I'm up for supporting our schools as much as the next guy, but the new bond ref includes some pretty eye opening figures. They are asking for 22 MILLION just for PLANNING of a new Laurel Hill elementary school, and they are asking for an ADDITIONAL 5 million to go towards 'additional planning' for three other schools, which probably got their 'planning' funds on a previous bond. At what point do we say that's too much?

What the hell is the school going to cost if 'planning' is 22 mil? I get the feeling that the school board is putting anything they can think of out there because they know Fairfax County residents ALWAYS overwhelmingly approve school bonds.

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm up for supporting our schools as much as the
> next guy, but the new bond ref includes some
> pretty eye opening figures. They are asking for 22
> MILLION just for PLANNING of a new Laurel Hill
> elementary school, and they are asking for an
> ADDITIONAL 5 million to go towards 'additional
> planning' for three other schools, which probably
> got their 'planning' funds on a previous bond. At
> what point do we say that's too much?
>
> What the hell is the school going to cost if
> 'planning' is 22 mil? I get the feeling that the
> school board is putting anything they can think of
> out there because they know Fairfax County
> residents ALWAYS overwhelmingly approve school
> bonds.

I must be reading a different set of documents since everything reference to the $22M for Laurel Hill refers to it as construction costs, not planning. If there is a line item which catches my attention it is the $38.6M needed to finish other projects due to inflation (poor planning?). I am pretty sure that the planning and related costs for Laurel Hill are either part of the annual operating budget or incorporated in an earlier bond.

I found the information in a pamphlet that was handed out at a back to school night. It's the "Bond Referendum Facts" booklet. It does list the $22 mil under the heading of New Construction but under the New Elementary Schools it lists
"Laurel Hill site (planning) $22 mill"

Later in the booklet it explains Funding for Planning and specifically states "Putting funds for project planning into one bond issue and actual construction money into a later bond issue allows timely implementation of the projects without committing the county's bonding authority for construction costs earlier than necessary."

But I still have a problem with 22 mil for planning of one elementary school.

Selling bonds is a more suburban way of saying deficit spending. It makes people feel good that they are doing it for schools and transportation. What people should consider, however, is the debt they are levying upon future generations of Fairfax citizens that may be their children. Additionally, did anyone notice that the school bond is also going to be used for the servicing of county vehicles? Do you realize that the County is asking you to take out a debt to service an item that will not even be in existence when the debt is fully paid off? Put simply, imagine taking 20 years to payoff a car that only lasted 10 before it failed. It truly boggles the mind. In Virginia, the County is required to bay back all bonds on time NO MATTER WHAT. If the county cannot meet that obligation, it is required to raise real estate taxes or the state will withhold revenue to avoid default. Given the fact that values of homes are slipping and will likely drop even further means your real estate taxes will go up. Finally, the voters willingness to sign over blank checks to the County Board has given them the arrogance to package bonds into the $100s of millions. Voters should have more bonds at lower values to choose from if there are going to be any at all.

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the hell is the school going to cost if
> 'planning' is 22 mil? I get the feeling that the
> school board is putting anything they can think of
> out there because they know Fairfax County
> residents ALWAYS overwhelmingly approve school
> bonds.


You really hit the nail on the head with this one. Im fed up with constant
yammering for more...more...more... and its always "for the children" with
violins in the background. HOOEY!

"for the children" -- exactly, let us defer our overspending on our children. They can go to nice new scholls and then get out only to have a county that is hugely in debt and their property taxes overburdensome. So, you either chase the children away after they go to a nice new school or they can't have as good a life as their parents because the tax rate is outrageous. Yes, for the children.

School bonds are like Firefighters and Jerry's Kids... everybody gets the warm fuzzies. Has a school bond issue ever failed? I can't remember one.

I hope they buy some school buses with the dough...there are still '89s with over 300K rattling around out there.

Don't waste your time voting no on any school bond, they always pass. You have two types voting yes, yuppie parents who think their kids need everything and welfare freeloaders who want only the best especially since someone else is paying for it.
People who always vote yes on bonds are the same ones who overspend on their credit cards. They think it is magic money you never have to pay back.

Does anyone else think it's odd that the school system has increased funding by 600 million dollars over the last 4 years and there has been no increase in students? Seems bizarre to me.

