Forum Reader:

Woodson actually got IB at least a year before SL. By the time Woodson's anti-IB group had finished and passed their boxes of propaganda to you, IB was just getting up and running at SL. That's how you were able to pass the propaganda out at every IB info meeting held at SL and plaster it on every windshield that you could. Your attempts failed but I guess you are like Inspector Javert, you have to keep on with your quest.

I have proposed many ways in which you can try to work productively from within your community to facilitate changes at South Lakes, but it is very obvious that you don't give a damn about your own community school. In fact, I will bet that you advocated against your own community school last night. Because you have alienated yourself against the community, your arguments fall mostly on deaf ears.

Too bad for you. Of course, if you change your mind I will still welcome your input.

FOX MILL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Fox Mill has to go, by George, we're taking
> someone with us!!! We are not going to be thrown
> to the wolves alone. At least Floris and Fox Mill
> kilds will know each other from Carson.


uhh, thanks, Erika. Hey Fox Mill also knows McNair kids or are you already so much like South Lakes, that you don't hang around any of those kids?

I think South Lakes High School should be renamed next year, much in the same way West Potomac came to be in the merger of Groveton and Fort Hunt High.

The new name should be "Utopia High School". Any other suggestions?

Flurries,

I guess that fact that McNair did not want to be split between Herndon and South Lakes eluded you? They are all for option 5.

Quit all your complaining. You elected all these liberals and now you have to live with them. School redistriciting is just their way of pplitical correctness.
One way or another they are going to get you to attend school with the very same people you moved away from in the first place.
If you dont mind your kids joining a gang or being robbed everyday then next time vote conservative.

Flurries Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FOX MILL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Fox Mill has to go, by George, we're taking
> > someone with us!!! We are not going to be
> thrown
> > to the wolves alone. At least Floris and Fox
> Mill
> > kilds will know each other from Carson.
>
>
> uhh, thanks, Erika. Hey Fox Mill also knows
> McNair kids or are you already so much like South
> Lakes, that you don't hang around any of those
> kids?

And wouldn't it be funny if it was the half, urrr the quarter of Floris you didn't know

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flurries,
>
> I guess that fact that McNair did not want to be
> split between Herndon and South Lakes eluded you?
> They are all for option 5.


Of course they are, it keeps their school intact and at Westfield, duh. Even though they are already split.

Oh, and I guess it would be pretty uncomfortable for them to like some option that has them showing up at South Lakes, considering all of the unkind South Lakes' points directed at the McNair population. That had to have been a bit awkward for those McNair parents to read those points out loud last night. Or were they given a sanitized version?

But otherwise I can't even IMAGINE why they are all for Option 5. But I bet Mr. More and quantum could set the record staight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 06:09PM by Flurries.

Cactus Jack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quit all your complaining. You elected all these
> liberals and now you have to live with them.
> School redistriciting is just their way of
> pplitical correctness.
> One way or another they are going to get you to
> attend school with the very same people you moved
> away from in the first place.
> If you dont mind your kids joining a gang or being
> robbed everyday then next time vote conservative.



And then they'll spend all your money, enrich their close pals, and get us working folks killed. Hell yeah!! That's what I'm talking about.

I agree with Hippie Bill....probably only time I would agree with a Hippie ;)

This entire redistricting is a pet project of Stu Gibson, the San Francisco Liberal who wants to push his "utopia" on me and my neighbors. South lakes has been a red herring for many years and the board has ignored it and now they want my children as guinea pigs to play "Can't we all just get along" high school musical. Where is Saint Rodney King when you need him..??

As for renaming the school....what's that old saying....you can cover a pile of %*@# in honey but it's still a pile of......

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see TM is using a pseudonym today.
>
> I have a question for everyone nitpicking about .5
> miles here or there and the 'quick' trip to
> Westfield vs. the arduous one to SL: How many of
> you would send your children to TJ if they were
> accepted? Be honest.:)
>
> Until last February, I worked outside of the home
> and drove through the heart of Reston at 7 am,
> because that way I avoided the worse traffic at
> 8am. If you want to call me a liar, go ahead, but
> it doesn't change the truth.
>
> Also, I am neither part of the SB or SL PTSA. I
> am a private citizen in the SL District and I am
> self-employed. I can work any time I wish, and do
> so frequently. One of the beauties of working from
> home.

the truth is that you are full of crap.

I live in fairfax and experience rush hour.. from 6:30 - 9:30 driving towards and through reston from Fairfax/Chantilly is a nightmare on both west ox and 7700.


if you were self employed you would not have the time to spend every day on this message board spewing your BS

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader:
>
> Woodson actually got IB at least a year before SL.
> By the time Woodson's anti-IB group had finished
> and passed their boxes of propaganda to you, IB
> was just getting up and running at SL. ...
>
> I have proposed many ways in which you can try to
> work productively from within your community to
> facilitate changes at South Lakes, but it is very
> obvious that you don't give a damn about your own
> community school. In fact, I will bet that you
> advocated against your own community school last
> night. Because you have alienated yourself
> against the community, your arguments fall mostly
> on deaf ears.
>
> Too bad for you. Of course, if you change your
> mind I will still welcome your input.

----------
I was here back then, and involved in my own community school. Were you?

I continue to point out facts, which is different from calling you a liar:

Page 129 of the 2000 Approved budget:
"South Lakes and Woodson IB -- $57,104 -- 1.0 position
This program expansion funding supports the full implementation of the IB program at South Lake ($28,377) and Woodson ($28,727) High Schools. The total of $57,104 includes the increase of the IB coordinator position at South Lakes and Woodson High Schools fro .5 to 1.0..."

Page 203 of the FY 2001 Approved Budget:
"International Baccalaureate (IB) High School Programme
...The School Board approved implementation of the International Baccalaureate Programme at ... South Lakes and Woodson High Schools in FY 2000."

The money for the IB Programme was sent to South Lakes the same time it was sent to Woodson. Are you accusing the South Lakes staff of fraud, that they took the money without implementing IB?

In the Spirit of the Season, I offer you the same gift. I will welcome your input if you change your mind and become willing to reconsider IB. Or you can choose to keep IB without giving the new families any choice, and thus give them an easy-out to pupil-place out of South Lakes.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flurries,
>
> I guess that fact that McNair did not want to be
> split between Herndon and South Lakes eluded you?
> They are all for option 5.


I dunno, we had seven or eight McNair parents in my classroom last night and all were strongly opposed to the option. So I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

I agree with the comments by Floris Parent.

It reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw a few election cycles ago....
"Why is the Party of Tolerance so INTOLERANT of opposing views..??"

I always get a kick out of that saying. Liberals will never be tolerant of opposing views. At least conservatives don't pretend to be....

Trash the Fairfax County Boundary Study!

Hark the herald school board speaks:
Let’s ruin their holidays as the boundaries we tweak

We owe no allegiance to tax-paying citizens in our county
Especially with the election results as our holiday bounty

We’ll do some back-stage dealing to leave some key schools out
That’ll really make the affected families scream and shout

By excluding schools like Langley and most of Madison, too
Parents’ sense of unfairness about this sham will make them turn blue

But who cares about these families as we play the South Lakes’ hand
And pretend to have a fair process, only to vote on our pre-approved plan

We’ll make up some rationale about over-crowding at some schools
We don’t have to do this right, because we don’t obey the rules

Tell them this will improve extracurricular activities, like football and cheer
That there’ll be IB instead of AP, so don’t worry, be happy, and have no fear

The commute will be better and your neighborhoods will stay together
We’ll eliminate split feeders and there’ll be no more bad weather

So give us your inputs, we’ll listen and take action as we move forward in time
And when we send you downstream to South Lakes, please drop us a line

Pitting neighbors and communities against each other has caused quite a fuss
We watched the wheeling and dealing as some were thrown under the bus

But we couldn’t see it all in the first meeting with our backs to the crowd
The Stop Re-Districting voices got really loud

And at the second meeting when parents liked Option 3 best of all
We decided to go with South Lakes’ Option 5 so the process would stall

We call this our Alternative Boundary Study Scenario
The joke is on the affected communities, ho ho ho

Let’s go for the underdogs who’ve had the most changes and boundary studies
And when we play the divide and conquer game they’ll really feel cruddy

What fun it is to sit on our thrones as power games we play
Welcome to Fairfax County, y’all come back now, and have a nice day!

