On a whim I checked out Landmark Mall this evening. I hadn't been there since the mid-1990s. I was shocked -- what happened to the place? Most of the national chain stores, as well as an anchor, are gone. In their place are dollar stores(!), one-off ghetto clothing retailers, furniture stores that cater to the lower class, and even a mattress store. Many stores that were working had cheap poster-board signage and hadn't rebuilt the space since the prior tenant left. Whole stretches of corridors were nothing but empty storefronts. There were very few people there, making the empty space feel unsafe. The most action was the families using the soft play area. And the two isolated store fronts now serving as dance class areas. Surprisingly, the mall itself looked good -- in good condition, bright, pleasant enough design for what it is. I don't know how the remaining decent stores can make it in this environment.

So I cruised over the Springfield Mall. While there seemed to be more people inside, the space was even emptier with fewer functioning stores. Whole corridors had boarded up and painted over, with a lonely store or two braeaking the monotony. Overall the place looked dated (1980's ceiling, etc) but the remaining stores seemed of higher quality than Landmark. And there was a new Target to breathe some life into the place.

I know the economy sucks and consumer preferences are changing against indoor malls, but what the heck happened to drive these places into the dust? New demographics? I didn't see anything that would draw me back to either of these malls compared to the other retail options out there.

Where has all the retail gone?
Perhaps this graph can shed some light on the plight of the American consumer,,,
Attachments:

not an indoor shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what the
> heck happened to drive these places into the dust?


I know the economy sucks and consumer preferences
> are changing against indoor malls


> I didn't see anything that
> would draw me back to either of these malls
> compared to the other retail options out there.

The INTERNET closed most of those stores.

IIRC, Springfield Mall was supposed to be torn down completely and replaced w/ a Town Center-type commercial center. They started clearing out tenants, but then the economic downturn of 2008 put the project on hold, so the mall was left mostly empty.

I'M A FIVE-STAR MAN!!

Springfield Mall used to be THE place to hang out when I was in High School. It was always vibrant, bright, busy and bustling. It didn't matter WHAT day of the week it was, or what time of the day. Two theaters, two video arcades, several toy stores, and a food court that was ALWAYS buzzing with some hot chicks.......

I too just went back to Springfield Mall after having been out of the area for the last 10-15 years and, like you, I was completely shocked at how LITTLE it resembled the place of my youth. Lights dim and on half power, NO ONE to be seen up and down the empty, dusty, darkened hallways, store fronts blank and dead-eyed with nothing but empty fixtures and fading advertisements peeling from the walls. There was no sound, no light, no LIFE. It ACTUALLY even felt a little bit unsafe, like I could be set apon by a gang of thieves in this empty corpse of a mall and no one would hear or know.

I left feeling really saddened and depressed. As many memories as I hold of hanging out in that mall with my friends, taking girls on dates, blowing hundreds of dollars in quarters at the arcades, flirting with random girls, etc. I couldn't believe that it had fallen so low. It reminded me of a mall from some "post apocalyptic" movie after everyone on Earth has died.

Nothing but shadows, echoes, darkness and dust. It really did bum me out. :(

The Target store in Springfield Mall is relatively new. Anyone know why they would go in there if the place was supposed to be redeveloped (since it had sunk so low...)?

Yeah, I think the holding company that was responsible for Springfield mall went bankrupt.

?!? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Target store in Springfield Mall is relatively
> new. Anyone know why they would go in there if
> the place was supposed to be redeveloped (since it
> had sunk so low...)?





They built that before it was announced Springfield Mall would be turned into a town center.

Springfield Mall - the mall of my youth. I had my first kiss on the outside steps leading up to JC Penney. My first date was to a movie there. I took a modeling class and modeled back-to-school fashions center court. I remember going out with a huge group of friends to Farrell's and eating ice cream.

Bought a few Homecoming gowns at Gunne Sax. I was so excited when I finally graduated to junior sized-clothes and could shop at the cool stores like Susie's Casuals and Limited. I was forbidden to ever hang out with the burn-outs at Time Out.

Remember when the mall had a lounge area with purple (and I mean deep, true purple) carpet? I remember Hong Kong had orange shag carpeting. Spencer's had the raunchiest stuff - for the time anyway.

Garfinkel's was there - again, lots of dark purple and glass. Gap, Taco Laredo, Corvette's, Wicks and Sticks, Capezio, Merle Norman, Jean Nicole, Brooks, Units, Spa Lady, Herman's, I think all of these have faded away over the years. I don't know what is there anymore.

I guess Springfield Mall is not the only mall I'll ever need, after all.

jhey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IIRC, Springfield Mall was supposed to be torn
> down completely and replaced w/ a Town Center-type
> commercial center. They started clearing out
> tenants, but then the economic downturn of 2008
> put the project on hold, so the mall was left
> mostly empty.


