I knew from the start that my neighborhood would not be redistricted -- made no sense from many standpoints. Didn't worry about it because I was always going to pupil-place my 8th-grader right behind her brother. I lived in Reston for 15 years and moved because I couldn't afford a SFH there, but I could just one mile outside its boundary. I do love my current neighborhood and neighbors (most of whom have told me they'd be fine with South Lakes, btw.) Now I have two places to call "hometown."

I got involved with my local public schools when my oldest was only 2 years old. I was committed to understanding what made schools tick, to supporting them if I possibly could, and to improving them before my kids got there, if improvement was needed. I had heard horrible things about South Lakes from neighbors clamoring to go to Herndon (via Aldrin and Armstrong) or boasting they'd send their progeny to Nysmith. A lot of these parents only had babies or were pregnant. Rumors were rife. My four friends and I got educated and involved and enlightened instead of joining the forces of the fearful and ignorant.

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flurries Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > This is indeed where the Floris community has
> > gravitated. Many who may have eventually
> settled
> > into a South Lakes move, are now completely
> > repulsed by the appearance that the South Lakes
> > community has been manipulated and manipulative.
>
> > This, combined by with the complete dismantling
> of
> > the Floris community in the latest proposal has
> > many in our community very angry and upset. I
> > think that you will find many completely turned
> > off and will do whatever is necessary to not
> step
> > foot into South Lakes. I know this is not what
> > South Lakes wants. And they will continue to
> > beleive that in the end we will all be one big
> > happy family. But I think the approach that
> the
> > school board has taken along with the South
> Lakes
> > PTSA and/or community side-saddle, is probably
> the
> > worst PR for the school yet.
>
> Yes, I totally agree. By now, you have noticed
> that just about every separate room at the
> Westfield meeting proposed the same option 5, and
> that this just happens to be the final option we
> are all supposed to comment on at Oakton. The
> same option generated by the SLHS PTSA. All this
> will do is piss people off and make them
> determined to see this not succeed, as opposed to
> getting at any root causes of the real problems
> and working at real solutions to solve them.

What a shame. The school board, staff, and SL PTSA has totally botched this and has support from no one other than the SL PSTA board. It's terrible for South Lakes. They aren't going to get anything close to what they wanted.

Thomas: I shall call you that after all, because you advocate what your humanist namesake did, which is utopia. I can't fault you for that. Really.

However, please be careful about the term "derision," because there you have descended yourself. I don't appreciate it either.

>>>moved because I couldn't afford a SFH there<<<<

What a stupid lie. There was NO SFH house in South Lakes district that you could buy in 2001 for $365,000?

PUHLEEZE............

No one cares if you want to pupil place into South Lakes, but it's silly to lie about the reason for moving out of Reston. People here live in Fairfax county! duh. We know the value of homes in different school districts. South Lakes isn't exactly the high price district.

>>>>I do love my current neighborhood and neighbors (most of whom have told me they'd be fine with South Lakes, btw.)<<<

Another total lie. Your neighbors have fought vigorously to avoid being moved to South Lakes. I'm quite sure that the Crossfield parents here will be glad to tell you themselves that your view is NOT the view of your neighbors. Or you can ask them at the meeting on Wednesday. Please, ask them. We will too.

In fact, I bet your neighbors will more than happy to help you find a home in Reston so you can move back to where you'll be more comfortable.I hear that there will be many bargains to had there in the Fox Mill area if they are sent to South Lakes. You'll love it there with your little cabal of bullies.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>moved because I couldn't afford a SFH
> there<<<<
>
> What a stupid lie. There was NO SFH house in
> South Lakes district that you could buy in 2001
> for $365,000?
>
> PUHLEEZE............
>
> No one cares if you want to pupil place into South
> Lakes, but it's silly to lie about the reason for
> moving out of Reston. People here live in Fairfax
> county! duh. We know the value of homes in
> different school districts. South Lakes isn't
> exactly the high price district.

My Reston townhouse was worth more than $365K in 2001. You don't know nuttin'.

>> Pulling Armstrong out of Herndon and into SLHS
>> doesn't make sense.

>Why?

Location, Location, Location.

>> Would the Floris parents who oppose the Alternate
>> Scenario have been happy to be moved to Herndon as
>>proposed in Option 4?

>Why not its closer to them than SL and just as good as SL.

Are you a Floris parent who opposes the Alternate Scenario and supports Option 4?

Neen: Your posts in the last 20 pages or so have actually turned somewhat reasonable, so I'm willing to respond to you.

In fact, we could not find a comparable house in Reston when we moved. I was profoundly saddened. The very few houses available that we could afford were smaller, or were on a culdesac of only a few houses, leading directly to a main road (like some of the houses on West Ox/Lawyers Rd. are now). We also were outbid on three houses, after we offered more than the asking price. We looked for eight months. And we were not prepared to be house rich and cash poor as so many others were. Our house now cost $50K more in Reston - same layout, same acreage, same square footage, same or near same year built.

The issue of property values has been discussed to death here, and nobody has yet provided actual sales numbers to support their argument that Reston houses are worth less than comparable houses outside of Reston.

oh oh. Spoke too soon. Posts crossed in the ether. Ta ta N**n.

>>>>I knew from the start that my neighborhood would not be redistricted<<<

Wow. You are SO smart. The rest of Crossfield was so silly to ever be concerned. I hope you told your neighbors how smart you were and how dumb they were. I'm sure that will endear you to them, even more than they already are.

>>>Neen: Your posts in the last 20 pages or so have actually turned somewhat reasonable, so I'm willing to respond to you.<<<

I just cannot tell you how moved I am by your kindness. I could just cry.

I sure hope you didn't get hurt when you took that big leap off your pedestal.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Pulling Armstrong out of Herndon and into SLHS
>
> >> doesn't make sense.
>
> >Why?
>
> Location, Location, Location.

Meaning what? Can you write something other than cliches or did you go to UVA too.

> >> Would the Floris parents who oppose the
> Alternate
> >> Scenario have been happy to be moved to Herndon
> as
> >>proposed in Option 4?
>
> >Why not its closer to them than SL and just as
> good as SL.
>
> Are you a Floris parent who opposes the Alternate
> Scenario and supports Option 4?

what are you talking about?

>>>My Reston townhouse was worth more than $365K in 2001.<<<

Good for you. Apparently your home wasn't quite good enough for Clarifier. You'll have to take that up with her.

Neen and Thomas sittin' in a tree,
D-i-s-s-i-n-g
First comes the Underground,
Then comes marriage?
Then comes (fill in here).

Please, both of you, STFU.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if Reston incorporates as a
> "town/city/whatever", do we not have the same
> situation we have with Vienna or or Fairfax where
> all of the students from these jurisdictions have
> to attend the designated schools
> (Madison/Fairfax).
>
-----
Not quite. Taxpayers from the entire County are paying for the $60+ million renovation at South Lakes - Reston is not paying for it on its own. In contrast, "Since 1962, the City of Fairfax School Board has contracted with Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) for the delivery of educational services. The City School Board owns and is responsible for its school buildings. ... The City of Fairfax School Division is comprised of four buildings housing some 4,550 students in grades K-12. About 2,750 of these students are residents of the City of Fairfax, with the remainder residing in Fairfax County." Fairfax County actually pays Fairfax City to use some of the space in those four schools to educate County students.

The Scream, Apologies to Munch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen and Thomas sittin' in a tree,
> D-i-s-s-i-n-g
> First comes the Underground,
> Then comes marriage?
> Then comes (fill in here).
>
> Please, both of you, STFU.

Not a chance, you encephalic cretin.

>>>encephalic cretin<<<

Great phrase. I shall remember that.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The alternatives scenario does not affect the
> outcome of Coppermine/McNair changes. So South
> Lakes parents ARE in favor of leaving McNair alone
> for now. The question of where McNair students,
> and students now west of Centerville Road
> (currently in Floris) and new students in new
> developments go, can be left up to the future.
>
> None of those neighborhoods abuts South Lakes and
> therefore, South Lakes proximity issues would not
> be affected by any of those changes, and no one
> who is affected now would be affected by future
> changes.
>
> South Lakes has an immediate opening for 700+
> students. The first wave will only fill a quarter
> of that capacity. It will take four years to get
> to the numbers needed for full course offerings.
> So the need is NOW and the opportunity is NOW and
> the kids who move there in the next year will
> benefit right away from changes in curricula that
> can be made with the first wave of students.
>
> Remember: There are only a few more than 1,100
> general ed kids at SL now. That's 275 per grade.
> In four years, there should be 450 per grade. That
> is a significant number for being able to offer
> the same kinds of courses other schools provide.