The Ironic Forger

SLVerity said that she was self-employed. SLPadre said that he was self-employed. SubmissiveWiirNot (remember that guy?) said he was self-employed. Berdhuis, said he was unemployed.

SLVerity -
I drive my son to Westfield (on the mornings he uses up all the hot water rather than getting out of the showers...). I also drive work in Tysons from my house, sometimes via South Lakes. At rush hour, the time is a little lower to Westfield since it's via 28 rather than waiting through multiple light cycles to cross the two parkways.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have friends living in Bradley(sp) Farms and
> Monroe Manor/Sycamore Lakes areas. I live
> literally next door to SLHS. I can promise you it
> takes me 10-12 minutes to reach their homes. I
> drove to Westfield for the last meeting by way of
> the areas indicated on option 5 moving to SL.
> From the area furthest out (from SL), it took me
> 23+ minutes to reach Westfield,and I had to cross
> several major roads. Unfortunately for Floris,
> much of the area is not really close to any high
> school, which is too bad for the Floris area, and
> I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I just think
> it explains why your area has been targeted many
> times. My friends in Loudon have experienced
> similar moves. I guess it is always the case in
> areas with fast and high growth.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see TM is using a pseudonym today.
>
> I have a question for everyone nitpicking about .5
> miles here or there and the 'quick' trip to
> Westfield vs. the arduous one to SL: How many of
> you would send your children to TJ if they were
> accepted? Be honest.:)
>

SLVerity -
I certainly would.

Of course, I'd also send my kid to Chicago before I'd send him to NOVA.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Good luck pupil placing. But be careful what you
> wish for, you might get Herndon instead of
> Westfield as you are probably closer to Herndon as
> well.

Understood. I'd obviously prefer Westfield since my oldest is there. But unlike those planning AP as a get out of jail free card, I'd actually do it because my kids are math/science types & AP is simply much better for math/science than IB. If they were humanities types, I might consider pupil placing to SL if we weren't being moved to the district. Or at least I might have before this unholy mess.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLV -
>
>
> If SLHS is so great, why are they insisting on
> keeping the IB program? County-wide data indicate
> that the top performing schools have AP programs
> and the lowest performing ones have IB. If SLHS
> wants to become a top notch school, they have to
> ditch IB. I still can't get over how many SLHS
> advocates tell the non-SLHS advocates that we are
> the ones who are close minded and need to
> diversify, yet they are the ones who are
> close-minded and will not even entertain the
> notion of diversifying. Unbelievable to me.

Floris Parent -
I agree about ditching IB because I strongly prefer AP (at least for math/science).

However, IB did not cause SL to go down hill. The Board put IB in a number of the then lowest performing schools in a misguided attempt to get the in district "advantaged" kids to stay and out of district ones to pupil place to those schools.

They failed.

I have questions:

1) What will Stu Gibson gain if the redistricting goes through?

2) Does anyone actually use AP credits to get through college faster? I never heard of AP until I went to one of them fancy Ivy League Schools and found out everybody in my calculus had already taken it in high school and were taking it again to get an easy A! I thought college admission officers just cared if a student was taking as many of the most challenging courses as possible at his school...so does it really matter if they don't get as many credits with AP as IB? A lot of things are changing with the AP program (probably because of the competition from the IB people...)

3) Do you think that if all the SL kids went to Oakton and all the Oakton kids went to SL that the average scores would also flip? i.e. do you really think that it's the teachers at Oakton that are better that are causing the higher scores? You don't think it's more likely correlated with the income and attention of the parents living there?

Thanks!

Future Seahawk Wrote:

> Conclusion - OAK HILL HIGH SCHOOL - Unit McNair,
> Floris, Coppermine, Fox Mill, and Oak Hill into a
> local, community high school for Oak Hill - what
> Westfield should have been.

If our mathematically challenged staff had done proper projections 8-10 years ago and if our SB had actually read their thirty year old policy on numbers of students per high school, the 800 over at Chantilly and 1100 over at Westfield would fit very nicely. Notice also that Carson would feed one high school instead of 5.

The liberals saw Fairfax as prime hunting ground. A county with lots of money wanting to fit in with big city ideas like New York and San Fran.
Now they shove all their liberal ideas down your throats and you cry foul.
Instead of kids learning basics in school they are being taught cultural diversity and why Sara has two moms. Great skills for their future job as Walmart Greeter.

When Fairfax was run by Republican conservatives they had a budget surplus. After a decade of democratic rule they now have 100 million dollar deficit and growing. In case you havent noticied there is no talk of budget talks only tax increases.

GIBSON ADMITS VIOLATION OF STUDENT'S PRIVACY RIGHTS AND APOLOGIZES.

School Board votes not to appeal notice of violation issue by the Virginia Department of Education and to undertake remedial educate of school board members on privacy rights of students.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 10:24PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GIBSON ADMITS VIOLATION OF STUDENT'S PRIVACY
> RIGHTS AND APOLOGIZES.
>
> School Board votes not to appeal notice of
> violation issue by the Virginia Department of
> Education and to undertake remedial educate of
> school board members on privacy rights of
> students.

Assuming this is real -

Apology is not acceptable. Removal is.

Westfield Dad - Agreed, a flawed implementation of a program, does not necessarily make the program bad, it makes the implementation bad. That having been said, I think that if SLHS parents had taken the route that Woodson insisted on, after much debate, community input, work groups, and most importantly, parental input, they were able to insist on implementing AP. From a management perspective, I can't understand why it would make sense to implement a program that serves such a small percentage of the students.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader:
>
> Woodson actually got IB at least a year before SL.
> By the time Woodson's anti-IB group had finished
> and passed their boxes of propaganda to you, IB
> was just getting up and running at SL. That's how
> you were able to pass the propaganda out at every
> IB info meeting held at SL and plaster it on every
> windshield that you could. Your attempts failed
> but I guess you are like Inspector Javert, you
> have to keep on with your quest.
>
> I have proposed many ways in which you can try to
> work productively from within your community to
> facilitate changes at South Lakes, but it is very
> obvious that you don't give a damn about your own
> community school. In fact, I will bet that you
> advocated against your own community school last
> night. Because you have alienated yourself
> against the community, your arguments fall mostly
> on deaf ears.
>
> Too bad for you. Of course, if you change your
> mind I will still welcome your input.

Are you saying that Woodson parents were stupid and blindly accepted what they were told by other parents? And too dumb to believe what staff told them about IB?

>>>What ever gave you the impression that any PTA selects the curriculum for their school?<<<

South Lakes PTSA said it. You'll have to ask them why they are in charge at SL.

>>>SubmissiveWiirNot (remember that guy?)<<<

She was not a guy, but one of the South Lakes PTSA ladies. She left, just before Birdhuis joined us. Such a coincidence!

>>>1) What will Stu Gibson gain if the redistricting goes through?<<<

It will make his school, South Lakes, look better without having to actually educate anyone better. It will be easier to hide the low performing students.

>>>Does anyone actually use AP credits to get through college faster?<<<

Yes, many students get through faster because of AP classes. My son graduated in 3 years, with three engineering majors, thanks to AP classes.

And yes, smart kids in, smart kids out. That's exactly why South Lakes needs more high income kids, to make the school look better.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GIBSON ADMITS VIOLATION OF STUDENT'S PRIVACY
> > RIGHTS AND APOLOGIZES.
> >
> > School Board votes not to appeal notice of
> > violation issue by the Virginia Department of
> > Education and to undertake remedial educate of
> > school board members on privacy rights of
> > students.
>
> Assuming this is real -
>
> Apology is not acceptable. Removal is.


It's true, although Stu Gibson couldn't quite bring himself to admit an error and apologize. The school board had to do it for him. It does not negate what he did.

>>>I can't understand why it would make sense to implement a program that serves such a small percentage of the students.<<<

It has never made any sense and still doesn't. But reason and rationally never has anything to do with what our schools do. They do what the FEEL is right. They love IB, therefore schools without parents powerful enough to prevent it, got stuck with IB.

I guess after reading alot of this I couldn't decide were to start...

First let me say my son is a freshman at SL. He is in the IB or should I say preIB program. He is also an athlete. Football, basketball and laCrosse.

