yeah right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer,
> Your friend bought in Crossfield to get her
> children OUT of SL, just like everyone else.


Wow, I am so naive. I didn't realize she was a liar.

I only lied because I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

It's interesting, Old Timer, but there is a SL advocate posting here who ran into the same situation. After living in a Reston townhome for several years, she was forced to move out of the Pyramid to Franklin Farm (Crossfield) because she couldn't afford a SF house in Reston. She pupil-places her kids to SL, except for the one who went to TJ.

SLVerity:

What is wrong with you Global Citizens? I thought you were all about love and peace and kindness.

VaDriver responds to Old Timer with a valid, straight forward post. You jump in and answer her, which is fine, but you are pompous and condescending.

And, who are you anyway, the Global Physic? How do you know VADriver's property value won't suffer?

appointed board members Lou Zone [Hunter Mill] and Stu mendelsohn[Dranesville] started this elected members put in a lot of new development that did not exist when the appointed members made that move. As recently as 2003 FCPS put new developments NW of Baron Cameron in the Hunter Mill District [Reston PO box] into Langley: Falls Park [street Markell Ct] built by ENGLE HOMES VIRGINIA INC [that oddly is shown as Colvin Run to Cooper and Langley] . I think Gulick did these in Reston-Hunter Mill back in the late 1990's: ESTATES AT WYNDHAM HILLS [got Langley then blocked access road to 7 so it only opens to Reston Parkway].

Then there are Armstrong/Herndon/Herndon newer developments homes like Cedar Chase [Herndon address but Hunter Mill] that are very expensive. Other stuff like Grand Hamptons is further west on the other side of the FXC parkway and goes to Langley. I have no idea under which watch parts and parcels got moved as new homes went up. But a lot was under Gibson and Strauss since capcity conditions chnaged at herndon and South Lakes accordingly to "FX Underground" historians.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's interesting, Old Timer, but there is a SL
> advocate posting here who ran into the same
> situation. After living in a Reston townhome for
> several years, she was forced to move out of the
> Pyramid to Franklin Farm (Crossfield) because she
> couldn't afford a SF house in Reston. She
> pupil-places her kids to SL, except for the one
> who went to TJ.

Maybe there just aren't enough moderately priced homes in Reston. There seems to be plenty of low priced housing. Also, although I am fond of contemporary style, not everyone is. Ironically enough, when we were house hunting about 10 years ago(moving to avoid a bad elementary school in Vienna), we liked a lot of the Reston houses but didn't want Dogwood, SL, etc. Ha ha, joke's on us!

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What is wrong with you Global Citizens? I thought
> you were all about love and peace and kindness.

Stick your beak in a tree, BirdBrain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 12:38PM by Berdhuis.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent, my house is as traditional as they come. There are many 'modern' homes in Reston, but in my area the balance is traditional.

You are right about how things change over time, though. Bad elementary school in Vienna is probably good now, I bought my home 22 years ago when SL was considered very desirable and Vienna and the West Ox area were not.... and now you prefer not to move here. This area is very fluid and I think all areas will go up....a rising tide lifts all boats.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BirdLover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > What is wrong with you Global Citizens? I
> thought
> > you were all about love and peace and kindness.
>
>
> Stick your beak in a tree, BirdLover.

Don't worry, Berdhuis, Birdlover is just hung-over and mad, because Padre never showed up. In her drunken stupor, she mistakenly thought two cats fighting under her window was guitar serenading from Padre.

Welcome back, Old Timer!!

You missed alot while you were on vacation. A person named Berdhuis dropped by, a nice guy from McNair, father of 3 sons. He doesn't own property cause he was laid off from his job, so he's just renting. But it didn't look like he was taking that job search too seriously, cause he was in here posting about every 2 seconds.

Ever heard of him?

Berdhuis, sorry I didn't realize you were still here.

By the way, don't look up. You never know when I might fly right over your head.

SLVerity wrote:

"Don't worry, Berdhuis, Birdlover is just hung-over and mad, because Padre never showed up. In her drunken stupor, she mistakenly thought two cats fighting under her window was guitar serenading from Padre"

_________________________

Don't worry, Verity, I know a cat when I see one.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> By the way, don't look up. You never know when I
> might fly right over your head.

Je te plumerai, BirdBrain

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent, my house is as
> traditional as they come. There are many 'modern'
> homes in Reston, but in my area the balance is
> traditional.
>
> You are right about how things change over time,
> though. Bad elementary school in Vienna is
> probably good now, I bought my home 22 years ago
> when SL was considered very desirable and Vienna
> and the West Ox area were not.... and now you
> prefer not to move here. This area is very fluid
> and I think all areas will go up....a rising tide
> lifts all boats.


At any rate, I've never thought that the impact on housing prices was a good reason not to redistrict. It would be hypocritical to claim that it's unfair to us but then also say that Langley should be included.
I understand that sometimes boundary lines have to be redrawn, but in this case I'm not sure that the SB has made a compelling case for it. There are MANY high schools in the country that have enrollments of around 1400. Heck, the enrollment of St. Alban's is only 310 (avoiding work again). I know that comparing a public to a private school isn't a direct comparison, but the point is that just being a smaller school doesn't have to trigger a boundary change. As others have pointed out, there are other small high schools in FCPS that aren't getting changed.

Since there are so many SL parents on this board who have kids at UVA, how about we strike a deal: we will happily send our kids to SL, and as long as they maintain a certain GPA and do fairly well on SATs, you, Clarifier and any other UVA parents will strongly advocate (donate the profits from rising real estate values as needed) for our kids to join yours at Mr. Jefferson's University. Start chatting up the admissions folks now, show good faith initial contacts, and my sons are yours for the taking. Just leave the daughter at Oakton. On second thought, you can have her too, except she wants to go to college in California. Any U Cal alums out there?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 12:50PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent:
-------------------------------------------------------
Heck, I am an alum of The University. I'll even write your sons or daughter a letter of recommendation!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 01:01PM by SLVerity.

