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Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: August 03, 2007 03:03PM

I was in Crystal City the other day at an event that offered 20% off things in the restaurant. However, the bar tender informed me that it is illegial to discount alcohol in VA is this true? I also heard that it is illegial to mix spirits and beer and/or wine. Thus a carbomb (irish creme and jameson shot dropped in guinness) and sangria would be illegal. However, I have had both of those in Alexandria.

Does anyone know if there are truths to either one of these?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: bdimag ()
Date: August 03, 2007 03:35PM

I think i've heard about the illegal to discount alcohol thing..

The mixing of drinks - I've had, and seen taken, carbombs everywhere i go.. i can't believe that is illegal..

The way around the discount is to just not charge for drinks :) - I went to a bar i used to work at (and got fired from), i got 2 beers and a meal and only payed for 1 beer and a [nice] tip.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Lester Burnham ()
Date: August 03, 2007 04:40PM

VA alcohol laws are among the most strict in the US. No 2-for-1, no ladies' nights, no unlimited drinks for $x, no drinks 'on the house' and NO BARS without food. Lots of details can be found here at http://www.abc.state.va.us/licensing/abcguide.htm.

Growing up in Pennsylvania, I never thought that I would miss the neighborhood tavern, but establishments that serve alcohol must take in at least 45% of their revenue from food sales.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Lurker. ()
Date: August 03, 2007 04:47PM

Yeah, the bartender is not suppose to give away any free drinks.

2) It also illegal to advertise alcolol specials outside of the bar like $1 bottle night.

3) There is also a law as to what a bartender can wear. No skimpy outfits.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: August 03, 2007 05:21PM

Lester Burnham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VA alcohol laws are among the most strict in the
> US. No 2-for-1, no ladies' nights, no unlimited
> drinks for $x, no drinks 'on the house' and NO
> BARS without food. Lots of details can be found
> here at
> http://www.abc.state.va.us/licensing/abcguide.htm.
>
>
> Growing up in Pennsylvania, I never thought that I
> would miss the neighborhood tavern, but
> establishments that serve alcohol must take in at
> least 45% of their revenue from food sales.

Is this in VA or Utah?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: trogdor! ()
Date: August 03, 2007 06:46PM

Remember when South Carolina had the law where bars and restaurants had to use the little bottles to make drinks? Those were the days.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-29-sc-alcohol-law_x.htm

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: duh ()
Date: August 03, 2007 07:29PM

I remember the "liquor-by-the-drink" initiative of the late 60's. It was a ballot item on election day.

That's right, you could not buy a mixed drink in a restaurant...just 40 years ago.

There were also "dry counties" in Virginia....no legal alcohol period. I think there might still be a couple of these.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Date: August 03, 2007 09:16PM

Are we still in the land of the free?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 03, 2007 10:04PM

Are we still in the land of the free?

"Well if you'd just stop making the choice to break our laws, then you would be free."

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Nik ()
Date: August 05, 2007 11:45AM

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, the bartender is not suppose to give away
> any free drinks.
>
> 2) It also illegal to advertise alcolol specials
> outside of the bar like $1 bottle night.
>
> 3) There is also a law as to what a bartender can
> wear. No skimpy outfits.


Is it actually enforced?

----------------
WHERE'S THE BEEF

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: August 05, 2007 12:53PM

Mayberry was in a dry NC county and you cant get anymiore free and American than Andy and Mayberry. Oh, and I remember an episode where they said Aunt Bee did not even any cooking sherry in the house because of a brother of hers had a drinking problem. This lead to wild debates amongst fans of the show about whether or not Otis was really Aunt Bee's brother.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 05, 2007 04:50PM

The 45%-55% applies to hard alcohol like rum, gin, vodka etc. Beer and wine do not count in the percentages. You have to sell 45% food to stay legal.
Just last Friday a federal judge in the Va Beach area overturned the law about lewd conduct in a bar so that may take away the part about the bartender wearing skimpy clothes.

In my own opinion it is the fault of the hicks down south that still want prohibition. There are more than a few counties in Virginia that are dry.

