"I think you and Westfield Dad may not be on the same page as to the appropriate size of the schools in your part of the county. If your community agrees that 2000 is about the right size, and there are funds available some day and a consensus that Herndon, Chantilly, Oakton, South Lakes, Westfield and Oak Hill should all be around 2000 students, I'm with you all the way."

I can't speak for Westfield Dad, but I would venture to say that given the choice of continuing to attend Westfield or a smaller Oak Hill High School, this community would overwhelmingly cheer and applaud an Oak Hill High School. There once was talk of a smaller high school to be built on land adjacent next to Rachel Carson. That would have been wonderful.

"I have to confess I'm still a bit puzzled - what is so "alienating" about attending a different school than a sibling or, for that matter, Westfield? Is it just the size of the place? My kids have gone to "split feeder" schools, and attend a high school that is probably the third closest to our house. Sure, they are "alienated" at times, but that's because they're teenagers, not because their bus ride isn't shorter or they can't take Chemistry with their best friend from sixth grade."

There is just a major disconnect when such a small minority from Floris attends a school that is overwhelmingly from Centerville or Reston. The SB has made the disconnect worse for Floris by splitting the community in two. I don't know the final numbers but probably only about 40 or so NE Floris kids are attending SL. And by fragmenting off this group, the SB has reduced the number of Floris kids attending Westfield, making them in even a smaller minority. Floris isn't that big to begin with, so the splintering that the SB has done has been particularly destructive to our community.

"As long as Mr. Gibson does what Reston wants and leaves the town of Vienna alone (which it wants), he can win School Board elections for the next 30 years. But, please, support his next opponent - if only to make sure there is a spirited debate."

Mr. Gibson lost handily in the Fox Mill, Frying Pan, and Floris Districts during the last election. We supported Christine Arakalian overwhelmingly. Unfortunately it made no difference in the final outcome of the election.

Doubtful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Not everyone gets what they want, the kids at TJ are dealing with leaking ceilings and toilets that don't work by the end of the school
> day. Quit your griping about your poor little
> dears that have to meet new people and develop new
> friendships.

The "kids at TJ" CHOOSE to be there.

For a School Board that even considered having the money to purchase Gatehouse II, perhaps they could put that money toward the kids. . .build a high school in western fairfax AND fix the toilets at TJ.

Also they should have put the money it took to expand westfield toward a new high school in oak hill. apparently westfield will have some empty rooms in a few years. Great planning, sb!

another parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a School Board that even considered having the
> money to purchase Gatehouse II, perhaps they could
> put that money toward the kids. . .build a high
> school in western fairfax AND fix the toilets at
> TJ.
>
> Also they should have put the money it took to
> expand westfield toward a new high school in oak
> hill. apparently westfield will have some empty
> rooms in a few years. Great planning, sb!

If they'd really cared about stuff like this, they'd have made SL into TJ North to serve the west/north of the County as proposed by many in the community - but as usual they rammed their pre-existing scheme through in the most brutal way possible

FCPS Staff has now posted details of proposed redistrictings involving Annandale High and Fort Belvoir Elementary.

The Annandale proposal would involve sending @175 students from over-crowded Annandale (portion of Annandale Terrace ES district north of Route 236 and Woodburn ES) to under-capacity Falls Church and an additional @104 students from Annandale (the portion of Ravensworth ES district now attending Annandale) to under-capacity, but large, Lake Braddock. In addition, Poe students from Beechtree ES currently feeding into Stuart would be reassigned to Glasgow MS.

A few observations:

1. In comparison with the South Lakes redistricting, which reduced the percentage of ESOL and FRR students at South Lakes, the redistricting of Annandale students to Falls Church will increase the ESOL and FRR percentages at those schools.

2. Sending the additional Ravensworth students to Lake Braddock eliminates a current "split feeder," but is not consistent with a 2000-student goal for county high schools, since Lake Braddock currently has 2,515 high school students (and 1,284 middle school students).

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I think you and Westfield Dad may not be on the
> same page as to the appropriate size of the
> schools in your part of the county. If your
> community agrees that 2000 is about the right
> size, and there are funds available some day and a
> consensus that Herndon, Chantilly, Oakton, South
> Lakes, Westfield and Oak Hill should all be around
> 2000 students, I'm with you all the way."
>
> I can't speak for Westfield Dad, but I would
> venture to say that given the choice of continuing
> to attend Westfield or a smaller Oak Hill High
> School, this community would overwhelmingly cheer
> and applaud an Oak Hill High School. There once
> was talk of a smaller high school to be built on
> land adjacent next to Rachel Carson. That would
> have been wonderful.
>

I have said this before, but having grown up with township-based schools, my primary preference is for community schools with reasonably comprehensive high schools. Community schools mean pyramids that actually exist. Community schools with pyramids that are reasonably compact and coterminous to community boundaries.

I can understand and agree with the butts in seats mentality as the County built out, but, with the build out nearly complete, it's time to seriously consider how the school system can support community.