Clarifier -
Sorry, you are simply wrong. The CIP numbers that Floris will be about 180 over by 2012, so significant portions of Floris will be moved. To McNair (in dominoes)?, to Coppermine? Reston, Staff and the SB are willing to place their bets, we're not.

Clarifier Wrote:

>
> South Lakes has an immediate opening for 700+
> students. The first wave will only fill a quarter
> of that capacity. It will take four years to get
> to the numbers needed for full course offerings.
> So the need is NOW and the opportunity is NOW and
> the kids who move there in the next year will
> benefit right away from changes in curricula that
> can be made with the first wave of students.
>
> Remember: There are only a few more than 1,100
> general ed kids at SL now. That's 275 per grade.
> In four years, there should be 450 per grade. That
> is a significant number for being able to offer
> the same kinds of courses other schools provide.

Again, how is South Lakes' need more pressing than Falls Church High School?

Additionally, South Lakes is in pretty good shape if you look at Falls Church HS - why hasn't that been an issue:
SOUTH LAKES HS
Capacity..........2100
2007 Enrollment...1443 (68.7% capacity)
ESOL Percentage...7.4% (11th most of 25 HS)
F&RLunch %........25.6% (8th most of 25 HS)
Post Index........63 (1.991)

NOW LOOK AT FALLS CHURCH:
Capacity..........2000
2007 Enrollment...1318 (65.9% capacity)
ESOL Percentage...15.6% (2nd most of 25 HS)
F&RLunch %........43.9% (2nd most of 25 HS)
Post Index........51 (2.245)

They seem to be in worse shape than South Lakes.

-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote: oops, she meant Polly
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The alternatives scenario does not affect the
> > outcome of Coppermine/McNair changes. So South
> > Lakes parents ARE in favor of leaving McNair
> alone
> > for now. The question of where McNair students,
> > and students now west of Centerville Road
> > (currently in Floris) and new students in new
> > developments go, can be left up to the future.
> >
> > None of those neighborhoods abuts South Lakes
> and
> > therefore, South Lakes proximity issues would
> not
> > be affected by any of those changes, and no one
> > who is affected now would be affected by future
> > changes.
> >
> > South Lakes has an immediate opening for 700+
> > students. The first wave will only fill a
> quarter
> > of that capacity. It will take four years to
> get
> > to the numbers needed for full course
> offerings.
> > So the need is NOW and the opportunity is NOW
> and
> > the kids who move there in the next year will
> > benefit right away from changes in curricula
> that
> > can be made with the first wave of students.
> >
> > Remember: There are only a few more than 1,100
> > general ed kids at SL now. That's 275 per
> grade.
> > In four years, there should be 450 per grade.
> That
> > is a significant number for being able to offer
> > the same kinds of courses other schools
> provide.
>

I'm sorry, but this does sound like the school baord talking. barawk, barawk.

The question of where these students go to high school is answered now. Not next year or in the future. Leaving McNair and Coppermine, with all of their potential growth, at Westfield does nothing to reduce Westfield's capacity. In fact it only makes it worse. Oh oops, that's right, this mission is only about filling South Lakes up NOW with advantaged kids NOW. Your targeted area of Floris is aging and is filling with empty nesters who, just like in Reston are going no where. You will not find your 450 numbers in these communities.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 08:21AM by Flurries.

Flurries Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
>
> >
> > South Lakes has an immediate opening for 700+
> > students. The first wave will only fill a
> quarter
> > of that capacity. It will take four years to
> get
> > to the numbers needed for full course
> offerings.
> > So the need is NOW and the opportunity is NOW
> and
> > the kids who move there in the next year will
> > benefit right away from changes in curricula
> that
> > can be made with the first wave of students.
> >
> > Remember: There are only a few more than 1,100
> > general ed kids at SL now. That's 275 per
> grade.
> > In four years, there should be 450 per grade.
> That
> > is a significant number for being able to offer
> > the same kinds of courses other schools
> provide.
>
> Again, how is South Lakes' need more pressing than
> Falls Church High School?
>
> Additionally, South Lakes is in pretty good shape
> if you look at Falls Church HS - why hasn't that
> been an issue:
> SOUTH LAKES HS
> Capacity..........2100
> 2007 Enrollment...1443 (68.7% capacity)
> ESOL Percentage...7.4% (11th most of 25 HS)
> F&RLunch %........25.6% (8th most of 25 HS)
> Post Index........63 (1.991)
>
> NOW LOOK AT FALLS CHURCH:
> Capacity..........2000
> 2007 Enrollment...1318 (65.9% capacity)
> ESOL Percentage...15.6% (2nd most of 25 HS)
> F&RLunch %........43.9% (2nd most of 25 HS)
> Post Index........51 (2.245)
>
> They seem to be in worse shape than South Lakes.


When I asked this same question a long time ago using Wakefield, Mt. Vernon, Falls Church, Marshall and West Potomac as examples, I was told that those schools don't have areas of advantaged kids right around them from which to pull students. In other words, there is no hope for them, but South Lakes apparently has a wealth of advantaged people nearby from which to poach students. Interestingly enough, the whole reason Tistadt said they can't include Langley and/or Madison is that the overcrowding issues at Westfield and Chantilly would cause those studetns to take seats from the two schools that are overcrowded. Yet the SLPTSA's new option that is now on the FCPS website removes the absolute fewest number of kids from those two schools to fix the problem. This process is so transparent it is just nuts. How much more obvious can it be that the SLPTSA was in Stu's pocket from the get go?

> Leaving McNair and Coppermine, with all
> of their potential growth, at Westfield does
> nothing to reduce Westfield's capacity. In fact
> it only makes it worse.

I really cannot see any more growth occuring in McNair right now. It's pretty much completely built up here. Even with the increase in the immigrant population, I have observed a slow exodus of non-immigrants from the area.

Westfield HS's student population will not increase because of the McNair district; only the percentage of ESOL students vice non-ESOL will increase.

There are thousands of housing units being built on the other side of Centreville Rd . Why do you think they are building a new elementary school?

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Leaving McNair and Coppermine, with all
> > of their potential growth, at Westfield does
> > nothing to reduce Westfield's capacity. In
> fact
> > it only makes it worse.
>
> I really cannot see any more growth occuring in
> McNair right now. It's pretty much completely
> built up here. Even with the increase in the
> immigrant population, I have observed a slow
> exodus of non-immigrants from the area.
>
> Westfield HS's student population will not
> increase because of the McNair district; only the
> percentage of ESOL students vice non-ESOL will
> increase.

Take a quick look at the CIP. Combined growth for Floris and McNair = larger population at Westfield. There is no growth in the small Floris chunck that is targeted for removal. This means that the remaining Floris and McNair areas absorb the growth and so does Westfield.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are thousands of housing units being built
> on the other side of Centreville Rd . Why do you
> think they are building a new elementary school?

I have observed a new condo/townhouse development on Coppermine, but I wouldn't quantify it as thousands of units. Are you aware of other neighborhoods being built?

> Take a quick look at the CIP. Combined growth for
> Floris and McNair = larger population at
> Westfield. There is no growth in the small Floris
> chunck that is targeted for removal. This means
> that the remaining Floris and McNair areas absorb
> the growth and so does Westfield.

Even with planned growth in Floris and McNair, SB still anticipates a drop in Westfield HS's population due to overall attrition.

Take a look at this http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/DullesAreaDevelopment.pdf

FXC exec called Reston becoming a town Balkanization of FXC. Strauss seems to be the Queen Bee of the School Board and works in concert with Gibson [her Consigliore]. A few years ago [pre-Kilmer Gt center] they had somewhat of a brief disagreement on their Gt center finagling.

Dr Domenech administratively boundary changed new stuff out of Langley located in herndon and reston and did not allow Gulick to send Cameron Place to Langley [originally marketed as such]. Aldrin acts like it's neighbor Forest edge is a 1700's leper colony [except if a parent thinks the education will help with getting into TJ]. Leaving Aldrin at Herndon forever removes potential eleemntary boundary processes between adjacent blocks of students. Just what makes that school so special? Parts of Madison island could join the Westbriar Island.