FYI join a private club like a Moose lodge or something like that. Many of the laws do not apply in them. They can serve booze 24 hours a day.

p.s. check out most areas in South Carolina, you cant even buy booze at a bar or anywhere on Sundays. At least Virginia you can still grab a cold one on Sunday.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: August 05, 2007 07:20PM

caddy shack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 45%-55% applies to hard alcohol like rum, gin,
> vodka etc. Beer and wine do not count in the
> percentages. You have to sell 45% food to stay
> legal.
> Just last Friday a federal judge in the Va Beach
> area overturned the law about lewd conduct in a
> bar so that may take away the part about the
> bartender wearing skimpy clothes.
>
> In my own opinion it is the fault of the hicks
> down south that still want prohibition. There are
> more than a few counties in Virginia that are dry.
>
>
> FYI join a private club like a Moose lodge or
> something like that. Many of the laws do not apply
> in them. They can serve booze 24 hours a day.
>
> p.s. check out most areas in South Carolina, you
> cant even buy booze at a bar or anywhere on
> Sundays. At least Virginia you can still grab a
> cold one on Sunday.

Yeah that's true, but aren't the ABC stores closed on Sunday except for Nova?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 05, 2007 10:20PM

In Northern Va they are open not sure about the rest of the state. But in south carolina you cant even buy a beer on Sunday except in the Myrtle Beach area. I mean nowhere, not even a restaurant like TGI Fridays or something. Backwards ass people seem to get these stupid laws passed by falling back on religion.
When I traveled through the mid west I think it was Kansas or Nebraska last call was 12 and some bs about you had to bring your own bottle of hard liquor if you wanted a mixed drink.

I think I see the ways changing in Virginia as we get more power to do away with the half ass stuff imposed by the southern part of the state.

I will swim against the current but I think anyone over 18 should have full access to alcohol. How screwed up is it that you can join the army, vote and be tried as an adult but you cant have a stinking beer. I hope someday this state moves into the 21st century but I wont hold my breath.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 05, 2007 10:27PM

And while I am venting I am also pissed I can't gamble with my own money at my own risk unless I want to go to some far off location. That null and void George Bush took away my right to even play on the internet poker rooms for .50/1.00 games because it was deemed a terrorist activity.

I would move my lazy ass to Neveda but it is so damn hot and eveyone is moving there for the tax breaks. The traffic is worse than here.

Screw all these backwards ass nanny state pricks that take away this and other freedoms.

Sorry for all that, but now I feel better and can get my ass into bed and sleep.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 05, 2007 10:43PM

I would move my lazy ass to Neveda but it is so damn hot and eveyone is moving there for the tax breaks. The traffic is worse than here.

I'm going to Vegas on Wed. night for my annual goof-off. I'm actually looking forward to that glorious ridiculous heat, I love the place but would never-ever want to live there. BTW, traffic is way worse here in NOVA than it is out there.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 05, 2007 11:05PM

Really,
Maybe it was just me but last time I went it was gridlock but then I was probably too close to the strip so that is to be expected.

I know the real estate market went in the tank there so it is a good time to pick up a bargain on a home. Most every decent one has a pool in the backyard and the prices were great a few years back so should be even better now.
Be nice to take a few days at a place where no one asks questions and you can have some fun without breaking the law.

Good luck Meeper, where you staying?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 06, 2007 05:41AM

Traffic around the Strip gets pretty bad, and I've seen rush hours backups on 15, but nothing compared to the gridlock you see on 66, 495, 395, etc. around here.

Good luck Meeper, where you staying?

1 night at the El Cortez and then 3 at the Flamingo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2007 05:42AM by TheMeeper.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: August 06, 2007 08:16AM

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Traffic around the Strip gets pretty bad, and I've
> seen rush hours backups on 15, but nothing
> compared to the gridlock you see on 66, 495, 395,
> etc. around here.
>
> Good luck Meeper, where you staying?
>
> 1 night at the El Cortez and then 3 at the
> Flamingo.

The Flamingo is a decent hotel. They try to be upscale and do not do a bad job of it. My complaint is there timeshare sales people in the lobby do not leave you alone. Do not take the $50 bait plus dinner for two at the buffet to sit through there 90 minute presentation (actually it runs 2 and 1/2 hours).

If you are actually gambling and do not mind a complete dive, go next door to the Imperial Palace. It is old, dirty and a scumbag clientèle - but they serve you your free drinks while gambling faster than any other casino in Vegas. This could be good or bad.