>
> There is just a major disconnect when such a small
> minority from Floris attends a school that is
> overwhelmingly from Centerville or Reston. The SB
> has made the disconnect worse for Floris by
> splitting the community in two. I don't know the
> final numbers but probably only about 40 or so NE
> Floris kids are attending SL. And by fragmenting
> off this group, the SB has reduced the number of
> Floris kids attending Westfield, making them in
> even a smaller minority. Floris isn't that big to
> begin with, so the splintering that the SB has
> done has been particularly destructive to our
> community.

You neglected to add this year's slicing off of about 60 South East Floris kids to go to Oak Hill for ES. They'll then be the only Oak Hill kids going on to Carson/Westfield. Note, the 50 kids who will replace them at Floris are from planned construction that could have gone to Oak Hill instead.

Stat Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > 1. In comparison with the South Lakes redistricting, which reduced the percentage of ESOL and FRR students at South Lakes, the redistricting of Annandale students to Falls Church will increase the ESOL and FRR percentages at those schools.< <

How can this shift raise the ESOL and FRM at both Annandale and Falls Church?

> > 2. Sending the additional Ravensworth students to Lake Braddock eliminates a current "split feeder," but is not consistent with a 2000-student goal for county high schools, since Lake Braddock currently has 2,515 high school students (and 1,284 middle school students).< <

After the SL fiasco, does anyone really expect the SB or the staff to be intellectually consistent about anything? Some secret agenda is being advanced and these fools think we are too stupid to figure it out.

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The ONLY answer to this continual madness is to build an Oak Hill High School. It's been needed for years.< <

The last system wide numbers I saw said there were 4,000 empty hs seats (enough to fill 2 high schools) and 2,000 empty middle schools seats (enough for a middle school).

Therefore, I am opposed to anymore high schools, including Oak Hill, or middle schools, including SoCo.

The limited bond money available should be spent on renovating the legacy schools that are falling apart and haven't been updated in 40 years or more.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > 1. In comparison with the South Lakes
> redistricting, which reduced the percentage of
> ESOL and FRR students at South Lakes, the
> redistricting of Annandale students to Falls
> Church will increase the ESOL and FRR percentages
> at those schools.< <
>
> How can this shift raise the ESOL and FRM at both
> Annandale and Falls Church?
>
Good catch; the transfers would raise the ESOL and FRM percentages at both Falls Church and Lake Braddock, the schools receiving students from Annandale, and reduces the ESOL and FRM percentages at Annandale. In comparison, South Lakes' ESOL and FRM percentages went down after last year's redistricting.

Stat Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > -----
> > > > 1. In comparison with the South Lakes
> > redistricting, which reduced the percentage of
> > ESOL and FRR students at South Lakes, the
> > redistricting of Annandale students to Falls
> > Church will increase the ESOL and FRR
> percentages
> > at those schools.< <
> >
> > How can this shift raise the ESOL and FRM at
> both
> > Annandale and Falls Church?
> >
> Good catch; the transfers would raise the ESOL and
> FRM percentages at both Falls Church and Lake
> Braddock, the schools receiving students from
> Annandale, and reduces the ESOL and FRM
> percentages at Annandale. In comparison, South
> Lakes' ESOL and FRM percentages went down after
> last year's redistricting.


It is mathematically possible, however, to shift students from one school to another and raise the ESOL and FRM at both schools. If School A has, for example, 30% ESOL/FRM, and sends a group that has a 20% ESOL/FRM contingent, to School B, then School A's ESOL/FRM percentage (in the remaining student body) will be higher than 30%. Then, if School B started with a 10% ESOL/FRM contingent, then an influx of students, 20% of whom are ESOL/FRM, will increase the 10% to something higher. Not saying that this is the case here, just saying that it is not an impossibility.

AP Statistics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It is mathematically possible, however, to shift
> students from one school to another and raise the
> ESOL and FRM at both schools. If School A has,
> for example, 30% ESOL/FRM, and sends a group that
> has a 20% ESOL/FRM contingent, to School B, then
> School A's ESOL/FRM percentage (in the remaining
> student body) will be higher than 30%. Then, if
> School B started with a 10% ESOL/FRM contingent,
> then an influx of students, 20% of whom are
> ESOL/FRM, will increase the 10% to something
> higher. Not saying that this is the case here,
> just saying that it is not an impossibility.

Yes - that would be the case here if the only transfers were those contemplated between Annandale and Lake Braddock involving the Ravensworth ES students. However, when the other proposed transfers from Annandale to Falls Church are included, I believe the net result would be to reduce Annandale's percentages of ESOL/FRM students.

aparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doubtful Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Not everyone gets what they want, the kids at TJ
> are dealing with leaking ceilings and toilets that
> don't work by the end of the school
> > day. Quit your griping about your poor little
> > dears that have to meet new people and develop
> new
> > friendships.
>
> The "kids at TJ" CHOOSE to be there.

So they don't deserve a decent facility? Why is that?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aparent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doubtful Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > Not everyone gets what they want, the kids at
> TJ
> > are dealing with leaking ceilings and toilets
> that
> > don't work by the end of the school
> > > day. Quit your griping about your poor
> little
> > > dears that have to meet new people and
> develop
> > new
> > > friendships.
> >
> > The "kids at TJ" CHOOSE to be there.
>
> So they don't deserve a decent facility? Why is
> that?


