South Lakes should take all 54 of its students back from TJ before it tries to take any students from neighboring schools. With those 14 very high ability students per grade, SLHS could offer those high level courses.

Cinderella Wrote:
> (snip) With class sizes going up, schools like
> South Lakes are going to have more difficulty
> having the highest-level math classes for its
> students unless it continues to combine HL and SL
> courses. (snip)

Many TJ students go on to Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many TJ students go on to study in the humanities.
> They get in to TJ but do not follow on with an
> emphasis on math, science and technology. They go
> to TJ because they are smart, can get in, and
> because the county has no governor's school option
> for those who seek to study other subjects. A
> perfect FCPS school to close and turn into such a
> humanities school would be Oakton. It is already
> too close to Fairfax and Madison and it has easy
> access via route 66.

I've studied the maps and there's no way the School Board could close Oakton or turn it into a county-widemagnet. There are just too many students there now and in the western part of the county that Oakton serves.

If the School Board were actually trying to save money, as opposed to claiming that it wants to save money, it would close South Lakes, Marshall or Falls Church. It won't close South Lakes - it was just renovated and it's Stuart Gibson's favorite school. And, if you close South Lakes, the Madison attendance area starts to resemble Oakton's (in the sense that students living even further to the west of Madison attend the school), and much of the town of Vienna gets moved to Marshall or Falls Church.

Falls Church has been losing students in recent years, and is a lower-performing school than South Lakes or Marshall, but it can't be closed without a major RD that affects many schools. This is because, except for Stuart and Marshall, all of Falls Church's neighboring schools are close to or above capacity, including Annandale, Woodson, Oakton and Madison.

On the merits, Marshall is more successful than either South Lakes or Falls Church, as well as one of the two flagship IB programs. But, if the 2007 RD were overturned, it would be relatively easy for the School Board to close Marshall and only affect four other schools: McLean, Falls Church, Madison and South Lakes. If the School Board could close (or convert) Fort Hunt in the 1980s, when Fort Hunt was considered a much stronger school than Groveton, it could certainly opt to close Marshall over Falls Church.

None of this would be fun, and it wouldn't be in anyone's interests to be left guessing for a long time about the School Board's plans. But, if painful choices have to be made, some choices clearly would be less disruptive than others.

Mary Ellen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not SL?
>
>
> Many TJ students go on to Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Many TJ students go on to study in the
> humanities.
> > They get in to TJ but do not follow on with an
> > emphasis on math, science and technology. They
> go
> > to TJ because they are smart, can get in, and
> > because the county has no governor's school
> option
> > for those who seek to study other subjects. A
> > perfect FCPS school to close and turn into such
> a
> > humanities school would be Oakton. It is
> already
> > too close to Fairfax and Madison and it has
> easy
> > access via route 66.


Mary Ellen,
Because South Lakes is not within a mile and a half of two other high schools and it isn't right off a major interstate which would be convenient for students from all over the county to get to and Oakton is (although a bit far for West Potomac HS and the schools along the route 1 corridor).

I said SL would have difficulty, but so would other schools.

I am friends with a parent at Madison where they are unable to offer a very high level math class to 15 top math students because the numbers are deemed insufficient.

Given how accelerated kids are nowadays, and the variability in having these kids in sufficient numbers (at ANY school) from year to year such that these classes could be CONSISTENTLY offered, having TJ makes sense.


stay? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes should take all 54 of its students
> back from TJ before it tries to take any students
> from neighboring schools. With those 14 very high
> ability students per grade, SLHS could offer those
> high level courses.
>
> Cinderella Wrote:
> > (snip) With class sizes going up, schools like
> > South Lakes are going to have more difficulty
> > having the highest-level math classes for its
> > students unless it continues to combine HL and
> SL
> > courses. (snip)