Move into South Lakes:
A. areas polticians deceided would be in this boundary process
1. Aldrin - excluding sends the message that SOUTH LAKES IS NOW AND FOREVER INFERIOR.
2. Fox Mill- only portion that makes the school below capacity - NOT the Fox Mill Triangle. Move all Japanese out of Floris NOW.
3. Madison Island- only portion indubitably not attached to Westbriar Island -

B. Excluded from South Lakes process due to politics:
1. Colvin Glen [?]- developement roads morph into Forest Edge /South Lakes attendance area that opens onto Hunter mill. Cobble Pond on google maps ...
2. Reston's Wyndham hills that mysteriously does not go to Aldrin
----------------------------------------------

The above gives South lakes a nice boundary - without removing opportunity for future changes including Coppermine or what could be done to fill up Marshall and falls Church.
----------------------------------------------

Clarifier wrote:
I knew from the start that my neighborhood would not be redistricted -- made no sense from many standpoints. I do love my current neighborhood and neighbors (most of whom have told me they'd be fine with South Lakes, btw.) Now I have two places to call "hometown."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How on God’s earth did you know our neighborhood would not be redistricted? (insider info?? again??)

And, since we’re now in the same “hood”, (trying to use the lingo you must be comfortable with), let me tell you a secret, 97% of your global neighbors have been against leaving Oakton in favor of South Lakes. And, if, as you say, “many have told you they’d be fine with South lakes”, they’re humoring you, so as to move on with their day. I’d tell you anything as well …

I bet South Lakes would be willing to trade you back to Oakton if South Lakes could gain a substantial AP program! Lets put that on the table.

Maybe that should be Option 6 ????

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a look at this
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/DullesAreaDevelopment.pdf


Pretty interesting document. Just took a look at it, and it does imply large growth (possibly into the thousand+ range of units). However, a large chunk of that are condos - I've already seen some of them go up. Also, there are some areas in the pending categorization on certain tracts of land that may end up zoned for business, instead. I'll drive around and see how much of this can be validated.

Thanks!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>I do love my current neighborhood and
> neighbors (most of whom have told me they'd be
> fine with South Lakes, btw.)<<<
>
> Another total lie. Your neighbors have fought
> vigorously to avoid being moved to South Lakes.
> I'm quite sure that the Crossfield parents here
> will be glad to tell you themselves that your view
> is NOT the view of your neighbors. Or you can ask
> them at the meeting on Wednesday. Please, ask
> them. We will too.
>
> In fact, I bet your neighbors will more than
> happy to help you find a home in Reston so you can
> move back to where you'll be more comfortable.I
> hear that there will be many bargains to had there
> in the Fox Mill area if they are sent to South
> Lakes. You'll love it there with your little cabal
> of bullies.

Clarifier, I don't doubt that your neighbors told you that, but consider why. You clearly feel strongly about this issue, and your neighbors probably didn't want an earful.

With the cost of single families homes being what it is, you are going to find more and more families living in condos... as they do in Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, etc. Change is on the way.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the meantime, the current new alternative meets
> SOUTH LAKES' needs -- which is the issue at hand.


I thought the need was the "horrible" overcrowding at Chantilly. Oh, that and the competition is too tough to become a friggin' cheerleader at Westfield.

Neither have been addressed -- only South Lakes' needs have been met at the expense of Oakton.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are thousands of housing units being
> built
> > on the other side of Centreville Rd . Why do
> you
> > think they are building a new elementary
> school?
>
> I have observed a new condo/townhouse development
> on Coppermine, but I wouldn't quantify it as
> thousands of units. Are you aware of other
> neighborhoods being built?

According to FFX County records there are 4741 units in the pipeline to built west of Centerville Road. Most will be garden apts.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> According to FFX County records there are 4741
> units in the pipeline to built west of Centerville
> Road. Most will be garden apts.


Gee... just what we need -- more apartments!

This used to be a beautiful area. Now it seems the only development is either apartments or GINORMOUS houses that are three feet away from each other. What happened to normal sized houses with a yard?

*sigh*

If only I could move back to Michigan....

FME mom could not be more correct. Oakton was included in this study only because (according to the SB and administration) their proximity to WHS and CHS. It appears, at this point, that they are the ones who are being "shortchanged" in this whole process.

Consider the following (no judgements) relative to the current scenario:

1. Westfields remains a "large" school, but has some nominal growth room.
2. Chantilly remains over capacity without the trailers, and near capacity with them.
3. Oakton goes from near capacity to significantly under capacity.
4. South Lakes approaches capacity with little room for growth.
5. Langley (which shares the largest geographic border with SL and has the students in closest proximity to SL) begins and ends over capacity.
6. Madison (which shares the 2nd largest georgraphic border with SL and has the next most proximate set of stuents) begins and ends over capacity.
7. The population growth is Westward, but the shifts are primarily to move students eastward.

If anyone were to take a step back and just quickly look at the situation, they might realize that the two most over-capacity schools are EAST of South Lakes, s there should be a westward shift of students.

This is not about liking or disliking SL, but about logic and fairness. Currently, all we are seeing are politics.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> Pulling Armstrong out of Herndon and into
> SLHS
> >
> > >> doesn't make sense.
> >
> > >Why?
> >
> > Location, Location, Location.
>
> Meaning what? Can you write something other than
> cliches or did you go to UVA too.
>
Armstrong Elementary school students live right next to Herndon High School.

> > >> Would the Floris parents who oppose the
> > Alternate
> > >> Scenario have been happy to be moved to
> Herndon
> > as
> > >>proposed in Option 4?
> >
> > >Why not its closer to them than SL and just as
> > good as SL.
> >
> > Are you a Floris parent who opposes the
> Alternate
> > Scenario and supports Option 4?
>
> what are you talking about?


I know Floris parents who would like their children to go to South Lakes. Some of those parents do not want their children to go to Herndon.

I wondered if some of the Floris parents who are opposed to the newest option, which moves their children to South Lakes, were fans of Option 4, which moved their children to Herndon. You answered for them. Then I asked if you were, in fact, one of the rare breed of Floris parent who supported Option 4.

My understanding was that the Floris parents against the new scenario didn't want to go to Herndon any more than they want to go to South Lakes.

Option 4 moved the two best performing feeder schools from Herndon, and replaced them with Floris and McNair. McNair parents were vocal about not wanting to leave Westfield. I expect that Floris parents were as reticent to go to Herndon as they are to South Lakes.

That is why I didn't like Option 4. It was very disruptive to the student/parent body of Herndon. No other option would remove the majority achieving feeder area of a high school to replace it with a new core, who are opposed to attending that school. I would not support any redistricting that removed the majority of high achieving, closely located students from a school and replaced them wholesale with another group.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> Would the Floris parents who oppose the
> > > Alternate
> > > >> Scenario have been happy to be moved to
> > Herndon
> > > as
> > > >>proposed in Option 4?
> > >
> > > >Why not its closer to them than SL and just
> as
> > > good as SL.
> > >
> > > Are you a Floris parent who opposes the
> > Alternate
> > > Scenario and supports Option 4?
> >
> > what are you talking about?
>
>
> I know Floris parents who would like their
> children to go to South Lakes. Some of those
> parents do not want their children to go to
> Herndon.
>
> I wondered if some of the Floris parents who are
> opposed to the newest option, which moves their
> children to South Lakes, were fans of Option 4,
> which moved their children to Herndon. You
> answered for them. Then I asked if you were, in
> fact, one of the rare breed of Floris parent who
> supported Option 4.
>
> My understanding was that the Floris parents
> against the new scenario didn't want to go to
> Herndon any more than they want to go to South
> Lakes.
>
> Option 4 moved the two best performing feeder
> schools from Herndon, and replaced them with
> Floris and McNair. McNair parents were vocal
> about not wanting to leave Westfield. I expect
> that Floris parents were as reticent to go to
> Herndon as they are to South Lakes.
>
> That is why I didn't like Option 4. It was very
> disruptive to the student/parent body of Herndon.
> No other option would remove the majority
> achieving feeder area of a high school to replace
> it with a new core, who are opposed to attending
> that school. I would not support any
> redistricting that removed the majority of high
> achieving, closely located students from a school
> and replaced them wholesale with another group.

Welcome to FCPS. Armstrong and Aldrin have perpetual immunity. Has Aldrin ever been in a boundary process except for moving around Gt center kids in elementary school? No. They are not conjoined twins. Get over it. Armstrong has a Reston address yet is more of a Herndon school [think Crossfield]. Aldrin has that swoop on it - but other than that should be at South Lakes with the bulk of it's neighbors - Forest Edge and Lake Anne.

Everyone knows it's BS -- kids can walk to each otehrs houses without crossing a street.

Does that apply to Reston? Why RTC's growth is not considered? Interesting...

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the cost of single families homes being what
> it is, you are going to find more and more
> families living in condos... as they do in
> Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, etc. Change
> is on the way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 12:02PM by Floris.

Memo to self (If I was ever to become a realtor):

Move as humanly close as you possibly can to the high school that you want your kids to attend ....Redistricting problems (hopefully) go bye-bye......

