Donna St. George.

We need to work together to prevent future tragedies like this; we owe it to Josh, Nick, their families, and any student in Fairfax County.

My family and I will join the Fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org, tomorrow (as suggested by the director), by emailing director@fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org.
(see their post 02:10 pm.)

We can help supporting and voicing our concerns, with respect, and by posting this information in our facebook pages. We can do it together.

"It takes a village to raise a child" African Proverb

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Sorry to hear this... ()
Date: January 21, 2011 07:50PM

Fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org

Could they have thought of something quicker? FZTR.org??

Sad stuff.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ................. ()
Date: January 21, 2011 07:57PM

whatz gonna be on the washington post 2moro?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Investigate ()
Date: January 21, 2011 08:12PM

TheProfessor - You are right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I went to an all boy Catholic HS in the Bronx where they understood that men between the ages of 16-24 are the stupidest beings on the earth. It was the last school a boy would be accepted in NYC. If you were thrown out of there, no other Catholic School would accept you. I talk there every year at career day and stress this. I tell them to try to make more right decisions than bad ones and they will be OK. It is hard to change at twenty five. In FCPS, they don’t get this. And, as a father and coach in four sports for 15 years around LBHS, RHS, and with some of mine in WHS, I can tell you WHS is the worst for young men who make a mistake or two. I can tell you horror stories about boys being railroaded out of there or labeled as useless. I am not saying anything to blame anyone about this tragedy. I have been close to a similar situation. It is terrible. But, I can say there should be an investigation into WHS’s handling of young men who may just need a helping hand and not a kick out the door.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheTruth ()
Date: January 21, 2011 08:32PM

The good old Woodson Pyrimid! My kids got stuck with Dr. Benson at Olde Creek. What a Jerk. Did not give one shit about the kids. But, every i was dotted and every t crossed. With two LD kids over six years, he did not attend one IEP meeting. But, if a toilet broke in the boy’s bathroom during lunch, there was an inquisition. Oh, and we all had to call him DOCTOR Benson. I have PhD and hate that shit. Ahh, IEPs, where FCPS hides the warts. Paper trails to nowhere. Insulation from judgment. Then, they were off to Frost. One basically failed seventh grade. When we got interims with five Fs, I said I would like to meet with his team. They said, “We can meet you in Januaryâ€. I had to point out that would account for over 25% of his time in Frost. Three teachers had received no homework from him and no one called. After seventh grade, I said, “leave him backâ€. Teach him a lesson and teach him period. They said, “No, let’s do another IEPâ€. Then, it continued in eighth grade. They just shipped him off to WHS where he crossed paths with the A hole cop who pressed charges on a pen knife found during a search for drugs. No drugs, just a pen knife his grandfather gave him a year ago. He did not even know he had it. Then, it was off to alternative schools where he met the rich kids with cars and the kids who knew where the drugs were. Kids can sense when people around them don’t really care and are really looking out to punish rather than nourish. I know the parent Yost spoke to and mentioned that other kid. It happened.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: meh ()
Date: January 21, 2011 08:36PM

i know that there is definitely bullying at frost/woodson. i have recently transferred cuz of it

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ???? ()
Date: January 21, 2011 09:32PM

The Truth- I don't understand how you can blame the teachers, administration, and principal for your kids not doing their homework, bringing knives or drugs to school, etc. Even teenagers know that they can't have knives and drugs at school, and that they have to do their homework in order to do well in school. Administration can't make a kid do homework. That's the kids choice.
You need to take some responsibility for your actions instead of blaming the administration and teachers for poor decisions.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Girl ()
Date: January 21, 2011 09:48PM

Can people stop blaming Jeff Yost? I agree that the system is majorly flawed, but he was just doing what he had to do, expelling Nick. Does anyone remember that Jeff Yost has a daughter in high school? Maybe it wouldn't be the best for her to know that people are blaming her dad for the death of one of her classmates.
And I don't believe that a single act like that can make someone commit suicide. I think a person has to really be mentally unhealthy to do something like that.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DUH..DUH ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:00PM

So, no homework for two months IN A NEW SCHOOL and no parental notification that we have a problem until interim grades come out late November is the parent’s fault? Parents fault? How do you check it until then? It is months since parent’s night. Nothing said that night. Try to have meetings when you see the grades and told to wait to January. Penknife: Officer’s decision. Not an all or nothing: Officer’s choice…Choice? F the kid and try to kick him out. WTWHS protocol. Someone needs to look into the LD Program and how WTWHS handles discipline with boys. I believe that cop only had girls. (Please confirm someone.) Fairfax, we have a problem at WTHS…… I blame them for not letting the family know until a report card come home that there is a problem. They hate boys at WTWHS unless their parents kiss ass. I have heard this over and over from parents wishing their boys went to Robinson or LB.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: YostHater ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:04PM

I am not blaming Yost on his death. But, he has a terrible record with throwing boys out that could have stayed. Really, this needs to be investigated. His daughter’s status has nothing to do with this. That comes with the territory when you teach or work in the schools. Interesting that I have not heard about a son????

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Girl ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:10PM

He does have a son. He's too young to be in high school.
Even if Jeff Yost is the monster people are saying he is, is blaming him really reasonable when Nick had a dying mother?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: woodson alum 2 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:28PM

Wow, clearly NONE of you have any clue what it is like to be at WTW or what kind of man Jeff Yost is. There are plenty of opportunities given to the boys and girls at woodson to do well. Every child who goes there knows what the consequences are for drugs or weapons. No, I don't believe the punishments should be as severe as they are, but the students are fully aware of what will happen if they are caught. It is their JOB to follow the rules. As for Jeff Yost, he has a son, who is not 'too young for hs' considering he is currently enrolled in college. Jeff does his job, he is a very kind man who also goes out of his way to help students who genuinely come to him with issues. Nick's suicide is a horrible thing, and to know a young man hurt so much that he took his life, cannot be blamed on one man, who isn't the only one who makes the decision for expelling a student, nor can it be blamed on the school system alone. Clearly, nick had much more going on then anyone was aware of, and no one, but him knows why he did what he did. It is a complete and utter waste of time to sit here and try and place blame on someone or something, when no one knows, or will ever know, what was the true cause for the tragic incident. Instead, take your time and use it to construct activities and programs that steer away from this, and do your best to reform policies you don't agree with. Rest in Peace Nick.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FHS mom x2 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:37PM

@ Girl: "And I don't believe that a single act like that can make someone commit suicide. I think a person has to really be mentally unhealthy to do something like that.

Are you kidding!?! Are you 12??? Do you think that young man in college that jumped off the bridge after his personal life was broadcast all over the internet had mental issues BEFORE that happened?! It certainly hasn't been reported as such.

Really.

Events.... intense, life-altering events can AND DO cause drastic reactions. Drastic to the point of chosing to end life as one knows it. And kids this age don't have the maturity and reasoning of fore-sight. They don't have the ability (most, any way) to really wrap thier minds around the situation and look far enough down the road to see they CAN get through it, CAN get around it and life WILL go on, and WILL be good....they do NOT believe they can ever put something like this behind them.

Not saying I have any insight at all to Nick's reasons. I didn't even know the young man,but I DO know that the humiliation, the shame, the loss of all support... yes, that will have a profound effect on a person - especially a teen ager. Especially a teenager ALREADY dealing with a gravely ill parent.

Especially a boy and his mom.

God bless this family in thier grief.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Bob2011 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:48PM

Come on people. A dad and mom lost their son for whatever reason. A reason we will never know. If you have kids hug them now, love them, be there for them. I am not saying this did not happen in their home, but with a mom with ALS, and a dad trying to cope with this while raising a son.... My thoughts and prayers go out to the family. Yes kids make mistakes - one strike and out has got to go.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FHS mom x2 ()
Date: January 21, 2011 10:55PM

Thank you, Bob2011.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Whocares what mynameis ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:08PM

Suicide. Wasnt the first attempt either. Says the police report

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Girl ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:23PM

woodson alum 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, clearly NONE of you have any clue what it is
> like to be at WTW or what kind of man Jeff Yost
> is. There are plenty of opportunities given to the
> boys and girls at woodson to do well. Every child
> who goes there knows what the consequences are for
> drugs or weapons. No, I don't believe the
> punishments should be as severe as they are, but
> the students are fully aware of what will happen
> if they are caught. It is their JOB to follow the
> rules. As for Jeff Yost, he has a son, who is not
> 'too young for hs' considering he is currently
> enrolled in college. Jeff does his job, he is a
> very kind man who also goes out of his way to help
> students who genuinely come to him with issues.
> Nick's suicide is a horrible thing, and to know a
> young man hurt so much that he took his life,
> cannot be blamed on one man, who isn't the only
> one who makes the decision for expelling a
> student, nor can it be blamed on the school system
> alone. Clearly, nick had much more going on then
> anyone was aware of, and no one, but him knows why
> he did what he did. It is a complete and utter
> waste of time to sit here and try and place blame
> on someone or something, when no one knows, or
> will ever know, what was the true cause for the
> tragic incident. Instead, take your time and use
> it to construct activities and programs that steer
> away from this, and do your best to reform
> policies you don't agree with. Rest in Peace Nick.


I currently go to Woodson. Mr. Yost does have a younger son, I didn't know he had an older one too.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Girl ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:26PM

FHS mom x2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Girl: "And I don't believe that a single act
> like that can make someone commit suicide. I think
> a person has to really be mentally unhealthy to do
> something like that.
>
> Are you kidding!?! Are you 12??? Do you think
> that young man in college that jumped off the
> bridge after his personal life was broadcast all
> over the internet had mental issues BEFORE that
> happened?! It certainly hasn't been reported as
> such.
>
> Really.
>
> Events.... intense, life-altering events can AND
> DO cause drastic reactions. Drastic to the point
> of chosing to end life as one knows it. And kids
> this age don't have the maturity and reasoning of
> fore-sight. They don't have the ability (most,
> any way) to really wrap thier minds around the
> situation and look far enough down the road to see
> they CAN get through it, CAN get around it and
> life WILL go on, and WILL be good....they do NOT
> believe they can ever put something like this
> behind them.
>
> Not saying I have any insight at all to Nick's
> reasons. I didn't even know the young man,but I DO
> know that the humiliation, the shame, the loss of
> all support... yes, that will have a profound
> effect on a person - especially a teen ager.
> Especially a teenager ALREADY dealing with a
> gravely ill parent.
>
> Especially a boy and his mom.
>
> God bless this family in thier grief.

I phrased what I wanted to say incorrectly. All I mean is that I don't think a single event- at least not one like getting expelled from school- can make a person commit suicide unless they already have emotional problems. I made my point badly, but my point is that I don't think it's fair to soley blame the FCPS administration for Nick's suicide.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Woodson mom ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:35PM

The fact is that what Nick was suffering had to do with everything that had been going on. He was a child with promise and a future which he could not see. Why, only he would be able to answer. We need to do something about this system that obviously is not working. As for Mr Yost he was doing what he has to do. I dont believe he wanted to do any harm to any of the children that are being shuffled around. Lets find a way to change this problem so Mr Yost can do what is needed to protect all the children.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 21, 2011 11:50PM

How many kids does FCPS have to kill before we parents do something to make FCPS stop?

I'm sick of the child hating monsters who run the system: Grattan and Scanlan.

Woodson Mom -

do you know that principals daily violate the SRR by interrogating students regarding disciplinary matters before contacting parents. A direct and blatant violation for which none has ever been disciplined. SROs (cops in the schools) daily interrogate students/suspects regarding criminal matters without giving them their Miranda warnings.

do you know the principals call the appeals office before they impose punishment. Thus the appeals office really is imposing the punishment they will later review on appeal.

That appeals are denied almost 100% of the time.

That the appeals hearing mostly consists of the hearing officer berating and denigrating the student.

You platitudes would be enraging if they did not demonstrate your total cluelessness.

Woodson parent x2

If only you could see how arrogant, condescending, cruel and heartless your post is.

It is all Yost's Grattan's, Scanlan's and Dale's fault. They are the adults and they made the choice to treat this boy this way. Over what? Guns, knives, bombs? No pot.

but mostly its the fault of Tessie Wilson, Stuart Gibson and the other members of the School Board who insist on a "fry'em all" discipline system.

And it's your fault for rationalizing this sick, twisted system.

Girl

even in a "system", Jeff Yost had a choice and the choice he made led to this suicide. Apparently Yost targets boys. Many parents who only have girls can be very judgmental and harsh toward boys. Yost's boy will never suffer Nick's fate 'cause he can go to Dad's school where no one will hold young Yost accountable for anything for fear of alienating their boss, Daddy Yost.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2011 11:53PM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 22, 2011 12:00AM

Woodson mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact is that what Nick was suffering had to do with everything that had been going on. He was a child with promise and a future which he could not
see. Why, only he would be able to answer. We need to do something about this system that obviously is not working. As for Mr Yost he was doing what he has to do. I dont believe he wanted to do any harm to any of the children that are being shuffled around. Lets find a way to change this problem so Mr Yost can do what is needed to protect all the children.<

Lets start by finding Mr.Yost employment where he can stop targeting boys for destruction. Yost had choices. He appears to take every opportunity he has to harm boys.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: woodson alum 2 ()
Date: January 22, 2011 12:00AM

Thomas, Yost's son doesn't go to woodson, his 'daddys school', he isn't protected by anything. Get your facts straight next time. Your anger towards fcps isn't going to bring back nick, or save any child currently upset over any decisions fcps has made. Shut up, and do something.. other then your mindless banter here.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 22, 2011 12:12AM

woodson alum 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas, Yost's son doesn't go to woodson, his 'daddys school', he isn't protected by anything. Get your facts straight next time. Your anger towards fcps isn't going to bring back nick, or save any child currently upset over any decisions fcps has made. Shut up, and do something.. other then your mindless banter here.<

It's neither mindless nor banter.

Regardless where's Yost's boy is, he will not be subject to the same rules that Nick and Josh suffered under: FCPS employees protect their own. And Jeff always has the choice (that word again) to bring the younger Yost to whatever school Jeff finds himself at. Go pick nits someplace else.

Oh, I'm already doing something. Check your own facts. Timmy Arrington, the assistant principal at south Lakes who hounded Josh to death is gone. Gibson who championed this "fry'em all" policy is leaving. So's Wilson.

What are you doing about it, mouth?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2011 12:15AM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: steve k2 ()
Date: January 22, 2011 12:32AM

You have to remove kids with drugs on school ground. Why let a problem like that spread and risk the spread of illegal drugs in the school system.

FCPS discipline policy is very fair, and all the guidelines are clearly spelled out and signed by all parents in the SR&R book. Parent your kids, if mine ever did drugs in school, I would send them to military school myself. The county has excellent alternative schools, but to insuate that kids using illegal drugs in school deserve a second shot with that school is absurd.

Teach your kids right from wrong people/

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 22, 2011 12:44AM

steve k2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to remove kids with drugs on school ground. Why let a problem like that spread and risk the spread of illegal drugs in the school system.<

FCPS discipline policy is very fair, and all the guidelines are clearly spelled out and signed by all parents in the SR&R book. Parent your kids, if mine ever did drugs in school, I would send them to military school myself. The county has excellent alternative schools, but to insuate that kids using illegal drugs in school deserve a second shot with that school is absurd.

Teach your kids right from wrong people/<

Another neanderthal heard from. Back under your bridge, troll.

It's pot for pity sake. Not crack. Not heroin. Not guns. Not bombs.

A birth control pill gets the same treatment as a bomb.

A grandfathers penknife is treated like a machete.

"Lets destroy every other kids life so there will less competition for my kid to go to UVA!"

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ???? ()
Date: January 22, 2011 08:15AM

Every year, every child that attends a Fairfax County Public School signs and therefore agrees to the rules placed on them. These rules outline the punishments for bullying, drug use, drug dealing, bringing weapons to school, any many other things. If you all are so strongly opposed to this system, you do not have to sign this paper and you can happily send your child to a private school.
However, every student attending a Fairfax County Public School has agreed to these rules and therefore has no right to complain about them after they have violated one.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Friend ()
Date: January 22, 2011 08:24AM

r. Nicholas L. "Nick" Stuban, age 15, of Fairfax, VA, passed away on January 20, 2011. Beloved son of Steven M.F. and Sandra L. (nee Lesher)Stuban. Loving grandson of Robert M and Lois M. Lesher and Frank F. and Helene Stuban. Cherished nephew of Thomas and Susan Monk, Christo and Lydia Antoniou, Mario and Teresa Accardo and Tony and Sheila Shaw. Adored cousin of Lydia, Paul, Bridget, Patrick and Peter Monk, Christine and Suzanne Antoniou, Sara and Robert Rathgeber and Daniel and Bryan Paul. Nick was a student at Woodson High School. The family will receive friends on Monday, January 24, 2011 from 6 until 7 PM at the Bethlehem Lutheran Church, 8922 Little River Turnpike, Fairfax, VA 22031. A Celebration of Nick's Life will follow. His interment will be at a later date in Arlington National Cemetery. In lieu of flowers, the family requests donations in Nick's memory to any organization dealing with Teen Depression and Suicide Prevention.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Friend ()
Date: January 22, 2011 08:24AM

Mr. Nicholas L. "Nick" Stuban, age 15, of Fairfax, VA, passed away on January 20, 2011. Beloved son of Steven M.F. and Sandra L. (nee Lesher)Stuban. Loving grandson of Robert M and Lois M. Lesher and Frank F. and Helene Stuban. Cherished nephew of Thomas and Susan Monk, Christo and Lydia Antoniou, Mario and Teresa Accardo and Tony and Sheila Shaw. Adored cousin of Lydia, Paul, Bridget, Patrick and Peter Monk, Christine and Suzanne Antoniou, Sara and Robert Rathgeber and Daniel and Bryan Paul. Nick was a student at Woodson High School. The family will receive friends on Monday, January 24, 2011 from 6 until 7 PM at the Bethlehem Lutheran Church, 8922 Little River Turnpike, Fairfax, VA 22031. A Celebration of Nick's Life will follow. His interment will be at a later date in Arlington National Cemetery. In lieu of flowers, the family requests donations in Nick's memory to any organization dealing with Teen Depression and Suicide Prevention.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: I blame FCPS ()
Date: January 22, 2011 08:42AM

First I want to tell the Stuban family how sorry I am for the loss of their son. I cannot fathom the pain they are in.

I find it is the fault of FCPS and the SB for Nick's death. This was only pot. Not a gun, not crack, not the beating of another child. Shame on the school system for the one strike out rule. Each child deserves a second chance.

I hope we can all see that kids take things to heart and cannot see sometimes a better future. They are just kids.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: a parent who does not love FCPS ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:00AM

I am not a fan of FCPS.

This is a very sad situation. However, FCPS is not at fault. The family is not at fault.

I don't know the details, except that a very sad young man took his own life. I do know that these situations are seldom caused by one factor.

Kids have been expelled from schools for years without committing suicide. Kids have had sad situations at home without committing suicide.

There are kids in wonderful, happy homes with lots of friends who shock them by committing suicide.

FCPS may need to re-look at their policy, but it is not to blame for this suicide. I don't think this policy was created out of meanness--but to protect all of our children. Believe it or not, people, there are drug dealers out there who want to harm your child. The policy probably results from the fact that, in the past, that some children were treated differently from others. I assume the policy was put into effect to ensure that the wealthier families could not influence the schools. I think part of the reason that the kids are sent to other schools is to give them an opportunity for a fresh start-away from possible bad influences, as well as to send a message.

I personally know of several kids who were expelled over the last few years and sent to other schools who are doing great now. Others are not. I don't know the answer as to why some move on and others don't.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TruthBeTold ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:18AM

Anyone who thinks the SR&R is any kind of agreement is absolutely WRONG and needs to be educated. (One school board member keeps calling it a contract, which is a lie, and tells you a great deal about the way he treats kids in appeals.) Here is the history of this absurd document.

In 1995, in response to the 1994 Gun-Free Schools Act, the Fairfax County School Board published the Fairfax County Public Schools Rules of Conduct. It required that parents/guardians and students sign the following statement:

“I have read and acknowledge the attached Rules of Conduct and recognize my parental responsibility to assist the school in disciplining my child and maintaining order, and acknowledge that failure to do so could result in court action against my child and me.â€

It also provided for a $50 fine if parents didn’t sign it.

The governing Code of Virginia, signed into law by Governor George Allen (R) in May 1995, also stated that parents could be fined up to $500 if they failed to participate in programs that improve a student’s behavior.

Needless to say, there was a hue and cry over these violations of rights. The Rutherford Institute, a civil rights advocacy group based in Charlottesville, VA, filed a suit in federal court, stating that discipline is a parental matter. The ACLU was prepared to file a class-action-type lawsuit based on free-speech grounds. By the end of 1995, William Hurd, then-Virginia deputy attorney general, told superintendents that the most a school can do is ask parents to sign that they had RECEIVED the rules. The ACLU also got the state to make sure the following statement is in all the codes of conduct:

“By signing the statement of receipt, parents or guardians shall not be deemed to waive, but too expressly reserve, their rights protected by the constitution or laws of the United States or the Commonwealth of Virginia, and the parent or guardian shall have the right to express disagreement with a school’s or school division’s policies or decisions.â€

But since then, Fairfax County’s Student Responsibilities and Rights document has grown from a six-pager to a 60+-page treatise littered with innumerable Code of Virginia citations. It is nearly impossible to read, and certainly you have not even “received†the entire document when you'd also have to get the education code along with it.

More important, the policies and procedures written down by Fairfax County have no connection to the way these policies are actually carried out, child by child.

Student “rights†barely exist in the SR&R, and “responsibilities†go far beyond anything required of ordinary American citizens and standard jurisprudence. Due process is regularly violated by FCPS in its "judicial review" of discipline infractions (kids interrogated and coerced into signing statements without being told they can remain silent and without parental knowledge, etc.) Parents, who may be expected to review, understand, and discuss this with their kids mostly don’t (it is way too long and complex and FCPS makes them believe it is a benign and perfect dictator). Many can’t (language issues and and all those code citations).

Those who read it through are often shocked. Those who aren’t shocked have never had a kid caught in the stocks.

There are some Gestapo Javers who keep posting on FairfaxUnderground who believe unquestioningly in the rod. God and Jesus help them if their children are ever caught in the nightmare they perpetuate.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: shocked ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:23AM

This is amazing!

A post about a high school kid who killed himself, and there's no reference to Fisting, facebook pick, people being pricks, friends of the recently departed complaining about the hate on this "Blog", people on this "blog" pointing out that it's a messageboard, and not a blog, more references to fisting, people asking where the funeral is.

Sadly, the people bashing fcps have taken over the thread from the usual bastards who frequent this site.

Let's take back FU!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dadof4 ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:35AM

It's time for someone to take a deep look at WTWHS and "throw them out" Yost. The boys all have targets on their backs yet the girls break the dress code every day with NO enforcement. In the summer they look like whores. The ratio of expulsion between boys and girls should be analyzed. Also look at the ratio of all disciplinary action between the sexes. I hear horror stories about how boys are treated there. Thank God for LBHS.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson Alum78 ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:44AM

I knew Nick Stuban briefly, Coached him last spring. He was always a very polite young man. While the rest of the team was goofing off in the locker room before practice or games, Nick would sit on the bench with his head in a text book studying. I was never aware that Nick was battling depresssion as I was with several other players. The only way I knew of the others was due to the Parents sharing this information with me. Had I known, perhaps I could have been that positive role model for him, helped him steer away just a bit from this path. But as a Coach, that sort of information is not shared with us despite the fact that Coaches spend 3 times as much time with a student during the day as any one teacher.

I am also the Father of two boys in the FCPS system, one at Frost, one at Woodson. I am a graduate of Woodson from back in the day when there was a smoking area out back. Both my children struggle in school, we have endured a bitter divorce, loss of my job, loss of our home and loss of my mother over the past two years. The lowest point in our lives came this summer, having to live out of a tent in a local park. So we know first hand how situational depression can affect a person. But everyday we awake and drive on. Never give up, Never stop, Finish Strong. I have struggled to keep my children in the Woodson district because I believe it remains an excellent school. I have pushed my children to participate in sports because I believe it teaches them more about being a responsible adult than any classroom or teacher can or will. That being said, I have issues with many teachers and administrators at both schools, but I get involved, stay involved and call them out when I feel they deserve it. I am well aware that the systems are broken, not just the FCPS system. I do, however, believe the punishment in this case far out weighed the benefit and can't understand how any reasonable adult would believe that removing a kid from his support network and isolating him could possibly help him.

Nick's death has profoundly affected me as it should the rest of you. Suicide should never be the answer and common sense should be the rule when deciding the fate of any young life.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: VA ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:48AM

Clearly this is a tragic situation, and while we can't know what he was thinking, it does seem the stresses he was under were overwhelming.
FCPS isn't the only district that does this; all the VA districts do and it is due to VA's laws and zero tolerance.

Some have posted that parents and students sign that SRR, so they should know what to expect. What they expect is a hearing whose results aren't decided ahead of time. Why bother with hearings if they only result in expulsions from base schools? What purpose does it serve to have them go to another school instead of their original school, especially when the original school is getting other schools' students who committed the same infraction? Students arriving in the middle of the year, from out of boundary, are clearly kind of marked, right? I mean all would essentially know they had been in trouble, which only compounds issues of feeling like that incident has damaged their life.

Why not simply institute treatment classes, community service etc. and let them remain at their base school instead of simply transferring kids around schools?

I attended Woodson in the late 70's. There was an area simply called "out back" where kids who smoked pot, drank and probably did other stuff hung out while skipping classes. Counselors and others would sometimes wonder out there, but no one was expelled, students weren't forced from one school to the next, losing their friends and support systems..and yeah, maybe it wasn't the best way to handle those kids, but it seemed to work better. I write this to refute Stuart Gibson's claim that students can't learn while drugs are present on campus. They were very evident in previous decades; those like me who didn't use drugs or hang "out back" went to our classes and weren't impacted in the least. While I do wonder what became of some of the more notorious "stoners" most of those kids are now leading productive lives. Drugs are still rampant on campuses (with bathrooms probably being the "out back"), but now rote hearings are taking place.

VA districts should either do away with the so called hearings and simply initiate transfer papers the moment a child is caught, or truly have a hearing, and have differing consequences that are based on the circumstances. a joint doesn't equal distributing 50 lbs, a pen knife accidentally left in a backpack doesn't equal bringing a loaded gun with a hit list.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Concerned Adult ()
Date: January 22, 2011 10:30AM

So a kid gets caught with pot at WTWHS. The solution is moving him to a new school mid-year? That is a solution? In tenth grade? How many adults reading this can think back to being that age and having to transfer to a new school? That is traumatic. What is the ratio of these transfers between local high schools? From what I read here, WTWHS has a pattern of removing young males. Do they also take in others? One strike and your out? When teachers, coaches, and administrators make one mistake, are they treated like this? Anyone else know about this guy Yost and his perceived penchant for cutting an infected finger off rather than treating it with antibiotics? It is pot. How many people in the general public have tried pot in their teens and twenties? I can say that in my HS in the 70’s at least 50% tried it. I know my sons have tried it. How many adults that work in WTWHS have tried it? Should we do lie detector tests and throw them out?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TruthBeTold ()
Date: January 22, 2011 10:44AM

Question for someone who knows: I have learned that Nick Stuban's disciplinary situation may not have involved pot or any other drugs. I'm concerned because I am someone who wants to stick to facts, research, and data, and I would not want assumptions about his case to be used as "evidence" for support of an opinion or argument. Does anybody know the circumstances? Can they be shared without violating the family's privacy.

Having asked that, there remains a profound need for reform of the shell game FCPS plays with kids.

(Re FU, I'm familiar enough with this forum and have enough friends whose kids have been the subjects of discussion to know that families should expect respect from posts here, but not necessarily that their situations be left undiscussed. Many families I know are grateful when their situations give rise to robust discussion with the aim of improving systems that could affect other kids.)

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: really? ()
Date: January 22, 2011 11:11AM

"Every year, every child that attends a Fairfax County Public School signs and therefore agrees to the rules placed on them. These rules outline the punishments for bullying, drug use, drug dealing, bringing weapons to school, any many other things. If you all are so strongly opposed to this system, you do not have to sign this paper and you can happily send your child to a private school.
However, every student attending a Fairfax County Public School has agreed to these rules and therefore has no right to complain about them after they have violated one."


Geez, this feels like Nazi Germany or something.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: A friend ()
Date: January 22, 2011 11:18AM

Darwinism 1 - creationist 0

Oh and if you believe God and all that shit, nick is probably in hell burning right now for being a flaming homosexual. Survival of the fittest, mentally and physically.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: sad parent ()
Date: January 22, 2011 12:48PM

I attended and graduated WTW in 1978. Have a junior at FHS who knew of Nick from his brief time there. This is heart breaking. I'm so sorry for Nick's family. If you care to, sign his tribute page:

http://www.everlyfuneralhomes.com/obituaries/tribute.html?url=http://stei-23986.tributes.com/show/Nicholas-Stuban-90581133

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson Student ()
Date: January 22, 2011 01:02PM

I feel so sorry for the Stuban family. HE was a great kid who was a great athlete too. Great at football and great at lax. He had a big heart, and love his friends. MY prayers go out to the stuban family and to him that he reached heaven peacefully.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 22, 2011 01:06PM

The soon to be reinstated U.S. Park Police Chief, Teresa Chambers, is a genuine heroine. She saw a wrong and tried to correct it in a time-honored tradition; she told the press. Her experience informed her that her force was woefully underfunded for its mission, and she sought to bring attention to this fact. For that, for telling the truth, she was fired. Now some seven years later, she has been fully vindicated, and fully paid. Justice was slow and tough in this case, but as Louis Brandeis said a hundred years ago "sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants". Would that at least one or two principals in FCPS do the same.