Cinderella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I said SL would have difficulty, but so would
> other schools.
>
> I am friends with a parent at Madison where they
> are unable to offer a very high level math class
> to 15 top math students because the numbers are
> deemed insufficient.
>
> Given how accelerated kids are nowadays, and the
> variability in having these kids in sufficient
> numbers (at ANY school) from year to year such
> that these classes could be CONSISTENTLY offered,
> having TJ makes sense.
>
>
> stay? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes should take all 54 of its students
> > back from TJ before it tries to take any
> students
> > from neighboring schools. With those 14 very
> high
> > ability students per grade, SLHS could offer
> those
> > high level courses.
> >
> > Cinderella Wrote:
> > > (snip) With class sizes going up, schools
> like
> > > South Lakes are going to have more difficulty
> > > having the highest-level math classes for its
> > > students unless it continues to combine HL
> and
> > SL
> > > courses. (snip)

Are those 15 top math students more advanced than many in their grade at TJ? In other words, is some kid taking up a slot at TJ puportedly because they need the advanced STEM while another who actually is more intellectually capable in math stuck?

Time to do a shuffle in grades 11 and 12. This is exactly why 4 Governor's school Academies make sense for the math-science . Immediate budget savings would be the entire EC department at TJ-DSA, coaches, 2 DSA's, etc.

The tech sequence at TJ beginning in grade 9 is not available at any other schools. Why not? Too much reliance on TJ?

Another argument against TJ: If Madison got back all the "top math students" that the area sends to TJ, then Madison COULD "offer a very high level math class."

Cinderella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I said SL would have difficulty, but so would
> other schools.
>
> I am friends with a parent at Madison where they
> are unable to offer a very high level math class
> to 15 top math students because the numbers are
> deemed insufficient.
>
> Given how accelerated kids are nowadays, and the
> variability in having these kids in sufficient
> numbers (at ANY school) from year to year such
> that these classes could be CONSISTENTLY offered,
> having TJ makes sense.
>
>
> stay? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes should take all 54 of its students
> > back from TJ before it tries to take any
> students
> > from neighboring schools. With those 14 very
> high
> > ability students per grade, SLHS could offer
> those
> > high level courses.
> >
> > Cinderella Wrote:
> > > (snip) With class sizes going up, schools
> like
> > > South Lakes are going to have more difficulty
> > > having the highest-level math classes for its
> > > students unless it continues to combine HL
> and
> > SL
> > > courses. (snip)

No doubt those 15 students at Madison HS want to take post-AP multivariable calculus and linear algebra in 12th grade. While many TJ students take these post-AP math classes in 10th through 12th grades, some never get past AP Calculus AB or AP Calculus BC. So, the answer to your question is yes.


taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Are those 15 top math students more advanced than
> many in their grade at TJ? In other words, is
> some kid taking up a slot at TJ puportedly because
> they need the advanced STEM while another who
> actually is more intellectually capable in math
> stuck?

How many parents in FFX red shirt (or hold back) their kids at the kindergarden or first grade level so that they will be more mature and, potentially, academically ready for the types of higher level courses available at TJ? Of course, it may turn out all to be for naught, but do parents in Cindarella's Brave New World actually think like this?

Magnets Repel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many parents in FFX red shirt (or hold back)
> their kids at the kindergarden or first grade
> level so that they will be more mature and,
> potentially, academically ready for the types of
> higher level courses available at TJ? Of course,
> it may turn out all to be for naught, but do
> parents in Cindarella's Brave New World actually
> think like this?

Yes.

You might look at today's NYT story on summer camps:

Catherine Steiner-Adair, a clinical psychologist in Massachusetts who consults with residential camps, said they can be among the best places for children to develop social skills and resilience — if only parents allow it.

“If your child doesn’t get the bunk they want or you’re worried that he didn’t get the right camp counselor, if you convey that kind of response — ‘Oh my God, that’s awful, let me call them, it’s so unfair’ — that’s the worst possible response a parent could have,” she said. “But more of that is happening.”

Sounds kinda like redistricting, no?

stay? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes should take all 54 of its students
> back from TJ before it tries to take any students
> from neighboring schools. With those 14 very high
> ability students per grade, SLHS could offer those
> high level courses.

Fourteen students won't fill one half of a class, and that's assuming that they all want the same high level class. Before SL's takes back those students the school will need to provide math classes two years beyond AP calculus BC. They will also need to offer AP Physics BC and Quantum physics along with AP computer science and the engineering courses beyond it.

On yeah, and they will have to convince the Governor to begin closing Governor's schools across the state and convince all of the private donors to suspend their donations and their TJ foundation.