The strong hand tactics and dirty tricks of SLPTA only lead to one sad result, which is, SLHS has lost its respect to all the non-SLHS parents. After listening to all the negative comments on SLPTA through this unfair process, children who are being forced to SLHS now all believe, SLHS is a school that has no self-esteem at all. It's the lack of self esteem and lack of confidence in SLHS that caused SHPTA went all out to sell SLHS to the county like a whore.
A lot of the parents will do whatever they can to avoid sending their children to SLHS. For those unlucky few who have no choices and are forced to SLHS, they will have very strong resentment to SLHS and some of them will hate SLHS so much that, they will rather quit HS than setting their feet on SLHS's foot step.
What a shame. There are much better solutoins out there to attract students to SLHS and to promote SLHS. Unfortunately, due to the bullying tactics of the school board and the dirty sales tactics of SLPTA backing by the school board, SLHS is ranked the most hated HS in the county now.
Would you send your children to a school that has no self esteem and its PTA acting like a whore? I bet you would not.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Armstrong Elementary school students live right
> next to Herndon High School.


And leaving those walkers at HHS make perfect sense.

Armstong's attendance area is shaped like a set of pliers and the opposite end of the attendance area is as close to SL as most of Forest Edge; as is all of Aldrin.

No excuse for Aldrin not coming to SL, they could have split Armstong as the staff is proposing for Floris.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 12:38PM by Thomas More.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> Would the Floris parents who oppose the
> > > Alternate
> > > >> Scenario have been happy to be moved to
> > Herndon
> > > as
> > > >>proposed in Option 4?
> > >
> > > >Why not its closer to them than SL and just
> as
> > > good as SL.
> > >
> > > Are you a Floris parent who opposes the
> > Alternate
> > > Scenario and supports Option 4?
> >
> > what are you talking about?
>
>
> I know Floris parents who would like their
> children to go to South Lakes. Some of those
> parents do not want their children to go to
> Herndon.
>
> I wondered if some of the Floris parents who are
> opposed to the newest option, which moves their
> children to South Lakes, were fans of Option 4,
> which moved their children to Herndon. You
> answered for them. Then I asked if you were, in
> fact, one of the rare breed of Floris parent who
> supported Option 4.
>
> My understanding was that the Floris parents
> against the new scenario didn't want to go to
> Herndon any more than they want to go to South
> Lakes.
>
> Option 4 moved the two best performing feeder
> schools from Herndon, and replaced them with
> Floris and McNair. McNair parents were vocal
> about not wanting to leave Westfield. I expect
> that Floris parents were as reticent to go to
> Herndon as they are to South Lakes.
>
> That is why I didn't like Option 4. It was very
> disruptive to the student/parent body of Herndon.
> No other option would remove the majority
> achieving feeder area of a high school to replace
> it with a new core, who are opposed to attending
> that school. I would not support any
> redistricting that removed the majority of high
> achieving, closely located students from a school
> and replaced them wholesale with another group.

It seems no redistricting within the current boundary study would fit your criteria. It that an accident or ex post facto rationalization.

slverity - your response was a fair one. But irrespective of your honorable intentions, do you not see the point that a failure by the School Board to act transparently and openly will only hurt the cause that South Lakes parents purportedly support - that of increasing enrollment of general education, i.e., adjusted middle class students?

This just seems to make sense to me because, in a way unknown to me prior to the redistricting discussions, there have been concerted efforts (or so it seems) by parents living in the South Lakes district to avoid South Lakes High School. And it appears that those efforts have in part been "successful" - as in contributing to a significant decline in enrollment beyond what demographic indicators would reflect. So, if there already is a problem, no matter whether now borne from perception or reality, just how much of a problem do you think will be created if a whole bunch of parents become royally pissed off by a faulty process? Remember, we aren't talking about a commercial transaction here - we are talking about kids, and people get very irrational about their children - meaning that they can remain pissed off for a time period well in excess of, let's say, a lemon car deal. So in the end it strikes me that the non-impulsive, politically astute thing to do for all parents, but especially the South Lakes parents, would be to insist to the Board that they transact this process as openly and in as principled way as possible. Ignore this at your peril. And maybe its too late. But the focus should be on success, just not change that offers some sort of promise.

It also clear to me that the current School Board has miserably failed in its efforts to support SLHS and is frankly the cause of its population demise. At some point, I would ask myself why it is I would even want to be perceived as being in league with these leaders? The school did not dilute to 1400 (and 1100 general students) by accident - it was driven right to that curb by a combination of poor choices and faddish "progressive" notions that did not have empirical support.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Memo to self (If I was ever to become a realtor):
>
> Move as humanly close as you possibly can to the
> high school that you want your kids to attend
> ....Redistricting problems (hopefully) go
> bye-bye......


Isn't that funny, because the choice Floris candidates being considered for Coppermine are Floris' walkers.

Better note to yourself, don't move to FFX Co.

Dear Quantum,

I wish we could have this conversation off-line, as I have grown tired of posting here and have come to the conclusion that this board has reached the end of its useful life, at least for me. If you wish to continue the conversation privately, please register as Quantum so we can communicate privately.

Merry Christmas.

I'm talking high school, darlin', high school. Reread the post.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> Would the Floris parents who oppose the
> > > Alternate
> > > >> Scenario have been happy to be moved to
> > Herndon
> > > as
> > > >>proposed in Option 4?
> > >
> > > >Why not its closer to them than SL and just
> as
> > > good as SL.
> > >
> > > Are you a Floris parent who opposes the
> > Alternate
> > > Scenario and supports Option 4?
> >
> > what are you talking about?
>
>
> I know Floris parents who would like their
> children to go to South Lakes. Some of those
> parents do not want their children to go to
> Herndon.
>
> I wondered if some of the Floris parents who are
> opposed to the newest option, which moves their
> children to South Lakes, were fans of Option 4,
> which moved their children to Herndon. You
> answered for them. Then I asked if you were, in
> fact, one of the rare breed of Floris parent who
> supported Option 4.
>
> My understanding was that the Floris parents
> against the new scenario didn't want to go to
> Herndon any more than they want to go to South
> Lakes.
>
> Option 4 moved the two best performing feeder
> schools from Herndon, and replaced them with
> Floris and McNair. McNair parents were vocal
> about not wanting to leave Westfield. I expect
> that Floris parents were as reticent to go to
> Herndon as they are to South Lakes.
>
> That is why I didn't like Option 4. It was very
> disruptive to the student/parent body of Herndon.
> No other option would remove the majority
> achieving feeder area of a high school to replace
> it with a new core, who are opposed to attending
> that school. I would not support any
> redistricting that removed the majority of high
> achieving, closely located students from a school
> and replaced them wholesale with another group.


There are a number of Floris parents who would send their children to Herndon. Floris is in, hmmm, Herndon. You can be sure that after viewing this latest proposal there are many more "Florisians" who now prefer going to Herndon rather than South Lakes. And, oh yeah, Herndon is closer and has AP.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm talking high school, darlin', high school.
> Reread the post.


Still makes no difference. It is Fairfax County. The staff and school board does whatever they want. Regardless if it makes sense.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as I have grown tired of posting here and have
> come to the conclusion that this board has reached
> the end of its useful life, at least for me.

Say it ain't so, SLVerity!
I think you have presented a lot of useful information, for me at least, and have enjoyed your civility in the course of this debate.

Thomas More Wrote:
->
> Note to forum
>
> Option 5 is not a SL PTSA product but rather the
> product of a small subgroup of Sl moms, some of
> whom also happen to be SL PTSA officers who have
> been less that clear when they are speaking for
> the PTSA and when they are speaking for themselves
> as individuals.
>
> This SL parent does not support the Alternative
> Option (Option 5) and neither do many other
> Restonians.


Based on this, I have to wonder what your thoughts are on the *NEW* talking points now posted by the South Lakes PTSA at their PTSA website. If it is indeed the work of a very small subgroup of mothers (PTSA or not--it is a bit confusing), how is it that they have priority posting over other Restonians, on the South Lakes PTSA website? Where is your disposition paper or those of others?

Many of these talking points are inaccurate but that is a side note we shouldn't worry with, at the moment.

Nutty kids.......

OAKTON OUTLOOK 12/18/07

"When put side by side, differences between Oakton and South Lakes balance out"
by Matt Johnson

South Lakes High School is dangerous. At least, that is what a number of vocal parents speaking out against the West County Boundary Study want you to believe.
South Lakes High School is dangerous. At least, that is what a number of vocal parents speaking out against the West County Boundary Study want you to believe. Based on the claims of various parents, an outsider would presume the school is a constant battleground - a dead-end rampant with drugs and gang violence.
To rid ourselves of the status of "outsider," we took one day to visit this war zone. As students of Oakton, a school with rough pockets of its own, we shadowed students at South Lakes to observe and examine. How rough is it really? How does AP compare to IB? Overall, how do Oakton and South Lakes stack up side-by-side?

