So is anyone unhappy with this?

Wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So is anyone unhappy with this?

During the public session where Option 3 was discussed, there were three groups opposed -

1) The Smith Farms/Emerald Chase area that's proposed to move to Oak Hill aren't happy. Couple reasons - a) They've been part of Floris for 30 years and don't want to move. b) Part of that area is in Bradley Farms HOA. The proposal splits Bradley Farms into 3 ESes - Oak Hill, Floris, and Fox Mill. c) They end up being the only part of Oak Hill going to Westfield - about 10 kids a year.

They propose that, instead of moving them, why not move the Wall/EDS areas that are in the projections, but don't have any people living in them to Oak Hill (or Lees Crossing...). (It's my understanding that Staff doesn't like it because it doesn't affect the Floris numbers in the short term & Staff is concerned about the reliability of their projections longer term)

2) A McNair contingent that really wants "NE Floris" to add to the general ed population rather than a GTC that just pretties up the top-line numbers. They are also concerned that, with the Floris "local Level IV" class available, a lot of the Floris GT eligible kids won't come and with them their active parents (ok, so that's a bad idea anyway...).

OTH, with the end of NCLB out-placements, and the removal of the parts north of the Toll Road, McNair's demographics and the grade level & above kids who've been opting for outplacements, McNair's general ed population will be significantly changed without the NE Floris kids.

3) A small contingent from the part of Floris destined for Coppermine. They want to stay at Floris, but that was never in the cards.


Staff also isn't real thrilled with it -

Staff has said they've had a lot of problems with figuring out what the numbers will really look like and, from a numbers perspective, are concerned that Floris will end up overpopulated. They're dealing with a number of uncertainties that they've typically not had to deal with -

1) The impact on McNair's population from the end of NCLB outplacements,

2) Including a program change (the GTC for McNair) in a boundary study (the Facilities people in charge are used to just moving kids in boundary studies, not programs),

3) Projecting numbers for McNair's GTC due to the Local Level IV classes at Floris (and some Floris parent's statements that they'd never send their kids to McNair for GT), and

4) The surprise increase in overall numbers county-wide.

Staff is also dealing with the fact that Floris/McNair/Coppermine/Hutchison are all so close to one another and the County's zoning policies that concentrate the high needs populations. Coppermine is where it is due to were the proffer happened to be, not due to any plan. The result is, there's no clean way to create compact boundaries for it, and it's obviously forever a Title 1.

On a different topic -

Note, Staff's statement that "Local Level IV" classes aren't necessarily restricted to County selected GTC eligible kids...

The principal decides who is in the Level 4, smart class. In some schools only 4 students in the smart class qualified for the GT center placement, the rest are filled in by the principal. Some schools with smart classes have already abandoned them for obvious reasons. They aren't really taught at the level of GT center classes since not all kids are GT kids, and the classes cause a lot of problems since nearly all parents think that their child should be in the smart class. Plus staff's love of ALL types of diversity, including intellectual diversity, makes them want to spread out any smart students among the classes.

I don't understand why Floris ES is always the one to get redistricted, or have the majority of its FCPS district redistricted to various schools.

Floris itself was nearly split in half when McNair was completed.
Floris fed into Franklin MS, but was redistricted to Carson MS when it was completed.
Floris fed into Oakton HS, but was redistricted to Westfield HS when it was completed (which therefore left them as a small population at Carson to not go to Oakton, which was the school that the students mainly fed into at the time).

All of these happened within the past 10 years.

Why are these kids in this area being bumped around so much?

Why Floris? Because Stu lets it happen. It's so much easier for staff to redistrict a school when their school board rep doesn't care.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why Floris? Because Stu lets it happen. It's so
> much easier for staff to redistrict a school when
> their school board rep doesn't care.

I agree with Neen fairly often, but not on this one. It's not that Stu doesn't care; it's just that he doesn't care about people in the Floris district. Reston is his base. He will do what he wants with the rest of Hunter Mill. As long as people blindly vote the Democratic ticket for School Board elections, nothing will change.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wondering Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So is anyone unhappy with this?
>
> During the public session where Option 3 was
> discussed, there were three groups opposed -
>
> 1) The Smith Farms/Emerald Chase area that's
> proposed to move to Oak Hill aren't happy. Couple
> reasons - a) They've been part of Floris for 30
> years and don't want to move. b) Part of that
> area is in Bradley Farms HOA. The proposal splits
> Bradley Farms into 3 ESes - Oak Hill, Floris, and
> Fox Mill. c) They end up being the only part of
> Oak Hill going to Westfield - about 10 kids a
> year.
>
> They propose that, instead of moving them, why not
> move the Wall/EDS areas that are in the
> projections, but don't have any people living in
> them to Oak Hill (or Lees Crossing...). (It's my
> understanding that Staff doesn't like it because
> it doesn't affect the Floris numbers in the short
> term & Staff is concerned about the reliability of
> their projections longer term)
>

As much as one should feel sorry for these folks, where were they when the other part of Floris was carved up and sent packing during the High School Boundary fight? As soon as they saw they weren't part of the pack up, they did not give a shit about the other part of Floris that has also been part of that community for 30+ years. Face it there is no "Floris" community any more. NE Floris doesn't give a BOO HOO about ole Smith Farms/Emerald Chase. Let them go. Let them see what it is like to be a part of the "Floris Community."

why floris? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand why Floris ES is always the one
> to get redistricted, or have the majority of its
> FCPS district redistricted to various schools.
>
> Floris itself was nearly split in half when McNair
> was completed.
> Floris fed into Franklin MS, but was redistricted
> to Carson MS when it was completed.
> Floris fed into Oakton HS, but was redistricted to
> Westfield HS when it was completed (which
> therefore left them as a small population at
> Carson to not go to Oakton, which was the school
> that the students mainly fed into at the time).
>
> All of these happened within the past 10 years.
>
> Why are these kids in this area being bumped
> around so much?

At the ES/MS levels, the answer is fairly straight forward and not particularly sinister - more kids than fit in the schools due to Floris' location and county zoning policies, but it's also affected by where proffers have given land for schools.

The HS level is more interesting, but the primary source of the HS issues (and the crazy n-way MS feeders from Carson and Franklin) is that there's no Oak Hill HS. That's a result of building Westfield where it is (proffers), building Westfield at 2500/expanded to 3100 (now officially 2800...), despite the official policy of the school district that no new HS be larger than 2000, and that there's no proffered land for a HS in Oak Hill. Before last year's travesty, there was a HS in the out-years for Oak Hill, but it appears to be gone now. Thanks Stu & Kathy, you cretins.

Mozart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why Floris? Because Stu lets it happen. It's
> so
> > much easier for staff to redistrict a school
> when
> > their school board rep doesn't care.
>
> I agree with Neen fairly often, but not on this
> one. It's not that Stu doesn't care; it's just
> that he doesn't care about people in the Floris
> district. Reston is his base. He will do what he
> wants with the rest of Hunter Mill. As long as
> people blindly vote the Democratic ticket for
> School Board elections, nothing will change.

Isn't that what I said? Stu doesn't care about Floris.

Neen, when were you released, and did your Doctor say you could post on FU?

I have been out of the loop regarding the Coppermine redistricting. I know there is one scenario which puts our houses (NE Floris) at McNair. I've seen the options. What happens next? Even though my children are no longer in elementary school I am of course very concerned about this redistricting as well. When will the SB vote on these options? Is there a process to sign up and speak before the Board (like during the SL redistricting)?

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been out of the loop regarding the
> Coppermine redistricting. I know there is one
> scenario which puts our houses (NE Floris) at
> McNair. I've seen the options.

Staff is making a recommendation to the SB. It's on BoardDocs

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/d62d9cb847ef1cbd87257328006795e4/15a9bcfbf9a91f5c87257497004261d3?OpenDocument

From what I can tell Staff's recommendation is exactly what was presented as Option 3 - a GTC at McNair - at the second meeting.


> What happens
> next? Even though my children are no longer in
> elementary school I am of course very concerned
> about this redistricting as well. When will the
> SB vote on these options? Is there a process to
> sign up and speak before the Board (like during
> the SL redistricting)?

Schedule (from Dec "Town Meeting") -

Recommendation to School Board January 8, 2009
School Board Public Hearing January 29, 2009
Public Hearing (if needed) February 4, 2009
School Board Work Session February 12, 2009
School Board Action February 19, 2009

stormcenter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen, when were you released, and did your Doctor
> say you could post on FU?

My many, many, fans petitioned the director of Happy Hills for my immediate release so that I could return to post on these vitally important matters.

You know that I wouldn't hurt a fly.............Where is Mother?!!!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stormcenter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen, when were you released, and did your
> Doctor
> > say you could post on FU?
>
> My many, many, fans petitioned the director of
> Happy Hills for my immediate release so that I
> could return to post on these vitally important
> matters.
>
> You know that I wouldn't hurt a
> fly.............Where is Mother?!!!


Glad that you are back.

thanks Westfield Dad. That is encouraging to NE Floris! For once, we may get off unscathed!

EXCUSE ME BUT WHY ISNT THIS THREAD BEING UPDATED....this thread needs to stay at the top!!!!! YOU FAT ASS AND UGLY FUCKING LOSER PARENTS WHERE ARE YOU ALL AT NOW...KEEP IT AT THE TOP!!

FairfaxCAPS and parents are organizing a lawsuit. Once we win the lawsuit the school board will learn they can't redistrict. LMAO

Didn't CAPS already try a lawsuit?

Perhaps they should lobby for school choice for every child and parent.

is it true? another lawsuit?

No

whats funny is that parents who are bitching about their precious child going to some "ghetto" school with non whites,violence,etc.

folks, let me tell you something. Your kid can have a 3.5, almost perfect SAT and still not get into the college they want, even virginia state colleges. It doesn't matter if you go to the poorest rated school or the best in FCPS, chances are, they wont get into say JMU,VA Tech,etc. Why is that? everyone is getting the same scores regardless and virginia colleges cannot just take in ONLY Northern virginia HS students.

So please go ahead and keep complaining about redistricting when you fail to think further ahead than High school. Just know your kids going to need to put a 4.0 and perfect SAT/ACT score to go anywhere nowadays.

Hey Red, what they be worried about is me and da boyz slippin the dark meat to their little white princesses.

Keepin em outta SL won't help a damn thing, wha they think we ain't got fuckin cars?

Homies and me boned some Oakton sluts just last weekend. Langley pussy be better

No Tyrone...dey be worried about me slippin' the dark meat to their sons in the locker room! I makes 'em squeal like a pig!

Wow. You've really dragged this to a new low with your pathetic, ugly and racist imitation of African-American's in your community.

Anyone know what is the schedule for the school board's vote on Coppermine?

GO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone know what is the schedule for the school
> board's vote on Coppermine?

From the 2nd boundary meeting -

Recommendation to School Board January 8, 2009
School Board Public Hearing January 29, 2009
Public Hearing (if needed) February 4, 2009
School Board Work Session February 12, 2009
School Board Action February 19, 2009

So how has SL been for the new students who decided to go along with the redistricting? Any feedback?

Just from the people I know, it seems that kids who are into sports went to SL, made a team and are doing fine.