I personally am an infrequent visitor to this forum, but it seems to me that every time I pull it up, some poor kid is being mourned after a senseless suicide, and the school system is part of the picture. Or perhaps posters are flaming each other over some group of student athletes who do something both dumb and commonplace (which does not excuse, but merely explains; though as the French say "Pour comprendre tout est de pardonner à tous" ) and administrators decry "hazing" and "abuse" -- leaving me to wonder, "how much of this is just bread and circuses, a few are fed to the lions so that the masses know everything is under control". I have experienced myself, with one of my kids, who is finally starting to master staying under the radar, how Kafkaesque the FCPS disciplinary process really is.

Most kids mess up in small, stupid ways (like one of mine), or even in much bigger ways. What we call childhood is in some measure an opportunity, deliberately created, to do this without heinous consequences. Before the Victorians invented our concept of childhood, kids were regarded as adults in smaller clothes who were expected to work as soon as they were able; and were hanged at age 9 for stealing bread when they were hungry, or burned at the stake when they were inconvenient. A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but not really so removed from administrators who, acting without a shred of real evidence or due process (we'll leave that for Civics class), effectively say to a student "look we know you don't always show the restraint you'll grow into, or good judgment like the 40-something who cut me off on my way to work today and nearly killed me, and we'll ignore the fact that we ourselves once 'drove my Chevy to the levee...and drank whiskey and rye', and we'll exile you for what at 16 seems permanent for behavior we can't tolerate because in reality we are more fearful of helicopter parents with lawyers in tow who just know you'll corrupt Junior than we are of you". The harsh truth about Zero Tolerance, and by extension its' practitioners, is that it's not about improving behavior, or providing a reasonable, adult perspective on what a kid has done. It's not about safety, and it certainly isn't about "teaching moments". It's about political and legal expediency. Or worse, it's about petty administrators with short memories, shallow lives, and an ax to grind. When the two collide, the results are lethal.

To Mr. Yost's defenders, I don't know the gentleman, and likely (dare I say hopefully, in the sense of getting one of "those" calls) never will beyond the signature I see on photocopied letters from the school. I know nothing of his family, and believe that is entirely off limits in any discussion that pertains to his or any principal's professional conduct -- which is all that should be talked about by persons who are neither family or friend. I will say, however, that a person who accepts a position with a higher public profile can expect more than a little invective, and their families should know this as well. If you say he is a prince among men, kind, caring, and generous, I have no basis to dispute your personal assessment.

What I find fault with is any administrator who adheres to a completely discredited adjudication and disciplinary system. Zero tolerance doesn't work, any fool can see that. It didn't work here. It wasn't the NYPD's ticketing of jaywalkers that lowered the crime rate during Mr. Giuliani's tenure as Mayor; it was a dip in the most crime prone demographic. They don't do Zero Tolerance anymore, they returned to "community policing"; you know, where the Cop on the beat knows the neighborhood and can diffuse the toughest of situations with knowledge of the players. Sort of like the principals I remember from high school, back in the 70s. The popular definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Anyone who subscribes, willingly and/or as a condition of employment, to a system that utterly fails in any legitimate objective, bares responsibility for its consequences. And the consequences, judging by events, can be horrific.

It's absurd to argue that students and parents sign the SR&R each year, and thus know what they are "getting into". In this county (in this society), I suspect there are just a handful of people who could read this "contract" and suddenly slap themselves on the forehead saying "so it's NOT okay to bring weapons to school, glad that was cleared up for me". Doubtless even the so called "toxic" parents know the rules without this silly little exercise. This is not about knowledge, it's about wisdom. Despite there being posted speed limits, some 40 million speeding tickets a year are written in this country. Somehow, traffic law still seems to function without yanking the driver's license of everyone caught doing 69 in a 55 mph zone the first time. It's called "mens rea", the "thing in mind", and it has been the basis of our legal and moral systems since the Code of Hammurabi. It's not the act, it's the intent that forms the basis of guilt or innocence. Zero Tolerance turns this on its head. In the name of "orderly" schools, FCPS throws out the very system we are teaching our kids to live by.

It may well be that Chief Chambers doesn't get the funding she needs, terrorists target a national monument, and scores are killed and injured, because the Park Police can't respond to calls they can't get on their surplused radios. But at least she's honorable enough to try, and willing to pay the price of that effort.

The School Board members that has been in office for more than one term should take responsibility for the death of this boy, publicly repudiate this insane system (built on the presidential ambitions of a political hack), re-publish the student's "Rights and Responsibilities" (do a search and see how many other school systems use FCPS's phrasing), and then fall on their collective political sword. To borrow from Oliver Cromwell, "Your have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately...Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!".

The current administration happily ensconced in Gatehouse should sell their palatial campus, putting the money where we residents want it, and work out of moldy trailers until the teacher/student ratio is at most 1:24 in every classroom in the county. This is the 21st century. They can run the entire system via a $49 a month account with WebEx. Premier school system in the nation, indeed!

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Don't Get It ()
Date: January 22, 2011 01:27PM

Before our boys were old enough to attend WHS, we were thrilled that they were in such a great pyramid. Then they started WHS and the problems started. If your child is not an AP student, they are not cared about. If your child has a minor infraction within the school; throw the book at them. I have had experiences with the administration at Woodson, and was very disappointed to say the least. Mr. Yost seems interested only in AP and what that entails. If your kids aren't on the AP track, they are not important at Woodson.

Even an the Parents Orientation for Freshman last spring, Mr. Yost talked about his daughter and how she wanted to take as many AP courses as possible. The quesions that he was able to answer from the audience were about AP, GPA, SAT's, etc...

He is not concerned about the majority of the student population at Woodson, who are not in AP courses.

Fortunately, we have never had to have a hearing, but came close. When we went to have a meeting with Yost about the reason they were suspending our son for a day, for something minor, he litereally told us that if we pushed this issue, he would suspend our son for a week, instead of only a day.

My husband thought it best not to push the issue. Is that the way a top rated high school should be run by its administration? Parents in this community are some of the most successful people in the country, yet their kids seem to have no rights if they are not the "best and the brightest".

After 3 years at Woodson, and two sons attending now, I am highly disappointed in what we thought was going to be a great education. Too many boys that we know have been expelled; without sufficient evidence of anything! Teachers going through phone texts; invasion of privacy in any court of law; at Woodson, kid thrown out for what was written on a private text. Out of FCPS for good. Doesn't matter that the kid was a good athlete and student.

I don't get it; that we of this community are letting this "good" school district get away with this kind of Nazi treatment of our kids;their students. I would love to hear some honest words from teachers at Woodson who don't teach AP. How are they treated? Like second class citizens too?

Nick Stuban was a friend of my son's. Hearing that he was expelled with the family issues that he was dealing with, doesn't make any sense. This is not a cut and dried/black and white world. You took the kid out of his "village". How does that help anything?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Guest1986 ()
Date: January 22, 2011 02:10PM

Years ago as a 15 year old boy, I came home on Easter vacation and found my brother dead - shot in the heart. He committed suicide. For years I was angry with him that he could be so selfish and hurt those around him. Later in life I discovered that perhaps he was bi-polar, all the signs were there, but he just was diagnosed. To rant and rave and blame others - in the end, the person, even if they're only 15, makes the choice. So keep an eye on your kids, make sure they know that you're there for them, regardless of what they do. Kids didn't ask to be born. May his family find peace.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: January 22, 2011 04:40PM

Don't Get It Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before our boys were old enough to attend WHS, we
> were thrilled that they were in such a great
> pyramid. Then they started WHS and the problems
> started. If your child is not an AP student, they
> are not cared about. If your child has a minor
> infraction within the school; throw the book at
> them. I have had experiences with the
> administration at Woodson, and was very
> disappointed to say the least. Mr. Yost seems
> interested only in AP and what that entails. If
> your kids aren't on the AP track, they are not
> important at Woodson.
>
> Even an the Parents Orientation for Freshman last
> spring, Mr. Yost talked about his daughter and how
> she wanted to take as many AP courses as possible.
> The quesions that he was able to answer from the
> audience were about AP, GPA, SAT's, etc...
>
> He is not concerned about the majority of the
> student population at Woodson, who are not in AP
> courses.
>
> Fortunately, we have never had to have a hearing,
> but came close. When we went to have a meeting
> with Yost about the reason they were suspending
> our son for a day, for something minor, he
> litereally told us that if we pushed this issue,
> he would suspend our son for a week, instead of
> only a day.
>
> My husband thought it best not to push the issue.
> Is that the way a top rated high school should be
> run by its administration? Parents in this
> community are some of the most successful people
> in the country, yet their kids seem to have no
> rights if they are not the "best and the
> brightest".
>
> After 3 years at Woodson, and two sons attending
> now, I am highly disappointed in what we thought
> was going to be a great education. Too many boys
> that we know have been expelled; without
> sufficient evidence of anything! Teachers going
> through phone texts; invasion of privacy in any
> court of law; at Woodson, kid thrown out for what
> was written on a private text. Out of FCPS for
> good. Doesn't matter that the kid was a good
> athlete and student.
>
> I don't get it; that we of this community are
> letting this "good" school district get away with
> this kind of Nazi treatment of our kids;their
> students. I would love to hear some honest words
> from teachers at Woodson who don't teach AP. How
> are they treated? Like second class citizens too?
>
>
> Nick Stuban was a friend of my son's. Hearing
> that he was expelled with the family issues that
> he was dealing with, doesn't make any sense. This
> is not a cut and dried/black and white world. You
> took the kid out of his "village". How does that
> help anything?

I could not agree more with your take on Jeff Yost and the kids he and his administration take no interest in helping in school and life. I've told him the same thing to him directly and the community should know,

I'm glad my kids are out of there.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fellow_student ()
Date: January 22, 2011 04:54PM

I think this is very sad and shouldn't have happened. I think the school system is at LEAST somewhat at fault, people- especially kids- do make mistakes. But I think if people turn his death into a battle with all of FCPS, it's somewhat disrespectful. I send my deepest condolences to his family, and may Nick Rest in Peace.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: current sophomore ()
Date: January 22, 2011 06:33PM

This is just disgusting. Honestly. It really is. The way woodson is handling this, the way people are pointing fingers. The worst is the way people are acting in school. It's repulsive.

Suicide is tragic. It's scary to think someone that walked to halls of woodson a few months ago is never going to be seen again. It's terrifying to think someone took their own life. But I am SO sick of it being glorified. Forgive me, I am not a heartless person. I did not know Nick. But I cried when i learned someone my own age took their own life. I cried for his family, for the people who knew him, for the people who were close to him.

But STOP blaming Yost. This was not his first offense. WHS has every right to remove someone from school who is in possession of drugs. Maybe there were other contributing factors to Nick's death. Maybe he was depressed all along. Maybe Fairfax High was good to him, but there were other problems in his life that were not Woodson related. Everyone is going to blame administration. Fingers will be pointed.

Bottom line? Being in possession of drugs on school property is against the law. He's lucky he didn't get arrested.

OH, And students? Stop dropping Nick's name to get attention. Stop acting like you knew him for your 15 minutes of fame. Stop making it your facebook status. Yeah, everyone has a right to grieve. But there's a fine line between grieving and looking for attention.

His poor family and friends are mourning right now. Please respect that.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: bravo! ()
Date: January 22, 2011 07:42PM

When I read this forum, it is primarily to find gems such as yours. It cheers me to think there are such wise and well spoken people as yourself out there, helping to enlarge others perspectives and encourage them to think more broadly. Thank you.

TheProfessor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The soon to be reinstated U.S. Park Police Chief,
> Teresa Chambers, is a genuine heroine. She saw a
> wrong and tried to correct it in a time-honored
> tradition; she told the press. Her experience
> informed her that her force was woefully
> underfunded for its mission, and she sought to
> bring attention to this fact. For that, for
> telling the truth, she was fired. Now some seven
> years later, she has been fully vindicated, and
> fully paid. Justice was slow and tough in this
> case, but as Louis Brandeis said a hundred years
> ago "sunlight is said to be the best of
> disinfectants". Would that at least one or two
> principals in FCPS do the same.
>
> I personally am an infrequent visitor to this
> forum, but it seems to me that every time I pull
> it up, some poor kid is being mourned after a
> senseless suicide, and the school system is part
> of the picture. Or perhaps posters are flaming
> each other over some group of student athletes who
> do something both dumb and commonplace (which does
> not excuse, but merely explains; though as the
> French say "Pour comprendre tout est de pardonner
> à tous" ) and administrators decry "hazing" and
> "abuse" -- leaving me to wonder, "how much of this
> is just bread and circuses, a few are fed to the
> lions so that the masses know everything is under
> control". I have experienced myself, with one of
> my kids, who is finally starting to master staying
> under the radar, how Kafkaesque the FCPS
> disciplinary process really is.
>
> Most kids mess up in small, stupid ways (like one
> of mine), or even in much bigger ways. What we
> call childhood is in some measure an opportunity,
> deliberately created, to do this without heinous
> consequences. Before the Victorians invented our
> concept of childhood, kids were regarded as adults
> in smaller clothes who were expected to work as
> soon as they were able; and were hanged at age 9
> for stealing bread when they were hungry, or
> burned at the stake when they were inconvenient.
> A bit of hyperbole perhaps, but not really so
> removed from administrators who, acting without a
> shred of real evidence or due process (we'll leave
> that for Civics class), effectively say to a
> student "look we know you don't always show the
> restraint you'll grow into, or good judgment like
> the 40-something who cut me off on my way to work
> today and nearly killed me, and we'll ignore the
> fact that we ourselves once 'drove my Chevy to the
> levee...and drank whiskey and rye', and we'll
> exile you for what at 16 seems permanent for
> behavior we can't tolerate because in reality we
> are more fearful of helicopter parents with
> lawyers in tow who just know you'll corrupt Junior
> than we are of you". The harsh truth about Zero
> Tolerance, and by extension its' practitioners, is
> that it's not about improving behavior, or
> providing a reasonable, adult perspective on what
> a kid has done. It's not about safety, and it
> certainly isn't about "teaching moments". It's
> about political and legal expediency. Or worse,
> it's about petty administrators with short
> memories, shallow lives, and an ax to grind. When
> the two collide, the results are lethal.
>
> To Mr. Yost's defenders, I don't know the
> gentleman, and likely (dare I say hopefully, in
> the sense of getting one of "those" calls) never
> will beyond the signature I see on photocopied
> letters from the school. I know nothing of his
> family, and believe that is entirely off limits in
> any discussion that pertains to his or any
> principal's professional conduct -- which is all
> that should be talked about by persons who are
> neither family or friend. I will say, however,
> that a person who accepts a position with a higher
> public profile can expect more than a little
> invective, and their families should know this as
> well. If you say he is a prince among men, kind,
> caring, and generous, I have no basis to dispute
> your personal assessment.
>
> What I find fault with is any administrator who
> adheres to a completely discredited adjudication
> and disciplinary system. Zero tolerance doesn't
> work, any fool can see that. It didn't work here.
> It wasn't the NYPD's ticketing of jaywalkers that
> lowered the crime rate during Mr. Giuliani's
> tenure as Mayor; it was a dip in the most crime
> prone demographic. They don't do Zero Tolerance
> anymore, they returned to "community policing";
> you know, where the Cop on the beat knows the
> neighborhood and can diffuse the toughest of
> situations with knowledge of the players. Sort of
> like the principals I remember from high school,
> back in the 70s. The popular definition of
> insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
> expecting different results. Anyone who
> subscribes, willingly and/or as a condition of
> employment, to a system that utterly fails in any
> legitimate objective, bares responsibility for its
> consequences. And the consequences, judging by
> events, can be horrific.
>
> It's absurd to argue that students and parents
> sign the SR&R each year, and thus know what they
> are "getting into". In this county (in this
> society), I suspect there are just a handful of
> people who could read this "contract" and suddenly
> slap themselves on the forehead saying "so it's
> NOT okay to bring weapons to school, glad that was
> cleared up for me". Doubtless even the so called
> "toxic" parents know the rules without this silly
> little exercise. This is not about knowledge,
> it's about wisdom. Despite there being posted
> speed limits, some 40 million speeding tickets a
> year are written in this country. Somehow,
> traffic law still seems to function without
> yanking the driver's license of everyone caught
> doing 69 in a 55 mph zone the first time. It's
> called "mens rea", the "thing in mind", and it has
> been the basis of our legal and moral systems
> since the Code of Hammurabi. It's not the act,
> it's the intent that forms the basis of guilt or
> innocence. Zero Tolerance turns this on its head.
> In the name of "orderly" schools, FCPS throws out
> the very system we are teaching our kids to live
> by.
>
> It may well be that Chief Chambers doesn't get the
> funding she needs, terrorists target a national
> monument, and scores are killed and injured,
> because the Park Police can't respond to calls
> they can't get on their surplused radios. But at
> least she's honorable enough to try, and willing
> to pay the price of that effort.
>
> The School Board members that has been in office
> for more than one term should take responsibility
> for the death of this boy, publicly repudiate this
> insane system (built on the presidential ambitions
> of a political hack), re-publish the student's
> "Rights and Responsibilities" (do a search and see
> how many other school systems use FCPS's
> phrasing), and then fall on their collective
> political sword. To borrow from Oliver Cromwell,
> "Your have sat too long for any good you have been
> doing lately...Depart, I say, and let us have done
> with you. In the name of God, go!".
>
> The current administration happily ensconced in
> Gatehouse should sell their palatial campus,
> putting the money where we residents want it, and
> work out of moldy trailers until the
> teacher/student ratio is at most 1:24 in every
> classroom in the county. This is the 21st
> century. They can run the entire system via a $49
> a month account with WebEx. Premier school system
> in the nation, indeed!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: he was my friend ()
Date: January 22, 2011 07:45PM

You people sicken me. A beloved member of the community and my best friend has just died and all you can do is blame people and make jokes. stop it and use your post for something more meaningfull than hatemail to Mr. Yost. He is a good man and would never have tried to harm anyone. you people who dont know him stop saying why he did it, we might never know. But for those of you who do remember the good times you had with him and relieze that he is at peace.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: a friend ()
Date: January 22, 2011 07:56PM

You were the worst of all you obviously didnt know him and you make a bold a statement as to say hes burnig in Hell? you make me sick to see there is someone so heartless in this world as you. He was an amazing human being and can never be replaced u jackass

> Darwinism 1 - creationist 0
>
> Oh and if you believe God and all that shit, nick
> is probably in hell burning right now for being a
> flaming homosexual. Survival of the fittest,
> mentally and physically.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Mom of recently transferred kid to Woodson ()
Date: January 22, 2011 09:10PM

Follow-up to my previous post, I share the article from the Washington Post.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/22/AR2011012203855_2.html

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: anonymous. ()
Date: January 22, 2011 10:33PM

that article is wrong on so many levels.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: mantua ()
Date: January 22, 2011 11:22PM

There are no advocates for kids in the school system! The teachers, counselors and administrators have the teachers union backing them. I have three kids; two at Woodson. All three have already gone through Mantua Elementary and Frost Middle. I have had more problems at Woodson with the teachers, counselors and administration then I dreamed I would. I have yet to see any of these groups act as advocates for my kids or others, especially the counseling department! When Mr. Elliott left Woodson I was hoping Mr. Yost would make a difference. He has made it worse. He has not only dumbed-it-down but he has also encouraged an atmosphere of 'you are assumed guilty if there is a suspicion'.

My kids have never been in trouble (keeping my fingers crossed that it continues) at school but instead have always been very academically focused (again, keeping my fingers crossed that it continues). Even with this extreme focus, I have never felt Mr. Yost connected and an advocate for my kids. So, I disagree with the remarks that Mr. Yost is more concerned with the AP students because my kids are those AP students. It seems Mr. Yost is not for either group, so his teachers and counselors follow his lead! My question is: Who is for the kids??

Michelle Rhee, the former Chancellor of D.C. Public Schools, started www.StudentsFirst.org, an organization that advocates for the students. She understands that the ones running the school systems are backed by the powerful teachers unions and the students have no one! She wants to change that and consequently started this organization.

What happened to Nick was the extreme and he should have never been transferred away from students that he has known since starting Mantua! The school system NEVER tosses out or transfers BAD teachers out of school like they did with Nick. There are a handful of teachers/counselors at Woodson that should be tossed out! This will not happen because they are protected by the unions. Our tax money pays the salaries of these bad teachers, counselors and administrators. Hopefully Michelle Rhee will be as aggressive and tenacious as she was in D.C. with this new organization she is putting together. Perhaps this organization can help FCPS rethink the way they do things and start taking the needs of the student (not the teacher) into account.

Mr. Yost, make a positive mark at Woodson and change the way things are done. Get rid of the ridiculous “return periods†because they are a complete waste of time! Replace this time with mandatory classes (not workshops) in depression, self-esteem, positive verses negative thoughts, bullying…etc, for the TEACHERs and then for the students. Yes, we parents teach our kids the above just like we teach them to read and write before school starts so please don’t say it is our responsibility to do the above. We do it at home but it needs to be taught at the school level as well!

Parents, be sure to go to www.ratemyteacher.com. I have found that the ratings I have read about teachers, counselors and administrators are accurate. This website is a way for parents to share information and stay informed!

Peace be with you Nick. Steve and Sandy, my heart goes out to you. God be with you during this terrible time.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: jojojojo ()
Date: January 23, 2011 01:14AM

You are somewhat mistaken. Essentially there are no teacher unions in Virginia. Yes, there are organizations that claim they are unions, but teachers in Virginia cannot collective bargain or strike, etc. All teachers can be terminated without cause immediately in VA. Whereas in DC, teachers have a contract negotiated by their union that outlines procedures for termination, layoffs, etc. Essentially teacher contracts in Fairfax protect the county and not the teacher. There may be problems in VA/Fairfax Schools but it is not caused by the unions. Stop watching Fox News.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: jojoho ()
Date: January 23, 2011 01:32AM

Don't confuse the two. In one case, a young man was outed by his roommate without his consent. In the other, a young man was given many chances to explain himself and ultimately was allowed to continue his education. According to the newspaper we don't even know what he was accused of doing, so he still has some privacy. I know this is a heartbreaking situation, but I think it is going to far to equate Fairfax County Public Schools with a vile young man who posted an internet video in order to embarrass his roommate.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: jimmy jones ()
Date: January 23, 2011 01:40AM

Clearly another parent who hasn't bothered to actually read the SRR. Parents are not required to be present during discussions between school personnel and students. Otherwise it would be called Home Schooling and not Public Schooling. Really, you think this principal wakes up every morning looking for ways to hate kid? Wow. You really don't understand the economics of NoVa. There are much more lucrative ways to hate children than being a principal of a high school. Hell, managers at McDonalds make more money!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPS teacher ()
Date: January 23, 2011 10:14AM

To Duh Duh,

I am not sure where your child attends school, but there is no school in FCPS that assigns no homework, let alone for two months. Furthermore, interims come out the first or second week of October (1st quarter is over 31 October). I am not sure what teacher would tell you to wait until January for any grade. By the time January rolls around, you should have gotten 2 interim reports and a quarter grade. Ask your kid where his grades are. The district sends them home. Perhaps, your kid isn't bringing them to you.

But, with all of that having been said, yes: it is more your fault than the school's fault if your kid isn't doing his school work or isn't following the rules. You have more influence with your kid than we do. Please stop blaming the institution and take responsibility for the choices your kids make.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: a friend ()
Date: January 23, 2011 10:41AM

Please stop spreading rumors on the passing of Nick; lets respect the grief of family and friends and those that REALLY did know him. Nick was a wonderful person and only deserves wonderful things about him.

But I must say, the school knew about Nick's issues and I cannot understand why they chose to remove him from his support network. This makes no sense at all and must change

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPS cares ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:07AM

I know that you all are sad about what happened to this young man but have you considered how many drug addicts there would be anad how far kids would get into drugif FCPS did not enforce their rules. Most of the time when the child is caught it is brought up to the parent and acted on. Then the parent is required to get help for the kid. The way our society is now there are many many parents that are in denial or just dont care. At least a quarter of the parents out there only care about their own lives. I see it daily. The counselors and teachers can't even get the parents into the school. Some of the time there is only one parent that goes to the hearing office. Most of the time when FCPS cathces the kids doing drugs the child is mandated to go to drug counseling. Parents please wake up and see what really is going on with kids and drugs.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: stop the hearing officiers ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:25AM

iTs not just the Woodson principal, they are all to blame for allowing the nasty hearing officiers and the self serving school board to all allow this to happen. Kids will continue to make dumb choices..just like we all did and still do!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:39AM

"But STOP blaming Yost. This was not his first offense". Now, THAT is a genuine Freudian slip.

Current Sophomore, I teach an Engineering discipline, not English composition; but basic literacy is axiomatic to success in the workplace. When one refers to an individual in a sentence, one does not switch from the singular to the plural, as you did. "It is a tragedy that a student took his life", not "It is a tragedy that a student took their life", to paraphrase you. I write this because, frankly, your perspective is a bit mature for an average 15 year one. If you are in fact an employee of the school system, then I am dismayed at your illiteracy. The remediation rate for American freshman entering public colleges and universities is nearly 60%. You need to do a better job, either as a student or as a teacher.

Also, while I do not agree with the current laws pertaining to drug usage and possession in our country, these are nevertheless part of the "law of the land". If the student was indeed in possession of an illegal substance, then it WAS a police matter. The fact that the police were not evidently involved just makes the "drug argument" suspicious. And even if the student was in possession of controlled substances, that does not explain the stupidity of a policy that would move him from one school to another. That's not corrective, it's punishment carefully crafted to circumvent Federal law regarding the rights of the student to a public education.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:55AM

Professor

It is quickly becoming accepted to use "their" instead of "his" or "his/her" in order to be gender neutral in our living, constantly changing language.

Nick's father is saying that Nick's transfer was not related to a breach of a law which makes this tragedy worse.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:58AM

FCPS cares()

Are you an employee of FCPS? I'm not shocked, just dismayed. You write, and (unfortunately) reason poorly. What data supports your ludicrous contention that the number of "drug addicts" would increase if FCPS (or any school system) did not enforce it's drug policies? Your insinuation that the parents of FCPS students are indifferent to their kids behavior is purely anecdotal and insulting. If you are indeed an employee of the system, then your perspective is too jaded and warped for you to make the types of unbiased, reasonable decisions required in education administration. I suggest your talents lie elsewhere.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Pyramid Parent ()
Date: January 23, 2011 12:01PM

"The Stuban family did not want to discuss the teenager's infraction - saying this was a time to remember Nick's life - but his father said it did not involve a violation of the law."

Above is from the Wash Post Article in today's paper.

"It wasn't a violation of the law?"

This poor boy truly fell through the cracks..so very very sad.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 23, 2011 12:20PM

I've read the SR&R, jimmy jones. It's not a student handbook, it's a legal contract drawn up by "B" school attorneys attempting to couch the current attitude of "Your children are animals, and we'll stop at nothing to protect hypothetical 'good' students" in citations of state law.

There is a world of difference between "parents are not required to be present" and "parents need not be and generally are not allowed to be present during interrogation". You are attempting to justify actions that, if they were to occur in society at large, would bring down the weight of our entire legal system.

Suspensions and expulsions are de facto punishments for infractions of the "law", just like incarceration is a punishment for robbing a bank. We as a society recognized a very long time ago that the "state" has an unfair advantage in legal proceedings and instituted mechanisms to ensure the rights of the accused. Students should not have to abrogate this fundamental birthright as the price of a public education. For any offense in which significant disruption is going to occur in a student's education, parents (or an unbiased advocate) should be present in any interrogation. Federal law states that every American child is entitled to a free public education. School officials need to explain why they plan to change that.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 23, 2011 12:20PM

jimmy jones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parents are not required to be present during discussions between school personnel and students.<

Parents are required to be contacted before any questioning regarding a disciplinary matter takes place per School Board regulation.

Further, no police officer, including SROs, may question minor without permission of the parent or guardian as a minor cannot waive their Miranda rights.

Yet it happens everyday in every high school in FCPS.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPS cares ()
Date: January 23, 2011 12:22PM

Sorry about the writing but I am under the chemo now and my kids graduated in the 90's but back then they did not have anything to help kids that were doing drugs and with my 4 kids they lost several friends to car crashes (under influence) or overdose. It carried to their early adult life and did not want to continue schooling and would only work to get enough money to carry them for a month or two. At the ages of 32 to 24 still at times comes to live back at home. The kids that did the drugs lost the drive to excel. As far as I can tell it is still the same with the kids that do drugs. At least Fairfax County has programs to help the kids now. That is all that I was trying to say.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 23, 2011 12:29PM

FCPS cares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least Fairfax County has programs to help the kids now.<

Kids on suspension or expulsion are abandoned by FCPS. They fall behind in class and frequently drop out.

FCPS's disciplinary system is counterproductive and dysfunctional.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Current Sophmore ()
Date: January 23, 2011 01:53PM

Professor,

Please excuse that my grammar isn't flawless, as a 16 year old honors English student. Please excuse the fact that this website was making me so angry and upset last night, that I couldn't see straight.

But I stand by my previous statements. Principal Yost didn't come up with the policy himself. So why point fingers, parents?

If I had a child, I would not want them to attend high school among students in possession of drugs. The disciplinary process is fair. There are plenty of advocates for students at school. These parents who write on here are just so pretentious in thinking their children are above the law.