Here is what we found.

Crime and Violence

The first rumor about South Lakes was dispelled immediately upon entering the building. There were, in fact, no metal detectors at the door. In reality, the only abnormality was all the construction equipment surrounding the school. No drug deals, no drive-bys, no violence - just students filing off busses and into the school.

South Lakes has had trouble shedding the negative reputation it acquired in the '80s. "Urban legends" have formed about the school and despite behavioral changes, the off-putting reputation persists.

"South Lakes was bad a long time ago," explained Jamal Cooper, a sophomore at South Lakes. "But it is completely different now. The people are different now."

South Lakes had 26 fights over the 2005-2006 school year. While that may sound like a daunting statistic, the numbers are very subjective.

"Those are [numbers] that we type in, and we are pretty strict," said South Lakes Principal Bruce Butler. "I'm not implying other schools [falsify] it, but we have incredible detail in what we type in. To me, that is proof that this is a safe and secure place because we don't fool around. Why would any of us work here if it were like that?"

Collectively, we personally have witnessed nine fights at Oakton over our combined five years; surely South Lakes students could match that number or far surpass it. However, the students we talked to said they have witnessed anywhere from zero to three fights during their time at South Lakes, not far off from the average Oakton student.

"People say it's a dangerous school," said Matt Ravenstahl, South Lakes fine arts teacher for 14 years. "I have never once seen a fight. I have never once broken up a fight. I have never once felt threatened or endangered."

Diversity

Some look at the demographics of the student body at South Lakes and think it has a negative impact on behavior and academics. But you would be hard-pressed to find a student or teacher at South Lakes who doesn't think the diversity is one the school's best features.

Students and teachers say the diversity makes for a different high school experience, as well as a unique opportunity to be immersed in some of the things they learn about during class.

"I love the fact that we have such a diverse population," Ravenstahl said. "When you have a student who lived in some other part of the world and has been taught completely different views, how great is that? That's the way the world is; it is a smaller place. We all have different views on things; we should probably understand them."

English Teacher Amy Porter went to Oakton as a student and now teaches at South Lakes. She said the diverse demographic changes the social interactions between students.

"I think that even walking through the hallways it has a different vibe, primarily because of the cultural diversity," Porter said. "A lot of the times when people think about diversity, they have negative connotations associated with it. I feel like the cliques aren't as prevalent as they tend to be in much more affluent areas. I think there are a lot of opportunities here for anyone of any socio-economic background to get involved in any activity that she chooses. Overall, I think it has a positive influence on the kids who go here."

Administration and Teachers

"I know that the administration is there if you need help," said junior Scott Miller, said of the Oakton administration. "But I don't see them on a regular basis."

Often students only see and associate with administrators when they are being reprimanded. At South Lakes, not only were the administrators actively roaming the halls between classes but they were openly conversing with students, as well.

"There is a really solid administration here at South Lakes, and I think it's felt throughout the whole school," said Rita Gigliotti, choir and vocal instructor. "I think the teachers feel it and the students feel it. They are always looking for ways to really get involved and know what's going on."

"BRUCCEEEEE."

While we were at lunch, Principal Butler wandered around the cafeteria, greeting most students by name. As he passed our table, everyone in unison shouted his first name. We expected a confrontation or a stern lecture on the importance of respect. To our surprise, not only did neither occur, rather he passed with a pleasant smile and wave.

"Principal Butler knows everyone in the school's name," said Shruti Kuppa, sophomore.

The administration's attentive involvement seems to carry over to the rest of the faculty, who make it a point to have fun, interactive classes. In all the classes we sat through, teachers made an effort to add some fun to what they were doing. In a French class, the students played a vocab review game with white boards and music. In a government class, the outspoken teacher led a discussion about the Bill of Rights, using funny anecdotes that gave meaning to some difficult concepts.

Teachers also tended to branch outside of the core curriculum. We talked to students who used one or even zero textbooks. As students who get backaches from our textbook filled backpacks, this was a refreshing idea.

"The teachers are really involved; I have never had a teacher at South Lakes who doesn't take the time to get to know their students," Kuppa said. "Of course, you have some tough teachers, but they are all very understanding and willing to compromise."

Atmosphere

Not only does the administration work to build relationships with students, but they also work to build relations from student to student. Through the use of a mentoring program, a system that emulates the "buddy" program that most of us are familiar with from elementary school, the divide between upperclassmen and lowerclassmen is eroded.

"Upperclassmen mentors go to the freshmen classes and we talk with freshmen," said Noor Hachwi, junior. "We are assigned freshmen and help out if they have any questions."

The mentors work with groups of five to six students at an allotted time, once a month, during class. They get to know the lowerclassmen in hopes of encouraging a healthy relationship that would promote active involvement in the school.

"My mentor was amazing," Kuppa said. "She was an upperclassman that I could go to. It made the transition to high school easier. I wasn't afraid of all of the 'big kids.'"

As we walked through the halls, big groups of mentors sat in circles with their underclassmen "mentees" sprawled out around the floor. After playing two group- oriented games, the boys and girls split up and discussed any problems or topics someone was willing to suggest. When the circle came around to us, we asked the probing question.

"Do any of you feel endangered or not safe at any point in time?"

Not a single head nodded yes. In fact, most looked in confusion at each other, wondering why such a question would even be asked.

"Are any of you unhappy at South Lakes or wish you went to another school?"

Once again, not a single head nodded yes, and more confused glances were shot across the circle. We can sense insincerity; their answers were genuine. These students were not screened; they were not prepped. Until we walked into the classroom, they did not know we existed or what our purpose was.

College Acceptance

Go to any high school in the country and you're probably going to find that the main stress, the driving force for students, is college acceptance. We all know that it is true at Oakton, and South Lakes is no exception.

Students' schedules are filled with numerous extra-curricular activities and their days are spent working just as rigorously as students at Oakton. Students have internships, work hard for an IB diploma, devote hours to community service and homework for challenging classes. In fact, the Leadership class reviews roughly 500 letters every week. These letters are all from applicants who apply to Eastern Motors for their car give away. South Lakes is one of six high schools to perform this task.

"I think we have some really amazing students here who go on to do some great things and who have gone to some very impressive colleges," said Marie Assir, South Lakes career center specialist.

In the past four years, South Lakes has had students accepted into Columbia, Georgetown, UVA, Princeton, Yale and many more prestigious universities.

Sports and Arts

Academically, South Lakes is pretty comparable with Oakton. However, sports are a different story. Although they have had some exceptional athletes, such as NBA player Grant Hill and Olympian runner Alan Webb, overall, their athletics do not statistically stack up to that of Oakton.

Despite the mediocrity of their sports program, Seahawk athletes are confident that with the incoming students from the border study, their chances at better records in sports improve.

"The teams try hard," Cooper said, "but when you are so under-populated, you just don't stand a chance against schools with twice as many people."

Small teams are tough to have success with, but the musical and departments have not suffered from the lack of students.

"We have 113 kids in chorus this year," Gigliotti said. "More kids are always great, but I don't think the quality of education changes."

"Oakton is a very sports driven school," said Alex Perry, Oakton junior. "Athletics are extremely competitive resulting in talented programs and an even greater focus on winning."

Few Oakton students would deny the intense emphasis on the sports program, which occasionally leaves some feeling like the arts are on the back-burner. It was clear that South Lakes has balanced their priorities when it comes to extra curriculars. Stemming, again, from administrative interest and involvement.

"I get things all the time from Mr. Butler, like, 'can the choir sing for this?' or 'I'm going to bring so and so by to see the choir today.' He really makes an effort," Gigliotti explained. "He's really involved and that transcends to the other administrators. I have numerous people, administrators and teachers, ask me, 'When is you're concert? We really want to come.' It's very supportive."

Renovation

South Lakes is currently undergoing a $48.2 million renovation plan. Although construction is still underway, the school already has gotten a lot of new technological equipment and school essentials that gives it a more modern feel than Oakton.

Plasma screens can be found along the wall of the main hallway and the career center. New desks have a contemporary look to them. Most classrooms are equipped with a digital projector, mounted solidly on the ceiling rather than obstructively on a cart.

"We have brand new desks, computers, books," listed Joey Giordano, freshmen. "There's also a brand new computer lab, brand new cafeterias, new projectors; it's cool."