If you are looking for women, go to the Palms. After 11:00 pm, it seems every hot chick in Vegas is there.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: bdimag ()
Date: August 06, 2007 12:13PM

Nik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lurker. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah, the bartender is not suppose to give away
> > any free drinks.
> >
> > 2) It also illegal to advertise alcolol
> specials
> > outside of the bar like $1 bottle night.
> >
> > 3) There is also a law as to what a bartender
> can
> > wear. No skimpy outfits.
>
>
> Is it actually enforced?


Uh.. the bartenders will do it - but if their manager catches on, they could get fired because of the risk to the business if ABC ever came by and saw the...

I went to the bar i used to work at again last night.. free beers and a burger.. only paid tip.. but again if somebody catches on, they're prolly screwed..

---

as far as the ABCs open on sunday - it looks like only NOVA and VA Beach/Norfolk: http://www.abc.state.va.us/stores/sundayOpenings.htm

...

is that true about the Moose Lodge? how do you think they would feel if a bunch of shithead 21 year olds joined up? :) and what the hell do they do in there? be moosey?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2007 12:16PM by bdimag.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 06, 2007 05:20PM

I dont know about what it takes to be a moose club member but it applies to all clubs. I was once in Virginia Beach and when the bars started to close a bar opened up the street. They said they were a private club and to join you had to pay the annual dues which was $5.00 at the door and be sworn in as a member.
We paid the dues took the oath and didnt stop drinking til 4 am.
Of course the law caught on and they had to stop that but it was inventive.

I can try and find the code section but it had something to do with the club being treated almost as a private home in most ways. No only two drinks at one time rule, no last call and mix all the drinks you want. Anyone on here a moose club member or know of someone and can ask?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 06, 2007 05:22PM

The Flamingo is a decent hotel. They try to be upscale and do not do a bad
job of it. My complaint is there timeshare sales people


I've stayed there 5 or 6 times before, it's my favorite place to stay out there. Best location on the Strip.

As far as timeshare people- do what I do: They almost always immediately ask you where you're from. Just tell them you're from Henderson or North Las Vegas, they never waste their time trying to sell to someone who is local.

Also, I love Imperial Palace. It's sorta crummy looking and at 3AM the craps pit is usually filled with weirdos. It's my kinda joint, I'm sure I'll be there on our all-night gambling adventure this Friday.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 06, 2007 08:09PM

I stay at Excaliber as it is close to the airport and on the strip. The prices are good and the rooms are ok but they dont have the sportsbook most others do. The Hilton used to have a great sportsbook but it is off the strip so I dont usually slide down there.
I guess for the best sportsbook Caesars is pretty good.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 06, 2007 08:58PM

Excaliber

Excalibur has a sports book. I stayed there for one night a few years ago, it's not a bad place like alot of people say. The casino smelled like stale beer/ashtrays and was sorta disheveled, but the room was clean and was a great bargain. My personal favorite sports book is Bally's, I watched the second weekend of March Madness there a couple years ago- excellent stadium seating. Stardust was the coolest sports book, but I guess now Caesar's takes the lead on the "awesome" sports books. I like it, there must be 200 TV's in there, but I just hate that mammothly confusing casino layout they have going on over there.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: duh ()
Date: August 06, 2007 09:00PM

I've always had a blast at every VFW I've been in. I've been in a bunch of them as a guest of a member (Like Dick Cheney, I had "other priorities" during the Vietnam War).

Those folks sure know how to run a barroom!

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 06, 2007 10:29PM

I know Excaliber has a sportsbook just not a very big one. I think it is Stardust that most others get their lines from.
March Madness and the Super Bowl are killer in Caesars. The noise is about the same as the airport when planes take off.

I often wonder how many people lost their money with the crooked NBA ref who was on the take.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 06, 2007 10:36PM

Stardust that most others get their lines from.

The Stardust is no more. It got knocked down last winter.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 07, 2007 05:31PM

How come I still see lines posted from the Stardust? It is usually three or four lines posted with the odds Stardust, Casesars and I cant think of the other two.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 07, 2007 05:38PM

Time Game Team Stardust Mirage Olympic

This is how I see the odds on an internet site taking bets. Maybe they got the rights to the name or something. Wasnt it the stardust that the movie Casino was based on?

