>>>Most Reston families in our Pyramid go to South Lakes<<<<

That may be true since so many families move out of Reston as their children approach middle school, and many long before that.

>>>>We have hearty debates at South Lakes over all kinds of interesting issues<<<

Based on what we see here, that's rather hard to believe. South Lakes parents here have done everything possible to shut down anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest. It's hard to believe that there is any tolerance for varying viewpoints at South Lakes. Anyone who doesn't want to hug the globe is sure to be called a racist, a bigot, and any other name that they hope will shut down the discussion.

Diversity of thought seems to the LAST thing that is appreciated by South Lakes parents.

>>>Hey Neen,

Your sixth sense with regard to the facilities staff and which Option they would go with is keen.

Amazing how they picked #3, but with no Madison Island, just like you predicted.<<<<

hahahaha..............Of course you didn't choose #3 because your PTA friends demanded otherwise. Too bad that it won't fill up your school with all those rich people you hate but want to force into your school. They won't go. South Lakes will be the Marshall of the west, perpetually under enrolled. But I'm sure your little IB supporters will cling to their little visions anyway.

Bless their hearts, they try so hard.

Get it right,

You are SOOOOO obvious, regardless of how many times you change your nic.

Clarifier Wrote:
> Bulldog: I have not heard much about what will
> happen to middle schools. ...
(BTW, he told me tonight that he has
> heard Latin is by far the hardest "foreign"
> language exam to take.) ...
> -- MYIB normally starts in 6th grade, but there
> are no "Junior High Schools" in Fairfax, which
> often go from 6th thru 8th grade, or
> alternatively, from 7th thru 9th. So it has
> allowed Fairfax schools to be accredited without
> 6th grade.

------------------
[Clarifier, why do you put parentheses around the word foreign? Is the word foreign no longer PC?]

Since the South Lakes community is so opposed to magnets, why don't you get rid of the GT center? Then you'd have more room at Hughes for students to stay in the same pyramid for middle and high school. This is especially important since Hughes and South Lake DO have the vertically-teamed IB programme.

Students should be allowed to place into and out of IB middle schools just as they do for high school. This policy should be incorporated into the boundary change.

You really do need to take a look at Stuart. You will quickly realize that Glasgow IS a grade 6-8 middles school, as are Poe and Holmes. Those three middle schools AND Whitman all have been authorized to offer IB MYP. [Look at page 31 of the FCPS Handbook for 07-08, that little booklet that is sent to every parent in the fall.]

If you would become a bit more familiar with what is going on inside the beltway and in the Route One Corridor you might see why the rest of the County has little sympathy with your concerns over diversity.

Correct me, please, if I am wrong, but isn't the title of the most recent scenario "ALTERNATE Scenario 3.." I didn't see anything where the county labeled this as the "FINAL Scenario".

????

You are correct. Neen likes to fancy that she KNOWS what's going to happen based on what I can't imagine. Makes for good inflammatory statements, though, which I think is her main objective.

But no one knows which scenario will be recommended, and if that scenario or some variation will finally be implemented by the school board.

Forum Reader,
Actually, I would be for a big reform of th GT program. I think it has become something it was not intended to be, it segregates students in what I think is an unhealthy way, and it is used to gloss over the underlying problems in the schools.

Plus, it must be hugely expensive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2007 07:31AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Ffx Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here are some of the positives and challenges I
> see with the new proposed plan.
>
> 1. Althought the new map was not drawn that way,
> McNair is now an island (they must cross Floris to
> get to Westfields as the open area is Dulles).
>
> 2. South Lakes is at capacity, which does not
> make sense. This honestly appears to be an excuse
> not to include Langley, but will again create
> challenges within a few years. It is important to
> leave some growth room at SL to minimize another
> change in the coming years.
>
> 3. Kudos for leaving Herndon alone.
>
> 4. Whether you agree or not with the importance,
> Oakton is the third ranked school (by one ranking)
> in VA and a top 100 US school. They have no
> current issues (related to the boundary study),
> yet they have the greatest downward impact. On
> top of that, the Oakton area appears to be the
> most densely populated in the study, so bringing
> them so far under capacity is likely to have long
> term negative impact. Like Herndon, they should
> probably be left intact.
>
> 5. The overcrowding at Chantilly is not
> addressed. In fact, they are still over building
> capacity and straining with the "portable"
> classrooms.
>
> 6. The "powers that be" need to put politics
> aside ... Langley is overcrowded, and Madison
> (which is partially included) remains over
> capacity. It is a travesty to see what is being
> proposed and on the page see a school that shares
> a boundary with SL remaining overcrowded.
>
> All, I am not a fan of THIS boundary study ... I
> have little faith that is being done for other
> than political gain. However, there is a need to
> provide incremental value for SL students -
> present and future. So a proper review of
> boundaries is in order.
>
> Can folks comment on the following scenario ...
>
> 1. Leave Herndon and Oakton as they are.
> 2. Shift Floris and McNair to SL.
> 3. Shift the Madison Island plus a small subset
> of other Madison to SL
> 4. Shift an additional part of Poplar Tree from
> Chantilly to Westfields (they are already split)
> 5. If numbers mandate it, add all of Crossfields
> to Oakton
>
> I know this puts another title 1 school in SL, and
> I know that is not ideal ... but I believe this is
> better for everyone. The only reasonable
> alternative to this seems to be to include
> Herndon, but I fail to see how this is for the
> general good. I beleive in this scenario each
> high school has an upside (although there will
> never be a way to make everyone happy).
>
> Just food for thought!


This all makes great sense. The only issue I see is that Poplar Tree was not included in any of the original scenarios and, to my knowledge, hasn't been talked about at all in terms of redistricting.

academy to SL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hmmm07 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > hmmm7,
> > > > I didn't say it eliminates dominoing, but
> it
> > > does
> > > > minimize it over some of the other
> scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > This option weights SE balance higher than
> > > > dominoing, which seems consistent with the
> > > > criteria.
> > > >
> > > > How about if Navy stays at Chantilly, and
> > > Oakton
> > > > takes the Academy? Don't know the numbers,
> > but
> > > > that might work? Since you like academies
> so
> > > > much, and think that an academy would be
> > > "helping"
> > > > South Lakes, (which already has the MMR
> > magnet
> > > and
> > > > highest FRL in the study), maybe Oakton
> could
> > > take
> > > > it?
> > >
> > >
> > > That's fine too. Unlike South Lakes, we at
> > Oakton
> > > would be fine with taking McNair or we would
> be
> > > fine with taking an academy. But that all
> just
> > > seems like of foolish when the people at
> South
> > > Lakes could have done that and not felt the
> > need
> > > to disrupt so many lives.
> >
> > Well,
> > If that's the case, then moving the academy to
> > Oakton might be a reasonable alternative to
> moving
> > Navy kids. Perhaps you can suggest it to FCPS
> and
> > your school board member. This would relieve
> > Chantilly's numbers too. I don't know what you
> > don't understand about the fact that our
> > population cannot easily absorb another program
> or
> > more needy kids and that other schools have the
> > numbers to more easily absorb this.
>
> ......facilitating and implementing a magnet
> school is a multiple year process especially if
> you will program it to be different than a science
> and tech program. However, moving the academy to
> South Lakes makes perfect sense as it would be
> just a physical move. STudents attend from all
> over anyway. That way....all of the other schools
> can be left alone.


Of course it makes sense, but the SLPTSA gang doesn't want it. It won't help their sports teams or help them to offer jewelry making.

To you all:

Hunter Woods is a magnet AND a GT center, right? Then, why don't they feed into Hughes instead of Rachel Carson? Woods is in Reston, not in Herndon, Oak Hill, or Fox Mill....Therefore, if SL wants and NEEDS high achieving kids, then keep HW where it belongs.....in Reston!! so nobody has to worry about "getting" kids from not-too-near neighborhoods.....it makes SENSE!

Redistricting should start at the middle years.....not high school...BTW....Hughes needs to make improvements....that's where the problem resides...it feeds into SL and it brings along more issues....I met a teacher last summer from Hughes, who resigned because no matter what she did...she did not get support from the powers that be ....however, she was singing SL principal its due praises: on how he turned the school around in a short period of time. Just wonder where she ended up, she was firmed in not going back to Hughes. I know this is a different issue, but think about it. Good students start early, not in High School, when it is a bit late to change its bad studying habits and parental support.

Why should kids from low income families be bused all the way from Westfields or Chantilly just because parents right next door dont want their kids going to a school with minorities? Thats the truth of it.

Do I want my kids hanging around low income kids if they are into drugs and trouble and dont want to do well in school or have good social and family values. OF course not.

But, you cant ask the county to bus people across the county to fill in at South Lakes because parents feel this way. Its a PUBLIC SCHOOL... its A FREE EDUCATION (we all pay taxes equally) if you dont like it then send your kids to a private school but dont cry like a baby about the PUBLIC SCHOOLS SYSTEM. The school system needs to have school boundaries set up to place kids in the school that is the CLOSEST!