Sure, they deserve a decent facility. But their parents need to stop complaining about a school that they choose while they tell others, who have no choice, to be quiet and accept what they are given.

All students in the county need to enjoy the same benefits (whether they are gifted, special ed, "regular", rich or no-so rich).

aparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doubtful Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Not everyone gets what they want, the kids at TJ
> are dealing with leaking ceilings and toilets that
> don't work by the end of the school
> > day. Quit your griping about your poor little
> > dears that have to meet new people and develop
> new
> > friendships.
>
> The "kids at TJ" CHOOSE to be there.


I like how you conveniently deleted the WSHS part. What about those kids? They're being screwed over by the county while newer schools get massive renovations. The school hasn't even been on the CIP list. I guess it's okay to just let the school fall apart.

And whether parents 'chose' to put their kids at TJ or not is irrelevant. The county created this school, they have an obligation to maintain it.

Doubtful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The county created this school, they have an obligation to maintain it.< <

This is a Commonwealth school (non-Ffcx kids get seats). Hopefully some of the stimulus money for schools will help fix it.

I guess I'll leave my 2+ decade association with FCPS with my beloved Floris community being stuck:

1) Stuck with no representation on the School Board

2) Stuck as a fractured community

3) Stuck with ever increasing split feeders

4) Stuck with the likely possibility of more redistrictings

5) Stuck without a high school to call our own

It's sad to see a community that once had a stable and settled pyramid being continually ripped apart at the hands of the SB.

Oak Hill High School would solve problems #2-5.

Problem #1, Stu Gibson, appears to be an impossibility. But I think that the construction of Oak Hill High School would even make him a bit more palatable.

Floris Mom, it's good you can leave it behind soon. Unfortunately, it's going to be a long 12 years ahead for me and my kids :-(

Please plan to attend this important discussion on the FCPS proposed school budget cuts ….this is an opportunity to discuss your opinions and options regarding the proposed budget with the leaders of the various parent and teacher organizations.

FCPS Budget Cuts: Teacher and Parent Perspectives

FCPS has published its FY 2010 budget, which increases class sizes. Teachers and custodians are being fired, to the extent vacancies aren’t created by attrition. Bus service is being reduced for magnet students. This FY 2010 budget is still tentative, and the School Board will be considering changes in the FY 2010 later this spring.

On Tuesday night, March 24th, at 7:30 PM, hear from all the teachers unions and the Fairfax County Council of PTAs about how the School Board could balance the FCPS budget without increasing class sizes or making some other cuts. Panelists include Leonard Bumbaca (Fairfax Education Association), Dr. Mark Glaser (Fairfax County Federation of Teachers), Mary Kaye Downes and Vern Williams (Association of Fairfax Professional Educators) and Michele Menapace (Fairfax County Council of PTAs). After short presentations, there will be an open question and answer session.

This meeting is free and open to the general public. It is located at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, 6560 Braddock Road, Alexandria, in the auditorium.

Here's the School Board announcement about the Annandale HS boundary study - it appears that the experience with the South Lakes redistricting has turned the School Board into complete wimps.

Why else would the Board put out a press release to announce that the Board "may" do something to relieve significant over-crowding at one of its schools? They seem to go from one extreme to another - first cramming a South Lakes redistricting down people's throats and then hemming and hawing about looking at something that pretty clearly needs attention.

"Fairfax County School Board May Study Overcrowding at Annandale High School

Annandale High School is severely overcrowded, and the school system could provide enrollment relief to the school by using available capacities at Falls Church High School and at Lake Braddock Secondary School.

Poe Middle School is also overcrowded, and a boundary study would realign feeder middle schools at Glasgow and Lake Braddock to provide needed enrollment relief to Poe Middle School.

The School Board will discuss the possibility of a boundary study as new business for its March 19 meeting, with action scheduled for April 2 to vote on whether to conduct the study.

Due to the severity of overcrowding at Annandale High School and at Poe Middle School, the study is being undertaken this spring in order to allow some relief at the beginning of the 2010-11 school year.

School system staff members recommend that this study be limited to Annandale High School, Falls Church High School, Lake Braddock Secondary School, and Poe and Glasgow Middle Schools to take advantage of schools with capacity to receive new students, minimize the complexity of the study, and initiate relief beginning with the 2010-11 school year.

If the School Board votes to conduct this boundary study, it would begin in spring 2009. The process would include town meetings, community outreach, and notices. Authorization of this study does not preclude an expanded study in the future to look at other areas where relief could be provided."

wow i can't believe that after everything has been finalized that people are still posting on here. i'm not going to reread every page, but what's this about an oak hill high school? if someone wouldn't mind breaking it down quickly for me.

brian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wow i can't believe that after everything has been
> finalized that people are still posting on here.
> i'm not going to reread every page, but what's
> this about an oak hill high school? if someone
> wouldn't mind breaking it down quickly for me.