Suicide is tragic. But please, I hope people see this for what it really is.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: no child left behind ()
Date: January 23, 2011 02:08PM

I agree that those kids fall behind. The kids will sit at home for months before a decision is made. Meanwhile the students are losing out on their educations. When they return, they are even further behind and they eventually just give up.

We need to take care of the educational needs at the very least as a school system.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: current sophmore ()
Date: January 23, 2011 02:13PM

I admit, these children need more help then discipline. But we don't know what nick's offense was. The washington post article was wrong to publish so soon after his death.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 23, 2011 02:40PM

FCPS cares(),

I really don't want to be confrontational, but name two. Two programs that FCPS has that are set up for students in distress. Citing polices and procedures that are mandated by state and/or Federal law won't do. These have to be genuine, "home grown", "we do this because it's the right thing to do", programs.

A cursory check of FCPS's website for such programs was fruitless for me; although I deliberately spent only a few seconds checking -- as if I was a parent or student in trouble looking for help and not a careful researcher. I did note, however, that they have (recently?) placed a 30 second video on the evils of "sexting".

My first thought is "what a keen sense of the obvious they have, why are tax dollars being spent on this, support from Cox notwithstanding". My second thought was "I'm not an attorney, but I believe this is still unsettled law; it's not clear that DAs can successfully prosecute, and not have overturned, 14 year olds for the manufacture and distribution of child pornography of themselves (though it is a good idea to emphasize the 'humiliation' aspect as the video does, since that is a much more effective message to status conscious teenagers)". My third thought was "since only a small percentage of FCPS students would be 18 and therefore subject to adult adjudication, what is the point behind this?" Moreover, since students are not allowed to use cell phones and other communications devices in school, according to the SR&R, how does this issue even relate to the school system, aside of all of us wanting to generally protect kids from childish acts with far reaching implications.

Then I recall "oh yea, FCPS claims some extraordinary jurisdiction that essentially intrudes into the lives of students, and by extension, parents, 24/7 as they say".

I certainly don't want kids to "sext" (my kids know I can and will check their phones, review the call logs, and have the skills necessary to do a forensic analysis), but this video is shameless fear mongering, wrapped up to look like a "concerned" message. It's a way of justifying quasi-police state tactics -- "we need to protect you from yourself". How unfortunate that this attitude does not inform the disciplinary actions that school officials take. It's hard to see how suspensions or expulsions or transfers to other schools are very helpful.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: January 23, 2011 02:42PM

FCPS teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Duh Duh,
>
> I am not sure where your child attends school, but
> there is no school in FCPS that assigns no
> homework, let alone for two months. Furthermore,
> interims come out the first or second week of
> October (1st quarter is over 31 October). I am not
> sure what teacher would tell you to wait until
> January for any grade. By the time January rolls
> around, you should have gotten 2 interim reports
> and a quarter grade. Ask your kid where his
> grades are. The district sends them home. Perhaps,
> your kid isn't bringing them to you.
>
> But, with all of that having been said, yes: it is
> more your fault than the school's fault if your
> kid isn't doing his school work or isn't following
> the rules. You have more influence with your kid
> than we do. Please stop blaming the institution
> and take responsibility for the choices your kids
> make.


FCPS Teacher and FCPS Cares:

Your argument falls apart when a parent can't get a straight answer on a child's progress and assignments from a kid who is having problems and the majority of teachers refuse to communicate any information directly to a parent via e-mail so they can prevent problems. This lack of help by the school and the administration comes even after communications upfront to the teachers about their child's struggles with ADD. The school also puts many roadblocks up to prevent any special accommodations for a child who needs help and the counselors just try to label a kid as lazy.

I saw the real character of the teachers when 2 of 3 teachers would not put in the ten minutes for feedback on a child for a professional evaluation as requested by the Doctor despite follow ups. This was for a kid who never had a disciplinary issue at the school ever. Is that how FCPS cares? Instead of pushing blame on the parents why don't you strive more for a partnership and balance.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Concerned Community Member ()
Date: January 23, 2011 03:41PM

If you think that any principal has enough sway over a kid's life to cause them to commit suicide, you're off your nut.

There were many things going on in Mr. Stuban's personal life. Being expelled from Woodson was only a small part of his troubles.

I can understand children lashing out and blaming Mr. Yost, but if you are an adult who is contributing to that nonsense, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's childish and needs to stop.

A young man is dead - and needlessly so. Throwing a principal under the bus will do nothing to solve the problem of depression and suicide in the Fairfax area.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 23, 2011 03:44PM

Acceptable to whom? Commonplace, yes, but acceptable, no. Even a simple Grammarian such as the one in MS Word flags this construction. What is acceptable today is the use of the feminine pronouns "her" and "she" as gender-neutral in statements that historically would have been made with the masculine form.

I have been using email a very long time, probably longer than many readers here have been alive. What we now refer to as the "Internet" was available (without the web, and other common features today) long before it's commercialization in 1993 to colleges and universities (I work at one), the government, the military, and so forth. Back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth (1985) we used to say about email, "It's bad manners to insult someone over their poor spelling or bad grammar, but it's far worse to insult your readers by not taking the care needed to spell correctly and use correct grammar".

I mean no discourtesy to any "civilian" user of this forum. I made this petty point because I was wary that the poster was employed by FCPS. I have been told that the school system has people who peruse forums such as this, looking for and spinning various controversial issues -- which is both craven and a profound waste if true. I regard my source, an employee of the system, as reliable; however in all fairness I much stress that it is still hearsay. That being said, I construed the poster's remarks to be defensive of FCPS policy. That's really, really hard to do in this circumstance, and something I wouldn't expect the "average" person to do. Support the principal, yes, if you have personal knowledge of him and his good deeds. That is something I can respect, though I may not agree. But a policy that tosses kids out when they're vulnerable, or even more absurdly moves them from one school to another is inexpiable.

In any event, someone in education has a higher responsibility not to be sloppy in discourse. Because if we're sloppy, the students are sloppy; but then we've already lost our moral authority to assess them.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: so very sad ()
Date: January 23, 2011 04:08PM

Two thing that have recently been discussed on FXU:

- This tragic case

- That FCPS is conducting an audit of insurance fraud amongst FCPS employees, and is allowing employees to quickly drop unqualified 'dependents' after they are found in the audit, with no apparent consequences

It seems more than passing strange that a system gives adults in it's employ a the benefit of a second chance, and yet comes down so hard on the children it is supposed to serve. Isn't that exactly backwards? Shouldn't adults be held to a higher standard, and kids be treated like, well, kids.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: colonialsftw ()
Date: January 23, 2011 04:35PM

so i don't go to woodson. it's my base high school, and i've heard from a lot of alumni about how great it is and a lot of my friends there tell me that it's amazing and how they love it there. i go to jefferson. that's right, tj. you might say that i should back off and that i don't know shit about the school system, because i'm in the little bubble known as tj. we do have problems...cheating isn't tolerated at all. my friends' high schools, cheating is accepted sometimes. dr. glazer? he'll pretty much kill you for it.
however, that's not the point i'm trying to make. everyone on facebook, etc. was talking about this nick stuban, and i was curious. then i came across this, and i'm appalled.
none of you should be pointing fingers at mr. yost and saying that him and the "monsters" are responsible for stuban's death. kids make mistakes, yeah, but ultimately, they are responsible for their mistakes. sure, you might think the removal was a bit on the harsh side, and i agree. but i don't think that stuban (bless his soul) committed suicide for only this reason. i don't know the family, so i'm inferring, but there may have been negligence from the family. his mom's suffering from ALS and he's an only child. this isn't the type of setting for a child to be nurtured and taken care of. it only makes sense that he may have felt a little alone.
and stop blaming yost. and for those of you (i'm looking at you, thomas more) that are saying his son wouldn't have to deal with anything because he could just go to woodson and be under yost's wing, you're wrong. his daughter's a freshman there. she's technically not even in the woodson pyramid, she went to frost because of the GT program. her older brother (now in college) went to FAIRFAX. not woodson. FAIRFAX. and her younger brother, as previously mentioned, is too young.
and for those of you who are saying that yost is attacking the boys? i'm pretty sure yost is male. he knows what boys go through, too. and those of you who are saying more boys get in trouble than girls? yeah. THAT MAKES SENSE. boys are more likely to do drugs, alcohol, possess weapons, do pot, etc. than girls. pay attention to the facts.

and stop pointing fingers. we're not in kindergarten here.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: So sad: to TJ student ()
Date: January 23, 2011 05:01PM

Suicide and you BLAME the family or for being a male. God rest your soul that you never suffer from depression or anyone close to you. I am successful and I have suffered from depression. It came on after a life event I could not control.

I am so thankful I have money and knew a doctor who could help me. Most or many are not so lucky.

I wish you luck with your future. You are young and seem to judge for what you do not know.

From: Now a happy dad.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DefendingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 23, 2011 05:19PM

So Sad, are you dumb?
When did the TJ kid (I am one as well) blame the family or for being a male? D you actually read the post, or did you just see a few words here and there and try to make sense of it?
He/She said that people shouldn't be pointing fingers at Jeff Yost, and pointed out things about males because many commenters were saying that Yost was harsh primarily towards males. He/She gave facts about males involving getting in trouble at school, NOT committing suicide. And he/she said that the family environment was not an ideal one, and I have to agree. Im not blaming them. I'm saying that statistics show that kids in situations such as Stuban's are more likely to commit suicide than, say, a child in the typical Lifetime movie type of family.

Come on, people. Read here. And stop blaming.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fcps ()
Date: January 23, 2011 05:21PM

fcps is great i don't know what the hell you all are talking about.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fyost ()
Date: January 23, 2011 05:26PM

Fuck Yost.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Gowalum ()
Date: January 23, 2011 05:44PM

Regardless of your opinion on whether there should be a 1 strike your out policy or not at the Fairfax County Schools it is known that schools still have a long way to go in addressing mental health in their students whether it be when a student is in trouble or if the student is bullied or if the student is classified as having a mental illness or anything else. The school is the 2nd most responsible guardianship for a child after the home. That is true whether its a 7 year old or a 17 year old. I was in the category of "Emotionally Disturbed" due to anxiety and I came close to suicide in 2003. I can honestly say that it gets better. Also, the hurt that my suicide would have caused to my family and the fact that it is never in God's will makes me scared that I made a half-hearted attempt in 2003. I am not condemning the one who committed suicide here at all, but I am warning those who may be thinking about suicide NEVER to allow it to happen. Even when you feel dark, alone, and frightened people can help. There are resources when one goes to a teacher, parents, friends, clergy, etc.. Also there is a hotline I called in 2003 after my suicide attempt and it is a worthwhile one to call. The number is 1-800-SUICIDE http://www.hopeline.com/. There are many other resources as well like www.save.org.
May God bless Nick Stuban and his family.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Gowalum ()
Date: January 23, 2011 05:49PM

As for the 1 strike policy I feel, though I may be wrong, that there needs to be intense discipline for drugs and other offenses, but 1 strike your out is a very bad policy in my opinion unless it is an act where other students safety is at danger like a serious weapon being brought to school. They can also use suspension before resorting to expulsion. Its not good to say "oh drugs and alcohol are normal" but at the same time expelling a student for it after 1 offense may be damaging their futures rather then helping them grow up which is the purpose of discipline and the expulsion beliefs.
At the same time I am not defending the anything goes approach and I think there is a very rationaly median.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPS student ()
Date: January 23, 2011 06:30PM

Ok im writing this quick so please dont comment on my grammar. Expelling students for the possession of something as Harmless as pot it not the answer. Do you think this solves anything? I have a friend who was recently expelled for pot and do you think this detoured his drug use? No, this only led him to doing other much more serious things and caused him depression. I just hope people read this and realize how.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Been there ()
Date: January 23, 2011 07:12PM

I know from personal experience that a principal can be forced to write the recommendation for expulsion by their boss, even if they don't agree.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: To: the TJ student ()
Date: January 23, 2011 07:17PM

Real life in Fairfax is not a typical Lifetime movie. Maybe in your cluster of family and friends. When was the last time someone killed themselves from TJ? So you made your point. Lucky you!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RIP ()
Date: January 23, 2011 07:22PM

In time of grieve, emotions are raw and people naturally looks for someone to blame. My heartfelt condolence to the family, but blaming the administrators for doing their job according to policies is moronic. Seems like everyone want to blame the system, the way a teenager's brain work, family circumstances, etc...
I guess I'm the minority here. Life sucks!! Sh*t happens. Not every kids commit suicide when faced with these type of experiences. In fact, I bet there are cases where disciplinary actions imposed may have saved a kid's future, shocking him/her into seeing the consequences of his/her stupid actions...and may have saved lives.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DefendingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 23, 2011 08:20PM

I realize that life in Fairfax isn't the typical Lifetime movie. Did I say it was? But even you have to admit, Stuban's family situation was in fact a tragic one that may have added to what Stuban was feeling. I'm not blaming it on anyone, like many people have previously (blaming it on Yost? Come on, now).

And WOW stereotype much? Are you insinuating that everything is just dandy at TJ? Last week, a girl in my grade tried to commit suicide and is now in counseling. She's the girlfriend of my best friend. Don't even GO there.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: To the TJ student ()
Date: January 23, 2011 08:42PM

You live in a fantasy world. Keep working on those SAT's. The rest of us our NOT in a Lifetime movie. We live day in and day out for our kids. I feel sorry for the youngster who killed himself and his family.

You will never know what life will hand you. I hope you never feel the pain this family feels. Keep thinking and pointing out how smart you are. The most interesting people I have met did not go to an Ivy league school.

BTW: I cannot remember the last time someone asked or cared where I went to HS.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 23, 2011 08:50PM

Woodson Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Everyone, we must also remember that drug or
> marijuana use, even if it is only used once, can
> trigger a personality change in a child.


That is pure fallacy. Pot is no more dangerous than alcohol. I think you may have watched one too many scared-straight gov't propaganda shows.

and no, I don't smoke it.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: woodson mom ()
Date: January 23, 2011 08:54PM

exactly.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Sad ()
Date: January 23, 2011 09:22PM


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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: A Fellow Teammate ()
Date: January 23, 2011 09:29PM

Nick was a fellow teammate of mine and I will never forget him. He was a great kid. He always put a smile on everyones face and was never in a bad mood. If I was having a bad day I would physically look for Nick in the hallway to cheer me up. There are various groups on Facebook about Nicks death. If you look at any of these groups all of the comments are postive. Most of them say how funny he was and how he was a good kid. I really believe he was a good kid but just got caught up with bad things like most teenagers do. I have noticed around school, almost everyone has tried pot once. I personally believe that the use of marijuana was not the cause of Nicks sucicide. Please do not talk bad about my friend and as a teammate he is my brother. He is part of my family and when people talk bad about my family I get mad just like anyone else would. Nick has three very stong families. One is the football team, the other is the lacrosse team and the last and most important is his realy family. When you make jokes and blame people about nicks death that makes all of us mad. We are all grieving right now and this does not help.

Im really missing you right now nick. Your one hell of a kid and one hell of a brother. Im never going to forget you and I see you when my time comes. RIP Nick Stuban.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ZERO tolerance! ()
Date: January 23, 2011 10:46PM

You crackers don't care when our minority or poor white kids get thrown out of school for a first offense involving drugs/weapons.

But your precious Biff should get 3 or 4 chances for the same offense? Fuck that!

Zero tolerance is the only, repeat ONLY, way to insure equal treatment of ALL kids in this racist society.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: you people are insane ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:10PM

Given that no one knows the offense for which he was expelled, I find it hard to believe that you all are spending so much of your time blasting FCPS. Maybe you should get off the computer and go spend some time with your kids. That might keep them from getting into the trouble you are blaming FCPS for. FCPS didn't make your kid bring a weapon to school or do drugs, they only reacted to it. This thread started as a way for people to post memories about a lost child, and has turned into a bashing session that is not only unproductive but downright insane.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: 0tolerance ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:36PM

All these whiners about giving kids 2nd and 3rd chances. They'll change their tune in a heart beat when a drugged up kid decided to bring an ak47 and spray their classmates.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:29AM

0tolerance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All these whiners about giving kids 2nd and 3rd
> chances. They'll change their tune in a heart
> beat when a drugged up kid decided to bring an
> ak47 and spray their classmates.

More fallacy.

Clinton, Bush, and Obama all used and look where it got them.

Truth be told, more violent behavior and deaths are caused by alcohol than pot.

Zero tolerance is crap.

-------------------------------------------------
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: angry ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:09AM

First, condolences to the Stuban family. My heart goes out to them.

Second, this thread is fascinating in many ways. My child (an athlete) goes to one of the larger school in the county. For a long while now he's said that the principal doesn't run the school, the AD does. Stories abound about star athletes grossly violating the SR&R (eg. punching a teacher in the face) and deals being cut so he could still play. It's hard for the kids to have respect for an administration that is SO hypocritical.

Also,ever notice that the definition of bullying in the SR&R only applies to the peer on peer variety? So a security guard or teacher or administrator (or all of them together) can bully a student and face no consequences? It happens. Want to know what it does to students? Read the articles below.

http://www.stopbullyingnow.com/teachers%20who%20bully%20students%20McEvoy.pdf

http://teachers.net/gazette/wordpress/bill-page/are-teachers-the-biggest-bullies-in-school/

Good behavior starts at home and parents need to take responsibility. But no matter how involved, caring, and focused on character parents are, teens are prone to make mistakes. I don't know any who haven't done something stupid; some are just luckier than others in terms of being caught and/or connected. The school administration has gotten to point of being more hindrance than help, and all the character education is worthless if the administrators are the ones who don't listen or display respect and integrity when dealing with kids. My stomach turns just thinking about how much I dislike these people.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Priapus ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:29AM

So do the parents get a full deduction this year for this kid?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Good Parent ()
Date: January 24, 2011 11:21AM

I had two kids go throught Woodson. I put my younger ones in private school because of People like Yost and his actions. It is reputation above the needs of kids. Best move I ever made. My kids are cared for in private school. I know it and they know it. Every kid has an IEP but it is not a bunch of worthless paper. Every kid is nutured and cared for. They are not thrown out for one mistake. You get what you pay for.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Rhodes ()
Date: January 24, 2011 01:08PM


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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: reality ()
Date: January 24, 2011 01:24PM

I am not surprised to see that the best posts on here are from kids. The Tj kids made cogent points that were quickly misrepresented by adults who brought their own problems to the board instead of discussing the event at hand. Do you people think that the fcps people involved in his education are high fiving each other?? You self absorbed brats pointing fingers have the benefit of hindsight that the people who make REAL decisions do not. They have a responsibility to ALL of their students, not just those in trouble, and they are required to follow the law and fcps regs. Some of their decisions have great outcomes, others do not. You can question the decision adminitrators made a few months ago to transfer this boy all you want, but to say it lead directly to his suicide is irresponsible at best. The loss of this boy is tragic, it should not be twisted by adults with personal agendas into a misplaced vendetta. Have some shame people.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: non-reality ()
Date: January 24, 2011 03:30PM

So the abusive jack-booted gestapo thugs are now pleading that they were "only following the regulations".That's the same gutless,lame, chicken-shit excuse the nazis offered for slaughtering millions. Oh but dear sir, we were only following orders...pffffttt. Pathetic.....

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Tax Payer ()
Date: January 24, 2011 04:41PM

Yost has never sent out so many e mails regarding any one subject since he was principle. I guess we are now to think that he actually cared for Nick? Hindsight and articles in the Post will do this to a guy who selectively uses regulations to ruin young men. A full investigation needs to be done here. Are they expulsing more students per capita versus Robinson or Lake Braddock? All three pull from similar demographics. Is there a sexual bias against males at WTW HS? I know kids have gone many times from WTW HS to Lake Braddock and Fairfax. Is the route reversible? This is our tax dollars at work. We deserve answers. What would Nick want us to do?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: f u place ()
Date: January 24, 2011 04:43PM

A new low, comparing the holocast to disciplining kids in a public school.No wonder people go off the deep end consistantly in Fairfax.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Rhodes ()
Date: January 24, 2011 04:45PM

Can someone post Yost's emails? I assume these are going out to parents and staff only?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Our Nazi SB ()
Date: January 24, 2011 04:48PM

I think the SB loves to control everyone and we are only allowed to take what we are given. We are not to fight back since they know what is right for our kids.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: January 24, 2011 04:50PM

So, now any principal who signs a recommendation to expel must consider that he may be signing a young person's death warrant.

Is this what the people of Fairfax want? If not, we need to do the needful to democratically replace the school board at the next election and require the new board to hire capable, thoughtful administrators.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Another idea? ()
Date: January 24, 2011 05:08PM

We need a board of professionals, therapist, psychologist, mentors, ect. This board will take each child on a case to case basis. Heck Judge Judy would be better. The SB should NOT have the authority to expel a child.


Do you want the drunk Liz Bradsher to vote on any child. She is a complete nut job. Someone needs to send her packing.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: January 24, 2011 05:34PM

I was aware that Liz was a loose cannon, but only recently have noticed that people are wondering about her alcohol consumption...was there something specific that gave rise to this? Otherwise, perhaps it's just name-calling? If so, probably that's not fair. Can anyone shed some light on this?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: on Liz ()
Date: January 24, 2011 05:38PM

Read the thread called "Collusion of School Board Member Liz Bradsher for Political Gain". There are some emails gained through the FOIA in there that will make her love of drinking apparent. If you have ever seen her in person, you will also understand that she has a drinking problem.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ef u place ()
Date: January 24, 2011 05:44PM

A new low, excusing the hateful and vicious acts of the school adminstrators with the same lame-ass "only following regulations" excuse the nazis used.No wonder people go off the deep end consistantly in Fairfax.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WOW.... ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:06PM

Really????? That's completely unnecessary and inappropriate!!!! Nick's family is probably in grieving right now and you really have no right to be making judgement about someone else. He was a very nice guy.... and considering the stuff u posted u shouldnt be talking. You sound like a HORRIBLE person. I feel bad for your parents cuz they have to put up with a kid like. i also feel sad for Nick's parent but only bcuz they have lost a wonderful person......

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WOW.... ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:12PM

THAT PREVIOUS MESSAGE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR "A Friend"

A Friend wrote:



>Darwinism 1 - creationist 0

>Oh and if you believe God and all that shit, nick is probably in hell burning

>right now for being a flaming homosexual. Survival of the fittest, mentally and

>physically.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson student ()
Date: January 24, 2011 06:33PM

I am a sophomore at Woodson high school under the supervision of Mr. Jeff Yost. I know his daughter, and I have been around his other two children as well. Mr. Yost is a perfectly reasonable man who was just following the guidelines that go with his job. Knowing Nick Stuban personally, he was depressed when he moved to Fairfax high school because of bullies that he had to face. Nick was an amazing guy, so please, show him some respect. I know he didn't blame anyone for his depression, and he was such a nice kid who never stopped smiling when I knew him. He could light up a room and make everyone laugh instantaneously. I ask all of you to please show respect to Nick as well as Mr. Yost because Mr. Yost was just doing his job. Woodson students have been greatly affected by his death, and we are all trying or best to cope with our loss as I'm sure Fairfax students are. Please, don't blame our principal for this. He is a wonderful, fair principal with a wonderful family. I ask all of you to please get these preconceived notions out of your head, and stop looking for someone to blame. Nick's death is a tragic loss to all of us here at Woodson high. Please, show some respect to both Nick and Mr. Yost. Rest in peace, Nick. We miss you so much.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Liz is a total drunk ()
Date: January 24, 2011 07:43PM

The above poster is right. I have a question for you? Where have you been? She has posted SO many e-mails about her drinking I am shocked more people are not mad.

This is the SAME women who can expel kids in FCPS and she is hung over half the time.

Where is the outrage?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:01PM

Liz is a total drunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Where is the outrage?

You Liz haters need to take your sad asses back to the Collusion thread and play around with your FOIA emails.

Now, shoo

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drain Bamage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:35PM

Liz is a total speech-slurring, pants-wetting, fall-down drunk. You pathetic liz supporters need to go back to the Collusio9n thread and play around with all liz's FOIA requests.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: BeemThere ()
Date: January 24, 2011 08:48PM

Does anyone know what rural counties in Virginia do about transferring "expelled" students around to other schools? Oris it an automatic out when the nearest next school is miles and miles away?

For the people who think transferring to another school is no big deal-- it is. Not only is it traumatic for the student, but the whole family. I am not even talking about the parents who have to calculate cross county travel. If other children in the family attend the same school, the expelled student is not allowed to attend their athletic events, plays, graduations etc- any school event whether it is held on that school property or not. That ban remains in effect until the student is over 22 years old I believe.

It is a policy that impacts the entire family, not justthe expelled student.

And for the remaining students at the HS, it is sort of like a "then there was none" policy. You never know when the axe might fall on you for simply KNOWING or being near an expelled student.

I would compare it to being shunned in the Amish Community. Its like a death so no onder a kid would make it their final step as well.

Maybe this policy is justified if there is an issue with violence or threats thereof, but the most likely scenario is the student expelled for drugs/alcohol - often on flimsy heresy evidence that would not stand up in a Court of Law.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: adhkjsdk ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:09PM

Just realize it is no one fault. You can blame as many people as we want, but just realize that this is a shame. I knew Nick from Boy Scouts and he was a very kind person with a huge heart. He would always greet you with a Hi ya' anytime. Give respect for him and his family who is suffering immensely.

Please stop all this speculation and for those who don't know him, in my opinion you have no room to speak. You are making an issue and trying to use him a "proof" of how bad FCPS is. It's not the administrators fault nor Mr.Yosts fault.

It's no ones fault.

We could only wish to talk to him.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:19PM

Drain Bamage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz is a total speech-slurring, pants-wetting,
> fall-down drunk. You pathetic liz supporters need
> to go back to the Collusio9n thread and play
> around with all liz's FOIA requests.


^^
Typical Clifton class(less)

-------------------------------------------------
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPSProudparents ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:38PM

Nick was a kind young man who loved Woodson Football. He tragically ended his life. Jeff Yost is an educator and father - it is very shallow to try to blame him for Nick's passing. May Nick's soul be blessed, may his Father and Mother have the strength to endure a pain no person should feel and may all the young men and women at Woodson realize that no problem, no feeling, no trouble is worth ending your life. Nick is gone, let us pray this never occurs again.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drain Bamage ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:40PM

Dan Bramage wrote:
> Liz is a total speech-slurring, pants-wetting,
> fall-down drunk. You pathetic liz supporters need
> to go back to the Collusio9n thread and play
> around with all liz's FOIA requests.


^^
Typical Clifton class(less)

Typical non-Cliftonvulgar peasant. Now shoo....

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Jert ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:43PM

Ouch! Thgat was ruff. But Dane Bramage deserved it; he/she is more than a little vulgar.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Faith ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:45PM

WOW - Darwinism 1 - I think not! This Universe is far too perfect, the air, the rain, the intrinsic feelings and even the saddness we experience are not the result of some random accident. If we know anything with our limited capcity it's that a system cannot occur out of nothing. There is too much in terms of DNA, order, etc for this to all have been "a fluke". May I pose a question - why did only some apes evolve and others didn't and even if you believe in evolution, don't you think there is something greater at work.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: One of Nick's teamates ()
Date: January 24, 2011 10:25PM

Stop these dumb arguments. Its just distasteful and hurtful to Nick. He was a great guy, and a great teammate. If you can't realize that then just leave. Nick will always be in our hearts and his family is in our prayers at woodson.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson Student ()
Date: January 24, 2011 10:25PM

There is nothing wrong with the zero tolerance system in fcps. it's written clearly in the SR&R the consequences of certain actions, and Nick was at fault and got the consequence written in the SR&R rules for his action. His suicide was a tragedy and my condolences are with his family and friends, but lets not play the blame game. Being sent to another school would not cause a person to commit suicide. It's clear there must have been something going on before then. Instead of attempting to point the finger, we should pray for Nick Stuban's friends and family and honor his memory.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Neighbor ()
Date: January 24, 2011 10:41PM

I saw him like a month ago walking home with a friend laughing and smiling now may he rest in peace and all my prayers go out to him and his family may he rest in peace

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: left gaurd ()
Date: January 24, 2011 11:17PM

Stop with these arguments about all this crap
Stuban was a great teammate and a fun kid respect him or leave

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Stoodson Wudent ()
Date: January 24, 2011 11:19PM

There is nothing right with the zero tolerance system in fcps. it's an utterly bogus and blatantlyhypocritical document, and the attack on was a cruel result of the senseless and vicous zero-tolerance policy enforced by the fcps gestapo. Nick's minor infractions, something that many fcps administrators have undoubtdly perpetrated themselves in their quite imperfect youth. His suicide was a tragedy and my condolences are with his family and friends, so lets absolutey place the the blame preciselly where it belongs; with the fcps hearings office. Being bullied by the fcps administration and sent to another school would significantly contribute to severe depression and could lead a vulnerable and defenseless 15 year old to commit suicide. In addition to correcting the ugliness that is the fcps discipline policies, we should pray for Nick Stuban's friends and family and honor his memory.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: escaped from woodson ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:49AM

my 2 cents.
yost was a douche when I had attended w.t.woodson, at the time he was assigned the task of being a menial sheep herder tending to the flock of LD/ED students he elegantly called monkeys and freaks to their faces. I remember this experience well as he mistakenly assumed that just because I was friends with most of the "labled disabled" students and decided to reveal his inner nature. On more days than I can count he tried to treat me with the same disrespect that he showed those students then by calling me a freak and chimpo to my face. He on the occasional monday would actually try to have me suspended for waiting for my bus to go to the "academy classes" claiming that I had skipped school and had left the grounds early...

yost and the other so called administrators only cared if a ap student was at risk of not showing up on its academic or gasp transfer to TJ. In all honesty they preferred to have overstressed students so they could claim their teachers must be working them so hard to be ready for college.

often unless the bully in the fight was ED or LD, the fighting was ignored, if the bullying happened to an AP student they treated it like a possible columbine.
I can firmly say this was not by mistake the school administrators knew what was happening in their school provided no help unless you were chosen GT, and almost encouraged the ed/ld students to be as filthy and violent as possible so he could get more accommodations for remedying a problem thru transferring. It was ingenious, simply torture a student enough that they get labeled, then continue the abuse till they go to quander or ceader and then if any student tries to stand up to the system they suspend everyone until they learn their place.