Math/Science oriented kids are scattered out to Oakton, Herndon, and Westfield and are happy.

I don't know what the kids are saying, but many Floris parents wish that we had a community high school and that we didn't get redistricted every year or two.



SL Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how has SL been for the new students who
> decided to go along with the redistricting? Any
> feedback?

Another Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just from the people I know, it seems that kids
> who are into sports went to SL, made a team and
> are doing fine.
>
> Math/Science oriented kids are scattered out to
> Oakton, Herndon, and Westfield and are happy.
>
> I don't know what the kids are saying, but many
> Floris parents wish that we had a community high
> school and that we didn't get redistricted every
> year or two.
>
>
>
> SL Grad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So how has SL been for the new students who
> > decided to go along with the redistricting?
> Any
> > feedback?

Please explain. Why do would kids go to SL for sports? And to Oakton/Westfield/Herndon for math and science?

SL Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Floris Mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just from the people I know, it seems that kids
> > who are into sports went to SL, made a team and
> > are doing fine.
> >
> > Math/Science oriented kids are scattered out to
> > Oakton, Herndon, and Westfield and are happy.
> >
> > I don't know what the kids are saying, but many
> > Floris parents wish that we had a community
> high
> > school and that we didn't get redistricted
> every
> > year or two.
> >
> >
> >
> > SL Grad Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > So how has SL been for the new students who
> > > decided to go along with the redistricting?
> > Any
> > > feedback?
>
> Please explain. Why do would kids go to SL for
> sports? And to Oakton/Westfield/Herndon for math
> and science?

Ok, that response was from a second-hand parent who's nose sticks between the window blinds when kids walk up and down the street. You're an SL Grad why don't you stop into the school and ask real life people yourself or better yet answer your own question.

SL Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please explain. Why do would kids go to SL for
> sports? And to Oakton/Westfield/Herndon for math
> and science?

I only know a couple of kids that pupil placed out of SL from FM and from what I know it's usually been because a sibling goes to Oakton. I'm sure there are a few FM kids that placed out for AP math/science classes but I don't know very many.

On the sports side, I know a kid who went out for the SL freshman football team and said there were 40 kids that signed up for it, up from 27 the prior year. Meanwhile, over at Oakton 80 kids tried out for freshman football so you'd have to have some pretty mad skills to even get noticed there. The SL freshman football team actually won most of their games too, maybe future football seasons there won't be so depressing in the future.

Bblabitbity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Grad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another Floris Mom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Just from the people I know, it seems that
> kids
> > > who are into sports went to SL, made a team
> and
> > > are doing fine.
> > >
> > > Math/Science oriented kids are scattered out
> to
> > > Oakton, Herndon, and Westfield and are happy.
> > >
> > > I don't know what the kids are saying, but
> many
> > > Floris parents wish that we had a community
> > high
> > > school and that we didn't get redistricted
> > every
> > > year or two.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SL Grad Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > So how has SL been for the new students who
> > > > decided to go along with the redistricting?
>
> > > Any
> > > > feedback?
> >
> > Please explain. Why do would kids go to SL for
> > sports? And to Oakton/Westfield/Herndon for
> math
> > and science?
>
> Ok, that response was from a second-hand parent
> who's nose sticks between the window blinds when
> kids walk up and down the street. You're an SL
> Grad why don't you stop into the school and ask
> real life people yourself or better yet answer
> your own question.

???? Why the hostility? Clearly I am missing somethng here...

FM Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Grad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please explain. Why do would kids go to SL for
> > sports? And to Oakton/Westfield/Herndon for
> math
> > and science?
>
> I only know a couple of kids that pupil placed out
> of SL from FM and from what I know it's usually
> been because a sibling goes to Oakton. I'm sure
> there are a few FM kids that placed out for AP
> math/science classes but I don't know very many.
>
> On the sports side, I know a kid who went out for
> the SL freshman football team and said there were
> 40 kids that signed up for it, up from 27 the
> prior year. Meanwhile, over at Oakton 80 kids
> tried out for freshman football so you'd have to
> have some pretty mad skills to even get noticed
> there. The SL freshman football team actually won
> most of their games too, maybe future football
> seasons there won't be so depressing in the
> future.

Yeah that would be nice to see more involvement in sports. We had some really good teams and some great athletes back when I was there... but I remember some of the coaches weren't the best... for example I remember one of our Freshman football coaches was a janitor at the school and he got arrested for selling drugs to kids...

It would also be really good to see some improved academics, particularly in the K-8 classes that feed to SL.

South Lakes is a smaller school so there are fewer kids competing for slots on teams.

Herndon, Oakton, and Westfield have AP instead of IB.





SL Grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Please explain. Why do would kids go to SL for
> sports? And to Oakton/Westfield/Herndon for math
> and science?

Oh boy. Here we go. IB is not "liberal arts" and AP is not "science." Different approaches, both excellent programs. Kids from both go to MIT, CalTech, RIT, UVA, Princeton, RPT, etc. etc. and excel in physics, math, biology, chemistry, engineering, you name the science. This ridiculous myth about one being "better" than the other based on content has to stop.

SEE FOR YOURSELF. Go to the schools and interview teachers and principals. Find out the differences. Don't rely on hearsay from parents who really don't know the difference. (Most parents have no clue what their AP kids are really learning anyway. Or IB for that matter. They just kinda look at homework now and then and try to conjure up their own knowledge, get a gander at talk-to-teacher nights, and mostly "hear" things and pass them on. Let's face it.)

Bottom line is that it's the teaching (competent, creative, supportive, collaborative) and atmosphere (welcoming, positive, supportive of parents, treats kids like young adults, inclusive) at a school. Teaching and atmosphere excellent = program doesn't matter as long as it has different levels (reg, honors, advanced) for different abilities.

Sorry pal

IB is crap...a bunch of navel gazing in the liberal arts, and 'calculus for dummies' in the math. The whole program is based on a Euro-centric post-WWII secular philosophy born of the physical and moral devastation in Europe. World peace through education...bah. That is for losers. How about world domination through education! Do you think China and Russia are pumping their kids full of math for world peace? Screw old Europe and the peaceniks. If we want postpone the fall of the American empire, we need to focus on American educational standards and philosophies. IB is like the World Court, another NGO intiative out of Europe designed to keep the US from building or maintaining its lead.

Closer to home, the propaganda that you learn how to write only in IB is also crap...kids in AP schools write just as much, just not in their AP exams. Do you think FCPS, as dumb as they are, would tolerate 90% of the high schools graduating kids who cannot think and write critically.

Also, the propaganda that only IB fosters inter-disciplinary thinking is also crap. All the AP schools (as well as middle schools) do cross-teaching in English/history. All coordinate between math and science. All the propaganda about IB is just that...propaganda.

And just because Butler is a nice guy a SLHS is nothing. He is already angling for his next assignment. Does anyone think he'll be there for another 2 years? And if he believed in the program, he'd put his own kid in it. How could a principal prevent his own kid from learning how to write and think critically. Fact is...he doesn't prevent her. I hear she is in an AP school and doing great.

If people we allowed to vote, you'd see 20 kids/year at SLHS in IB, and the rest in AP or regular education.

Excellent last couple of posts - please do continue to educate us on this very important topic.

By the way, isn't Copygirl now a grandmother of four living in Fort Myers?

Fairfax CAPS recently published information on the net movement of students (pupil placements) among the schools other than TJ.

Interesting stats:

Schools with net in-placements:

Lake Braddock +56
West Potomac +55
Oakton +53
Madison +49
Marshall +43
Robinson +39
Edison +36
West Springfield +34
McLean +29
Stuart +28
Woodson +21
Westfield +5

Schools with net out-placements

Chantilly -2
Langley -14
Herndon -23
Centreville -39
Fairfax -30
Hayfield -33
Annandale -34
South County -37
Mount Vernon -41
Lee -54
Falls Church -68
South Lakes -85

These numbers presumably reflect factors such as the perceived quality of the school relative to its neighboring schools, whether the school offers programs not found at neighboring schools and, yes, resistance to redistrictings.

As usual, south lakes is 'top of the class' with people doing anything they can to escape the sub-standard education.

I don't know what the data was in prior years, so I don't know if the phrase "As usual" is appropriate.

What the data gathered by CAPS showed was large very large out-placements to Madison and Oakton, two of the schools involved in last year's redistricting. The transfers between South Lakes and Westfield appear to have been roughly comparable, and Herndon was a net exporter of students to South Lakes.

Given the controversy over last year's redistricting, the South Lakes numbers this year don't surprise me.

To me, the most interesting schools are Robinson, Lake Braddock and Falls Church. The Lake Braddock and Robinson numbers are interesting because they suggest that students will continue to gravitate to highly-regarded schools even if they have very large student bodies. The Falls Church numbers indicate that parents and students do not necessarily prefer AP schools: Falls Church (AP) had large outplacements to Marshall (IB), as well as to Stuart (also IB) and Woodson (AP).

Stat Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The transfers between South Lakes
> and Westfield appear to have been roughly
> comparable

This is an artifact of FCPS AP outplacement policy. Due to "distance," the designated AP HS for NE Floris was Herndon last year. NE Floris was not permitted AP outplace to Westfield even though:

1) It takes less time to get to Westfield than to Herndon (or South Lakes for that matter),
2) No Floris kids have ever been in any classes with any Herndon kids, and
3) The rest of Floris goes to Westfield.

Most of the small number of NE Floris kids who were permitted to transfer from SL to Westfield are on the sibling exception created by the principals after the redistricting.

I thought Fairfax County Public schools were suppose to be one of the best in Northern Va. My child has been bullied a great deal at school, and when we took the problem to the school, they tried to make it look like my child was the problem. It's all about the school protecting themselves and keeping the numbers down just to make the school look good. They don't seem to care at all about our children

Is your kid a real jerk? Does he have any friends? Do other kids like him? Do any adults like him? Or have you heard from others that he is rude, bratty, a jerk? I bet he's not Mr. Popular with anyone, adults or kids.

Often kids who are picked on are treated that way because they are brats, and don't know how to act. The other kids teach them how to behave, something their parents have neglected to do.

You could always put your kid in another school, where he's likely to have the same experience again, or you could teach how to get along better with others. If he doesn't eventually learn that, he's going to be just as miserable as an adult as he is.

Of course I could be wrong, he could be a happy, wonderful, well mannered, very popular, very fun, kid who has been loved by everyone he encounters, until now. But I'm betting he's not.

Stop spoiling your kid. Stop letting him be a spoiled brat. You aren't helping him.

Gatehouse II is Back!


Dale and the School Board Want to Rush Approval of New Administrative Building Without Public Input

Superintendent Dale and the School Board are back asking the Board of Supervisors to approve borrowing $100 million to buy a new administrative office building. They want final approval by February 23 with no meaningful opportunity for public input. To date, almost all discussions of this proposal by the School Board and the Board of Supervisors have been held in closed sessions and there have been no public hearings. The Board of Supervisors can vote to hold a public hearing before a final vote to give citizens a real opportunity to provide input.