Springfield Mall won't be converted to a town center b/c Target is the holdout. They have nothing to gain from it (or so it's reported).

Trixie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Springfield Mall - the mall of my youth. I had my
> first kiss on the outside steps leading up to JC
> Penney. My first date was to a movie there. I
> took a modeling class and modeled back-to-school
> fashions center court. I remember going out with
> a huge group of friends to Farrell's and eating
> ice cream.
>
> Bought a few Homecoming gowns at Gunne Sax. I was
> so excited when I finally graduated to junior
> sized-clothes and could shop at the cool stores
> like Susie's Casuals and Limited. I was forbidden
> to ever hang out with the burn-outs at Time Out.
>
>
> Remember when the mall had a lounge area with
> purple (and I mean deep, true purple) carpet? I
> remember Hong Kong had orange shag carpeting.
> Spencer's had the raunchiest stuff - for the time
> anyway.
>
> Garfinkel's was there - again, lots of dark purple
> and glass. Gap, Taco Laredo, Corvette's, Wicks
> and Sticks, Capezio, Merle Norman, Jean Nicole,
> Brooks, Units, Spa Lady, Herman's, I think all of
> these have faded away over the years. I don't
> know what is there anymore.
>
> I guess Springfield Mall is not the only mall I'll
> ever need, after all.


Taco Laredo, mmmmmnnn! An acquired taste, admittedly, but oh, so good.

Springfield Mall is dead because it is slowly closing down so they can rebuild it. The company that owns the mall wants to make it more like Tyson's Corner but I heard the project won't take place for the next few years or so. If you go into the mall they have all the plans on the walls on the top floor near where the Subway used to be.

Landmark is shutting down because it was supposed to be leveled and turned into a strip mall and townhouses. However, I also heard that project is on hold, though I don't know the reason why. My guess is that contractors don't want to invest in building housing when people aren't crazy about buying right now, especially in an area that has lower income residents.

Landmark already WAS a strip mall. In the 90's they bulldozed it to build the mall that is currently there. Now they're going to bulldoze it again to rebuild the strip mall. Geeze. Pointless.

Are there not plans to make a zombie movie at Springfield Mall? Dusk to Dawn 25?

I remember seeing JAWS at springfield Mall theatres

Hello Trixie?

Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the niggers that hang out there will carjack the older women that shop at Macey's. Totally ghetto.

You don't go to a mall for 15 years and then wonder why it's dead? I think you answered your own question.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Good luck getting that mall to look and feel anything like Tysons. Springfield is a shit hole. It used to be safe there but now there's a chance you'll be kidnapped and killed by assholes from Woodbridge.

Farrell's was awesome for kids - it was like a wonderland. That closed in the late 80's though didn't it?

http://www.springfieldmall.com/ "Largest Mall in Northern Virginia" ... gotta love marketing

Springfield Mall is a great training facility if you need to keep your hand to hand combat skills razor sharp.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Indoor Malls are retail relics like Department Stores. Wal-Mart, Target and new shopping center designs (where you pull up to the store you want versus walking through an indoor mall or outdoor shopping center), have made indoor malls obsolete. As for department stores, I don't understand why Macy's, JCPenney's, etc, don't adopt check-out lanes. It's such a pain in the ass trying to find someone to check you out in the first place, and then they are usually slower than shit, I'm surprised anyone shops at these places. That's why Kohl's is eating their lunch.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't go to a mall for 15 years and then
> wonder why it's dead? I think you answered your
> own question.


Not that it's germane to the discussion at hand, but as I said, I wasn't living in the area for 15 years. Now that I'm BACK in the area I went to it.

When I was a kid (40 years ago), you would go in a department store and get this really incredible service. A clerk would come up to you and ask if you needed help and what you were looking for (and this happened right after you walked in the store). Then you would actually have the clerk with you the entire time, helping you find the items you wanted (and they knew what was in the store). They would actually go find other things while you were in the dressing room (asking if you like such and such and how it was fitting, etc.). Then when or if you decided on something, they would also be the same person who took your money and packaged your item(s). It was absolutely full service. Now the department stores can't decide what they are. You are sort of supposed to find your own stuff and find someone to pay. Once in a while they count to make sure you aren't going to steal something in the dressing room or, if you ask for help, they point in the direction of the product. That's about it. They can't compete on price if they give full service. There is little reason to use a department store unless it's about quality and choice of product---which you can get online now.

Okay here is the story..Springfield Mall was bought by Vornado before the real estate crash with plans to RENOVATE part of the mall and also turn part of it into an outdoor town center area. It was understood that the anchor stores (Macy's, JCPenney, Target) would stay in place and remain the anchor stores along with new resturants, retail and office buildings. After the real estate crash VOrnado defaulted on their loan on the purchase of the mall and the property has been now taken over by a bank. At this point in time all renovations have been put on hold. Some stores in the mall don't even pay rent to stay there. When it rains there are buckets and trash cans all over the mall to catch the leaks and they don't even turn on the air conditioning in the mall itself, just the individual stores. So if you walk through there on a hot summer's day it feels like a sauna.