If yost has continued developing as a human being on the same path he was on then, than woodson has probably descended even further into chemical high where there are only 3 solutions to a troublesome student, medication, labeling and transfer.

it was pretty dramatic the amount of students on heavy prescriptions when I was going there, having so few who had parents that cared about their minds that the total amount of prescription free students in my class could be counted by hand.

four of my personal friends were expelled from w.t.woodson on shaky reasoning yet at their academy classes at other schools they were excelling.


I wont give yost a break, I remember his shit well, and the pair of balls he had when he told me to keep my big monkey lips shut and go back to "BSR" with the rest of my classmates staring on knowing that not one administrator would believe the word of a student labeled ed..


thank god we had the gambling ring, the pot ,the shrooms, lsd on rare occasions,wendys and an italian resturant accross the street and yes the coke and vodka back then, and the planetarium where we consumed things without fear...
and it was always so entertaining that they could not figure out the shrooms were grown on the school grounds that there was always pot because there were teachers selling it. and furthermore to burst any bubble about how it Is and always will be at woodson. the best words i ever learned from any teacher there was from a teacher I wont name for his sake who simply said " its high school not democracy at best this is an autocracy bent on keeping you in your place"


I can only imagine what woodsoon became after yost became principal but it is obvious to me that the shit that went on then still goes on now because sadly another student lost their minds in the building where they wont stop tinkering with our chemistry.

sadly, he lost the fight staying alive. but if someone wants to claim that yost was the nice guy in this, YEAH RIGHT, I bet it would not take much to see that the administrators prefer to railroad kids rather than teach, why else would so many fairfax county students be on speed, either it be the Ritalin or black beauty.


I feel disgusted at imagining that subhuman trying to fake empathy, the only way that creature feels bad is because he knows he could have stopped a students death by acting like a human being instead he acted as his position commanded him, show no mercy show no respect, and if that kids crying he must be emotionally disturbed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DefendingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:51AM

To that person who told me that Fairfax isn't a Lifetime movie...I KNOW THAT. I'm perfectly capable of knowing what goes on. If you read colonialsftw's post, he/she stated that y'all wouldn't be listening to us because we're from TJ, and in "a little bubble".

Well, NEWSFLASH. Although I may go to TJ, I still live in Fairfax. I still know the families and people who are affected by these kinds of tragedies. And when I mean tragedies, I'm not just talking about Stuban's death. I'm talking about all these haters constantly bashing Jeff Yost, a well-respected man in the community, as well as his family. And you all claim to be the grown-ups. Guess what? You all need to GROW UP.

It's more than likely (highly probable, actually) that there's more than one contributing factor to depression and suicide. Kids make mistakes, but they are responsible for them. The removal from Woodson was harsh, yes, but you can't start pointing fingers at people and blaming them for someone's DEATH when all they did was do what has been clearly stated in the SR&R for a while. The Yosts are just as sad as any other family about Stuban's passing, so PLEASE RESPECT THAT.

And for those of you who say Woodson has got it bad because of Jeff Yost, take a look inside my school. If you're caught cheating, BAM, you're gone. Far worse than at all the other schools, I'd say. You copy the answers from someone else? Dr. Glazer and the administration will send you packing. And the reputation you have to hold is a pretty bad one, too. So don't just assume we don't know anything because we're TJ kids.

Also, comparing the school administrators to Nazis? Wow. Immature, much? Other than completely bogus and inaccurate?

Oh, and for the person who made the stereotypical comment about going to work on studying for the SATs? Really? I thought you were supposed to be an "adult". Immature, don't you think? Don't worry, I've been accepted into college, I don't have to worry about those anymore. Well, I better go, gotta work on some GeoSystems homework!

And God Bless all you Woodson students. This must be really hard for you guys.

RIP Nicholas Stuban.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: AttackingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 25, 2011 02:37AM

Also, stating that comparing the school administrators to Nazis is immature, as well as completely bogus and inaccurate? Pffft..the comparison is perfectly appriate and to suggest otherwise is completeyl immature, bogus and inaccurate.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: escaped from woodson ()
Date: January 25, 2011 02:46AM

"So don't just assume we don't know anything because we're TJ kids."

I don't just assume you don't know anything. I observe that you know nearly nothing at all despite being a TJ kid ,I must however assume that that college you got accepted into probably has "Community" preceding college in its name.


the SR&R was a way to remove arguments and parents ability to appeal decisions in discipline situations, instead of having to treat students like children, the SR&R is forced onto the student without any choice except to decent from the Sr&R by leaving the school and being sent to private schooling, so to those parents and students who cannot afford the private system there is no choice in agreeing to their draconian pact. the language that the administrators use when describing the SR&R is akin to someone talking about a contract so that when a student breaches their rules they can act as though the student fully understood the contract and understood their waiver of rights. the whole point of the SR&R is to allow the administrators to pass off any blame for their lack of understanding in a situation, all they simply have to say is, well you knew the rules you signed the contract and you loose. but if you really stopped to think did any teacher or administrator say, oh this is a binding contract please take the time to read over the entire document word for word with an attorney present because this can impact how we will treat you for the time you are in the system contractually.

if there was no SR&R there would have to be administrators who would have to actually take responsibility for their administrative practices. and could choose options of discipline that wont result in the alienation. and possibly become the target of blame or action if its found they were in fact the ones who were wrong in their decisions.

even when i was going to hs, they had the SR&R yet I was always amazed at the *AP and GT kids* who got to have the rules bent and the *normal kids* who were told you should have known what this vague regulation meant before accepting the SR&R contract (that technically nobody ever read because the teachers when i went to school only wanted you to sign the paper and not to have time to read it by making the students sign right before leaving for the day.) It was even more tragic to imagine that for the labeled ED students, who at that point should be questioned if they understood what reality is let alone rules when the administrators would tell them that they don't believe they are smart enough for a normal classroom yet adequately equipped mentally to agree to the SR&R as though it was understandable by even someone mentally retarded.

they can claim what they want but the entire goal of the system in Fairfax county public schools is to promote the tiny percentage of curve busting GT and AP students by disenfranchising the students that could use a real education by further dividing the students into mainstream ap gt ED and LD. so that so called smart students like yourself can go to TJ while most of the true gifted geniuses of fairfax county are simply looking forward to taking their place in poverty working the fry vat at mcdonalds instead of on jet propulsion at nasa thanks to a school system that tends to ostracize any student who cannot improve the vital statistics that allow FCPS to continue to make money.

any student that does not improve a statistic the county wants to see is aggressively dealt with as to not impact the vital budget. i.e. any student who is caught with pot potentially makes the school look bad, so they must stop every student who has done pot from effecting the statistics for that school by kicking them out before they can repeat offend and cause budget cuts in the school.

or like cheating, its an ugly statistic to have students caught cheating, so it helps the school more to eject anyone *CAUGHT* cheating, and ignore the rest who are cheating without being identified so that the statistic that the county will use makes cheating not look as prevalent as it really is. because if the statistics of cheating became noticeably bad compared to other schools it could lead to teachers being fired and the respect of the school to crumble.

so instead of trying to curb the problems of the school, they simply sweep it off to another school and off of their statistic, despite knowing very well that the damage done to the student will far outweigh the value of statistics making it appear that the school is performing above average.

but alas, it is only until someone dies and becomes a statistic that the system and its administrators truly get the scrutiny they deserve by taking their stance of zero tolerance.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: asksdlkn ()
Date: January 25, 2011 06:41AM

Escaped From Woodson: You obviously dont understand the situation. What ever happened to respect. Respect for Nick and for Mr.Yost. Quit hiding behind a veil and if you have a true problem with how things are run then send an email to Mr.Yost. Personaly I think your just bitching about how unfair school is and how bad it is. Well grow up man. Im a senior at woodson and knew nick, who was a great kid, and I know Mr.Yost who can sometimes be harsh on kids, but is a very caring person. If you have a problem then talk to him face to face or send him an email.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: buba ()
Date: January 25, 2011 08:29AM

RE:I am a sophomore at Woodson high school under the supervision of Mr. Jeff Yost. I know his daughter, and I have been around his other two children as well. Mr. Yost is a perfectly reasonable man who was just following the guidelines that go with his job. Knowing Nick Stuban personally, he was depressed when he moved to Fairfax high school because of bullies that he had to face. Nick was an amazing guy, so please, show him some respect. I know he didn't blame anyone for his depression, and he was such a nice kid who never stopped smiling when I knew him. He could light up a room and make everyone laugh instantaneously. I ask all of you to please show respect to Nick as well as Mr. Yost because Mr. Yost was just doing his job

A sophomore????? Yost and other adult supporters stop the phoney posts. Sophomores don't write like this. Yost and FCPS are shaking in their boots.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Get a grip ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:27PM

Instead of griping about school policies and personnel, why don't folks educate themselves about teen suicide and try to prevent it from happening to anyone else's child or your own. This boy's death is a terrible loss. Period. And, I can guarantee that none of us knows the whole story, except perhaps his parents. That being said, nobody is to blame.

Here are some things to consider when trying to make sense out of a senseless death:

90% of people who attempt or committ suicide are suffering from a mental illness, such as depression, bipolar disorder or schizophrenia.

20-50% of suicides are related to substance abuse-- alcohol, marijuana,et al.

Teen girls are more likely to attempt suicide, but teen boys are more likely to be successful in committing suicide.

According to the CDC, in 2009 13.8% of high school students stated they seriously considered committing suicide within the last 12 months.

Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death among Americans between the ages of 15-24.

Suicide is preventable through education and public awareness.

So, quit bitching and start learning how to save our children by becoming aware of the risk factors associated with suicide, signs and symptoms of depression and elevated suicide risk and how to get help.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WTF ()
Date: January 25, 2011 12:35PM

Nice stats. I guess the WTW HS counselors, teachers, administrators, etc. don’t realize the signs. All were involved in this incident. All sat around a table when this kid was judged.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: look in the mirror ()
Date: January 25, 2011 01:05PM

Get a grip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead of griping about school policies and
> personnel

If a kid kills him/herself after bullying, or some Facebook humiliation, or after something like the Rutgers situation, we are quick to lay blame with the bully, even prosecute them.

Yet when the heartless policies and actions of educators seem to be at least potentially involved, we get a lot of discussion of mental illness and depression.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 25, 2011 01:16PM

"Just doing his job, you say?" Actually, a careful reading of the SR&R indicates that principals have far greater discretion then they would have us believe -- e.g., directives are phrased with "may", not "will". A Panglossian universe, the best of all possible worlds. A principal can hide behind the doctrine of "zero tolerance" when mistakes are made, or the phrase "has the discretion" when a greater purpose, such as protecting a star athletic, is desired.

This entire process reeks of hypocrisy. You "kids" don't seem to understand that this is in no way to benefit you. It is to ensure that the SB and system have no liability when mistakes are made.

It is in not way "disrespectful" of the student to call attention to these matters in light of his suicide, any more than in dishonors the memories of children like Megan Kanka or Adam Walsh to raise their tragedies and suffering into a social good by naming laws after them.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Friend ()
Date: January 25, 2011 04:32PM

for all of you who said that he was expelled from Woodson for having pot, you are wrong. he admitted to a legal substance which is why their was no police involvement. because it was basically a type of synthetic marijuana they punished him for having marijuana when in fact his drug tests were all clean. he was one of my best friends and i saw him 4 days before it happened at a sleepover. He seemed as happy as ever because he was with friends. when they expelled him they took him away from all of his friends. His scheduled suspension of 2 weeks lasted a month and a half because fcps was being lazy and took too long to schedule his expulsion hearing. that time away from friends and people he knew put him in a depression. RIP Nick, i will see you in the next life

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Shame on the SB! ()
Date: January 25, 2011 04:34PM

How can you sleep at night with everything you have done. Now you have a childs suicide to explain away. RIP Nick.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: DefendingColonialsFTW ()
Date: January 25, 2011 05:26PM

"even when i was going to hs, they had the SR&R yet I was always amazed at the *AP and GT kids* who got to have the rules bent and the *normal kids* who were told you should have known what this vague regulation meant before accepting the SR&R contract (that technically nobody ever read because the teachers when i went to school only wanted you to sign the paper and not to have time to read it by making the students sign right before leaving for the day.) It was even more tragic to imagine that for the labeled ED students, who at that point should be questioned if they understood what reality is let alone rules when the administrators would tell them that they don't believe they are smart enough for a normal classroom yet adequately equipped mentally to agree to the SR&R as though it was understandable by even someone mentally retarded"

LOL. You're "amazed at the AP and GT kids who got to have the rules bent"? Really? I've been in GT since the 3rd grade, and I took 1 AP course sophomore year and 4 AP courses as a junior, in addition to 4 this year. I've NEVER been excused from following the SR & R, and neither have my peers.

"they can claim what they want but the entire goal of the system in Fairfax county public schools is to promote the tiny percentage of curve busting GT and AP students by disenfranchising the students that could use a real education by further dividing the students into mainstream ap gt ED and LD. so that so called smart students like yourself can go to TJ while most of the true gifted geniuses of fairfax county are simply looking forward to taking their place in poverty working the fry vat at mcdonalds instead of on jet propulsion at nasa thanks to a school system that tends to ostracize any student who cannot improve the vital statistics that allow FCPS to continue to make money."

I'm going to guess that you weren't AP/GT. 'Cause when you look at that quote, you can tell you just have some grudges against AP/GT kids. Were you one of those kids who terrorized GT kids on the playgrounds in elementary school? You also implied that we're not smart, and that everyone else is actually smarter than us. Hmm. You sound like one of those kids in middle school that are like "We're smarter than the GT kids, they're retarded and stupid and have no social life!" Stop the hatin'. This isn't even about AP/GT/ED/LD. It's about Stuban's death, and ColonialsFTW and I were trying to make a point that one cannot simply blame Jeff Yost for Stuban's death, and also emphasized how completely irrational it was to say that Yost just hates boys (like many have said in previous posts).

Oh, and "I must however assume that that college you got accepted into probably has "Community" preceding college in its name."

I got into UPenn and Yale. Guess this isn't the first incorrect assumption you've made on this thread, right?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: get over yourself ()
Date: January 25, 2011 06:14PM

Am I the only one sick and tired of this pompous TJ brat? Go do your homework, genuis. Leave this discussion to the adults.

We don't care how smart you THINK YOU ARE.

You continue to defend a principal at a school YOU DON'T EVEN ATTEND.

Yea, I bet you know him real well.

FCPS played a role in this kid's death....PERIOD.

You don't keep a kid out of school for TWO MONTHS for an insignificant act knowing he is home all day watching his mom die.

It is sick. It is hateful. It is inhumane.

No reasonable person can defend this perverted excuse for "keeping students safe".

If this kid was so bad, so dangerous, then why send him to another FCPS???!!!

Their pathetic argument and defense of their barbaric acts would be laughable were it not for the death of this young man.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Tomas de Torquemada ()
Date: January 25, 2011 06:41PM

Dear Get Over Yourself,
The TJ student is quite correct and you do the entire Fairfax County Community a most serious and grave disservice by resisting the duly constituted authority. Opposition to the established order, and its policies and practices, must always be met with crushing, ruthless, intimidating, terrorizing, and ultimately superior force so that the morals of civil society will be preserved and protected. Go now my child, and in the name of our Lord, sin no more.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: togetoveryourself ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:33PM

i dont go to tj, but i can clearly see that what the tj kids are saying have been some of the most important posts in this thread. they're awesome, and after reading this entire thread without a preconceived opinion about who was to blame, i can say that i am convinced that yost is not to blame. pointing fingers is childish, anyways. and stop treating the tj kids differently ("go do your homework, genius." "we don't care how smart you THINK YOU ARE."). if say, a woodson kid like me, had posted the same thing, people wouldn't be saying "oh ivy leagues don't matter" "nobody cares where you went to high school". stop bashing on them just because they go to tj. they wanted to receive an excellent education in the science and technology fields, so they decided to apply and attend tj. and if this student made it into upenn and yale (early admission/early decision, i'm guessing...? cuz a lot of tj kids do that i think), i think it's safe to say he or she is pretty damn intelligent.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: togetoveryourselff ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:38PM

ithinkyouarewrongaboutthetjkidstheyarethesmartestandgreatestandhavethehighestmoralstandardsevereverandimeanitanddontforgetthatyouprobablywnettosomesmallskewlanddontknowanything!!!!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: highschoolkiddo ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:49PM

i knew nick for a short period of time, but I found this page and this seems disrespectful. i understand that were all upset an heartbroken by our loss but why do we have to thrash about it here when we should be thinking of all the good times we've had with him? i had a class with him and it sure is hell hard to go to that class and sit there without him but were trying to celebrate and remember the happy nick we knew.
RestInPeace Nick. this isn't a goodbye, it's a see ya later <3 thank you for coming into my life and making me realize to not take anything for granted.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 25, 2011 10:26PM

Tell me, Friar Tomas, did you find the Judas Cradle or the Pear of Anguish a more effective method of persuading the obstinate students, er, heretics?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: stop ()
Date: January 25, 2011 11:18PM

how do you think Nick's family and friends would feel if they saw this forum arguing about the cause of Nick's suicide. This should be for his memories and mourning. Please stop

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Tomas de Torquemada ()
Date: January 25, 2011 11:27PM

My Dear Professor,
The particular method of cleansing the soul and purifying the heart matters but very little. My order was waging a war with the Lucifer himself and we were governed by the felt necessities of the time. Indeed, it is refreshing that our approach has endured, and deeply satisfying to see our tactics adopted to the present times in the Holy War Against Teenagers in the FCPS Hearing Office.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Knock it off ()
Date: January 26, 2011 12:21PM

You all should be ashamed of yourselfs.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: sad ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:35AM

Stop placing blame on administrators or others. Pray for Nick and his family.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: how do we honor the dead ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:44AM

Nick's death is tragic for the entire community. Of course everyone sympathizes for the family.

Part of honoring his life is ensuring that another student doesn't take their life. Nick would want that.

Nick had a mother who was dying before his eyes. Why wouldn't FCPS take that trauma into consideration? How could they put him in the disciplinary process-alienated him from his friends and support knowing darn well that it would contribute to his already weakened mental state?

Is FCPS 100% at fault for his suicide? No.

Did their callous actions contribute to him taking his life? Absoulutely.

Sure we can pray for him but we must take action and protect the living.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 27, 2011 03:46PM

What I am ashamed of is a school system that trumpets it's world class standing but produces individuals who write "yourselfs". It's "yourselves", if you are intending the plural form; "yourself" in the singular. This is more than simply my playing the obnoxious "grammar police". This is about pointing out that our educational systems are failing to prepare students (you?) for the 21st century, where reading, writing, and computational skills will need to be at a college level -- specifically, sophomore. As the last century ended, the benchmark was 8th grade.

Internationally, American students are in the middle of the pack and falling behind. It's been estimated that were graduating American seniors on par with their Finnish counterparts, our economy would be 9% bigger, since the newly minted "knowledge workers" would be capable of more complex (and more lucrative) tasks. In the provincial schools of our oh-so-polite neighbors to the north, Canadian kids are on average 1 full grade ahead of American students in the basic competencies. Our situation is due to poor leadership at every level.

You lose your imagined moral high ground when you show such disregard for your audience with improper grammar. Anyone's death is a sad event. A child's is a tragedy. One that seemingly occurs at least in some measure because of a mechanistic act of "reckless disregard" is a travesty of justice calling out for action. The poor little girl in New Jersey murdered by the sex offender living across the street was horrific and no doubt brought bottomless pain to her family. But her death also focused attention on the need for communities to be informed about the predators in their midst. It probably brought her family no comfort, but Megan Kanka "gave" her name to "Megan's Law", and how many children have since been protected?

If this young man's death shines Brandeis' "disinfecting sunlight" onto an indefensible disciplinary system, and change is brought about, then a very good thing has been done. How can that be something to "knock off"?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Friend ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:01PM

Yost had the balls to send this out yesterday....like we should all feel sorry for HIM. What a mean, self centered, asshole!


Well…

It looks like most staff and all students could get some more time “off†tomorrow.
At this point, the schedule for odd and even days remains in place and AS OF RIGHT NOW, grades for students are to be compled by Friday. I am almost certain Monday and Tuesday will remain "student holidays." If I hear anything from FCPS tomorrow about an extension of the semester, I will let you know via another KIT.

PS. Some/many folks have asked and I just wanted you to know that I am doing fine.

So…get the milk and bread and enjoy your time with the kids we share.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TruthBeTold ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:43PM

For those of you who are in or have kids in the discipline process now, www.FairfaxZeroToleranceReform.org is interested in hearing from you. I hear it is organizing and moving forward with reform and have dozens of people already engaged. But it would help to have the support and current experiences of someone "caught" in the system right now. Please contact directors@fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org with your own contact info. I am told information will be kept confidential unless otherwise approved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 07:19PM by TruthBeTold.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Concerned Parent Too ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:46PM

If you are not happy with FCPS's behavior, write the board. I have written to complain about WTW's reputation regarding expulsions. Be heard. Go to their website. All the e mails are there.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: upcoming expulsion hearing ()
Date: January 27, 2011 04:58PM

It is indeed time to shine the light on these inhumane hearings.

Anyone facing a disciplinary hearing shoule either (1) bring a videocamera and record the hearing (you have a right to an official record of your hearing) or (2) bring a reporter in with you.

Let's see if the likes of Dana Scanlan are as nasty when a reporter is in the room.

Time to out the ugly.

RIP Nick. We will neither forget nor fail you.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Go Get Them! ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:23PM

Start writing your school and local officials. Let them know you vote and kids are being ruined!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Pot is bad ()
Date: January 28, 2011 09:08AM

The argument for why the students are treated unfairly is that Pot is not a problem like if the kids were doing heroin or something. But what if I don't want my kid around potheads? Or what if despite your assurances to the contrary, I believe, based on how stupid pothead kids are, that pot is a big deal. I think the outrage only comes if you think that pot is really something like graffiti or skipping class, and therefore school transfer is harsh. But if you think Pot is a big deal, and transferring the druggies busts up the drug cliques seems pretty defensible.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: idontknow ()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:27AM

One can see both sides of the agrument. Most parents believe that their child is "not really bad, just made a stupid mistake". I'm sure I would believe my child's side of the story too if she got in trouble. But, the reality is that some, if not most, of those kids didn't just make one stupid mistake. Some of those kids are smoking pot on a regular basis, are dealing drugs, etc. I feel terrible for the families that are affected by this policy, but in truth how many kids are really being caught "the first time they tried it"?

The other issue is that parents are not coming forward with their stories. If these are just bad judgement calls by their kids why aren't they telling their stories. Even the parents of Nick, quoted in the paper, that they don't want to get into why he got in trouble. Why not? If parents truly believe their kid's side of the story they would let the world know the truth. The only parents that told the unvarnished truth were Josh's parents two years ago. And even they admitted that it was the second time their son was caught with pot on school grounds.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: parents are afraid ()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:17AM

The reason FCPS is able to get away with their bullying behavior is becasue most parents are afraid to stand up to the.

I hear it all the time....."I don't want them taking it out on my kid". Its not just parents either, most employees are afraid for their jobs if they dare criticize something that FCPS is doing wrong.

I can cite dozens of examples. In many cases, FCPS puts a gag order in place for employees.

Did anyone notice how we didn't hear one peep from the staff at Clifton? Why wouldn't staff want their school "saved"? Of course they do. FCS told them to not speak out. They were silenced.

It is a pathetic school district where employees and parents are intimidated into silence.

Someone needs to be brave here.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:18AM

While it would help the discussion to know just what offense is involved, this is an overwhelming time for the parents - the wound is still very fresh. Also, given Nick's Mom's health, just getting from moment to moment with this has got to practically impossible. It does seem clear, however, that FCPS really blew it by turning a 10 day suspension into a 2 month exile.

The Connection article is more informative about the situation, even tho it does not state the nature of the offense either.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=347811&paper=88&cat=104

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: parentwtw ()
Date: January 28, 2011 12:30PM

Someone needs to take a close look at WTW HS practices more closely. I hear that their expulsion rate is the highest in teh county. Anyone else know about this?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: some data ()
Date: January 28, 2011 01:43PM

Actual expulsions are rare. Those are reserved for the severe cases and the expulsion is often required by law. These required expulsions come from The Gun Free Schools Act or whatever-legislation that arose as a result of Columbine.

In FCPS there were only 5 expulsions in 2209-10 as reported to DOE. They are as follows:

Bryant 2
Lee 1
South Lakes 1
West Pot 1

The catagory more commonly used is modified expulsion to suspension. This is the gray area where FCPS acts like The Gestapo. They know the offense aren't serious enough for expulsion, as they would never withstand a court challenge, so they basically throw it on as a threat just to keep the parents at bay.

In FCPS there were 232 modified expulsions. Too many to list by school, but here are a few for comparison:

Woodson 4
Lee 4
Westfield 4
Lake Braddock 4
West Springfield 3
McLean 12
Marshall 8
Langley 3
West Pot 13
Stuart 10
South Lakes 9
Robinson 17
Mt Vernon 7
Oakton 10

The $64,000 question is are the punishments at School A the same as School B?

Answer: No.

Principals get lots of discretion. So, if the PTA President's kid screws up he gets a 3 day suspension, while the kid nobody likes who is obnoxious gets the book thrown at them.

It varies greatly from school to school which is in violation of the law. Schools can't act in an arbitrary and capricious manner. In FCPS they do it all the time.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: January 28, 2011 02:10PM

Useful data...thank you. Where did you find it?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: very arbitrary ()
Date: January 28, 2011 03:30PM

Woodson had 4 modified expulsions in 09/10, but here are the stats on school safety from that year:

Offense Category
Weapons Offenses 1
Offenses Against Student 4
Offenses Against Staff 4
Other Offenses Against Persons 31
Alcohol, Tobacco, and OtherDrug Offenses 22
Property Offenses 5
Disorderly or Disruptive Behavior Offenses 47
Technology Offenses 0
All Other Offenses 2

https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/

So 116 reportable offenses, but only 4 modified expulsions? I'm not in favor of ZT at all, and these numbers just seem to confirm that there is a real abuse of discretion in the FCPS displinary system. There were 22 drug offenses - I thought that was an immediate transfer. So some large percentage of kids caught with drugs are obviously NOT expelled? Do they just ramdomly pick every couple months someone to expell to make sure the kids have an 'example'?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: justice department anyone? ()
Date: January 28, 2011 04:16PM

If you compare FRM percentages with suspensions there is a direct link:

Langley/1.3% FRM/2.5% suspensions
McLean/8.7% FRM/2.4% suspensions

Mt Vernon/41% FRM/37.6% suspensions
Annandale/46% FRM/13.7% suspensions

NO SCHOOL should have a suspension rate of 37%. That is absurd.

Mt Vernon has a Black principal so she gets a free pass. They should FIRE her. She has no control of her school, the scores SUCK and she is wasting taxpayer money by sending her students home for 10-30 day suspensions.

I'd like to know where all these Mt Vernon kids are reassigned to? WestPot?
That is a lot of kids to place and pay for transportation to another school.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: question? ()
Date: January 28, 2011 05:33PM

I am confused by the long-term suspension figure on The VA DOE website.

Long term is defined as more than 10 days, correct?

So why does FCPS only report 203 ;ong term suspensions?

No way is that correct.

FCPS recommends nearly 1000 kids for expulsion every year. How does that translate to 203?

Looks like we have a reporting problem.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 28, 2011 08:46PM

Pot is Bad,

Any argument that is grounded in the stipulation that "I don't want my kids around..." is too slippery a slope to explore. Suffice it to say that this or any school system is not here to accommodate every parent's individual wants, wishes, and whims.

The argument that school transfers are effective and desirable because they will "bust up the drug cliques" doesn't hold water either. It assumes a static condition, i.e., a group which is unreplicated and whose membership is fixed. Transferring one offender to another school will do what, make the remaining clique members reform? Hardly. If anything it would cause creation of a new "drug clique" in a new school, along with the continuance of the original one. Recruitment would actually increase, which is presumable why you don't want these kind of people around your kid in the first place. We might refer to this as the "Reefer Madness Effect".

Seriously though, while I've not advocating that school kids be allowed to use controlled substances, and I am not a user myself, I fail to understand this puritanical fixation with keeping marijuana illegal. I've stayed in the Netherlands, where it's personal use is ignored (contrary to popular belief, the Dutch have not actually made marijuana legal), and it is far from a degenerate society. People go to work and school, parents look after their kids, kids play sports, just like everywhere else. Its a modern, family oriented country where marijuana usage is imperceptible except in cafes in the big cities. We waste a ton of resources that could be devoted to education and other needs enforcing a law created for political and economic reasons, not medical ones.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: January 28, 2011 10:05PM

idontknow,

The point is not how many times a kid "breaks the law", or if the parents themselves believe their child enough to "tell their story"; it's whether the "punishment" fits the "crime". Education is about instruction, not law enforcement, so it's hard to see how punishments such as suspension align with the mission statement, so to speak.