The recent boundary study has sparked intense debate within our community as a whole. The prospect of change is often a frightening one. However, regardless of the study results, one fact remains the same.

"Whoever walks through that door, we are going to welcome them," Butler said to an emotional Leadership classroom. "Wherever they might come from, they might be from Mars; we are going to welcome them."

Here is what the helpful people at SL PTSA have put together for talking points. Be prepared to counter these points.

Heads up to Fox Mill and Floris - SL is very concerned about your commute times... what a bunch of creeps


Long version - http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/TalkingPoints-long.pdf
Short version - http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/Talkingpointsvery-short.pdf

> "Whoever walks through that door, we are going to welcome them," Butler said

Heads up McNair this does not apply to you.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is what the helpful people at SL PTSA have
> put together for talking points. Be prepared to
> counter these points.
>
> Heads up to Fox Mill and Floris - SL is very
> concerned about your commute times... what a bunch
> of creeps

It's so nice to be wanted. I feel like the average looking girl who gets asked out because everyone is scared to ask out the pretty girl (Langley and Madison) because they know that she's "out of their league"

Yep, It's nice that the experiment of Reston fails so they have to extend their tentacles beyond the borders to suck up some of us, "Middle and upper strata" or "achievers" or that my community "supports achievement" Yep, what does that say about South Lakes folks.

Oh, by the way, that's still Reston to the north and west of you. Oh wait, they are the communities who support achievement and want their kids in Herndon's schools.

It's also nice to know that since Carson is already split to 3-4 schools not including TJ that adding another is not a big deal. We have supportive families so we can over come adversity. We have a work ethic to fall back on.

Oh, will someone please ask why the top 12 schools in the district are all AP and 5 of the bottom 7 are IB. Or why 7 of the 8 IB programs all fall within the most socio-economically "challenged" schools based on the numbers (new CIP) - is this some sort of experiment in the lower performing schools?

I just found this thread and I am very upset. We just got SL renovated and now the rest of the county wants to go to South Lakes. Go figure!

Look people we don't your troubled kids from Oakton, Chantilly or anything A.D.D. school attending South Lakes.

If the Board members want their kids to take part in the new South Lakes programs that's fine with me, but no kids from Oakton or any other nearby schools!!! It's getting way out hand!

Welcome to the People's Republic of Fairfax where your child is part of a socioeconomic experiment in "balancing".

Chairman Mao would be proud....

Flurries Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> ->
> > Note to forum
> >
> > Option 5 is not a SL PTSA product but rather
> the
> > product of a small subgroup of Sl moms, some of
> > whom also happen to be SL PTSA officers who
> have
> > been less that clear when they are speaking for
> > the PTSA and when they are speaking for
> themselves
> > as individuals.
> >
> > This SL parent does not support the Alternative
> > Option (Option 5) and neither do many other
> > Restonians.
>
>
> Based on this, I have to wonder what your thoughts
> are on the *NEW* talking points now posted by the
> South Lakes PTSA at their PTSA website. If it is
> indeed the work of a very small subgroup of
> mothers (PTSA or not--it is a bit confusing), how
> is it that they have priority posting over other
> Restonians, on the South Lakes PTSA website?
> Where is your disposition paper or those of
> others?
>
> Many of these talking points are inaccurate but
> that is a side note we shouldn't worry with, at
> the moment.

This document was posted by Maria Allen, the web master for the SL PTSA web site and SL PTSA Vice President over my objection and the objection of others. It crosses the line into advocacy and is a breach of the Charter. I advised the SL PTSA President that if it were posted I would ask for the SL PTSA Charter to be revoked. It was posted any way. Feel free to send your own objection letter to your own School Board member asking for SL PTSA to be sanctioned and send a copy to the local press as I will be doing.

The arrogance of this small cabal apparently knows no limits.

That document is even more unbalanced,inaccurate and polemical than the last document which was taken down and both documents should be an embarrassment to the SL PTSA Board.

If this small group have chosen to alienate SL parents of a decade's standing,imagine the mushroom treatment awaiting the new parents to SL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 05:40PM by Thomas More.

If you want to make your thoughts known to the SL PTSA directly the document says to contact Caroline Hemenway: hemenwayc@aol.com

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to make your thoughts known to the SL
> PTSA directly the document says to contact
> Caroline Hemenway: hemenwayc@aol.com

That would be a waste of time since she is the author of these "talking points."

Thomas More Wrote:

> This document was posted by Maria Allen, the web
> master for the SL PTSA web site and SL PTSA Vice
> President over my objection and the objection of
> others. It crosses the line into advocacy and is
> a breach of the Charter. I advised the SL PTSA
> President that if it were posted I would ask for
> the SL PTSA Charter to be revoked. It was posted
> any way. Feel free to send your own objection
> letter to your own School Board member asking for
> SL PTSA to be sanctioned and send a copy to the
> local press as I will be doing.
>
> The arrogance of this small cabal apparently knows
> no limits.
>
> That the document is even more
> unbalanced,inaccurate and polemical than the last
> document which was taken down and both documents
> should be an embarrassment to the SL PTSA Board.
>
> If this small group have chosen to alienate SL
> parents of a decade's standing,imagine the
> mushroom treatment awaiting the new parents to SL.

Dear Small Cabal of One:

Does this mean you have given up on convincing everyone that Option #4 is the only scenario that highly-intelligent, omniscient, non-UVA attending people might ever consider?

"unbalanced,inaccurate and polemical"? Consider the source.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> If you want to make your thoughts known to the SL
>> PTSA directly the document says to contact
>> Caroline Hemenway: hemenwayc@aol.com

> That would be a waste of time since she is the author of these "talking points."

She's sure to be popular with the affected families.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Small Cabal of One:

That would be Maria. Ask her.

Save your bullying tactics for someone else.

See fellow forum members what happens if you don't toe the party line at SL, the vultures attack.

> "unbalanced,inaccurate and polemical"? Consider
> the source.

I have an opinion based on experience, facts and research. Sorry that it is not yours. Consider the source, indeed.


I've never presented myself as speaking for the SL PTSA unlike Maria who treats the SL PTSA as her personal fiefdom.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> If you want to make your thoughts known to the
> SL
> >> PTSA directly the document says to contact
> >> Caroline Hemenway: hemenwayc@aol.com
>
> > That would be a waste of time since she is the
> author of these "talking points."
>
> She's sure to be popular with the affected
> families.

No problem since her neighborhood is not being redistricted into SL.

I actually found Maria Allen's statements about wanting a big slug of good students refreshing - because that is exactly what is on her mind and many other South Lakes parents. And if made by someone not connected with the PTSA, heck, it is hardly shocking - everyone wants this same slug of good students - it makes life far easier, and any school a much more attractive place.

And frankly, from a standpoint of self-interest, I completely understand it, except that it conveniently forgets: i) SLHS didn't get to where it is by accident - someone let it happen - and parents that had the faculties to fight change likely didn't do so in a timely basis - fine - they ought be to free to live and die by liberal sensibilities and "progressive ideals" - but they didn't get results; ii) they are not statements that one associated with the PTSA should be making - it is not a political organization and they reflect a hubris, that, as Thomas More suggests, breeds all kinds of distrust - the lack of common sense among so many continues to astound; and 3) it has the effect of undermining an already distrusted school board, because the introduction of Option 5 furthers the perception that the four options presented are abstract and manipulative discussion points with no or little connection to what actually will take place - a recipe for disaster if there ever was one.

Again, if the objective is to make redistricting a success - and that does not mean to make everyone happy - but a success with a real and meaningful take up rate in the newly formed South Lakes district - and with people willing to embrace the school (if not wholeheartedly, at least realistically) - this is sure the wrong way to go about it. I, of course, could be entirely wrong....

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear Small Cabal of One:
>
> That would be Maria. Ask her.
>
> Save your bullying tactics for someone else.
>
> See fellow forum members what happens if you don't
> toe the party line at SL, the vultures attack.
>
> > "unbalanced,inaccurate and polemical"?
> Consider
> > the source.
>
> I have an opinion based on experience, facts and
> research. Sorry that it is not yours. Consider
> the source, indeed.
>
>
> I've never presented myself as speaking for the SL
> PTSA unlike Maria who treats the SL PTSA as her
> personal fiefdom.

Your words on these pages demonstrate who the bully is.....you repeatedly have gone after anyone who every says a word that varies from your line, or challenges you....or has failed you in some way. The numbers are legion.

You know full well that you could have, and still can, post talking points for your viewpoint and recommended option and place them on the same place as the other ones, with a link from the SLHS PTSA website....Consumers can choose to read, embrace, or disregard, same as the ones that CH has drafted. You chose to vent here, instead.

