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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: In The Know ()
Date: January 01, 2011 05:53AM

everyone's problems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The schools and the federal budgets don't have the
> money because they have to pay for the people who
> do not want to work or the illegal kids that are
> coming in from other countries. The middle class
> is supporting everyone. Many of the parents of
> the kids on free and reduce lunch know that they
> lie when they fill out the application. Knowing
> their kid gets free and reduced lunch also
> qualifies them form other free services. If the
> country, county and schools don't start taking
> care of their citizens we will really start having
> problems. People need to start being adults and
> take care of their own children

You've made a great point. However, the rest of us "true" citizens fail to recognize much of this. We fail to fight it because we know that there are illegals here - we see them lining up for their day labor jobs that they'll hopefully get. However, if it's not our neighborhood that they're lining up in, we just keep on driving and are thankful that driving away from it, keeps us away from it. But, the school system doesn't drive away from it. It's squarely in their own "back yard" and is dealt with on a daily basis.

Are the "illegal" parents of these children making enough income or legally contributing to the tax base? No, they're not. So, ho is the school system supposed to afford the $7,000 per year, per student of these "illegal" parents??

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: page turner ()
Date: January 01, 2011 09:45AM

The bullshit from 5 posters under different names made it to a 3rd page. These FCPS posts are always good for a long run.

Oh yeah, almost forgot

Dale must go!
FCPS are Nazis!
Zero Tolerance kills!
Brown Shirts, Brown Shirts!
The Post will hear about this!
I miss anything?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Random Teacher ()
Date: January 01, 2011 09:52AM

25 interviews included second interviews. I and my admin knocked all of the preliminary interviews out in 2 days. It might sound excessive, but we wanted the best possible person for the job - I actually insisted on the massive amount of interviews, not my admin.

What costs? My admin was already there during the summer and I volunteered my time so we got the right person in my department. I suppose you could count the Chipotle I ate for lunch as a cost, although it came out of my pocket and not the taxpayers'.

Don't read too much into the school/position comment. I can assure you that I am nowhere near the Langley/McLean area. And like you said, some positions it can be hard to find the right certified candidate, other positions you get 60 resumes for.

wonder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Depending on the school and position, it is
> significantly more than 11 applicants for every
> opening. I was in on the hiring process for a new
> teacher this summer and we received over 60
> resumes and conducted over 25 interviews for one
> spot"
>
> Why did you conduct so many interviews? 25 seems
> excessive---that would take a long time and a lot
> of money to do. Did you go for second round
> interviews after the first run through with the
> 25? If every teaching positions requires 25
> interviews, no wonder there are so many
> administrators. Is this how you justify your 12
> month position?
>
> What do you mean by "depending on the school?"
> Does this mean that the schools like McLean and
> Langley have a lot of candidates, but others do
> not?
>
> I know that math and science positions are
> particularly hard to fill.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: show them the door ()
Date: January 01, 2011 11:08AM

In The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are the "illegal" parents of these children making
> enough income or legally contributing to the tax
> base? No, they're not. So, ho is the school
> system supposed to afford the $7,000 per year, per
> student of these "illegal" parents??


Whether residents are legal or illegal, they are paying rent or property taxes if they own a home somehow. The cost of rent would factor in the property taxes on the rented house/apartment. Since the county does not have an income tax, it's virtually impossible to avoid paying the property taxes in large part fund the schools and not be evicted/foreclosed in due course.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: needed changes in 2011 ()
Date: January 01, 2011 11:30AM

Since the typical illegal family has between 2 and 5 kids placed in our schools, conservatively speaking costing around 10 grand each, not counting free meals and the costs of building more schools, how about a round up each morning say at the Centreville Library, Herndon, everybody dons a yellow vest and is taken out to the county parkway and pick up some trash.Too much to ask? The rest of us who have worked our asses off to make Fairfax a decent place to live get nothing back from these leeches. The school budget in part keeps getting bigger not from rewarding employees with deserved pay raises, its mostly due to increased student population. A few years ago the predictions were the population was supposed to drop. In my schools case we lost positions because of this prediction but due to ineptness of the federal govt to protect our southern border, the opposite has occured.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 01, 2011 12:05PM

Cut the cost of the administrators, give the teachers a raise.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: January 01, 2011 07:46PM

One reason classroom teachers earn much less than former teachers at central headquarters is contract length. Generally, classroom teachers are paid for 194 days per year. In contrast, former teachers at central headquarters are paid for 260 days per year.

Classroom teachers I know frequently work extra days for which they are not paid. Some chaperone events on weekends. Some work extra days after school ends to organize their classroom. Some go to school mid-summer to set up their classrooms for the next year. And on days when their students are in the building, some stay for hours after the school day ends. Others go home, then answer their students' emails until late at night.

So, why not give classroom teachers 198-day or 200-day contracts? That's one way to compensate them fairly for the extra time they spend on our children.

FCPS can pay for longer contracts for classroom teachers by reducing the contract lengths for the former teachers at Gatehouse and its outposts, like Fairfax Ridge. Do we really need to pay former teachers to sit around in meetings during July - or to use that time to take a paid vacation? Why not give them an unpaid vacation - just like their former colleagues who work nonstop with our children during the school year? For that matter, do we need to maintain a 12-person PR department on expensive 12-month contracts?

Reducing contract lengths probably does not make sense for central staff who perform essential functions during the summer, like the people who work on renovations. But the entire Department of Instructional Services could take a one-month unpaid vacation in July, and I'd be surprised if many classroom teachers or students complained.


Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cut the cost of the administrators, give the
> teachers a raise.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Let us agree on this ()
Date: January 01, 2011 08:24PM

Teachers need a raise. They are teaching our kids and the future of America. They deserve respect. Sure some teachers should retire but most are doing the best they can.


We should ask FCPS to cut the cost of admin and give teachers a raise. Anything less is sad for all of us.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: help wanted ()
Date: January 01, 2011 10:01PM

***** the typical illegal family has between 2 and 5 kids placed in our schools, conservatively speaking costing around 10 grand each, not counting free meals and the costs of building more schools, how about a round up each morning say at the Centreville Library, Herndon, everybody dons a yellow vest and is taken out to the county parkway and pick up some trash.Too much to ask? The rest of us who have worked our asses off to make Fairfax a decent place to live get nothing back from these leeches. The school budget in part keeps getting bigger not from rewarding employees with deserved pay raises, its mostly due to increased student population. A few years ago the predictions were the population was supposed to drop. In my schools case we lost positions because of this prediction but due to ineptness of the federal govt to protect our southern border, the opposite has occured.*******

The federal HUD program gives these people housing assistance, utility assistance, medical assistance, food assistance, school supplies so a family of 5 (2 parents and 3 kids) get almost $35,000 or more tax free to live their lives (while we work to give it to them). When they get jobs either under the table or legit they still lie on the forms so their kids still quilify for free stuff. They don't want to use their money to support their kids they want us to. So don't let them fool you that they are really poor, we as tax payers are taking VERY good care of them.

Why can't some good honest polotician see this and run on it and CHANGE the way things are done. People lets get together and have our voices heard.