Frankly, I see little justification for the school system to take any action at all on matters obtaining from actual laws. Using marijuana and other controlled substances is a matter for the police and the courts, which are operated by people trained and experienced in the law. Schools are about teaching, and are staffed by people trained and experienced in the various areas of knowledge needed to function in a complex, modern society. If a student breaks a law, the police should be called. The school has no rationale for further intervention. Right now, what we have is a situation strikingly close to double jeopardy.

As to more quotidian infractions, such as insubordination, the principal should be free to handle matters in a fair and judicious manner, which includes penalties for repeatedly bad behavior. If my kid breaks a family rule, I explain to him why he is not allowed to do that. If he breaks it again, I take away his XBox privileges for two weeks. If he does it again, I ground him for three. "Punishment" is leveled to cause discomfort, and enforce the societal rule that bad actions have bad consequences. Ultimately, he is learning to value and follow rules, an important skill in our law-based society, without experiencing true pain and lasting harm. I certainly don't appropriately convey that message when I throw him out of the house and say "come back in 10 days".

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: adversity ()
Date: February 01, 2011 12:18AM

my thoughts and prayers go out to the stubans. I hope everyone can take a step back and look at the big picture. we are talking about KIDS. look at cases individually and take the neccessary steps to change what needs to be changed inregards to the mistakes the kids make and how they are punished. blame does not help, change does help. we cannot change what has happened, but we can move forward, i believe thats what nick would want. Please stop with the questions about what happened to nick or how it happend or why. does anyone realize the stubans can read this?? have some respect. its sad it takes all of us to get involved to make change, but if that what it takes I will do it. I have 3 girls in ffx county school system, and this scares me to no end. every situation is different, but I could be in the same shoes of the stubans. I am involved with my kids and then out of the blue this happens. Its truly unbelievable. I hope everyone learns to communicate and tell your kids you love them and be involved, yet adversity can strike anyone in any fashion and lets hope and pray we can prevent anymore kids being pushed to do the unthinkable. i dont believe the school system is totally to blame, they have rules to follow, but it would be nice for one of them to stand up for what is right and voice an opinion in what needs to be changed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Get rid of Yost ()
Date: February 01, 2011 09:23AM

really, why is Yost still there. Give him a rubber room job.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: not my kids ()
Date: February 01, 2011 11:16PM

To justice department anyone?

There is a correlation between FRM, a measure of poverty, and suspensions. There is also a correlation between percentage of minorities and suspensions. These correlations have been found in studies of other school systems (university of Kentucky specifically). It does not mean causation. Nor is it a statement on FCPS. It is a statement on our society as a whole.

I am fortunate enough to be able to send my kids to private school for now, although they are only in elementary school. They are sheltered from the abuses of "the system" and I plan to keep it that way for as long as possible.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Joey D ()
Date: February 02, 2011 12:26PM

I agree. Fire Yost.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: URnotrealistic ()
Date: February 03, 2011 02:56PM

If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime. FCPS has evolved into what it is over many years. Blame the lawyers, parents, students, teachers, administrators, and citizens of Ffx Co. for whatever you want. The school system serves its purpose, better than most. Did anyone consider that Nick succeeded on his 2nd attempt; he was in Dominion Hospital over the holidays for the 1st attempt. Oooppps, now we can blame the parents and the Ffx Co. mental health system as well.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: February 03, 2011 03:12PM

URnotrealistic, it must have been a real thrill for you to disclose that info. Happy now?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 03, 2011 07:26PM

There are many other options before expulsion. In school, after school or weekend detention, suspension, the list goes on.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Ry ()
Date: February 03, 2011 09:52PM

It was perfectly predictable that some grotesque FCPS hearing officer would spew the hateful and false claim the the Stuban boy had tried suicide previously. Classic propaganda tactic and very true to FCPS form. They truly are a hateful lot.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fairfax student ()
Date: February 07, 2011 07:00PM

I can not believe it's been that ... I met him on his first day at FHS seemed super nice and I'm sorry that it happened but I hope to be happy where this .... and find the peace he needed ..

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Kids will be kids ()
Date: February 07, 2011 07:20PM

I feel bad for kids today. One minor offense and your out. No common sense just a zero tolerance policy put into place by the FCSS. I can think of many other ways we can handle teenagers. They are NOT adults. We need to rethink what we are doing to our youth.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: secondchances ()
Date: February 07, 2011 08:16PM

Zero tolerance makes no sense. It takes any discretion out of the hands of the people directly working with our youth. If we can't trust them to handle these situations based on the details of the case, then we can't trust them to educate our youth, period. QED

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Nick's friend ()
Date: February 08, 2011 02:05PM

I don't understand why most of these posts on this site are screaming hateful words at each other, when this whole site is supposed to post our sorrows and respect for Nick's family and friends. Please respect him, and everyone who was close to him. Shouting insults and words of DISRESPECT for Mr. Yost and the school board isn't for this site. Take it somewhere else...

Nick was such a gentle giant, he'd always go out of his way to give people hugs in school. I remember we were in the library and Nick would come up to me and my friends and hug every single one of us. Even my friends who didn't know him that well. That's how I will remember him for the rest of my life. A caring person. Rest in peace Nick :( until then

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: monkeys can do it ()
Date: February 08, 2011 10:50PM


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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Time to Take out the Trash ()
Date: February 08, 2011 10:57PM

parents are afraid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason FCPS is able to get away with their
> bullying behavior is becasue most parents are
> afraid to stand up to the.
>
> I hear it all the time....."I don't want them
> taking it out on my kid". Its not just parents
> either, most employees are afraid for their jobs
> if they dare criticize something that FCPS is
> doing wrong.
>
> I can cite dozens of examples. In many cases,
> FCPS puts a gag order in place for employees.
>
> Did anyone notice how we didn't hear one peep from
> the staff at Clifton? Why wouldn't staff want
> their school "saved"? Of course they do. FCS
> told them to not speak out. They were silenced.
>
> It is a pathetic school district where employees
> and parents are intimidated into silence.
>
> Someone needs to be brave here.


Agreed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 09, 2011 12:39AM

While the School Board callously voted down Tina Hone's budget amendments to examine the FCPS discipline system, the BOS unanimously adopted the attached board matter to address the problems that are obvious to the BOS which the SB despeerately wants to ignore.
Attachments:
ZeroToleranceBoardMatter.pdf

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Ralph ()
Date: February 09, 2011 01:08AM

What a stinging rebuke to the school board, and more specifically, to that Gestapo which masquerades as the "Hearings Office". No doubt , however, that the SB will dig in, get ugly, and fiercely resist doing the decent thing.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: just wait ()
Date: February 10, 2011 08:07AM

If you think the SB has been disfunctional to this point, just wait til you see how they behave now that the BOS is sticking their nose into school business. There's no word strong enough to describe what the SB reaction to that will be.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: get a grip ()
Date: February 10, 2011 11:58AM

Kids will be kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel bad for kids today. One minor offense and
> your out. No common sense just a zero tolerance
> policy put into place by the FCSS. I can think of
> many other ways we can handle teenagers. They are
> NOT adults. We need to rethink what we are doing
> to our youth.


What do you mean out? They get transferred to another school. The only adults , if there are any on here posting, that rant and rave about this are those whose kids run their home.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Get a grip ()
Date: February 10, 2011 01:53PM

Look, the only adults here who bitch and whine about the complaints against the school system's discipline policies are the gutless, spineless, ignorant, boot-licking FCPS groupies whose kids run their homes.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2011 07:59AM

get a grip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do you mean out? They get transferred to another school. The only adults , if there are any on here posting, that rant and rave about this are those whose kids run their home.<


DON'T FEED THE TROLLS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 08:00AM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2011 08:01AM

Get a grip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look, the only adults here who bitch and whine about the complaints against the school system's discipline policies are the gutless, spineless, ignorant, boot-licking FCPS groupies whose kids run their homes.<


DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas Moore ()
Date: February 11, 2011 08:27AM

Do not feed the Thomas More trolls!!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: dd ()
Date: February 11, 2011 09:41AM

Mr. Yost was an adult in Nick's life who knew Nick was struggling.
Mr. Yost's job was to act like an adult.

Mr. Yost did not "just do his job". He failed in his basic role as a human being and his role as an adult in a child's life.

He used the system to dumb down his responsibility.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: cowards ()
Date: February 11, 2011 09:56AM

I agree completely about Yost taking some responsibility.

These principals always say, the SR&R requires us to recommend expulsion. I believe the language is "may" which means discretion can be used.

Maybe not for a drug offense-even though Nick apparently did not possess an illegal drug-somehow lost on FCPS.

The principals do make recommendations for expulsion for trivial offenses-vandalism and such.

No kid should miss 2-6 weeks of school for minor offenses and the taxpayers should not be asked to foot the $2 million bill for these unnecessary hearings and transportation costs to other schools.

You guys wonder why your school doesn't have all day K or FLES-$2 million goes a long way for some programs.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: shall ()
Date: February 11, 2011 11:04AM

Read the SR&R booklet. There are several behaviors (e.g., being a gun to school and and selling drugs on school property) for which the principal SHALL (not "may) recommend expulsion.

The Board of Sups is doing the right thing. Serious misbehavior by a child that mandates transfer to another school should also get the attention of the county's social services.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: lost honor ()
Date: February 11, 2011 11:13AM

We used to have in this country a thing called honor. When someone failed miserably, their sense of honor and society's demand for honorable behaviour meant they would resign their position of trust. Not anymore.

Here in FCPS, we have this principal and everything that went on with this case, and another that is involved in a major real estate fraud.

Do they have no sense of shame or responsibility? Is there nothing they can do short of a felony conviction that will cost them their job?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Mantua Mom ()
Date: February 11, 2011 01:38PM

The video tribute played at Nick's memorial service is posted on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ja1J6B70PE

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 11, 2011 09:59PM

cowards Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The principals do make recommendations for expulsion for trivial offenses-vandalism and such.<

Principals are told what to recommend by the now departed Grattan and Scanlan the sadist of the Appeals Office.

That's why 100% of the recommendations are upheld on appeal; the appeals office is reviewing their own recommendation. It's a scam.

Dale needs to go and take Scanlan with him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 10:00PM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: get a grip supporter ()
Date: February 12, 2011 03:50PM

get a grip is not a troll, he/she's entitled to his opinion as well as anyone else. its not mr. yost's fault, and its most likely that nick's death was NOT related to his expulsion. everyone needs to stop playing the blame game and relax.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: another Mantua mom ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:43AM

To Nick's parents Steve and Sandy,
I send my Congratulations for the courage to go public with the story of your family's journey (Front page, Sunday Washington Post) and to include personal photographs for the story. It must have been really difficult to do all that, but know that we admire you for it. How I wish that Nick was still with us all! It is hard to imagine any mother reading to the end of that story without dissolving into tears like I did.
With much love,
another Mantua mom.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:46AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/19/AR2011021904528.html?hpid=topnews

How many more FCPS kids have to die before we get rid of this counterproductive disciplinary system and the people who advocate for it?

When will the deniers get it?

How long will it take for anyone from FCPS to offer their condolences to the Stubin family?

The Anderson family is still waiting 22 months later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2011 09:04AM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 09:28AM

This article makes the disciplinary action seem appropriate.

Taking experimental drugs that you don't know what the side effects are is not the behavior of a normal, "good" kid.

Its some pretty f'ed up stuff. And the kid went home and researched it, so its seems like a pretty deliberate action.

Buying it at school means the school has turned into a distribution center for drugs. Other parents have the right to send their kids to a school which is not a distribution center for drugs.

And people that say that just because its not "technically" illegal that its not worse are part of the problem.

If you dont think these things--marijauna. . .--are that big of a deal, that's your option, its a free country. But dont force my kids to be exposed to influences and behaviors which i consider a very big deal, especially for the sake of someone's participation in school sports.

Better the sports be cancelled--make the school about education only if you are going to force everyone to go

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:19AM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Could you be any more heartless and cruel?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:29AM

While tragic, I think that the best you can say is the outcome as a result of his poor decision making was a contributing factor in Nick's suicide and not a causal one. That does not excuse the process that FCPS uses, but let's be honest here - no one with such a bright future and the type of support system Nick had access to should go from despair to suicide in 60 days. As difficult as the transition might have been, he was 16 and a bright kid with a lot of potential and there was an opportunity to learn from the mistake, grow as a person and overcome this short-term adversity. Frankly, I would have thought that his mother's perseverace through her condition, ALS, would be an inspiration and give him a reason to fight on.

With that said, if parents are so concerned and convined that there is blood on FCPS'hands then why haven't we seen a wrongful death suit filed against them? Surely there must be lawyers around here who would take on this case if it was so clearly cut and dried. Given that the discipline process, and with it the SR&R, affects every student, where is the grassroots movement similar to FLAGS, SLEEP and FAIRGRADE with petitions, websites, and parents and with children attending SB meetings in brightly-colored T-shirts with catchy slogans?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:58AM

Thomas More,
I think you are looking at this only from the perspective of the punishment to the child. In which case i can see why this is upsetting. Even more so if you think the punishment basically led to the suicide. It probably seems like a death sentence.

But i'm not looking at it that way.

i'm looking at it from the perspective of what else can you do to deal with the problem?

Again, other parents have a right that their kids not be exposed to this kind of stuff.

Clearly some people think some of this behavior is not that bad, and so aren't going to do anything about their kids engaging in it.

But should my kids suffer and be endangered because of that? I mean at some point on this pathway down "experimentation" someone can reach the point where they do something that should be considered criminal. Maybe not this kid, but certainly some kids meet that definition.

So the compromise is, well if the school is involved, then your out, to establish a big red line between where one kids' experimentation and growing maturity and another kids' right not to be endangered divide off.

If there isn't "zero tolerance" for at least some things, then every parent, perhaps legitimately so, will plead for this case requiring special treatment.

But that just wont work for lots of things.

For example, I can bet there are many "good" kids out there who deal a little drugs on the side. They are probably not hard core criminals, and many probably have many other good qualities.

But we just cant have them in school dealing for the many dangers involved. And so because all parents will plead for their kid for a second chance, in order to avoid the other dangers, we have big signs around schools saying "Drug Free Zone"

How far down does that line go? Sure that's a point of debate. Maybe fighting in school is on the other side of that line. Maybe bullying is something different. But what's being argued about, then, is just where the line goes, not that there shouldn't be a line.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:02AM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

It's all about you

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:06AM

No, its about the hundreds of thousands of other kids in the system, who deserve protection.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:13AM

RiddleMeThis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While tragic, I think that the best you can say is the outcome as a result of his poor decision making was a contributing factor in Nick's suicide and not a causal one.<

That is all anyone has said but which is what Dale and his enablers on the SB deny.

> That does not excuse the process that FCPS uses, but let's be honest here - no one with such a bright future and the type of support system Nick had access to should go from despair to suicide in 60 days.<

Actually, research tells us it can happen in less than 5 days among teenagers, especially boys.

> As difficult as the transition might have been, he was 16 and a bright kid with a lot of potential and there was an opportunity to learn from the mistake, grow as a person and overcome this short-term adversity. Frankly, I would have thought that his mother's perseverace through her condition, ALS, would be an inspiration and give him a reason to fight on.<

It appears her example was a burden that Nick felt he wasn't living up to. Josh Anderson wrote about being a disappointment to his parents.

> With that said, if parents are so concerned and convined that there is blood on FCPS'hands then why haven't we seen a wrongful death suit filed against them? Surely there must be lawyers around here who would take on this case if it was so clearly cut and dried.<

It's called sovereign immunity.

> Given that the discipline process, and with it the SR&R, affects every student, where is the grassroots movement similar to FLAGS, SLEEP and FAIRGRADE with petitions, websites, and parents and with children attending SB meetings in brightly-colored T-shirts with catchy slogans?<

There is a grass roots organization its called Zero Tolerance Reform: ZTR.org.

You want to help or just make snarky comments on a blog?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: need compassion ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:15AM

Frankly, I don't think the family will be consoled by a "wrongful death lawsuit". I think these are incredible people who have already been dragged through things which most of us cannot even imagine.

To those of you who think that you know what is normal and abnormal, good or bad, I just want to say that you are not God.

Nick was, by all accounts, a fine young man who needed help and needed support. Yes, we have drugs and drug problems in our schools.

Why did Nick have to leave his school? Doubtless, it was because of a set of strict rules that do not allow evidence and common sense to be part of the process. Then, what is the "hearing" for? It's to make it look like there is a fair process. Let's all learn something here and put common sense back into our dealings with students. I think that is what the Stuban family wants. I have nothing but respect for the Stuban family. I am so sorry for your loss and I cannot imagine it. I have an only son who is a sophomore in high school right now. His world revolves around his friends. I cannot even begin to imagine your pain.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:22AM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, its about the hundreds of thousands of other kids in the system, who deserve protection.<

From administrators more interested in destroying their lives than helping them mature and grow.

30% of FCPS high school kids admit doing drugs. Your precious one probably has a best friend who's using. There's another in the seat next to them or in front or behind them.

Some of these kids got suspended because they had a birth control pill in their purse.

Or the deceased granddad's keepsake penknife clipped to a backpack.

Everybody else's kid is a threat to your kid, right? They all must be destroyed to protect your kid.

God help you if your kid ever gets caught in this grinder.

Like the girls on the high school field hockey team when one teammate, one, showed up to football game drunk.

The whole team was made to take a breathalyzer. Even girls not sitting next to the drunk.

But your perfect child must be protected no matter the destruction visited on other lives.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:29AM

Drugs are Bad,

First off, are you by chance a troll? You are aware of the "South Park" parody of ineffective leadership and slavish adherence to policy that encapsulated in the statement "Drugs are bad", followed by "mmmmOkay". If so, and you want to play devil's advocate, fair enough. If not, then your moniker rather unfortunately undermines your cause.

That being said, I’m curious about your statements “Again, other parents have a right that their kids not be exposed to this kind of stuff”, and “…its about the hundreds of thousands of other kids in the system, who deserve protection” (FCPS has, I believe, about 130,000 students). Are you suggesting that the ones needing protection have such poor parenting that they are unable to resist the enticement of illegal behavior when they see it?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:35AM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a grass roots organization its called
> Zero Tolerance Reform: ZTR.org.

I'll take your word that they are out there, but you can't swing a dead cat without seeing a car magnet for FLAGS or a news story (when it was relevant) about SLEEP and FAIRGRADE. ZTR on the other hand...crickets!

> You want to help or just make snarky comments on a
> blog?


What's wrong with being snarky? ;)


While Josh Anderson and Nick Stuban are extreme cases, it seems like people are upset with the overall discipline process on many levels. If so, why don't we see the school board addressing this or an effort to elect members who will be more sympathetic to this issue?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:49AM

Professor,
Thanks for the argumentative fallacies.

First of all, the argument against simply throwing the malefactors out wholesale, is that they are kids, and kids make bad decisions, and need to be taught to make better ones.

But when someone says, "well, as part of teaching my kid, I'm going to limit his or her exposure to bad influences" that person is a bad parent who's bad parenting has resulted in children too susceptible to bad influences.

See how you contradict yourself?

But you utterly bypass the original point--that there is a line somewhere, the debate is just about where the line is. As many point out, teenagers can legally have guns, its just we don't want them at schools.

Or rather, some might not care, some actively don't want them around, and the compromise is no guns at school.

Drugs are obviously a similar issue. Everyone probably things Heroin dealers should be expelled. What about other drugs?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:58AM

RiddleMeThis Wrote:


>
> While Josh Anderson and Nick Stuban are extreme
> why don't we see the school board addressing this
> or an effort to elect members who will be more
> sympathetic to this issue?

I believe an unusually high number of School Board members have indicated that they will not stand for re-election, and to the best of my knowledge, none are planning to "upgrade" to a Supervisor position. Their gross mismanagement, lack of oversight, and rubber stamping of the incompetence of the current FCPS administration has caught up with them. Any member whose been on the board for more than one election cycle is culpable. They haven't been addressing this issue (indeed they've been in active denial) because they are its root cause. As to the importance of this issue with respect to Fall elections, I believe that you will see candidates stress it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: kidding--right? ()
Date: February 20, 2011 11:59AM

Drugs are bad wrote:

"Or rather, some might not care, some actively don't want them around, and the compromise is no guns at school.

Drugs are obviously a similar issue. Everyone probably things Heroin dealers should be expelled. What about other drugs?"


False analogy: Guns are not the same as drugs.



Drugs are bad wrote:

"But when someone says, "well, as part of teaching my kid, I'm going to limit his or her exposure to bad influences" that person is a bad parent who's bad parenting has resulted in children too susceptible to bad influences.

See how you contradict yourself?"



Huh??? Please rephrase this using English.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 12:50PM

RiddleMeThis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll take your word that they are out there, but you can't swing a dead cat without seeing a car magnet for FLAGS or a news story (when it was relevant) about SLEEP and FAIRGRADE. ZTR on the other hand...crickets!<

What is it with you and dead cats? Each of your posts has "swinging a dead cat."

The failings of the FCPS discipline system have been the subject of numerous stories in local papers. How do you think they got there?

Tina Hone, School Board member, tried to get several motions included in this years budget to address the FCPS discipline systems failings. Did those motions just fall from the sky?

Cathy Hudgins got a unanimous Board of Supervisors to examine the issue. She dreamed that up exclusively on her own, too?

That's not crickets you hear. It the sound of your own blood course through your skull because you've got your fingers in your ears.

> What's wrong with being snarky? ;)

Because two beautiful young men are lost to their family, friends, their community, our Commonwealth and our country, forever. I pray they are the last.

Even more kids never finish high school after experiencing the tender mercies of the FCPS discipline system. Never mind those broken in spirit, depressed, isolated and dealing with the humiliation imposed by this system for no good purpose.

> While Josh Anderson and Nick Stuban are extreme cases, it seems like people are upset with the overall discipline process on many levels. If so, why don't we see the school board addressing this or an effort to elect members who will be more sympathetic to this issue?<

Tina Hone's motions lost by 7-5 and 8-4. Most of those that voted against those motions are not seeking re-election. Allah be praised.

The BOS motion on the issue passed unanimously. All hope is not lost.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Taxpayer ()
Date: February 20, 2011 12:51PM

Dale and co.:

We pay for education, the buildings, and the roads to get there. We don't pay for hearing officers and administrators to gang up on students. Mom and Dad can take care of the punishment, and if not, that's where the community steps in to respond with isolation, ostracizing, burning at the stake, etc. We have a good record on that, the schools do not.

We do not pay "the help" to play judge and jury of our children. Especially while we pay Central Office Staff six figure salaries (throw in the car to drive to the NON-SCHOOL facility) to cook the books and ignore public calls and subpoenas for meeting minutes.

Adding insult to injury, the M.O. is plain rude. Intimidation (bullying) kids into desired results, while the few good teachers, parents, and staff who remain active in the SCHOOL-BASED world walk around on eggshells. The public outreach is a nice touch, we common folk don't understand grief and loss until our money is used to counsel us by an outsider (as you deem appropriate and necessary).

Get a real job. At the very least, it will reduce traffic around all the offices you call facilities, and relieve future boundary studies.

And no, I do not live or go to Clifton, my children have zero drug experience thus far, have not been suspended, etc. Just sick and tired of being sick and tired.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 01:35PM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:

My comments are interspersed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Professor,
> Thanks for the argumentative fallacies.

Huh? Do you mean rhetorical fallacies? Fallacies cannot be described as "argumentative" as they are abstractions, not concrete beings that can engage in debate.

>
> First of all, the argument against simply throwing
> the malefactors out wholesale, is that they are
> kids, and kids make bad decisions, and need to be
> taught to make better ones.
>

Parse this statement, carefully. If this is your intent, it does not support what I take to be your position, which is something along the lines of: "rules are rules, rules protect 'good' kids from the 'bad' kids, and if the rules state that the rule breaker should be removed from the school, that is right and just". Stripped of its strained construction, it actually says "the argument against throwing 'bad' kids out is that they are still kids, they have made bad decisions, and we should use the disciplinary process to teach them the error of their ways". And you DON'T agree with this?


> But when someone says, "well, as part of teaching
> my kid, I'm going to limit his or her exposure to
> bad influences" that person is a bad parent who's
> bad parenting has resulted in children too
> susceptible to bad influences.
>
> See how you contradict yourself?

No, I don't contradict myself at all. You misconstrue the first statement and concoct the second. The two are not addressing the same point.

Lets look at this another way. Suppose there are two Parents, A and B. Parent A teaches her kids illegal drug usage is bad, period; but she drinks too much, and while having high expectations for her offspring, she doesn't spend much time with them. Parent B teaches her kids that rules are for societal benefit and that illegal drug usage is accordingly not condoned. She works a schedule that gets her home at the end of the school day, and she makes time for the kids first. One day, the daughters of each parent are caught behind the school with the self-described "cool kids" who are doing drugs by the school's Asst. Principal. There is no suggestion that either girl was herself using drugs.

Parent A calls the Principal and the Police, demanding action be taken against the "kids out back" so that their attempts to lead her child astray are thwarted. She tells here daughter that the school needs to put someone out there 24/7 so that this doesn't happen again. Parent B congratulates her child and takes pride in the fact that their relationship has enabled the girl to internalize the lessons her parents teach her by word and deed. She calls the Asst. Principal and thanks him for seeing the situation for what it was.

Hopefully, we would all like to be Parent B, because the values she imparts will endure, even in the shakiest of moments. Parent A, though she believes she is a good parent, is trying to erect unsustainable barriers to protect her daughter, while not actually taking the time to show and tell her the skills she will need to protect herself.

>
> But you utterly bypass the original point--that
> there is a line somewhere, the debate is just
> about where the line is. As many point out,
> teenagers can legally have guns, its just we don't
> want them at schools.

Why would I challenge a statement that is true. There is indeed a line somewhere that delineates tolerable vs intolerable behavior. We don't have to go looking for it, however, its already drawn. We call it the law.

>
> Or rather, some might not care, some actively
> don't want them around, and the compromise is no
> guns at school.
>

Since you spoke earlier of fallacies, I should point out that this reasoning commits the fallacy of weak analogy. Guns and drugs are entirely two different entities, regardless of your personal feelings. Guns are instruments of killing, and are used actively. Drugs are a number of things, an escape, a means of acquiring acceptance, and so on; and while their use may result in death, it is passive. If someone points a gun at me and fires, I have no choice about the consequence. But if someone offers me drugs, I do. Repeatedly.

> Drugs are obviously a similar issue. Everyone
> probably things Heroin dealers should be expelled.
> What about other drugs?

Obviously then, they are not. I don't think Heroin dealers should be expelled, per se. I think the school should leave law enforcement up to the police and the courts. Selling controlled substances is a crime in our society. It doesn't matter where. If a judge orders a dealer removed from school and put in alternative schooling, I would agree with it, because it was a decision made in a larger context. Principals don't have badges. Their disciplinary actions should concern matters between minors such as fights, non-criminal disruptive behavior, and the like. And here the "worst" punishment they should be able to give out would be school supported counseling. This would be far, far less expensive than the path of suspension to expulsion to prison for yet another undereducated member of society.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Washington Post ,only good for the hamster cage ()
Date: February 20, 2011 01:53PM

Thanks goodness my kid finishes this year.If doing away with sanctions for drug possession happens , it will be as successful as doing away with having penalties for bad attendence.Have an ambulance standing by in the school parking lots to handle overdoses.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ZT_Sucks ()
Date: February 20, 2011 02:12PM

How do we get the Tea Party involved with this? They seem to know how to make change happen.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 02:20PM

Professor,
Number 1, what the hell is a "rhetorical fallacy"?

There are logical fallacies, and I would say argumentative ones (where an argument leads to contraries, which philosophers generally describe as the primary method of discrediting others arguments--by showing they lead to contraries) but since rhetoric is the art of persuasion, how could it be fallacious.

Something either is or isn't persuasive. True is a different matter.

I'm just going to completely pass over your very vividly rendered hypothetical. We'll, I'll make one comment which should be self evident--any solution to the problem of your kid bringing drugs to school which consists in telling me how to parent is a non-starter.

As to the rest, what I cited was not an analogy, it is a continuum. First a continuum of illegal drugs. And then a contiuum of behavior legally proscribed from school properties.

Therefore, NECESSARILY school officials must concern themselves with interdicting illegal behavior on school property since some behaviors are defined as illegal specifically because they are occuring on school property (ie. having guns on campus.)

Guns are legal, but not on campus, so your intire dichotomy between disciplinary and legal enforcement is fallacious. The school must enforce that law since it doesn't obtain anywhere else.

Moreover, since you are legally required to send your kids to school, the state must ensure that your rights as a parent, and the rights of the children are protected in that environment. That's why the govt. can step in and say guns, which are legal everywhere else pretty much, are not legal here.

As the article above points out, that's why the State of Virginia mandates the type of action people here blame on the school system. So your problem is with the law and the political process, rather than all these claims of usurpation and lack of due process.

And that's how it should be. I think heroin dealers should be expelled, per se. We disagree, and in this country when we disagree, instead of me beating you up so I don't have to hear your nonsense, we vote, form political parties. . . . What I'm saying there is that we are at an impasse--we have fundamentally irreconcileable positions that we must present to the polity to see which one they find more reasonable.

And I think letting heroin dealers ply their trade in tax-payer funded compulsory educational facilities is not going to get too many votes. Who knows, anymore, though? Maybe people are nowadays so committed to excusing their deviant behavior that they'll let you experiment on their kids rather than acknowledge some simple truths about right and wrong.

We shall see.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 02:29PM

Thomas More,
I like the way you use "precious" sarcastically, when you deride my parental concerns, but when your little St. Reefer Madness has to face the consequences of his actions, its all "precious" this and "poor little immature and susceptible" that.