You have presented yourself repeatedly as the only one with any insight and answers. Let the record speak for itself.

Padre - your anger is getting the best of you... better take a break

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Padre - your anger is getting the best of you...
> better take a break


Ok. Merry Christmas to all.

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> You know full well that you could have, and still
> can, post talking points for your viewpoint and
> recommended option and place them on the same
> place as the other ones, with a link from the SLHS
> PTSA website....Consumers can choose to read,
> embrace, or disregard, same as the ones that CH
> has drafted. You chose to vent here, instead.

My point is that it would be inappropriate to post any advocacy piece on the SL PTSA website whether mine or CH's.

Padre - Feliz Navidad

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > You know full well that you could have, and
> still
> > can, post talking points for your viewpoint and
> > recommended option and place them on the same
> > place as the other ones, with a link from the
> SLHS
> > PTSA website....Consumers can choose to read,
> > embrace, or disregard, same as the ones that CH
> > has drafted. You chose to vent here, instead.
>
> My point is that it would be inappropriate to post
> any advocacy piece on the SL PTSA website whether
> mine or CH's.

You are not willing to write your own advocacy piece for the website but determined that what is currently posted is inappropriate. Who may you judge and jury?

As you well know, but choose to ignore, advocacy for all children is the purpose of the ptsa - read the bylaws... Or possibly you're not even a ptsa member but posing as one. Stop worrying about dismantling the "charter." There is no charter. The FFX County Council of PTAs has reviewed the website and deemed it suitable.

Get over it.

TO the SLPTSA, in your "talking points" you state that Navy will be partially united, but neighborhoods will be in tact.....FYI the boundary line, in the latest scenario, runs right down the middle of my child's current BUS !!!! some kids on the bus will move to Oakton and some will stay at Chantilly. I guess 2 busses driving down the same road to 2 schools in opposite directions is the right answer.

I ask everyone to look at their ADC Map - look up Fair Oaks Hospital then look at Chantilly High School. Tell me what sense it makes to send these neighborhoods to Oakton when we are 2 miles from Chantilly?????

We will be at Oakton tomorrow night in FULL FORCE!!!

kiss your kids goodnight and know that there are many of us who know something essential to stop this and also know that your SB knows what we know unless they are "newbies" in which case they are being kept out of the secret. There is info on the FCPS website that shows how wrong this is. Spend more time on the 2006 board docs, they tell the story.Sleep easy, Navy, Foxmill, Floris, Madison Island we stand beside you all. South Lakes we believe in you too. We know that you are doing better and that you deserve to stand on what you have already accomplished. Congrats to those of you who did not support this craziness, you are about to win!

Advocate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are not willing to write your own advocacy
> piece for the website but determined that what is
> currently posted is inappropriate. Who may you
> judge and jury?

Exercising the rights of a SL parent, what are you afraid of?

> As you well know, but choose to ignore, advocacy
> for all children is the purpose of the ptsa - read
> the bylaws... Or possibly you're not even a ptsa
> member but posing as one. Stop worrying about
> dismantling the "charter." There is no charter.
> The FFX County Council of PTAs has reviewed the
> website and deemed it suitable.

FFX County PTSAs are prohibited from advocating for a specific redistrictiing alignment which is what the Hemenway piece does. FFX County Council of PTAs is not the final arbiter of this issue.

> Get over it.

See how those SL folks are so tolerant of diversity in all things except ideas. Just look at what the parents at Floris and Fox Mill have to look forward to.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 07:25PM by Thomas More.

Let us hope that Christine Arakelian has her day in court with Stu Gibson.
I know that someone from SL will say this is old news but it bears repeating.
With liberals it is always "for the children" - with Gibson, it is about
"use the children".

>>>Oh, will someone please ask why the top 12 schools in the district are all AP and 5 of the bottom 7 are IB. Or why 7 of the 8 IB programs all fall within the most socio-economically "challenged" schools based on the numbers (new CIP) - is this some sort of experiment in the lower performing schools?<<<

Yes. Exactly. IB was first brought to Stuart and Mt Vernon as a way to stop 'white flight'. It was to reassure parents of college bound students that their children would be in a 'special', meaning separate, program. Then it was expanded to all the low performing schools, for the same reason. IB was also supposed to work as a magnet, to attract out of boundary white kids. At the top schools the parents saw through the whole ruse and did not want IB. That was made clear to their school board members and those schools never got stuck with it. IB never worked as FCPS had hoped. It did little to stop white flight, and it only attracted a handful of out of boundary, white, liberal, parents, who thought that surely a European education was better than any American program like AP. Hence, we are where we are today, with South Lakes 700+ under enrolled and Mt Vernon nearly 1,000 under enrolled, despite both having under gone extensive, and expensive, renovations.

For more detailed information, ask Forum Reader. She's the IB pro. She can tell you how Woodson got IB booted from their school and as a result FCPS never again tried to foist it on a high performing school.

When will FCPS accept that parents in this county are smart and they aren't going to fall for every silly thing that FCPS wants to do with our children's education?

Samjee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let us hope that Christine Arakelian has her day
> in court with Stu Gibson.
> I know that someone from SL will say this is old
> news but it bears repeating.
> With liberals it is always "for the children" -
> with Gibson, it is about
> "use the children".

Ah yes, use the children, if it means that I will get re elected. Such a noble cause.

>>>See how those SL folks are so tolerant of diversity in all things except ideas. Just look at what the parents at Floris and Fox Mill have to look forward to.<<<<

Floris and Fox Mill parents are well aware of the lack of tolerance by the SL PTSA parents. I'm sure that we do not need to contribute further to their fears.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Advocate Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are not willing to write your own advocacy
> > piece for the website but determined that what
> is
> > currently posted is inappropriate. Who may you
> > judge and jury?
>
> Exercising the rights of a SL parent, what are you
> afraid of?
>
> > As you well know, but choose to ignore,
> advocacy
> > for all children is the purpose of the ptsa -
> read
> > the bylaws... Or possibly you're not even a
> ptsa
> > member but posing as one. Stop worrying about
> > dismantling the "charter." There is no charter.
>
> > The FFX County Council of PTAs has reviewed the
> > website and deemed it suitable.
>
> FFX County PTSAs are prohibited from advocating
> for a specific redistrictiing alignment which is
> what the Hemenway piece does. FFX County Council
> of PTAs is not the final arbiter of this issue.


Once again, the PTSA is not advocating anything. Caroline Hemenway is. There is a clear disclaimer on the website. There are links to all sorts of documents and websites, including this one. Is the PTSA now supporting FFX Underground?

As you know, you are welcome to write your own talking points and have them posted on the website.

The only thing the ptsas are prohibited from doing is supporting a political campaign.

And by "Get over it" - I mean get over that you are not supported in your wish to add McNair students to Herndon and have Aldrin move to South Lakes.

As has been mentioned previously, only two schools in Herndon pyramid made AYP - they are Aldrin and Armstrong. Neither Herndon high nor Herndon middle made AYP. Why would Jane Strauss vote for any plan that would take Aldrin out of the Herndon pyramid and replace it with McNair, a Title 1 school that has not made AYP in the last three years?

Since Jane Strauss would not support that option, why would we continue down that road? Harping on a scenario or option that you desire, regardless of its feasibility and the potential detriment to other schools, is not a sensible path.

You need to move on...

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Samjee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let us hope that Christine Arakelian has her
> day
> > in court with Stu Gibson.
> > I know that someone from SL will say this is
> old
> > news but it bears repeating.
> > With liberals it is always "for the children" -
> > with Gibson, it is about
> > "use the children".
>
> Ah yes, use the children, if it means that I will
> get re elected. Such a noble cause.

I know - he certainly did use the children. But I didn't realize that Christine was a liberal as well. Didn't she campaign with her son's picture plastered all over with the litany of poor treatment he received as he is twice exceptional? Oops, that's ok I guess. She is the mother after all and should be able to victimize her own son, for god's sake!

>>>>Plasma screens can be found along the wall of the main hallway and the career center. New desks have a contemporary look to them. Most classrooms are equipped with a digital projector, mounted solidly on the ceiling rather than obstructively on a cart.

"We have brand new desks, computers, books," listed Joey Giordano, freshmen. "There's also a brand new computer lab, brand new cafeterias, new projectors; it's cool."<<<

Bless their little hearts. The kids love those plasma screens and computers! How fun for them. I bet they'll have a blast playing with all their new gadgets at their school. I sure hope that Santa can find those Wiis they all want too!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 07:56PM by Neen.