The Purchase Would Divert Financing Resources that Could be Used to Build or Renovate Schools

Dr. Dale and the School Board continue to claim that no money will be taken away from schools or students as a result of this proposal, but the fact is, the resources that would be used to finance the purchase of this building could be used to renovate and construct schools. The Economic Development Authority (EDA) bonds that would be used for this purchase would be counted against the county's borrowing limit and, accordingly, would reduce the available financing capacity for building or renovating schools. Further, these same EDA bonds could be used for school construction or renovation instead of an administrative office building. Given the thousands of students attending class in trailers throughout Fairfax County and the critical need for renovations in many of our schools, utilizing our financing resources to purchase an administrative building is absolutely the wrong priority and does not serve the interests of our students.

The Purchase Relies on the Same Type of Fiscally Irresponsible Behavior that has Caused the Current Economic Crisis

Dr. Dale and the School Board claim that actual cash savings from the initial three years can be used to address the current budget challenges, but they fail to mention that these "actual cash savings" disappear beginning in FY 2013 when the payments on the debt commence. Payments on the EDA bonds will come out of the school operating budget and, accordingly, will divert money from our schools and students. Moreover, the proposal is based substantially on assumed cost savings over a 30-year period that may not be actually realized--for instance, a substantial majority of the promised savings from the Gatehouse I office building the School Board purchased 5 years ago never materialized. In essence, Dr. Dale and the School Board propose to borrow $100 million (and to incur tens of millions in additional interest expense) in exchange for anticipated short term savings that, even if they materialize, will disappear once payments on the debt kick in. This is exactly the type of fiscally irresponsible behavior that has helped caused the current financial and economic crisis.

They Have Not Looked at Alternatives for Consolidating Administrative Office Space

Consolidating administrative space is a worthy goal, but FCPS has only looked at buy vs. build. They have not done an analysis of consolidation opportunities through leasing (in a market that would be very favorable) or through reconfiguring or renovating existing space to be utilized more efficiently. These alternatives could provide opportunities for consolidation that would be more fiscally responsible than borrowing $100 million.


Please contact your Supervisor and urge them to OPPOSE THIS PROPOSAL or, at a minimum, VOTE TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING before a final vote. For information about how to contact your Supervisor, you can go to www.fairfaxcounty.gov/government/board/

Please go to www.fairfaxcaps.org for more information.

Upset parent, I'm sorry to read about your child being bullied. Your experience here is unfortunately the way FCPS handles these things. You assessed it exactly right. They blame the victim and not the perpetrator.

Get the FCPS Student's Rights and Responsibilities handbook and look up the sections about bullying. It states very clearly what is not acceptable. Then state very clearly to the principal that if they don't handle this situation to YOUR absolute satisfaction, you will file and complaint or assault charges against the offending student with the Fairfax County Police Department.

Are you down by Mount Vernon/Fort Hunt/GW Parkway by chance? That area has the most miserable white bullies (both child and adult) I've ever encountered.

Kids are NOT picked on because *they* are brats. Other students who are brats and have low self-esteem pick on people who are different from them. Around here, being different is practically a crime.

That's why we'll be moving out of this region. It's rather toxic.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stat Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The transfers between South Lakes
> > and Westfield appear to have been roughly
> > comparable
>
> This is an artifact of FCPS AP outplacement
> policy. Due to "distance," the designated AP HS
> for NE Floris was Herndon last year. NE Floris
> was not permitted AP outplace to Westfield even
> though:
>
> 1) It takes less time to get to Westfield than to
> Herndon (or South Lakes for that matter),
> 2) No Floris kids have ever been in any classes
> with any Herndon kids, and
> 3) The rest of Floris goes to Westfield.
>
> Most of the small number of NE Floris kids who
> were permitted to transfer from SL to Westfield
> are on the sibling exception created by the
> principals after the redistricting.

Westfield Dad - It makes sense that the transfer data also reflects the constraints that FCPS put on transfers in the first place.

One of the facts that interested me was that, at least when permitted, students transfer in significant numbers to Lake Braddock and Robinson - two of the county's larger high schools. This raises a question as to why the School Board made reducing the size of other large schools such as Westfield and Chantilly a priority in the past.

If you haven't looked at the CAPS data (it's part of a presentation on the respective merits of AP and IB programs), it's quite interesting. It shows how a school doesn't necessarily have to be considered great to receive large numbers of transfers; it just has to be considered better than its neighbors.

Here's the boundary for Langley H.S.:

http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/langleyhs.pdf


If the Langley students who live on the far western edge of Fairfax County attended the high school closer to their homes (like Herndon H.S.), they would have more time in the morning. No schedule change required.

Guster, it's amazing to hear that this is going on in our schools. I have spoken to principals, staff members, and other admin staff about the bullying. My sister works for a school system in another district and she sees how this sort of thing happens alot. As far as any kid being a jerk or brat, that gives no one any right to assault anothter human being. Again, as I said, FCPS have an image that they feel they should protect. They are the first to sweep things under the rug. I have seen this happen and unfortuantley, it is our children who suffer. I feel they would rather keep the perpetrators in the school, instead of suspending or taking action, which will bring their numbers down. FCPS are not any better than any other schools in other counties. This is actually happening in the middle-upper class neighborhood school in Springfield.

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the boundary for Langley H.S.:
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/langleyhs.
> pdf
>
>
> If the Langley students who live on the far
> western edge of Fairfax County attended the high
> school closer to their homes (like Herndon H.S.),
> they would have more time in the morning. No
> schedule change required.

Western Langley was "discussed" during last year's South Lakes boundary study:
- the expense of expanding Langley,
- the CIP's statement that no adjacent schools had capacity in justifying its expansion, and
- the expense of busing those kids.

SB's rationale for not including them -

Janie protects her own.

My children will be starting South County Secondary school in the fall.
Can anyone give any input about the school. I have pulled up their website, but I do know that a lot of things schools do not report(number of fights, weapons, serious incidents) I have also gotten a few reports from other parents, some good and some bad. I just want to make sure about our decision.

lmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My children will be starting South County
> Secondary school in the fall.
> Can anyone give any input about the school. I
> have pulled up their website, but I do know that a
> lot of things schools do not report(number of
> fights, weapons, serious incidents) I have also
> gotten a few reports from other parents, some good
> and some bad. I just want to make sure about our
> decision.

Sex and drugs in the bathrooms.

hope south county middle has a better staff than south county secondary

Stat Man Wrote:

>
> One of the facts that interested me was that, at
> least when permitted, students transfer in
> significant numbers to Lake Braddock and Robinson
> - two of the county's larger high schools. This
> raises a question as to why the School Board made
> reducing the size of other large schools such as
> Westfield and Chantilly a priority in the past.
>

The primary reason for the study was South Lakes, the size of the other schools in the study was the excuse for selecting them. South Lakes was just completing its remodeling. Stu wanted South Lakes to be restored to its former glory. That just wasn't possible without adding some upper middle class kids.

On the reason for size, couple things -

1) I saw some SB meeting notes on this, but I can't find them - When the SB "reaffirmed" the 2000 max new HS size policy (that they hadn't been following...) Staff asked what it meant for existing schools given the CIP impacts on both total capacity and capacity at specific schools with associated costs of building new schools if they really meant it. I didn't see any answer to Staff's question.

2) The study underlying the 2000 capacity was done about 25 years ago before the policy was first put into effect. The rationale at the time was that 2000 allowed complete programs at the schools and was a manageable size. I think it's actually a reasonable basis to determine target size, but it's unclear to me that 2000 is actually sufficient given the difficulty even Westfield has offering certain classes for the high performers. Note that one of the schools discussed during the Boundary Study as an excellent school is Montgomery Blair in MOCO. When they replaced the old building, MOCO wanted to decrease its size ~ Westfield's, but decided not to mess with what worked.

3) When the SB selected the schools for the SL Boundary Study, both Westfield and Chantilly were not only large, they were *above* their then stated capacities, but by the time the CIP came out in the Fall, Westfield was projected to be significantly under capacity in the out years and, by the vote, was already under capacity. (N.B. I said then stated capacities since the Staff had a study done last year of the capacities of all the HSes and, in the process, lowered Westfield's from 3100 to about 2800.)

4) With the new CIP, the SB needed a new excuse for keeping Westfield in the study, and had their conveniently reaffirmed (though weakened...) 2000 max to rely on. The anti's pointed out that the 2000 max applied to new schools, not existing schools, but the SB didn't care cause all they really cared about was adding kids to South Lakes.

5) Part of the CAPS lawsuit was on the size issue and the arbitrariness of the SB's applying a policy that clearly only applied to new construction to existing schools, but the Court didn't care.

>
> If you haven't looked at the CAPS data (it's part
> of a presentation on the respective merits of AP
> and IB programs), it's quite interesting. It
> shows how a school doesn't necessarily have to be
> considered great to receive large numbers of
> transfers; it just has to be considered better
> than its neighbors.

I've seen it & I agree, modulo the transfer policy - which includes restrictions decided each spring based on available capacity at each school. It's going to be interesting to see the effect of the new capacity numbers on transfers this spring...

Back to your Herndon/South Lakes transfer discussion. I have heard rumors that, with the redistricting, North Restonites, who didn't want anything to do with South Lakes during the Boundary Study, are reconsidering whether they might now actually prefer sending their kiddies to South Lakes rather than to Herndon. The transfer numbers you cited support the rumors.

Crap detector has put out some interesting points in a rather crude way. What is this philosophy thing all about? Why bother with IB? If folks wanted more writing, why not just mandate 2 years of writing,,,,one year of fiction writing and one year of non-fiction/technical writing. Would be a lot cheaper than all this IBO training etc etc. Same for external assessments...why not just do it between schools in the county? Is there really a lot to be gained by sending papers all the way to France or, worse yet, Massachusetts?

Also, I like the idea of voting. It is possible that the SL PTA and the SB is afraid to let folks vote. Given how few kids actually get the IB diploma, there may not be such a demand.

Just my thoughts.




Crap detector Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry pal
>
> IB is crap...a bunch of navel gazing in the
> liberal arts, and 'calculus for dummies' in the
> math. The whole program is based on a
> Euro-centric post-WWII secular philosophy born of
> the physical and moral devastation in Europe.
> World peace through education...bah. That is for
> losers. How about world domination through
> education! Do you think China and Russia are
> pumping their kids full of math for world peace?
> Screw old Europe and the peaceniks. If we want
> postpone the fall of the American empire, we need
> to focus on American educational standards and
> philosophies. IB is like the World Court, another
> NGO intiative out of Europe designed to keep the
> US from building or maintaining its lead.
>
> Closer to home, the propaganda that you learn how
> to write only in IB is also crap...kids in AP
> schools write just as much, just not in their AP
> exams. Do you think FCPS, as dumb as they are,
> would tolerate 90% of the high schools graduating
> kids who cannot think and write critically.
>
> Also, the propaganda that only IB fosters
> inter-disciplinary thinking is also crap. All the
> AP schools (as well as middle schools) do
> cross-teaching in English/history. All coordinate
> between math and science. All the propaganda
> about IB is just that...propaganda.
>
> And just because Butler is a nice guy a SLHS is
> nothing. He is already angling for his next
> assignment. Does anyone think he'll be there for
> another 2 years? And if he believed in the
> program, he'd put his own kid in it. How could a
> principal prevent his own kid from learning how to
> write and think critically. Fact is...he doesn't
> prevent her. I hear she is in an AP school and
> doing great.
>
> If people we allowed to vote, you'd see 20
> kids/year at SLHS in IB, and the rest in AP or
> regular education.