It's sad and hopefully someone can step in and make something of the mall, because in it's current state I don't see it lasting much longer.

No rent?!?!?! Shit, I'ma go get me an empty store space to live in. That would be WICKED cool!

Thuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the
> niggers that hang out there will carjack the older
> women that shop at Macey's. Totally ghetto.


That sums it up in a nutshell.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Indoor Malls are retail relics like Department
> Stores. Wal-Mart, Target and new shopping center
> designs (where you pull up to the store you want
> versus walking through an indoor mall or outdoor
> shopping center), have made indoor malls obsolete.





Then explain Tyson's.

TimeOut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Some stores in the mall don't even pay rent to stay
> there.





Why?

­



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2013 10:24PM by chuckhoffmann.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Indoor Malls are retail relics like Department
> Stores. Wal-Mart, Target and new shopping center
> designs (where you pull up to the store you want
> versus walking through an indoor mall or outdoor
> shopping center), have made indoor malls obsolete.
> As for department stores, I don't understand why
> Macy's, JCPenney's, etc, don't adopt check-out
> lanes. It's such a pain in the ass trying to find
> someone to check you out in the first place, and
> then they are usually slower than shit, I'm
> surprised anyone shops at these places. That's why
> Kohl's is eating their lunch.

So how are Macy's, Sears, and JCPenney able to survive, when the malls they are in are often failing? In fact, the Landover mall in MD was completely demolished, leaving the Sears store free-standing and still operating amidst a pile of rubble. So what's the secret -- these "anhor" stores must be bleeding cash and I don't see how they can compete with online and discount retailers. They must own their own land and have little go-forward expenses.

Anyone remember the jingle for the old Springfield Mall tv & radio commercials? It was something simple like "~~~Springfield Mall, the only mall you'll ever need~~~" Obviously I haven't been there in a while, is the Montgomery Ward restaurant still open?

First, Tyson's and Fair Oaks keep going because they are near densely populated areas with money. They have stores that cater to that population. In addition, it's no mistake Tyson's added the huge theatres and food court to generate foot traffic. If you look across the retail landscape, though, most indoor malls are losing money and developers are moving away from building new ones.

As for Macy's, Sears and Penneys, Sears and Penneys have been close to going under for years. And remember Hecht's? There's a reason they are called Macy's now.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

What i dont undurstand is why are there two Macy's in Fairoaks mall. You can easily shop in one of them and shut down the other. It's just weird.

ice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What i dont undurstand is why are there two Macy's
> in Fairoaks mall. You can easily shop in one of
> them and shut down the other. It's just weird.

Wasn't one of them a Hechts that got bought by Macy's? Are the selections different in each of the stores? I'm guessing they are locked into long-term leases.

Actually in the 1985, Princess Diana and Prince Charles actually shopped at Macy's in Springfield Mall, during their visit to the U.S. But now the place along with Landmark and Van Dorn street has become a shithole due to the economy and being surrounded by low income immigrants. Both malls are very dated and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were gone in 10 years. Those old crappy apartment buildings on Van Dorn will be next.

ice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What i dont undurstand is why are there two Macy's
> in Fairoaks mall. You can easily shop in one of
> them and shut down the other. It's just weird.


Macy's bought Hecht's which is why there are two in that mall. From what I've heard, they keep the higher-end merchandise in one Macy's (the original), and lower-tier at the former Hecht's one.

Landmark and Springfield Malls were overcome by immigrants. Springfield Mall became downright dangerous and Landmark just became deserted. I was physically threatened at the Springfield Mall, by a pack of little wolves. Whenever I've been at Landmark I felt like I was back in central America. In Springfield Mall it felt like MS-13 controlled the place.

Finally someone got to the heart of the matter, we have allowed others to come and ruin our stuff,we allowed it to happen, perhaps we can change it

A big problem for many malls is that in chasing after top rent they end up with a mix of stores that makes them pretty much irrelevant to many shoppers. Why bother going to a mall hoping to find what you need when you can go to a free standing store that has what you need? Why bother driving across town to a mall when it has the same stores as the one closer to your house? Why bother walking from one end of the mall to the other when you know all you are going to find is more of the same?

A problem for Springfield Mall was the idiotic way that they dealt with thugs. If your mall security is incapable of differentiating between thugs bent on mischief and groups of kids hanging out together shopping without adult supervision, then you deserve what you get.

­



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2013 10:25PM by chuckhoffmann.

Joel H Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I
> was physically threatened at the Springfield Mall,
> by a pack of little wolves.


Sounds like an interesting story. Care to share the details?