Have you ever seen "A Man for All Seasons"? I think the line from that play, in the mouth of your namesake is particularly apropos here. To paraphrase, "if you cut down all the laws in your pursuit of the devil, what are you going to do when he turns on you and you have nothing to hide behind"

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TO Just Say No ()
Date: February 20, 2011 02:40PM

Drugs are Bad:

Look what I googled!

http://projects.uwc.utexas.edu/handouts/?q=node/30

Rhetorical Fallacies
Rhetorical fallacies, or fallacies of argument, don’t allow for the open, two-way exchange of ideas upon which meaningful conversations depend. Instead, they distract the reader with various appeals instead of using sound reasoning. They can be divided into three categories:


1.Emotional fallacies unfairly appeal to the audience’s emotions.

2.Ethical fallacies unreasonably advance the writer’s own authority or character.

3.Logical fallacies depend upon faulty logic.


Keep in mind that rhetorical fallacies often overlap.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 02:47PM

to just say no--if you are saying rhetorical fallacies are just things like "begging the question," "straw man" and other ploys which are commonly recognized--what I mean by "argumentative fallacies"--then its just a difference in terms which is no problem.

I just didn't understand the distinction TheProfessor was making between "argumentative" and "rhetorical" fallacies.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 03:13PM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "if you cut down all the laws in your pursuit of the devil, what are you going to do when he turns on you and you have nothing to hide behind"<

So now our kids are devils, Roper?

Of course, you mean everyone else's kids, that is. Not your perfect angel who will never get caught in the maw of this system.

The Lord Chancellor was speaking of adults, of course, in that quote. Not children to whom he was reportedly very indulgent.

Our laws include the Constitutions, its promise of a public education (Virginia's Constitution) and due process and its protection against self incrimination and cruel and unusual punishment. Our laws include the FCPS regulations against a principal questioning a child about a disciplinary matter until after the parents have been notified. Our laws include the right to counsel which FCPS actively discourages. Our laws also allow a person to record any proceeding against them. FCPS doesn't.

Our laws regarding juveniles takes into some account the limitations on their ability to exercise self control and judgment. Shall we ignore those too like, just like FCPS.

Shall we only pay attention to the "laws" that keep your child in a cocoon against all unpleasantness in the world.

It seems the ones "cutting down all of the laws" is FCPS and the other defenders of the current disciplinary system. Are you to be counted among them?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: T. Payne ()
Date: February 20, 2011 03:33PM

I think you better reread some documents, the Constitution doesnt apply to some of the items you are addressing. Wrong information is dangerous information.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:12PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With that said, if parents are so concerned and
> convined that there is blood on FCPS'hands then
> why haven't we seen a wrongful death suit filed
> against them? Surely there must be lawyers around
> here who would take on this case if it was so
> clearly cut and dried.

It's called sovereign immunity.

As I am not a lawyer, can you explain what this means? Don't parents sue FCPS on a regular basis for things like access to services?

In the future I promise to refrain from making any references to dead cats, but I reserve my right to be snarky.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:14PM

another Mantua mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To Nick's parents Steve and Sandy,
> I send my Congratulations for the courage to go
> public with the story of your family's journey
> (Front page, Sunday Washington Post) and to
> include personal photographs for the story. It
> must have been really difficult to do all that,
> but know that we admire you for it. How I wish
> that Nick was still with us all! It is hard to
> imagine any mother reading to the end of that
> story without dissolving into tears like I did.
> With much love,
> another Mantua mom.


+1

Hope some good comes from it. Dana Scanlan must be heartless.

-------------------------------------------------
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:19PM

T. Payne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you better reread some documents, the Constitution doesnt apply to some of the items you are addressing. Wrong information is dangerous information.<

And a troll wastes everybody's time. Read the post again.

Va. Costitution provides a right to a public education. US & VA Constitutions cover due process, the right against self incrimination and cruel and unusual punishment.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:20PM

RiddleMeThis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's called sovereign immunity.
>
> As I am not a lawyer, can you explain what this means? Don't parents sue FCPS on a regular basis for things like access to services?<

goggle the phrase or look it up on Wikipedia

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:24PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RiddleMeThis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > It's called sovereign immunity.
> >
> > As I am not a lawyer, can you explain what this
> means? Don't parents sue FCPS on a regular basis
> for things like access to services?<
>
> goggle the phrase or look it up on Wikipedia


Awww....but you seem so smart and I thought that you could explain what it means in laymans terms. How do find this google you speak of?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:31PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RiddleMeThis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > It's called sovereign immunity.
> >
> > As I am not a lawyer, can you explain what this
> means? Don't parents sue FCPS on a regular basis
> for things like access to services?<
>
> goggle the phrase or look it up on Wikipedia


OK, so I found the google, but it seems to refer to Federal court and government agencies. Can FCPS say "sorry, we have soverign immunity...bugger off now", or does it come from somewhere? Are they liable if a student is injured as a result of a poorly maintained facility? What about an employee suing for employment discrimination? The boundaries seem rather vague.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:45PM

Thomas More,
I think the "laws" in this case would be the procedures and policies preventing the dysfunctional, whether temporarily or more profoundly, from turning the schools into dangerous areas.

And on St. Thomas' indulgence, he was an avid burner of heretics, wasn't he? And saw the persecution of heretics as necessary not only for the preservation of the Faith, but also for the maintenance of public order.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Tell your kids ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:51PM

Tell your kids if they are ever called into the office for any reason that they should not say a word. The school should call a parent if the child is in trouble. Also tell your child not to sign anthing till a parent is present. I do NOT trust FCPS!

I know we should be able to trust the school system but after what I have read I have doubts they give kids a second chance.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: so see where it lands ()
Date: February 20, 2011 04:54PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> T. Payne Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think you better reread some documents, the
> Constitution doesnt apply to some of the items you
> are addressing. Wrong information is dangerous
> information.<
>
> And a troll wastes everybody's time. Read the
> post again.
>
> Va. Costitution provides a right to a public
> education. US & VA Constitutions cover due
> process, the right against self incrimination and
> cruel and unusual punishment.


Yes and a douch bag wastes everybodys time comparing apples to oranges. FCPS does not deny anyone an education, it might not be the location of ones preference but the last I heard everyone can graduate.The right against self incrimination refers to criminal matters which personally I think would be an outstanding idea, do away with administrative bullshit hearings at Gatehouse, immediately notify the police and go staight to obtaining a juvenile petition and go before a judge with all the attorneys you can afford to waste your money on. Be careful what you wish for here. Expensive and long term consequences which involve more than just being transferred to another school. Which leads us to cruel ? and unusual? punishment. Transferring to another school probably is not what the founding fathers had in mind by those terms.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: info on sovereign immunity ()
Date: February 20, 2011 05:03PM

Here is something about sovereign immunity. A very confusing concept indeed.


http://www.vsb.org/docs/valawyermagazine/apr00anthony_mcmahon.pdf

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 05:24PM

so see where it lands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes and a douch bag wastes everybodys time comparing apples to oranges.<

I would be so harsh on yourself. No one called you a douch bag.

> FCPS does not deny anyone an education,

An expelled or suspended student is deprived a public education.

> but the last I heard everyone can graduate.<

We know that many never graduate

> The right against self incrimination refers to criminal matters , , ,

Police officers are present at most of these interrogations which have the potential for criminal prosecution. Thus, the right against self incrimination applies to the questioning of students by principals and SROs.

But you knew that already.

> which personally I think would be an outstanding idea, do away with administrative bullshit hearings at Gatehouse, immediately notify the police and go staight to obtaining a juvenile petition and go before a judge with all the attorneys you can afford to waste your money on.<

Kids actually are better treated in the JDR courts than by FCPS.

> Which leads us to cruel ? and unusual? punishment.<

No JDR judge would denigrate and humiliate these kids the way many principals, SROs and hearing officers do.


Why do you hate kids so much?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Any Lawyers on here? ()
Date: February 20, 2011 05:46PM

I am a good student but I wonder what my rights are as a juvenile? Do I have the right to a phone call to my parents if I am called into the principals office?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FCPS Parent ()
Date: February 20, 2011 06:22PM

It seems the punishment did not fit the mistake. I pray for Mr. and Mrs. Stuban.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 06:40PM

Any Lawyers on here? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a good student but I wonder what my rights are as a juvenile? Do I have the right to a phone call to my parents if I am called into the principals office?<

Yes but they will browbeat you into not calling them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Do students have any rights? ()
Date: February 20, 2011 06:54PM

Do we?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: realization ()
Date: February 20, 2011 07:03PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so see where it lands Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes and a douch bag wastes everybodys time
> comparing apples to oranges.<
>
> I would be so harsh on yourself. No one called
> you a douch bag.
>
> > FCPS does not deny anyone an education,
>
> An expelled or suspended student is deprived a
> public education.
>
> > but the last I heard everyone can graduate.<
>
> We know that many never graduate
>
> > The right against self incrimination refers to
> criminal matters , , ,
>
> Police officers are present at most of these
> interrogations which have the potential for
> criminal prosecution. Thus, the right against
> self incrimination applies to the questioning of
> students by principals and SROs.
>
> But you knew that already.
>
> > which personally I think would be an outstanding
> idea, do away with administrative bullshit
> hearings at Gatehouse, immediately notify the
> police and go staight to obtaining a juvenile
> petition and go before a judge with all the
> attorneys you can afford to waste your money on.<
>
> Kids actually are better treated in the JDR courts
> than by FCPS.
>
> > Which leads us to cruel ? and unusual?
> punishment.<
>
> No JDR judge would denigrate and humiliate these
> kids the way many principals, SROs and hearing
> officers do.
>
>
> Why do you hate kids so much?


Dont hate kids, its called holding people accountable for their actions, by not doing this to juveniles, you are setting then up for failure as the current school setting and overprotective parents are doing now . At 18 its a whole new game. Learn the rules, try to obey the rules, realize there are consequences when you dont and realize they are not the end of the world, there are people to help you work through them, not cover for you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 07:39PM

realization Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont hate kids, its called holding people accountable for their actions, by not doing this to juveniles, you are setting then up for failure as the current school setting and overprotective parents are doing now . At 18 its a whole new game. Learn the rules, try to obey the rules, realize there are consequences when you dont and realize they are not the end of the world, there are people to help you work through them, not cover for you.<

"life's tough better toughen'em up early"

Adolescents are not small adults. A punitive approach will not produce a healthy adult but a fearful, constricted creature.

Your comments reflect a gross misunderstanding of adolescent development, cognitively, emotionally and biologically.

Please stay away from any children before they are permanently warped by your destructive ideology.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TO: realization ()
Date: February 20, 2011 07:41PM

You make no sense. Are your for kids or against? Kids are not adults. That is why we allow them to make mistakes and learn from them.

I think it has been a long time since you were a teen. Being a teen today is hard. We need to support our youth.

Zero tolerance needs to be run over with a fine tooth comb. Our SB is failing our kids.

No more suicides, no more lost kids. We need to find a common ground to help all kids in FCPS. Maybe another lawsuit should be a start.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: RiddleMeThis ()
Date: February 20, 2011 07:59PM

With all the kvetching about the failings of the FCPS disciplinary process I have yet to hear alternative solutions put forward. Can anyone outline a brief plan of how you would change the system to make it more workable and fair? Does it start with simply tossing out major sections of the SR&R which are extreme? Is it simply a question of reforming the hearing and appeal process? How much transparency should there be?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:34PM

Drugs are Bad Wrote:

Sigh. I'm not going to debate actual philosophy with you. You are unarmed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Professor,
> Number 1, what the hell is a "rhetorical
> fallacy"?
>
> There are logical fallacies, and I would say



> As to the rest, what I cited was not an analogy,
> it is a continuum. First a continuum of illegal
> drugs. And then a contiuum of behavior legally
> proscribed from school properties.

Decided to invent our own language, have we?

>
> Therefore, NECESSARILY school officials must
> concern themselves with interdicting illegal
> behavior on school property since some behaviors
> are defined as illegal specifically because they
> are occuring on school property (ie. having guns
> on campus.)

Oh, this is too easy. How does one "concern" oneself "with interdicting illegal behavior"? Watch that use of the thesaurus. Translating your statement back into English (using actual word meanings), what you have said is "Therefore, NECESSARILY school officials must concern themselves with prohibiting illegal behavior on school property..." Yes, they must indeed prohibit illegal activity. I think the point you are trying to make is that school officials must take action against guns on campus because guns are banned by law. What a keen sense of the obvious you have. Where does this go?

>
> Guns are legal, but not on campus, so your intire
> dichotomy between disciplinary and legal
> enforcement is fallacious. The school must enforce
> that law since it doesn't obtain anywhere else.
>

Incorrect use of the words "obtain", "dichotomy", and "fallacious". As they say in Calculus textbooks, "the proof is left as an exercise to the reader". So what you are saying is schools must enforce the ban on guns on campus because that is the only ban on guns in place? Really. Try taking a Glock to the airport, the White House, your local jail or state capitol, and see what sort of reception you receive.

> Moreover, since you are legally required to send
> your kids to school, the state must ensure that
> your rights as a parent, and the rights of the
> children are protected in that environment. That's
> why the govt. can step in and say guns, which are
> legal everywhere else pretty much, are not legal
> here.

The government's ability to interdict (correct use) guns on school property does not obtain (correct use) from the legal requirement that a parent send his/her kid(s) to school. There is no such requirement. A parent is required to provide for the education of his/her children, not "send them to school". Home schooled kids and kids privately tutored don't go to school, at least not in the sense that you are using, which is physical plant. If we allow for your logic, however, then guns are prohibited in the private homes of persons who home school. Is that what you are suggesting?

>
> As the article above points out, that's why the
> State of Virginia mandates the type of action
> people here blame on the school system. So your
> problem is with the law and the political process,
> rather than all these claims of usurpation and
> lack of due process.

You must be doing this deliberately. I believe I have been clear in my support of the law. My "problem" is with school systems placing students in double jeopardy. If behavior is criminal, then bring in the appropriate and duly sworn authorities. If I may hazard a guess, it is almost as if you are afraid to turn these matters over to the police and the courts. Why? Do you think the punishment will somehow be more lenient?

>
> And that's how it should be. I think heroin
> dealers should be expelled, per se. We disagree,
> and in this country when we disagree, instead of
> me beating you up so I don't have to hear your
> nonsense, we vote, form political parties. . . .
> What I'm saying there is that we are at an
> impasse--we have fundamentally irreconcileable
> positions that we must present to the polity to
> see which one they find more reasonable.
>

Fair enough. One point, though. The word "polity" is not a synonym for voters. It refers to a state, a government of a specific geographical area.


> And I think letting heroin dealers ply their trade
> in tax-payer funded compulsory educational
> facilities is not going to get too many votes. Who
> knows, anymore, though? Maybe people are nowadays

Your rhetorical flights of fancy are amusing, but tell me where you got the notion that anyone favored "letting heroin dealers ply their trade in tax-payer funded compulsory educational facilities". This is a textbook example of the Straw man fallacy.



> so committed to excusing their deviant behavior
> that they'll let you experiment on their kids
> rather than acknowledge some simple truths about
> right and wrong.
>

Are you speaking of me personally when you speak of "experimentation" on kids? I'm an engineer, not a social scientist or in the biological sciences. I wouldn't want to fill out the paper work to work with human subjects.

But I'm not about to "acknowledge some simple truths about right and wrong" if these are the truths you are espousing here. You haven't proven your point in a consistent and logical way. Let me give you an unsolicited piece of advice. Tone down the hyperbole and use of "big words". You are not skillful enough in writing. Use short, declarative statements with clear examples, and you might be more convincing. It's perfectly okay to make solid arguments without trying to sound like, well, a college professor.


> We shall see.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:35PM

Montgomery County has adopted a more educational, therapeutic model for most offenses that should be Fairfax's model. So have other leading systems. Punishment is not the object. Learning, growth and maturation are the objectives.

After exploration, drug use is mostly about self-medication to relieve other mental health issues. Get to those issues and get the kid help.

Yes, we don't need a 60 page tome that no one can read or understand with all of its citations to the Va. Code. E.g, "insubordination" is an offense for which suspension is a punishment?! Is this a military organization? Don't we want students who question authority?

Parents must be called before questioning begins. The SRO should not be allowed to be involved if there is not clear and immediate threat to personnel safety. If an SRO is in the room, Miranda warnings must be given and can only be waived by a parent or guardian.

Appeals officers should not be consulted by principals during the imposition of punishment at the school. Appeals officers should never engage in humiliating conduct toward student or parents. Transcripts of the hearing should be provided to all parties.

3000 suspensions and 700 expulsions is too damn many, even if the expulsions are commuted to involuntary transfer to another school.

That's a start.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 08:42PM

Well put, excellent analysis.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drugs are Bad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "if you cut down all the laws in your pursuit of
> the devil, what are you going to do when he turns
> on you and you have nothing to hide behind"<
>
> So now our kids are devils, Roper?
>
> Of course, you mean everyone else's kids, that is.
> Not your perfect angel who will never get caught
> in the maw of this system.
>
> The Lord Chancellor was speaking of adults, of
> course, in that quote. Not children to whom he
> was reportedly very indulgent.
>
> Our laws include the Constitutions, its promise of
> a public education (Virginia's Constitution) and
> due process and its protection against self
> incrimination and cruel and unusual punishment.
> Our laws include the FCPS regulations against a
> principal questioning a child about a disciplinary
> matter until after the parents have been notified.
> Our laws include the right to counsel which FCPS
> actively discourages. Our laws also allow a
> person to record any proceeding against them. FCPS
> doesn't.
>
> Our laws regarding juveniles takes into some
> account the limitations on their ability to
> exercise self control and judgment. Shall we
> ignore those too like, just like FCPS.
>
> Shall we only pay attention to the "laws" that
> keep your child in a cocoon against all
> unpleasantness in the world.
>
> It seems the ones "cutting down all of the laws"
> is FCPS and the other defenders of the current
> disciplinary system. Are you to be counted among
> them?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 09:01PM

What IS it with you? Who is advocating that schools, whether by commission or omission, be "turned into dangerous areas"? Your statement is absurd prima facie. You must be a troll. But that's okay, you're amusing regardless. I should be grading, but I'll play a little longer.


Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> I think the "laws" in this case would be the
> procedures and policies preventing the
> dysfunctional, whether temporarily or more
> profoundly, from turning the schools into
> dangerous areas.
>
> And on St. Thomas' indulgence, he was an avid
> burner of heretics, wasn't he? And saw the
> persecution of heretics as necessary not only for
> the preservation of the Faith, but also for the
> maintenance of public order.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:10PM

An excellent start. What "Drugs are Bad" and others appear not to appreciate is that this is not advocacy of a "Wild in the Streets" approach to school management, it is the removal of extra-legal and abusive policies and procedures from the school's "arsenal".

Should then schools be deprived of the ability to discipline students for infractions of school rules? Of course not. Fear of punishment remains an effective tool in maintaining order, until such time as the individual develops a mature social conscious. But every single disciplinary action needs to be evaluated for educational intent and soundness. Correction not retribution needs to be the overarching principle. Suspensions and Expulsions (full or modified) contradict the purpose of education, and should be eliminated. Only an idiot can't see that.

Note that I don't say students can't be removed. When the "offense" violates statutory law, then a court can decide if the danger the student poses to himself or others is sufficient to abrogate the student's federally guaranteed right to a free and appropriate public education. In such cases, alternative education is arranged.

Unless this system, which broke in the 1990s, is fixed, we will see more horrible tragedies like the one that spawned this forum. I believe the school did not involve the police because they knew that no crime had occurred. Instead, they choose to pursue this through "internal security", so that they did not have to worry about legal niceties (the things St. Thomas More was defending in the movie quote introduced by "Drugs are Bad"). They could railroad the student with impunity.

Why? Because they must maintain the illusion of safety and security at all costs, especially in light of Columbine, Va. Tech, and others. What they fear is the endless drone of helicopter parents filing endless lawsuits about school safety. Tossing a few confused kids to the proverbial lions is a small price to pay. FCPS is self-insured. They have a small legal staff and use the services of one of the better law firms in the county. They are well positioned to stave off the occasional lawsuit from the parents of a child already tainted by their hermetic disciplinary apparatus. They would collapse under the weight of scores filed by parents angry that little Skippy and Hoppy are scared of the loud boys at the other end of the cafeteria. It's a simple (depraved) calculus.




Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Montgomery County has adopted a more educational,
> therapeutic model for most offenses that should be
> Fairfax's model. So have other leading systems.
> Punishment is not the object. Learning, growth
> and maturation are the objectives.
>
> After exploration, drug use is mostly about
> self-medication to relieve other mental health
> issues. Get to those issues and get the kid help.
>
>
> Yes, we don't need a 60 page tome that no one can
> read or understand with all of its citations to
> the Va. Code. E.g, "insubordination" is an offense
> for which suspension is a punishment?! Is this a
> military organization? Don't we want students who
> question authority?
>
> Parents must be called before questioning begins.
> The SRO should not be allowed to be involved if
> there is not clear and immediate threat to
> personnel safety. If an SRO is in the room,
> Miranda warnings must be given and can only be
> waived by a parent or guardian.
>
> Appeals officers should not be consulted by
> principals during the imposition of punishment at
> the school. Appeals officers should never engage
> in humiliating conduct toward student or parents.
> Transcripts of the hearing should be provided to
> all parties.
>
> 3000 suspensions and 700 expulsions is too damn
> many, even if the expulsions are commuted to
> involuntary transfer to another school.
>
> That's a start.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 20, 2011 10:29PM

Professor,
I think you overestimate your intellectual gifts. Otherwise you would have remained on point rather than insulting your interlocutor.

I think it is a mark of intellectual weakness when one has to resort to slights and the like rather than respond to arguments. As for my use of philosophical terminology and the like, I wont be submitting those usages to your judgement. I daresay I have more education in the matter than you, having taught philosophy at a college. Have you?

Your "corrections" of my use of "inderdict", "obtain" and "polity" are nothing of the sort. And your definition of polity is not correct anyway. Look it up.

But your pedantic approach has served a purpose--to reveal an overweening concern with who "appears" correct.

So let me give you another try--your ploy is an attempt to say that school officials are, or should be, unable to enforce laws.

My refutation of this is that they already are in that position, on the matter of guns.

So your attempt to propose somekind of law-neutral environment fails.

Then, seeing your failure, you try to retreat to a claim that double jeopardy is your real point.

But that's, again, facetious, given that transferring someone from one school to another constitutes legal "punishment" only in the mind of a teenager. As many point out above, the entitlement to public education is served wherever the child is educated.

The interdiction of behavior (from the latin "inter" preposition, taking the accusative, and added to the perfect passive participle of dico, dicere, dixi, dictus--to speak, and therefore meaning to speak or proscribe in between) does not refer to the meeting out of penalties, but rather the safeguarding of facilities from that behavior.

Finally, you said that you didn't believe heroin dealers should be expelled. This means you favor letting them ply their trade on school grounds. No straw man there, you said it. It seems a bit of an experiment to me, given that most would think that is not currently what would be allowed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Date: February 21, 2011 08:26AM

I graduated from WT Woodson in 2001 and if nothing has changed (which I believe is the case) the school probably has a heavy hand in this child's suicide. When I attended I heard about suicides all the time, some initiated by administrators and principals who decided their own authority was more important than the well-being of the school. I am willing to make the bold statement that W.T. Woodson killed Nick Stuban, a promising athlete and human being. I know this much, if he was using the synthetic marijuana, legal or not, that was probably the reason he was suspended for so long. It was also probably the reason his school leaders told him he needed help, that he had a problem, maybe even suggested suicide to him as cautionary tale to help him SHAPE UP.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: James K. ()
Date: February 21, 2011 08:47AM

FCPS failed Nick Stuban. They imposed the harshest penalty for one legal pill. Kids make bad decisons and they scewed this kid over one bad decison. How about giving kids another chance for small infractions?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Saddened ()
Date: February 21, 2011 12:25PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drugs are Bad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, its about the hundreds of thousands of other
> kids in the system, who deserve protection.<
>
> From administrators more interested in destroying
> their lives than helping them mature and grow.
>
> 30% of FCPS high school kids admit doing drugs.
> Your precious one probably has a best friend who's
> using. There's another in the seat next to them or
> in front or behind them.
>
> Some of these kids got suspended because they had
> a birth control pill in their purse.
>
> Or the deceased granddad's keepsake penknife
> clipped to a backpack.
>
> Everybody else's kid is a threat to your kid,
> right? They all must be destroyed to protect your
> kid.
>
> God help you if your kid ever gets caught in this
> grinder.
>
> Like the girls on the high school field hockey
> team when one teammate, one, showed up to football
> game drunk.
>
> The whole team was made to take a breathalyzer.
> Even girls not sitting next to the drunk.
>
> But your perfect child must be protected no matter
> the destruction visited on other lives.

+1

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Truth Be Told ()
Date: February 21, 2011 12:48PM

Ladies and gentlemen,
This whole thread is a giant example of the “Pussifiaction of America”! Get ready for the North Korean invasion, while you debate the system. Making excuses you your own flawed kids. Notice the parents that raised their children right, aren’t on FU.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Yo momma ()
Date: February 21, 2011 02:45PM

Shit, that dumb nigga used to live right by me.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: rrrfffff ()
Date: February 21, 2011 03:39PM

My Daughter went to middle school in FFX and we moved due to the issues there, 2 shootings and she was asaulted in the hall, when I went in to talk to the people taking care of it, they blamed her. we moved.
I pitty anyone living there who cant move.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: rrrrffff ()
Date: February 21, 2011 03:42PM

I think it is a matter of the low hanging fruit. If a kid is very bad, it is harder for the administration and it is intimidating for them. on the other hand, a stupid mistake is a good outlet for them, the administration, so they throw the book and claim 0 tollerence and let the monsters go unrestrained.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: curious ()
Date: February 21, 2011 04:13PM

Jeff Yost, Principal

Administrative Assistant:
Deb Boullianne
703-503-4607

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: woodson mom ()
Date: February 21, 2011 05:53PM

My son is a sophmore at Woodson and knew Nick from freshman and JV football. We attended Nick's viewing and memorial and the memory haunts me every night. This morning my husband and I were furious after we read the quote from one school board member admitting that the act of transferring students was punitive and not for the good of the student or the school which has been the Board's mantra throughout this issue. And, after reading that the school had Nick sign a confession of sorts before his parents arrived prompted my husband to admonish our son to never sign anything without one of us being there. Finally I was incensed to read that some administrator(s) discouraged the Stuban's from consulting an attorney for the initial hearing. What right has the administration to get underage students to sign anything without parental consent and to discourage consulting attorneys for a legal process? I've thought that Jack Dale needs to be fired for years. Now I think there are a whole lot of school board members need to go as well.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: firedale ()
Date: February 21, 2011 07:34PM

I agree completely with "Woodson Mom". Jack Dale needs to be fired over this in addition to the school board members and Mr. Yost!! These so called educated individuals should have known better to handle this situation differently.

I was SO angry after reading the article in the Washington Post about what really happened to Nick......OVER synthetic marijuana (LEGAL)!!! Thank you to the Stuban family for sharing this information. This was unfair...this was WRONG!! To have Nick sign a confession (and to even talk) without the presents of his parents and then later discouraging the Stubans from consulting an attorney, is criminal. After all that has happened to Steve and Sandy, I hope they have the strength to sue the hell out of FCPS. If possible, the law suit should force the resignation of Dale, Yost and everyone else involved in this terrible tragedy and force criminal charges on them!! After reading the article my husband and I pulled our kids together and instructed them to NEVER EVER sign or talk with FCPS officials or police if something has happened at school, without our presents. AND we will have an ATTORNEY with us!!

I have children in Woodson who have known Nick since Mantua Elementary. Though my kids had lost touch with Nick as they got older, they always had kind words for him! I, myself, remember Nick from the times I volunteered at Mantua. What a beautiful smile he had!!

I went to Nick's viewing at the church. There wasn't a dry eye in the church!! The pictures of Nick as a baby, a young boy and then a teen were adorable. My heart broke at the picture of a young Nick hugging Sandy.

I have lost faith in our school system being there for "our kids"! I do not trust them or their motives!

Steve and Sandy, I am so sorry you are going through this. My thoughts are with you and have been since the day this happened. Nick is looking down at you and is proud of what you are doing to open up our eyes to the problems at FCPS.

Rest in peace Nick.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: yeah_ok ()
Date: February 21, 2011 07:43PM

yeah, suicide...the blame is placed everywhere but to the person that took their own life....yeah, discipline in school sucks, yeah cloudy rainy days suck, yeah, beltway traffic sucks....but the decision is made by one person...accept it

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: it's not okay ()
Date: February 21, 2011 08:02PM

To yeah_ok:

None of us live in a vacuum. Interactions with other people matter. How we treat our kids matters.

Can you "blame" a kid who was despondent and whose world had been crushed? He was not a rainy day or traffic on the beltway. He was a kid who was crushed by the very system most of us trust to take care of our kids. It's hard to believe you would make those analogies.

Someday you may go through some difficult situation where you feel powerless and it is hard to move on in life. I do hope that someone will treat you like a little bit more than a rainy day or beltway traffic.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 21, 2011 08:17PM

woodson mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now I think there are a whole lot of school board members need to go as well.<

Tina Hone, Dan Storck, Sandy Evans and Patty Reed voted to investigate this issue. Hone is not running for re-election.

Storck, Evans and Reed need your support in November.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: beenthere ()
Date: February 21, 2011 09:37PM

HB 1548 - which passed in the VA House, Failed in the VA Senate. This bill would require the school to notify the parents of any disciplinary action.