Good observations. It's time for supporters of the bond initiative(s) to step forward and present the FACTS, so the voters can make intelligence decisions on the issues--in addition to a handful of shrewd adults in this forum, there are x number of "observers." Public officials, school teachers, 18-year-old voters, et al. This forum is an influential form of communications among Fairfax citizens. Sadly, the small percentage of people that actually vote on these bonds, may not truly reflect the majority's will...

It is shameless to propose propose a half BILLION dollar worth of School ($365,200,000.00) and Transportation ($110,000,000.00) Bonds.

This is after equally staggering School Bonds in 2005 ($246,325,000.00), 2003 ($290,610,000.00), 2001 ($377,955,000.00),1999 ($297,205,000.00), 1997 ($232,850,000.00), 1995 ($204,050,000.00) etc..... Total Prior Bonds = $1,648,995.00 (1.7 BILLION !!!!!) This is outrageous!

This current Fairfax County Administration is OUT OF CONTROL and they are going to tax us to the ground!

I am voting NO based on what they have done in past renovations. They are not renovations they are rebuilds. A lot of money on this referendum is for prior rebuilding projects. Planning money??? They need so much because they totally chnage shools. Why does Laurel Hill need 22 million when they already have blue prints? Furthermore - an addition at Langley instead of inclusion in a boundary change? TJ?

No one gets full information so why should I pay for it? Why not put TJ in other schools? What about the Lake Braddock addition they are not using? Why did they build at Jackson only to send kids from Vienna including Hunter Mill?

I'm a transplant from the midwest and I want more money for the schools NOW! while my children are still attending. In 5 more years my kids will be out of school, and I will be moving back home. What do I care if Fairfax county is mired in debt 20 years from now?? I'll be LOOOONG gone. you people will be the bag-holders. Its so funny that this place is geared toward out of towners like me, while pissing all over the long term residents. I've never seen anything like it.. Where I'm from, the old timers come first, and new comers get the cold shoulder. Its literally opposite here... downright funny. What incentive do I have to vote no??? None!! Its literally free money for my kids.. Where I'm from, usually these bonds get turned down.. because most of the people living there realize they'll eventually have to payup. Fairfax is just a foreigner infested temporary flop house. Its a gold rush region.. Come, stake your claim, piss on the carpet, leave. Anyone else still around after the rush are just suckers!

Kansas,

While your post is mostly true, you did ask one important question: "What incentive do I have to vote no???" The simple answer is, if you own a house, you have a great deal of incentive. With property values declining, and spending increasing by the FFX county gov't, your taxes will go up. When the taxes go up, the real estate prices will again drop further.

You also stated: "Anyone else still around after the rush are just suckers!" I hate to break it to you, but YOU are around AFTER the rush. Look around. You are in the decline. The longer you stay, the more you lose in taxes and home value. Looks like they are now letting the hayseed dipshit morons leave Kansas now, rather than making them stay.

I tend to agree with the second "Fairfax Citizen's" post this date. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, or a Machiavellian technique to obtain credibility by association. In any event, this thread as well as other threads in the Underground really make one think about politics involved and whether the educational process really needs this money. As others have posted, it's a foregone conclusion that the bond issue will pass. I would vote NO by the information posted and all the questions left unanswered. Another case of following the money trail--who really profits from the planning, studies, construction, etc.

Money being spent is really just an illusion for "progress being made". Look at Cuba for instance. The schools operate on peanuts, yet have something like a 90% literacy rate. Kids who advance, are those that have parents that care, and whose peers share a similar upbringing. Kids don't need fancy 100K classrooms to learn.

FCPS head of faciltes Tisdadt wrote a document about scope of renovations. They haven't been renovating- new electrical, plumbing, HVAC, windows, surfaces [floors], lockers, some schools get walls, etc. They have been completely changing the buildings whether or not they need to be scrapped.

Then they built additions and added square footage where they did not have students- henceforth some unpopular boundary processes. As for TJ, they want a bump up on work as do the people in South County who have been promised a new middle school ... FCPS built an addition at Lake braddock rather than make South County larger -- also does not use Mount Vernon [renovated].

Like South Lakes got a new art wing - addition? ... I guess that is why there are massive planning fees plus by dumping more money into planning they can start jobs earlier. I guess they aren't worried about subsequent referendums failing. When they do new construction they have stock plans so I'm very confused about planning money there .