That is the main factor here! Put you kids in private school if you dont like that the county cant afford to bus low income kids across the county to go to South Lakes just because you dont want you kids to go.

I almost hope this goes to court because the up town families will be struck down in the courts and it will set a benchmark and make USA Today as a racist attempt by Oakton and Madison families.

Good Lcuk!

wonderRC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To you all:
>
> Hunter Woods is a magnet AND a GT center, right?
> Then, why don't they feed into Hughes instead of
> Rachel Carson? Woods is in Reston, not in Herndon,
> Oak Hill, or Fox Mill....Therefore, if SL wants
> and NEEDS high achieving kids, then keep HW where
> it belongs.....in Reston!! so nobody has to worry
> about "getting" kids from not-too-near
> neighborhoods.....it makes SENSE!
>
> Redistricting should start at the middle
> years.....not high school...BTW....Hughes needs to
> make improvements....that's where the problem
> resides...it feeds into SL and it brings along
> more issues....I met a teacher last summer from
> Hughes, who resigned because no matter what she
> did...she did not get support from the powers that
> be ....however, she was singing SL principal its
> due praises: on how he turned the school around in
> a short period of time. Just wonder where she
> ended up, she was firmed in not going back to
> Hughes. I know this is a different issue, but
> think about it. Good students start early, not in
> High School, when it is a bit late to change its
> bad studying habits and parental support.


Hunters Woods does feed into Langston Hughes...but students for whom the school is not their base go to their own base middle schools once they finish at HW.

Way to negatively tag an entire population based on their socioeconomic status. Have you ever met these kids?

I agree that students should be sent to the school that is the closest to their home. Why then are students at Fox Mill and Crossfield going to Oakton? The decisions about sending Navy to Oakton is stupid, they should stay at Chantilly.

This case does not have enough merit to go to court (with the possible exception of Navy?) No one cares about your children being unhappy that they have to switch schools. Sorry.

wonderRC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To you all:
>
> Hunter Woods is a magnet AND a GT center, right?
> Then, why don't they feed into Hughes instead of
> Rachel Carson? Woods is in Reston, not in Herndon,
> Oak Hill, or Fox Mill....Therefore, if SL wants
> and NEEDS high achieving kids, then keep HW where
> it belongs.....in Reston!! so nobody has to worry
> about "getting" kids from not-too-near
> neighborhoods.....it makes SENSE!
>
> Redistricting should start at the middle
> years.....not high school...BTW....Hughes needs to
> make improvements....that's where the problem
> resides...it feeds into SL and it brings along
> more issues....I met a teacher last summer from
> Hughes, who resigned because no matter what she
> did...she did not get support from the powers that
> be ....however, she was singing SL principal its
> due praises: on how he turned the school around in
> a short period of time. Just wonder where she
> ended up, she was firmed in not going back to
> Hughes. I know this is a different issue, but
> think about it. Good students start early, not in
> High School, when it is a bit late to change its
> bad studying habits and parental support.


Thanks for that.

HW is in the SLHS Pyramid, although kids in the GT go to other Middle schools like Carson (I think that depends on where the child lives).

Same thing for Sunrise Valley....kids go to at least three different middle schools, including Hughes, Kilmer and Jackson. It is definitely not ideal, because kids split from friends, but they seem to stay in touch via sports, email, etc.

I agree that being a good student begins in the earlier grades. For what it's worth, we've seen already a strong improvement at Hughes under the new Principal there...the former Principal had a very good CV, but the sense among many staff and parents was that she was looking at the next step in her career (she's now McLean Principal after getting a PhD), rather than being fully engaged at Hughes.

The new Principal, Amy Monticchio, was an assistant Principal at SLHS under Bruce Butler (current SLHS Principal) and has worked to strengthen the ties and coordination with the High School and to emphasize discipline and pride in the school.

My youngest is a 7th grader and loves it, as do other friends whose parents were a bit wary of Hughes, given the "reputation". I hope your teacher friend has found a good place for her skills.

Any public input is a moot point since all these scenarios are rather simple like a toddler as opposed to adult jigsaw puzzle.

I guess board members lay the ground rules to staff for who is even in scenarios, so the best anyone can do is lobby for an area comprised of portions of Fox Mill/ Floris to be at Fox Mill with a very comfortable capacity margin, no trailers, all Japanese at Fox mill and Hughes [out of Carson] and later start times at Hughes and South Lakes for 2008-09 school year.

Gibson has a lot of focus school stuff so if any of that survives the budget crisis, lobby to get it from another school. Strauss has the only 2 french immersion so maybe get the one at herndon moved to a South Lkaes pyramid school- makes a nice fit with IB since the other french goes to AP at Mclean.

The Navy portion is something for Sully to duke it out with the Providence District [now might have 3 on the board - Phil NE, Hone, Raney]. Sully will decide where Oak Hill goes - Westfield or Chantilly. It seems Floris and McNair are afterthoughts and continue to be the victims of a decade of poor planning.

Two years of inconveneient middle school bussing is nothing compared to 4 years of high school with the increased time students spend at school. However when sites are co-located like Hughes and South Lakes, it is irresponsible to not analyze both at the same time. A smaller more careful study would have been appropriate.

Some elected board member has to take ownership of Floris/part of Fox Mill/McNair/Franklin Farm/Crossfield/Oak hill -- they've all dropped the ball in that area. A lot of money has been spent in the wrong places. Stuff that could have been at Herndon wasn't since it has Gibson's constituents who won't go to South Lakes, Sully won't move areas near Westfield out of Chantilly, etc. Perhaps Hone and Raney will look at this -- Bradsher is another one.

Somebody has to finally give those people representation.

Like all Gibson's reston schools the smaller Foxmill should get some of his wide range of special programs. Aldin doesn't have them but it has had the luxury of never being overcrowded, nice area, great building. All amenities of Reston.

thatslife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>No
> one cares about your children being unhappy that
> they have to switch schools. Sorry.

This is totally untrue. The majority of the community DOES care about this. Why do you think there is a StopRD.org petition with over 2000 signatures? Why are poeple showing up at these town hall meetings?

I would love to see the issue of whether redistricting occurs or not settled by a community vote.

>I would love to see the issue of whether redistricting occurs or not settled by a community vote.<

And we would have the tyranny of the majority, of course. "Do nothing" is always the majority's choice.

Remember, our Founding Fathers were not concerned about the majority. They were primarily concerned about protecting the interests of the minority. And in this redistricting situation, South Lakes is the minority voice among all the high schools and their pyramids -- and has been for years. There is now an opportunity to help correct historical wrongs.

taxpayer wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Like all Gibson's reston schools the smaller
> Foxmill should get some of his wide range of
> special programs. Aldin doesn't have them but it
> has had the luxury of never being overcrowded,
> nice area, great building. All amenities of
> Reston.

The reason there are special programs in some of Reston's schools is because whenever there was talk of redistricting, there was such a hue and cry from surrounding neighborhoods that the SB did the cowardly thing and added a magnet to beef up enrollment. Just ask your Crossfield friends why the GT center moved from Crossfield to Hunters Woods. They were overcrowded, HW was undercrowded. The SB wanted to move part of Crossfield to HW. They had a temper tantrum and voila the GT center was moved to alleviate crowding at Crossfield, and HW got a band-aid magnet that pulls kids from all over who then leave after 6th grade to return to their base middle schools. HW and Reston, would have been better off with larger portion of Crossfield.

thatslife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wonderRC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To you all:
> >
> > Hunter Woods is a magnet AND a GT center, right?
>
> > Then, why don't they feed into Hughes instead
> of
> > Rachel Carson? Woods is in Reston, not in
> Herndon,
> > Oak Hill, or Fox Mill....Therefore, if SL wants
> > and NEEDS high achieving kids, then keep HW
> where
> > it belongs.....in Reston!! so nobody has to
> worry
> > about "getting" kids from not-too-near
> > neighborhoods.....it makes SENSE!
> >
> > Redistricting should start at the middle
> > years.....not high school...BTW....Hughes needs
> to
> > make improvements....that's where the problem
> > resides...it feeds into SL and it brings along
> > more issues....I met a teacher last summer from
> > Hughes, who resigned because no matter what she
> > did...she did not get support from the powers
> that
> > be ....however, she was singing SL principal
> its
> > due praises: on how he turned the school around
> in
> > a short period of time. Just wonder where she
> > ended up, she was firmed in not going back to
> > Hughes. I know this is a different issue, but
> > think about it. Good students start early, not
> in
> > High School, when it is a bit late to change
> its
> > bad studying habits and parental support.
>
>
> Hunters Woods does feed into Langston Hughes...but
> students for whom the school is not their base go
> to their own base middle schools once they finish
> at HW.
>
> Way to negatively tag an entire population based
> on their socioeconomic status. Have you ever met
> these kids?
>
> I agree that students should be sent to the school
> that is the closest to their home. Why then are
> students at Fox Mill and Crossfield going to
> Oakton? The decisions about sending Navy to Oakton
> is stupid, they should stay at Chantilly.
>
> This case does not have enough merit to go to
> court (with the possible exception of Navy?) No
> one cares about your children being unhappy that
> they have to switch schools. Sorry.