HELP WANTED: Someone to change the way government is run especially with our tax dollars.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 01, 2011 11:05PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One reason classroom teachers earn much less than
> former teachers at central headquarters is
> contract length. Generally, classroom teachers
> are paid for 194 days per year. In contrast,
> former teachers at central headquarters are paid
> for 260 days per year.
>
> Classroom teachers I know frequently work extra
> days for which they are not paid. Some chaperone
> events on weekends. Some work extra days after
> school ends to organize their classroom. Some go
> to school mid-summer to set up their classrooms
> for the next year. And on days when their
> students are in the building, some stay for hours
> after the school day ends. Others go home, then
> answer their students' emails until late at
> night.
>
> So, why not give classroom teachers 198-day or
> 200-day contracts? That's one way to compensate
> them fairly for the extra time they spend on our
> children.
>
> FCPS can pay for longer contracts for classroom
> teachers by reducing the contract lengths for the
> former teachers at Gatehouse and its outposts,
> like Fairfax Ridge. Do we really need to pay
> former teachers to sit around in meetings during
> July - or to use that time to take a paid
> vacation? Why not give them an unpaid vacation -
> just like their former colleagues who work nonstop
> with our children during the school year? For
> that matter, do we need to maintain a 12-person PR
> department on expensive 12-month contracts?
>
> Reducing contract lengths probably does not make
> sense for central staff who perform essential
> functions during the summer, like the people who
> work on renovations. But the entire Department of
> Instructional Services could take a one-month
> unpaid vacation in July, and I'd be surprised if
> many classroom teachers or students complained.
>


More importantly, I think it's time for a spending efficiency review in FCPS. Does the district really need all the layers of administrative expense with it's current structure?

Even the Dems studied this a a means to make spending go further:
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=139&subid=273&contentid=252606

Now that the Republicans are running things they should be able to find a lot of fat to trim.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: whats in a name ()
Date: January 02, 2011 12:06AM

So What's in a name? Staff, administrators, instructional staff, community liason, whatever.....THOSE AREN'T TEACHERS.

Convenient since last year FCPS administrators/central offices renamed depts and job titles to be considered "school-based employees", defined by said staff as one who may travel to a school in school affiliated work, from time to time....
Not only do the teacher/administrator ratios look leaner (especially with crowding schools) but even the administrative gestapo get raises when public outcry is to support the teachers. So what is a "school-based employee", really???
The lobbyists/lawyers with office space at Fx Ridge or Gateway? Garage parking isn't enough of a perk? justsaying...

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: herewegoagain ()
Date: January 02, 2011 01:26PM

Wow, it's not often that I agree with you, on anything. But this time, you are absolutely correct. FCPS needs to be audited, NOW! Every taxpayer in the County should be demanding an audit before FCPS is given another dime.




DaneBramage wrote:
More importantly, I think it's time for a spending efficiency review in FCPS. Does the district really need all the layers of administrative expense with it's current structure?

Even the Dems studied this a a means to make spending go further:
[www.dlc.org]

Now that the Republicans are running things they should be able to find a lot of fat to trim.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: say ()
Date: January 02, 2011 05:35PM

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More importantly, I think it's time for a spending
> efficiency review in FCPS. Does the district
> really need all the layers of administrative
> expense with it's current structure?
>
> Even the Dems studied this a a means to make
> spending go further:
> http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=139&subid=273&;
> contentid=252606
>
> Now that the Republicans are running things they
> should be able to find a lot of fat to trim.


"Now that the Republicans are running things..".

Say what? The last time I looked the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors was still 7 Democrats and 3 Republicans. And the Fairfax County School Board was still majority Democrat-endorsed (SB members are not identified by party).

Are you talking about the Republicans' new majority in the United States Congress?
I hate to tell you, dude, but the US Congress has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the day-to-day operation of Fairfax County Public Schools. FCPS is run by the School Board with monies transferred from the Board of Supervisors.

Goddamn, I thought I've seen some stupid dittoheads, but you take the fucking cake!

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: no more money ()
Date: January 03, 2011 07:59AM

well considering the school system already sucks off over 52% of the county budget....find some money there for your raise.....

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: January 03, 2011 08:46AM

Yes, the Board of Supervisors allocates over 53% of the county budget to the school system. To some extent, that is because the FCPS gets less money per pupil from the Virginia state government than the average Virginia school district.

It is possible to reallocate funds within FCPS. With a total annual budget that is roughly $2.5 billion (including all the funds, not just the main School Operating Fund), finding $40 million or whatever to give teachers a raise is not impossible.

However, shifting money around would require the School Board to cut back on other initiatives. For example, does FCPS really need a PR office with a dozen people, most of whom earn more money than teachers? Does FCPS need a program to train more assistant principals? Does FCPS need all those people working on the ever-growing SOL prep machine, known as ecart?

Even School Board members who would like to make changes are handicapped, because they lack adequate information about the true costs of programs. Nobody is attempting to accurately measure the amount of time central staff or school-based staff spend on many initiatives and programs. Does anyone really track exactly how all those high-paid cluster office Assistant Superintendents and directors are spending their time? Why not require all central staff to "bill" their time, like lawyers, accountants, and others? That might help reduce the extent to which the FCPS program budget underestimates the costs of some programs, while overstating the cost of other programs.


no more money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well considering the school system already sucks
> off over 52% of the county budget....find some
> money there for your raise.....

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 03, 2011 01:04PM

Before any boby starts defending raises for teachers maybe you should look at this site.
recovery.gov
In area code 22030 $56,965,657.00 was awarded in grants. Not all went to fx county schools but a large portion did.
I think an audit is in order then hand out raises. Maybe we less administrators and more teachers.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Sumguywhocantspell ()
Date: January 03, 2011 01:14PM

Those would include grants for transportation projects (like the 7100/Fair Lakes intersection), dummy.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 03, 2011 01:25PM

I said not all went to fx county school but a large portion did. You should read the post before commenting.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Anybody is one word ()
Date: January 03, 2011 01:45PM

I guess I'm not just any boby.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 03, 2011 02:38PM

any boby is that all you got. Come on you can do better than that.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: day of reckoning ()
Date: January 03, 2011 04:42PM

I can't wait until the following happens:

1. The federal stimulus money stops. Federal deficit of $19 trillion and counting. We can't print money fast enough.

2. The LCI is recalculated and Fairfax loses the $30 million "bonus" they got which they didn't deserve.

3. The moratorium in the VRS contribution is lifted AND they start paying back the years when we took a "holiday" from payments to the pension plan.

You people have no idea what is coming down the road in the next few years. We might as well thin the herd now.

And no, we can't afford any raises.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: lead by example ()
Date: January 03, 2011 06:41PM

States in fiscal mess: N.Y. governor cuts his pay
By Aaron Smith, CNNMoney staff writerJanuary 3, 2011: 3:57 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- New York's new governor, one of several greeted by billions of dollars in budget gaps, acted to cut his salary Monday amid reports he will freeze the pay of most other state workers.

Andrew Cuomo, who took office on New Year's Day, said he would cut his $179,000 salary by 5%. He also cut the pay of other senior state officials, including Lt. Gov. Robert Duffy, as well as the governor's secretary, counsel, director of state operations, counselor and chief of staff.

"Change starts at the top and we will lead by example," said Cuomo, a Democrat elected by a wide margin in November.

Cuomo faces a $9 billion budget gap in fiscal 2012, which begins April 1. He is far from alone -- the Conference of State Legislatures says the 50 states face a combined $82 billion in deficits in their 2012 fiscal years, as high unemployment continues to undermine a weakening tax base across the country.

The New York Times reported that Cuomo is expected to announce a one-year pay freeze for state workers during his first State of the State address on Wednesday.