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 07, 2007 05:48PM

Boyd Gaming might still be publishing the line under the name "Stardust", but the casino/hotel is definitely not there anymore. They're building some kind of condominium complex on that site, I thing Boyd's actually the developer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2007 05:48PM by TheMeeper.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: caddy shack ()
Date: August 07, 2007 10:00PM

I started going to Vegas back in the 80's and the mob was just losing ground to the mega casinos. I stayed at a place called Vegas World. It was very cheesy but very reasonable. They had a great deal on rooms and gambling credits.
That being said I will shut up knowing this is way off topic for Fairfax forum.
thanks

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: August 07, 2007 10:09PM

Vegas World

Haha. That's now the Statosphere. The casino is huge and sorta OK, but the hotel is not worth the deal they give you. I've stayed one night there and it's like a Motel 6 and sorta cramped. It's far away from stuff.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: End the ABC ()
Date: December 30, 2011 12:51PM

Found a couple of articles basically tracking back the issues of the ABC and regulation of alcohol sales places. The state of virginia will always remain terminally uncool as long as ABC and the state has their hands all over the bars.



http://thetysonscorner.com/blog/?p=406

http://www.readthehook.com/101125/abcf-whats-wrong-state-alcohol-laws

Has there been any petitions formed for this issue? With as big of a young population as there is in Northern Virginia I'm sure you could find people to sign one if it meant that the people who own bars in this area could stop having shitty ones for yuppies and make some for non-assholes like the rest of us.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: hoocoodanode ()
Date: December 30, 2011 03:49PM


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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: theres been talk ()
Date: December 30, 2011 03:54PM

End the ABC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Found a couple of articles basically tracking back
> the issues of the ABC and regulation of alcohol
> sales places. The state of virginia will always
> remain terminally uncool as long as ABC and the
> state has their hands all over the bars.
>
>
>
> http://thetysonscorner.com/blog/?p=406
>
> http://www.readthehook.com/101125/abcf-whats-wrong
> -state-alcohol-laws
>
> Has there been any petitions formed for this
> issue? With as big of a young population as there
> is in Northern Virginia I'm sure you could find
> people to sign one if it meant that the people who
> own bars in this area could stop having shitty
> ones for yuppies and make some for non-assholes
> like the rest of us.


We live in a high end yuppie area for the most part. Those are the places that make money with some exceptions like the fast eddies of the area. There has been talk of privatizing the ABC stores though to save money for the state. Basically they just dont want VA to look like NJ with liquor stores everywhere covered in signs ect. That and theres already a ton of places that sell beer to underage kids and just risk they wont get caught which doesnt help the cause since underage sales at ABC stores are basically nonexistent

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: In PA ()
Date: December 30, 2011 07:01PM

You cannot buy beer or wine in your local supermarket. No 7-11's. It is a pain in the ass.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: makes no sense ()
Date: December 30, 2011 07:04PM

In PA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot buy beer or wine in your local
> supermarket. No 7-11's. It is a pain in the ass.


PA is really weird. You have to have beer stores, but bars can sell take home beers. Makes no sense

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Take home beers ()
Date: December 30, 2011 07:25PM

In Pa they for $2.00 a can in take home style. Crazy.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: bell ()
Date: December 30, 2011 08:24PM

Yes, technically mixing of those drinks, i.e. sangria is illegal in VA. This is an old law that is still on the books dating back from prohibition. It is not enforced and you never see people getting into trouble for this. Many restaurants even have them on the menu. BUT, I do recall some years back a bartender in Crystal City was cited for serving a sangria. It was even on the restaurants menu. I didn't hear anything about it afterwards and I'm sure it was dropped.

Many states have weird laws that are old as dirt that aren't enforced. Maryland, it is illegal to give or receive oral sex and where in the state. In NC it is still legal to beat your wife on the court house steps on sunday. In the military, under the UCMJ, it is illegal to have sex in any other position other than missionary. Any there are many more crazy laws out there.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Fomo ()
Date: December 30, 2011 08:29PM

Very weird.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Date: December 30, 2011 08:56PM

bell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, technically mixing of those drinks, i.e.
> sangria is illegal in VA. This is an old law that
> is still on the books dating back from
> prohibition. It is not enforced and you never see
> people getting into trouble for this. Many
> restaurants even have them on the menu. BUT, I do
> recall some years back a bartender in Crystal City
> was cited for serving a sangria. It was even on
> the restaurants menu. I didn't hear anything about
> it afterwards and I'm sure it was dropped.
>
Actually, I think the sangria law was repealed a year or two back.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: curious ()
Date: December 30, 2011 10:03PM

Sangria was changed (last year maybe?)