SLVerity,
You mean THE U? As in U of Miami? That would fit you and the SL thugs to a T.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > foxmill/carson/oakton parent, my house is as
> > traditional as they come. There are many
> 'modern'
> > homes in Reston, but in my area the balance is
> > traditional.
> >
> > You are right about how things change over
> time,
> > though. Bad elementary school in Vienna is
> > probably good now, I bought my home 22 years
> ago
> > when SL was considered very desirable and
> Vienna
> > and the West Ox area were not.... and now you
> > prefer not to move here. This area is very
> fluid
> > and I think all areas will go up....a rising
> tide
> > lifts all boats.
>
>
> At any rate, I've never thought that the impact on
> housing prices was a good reason not to
> redistrict. It would be hypocritical to claim that
> it's unfair to us but then also say that Langley
> should be included.
> I understand that sometimes boundary lines have to
> be redrawn, but in this case I'm not sure that the
> SB has made a compelling case for it. There are
> MANY high schools in the country that have
> enrollments of around 1400. Heck, the enrollment
> of St. Alban's is only 310 (avoiding work again).
> I know that comparing a public to a private school
> isn't a direct comparison, but the point is that
> just being a smaller school doesn't have to
> trigger a boundary change. As others have pointed
> out, there are other small high schools in FCPS
> that aren't getting changed.
>
> Since there are so many SL parents on this board
> who have kids at UVA, how about we strike a deal:
> we will happily send our kids to SL, and as long
> as they maintain a certain GPA and do fairly well
> on SATs, you, Clarifier and any other UVA parents
> will strongly advocate (donate the profits from
> rising real estate values as needed) for our kids
> to join yours at Mr. Jefferson's University. Start
> chatting up the admissions folks now, show good
> faith initial contacts, and my sons are yours for
> the taking. Just leave the daughter at Oakton. On
> second thought, you can have her too, except she
> wants to go to college in California. Any U Cal
> alums out there?

No other small schools are currently getting a boundary change. How many of them are so underutilized? Watch what happens the next few years. I bet Mt. Vernon gets kids from ongoing boundary issues in south county.


I bet both your kids would have a better shot at UVA from SL rather than Oakton. Better class rank too. Once again, maybe I'm naive, but I always thought the cream rose to the top. Top performers supported by parents like you will go far.

Maybe SLV can get all our kids in....

yeah right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> You mean THE U? As in U of Miami? That would fit
> you and the SL thugs to a T.


Nice. SL thugs. Ooh, do I detect sarcasm, a bit of racism? No, not on this board, couldn't be!

yeah right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity,
> You mean THE U? As in U of Miami? That would fit
> you and the SL thugs to a T.

The University is the University of Virginia - there is no other!

"I bet both your kids would have a better shot at UVA from SL rather than Oakton. Better class rank too. Once again, maybe I'm naive, but I always thought the cream rose to the top. Top performers supported by parents like you will go far."

I don't know if anyone else here read the book Freakanomics, but I remember one thing it said that really struck home with me. Basically, by the time you are pregnant and reading a How To book about babies, most of your child's chance of success in life is already determined, so the book is a waste of time unless you need really basic info. The things that matter--parents' characteristics like age, income, education, mental stability, etc.-- are what mostly determine how well a kid does, and those things are already set by the time the kid is born. Obviously things can happen that tilt things one way or another, but mostly those are outside our control anyway. So, yes, I agree that all the kids who have supportive, involved parents already have a big advantage.

As for my kids having a better shot at UVA from SL, honestly that's the best thing about going to SL as far as I can see. HOWEVER, my 8th grader wants to go to Oakton. Teenager that he is, I can see him blowing the change in plans a bit out of proportion. I'm trying to stay informed, not because I honestly think I can in any way affect the final outcome, but at least I can show him the positive aspects of SL. First thing I plan to do if Fox Mill is slated to go is show him the graduation speech. Second thing, show him some of the photos from the other redistricting thread. We all enjoy a good laugh in our family. (okay, maybe not the photos, but it's tempting)

Resource Allocation,
I seriously doubt that Stu Gibson has any idea what 'shot my wad' means today. He's just not that cool, if you know what I mean.

BirdLover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... so he's just renting.

BirdLove,

Turns out at the moment renting gives me some flexibility in case the SB won't grandfather my oldest son when McNair switches, or for space reasons can't pupil place and stay at Westfield.

> Berdhuis..... you, my dear man

No, really, BirdLove, you don't have to... I'm...touched. (so sweet)

SLVerity Wrote:

>
> The University is the University of Virginia -
> there is no other!


My husband the Tech alum finds that figure of speech SO charming. When he was chatting me up almost 20 years ago and we were talking alma maters, he observed,"oh, so I guess we were rivals." I said, "you know, we never really thought of it as a rivalry, we just made fun of you."

hmm....while i don't think that the school board and FCPS leadership have been held sufficiently accountable for their handiwork in the decline of South Lakes, I think, especially given the sizable slug of disadvantaged students there, that a population of only 1400 does not augur well for their future. Bluntly put, it leaves the school with a much smaller group of capable, no problem students relative to other local schools, and notwithstanding the protestations of SL supporters as to how special the school is, it puts the school on a continuous edge, with less margin for error in terms of being deemed a desirable place to attend. And being on the edge makes things difficult - it makes it harder to recruit good staff, it makes for defensive parents, and so on... It really doesn't make sense for the school to be this underpopulated - so the question is as to how this challenge can best be fixed.

This of course is not welcome news for those expected to have their status quo changed - which indeed will happen. The lesson to be learned here, which I doubt will be learned, is indeed that schools must be really vigilant in avoiding a decline, because that causes immense rancor and problems. And while Neen has, let's say, a provocative style, her comments on how the trendy folks in education have caused many a decline are accurate. The decline is not due to bad intentions, but the education establishment has really veered off base by becoming more of a social movement than simply focusing on educational competence, gained not through feel good self esteem programs but by often hard and challenging rote learning. Disagree? Feel free to do so. But really, the proof is in the pudding - because it is exactly the source of the positive things people are saying about the current principal at South Lakes (the prior one apparently ascribing to the oft held tenets of diversicrats). Blocking and tackling on the fundamentals works - discipline included - as well as real math, phonics in reading (except for those learning disabled few), emphasis on critical reading, and high standards. Query how those in the Fox Mill schools will perceive whether all those things will happen at South Lakes. I wish them good luck.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah right Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity,
> > You mean THE U? As in U of Miami? That would
> fit
> > you and the SL thugs to a T.
>
> The University is the University of Virginia -
> there is no other!



How goes it - Wahoo-wah? I've tried to talk my kid into thinking about C'ville, but he is much younger and only focused on top 20 in the ACC. Boys will be.

> "I bet both your kids would have a better shot at UVA from SL rather than Oakton.

I made this point a long time ago and was shouted down by the same SL crowd. My point was that many kids who get into UVA from SL wouldn't be getting in if they went to Oakton because of the competition.