The salary freeze has been part of his plan since the campaign. Prior to the election, Cuomo said contracts for 96% of the state workforce are up for renegotiation on April 1, the first day of fiscal year 2012, and he intended to keep them at their current levels.

"We must freeze salary increases for state workers for one year as part of our emergency financial plan," said Cuomo in his 252-page plan for New York, written when he was still on the campaign trail. "We will freeze salaries while the state takes other measures to get spending in line and recover from the current financial emergency."

The state faces a budget gap of $315 million for the current fiscal year, which ends March 31, according to Erik Kriss, spokesman for the state budget division. This is in spite of the state reducing its workforce by nearly 900 employees by Dec. 31, he added.

If the state doesn't close the gap by the end of this fiscal year, then it will roll over to fiscal year 2012, which already faces a budget gap forecast of $9 billion, said Kriss.

The situation gets worse. There are budget gap forecasts of $14.6 billion in fiscal 2013 and $17.2 billion in fiscal 2014, according to Kriss and the National Conference of State Legislatures.
**********************************************************

When will Jack Dale announce his pay cut and that of his senior staff making more than VP Biden and Chief Justice Roberts?

Waiting.......

To demand that taxpayers tighten their belts and shell out more money for county raises when he is unwilling to sacrifice is a joke.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Jack Dale must go! ()
Date: January 03, 2011 07:35PM

I agree! When will this man ass up. He loves to cut teachers salaries and close great schools but can never go without himself. What a joke.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 04, 2011 09:08AM

How many people out there have recieved a raise or pay increase of any kind? I'm sure most have taken a pay cut, reduction in hours or lose of job. I personal recieved a promotion which meant more work less money.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: January 04, 2011 10:01AM

I got one.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: promotion king ()
Date: January 04, 2011 12:29PM

sumguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> personal recieved a promotion which meant more
> work less money.

Damn, you'd really be screwed if you got a demotion..........

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 04, 2011 01:20PM

I was the lucky one some got fired. Not complaining, all I am say is we all want a pay raise.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 04, 2011 02:44PM

sumguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many people out there have recieved a raise or
> pay increase of any kind? I'm sure most have taken
> a pay cut, reduction in hours or lose of job. I
> personal recieved a promotion which meant more
> work less money.

I've received a raise every year for the past 5 years (right on the 12 month interval, too). Plus, I'm limited to 40 hours of work per week. I can't put in overtime (even for comp time) no matter how hard I try. Now, do keep in mind, this is the rule of management when you're working for a contract site. However, it's not realistic to expect that all work can get done in a 40 hour week. So, yes, I do work above 40 hours per week, but it's not on paper.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 04, 2011 03:00PM

Inn the know Wrote:

I've received a raise every year for the past 5 years (right on the 12 month interval, too). Plus, I'm limited to 40 hours of work per week. I can't put in overtime (even for comp time) no matter how hard I try. Now, do keep in mind, this is the rule of management when you're working for a contract site. However, it's not realistic to expect that all work can get done in a 40 hour week. So, yes, I do work above 40 hours per week, but it's not on paper.


Does this job happen to be contracted by the government.
Either way can you hook a brotha up?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 04, 2011 04:52PM

sumguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Does this job happen to be contracted by the
> government.
> Either way can you hook a brotha up?

Different governments - yes. As far as a hook-up, I'm not sure just yet. We were under a hiring freeze a few months back. However, that seems to change back and forth.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Monday off ()
Date: January 04, 2011 04:53PM

Given the pity amount of homework our kids get from the elementay school, I can't imagine why the teachers need a half day off to "work". The kids are only in school from 9:15-3:45, teachers should have plenty time each day to prepare for classes. The rest of the world has a full day school on Monday. And they are beating our asses on Math and Reading.



In The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> get rid of monday half day Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have no problem for giving the teachers a pay
> > raise, if they agree to work full day on Monday
> as
> > the rest of the WORLD does.
>
> They DO work full days on Mondays. Even though my
> wife puts the kids on the bus 2 hours early, she
> doesn't leave until the regular time.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: pls 'splain ()
Date: January 04, 2011 05:00PM

So explain this to me:

SOL's are soul stealing, rigid curriculum standards from on high that eliminate all creativity for teachers in the classroom......YET......

1/2 day Monday's and and two teacher workdays per quarter are required to 'prepare' to teach a completely standardized curriculum.

If the SOL's are what teachers say, what the heck are they preparing? I have never seen anything come home from school that looks like it was prepared by the classroom teacher - all of the homework assignments come out of a workbook.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Amount of homework ()
Date: January 04, 2011 05:17PM

My son is in third grade and he has on average an hour a night of homework. This does not include those "busy" work projects. I guess it depends on the school and the teacher your child has.

His next busy work project is about a historical person placed onto a pizza box?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: BrandonVA ()
Date: January 04, 2011 05:19PM

Your son should do a project about Hitler as a white civil right leader, there is nothing they can do about it. WTF does a pizza box have do do with an historical person?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 05, 2011 03:30PM

I did a little research on the FCPS web site and came up with the teachers salary scale. The pay looks real good to me for 194 days of work.
Attachments:
FY11-194-day_teacher.pdf

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 08:24AM

The pay is good, and the benefits are even better. We had a teacher in my daughter's school that took two weeks off in September to get married. Showed up, taught for two weeks, then dissappeared for two weeks. Who the heck does that? And what kind of management does FCPS have that allows that to happen?

You just had 2 mos off work, plus all the breaks, and you decide to get married and leave your class with a sub for two weeks in mid-September? Oh, yes, they are very committed to the children!

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: slubdawg ()
Date: January 06, 2011 08:53AM

Teachers get sick leave and can accumulate it, but they don't get annual/vacation leave. So, did this teacher take leave without pay or extended sick leave? If some administrator approved the leave that administrator should be fired, but as has been demonstrated over and over again administrators almost never get fired, and teachers have to have had some sort of illicit relationship with a student to get fired.

I agree, the teacher oculd have gotten married in the summer or waited until the Christmas, oops I meant Winter, holiday.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: You cannot be fired in FCPS ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:24AM

If your principal allows it you can take off as much time as you want. Since a teacher cannot be fired they do not care. Some teachers are wonderful but they are the younger ones.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:35AM

slubdawg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>So, did
> this teacher take leave without pay or extended
> sick leave? If some administrator approved the
> leave that administrator should be fired, but as
> has been demonstrated over and over again
> administrators almost never get fired, and
> teachers have to have had some sort of illicit
> relationship with a student to get fired.

I really don't know how it was arranged, but it was just shocking to me that 1) a teacher would ask to be gone for two weeks immediately after school started, and 2) an administrator would approve it. And please tell me that getting married is not an acceptable reason to take sick leave, but I'm afraid I know what the answer would be.

And if you complain about it, that just puts a big bullseye on your kid.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: unions do what? ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:47AM

Right now administrators wont say no to just about anything because "everyone is upset about no pay raises" Really? So you get pissed off if you dont get your way and are going where?. There are about 200 applicants for every open teacher job right now. I think the whining and threats are BS

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: NY snow removal ()
Date: January 06, 2011 10:31AM

Look no further than what transpired in NYC during their snow storm.

Sanitation workers were pissed off that their salaries were cut so what did they do?

10% called in sick and many others decided to "screw" the city and not remove the snow.

The result-no bigee...a few people died because ambulances couldn't get to them.