In 1955, Seven Corners was the cutting edge in retail. Mom didn't have to take us to DC to buy clothes anymore. Just look at that dump today. I guess it's just a natural cycle.

ice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What i dont undurstand is why are there two Macy's
> in Fairoaks mall. You can easily shop in one of
> them and shut down the other. It's just weird.

That's so your wife can tell you she wants something for Christmas that she saw in Macy's and you can look all over the other one and not be able to find it.

Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the niggers and spics that hang out there. Totally ghetto

I stand corrected, it was JC Penny's they visited but I wasn't sure when I wrote the post. I think we can all agree that both places are dumps and both need to be renovated or demolished. While they're at it, knock down all of the crappy houses across from Silver Diner.

rrs540 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I stand corrected, it was JC Penny's they visited
> but I wasn't sure when I wrote the post. I think
> we can all agree that both places are dumps and
> both need to be renovated or demolished. While
> they're at it, knock down all of the crappy houses
> across from Silver Diner.


??? There are no houses near Silver Diner. The elevated part of Franconia Rd. is in front of it and the mall parking lot is behind it. On either side are commercial buildings.

BTW, I was in the Springfield Mall the other day and they have this poster on one of the walls:



Looks like wishful thinking to me.

that poster has been up for over 3 years lol

oldtimer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In 1955, Seven Corners was the cutting edge in
> retail. Mom didn't have to take us to DC to buy
> clothes anymore. Just look at that dump today. I
> guess it's just a natural cycle.


And that area has been overrun with low income immigrants as well. When purchasing power drops, there's no chance of having quality stores move in. Imagine one of the nice Tysons' boutiques opening up in Springfield mall... the only merch leaving the store would be on fleet feet.

Demographics play a huge factor in determining the success/failure of a retail venture. The mall can be decent, but if no decent folks live around it....

ntwt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oldtimer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In 1955, Seven Corners was the cutting edge in
> > retail. Mom didn't have to take us to DC to
> buy
> > clothes anymore. Just look at that dump today.
> I
> > guess it's just a natural cycle.
>
>
> And that area has been overrun with low income
> immigrants as well. When purchasing power drops,
> there's no chance of having quality stores move
> in. Imagine one of the nice Tysons' boutiques
> opening up in Springfield mall... the only merch
> leaving the store would be on fleet feet.
>
> Demographics play a huge factor in determining the
> success/failure of a retail venture. The mall can
> be decent, but if no decent folks live around
> it....


It use to be a nice place...the other poster had it right with the people who moved in..they are just like locust...

the truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the
> niggers and spics that hang out there. Totally
> ghetto


This.

When I was kid back in the late '80s-early '90s, these were the "cool" malls with the good stores to go to. My dad used to take me to Landmark Mall to get school clothes.

Landmark was awesome because it had the first Chick-Fil-A in the area.

That was its only appeal.

Love the Springfield Town Ctr banner. All that's missing is the MS13 and Locos tags on the walls. You all said it best, demographics.

john holmes Wrote:
> they are -just like locust...

After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're (Tysons) next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.

OMG, this brought back soo many memories. you forgot to mention the Orange Julius' we drank...and the Sam Goody store

oldtimer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In 1955, Seven Corners was the cutting edge in
> retail. Mom didn't have to take us to DC to buy
> clothes anymore. Just look at that dump today. I
> guess it's just a natural cycle.

Seven Corners got a nice makeover a few years ago, so it's no longer a dump. It's not cutting edge retail anymore, but it's a bustling little shopping center again.

Hey, you all, just cut it out! RACISM is a CRIME!................ And crime is for Black people. ;)

Thuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the
> niggers that hang out there will carjack the older
> women that shop at Macey's. Totally ghetto.


Liar! There is no Macey's at the mall. As a matter of fact, there is no supermarket in the mall at all.

Hey Truth!

You got it right....those 2 groups ruin all the places they go..

No not directly across from Silver Dine but on the other side of the overpass. Shit houses.

hoocoodanode Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thuth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the
> > niggers that hang out there will carjack the
> older
> > women that shop at Macey's. Totally ghetto.
>
>
> Liar! There is no Macey's at the mall. As a matter
> of fact, there is no supermarket in the mall at
> all.


use to be, not sure if it was macey's in the early 90's. however,read above. says it all.

The way it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hoocoodanode Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thuth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the
> > > niggers that hang out there will carjack the
> > older
> > > women that shop at Macey's. Totally ghetto.
> >
> >
> > Liar! There is no Macey's at the mall. As a
> matter
> > of fact, there is no supermarket in the mall at
> > all.
>
>
> use to be, not sure if it was macey's in the early
> 90's. however,read above. says it all.

I was trying to be funny, but I guess I failed. *sniffle* (Or no one here knows anyone from Utah.)

Macey's are grocery stores.
Macy's are department stores.

Funny...I just went to Springfield mall for the first time this weekend. I had been warned about it's condition, but I needed some anti-depressants after I left. Even the Target was sad.

Target shouldn't build in malls. It's a guaranteed disaster.