Here's another weird one- no hard booze in strip clubs, only beer!

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: no longer talking ()
Date: December 30, 2011 10:56PM

theres been talk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...There has been talk of privatizing the ABC stores
> though to save money for the state...


Save money? Not quite.

McDonnell proposed selling the ABC stores (probably to his big donors). But once it was proven how much money the State would LOSE, he couldn't even get the Republicans to vote for it.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Date: December 30, 2011 10:57PM

I do not think his big donors were standing to gain. Folks like major grocery stores and Costco were going to be the big winners.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: theres been talk ()
Date: December 30, 2011 11:04PM

no longer talking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> theres been talk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...There has been talk of privatizing the ABC
> stores
> > though to save money for the state...
>
>
> Save money? Not quite.
>
> McDonnell proposed selling the ABC stores
> (probably to his big donors). But once it was
> proven how much money the State would LOSE, he
> couldn't even get the Republicans to vote for it.


It would depend on how it was done. Youd save money on overhead and employees and still get all the taxes from it you just wouldnt get the per bottle profit. As the guy above said it wouldnt be his donors that gained itd be chains that can get booze dirt cheap like a costco and then sell it cheaply in bulk and make their money that way.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: no longer talking ()
Date: December 31, 2011 12:52AM

theres been talk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would depend on how it was done. Youd save
> money on overhead and employees and still get all
> the taxes from it you just wouldnt get the per
> bottle profit. As the guy above said it wouldnt
> be his donors that gained itd be chains that can
> get booze dirt cheap like a costco and then sell
> it cheaply in bulk and make their money that way.


Oh, so big corporations don't make political donations? Wow, I learn something new everyday!

This per bottle profit that you dismiss as insignificant brings in hundreds of millions every year. With ABC's buying power, can you imagine the price they pay per bottle vs what they sell it for?

Bottom line, no matter what creative accounting methods McDonnell came up with, selling off the ABC would have blown a huge hole in State revenues, that would have HAD to be made up somewhere. The thing had no support even from McD's own party, it was DOA. That says it all.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: theres been talk ()
Date: December 31, 2011 01:01AM

no longer talking Wrote:

>
> Oh, so big corporations don't make political
> donations? Wow, I learn something new everyday!
>
> This per bottle profit that you dismiss as
> insignificant brings in hundreds of millions every
> year. With ABC's buying power, can you imagine
> the price they pay per bottle vs what they sell it
> for?
>
> Bottom line, no matter what creative accounting
> methods McDonnell came up with, selling off the
> ABC would have blown a huge hole in State
> revenues, that would have HAD to be made up
> somewhere. The thing had no support even from
> McD's own party, it was DOA. That says it all.


The per bottle profit is also largely cut into by the massive amount of overhead they have to have, employee salaries and retirement, store costs ect. Theres many many reasons people were against it aside from money not the least of which was underage buyers and how trashy liquor stores look in some other places

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Gayer Than Liberace ()
Date: December 31, 2011 08:16AM

The only thing gayer than Liberace is TALKING ABOUT Las Vegas. You're either there or you're not, and you're NOT.

Wait a minute, talking about how you USED to work at a bar is also gayer than Liberace.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: no longer talking ()
Date: December 31, 2011 09:14AM

theres been talk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The per bottle profit is also largely cut into by
> the massive amount of overhead they have to have,
> employee salaries and retirement, store costs ect.


If that were true, McDonnell would have been successful and the ABC board would no longer exist.

The several hundred million ABC brings in every year is the NET, not the gross.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: End the ABC ()
Date: December 31, 2011 12:39PM

So liquor stores look trashy, ok, so deal with that with zoning requirements and architectural requirements that are done for all sorts of other industries. Just say yer not allowed neon liquor signs or simply have 1 sign or look that all private stores would have. I mean ABC is a liquor store, and last time I checked it doesn't look like a trashy turnpike ghetto store. I think the problem with Jersey is that its Jersey, not that it has liquor stores.