Advocate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know - he certainly did use the children. But I
> didn't realize that Christine was a liberal as
> well. Didn't she campaign with her son's picture
> plastered all over with the litany of poor
> treatment he received as he is twice exceptional?
> Oops, that's ok I guess. She is the mother after
> all and should be able to victimize her own son,
> for god's sake!

You're just as dense as Stu or maybe you are Stu. Christine gets to talk about her child any way she wants. That's the law. Stu can't, but did and thus broke the law. And he's a lawyer who should have known better. He and FCPS were cited. Then he did it again in the papers commenting on the violation notice. Thus, a further violation.

So is he just that dense or that arrogant. You decide or apparently you already have.

The real question is when will he be forced to resign from DOJ and SB?

Yes, it is true that parents can talk about their own children, to their teachers, their principal, or even their school board member. However, NONE of those people can then talk about the child in public to win a political campaign, or for any other reason.

If you ANY doubts, ask your child's teacher if she would go to the press with information about a child in her class, or send a letter to the PTA about the child.

Better yet, ask the state board of education OR the federal Education department. They have BOTH ruled that is a against the law for a school official to discuss a child in public. A parent can discuss their OWN child, a school employee cannot discuss that child.

Get the difference?

From the Fairfax County Council of PTA's:

"In the case of school boundaries, it is wisest for PTAs not to position themselves on either side of the issue because that position may conflict with the needs of all students represented by a PTA."

and also:

"Boundary adjustments (and even the possibility of a boundary adjustment) are emotional, sensitive, and potentially divisive issues. Communities have literally been torn apart during these discussions. PTAs are strongly advised to keep their associations apart from the possible merits or detriments of boundary proposals and remain in a neutral position of advocating for community participation and communication."

as well as:

"PTAs should manage their meetings, communications, and public involvement so as to ensure that at the conclusion of any boundary process the PTA continues to be the comfortable, fair, and most desirable neutral ground for all parties to convene so as to best work for all the children and all the families served by the PTA's school"

>>>You're just as dense as Stu or maybe you are Stu.<<<

My thoughts exactly.


>>>The real question is when will he be forced to resign from DOJ and SB?<<<

You're not the first to pose those questions, nor will you be the last.

I hear there is a petition to recall Mr.Gibson that is receiving wide decimination around the Hunter Mill district.

Perhaps the SLPTSA website would consider adding a link to the StopRD.org website? Simply to "facilitate the flow of information and to encourage discussion" per its disclaimer.

From the Oakton High School PTSA - taking the high road:

The OHS PTSA Executive Board has considered this issue carefully and has decided that the PTSA cannot take a position on the West County Boundary Study. The Board concluded that to take a position on the Boundary Study:


· is contrary to the mission of the PTSA to promote the welfare of children and youth in home, school, community, and place of worship;

· is contrary to our By-Laws which require the PTSA to be noncommercial, nonsectarian, and nonpartisan;

· risks offending the requirement that the PTSA not devote more than an insubstantial part of its activities to attempting to influence legislation (the Boundary Study) by propaganda or otherwise;

· risks our non-profit, tax exempt 501(c)3 status; and

· is likely to divide the OHS community.



The OHS PTSA urges all parents to acquaint themselves with Boundary Study process, to educate themselves as to the issues, and to make their views known at ALL three upcoming town hall meetings.

Does anyone think that it's just a coincidence that the two precints that voted against Stu are also the two areas being redistricted to SL.

That'll teach'em for daring to oppose his craveness.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>You're just as dense as Stu or maybe you are
> Stu.<<<
>
> My thoughts exactly.
>
>
> >>>The real question is when will he be forced to
> resign from DOJ and SB?<<<
>
> You're not the first to pose those questions, nor
> will you be the last.
>
> I hear there is a petition to recall Mr.Gibson
> that is receiving wide decimination around the
> Hunter Mill district.

I read the articles and have heard him speak - you mean he might be actually in real trouble for slamming on a "so-called twice exceptional child?" That rude disparaging crack insults children with disabilites not just her child.
That is sick from someone who is responsible for education policy and opportunities.

Did he mass mail it to PTA members at more than one school? SLHS PTA should blame Gibson for the under population - another party is Strauss . I often wondered how African American board members like Bob Frey and Rita Thompson could look them in the face at meetings.

>>>When I asked this same question a long time ago using Wakefield, Mt. Vernon, Falls Church, Marshall and West Potomac as examples, I was told that those schools don't have areas of advantaged kids right around them<<<

While I cannot speak to all of those schools, I can say that Falls Church and Marshall certainly share borders with such schools as McLean, Langley, and Madison. The areas around those schools are about as 'advantaged' as you can get.

Why does our school board and our staff make up such ridiculous lies? The reason that South Lakes is being redistricted, and the others are not, is because Stu Gibson wanted South Lakes redistricted. It's HIS district, his wants are paramount.

It's things like this that make the public distrust the whole FCPS system. They lie. Everyone knows that they lie. It doesn't inspire trust and confidence in the schools.

>>>Move as humanly close as you possibly can to the high school that you want your kids to attend ....<<<

Be careful with that advice. Ask the parents in the neighborhood where Thoreau sits. Their children are based a Kilmer. The closest houses to Thoreau are in the Kilmer school district. The house NEXT DOOr to Thoreau is kilmer, not Thoreau. The house directly BEHIND Thoreau is Kilmer. Thoreau itself sits in Kilmer school district. Go figure.

>>>Does anyone think that it's just a coincidence that the two precints that voted against Stu are also the two areas being redistricted to SL.

That'll teach'em for daring to oppose his craveness.<<<<

Oh my gosh. How interesting.

Is EVERYONE in REston a bully? Or is it just Stu Gibson, and his followers, the South Lakes PTA?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2007 09:26PM by Neen.

Does anyone feel the pain of the floris community? Why have we been targeted for the last 10 years. We have been moved from Oakton to Westfield, and now after 7 years of support and effort to become part of our "promised West County Schhool", we are being asked to move again.

Does anyone else find all the flashing at the South Lakes PTSA website to be very annoying? It makes me want to get off the page immediately, to make it stop flashing at me.

http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries.htm

I think we all know who the real bullies are.

>>>Did he mass mail it to PTA members at more than one school?<<<

It's my understanding that he sent the letter to the boards of 5 PTA's.

>>>I think we all know who the real bullies are.<<<

Indeed we do, Father.

As a parent who has lived in the Sycamore Ridge community for 15 years, I am pissed off.
Stu promised us that when we left Oakton, that we would be left alone. Is this another example of a Stu lie? This forced "reverse busing" will not be successful. No one who cares about their children would ever consider sending their children to SL High School, when they could be going to Oakton or Westfield.

We would pay for private or pupil place before agreeing to this strong armed attempt to take our children out of a well performing school, and send them to one of the worst performing schools in the county. Does anyone not see the injustice of this? The folks who chose to live in the South Lakes School Pyramid did so based on their knowledge of the school that they wanted to send their kids to. My wife and I did the same research, and decided to pay more to live in the community in which we now reside.

Please understand the we have no issues with Reston, or SL High School, but that we paid a price to live in an different area, in order to send our children to a school that we felt was the best choice for our children.

I hope that the SL'S PTSA realizes that we all understand that they want to improve their school opportunities, but that the right approach is to improve within. I have seen no evidence that SL receives less funding due to a lower student population of kids.

If anyone has info on how much less SL is receiving as far as money, I want to see it. Please look at other FC public schools with small populations, and see how you stack up.

Please understand that as a Floris parent who has been through all of this before, we are united, and will not be strong armed by a group of parents who made a bad decision on where to live, nor will we be bullied by an elected board of school supervisors who are trying to cover up a multitude of sins when it pertains to spending our tax money, as well as making sure that all schools have a safe and positive education opportunity for our children.

Please vote for the option to pause this boundary study, until we can bring in the resources from within your own community. You have very bright kids in Reston and Herndon that should be feeding into your school, but somehow end up in Langley HS. Does This not upset you? Why is Langley getting an addition, when you parents at South Lakes are clamoring for "advantaged kids" that are right next store? Do you really think that Floris and Fox Mill will ever matriculate into your school population with the poor performance that your school has exhibited thus far? Why would a reasonable person want to pull their children out of 2 of the best schools in the nation, and send them to one of the worst performing, and most dangerous schools in this area?

I understand that you who live in the South Lakes High School district want the best school for your children, but please do not try to solve your problems on the backs of the Fox Mill and Floris Families. We have done enough to try and fix the errors of our elected school board members.

Any reply's are welcome, and my email address in jim_graves@hotmail.com

My cell phone number is 703-989-6810

See you o,

Jim Graves
Sycamore Ridge Home Owner and Parent