Question for you guys. So i unlock phones on craigslist and meet at fair oaks to perform the unlocking and jailbreaking service listed on craigslist. As i finished with two of the unlocks i was working on i was pulled to the side and question by undercover cops not in uniform. they told me that they had been watching what i do and told me that i have been doing business on private property with out a license. they had asked me some questions and then proceeded to take my iPhone and my laptop and said that since i used them in my business that they would confiscate those items because they were associated with my business. the citation says solication without a license 31-2-1 and i was told that i would have to show up to court and pay a fine. so the question is did they have the legal right to take any of my personal property for evidence? if convicted what would i be looking at and do they have the right to use any evidence found on my laptop or phone against me even if not related to the citation.

A lot depends on the info they observed ie. what you told passing strangers.
If you are found guilty and pay the fine, then they will have to return them.
A decent lawyer probably can get them back quickly.

When you do get them back; either wipe the harddrives several times or replace them (removing the old drives from your property and possesion ASAP.
It's not that uncommon for them to come back with a warrant because they claim latter that child porn or something was found on the copy they made....

PS you should always use good encryp on your drives.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 12:26AM by chuckhoffmann.

Bystander Wrote:
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>
> PS you should always use good encryp on your
> drives.


Very good advice, actually. People who are out and about with laptops always face the possibility of losing such a device. Proper encryption is key. Also, the same goes for those USB thumb drives, too.

Don't be fooled by what losing one will do to you. If you remember, back in the summer, they arrested that pedophile in Maryland because he left his memory card from his digital camera on the counter of a convenience store. No, I'm not supporting pedophiles - as I feel they should be castrated. However, just leaving that memory card behind was all the evidence that was needed to reel him in and send him to the penitentiary for some "good times" when the lights get turned out.

i was stopped by three officers that were wearing plain clothing. as soon as i was walking she started pushing me to a hallway behind doors. she told me what they saw me doing, people would come up to me that looked like they didnt know me, then saw them give me their phone, and then take money after service was performed. after that everyone kept asking me questions about what i was doing, and had a copy of the ad that i put on craigslist picking certain things out of it trying to make me look like im doing something serious. one of the cops said that we are taking your phone and laptop because they were used with my business. i had my laptop in a backpack on my back and they took my laptop out of it. now i dont know if they were allowed to do that. they only cited me for solicitation without a license and never took me to the station. they told me since i was a local of fairfax they wont arrest me. so did they actually have the right to take anything from me?

Unfortunately, you will need a lawyer to fight this stupid charge. Also, unfortunate is that the activity you describe does, in fact, fall under the definition of solicitation per the county ordinance.

"Solicit and solicitation mean to operate from a temporary stand, display or similar facility, or to travel from house to house, door to door, street to street, or from place to place taking or attempting to take orders for sale of goods, wares or merchandise, subscriptions, personal property of any nature whatsoever for future delivery, or for services to be furnished or performed in the future, whether or not responding to appointments prearranged by telephone, telegraph, correspondence or other means of communication."

It's the bit about appointments that gets you here. So, as a minimum they could find you guilty of soliciting without a license. If the cops observed you performing your "service" using your iPhone and laptop then they, sadly, had sufficient grounds to seize them. These cops fall under the category of dickheads for seizing things for this kind of infraction but I guess since they weren't doing such a great job of finding the serial burglar they decided to get you instead.

You will get your property back - Sooner rather than later if you get a lawyer.

Oh, and if they come knocking on your door at 4am you'll know they found that kiddie porn on your laptop.

Good luck.

welcome comrade to my country. land of the free and home of the brave my ass.

A business license would have stopped this before it happened.

Not sure why so many resources were dedicated to this, though - seems like gross overkill for a slap-on-the-wrist conviction possibility.

You should be forced to share a jail cell with chuck Hoffmann.

i believe you only need a business license in ffxco if you earn more than 10k a year. check with DTA. citation is prob regarding working on private property.

Or perhaps they were simply bad guys robbing someone - I would have asked for a uniformed officer present.

i never made more than $2200 so i guess im good under the no business license. but as far as anything else not sure. the woman who told me what was going on was wearing a badge. is 31-2-1 a valid law code? i cant seem to find it anywhere. i plan on getting a lawyer for sure.

They were probably on to you via observation by mall security. See those bored-looking people at kiosks trying to sell phone bling and crap? There are fees paid for the space. So while they are trying to make a living, some idiot is doing business in the same space without the fee, which makes the vendors at the mall angry.

Next time meet up somewhere where no one will look twice at what you are doing or care in the slightest, like an area McDonald's or something.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

whtathefcuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is 31-2-1 a
> valid law code? i cant seem to find it anywhere. i
> plan on getting a lawyer for sure.

You definitely need a lawyer to help you. Because when I Google your thread title without the question marks, a page leading directly to the FFx County Code you broke comes up, like the second link. Fail.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

32-2-1 is a valid law in Fairfax County. If you are going to have a business in the sort of thing you do you need to be more discrete. Malls get watched pretty carefully and when they see someone consistently going to the same place and doing business there they get suspicious. You are better off picking different random places to meet people (e.g., Starbucks, Panera, etc.). These places don't mind because most likely you will buy something sit there for a few minutes and then move on.