>>>Bad elementary school in Vienna is probably good now<<<<

Nope. Feeds to Kilmer and Marshall and still isn't very good.

http://www.fcps.edu/suptapps/schoolprofile/profile.cfm?profile_id=077

The school is doing better than some other schools because a few years ago they got direct instruction and phonics. The teachers didn't like it until they saw that it really worked. Most teachers care about their children's learning. They will a program that works for their children but the administration has to back these programs and so far they don't and they won't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 02:08PM by Druzilla.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bought my home 22 years ago
> when SL was considered very desirable and Vienna
> and the West Ox area were not.... and now you
> prefer not to move here. This area is very fluid
> and I think all areas will go up....a rising tide
> lifts all boats.

Hmmm.... when was South Lakes ever considered desirable and Vienna not? In my 23 years in the area, Vienna has always been desirable, although I have always preferred Oakton over Madison.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "I bet both your kids would have a better shot
> at UVA from SL rather than Oakton.
>
> I made this point a long time ago and was shouted
> down by the same SL crowd. My point was that many
> kids who get into UVA from SL wouldn't be getting
> in if they went to Oakton because of the
> competition.

Word - so sorry you were shouted down, but I agree with you. Maybe the implication was that they didn't deserve to get in. You have to admit that SL folks have had to be a little defense as of late. A recent post, two or so back called SL kids, thugs. It gets a little tiring.

UVA or VATech don't give a hill of beans whether your kid lives in Reston or Oakton or McLean for that matter. They look at them all the same - FFX County. They only take so many of them. When there are 100 of you with the same 3.8 GPA and same SAT scores, clearly NOVA kids have more competition all around. I've known even TJ kids who had problems getting into the school of their choice because of the competition.

>>>Better class rank too.<<<

FCPS doesn't do class rank anymore, except at Stuart. FCPS doesn't like competition. (Don't tell kids that they will have to compete in the real world for jobs. It's a secret in FCPS.)

>>>I bought my home 22 years ago when SL was considered very desirable and Vienna and the West Ox area were not.<<<<

You are delusional. South Lakes was very considered better than Madison or Oakton.

Scenario:
The two alternate elementary schools for McNair children are Aldrin and Armstrong, based of course on McNair's SOL failure rates. FCPS says that alternate schools are chosen based on driving time, distance, and sometimes space. Why Floris was not chosen last summer seems to defy their own logic.

Question:
While linking McNair with Aldrin and Armstrong in such fashion, would that relationship determine the outcome of McNair's, Aldrin's and Armstrong's fate in the imminent redistricting?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Driver, I think you and I can both agree that
> Langley is a different animal. In no way does the
> Oakton/Chantilly/Westfield area equate with
> Langley. I almost put a contract on a house on
> Seneca road around 15 years ago. Back then the
> area was still at Herndon and the prices were very
> expensive, because it was a Great Falls address.
>
>
> I don't think your housing value will change in
> the least. If you or others move our Pyramid
> area, it will end up equalizing perception-wise
> with other close areas. Your prices won't fall but
> will likely stay the same. Outside of your little
> world, most people think of Reston as a very
> affluent community. They think of Reston Town
> Center, for example. They don't pick it apart the
> way you have.
>
> Remeber, this is not a zero sum game. One area
> does not have to suffer at the expense of another.


Oakton is not far behind Langley.

Yes, a lot of young, childless people see Reston as an affluent area with all of the corporate headquarters and the Town Center. Reston is trying to compensate for the three large ghettos. However, when these young professionals get a little older and have children, they don't want to raise them in the overpriced apartments, and want their children to go to school with children from similar backgrounds.

And if I hear one more SL supporter crying racism, I'm going to puke. Classism, sure! Racism, no.

We can even take a simple thing such as dolls. The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to play with Bratz. In conversations had with the parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not convey a positive message, rather they promote slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it MAY BE laughable, but it's a small example of the different mentalities of people in diffent classes (for the most part.) I prefer my child to associate with children whose parents have similar beliefs.

>>>>I don't know if anyone else here read the book Freakanomics, but I remember one thing it said that really struck home with me. Basically, by the time you are pregnant and reading a How To book about babies, most of your child's chance of success in life is already determined, so the book is a waste of time unless you need really basic info. The things that matter--parents' characteristics like age, income, education, mental stability, etc.-- are what mostly determine how well a kid does, and those things are already set by the time the kid is born. Obviously things can happen that tilt things one way or another, but mostly those are outside our control anyway. So, yes, I agree that all the kids who have supportive, involved parents already have a big advantage.<<<<

Yes, I loved that book. As I recall, in addition to parent's age, income, education, was genes. I know it's not PC to say but genes matter in smarts, just like they do in everything else. The child of a great athlete is more likely to be athletic, the child of musician is more likely to have some musical ability, the child of an genius is more likely to have some smarts.

FCPS simply cannot make up for everything a parent has, or lacks, when a child is born. They cannot make everyone equal, but they will die trying. What better way than to bring down the top while bringing up the bottom?

>>>>I bet Mt. Vernon gets kids from ongoing boundary issues in south county.<<<<

Not a chance. If FCPS was going to do that, they would have done it when they did the South County boundaries.

>>>>We can even take a simple thing such as dolls. The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to play with Bratz. In conversations had with the parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not convey a positive message, rather they promote slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it MAY BE laughable, but it's a small example of the different mentalities of people in diffent classes (for the most part.) I prefer my child to associate with children whose parents have similar beliefs.<<<

Excellent points! Those Bratz dolls are disgusting. I can't imagine any parent buying them for their child. Who wants to give their daughter THAT message, it's disgusting. And who wants to dress their 7 year old like she's a sexy 20 year old? Why the heck are some in our society sexualizing CHILDREN like this? It's horrifying.

Do you really have that much faith in your statement? Last I checked, UVA has the same standards for everyone. That is why so many from TJ go. There is no quota for each high school.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > "I bet both your kids would have a better shot
> at UVA from SL rather than Oakton.
>
> I made this point a long time ago and was shouted
> down by the same SL crowd. My point was that many
> kids who get into UVA from SL wouldn't be getting
> in if they went to Oakton because of the
> competition.

FME mom,
Funny,
I've heard that there is a contingent of Crossfield (Rachel Carson) middle school girls that dress like Britney Spears. This surprised me, but there you are. My daughters friends do not dress like that, and they go to Hughes. So not sure the point you are trying to make.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 02:47PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Yes SLPP,
All the white trash that couldn't afford those exclusive single family homes in Reston HAD to go somewhere, so they all moved to Crossfields, and subsequently Rachel Carson.