By having privatized liquor stores we could finally have the type of selection that other states get so we could stop overpaying for gentleman jack and instead get good whiskeys from upstate newyork, or tequila other than the same 5 that ABC carries everywhere. Yes I know you can order more online too than whats in the store but regardless by privatizing, different vendors will attempt to meet different markets just like wine and beer places have.
And at the end of the day this bullshit about food sales with bars needs to go away cause its forcing bars to upkeep something they dont wanna do sometimes instead of investing more money into making badass bars, instead we get mediocre food and mediocre atmosphere, the worst of both worlds.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: December 31, 2011 01:00PM

I believe you can special order liquor through ABC.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: sell them ()
Date: December 31, 2011 01:19PM

No one should have a monopoly on any type of product especially the state

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: otis campbell ()
Date: December 31, 2011 01:26PM

The power of choice would keep private run liquor stores in line. Look at Verizon when they tried to pull the you owe us $2.00 if you want to pay the bill we sent you.
Only the threat of customers bailing kept them from totally fucking over their consumer.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: theres been talk ()
Date: December 31, 2011 02:51PM

End the ABC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So liquor stores look trashy, ok, so deal with
> that with zoning requirements and architectural
> requirements that are done for all sorts of other
> industries. Just say yer not allowed neon liquor
> signs or simply have 1 sign or look that all
> private stores would have. I mean ABC is a liquor
> store, and last time I checked it doesn't look
> like a trashy turnpike ghetto store. I think the
> problem with Jersey is that its Jersey, not that
> it has liquor stores.
>
> By having privatized liquor stores we could
> finally have the type of selection that other
> states get so we could stop overpaying for
> gentleman jack and instead get good whiskeys from
> upstate newyork, or tequila other than the same 5
> that ABC carries everywhere. Yes I know you can
> order more online too than whats in the store but
> regardless by privatizing, different vendors will
> attempt to meet different markets just like wine
> and beer places have.
> And at the end of the day this bullshit about food
> sales with bars needs to go away cause its forcing
> bars to upkeep something they dont wanna do
> sometimes instead of investing more money into
> making badass bars, instead we get mediocre food
> and mediocre atmosphere, the worst of both worlds.


You make some good points, but youre forgetting the state just doesnt care that much. You could have laws for the liquor store signs and stuff but we all know people would break them and it still wouldnt solve the liquor stores selling to underage kids.

The private stores would be nice just since itd be cheaper. But we will never have just bars in VA that dont need food. The state doesnt want you getting hammered which is why a bar with no food is for. Those requirements arent very hard to get around anyway. All you basically have to do is put out a buffet like patriots does and you can get your numbers where they need to be. Wasteful yes, but easy to do

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: say ()
Date: December 31, 2011 03:06PM

OK, privatize the ABC. End the monopoly!

Now, what taxes do you want raise (a lot) to replace the ABC money? Sales? Income? Gasoline?

Wake up people, something has to replace that revenue.

Personally, I like it the way it is. I haven't set foot in an ABC store in more than a decade (I just matured to the point that getting stupid drunk no longer had any appeal). Those other taxes I mentioned would impact me (big time).

Let's hear suggestions for alternative revenue sources

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Date: December 31, 2011 05:13PM

otis campbell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The power of choice would keep private run liquor
> stores in line. Look at Verizon when they tried to
> pull the you owe us $2.00 if you want to pay the
> bill we sent you.
> Only the threat of customers bailing kept them
> from totally fucking over their consumer.


I am honestly surprised that Verizon caved on this. A lot of folks that have Verizon service (be it land line, FIOS or cell) are locked into a contract - 1 or 2 years. If you were in a contract, I am not seeing how you could "bail" on your contract over a $2.00 convience fee - especially when the "early termination" fee is close to $200.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Old Crow ()
Date: December 31, 2011 05:19PM

say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, privatize the ABC. End the monopoly!
>
> Now, what taxes do you want raise (a lot) to
> replace the ABC money? Sales? Income? Gasoline?
>
> Wake up people, something has to replace that
> revenue.
>
> Personally, I like it the way it is. I haven't
> set foot in an ABC store in more than a decade (I
> just matured to the point that getting stupid
> drunk no longer had any appeal). Those other
> taxes I mentioned would impact me (big time).
>
> Let's hear suggestions for alternative revenue
> sources


Exactly. Like most Republican initiatives, privatization would be good for a shot in the arm and nothing else. Just like Bob's "transportation plan" where he took on a bunch of debt but has still failed to adequately fund year-to-year improvements or maintenance. Unfortunately the idiots who vote here don't see past next week.