FCPS lobbied against the bill - yes parents and taxpayers, your dollars spent to lobby against the bill that would protect your child.

Do not think it cannot happen your child. They could be dragged out of class, taken to an office, grilled for hours, forced to sign a "confession" and you may not hear of it for a long, long while.

I had to retrain my child - I used to say you can trust a policeman, teacher, etc. No more. Zip your lips and only open them to demand to call your parents.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: yeah_ok ()
Date: February 21, 2011 11:15PM

it's not okay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To yeah_ok:
>
> None of us live in a vacuum. Interactions with
> other people matter. How we treat our kids
> matters.
>
> Can you "blame" a kid who was despondent and whose
> world had been crushed? He was not a rainy day or
> traffic on the beltway. He was a kid who was
> crushed by the very system most of us trust to
> take care of our kids. It's hard to believe you
> would make those analogies.
>
> Someday you may go through some difficult
> situation where you feel powerless and it is hard
> to move on in life. I do hope that someone will
> treat you like a little bit more than a rainy day
> or beltway traffic.


ok, been there too, lost several people to suicide...you can blame all you want on everything else..should we blame his family, should we blame a teacher inthe hallway, no, he got in trouble and there must have been other things going off along with this, but again..lash out, blame everything and everyone else while trying to make an irrational act seem rational...obviously you were lost on the traffic/rainy day pseudo analogy....oh well, blame me...

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Seeker ()
Date: February 22, 2011 01:02AM

beenthere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HB 1548 - which passed in the VA House, Failed in
> the VA Senate. This bill would require the school
> to notify the parents of any disciplinary action.
>
>
> FCPS lobbied against the bill - yes parents and
> taxpayers, your dollars spent to lobby against the
> bill that would protect your child.

What was the rationale for opposing HB 1548? There must be something more to this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 22, 2011 11:45AM

My comments are interspersed...

Drugs are Bad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Professor,
> I think you overestimate your intellectual gifts.
> Otherwise you would have remained on point rather
> than insulting your interlocutor.

You are my what, "interlocutor"? Are you certain about that? And actually, my point was to insult you.


>
> I think it is a mark of intellectual weakness when
> one has to resort to slights and the like rather
> than respond to arguments.

What arguments?

As for my use of
> philosophical terminology and the like, I wont be
> submitting those usages to your judgement. I
> daresay I have more education in the matter than
> you, having taught philosophy at a college. Have
> you?

Nope, never have, though curiously enough, my undergraduate degree is actually in philosophy. My Masters and PhD are in a STEM area, shall we say. What college hired you? To protect your privacy, you don't have to give out the name, just enough of a description so that I could identify it. I think you are lying. Your phrasing is awkward and shows no knowledge of higher education. An academic would say "I have more education in the 'field' or 'discipline' than you not 'matter'". Moreover, your phrasing implies that because you "taught philosophy at a college" you have "more education...than" me "in the matter". That's backward. So I know for certain you didn't teach Symbolic Logic.


>
> Your "corrections" of my use of "inderdict",
> "obtain" and "polity" are nothing of the sort. And
> your definition of polity is not correct anyway.
> Look it up.
>

You are using a dictionary of the English language, right?


> But your pedantic approach has served a
> purpose--to reveal an overweening concern with who
> "appears" correct.
>

What in the world are we to make of this? "Pedantic approach"! An "overweening" concern with who "appears" correct. What fustian bombast!


> So let me give you another try--your ploy is an
> attempt to say that school officials are, or
> should be, unable to enforce laws.

My what? My "ploy"? My "cunning plan"? You never taught philosophy. You lack fundamental reading comprehension, and are sadly obsessed with using words whose meanings you don't know. I'm not being "overweening" here, I'm frustrated. My position is simple. If school officials believe the law has been broken, they should turn the matter over to law enforcement. Let 5,000 years of legal tradition handle it. If they don't believe the infraction violates law, then any disciplinary action should be corrective, and not punitive. A 10 page essay would have far greater impact (and in many cases be far more painful) than a 10 day suspension. Is this clear?

I don't want someone without training in law and/or law enforcement enforcing laws. We have a word for that as well...vigilantism.

>
> My refutation of this is that they already are in
> that position, on the matter of guns.
>
This is stupid. You persist in a line of argumentation predicated on false premises.

> So your attempt to propose somekind of law-neutral
> environment fails.

My "attempt to propose somekind [sic] of law-neutral...". Do you actually read what others write, or just make it up as you go along.

>
> Then, seeing your failure, you try to retreat to a
> claim that double jeopardy is your real point.

This is painful.

>
> But that's, again, facetious, given that
> transferring someone from one school to another
> constitutes legal "punishment" only in the mind of
> a teenager. As many point out above, the
> entitlement to public education is served wherever
> the child is educated.
>

Tabernac! Facetious means flippant, funny in an irreverent way! The word you probably intended to use is specious, S P E C I O U S. You fail.



> The interdiction of behavior (from the latin
> "inter" preposition, taking the accusative, and
> added to the perfect passive participle of dico,
> dicere, dixi, dictus--to speak, and therefore
> meaning to speak or proscribe in between) does not
> refer to the meeting out of penalties, but rather
> the safeguarding of facilities from that
> behavior.
>

You know what, stupid should be painful. You evidently went to the dictionary for this definition, and you still don't understand it.


> Finally, you said that you didn't believe heroin
> dealers should be expelled. This means you favor
> letting them ply their trade on school grounds. No
> straw man there, you said it. It seems a bit of an
> experiment to me, given that most would think that
> is not currently what would be allowed.


No, it means I don't think they should be expelled. But I'll give you an assignment, with should be simple in light of your extensive background in philosophy. Use Hume's "Ought-Is" dichotomy to prove the fallacy in my position.

I'll return in a day or so for your answer.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: anon user ()
Date: February 22, 2011 12:20PM

Seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > FCPS lobbied against the bill - yes parents and
> > taxpayers, your dollars spent to lobby against
> the
> > bill that would protect your child.
>
> What was the rationale for opposing HB 1548?
> There must be something more to this.


Agreed, and I was wondering the same thing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Drugs are Bad ()
Date: February 22, 2011 12:42PM

Professor,
Please. No one here is interested your thoughts of me or mine of you, least of all me.

Yes I taught college. If I'm lying how could you possibly confirm it either way. But I'm not. I have 2 masters and was ABD Ph.D in philosophy, after I scored in the 99th percentile on the verbal GRE (95 math, you've got me there probably).

I can read Latin, which means I didn't look any of those words up.

And yes, I meant specious rather than facetious. I mistyped (I was thinking the one and not the other) and I'm not proofing. Because I don't care.

My point is clear enough--your argument that school officials aren't involved in law inforcement is stupid.

Truancy, gun free zones, Trespassing, . . . . they are involved with reporting all of these things and administering them. If you want to say they are not involved with punishment, well, neither are cops, but we are not talking about punishment.

As has been pointed out ad nauseum above, transfers aren't punishment. Expulsion is something that is state-mandated for certain offenses (which was my point way back when I originally joined this thread, and which someone else above reiterated). So your problem is with the legislator.

All the rest of your puerile (from puer, pueri-2nd decl. meaning boy) "I shall see you on the field of honor on the morrow, my good man" stuff, save it for someone who cares.

If you feel like arguing the point, continue. I might respond after I finish leveling up on Call of Duty after grading papers. Or don't.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dale's Response ()
Date: February 22, 2011 03:03PM

From Dale:
Thank you for your letter. I want to assure you that we do annually review our discipline policies. This year’s review is scheduled for a Spring work session with the School Board. At that time we will also review any new laws passed by the Virginia general assembly. I note the General Assembly because you might be interested to know that many student discipline laws passed by the Virginia General Assembly compel us to take certain actions with given infractions – invariably, the law requires us to expel a student from his/her school. For example, most drug and weapon related infractions require an expulsion from school. Our staff and this School Board invariably find alternate placements for our students – in other regular or alternative schools – instead of expelling completely from our schools.

I have also included a link to our Student Rights and Responsibilities: http://www.fcps.edu/dss/ips/ssaw/SRNR/2010-11-SRR.pdf. Pages 7-9 delineate the changes in the SR&R since the prior year review. You will also note several references to state code. Your analysis of the state code and its impact on children might be useful information for our elected officials. The state code seems to have ‘zero tolerance’ for certain infractions. The due process requirements are also in the state code, and perhaps should be reviewed as well.

Again, thank you for your comments.

Jack Dale


Someone shut him up.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: The Post today ()
Date: February 22, 2011 03:09PM

But the hearing board showed the Stubans no compassion and no understanding. It stuck to Page 20 of the school system's disciplinary manifesto - the Student Responsibilities and Rights Handbook - that parents and students are required to sign each year.

On that page is explicit detail about Stuban's offense, saying that it "shall result in a ten-day suspension from school and recommendation for expulsion."

Fine. But why in the world didn't the hearing board disciplinarians consider something in the spirit of Page 23 from the same handbook: "Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions, the School Board may determine, based on the facts of a particular situation, that special circumstances exist and that no disciplinary action or another disciplinary action or term of expulsion is appropriate."

When you look at this family's situation and the student himself, Page 23 seems a much more reasonable place to begin.

If Page 23 doesn't exist for someone like Nick Stuban, than who can it possibly be for?

And yet, the hearing board stuck to Page 20, kicking a good kid out of school, a kid who needed the embrace of his school community more than anything else.

The whole ugly process went on for almost two months. During that time, Nick wasn't allowed to go to class or to his Boy Scout meetings or to sports activities. He became withdrawn and increasingly depressed. He'd been at his new school, Fairfax High School, for just a few days when he killed himself.

Stuban is the second Fairfax County student in two years to kill himself during the disciplinary process. Josh Anderson, a 17-year-old football player at South Lakes High School, did the same thing in 2009.

An entire organization dedicated to the school system's disciplinary policies and parents' experiences with it has sprung up: Fairfax Zero Tolerance Reform.

The people who want change aren't saying that kids shouldn't be disciplined when they do something dopey. But they argue that most don't deserve to be treated like criminals, either.

Here's what the zero-tolerance policy has taught folks in Fairfax: When kids get in trouble for a minor offense, they need to clam up while their parents lawyer up. Families who treat a kid's screw-up head-on, with honesty, integrity and sincerity, as the Stubans did, will pay a price - sometimes a terrible price.

Expelling kids for shooting plastic pellets out of a pen case, strip-searching them in a hunt for Ibuprofen or writing a 6-year-old up for sexual harassment after a playground booty smack is not education. It's an over-lawyered response that flies in the face of common sense.

Fairfax Superintendent Jack D. Dale said that zero tolerance was not a factor in the Stuban case and that the disciplinary process wasn't a factor in Nick's suicide. He called that conclusion "erroneous."

Here's the word I'd use to describe all of it: cruel.

E-mail me at dvorakp@washpost.com.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson Mom ()
Date: February 22, 2011 07:26PM

there were so many things in the last two Post articles that continue to fuel my anger at Jack Dale and some of the school board members but one thing that I can't get out of my head is why he was so cavelier when he indicated they'd review the policy in the spring as if this was just any other yearly policy review. Is his system so inflexible that he couldn't possibly imagine reviewing the policy now. Like, right now? Jack Dale cannot afford to suffer more of these battles.

I assume that the disciplinary review board and the hearing officials' names are confidential?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: form letter ()
Date: February 22, 2011 07:32PM

This is no excuse--but Dale's letter almost sounds like one of those form letters you get when someone has not really read what you wrote. Kind of like when you write a Congressman or a School Board member. I wonder if his assistant just punched it in.......

Personally, I think it more likely that he would not respond at all to their letter. That would be better than the one they did get.

He needs to go.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Is he a parent? ()
Date: February 22, 2011 09:32PM

Did Jack Dale ever have any kids? Just curious.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: remove the rot ()
Date: February 22, 2011 10:02PM

Woodson Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume that the disciplinary review board and
> the hearing officials' names are confidential?

These are the people in the hearing office (straight from the FCPS website) - completely public information.

Eileen Grattan, Hearing Officer
Anne Benedicto, Admininistrative Assistant
Brenda Adams, Assistant Hearing Officer
Lisa Felix, Assistant Hearing Officer
Pam McMillie, Assistant Hearing Officer
Dana Scanlan, Assistant Hearing Officer
Benita Toler, Assistant Hearing Officer
Kathy Bacon, Administrative Assistant
Sheena Cox, Administrative Assistant
Donna Dixon, Administrative Assistant
Elaine Scott, Administrative Assistant
Ella Stites, Hearing/Legal Tech

One of them (I think) was posting on FU a while back, defending the process. Posting as 'fcps employee and parent' on 01 Feb, they wrote:

"The hearings office isn't that bad but remember every day they hear this same story... Accept the suspension - don't fight that but first (again if your son's record is straight) politely request that he not be suspended"

So we're being coached by these people on how to show up on bended knee to plead for mercy. It's Kafkaesque.

We need a lot of sunshine on this process.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Meerow ()
Date: February 22, 2011 10:05PM

"....What is it with you and dead cats? Each of your posts has "swinging a dead cat...."

I remember when every thread on this forum had dead cat posts, cartoons and photos. Long live FfxULOLCats. Ahhh, the good ole days.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Newspaper reader ()
Date: February 22, 2011 10:58PM

I am wondering what happened to the student who offered to sell Nick Stuban drugs more than once? The Washington Post article did not address that, and perhaps that information is not public. But I am sure someone reading this will know and people who post messages here seem to share info, and many people probably are wondering like I am. How did the FCPS system deal with that individual -- expelled completely? Or just suspended & for how long? Longer than Nick? How many others were caught up in this drug-reaction discipline besides Nick? Or was Nick the only one subject to the discipline because of this drug transaction, even though the other person in the transaction was also a student? I'm a little unclear on what transpired....
Thank you.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: WTW upperclassman ()
Date: February 22, 2011 11:40PM

The kid that sold it to him was a special ed kid/shoulda been in special ed kid if he wasn't, and was expelled. I don't know if he even realizes the part he played in this whole story.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FFX Momuv3 ()
Date: February 23, 2011 07:46AM

So did any of you get the letter from FCPS school board member?

As follows:

Dear parents:  

By now, you are likely aware of the recent suicide of a Providence District FCPS student that was profiled on the front page of the Washington Post on Sunday, February 20 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2011/02/19/AR2011021904528_Comments.html

This is a tragedy for our whole community.

As your School Board member and Board liaison to the Fairfax County Partnership for Youth, I recognize there are many facets to student discipline, mental health and suicide.  The issues that have been brought to the forefront by the recent tragedy must be addressed by our community, FCPS and your School Board.  

Some of these perspectives include:

*A perceived excessive use of expulsions from base FCPS high schools for first-time, non-violent offenders, with no student emotional support services for impacted students.
* Belief that a parent should be present when a student is questioned and/or charged with a violation.
* Support for existing policies that protect the health and safety of each and every student.  

Clearly, it is time for a review of FCPS discipline policies and practices for fairness and effectiveness.  The review process should be transparent and should include many perspectives.

Two weeks ago, the Board of Supervisors passed a resolution encouraging a partnership between FCPS and county services to assist our troubled youth and to solicit input from the public to seek improvements to the disciplinary policy.  I support these collaborative efforts and believe that we need to have an open and honest dialogue with our community about how these and otherpolicies and issues are affecting mental and physical health of our students.  

I campaigned on the pledge that Your Child is My Top Priority and I take that pledge very seriously.  I value your input and I want to hear from you; I will represent your views in this important discussion because it impacts all of our children and our community as a whole. I can be reached at:Patricia.Reed1@fcps.edu.

Sincerely,

Patty Reed
Fairfax County School Board Member
Providence District


Not sure what all this means but let's hope they seriously consider how things are currently being handled.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Viv ()
Date: February 23, 2011 07:59AM

I like the letter. It seems like Patty Reed is sincere. Alas, Liz Bradsher is the school board rep for my area. She's far too busy with salvaging her thwarted political career to be concerned about draconian discipline measures that destroy students.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: too polite ()
Date: February 23, 2011 08:08AM

Patty Reed is trying to do damage control. The first thing she should do is call for Dale's ouster. He is her employee and his message is directly counter to hers. Isn't that a problem?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: very sad ()
Date: February 23, 2011 08:19AM

Is damage control all these people ever do around here?! So Patty Reed *might* mean well, but delivering spin after the tragedy is all residents can ever expect?

Why do they try to restructure their policies so that students who struggle with these issues have a resource to turn to, instead of just being slapped in the face, head, and tush and shown the door?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: give Reed a chance ()
Date: February 23, 2011 09:47AM

Give her a chance. She is new to the board. She is not my representative--but I wish she were. She voted against the budget along with Hone. Hone is liberal and Reed is conservative, but it appears that they are the only members with a lick of common sense. The others appear to rubber stamp anything that Dale does or wants.

The budget the board passed is totally unrealistic. They made no effort to cut anything that was fluff. They are holding up full-day Kindergarten to parents as a carrot to get people to write the Board for more money.

I am writing the Board of Supervisors to withold any increase until the SB is responsive to the students and parents of Fairfax County.

I think the only way to get rid of Dale is through the SB. The only was that will happen is to have a huge turnover--but I don't think I would get rid of Reed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: investigate! ()
Date: February 23, 2011 10:16AM

FFX Momuv3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So did any of you get the letter from FCPS school
> board member?
>
> As follows:
>
> Dear parents:  
>
> By now, you are likely aware of the recent suicide
> of a Providence District FCPS student that was
> profiled on the front page of the Washington Post
> on Sunday, February 20
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/articl
> e/2011/02/19/AR2011021904528_Comments.html
>
> This is a tragedy for our whole community.
>
> As your School Board member and Board liaison to
> the Fairfax County Partnership for Youth, I
> recognize there are many facets to student
> discipline, mental health and suicide.  The
> issues that have been brought to the forefront by
> the recent tragedy must be addressed by our
> community, FCPS and your School Board.  
>
> Some of these perspectives include:
>
> *A perceived excessive use of expulsions from base
> FCPS high schools for first-time, non-violent
> offenders, with no student emotional support
> services for impacted students.
> * Belief that a parent should be present when a
> student is questioned and/or charged with a
> violation.
> * Support for existing policies that protect the
> health and safety of each and every student.  
>
> Clearly, it is time for a review of FCPS
> discipline policies and practices for fairness and
> effectiveness.  The review process should be
> transparent and should include many perspectives.
>
> Two weeks ago, the Board of Supervisors passed a
> resolution encouraging a partnership between FCPS
> and county services to assist our troubled youth
> and to solicit input from the public to seek
> improvements to the disciplinary policy.  I
> support these collaborative efforts and believe
> that we need to have an open and honest dialogue
> with our community about how these and
> otherpolicies and issues are affecting mental and
> physical health of our students.  
>
> I campaigned on the pledge that Your Child is My
> Top Priority and I take that pledge very
> seriously.  I value your input and I want to hear
> from you; I will represent your views in this
> important discussion because it impacts all of our
> children and our community as a whole. I can be
> reached at:Patricia.Reed1@fcps.edu.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Patty Reed
> Fairfax County School Board Member
> Providence District
>
>
> Not sure what all this means but let's hope they
> seriously consider how things are currently being
> handled.


What a tragedy that they need blood on their hands and the BOS on their back before this review was undertaken. If Yost, Dale, and Grattan had any honor, they'd resign. But I don't expect they will.

Hopefully this is not BS, but someone actually seeing and pushing for real change. The idea that 'a parent should be present when a student is questioned and/or charged with a violation' is even something that needs to addressed tells you how bad the system is. Accusation is all that is needed - then they go about building their case through intimidation, both of students and parents. These people are bullies - we need to stand up to them. Most bullies are just cowards who put on a brave face.

It should not be lost on everyone that to a person, the Hearing Office is all female, and I'm betting that 80% of the cases they see are against male students. I've seen in FCPS that the standard for conduct is the quiet, studious female student. If you are unfortunate enough to be born with a Y chromosome, you will get in trouble in FCPS.

I think the lack of diversity amongst the hearing officers should be examined closely - maybe having someone engaged in the process that grew up male, or minority, or whatever would allow for a little more compassion and little less cruelty.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: FFX Momuv3 ()
Date: February 23, 2011 11:23AM

I am new to the county but I can say that there are all sorts of things that I see wrong with the school board and their "policies". To start, the fact that they really do not prepare these children to be held accountable for their actions until they expect them to do it "cold turkey" when they reach High School.

We coddle these kids so much in the early stages that when they get into high school and are supposed to behave like young RESPONSIBLE adults, the methods are totally foreign to them. As a parent, if my husband and I did not enforce our "old school" household rules, our kids would run amuck at school like many of the other kids.

Secondly, I agree with previous statements that we are being run by an office that would rather be lazy and apply blanket punishments as opposed to looking into each and every individual case and apply punishments accordingly.

I am not blaming the loss of these kids on the school board and their process, or the parents. I am saying that there are some definite changes that need to happen on ALL fronts.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Jackie Sara ()
Date: February 23, 2011 11:44AM

Family of Fairfax teen suicide victim wants changes in school disciplinary policies

Woodson Highschool, Fairfax, Virginia

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/21/AR2011022104302.html

Read the article in the washington post, very sad.

Jackie

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Mary ()
Date: February 23, 2011 11:51AM


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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Martha ()
Date: February 23, 2011 12:53PM

Good lord, people. How many times do you have to repost the article link? do you think people come here and only read one message?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Elizabeth ()
Date: February 23, 2011 11:53PM

This is a little off topic. FCPS appeals process is really screwed up. I worked several years at Belle Willard Special Education Department. School system always says get the parents involved. Belle Willard was the place where the hearings were held for special education students. Let me tell you parents don't stand a chance in hell. I would go into the ladies room and the school hearing people would be talking all sorts of nasty stuff about the parents. I remember them saying so and so's mother showed up in a Mercedes who does she think she is. They would talk about oh no here this one comes again. I knew one mother who was a special ed teacher at a catholic school in the area who did not like what they were doing with her son. Walked into the bathroom and boy were they badmouthing her. I knew this woman and I thought her complaints were justified. Like I said you don't stand a fighting chance with these people. I just wonder how they would react if some of this stuff was happening to their own children.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: true ()
Date: February 24, 2011 07:15AM

Yes, I was actually told not to show up at a local screening for my son. It was my first experience with this whole system. I had no idea that I was supposed to be there. They told me that it was not necessary for me to be there. !! I believed them. I"m sure they all talked about how they couldn't believe how a parent would not show up.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: lies ()
Date: February 24, 2011 08:53AM

Not surprised that administrators in FCPS lie to parents. It's like they have to deal with enough difficult parents (either wealthy/bullying types, or the opposite), so they lie to everyone to keep it simpler for themselves.

Why don't they fire some of these administrators who continue to do a HORRIBLE job of helping students? If these people don't even want to help kids, they need to go. It's a waste of people's money to be paying them salaries when they don't accomplish anything useful.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Moving to Maryland ()
Date: February 24, 2011 11:53AM

Va. teen's suicide prompts Md. review of disciplinary policies


By Donna St. George
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 23, 2011; 11:05 PM

Maryland officials will ask school systems across the state to examine their disciplinary policies in the aftermath of the suicide of a Northern Virginia football player who took his life as he grappled with the fallout of being suspended from his high school.

"I want to get some assurance that this never happens in our districts," said Kate Walsh, a member of Maryland's State Board of Education who became concerned about the issue after reading an article in Sunday's Washington Post about Nick Stuban, 15, of Fairfax County. "Every aspect of what happened to that boy in Fairfax County is an abuse of school authority."

Stuban was out of school for two months - then transferred away from his friends, team and teachers at W.T. Woodson High School - after admitting that he bought one capsule of JWH-018, a synthetic compound with marijuana-like effects. The substance was legal at the time but not allowed at school.

The teen later described his actions as a "really stupid decision." His parents said that his disciplinary hearing was confrontational and devastating to him and that it lacked due-process protections. As the Stubans have grieved, they have called for policy reforms.

In Virginia, state Sen. J. Chapman "Chap" Petersen (D-Fairfax), brought the issue to the floor of the Senate in a speech Tuesday. In a later interview, he said the Fairfax system needs more transparency and parental involvement as well as a greater emphasis on "the best interests of the child."

Fairfax officials have said on several occasions that the system does not use a "zero-tolerance" approach to discipline and considers each case individually.

Said Petersen: "I respectfully disagree. I think there tends to be a zero-tolerance mentality that threatens the reputation of the school system."

Petersen, a lawyer, said he has been to several school disciplinary hearings in recent years.

The process, he said, is "a kind of prosecutorial system without any of the safeguards you would expect from that kind of system."

Some Fairfax parents and activists said they planned to bring their concerns to a School Board forum that will consider discipline policies and other issues. It is set for 5:30 p.m. Thursday at Luther Jackson Middle School in Falls Church.


In Maryland, the board asked State Superintendent Nancy S. Grasmick at a meeting Tuesday to discuss the case with local superintendents at their next monthly meeting to ensure that "they all do soul-searching on this front to make sure this couldn't be repeated," as Walsh put it.

Of concern, she said, was Stuban's transfer to another high school and what she called an "overreaction . . .. a lack of common sense." She took issue with lengthy periods out of school. "The time out of school only aggravates the situation, and in the case of this boy, it created a whole new range of problems," she said.

Barbara M. Hunter, assistant superintendent for communications and community outreach in Fairfax, said the district was not aware of Maryland's action and could not comment.

The Virginia Board of Education has not discussed the matter and generally leaves the implementation of disciplinary policies up to local school districts, board Vice President David M. Foster said.

Foster said state law requires zero tolerance for having such items as firearms and controlled and imitation controlled substances on school grounds, but he said that "precise disciplinary action taken is left largely to the local boards," as are the procedures used by any district.




I want these MD people working in Fairfax County.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 24, 2011 01:47PM

Moving to Maryland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I want to get some assurance that this never
> happens in our districts," said Kate Walsh, a
> member of Maryland's State Board of Education who
> became concerned about the issue after reading an
> article in Sunday's Washington Post about Nick
> Stuban, 15, of Fairfax County. "Every aspect of
> what happened to that boy in Fairfax County is an
> abuse of school authority."



Loved that quote.

-------------------------------------------------
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: cat has her tongue ()
Date: February 24, 2011 02:04PM

Barbara M. Hunter, assistant superintendent for communications and community outreach in Fairfax, said the district was not aware of Maryland's action and could not comment.


Since when does Ms OVER PAID BLABBERMOUTH have no comment?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: MP ()
Date: February 24, 2011 08:53PM


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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Gone by June ()
Date: February 24, 2011 09:30PM

With all the attention this is getting, Jack Dale and Eileen Grattan will be gone by the end of the school year. Tisdat won't be far behind. Then maybe we can reclaim our school system in the fall with a new SB.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: February 24, 2011 10:04PM

This story is now on Channel 5 Fox news.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: more ()
Date: February 24, 2011 10:20PM

Gone by June Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all the attention this is getting, Jack Dale
> and Eileen Grattan will be gone by the end of the
> school year. Tisdat won't be far behind. Then
> maybe we can reclaim our school system in the fall
> with a new SB.


Add Yost to that list.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: hopeandchange ()
Date: February 24, 2011 10:22PM

Dana Scanlan too

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Latent ()
Date: February 24, 2011 11:33PM

I watched the Fox 5 story about earlier, and Dale seems like he might be a repressed homosexual. Something about his gestures and mannerisms, and the way he bobs his head around when he speaks. And what sane man says something like, "Oh heavens, no!" I am on to him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: 620 ()
Date: February 25, 2011 07:56AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: a question ()
Date: February 25, 2011 08:37AM

After watching the SB process last night, I am beginning to wonder. Is it the ZT policy itself or the way they apply the policy that is so messed up? From what I read the policy has room for exceptions--except that the SB never makes any exceptions. I do think there are times that expulsion is appropriate (I know of one case where it was). Certainly, if they could not make an exception for the Stuban boy, they weren't going to make an exception of anyone.

I find it very interesting that Jack Dale was arrogant and agressive in his reply to the Board of Supervisors last week, but that he is now open and flexible since the WAPO article..

Does this mean that he cares more what the rest of the world thinks than the citizens of Fairfax County and Supervisors (who give hime money)? Nothin has changed from a week ago except for the publicity in the WAPO.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: what are you doing dave? ()
Date: February 25, 2011 09:50AM

620 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Centreville HS teacher supports zero tolerance
>
>
> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-opinions/20
> 11/02/the_rationale_for_strict_high.html
>
> David.C.Campbell@fcps.edu


Then FCPS should replace the teacher disciplinary system with an exact copy of the student disciplinary system. I'm sure that would be just fine with Dr. Campbell, since he thinks the hearing office system is so great.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: to HAL 9000 ()
Date: February 25, 2011 10:42AM

what are you doing dave? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 620 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A Centreville HS teacher supports zero
> tolerance
> >
> >
> >
> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-opinions/20
>
> > 11/02/the_rationale_for_strict_high.html
> >
> > David.C.Campbell@fcps.edu
>
>
> Then FCPS should replace the teacher disciplinary
> system with an exact copy of the student
> disciplinary system. I'm sure that would be just
> fine with Dr. Campbell, since he thinks the
> hearing office system is so great.


It looks like you primary logic functions aren't operating, HAL.

They fire teachers for the sort of stuff in the SR&R and turn 'em over to the cops.

I mean if a teacher was caught at school with drugs they'd go to the slammer fo sho

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: ex-teacher ()
Date: February 25, 2011 10:44AM

I don't know anything about this kid or the schools, principals, or admin involved.