Re: Why Crossfield and/or Fox Mill go to Oakton. PLEASE, people, take the time to look at a large map. If you look at a tiny map you will see that Crossfield and Fox Mill are closer to South Lakes than Oakton. But if you take the few moments it takes to actually educate yourself on the matter and look at a larger map, you will very clearly see why they are at Oakton. AGain, unless all of Madison is included in the study, you can't just pull people out of Oakton to place into South Lakes because they are closer. You have to find kids to put into Oakton. If you want to add Flint Hill or Oakton Elementary to the mix to take kids from Madison and move them into Oakton, then and only then can you consider pulling Crossfield and/or Fox Mill without doing injustice to Oakton. Again, take a few minutes to look at a map...

Has Dr. Cannaday made any statements regarding this mess?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I would love to see the issue of whether
> redistricting occurs or not settled by a community
> vote.<
>
> And we would have the tyranny of the majority, of
> course. "Do nothing" is always the majority's
> choice.
>
> Remember, our Founding Fathers were not concerned
> about the majority. They were primarily concerned
> about protecting the interests of the minority.
> And in this redistricting situation, South Lakes
> is the minority voice among all the high schools
> and their pyramids -- and has been for years.
> There is now an opportunity to help correct
> historical wrongs.

And what is the historical wrong? It seems some Reston area schools have more special funding not based on LEP or FPRM programs instituted by Domenech than any other segment of the county. I don't think anyone liked the architecture of South Lakes but that has been rectifed as best as possible along gutting the auditorium and a new 2 story art wing. Aldrin and Armstrong are untouchable and protected by Gibson and Strauss. However...

Some elementary boundary changes would have solved this problem long ago - more into Aldrin and move it to South Lakes and less special programs opening up base school spots at Reston schools. Floris and Fox mill both had Japanese Immersion - leaving that program unavailable for huge geographic segments of this county. That program should have been located at an undercapacity South Lakes feeder [pick one of several] not overcapacity schools. One of them should have been on the other side of the county.

FCPS didn't make those changes so South Lakes was under enrolled.

Reston has 3 real elementary Gt centers plus one at Hughes. many areas have ones at their local school for elementary and with a severe budget crunch they could cut the busses for students who choose to go to a real one like the one at Hunters Woods.

IB gets extra funding beyond what is at any AP school including extra staff. The people who have been lacking in a real voice are those who I mentionned in a prior post. They certainly have a larger reason for complaint than the areas that won't go to Lake Braddock from Silverbrook and want a new middle school. Funny how FCPS transports past/arund Dulles Airport but won't make changes to Mount vernon - at least Ft belvoir has residences while nobody lives on a runway.

More kids can't be moved into Hunters Woods base school since it is overstuffed with special programs.

Floris Parent - intellectual capacity? Really? Posters like Exodus think I am a blowhard. I am really just an ex-jock from a single mother home - and honestly, despite the so-called high falutin schools I managed to attend (ahh, the wholly undeserved blessings of those can play sports), I think that a focus on competence and common sense means more than intellectual capacity. I have met a few people that are truly, truly brilliant - and it is very humbling. (Ironically, one of them lives in a modest neighborhood in Herndon and plies his Harvard, Princeton and Oxford physics degrees in modest anonymity, and quite happily sends his well adjusted kids to Herndon High - I recommend him highly if you need instantaneous feedback on gambling odds while in Vegas). And while there are very educated people on this board, it is a bit reckless to infer high level intellectual capacity to all but a very select few. And clearly not me.

In any event, I don't think anyone can speculate on FCPS' assumptions behind the so-called transfer rate from any one school to another without really knowing the actual data or assumptions they are in fact using. I agree that a 1:1 take-up is likely unrealistic, but let's be fair to SLHS, as people in general do not take well to a change in status-quo and some will refrain from sending their children there due to the mere circumstance of change itself. I think the SL supporters don't help their cause by not recognizing this - a certain amount of transfer loss occurs with any institutional change - one only need to look at the transformational losses in mergers and acquisitions - and I am not talking about the losses incident to "slash and burn" m & a transactions but rather those that create synergies and should, if anything, cause people to work through transformational issues and stay. Some don't because they don't like change. This is the way it is.

The best way to support a good take up rate to is for the school to be responsive and offer competitive solutions to the new population. This point of view thus makes it less of an intellectual exercise and more of a market based one, although in terms of resource utilization selection of some reasonable model would make sense. And SLHS supporters are likely correct in pointing out that transfer rate decisions should not be borne from unwarranted fears - but rather from facts explained within a reasonably fair and balanced context. They themselves bear some of that informational burden - some here meet it fairly - some don't - likely out of too much self-interest.

The problem with these Internet postings is that the "truth" is in most cases is almost never as extreme as the arguments purport it to be (I am guilty of this myself). By way of example, SLHS is not nearly as "bad" or riven with gang issues as some would indicate, but on the other hand they likely have a slightly greater burden to bear in this regard than other schools and thus those that support the school should not deny the point entirely - and accordingly they should be factual and open as to what they are doing to address the challenge (actually, I think the school is doing a very good job at discipline and control but SLHS supporters are pained to mention even the existence of a slightly greater problem). And the IB vs. AP is yet another - they are both excellent programs - and can be challenging with a significant amount of congruency - but in an area with choosy, reasonably well-off consumers, one might be a better marketplace fit for the bulk of those customers. But if I were a student going to South Lakes, I would be motivated to make the most of either program that was offered to me, and would push the school if I really needed something to meet my goals (an AP math course, for example). In any event, it is likely a good idea to moderate both the extreme nature of some of these postings (no surprise, most posting here are pretty capable and smart) as well as their sometimes unwarranted binary nature.

This all having been said, I don't it is prudent to dismiss probative postings just because of their abrasive nature. People often communicate with plenty of rough edges, and a faux sense of outrage over that doesn't further understanding or critical thinking. Invocation of a some "ism" or another is often a substitute for engaging in discussion. Cheers.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is now an opportunity to help correct
> historical wrongs.

Using this logic we should give North America back to to the American Indians. I believe trying to correct historical wrongs opens up too many cans of worms and is too difficult to sort out (see: Middle East). I think a better course of action is to start with the status quo as a basis and make decisions on what is best going forward.

It may very well be that SL needs additional students and that redistricting must occur. However, I will not be convinced of that until a reasonable process where community input is obtained and all possible alternatives have been explored.

This process sucks, can anyone here deny that? Why should we accept any recommendations made under these circumstances?

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree that being a good student begins in the
> earlier grades. For what it's worth, we've seen
> already a strong improvement at Hughes under the
> new Principal there...the former Principal had a
> very good CV, but the sense among many staff and
> parents was that she was looking at the next step
> in her career (she's now McLean Principal after
> getting a PhD), rather than being fully engaged at
> Hughes.

Ms. Jackson was a great principal, certainly better than Brucy. She would have been great for SL. McLean is very lucky to have her.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader,
> Actually, I would be for a big reform of th GT
> program. I think it has become something it was
> not intended to be, it segregates students in what
> I think is an unhealthy way, and it is used to
> gloss over the underlying problems in the
> schools.
>
> Plus, it must be hugely expensive.

In what YOU think is an unhealthy way. I'm sure those children are deliriously happy to not have to sit in GenPop.

Children SHOULD be segregated based on ability. If you think it's benefiting the gifted children to sit in a class with remedial children, you are sadly mistaken. Children need to be in classes with their intellectual equals. If someone is a literary genius, they should not have to sit next to someone who reads at an elementary level, or doesn't know proper placement of an apostrophe. What is a gifted child going to gain out of a class where the teacher has to explain proper usage of apsotrophes, and what is the remedial child going to learn if the teacher does NOT explain proper usage of apostrophes?

I do, however, believe that there should be more opportunity for children to test into the GT program, because children who are new to the area are often excluded because they missed the golden testing cutoff date.

Clarifier, you make me want to vomit.

That being said, don't count on Fox Mill students going to SL. We already have plenty of carpools taking us back to OHS. And some of us are moving out. And some of us are going private. You get the gist of it. I don't know one single neighbor of mine that will let their kids go to SLHS, no way. The school board is going to send buses thru Fox Mill on their way to SL and wonder why they're all empty.

That's what happens when you try to bus kids - nobody shows up. We know better, look at these SL parents - gimme gimme gimme! I want this, I want that, I want your kids!!!! Again, there is no way I'd let me kids step foot in there.

toobadsl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier, you make me want to vomit.
>
> That being said, don't count on Fox Mill students
> going to SL. We already have plenty of carpools
> taking us back to OHS. And some of us are moving
> out. And some of us are going private. You get
> the gist of it. I don't know one single neighbor
> of mine that will let their kids go to SLHS, no
> way. The school board is going to send buses thru
> Fox Mill on their way to SL and wonder why they're
> all empty.
>
> That's what happens when you try to bus kids -
> nobody shows up. We know better, look at these SL
> parents - gimme gimme gimme! I want this, I want
> that, I want your kids!!!! Again, there is no way
> I'd let me kids step foot in there.