They don't care about anyone except their paycheck. All public workers are the same. They have this sense of entitlement. They think they deserve an annual COLA-who cares if inflation is 1%-we want 3%. Who cares if the health benefits and pension obligations are crippling the budget. They don't care if homeless people are put out on the street or if families with children don't receive aid.

They want their raises and for us to pay for their golden years.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: slubdawg ()
Date: January 06, 2011 11:24AM

hard to believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
And please tell me that getting
> married is not an acceptable reason to take sick
> leave, but I'm afraid I know what the answer would
> be.
>


I think sick leave would be in order after being married for awhile!!!!!!

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: time for pink slips ()
Date: January 06, 2011 11:30AM

Fairfax teachers push county for school change
January 6, 2011 - 9:24am



"WASHINGTON -- As the Fairfax County School Board looks to its 2012 budget, teachers and their unions are considering "devastating" ways to force change to the system they say is flawed.

Teacher unions say the stress of an increasingly unmanageable workload is compounded by two years without raises, and they are prepared to coerce the school system for reform.

"We want to formally address the workload issue with the school board," says Fairfax County Federation of Teachers President Steven Greenburg.

Teachers have specifically complained about having to enter online lesson plans and data for student evaluations, the Washington Examiner reports.

"We're not actually working with the children," says Greenburg of the added responsibility. "We're working with the machines instead."

Fairfax County teachers aren't allowed to strike, but union leaders believe slowing their work down -- doing only what they're paid to do and not what they voluntarily do -- would be a valuable negotiation tool.

"Whether it's to stay after (school) and do an extra duty, or help a child or go home and grade papers, or do data entry or whatever it is that they're doing," says Greenburg, "if they decided that they would just do their seven and a half hours and stop at that, the repercussions on the system I think would be devastating."

A second local teachers' union raises the issue of what they describe as possible teacher burn-out.

"The increased workload is making it very difficult to get the basic job of teaching done," says Fairfax Education Association President Michael Hairston.

"Student achievement is increased, the achievement gap is closed, the test scores are up," he says. "So our folks are getting it done."

But Hairston adds teachers are at "a boiling point" now, where performance will begin to suffer "if something doesn't give."

The unions want the county school board to take steps to lighten the work load and commit to helping increase teacher salaries.

"There are a lot of options out there," if those two things don't happen, Greenburg says.

He also suggests his membership would work to prevent unsympathetic school board members and county supervisors from being re-elected next year.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: slubdawg ()
Date: January 06, 2011 11:42AM

Teachers, police, and fire fighters deserve to be paid a lot more than they get now. I'd like to see a detialed break down of where the money in Faiarfax Co goes.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: slubdawgydog ()
Date: January 06, 2011 12:36PM

That information is available and I would post it, but you're a douche.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: explain yourself ()
Date: January 06, 2011 12:41PM

slubdawg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers, police, and fire fighters deserve to be
> paid a lot more than they get now. I'd like to
> see a detialed break down of where the money in
> Faiarfax Co goes.


Why?

Justify.

I would love to see your explanation.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Veiled Threats ()
Date: January 06, 2011 12:51PM

time for pink slips Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax teachers push county for school change
> January 6, 2011 - 9:24am

> "There are a lot of options out there," if those
> two things don't happen, Greenburg says.

Moose, Rocco, help the judge find his checkbook.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 06, 2011 12:52PM

You need to remember that teachers, police and firefighter all have full benefit packages. They get full medicalcoverage plus retirement. which is different for each group but is about 2/3 of regular pay or better.That works out to be quite a nice bonus. That works out to about $40000 a year for a first year teacher with minimum reqirements.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 01:13PM

FCPS also pays both the employer AND employee contribution for the Virginia Retirement system. That would be like a private employer paying for your 401k contributions.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 06, 2011 01:24PM

How many employers pay in 70% of you pay and 100% of health?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 06, 2011 02:58PM

Teachers don't get 100% of their medical and dental premiums paid. That's pure B.S. They contribute - money is taken from their checks for their portion of the contribution.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:00PM

hard to believe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS also pays both the employer AND employee
> contribution for the Virginia Retirement system.
> That would be like a private employer paying for
> your 401k contributions.

Where did you hear this, or read this? Or, are you just making this up? To my knowledge, they don't get both portions paid. Contributions on their end is required.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: inn the middle ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:06PM

a small percentage compared to what private industry employees pay

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: inn the wrong ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:08PM

Inn The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hard to believe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS also pays both the employer AND employee
> > contribution for the Virginia Retirement system.
>
> > That would be like a private employer paying
> for
> > your 401k contributions.
>
> Where did you hear this, or read this? Or, are
> you just making this up? To my knowledge, they
> don't get both portions paid. Contributions on
> their end is required.

ummm. No they don't. AND they retire at a young age. Why do you think all these retirement liabilities are bankrupting states?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:09PM

From the FCPS.EDU site regarding the VRS (Virginia Retirement System) PDF file:

"Employee or employer contributes 5 percent of the employee’s compensation each month to his or her member contribution account."

Doesn't seem like a free ride, to me.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:15PM

inn the wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ummm. No they don't. AND they retire at a young
> age. Why do you think all these retirement
> liabilities are bankrupting states?

Please read up a bit from the actual benefit books before mis-quoting information. Clearly, there isn't a 100% (both sides) contribution in this case. The employees of the FCPS also contribute. Or, at least they are now. It may not have always been this way, though - and, I suspect in the past, both portions were covered 100% for both sides. For new employees, it's no longer the case.

I'm very much aware of the state retirement funds being "underfunded". In fact, if you take the amount that each state is under water right now with their retirement funds, add in the next 75 years of Social Security funding, the next 75 years of Medicare funding and the current $14 Trillion dollar deficit, you'll come up with approximately $61 Trillion of debt. This is from the book "Broke" by Glenn Beck. Quite an eye-opener.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Zipzapaoom ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:39PM

Inn The Know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the FCPS.EDU site regarding the VRS (Virginia
> Retirement System) PDF file:
>
> "Employee or employer contributes 5 percent of the
> employee’s compensation each month to his or her
> member contribution account."
>
> Doesn't seem like a free ride, to me.


What the hell does "Employee OR employer" even mean? I read it that 5% must be contributed to the VRS but it is up to the school system whether they pay it or make the teacher pay it. You post doesn't prove anything.

From the Virginia Taxpayer's Alliance website:

"The employer rate for the Virginia Retirement System (VRS) is projected to increase from 8.8 to 12.9 percent. In addition, FCPS pays the 5.0 percent employee VRS contribution. This results in a total FCPS
contribution of 17.9 percent compared to 13.8 percent in FY 2010. The employer rate for Fairfax County Employee’s Retirement System (FCERS) is projected to increase from 9.7 percent to 14.2 percent and
the Educational Employees’ Supplementary Retirement System of Fairfax County (ERFC) employer rate is projected to increase from 3.2 percent to 4.0 percent."