Sorry to those of you who are sucking on your sour grapes, but TJ isn't about to close.

I didn't say close TJ. I said South Lakes should bring home all its own students before it tries to grab more kids from other schools.

Aren't you one who thinks SLHS should get rid of IB and offer AP instead?


Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stay? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes should take all 54 of its students
> > back from TJ before it tries to take any
> students
> > from neighboring schools. With those 14 very
> high
> > ability students per grade, SLHS could offer
> those
> > high level courses.
>
> Fourteen students won't fill one half of a class,
> and that's assuming that they all want the same
> high level class. Before SL's takes back those
> students the school will need to provide math
> classes two years beyond AP calculus BC. They
> will also need to offer AP Physics BC and Quantum
> physics along with AP computer science and the
> engineering courses beyond it.
>

FCPS has now posted the post-RD 2008-09 boundary maps on its web site for the various county schools, including Westfield, Chantilly, Oakton, SL and Madison. Seems strange that they'd go ahead and do this with a court ruling less than a week away, but guess that's your tax dollars at work.

Get the fuck off my forum you egghead dipshits. I can't stand white trash. Go home to your trailor parks, you white dummies. Take Baffled and Forum Reader with you.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

GET OFF MY MESSAGE BOARD.

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt those 15 students at Madison HS want to
> take post-AP multivariable calculus and linear
> algebra in 12th grade. While many TJ students
> take these post-AP math classes in 10th through
> 12th grades, some never get past AP Calculus AB or
> AP Calculus BC. So, the answer to your question
> is yes.
>
Madison is offering multi var and linear Algebra this fall.

Don't ask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Magnets Repel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many parents in FFX red shirt (or hold
> back)
> > their kids at the kindergarden or first grade
> > level so that they will be more mature and,
> > potentially, academically ready for the types
> of
> > higher level courses available at TJ? Of
> course,
> > it may turn out all to be for naught, but do
> > parents in Cindarella's Brave New World
> actually
> > think like this?
>
Gee, I dunno, how many people decide when their child is 4 that he's TJ material so needs to spend an extra yearn in pre school? Hint, it's a number less than five, more likely, less than zero.

Parents wait a year because they know their child is not ready for school. The pre school teacher may have told them to wait a year, or the pediatrician. Usually the children are somewhat immature boys. It has nothing to do with TJ or AP courses since most parents of 4 year olds have never thought about either.

this has turned into a freak show

>>I didn't say close TJ. I said South Lakes should bring home all its own students before it tries to grab more kids from other schools.
>>
Aren't you one who thinks SLHS should get rid of IB and offer AP instead?

So, the county should tell families from South Lakes that they are not eligible to apply for TJ because some folks in Fox Mill and Floris think those students should stay at South Lakes instead of have the same opportunity to apply to TJ as students in the rest of the county? Just what are you smoking?

edit by Cary: closed HTML tag



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2008 01:12AM by Cary.

Check out the story in the Post today about the TJ kid kicked out for getting a 2.8.

No surprise that he blames his teacher. Where is the personal responsibility. His only good grades were in PE and Driver's Ed.

Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a 2.8 GPA in middle school.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the story in the Post today about the TJ
> kid kicked out for getting a 2.8.

The SLHS PTSA that is so worried about having enough "good" students should go after their OWN base school kids and make THEM stay before they take kids from Fox Mill and Floris who want to STAY at their old schools and not move to South Lakes.

force them back Wrote:
> So, the county should tell families from South
> Lakes that they are not eligible to apply for TJ
> because some folks in Fox Mill and Floris think
> those students should stay at South Lakes instead
> of have the same opportunity to apply to TJ as
> students in the rest of the county?

Cinderella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a 2.8
> GPA in middle school.
>
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Check out the story in the Post today about the
> TJ
> > kid kicked out for getting a 2.8.

maybe he helped his dad in electrical engineering and the dad's professional connections were going to help mentor him for a contest. All I know for sure is I do not care to fund above the baseline for non-disabled students in high school. Free tutoring at TJ? What is TJ, FCPS private school? If in Maryland, this kid would not have gotten into Mongomery Blair Magnet. The parents would be paying for Landon. Too far to commute to a private from Robinson area? What's up with the full family admissions to TJHSST? Perhaps the applications-tests should go in with numbers and no names.