After everyone jumped overboard, there was some embarrassment that the cause of the "fire" was a steward who had lit a match in an effort to mask his flatulence.

toobadsl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier, you make me want to vomit.
>
> That being said, don't count on Fox Mill students
> going to SL. We already have plenty of carpools
> taking us back to OHS. And some of us are moving
> out. And some of us are going private. You get
> the gist of it. I don't know one single neighbor
> of mine that will let their kids go to SLHS, no
> way. The school board is going to send buses thru
> Fox Mill on their way to SL and wonder why they're
> all empty.
>
> That's what happens when you try to bus kids -
> nobody shows up. We know better, look at these SL
> parents - gimme gimme gimme! I want this, I want
> that, I want your kids!!!! Again, there is no way
> I'd let me kids step foot in there.


Bus kids? You're being bused to Oakton right now! It really is your own loss. Have fun paying that tuition bill and new mortgage payments when younger members of your neighborhood get involved in the South Lakes community and realize it is not what you make it out to be.

Do you know what "busing" means? Are you a total idiot? Guess so.

LeaveMyKidAlone Wrote:
The small part may have given you and
> your cronies on the board the idea that we would
> be easy targets. Dont under estimate the affluent
> piece.


you seem to assume that this is all a diabolical plan cooked up to inconvenience you

Msg to all my Fox Mill Friends - current enrollment projections for Oakton show plenty of room for pupil placement. Get into the AP program or find other programs that are not offered at South Lakes.

This really amazes me. We all know that many of the Oakton and James Madison parents are racists. But, whats amazing is that they actually think that the public school system should support their ractist opinions and ways.

krugerhill, South Lakes has more racists than any of the other schools. The blacks hang together, the latinos hang together and the whites are afraid of both groups. And you want to talk about racists? Your school is trying to get WHITE kids to make your school look better. You retard, that is racism, idiot.

krugerhill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This really amazes me. We all know that many of
> the Oakton and James Madison parents are racists.
> But, whats amazing is that they actually think
> that the public school system should support their
> ractist opinions and ways.


Oh please. This whole racism thing is really desperate.

smuckers.. Yes, this a diabolical plan which has been cooked up by a group of crooks.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Msg to all my Fox Mill Friends - current
> enrollment projections for Oakton show plenty of
> room for pupil placement. Get into the AP program
> or find other programs that are not offered at
> South Lakes.


You can only pupil place into AP for the immediate year and there really aren't any options along those lines for freshmen. However, you can take American Sign Language at Oakton. There are other programs as well, but I'm not sure how many of those would apply to freshmen. At any rate, I would advise anyone who might need to pupil place to go ahead and start the paperwork, or at least look into it because there are going to be so many requests on Banbury's desk that it will take forever to get them processed.

OAKTON

Grade 2004-2005 2005-2006
09 615 583
10 601 623
11 588 600
12 552 545

Offense Category 2004-2005 2005-2006
Related to Weapons 1 1
Against Student 9 16
Against Staff 0 2
Against Person 21 27
Related to ATOD 28 26
Related to Property 12 23
Related to Behavior 51 71
Other 33 32


SOUTH LAKES
Grade 2004-2005 2005-2006
09 427 404
10 408 387
11 427 386
12 340 369

Offense Category 2004-2005 2005-2006
Related to Weapons 5 11
Against Student 21 13
Against Staff 6 6
Against Person 30 55
Related to ATOD 37 38
Related to Property 13 20
Related to Behavior 82 24
Other 101 172

OAKTON
2004-2005 2,356 students and 155 offences. 6.57%
2005-2006 2,351 students and 198 offences. 8.42%

SOUTH LAKES
2004-2005 1,602 students and 295 offences. 18.41%
2005-2006 1,646 students and 339 offences. 21.92%

The numbers don't lie. Why in the world would we want to place our children there?

I think the SL folks on here just don't realize how bad it is because they have not experienced a truly great school.

To Forrest Gump it up, South Lakes is like a box of chocolates -- a Whitman's sampler. If you have only had a Whitman's sampler, you think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if you are used to Jaques Torres, a Whitman's sampler is just not going to cut it.

toobadsl......This is busing, you retard. White kids are being bused into a school only to prop up a screwed up school with lots of minorities from government projects. Are you a total idiot? Guesss so.

O-F-F-E-N-S-E-S

Geez, Louise. See what happens when one copies cells in Excel?

Pupil placement - take the pre AP classes (honors etc), there are Freshman at Oakton today who are supposed to be going to South Lakes but are following an AP path. I know it can be done and is being done. We also have a people placing in for Sign Language and such.

Start looking into it today.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OAKTON
>
> Grade 2004-2005 2005-2006
> 09 615 583
> 10 601 623
> 11 588 600
> 12 552 545
>
> Offense Category 2004-2005 2005-2006
> Related to Weapons 1 1
> Against Student 9 16
> Against Staff 0 2
> Against Person 21 27
> Related to ATOD 28 26
> Related to Property 12 23
> Related to Behavior 51 71
> Other 33 32
>
>
> SOUTH LAKES
> Grade 2004-2005 2005-2006
> 09 427 404
> 10 408 387
> 11 427 386
> 12 340 369
>
> Offense Category 2004-2005 2005-2006
> Related to Weapons 5 11
> Against Student 21 13
> Against Staff 6 6
> Against Person 30 55
> Related to ATOD 37 38
> Related to Property 13 20
> Related to Behavior 82 24
> Other 101 172
>
> OAKTON
> 2004-2005 2,356 students and 155 offences. 6.57%
> 2005-2006 2,351 students and 198 offences. 8.42%
>
> SOUTH LAKES
> 2004-2005 1,602 students and 295 offences.
> 18.41%
> 2005-2006 1,646 students and 339 offences.
> 21.92%
>
> The numbers don't lie. Why in the world would we
> want to place our children there?
>
> I think the SL folks on here just don't realize
> how bad it is because they have not experienced a
> truly great school.
>
> To Forrest Gump it up, South Lakes is like a box
> of chocolates -- a Whitman's sampler. If you have
> only had a Whitman's sampler, you think it's the
> greatest thing since sliced bread, but if you are
> used to Jaques Torres, a Whitman's sampler is just
> not going to cut it.

Thesse numbers do not lie. Even if your kid hadn't already begun at Oakton or wasn't slated to go there, these numbers alone would keep me from looking at a house in the SL district compared to the Oakton district. I'm trying to figure out how adding Fox Mill and/or part of Floris will lower those weapons numbers at South Lakes. Like someone posted earlier....all adding the non"needy" kids will do is dilute the stats....it won't make anything better at South Lakes.

Make that toobad who is the idiot.

I am sick of the South Lakes racists. You can't have our white kids. Go find some other color for your STUPID rainbow.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OAKTON
> >
> > Grade 2004-2005 2005-2006
> > 09 615 583
> > 10 601 623
> > 11 588 600
> > 12 552 545
> >
> > Offense Category 2004-2005 2005-2006
> > Related to Weapons 1 1
> > Against Student 9 16
> > Against Staff 0 2
> > Against Person 21 27
> > Related to ATOD 28 26
> > Related to Property 12 23
> > Related to Behavior 51 71
> > Other 33 32
> >
> >
> > SOUTH LAKES
> > Grade 2004-2005 2005-2006
> > 09 427 404
> > 10 408 387
> > 11 427 386
> > 12 340 369
> >
> > Offense Category 2004-2005 2005-2006
> > Related to Weapons 5 11
> > Against Student 21 13
> > Against Staff 6 6
> > Against Person 30 55
> > Related to ATOD 37 38
> > Related to Property 13 20
> > Related to Behavior 82 24
> > Other 101 172
> >
> > OAKTON
> > 2004-2005 2,356 students and 155 offences.
> 6.57%
> > 2005-2006 2,351 students and 198 offences.
> 8.42%
> >
> > SOUTH LAKES
> > 2004-2005 1,602 students and 295 offences.
> > 18.41%
> > 2005-2006 1,646 students and 339 offences.
> > 21.92%
> >
> > The numbers don't lie. Why in the world would
> we
> > want to place our children there?
> >
> > I think the SL folks on here just don't realize
> > how bad it is because they have not experienced
> a
> > truly great school.
> >
> > To Forrest Gump it up, South Lakes is like a
> box
> > of chocolates -- a Whitman's sampler. If you
> have
> > only had a Whitman's sampler, you think it's
> the
> > greatest thing since sliced bread, but if you
> are
> > used to Jaques Torres, a Whitman's sampler is
> just
> > not going to cut it.
>
> Thesse numbers do not lie. Even if your kid
> hadn't already begun at Oakton or wasn't slated to
> go there, these numbers alone would keep me from
> looking at a house in the SL district compared to
> the Oakton district. I'm trying to figure out how
> adding Fox Mill and/or part of Floris will lower
> those weapons numbers at South Lakes. Like
> someone posted earlier....all adding the
> non"needy" kids will do is dilute the stats....it
> won't make anything better at South Lakes.