We have lived in Reston for 18 years. We love the diversity of Reston. Like anything there is good and bad. But as a whole the good far out weighs the bad.

We statred school...let's say through private school...mostly because we didn't like the lack of disicipline we saw everywhere.(Shopping malls, movie theaters, banks, grocery stores, schools, ect) This is a problem....that starts at home and should be handled there.

After 6 years of private school we decided our child would be better challenged in public school. He was in alot of ways but he coasted in other areas. It has now balanced out. I would be let's say not telling the truth if I didn't admit we were a bit affraid of SLHS...

...But I have to admitt we love it!!! The teachers, principal and staff go the extra mile from were we sit. My son carrys a full load of classes and he has a very busy schedule with sports. He has a 3.2 average. He likes SL.

He is not blind to what goes on around him. He knows that the parents and students from other schools look down their noses at him and the school he attends. But the way we look at it is. It works for us. It may not for you.

Like it or not the boundary changes are a fact. They are going to happen...the real question is where will the line be drawn. After reading all this I would be very happy if you who do not want to be here didn't come. Stay home. Home school your children or better yet pay for a private education. Another option is to
send them to SL and get your mind changed...


However, if you and your kids come and run down our school and our children...prepare for them to kick your kids AZZ. Not pretty but a fact. You either like us or you don't. We don't care but be respectful to us we are intitled to that same as you and your children are.






Sure there are alot of haves and alot of have nots...Reston...a vision...and it works.

>>>Reston...a vision...and it works.<<<

What on earth does that mean?

Just flew in from Palm Beach. I'm all mellow, a little too tan and I've definitely put on a few grams.

Anyway:


B.S. Alert


"I guess after reading alot of this I couldn't decide were to start"...

(It's overwhelming, but I'll take a stab at it)


"We love the diversity of Reston'.....

(If you don't like Reston, you are probably a racist.)


"we were a bit affraid of SLHS..."

(We, like you, had heard all those scary news reports and rumors, so we were very, very concerned)


But I have to admitt we love it!!!

(The stories you have heard are all lies; ALL LIES)


Sure there are alot of haves and alot of have nots...Reston...a vision...and it works.

(We in Reston have a dream. No more haves and no more have nots and I'm an idiot.)

And a solute to birdLover!
Attachments:

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>1) What will Stu Gibson gain if the
> redistricting goes through?<<<
>
> It will make his school, South Lakes, look better
> without having to actually educate anyone better.
> It will be easier to hide the low performing
> students.
>
> >>>Does anyone actually use AP credits to get
> through college faster?<<<
>
> Yes, many students get through faster because of
> AP classes. My son graduated in 3 years, with
> three engineering majors, thanks to AP classes.
>
> And yes, smart kids in, smart kids out. That's
> exactly why South Lakes needs more high income
> kids, to make the school look better.

Ok, so I think we agree that the scores are lower at SL because of non-instruction related factors, not because of the quality of instruction. However, from what I read and hear, most of the potential SL families are angry because they think their kid will not get as good an education at SL. However, it is obvious that anyone paying attention to all this is a caring, involved parent, and therefore, their kid is going to do just as well at SL as at any other FFX CTY school...and end up with the same SAT score...but, since the majority of folks just look at the averages when determining where to live based on the high school districts at that time, doesn't it make sense for a school board member to try to make sure the average scores for the schools in his district reflect what the population is crying out for? Sure, it would be better from a social and moral standpoint to actually try to educate those kids, but wouldn't that then drift into outcry that white kids are getting cheated because more money is being spent on black kids, or that taxpayer money is being squandered? On previous posts, it seems that a lot of people don't even think they should get to go to school at all...I think that instead of posting averages, they should post the whole distribution, or at least the standard deviation, don't you think? Similarly, all those rankings published by illustrious publications should have some sort of factor/adjustment for average income of the school population....

hmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis, said he was unemployed.

Incorrect, currently employed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 08:07AM by Berdhuis.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>SubmissiveWiirNot (remember that guy?)<<<
>
> She was not a guy, but one of the South Lakes PTSA
> ladies. She left, just before Birdhuis joined us.
> Such a coincidence!

No connection, Neen, I think you know better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 08:10AM by Berdhuis.

Country Hick - more money is already being spent on disadvantaged minority kids (at least in this area, Jonathon Kozol's proclamations notwithstanding), and the achievement gap is one of the most pernicious problems that exists today, being relatively impervious to any number of techniques, strategies and resource applications (although I surmise that the abandonment of phonics and repetitive math learning at the expense of creative self esteem centered efforts have also done harm). So the problem with minority kids is not going away, and neither, especially given our current politically correct sensibilities, is the money spent on them. The best solution would be to have a huge upsurge in two parent homes - that, I am afraid, won't happen soon either.

And I agree that by and large the middle class kids will do as well at South Lakes as at other schools. So what is it that parents are objecting to? First, the IB program - it is not a good fit for most of them, and it doesn't help that it is associated with the other low performing schools in the County. Argue all you want - it is not a good fit. And second, they are very concerned about behavior and conduct problems - although I applaud the school for their recent tough approach to them. The problem is that the behavior of the kids at issue outside of school (and I have been in those neighborhoods while running in Reston, and have my antennae up), while not that seen in tough inner city neighborhoods, leaves a lot to be desired, and frankly, there's often very little parental control being exercised. So it is not without reason that people are concerned about what happens when these students come to South Lakes. The problem of course is that when you run a tight ship to prevent it (and again, kudos to the principal for doing so), the school inevitably sheds light on a problem that people in the suburbs wish did not exist. That's the nature of the challenge. And third, I think the progressive or liberal nature of many residents of Reston, the wannabe Sweden of the DC suburbs, turns people off, and the decline of South Lakes to some demonstrates the manifest problems with social engineering and tax and spend solutions that are not primarily focused on individual accountability. The foregoing are only my opinions (blowhard that I am), but I think it paints a landscape of why people are objecting to the place.

Nothing is static - schools and communities can get better - but typically only if they compete, and evince a willingness to do so.

Nothing would be better for South Lakes parents - in my view - to explain how best to get resources and utilize the school to their kids' benefit. This is of course the challenge at all schools - and all parents are challenged to some degree to get their school to work for their kids - and there is a perception that this challenge is often greater at South Lakes. Note that this tack is in contradistinction to the repeated mantra of how great and diverse the place is - if it has to be repeated so often, people begin to have doubts as the depth of the statements. And in so doing, it strikes me as helpful to note that the status quo is not to be defended - the institution's capacity for change, if it does exist, should be emphasized.

Country Hick Wrote:

>
> Ok, so I think we agree that the scores are lower
> at SL because of non-instruction related factors,
> not because of the quality of instruction.

I don't agree with this. There is a correlation between low income and low scores. Low income kids tend to score better when in school with middle class kids. There is no proof of causation. If you read the research, it repeatedly comes up that no one knows if the difference is due to the influence of the middle class kids or other factors such as low teacher expectations.

It is a sad comment on our nation's schools that there is a decided preference to use students as resources rather than teachers.



> However, from what I read and hear, most of the
> potential SL families are angry because they think
> their kid will not get as good an education at SL.

Yes. Not because of the low income kids, but because of the IB program. And the "global citizen" garbage.

>doesn't it
> make sense for a school board member to try to
> make sure the average scores for the schools in
> his district reflect what the population is crying
> out for?

It makes sense for a school board member to try to make sure that the school in his backyard is not an embarassment to him. Of course, he has spent the last 12 years trying to make sure that it IS and embarrassment to him, so I don't think an imputation of good sense or any sense at all applies.

>Sure, it would be better from a social
> and moral standpoint to actually try to educate
> those kids, but wouldn't that then drift into
> outcry that white kids are getting cheated because
> more money is being spent on black kids, or that
> taxpayer money is being squandered? On previous
> posts, it seems that a lot of people don't even
> think they should get to go to school at all...I
> think that instead of posting averages, they
> should post the whole distribution, or at least
> the standard deviation, don't you think?
> Similarly, all those rankings published by
> illustrious publications should have some sort of
> factor/adjustment for average income of the school
> population....