Here is a "a happy, healthy, well-rounded child" but "map quizzes required painful and rote memorization and that he could not understand why she did not like his essays when other teachers praised his writing." He seems more suited to his base school, IB-Robinson.

"34 students with averages under 3.2 were placed in an "intervention" program to help them improve." Wow. We need this at ALL schools. Provide extra help to regular students, not just to the top and bottom.

"The Roanoke Valley Governor's School for Science and Technology in Roanoke, Va., has a 3.0 rule, but it is a half-day program whose students remain enrolled at their home schools." Another good idea. No reason we can't make TJ a half-day program as well.

--------------
"___finished 10th grade at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology with much to be proud of. He excelled in oratory on the Model United Nations team. He was a starting lineman in junior varsity football. His English teacher complimented his classroom wit. Like virtually all students at the very selective public magnet school in Fairfax County, he scored near the top on the Virginia state Standards of Learning exams.

(snip) The parents acknowledge that Matthew has trouble organizing his time. But "he is a happy, healthy, well-rounded child."

(snip) 34 students with averages under 3.2 were placed in an "intervention" program to help them improve. All but five eventually met the 3.0 standard.

(snip) The Roanoke Valley Governor's School for Science and Technology in Roanoke, Va., has a 3.0 rule, but it is a half-day program whose students remain enrolled at their home schools. Matthew's final report card in June showed A's in physical education, drivers education and photojournalism. Other marks were not as good: English, B-plus; chemistry, B; pre-calculus, C; French, C; and world history and geography, D.

(snip) he had to go back to Robinson Secondary School in Fairfax, he blamed world history and geography teacher Carolyn Gecan. He said that her map quizzes required painful and rote memorization and that he could not understand why she did not like his essays when other teachers praised his writing.

(snip) Matthew rejected her offers to work with him during lunch or activity periods, saying he was too busy with Model United Nations, sports and the yearbook. (snip) administrators think that students in Matthew's situation would be better off elsewhere (snip)"

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt those 15 students at Madison HS want to
> take post-AP multivariable calculus and linear
> algebra in 12th grade. While many TJ students
> take these post-AP math classes in 10th through
> 12th grades, some never get past AP Calculus AB or
> AP Calculus BC. So, the answer to your question
> is yes.
>
>
> taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Are those 15 top math students more advanced
> than
> > many in their grade at TJ? In other words, is
> > some kid taking up a slot at TJ puportedly
> because
> > they need the advanced STEM while another who
> > actually is more intellectually capable in math
> > stuck?


They do not offer multi-variable calc at Madison. At Oakton (last year), 13 students took multivariable calc and that included 3 students who came over from Madison.

Oops the 2.8 was also in middle school. Unless a super athlete, donor, or well connected he might not have gotten into a private school.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ question Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Should we only allow males to apply?
>
> Absolutely not. The selection process into TJ
> should be based solely on the students' abilities
> (as measured by GPA, test scores, etc). Race and
> sex should not be considered at all, but we know
> that'll never happen.


From the students who I know who got in to TJ, it's clear to me that ability/math test scores were the key to entrance. I don't think that race, sex, etc played much of a role at all--and it shouldn't. But, I do think that only American students--obviously of any ethnicity, etc.--should be offered admission. I was troubled when I saw a Korean girl (as noted in a Post article) entering the Freshmen class. I might have this wrong, but it appears her family came here with the father on business for a couple of years, he went back to Korea and the mom and kids stayed for the benefits of an American education. Now, the girl is going to TJ. Does it make sense to offer a foreign national--who will likely go back to Korea with her TJ diploma in hand-- a very dear spot in one what is considered one of America's top public high schools??

"BRAC," if you have any info/data on what contractors might be planning to do, could you post it here or email it to me?

I've been very curious about why there is a seemingly overabundance of concern about that. If, as analysis of the DOD jobs themselves shows, few of the government workers will move their households to live nearer Fort Belvoir, what exactly would prompt a contractor to move his office (or even set up an additional office) to be nearer Fort Belvoir?