EXACTLY! They're hiding the festering wound with a Band-Aid rather than treating the infection. The wound will become septic and will infect the entire (student) body.

And before anyone points out the mathematical error, the student body at South Lakes for 2005-2006 was 1,546, not 1,646 as I typed. The percentage is correct.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Msg to all my Fox Mill Friends - current
> enrollment projections for Oakton show plenty of
> room for pupil placement. Get into the AP program
> or find other programs that are not offered at
> South Lakes.

And the folks in the picked-on pocket of Floris will surely do the same. If not placed at Westfield, than Oakton or Herndon or Chantilly or anywhere other than South Lakes. South Lakes, your prime picks have been rubbed the wrong way by your arrogant ways.

Let's all remember this is not a done deal. You must complain to the county about the following...

Under Option 5
- South Lakes is overcrowded and there is no buffer. The capacity for SL is 2050 not 2100. It was reduced 50 seats because of the remodel job. This is acording to their own documents. With all the new development planned for the area, this is not a good idea. There must be a buffer.

- McNair is now an attendance island. While it may not look that way on the map, the area in between contains NO HOMES and is zoned for industrial use. McNair is forced to drive 10+ miles to Westfield when both South Lakes and Herndon are closer.

- McNair / Coppermine is expecting large growth. This is not addressed at all.

Furries will turn into a blizzard if this isn't stopped.

With so many (as threatened by some) leaving South Lakes to pupil-place and go to private school, we'll have a wonderful buffer. ;-) But we don't need it. The school has over-projected growth in the area for the last five years. (No, not white flight to avoid South Lakes, as fumers here like to fume. But aging-in-place and not being able to afford to move up to the pricey Reston homes when families grow out of townhomes. And families buying condos and apartments and when they have kids, moving where there is SFH housing available. Which it isn't in Reston because it's so popular. And GT kids returning to their base schools.)

Because McNair is untouched, there is flexibility to consider where those kids should go after Coppermine is built.

The SE part of Floris isn't an "island" or peninsula because to get out of the neighborhoods, you have to drive north, west, or south, and hit a feeder road to get to Westfield. This would be true no matter what school it went to. Same is true of McNair.

Bottom line is Option 5 is the least disruptive and most flexible for the future. Yes, it disrupts a couple of schools, but not the numbers of schools all the other options disrupted.

Thankfully, there appear to be only a handful of folks from Floris/Fox Mill posting here who are virulent opponents to redistricting, so I'm sure Oakton and Chantilly and Westfield will be able to accomodate you. As for any others, most of them are pretty reasonable and will give South Lakes a chance. They will be very pleasantly surprised.

Clarifier Wrote:
>
> Thankfully, there appear to be only a handful of
> folks from Floris/Fox Mill posting here.
> Many who are not are virulent opponents to redistricting.

the sentence(s) is now more appropriately written.

Families with children do not buy homes in the Reston area because the schools are dreadful. That's why enrollment is down. Don't kid yourself. This has been going on for a long time.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Families with children do not buy homes in the
> Reston area because the schools are dreadful.
> That's why enrollment is down. Don't kid yourself.
> This has been going on for a long time.


In the Post today, I think I counted 18 FCPS high schools that scored higher than South Lakes. JEB Stuart (whose FRL is much higher and whose diversity is much greater), Falls Church and even Wakefield all outscored South Lakes. So the argument that SL is just chock full of diversity and free lunches and that is the whole problem really doesn't hold much water when you take the time to look into other FCPS high schools. Who, in their right mind, would not look at something like this list when deciding where to buy a house????

I am looking for some consensus. No name-calling, no insults, just a solution that satisfies most concerns.

It appears most people agree that the current boundaries are messed up and that as a general rule students should attend the school closest to their homes (by transit time, not as the crow flies).

I think everyone agrees that capacity is a major factor. About 95% full seems to be the ideal, but of course how "full" a school is from year to year varies for a lot of reasons. And because schools are not always located where the students are, the closest school will not always have enough capacity.

Middle schools have only recently come into the discussion, but I think most of us agree that high school and middle school boundaries should be aligned.

I am not sold on the concept that the roughly 50,000 FCPS high school students should all sorted into high schools of about 2,000, but if that is the consensus of the parents, then let’s push for it county-wide, populating high schools with target populations of 1,700 to 2,300.

Can we end the band-aid approaches to boundaries and address these basic concerns?

WILL THE SOUTH LAKES COMMUNITY AGREE TO DELAY THIS WHOLE ISSUE FOR A YEAR AND SUPPORT A COUNTY-WIDE HIGH AND MIDDLE SCHOOL REDISTRICTING EFFORT?

If a county-wide redistricting is too big a project too tackle, group the pyramids into thirds and do one-third a year.

The Northern Third: Chantilly, Herndon, Langley, Madison, Marshall, Oakton, South Lakes, and Westfield. (In other words, add Madison and Langley to the discussion, as many posters have suggested.)

The Central Third: Annandale, Centreville, Fairfax, Falls Church, McLean, Robinson, Stuart, and Woodson.

The Southeast: Edison, Hayfield, Lake Braddock, Lee, Mount Vernon, South County, West Potomac, and West Springfield.

- Each of these "thirds" has a high school capacity between 17,000 and 18,650.
- Each is currently at between 92% and 97% capacity.
- Each has a school or two with a lot of excess capacity (South Lakes, Mt Vernon, Hayfield, and Falls Church).
- Each third has two or three IB schools.
- Each third has one or more “mega buildings” that are or can be converted to secondary schools (one-third middle school and two-thirds high school)
--- North: Chantilly has space for 2,625 students and Westfield 3,100.
--- Central: Robinson 4,100.
--- Southeast: Hayfield 3,225; Lake Braddock 4,075; Mt Vernon 2,550; South County 2,700.

What is NOT balanced as I have tentatively grouped the schools is “diversity.” If you want a more “equitable” split by FRM and ESOL, the lines for these thirds might be shifted to diagonals. The North would add Falls Church and Stuart and in exchange the Central third would add either Westfield or Chantilly and most of the students south of 50 (but not north of 50).

Jefferson, of course, is a special case and not part of the discussion.

Fairfax HS also is a unique case because Fairfax City is a separate legal entity. All public middle and high school students who live inside the city limits must attend Lanier/Fairfax. They may not be redistricted out in any scenario, but other "County" students may be (and are) included within the Lanier/Fairfax boundaries. [Students who live across the street from Woodson to the north and west are thus bused to Fairfax.]

Comments, questions, concerns? Is this something we can all get behind? Do the whole thing over?

Dang. You guys really need to go back to remedial math. To quote from the article today:

"Any school with a rating of 1.000 or above is in the top 5 percent of all US high schools..."

Therea re more than 27,000 public high schools in the country. By this measure, South Lakes is in the top 3%.

And

"The rating is not a measure of the overall quality of the school but illuminates one factor that many educators consider important and that can favorably affect other factors."

South Lakes is #63 in the area. You are kvetching over tiny percentage points.

Imagine this: Your neighbor sells his house for $20K less than what you bought your house for. You bought your house for $850K. Your house is now a really, really bad house because the market value has dropped? HIS house is a really, really bad house because it sold for a bit less than you bought yours for?

Get some perspective, folks!

>WILL THE SOUTH LAKES COMMUNITY AGREE TO DELAY THIS WHOLE ISSUE FOR A YEAR AND SUPPORT A COUNTY-WIDE HIGH AND MIDDLE SCHOOL REDISTRICTING EFFORT?<

NO! Because every time there has been any move to delay, nothing happens or things get worse, and South Lakes gets the shaft.

We have an opportunity NOW and a need NOW and NOW is when we need to do this.

I can't speak for others, but I would support a county-wide stude AFTER this goes through, given that it appears so many other areas are being considered for shifts in the future.

This isn't name-calling or insults here. This is a serious concern that South Lakes has, born of a history of prejudice against it.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Therea re more than 27,000 public high schools in
> the country. By this measure, South Lakes is in
> the top 3%.


Since SL is in the top 3% IN THE NATION what is the urgent problem that needs fixing?

I am in full agreement with Forum Reader on putting a stay on this project and start over with each school reevaluated.

I have tried to keep up with most of the posts, but it is impossible to read all. Given that, has there been a discussion about the results of The McKibben Demographic Report. I have read the comments from the Enrollment Projection Task Force dated Jan 2007.

Has FCPS implemented any of the recommendations from the study before doing this latest redistrict? The report clearly states that FCPS is not qualified to do the work themselves based on their staff. Do we have professionals working on this? I think it is money well spent if it can save taxpayers from building new schools (like the SOCO middle school).