Welllll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crap detector has put out some interesting points
> in a rather crude way. What is this philosophy
> thing all about? Why bother with IB? If folks
> wanted more writing, why not just mandate 2 years
> of writing,,,,one year of fiction writing and one
> year of non-fiction/technical writing. Would be a
> lot cheaper than all this IBO training etc etc.
> Same for external assessments...why not just do it
> between schools in the county? Is there really a
> lot to be gained by sending papers all the way to
> France or, worse yet, Massachusetts?
>
> Also, I like the idea of voting. It is possible
> that the SL PTA and the SB is afraid to let folks
> vote. Given how few kids actually get the IB
> diploma, there may not be such a demand.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
>
>
>
> Crap detector Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry pal
> >
> > IB is crap...a bunch of navel gazing in the
> > liberal arts, and 'calculus for dummies' in the
> > math. The whole program is based on a
> > Euro-centric post-WWII secular philosophy born
> of
> > the physical and moral devastation in Europe.
> > World peace through education...bah. That is
> for
> > losers. How about world domination through
> > education! Do you think China and Russia are
> > pumping their kids full of math for world peace?
>
> > Screw old Europe and the peaceniks. If we want
> > postpone the fall of the American empire, we
> need
> > to focus on American educational standards and
> > philosophies. IB is like the World Court,
> another
> > NGO intiative out of Europe designed to keep
> the
> > US from building or maintaining its lead.
> >
> > Closer to home, the propaganda that you learn
> how
> > to write only in IB is also crap...kids in AP
> > schools write just as much, just not in their
> AP
> > exams. Do you think FCPS, as dumb as they are,
> > would tolerate 90% of the high schools
> graduating
> > kids who cannot think and write critically.
> >
> > Also, the propaganda that only IB fosters
> > inter-disciplinary thinking is also crap. All
> the
> > AP schools (as well as middle schools) do
> > cross-teaching in English/history. All
> coordinate
> > between math and science. All the propaganda
> > about IB is just that...propaganda.
> >
> > And just because Butler is a nice guy a SLHS is
> > nothing. He is already angling for his next
> > assignment. Does anyone think he'll be there
> for
> > another 2 years? And if he believed in the
> > program, he'd put his own kid in it. How could
> a
> > principal prevent his own kid from learning how
> to
> > write and think critically. Fact is...he
> doesn't
> > prevent her. I hear she is in an AP school and
> > doing great.
> >
> > If people we allowed to vote, you'd see 20
> > kids/year at SLHS in IB, and the rest in AP or
> > regular education.


Well suggests that students/parents should have the school mandate more writing if they want more writing. This says that you might be unaware that the 2 year IB English program (at SL and elsewhere) is 2 years (4 semesters) of English Lit. Now, I love English Lit, but it should be only a portion or even an elective of the English program. Most HS students need more composition and grammar. While it's great to read and quote the classics, those are nice to haves. For a program that's supposed to be all about writing, I can't imagine why the English program focuses primarily on Lit. Must be a European thing.

The 2 year IB English program is not all English lit classics...it includes a few other things. AP English Lit is 1 year of mainly English lit classics etc. AP Language is 1 year of fiction and non-fiction writing. AP is so much more rational than IB.

But writing is not only in English. One of the supposed advantages of IB is that all class write papers...math and PE too. (Seems stupid to me, but the Europeans would rather smoke cigarettes and talk about sports, rather than play them).

Anyway, if SB wants kids to write more in history, PE, math etc, they could just mandate that, without getting tangled up in the IBO nonsense.



Huh? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welllll Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crap detector has put out some interesting
> points
> > in a rather crude way. What is this philosophy
> > thing all about? Why bother with IB? If folks
> > wanted more writing, why not just mandate 2
> years
> > of writing,,,,one year of fiction writing and
> one
> > year of non-fiction/technical writing. Would be
> a
> > lot cheaper than all this IBO training etc etc.
>
> > Same for external assessments...why not just do
> it
> > between schools in the county? Is there really
> a
> > lot to be gained by sending papers all the way
> to
> > France or, worse yet, Massachusetts?
> >
> > Also, I like the idea of voting. It is
> possible
> > that the SL PTA and the SB is afraid to let
> folks
> > vote. Given how few kids actually get the IB
> > diploma, there may not be such a demand.
> >
> > Just my thoughts.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Crap detector Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sorry pal
> > >
> > > IB is crap...a bunch of navel gazing in the
> > > liberal arts, and 'calculus for dummies' in
> the
> > > math. The whole program is based on a
> > > Euro-centric post-WWII secular philosophy
> born
> > of
> > > the physical and moral devastation in Europe.
>
> > > World peace through education...bah. That is
> > for
> > > losers. How about world domination through
> > > education! Do you think China and Russia are
> > > pumping their kids full of math for world
> peace?
> >
> > > Screw old Europe and the peaceniks. If we
> want
> > > postpone the fall of the American empire, we
> > need
> > > to focus on American educational standards
> and
> > > philosophies. IB is like the World Court,
> > another
> > > NGO intiative out of Europe designed to keep
> > the
> > > US from building or maintaining its lead.
> > >
> > > Closer to home, the propaganda that you learn
> > how
> > > to write only in IB is also crap...kids in AP
> > > schools write just as much, just not in their
> > AP
> > > exams. Do you think FCPS, as dumb as they
> are,
> > > would tolerate 90% of the high schools
> > graduating
> > > kids who cannot think and write critically.
> > >
> > > Also, the propaganda that only IB fosters
> > > inter-disciplinary thinking is also crap.
> All
> > the
> > > AP schools (as well as middle schools) do
> > > cross-teaching in English/history. All
> > coordinate
> > > between math and science. All the propaganda
> > > about IB is just that...propaganda.
> > >
> > > And just because Butler is a nice guy a SLHS
> is
> > > nothing. He is already angling for his next
> > > assignment. Does anyone think he'll be there
> > for
> > > another 2 years? And if he believed in the
> > > program, he'd put his own kid in it. How
> could
> > a
> > > principal prevent his own kid from learning
> how
> > to
> > > write and think critically. Fact is...he
> > doesn't
> > > prevent her. I hear she is in an AP school
> and
> > > doing great.
> > >
> > > If people we allowed to vote, you'd see 20
> > > kids/year at SLHS in IB, and the rest in AP
> or
> > > regular education.
>
>
> Well suggests that students/parents should have
> the school mandate more writing if they want more
> writing. This says that you might be unaware that
> the 2 year IB English program (at SL and
> elsewhere) is 2 years (4 semesters) of English
> Lit. Now, I love English Lit, but it should be
> only a portion or even an elective of the English
> program. Most HS students need more composition
> and grammar. While it's great to read and quote
> the classics, those are nice to haves. For a
> program that's supposed to be all about writing, I
> can't imagine why the English program focuses
> primarily on Lit. Must be a European thing.

A news release from FCPS was just e-mailed to me regarding the approved Coppermine boundaries. I tried to click on the link showing the approved boundaries but it doesn't work. What boundaries were approved?

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A news release from FCPS was just e-mailed to me
> regarding the approved Coppermine boundaries. I
> tried to click on the link showing the approved
> boundaries but it doesn't work. What boundaries
> were approved?


The final staff recommendation was approved. The one where "NE Floris" stays put, McNair becomes GT center and the Bradley Farm area off West Ox moves to Oak Hill. The link worked last Friday.

YAY!!! Finally Floris gets a break! It's about time!

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YAY!!! Finally Floris gets a break! It's about
> time!


Well, all of Floris may not agree. There are some who will be pulled out to go to Oak Hill. Not sure if that grouped cared or not. But what a mixed up group that will be--the only kids from Oak Hill going to Rachel Carson and then Westfield. The group that has the Floris, RC, WHS path is now even smaller. No ever lasting friendships with the Floris crowd anymore. But if you are in the area that was plucked to go to South Lakes, you are probably pretty pleased. Know I am.

I have barely been watching this, so sorry for a dumb question...why would most SL draftees in Floris be happy? What would have been worse than the current situation? Again, sorry not to understand...am not a Floris person but am interested.

Also, as you know, nothing stops the SB from further HS reboundary efforts...I know of nothing on the horizon, but I can imaginr scenario where the remaining WFHS kids from Floris get sent to Herndon or somewhere else...the little bit left at WFHS can be characterized as an "island" in view of all the non-residential land that separates Floris from WFHS.





Florrie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > YAY!!! Finally Floris gets a break! It's about
> > time!
>
>
> Well, all of Floris may not agree. There are some
> who will be pulled out to go to Oak Hill. Not
> sure if that grouped cared or not. But what a
> mixed up group that will be--the only kids from
> Oak Hill going to Rachel Carson and then
> Westfield. The group that has the Floris, RC, WHS
> path is now even smaller. No ever lasting
> friendships with the Floris crowd anymore. But if
> you are in the area that was plucked to go to
> South Lakes, you are probably pretty pleased.
> Know I am.

From:

SHARON BULOVA
CHAIRMAN

Feb. 23, 2009

Statement by Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Chairman Sharon Bulova on Gatehouse II

Exercising the Chairman’s prerogative, I am making a change to our agenda for today’s meeting. Listed on the agenda is a 2:45 p.m. briefing by the Superintendent of Schools on a proposal to purchase “Gatehouse II”, as part of a consolidation plan for School Administration.

I have removed this briefing from our agenda. Further, I am moving that we discontinue any further consideration of the purchase of Gatehouse II.
This proposal was first brought to our Board in October of last year. Following discussion in Closed Session of the potential acquisition, I made a motion to reject the proposal. Members of our board were concerned about a number of aspects of the proposal, including the relatively narrow margin of savings expected over the long term.

At our Board’s last meeting, we were briefed once again, this time on an amended proposal. No action was taken at that time and direction was given for the Schools to do outreach into the community regarding the new proposal. Some outreach has taken place. Some community groups (such as the Chamber of Commerce) have expressed support, others (such as the FEA) neutrality, and others opposition.

While the business plan for Gatehouse II has a number of positive features, including the opportunity to return some school facilities back into classrooms, I have concerns, which my colleagues have also expressed, that an acquisition of an administrative building at this time, while we are struggling with a challenging budget and a volatile and unstable economy, is not in our best interest.

Over the weekend, I called School Board Chairman Dan Stork and Superintendent Jack Dale to let them know I thought it best that the Schools discontinue all efforts to acquire Gatehouse and I move now that our Board communicate this position to The Fairfax County School Board.
###

First smart democrat I have heard in ages....thank goodness (assuming this is not some joke played on the FFU).