I would really like to have insight to this issue. It does keep coming up, of course. But, contractors aren't bound by law or any regulation I know of to report what they're planning. Nor does the Congress require or resource the government to do any kind of analysis that might provide it or the community with information to use in gauging BRAC's contractor impact.

My gut tells me any "growth" of businesses moving into South County as a result of BRAC at Belvoir is most likely to be in the service arena - restaurants, hotels, etc., but not in the housing market or (to bring all this back on topic) the schools.

- Don


BRAC Wrote:
--------------------------------
> BRAC'd Wrote:
--------------------------------
I think you'll be suprised - especially where the contractors are concerned

He had 2.8 GPA which was okay for admission. TJ's admission GPA is being changed to 3.0 GPA according to recent report to the School Board.

Cinderella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a 2.8
> GPA in middle school.
>
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Check out the story in the Post today about the
> TJ
> > kid kicked out for getting a 2.8.

FCPS schools (including but not limited to TJ) have students who are legal residents but not citizens. Usually, their parents are here on work visas or student visas. These children are not here illegally.

I've known many students with visas that allowed them and their parents to live in the US. Some of the very best students at TJ were not born in the US.

These foreign-born students attend US colleges. They get green cards if they don't already have one (usually before they finish high school), and later become productive US citizens who pay taxes and contribute to society.


Other questions about TJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the students who I know who got in to TJ,
> it's clear to me that ability/math test scores
> were the key to entrance. I don't think that
> race, sex, etc played much of a role at all--and
> it shouldn't. But, I do think that only American
> students--obviously of any ethnicity, etc.--should
> be offered admission. I was troubled when I saw a
> Korean girl (as noted in a Post article) entering
> the Freshmen class. I might have this wrong, but
> it appears her family came here with the father on
> business for a couple of years, he went back to
> Korea and the mom and kids stayed for the benefits
> of an American education. Now, the girl is going
> to TJ. Does it make sense to offer a foreign
> national--who will likely go back to Korea with
> her TJ diploma in hand-- a very dear spot in one
> what is considered one of America's top public
> high schools?

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS schools (including but not limited to TJ)
> have students who are legal residents but not
> citizens. Usually, their parents are here on work
> visas or student visas. These children are not
> here illegally.
>
> I've known many students with visas that allowed
> them and their parents to live in the US. Some of
> the very best students at TJ were not born in the
> US.
>
> These foreign-born students attend US colleges.
> They get green cards if they don't already have
> one (usually before they finish high school), and
> later become productive US citizens who pay taxes
> and contribute to society.
>
>
> Other questions about TJ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From the students who I know who got in to TJ,
> > it's clear to me that ability/math test scores
> > were the key to entrance. I don't think that
> > race, sex, etc played much of a role at
> all--and
> > it shouldn't. But, I do think that only
> American
> > students--obviously of any ethnicity,
> etc.--should
> > be offered admission. I was troubled when I saw
> a
> > Korean girl (as noted in a Post article)
> entering
> > the Freshmen class. I might have this wrong,
> but
> > it appears her family came here with the father
> on
> > business for a couple of years, he went back to
> > Korea and the mom and kids stayed for the
> benefits
> > of an American education. Now, the girl is
> going
> > to TJ. Does it make sense to offer a foreign
> > national--who will likely go back to Korea with
> > her TJ diploma in hand-- a very dear spot in
> one
> > what is considered one of America's top public
> > high schools?


You miss my point. I didn't suggest she was here illegally. I'm suggesting that TJ should only have spaces for US citizens (from all races, ethnicities and backgrounds.) It is a public magnet high school...and an incredible American resource. This school is only accessible to a tiny few, so why should these limited spaces go to children who are not American citizens? I know Korea has some very prestigious high schools. Can you imagine them making a space for an American? (The fact that the aforementioned girl's father still lives and works in Korea doesn't make it sound as if the family is calling Northern Virginia home--at least at this point in time when their daughter has been admitted to one of the most prestigious public high schools in this country. Maybe she will get a green card and go on to become a US taxpayer and contributor to US society--BUT right not her father is Korean taxpayer and a contributor to that society.)
The college comment does not hold water for me. Obviously private colleges can admit whomever they chose and they frequently look for diversity for their school population. Public colleges also do the same thing--often to the detriment to those who are residents.