So it would seem that Inn the Know is wrong AGAIN.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 03:54PM

http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/documents/proposed/2011/ProposedBudget11.pdf

See Page 62

Year of year FCPS benefits costs increased 19.2%! The bulk of this is for retirement benefits.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: This is why ()
Date: January 06, 2011 04:19PM

One reason the retirement cost is increasing is because this great state declared a pension holiday for the counties last year! Fairfax County did not give nickel to the VRS for this past year. Next year the counties have to start paying back what they didn't pay in this last year due to the holiday (with 7% interest---that's the state rule on the "holiday"). Don't you wish you could get 7% on your loans??? That is why you are seeing the big increase!! The teachers did not get to decide on that holiday----if it had been up to them, there would have been no holiday! This all made it look like McDonnell balanced the state budget. Politics as usual. Teachers lose. So do taxpayers.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Not the whole story by any means ()
Date: January 06, 2011 04:22PM

"From the Virginia Taxpayer's Alliance website:

"The employer rate for the Virginia Retirement System (VRS) is projected to increase from 8.8 to 12.9 percent. In addition, FCPS pays the 5.0 percent employee VRS contribution. This results in a total FCPS
contribution of 17.9 percent compared to 13.8 percent in FY 2010. The employer rate for Fairfax County Employee’s Retirement System (FCERS) is projected to increase from 9.7 percent to 14.2 percent and
the Educational Employees’ Supplementary Retirement System of Fairfax County (ERFC) employer rate is projected to increase from 3.2 percent to 4.0 percent."



Oh, yeah, this is a real unbiased group to take quote from---The Virginia Taxpayers' Alliance??? Hahahahahaha.

The ERFC rate is paid ENTIRELY by the teachers by the way.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 04:28PM

Not the whole story by any means Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, yeah, this is a real unbiased group to take
> quote from---The Virginia Taxpayers' Alliance???
> Hahahahahaha.

It's straight from the FCPS budget. Check the link above.

Go back to complaining about all of the crappy kids, pain in the ass parents, and the SOL's.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Solution ()
Date: January 06, 2011 04:32PM

If you don't want to give teachers a pension or health insurance, are you willing to increase their salaries by, say 25%, so that they can go out on the open market and buy health insurance and fund a 401K?? They CANNOT fund these things without a BIG raise if their benefits are taken away. Unless you don't want college educated teachers anymore. They are willing to work until age 75 if need be, but do you remember the teachers who kept working into old age from when you were a kid? I don't think you get more patience as you age.

Meanwhile China is adding and paying more teachers, more fine arts, more vocational programs and more innovation into their schools. Who do you think will win in this game? How do you think you attract the people who have the ideas and enthusiasm? I know, I know!! By taking away their benefits!! Hurray!

Once we do this, we all go down.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Go to China! ()
Date: January 06, 2011 04:51PM

Solution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don't want to give teachers a pension or
> health insurance, are you willing to increase
> their salaries by, say 25%, so that they can go
> out on the open market and buy health insurance
> and fund a 401K?? They CANNOT fund these things
> without a BIG raise if their benefits are taken
> away. Unless you don't want college educated
> teachers anymore. They are willing to work until
> age 75 if need be, but do you remember the
> teachers who kept working into old age from when
> you were a kid? I don't think you get more
> patience as you age.
>
> Meanwhile China is adding and paying more
> teachers, more fine arts, more vocational programs
> and more innovation into their schools. Who do
> you think will win in this game? How do you think
> you attract the people who have the ideas and
> enthusiasm? I know, I know!! By taking away
> their benefits!! Hurray!
>
> Once we do this, we all go down.


Since when does an AVERAGE worker with a BA degree in English or History from some mediocre college deserve to be paid more?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: sumguy ()
Date: January 06, 2011 04:51PM

That sound like the best plan yet dump the beni's and give them all a raise. The benefits are supposed to offset the lower pay I'm not really seeing that the pay is that low. You should check out this link. The pay is real good considering its for 194 days of work.
Attachments:
FY11-194-day_teacher.pdf

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Anjuli ()
Date: January 06, 2011 07:04PM

I saw on the news the teachers in NJ are thinking about striking. I think they said the average pay is 80, then 10 in bennies....the gov. told them NJ does not have the money for for raises and if they didnt like it they could leave...i was like damn...he is kind of a dick but he was straight up with them. What is the average salary of a teacher in FFX with a masters vs. bs?

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: mediocre pay, mediocre workers ()
Date: January 06, 2011 07:09PM

"Since when does an AVERAGE worker with a BA degree in English or History from some mediocre college deserve to be paid more?"

You're getting AVERAGE because you won't pay them more. The ABOVE AVERAGE are going elsewhere. Don't you think it's time to get some of the ABOVE AVERAGE into teaching?

Also, believe it or not, most teachers have Master's degrees and lots of them are Math, Science, Foreign Language, Music, etc. degrees. And BTW, what's wrong with an English or History degree???? Those people work hard as well.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: January 06, 2011 07:58PM

mediocre pay, mediocre workers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You're getting AVERAGE because you won't pay them
> more. The ABOVE AVERAGE are going elsewhere.
> Don't you think it's time to get some of the ABOVE
> AVERAGE into teaching?
>
> Also, believe it or not, most teachers have
> Master's degrees and lots of them are Math,
> Science, Foreign Language, Music, etc. degrees.
> And BTW, what's wrong with an English or History
> degree???? Those people work hard as well.


+1

I said it earlier in this thread, you get what you pay for.

You want mediocre, pay mediocre and don't give raises.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 08:01PM

mediocre pay, mediocre workers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The ABOVE AVERAGE are going elsewhere.

Such as? Link please.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hard to believe ()
Date: January 06, 2011 08:07PM

They ain't leaving!

From the 'FCPS OPERATIONAL EXPECTATION MONITORING REPORT'

http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/sg/documents/DHRExecutiveSummary.pdf

"99.9% of full-time teaching positions were filled by the opening of school representing
943 new teacher hires.

Aggressive recruiting at 24 colleges and universities and 14 consortium events and
professional conferences resulted in the early employment of 303 highly qualified,
ethnically diverse teachers.

• Two local job fairs were held resulting in 406 interviews and 59 early offers. Principals
rated the quality of the job fair as a 3.60 on a 4-point scale.

For all employees in educational services, the divisionwide turnover of 4.48% is a 2%
decrease from last year and compares favorably with Bureau of Labor Statistics 11.3%.

• Although the overall teacher retention rate is 95% as compared to national average of
97.6%, the turnover rate for new teachers has declined significantly (8%) over a 4-year
period.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Look at the job market now ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:19PM

You have many kids now out of college who would love to teach but cannot find a job. You have many current teachers who thought they would retire but are waiting till the housing maket improves. I don't see how they can complain. If they only want to work 7 1/2 hours a day let them. They can replaced.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Rrrrrrright ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:33PM

Look at the job market now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have many kids now out of college who would
> love to teach but cannot find a job. You have many
> current teachers who thought they would retire but
> are waiting till the housing maket improves. I
> don't see how they can complain. If they only want
> to work 7 1/2 hours a day let them. They can
> replaced.


LMAO @ 7 1/2 hours a day. Like a teacher actually follows their contract hours.