There was a Oak Hill HS in the out years in the CIP before the SL RD. It's no longer there. Three things killed it, two related to Westfield - initial build at 2500 violating FCPS's policy of 2000 max for new builds that's been on the books since the early 80s and the expansion of Westfield to 3100. South Lakes redistricting probably finally killed it.

An Oak Hill HS is the only reasonable solution to the split feeder messes at Franklin & Carson but there's no money and the SB/Staff only care about numbers, not people or communities.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > An Oak Hill HS is the only reasonable solution to the split feeder messes at Franklin & Carson but there's no money and the SB/Staff only care about numbers, not people or communities.< <

If, has been posted here many times, there are 4000 extra high school seats in FCPS, why is any sane person writing about constructing a new high school any where in this county?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > An Oak Hill HS is the only reasonable solution
> to the split feeder messes at Franklin & Carson
> but there's no money and the SB/Staff only care
> about numbers, not people or communities.< <
>
> If, has been posted here many times, there are
> 4000 extra high school seats in FCPS, why is any
> sane person writing about constructing a new high
> school any where in this county?

I agree with you, but the nitwits on the SB want to build a 60 million dollar middle school in SOCO WHEN IT IS NOT NEEDED.

This school board is all about money/politics for the rich in the SOCO area.

You give us (Storck, Bradsher) money and favors and we will give you a new school.


60 million could go a long way in this time of budget shortfalls.

Add the 130 million that the school board wants for GHII (TAJ MAHAL) and you have 190 million dollars that could save jobs, perform school repairs and school services.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > An Oak Hill HS is the only reasonable solution
> to the split feeder messes at Franklin & Carson
> but there's no money and the SB/Staff only care
> about numbers, not people or communities.< <
>
> If, has been posted here many times, there are
> 4000 extra high school seats in FCPS, why is any
> sane person writing about constructing a new high
> school any where in this county?

Thomas -
I agreed with your position on South Lakes as the Reston High School because I agree with you on the importance of schools to communities. I wanted all of Floris to remain at Westfield because, given the location of high schools, keeping us at Westfield was the best my community could hope for - that we wouldn't end up even worse off than we already were with Floris split, with a worse split feeder at Carson. In the RD, of course, we both lost.

I know an Oak Hill HS won't happen, but a couple things -

1) When the SB reviewed/revised the 2000 kid per HS policy, Staff asked what it meant for existing schools. They got no reply, but the SB used the 2000 per school policy in the redistricting war. If the SB were to be logically consistent (...) your 4000 seats more than disappear. Apply the 2000 seat limit to the HSes in the SL boundary study, you end up needing a 2000 seat school.

2) The location of HSes and MSes in/near Oak Hill is the primary source of split feeder problems at Franklin/Carson - the only MSes in the entire county that are 3-way feeders.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Thomas -
> I agreed with your position on South Lakes as the
> Reston High School because I agree with you on the
> importance of schools to communities. I wanted
> all of Floris to remain at Westfield because,
> given the location of high schools, keeping us at
> Westfield was the best my community could hope for
> - that we wouldn't end up even worse off than we
> already were with Floris split, with a worse split
> feeder at Carson. In the RD, of course, we both
> lost.
>
> I know an Oak Hill HS won't happen, but a couple
> things -
>
> 1) When the SB reviewed/revised the 2000 kid per
> HS policy, Staff asked what it meant for existing
> schools. They got no reply, but the SB used the
> 2000 per school policy in the redistricting war.
> If the SB were to be logically consistent (...)
> your 4000 seats more than disappear. Apply the
> 2000 seat limit to the HSes in the SL boundary
> study, you end up needing a 2000 seat school.
>
> 2) The location of HSes and MSes in/near Oak Hill
> is the primary source of split feeder problems at
> Franklin/Carson - the only MSes in the entire
> county that are 3-way feeders.

Sorry, I was about to add as I posted, I do think the SB actually does believe in the 2000 seat limit - for reasons that led to the policy in the first place, balancing manageability with comprehensiveness - but, given the realities of budgets, they can't implement it.

Naming the new Coppermine elementary school after Lutie Lewis Coats who taught at the Floris elementary school is a great idea. At last, the SB does something that isn't totally stupid.

Can someone justify why FFX has two high schools named for traitorous generals who fought to perpetuate and expand slavery and no high schools named for A. Lincoln, MLK or Colin Powell. It's especially troubling when the two high schools in question has substantial minority populations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2009 05:31PM by Thomas More.

So, you couldnt resist....you had to find some reason to bring this forum up from the grave. What a pandering jerk. And you do not care about school names, past or present. Go back to your porn.

Thomas More is a jerk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > So, you couldnt resist....you had to find some reason to bring this forum up from the grave. What a pandering jerk. And you do not care about school names, past or present. Go back to your porn.< <

Thanks for your help in keeping this thread alive, troll. Back under your bridge now.

It does seem rather transparent that Thomas is just bored and looking for attention...there is no reason for his/her post...seems all rather forced and insincere. Maybe thomas is the one who should scurry back under the bridge. I mean, what else is there to say that is related to this long dead issue. Alas, I suppose I do am guilty of being an evil troll...and guilty of feeding Tom's desire for attention.