Of course, you can apply for a business license for $20 and should be good. However, they do get to check your records.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They were probably on to you via observation by
> mall security. See those bored-looking people at
> kiosks trying to sell phone bling and crap? There
> are fees paid for the space. So while they are
> trying to make a living, some idiot is doing
> business in the same space without the fee, which
> makes the vendors at the mall angry.
>
> Next time meet up somewhere where no one will look
> twice at what you are doing or care in the
> slightest, like an area McDonald's or something.

Yeah, McD's would have been a better spot. Really....

There are two separate "licenses", and we may be confusing them. The first is a business license. I don't do business in Fairfax, but it is my understanding that the county does not require them for people who have businesses located in Fairfax which gross under $10,000. The second is a peddler's license. This is apparently the statute the OP is accused of violating. I do not see where there is an exception to this statute for sales under $10k.

The fact that you do not have a peddler's license does not mean that you violated the statute. Here is frankly where you may need a lawyer. The language of the Code can be interpreted differently, and it is possible that your business model might not fit the court's interpretation.

The question you need to ask first is whether it is to your advantage to contest this charge. Whether you are guilty of this charge or not is just one of the factors. One factor is whether your enterprise is guilty of some other violation which would be exposed in your defense. For example if you do not report the income from this activity on your income tax returns, your defense on the peddling charge might expose your income tax violations. Also remember that your activity might violate some Federal patent or copyright laws. Another factor would be the cost of defending against the charge relative to the benefit of being cleared. You are not going to find a lawyer who will take your case for under $500. You probably cannot find a good one who will take it for under $1,000. Those fees will be payable regardless of whether you win or lose, and you cannot recover those fees if you do win. If the penalty will only be a fine and you can recover the seized property after trial (it is evidence at this stage), it might not make sense to defend against the charge.

My guess is that the peddler's license charge is simply a cover. What probably has happened is that the mall managers don't want people using their facility to sell goods and services without paying rent, and they have asked the police to help out. The police could use trespass laws to do this, but the mall manager doesn't want this done. (It would require a mall employee to testify at the trial, and the mall would come out being the "bad guy".) So instead the police use violation of the peddler's license ordinance, knowing that very few people have them.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/consumer/licensing.htm

i think it's $35 to get a license. also, i believe it's a $1000 fine if you get caught without one.

solicitors licenses are generally issued re: home solicitation sales act.

Section 31-2-1. - Licenses required; surrender of revoked or suspended licenses.

It shall be unlawful for any canvasser, peddler, or solicitor to engage in such business or act within the meaning and application of this Chapter within the County without first obtaining a license therefor in compliance with the provisions of this Article. However, a person may obtain a promoter's license in accordance with the provisions set forth in Section 31-2-4 to sponsor an arts and crafts show where peddlers, itinerant merchants, or solicitors may engage in business without obtaining separate licenses for each peddler, itinerant merchant, or solicitor who participates in that show. Any license issued pursuant to this Chapter shall remain the property of Fairfax County, Virginia, and upon written notification from the Director, any person who has been issued a license which has been suspended or revoked shall surrender and return that license to the Department. (2-18-70; 1961 Code, § 18-3; 16-73-31; 22-84-31; 10-93-31, § 1.)

Call the SRIS law firm in FFX, Williamsburg Court, ASAP.

They know how to get your stuff back.

I ran escorts on CL until CL stopped.

FFX PD raided me, one of the girls was sloppy with things.

But encrypted Linux to the rescue. Police scratched their asses over that.

SRIS' lawyers knew how to get it all back and that was the end of it.

Fair Oaks mall used to have some real stick-up the ass policy enforcement. I was pulled aside quite a few years ago by the mall cops for wearing a bandanna underneath a baseball cap, because they said that "A lot of gangs wear bandannas", and so they requested that I take it off. lol, wtf. The most retarded part about the whole thing, is that a whole group of black girls wearing matching colored bandannas went walking by on the other side of the area, and the guard didn't say shit to them (They were probably an actual gang too, haha). I couldn't help but think how stupid it all was, and I'd never been jostled anywhere else. Needless to say, the actual people jacking shit from stores and causing problems were probably never even stopped. I finally went back to Fair Oaks about four years ago, and I've had no problems since.

Bottom line, though, Fair Oaks has traditionally had some of the strictest security snooping.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

You may want to find a better area to peddle your services. At this time of year, the major shopping malls in the county, are operating with members of the police CAT squad in place.

Typical of our incompetent,over staffed Fairfax County Police department. This show improvement though, this time they didn't illegally shoot & kill a eye doctor,shoot & kill a guy allegedly stealing flowers, shoot & kill a unarmed retarded man for having a mental breakdown, or run RED LIGHTS without sirens and kill a school teacher. Call you supervisors and demand that they support further layoffs of officers, we have too many sitting around trying to justify their employment.