I think FCPS should publish test scores by income for all Fairfax County schools to demonstrate that low income kids at Langely (all 0.94 percent of them) score higher than low income kids at South Lakes etc. Is there a difference in the county schools or is this a faith-based redistricting?

Thanks quantum...South Lakes IS trying to compete, but is handicapped by its current underenrollment...it's like all the other schools are playing with a full team with the latest equipment, and SL is playing down a man and using hand-me-downs...so I think the commissioner of the league needs to make sure the playing field is level...

A watershed moment for Marie - affluent people don't want to live in the Reston utopia. Welcome to the real world.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1117687~Parents_pressure_school_board_to_rethink_boundary_change.html

“That’s kind of typical for this sort of situation,” said Maria Allen, vice president of the South Lakes High School Parent Teacher Student Association. “The truth of the matter is that a lot of affluent people don’t want to send their kids to schools that have a large low-income population.”

Allen, who emphasized that she did not speak for the PTSA, called South Lakes an excellent school that nevertheless lagged in population because parents chose surrounding districts because of statistics and demographics. The school now serves about 1,400 students and has a capacity for 2,100."

itcouldalwaysbworse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> However, if you and your kids come and run down
> our school and our children...prepare for them to
> kick your kids AZZ. Not pretty but a fact.





Well isn't that special?

Church Lady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> itcouldalwaysbworse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > However, if you and your kids come and run down
> > our school and our children...prepare for them
> to
> > kick your kids AZZ. Not pretty but a fact.
>
>
>
>
>
> Well isn't that special?


That's one of the reasons people are turned off by the defeners of SL.

So the safety statistics of SLH is true reflection of reality.

AZZ Hole - No doubt there will be increased violence at SL when the new students arrive. I hope the county is looking to increase police presence at the school. It's going to be ugly.

Hey, Thomas More,

How about if we get the omnipotent SLHS PTSA to suggest to the FCPS facilities folks that your house be redistricted OUT of SL? What is your ideal school?

Brilliant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, Thomas More,
>
> How about if we get the omnipotent SLHS PTSA to
> suggest to the FCPS facilities folks that your
> house be redistricted OUT of SL? What is your
> ideal school?

I'm sure that little detail is already hidden in the small print of South Lakes Boundary Study Group's/SL PTSA's Option 5



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 09:50AM by Thomas More.

Reston is full of "affluent people," they are all retired and their kids are in their 30-50's. Most of the residents of Reston moved to Reston in the 60's had kids and have never left. I can attest to that as I attended South Lakes and graduated in 1981.

That was a long time ago. When I attended we did have some racial tension between low-income section 8 housing and rich kids (Senators, Prez's & VP's of companies and government officials kids). I imagine the school is now mostly section 8 housing as that is where the turn over is in Reston and where families with teenagers now live. Reston houses are prime real estate and in the affluent areas they are rarely sold unless some geezer is moving into the Reston old folks home or the Tower on Lake Anne.

The majority of kids that graduated in my SL class that I knew went to Ivy league schools such as Harvard, Yale, Georgetown and UVA, Most them completed Masters or PhD degrees. (Althought I must say one of my SL classmates that got a PhD from Havard got the PhD in Semantic Studies; What can you do with that?; Manage a radio station.)

South Lakes in my day was known as the "Rich snobs school" and the school board did whatever the parents of SL kids wanted because the "Restonites" had great pull with school board officials.

It would be nice to see a rich tradition continue at South Lakes, but honestly who cares, it's a High school and my alumni allegiance is to UVA!

STATEMENT OF THE FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD

December 20, 2007

Recently, the Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) received a letter of findings from the Virginia Department of Education (VDOE), finding the "school division to be in noncompliance regarding the confidentiality of educational records" of an individual student as charged by one parent. The VDOE imposed no sanction and required no corrective action on the part of FCPS or Stu Gibson, the Board member whose statements were the subject of the parent's complaint. The letter of findings applied to this individual complaint only.

School Board member Stu Gibson states: "I am sorry. I apologize if anything I said caused any harm. It was certainly not my intent." The School Board accepts Mr. Gibson's apology. The School Board has also decided not to appeal the letter of findings.

Each member of the Fairfax County School Board believes in the importance of protecting the confidentiality of student records in accordance with applicable laws. In order to ensure a more complete understanding of privacy statutes, their interpretations and compliance, School Board members will receive additional training regarding the legal requirements governing confidentiality of student records.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 09:46AM by Thomas More.

After attending all meetings, and reviewing all of the various options presented, it appears that the best solution will be to halt the Boundary Study until such time as public concerns about under the table deals with various communities and schools that were left out of the study, as well as the recent disclosures about Mr. Stuart Gibson's misconduct can be fully addressed. This decision will have a tremendous impact of the futures of many families, and must not be rushed though until "ALL possible solutions can be fully looked into. I understand that the South Lakes PTSA is grasping for "advantaged students" to prop up the reputation and performance of their school, but forcing parents and children into a school and community in which we have no connection is simply a poor option.

I am wondering why the school board has waiting so long to address the needs of an underperforming school, while at the same time they were allocating millions of our tax payer dollars to increase capacity at Langley High School. Nowhere in the county does such an economic disparity exist as between South Lakes and Langley.

Have you considered moving Aldrin and or Armstrong Elementary out of Herndon High, and into South Lakes, and then moving the Herndon/Reston students out of Langley and splitting them into Herndon and South Lakes based on proximity?

You should also consider the Madison School proximity as it relates to the South lakes proximity.

There are so many other possibilities that were never even put on the table for this study, that it was a flawed process from the very beginning.

I must ask the elected school board as well as the staff to halt the study before even more distrust in created in the public eye.

Floris Parent - I agree. The best solution in my opinion would be to move Langley students into South Lakes and leave everyone else alone.

There was a Freedom of Information Act request by StopRD to discover complaints of overcrowding at Westfield and Chantilly. There were no emails or written complaints of overcrowding.

Westfield Mom wrote:
>There is a correlation between low income and low scores. Low income kids tend to score better when in school with middle class kids....

I think FCPS should publish test scores by income for all Fairfax County schools to demonstrate that low income kids at Langely (all 0.94 percent of them) score higher than low income kids at South Lakes etc<

Isnt' this exactly why South Lakes wants to make sure their low-income kids are less of a percentage of the whole population???? You've made their argument for them.

The real question 90% of us should be asking is how do middle class children perform when placed in a school with low income children? After all, the middle class is the majority here. Sure there are always the 1 or 2% that can accel in any situation, but what is the impact on us - those in the middle? Frankly, I'm tired of having the needs of many diminished by the wants of a few.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STATEMENT OF THE FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD
>
> December 20, 2007
>
> Recently, the Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS)
> received a letter of findings from the Virginia
> Department of Education (VDOE), finding the
> "school division to be in noncompliance regarding
> the confidentiality of educational records" of an
> individual student as charged by one parent. The
> VDOE imposed no sanction and required no
> corrective action on the part of FCPS or Stu
> Gibson, the Board member whose statements were the
> subject of the parent's complaint. The letter of
> findings applied to this individual complaint
> only.
>

If this finding was for a teacher/counselor, what action would be taken? Is this situation any different?

> School Board member Stu Gibson states: "I am
> sorry. I apologize if anything I said caused any
> harm. It was certainly not my intent." The
> School Board accepts Mr. Gibson's apology. The
> School Board has also decided not to appeal the
> letter of findings.

This reads right out of any "forced" apology. It is not "I am sorry for my actions, what I DID WAS WRONG". It's "I'm sorry IF I 'Offended' you" - in other words, I'm sorry that YOU had a problem with my actions.


> Each member of the Fairfax County School Board
> believes in the importance of protecting the
> confidentiality of student records in accordance
> with applicable laws. In order to ensure a more
> complete understanding of privacy statutes, their
> interpretations and compliance, School Board
> members will receive additional training regarding
> the legal requirements governing confidentiality
> of student records.

I am pleased to see that there are two separate actions going on right now regarding this issue:
1. The petition to remove Mr. Gibson from office
2. MORE IMPORTANTLY, the campaign to ENSURE that OUR TAX DOLLARS are not spent on any DEFENSE of this ACTION. We are operating at a $100M deficit. Mr. Gibson created this situation of his own accord, and thus should not be use FCPS funds/resources in any required defense.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a Freedom of Information Act request by
> StopRD to discover complaints of overcrowding at
> Westfield and Chantilly. There were no emails or
> written complaints of overcrowding.