But, based on my exepreince in FCPS, it is extremely rare that an expulsion is based on an isolated event. Many teachers felt that the schools and central admin went too far to attempt to provide opportunities for kids to rectify their miscreant ways.

Please remember that he was transferred to another school.

As tragic as his suicide is, and as a parent I simply cannot imagine the horrible grief his parents must be experiencing, I doubt that this one event was the sole cause of the suicide.

Maybe the school system has changed dramatically since I retired but I doubt it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: 2866 ()
Date: February 25, 2011 10:49AM

The rationale for strict high school discipline
By David Campbell, Springfield
Have the authors of the Feb. 20 front-page article on Fairfax's zero-tolerance discipline policy ever been in a class with students who bring drugs or weapons to school, who buy drugs at school or are chronically disruptive? Such students can create a bitter and fearful environment for students interested in learning, and students who care are grateful when the frequent fliers in the disciplinary system are removed from their classes.
In a Jan. 23 Metro story about Nick Stuban's suicide, a student who transferred to W.T. Woodson High School after having committed vandalism at another school complained that his disciplinary hearing was "degrading," and that he was "treat[ed] like a criminal," as if somehow vandalism were not a crime and disciplinary hearings were supposed to boost his self-esteem. If students are so concerned about "degrading" encounters, they might consider how degrading it is to students whose property is vandalized, or to the maintenance staffs who must clean up vandals' messes. They might consider as well how grossly unfair it is that their disruptions make learning harder for other students.
I don't doubt that Nick Stuban was a good kid who made a dumb mistake. But he did buy a marijuana-mimicking substance at school. Woodson officials had to treat what seriously, and they did.
The writer is a teacher at Centreville High School

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 25, 2011 10:53AM

620,

Mr. Campbell is entitled to his opinion and his privacy. His opinion, though fallacious, is certainly informed, as he lives the reality of the "blackboard jungle" every working day. Like so many here, however, he commits the straw man fallacy. His statements about disruptive students and "good" students being denied their opportunity to learn are overblown renditions of what he perceives the "opposition" believes.

Trolls aside, no sensible person would disagree that there are students whose chronically bad behavior warrants removal from a mainstream classroom. Beyond this, things get dicey. Some people apparently feel that misbehaving students should be suspended or banished to another school (a "fresh start"?, how naive!) or expelled. That "will teach 'em a lesson". If so, it must be a very difficult lesson to learn, otherwise the recidivism rate for violators of all ages would be zero. That's obviously not the case. The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world -- at least among nations that honestly report such statistics. And the recidivism rate for non-sex related crimes can range as high as 80% (interestingly enough,the highest rates are for the old traditional ones, armed robbery, car theft, etc., proving, it would seem, that prison doesn't even produce smarter criminals).

But we're not discussing the U.S. criminal justice system here. Not directly, anyway, but what is going to become of kids who don't learn their "lesson" and have no education? The earlier Poster who was concerned about his 10th grade daughter's safety in class needs to fast forward and think about his/her 26 year old daughter out on the jogging path, with no school officials to protect her.

Suspensions and expulsions, modified or otherwise, should be stopped immediately. They have no instructional purpose, other than punishment, and I refer the reader to the comments above concerning the efficacy of punishment as teaching. There are students whose behavior is sufficiently disruptive that they need to be removed from the classroom for a time -- though my personal research into this area indicates that teachers with poor classroom management skills are the ones who most often lose control and subsequently escalate the situation. But there is no reason why the classroom cannot be streamed back to a cubicle for the little "miscreant" to watch and participate. This is, after all, the 21st century.

Students whose inability to follow school procedures is chronic should incur a series of interventions designed to help them learn socially acceptable standards of behavior. Parents should be in the lead on this, assisted by appropriate school personnel, and not the other way around. Parents who show no interest in working with their kid clearly could not object to the school then proceeding without them. If you think this would be expensive, consider the costs, actual and social, of our incarceration rates.

Sentiment aside, the old African proverb is right, it does "take a whole village to raise a child". Parents, teachers, neighbors, coaches, friends, clergy, local businesses, all impact a kid's world, and each plays a role in seeing that kid grow and become a productive member of the community. That structure is gone if kids are sent into the solitary confinement of suspension and expulsion. Nothing but tragedy lies there.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: may2010 ()
Date: February 25, 2011 10:54AM

Thanks "ex-teacher", good point, I don't have time to read all of these posts, but has anyone thought of the possibility that this is not a "school" issue but something deeper, maybe medical, maybe personal, MAYBE FAMILY, and this incident just pushed him over?
How is the school to know that and/or be held responsible?

Another example of a permanent solution to a temporary problem

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 25, 2011 07:42PM

TheProfessor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Students whose inability to follow school
> procedures is chronic should incur a series of
> interventions designed to help them learn socially
> acceptable standards of behavior. Parents should
> be in the lead on this, assisted by appropriate
> school personnel, and not the other way around.
> Parents who show no interest in working with their
> kid clearly could not object to the school then
> proceeding without them. If you think this would
> be expensive, consider the costs, actual and
> social, of our incarceration rates.
>
> Sentiment aside, the old African proverb is right,
> it does "take a whole village to raise a child".
> Parents, teachers, neighbors, coaches, friends,
> clergy, local businesses, all impact a kid's
> world, and each plays a role in seeing that kid
> grow and become a productive member of the
> community. That structure is gone if kids are
> sent into the solitary confinement of suspension
> and expulsion. Nothing but tragedy lies there.

There is so much that can be done prior to expelling or transferring a student. First, zero tolerance is wrong and it's pretty clear from the testimonials here and elsewhere that the FCPS process is in need of vast improvement. Taking away privileges and other varied disciplinary actions should be used, and parental involvement at the earliest stages is crucial. Was FCPS's unfairness the sole cause of this tragedy? Likely not, but it most certainly was the catalyst, and wholly avoidable.

-------------------------------------------------
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 25, 2011 08:44PM

ex-teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe the school system has changed dramatically since I retired<

It has.

It's changed dramatically since 1995 when my oldest had the barest of brushes with the discipline system.

The SR&R is now 60 pages. It started at 5.

State Code has changed though it are not the straight jacket Dale and FCPS like to pretend it is.

Most importantly, a punitive, prosecutorial model has been adopted for all offenses, even the most innocuous, throughout FCPS from the assistant principals through the School Board appeal panels.

As my youngest graduated last year, I can assure you that the FFX Juvenile Court and Probation office is far more appropriately effective today than FCPS's discipline process.

>I doubt that this one event was the sole cause of the suicide.<

Our understanding of the adolescent bran has advanced volumes in recent years due to research using MRIs, Petscans and Catscans. We now know that the male adolescent mind is not fully wired to comply with society's norms until 25 or so. Until then, impulsivity is high, no matter what the parenting style and access to the "reptilian" parts of the brain are a first reflex.

Recent peer reviewed research tells us that teenage suicide can go from ideation to implementation in 3-5 days after a catalyst. So it is quite likely that Josh's and Nick exposure to the FCPS discipline system was a major contributing factor to their suicide.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2011 08:55PM by Thomas More.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: mark j ()
Date: February 25, 2011 09:30PM

You all missed the real blame here....the hearing board is the problem.
They act like Nazi's AND it takes FOREVER for the paperwork to get processed.
Kids can't go ANYWHERE until the paper work is complete..These people drag their
feet.
It is the board's arrogant fault

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: another mom ()
Date: February 26, 2011 07:54AM

Has anyone heard of the Rutherford Institute? It has engaged on the situation experienced by the Stubans. Please see the letter it prepared for parents of children in FCPS to send to the school:

http://www.rutherford.org/pdf/2011/02-25-2011_fcps.pdf

See also Rutherford's letter to Dale:

http://www.rutherford.org/pdf/2011/02-21-2011_Jack_Dale.pdf

I am encouraged that with this kind of advocacy behind them, the Stubans will be effective instruments of the changes that might have made a difference for our beloved Nick...who is missed again and again in the classroom, on the field, on the campouts, in the neighborhood.

Steve and Sandy, we love you.
>>>

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 26, 2011 10:04AM

mark j Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You all missed the real blame here....the hearing board is the problem. They act like Nazi's AND it takes FOREVER for the paperwork to get processed. Kids can't go ANYWHERE until the paper work is complete..These people drag their feet. It is the board's arrogant fault<

I beg you not to ignore the interrogation by the principal and a police officer in a locked room, held incommunicado, without benefit of parent/guardian or attorney, being forced to write out a confession and the principal calling the appeals office to get instruction on the sanction to be imposed.

All before a parent or guardian is called.

That part of the process needs to immediately change also.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: What happens ()
Date: February 26, 2011 11:16AM

What happens if you do not sign the rules and regulations? Do they keep track of every students paper work?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: K Vienna VA ()
Date: February 26, 2011 11:20AM

This is the saddest most horrible thing a parent must go through. I am sitting here full of tears and am so mad. This should have never happened but with having 3 Daughters in FCPS this is not the first time I have heard such horrible stories. Lives of thise kids and families are completely destroyed by one little mistake. Then other kids who come to school drunk seem to return and play sports! I do not understand if you have a policy why is it not equal? Why do some kid just keep getting in trouble and you still see them at school shoveling gravel...and other kids are kicked out of there school, not to see there friends and put into schools that they do not know anyone.! I have been a FCPS student myself and had a wonderful experience and I know kids are testing the boundrys every day and you have to have rules but these rules that are in place right now are way to strict. There has to be guidelines that look at the individual kid. From reading this article Nick Stuban was a wonderful kid, role model and son, friend so why could you not look at him and say you are suspended for a week and go back to school and hopefully learns his lesson. The next time sure kick him out of school because he should have learned a lessson. This is just the most tragic stoy I have ever heard. FCPS put a scarlet letter on him and sent him to the wolves. Could the board members not see he was emotionaly hurting so much because of his poor MOM. Did they even give that any consideration? These practices from FCPS have to change and if we all stand up for ourselves we can change it! If anything we owe it to all the poor kids that were wronged by FCPS that are now in cemetaries that should be having the time of there lives not looking down and keeping us safe.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 26, 2011 11:27AM

What happens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What happens if you do not sign the rules and regulations? Do they keep track of every students paper work?<

Your signature only acknowledges receipt. There's language above the signature line that says signing it is not a waiver of rights. They stopped charging $50 for not signing some time ago. But teachers hassle the kids every day until they get the signed page back.

I took to writing across the page that went back, "I do not agree with much of this."

And contrary to what that lying sack of bovine excrement, Stu Gibson, continues to repeatedly say, even though he's been corrected innumerable times, it is most definitely NOT A CONTRACT!!!!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Seeker ()
Date: February 26, 2011 12:36PM

another mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone heard of the Rutherford Institute? It
> has engaged on the situation experienced by the
> Stubans. Please see the letter it prepared for
> parents of children in FCPS to send to the
> school:
>
> http://www.rutherford.org/pdf/2011/02-25-2011_fcps
> .pdf
>
Does this letter have any teeth, or is it just hand waving? The message seems reasonable, but what happens if your child gets into trouble and the school follows the standard procedure?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 26, 2011 01:19PM

Seeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> another mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Has anyone heard of the Rutherford Institute?
> It
> > has engaged on the situation experienced by the
> > Stubans. Please see the letter it prepared for
> > parents of children in FCPS to send to the
> > school:
> >
> >
> http://www.rutherford.org/pdf/2011/02-25-2011_fcps
>
> > .pdf


It's as strong as your kid is in resisting their 3rd degree techniques.
> >
> Does this letter have any teeth, or is it just
> hand waving? The message seems reasonable, but
> what happens if your child gets into trouble and
> the school follows the standard procedure?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Do sign any forms ()
Date: February 26, 2011 05:26PM

I will not sign any form that allows FCPS to investigate my child without a parent present. How can we stop them from doing this to our children like they did to Nick Stuban? We need to fight to change the laws in Virginia to protect our kids.

Telling your child to not talk to adults with authority goes against what we have always told them. I think it would be hard for a child to stand up for themselves.

Let's fight the current policy that allows a child to be investigated without a patent present that may get them to be expelled. We need to do this before another child commits suicide by the hands of our school system. We need to do this for Nick Stuban too. Let's not ignore any longer what FCPS is doing to our kids.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: *do NOT sign any forms ()
Date: February 26, 2011 05:27PM

Sorry.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: tell ur kidz ()
Date: February 26, 2011 05:32PM

Tell ur kidz:

a) don't bring drugs to school
b) don't buy drugs at school
c) don't deal drugs in school
d) don't bring weapons to school
e) go to school to learn
f) get medical help when you're ill, physically or mentally

tell 'em then tell 'em again.

when ur kidz buy drugs from someone who's had a second (third, fourth, fifth) chance and OD's, will you ask for stronger laws? then it will be "fire the pansy administrators who are too afraid of legal action" and "fire Jack Dale and his bleeding heart wimps"!

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: February 26, 2011 05:36PM

tell ur kidz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell ur kidz:
>
> a) don't bring drugs to school
> b) don't buy drugs at school
> c) don't deal drugs in school
> d) don't bring weapons to school
> e) go to school to learn
> ...
>
> tell 'em then tell 'em again.

Exactly.

The "school" part seems to be what most of the loser-defenders are missing.

Do your drug crap OFF school property - dumb perhaps, but no longer school business.

Do it ON campus, however, and I support kicking your ass off campus permanently.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: logic ()
Date: February 26, 2011 05:53PM

Parental Opinion Wrote:
> Do it ON campus, however, and I support kicking
> your ass off campus permanently.

this kind of "logic" completely escapes me. A student is kicked off of FCPS high school A's campus and transferred to FCPS high school B's campus, meanwhile a student at FCPS high school C is transferred to A's campus for the same offense.

Many blame the student, perhaps thinking their child would never get into a situation like this or remotely similar that could result in suspension/expulsion/transfer. Then they use the premise that all are aware of the SRR (despite most probably believing that parents would be present for an interogation) and the "logic" that if the kid is off campus drugs are now off campus too, or similar kids are off campus too, failing entirely to understand that if Nick and others are transferred out, students with similar "offenses" are transferred in.

No one has proved that these transfers help the student, or even help the schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 26, 2011 06:04PM

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> The "school" part seems to be what most of the
> loser-defenders are missing.
>

Well, since you fired first, you are either dense, duplicitous, or don't have kids in FCPS. Otherwise, in your study of the SR&R, you would have noted that the school system claims the right to intrude into and taken action on a student's out of school activities and behaviors, if it deems that they are detrimental to the educational process. In sum, the FCPS could have invoked the same discipline for Mr. Stuban's possession of a suspicious substance off-campus -- though not in this case, since the drug in question is not illegal.


> Do your drug crap OFF school property - dumb
> perhaps, but no longer school business.
>

Again, you are quite mistaken. The school does consider it their business, and will act upon it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: To tell u r kids and others ()
Date: February 26, 2011 06:13PM

I am talking about a child being investigated without a parent present. If the child was in the wrong then they should have consequences. I do believe minor misbehavior should get you expelled from your home school. Kids make mistakes. To say it will never happen to your child is wrong.


Minor: Pot,skipping class, legal drugs on a person.

NOT minor: Guns, bullying, gangs and fighting.

Minor consequences: Saturday detention with a PARENT at school.

Major consequences: Having the child expelled or an alternative high school.

These are just some ideas.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: TheProfessor ()
Date: February 26, 2011 06:15PM

tell ur kidz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell ur kidz:
>

Parenting advice from someone writing messages like a texting 15 year old. That's rich.


> a) don't bring drugs to school
> b) don't buy drugs at school
> c) don't deal drugs in school
> d) don't bring weapons to school
> e) go to school to learn
> f) get medical help when you're ill, physically or
> mentally
>
> tell 'em then tell 'em again.
>
> when ur kidz buy drugs from someone who's had a
> second (third, fourth, fifth) chance and OD's,
> will you ask for stronger laws? then it will be
> "fire the pansy administrators who are too afraid
> of legal action" and "fire Jack Dale and his
> bleeding heart wimps"!

The issue is not "stronger" laws, the issue is their enforcement. Your argument makes no sense. The location of a drug transaction does not make it any more or less a crime, or do you mean to suggest that drug sales in malls are okay, because the number of "chances" the seller has had is not a consideration.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: How about the justice system ()
Date: February 26, 2011 06:20PM

I think the justice system should handle these cases and keep the SB out of the business of expelling kids. The system is already in place. At least then our kids can have due process with a lawyer.

FCPS does not know the law, they just make it up as they go. The schools are failing our kids.

I do not want another child to commit suicide because of our school system. The system is broken and it is up to us as parents to make sure it gets fixed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: February 26, 2011 07:54PM

How about the justice system Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the justice system should handle these
> cases

No way - too many loopholes, too much time to justice, not appropriate for cutting the cancer out of the school RAPIDLY - right NOW - not some number of delayed years later.

====

With respect to expelling a bad kid from one FCPS but letting that same bad kid attend a DIFFERENT FCPS school - =that= is the "chance to go straight" that even a bad kid gets. Fuck up AGAIN and you get kicked out of ALL FCPS schools. I can live with that for the relatively minor offfenses that result in the correct initial expulsion. Of course, major offenses should get the bad kid booted ALL THE WAY out of the school system.

====

There's a catchall "and if you do anything else off campus we don't like, we're coming after you!" clause that, on the face of it, seems TOO catchall. Later on in the SR&R, however, the conditions where that applies are further explained. I wouldn't mind at all if the School Board made that a little clearer. In fact, the SR&R is BLATANTLY clear about all sorts of stuff so they really should clarify this part as well (for example, a bad kid beats up a fellow same-school student afterhours off campus, FCPS says they can go after him yet the same wording suggests the bad kid can beat up some fellow NON-same-school student and get away with it...hmmmm...).

I strongly believe in clear wording describing offenses and consequences. The SR&R does that pretty darn well - it's quite clear, especially with matters that apply to THIS thread (e.g., the guy got suspended and, for whatever reason, the one who makes such decisions decided to NOT let the bad guy get JUST a suspension but instead should get the already clearly defined and DEFAULT expulsion. The bad guy, however, decided to appeal meaning that the bad guy STAYED suspended until that much-longer process was completed - JUST as VERY CLEARLY described in the SR&R. This works for me - the idea is not to treat the bad guy with kid gloves, it is to protect the OTHER students FROM the bad guy - this is good).

=====

To all the folks who continue to say there is no difference between on and off-campus activity - so very wrong! My kid doesn't socialize (yet) with the loser drugies et all, neither do HUNDREDS of other students PER school. If the activity doesn't take place ON campus, then the activity has no more real impact on those hundreds of kids than a news article (or rampant rumor!). Have the activity take place right in front of those kids, though, and the personal impact is MUCH greater. No thank you - get the bad guys OUT of there, MAYBE give them a second chance somewhere elsewhere but still in the system. If they fuck up again, ax them.

Because it's not the bad guys most want to protect.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: logic ()
Date: February 26, 2011 08:14PM

Parental Opinion Wrote:
>
>
> No thank you - get the bad guys OUT of there,
> MAYBE give them a second chance somewhere
> elsewhere but still in the system. If they fuck up
> again, ax them.
>
> Because it's not the bad guys most want to
> protect.

Again though, the "bad" guys are in your school via being transferred from another school for similar offenses. Like I said before, student from one school transfers to another school for a joint, student from that school goes to first school for a joint. Where is the logic? Your child is still around "bad" guys.

Provide treatment/rehab/punishment..whatever is deemed appropriate, but keeping the child in their school provides the support system to truly get through the treatment etc. Switching kids who commit similar offenses is rather illogical.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: If you are not in school ()
Date: February 26, 2011 08:16PM

If you commit a crime out of school the police and justice system are called in.

I think this is issue is more about the school NOT calling the parents if their child is in trouble.

We need to be informed before our kids are interviewed and made to sign a paper that may expel them. Kids may not understand what they are signing. They are KIDS. We should allow them to make mistakes while they are young.

We as adults have Miranda rights. So should are kids if a parent is not present or called during a school interview.

I do not understand why all parents would not want basic rights for their kids.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: February 26, 2011 08:30PM

If you are not in school Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not understand why all parents would not want
> basic rights for their kids.

Do kids sign binding confessions without parents present?

Or are they simply interrogated?

("interrogated" - a nice harsh word for "questioned")

What rights do I want for my kid? I want my kid to be able to ask for a parent and clam up. That's pretty much it. I believe kids have those rights right now.

If a bad kid answers questions - tough - the SR&R says they can be searched, questioned, etc. But if that bad kid says "I don't want to talk to you and I want my parent contacted NOW" then I have no problem with that happening.

Of course, if a parent is NOT then contacted something needs correcting. I haven't heard of any such instance, though. The SR&R, of course, says a student can be questioned thus suggesting the student can CONTINUE to be questioned even after a parent is notified and until and after the parent arrives, but I'd expect a request for parent presencce to be honored.

=====

Note, though, that this thread is about a specific instance of a bad guy getting disciplined exactly as the SR&R said he would be disciplined if he did what he apparently actually did. I just do NOT have a problem with that.

Because I'm on the good kids' side.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: The State of Virginia ()
Date: February 26, 2011 08:44PM

Our great state has said the school CAN interview a child who may be expelled without a parent present lawful. They may interview a child for ANY reason.

No,no,no. We should not allow this to happen in this day and age.

We need to fight for ALL the kids of FCPS.

Even if you think it might never happen to your child you should still care.

BTW: If your child is a witness they can still be called in and be expelled without your knowledge.

The last time I checked this is still the USA.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: February 26, 2011 08:53PM

Uh...asking a kid questions is fine with me as long as the kid can simply sit quietly not answering them. I believe a kid CAN sit quietly without answering them right now. My own kid has been told in no uncertain terms that she has the right to remain silent and can ask for a parent to be contacted; can she be browbeaten into talking anyway? Perhaps...but that's a different problem entirely.

However, your words suggest the kid can get expelled without the parent being notified/present - I believe that is incorrect (except, of course, for the horrible worst-case reasons such as murdering 479 other students, etc).

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Wrong ()
Date: February 26, 2011 08:55PM

Nick Stuban had a lot going for him. He also had a lot of stress. I as an adult have a sick parent and it is hard. Try to think if you are fifteen and going through everything he was going through. I do not think many can handle what Nick tried to do. He was cut from support from his community and school.

Is the SB heartless and cold to a child in need! YES! This child needed compassion NOT the FCPS to drop him like they did. They did contribute to Nick's death.

I do not like what FCPS has done to so many in need.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: They are just kids ()
Date: February 26, 2011 09:01PM

You say your child would never say a word till you were in the room at school while they were being brow beaten by adults? You are a fool.

Many adults have said they committed a crime they did not while under stress.


We need to address the shameful way FCPS are treating our kids. Right now they have no rights. I do not feel comfortable with this. Do you?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Bart ()
Date: February 26, 2011 09:10PM

The law-and-order blowhards are as hilarious and phony as the day is long. They are oh so self-righteous when they stupidly claim these are basically bad kids getting what they deserve. They will ignoratly hold this opinions until their kid does something goofy and they experience first hand the grotesue abuses and lawless violence perpetrated by the hearings office gestapo. Then they will screech loudest of all.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 26, 2011 09:30PM

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Because I'm on the good kids' side.

Right there is where your logic fails.

It is not a clear dichotomy, although you and the FCPS discipline process, as it is currently enforced, view things as such. There are degrees of seriousness in rule breaking, and just as you would not treat a repeat murderer the same as a first time traffic violation, zero tolerance is wrong.

-------------------------------------------------
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: To: Bart ()
Date: February 26, 2011 10:07PM

+1

I like the way you think.

Sarah

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: another mother ()
Date: February 26, 2011 11:33PM

There is alot of talk about getting the bad kids out of school so they don't hurt others....which sounds important....I suppose that means getting the bad drug dealers out of school so they don't prey on other vulnerable students and try to sell them drugs.....but hey, wait a minute --> this is the Nick Stuban thread!! Which was Nick's role in this -- was he the drug dealer soliciting to others? Or was he a vulnerable kid tripped and hooked by the dealer's solicitations?

That is the doggone thing about this situation, and this discussion -- Nick is exactly the kid we would all want "the system" to protect -- a good, hardworking, sensistive kid, trying to stay on track with his life but vulnerable nevertheless like many of our children are. Some kids are more vulnerable than others -- for any number of reasons; for Nick perhaps it was the stressful longterm situation (ALS) that many adult caregivers would find hard to handle even in the short term. Perhaps this made him more vulnerable than many to the bad influence of the bad kids. But ARRRGH -- did the system protect Nick? What did it do for Nick, to Nick?


(This is starting to feel like -- how do we fail thee, let me count the ways.... I can't stand it.)

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: So Mad ()
Date: February 27, 2011 09:56AM

The SB needs a dose of common sense and a boot in their asses. WTF...Where has the common sense gone people? How crazy is it that the same punishment be dished out for giving your friend Motrin as if you brought a grenade launcher to school...unbelievable. Black and white...no gray nothing in the middle. How about a case by case way of handling things. how about letting the SGC having input...they know the real deal.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: the logical conclusion ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:31AM

If you think the disciplinary system is FCPS ok the way it works now, all you have to do is read the article below from today's Post. Aggressive, coercive interogations of kids not resulting in expulsions, but criminal charges against parents. Not FCPS, but the tactics sound similar. This particular case is going to the Supreme Court.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/27/AR2011022703904.html

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Wrong logic ()
Date: February 28, 2011 03:02PM

Frankly,

If my kid gets found at school with dope on them. I don't want them to say a thing. that way the school just know that they dope on them. The school doesn't need my kid to explain nothin. They wrer in possession of dope, period. no need to go explainin anythin. Mybe they will just get a minor saturday detention for the dope. i'll attend with them, no sense writing things down. it's dope. not our kid, not your problem. Util my kid sells some to your kid. then they get caught, don't write down nothin. He, He, He

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: check it out ()
Date: February 28, 2011 07:56PM

On the "Epstein vs. Strauss" school board thread here, someone posted that a young man named Eric Lee Strauss, possibly son of Janie Strauss, FCPS school board member for Langley, has numerous arrests for possession of marijuana, etc. Not sure if the fellow is in fact her son, but someone on here would know for sure.

Do as we say, but not as we do...

Do the school board members like Tessie, Liz, Janie have no shame at how hypocritical they are?

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: He was an adult ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:16PM

He is a total loser. I believe he was over 18 when he was caught with pot.

You can be a great parent and still have a loser for a kid. Name one family that does not have a least one fuck up.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: say what ()
Date: February 28, 2011 08:49PM

He was an adult Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is a total loser. I believe he was over 18 when
> he was caught with pot.
>
> You can be a great parent and still have a loser
> for a kid. Name one family that does not have a
> least one fuck up.



I thought Strauss's kid taught at a school?

Do we have a pot head for a teacher?

So much for drug free schools.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: Woodson HS??? ()
Date: March 03, 2011 07:29PM

I think that our kids are getting so much pressure put on them, without being taught how to cope.

When I grew up in the 70s, we didn't worry about terrorists flying airplanes into buldgs., or mass shootings like at Columbine HS or VA Tech.

I really feel for all of these children & their families.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: simmerdown ()
Date: March 08, 2011 09:18PM

http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201103/k2-gains-popularity-among-athletes-similar-high-pot-no-positive-drug-test


“It’s a danger to anybody who thinks this is a legal way to get high without being caught,” says Jay Schauben, director of the Florida Poison Control Center. “The possible side effects include significant hallucination, cardiac effects, seizures, rapid heart rate, hypertension, severe agitation, passing out, and panic attacks.”

Rozga believes a K2 high led to his son’s suicide. The Indianola police chief, Steve Bonnett, wrote a letter saying David “had a severe panic attack after smoking K2, which resulted in his death.”

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fact check ()
Date: March 08, 2011 10:42PM

To simmerdown's post:

Thanks for sharing this info, it highlights another of many significant concerns about K2 - not least of which is knowing what its specific ingredients are and the unforeseen consequences of voluntarily or involuntarily ingesting it might be. Thankfully, action is finally being taken to preclude it from being readily purchased.

As for the implied linkage to Stuban and his suicide: the reports are that he purchased and tried JWH-018 - not K2 (there is a difference; as the DEA notes JWH-018 is one of but hundreds of look-alikes that K2 may be laced with). Also his reported use was in Oct but his suicide was in Jan; unlike the immediate reaction "David" is reported as having had.

It is more likely that the experience Stuban had in between those dates was a greater influence. Namely, the manner is which the FCPS disciplinary process was conducted.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: fact recheck ()
Date: March 09, 2011 08:01AM

fact check Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...in between those dates...

As noted by his parents, he was a drug user of more than K2 or clone.

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: reality ()
Date: March 09, 2011 09:46AM

Woodson HS??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that our kids are getting so much pressure
> put on them, without being taught how to cope.
>
> When I grew up in the 70s, we didn't worry about
> terrorists flying airplanes into buldgs., or mass
> shootings like at Columbine HS or VA Tech.
>
> I really feel for all of these children & their
> families.


You really are naive to say the least, most are worried about what is on facebook and not much beyond anything they can remember a year ago..

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: .... ()
Date: March 29, 2011 02:34PM

RIP Nick Stuban. Its been over 2 months, and he is missed all over FCPS.

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Re: Fairfax High School student
Posted by: Jenna Pratz ()
Date: August 02, 2012 12:49AM

Just saw this, and to whomever claimed I "kciked him out on the middle of the highway" is very misinformed. Just to clear my name

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Re: Fairfax High School student | Nick Stuban
Posted by: sad ()
Date: October 08, 2012 07:16PM

sad very sad

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