Old Timer Wrote:

> UVA or VATech don't give a hill of beans whether
> your kid lives in Reston or Oakton or McLean for
> that matter. They look at them all the same - FFX
> County. They only take so many of them. When
> there are 100 of you with the same 3.8 GPA and
> same SAT scores, clearly NOVA kids have more
> competition all around. I've known even TJ kids
> who had problems getting into the school of their
> choice because of the competition.

You are correct that UVA and Tech reject a significant fraction of applicants even from TJ, but you are incorrect in that there are significant differences in the "average" student admitted from various high schools.

UVA:
Jefferson: 324 applied, 201 admitted
McLean: 51 applied, 13 admitted
Average GPA accepted: Jefferson: 3.95 / McLean: 3.87
Ave SAT: Jefferson: 1502 / McLean: 1379

Virginia Tech:
Jefferson: 161 applied, 129 admitted
McLean: 88 applied, 38 admitted
Average GPA accepted: Jefferson: 3.95 / McLean: 3.66
Ave SAT Jefferson: 1477 / McLean: 1326

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Driver, I think you and I can both agree that
> > Langley is a different animal. In no way does
> the
> > Oakton/Chantilly/Westfield area equate with
> > Langley. I almost put a contract on a house on
> > Seneca road around 15 years ago. Back then the
> > area was still at Herndon and the prices were
> very
> > expensive, because it was a Great Falls address.
>
> >
> >
> > I don't think your housing value will change in
> > the least. If you or others move our Pyramid
> > area, it will end up equalizing perception-wise
> > with other close areas. Your prices won't fall
> but
> > will likely stay the same. Outside of your
> little
> > world, most people think of Reston as a very
> > affluent community. They think of Reston Town
> > Center, for example. They don't pick it apart
> the
> > way you have.
> >
> > Remeber, this is not a zero sum game. One area
> > does not have to suffer at the expense of
> another.
>
>
> Oakton is not far behind Langley.
>
> Yes, a lot of young, childless people see Reston
> as an affluent area with all of the corporate
> headquarters and the Town Center. Reston is
> trying to compensate for the three large ghettos.
> However, when these young professionals get a
> little older and have children, they don't want to
> raise them in the overpriced apartments, and want
> their children to go to school with children from
> similar backgrounds.
>
> And if I hear one more SL supporter crying racism,
> I'm going to puke. Classism, sure! Racism, no.
>
> We can even take a simple thing such as dolls.
> The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill
> play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to
> play with Bratz. In conversations had with the
> parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not
> convey a positive message, rather they promote
> slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't
> see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class
> areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the
> girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous
> dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts
> and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls
> in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it
> MAY BE laughable, but it's a small example of the
> different mentalities of people in diffent classes
> (for the most part.) I prefer my child to
> associate with children whose parents have similar
> beliefs.


I asked several parents of Terraset kids whether they know of, or their kids and kids' friends play with, Bratz. They didn't/don't. Never heard of "bling bling Barbies" either. I thought that's what I threw down (the bling bling part) when my daughter loved American Girl dolls for a whole year....

Neen - I too like Freakonmics, especially having an identical twin brother with a Chicago econ Phd who shares a lot with Leavitt - have heard this stuff for years.

But one book that I can really recommend - is Life at the Bottom by Theodore Dalyrmple, a medical doctor who spent years working at a clinic in estate housing (read public housing) in England. His work describes the worldview that makes the underclass in England - which echoes the same complaints we hear about the underclass here in the US, which, of course, as in England, is rife with people who make a whole bunch of rotten choices, and who, contrary to the moral relativists, can't recover easily from those bad choices such as the liberal elites profess everyone should be able to do. The great thing about this work is just how frank it is - he describes in detail the consequences of the liberal shibboleths that unconscious motivations for one's acts obviates personal responsibility, and the widespread acceptance of social determinism. The Brits have been at this social welfare thing (with equally lousy results) longer than we have, and with more intensity, Maggie Thatcher notwithstanding, so he is not speaking to a non-transitory ill. Even better is that he relates the culture of lower class whites in England. This of course hamstrings his critics, because they can't invoke the cry of racism, and with Marxism passe or shown to be rather a joke, can't invoke classism very well either, unless somehow one can decry the permanent damage Henry the VIII did in restricting hunting rights or some other attenuated cause.

I can only imagine if Dalymple was required reading for a high school class - no doubt many would find it offensive - the notion of accepting personal responsibility often is - but I can think of no better piece to enhance the understanding of diversity than a critical piece, written about another culture, that yet demonstrates that accountability to a set of immutable principles yields benefits. If I were principal of a private high school, I would assign it in a heartbeat. (Anyone of us can actually read the whole thing, albeit piece by piece, on the archives of City Journal's website).

"I thought that's what I threw down (the bling bling part) when my daughter loved American Girl dolls for a whole year...."

Ah yes, the levels

Bratz: trashy parents who probably smoke in front of the kids
Barbie: average familes, not quite living paycheck to paycheck
American Girl: parents with serious social-climbing goals or parents who avoid any additives in their kids' diet. I hate to admit it, but my family snickered when we went to Williamsburg and saw very ernest girls dressed like their colonial dolls.

My daughter never got excited about Barbies, which is too bad cause my mom saved mine from the 1970s, along with her very groovy outfits. Daughter did like American Girls, also for about one year. Now even my nieces don't want them. Glad my daughter was too old when Bratz came around.

Neen-

Since you seem to think you are an expert on all topics, I am curious about your opinions on the latest Fairfax County budget projections. A shortfall of $220 million due to the "crash" in real estate (folks don't think we have bottomed yet). FCPS is 60% of the budget which of course translates to about a $130 million cut in FCPS budget.

You stated before that FCPS always gets more money. I would love to hear how all of these programs that you talk about in schools are going to continue.

>>We can even take a simple thing such as dolls. The girls that my daughter plays with in Fox Mill play with Barbie dolls, and are not allowed to play with Bratz. In conversations had with the parents, they all agree that Bratz dolls do not convey a positive message, rather they promote slutty clothing, and skanky behavior -- you don't see "Bling Bling Barbie." In the lower class areas, you predominantly see Bratz. In fact, the girls seem to friggin' worship those ridiculous dolls. You see seven year olds in bootie shorts and midriff exposing shirts. You see little girls in high heels. This may seem laughable, and it MAY BE laughable, but it's a small example of the different mentalities of people in diffent classes (for the most part.) I prefer my child to associate with children whose parents have similar beliefs.<<

This is funny -- coming from a glass house. When my current 13 yo daughter was in 5th grade, she was invited to a birthday party by one of her Fox Mill friends -- almost all the girls were from that neighborhood -- to a place at the mall where they dressed up like little, well, "Glams" was a very kind way to put it, and got their pictures taken. My husband was in charge of that invite acceptance, and neither of us knew what to expect, and we didn't question it b/c of the "upstanding" family involved. It was pretty horrifying what those girls did in the name of "creativity." Tongue action, naval action, slinkly things... These were "upstanding middle-classe Fox Mill girls" acting like MTV sluts. Shivver.