Cinderella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a 2.8 GPA in middle school.< <

As the story relates, his test scores were quite good.

Three things in the story resonate for me. This boy's downfall was: 1) missing homework assignments, 2) an adversarial relationship with a female teacher and 3) an administration that ignored the parent's ask for help with a toxic relationship between a teacher and a student.

All three of these phenomena are all too typical of the mediocrity that is FCPS

Even if a boy shows mastery of the material on tests and quizes, teachers use the grading of makework homework assignments which bore boys to death to drag their grades down.

The number of women teachers who have antognistic attitudes toward boys is breathtaking.

HS administrator's failing to respond to parents asking for help.

I couldn't agree more. There are a number of teachers who structure things in such a way as to penalize boys.

If teachers are unwilling to comply with a 504 or IEP, why are they going to help a boy without one?

I'm not saying it's right, but it's well known that many schools don't comply with the bare minimum of what they are supposed to do.

>
> Three things in the story resonate for me. This
> boy's downfall was: 1) missing homework
> assignments, 2) an adversarial relationship with a
> female teacher and 3) an administration that
> ignored the parent's ask for help with a toxic
> relationship between a teacher and a student.
>
> All three of these phenomena are all too typical
> of the mediocrity that is FCPS
>
> Even if a boy shows mastery of the material on
> tests and quizes, teachers use the grading of
> makework homework assignments which bore boys to
> death to drag their grades down.
>
> The number of women teachers who have antognistic
> attitudes toward boys is breathtaking.
>
> HS administrator's failing to respond to parents
> asking for help.

Cartographer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS has now posted the post-RD 2008-09 boundary
> maps on its web site for the various county
> schools, including Westfield, Chantilly, Oakton,
> SL and Madison. Seems strange that they'd go
> ahead and do this with a court ruling less than a
> week away, but guess that's your tax dollars at
> work.

Another typical waste of our money with their over confidence. Pride goeth before a fall.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cinderella Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a
> 2.8 GPA in middle school.< <
>
> As the story relates, his test scores were quite
> good.
>
> Three things in the story resonate for me. This
> boy's downfall was: 1) missing homework
> assignments, 2) an adversarial relationship with a
> female teacher and 3) an administration that
> ignored the parent's ask for help with a toxic
> relationship between a teacher and a student.
>
> All three of these phenomena are all too typical
> of the mediocrity that is FCPS
>
> Even if a boy shows mastery of the material on
> tests and quizes, teachers use the grading of
> makework homework assignments which bore boys to
> death to drag their grades down.
>
> The number of women teachers who have antognistic
> attitudes toward boys is breathtaking.
>
> HS administrator's failing to respond to parents
> asking for help.

Oh please. So his test scores were good but he was lazy and preferred to spend time on football and model UN. He didn't want to do the work, he has little interest in math and science. There is NO reason for him to occupying a space when there are 2,000+ other students who can do the work, and would do the work, required at TJ. Quite a few of those might even be interested in math and science.

I don't believe for a minute this boy was made sick because he had memorize things for a test. What a total wimp. I have NO doubt that someone in his class, and his teacher, would have noticed a sick child. He didn't do the work, didn't turn in written assignments, and then claimed that the teacher was making him sick because she required him to complete his assignments and memorize things for tests. Boo Hoo.

The kid is the baby of the family for whom expectations are low and excuses are readily accepted. I hope his future bosses don't expect the poor boy to complete assignments on time when he'd rather be doing something else.

Mary Ellen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He had 2.8 GPA which was okay for admission. TJ's
> admission GPA is being changed to 3.0 GPA
> according to recent report to the School Board.
>
> Cinderella Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a
> 2.8
> > GPA in middle school.
> >
Presumably he was admitted because his older sister and brother attended and did well. A student with a 2.8 in middle school should not be admitted to TJ since middle school is so much easier than high school. A smart, but lazy, student should not be taking a space from a student who is willing to do the work that it takes. This student, and his parents, knew all year that he was endanger of being booted from TJ, yet he continued to choose football and other activities, over completing assignments and working harder at academics. He made his choices, and suffered the consequences. I had to laugh when he said he was counseled, but didn't believe what they told him! Typical 'baby' of the family who has never had consequences imposed on him.