I would like to know if anyone else feels that this is a matter best handled by the pros.

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clarifier Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Therea re more than 27,000 public high schools
> in
> > the country. By this measure, South Lakes is in
> > the top 3%.
>
>
> Since SL is in the top 3% IN THE NATION what is
> the urgent problem that needs fixing?



Haha! BINGO!!! Either you are broken and need fixing or you aren't! You apparently get to have it both ways at South Lakes. You are broken when you need the less "needy" kids and you aren't broken when someone points out your place among the other high schools in the county. How convenient!

Since ALL the schools are in the top 3% in the NATION, what's the problem with having a few students come to South Lakes so it can offer the same kinds of classes they have?

And you obviously didn't get the real message -- these numbers are all pretty bogus. They don't measure the total quality of a school. Clearly, I brought this up for those anal people who adore numbers and nothing but numbers.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am looking for some consensus. No name-calling,
> no insults, just a solution that satisfies most
> concerns.
>
> It appears most people agree that the current
> boundaries are messed up
>

There are a lot of good thoughts here. But, this part I do not think most people would agree with.


> I think everyone agrees that capacity is a major
> factor. About 95% full seems to be the ideal, but
> of course how "full" a school is from year to year
> varies for a lot of reasons. And because schools
> are not always located where the students are, the
> closest school will not always have enough
> capacity.

Check.
>
> Middle schools have only recently come into the
> discussion, but I think most of us agree that high
> school and middle school boundaries should be
> aligned.
>

Check.

> I am not sold on the concept that the roughly
> 50,000 FCPS high school students should all sorted
> into high schools of about 2,000, but if that is
> the consensus of the parents, then let’s push for
> it county-wide, populating high schools with
> target populations of 1,700 to 2,300.
>

This is not the consensus of parents, but is a number arbitrarily determined by the school board for the purposes of supporting their decision to redistrict.

Personally I think it is good to have small schools and large schools so that people can decide which they prefer, as there are advantages to both.



> Can we end the band-aid approaches to boundaries
> and address these basic concerns?

That would be great.


>
> WILL THE SOUTH LAKES COMMUNITY AGREE TO DELAY THIS
> WHOLE ISSUE FOR A YEAR AND SUPPORT A COUNTY-WIDE
> HIGH AND MIDDLE SCHOOL REDISTRICTING EFFORT?
>
> If a county-wide redistricting is too big a
> project too tackle, group the pyramids into thirds
> and do one-third a year.
>
> The Northern Third: Chantilly, Herndon, Langley,
> Madison, Marshall, Oakton, South Lakes, and
> Westfield. (In other words, add Madison and
> Langley to the discussion, as many posters have
> suggested.)
>
> The Central Third: Annandale, Centreville,
> Fairfax, Falls Church, McLean, Robinson, Stuart,
> and Woodson.
>
> The Southeast: Edison, Hayfield, Lake Braddock,
> Lee, Mount Vernon, South County, West Potomac, and
> West Springfield.
>
> - Each of these "thirds" has a high school
> capacity between 17,000 and 18,650.
> - Each is currently at between 92% and 97%
> capacity.
> - Each has a school or two with a lot of excess
> capacity (South Lakes, Mt Vernon, Hayfield, and
> Falls Church).
> - Each third has two or three IB schools.
> - Each third has one or more “mega buildings”
> that are or can be converted to secondary schools
> (one-third middle school and two-thirds high
> school)
> --- North: Chantilly has space for 2,625 students
> and Westfield 3,100.
> --- Central: Robinson 4,100.
> --- Southeast: Hayfield 3,225; Lake Braddock
> 4,075; Mt Vernon 2,550; South County 2,700.
>
> What is NOT balanced as I have tentatively grouped
> the schools is “diversity.” If you want a more
> “equitable” split by FRM and ESOL, the lines for
> these thirds might be shifted to diagonals. The
> North would add Falls Church and Stuart and in
> exchange the Central third would add either
> Westfield or Chantilly and most of the students
> south of 50 (but not north of 50).
>

Lets take diversity out of the discussion. This is an area where no one will agree and people will debate forever.


> Jefferson, of course, is a special case and not
> part of the discussion.
>
> Fairfax HS also is a unique case because Fairfax
> City is a separate legal entity. All public middle
> and high school students who live inside the city
> limits must attend Lanier/Fairfax. They may not be
> redistricted out in any scenario, but other
> "County" students may be (and are) included within
> the Lanier/Fairfax boundaries.
>
> Comments, questions, concerns? Is this something
> we can all get behind? Do the whole thing over?

Do the whole thing over, yes. But, need must be documented first and secondly, all other options to solving the identified need must be reviewed with public participation and input. Third, stricter guidelines must be in place to restrict, monitor, and guide any future redistricting efforts.

Lee Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am in full agreement with Forum Reader on
> putting a stay on this project and start over with
> each school reevaluated.
>
> I have tried to keep up with most of the posts,
> but it is impossible to read all. Given that, has
> there been a discussion about the results of The
> McKibben Demographic Report. I have read the
> comments from the Enrollment Projection Task Force
> dated Jan 2007.
>
> Has FCPS implemented any of the recommendations
> from the study before doing this latest
> redistrict? The report clearly states that FCPS is
> not qualified to do the work themselves based on
> their staff. Do we have professionals working on
> this? I think it is money well spent if it can
> save taxpayers from building new schools (like the
> SOCO middle school).
>
> I would like to know if anyone else feels that
> this is a matter best handled by the pros.

--------------
I would have the pros draft the proposals, but then let the community make input that is actually incorporated. The pros just cannot know, much less factor in, all the details. Example: Some roads ARE more dangerous, and even though they "look shorter" on paper we don't want more buses and high school drivers on them.

For the record, I do not agree that these numbers are a measure of a school's quality. South Lakes IS a high-quality school on many fronts, but it does not have the same opportunity for its students to take higher level or some standard courses and many kinds of electives that neighboring schools do, because it does not have the core set of kids it needs to offer them.

Furthermore, for those numbers people out there, it will be 700 under-enrolled next year without redistricting, remember? Underused resources? =$s? =numbers? Buses taking kids 10+ miles when they could be going 3? How much does it cost to fill up a bus tank and maintain a bus when it goes 14 extra miles per day, 180 days per year?

Clarifier - with all due respect ...

Being in the top 3 % or 5% or whatever the number is is something to be proud of. And yes, South Lakes is a great school by National Standards.

But as an intelligent person I cannot believe that you believe it is comparable to the top 1%. I do not want to knock SL - it is great. But there is a difference here.

2% points on an extreme is much more meaningful than 2% points in the middle. The top 5% are all great schools - nobody denies that - but there is something to be said for being at the very top!

Essentially, school rankings are a bell curve (as are most any rankings thta havea norm)- think of it like that.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >WILL THE SOUTH LAKES COMMUNITY AGREE TO DELAY
> THIS WHOLE ISSUE FOR A YEAR AND SUPPORT A
> COUNTY-WIDE HIGH AND MIDDLE SCHOOL REDISTRICTING
> EFFORT?<
>
> NO! Because every time there has been any move to
> delay, nothing happens or things get worse, and
> South Lakes gets the shaft.
>
> We have an opportunity NOW and a need NOW and NOW
> is when we need to do this.
>
> I can't speak for others, but I would support a
> county-wide stude AFTER this goes through, given
> that it appears so many other areas are being
> considered for shifts in the future.
>
-----------
All right, I'm still trying to work with you here. South Lakes boundary changes this year that affect ONLY rising freshmen next year. Next year: Liberal pupil placement, with transportation provided to ninth graders who pupil-place back to their "old" schools because the buses are going there anyway. In other words, those who want to move can, and those who want to stay also can. So is everybody happy?

Also next year: South Lakes will AGAIN be considered for boundary changes along with the entire northern third.

I say we hire a professional QUALIFIED consultant to draw the lines without all the poilitical BS tainting the process.

Then the communities have an opportunity to input their thoughts (dangerous driving paths or whatever), then the School Board will have to justify ON THE RECORD (no back room deals), why the pros are wrong.

We start with SL and surrounding schools (1/3 sounds good to me) and we have it in place in one year.

In the meantime, something extraordinary needs to be offered at SL to encourage pupil placement-I don't know what but some program that will attract a few hundred kids from another district.

No school should be insulated from any redistricting.

Clarifier Wrote:
>
> ... This isn't name-calling or insults here. This is a
> serious concern that South Lakes has, born of a
> history of prejudice against it.