At Carson, I have been disgusted by the khol-rimmed eyes and slutty makeup so many of the gilrs wear. My daughter tried it once, then when I asked why she was doing it, and she said no reason, and I explained that the perceived reason is to catch men, and was she trying to catch men, she was also apalled, and quit. The influence here came from friends in the Oak Hill neighborhood. Also solidly upstanding, so they claim.

Bratz, Barbies -- they are all horrible role models. Thankfully, most girls grow out of that queazey doll phase if they have other role models, like Mom. So I really applaud FME mom for hanging in there with her kids. It's hard enough to battle the influence of television and music, never mind friends who might live right next door! You go, Mom!

I love that folks here love Freakonomics! It supports our point that no matter WHAT school your child goes to, he or she WILL succeed (if you let them). So don't worry, y'all! We are going to have a grand time together at South Lakes.

Quantum,
I also read "Life at the Bottom" by Theodore Dalyrmple. What an eye opener. I agree that every student in the US should read it, along with "Freakonomics". Students could learn so much about what happens when people feel they have no responsibility for their lives.

BTW, DH is an economist, which has contributed greatly to my ability to THINK, rather than just FEEL my way through life.

Lee Parent Wrote:
> Neen-
>
> You stated before that FCPS always gets more
> money. I would love to hear how all of these
> programs that you talk about in schools are going
> to continue.

--------------
Every year FCPS complains the forecast looks dire. EVERY year. When the economy is booming, they complain the Supervisors will lower the tax rate.

Then they threaten to cut something parents want, like fourth grade strings, or GT programs, or (this year) freshman sports. Then lots of parents show up at the Board of Supervisors meeting demanding more money for schools. In the end the programs are not cut.

Maybe FCPS could require parents (except for FRM) to pay all IB and AP costs, like most school systems do. That would save at least five million.

If FCPS actually does make some cuts this year, I would believe them more next year when they will again say they need money.

Alternative scenario now up for comment at fcps.edu

First person to page 100 wins!

Forum Reader,

I don't think comparing TJ with any other school in FCPS is fair. TJ is selective, so naturally their GPA's are going to be higher. A more fair comparison might be that SL had the same number of students admitted to UVa this year as Langley (I believe it was 44 students admitted and a 58% acceptance rate at SL - don't know acceptance rate at Langley), even though Langley's graduating class was at least 150 kids higher.

SLVerity, you win!

Just checked out the new map; I got Navy right.

I think I win on more than one front!

SLHS Padre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I asked several parents of Terraset kids whether
> they know of, or their kids and kids' friends play
> with, Bratz. They didn't/don't. Never heard of
> "bling bling Barbies" either. I thought that's
> what I threw down (the bling bling part) when my
> daughter loved American Girl dolls for a whole
> year....

They are probably the more affluent families in the Terraset district, and their children likely chum around with kids in their own neighborhood whose parents are likeminded in their beliefs about what is appropriate for children. Go ask the parents of children in Shadowood.

You have never heard of Bling Bling Barbies because there isn't such a thing, which was my point. You see Veterinatian Barbie, Astronaut Barbie, Teacher Barbie... well, unless you look up silly pictures on the internet where you will find Dominatrix Barbie -- that amused me -- but that is not real.

Yeah, those American Girl dolls are WAY too expensive. Fortunately, my daughter has not had much interest in them (so far).

I know there are good kids in Reston. However, there are too many who come from parents with a low class mentality. Generally, negative attitudes/ images/ messages make more of an impact. Those with a low class mentality also do not have respect for figures of authority, which is trickled down to their children.

FME Mom,

Just remember that you have far more influence in your children's lives than anyone else, and make sure to exercise it every day. You won't regret it!

I'm sorry to disabuse some notions here, but "low-class mentality" has nothing to do with income. It has to do with values, and frankly, some of the values in high-income homes are pretty nauseating. So perhaps we shouldn't be working this broad brush today.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader,
>
> I don't think comparing TJ with any other school
> in FCPS is fair. TJ is selective, so naturally
> their GPA's are going to be higher. A more fair
> comparison might be that SL had the same number of
> students admitted to UVa this year as Langley (I
> believe it was 44 students admitted and a 58%
> acceptance rate at SL - don't know acceptance rate
> at Langley), even though Langley's graduating
> class was at least 150 kids higher.


What were the average SATs and GPAs of Langley and SL applicants who were accepted??

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I thought that's what I threw down (the bling
> bling part) when my daughter loved American Girl
> dolls for a whole year...."
>
> Ah yes, the levels
>
> Bratz: trashy parents who probably smoke in front
> of the kids
> Barbie: average familes, not quite living paycheck
> to paycheck
> American Girl: parents with serious
> social-climbing goals or parents who avoid any
> additives in their kids' diet. I hate to admit
> it, but my family snickered when we went to
> Williamsburg and saw very ernest girls dressed
> like their colonial dolls.
>
> My daughter never got excited about Barbies, which
> is too bad cause my mom saved mine from the 1970s,
> along with her very groovy outfits. Daughter did
> like American Girls, also for about one year. Now
> even my nieces don't want them. Glad my daughter
> was too old when Bratz came around.


American Girl has gone down the tube since Matel bought it from Pleasant Company. Its getting closer to Barbie everyday...minus the prices.

New scenario is up.

Thank God my mom lives next door to Westfields.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Heck, I am an alum of The University.

Why am I not surprised.

BTW it's Mr. Jefferson's country club aka the Charlottesville Country Day School

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What were the average SATs and GPAs of Langley and
> SL applicants who were accepted??

For SL - SAT 1997, GPA 3.7

Sorry, I don't have numbers for Langley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 04:21PM by SLVerity.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why am I not surprised.
>
> BTW it's Mr. Jefferson's country club aka the
> Charlottesville Country Day School

Don't they call BC the playground for rich northeastern Catholics?

Crossfield. Westfield. No "s" at the end.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What were the average SATs and GPAs of Langley
> and
> > SL applicants who were accepted??
>
> For SL - SAT 1997, GPA 3.7
>
> Sorry, I don't have numbers for Langley.