It would be a shitstorm if teachers did a "work-to-the-rule" strike and all of the FCPS teachers actually left after 7 1/2 hours of work.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Adam ()
Date: January 07, 2011 12:45AM

To the douchebag who keeps posting the salary scale
and saying it is good pay for 194 days of work--you are
clueless. My son's teachers are salaried. They
take papers home to grade, have to post assignments
to Blackboard, attend parent meetings at night,serve on committees, deal
with record numbers of special ed students, limited
English proficient students, appease unreasonable,
grade-grubbing parents, etc. I used to be a
teacher and work in private industry for a good small
company. The people I work with aren't even
remotely as educated. My neighbors and I don't
want to see a race to the bottom with low
salaries and low benefits. That's insane! I want
our children to have well compensated, respected,
teachers reaching our kids.
Taxpayers have the money! Explain how
families have 3 or more cars, multiple TVs,
cable television, cell phones for everyone,
videogames, etc. MISPLACED PRIORITIES
and just plain stupidity! I guess everyone
thinks because they had a teacher, they know
what it is like. I can't explain why
Americans value stupidity so much.
> >
> > Now that the Republicans are running things
> they
> > should be able to find a lot of fat to trim.
>
>
> "Now that the Republicans are running things..".
>
> Say what? The last time I looked the Fairfax
> County Board of Supervisors was still 7 Democrats
> and 3 Republicans. And the Fairfax County School
> Board was still majority Democrat-endorsed (SB
> members are not identified by party).
>
> Are you talking about the Republicans' new
> majority in the United States Congress?
> I hate to tell you, dude, but the US Congress has
> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the day-to-day
> operation of Fairfax County Public Schools. FCPS
> is run by the School Board with monies transferred
> from the Board of Supervisors.
>
> Goddamn, I thought I've seen some stupid
> dittoheads, but you take the fucking cake!

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Adam is right ()
Date: January 07, 2011 05:17AM

I agree with Adam but some of the reality is that a good portion of the budget goes to educate Spec Ed, ESOL and kids that are in the county illegaly. The amount of money that goes to these programs is out of this world. The middle class child is losing now because programs have been cut to support the above.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: really ()
Date: January 07, 2011 06:49AM

Look at the job market now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have many kids now out of college who would
> love to teach but cannot find a job. You have many
> current teachers who thought they would retire but
> are waiting till the housing maket improves. I
> don't see how they can complain. If they only want
> to work 7 1/2 hours a day let them. They can
> replaced.


This post is entirely correct, my daughter has several over the hill teachers that can retire but cant sell their houses, in one case the teacher spends a good portion of the class period discussing and showing pictures of the grand kids. Motivated? you get what you pay for? HAH

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: show them the door ()
Date: January 07, 2011 06:52AM

Adam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the douchebag who keeps posting the salary
> scale
> and saying it is good pay for 194 days of
> work--you are
> clueless. My son's teachers are salaried. They
> take papers home to grade, have to post
> assignments
> to Blackboard, attend parent meetings at
> night,serve on committees, deal
> with record numbers of special ed students,
> limited
> English proficient students, appease
> unreasonable,
> grade-grubbing parents, etc.

If they don't like it, they should leave. But looking at the turnover rates above, it looks like being a teacher is still a pretty good job. Only 5% turnover per year. Or they can stay and complain about the crappy pay, kids, parents, SB, etc., and have their union officials make threats.

And I've got some news for you - most college graduates end up in salaried positions, and taking work home and working off hours is a requirement most places - and if it isn't, that private company probably won't be around too long. And those people are working 5X40 to start with, not 7.5 hour days with at least one holiday per month. The 'work to rule' comment from the union official would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: catch up ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:08AM

Apparently the union didnt get the word, work to the rule started at our school about 18 months ago

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:17AM

Adam is right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Adam but some of the reality is that
> a good portion of the budget goes to educate Spec
> Ed, ESOL and kids that are in the county illegaly.
> The amount of money that goes to these programs
> is out of this world. The middle class child is
> losing now because programs have been cut to
> support the above.


Very true. And, not to forget, the free and reduced meal plans that several students seem to qualify for. Plenty of ESOL and illegal alien children are pulled from the normal day-to-day classes to receive special assistance on reading, speech, etc. All of this not only has a major disruption to the normal classroom, but you have to hire additional specialists to work within the school to assist these students that need the extra assistance. The specialists are those who can command higher salaries than the regular teachers.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: hmmm ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:28AM

Despite over 1,000 positions eliminated, the county has announced they are hiring 250 new English as a second language teachers, celebrate diversity but dont expect a pay raise!

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:32AM

Anjuli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I saw on the news the teachers in NJ are thinking
> about striking. I think they said the average pay
> is 80, then 10 in bennies....the gov. told them NJ
> does not have the money for for raises and if they
> didnt like it they could leave...i was like
> damn...he is kind of a dick but he was straight up
> with them. What is the average salary of a
> teacher in FFX with a masters vs. bs?

The state of N.J. will cave in. Nobody has had the guts to make such sweeping cuts. The last time I recall this happening was when President Ronald Reagan fired the Air Traffic Controllers that were on strike. Now, that was a bold move - and sent a message.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: stop comparing apples and oranges ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:50AM

And I've got some news for you - most college graduates end up in salaried positions, and taking work home and working off hours is a requirement most places - and if it isn't, that private company probably won't be around too long. And those people are working 5X40 to start with, not 7.5 hour days with at least one holiday per month. The 'work to rule' comment from the union official would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


Most college graduates end up in salaried positions? By some of the posts here, you would think they are all working at Walmart for hourly pay and dying to get into teaching! So, given this statement, isn't it fair that teachers are salaried with some benefits? I don't think a person who is not a teacher can understand the complexity of a teaching job. Most teachers are completely exhausted at the end of the 7.5 hour day (in which they couldn't just get up from their desks to go to get a coffee, go get a drink or go to the bathroom). The teacher is literally tied to the students in a lock step fashion. People who work in offices do not have nearly the same environment. You cannot compare this at all. There is a reason for the 7.5 hours. There are certain career health issues in teaching, not the least of which is bladder infections and feet problems.

Teaching is a PROFESSIONAL JOB and once you take away pay and benefits, there will be little incentive to go into this profession. In the old, old days they could recruit "old maid women" and pay them little because women in general had few choices back then. My 89 year old mother (who got married late in life and had me late) was one of them. She was definitely an ABOVE AVERAGE teacher and ABOVE AVERAGE mother and I am thankful for her every day. She was also horribly UNDERPAID, but had few choices. Women now have lots of choices (thankfully) and so you are now getting very AVERAGE people in teaching and, sadly, not so many men (it's a crisis really). I'm not saying that men need to make more money than women, but some still have the mentality that they have to provide and families with several children have a hard time with two people outside of the home (with no child care subsidies in this country---we don't make it easy).

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: show them the door ()
Date: January 07, 2011 08:07AM

stop comparing apples and oranges Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think a
> person who is not a teacher can understand the
> complexity of a teaching job. Most teachers are
> completely exhausted at the end of the 7.5 hour
> day (in which they couldn't just get up from their
> desks to go to get a coffee, go get a drink or go
> to the bathroom). The teacher is literally tied
> to the students in a lock step fashion. People
> who work in offices do not have nearly the same
> environment. You cannot compare this at all.
> There is a reason for the 7.5 hours.

This is total BS. First of all, the kids are in school about 7 hours, maybe a little less. In ES at least, the kids are out of the classroom for lunch, recess, gym, art, etc. for at least 1.5 hours a day. Plus the schools have room parents to do every menial task the teacher does not want to do. So teachers are 'teaching' maybe 5 hours a day, which is probably what an office worker gets in in truly productive time in an office when you take out lunch, distractions, useless meetings, etc. Are you saying that it's that challenging to give your complete focus to a job 5 hours a day? There are a lot of professional jobs that require that level of focus - nurses, pilots, lawyers, technical people......