The school board has not yet voted to have a minimum of 3.0 from middle school to be accepted. Tina Hone, among others, has objected. I suspect they will not pass this requirement since it advantage Asians even more and hurt Blacks and Hispanics.

Questioner Wrote:


> They do not offer multi-variable calc at Madison.
> At Oakton (last year), 13 students took
> multivariable calc and that included 3 students
> who came over from Madison.

According to a student who is enrolled in it, and his mother, Madison is offering Multvar this fall for about 15 students.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oops the 2.8 was also in middle school. Unless a
> super athlete, donor, or well connected he might
> not have gotten into a private school.

You are correct, he would not have been accepted at the private schools because they know he wouldn't do the work. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, as TJ has learned.

blame the teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No surprise that he blames his teacher. Where is
> the personal responsibility. His only good grades
> were in PE and Driver's Ed.

Yeah, ain't that a hoot?! And the poor baby found memorizing things for a test to be "painful". Yikes! I hope someone tells him soon about college and finals. Apparently no teacher has ever required the poor baby to memorize anything for a test. He'll never make it through college. Maybe his parents can follow him to college to help out there too.

I can't believe I actually agree with Neen. I hate to tell you TM, but in the 'real world' it is not enough to just know your stuff. Sometimes, you actually have to produce work. Try telling your boss 'Sorry, I didn't make that deadline, but you know how well I know this stuff' and see how far that gets you.
I don't know how this kid was 'puzzled' that he got expelled when the policy was made very clear at the beginning of the school year. This sounds like one of those FX families who wants to blame everyone else and not take any responsibility. Shame on you TM for supporting that attitude!


Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cinderella Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Why was he admitted to begin with? He had
> a
> > 2.8 GPA in middle school.< <
> >
> > As the story relates, his test scores were
> quite
> > good.
> >
> > Three things in the story resonate for me.
> This
> > boy's downfall was: 1) missing homework
> > assignments, 2) an adversarial relationship with
> a
> > female teacher and 3) an administration that
> > ignored the parent's ask for help with a toxic
> > relationship between a teacher and a student.
>
> >
> > All three of these phenomena are all too
> typical
> > of the mediocrity that is FCPS
> >
> > Even if a boy shows mastery of the material on
> > tests and quizes, teachers use the grading of
> > makework homework assignments which bore boys
> to
> > death to drag their grades down.
> >
> > The number of women teachers who have
> antognistic
> > attitudes toward boys is breathtaking.
> >
> > HS administrator's failing to respond to
> parents
> > asking for help.
>
> Oh please. So his test scores were good but he was
> lazy and preferred to spend time on football and
> model UN. He didn't want to do the work, he has
> little interest in math and science. There is NO
> reason for him to occupying a space when there are
> 2,000+ other students who can do the work, and
> would do the work, required at TJ. Quite a few of
> those might even be interested in math and
> science.
>
> I don't believe for a minute this boy was made
> sick because he had memorize things for a test.
> What a total wimp. I have NO doubt that someone
> in his class, and his teacher, would have noticed
> a sick child. He didn't do the work, didn't turn
> in written assignments, and then claimed that the
> teacher was making him sick because she required
> him to complete his assignments and memorize
> things for tests. Boo Hoo.
>
> The kid is the baby of the family for whom
> expectations are low and excuses are readily
> accepted. I hope his future bosses don't expect
> the poor boy to complete assignments on time when
> he'd rather be doing something else.

TJ is many things - positive and negative - but one consistent element of TJ is that it takes a lot of work for even the brightest students to get through it and do well.

College freshmen from TJ invariably report that the first year of college is not that difficult - TJ prepares them. Ironically, this is the same feedback top students in England and Japan relate after the brutal upper level examinations required to gain admission to their top schools.

I don't want to appear rough on the young man featured in the paper (I question his parents' judgment in being so public about the issue), but TJ is not for everyone even if they have the intelligence - he did not really appear to want to be there.