-------
Clarifier, I have read enough of your posts to know you can participate in a rational discussion. However, you really should learn to try to avoid using words like "prejudice." I have recently been in the South Lakes building, I do know a lot about IB and have had offspring enrolled in pre-IB. I am NOT pre-judging IB. I have tried it and DO NOT LIKE IT.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, I do not agree that these numbers
> are a measure of a school's quality. South Lakes
> IS a high-quality school on many fronts, but it
> does not have the same opportunity for its
> students to take higher level or some standard
> courses and many kinds of electives that
> neighboring schools do, because it does not have
> the core set of kids it needs to offer them.
>
> Furthermore, for those numbers people out there,
> it will be 700 under-enrolled next year without
> redistricting, remember? Underused resources? =$s?
> =numbers? Buses taking kids 10+ miles when they
> could be going 3? How much does it cost to fill up
> a bus tank and maintain a bus when it goes 14
> extra miles per day, 180 days per year?


The only kids that travel over 10 miles are those who go to Langley and are excluded from this ridiculous experiment. My house is one of the last in the Oakton district, and it is only about 8 1/2 miles away and takes less than 20 minutes to get there in rush hour traffic.

This should be postponed another year, and professionals should be brought in to analyze the entire county.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, I do not agree that these numbers
> are a measure of a school's quality. South Lakes
> IS a high-quality school on many fronts, but it
> does not have the same opportunity for its
> students to take higher level or some standard
> courses and many kinds of electives that
> neighboring schools do, because it does not have
> the core set of kids it needs to offer them.
>
----------
How many times must we say it? If you want the curriculum of an AP school, then get rid of IB. In FCPS you cannot have both. In an IB school, IB must predominate, with one or two (or at huge Robinson, six) AP courses and to fill in gaps, like AP government.

If you like IB, great. Keep it, but don't try to force other children into it, and don't complain that the courses are not the same as those offered in an AP school.

Folks who think I'm talking about them when I use the term "prejudce" without naming anyone might consider why it strikes them so hard.

As for other issues now back in discussion, it appears that any more of my time spent here is wasted. We've gone over a great deal of this before, and I don't have any more hours to give to repeat it all in hopes that some people might understand the need at South Lakes, or change their minds about the worth of IB, or consider that we are greater than the sum of our parts, or think about the fact that a rising tide lifts all boats.

I'm nearly becoming addicted to sparring here, I've found myself being provoked out of being temperate, and it is no longer healthy or worthwhile. If other South Lakes and/or RD supporters stick around, have fun. Otherwise, the rest will be spiraling in their own vortex.

I look forward to seeing some of you in the Fall.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lee Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am in full agreement with Forum Reader on
> > putting a stay on this project and start over
> with
> > each school reevaluated.
> >
> > I have tried to keep up with most of the posts,
> > but it is impossible to read all. Given that,
> has
> > there been a discussion about the results of
> The
> > McKibben Demographic Report. I have read the
> > comments from the Enrollment Projection Task
> Force
> > dated Jan 2007.
> >
> > Has FCPS implemented any of the recommendations
> > from the study before doing this latest
> > redistrict? The report clearly states that FCPS
> is
> > not qualified to do the work themselves based
> on
> > their staff. Do we have professionals working
> on
> > this? I think it is money well spent if it can
> > save taxpayers from building new schools (like
> the
> > SOCO middle school).
> >
> > I would like to know if anyone else feels that
> > this is a matter best handled by the pros.
>
> --------------
> I would have the pros draft the proposals, but
> then let the community make input that is actually
> incorporated. The pros just cannot know, much less
> factor in, all the details. Example: Some roads
> ARE more dangerous, and even though they "look
> shorter" on paper we don't want more buses and
> high school drivers on them.


Yes, please make it happen. Go get started. Especially if your professionals will pay attention to the importance of keeping elementary schools intact that are intact today. Whoever in their right mind thinks that splitting up Floris is the right, good or fair thing to do to a community, is shameless.

Clarifier Wrote:
> ... Furthermore, for those numbers people out there,
> it will be 700 under-enrolled next year without
> redistricting, remember? Underused resources? =$s?
> =numbers? Buses taking kids 10+ miles when they
> could be going 3? How much does it cost to fill up
> a bus tank and maintain a bus when it goes 14
> extra miles per day, 180 days per year?
--------

System-wide FCPS has too many high school spaces, remember? South Lakes is one of several high schools to have hundreds of empty seats next year. If you want to do something NOW to save money, lobby to stop construction of the $7M+ Langley addition and to have their "excess" students sent to South Lakes, where you have room for them.

As for transportation, in other pyramids middle and high school students ride the same buses, so the bus only has to make the route once. This is true not only for secondary schools but also for other co-located schools like Frost and Woodson. Do Hughes and South Lakes share the buses? If not, why not? ? How much does it cost to fill up a bus tank and maintain a bus when it goes over the same route four times a day instead of two, 180 days per year?

[Note: because of severe overcrowding that could easily be addressed by boundary changes in South County, high school students at that school start earlier and get out earlier than their middle schoolers. They have separate bus routes in the morning. After school, the middle school bus can also serve as the high school late bus.]

Clarifier - thanks for all the prattle. I'm sure you will reincarnate yourself if you've not already done so.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Families with children do not buy homes in the
> Reston area because the schools are dreadful.
> That's why enrollment is down. Don't kid yourself.
> This has been going on for a long time.


Sunrise Valley is not a dreadful school. It is better than many of your elementary schools. The majority of families in Reston that went to Sunrise Valley with me went on to go to South Lakes and be happy with it.

This effort should be cancelled not postponed.

At some point the old coots holed up in their utopian Reston homes will move, retire or expire. At this point, the homes will turn over and South Lakes will revive. Until then enjoy the smaller class sizes, and the ease with which you can make your varsity team. If you get tired of it... move.

After 104 pages some consensus building needs to happen-

1. FCPS staff and/or Dean Tilstadt are not qualified to make any boundary decisions. This has been demonstrated numerous times before.

2. SOCO boundary war is still going on-every time FCPS tries to fix it it gets worse. Read Belter's editorial blasting Storck on the way this was handled. His back room dealing with the Mason Neck folks screwed West Springfield and SOCO by causing it to be overcrowded.

3. Keep the SB members OUT of the decision making process-turn it over to professional consultants who have no debts to pay to anyone. We need objectivity and fairness in the process.

4. South Lakes is hurting and we need to help that school-it is not their fault they are in this mess. FCPS, by neglect, but this school where it is today. I don't buy that demographic shift BS coming out of FCPS as the reason.

5. NO SCHOOL in FCPS should be branded as undesirable-it isn't fair to the kids who attend these schools. We need to be proactive in raising the standards of our weaker schools.

6. There will be less money to spend going forward. We are looking at budget cuts of $100-125 million for the next two years. Noone in FCPS created a "rainy day fund". They spent, spent, spent and now we have some problems. Our decisions on sending need to be better.

7. IB and AP are both outstanding programs and deserve respect and presence in our schools. Remember IB haters, there are more pupil placements to IB schools than to AP schools. Both programs will co-exist with pupil placement available to the FEW who object (I think there were 1000 placements for IB/AP reasons). Most people are happy with what they have.

All parents need to unite against The Man or this flawed process will continue. The only alternative is to demand professional input outside FCPS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/12/AR2007121201005.html

LeaveMyKidAlone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2007/12/12/AR2007121201005.html


Great article. Mr. Carney described perfectly what has happened. Hopefully we won't be left to dangle in the wind now that so many other neighborhoods are wiping their collective brow with relief that they have escaped this latest proposal.

South Lakes Racists,

South Lakes wants white kids? Show me and prove that South Lakes started this whole thing?

The COUNTY wants this because it costs them more money to let you white kids stick together and let other county facilities go under utilitized. It also costs them money to bus poor kids from across the county to go to south lakes simply because white parents across the street from the school dont want their kids to have to walk in the same hall way that araent white.

I can understand their opinion on not wanting their kids exposed to kids with low family and social values that are into drugs and violence. Letting the white neighborhoods stick together in the same school isnt Fairfax Countys job. If you dont like the geographic location you live in then move or goto private school.

No sense to cry and complain about receiving a free highschool education. You should just keep your mouth shut and be thankful for the opportunity. Otherwise tell you parents to pony up for private school.

Sorry, just the facts mam.

Are you that dumb or are you just possessed by a retarded ghost? HAH!

FME Mom - I know there will be a lot of Oakton people (not in Fox Mill) there to support you in keeping Oakton together as it is today. We have no interest in Navy, we want our friends in Fox Mill.

>>>Invocation of a some "ism" or another is often a substitute for engaging in discussion.<<<

Well said. Thank you. The 'isms' do grow tiresome, and are like any name calling, never productive.

>>>Invocation of a some "ism" or another is often a substitute for engaging in discussion.<<<

Well said. Thank you. The 'isms' do grow tiresome, and like any name calling, never productive.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom - I know there will be a lot of Oakton
> people (not in Fox Mill) there to support you in
> keeping Oakton together as it is today. We have no
> interest in Navy, we want our friends in Fox Mill.


Word and FME Mom-

We at Navy take that as a compliment!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Invocation of a some "ism" or another is often
> a substitute for engaging in discussion.<<<
>
> Well said. Thank you. The 'isms' do grow
> tiresome, and like any name calling, never
> productive.