FYI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From:
>
> SHARON BULOVA
> CHAIRMAN
>
> Feb. 23, 2009
>
> Statement by Fairfax County Board of Supervisors
> Chairman Sharon Bulova on Gatehouse II
>
> Exercising the Chairman’s prerogative, I am making
> a change to our agenda for today’s meeting. Listed
> on the agenda is a 2:45 p.m. briefing by the
> Superintendent of Schools on a proposal to
> purchase “Gatehouse II”, as part of a
> consolidation plan for School Administration.
>
> I have removed this briefing from our agenda.
> Further, I am moving that we discontinue any
> further consideration of the purchase of Gatehouse
> II.
> This proposal was first brought to our Board in
> October of last year. Following discussion in
> Closed Session of the potential acquisition, I
> made a motion to reject the proposal. Members of
> our board were concerned about a number of aspects
> of the proposal, including the relatively narrow
> margin of savings expected over the long term.
>
> At our Board’s last meeting, we were briefed once
> again, this time on an amended proposal. No action
> was taken at that time and direction was given for
> the Schools to do outreach into the community
> regarding the new proposal. Some outreach has
> taken place. Some community groups (such as the
> Chamber of Commerce) have expressed support,
> others (such as the FEA) neutrality, and others
> opposition.
>
> While the business plan for Gatehouse II has a
> number of positive features, including the
> opportunity to return some school facilities back
> into classrooms, I have concerns, which my
> colleagues have also expressed, that an
> acquisition of an administrative building at this
> time, while we are struggling with a challenging
> budget and a volatile and unstable economy, is not
> in our best interest.
>
> Over the weekend, I called School Board Chairman
> Dan Stork and Superintendent Jack Dale to let them
> know I thought it best that the Schools
> discontinue all efforts to acquire Gatehouse and I
> move now that our Board communicate this position
> to The Fairfax County School Board.
> ###

No joke, I was there.


Yay!? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First smart democrat I have heard in ages....thank
> goodness (assuming this is not some joke played on
> the FFU).
>
>
> FYI Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From:
> >
> > SHARON BULOVA
> > CHAIRMAN
> >
> > Feb. 23, 2009
> >
> > Statement by Fairfax County Board of
> Supervisors
> > Chairman Sharon Bulova on Gatehouse II
> >
> > Exercising the Chairman’s prerogative, I am
> making
> > a change to our agenda for today’s meeting.
> Listed
> > on the agenda is a 2:45 p.m. briefing by the
> > Superintendent of Schools on a proposal to
> > purchase “Gatehouse II”, as part of a
> > consolidation plan for School Administration.
> >
> > I have removed this briefing from our agenda.
> > Further, I am moving that we discontinue any
> > further consideration of the purchase of
> Gatehouse
> > II.
> > This proposal was first brought to our Board in
> > October of last year. Following discussion in
> > Closed Session of the potential acquisition, I
> > made a motion to reject the proposal. Members
> of
> > our board were concerned about a number of
> aspects
> > of the proposal, including the relatively
> narrow
> > margin of savings expected over the long term.
> >
> > At our Board’s last meeting, we were briefed
> once
> > again, this time on an amended proposal. No
> action
> > was taken at that time and direction was given
> for
> > the Schools to do outreach into the community
> > regarding the new proposal. Some outreach has
> > taken place. Some community groups (such as the
> > Chamber of Commerce) have expressed support,
> > others (such as the FEA) neutrality, and others
> > opposition.
> >
> > While the business plan for Gatehouse II has a
> > number of positive features, including the
> > opportunity to return some school facilities
> back
> > into classrooms, I have concerns, which my
> > colleagues have also expressed, that an
> > acquisition of an administrative building at
> this
> > time, while we are struggling with a
> challenging
> > budget and a volatile and unstable economy, is
> not
> > in our best interest.
> >
> > Over the weekend, I called School Board
> Chairman
> > Dan Stork and Superintendent Jack Dale to let
> them
> > know I thought it best that the Schools
> > discontinue all efforts to acquire Gatehouse and
> I
> > move now that our Board communicate this
> position
> > to The Fairfax County School Board.
> > ###

pls clarify Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have barely been watching this, so sorry for a
> dumb question...why would most SL draftees in
> Floris be happy? What would have been worse than
> the current situation? Again, sorry not to
> understand...am not a Floris person but am
> interested.
>
> Also, as you know, nothing stops the SB from
> further HS reboundary efforts...I know of nothing
> on the horizon, but I can imaginr scenario where
> the remaining WFHS kids from Floris get sent to
> Herndon or somewhere else...the little bit left at
> WFHS can be characterized as an "island" in view
> of all the non-residential land that separates
> Floris from WFHS.
>
>
>
>
>
> Florrie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Floris Mom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > YAY!!! Finally Floris gets a break! It's
> about
> > > time!
> >
> >
> > Well, all of Floris may not agree. There are
> some
> > who will be pulled out to go to Oak Hill. Not
> > sure if that grouped cared or not. But what a
> > mixed up group that will be--the only kids from
> > Oak Hill going to Rachel Carson and then
> > Westfield. The group that has the Floris, RC,
> WHS
> > path is now even smaller. No ever lasting
> > friendships with the Floris crowd anymore. But
> if
> > you are in the area that was plucked to go to
> > South Lakes, you are probably pretty pleased.
> > Know I am.


We are happy to be left alone this go round. Nothing more complicated than that.

F Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> We are happy to be left alone this go round.
> Nothing more complicated than that.


Like last year, Staff & the SB have shown what they think about the importance of community. There was no reasonable justification for moving the SE Floris kids to Oak Hill. It's a small group. There's about 15 kids per year from SE Floris who now will be going to Oak Hill. From Oak Hill, they will be the only kids from Oak Hill going Carson then Westfield.

Staff/SB are moving a community that's been part of Floris for 25 years to Oak Hill and splitting of our HOAs. The Floris community wanted Staff/SB to move numbers they included in the study from empty lots at Wall Road/EDS to Oak Hill instead of actual human beings.

So much for human beings.

I feel badly for the SE Floris community; however, we in NE Floris have already experienced the "joys" of redistricting to South Lakes. Another move for NE Floris to McNair would have been the last straw. That said, I think that the SB has really done a job on the Floris community over the past decade or so. Too bad; this is an old community rich in roots and history. It all started when they moved Meadow Hall, 1/2 of Bradley Farms and Monterey Estates to Fox Mill. NE Floris got the axe last year, and now SE Floris. Do we have a community left? When people ask me where I live I tell them the street name now, not the community of Floris. With the move to SL, I've been aligned to Reston (against my will). So has Frying Pan Park, once the gem of the Floris Community. The SB continues to set screwey illogical boundaries, particularly in this area. Why is it that Oak Hill is large enough to support its own zip code, and yet we don't have a high school? The ONLY answer to this continual madness is to build an Oak Hill High School. It's been needed for years.

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel badly for the SE Floris community; however,
> we in NE Floris have already experienced the
> "joys" of redistricting to South Lakes. Another
> move for NE Floris to McNair would have been the
> last straw. That said, I think that the SB has
> really done a job on the Floris community over the
> past decade or so. Too bad; this is an old
> community rich in roots and history. It all
> started when they moved Meadow Hall, 1/2 of
> Bradley Farms and Monterey Estates to Fox Mill.
> NE Floris got the axe last year, and now SE
> Floris. Do we have a community left? When people
> ask me where I live I tell them the street name
> now, not the community of Floris. With the move
> to SL, I've been aligned to Reston (against my
> will). So has Frying Pan Park, once the gem of the
> Floris Community. The SB continues to set screwey
> illogical boundaries, particularly in this area.
> Why is it that Oak Hill is large enough to support
> its own zip code, and yet we don't have a high
> school? The ONLY answer to this continual madness
> is to build an Oak Hill High School. It's been
> needed for years.

Sorry if Floris has been jerked around over the years. But - did your community complain that Westfield was too big when it was being built? It's very hard to see any need for an Oak Hill HS any time soon.

When Westfield was built I went to the town hall meetings to fight against that redistricting too. My oldest child graduated from Oakton. Even though it is far away, there was definitely a sense of community there, since all the kids from Franklin (this is pre-Carson) went there from out here. Westfield is closer, but there is no sense of community there for the Floris kids. The Herndon Island is a very small segment of the school. My kids have always felt alienated at Westfield. The vast majority of the kids come from Centerville. Yes, of course, the Floris community complained when we were moved out of Oakton to Westfield. Now we've been moved to SL, a Reston school. Where is my community? It doesn't exist.

Oops. Before I am corrected, Meadow Hall is still part of NE Floris.

And to Nice Try: When Westfield was first built there was never any talk about how large it was or was to become. It opened without overcrowding, trailers, etc. In fact, I think the SB reassigned Floris and McNair (the Herndon Island) from Oakton to Westfield to fill it up. It was a screwy bounday then and it continues to be more screwey. There are over 7 miles of non residential land (airport and commercial) between the Herndon Island and Westfield. We never belonged at Westfield, and we certainly don't belong at South Lakes. With the slice and dice approach that the SB has taken with regard to Floris, it continues to whittle down the size of the Herndon Island, causing the Herndon kids to feel even more alienated at Westfield. And the NE Floris kids to feel alienated at SL.

To relieve the so-called overcrowding at Westfield, the SB took out NE Floris only to keep in the still growing community of Coppermine. Does this make sense?
Somehow FCPS and the SB never get the population projections right.

There is still growth out here in Oak Hill. Coppermine is a perfect example. I stand by my belief that an Oak Hill High School is absolutely necessary. It's the only answer.

Looks like Floris kids will not be allowed to play Chantilly Youth Association lacrosse now (new players). Will baseball, soccer, and basketball be next?...Received the following from CYA:
--------
We need to validate the following information for CYA Lacrosse. Recently the league (Northern VA Youth Lacrosse League) changed how new players will be routed to the various youth programs. Each new player must join the club that is aligned with their high school pyramid. This is based on the address where the player resides. CYA is aligned to accept players that will attend Chantilly HS and Oakton HS. At league meetings, we stated our desire to include Westfield and South Lakes in the CYA pyramid since we have served these neighborhoods in the past. We were not successful in our effort. For the past two months we were asking the league for clarification on the rule while registration was ongoing. It is clear now that we can only accept NEW players from the Chantilly and Oakton High School pyramids. This change does NOT affect existing CYA players meaning those that have played for CYA Lacrosse prior to this season.
-----
I checked the NVYLL site and Floris kids are only eligible to play for Herndon or SYA (depending on whether your HS is Westfield or South Lakes...

Splitting our community even further...

Wow, the no-CYA thing is kind of a big deal. I would have to believe that would apply to all of their programs. Why would they pick and choose? Also, what is considered a new player? New to CYA? new to the particular sport?

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oops. Before I am corrected, Meadow Hall is still
> part of NE Floris.
>
> And to Nice Try: When Westfield was first built
> there was never any talk about how large it was or
> was to become. It opened without overcrowding,
> trailers, etc. In fact, I think the SB reassigned
> Floris and McNair (the Herndon Island) from Oakton
> to Westfield to fill it up. It was a screwy
> bounday then and it continues to be more screwey.
> There are over 7 miles of non residential land
> (airport and commercial) between the Herndon
> Island and Westfield. We never belonged at
> Westfield, and we certainly don't belong at South
> Lakes. With the slice and dice approach that the
> SB has taken with regard to Floris, it continues
> to whittle down the size of the Herndon Island,
> causing the Herndon kids to feel even more
> alienated at Westfield. And the NE Floris kids to
> feel alienated at SL.
>
> To relieve the so-called overcrowding at
> Westfield, the SB took out NE Floris only to keep
> in the still growing community of Coppermine. Does
> this make sense?
> Somehow FCPS and the SB never get the population
> projections right.
>
> There is still growth out here in Oak Hill.
> Coppermine is a perfect example. I stand by my
> belief that an Oak Hill High School is absolutely
> necessary. It's the only answer.