Does this thread ever fucking die? Give it a rest people!

x

I am quite curious why several months ago, Dean Tisdat declared Lake Braddock "at capacity" when they were considering moving some South County kids, yet now, it has 400 empty seats to accommodate Annandale overflow.

I would welcome a response from any FCPS officials, of course.

Before we borrow $50 million for the new South County Middle School I would like an answer.

They made a deal to get Liz Bradsheer her new middle school. She had to vote for Gateway part deux. To justify the whole deal, LB had to be overcrowded. Now it doesn't, the deal's been cut. They will claim that they redid the numbers, had more kids coming in, or moving out, a new demographer found the empty seats, or a new way of predicting growth. They'll use whatever excuse they need to do whatever they want to do.

Deals R them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They made a deal to get Liz Bradsheer her new
> middle school. She had to vote for Gateway part
> deux. To justify the whole deal, LB had to be
> overcrowded. Now it doesn't, the deal's been cut.
> They will claim that they redid the numbers, had
> more kids coming in, or moving out, a new
> demographer found the empty seats, or a new way of
> predicting growth. They'll use whatever excuse
> they need to do whatever they want to do.

They are a bunch of dirt bags.

Lake Braddock empty seats?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am quite curious why several months ago, Dean
> Tisdat declared Lake Braddock "at capacity" when
> they were considering moving some South County
> kids, yet now, it has 400 empty seats to
> accommodate Annandale overflow.
>
> I would welcome a response from any FCPS
> officials, of course.
>
> Before we borrow $50 million for the new South
> County Middle School I would like an answer.

It would have been every bit as easy to send some Annandale students to Falls Church, Stuart (both have extra capacity) and/or Woodson, as to redistrict them to Falls Church and Lake Braddock. By sending some of the Annandale students to Lake Braddock next year, however, the School Board and Staff are trying to ensure that no one can claim the South County middle school isn't needed because of the extra capacity at Lake Braddock and other schools in the area.

What is happening with the bell change proposal?

They discussed it last night. They're workin' on it. You can't rush these things.

crap detector wrote:
"Closer to home, the propaganda that you learn how to write only in IB is also crap...kids in AP schools write just as much, just not in their AP exams. Do you think FCPS, as dumb as they are, would tolerate 90% of the high schools graduating kids who cannot think and write critically."

I have one thing to comment here - most kids, even in my AP English Language classes, can't write. In AP classes, most people can form sentences and write a three-paragraph essay with topic sentences, but that doesn't mean it's of any quality. Students are taught how to bullshit; in AP, we're taught to write to the test, and that's about it. I heard from my teacher, who also taught regular English, that many of her students can barely use the correct grammatical structures, much less write a coherent essay. I've seen some of that writing. I believe it. Once we get to eighth grade, English teachers seem to stop teaching writing skills and simply assign work to grade. Kids can't write nowadays, and it's a damn shame when someone can't communicate in the language they've spoken since childhood.

I still can’t believe they are going to build the South County Middle School with this recession. Lake Braddock would have been perfect for the overflow of South County. If Lake Braddock can not be used, why don’t they send students from South County to Hayfield? The school board really messed that school up when they moved the students from Hayfield to South County. Hayfield is under capacity and they desperately need students. Why can’t the school board get it right?

anonymous? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still can’t believe they are going to build the
> South County Middle School with this recession.
> Lake Braddock would have been perfect for the
> overflow of South County. If Lake Braddock can not
> be used, why don’t they send students from South
> County to Hayfield? The school board really messed
> that school up when they moved the students from
> Hayfield to South County. Hayfield is under
> capacity and they desperately need students. Why
> can’t the school board get it right?

Because they don't have to. They can do whatever they want.

Writing is as much a talent as anything else. I was a top student, and I was taught to write in HS, and again in college (lab courses in which English teachers graded the lab reports), and then again in law school. Finally, about two years out of law school, and with tireless mentoring at my job as a lawyer, I finally felt that I could "write well". The very brightest HS kids 30 years ago (my group), with the exception of those with natural writing talent, could not write worth a fu@k, and the same is apparently true today.

ap kid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> crap detector wrote:
> "Closer to home, the propaganda that you learn how
> to write only in IB is also crap...kids in AP
> schools write just as much, just not in their AP
> exams. Do you think FCPS, as dumb as they are,
> would tolerate 90% of the high schools graduating
> kids who cannot think and write critically."
>
> I have one thing to comment here - most kids, even
> in my AP English Language classes, can't write. In
> AP classes, most people can form sentences and
> write a three-paragraph essay with topic
> sentences, but that doesn't mean it's of any
> quality. Students are taught how to bullshit; in
> AP, we're taught to write to the test, and that's
> about it. I heard from my teacher, who also taught
> regular English, that many of her students can
> barely use the correct grammatical structures,
> much less write a coherent essay. I've seen some
> of that writing. I believe it. Once we get to
> eighth grade, English teachers seem to stop
> teaching writing skills and simply assign work to
> grade. Kids can't write nowadays, and it's a damn
> shame when someone can't communicate in the
> language they've spoken since childhood.