OMG. Pot meet Kettle.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LeaveMyKidAlone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
>
> > le/2007/12/12/AR2007121201005.html
>
>
> Great article. Mr. Carney described perfectly
> what has happened. Hopefully we won't be left to
> dangle in the wind now that so many other
> neighborhoods are wiping their collective brow
> with relief that they have escaped this latest
> proposal.

Too bad you don't know the difference between an article, as you call it, and an opinion piece. Mr. Carney lives in Fox Mill Estates, therefore, he is not qualified to be an objective article writer.

Exodus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>Invocation of a some "ism" or another is
> often
> > a substitute for engaging in discussion.<<<
> >
> > Well said. Thank you. The 'isms' do grow
> > tiresome, and like any name calling, never
> > productive.
>
>
> OMG. Pot meet Kettle.


In contrast, tardy apologies for calling Quantum a blowhard 50 pages ago. That was misdirected testiness on my part, esp. toward one who consistently has been thoughtful and civil.

stormcenter Wrote:
> > Great article. Mr. Carney described perfectly
> > what has happened. Hopefully we won't be left
> to
> > dangle in the wind now that so many other
> > neighborhoods are wiping their collective brow
> > with relief that they have escaped this latest
> > proposal.
>
> Too bad you don't know the difference between an
> article, as you call it, and an opinion piece.
> Mr. Carney lives in Fox Mill Estates, therefore,
> he is not qualified to be an objective article
> writer.

----
In your view, just who IS qualified to be "objective"?

This man is a professional. "Dan Carney, an automotive critic and columnist for MSNBC, lives in the Fox Mill Estates neighborhood ..." If he owns a Ford does that make him "not qualified to be an objective article writer" about Buicks?

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LeaveMyKidAlone Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
>
> > le/2007/12/12/AR2007121201005.html
>
>
> Great article. Mr. Carney described perfectly
> what has happened. Hopefully we won't be left to
> dangle in the wind now that so many other
> neighborhoods are wiping their collective brow
> with relief that they have escaped this latest
> proposal.


I think anyone who is wiping their brow right now shouldn't be. They have shown us that they can and will do whatever they want to do and I wouldn't be surprised if they pull something else out of their collective butts before this is all over. At any rate, those of us in the Oakton district consider Fox Mill to be a very vaulable part of the school and we won't sit by and watch it happen.

To: FME Mom, who wrote the following:

"Great article. Mr. Carney described perfectly what has happened. Hopefully we won't be left to dangle in the wind now that so many other neighborhoods are wiping their collective brow with relief that they have escaped this latest proposal."
_________________________________________
Yes, it was great!!!!



To: stormcenter, who wrote the following to FME Mom:

"Too bad you don't know the difference between an article, as you call it, and an opinion piece. Mr. Carney lives in Fox Mill Estates, therefore, he is not qualified to be an objective article writer."
_________________________________________

Too bad you don't know the definition of opinion. You make absolutely no sense, here.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If someone is a
> literary genius, they should not have to sit next
> to someone who reads at an elementary level, or
> doesn't know proper placement of an apostrophe.
> What is a gifted child going to gain out of a
> class where the teacher has to explain proper
> usage of apsotrophes, and what is the remedial
> child going to learn if the teacher does NOT
> explain proper usage of apostrophes?

I have read FFX HS senior essays for college admission on many occasions and I can say that FFX HS seniors who exhibit knowledge of the proper use of the apostrophe were so rare as to be designated an "endangered species". I ascribed this phenomenon to FCPS's infatuation with "whole language" which was at its height when the current cohort of FFX HS students were going through elementary and middle school.

If you want to see how pervasive the ill effects of this ill starred fad was on the children of FFX, ask your child tonight to name the eight parts of speech and give an example of each one's proper use in a sentence.

I have yet to find a child who graduated from any FFX public school since 1996 who could pass this little quiz.

I agree with Forum Reader,

Why wouldn't this man be qualified to write a news story about this issue? Do you, stormcenter, actually believe that most articles are written with total objectivity?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Under Option 5
> - South Lakes is overcrowded and there is no
> buffer. The capacity for SL is 2050 not 2100. It
> was reduced 50 seats because of the remodel job.

Before the renovation capacity was 2150 after the renovation its 2100.

> With all
> the new development planned for the area, this is
> not a good idea. There must be a buffer.

Which is why I supported Option 4, to no apparent avail.

> - McNair is now an attendance island. While it may
> not look that way on the map, the area in between
> contains NO HOMES and is zoned for industrial use.
> McNair is forced to drive 10+ miles to Westfield
> when both South Lakes and Herndon are closer.
>
> - McNair / Coppermine is expecting large growth.
> This is not addressed at all.

Neither is going to SL. Both would not improve the FRL at SL.

Is it me or do the majority of people believe this study should stop? I do not want to throw other neighborhoods 'under the bus' to fix a systemic problem with the pyramid that feeds into SHS. They have great students who excel and achieve but no one can argue that their scores and rankings aren't equal to their surrounding schools.

We need to communicate the the school board that a 'stop work order' is the only solution.

If redistricting is found to be necessary, do it with all the boundary schools included and with accurate numbers/data. Stop wasting our taxpayer dollars to fund this study.

To the School Board: Stop Redistricting and get your acts together before beginning it again!

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Forum Reader,
>
> Why wouldn't this man be qualified to write a news
> story about this issue? Do you, stormcenter,
> actually believe that most articles are written
> with total objectivity?

So you support the liberal press, Birdlover? I'll bet you complain about the lack of objectivity in the press when it goes against your interests. FME mom called it an 'article.' It was not an article, it was an opinion piece. An article would have shown all sides of the story.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But we don't
> need it. The school has over-projected growth in
> the area for the last five years. (No, not white
> flight to avoid South Lakes, as fumers here like
> to fume. But aging-in-place and not being able to
> afford to move up to the pricey Reston homes when
> families grow out of townhomes. And families
> buying condos and apartments and when they have
> kids, moving where there is SFH housing available.
> Which it isn't in Reston because it's so popular.
> And GT kids returning to their base schools.)

Parroting Marie Allen's anti-intellectual tripe makes you look as much a luddite as she is regarding the practice of demographics.

Is some of this loss of yield attributable to GT and magnet elementary kids returning to their base schools? It would seem the FCPS would be aware of this phenomenon and be able to incorporate it into its projections and thus avoid the surprises. So I'm very skeptical of this hypothesis.

There is some element of SL avoidance in the shortfall in student yield. How much it is and whether its attributable to IB, the former principal, the crime numbers or general reputation, no one knows, not Maria, not me and not you. If the FCPS staff knows, they ain't talking.

I do know several families who moved away from SL and bought houses of equal type and size in adjacent HS attendance areas. Each of these families professed the reason for the move was to get away from some aspect of SL: IB, principal, coaches.

If this fall in yield is attributable to any condition that has recently change (principal, crime) than assuming a continuing shortfall into the future is dangerous and foolish.

If the shortfall is based on a condition that is unlikely to change (IB) then incorporating it into future projections makes sense.

But until we all know why, simply assuming the continuation of this fairly recent phenomenon is foolishness.

You are smarter than this, CH.

TM, only insecure people find it necessary to put down others when making their own points. You are smarter than that, or so I thought.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McNair is forced to drive 10+ miles to Westfield

Wrong, McNair is 6.8 miles to Westfield. I drive it.

stormcenter,
I would ignore TM. His condescension and OPD is legendary on this site.

Thanks for the reminder, SLPP.

And seriously, no one can call that Washington Post "article" anything other than what it is, a flaming opinion piece. Shame on the Post for printing that unless it was billed as an editorial.

I just went and looked. It's NOT billed as an opinion piece. I can't believe the Post could print it without it even remotely trying to look objective.

I don't think the numbers that show up at the boundary meeting constitute the "majority", and he should not be allowed to claim that without checking his facts. Many people who don't really mind coming to SL aren't going to the meetings. I know many personally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2007 07:53PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

On the loss of students through GT. Of course there is something to this, GT students from Herndon return to Herndon for high school. Don't know the numbers, but I think it would be preferable to have more base kids at Hughes so that they can continue onto SL.

Again, I truly think that focusing on SL's strengths is the best option for her students. The IB program is excellent, and should be bolstered by 'Magnet status'. SL should be a Humanities magnet, as TJ is for Sci and Tech.

(Quantum, you write just beautifully. Where did you learn to write, by the way?)

Anyway, judging from the brief explanation of IB's methodology at the IB/AP meeting Monday night, it seems to derive its raison d'etre from collaborative work. Maria Montessori put this methodology to work in troubled neighborhoods in Rome, and was rewarded with great success.

I realize that many from SL do not want to go down this path, but I see no sense in hiding IB behind a veil of similarity to its surroundings. It should be implemented to its furthest extent.

There would be no separate classes of students, as the core students would be educated the same as, and with the magnet students. Tutoring is involved here, and would satisfy the CAS (community service) hours requirements.

Such a move would take courage, and we all should help in some way.