------------
Just so we can keep looking at apples and apples, do you have the SAT number on the 1600 scale for SL? Do you also have the numbers for Tech and W&M?

Can you provide the "top 20 schools applied to" list?

Any Langley parents (or other school parents) who can provide the numbers for other schools? (You can get to them through your student's Blackboard account.)

Navy folks: Are you ok with the new split? It keeps those closest to Chantilly there. It does send those to the East further, to Oakton, though. I'm not familiar with how neighborhoods break down in that area, nor with the commute to Oakton from that part of Navy.

Chantilly folks: If Navy stayed split as it is now, would you be ok with the trailers and no reduction in numbers? (i.e., no change)

I love the discussion about scores and college placements going on. It means everyone really cares deeply about a good education for their kids. So when we all have kids at our respective schools next year, with more coming to South Lakes finally, we will carry this enthusiasm with us, and keep working to make each of our schools the best they can be, right?

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------
> Just so we can keep looking at apples and apples,
> do you have the SAT number on the 1600 scale for
> SL? Do you also have the numbers for Tech and
> W&M?

SL UVA - SAT 1997, GPA 3.7 55% acceptance rate
SL WM - SAT 2000, GPA 3.7 48% acceptance rate
SL VT - SAT 1862, GPA 3.6 58% acceptance rate

The numbers by each SAT section are not broken down on the data that I have.

FME Mom Wrote:
> New scenario is up.
>
-------
I know there is no option that would satisfy all criteria, but, looking only at the numbers posted:
1. Navy kids have a longer commute.

2. Madison, already below the "magic 2,000" ideal size, is drawn further down.

3. Wesfield and Oakton have a lot of wasted space. Oakton, with a capacity of 2.325, is projected to have only 2,026 in 2012.

4. South Lakes, capacity 2,100, is projected to have more students that larger Oakton; South Lakes is projected to be close to capacity in 2012.

Conclusion: Taking fewer students from Oakton would better fit the capacity of both buildings.

Clarifier,

Wow. A whole post dedicated to an erronious "s"? Now THAT'S petty.



Well, I better sell my house before it drops another $50K with the plethora of homes that are about to go on the market in light of this ridiculous plan.

For those of you so desiring socio-economic balance, explain to me why South Lakes is still has TWICE AS MUCH as the other schools? Doesn't seem balanced to me.

I'm sorry, I don't want my child going there.

Guess it's time to petition the government to move some of the ghetto out of Reston. THEN I'd quit my bitching.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom Wrote:
> > New scenario is up.
> >
> -------
> I know there is no option that would satisfy all
> criteria, but, looking only at the numbers
> posted:
> 1. Navy kids have a longer commute.
>
> 2. Madison, already below the "magic 2,000" ideal
> size, is drawn further down.
>
> 3. Wesfield and Oakton have a lot of wasted space.
> Oakton, with a capacity of 2.325, is projected to
> have only 2,026 in 2012.
>
> 4. South Lakes, capacity 2,100, is projected to
> have more students that larger Oakton; South Lakes
> is projected to be close to capacity in 2012.
>
> Conclusion: Taking fewer students from Oakton
> would better fit the capacity of both buildings.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above conclusion. This scenario does very little to address overcrowding at Westfeild and/or Chantilly...the two schools most "in need" of being addressed. However, it affects Oakton the most...the one school that really didn't have anything wrong with it in the first place! Talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul. My take is that the people whining about Title I McNair going into South Lakes got some attention...Again, it is all boiling down to Stu Gibson giving them everything they want because they are the ones who reelected him. Fox Mill voted against him 2:1 so he will punish them. South Lakes is getting to hand pick the students they want to bring up their scores and give them a winning team of some sort, all on the backs of Oakton kids.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum Reader Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What were the average SATs and GPAs of
> Langley
> > and
> > > SL applicants who were accepted??
> >
> > For SL - SAT 1997, GPA 3.7
> >
> > Sorry, I don't have numbers for Langley.
>
> ------------
> Just so we can keep looking at apples and apples,
> do you have the SAT number on the 1600 scale for
> SL? Do you also have the numbers for Tech and
> W&M?
>
> Can you provide the "top 20 schools applied to"
> list?
>
> Any Langley parents (or other school parents) who
> can provide the numbers for other schools? (You
> can get to them through your student's Blackboard
> account.)



From the SLHS PTSA website for your (and anyone else's) perusal, so SLVerity can get a breather:

http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/UnivList.pdf

Looking forward to your comments.

FME Mom,
That's the best SE balance of the all the options, even though it is still twice as much.

I agree with you on spreading the affordabile housing more equitably around the county. That will be my next issue when redistricting is done.

However, I would disagree that the affordable housing is necessarily "ghetto". Part of it is recent, upwardly mobile immigrants that make up the ESOL population, which, while they may lack money and require more school resources, often have the "values" you are looking for. So, I think these are two very different populations and should not be lumped together.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Why am I not surprised.
> >
> > BTW it's Mr. Jefferson's country club aka the
> > Charlottesville Country Day School
>
> Don't they call BC the playground for rich
> northeastern Catholics?

No, that would be Holy Cross, where Clarence Thomas and Dave Bobzein went.

BC is known as the most academically rigorous Jesuit university in the United States.

Do your '06 and '07 SL grads understand that they are legacy admits to the Country Day School?

>Guess it's time to petition the government to move some of the ghetto out of Reston. THEN I'd quit my bitching.<

I take it back, Mom. You are poison to your American Girl girl. Glad your mama lives near Westfield. They can go home to her instead of you.

Didn't want to get personal, but sheesh. How personal is continuing to bray about race and provoke things?

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy folks: Are you ok with the new split? It
> keeps those closest to Chantilly there. It does
> send those to the East further, to Oakton, though.
> I'm not familiar with how neighborhoods break down
> in that area, nor with the commute to Oakton from
> that part of Navy.
>
> Chantilly folks: If Navy stayed split as it is
> now, would you be ok with the trailers and no
> reduction in numbers? (i.e., no change)


WE ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS AT ALL!

From my neighborhood (near FO hopital) it is 2 miles to CHS. We are more oriented to Rt 50. We get on 50 near Pender Methodist Church and go straight to Stingfellow Road. It is over 7 miles to Oakton via either I-66 or the back way which is two lane and can be very dangerous. We shop at Greenbriar for god's sake not Oakton. We'll see what happens.