No one with whom I've spoken from Westfield has ever complained of overcrowding. All of the testimony from Westfield students that I have heard has negated the notion of overcrowding. My child at Westfield says there is no overcrowding, and has had no difficulty whatsoever in participation of sports.

Key elements of the School Board's claim that there is an overcrowding problem at Westfield is unsubstantiated. It is just an opinion that is not validated.

Floris is fighting back.

This was delivered by hand to the school board yesterday and contained nearly 600 signatures with names/addresses of those living SOLELY within the affected area. This is not an "Erika Castro On-line Petition" with 500 virtual signatures that could be from anyone. These are real people, living in the real area that aren't submitting blind comments via an unattributable website.



http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/westcoboundary/florisresidents.pdf

Pissed off parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Hippie Bill....probably only time I
> would agree with a Hippie ;)
>
> This entire redistricting is a pet project of Stu
> Gibson, the San Francisco Liberal who wants to
> push his "utopia" on me and my neighbors. South
> lakes has been a red herring for many years and
> the board has ignored it and now they want my
> children as guinea pigs to play "Can't we all just
> get along" high school musical. Where is Saint
> Rodney King when you need him..??
>
> As for renaming the school....what's that old
> saying....you can cover a pile of %*@# in honey
> but it's still a pile of......


I am new to this issue but I can see why some South Lakes students may take offense to many of the comments like this on these pages. Remember- we are talking about children here. Take your frustrations out on the school board but don't dare speak of innocent children like this.

What is the opinion of the South Lakes students? Do they want more kids at their school? Do they even care if they come? Or where they come from?

I think most South Lakes kids would choose the other (North) Reston kids who they grew up with while playing Reston Youth sports. I remember as a child playing pop warner and basketball in Reston with North Rston kids who eventually just ended up going to other schools. We lost touch and I always wondered what happened to them...

South Lakes parents wonder why no one likes them or their school. Just look what South Lakes parents have done here at this board. They attack posters they don't like with impunity. They lie repeatedly and validate the image of low class thugs.

Whe would any one want their children in school with bullies and liars?

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes parents wonder why no one likes them
> or their school. Just look what South Lakes
> parents have done here at this board. They attack
> posters they don't like with impunity. They lie
> repeatedly and validate the image of low class
> thugs.
>
> Whe would any one want their children in school
> with bullies and liars?

Why do you think the children of South Lakes High School are bullies and liars?

A little late commentary about "Option 5" originally presented Via the South Lakes HS PTSA website...

I know this is a pretty old discussion, but relative to the fact that we ALL KNOW that OPTION 5 as presented on the South Lakes PTSA website prior to the 12/3 meeting ended up being almost VERBATIM the "Alternative Option" posted on 12/11 by FCPS, I do find the following facts interesting (and I'm normally not a conspiracy theorist):

It was very convenient how the talking points relative to THEIR OPTION 5 were patently FALSE based on the way the boundaries were drawn at the time:
1. Option moves the FEWEST NUMBER OF STUDENTS - not unless you know something we all don't - The first incarnation of East Floris had 427 students and not 268 and the first incarnation of Navy had 273 students because it was the whole area, not just the once side of Fairfax County Parkway.

2. Reduces Enrollment - sure, a bit, but it would have also over populated South Lakes by 115 students (2215/2100)

Now, of course if you know about slightly different boundaries you could make these statements without making yourself look like a complete idiot.

How do I know this. I felt really bad for the 4 SL HS Students who were merely attempting to read their talking points at Meeting 2 and had to deal with me and my pesky numbers poking holes in all of "their" ideas. In fact, it didn't matter where you were representing, in that one room, everyone agreed at least those numbers couldn't lie.

Of course, as it turns out, it wasn't the numbers that were probably lying.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes parents wonder why no one likes them
> or their school. Just look what South Lakes
> parents have done here at this board. They attack
> posters they don't like with impunity. They lie
> repeatedly and validate the image of low class
> thugs.
>
> Whe would any one want their children in school
> with bullies and liars?


Do South Lakes parents really want more children at their school? And why?

Maybe they could care less if more kids came or where they came from... but they lash out at you all in response to the perceived (and real) disrespect of their children. Overall, this issue seems to have gotten out of hand and any chances of reasonable and respectable disscussion seems slim. Maybe everyone needs to take a step back.

The potential re-districted folk have a good arguement that there are more suitable candidates for redistricting. They should take that up with the school board... but stop the attacks on the children of South Lakes and their parents.

The parents and students of South Lakes should cease any counter-attacks. It is useless. Some sort of redistricting will happen eventually. But who really cares where the new kids come from?

To all who think that the School Board has even a scintilla of concern for educating the children of Fairfax County _

The main purpose of the School Board is to award contracts (please check the minutes of SB meetings) and to maintain political power (i.e.liberal establishment). Please remember this the next time you vote.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes parents wonder why no one likes them
> or their school. Just look what South Lakes
> parents have done here at this board. They attack
> posters they don't like with impunity. They lie
> repeatedly and validate the image of low class
> thugs.
>
> Whe would any one want their children in school
> with bullies and liars?


Hey Oakton Parent. You were quoted in the FIRST paragraph. You must be proud. Home school paper and all...


OAKTON OUTLOOK 12-18-07

"When put side by side, differences between Oakton and South Lakes balance out"

Matt Johnson and Erica Wohlleben

South Lakes High School is dangerous. At least, that is what a number of vocal parents speaking out against the West County Boundary Study want you to believe. Based on the claims of various parents, an outsider would presume the school is a constant battleground - a dead-end rampant with drugs and gang violence.
To rid ourselves of the status of "outsider," we took one day to visit this war zone. As students of Oakton, a school with rough pockets of its own, we shadowed students at South Lakes to observe and examine. How rough is it really? How does AP compare to IB? Overall, how do Oakton and South Lakes stack up side-by-side? Here is what we found.

...................

Crime and Violence

The first rumor about South Lakes was dispelled immediately upon entering the building. There were, in fact, no metal detectors at the door. In reality, the only abnormality was all the construction equipment surrounding the school. No drug deals, no drive-bys, no violence - just students filing off busses and into the school.

South Lakes has had trouble shedding the negative reputation it acquired in the '80s. "Urban legends" have formed about the school and despite behavioral changes, the off-putting reputation persists.

>>>>>>>>.........

ETC. Led Zeppelin's back. The Song Remains the Same.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brilliant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey, Thomas More,
> >
> > How about if we get the omnipotent SLHS PTSA to
> > suggest to the FCPS facilities folks that your
> > house be redistricted OUT of SL? What is your
> > ideal school?
>
> I'm sure that little detail is already hidden in
> the small print of South Lakes Boundary Study
> Group's/SL PTSA's Option 5


Oh Thomas More, this is delightful news. The Floris Island has several nice houses for sale. You along with your South Lakes PTSA prescribed "no-redistricting-monkey-on-your-back" would be welcomed here by all of the Floris Islanders.

South Lakes Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But who really cares where the new kids come from?

Remember the kids you played ball with and subsequently lost touch with.

If Option 4, or a variation of it, had been adopted, those kids' younger siblings would be going to South Lakes with your younger siblings instead of going to other schools.

Reston's kids at Reston's high school.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 12:09PM by Thomas More.

Floris Islander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh Thomas More, this is delightful news. The
> Floris Island has several nice houses for sale.
> You along with your South Lakes PTSA prescribed
> "no-redistricting-monkey-on-your-back" would be
> welcomed here by all of the Floris Islanders.

No doubt this is very clever but is there a simultaneous translation available for holiday gift giving.

"No doubt this is very clever but is there a simultaneous translation available for holiday gift giving."

No doubt, one would wonder. It is, the giving season.

samgee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To all who think that the School Board has even a
> scintilla of concern for educating the children of
> Fairfax County _
>
> The main purpose of the School Board is to award
> contracts (please check the minutes of SB
> meetings) and to maintain political power
> (i.e.liberal establishment). Please remember this
> the next time you vote.

It would be great if the above-mentioned dynamic duo do more
than lip service and ask for pupil placement to South Lakes.
Then you could provide real input. How about it?