IB is not the answer for most Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Writing is as much a talent as anything else. I
> was a top student, and I was taught to write in
> HS, and again in college (lab courses in which
> English teachers graded the lab reports), and then
> again in law school. Finally, about two years out
> of law school, and with tireless mentoring at my
> job as a lawyer, I finally felt that I could
> "write well". The very brightest HS kids 30 years
> ago (my group), with the exception of those with
> natural writing talent, could not write worth a
> fu@k, and the same is apparently true today.
>
Good for you for realizing that writing is a skill that you hone over many years, rather than perfect in high school or college.

Your observations, of course, have nothing to do with the relative merits of an AP and IB curriculum.

My neighbor's kid, who went to South Lakes, just got 23 credits at college for the IB classes she took. I had heard IB didn't earn college credit.

23 is almost a semester. What gives? Who was feeding me the fat, and why?

SLHS Cuz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My neighbor's kid, who went to South Lakes, just got 23 credits at college for the IB classes she took. I had heard IB didn't earn college credit.
>
> 23 is almost a semester. What gives? Who was feeding me the fat, and why?

So what college did this? How many credits were for HL courses and how many for SL courses?

Your neighbor's kid must have taken 7+ HL/2 year courses @ SL and gotten 4-5 on each IB exam, Very rare and quite an accomplishment. Congratulations to him/her.

But the student probably would have gotten more advanced credit with less effort at an AP high school.

Wondering if the student got the IB exam results before registration for fall freshman classes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2009 06:49PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what college did this? How many credits were
> for HL courses and how many for SL courses?
>
> Your neighbor's kid must have taken 7+ HL/2 year
> courses @ SL and gotten 4-5 on each IB exam, Very
> rare and quite an accomplishment. Congratulations
> to him/her.
>
> But the student probably would have gotten more
> advanced credit with less effort at an AP high
> school.
>
> Wondering if the student got the IB exam results
> before registration for fall freshman classes.

I was told that some colleges award either 3 or 6 hours (or somewhere in between) credit for a '3' or a '4/5' on these exams. Couldn't one theoretically get to 23 credits by scoring high on only four exams?

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was told that some colleges award either 3 or 6
> hours (or somewhere in between) credit for a '3'
> or a '4/5' on these exams. Couldn't one
> theoretically get to 23 credits by scoring high on
> only four exams?

The highest AP test score is a 5; 3 is considered passing. Colleges vary as to what score is required to receive credit for a course.

The highest IB test score is 7; colleges vary as to the score that is required for credit and as to whether they give any credit for SL (Standard Level) courses or only HL (Higher Level)

There are fewer colleges that accept IB credits; FCPS has suggested that you check out the college your child wishes to attend before deciding on AP or IB. (I would think most 8th graders are undecided...)

For an idea of the variation check out these links for UVA, JMU and Georgetown:

UVA on IB
http://artsandsciences.virginia.edu/college/admissions/international_exams.html#bac

UVA on AP
http://artsandsciences.virginia.edu/college/admissions/ap_credit.html

JMU on IB
http://www.jmu.edu/admissions/info/IB.shtml

JMU on AP
http://www.jmu.edu/admissions/info/AP.shtml

Georgetown's policy
http://www12.georgetown.edu/undergrad/bulletin/admissions.html#advanced

I've asked admissions counselors at two west coast universities and they both told me that IB courses must be HL in order to get credit, but all AP classes can be used for credit. The scores must be passing or above and they would recommend that for certain majors, "retaking" the class in college would be preferable to ensure a mastery of prerequisite concepts. For example, a student can get credit for Calc AB but might need an understanding of the math in Calc BC to be successful continuing on to future courses that use "BC" concepts. But they were very specific that IB had to be HL and not SL to receive credit. So for all those IB students, they should be taking as many HL courses as possible to enter college with some credits on their transcript. This will help save money but also these students could get to register for classes before their classmates with zero credits as freshman. I've heard a lot of horror stories about kids not being able to get the classes they need freshman year to start their majors.

NoItAll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> FCPS has suggested that you check out the college
> your child wishes to attend before deciding on AP
> or IB.

FCPS transportation policy aids confused parents in coming to "their" decision.

Why is there blatant grade inflation at South Lakes? Do the kids there need a bigger bump up than students at other schools? At Oakton, kids who do well on their SOLs can get a 10 percent grade bump up on their final exams. (Final exams account for 10 percent of their yearly grade.) That translates to a possible 1 percent grade increase for students at the end of the year. At South Lakes students who do well on their SOLs can increase their end of year grade by 3 percent. That means if a student has an 91 average at the end of the year, they can get bumped up to a 94 if they do well on their SOLs. A solid B student can instantly become an A student. What is the deal with that?

Oh GOD. Not this shit again

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

graymoose1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh GOD. Not this shit again

what did you expect when "pesky deer" and the "death of Elaine K" (BORING) tops the list?

Instead of unimaginative name calling (worm food is pretty juvenile, but perhaps you are a less than bright juvenile), ATFQ!