PG County used to have a lot of nice malls and look what happened. Landover Mall, Capital Plaza mall, that firetrap Forestville Plaza shopping center.

Dead malls are a warning signal for other looming problems. Sores in these malls that cater to poverty help spark a vicious circle that's tough to pull out of. Which decent retailer wants to rent space in one of these malls next to a dollar store or an empty store front being used as a dance studio?

We're heading the same way down the drain that PG County took.

Company that owns Springfield Mall defaults on $160 million in loans
Springfield anchor stores investing in upgrades; Vornado Realty Trust originally purchased the mall in 2006

New York-based Vornado Realty Trust, a real estate investment trust, purchased Springfield Mall in 2006, promising to develop the "super-regional" mall into what it termed a "lifestyle center" complete with retail, office and hotel space.

But according to financial disclosures, in March, Vornado defaulted on its mortgage loan with a principal balance of $164.25 million on the mall.

On Oct. 1, broker Mission Capital Advisors issued an offering memorandum on behalf of an unidentified seller, offering loans in the amount of $158,956,708 secured by a "Super Regional Mall" in Springfield. The mall is "anchored by several major retailers including Target, J.C. Penney and Macy's" the offering states.

Vornado Realty Trust representatives declined to comment on the offering, other than to say it would not comment "beyond its filing."

As a result of the offering, Springfield Mall might come under new ownership, but Vornado also might be testing the market to see what the mall property is worth.

According to an Aug. 25 Wall Street Journal article, Vornado and other commercial REITs recently have stopped making mortgage payments on several properties that are worth less than their loan amounts in an effort to put pressure on lenders to restructure the loans.

The recent Springfield Mall loan offering states the current rate on the $160 million loan is 8.5 percent.

"As far as what I'm seeing on the county level, Vornado appears as committed to the mall as ever," said Fairfax County Supervisor Jeff McKay (Lee District). "It has gone through the county expedited permit process with no problems. Anchor stores such as J.C. Penney and Target are putting significant dollars into upgrades -- as a matter of fact, Penney's upgrade was in the neighborhood of $14 million," McKay said.

"After our recent upgrades, we are not planning on going anywhere," said J.C. Penney spokeswoman Ann Marie Bishop of the Springfield Mall location.

Springfield mall died and will never be resurrected, in my opinion

Exactly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nobody goes to springfield Mall because the
> > niggers and spics that hang out there. Totally
> > ghetto
>
>
> This.

I think most people living near Landmark prefer to go to Pentagon City.

Once Springfield Mall got the Target as an Anchor and rumors circulated about it being torn down, shoppers decided to go to Fair Oaks rather than a run down mall.


I couldn't believe the last time I went to Landmark. All of the stores were closed. It was a ghost town.

Landmark Shock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I couldn't believe the last time I went to
> Landmark. All of the stores were closed. It was
> a ghost town.

With a damn scary parking garage. Watch your back if you park in that major crime zone in waiting.

Landmark and Springfield have been crappy mall for 20+ years. You can't have gangs of kid with no money running the mall. Ballston almost fell into that trap.
Not to mention the fact that the traffic in both of those areas limits the time you spend in the mall. 2 hours sitting in traffic I just go to another mall or amazon.

This just in... looks like the dozers are warming their engines for Springfield Mall... or at least the work crews are getting ready:

SPRINGFIELD, Va. - About half of Springfield Mall's storefronts are now empty, but the mall could come off life support soon now that a developer has agreed to buy the mall.

The redevelopment plans for the mall looked to be in dire straights a few months ago when Vornado Realty Trust, the new landlord, claimed it would walk away from the project if it wasn't able to drive down the price of the property's mortgage.

Late last week, Vornado announced in had agreed to buy the mall for about $115 million, according to the Connection Newspapers.

The first phase of the redevelopment will include a new food court and a state-of-the-art movie theater.

Nancy-jo Manney, executive director of the Springfield Chamber of Commerce, tells the Connection Newspapers the mall's vacancy rate should help the renovation move along faster.

Development at the mall site over the next decade will include stores outside, office space, pedestrian-friendly areas and places to live.

yeay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The first phase of the redevelopment will include
> a new food court and a state-of-the-art movie
> theater.
>
> Nancy-jo Manney, executive director of the
> Springfield Chamber of Commerce, tells the
> Connection Newspapers the mall's vacancy rate
> should help the renovation move along faster.



Renovating the mall is like putting lipstick on a pig. They need to just raze the entire place and start over.

It should be demoed - a la.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMtdXaqBx4

sumguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Landmark and Springfield have been crappy mall for
> 20+ years. You can't have gangs of kid with no
> money running the mall. Ballston almost fell into
> that trap.
> Not to mention the fact that the traffic in both
> of those areas limits the time you spend in the
> mall. 2 hours sitting in traffic I just go to
> another mall or amazon.