This whole thing is a clear case of creating a scenario to support poor and ill advised prior decisions. And it is not too late to change, but the SB is too proud to admit that. Perhaps, the perception (which has since turned out to be incorrect) was thta Westfields and Chantilly would be significantly overpopulated. Lets look at some facts,

1. SL sits between Langley and Oakton.
2. SL is under utilized; Oakton is appropriately utilized; Lengley is over untilized
3. The SB wants to shift students from Oakton to SL leaving Oakton underutilized while putting an addition onto Langley.

Is this not a violation of fiduciary responsibility? Everyone, regardless of how you feel about redistricting, should at least send a consistent message to the SB that they cannot WASTE money - lets spend it on the students!!!! Oh, and by the way, shifting students from Langley to SL will significantly reduce operating costs!

Below is a cut and paste from the most current CIP study available on the FCPS website.


"FY 2009-13 Capital Improvement Program
Projects with Approved Bonds (Funded)
Rationale
New Construction – Langley High School
enrollment currently exceeds capacity by 233
students and is projected to exceed capacity by 200
students in 2012-13. Currently, eight temporary
classroom trailers are used to accommodate excess
enrollment. Although some capacity is available at
adjacent high schools, it is anticipated this capacity
will be utilized to support attendance area
adjustments related to the west county boundary
study. Langley is the smallest high school building in
FCPS. Construction of a 10-room permanent
addition, funded in the 2003 Bond Referendum,
will provide a maximum of 250 additional student
spaces to accommodate special programs and relieve
overcrowding. Site constraints prohibit the use of a
modular addition."

FFX DAD - you are soooo right. Dare we say that shifting 230-240 students from Langley to SL, and the Madison Island would reduce costs, save us a $6 million school addition, address the socioeconomic issues facing SL, and only effect the 270 students or so that are moved with no domino effects. Too easy - no way. Are the SB afraid of the politics - of course.

Maybe this is something that everyone can get behind.

FFX Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole thing is a clear case of creating a
> scenario to support poor and ill advised prior
> decisions. And it is not too late to change, but
> the SB is too proud to admit that. Perhaps, the
> perception (which has since turned out to be
> incorrect) was thta Westfields and Chantilly would
> be significantly overpopulated. Lets look at some
> facts,
>
> 1. SL sits between Langley and Oakton.
> 2. SL is under utilized; Oakton is appropriately
> utilized; Lengley is over untilized
> 3. The SB wants to shift students from Oakton to
> SL leaving Oakton underutilized while putting an
> addition onto Langley.
>
> Is this not a violation of fiduciary
> responsibility? Everyone, regardless of how you
> feel about redistricting, should at least send a
> consistent message to the SB that they cannot
> WASTE money - lets spend it on the students!!!!
> Oh, and by the way, shifting students from Langley
> to SL will significantly reduce operating costs!
>
> Below is a cut and paste from the most current CIP
> study available on the FCPS website.
>
>
> "FY 2009-13 Capital Improvement Program
> Projects with Approved Bonds (Funded)
> Rationale
> New Construction – Langley High School
> enrollment currently exceeds capacity by 233
> students and is projected to exceed capacity by
> 200
> students in 2012-13. Currently, eight temporary
> classroom trailers are used to accommodate excess
> enrollment. Although some capacity is available
> at
> adjacent high schools, it is anticipated this
> capacity
> will be utilized to support attendance area
> adjustments related to the west county boundary
> study. Langley is the smallest high school
> building in
> FCPS. Construction of a 10-room permanent
> addition, funded in the 2003 Bond Referendum,
> will provide a maximum of 250 additional student
> spaces to accommodate special programs and
> relieve
> overcrowding. Site constraints prohibit the use of
> a
> modular addition."

Diversity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FFX DAD - you are soooo right. Dare we say that
> shifting 230-240 students from Langley to SL, and
> the Madison Island would reduce costs, save us a
> $6 million school addition, address the
> socioeconomic issues facing SL, and only effect
> the 270 students or so that are moved with no
> domino effects. Too easy - no way. Are the SB
> afraid of the politics - of course.
>
> Maybe this is something that everyone can get
> behind.
>
--------
OK - Count me in.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL, A GOOD FIGHT!

FFX Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole thing is a clear case of creating a
> scenario to support poor and ill advised prior
> decisions. And it is not too late to change, but
> the SB is too proud to admit that. Perhaps, the
> perception (which has since turned out to be
> incorrect) was thta Westfields and Chantilly would
> be significantly overpopulated. Lets look at some
> facts,
>
> 1. SL sits between Langley and Oakton.
> 2. SL is under utilized; Oakton is appropriately
> utilized; Lengley is over untilized
> 3. The SB wants to shift students from Oakton to
> SL leaving Oakton underutilized while putting an
> addition onto Langley.
>
> Is this not a violation of fiduciary
> responsibility? Everyone, regardless of how you
> feel about redistricting, should at least send a
> consistent message to the SB that they cannot
> WASTE money - lets spend it on the students!!!!
> Oh, and by the way, shifting students from Langley
> to SL will significantly reduce operating costs!
>
> Below is a cut and paste from the most current CIP
> study available on the FCPS website.
>
>
> "FY 2009-13 Capital Improvement Program
> Projects with Approved Bonds (Funded)
> Rationale
> New Construction – Langley High School
> enrollment currently exceeds capacity by 233
> students and is projected to exceed capacity by
> 200
> students in 2012-13. Currently, eight temporary
> classroom trailers are used to accommodate excess
> enrollment. Although some capacity is available
> at
> adjacent high schools, it is anticipated this
> capacity
> will be utilized to support attendance area
> adjustments related to the west county boundary
> study. Langley is the smallest high school
> building in
> FCPS. Construction of a 10-room permanent
> addition, funded in the 2003 Bond Referendum,
> will provide a maximum of 250 additional student
> spaces to accommodate special programs and
> relieve
> overcrowding. Site constraints prohibit the use of
> a
> modular addition."

Great point, but still only half the message. For the full message, you need to look at the previous 2 CIP Books (2006 and 2007) and the language THEY had about the LANGLEY EXPANSION:

“Currently, nine temporary classroom trailers are used to accommodate excess enrollment (at Langley). Adjacent high schools are operating at or above capacity, thus boundary adjustments to relieve this overcrowding are not possible.”
FCPS CIP Book 2008 – 2012, page 19

Yep, they had to to use a little circular logic to justify it now:
1. There's no room, so we need an addition (2006/2007)
2. School has extra room so there is a boundary study
3. Yep, there WAS room, but the boundary study filled it from other places, so we still need the addition.

I call BS!
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cipbook2008-2012.pdf#xml=http://search.fcps.edu/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/webinator/search/xml.txt?query=CIP+Book&pr=public&prox=sentence&rorder=750&rprox=750&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=500&rlead=500&sufs=1&order=r&cq=&id=474d0bc60

This board presents some great news for South Lakes! 20 or so vicious people (and no more) are not going to the school because they will be placing themselves and their brainwashed kids out of it. You have now identified yourselves over these 120 pages. All the other kids will go there and probably fall in love with it. I'm not affected directly by this redistricting, but I hope I don't run into any of you in the halls MY kid will be in at his non SL school because I'd be afraid for his soul.

And about Langley, which I know pretty well, just look at a street map and see for yourselves exactly how many households would ever be moved in any inclusion of Langley -- negligible.

Boy that Langley group and the School Board are very smart, move Oakton to South Lakes so they can get their addition.

Nomansanisland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And about Langley, which I know pretty well, just
> look at a street map and see for yourselves
> exactly how many households would ever be moved in
> any inclusion of Langley -- negligible.

Then put this as option 6 (an option that includes Langley). If this option's disadvantages dictate it is not a viable option, so be it. That will not cause this much backlash.

Also take a look at 2 miles south of SLH. People in Floris are angry for a reason.

>The real question 90% of us should be asking is how do middle class children perform when placed in a school with low income children?<

The question has been asked, and answered many ways and many times: Dozens of studies (several longitudinal) show that they do fine and as well as they would at any school. Period. Read 'em.

Normansanisland - your statements are reflective of the extreme, emotionally indulged statements that one can see all too often here (and both sides have their violators). They are not probative of anything.