As I said, if they don't like it, they should find another line of work. That is a truly understandable and acceptable way to deal with a work environment you find you do not like.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Zingzangzoom ()
Date: January 07, 2011 08:25AM

mediocre pay, mediocre workers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Since when does an AVERAGE worker with a BA
> degree in English or History from some mediocre
> college deserve to be paid more?"
>
> You're getting AVERAGE because you won't pay them
> more. The ABOVE AVERAGE are going elsewhere.
> Don't you think it's time to get some of the ABOVE
> AVERAGE into teaching?
>
> Also, believe it or not, most teachers have
> Master's degrees and lots of them are Math,
> Science, Foreign Language, Music, etc. degrees.
> And BTW, what's wrong with an English or History
> degree???? Those people work hard as well.


Those who can do, those who can't teach. True then. True now.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Retired Teacher ()
Date: January 07, 2011 09:13AM

I am a retired teacher from FCPS. I have now worked for a gov contractor for a number of years. So, I feel particularly well qualified to comment here.

I make almost double what my highest salary as a teacher was and there isn't a day goes by that I wonder why I didn't do this before. There is so much less stress and the job is significantly less challenging than teaching. Don't get me wrong, I do put in some long hours and there are definately challenges in my current position.

Agreed that I don't have the same time off that I did, but I always worked in some capacity in the summers to supplement my teacher's salary, and I still didn't make the kind of money I do now.

By the way, I went to a small college and got a masters at GMU, so I don't have some super credentials that would set me apart from anyone else.

In summary, teaching is a very difficult job and really underpaid for what it demands. For those of you who think teachers have it made and don't deserve more money, I'd suggest you take a year sabbatical and try teaching in a public school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: please share more details ()
Date: January 07, 2011 09:27AM

Retired Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a retired teacher from FCPS. I have now
> worked for a gov contractor for a number of years.
> So, I feel particularly well qualified to comment
> here.
>
> I make almost double what my highest salary as a
> teacher was and there isn't a day goes by that I
> wonder why I didn't do this before. There is so
> much less stress and the job is significantly less
> challenging than teaching. Don't get me wrong, I
> do put in some long hours and there are definately
> challenges in my current position.
>
> Agreed that I don't have the same time off that I
> did, but I always worked in some capacity in the
> summers to supplement my teacher's salary, and I
> still didn't make the kind of money I do now.
>
> By the way, I went to a small college and got a
> masters at GMU, so I don't have some super
> credentials that would set me apart from anyone
> else.
>
> In summary, teaching is a very difficult job and
> really underpaid for what it demands. For those
> of you who think teachers have it made and don't
> deserve more money, I'd suggest you take a year
> sabbatical and try teaching in a public school.


Could you tell us the following:

How old were you when you retired? How many years of service had you clocked?

What is your annual pension?

What is your current job description?

Thanks, just curious.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Inn The Know ()
Date: January 07, 2011 09:43AM

Well, according to a study that I heard about while driving into work today, maybe we won't have to worry about the raises for the teachers.

Study Results: 84% of the people studied indicated that they would be looking for a new job in 2011.

* I guess a lot of people are not happy with their current work environment and have been "holding on" through the slow down in the economy before jumping ship.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Show him the back of my hand ()
Date: January 07, 2011 10:03AM

"If they only want to work 7 1/2 hours a day let them"

That's what the contract says. The contract is what is legally enforceable, and if someone was disciplined for something off contract that would go to court. Imagine the court fees and litigation time which would be spent on trying to enforce an non-existent standard of performance (ie. not in the contract)

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Show him the back of my hand ()
Date: January 07, 2011 10:13AM

"Are you saying that it's that challenging to give your complete focus to a job 5 hours a day?"

Then you are not grading papers, and you are not planning lessons. If you want to pay someone $40,000 a year to babysit 17 year olds, well, thats a great use of money. . .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Moron ()
Date: January 07, 2011 11:05AM

Zingzangzoom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those who can do, those who can't teach. True
> then. True now.

Congratulations, you just quoted a socialist who argued favorably for eugenics.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Pit o' luv ()
Date: January 07, 2011 12:01PM

Moron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zingzangzoom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those who can do, those who can't teach. True
> > then. True now.
>
> Congratulations, you just quoted a socialist who
> argued favorably for eugenics.

Gee, that criteria doesn't eliminate our current president. Eugenics = abortion on demand. Socialist = government runs everything. Abortion on demand + government runs everything = Barack Hussein Obama. Math even a moron who actually uses the term when he posts can understand.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Retired Teacher ()
Date: January 07, 2011 12:39PM

please share more details Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Retired Teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am a retired teacher from FCPS. I have now
> > worked for a gov contractor for a number of
> years.
> > So, I feel particularly well qualified to
> comment
> > here.
> >
> > I make almost double what my highest salary as
> a
> > teacher was and there isn't a day goes by that
> I
> > wonder why I didn't do this before. There is
> so
> > much less stress and the job is significantly
> less
> > challenging than teaching. Don't get me wrong,
> I
> > do put in some long hours and there are
> definately
> > challenges in my current position.
> >
> > Agreed that I don't have the same time off that
> I
> > did, but I always worked in some capacity in
> the
> > summers to supplement my teacher's salary, and
> I
> > still didn't make the kind of money I do now.
> >
> > By the way, I went to a small college and got a
> > masters at GMU, so I don't have some super
> > credentials that would set me apart from anyone
> > else.
> >
> > In summary, teaching is a very difficult job
> and
> > really underpaid for what it demands. For
> those
> > of you who think teachers have it made and
> don't
> > deserve more money, I'd suggest you take a year
> > sabbatical and try teaching in a public school.
>
>
> Could you tell us the following:
>
> How old were you when you retired? How many years
> of service had you clocked?
>
> What is your annual pension?
>
> What is your current job description?
>
> Thanks, just curious.


I was 56 when I retired and had accumulated nearly 30 years of service.

I am not going to divulge my finances but suffice it to say my pension is not sufficient to live in Fairfax Co.

Current postion is a project manager.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: some calculations ()
Date: January 07, 2011 01:28PM

Retire at 56 with full pension-very nice. Most of us will work 10 years longer than you.

After 30 years of service you were probably making $80,000. The VRS pension should be about $40k per year for LIFE. So for something you contributed zero into, you will collect about $1.5 million over your estimated life expectancy. All of on the taxpayer's back.

I, for one, wish you did take that project manager position. That would be one less person the taxpayer had to take care of.

Let me guess-the "contractor" you work for has something to do with education, right? Did FCPS set you up with one of those cush jobs at Pearon or another education vendor?

You are not a nerosurgeon or a biochemist. You are just an average worker, doing an average job like the rest of us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Dumbass ()
Date: January 07, 2011 01:43PM

Pit o' luv Wrote:
> Gee, that criteria doesn't eliminate our current
> president. Eugenics = abortion on demand.
> Socialist = government runs everything. Abortion
> on demand + government runs everything = Barack
> Hussein Obama. Math even a moron who actually
> uses the term when he posts can understand.

Idiot.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Retired Teacher ()
Date: January 07, 2011 02:26PM

some calculations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Retire at 56 with full pension-very nice. Most of
> us will work 10 years longer than you.
>
> After 30 years of service you were probably making
> $80,000. The VRS pension should be about $40k per
> year for LIFE. So for something you contributed
> zero into, you will collect about $1.5 million
> over your estimated life expectancy. All of on
> the taxpayer's back.
>
> I, for one, wish you did take that project manager
> position. That would be one less person the
> taxpayer had to take care of.
>
> Let me guess-the "contractor" you work for has
> something to do with education, right? Did FCPS
> set you up with one of those cush jobs at Pearon
> or another education vendor?
>
> You are not a nerosurgeon or a biochemist. You
> are just an average worker, doing an average job
> like the rest of us.