It also is usually a sweet deal for anyone buying the assets. They rarely sell government assets at market value for some reason. After Bobby McD left office, the next guy would have to figure out how to make up for the shortfall the ABC revenue used to pay for.

I say keep ABC the way it is, and if anything, expand the selection or allow people to order things they don't stock. I'd love to be able to order some bottle of scotch they don't feel like stocking.

Ever lived in a state with private liquor stores? You get shady looking shit hole stores with some red-nosed drunkard working the counter.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: they couldnt ()
Date: December 31, 2011 05:19PM

Pinhead the Cenobite Wrote:

>
> I am honestly surprised that Verizon caved on
> this. A lot of folks that have Verizon service
> (be it land line, FIOS or cell) are locked into a
> contract - 1 or 2 years. If you were in a
> contract, I am not seeing how you could "bail" on
> your contract over a $2.00 convience fee -
> especially when the "early termination" fee is
> close to $200.


Theres nothing you could have really done, however if people threatened not to renew their contract when it was up it would have the same effect as threatening to leave

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Date: December 31, 2011 05:30PM

Old Crow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ever lived in a state with private liquor stores?
> You get shady looking shit hole stores with some
> red-nosed drunkard working the counter.

Yes, I have lived in two states with private liquor stores. You walk into a 1) Safeway, 2) CVS, 3) Costco, 5) Liquor Barn, 5) Trader Joes, or 6) any other grocery store. You pick up your favorite booze. You walk to the check stand. And, the same nice checker boy/girl that would ring up your eggs, ice cream, and romaine lettuce rings up your booze. No scuz. No shit holes.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 05:30PM by Pinhead the Cenobite.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: Olde Farte ()
Date: December 31, 2011 05:36PM

Old Crow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I say keep ABC the way it is, and if anything,
> expand the selection or allow people to order
> things they don't stock. I'd love to be able to
> order some bottle of scotch they don't feel like
> stocking.

>>> "...If the product you are seeking is not available in this catalog,
>>> ask the store manager to contact our Special Order Department. Special
>>> orders that are not in our catalog must be purchased by the case and
>>> must be obtainable from a source within the continental United States..."

http://www.abc.virginia.gov/SpecialOrder/sporder.html

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Date: December 31, 2011 05:41PM

Old Crow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> say Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, privatize the ABC. End the monopoly!
> >
> > Now, what taxes do you want raise (a lot) to
> > replace the ABC money? Sales? Income?
> Gasoline?
> >
> > Wake up people, something has to replace that
> > revenue.
> >
> > Personally, I like it the way it is. I haven't
> > set foot in an ABC store in more than a decade
> (I
> > just matured to the point that getting stupid
> > drunk no longer had any appeal). Those other
> > taxes I mentioned would impact me (big time).
> >
> > Let's hear suggestions for alternative revenue
> > sources
>
>
> Exactly. Like most Republican initiatives,
> privatization would be good for a shot in the arm
> and nothing else. Just like Bob's "transportation
> plan" where he took on a bunch of debt but has
> still failed to adequately fund year-to-year
> improvements or maintenance. Unfortunately the
> idiots who vote here don't see past next week.
>
> It also is usually a sweet deal for anyone buying
> the assets. They rarely sell government assets at
> market value for some reason. After Bobby McD
> left office, the next guy would have to figure out
> how to make up for the shortfall the ABC revenue
> used to pay for.
>
> I say keep ABC the way it is, and if anything,
> expand the selection or allow people to order
> things they don't stock. I'd love to be able to
> order some bottle of scotch they don't feel like
> stocking.
>
> Ever lived in a state with private liquor stores?
> You get shady looking shit hole stores with some
> red-nosed drunkard working the counter.


Here is Ralphs - akin to Giant:



The outside of a Ralphs



Yep, very shady.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: End the ABC ()
Date: January 01, 2012 12:47PM

Yea again, these images of shitty looking liquor stores are usually an effect of a shitty area, not the other way around. Im pretty sure in Fairfax, Tysons, and Arlington you would see the same effect as high end liquor just like total wines and beer retailers. The owners of these stores wouldnt want to scare off all the high end users in this area by making a caged up neon neighborhood menace.