Fairfax used to vote NO on these bonds upon occasion as per Tisdadt's documnet:
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/ecabb7e97b0992ab85256e56000c1bea/b49d830ae60c0a99852572eb005e57cc/$FILE/Renovation%20Options%20SB%20Session%20Final.pdf

VOTE NO TO THE BOND

DO NOT VOTE FOR stuPID GIBSON

DO NOT VOTE FOR KATHY SMITH

THEY ARE NOT GOOD FOR OUR FAMILIES

Of coures Cuba does better than Fairfax. They just teach the basics. The students who are destined to fail through laziness know they will be picking sugarcane the rest of their lives. The kids here depend on Hillary socialist tactics of the government always taking care of you. They dont go into why Johnny has two dads or how to feel good about yourself even though you are stupid.

School bonds always pass for the same reason people are in trouble over mortgage payments, they do not plan for the future and just sign it away on a dotted line or in this case a yes vote.

As bad as the post from Kansas was he is exactly right. Permanent residents of Fairfax will be left holding the bag in ten to twenty years.

Some really cute lady knocked on my door asking me to vote for Chap Peterson. Good enough for me.

Let me start by saying I voted for the school bond referendum and I have three children: ages 6, 4, and 2.

In case you all didn't know, the school bond referendums have not always passed:
A) June 1972 - $54.9M was shot down
B) Nov 1974 - $60M was shot down
C) June 1975 - $36M for basic schools, $6.4M for A/C, and $1.22M for gyms was shot down
D) Juen 1977 - $5.145M for A/C was shot down.


The $22million listed as for planning in the "New Construction" section of the in the Bond Facts had a typo. The fact book was corrected online but the printed copies were screwed up - http://www.fcps.edu/news/bond/2007bondbook.pdf. The funding for planning the Lauren Hill Elementary School was included in the 2005 School Bond Referendum.

The new elementary school at Laurel Hill is badly needed as is the new elementary school at the Lacey Site. Several school in the Falls Church and Annandale area closed over the years as the general population aged: Devonshire Elementary, Whittier Intermediate(this property sold to developers around 1990 or so and known prior to 1968 as Falls Church High School - the old Falls Church High School), Willston Elementary, James Lee Elementary, Walnut Hill Elementary, Annandale Elementary, Masonville Elementary, Chapel Square Elementary, Lincolnia Elementary, Edsall Park Elementary. Countywide - the school system has calculated that over 180 new classrooms are needed.

The $50 million for the bus facility doesn't count towards the $155 million per year cap on capital improvement projects. The $50 million will enlarge the facility and make the facility more efficient. Fairfax County doesn't have enough school buses as it is and as a result, it is common to see high school students waiting at their bus stops at 6:30 a.m. in the morning. Many buses are used for three or four different runs. The county needs more buses and bus drivers but will probably run into a labor disagreement with the bus drivers if the county tries to reduced the hours of the bus drivers from full-time or almost full-time back to the part-time it was years ago.

My oldest daughter's elementary school is one of the several on the 2007 Bond Referendum that will be renovated. Back in 1980, there wasn't a gym and the school probably didn't have air conditioning. The renovation my daughter's school received in 1980 is substandard - the ventilation system is very loud.
I graduated from a Fairfax County Public School high school in 1984 and we didn't have air conditioning. When there was a really hot day, we were sent home early.

The $315 million (for two years) is more than twice the $155 million/year cap but the 2005 bond was for $246 million which was under the $130 million/year cap. These amounts really seem like big chunks of dough. However, when one considers that there are over 160,000 students in FCPS system, the CIP budget amount to less than $1,000 per student per year. The amount spent in the schools operation fund is over $12,000 per student per year.

I am also very aware that many residents in the county have seen their property tax go up drastically in the last several years even though the tax rate has come down. A high home value when you sell is important but unfortunately we have to reinvest in our infrastructure along the way.

I have a few questions:

1) How many trailers or modular classrooms is an acceptable number to have outside of each elementary school?

2) Should all the schools have a reliable HVAC system?

3) Should it be central or should we have older schools with window units?

4) How loud inside the classrooms should the ventilation system be?

5) In the future, if we are to reject the school bond based on the way the schools are being managed, which school system are we supposed to use as a role model for how the FCPS schools should be managed?

6) What is the bond rating for that locality?

7) How much money is spent for capital improvements per student per year?

8) How much of that capital improvement budget is paid for by bonds?

9) How good are their public schools?

10) How large is that public school system?

11) How fast is that county growing economically?

12) How much have real estate prices in that locality gone up in the last 30 years?

13) What is the average home value in that locality?

14) What is the tax rate in that locality?