As I said, I am sympathetic to a community that feels like it's been a pawn in every recent redistricting that's taken place in the western part of the county.

I still don't see any compelling facilities-based argument for an Oak Hill High when Westfield is now projected to have excess capacity in future years, capacity was added to Langley (so it can continue to handle students from the western part of the county north of Route 7) and other boundaries could be withdrawn to take advantage of projected excess capacity in schools further east such as Woodson and Falls Church. Keep in mind also that there are older schools in other parts of the county that are drastically in need of renovation.

The SB has announced that it plans to launch a new redistricting study to relieve overcrowding at Annandale HS and Fort Belvoir ES at its 3/9 meeting. The Annandale HS redistricting was briefly discussed last year; at the time, the proposal floated was to send some students at Annandale to Falls Church and Stuart HS. It will be interesting to see whether any Annandale parents lobby to have their students sent to Woodson instead, now that FCPS has projected that Woodson will also have extra capacity by 2013-14.

Without an Oak Hill High School, the boundaries will continue to be gerrymandered in this Western part of the County for years to come, causing more problems and bitter feelings. Floris kids not eligible for CYA is just one example of problems these redistrictings cause. A "Dulles" high school has been discussed in the past by the School Board. That, in essence, would be the Oak Hill High School. It has been needed for 20 years. Just ask any of us who live in Oak Hill. We have either had to drive miles to Oakton High School, or be placed in schools which are not in our community. . .Westfield, a Centerville school, or South Lakes, a Reston school. All I know is that the SB has destroyed our community. We have kids now going to two different elementary schools and two different high schools. For those of you in the county that have a distinct pyramid of elementary, middle and high school, you are lucky. That is what it should be. That brings kids and families together, giving people that ever needed sense of continuity, familiarity, and support. We in Floris have lost all that thanks to the continual reshuffling by the SB. This is one of the few areas in Fairfax County where new growth is still occurring. Developers keep building and our infastructure can't handle it. We need new roads and new schools out here to accommodate the growth. Oak Hill High School needs to be built!

Nice Try Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As I said, I am sympathetic to a community that
> feels like it's been a pawn in every recent
> redistricting that's taken place in the western
> part of the county.
>
> I still don't see any compelling facilities-based
> argument for an Oak Hill High when Westfield is
> now projected to have excess capacity in future
> years, capacity was added to Langley (so it can
> continue to handle students from the western part
> of the county north of Route 7) and other
> boundaries could be withdrawn to take advantage of
> projected excess capacity in schools further east
> such as Woodson and Falls Church. Keep in mind
> also that there are older schools in other parts
> of the county that are drastically in need of
> renovation.

The reason we have these crazy boundaries is that the beltway HSes were built in the 50s when the population of the County was concentrated inside what's now... the beltway. Rather than wasting money renovating them, they really ought to close the worst of them & build new ones where the population is.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The reason we have these crazy boundaries is that
> the beltway HSes were built in the 50s when the
> population of the County was concentrated inside
> what's now... the beltway. Rather than wasting
> money renovating them, they really ought to close
> the worst of them & build new ones where the
> population is.

That would be an easier case to make if the older schools in poor condition had lousy reputations and were shedding students. If you look at the renovation schedule, however, what you find is that the high schools being renovated or currently scheduled for renovation generally have good reputations and stable or growing numbers of students. And, it's harder in the current environment to argue that the School Board will make a financial killing if it sells an inside-the-beltway property for commercial development.

Floris Mom - We are in a split feeder as well and I know it's quite frustrating when the School Board ignores repeated requests to try and find ways to keep more of the kids together. I just don't know how they turn the clock back now and fix the mess they created for the Floris area without doing more harm elsewhere.

The answer is a high school. Consolidate all of Oak Hill in one high school. That includes Floris, Fox Mill, Chantilly Highlands, McNair, Coppermine, Franklin Farm, could include all the neighborhoods down to 50. What a dynamite high school it would be. It would be balanced with higher and lower socio-economic kids. We would be with our neighbors and within our community. Oak Hill is not an out-lying area, which is what the SB keeps telling us. This is where the population is, where the jobs are. West Ox Road and Monroe are two-lane country roads which are now supporting commuters to jobs in Reston and the Dulles corridor. I invite the SB to come out here during rush hour and feel the congestion the way we do each and every day. We can barely get out of our neighborhoods. We are surrounded by some of the most congested roads in Fairfax county: 28, Fairfax County Parkway, the Toll Road and 50. Telling us we are being gerrymandered because we are outlying is absurd. Our roads and schools are over-taxed out here. There is absolutely no question that Oak Hill High School is needed and would solve many of the problems facing this area

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The answer is a high school. Consolidate all of
> Oak Hill in one high school. That includes Floris,
> Fox Mill, Chantilly Highlands, McNair, Coppermine,
> Franklin Farm, could include all the neighborhoods
> down to 50. What a dynamite high school it would
> be. It would be balanced with higher and lower
> socio-economic kids. We would be with our
> neighbors and within our community. Oak Hill is
> not an out-lying area, which is what the SB keeps
> telling us. This is where the population is,
> where the jobs are. West Ox Road and Monroe are
> two-lane country roads which are now supporting
> commuters to jobs in Reston and the Dulles
> corridor. I invite the SB to come out here during
> rush hour and feel the congestion the way we do
> each and every day. We can barely get out of our
> neighborhoods. We are surrounded by some of the
> most congested roads in Fairfax county: 28,
> Fairfax County Parkway, the Toll Road and 50.
> Telling us we are being gerrymandered because we
> are outlying is absurd. Our roads and schools are
> over-taxed out here. There is absolutely no
> question that Oak Hill High School is needed and
> would solve many of the problems facing this area

Right now, FCPS is projecting a total shortage of 430 seats by 2013-14 at Herndon, South Lakes, Oakton and Chantilly combined, and 333 surplus seats at Westfield. You're making a nice argument that a high school would fulfill a community need, but it doesn't seem as if the county now projecs the area high schools to be bursting at the seams.

So the only way you generate enough bodies to fill an Oak Hill High is to close another school, do a large-scale redistricting further east, and disrupt lots of other families' lives. I just don't see it happening unless you come up with real numbers and the cost savings to justify it.

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The answer is a high school. Consolidate all of
> Oak Hill in one high school. That includes Floris,
> Fox Mill, Chantilly Highlands, McNair, Coppermine,
> Franklin Farm, could include all the neighborhoods
> down to 50. What a dynamite high school it would
> be. It would be balanced with higher and lower
> socio-economic kids. We would be with our
> neighbors and within our community. Oak Hill is
> not an out-lying area, which is what the SB keeps
> telling us. This is where the population is,
> where the jobs are. West Ox Road and Monroe are
> two-lane country roads which are now supporting
> commuters to jobs in Reston and the Dulles
> corridor. I invite the SB to come out here during
> rush hour and feel the congestion the way we do
> each and every day. We can barely get out of our
> neighborhoods. We are surrounded by some of the
> most congested roads in Fairfax county: 28,
> Fairfax County Parkway, the Toll Road and 50.
> Telling us we are being gerrymandered because we
> are outlying is absurd. Our roads and schools are
> over-taxed out here. There is absolutely no
> question that Oak Hill High School is needed and
> would solve many of the problems facing this area

Right now, FCPS is projecting a total shortage of 430 seats by 2013-14 at Herndon, South Lakes, Oakton and Chantilly combined, and 333 surplus seats at Westfield. You're making a nice argument that a high school would fulfill a community need, but it doesn't seem as if the county now projects the area high schools to be bursting at the seams.

So the only way you generate enough bodies to fill an Oak Hill High is to close another school, do a large-scale redistricting further east, and disrupt lots of other families' lives. I just don't see it happening unless you come up with real numbers and the cost savings to justify it.

Floris Community...no more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like Floris kids will not be allowed to play
> Chantilly Youth Association lacrosse now (new
> players). Will baseball, soccer, and basketball be
> next?...Received the following from CYA:
> --------
> We need to validate the following information for
> CYA Lacrosse. Recently the league (Northern VA
> Youth Lacrosse League) changed how new players
> will be routed to the various youth programs. Each
> new player must join the club that is aligned with
> their high school pyramid. This is based on the
> address where the player resides. CYA is aligned
> to accept players that will attend Chantilly HS
> and Oakton HS. At league meetings, we stated our
> desire to include Westfield and South Lakes in the
> CYA pyramid since we have served these
> neighborhoods in the past. We were not successful
> in our effort. For the past two months we were
> asking the league for clarification on the rule
> while registration was ongoing. It is clear now
> that we can only accept NEW players from the
> Chantilly and Oakton High School pyramids. This
> change does NOT affect existing CYA players
> meaning those that have played for CYA Lacrosse
> prior to this season.
> -----
> I checked the NVYLL site and Floris kids are only
> eligible to play for Herndon or SYA (depending on
> whether your HS is Westfield or South Lakes...
>
> Splitting our community even further...


This information is no where to be found on the CYA website. How about you post something official before you start sobbing on the baord.

Nice Try Wrote:

>
> Right now, FCPS is projecting a total shortage of
> 430 seats by 2013-14 at Herndon, South Lakes,
> Oakton and Chantilly combined, and 333 surplus
> seats at Westfield.

We told those scuzballs not to split Floris, not to move NE Floris to South Lakes - that, USING THEIR NUMBERS, we'd fit at Westfield and that South Lakes was dangerously near capacity. Given their current projections, we're even more right. We'd fit at Westfield, even with this year's CIP's magic contraction of Westfield, and, even with the magic expansion of South Lakes, South Lakes is over capacity in the out years.

It's bad enough that Stu is a tool, but just why is it we pay Tistadt? His people were wrong about the original capacity requirement at Westfield, His people proposed a 2500 capacity school, despite the system's official policy requiring a 2000 maximum, His people told we taxpayers that the expansion of Westfield was for 600 kids, now it's officially 380 or so, he was quoted during the SL redistricting that he didn't trust his people's own numbers, so he'd move us to South Lakes, ...

That's 10s of Millions in screwups just in my little neighborhood. Where are the consequences?

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We told those scuzballs not to split Floris, not
> to move NE Floris to South Lakes - that, USING
> THEIR NUMBERS, we'd fit at Westfield and that
> South Lakes was dangerously near capacity. Given
> their current projections, we're even more right.
> We'd fit at Westfield, even with this year's CIP's
> magic contraction of Westfield, and, even with the
> magic expansion of South Lakes, South Lakes is
> over capacity in the out years.
>
> It's bad enough that Stu is a tool, but just why
> is it we pay Tistadt? His people were wrong about
> the original capacity requirement at Westfield,
> His people proposed a 2500 capacity school,
> despite the system's official policy requiring a
> 2000 maximum, His people told we taxpayers that
> the expansion of Westfield was for 600 kids, now
> it's officially 380 or so, he was quoted during
> the SL redistricting that he didn't trust his
> people's own numbers, so he'd move us to South
> Lakes, ...
>
> That's 10s of Millions in screwups just in my
> little neighborhood. Where are the consequences?