Ballston may someday... if some of the offices move or close up. But yes Springfield is becoming more and more vacant as the days go on. I saw a new store open at Landmark, some calender store when I went to Macys on Saturday, and I saw quite a few people, not just a lot in Macys, but quite a few through out the mall, but where the hell were they shopping?!

Springfield Mall has been in the process of turning into a major crap shoot for the NOVA area for the past 15 years at least. When I was growing up in this area my parents would always try to avoid Springfield Mall because the area around it was going downhill fast quality wise because of the arrival of large numbers of immigrants, but also due to the fact that effective security and police presence at the mall was absent leaving the negative aspects of the area around it take it over.

While on the other hand, my family preferred Fair Oaks Mall, which although not offering anything magnificent or remarkable at the time was at least in a fairly good area and was safe to visit at all times of the day. If anything Fair Oaks and the area around it has gone up in terms of value and overall quality over the years, with many upscale stores and other entities moving both into the mall it's self and the area around it.

On yet another note Dulles Mall and Town center is on it's way to becoming another Springfield or Landmark Mall. As over the past times I've visited there especially since the beginning of the financial crisis in 2008 quite a few of the stores in there have closed up shop and left. In addition, it appears dirtier and less frequented, and that many of the people in Dulles Mall appear to be lower scale and lower quality in comparison to those at places like Tyson's or Fair Oaks.

Tyson's, Pentagon City, and Fair Oaks are the most likely the best places to shop and offer the most quality wise in NOVA in my opinion.

JR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "As far as what I'm seeing on the county level,
> Vornado appears as committed to the mall as ever,"
> said Fairfax County Supervisor Jeff McKay (Lee
> District). "It has gone through the county
> expedited permit process with no problems. Anchor
> stores such as J.C. Penney and Target are putting
> significant dollars into upgrades -- as a matter
> of fact, Penney's upgrade was in the neighborhood
> of $14 million," McKay said.

I notice that McKay made no mention was made of Macys. Has anybody been in the Springfield Mall Macys recently? It's a total dump. Look at the walls, the floors, the fixtures, the brass accents, the paint, the dressing rooms, the registers, the veneer... everything is broken, scuffed, falling apart, or just plain filthy.

I took my kid there for some Christmas shopping and walked out embarrassed that I dragged her into such a pit.

The Mall renovation is back on. Vornado just secured financing and the construction is about to start.

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=2219227

Observer of Things Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "As far as what I'm seeing on the county level,
> > Vornado appears as committed to the mall as
> ever,"
> > said Fairfax County Supervisor Jeff McKay (Lee
> > District). "It has gone through the county
> > expedited permit process with no problems.
> Anchor
> > stores such as J.C. Penney and Target are
> putting
> > significant dollars into upgrades -- as a
> matter
> > of fact, Penney's upgrade was in the
> neighborhood
> > of $14 million," McKay said.
>
> I notice that McKay made no mention was made of
> Macys. Has anybody been in the Springfield Mall
> Macys recently? It's a total dump. Look at the
> walls, the floors, the fixtures, the brass
> accents, the paint, the dressing rooms, the
> registers, the veneer... everything is broken,
> scuffed, falling apart, or just plain filthy.
>
> I took my kid there for some Christmas shopping
> and walked out embarrassed that I dragged her into
> such a pit.


Target and Pennys own their spaces at Springfield Mall. They're kinda stuck. Macys doesn't. Don't be surprised to see Macy's pull out if Vornado doesn't come through this time.

OldtimeResident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Target and Pennys own their spaces at Springfield
> Mall. They're kinda stuck. Macys doesn't. Don't be
> surprised to see Macy's pull out if Vornado
> doesn't come through this time.



Yeah, I've heard this before. Why did they buy the land rather than lease like the rest of the stores? I don't see how they could do anything but cooperate with the renovation of Springfield Mall. It isn't like developers could build around them.

Retail real estate is a funny business. Penneys bought their space when the mall was built, as did Montgomery Wards. I suspect there was a revenue/profit sharing angle with the original mall owner. Springfield Mall was still pretty strong when Federated bought out JCPenney so I guess they viewed that as an asset. When Montgomery Wards folded that anchor space sat vacant for quite some time before Target came in. Since Montgomery Wards went chapter 7 and Springfield Mall was going through a tough time because of the 495/95 interchange reconstruction I'd bet Target picked up the property cheap at the bankruptcy sale.

From WTOP.com:

"Late last week, Vornado announced in had agreed to buy the mall for about $115 million, according to the Connection Newspapers.

The first phase of the redevelopment will include a new food court and a state-of-the-art movie theater."

Good move on the developers part, upgrade the food court so the thugs, gang bangers and MS-13 members will have a place to create mayhem, and a movie theatre to relax and annoy anyone stupid enough to enter that war-zone in the making.

MasonMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Springfield Mall has been in the process of
> turning into a major crap shoot for the NOVA area
> for the past 15 years at least. When I was growing
> up in this area my parents would always try to
> avoid Springfield Mall because the area around it
> was going downhill fast quality wise because of
> the arrival of large numbers of immigrants, but
> also due to the fact that effective security and
> police presence at the mall was absent leaving the
> negative aspects of the area around it take it
> over.
>
> While on the other hand, my family preferred Fair
> Oaks Mall, which although not offering anything
> magnificent or remarkable at the time was at least
> in a fairly good area and was safe to visit at all
> times of the day. If anything Fair Oaks and the
> area around it has gone up in terms of value and
> overall quality over the years, with many upscale
> stores and other entities moving both into the
> mall it's self and the area around it.
>
> On yet another note Dulles Mall and Town center is
> on it's way to becoming another Springfield or
> Landmark Mall. As over the past times I've visited
> there especially since the beginning of the
> financial crisis in 2008 quite a few of the stores
> in there have closed up shop and left. In
> addition, it appears dirtier and less frequented,
> and that many of the people in Dulles Mall appear
> to be lower scale and lower quality in comparison
> to those at places like Tyson's or Fair Oaks.
>
> Tyson's, Pentagon City, and Fair Oaks are the most
> likely the best places to shop and offer the most
> quality wise in NOVA in my opinion.


I love Fair Oakes...about the only mall I bother with. Dulles Town Center, like Springfield and Landmark, I personally like the location and the decor but I kinda agree and disagree - only disagree because it is the only mall in Loudoun County, but that doesn't stop people from going on VA 28 to US 50 and then they are at Fair Oakes. But other than that...some of the brand name stores have closed, and some of the newer stores opening aren't up to par.

OldtimeResident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Target and Pennys own their spaces at Springfield
> Mall. They're kinda stuck. Macys doesn't. Don't be
> surprised to see Macy's pull out if Vornado
> doesn't come through this time.

Aha! Now the Macy's horrid condition makes perfect sense.

It's weird though - given the mall's uncertain future, I can understand the store not wanting to renovate anything, but in my opinion, the Springfield Mall Macys has pretty much crossed the Rubicon, so to speak, when it comes to filthiness and disarray. At some point, one would think that corporate would come calling and remind them that there's a national brand image to maintain.

Macy's disrepair may be the best bellwether for the mall, perhaps?

hifolks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MasonMan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Springfield Mall has been in the process of
> > turning into a major crap shoot for the NOVA
> area
> > for the past 15 years at least. When I was
> growing
> > up in this area my parents would always try to
> > avoid Springfield Mall because the area around
> it
> > was going downhill fast quality wise because of
> > the arrival of large numbers of immigrants, but
> > also due to the fact that effective security
> and
> > police presence at the mall was absent leaving
> the
> > negative aspects of the area around it take it
> > over.
> >
> > While on the other hand, my family preferred
> Fair
> > Oaks Mall, which although not offering anything
> > magnificent or remarkable at the time was at
> least
> > in a fairly good area and was safe to visit at
> all
> > times of the day. If anything Fair Oaks and the
> > area around it has gone up in terms of value
> and
> > overall quality over the years, with many
> upscale
> > stores and other entities moving both into the
> > mall it's self and the area around it.
> >
> > On yet another note Dulles Mall and Town center
> is
> > on it's way to becoming another Springfield or
> > Landmark Mall. As over the past times I've
> visited
> > there especially since the beginning of the
> > financial crisis in 2008 quite a few of the
> stores
> > in there have closed up shop and left. In
> > addition, it appears dirtier and less
> frequented,
> > and that many of the people in Dulles Mall
> appear
> > to be lower scale and lower quality in
> comparison
> > to those at places like Tyson's or Fair Oaks.
> >
> > Tyson's, Pentagon City, and Fair Oaks are the
> most
> > likely the best places to shop and offer the
> most
> > quality wise in NOVA in my opinion.
>
>
> I love Fair Oakes...about the only mall I bother
> with. Dulles Town Center, like Springfield and
> Landmark, I personally like the location and the
> decor but I kinda agree and disagree - only
> disagree because it is the only mall in Loudoun
> County, but that doesn't stop people from going on
> VA 28 to US 50 and then they are at Fair Oakes.
> But other than that...some of the brand name
> stores have closed, and some of the newer stores
> opening aren't up to par.


Perhaps, alot of the downward slide with the Dulles Town Center has to do with the economy as Loudoun as been much harder hi in my opinion then Fairfax. Just goo look at many of office buildings and housing/condo developments surrounding the mall, and you will see alot of them sitting empty. Along with the fact much development throughout the county has effectively been stopped.

MasonMan Wrote:
> Perhaps, alot of the downward slide with the
> Dulles Town Center has to do with the economy as
> Loudoun as been much harder hi in my opinion then
> Fairfax. Just goo look at many of office buildings
> and housing/condo developments surrounding the
> mall, and you will see alot of them sitting empty.
> Along with the fact much development throughout
> the county has effectively been stopped.