The issues don't relate to whether someone may fall in love with the school, or what will happen to someone's soul (now that isn't very measurable, is it?). And you likely have no way of verifying just how many students will or won't pupil place, so I am rather certain that your statement about 20 students is merely anecdotal. People seem to be angry, and when in that state, may do irrational things, like pupil place or go private at a rate greater than lemmings racing in the Arctic.

I don't think the way forward is to demonize anyone or any group. All are acting in one form or another out of self interest. That can easily be understood. What matters is whether one can advance solid empirical data or evidence in support of a position, and to be credible and open in discussions (a problem the School Board does seem to be encountering). Again, posts about souls or happiness don't make much sense - they infer a sense of moral superiority - which I would hazard very few have province to claim - and don't move a discussion forward.

Kids will get great education on how to deal with gang members. They will learn gang language within a month. They will learn how to keep their month shut otherwise they will be beaten to death.
If you want your kids to be a tough guy, send them over to SLHS. They will be shaped into Rocky in a month.
This is what you expect after the first SLHS day:
1. Broken nose.
2. Losing a couple of teeth.
3. Got kicked on the behind 10 times.
4. Cried 15 times.
5. Being forced to drink toilet water during lunch hours.
......

SLHS welcome you, Fox Mill kids. See you in a year. hehehehehe.

People in Floris are NOT 2 miles away from SLH. The closest Floris address is more than double that distance. Please use correct information.

LivingW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nomansanisland Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And about Langley, which I know pretty well,
> just
> > look at a street map and see for yourselves
> > exactly how many households would ever be moved
> in
> > any inclusion of Langley -- negligible.
>
> Then put this as option 6 (an option that includes
> Langley). If this option's disadvantages dictate
> it is not a viable option, so be it. That will not
> cause this much backlash.
>
> Also take a look at 2 miles south of SLH. People
> in Floris are angry for a reason.

SLHSIsGreatForKids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kids will get great education on how to deal with
> gang members. They will learn gang language within
> a month. They will learn how to keep their month
> shut otherwise they will be beaten to death.
> If you want your kids to be a tough guy, send them
> over to SLHS. They will be shaped into Rocky in a
> month.
> This is what you expect after the first SLHS day:
> 1. Broken nose.
> 2. Losing a couple of teeth.
> 3. Got kicked on the behind 10 times.
> 4. Cried 15 times.
> 5. Being forced to drink toilet water during lunch
> hours.
> ......
>
> SLHS welcome you, Fox Mill kids. See you in a
> year. hehehehehe.

Give me a break. South Lakes is nothing like that, nice try.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People in Floris are NOT 2 miles away from SLH.
> The closest Floris address is more than double
> that distance. Please use correct information.
>
> LivingW Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nomansanisland Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And about Langley, which I know pretty well,
> > just
> > > look at a street map and see for yourselves
> > > exactly how many households would ever be
> moved
> > in
> > > any inclusion of Langley -- negligible.
> >
> > Then put this as option 6 (an option that
> includes
> > Langley). If this option's disadvantages
> dictate
> > it is not a viable option, so be it. That will
> not
> > cause this much backlash.
> >
> > Also take a look at 2 miles south of SLH.
> People
> > in Floris are angry for a reason.

To Clarify, I was referring to part of Madison is 2 miles south of SLH in my original post. This area is excluded from the study and is one of the major reasons Floris people are feeling unfair.

It seems like there is some general agreement, finally.

Folks who are not in overcrowded schools do not want to move - they are happy. It really has little to do with South Lakes, other than they are comfortable with their current program offerings. And SL needs more programs (which are more likely to come with more students).

There are two overpopulated schools adjacent to SL - Langley and Madison.

How does everyone get together and promote this to the SB?

FFX Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like there is some general agreement,
> finally.
>
> Folks who are not in overcrowded schools do not
> want to move - they are happy. It really has
> little to do with South Lakes, other than they are
> comfortable with their current program offerings.
> And SL needs more programs (which are more likely
> to come with more students).
>
> There are two overpopulated schools adjacent to SL
> - Langley and Madison.
>
> How does everyone get together and promote this to
> the SB?

Unfortunately you will be speaking to the deaf as long as his craveness is the Hunter Mill member but those days may be numbered. Stay tuned.

Thomas More Wrote:
>
> Unfortunately you will be speaking to the deaf as
> long as his craveness is the Hunter Mill member
> but those days may be numbered. Stay tuned.


TM - That is true, but better to speak up and not be heard than never speak up at all! If nothing else, we should be role models for the students ... to share our opinions, support our neighbors, and take action for what is right!

I certainly look forward to a change in SB leadership, should that occur.

Thanks!

Interesting anecdote from the last meeting -



Last night, I attended the third “Community Town Meeting” on Fairfax County’s West County H.S. Boundary Study held at Oakton, H.S. and was shocked by the lengths Fairfax County Public Schools is apparently willing to go to deceive the public on its redistricting plans. The school system seems to be employing a deliberate, calculated strategy to force a pre-ordained - but highly unpopular - redistricting decision down everybody’s throat, hoping that voters will forget the insult next time the School Board is up for reelection.

As happened at the previous “town hall” meeting at Westfields H.S., the public was split into small groups led by an FCPS “facilitator.” Divide and conquer is still an effective strategy, especially when you can get neighborhoods fighting among themselves instead of focusing on the big picture: Redistricting is not necessary, the current option is unfair, and nobody wants it.

Our facilitator in Room 215 was Barbara Fisher, who must have done her graduate work with the KGB. Ms. Fisher demanded that Hunter Mill resident Bruce Bennett (who had previously been escorted out of the Westfields meeting by the police for bringing his camcorder) not videotape the proceedings this time, either.

Bennett respectfully refused, citing his rights under Section 2.2-3707 (h) of the Virginia Code: “Any person may photograph, film, record or otherwise reproduce any portion of a meeting required to be open....” And if a community town hall meeting isn’t an “open” meeting, what is?

Ms. Fisher then called security and seven police officers soon arrived , accompanied by FCPS facilities chief Dean Tistadt. (See The Examiner’s editorial: www.examiner.com/a-1104757~Junk_the_Fairfax_school_redistricting_plan.html). Even though Tistadt had three weeks to bone up on the law, he told the officers that no videotaping would be allowed if even one participant objected. Then he argued that the no-videotaping policy was intended to protect any underage students in the room.

So once again, Mr. Bennett was escorted out of a public meeting for trying to exercise his right, confirmed by the state’s Freedom of Information office, to record it.

But Comrade Fisher wasn’t done. When she noticed another camcorder in the room, she demanded that Oak Hill resident Jay Frost turn his off, too, threatening to call the cops if he did not. Frost icily retorted that “I’m not one of your students” before leaving the room voluntarily.

Back in Room 215, we watched a typical FCPS offering – an extremely boring televised video that managed to evade every single objection to the redistricting plan raised at the previous town meeting. Fisher then put up large sheets of paper – the kind you use when you’re teaching kindergarteners their ABCs – to record our comments, deftly channeling most of the input into just two categories: Did we agree – or disagree – with the Dec. 19 “Alternative Option”? Which was, in fact, the only option on the table at this point.

Several of the participants complained that there was no “No Redistricting Option”. Others noted that comments made to this effect at the Westfields meeting never made it to the FCPS website.

I was not surprised. When my turn came to speak, I said that I thought the school system was deliberately misleading the public by offering only one option nobody wanted, and that these public meetings were nothing but a charade. Since my eyesight isn’t so good anymore, I didn’t notice the fact that Comrade Fisher neglected to write the word “charade” down; a student sitting in front of me helpfully pointed that out. I had to raise my hand and insist – twice – that this be done.

Despite Fisher’s totally inappropriate and insinuating remarks that nobody should feel “threatened” to voice their agreement with the redistricting plan (she was, in fact, the only one who ever threatened anybody all evening), the overwhelmingly majority in Room 215 (16 out of 20 – not counting Mr. Bennett or Mr. Frost) opposed any redistricting at all. We found this out only at the end of the meeting, and only after one woman demanded Fisher take a tally of those opposed to any redistricting at all. Fisher had initially refused to do this, claiming that it was “too chaotic” in the room for a show of hands. But this was a flat-out lie, as the group was much closer to docile than anything else.