Why is there grade inflation at SL? Why isn't the end of year 3 pt bump available to all FC HS students? Grading scale is standard, so why is this different?

If you read all the posts on the fu you would know worm food is a joke. I guess you only post here when it concerns the schools. Why not go to a school board meeting and ask?

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

why grade inflation at SL? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead of unimaginative name calling (worm food
> is pretty juvenile, but perhaps you are a less
> than bright juvenile), ATFQ!
>
> Why is there grade inflation at SL? Why isn't the
> end of year 3 pt bump available to all FC HS
> students? Grading scale is standard, so why is
> this different?

The grading scale may be standard, but grading itself is far from standard. Grade inflation exists within schools as well..we all know teachers who grade easier or harder than their colleagues.

And keep in mind there is no proof of the claims about the 1% or 3% increase. In addition, now with the 10 point scale versus the 6 point, the poster who claimed a B student becomes an A student, using the scores he provided is incorrect..both the 91 and 94 are an A.

People here need to get a grip and stop freaking out over rumors. Why even worry if a South Lakes teacher does this anyway? You think that rumored 3% will bump your kids chances from UVA...seriously, get a grip.

Fairfax Schools prepared me for four years of Devry University. A definite challenge, but now I have a great career with Best Buy. One day, years from now of course, I hope to make shift supervisor.

Blessed are the murderous.

Just thought I'd post here so this thread could live on. The discussions from the very beginning have been extremely germane to Fairfax education and, most of the time, civil and informative.

The redistricting issue will arise again, but next time, with a look at the entire county. We need to be ready to address the pros and cons.

If they want redistrict the whole county, that might be fine, but pulling students out of one of the best schools, and putting them in one of the worst based on the rouse of capacity, was total BS.

Screw Dale

Bump.

Bump...

uhm shut up. kay bye.

-

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

-0

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

This thread was awesome. Can someone tell me whats up with Liz Bradshear and her attempts at hijacking the educational system for her own ill gotten gain?

This thread was awesome. Can someone tell me whats up with Liz Bradshear and her attempts at hijacking the educational system for her own ill gotten gain?????

Bump

OMG OMG. I heard some of the kids were getting redistricted to PG and PW counties. It is being called the Prince initiative!!!

What is the "Prince Plan?"

I'm back.

You mean the issue is being debated again?

i go to westfield, but i wouldnt mind going to south lakes. theres nothing wrong with south lakes.

I heard as a tenant of NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND. They are going to redistrict children based on test scores so that the median SOL scores average out and ALL the schools share in the state and federal tax money equally.

That is an interesting perspective

Thank fucking god this forum is for fairfax and not Prince William.. Prince William Co, specifically the north and west parts of the county are constantly being redistricted. My brother's neighborhood has had 3 different elementary schools, 2 middle schools and 3 high schools over the last 8 years.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Agreed

Let me shed some light on where this school district will be in two years.

Some background, first:

6300 kids did not take the SOLs last year.

They took an easier test called The VGLA that has a near 100% pass rate.

This test is used in many of our high poverty schools so that the school can make AYP and not be labeled a "failing school".

Everyone, with me?

In two years, schools won't be able to use this easier test anymore because the Virginia lawmakers realized they were cheating and padding their scores.

So when these 6300 kids have to take the SOL instead of The VGLA they will fail and the pass rate at these 20-30 schools will tank from 85% to about 65%.

Dozens of Fairfax County schools will have to explain to someone? why their scores crashed without admitting that they have been cheating the last 5 years.

Because of all these failing schools, the School Board will have to think fast. They will have to (1) reshuffle the chairs on the Titanic deck; or (2) admit to the public and taxpayers that they are scum bags.

Which will it be? 1 or 2?

Expect major re-shuffling in two years. Hold onto your young uns who knows where they will be sent to.

Get ready for lots of charter schools.

Sounds like some Sex Ed class.

I am glad a 100% passed.

Those schools are classified in Fairfax county as Ebonics immersion schools.

Treat it like a fire drill: evacuate the building

Annandale Terrace
Baileys
Belvedere
Crestwood
Dogwood
Forest edge
Glen Forest
Graham Road
Groveton
Herndon
Hutchison
Hybla Valley
London Towne
Lynbrook
Parklawn
Providence
Washington Mill
Westlawn

Either move or start looking at private schools now.

To TWO YEARS FROM NOW:

You forgot option 3. There will be an option 3. No Child Left Behind will not be reauthorized or it will be reauthorized in a completely new form with a new name---maybe something like "Successful Schools". It won't matter which party is in control. It will happen.

If the rich folks in Clifton could not get a SB vote changed with their high powered law firm us low income parents are fucked.

Oh well, live and learn. FCPS are going down the gutter.

Give em he'll tho

run don't walk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Treat it like a fire drill: evacuate the building
>
> Annandale Terrace
> Baileys
> Belvedere
> Crestwood
> Dogwood
> Forest edge
> Glen Forest
> Graham Road
> Groveton
> Herndon
> Hutchison
> Hybla Valley
> London Towne
> Lynbrook
> Parklawn
> Providence
> Washington Mill
> Westlawn
>
> Either move or start looking at private schools
> now.