Chantilly folks: If Navy stayed split as it is
> now, would you be ok with the trailers and no
> reduction in numbers? (i.e., no change)


You bet your life that we would be happy with no change. If the mods are staying, so should we. What's the difference of 150 kids. Give us a break...South Lakes got what it wanted....Herndon got what it wanted...Why can't they just leave us alone..

looks like south lakes got everything they wanted and everyone else got screwed

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, I don't want my child going there.

Guess it's time to petition the government to move
some of the ghetto out of Reston. THEN I'd quit
my bitching.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

FME Mom.....you need not apologize for anything. No parent in their right mind would choose South Lakes High School over Oakton, Chantilly and Westfield (s).

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Why am I not surprised.
> > >
> > > BTW it's Mr. Jefferson's country club aka the
> > > Charlottesville Country Day School
> >
> > Don't they call BC the playground for rich
> > northeastern Catholics?
>
> No, that would be Holy Cross, where Clarence
> Thomas and Dave Bobzein went.
>
> BC is known as the most academically rigorous
> Jesuit university in the United States.
>
> Do your '06 and '07 SL grads understand that they
> are legacy admits to the Country Day School?



Do you really want to undercut the home team....again?

Best, a Gerald Phelan fan.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> Do your '06 and '07 SL grads understand that they
> are legacy admits to the Country Day School?

They most certainly do, but both worked very hard in high school and both were well above the school average for SAT and GPA; in other words, they had just as good a shot of getting in as any other kid in their class, thank you. Any particular reason why you are so inclined to make this about my kids?

NavySplitPersonality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> looks like south lakes got everything they wanted
> and everyone else got screwed


Yup. Stu Gibson is obviously rewarding those who voted for him and punishing those who didn't! But hey, South Lakes can now offer jewelry making and have competitive sports....they'll probably even be able to beat Oaktonin some sport. Since they took Fox Mill, they'll be bigger than Oakton. I guess the only good news is that since Oakton will be 300 students under capacity, there will be no reason NOT to accept pupil placed kids. So Fox Mill people, start working on your paperwork. Oakton has sign language if you need something right away to get you in.

As a South Lakes supporter, I would support keeping Navy as it is if that is what Navy and Chantilly and Oakton all want, provided Fox Mill, NE Floris, and Madison come to South Lakes. Do you have support from the school and its other communities to keep Navy as is? Do you have any suggestions for relieving Chantilly if that is what Chantilly needs?

In my view, South Lakes has the greatest need. While relieving Chantilly from being overcapacity, and getting Westfield numbers of core students down was one of the goals, I have not been hearing ANYWHERE from parents at those two schools complaining about the numbers. If there is no support for relief, then the balance of support for change has to be for South Lakes'.

Re Westfield capacity, why not add an academy or other stand-alone program there to take up some of its excess capacity? Perhaps an academy that's at Chantilly could move to Westfield, thus relieving it of numbers.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a South Lakes supporter, I would support
> keeping Navy as it is if that is what Navy and
> Chantilly and Oakton all want, provided Fox Mill,
> NE Floris, and Madison come to South Lakes. Do you
> have support from the school and its other
> communities to keep Navy as is? Do you have any
> suggestions for relieving Chantilly if that is
> what Chantilly needs?
>
> In my view, South Lakes has the greatest need.
> While relieving Chantilly from being overcapacity,
> and getting Westfield numbers of core students
> down was one of the goals, I have not been hearing
> ANYWHERE from parents at those two schools
> complaining about the numbers. If there is no
> support for relief, then the balance of support
> for change has to be for South Lakes'.
>
> Re Westfield capacity, why not add an academy or
> other stand-alone program there to take up some of
> its excess capacity? Perhaps an academy that's at
> Chantilly could move to Westfield, thus relieving
> it of numbers.


The only way you could keep Navy where it is without pretty much making Oakton about 500 under enrolled would be to put McNair into South Lakes in place of Fox Mill. Would South Lakes accept that? I doubt it. It seems this is turning into what South Lakes will accept rather than what is necessarily in the best interest of the THREE (not four) high schools that had issues in the first place.

Clarifier,

You are a very bad person.

Clarifer.....you are like a teachers fingernails on a blackboard...time to shut up.

Go visit one of your freakin museums and leave FME alone.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FME Mom,
> That's the best SE balance of the all the options,
> even though it is still twice as much.
>
> I agree with you on spreading the affordabile
> housing more equitably around the county. That
> will be my next issue when redistricting is done.
>
> However, I would disagree that the affordable
> housing is necessarily "ghetto". Part of it is
> recent, upwardly mobile immigrants that make up
> the ESOL population, which, while they may lack
> money and require more school resources, often
> have the "values" you are looking for. So, I
> think these are two very different populations and
> should not be lumped together.


There is a difference between affordable housing and government housing. Stonegate, West Glade, and Cedar something-or-other (next to Forest Edge) are not for "upwardly mobile immigrants." They are for lazy welfare recipients who enjoy sitting on their butt with their hands in our wallets while blaming you and I for their predicament.

I have no problem with ESL programs. I have never complained about immigrants who have arrived LEGALLY, nor have I said anything racially inflammatory.

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The only way you could keep Navy where it is
> without pretty much making Oakton about 500 under
> enrolled would be to put McNair into South Lakes
> in place of Fox Mill. Would South Lakes accept
> that?

Would Oakton accept McNair? I think it's a fair question.

hmmm07,
I think socieconomic balance is a worthy goal, but apparently you would be willing to sacrifice that for South Lakes. Thanks a lot for your altruism.

The alternate option helps SE balance the most, minimizes the number of students making a change, and limits dominoing. It also doesn't gut Herndon. I think these are good reasons to like it.

And this isn't really about what SL wants. If we could, we would get Langley in the study too. This just seems like the most reasonable option in addressing the criteria of the study, which I agree with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2007 05:33PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > The only way you could keep Navy where it is
> > without pretty much making Oakton about 500
> under
> > enrolled would be to put McNair into South
> Lakes
> > in place of Fox Mill. Would South Lakes accept
> > that?
>
> Would Oakton accept McNair? I think it's a fair
> question.

Absolutely. If McNair wants to drive it, I have no doubt that Oakton would take them without complaining...especially since Oakton will be so far under capacity.

I'm still not hearing Oakton/Chantilly/Westfield parents complain about their numbers.

If you look at all 8 criteria, the option proposed now would meet them all. Proximity and commuiting issues improved overall, socioeconomic balances significantly improved, capacity issues resolved, program access about to be improved as a result, split feeders remain the same (Floris was going to be split anyway; Navy boundaries moved), buffer for South Lakes, neighborhoods stay together.