With respect to your "crime" I believe you will have no problem beating this, as you were charged inappropriately. The anti-solicitation ordinance is related to door to door sales. What you were doing is no different then a salesman meeting a customer in the food court and writing a order. There is no charge for doing a business transaction at a place of public accommodation. Happens all the time, the last three ad reps/Insurance agents I have had meetings with were at food courts, Starbucks or other such places. Many companies have rules against meeting in homes and many businesses are conduct from home based offices & mini-storage facilities.

If you had refused to leave when asked by someone in charge of the facility (the police aren't legally able to do this) and refused then you could have been charged with trespassing at most.


Get an attorney. If they searched your computer I think you may have a possible lawsuit for an illegal search. I also think I would do further business at a public library or in the car at a shopping center. Most local sub shops won't mind you conducting business in their place. Just order a soda or coffee.

Personally I would go to court by myself and see if the prosecutor is planning on pursuing the matter, my guess is they won't. If they are, I would invoke my right to counsel and ask for times to get an attorney. If the cop isn't there on the returm date ask for a dismissal (complaining witness not there). The thing you have going for you is most Fairfax County cops are total idiots.

I doubt the "cops" were cops.

A mall cop can't issue a citation as far as I know. They may be able to hand over a piece of paper from the mall attempting to collect a fine of some kind, even giving that law as the reason, but they can't level criminal charges and I doubt they could seize his stuff.

well from inside sources at the mall it looks like these cops were setting me up. i dont know why they would do such a thing since i wasnt doing anything illegal. if i had been i dont understand why they didnt say anything to me, i would have just stopped. but im assuming that since they had been running a investigation on me they probably got a warrant to seize my stuff, i hope not but thats what it looks like. im looking for lawyers and plan to get a business license and hope i can get all my stuff back. so from what i said what do you guys think now? am i fucked?

Who was the cop?

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 12:28AM by chuckhoffmann.

well im looking for a lawyer asap, do you think it might be possible to have the seized items returned before trial, also would i be able to get the cops for entrapment since they might have sent someone to set me up.

No wonder you got caught. There is no entrapment here even if the cops did send someone to you. From everything you wrote you are guilty as charged as unfair as that may seem. You can probably get your seized items back before trial but that depends on whether they need to rely on that as evidence or not.

I don't know what the fine is for this violation but if it is steep your lawyer may be able to get you a plea bargain for a lesser charge. Don't make the case more complicated than it is. Get the lawyer. Pay the money. Do your business more discretely in the future.

Why don't you ply your trade at Landmark or Springfield Mall? They'd probably welcome anyone present isn't fighting or stealing something. Both have really bored Santas right now, doing zero business, I might add.

my sis works at the mall too, just lately she said that she might think they are taking pictures of her since she saw the same person snap a shot. do you think this might be possible and if they are what that might mean?

i meant to say that she saw the same person take picures two different times

Tell your sister to take a picture of THEM, then call the real cops and tell them she thinks someone is stalking her.

So Mohamed, I see you plead no contest. Did you ever get your shit back?

What happens if a person gets busted by a undercover cop and is taken to the central police office and questioned , and gets a "No solicitors License" for selling out of her car, purses that are not from the real brand name ? They took all related material and a note book where there was activity of the sales on credit to customers. Can the merchandise be returnable and some money that were confiscate my the cops ?
What can happen to this woman on the court date? Will she need a lawyer to help her out. ? Thanks

they had asked me some questions and then proceeded to take my iPhone and my laptop and said (my ass)


you've been visited by theifs who talked you out of your stuff. because it is over $2,000 you should sue quickly.

------------------------------
no even a judge cannot seize money or materials until AFTER a verdict

that is the law in any real lawbook. they lied.

(except in public safety or probable flight)

for evidence ABSOLUTELY NOT. there are many rules on that. and you 'top can easily be considered legal papers

the cross-litigants (prosecution) are never allowed exclusive or unwatched access to legal materials: because they are well known to cheat like all hell.

without a warrant absolutely not.

your lawyer supposedly must share it. however the county cheats and doesn't share with your lawyer so i'd expect your lawyer to be wary of the bastards.

sump pump Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, you will need a lawyer to fight
> this stupid charge. Also, unfortunate is that the
> activity you describe does, in fact, fall under
> the definition of solicitation per the county
> ordinance.
>
> "Solicit and solicitation mean to operate from a
> temporary stand, display or similar facility, or
> to travel from house to house, door to door,
> street to street, or from place to place taking or
> attempting to take orders for sale of goods, wares
> or merchandise, subscriptions, personal property
> of any nature whatsoever for future delivery, or
> for services to be furnished or performed in the
> future, whether or not responding to appointments
> prearranged by telephone, telegraph,
> correspondence or other means of communication."

Is he taking orders for a future service to be performed?
Sounded to me like he was merely performing a service that had been arranged via Craiglist. "Solicit" is about standing on the private property and...ummm...SOLICITING...future business. He wasn't doing
that. He was simply meeting someone at a prearranged place to perform
a service for them. So he could be told not to do that anymore,
and to perhaps never come back there for any reason. But that has
nothing to do with the code you cited.

Looks like dude makes a living unlocking stolen phones and he is whining about the cops busting him? And people are defending him? Ha. Or did I misread something....