As far as other revenue sources, you could privatize but increase the tax rate required to be a private liquor store. I'm pretty sure people will still want a piece of the private pie in this state and would pay the extra tax. Beyond this part of the new revenue we could again increase tax rate on bars that dont want to serve food. I know you say that bars without food are just for drunkards, but there are a shit load of drunk people leaving every "restaurant" bar I go to, so thats moot.
Secondly so many places aren't fiscally solvent because of the fact that they do exactly what you said, essentially waste a bunch of money on the food part just to keep in business. Instead of that wasted money they could be doing better drink selections, using money on entertainment so I dont have to watch "Junkfood" every weekend, or god forbid picking a location that works, not just a cheap one that forces its customers to drive.
BTW I am definitely not republican, I dont think it's a republican/dem issue, I am simply against all monopolies and dumb out dated laws due to pre-decided notions on what a "bar" really means. If the state is afraid of people getting drunk and doing illegal things they need to recognize that food being sold at the restaurant, or liquor being sold at ABCs, has nothing to do with those more prevalent social issues.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: say ()
Date: January 01, 2012 02:16PM

It ain't about aesthetics, it's about money.

Like the other guy said, McDonnell tried every accounting trick in the book and selling the ABC would be a one-time windfall and then the State would lose big. That dog just wouldn't hunt! If you want private liquor stores, you have to be willig to pay higher taxes elswhere, period.

No way they could tax private liquor sales enough to make up for the lost revenue. People already go to MD and DC for lower prices. It would open the floodgates. In areas too far from the State line you could have "bootlegging" starting up, where people bring in cheaper out-of-state liquor and sell it at a profit. Sort of like how they smuggle cigarettes into New York.

You youngsters ain't seen stupid Va alcohol laws! I'm too young for Social Security and I remember when you couldn't get a mixed drink anywhere in Virginia. Liquor was sold for off-premises use ONLY.

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Re: Stupid VA alcohol laws
Posted by: theres been talk ()
Date: January 01, 2012 02:55PM

End the ABC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea again, these images of shitty looking liquor
> stores are usually an effect of a shitty area, not
> the other way around. Im pretty sure in Fairfax,
> Tysons, and Arlington you would see the same
> effect as high end liquor just like total wines
> and beer retailers. The owners of these stores
> wouldnt want to scare off all the high end users
> in this area by making a caged up neon
> neighborhood menace.
>
> As far as other revenue sources, you could
> privatize but increase the tax rate required to be
> a private liquor store. I'm pretty sure people
> will still want a piece of the private pie in this
> state and would pay the extra tax. Beyond this
> part of the new revenue we could again increase
> tax rate on bars that dont want to serve food. I
> know you say that bars without food are just for
> drunkards, but there are a shit load of drunk
> people leaving every "restaurant" bar I go to, so
> thats moot.
> Secondly so many places aren't fiscally solvent
> because of the fact that they do exactly what you
> said, essentially waste a bunch of money on the
> food part just to keep in business. Instead of
> that wasted money they could be doing better drink
> selections, using money on entertainment so I dont
> have to watch "Junkfood" every weekend, or god
> forbid picking a location that works, not just a
> cheap one that forces its customers to drive.
> BTW I am definitely not republican, I dont think
> it's a republican/dem issue, I am simply against
> all monopolies and dumb out dated laws due to
> pre-decided notions on what a "bar" really means.
> If the state is afraid of people getting drunk and
> doing illegal things they need to recognize that
> food being sold at the restaurant, or liquor being
> sold at ABCs, has nothing to do with those more
> prevalent social issues.


I dont disagree with a lot of that, but the state will. We all know that people get drunk at normal restaurants even though technically the restaurant isnt supposed to serve people that much. Just like if there were bars that only had booze people would and wouldnt get drunk. The difference is the appearance. If the place has food and is a restaurant ect it has a better image than somewhere people know is there for one purpose and one purpose only is drinking. A lot of this wouldnt even just be the state fairfax county is against all of this as well.

I agree theres a lot more to this than just money. Theres ways to keep the money the same without impacting other things.

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