That's a very good question. It would be great if FCPS had a planning staff that was both competent and independent. I suspect that the School Board does not want one.

I just don't think the consequences should include closing an inside-the-beltway school in order to justify a new Oak Hill high school in the western part of the county. Right now, the county's projections actually show a net capacity deficit among the six inside-the-beltway high schools besides TJ (with projected over-enrollment at Annandale, Langley and Marshall exceeding the projected under-enrollment at Falls Church, Stuart and McLean by over 300 seats).

What happened to the severe budget problems? How can they justify building a school that isn't needed and then fuss that they don't have enough money to run the schools?

Nice Try Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's a very good question. It would be great if
> FCPS had a planning staff that was both competent
> and independent. I suspect that the School Board
> does not want one.

I think what you meant to write is, I'm sure the School Board doesn't want one...

>
> I just don't think the consequences should include
> closing an inside-the-beltway school in order to
> justify a new Oak Hill high school in the western
> part of the county. Right now, the county's
> projections actually show a net capacity deficit
> among the six inside-the-beltway high schools
> besides TJ (with projected over-enrollment at
> Annandale, Langley and Marshall exceeding the
> projected under-enrollment at Falls Church, Stuart
> and McLean by over 300 seats).

The reason there are the over enrollments is the elongated east-to-west districts that result from the locations that made sense in the 50's. A high percentage of the HSes are at the eastern edges of the districts. Langley is only the most egregious & most politically protected.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The reason there are the over enrollments is the
> elongated east-to-west districts that result from
> the locations that made sense in the 50's. A high
> percentage of the HSes are at the eastern edges of
> the districts. Langley is only the most egregious
> & most politically protected.

You may be right - which is why, if any Langley students are ever redistricted, they'll be sent to McLean, not Herndon or South Lakes.

Yes, Oakton was a perfect example of the elongated east to west boundary. The school was on one end and we were on the other. Even though Oakton was 13.5 miles from my house, at least my daughter went there with the rest of the kids from her community. Fox Mill was there, Frankling Farm. The kids knew each other from middle school, church and activities. Then we became an island at Westfield with a population centered in Centerville. There was no previous connection with those kids. I remember driving one of my kids to a function at a classmate's house on Bull Run Post Office Road (which is in the Westfield district). I had no idea where we were going That area is completely foreign to me and I thought for sure we'd be lost. Now we're in South Lakes facing the same alienation. The SB has to realize that redistricting is more than a stroke of the pen. It affects the lives, confidence, stability of entire families and communities. We need a high scholl out here, pure and simple. This is my 21st year with kids in FCPS, next year will be my last. I have been very reflective lately about the good and bad of the system, how my children have benefitted and how they haven't. Their grade school and middle school experiences always bring a smile on my face. Every time one went off to high school, however, I got knots in my stomach. If it wasn't a 13.5 mile drive to Oakton (our mantra at that time was "There's no good way to get to Oakton"), being yanked out of Oakton to fill up a new school composed primarily of Centerville kids (to whom we had no connection), or being yanked out of that situation (when we helped to build up a very successful school) and forced based on socio-economics into a school with an IB program we don't want (with Reston kids, also with whom we have no connection) their high school years were always accompanied with a sick feeling inside. We are a major population hub in Fairfax County. The jobs are here, the growth is here. FCPS owes us a high school. I'll never believe otherwise.

As Neen noted, the county is not exactly flush with resources to build new schools right now.

If you took a trip over to Longfellow in McLean or West Springfield (older, and quite crowded, schools scheduled for renovation or hoping to be added to the renovation list) and made your argument that, even though the schools generally are newer and/or in better condition in the western part of the county, you're "owed" a new school, what reception do you think you'd get?

For the sake of argument, however, based on current planning projections, you could create an 1790-student Oak Hill High out of the following five schools (with the adjusted projected 2013-14 enrollments and the resulting surplus of seats at each school):

Herndon 200 (to Oak Hill) @1900 Adjusted Enrollment -184 Extra
Chantilly 500 (to Oak Hill) @2100 Adjusted Enrollment -423 Extra
Oakton 400 (to Oak Hill) @2000 Adjusted Enrollment -192 Extra
South Lakes 300 (to Oak Hill) @2000 Adjusted Enrollment -250 Extra
Westfield 390 (to Oak Hill) @2100 Adjusted Enrollment -723 Extra

Are you prepared to (1) tell the School Board that you embrace the idea that high schools - throughout the entire county - should be around 2000 students; (2) demonstrate to the School Board that you and the other Floris Moms and Dads never wanted Westfield to be built to accommodate as many as 2800-3000 students; (3) establish that overall transportation costs would be reduced in the future; and (4) not complain when both Oak Hill and Westfield go 2-8 in football in 2018!

The reason I used the word "owe" is because "need" never got us anywhere. For 21 years now I have seen a need, a desperate need. We've never had a high school to call our own. The only way I see to consolidate our community again is to build us a high school. Floris Moms and Dads were happy at Oakton. Most of us bought our houses to be in the Oakton district. Again, reiterating, the school was far but we all went there together. Nobody I know wanted to switch to Westfield. But the SB needed Floris to open the school. I absolutely agree that 1) high schools should be around 2000 students; 2) we never wanted Westfield to be built so big and had no idea that it would ever get so big; 3) the county has been doing double transportation in Floris for a while, first to Oakton/Westfield, now to Westfield/SL; and 4) I have more high school jerseys in my house than I know what to do with. I don't know who to root for anymore, we have allegiances to Oakton, Westfield, and South Lakes. The SB has long ignored the need of a high school in this area. It is the only answer. It won't benefit my family for sure. But I'd really like to see my community together again in one piece. And I'd like to save my neighbors and friends the angst that I always felt sending my kids off to (multiple)high schools, and give their children the high school experience my kids never had.

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason I used the word "owe" is because "need"
> never got us anywhere. For 21 years now I have
> seen a need, a desperate need. We've never had a
> high school to call our own. The only way I see to
> consolidate our community again is to build us a
> high school. Floris Moms and Dads were happy at
> Oakton. Most of us bought our houses to be in the
> Oakton district. Again, reiterating, the school
> was far but we all went there together. Nobody I
> know wanted to switch to Westfield. But the SB
> needed Floris to open the school. I absolutely
> agree that 1) high schools should be around 2000
> students; 2) we never wanted Westfield to be built
> so big and had no idea that it would ever get so
> big; 3) the county has been doing double
> transportation in Floris for a while, first to
> Oakton/Westfield, now to Westfield/SL; and 4) I
> have more high school jerseys in my house than I
> know what to do with. I don't know who to root for
> anymore, we have allegiances to Oakton, Westfield,
> and South Lakes. The SB has long ignored the need
> of a high school in this area. It is the only
> answer. It won't benefit my family for sure. But
> I'd really like to see my community together again
> in one piece. And I'd like to save my neighbors
> and friends the angst that I always felt sending
> my kids off to (multiple)high schools, and give
> their children the high school experience my kids
> never had.

You seem totally sincere, so I hope that you continue to advocate strongly for what you think best serves the needs of your neighborhood. In general, those of us who don't live in the western part of the county had the impression that residents there were entirely comfortable with having their kids attend large schools like Chantilly, Oakton and Westfield, and only raised their voices when the School Board threw South Lakes into the mix. Perhaps that's not been the case. But, as I bet you know already, if you lobby for an Oak Hill HS and argue that smaller schools are preferable, you'll have to persuade quite a few folks that it's not just an attempt to reverse the South Lakes redistricting. It's a tough sell in the current economic environment, but perhaps you'll find a more sympathetic ear with the powers that be down the road. Or maybe you can run for Stu Gibson's seat in 2011.

I also hope that, at the end of the day, your own kids recall their high school experiences more fondly than you seem to: you may have had to travel to unknown parts of Centreville and Reston, but at least your child was invited to the function at the classmate's house!

And, while the Floris area may have been reassigned to different schools more often than other areas, there are certainly other areas where kids end up at different high schools from their former classmates. Even putting kids at Carson aside, kids at Poe go to both Stuart and Annandale; kids at Jackson split between Oakton and Falls Church; kids at both Kilmer and Thoreau split between Madison and Marshall; and kids at Franklin split between Oakton and Chantilly. Perhaps it's not ideal, but the kids generally do seem to take it in stride.

Posted by: CYA ()

Floris Community...no more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like Floris kids will not be allowed to play
> Chantilly Youth Association lacrosse now (new
> players). Will baseball, soccer, and basketball be
> next?...Received the following from CYA:
> --------
> We need to validate the following information for
> CYA Lacrosse. Recently the league (Northern VA
> Youth Lacrosse League) changed how new players
> will be routed to the various youth programs. Each
> new player must join the club that is aligned with
> their high school pyramid. This is based on the
> address where the player resides. CYA is aligned
> to accept players that will attend Chantilly HS
> and Oakton HS. At league meetings, we stated our
> desire to include Westfield and South Lakes in the
> CYA pyramid since we have served these
> neighborhoods in the past. We were not successful
> in our effort. For the past two months we were
> asking the league for clarification on the rule
> while registration was ongoing. It is clear now
> that we can only accept NEW players from the
> Chantilly and Oakton High School pyramids. This
> change does NOT affect existing CYA players
> meaning those that have played for CYA Lacrosse
> prior to this season.
> -----
> I checked the NVYLL site and Floris kids are only
> eligible to play for Herndon or SYA (depending on
> whether your HS is Westfield or South Lakes...
>
> Splitting our community even further...


>This information is no where to be found on the CYA website.
>How about you post something official before you start sobbing
>on the baord.


CYA lacrosse follows NVYLL bylaws:

http://www.nvyll.org/Page.asp?n=28133&snid=143724576&org=nvyll.org

New lacrosse players are now assigned to a club by high school pyramid. So Floris kids would play for SYA if their HS is Westfield or play for Herndon/Reston if their HS is South Lakes.

The email received was from the CYA lacrosse commissioner--this only pertains to CYA lacrosse. I'm not sure about other CYA sports...

Nice Try Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...

1) On Carson & Franklin - The two of them are the only 3-way split feeder MSes in the entire county & just happen to be about 1.5 miles apart. The reason they are the only 3-way split feeders is the missing Oak Hill HS.

2) On 2000 students - It's not some idea Floris cooked up - the official policy of FCPS has been a maximum of 2000 students in new construction for the last 35 years. The policy came from a study that essentially said that 2000 was a manageable size while being large enough to offer a broad enough program to meet the needs of all of the kids. The SB/Staff simply violated the policy when they felt like it - especially when they built Westfield & subsequently expanded it to "3100", now 2823. When they "reaffirmed" the policy last year, they actually weakened the language by adding text allowing larger HSes in "exceptional circumstances." During the reaffirmation process, the Staff asked the SB what, if anything, it meant for existing HSes. Result, from what I can tell, was deafening silence.