Of all scenarios discussed, this one affects the LEAST numbers of schools, and has the LEAST domino effects.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
>
> There is a difference between affordable housing
> and government housing. Stonegate, West Glade,
> and Cedar something-or-other (next to Forest Edge)
> are not for "upwardly mobile immigrants." They
> are for lazy welfare recipients who enjoy sitting
> on their butt with their hands in our wallets
> while blaming you and I for their predicament.
>
> I have no problem with ESL programs. I have never
> complained about immigrants who have arrived
> LEGALLY, nor have I said anything racially
> inflammatory.

I guess you missed the part about Welfare reform. It is no longer easy to 'sit on your butt,' since welfare reform kicked in. Stonegate is full of immigrants. A star immigrant football player for South Lakes now playing for VMI lived in Stonegate. You are letting your prior prejudices, leftover from your miserable youth at South Lakes get in the way of reason and logic.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07,
> I think socieconomic balance is a worthy goal, but
> apparently you would be willing to sacrifice that
> for South Lakes. Thanks a lot for your altruism.
>
> The alternate option helps SE balance the most,
> minimizes the number of students making a change,
> and limits dominoing. It also doesn't gut
> Herndon. I think these are good reasons to like
> it.

I would be willing to do alot for South Lakes...put a magnet in there, put an academy in there, other things that many others have suggested, but that SOuth Lakes people refuse to consider. What I won't be willing to do is have the social engineering project by the school board pull schools into this whole thing that didn't need to be there in order to address the over/under enrollment issues. To say this is the least dominoing scenario is just wrong. How is pulling Navy into Oakton because they had to pull Fox Mill out of Oakton not a domino??

hmmm07 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Absolutely. If McNair wants to drive it, I have
> no doubt that Oakton would take them without
> complaining...especially since Oakton will be so
> far under capacity.

So far under capacity? I think that's a relative term. The SL renovation is resulting in a reduction in capacity of 100 students, to make room for more and better shared facilities in the school. I imagine that the same will happen when Oakton is renovated.

FME Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FME Mom,
> > That's the best SE balance of the all the
> options,
> > even though it is still twice as much.
> >
> > I agree with you on spreading the affordabile
> > housing more equitably around the county. That
> > will be my next issue when redistricting is
> done.
> >
> > However, I would disagree that the affordable
> > housing is necessarily "ghetto". Part of it is
> > recent, upwardly mobile immigrants that make up
> > the ESOL population, which, while they may lack
> > money and require more school resources, often
> > have the "values" you are looking for. So, I
> > think these are two very different populations
> and
> > should not be lumped together.
>
>
> There is a difference between affordable housing
> and government housing. Stonegate, West Glade,
> and Cedar something-or-other (next to Forest Edge)
> are not for "upwardly mobile immigrants." They
> are for lazy welfare recipients who enjoy sitting
> on their butt with their hands in our wallets
> while blaming you and I for their predicament.
>
> I have no problem with ESL programs. I have never
> complained about immigrants who have arrived
> LEGALLY, nor have I said anything racially
> inflammatory.


Wow, you know all the residents at the "ridge" now do you? Let's not start a welfare debate here. I've met some of the residents. One couple that comes to mind were new legal immigrants, both were engineers, one was going for his PhD. Stick that in your generalizing hat and smoke it.

And it's blaming "us" so you and me, not I...

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Guess it's time to petition the government to
> move some of the ghetto out of Reston. THEN I'd
> quit my bitching.<
>
> I take it back, Mom. You are poison to your
> American Girl girl. Glad your mama lives near
> Westfield. They can go home to her instead of
> you.
>
> Didn't want to get personal, but sheesh. How
> personal is continuing to bray about race and
> provoke things?


Apparently your reading comprehension skills need improvement because I have never said anything racially inflammatory, nor did I say anything about my child playing with American Girl. Get it right before you try to insult me. If you biggest insult is that I worked my butt off to buy a house in a good school district so she would not have to associate with lower socioeconomic groups of children, well, that makes me a classist, not a racist. I love my diverse community in Fox Mill. As I said before, it's a diverse community whose diverse residents work and actively demonstrate a good work ethic to their diverse children.

Clarifier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still not hearing Oakton/Chantilly/Westfield
> parents complain about their numbers.
>
> If you look at all 8 criteria, the option proposed
> now would meet them all. Proximity and commuiting
> issues improved overall, socioeconomic balances
> significantly improved, capacity issues resolved,
> program access about to be improved as a result,
> split feeders remain the same (Floris was going to
> be split anyway; Navy boundaries moved), buffer
> for South Lakes, neighborhoods stay together.
>
> Of all scenarios discussed, this one affects the
> LEAST numbers of schools, and has the LEAST domino
> effects.

Tell the Navy people again how this scenario takes care of the commuting issues...

What a joke the final proposal turns out to be.

"We heard you" means they heard from the South Lakes PTA, apparently.

No McNair for SL, but "east floris" goes.

Less than 10% reduction in overall enrollment for Chantilly and Westfield. That should really make a difference, eh? I bet lots of kids will notice its easier to get into extracurriculars, what with 150 fewer kids at Chantilly out of 2600.

Oakton loses 200. I guess Navy has a stronger lobby than Floris or Fox Mill.

Almost no buffer for SL...guess they expect some folks won't materialize...?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm07 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Absolutely. If McNair wants to drive it, I
> have
> > no doubt that Oakton would take them without
> > complaining...especially since Oakton will be
> so
> > far under capacity.
>
> So far under capacity? I think that's a relative
> term. The SL renovation is resulting in a
> reduction in capacity of 100 students, to make
> room for more and better shared facilities in the
> school. I imagine that the same will happen when
> Oakton is renovated.

Is Oakton going to be renovated before 2012 when it is 300 students under capacity and has even less students than South Lakes? I hadn't heard that.

FME Mom: Whew! You are testy today. I'll just call you classist, if that's what you want. But I'm not sure how that gets you off the hook from being prejudiced and poisoning those around you with that outlook. I'm kinda glad your neighborhood is coming to South Lakes because now we get a chance to educate not just the kids there, but maybe, God willing, their families. We will love and embrace you in spite of your money.

hmmm7,
I didn't say it eliminates dominoing, but it does minimize it over some of the other scenarios.

This option weights SE balance higher than dominoing, which seems consistent with the criteria.

How about if Navy stays at Chantilly, and Oakton takes the Academy? Don't know the numbers, but that might work? Since you like academies so much, and think that an academy would be "helping" South Lakes, (which already has the MMR magnet and highest FRL in the study), maybe Oakton could take it?