Why these schools? Isn't Bailey's an arts and science magnet school? And aren't Belvedere and Forest Edge both GT centers?

option 3 coming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To TWO YEARS FROM NOW:
>
> You forgot option 3. There will be an option 3.
> No Child Left Behind will not be reauthorized or
> it will be reauthorized in a completely new form
> with a new name---maybe something like "Successful
> Schools". It won't matter which party is in
> control. It will happen.


Both parties are committed to union busting out of necessity from a strictly economic stand point. Both have also promised to improve schools. You will see charter schools in nova in two years or less....bet on it. They can rewrite nclb but they won't abandon it's core value of improving schools.

It is good to see that the thread that got me started reading FFxU is alive and well.

It is bad to see that the continuation of the thread relates to the declining level of education (or at least "teaching to the test") continues to decline.

I will be out of here long before this decline negatively affects property values, but I am seriously recommending to my college-age kids that they embark upon their careers elsewhere. That is a sad statement, coming from a lifelong resident of Ffx County.

Since the current topic is only tangentially related to redistricting, perhaps a new thread would be appropriate...

Union busting is going to make no difference to the quality of the schools. There have been great schools with unions in the north for decades. Of course the opposite is also true.

What matters is demographics and overall support from the public. It's not happening. And you are correct---charter schools are coming here.

Respectfully disagree that union busting will not improve education. Compare California with Texas.

We need to rid our school of lousy teachers. There is no other way to say it.

Study after study tells us one thing: Teacher QUALITY is the most important contributor to student achievement.

Not salary, education, years of service, but whether they are good at what they do.

Unions, associations, or whatever you want to call them, have always opposed accountability and teacher evaluations. It is senseless.

Fairfax County has turned down state grant money where teachers could earn up to a $5000 bonus for excellent performance. They turned it down. Why? Because they do not want to offend our teachers by implementing an evaluation program.

We have a long way to go to improve schools.

What the heck - are the last 6 posts all the same poster?

edit by Cary: Yes they were. The poster also "refreshed" this thread 3,889 times in the past 15 minutes and has been banned from the server.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2011 11:57PM by Cary.

I think FCPS should give South Lakes to DC public schools. Kinda like how the DC Jail was in Virginia.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

So, we have dozens of meetings, hundreds of Type A PTA parents, and hundreds of documents and they conclude to keep Annandale HS the way it is????


HUHHHHHHHHH??????

The school is busting at the seems-25 trailers-Falls Church has only 1400 students and they decide that nothing is best????

Someone please explain this one to me.

community nitwits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, we have dozens of meetings, hundreds of Type A
> PTA parents, and hundreds of documents and they
> conclude to keep Annandale HS the way it is????
>
>
> HUHHHHHHHHH??????
>
> The school is busting at the seems-25
> trailers-Falls Church has only 1400 students and
> they decide that nothing is best????
>
> Someone please explain this one to me.

They offered three boundary options. None keep Annandale HS "the way it is."

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/annandalestudy/regional/communitymeetings.htm

gerrymandering

We just went through this with CES.

It will make no difference in how many meetings or focus groups you go to as parents. The SB will vote the way they want.

It is not just CES either.

The sleep study and zero tolerance policy changes were the same way.

Save your time and spend it with your kids.

The SB does not care about the students needs. They only like to hear themselves talk.

Since someone bumped this thread -

Happened by South Lakes over the weekend. FCPS is installing the trailers Fairfax CAPS predicted, exactly when CAPS predicted them.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since someone bumped this thread -
>
> Happened by South Lakes over the weekend. FCPS is
> installing the trailers Fairfax CAPS predicted,
> exactly when CAPS predicted them.


Big surprise there.

The veterans of the South County redistricting will be amused that one of the options now proposed for the Annandale study is to redistrict students from Annandale and Woodson to Lake Braddock, one of the state's largest schools.

And we thought that Westfield was "too big" and that the "optimal" size of high school was supposed to be around 2000 students. Guess that was only true in 2008.

Deja Vu All Over Again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The veterans of the South County redistricting
> will be amused that one of the options now
> proposed for the Annandale study is to redistrict
> students from Annandale and Woodson to Lake
> Braddock, one of the state's largest schools.
>
> And we thought that Westfield was "too big" and
> that the "optimal" size of high school was
> supposed to be around 2000 students. Guess that
> was only true in 2008.


Great thread on DCUM about the travesty called "a community dialogue" -- it's a "dialogue" where the community cannot speak. Geez, this really sounds familiar.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/166887.page

Deja Vu All Over Again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The veterans of the South County redistricting
> will be amused that one of the options now
> proposed for the Annandale study is to redistrict
> students from Annandale and Woodson to Lake
> Braddock, one of the state's largest schools.
>
> And we thought that Westfield was "too big" and
> that the "optimal" size of high school was
> supposed to be around 2000 students. Guess that
> was only true in 2008.

Did the county officially say the "optimal" size of a high school was 2000 students or was this just related to Westfield's capacity?