From my perspective, it's not clear that 2000 is the right size - by being as large as it is, Westfield has been able to offer some classes that it probably wouldn't have at 2000 - but, given the problems a small number Westfield kids have had that have been discussed in other threads, I'm certainly willing to consider that a smaller HS with more supervision might have helped some of them. Westfield's extra curriculars have different characteristics at its size - obviously football, but the big band can do things smaller ones have a hard time doing, but there are only so many leads in drama or quarterbacks. And, of course, Westfield has won a Governor's Award the last two years.

3) On the Oak Hill HS, there was a proposed Oak Hill HS in the CIP until we got stuck going to the Reston High School cause North Restonites wouldn't go there & Janie protected Langley. Now that Oak Hill goes to the Reston HS, our HS is gone, Floris is split, Carson is officially a 3-way feeder (with a couple more in the GTC making 5 + TJ making 6), and the Reston "community" that couldn't face having its kids go to its HS is forever split (though there are rumors of North Restonites IBing their kids to SL, now that we're there...). Before Westfield was expanded, there were proposals to build the Oak Hill HS, but FCPS told citizens in a bond issue that they'd simply add 600 seats to Westfield. Of course, they realized after construction (only completed last year) that adding classrooms without expanding hallways, etc. doesn't actually add that much capacity. So, now we citizens are told we only actually got 323, but we're supposed to forget that we paid for 600 & Oak Hill didn't get its HS.

"In general, those of us who don't live in the western part of the county had the impression that residents there were entirely comfortable with having their kids attend large schools like Chantilly, Oakton and Westfield, and only raised their voices when the School Board threw South Lakes into the mix. Perhaps that's not been the case."

This comment surprises me very much. Nobody wants their kids going to a large high school. The only reason Floris was so vocal about staying at Westfield is that we had been yanked out of Oakton only 7 years ago, been used to open Westfield, embraced it finally, and built up a really good school. We simply did not want to be used again to improve a poorly performing school with an IB program that we did not want. People out here in Western Fairfax have no choice but to send their kids to large schools. That's all that is available here. And the reason? We are one high school too short. And that is Oak Hill High School. If it were built it would relieve Chantilly, Westfield, Oakton, Herndon, getting all the schools down to the magic 2000 number. I don't understand why this is so hard for the SB/staff to figure out. And that's why I used the word "owe". Our area kids have suffered long enough (the 21 years at least that I have lived here). I'm sorry that some of the inner beltway high schools are overcrowded and need renovation. But my kids have suffered through overcrowding, long commutes, alienation at the high school, and constant reshuffling. It's time for the SB to help us out here, and settle this once and for all. If we only had a School Board representative who would advocate for us . . . Mr. Gibson has never done anything for our area EVER that I can remember. We need help out here. It's long overdue.

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Oakton was a perfect example of the elongated
> east to west boundary. The school was on one end
> and we were on the other. Even though Oakton was
> 13.5 miles from my house, at least my daughter
> went there with the rest of the kids from her
> community. Fox Mill was there, Frankling Farm.
> The kids knew each other from middle school,
> church and activities. Then we became an island at
> Westfield with a population centered in
> Centerville. There was no previous connection with
> those kids. I remember driving one of my kids to a
> function at a classmate's house on Bull Run Post
> Office Road (which is in the Westfield district).
> I had no idea where we were going That area is
> completely foreign to me and I thought for sure
> we'd be lost. Now we're in South Lakes facing the
> same alienation. The SB has to realize that
> redistricting is more than a stroke of the pen.
> It affects the lives, confidence, stability of
> entire families and communities. We need a high
> scholl out here, pure and simple. This is my 21st
> year with kids in FCPS, next year will be my last.
> I have been very reflective lately about the good
> and bad of the system, how my children have
> benefitted and how they haven't. Their grade
> school and middle school experiences always bring
> a smile on my face. Every time one went off to
> high school, however, I got knots in my stomach.
> If it wasn't a 13.5 mile drive to Oakton (our
> mantra at that time was "There's no good way to
> get to Oakton"), being yanked out of Oakton to
> fill up a new school composed primarily of
> Centerville kids (to whom we had no connection),
> or being yanked out of that situation (when we
> helped to build up a very successful school) and
> forced based on socio-economics into a school with
> an IB program we don't want (with Reston kids,
> also with whom we have no connection) their high
> school years were always accompanied with a sick
> feeling inside. We are a major population hub in
> Fairfax County. The jobs are here, the growth is
> here. FCPS owes us a high school. I'll never
> believe otherwise.


Nobody "owes" you anything. Stop complaining about the free meal the govt gives you. If you don't want your kids to suffer then send them to private school. Pay up or shut up!!!

Enough Already with Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Mom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes, Oakton was a perfect example of the
> elongated
> > east to west boundary. The school was on one
> end
> > and we were on the other. Even though Oakton
> was
> > 13.5 miles from my house, at least my daughter
> > went there with the rest of the kids from her
> > community. Fox Mill was there, Frankling Farm.
> > The kids knew each other from middle school,
> > church and activities. Then we became an island
> at
> > Westfield with a population centered in
> > Centerville. There was no previous connection
> with
> > those kids. I remember driving one of my kids to
> a
> > function at a classmate's house on Bull Run
> Post
> > Office Road (which is in the Westfield
> district).
> > I had no idea where we were going That area is
> > completely foreign to me and I thought for sure
> > we'd be lost. Now we're in South Lakes facing
> the
> > same alienation. The SB has to realize that
> > redistricting is more than a stroke of the pen.
>
> > It affects the lives, confidence, stability of
> > entire families and communities. We need a high
> > scholl out here, pure and simple. This is my
> 21st
> > year with kids in FCPS, next year will be my
> last.
> > I have been very reflective lately about the
> good
> > and bad of the system, how my children have
> > benefitted and how they haven't. Their grade
> > school and middle school experiences always
> bring
> > a smile on my face. Every time one went off to
> > high school, however, I got knots in my
> stomach.
> > If it wasn't a 13.5 mile drive to Oakton (our
> > mantra at that time was "There's no good way to
> > get to Oakton"), being yanked out of Oakton to
> > fill up a new school composed primarily of
> > Centerville kids (to whom we had no
> connection),
> > or being yanked out of that situation (when we
> > helped to build up a very successful school)
> and
> > forced based on socio-economics into a school
> with
> > an IB program we don't want (with Reston kids,
> > also with whom we have no connection) their
> high
> > school years were always accompanied with a
> sick
> > feeling inside. We are a major population hub
> in
> > Fairfax County. The jobs are here, the growth
> is
> > here. FCPS owes us a high school. I'll never
> > believe otherwise.
>
>
> Nobody "owes" you anything. Stop complaining
> about the free meal the govt gives you. If you
> don't want your kids to suffer then send them to
> private school. Pay up or shut up!!!

That was a rather harsh post you sent to Floris Mom. Do you live in the Western Fairfax county? I have lived in the western part of FX cty for years and I have to agree with Floris Mom that a new Oak Hill hs should have been needed and it did exist on a piece of paper with the SB/staff but never funded. There is growth from the new Coppermine school and once again Westfield could be bloated forcing a study at the hs again. I do not trust the SB/staff's enrollment projections one bit. Overall the sb did not really manage the funds well how to spend wisely causing significant problems with the school budget. It could be a lot different now if a new hs was built in the Oak Hill area.

Floris mom, if you want the consistency of one community, move to an established one. There are plenty of neighborhoods that are right around a middle and high school, then you wouldn't be switched. But you chose to live where you are, so deal with the consequences. Not everyone gets what they want, the kids at TJ and West Springfield are dealing with leaking ceilings and toilets that don't work by the end of the school day. Quit your griping about your poor little dears that have to meet new people and develop new friendships.

Floris Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This comment surprises me very much. Nobody wants
> their kids going to a large high school. The only
> reason Floris was so vocal about staying at
> Westfield is that we had been yanked out of Oakton
> only 7 years ago, been used to open Westfield,
> embraced it finally, and built up a really good
> school.

I think you and Westfield Dad may not be on the same page as to the appropriate size of the schools in your part of the county. If your community agrees that 2000 is about the right size, and there are funds available some day and a consensus that Herndon, Chantilly, Oakton, South Lakes, Westfield and Oak Hill should all be around 2000 students, I'm with you all the way.

If your community feels that Oak Hill should be built, but a high school elsewhere in the county should be shut down in order to maintain the big numbers at Westfield and its neighbors, we'll have quite a debate.

> We simply did not want to be used again
> to improve a poorly performing school with an IB
> program that we did not want. People out here in
> Western Fairfax have no choice but to send their
> kids to large schools.

It will be interesting to see how people view South Lakes in the future. As others noted, a lot of students reassigned to South Lakes placed back to Oakton, Madison and Westfield, but there are now more students transferring to South Lakes from Herndon than vice versa. Marshall is also an IB school and there are now more pupil placements into than out of Marshall. Perhaps that will also be true at South Lakes one day.

> But my kids have suffered through overcrowding,
> long commutes, alienation at the high school, and
> constant reshuffling. It's time for the SB to
> help us out here, and settle this once and for
> all. If we only had a School Board representative
> who would advocate for us . . . Mr. Gibson has
> never done anything for our area EVER that I can
> remember. We need help out here. It's long
> overdue.

I have to confess I'm still a bit puzzled - what is so "alienating" about attending a different school than a sibling or, for that matter, Westfield? Is it just the size of the place? My kids have gone to "split feeder" schools, and attend a high school that is probably the third closest to our house. Sure, they are "alienated" at times, but that's because they're teenagers, not because their bus ride isn't shorter or they can't take Chemistry with their best friend from sixth grade.

As long as Mr. Gibson does what Reston wants and leaves the town of Vienna alone (which it wants), he can win School Board elections for the next 30 years. But, please, support his next opponent - if only to make sure there is a spirited debate.

I have only one more year in the FCPS system. That will make 22 years. I am entitled to my reflection and my opinion. It's not easy or practical to pack up and move for anyone. I am simply trying to make the situation better and right for the Floris community. I have always been silent and just took what they dealt us out here. We endured the long dangerous congested roads to Oakton and Westfield. We endured the feelings of alienation at Westfield and now South Lakes. We endured overcrowding at Westfield. And we have been used continually to open or improve schools. The image of SL PTA President Elizabeth Vanderburg with a map of the FxCounty School boundaries hand selecting the Floris neighborhood to attend her school will forever stay in my head. I always liked living in the Floris community. We once were a community and had that consistency, but thanks to the SB we are being dismantled slowly piece by piece. That's hard to take. And it's always us on the chopping block. The point of my posts is simply this: an Oak Hill High School would relieve this entire area at the high school level. The SB has adopted the 2000 member high school as a policy. Now they need to do something out here to address it. It really doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. I'm simply voicing my opinion based on two decades of living out here. I have nothing to gain personally. The issue is bigger than that: it's doing what is right.

> That was a rather harsh post you sent to Floris
> Mom. Do you live in the Western Fairfax county?
> I have lived in the western part of FX cty for
> years and I have to agree with Floris Mom that a
> new Oak Hill hs should have been needed and it did
> exist on a piece of paper with the SB/staff but
> never funded.

"should have been needed" Now that is a CLASSIC!