First of all, you don't know what you're talking about!

I contributed to the VRS and it is nowhere near 40K a year! I would guess that any of you who have some kind of retirement plan either through your job or strictly peronally managed you could retire at 55 with a better retirement than I have.

Clearly, you are a product of FCPS because your reading comprehenion is very poor. I have been working since I retired, found another job within a few weeks. And, I hope you don't gamble because you'd be big loser. FCPS did not set me up with anything and the contractor has nothing to do with education. I got the job on my own.

Let's be clear about something, I am not a big fan of FCPS. I think the central administration is totally corrupt and so out of touch with reality that they have very little idea what educaiton is all about. They set grandiose policy then tell the public what a wonderful job they are doing. If they spent as much time on the nuts and bolts of education as they did on PR they might be doing a better job. By and large teachers are very dedicated and do a good job, like any line of work there is probably 5 or 10% that shouldn't be there.

If you think teachers are overpaid, take a year or two sabbatical and be a teacher. Unless you've done the job you have no idea.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Bill N ()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:39PM

Retired Teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's be clear about something, I am not a big fan
> of FCPS. I think the central administration is
> totally corrupt and so out of touch with reality
> that they have very little idea what educaiton is
> all about. They set grandiose policy then tell
> the public what a wonderful job they are doing.
> If they spent as much time on the nuts and bolts
> of education as they did on PR they might be doing
> a better job. By and large teachers are very
> dedicated and do a good job, like any line of work
> there is probably 5 or 10% that shouldn't be
> there.
>
> If you think teachers are overpaid, take a year or
> two sabbatical and be a teacher. Unless you've
> done the job you have no idea.

First, I agree with you about the administration of FCPS. Even friends of mine who work in it will say that every kid in Fairfax County's schools could suddenly disappear and it would take the administrtion a month to find out about it. The problem is of course that while many of the people in administration are very good at what they do, what they do is not working to insure that each kid has the highest quality education.

Second, I also agree that the overwhelming majority of teachers are very dedicated and do a good job. My kids had a few dolts over the years, and a few more that the best that can be said for them is that they didn't do much harm. However for the most part my kids have had hard working teachers who care about what they teach and care about their students. Frankly if the teachers were as bad as some have indicated on this forum, I think that would be an argument in favor of raising pay, at least for new hires.

Third, I agree that many teachers can take their skills and make more money, even in this economy.

Where we disagree is I do not see how this relates to whether teachers are underpaid. Over the years most of my kids' best teachers have been relatively fresh out of college, and many lacked advanced degrees. I still see the same level of competence, enthusiasm and willingness to work hard today as I saw a few years ago. To me that indicates that the current salary scales are not inhibiting the ability of Fairfax County to recruit high quality teachers. It also does not appear that Fairfax County is getting lower quality teachers than other jurisdictions in this area.

To me this is the standard for measuring whether the compensation levels are adequate. So long as Fairfax County can continue to recruit teachers of sufficient quality and retain a sufficient number of good experienced tachers on their existing pay scales, those pay scales are adequate. When the ability to recruit or retain suffers it is time to raise the pay. Simple market economics.

Finally I do agree that it says something that we are paying teachers far less than we pay others with jobs that are far less important to our societal benefit. Forunately what that is saying is that Fairfax County is blessed to have such a large pool of candidates who think the job is sufficiently important and fulfilling that they are personally willing to take the job for the lower pay rather than forgoing it for higher paying alternatives. If those folks ever decide to forget personal fulfillment or societal good and simply "go for the money", we're screwed. Of course the same can be said for a variety of other equally important jobs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Pit o' joy ()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:50PM

Dumbass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pit o' luv Wrote:
> > Gee, that criteria doesn't eliminate our
> current
> > president. Eugenics = abortion on demand.
> > Socialist = government runs everything.
> Abortion
> > on demand + government runs everything = Barack
> > Hussein Obama. Math even a moron who actually
> > uses the term when he posts can understand.
>
> Idiot.


From a dumbass, is that considered a complement?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: Retired Teacher ()
Date: January 07, 2011 04:21PM

Bill N, you make a very good point about market economics I thought the same thing for many years when I'd wonder why salaries were relatively low. Clearly there are people that are willing to take the job for what they get, so be it.

Another example of valuable administrators are is nobody notices if the principal isn't there but all hell breaks loose if a secretary is out.

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Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: FEA Pres. on Fox 5 ()
Date: January 07, 2011 05:17PM

Fairfax Education Association President Michael Hairston was on Fox 5 this morning discussing pay raises, teacher roles, work-to-the-rule, etc.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/mornings/teachers-threaten-to-stop-working-overtime-010711

No opinion attached; just sharing the info.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: show them the door ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:19PM

Show him the back of my hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If they only want to work 7 1/2 hours a day let
> them"
>
> That's what the contract says. The contract is
> what is legally enforceable, and if someone was
> disciplined for something off contract that would
> go to court. Imagine the court fees and litigation
> time which would be spent on trying to enforce an
> non-existent standard of performance (ie. not in
> the contract)

Really? So the next time some teacher is getting disciplined for sexting or whatever with a student, the union's defense will be that it happened after the 7.5 hour day was complete? Please let me know how that works out. Sounds like a great defense.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: show them the door ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:30PM

FEA Pres. on Fox 5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax Education Association President Michael
> Hairston was on Fox 5 this morning discussing pay
> raises, teacher roles, work-to-the-rule, etc.
>
> http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/mornings/teachers-threa
> ten-to-stop-working-overtime-010711
>
> No opinion attached; just sharing the info.

What a clown! I lost count of the ..uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh..... So the FCPS teachers all got together and decided this knucklehead was the best person to effectively communicate their message? On that decision alone they don't deserve a raise. And teachers are working 10 - 12 hours per day? NFW.

Go ahead, work to rule. I'm not sure anyone would notice the difference.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Pay Raise!
Posted by: oberver ()
Date: January 07, 2011 07:37PM

While $44,000 might not seem exorbitant--it is a beginning salary with lots of benefits. Few college graduates today are getting big salaries for their first year of work. (This may have been different a few years ago.) Many are doing temp work and waiting tables--even here in Fairfax. These are kids who went to "good" colleges and made good grades. I know several myself.

As a somewhat senior person who taught a number of years ago in the projects, I do appreciate that teaching is a stressful job. However, there are many stressful jobs in the world. Dealing with kids can be very challenging--especially when the home is not supportive. This can occur in poverty and in affluent homes. All families have issues.

When I started teaching (elem. school), we were required to eat with the children (sit at the table with them--not the teacher's table--that was reserved for the specialists!) We had few special teachers and there were many days that I had NO BREAK at all. Things have improved over the years and teachers do deserve a lunch break--and get one. Here in Fairfax, they have planning time on Mondays and I am sure they all get a break of some type during the day. (The exception may be the K teachers with two sessions of kindergarten.) And, if Fairfax cancelled Monday afternoon work time, the teachers would have more planning time on the other days of the week.

I do not question that teachers deserve a good salary. However, we are in a very different economy than five years ago. It appears that Fairfax has an ample supply of applicants. I do not believe that we are losing the "best". In fact, I question that our illustrious administrators have the ability to know how to choose the best from a group--no matter what the salary. I'm not sure they know a good teacher when they see one. That said, for the most part, my children had good teachers. I was not so impressed with the administrators.

Personally, I think that Fairfax needs to start at the top with a do over. The Supe and most SB members should go.

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