Lerner is also divesting itself of all of its enclosed Malls I think Dulles Town Center is the last one on the list.

OldtimeResident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MasonMan Wrote:
> > Perhaps, alot of the downward slide with the
> > Dulles Town Center has to do with the economy
> as
> > Loudoun as been much harder hi in my opinion
> then
> > Fairfax. Just goo look at many of office
> buildings
> > and housing/condo developments surrounding the
> > mall, and you will see alot of them sitting
> empty.
> > Along with the fact much development throughout
> > the county has effectively been stopped.
>
> Lerner is also divesting itself of all of its
> enclosed Malls I think Dulles Town Center is the
> last one on the list.


Hmm, just a sign of times I guess?

Chick fil a is still worth it at Landmark, make no mistake!!!

The same thing is happening to other malls.

Lakeforest mall is going to hell.
Just visit FYE and they used cardboard billboards so they use only half of the store so they only pay half of the rent they normally pay to the mall owner.

Then on top of that 75% of the stuff FYE is selling is mexican crap which alienates regular americans. So why shop at a place you are made felt NOT WANTED at? So I no longer shop there.

On a good note I would like to add that other malls are in their prime upswing such as the Francis Scott Key mall in Fredrick.

Now that mall is starting to get major foot traffic comparedto being a dead mall from just a few years ago.

But that Fredrick mall needs a second level.

I now hate Pentagon City mall. I stopped going there when they removed the movie theater. The movie theater was the main reaosn I went there and made me hang around and shop longer.

But now all you see is thugs walking around in gang land style.

The only thing worth going there is the 2600 magazine meetings and seeing the Japanese tourists at the eatery.

Folks, it looks like Vornado manged to renegotiate the mortgage, and renovation is on the way:

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=722&sid=2219227

I'll leave the speculation about Landmark's future to others, but I am optimistic that Springfield will be able to turn things around once the revenue streams start flowing again with the new stores and tenants.

I can tell you that the reason these malls are not doing that well is because the nexus of Northern Virginia residential and commercial development of the last 20 years has centered around the I-66 and Toll Road corridors, and the demographic makeup of the population has definitely shifted. The expansion of Fort Belvoir will eventually bring people with higher incomes back.

The latest:

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=347163&paper=72&cat=104

Apparently somebody is serious about life support. But we shall see.

Jonah

"...the demographic makeup of the population has definitely shifted"

A tactful way to say that White Flight has occurred in Fairfax Country (formerly the most affluent county in the nation). The destination is now Loudoun County (now the most affluent county in the nation).

Jonah

Jonah Begone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The latest:
>
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=347163&paper=72&cat=104
>
> Apparently somebody is serious about life support.
> But we shall see.
>
> Jonah

I strongly agree, however the mainly White/Asian population is shifting more to the peripheries of the county like Reston, Fair Oaks etc, away from the heart of Fairfax where the population seems to be becoming majority Hispanic.

So in short if that's the case, I also agree with you that Springfield Mall is not coming back then as it will not have the demographic/economic base to support such expenditures and that the investment in fixing the place up is wasted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2011 05:16PM by MasonMan.

Looks like Springfield Mall isn't dead afterall

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/cms/story.php?id=2866

So which tenants was the management company specifically trying to weed out? It would seem the anchors would have the longest-term commitments, if they don't already own their land/building.

"Vornado is courting some national retailers who can sustain and consign long-term leases." Does this mean the place is going to have the same stores as any other mall in the area?

I went to LandMark Mall this afternoon, boy was it a shocker. I use to go to Landmark in the mid-90s to early 2000's. It use to be a great mall to go to, lights all over the place clean and treated parking lots. So I go today, and first warning signal should have been the main entrance, wrapped with caution tape around the trees? Once I got in the mall I noticed DARKNESS, there were 0 lights on, it was dark as hell. I went up to the dinning location and it was a ghost house. The mall was a ghost house, everything was abandoned. I was going to use the elevator to go down and I see a sign right next to the elevator saying that the elevators would be shut off in the opening and closing times of the store to conserve energy. I was in shock to see such B.S. and through the nostalgic moments I also felt depressed. I'm no idiot, the owner/s of the place are going to shut the dump down soon. Whoever does something about that dump, they really need to derail the place and demolish it. I would turn it to a strip mall and maybe more homes. Springfield Mall on the other hand, might look dead but it still has a pulse, good old modells keeps me coming back.Springfield Mall has a chance, I hope they renovate some things and bring it back to life. RIP Landmark, I will remember the good times spent in that mall.

this thread is as dead as those malls.........

It's all the Hispanics in that area, duh. Malls don't accept WIC checks.

yeah, it's the Hispanics.............

the interweb has absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of malls - it's just the Hispanics.

yeah.