Offering just one option and then using strong-arm tactics to curb dissent and stifle debate are the hallmarks of a dictatorship. “This is just like China,” one Asian man in attendance said, and his comment gave me the chills. He was right.

Today, I called Supt. Jack Dale’s office to ask why all the comments weren’t posted and why his stable of lawyers can’t read the Virginia Code. I’m still waiting....

Mike-

While not at the meeting, I can understand your feelings of disgust with FCPS' politburo. This is the way they do business in all aspects of their policies. They ram policy down our throats with little or no public/parental input.

I have said repeatedly on this board and will say it until I am blue in the face.


THE ONLY HOPE IS FOR EVERONE TO AGREE THAT FCPS IS NOT QUALIFIED TO REDRAW ANY BOUNDARIES. They screwed up SOCO and WESTFIELD-why should we let them screw up again?

I urge ALL PARENTS-regardless of your school district to STOP THE PROCESS. Bring in a professional who is not tainted and doesn't owe anyone any favors. Just read Belter's editorial from 2 years ago blasting the way Stork took care of the Mason Neck folks at the expense of many other neighborhoods with the SOCO boundary.

Stop the fighting among the schools and join forces against FCPS. SL will not benefit by dragging parents and kids into their school who don't want to be there. A more ethical, fair system needs to be put into place including ALL schools-not just those politically doable.

I think a lot depends on how the researcher defines "fine." Perhaps Truthbetold could post links to the some of the studies he/she has read on this topic, so parents understand exactly what the studies do and do not say.

My personal take is that as long as a school is safe, the important question is whether there is a critical mass of other students who need and participate in similar curricular and extra-curricular programs.


Truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >The real question 90% of us should be asking is
> how do middle class children perform when placed
> in a school with low income children?<
>
> The question has been asked, and answered many
> ways and many times: Dozens of studies (several
> longitudinal) show that they do fine and as well
> as they would at any school. Period. Read 'em.

Just to clarify - the comments were not mine, but were from an article I found.

However, I think your option is one possible solution I could agree with.

itcouldalwaysbworse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, if you and your kids come and run down
> our school and our children...prepare for them to
> kick your kids AZZ. Not pretty but a fact. You
> either like us or you don't. We don't care but be
> respectful to us we are intitled to that same as
> you and your children are.


Wow, you are the exact type of quality person I have been speaking of.

> Bring in a professional who is not tainted

While the SL PTSA is not profoessional nor tainted, they have been brought in to decide where to draw the boundary lines.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>What ever gave you the impression that any PTA
> selects the curriculum for their school?<<<
>
> South Lakes PTSA said it. You'll have to ask them
> why they are in charge at SL.

They're not, and they don't have any delusions about their own power. Your perception is wrong.

FFX Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This whole thing is a clear case of creating a
> scenario to support poor and ill advised prior
> decisions. And it is not too late to change, but
> the SB is too proud to admit that. Perhaps, the
> perception (which has since turned out to be
> incorrect) was thta Westfields and Chantilly would
> be significantly overpopulated. Lets look at some
> facts,
>
> 1. SL sits between Langley and Oakton.
> 2. SL is under utilized; Oakton is appropriately
> utilized; Lengley is over untilized
> 3. The SB wants to shift students from Oakton to
> SL leaving Oakton underutilized while putting an
> addition onto Langley.
>
> Is this not a violation of fiduciary
> responsibility? Everyone, regardless of how you
> feel about redistricting, should at least send a
> consistent message to the SB that they cannot
> WASTE money - lets spend it on the students!!!!
> Oh, and by the way, shifting students from Langley
> to SL will significantly reduce operating costs!
>
> Below is a cut and paste from the most current CIP
> study available on the FCPS website.
>
>
> "FY 2009-13 Capital Improvement Program
> Projects with Approved Bonds (Funded)
> Rationale
> New Construction – Langley High School
> enrollment currently exceeds capacity by 233
> students and is projected to exceed capacity by
> 200
> students in 2012-13. Currently, eight temporary
> classroom trailers are used to accommodate excess
> enrollment. Although some capacity is available
> at
> adjacent high schools, it is anticipated this
> capacity
> will be utilized to support attendance area
> adjustments related to the west county boundary
> study. Langley is the smallest high school
> building in
> FCPS. Construction of a 10-room permanent
> addition, funded in the 2003 Bond Referendum,
> will provide a maximum of 250 additional student
> spaces to accommodate special programs and
> relieve
> overcrowding. Site constraints prohibit the use of
> a
> modular addition."



That makes me sick. Nice to see our tax dollars get flushed down the toilet. I speculate the reason Langley is not included in the study is the greater ability to afford private school as these families are more likely to be wealthy rather than middle class.

Again, if half of the Section 8 housing was relocated out of Reston, this problem would not be so severe as people would be more inclined to live in Reston and utilize Reston's schools.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They're not, and they don't have any delusions about their own power.

Then why are so many of the SL PTSA officers unwilling to use the redistricting as an opportunity to revisit IB v. AP issue and unmercifully attack those of us both at SL and elsewhere who are open to looking hard at the question.

IB HL classes and IB diploma track serves an exceptionally small percentage of the SL student pop. Many of the classes have enrollments so small that if they were not require by the IB curriculum, they would have been dropped.

Thus, teaching resources are taken away from non-IB HL/diploma students at South Lakes, most of whom are also going to college.

This phenomenon is an additional reason for the constricted course offerings at SL (in addition to small overall enrollment) that the IB adherents don't want to acknowledge or discuss.

IB's requirement of an on-campus coordinator also reduces educational resources for the non-IB HL/diploma population. Anyone who mentions this is treated as evil incarnate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 05:28PM by Thomas More.

>>>>so I think we agree that the scores are lower at SL because of non-instruction related factors, not because of the quality of instruction.<<<<

No, I don't think we would agree with that. The scores are lower because these kids aren't being educated in Reston schools from kindergarten on. Other schools, with even lower demographics, do better than the schools in Reston. The could be improved, but no one has made that happen.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They're not, and they don't have any delusions
> about their own power.
>
> Then why are so many of the SL PTSA officers
> unwilling to use the redistricting as an
> opportunity to revisit IB v. AP issue and
> unmercifully attack those of us both at SL and
> elsewhere who are open to looking hard at the
> question.
>
> IB HL classes and IB diploma track serves an
> exceptionally small percentage of the SL student
> pop. Many of the classes have enrollments so small
> that if they were not require by the IB
> curriculum, they would have been dropped.
>
> Thus, teaching resources are taken away from
> non-IB HL/diploma students at South Lakes, most of
> whom are also going to college.
>
> This phenomenon is an additional reason for the
> constricted course offerings at SL that the IB
> adherents don't want to acknowledge or discuss.
>
> IB's requirement of an on-campus coordinator also
> reduces educational resources for the non-IB
> HL/diploma population. Anyone who mentions this
> is treated as evil incarnate.


Yes, and this is a huge issue for parents who are threatened with redistricting. They choose a high school with an AP program, and now they aren't going to be allowed to have an AP program.

IB is a niche program, for a handful of students. It should never be the main program at any high school but a magnet for students who really want it. The South Lakes PTSA has made it MORE than clear that they love their IB program and parents who are forced into South Lakes will have NO say about their hopes for an AP program. None. It's IB or the highway.

>>>>if half of the Section 8 housing was relocated out of Reston, this problem would not be so severe as people would be more inclined to live in Reston and utilize Reston's schools.<<<

The rest of the county doesn't want it, and Reston does.

OR, they could choose to educate those students as they have been able to do at many other elementary schools in this county and across the country.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 11:04PM by Neen.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one with whom I've spoken from Westfield has
> ever complained of overcrowding. All of the
> testimony from Westfield students that I have
> heard has negated the notion of overcrowding. My
> child at Westfield says there is no overcrowding,
> and has had no difficulty whatsoever in
> participation of sports.
>
> Key elements of the School Board's claim that
> there is an overcrowding problem at Westfield is
> unsubstantiated. It is just an opinion that is not
> validated.


Have you spoken to Westfield students and parents who are not in areas that have under consideration for redistricting? I spoke to a Westfield mother today who said she finds it way too crowded there. She said there were many Westfield families who will be glad to have a smaller population at the school.