TM - I think as a general matter schools have become a bit too femininized - so to speak - but I don't think this was the kid's downfall - he did not do the work.

One thing that boys respond to very well in school is competition - lots of it - and it motivates them to learn. The relative absence of that notion - or of teachers appealing to that concept in boys - is a problem. My own adolescent experience reflects that myself and the gang of guys I ran with did not really care for the wrote memorization often appurtenant to high school, but above all else, we did not want to lose to the rich kids academically. And credit to certain of our teachers for motivating us that way - hard to do in today's politically correct environment.

And by the way, the history teacher involved in this has an excellent reputation. Not every kid will match up with every teacher, but this is not an arbitrary or unfair educator. Give her her due.

blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I can't believe I actually agree with Neen. I hate to tell you TM, but in the 'real world' it is not enough to just know your stuff. Sometimes, you actually have to produce work.< <

Rote memorization of maps has little usefulness in a world of Google. This kid did produce work in the other courses it was the history course that got him bounced.

> > Try telling your boss 'Sorry, I didn't make that deadline, but you know how well I know this stuff' and see how far that gets you.

As an employer and a business owner, I know that there are very few career threatening deadlines in the real world.

> > I don't know how this kid was 'puzzled' that he got expelled when the policy was made very clear at the beginning of the school year. This sounds like one of those FX families who wants to blame everyone else and not take any responsibility.< <

This family's older kids didn't have a problem at TJ.

> Shame on you TM for supporting that attitude!

Why are you hating a family you don't know? This story resonates with my own experience of FCPS. but I guess that shameful to you. Stay happy in your ignorance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2008 08:34PM by Thomas More.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Presumably he was admitted because his older sister and brother attended and did well.< <

He got admitted because of his success on one of those standardized test that you're so fond of.


> > A student with a 2.8 in middle school should not be admitted to TJ since middle school is so much easier than high school.

See that's why colleges are dropping SATs, because like this kid, they do not accurately predict success in class.

> A smart, but lazy, student should not be taking a space from a
> student who is willing to do the work that it takes.

This kid on the football team and model UN is hardly lazy. Not able to priortize, sure, He's acting typically for a 15 years old which may suggest that TJ wasn't the place for him.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cinderella Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Why was he admitted to begin with? He had a
> 2.8 GPA in middle school.< <
>
> As the story relates, his test scores were quite
> good.
>
> Three things in the story resonate for me. This
> boy's downfall was: 1) missing homework
> assignments, 2) an adversarial relationship with a
> female teacher and 3) an administration that
> ignored the parent's ask for help with a toxic
> relationship between a teacher and a student.
>
> All three of these phenomena are all too typical
> of the mediocrity that is FCPS
>
> Even if a boy shows mastery of the material on
> tests and quizes, teachers use the grading of
> makework homework assignments which bore boys to
> death to drag their grades down.
>
> The number of women teachers who have antognistic
> attitudes toward boys is breathtaking.
>
> HS administrator's failing to respond to parents
> asking for help.



Ah yes, women teachers are harming our sons. There are so few successful men these days, all due to the women teachers who have harmed them. What a silly statement. Female teachers have been the dominant gender, and from general stats (congress, many businesses) men are the ones in power. Apparently the "antognistic attitude towards boys" pays off.

<<>>

You make me laugh! Please explain just how the SLHS PTSA could go about "MAKING" kids living within their boundary who qualify for TJ STAY at SL. When you are finished explaining that, how about making all the families sending students to private school, tell us how they can go about "MAKING" them attend SL too.

hmmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> College freshmen from TJ invariably report that the first year of college is not that difficult - TJ prepares them.< <

I get that report from almost every FCPS college attendee I ever talk to, not just TJ grads. The amount of useless make work imposed on FCPS kids makes college a picnic for FCPS kids but only after all of this make work has disqualified them from attending colleges that their grades on test and quizzes would suggest they are fully able to handle.

I've come to wonder if that isn't an essential part of the FCPS ethos. With the chronic shortage of public university seats in Va is the grading scale, and amount of enervating make work homework, an insidious means to manage a limited resource by disqualifying as many FCPS kids as possible from attending the few good public colleges in Va.

It sure would explain a lot that is otherwise inexplicable.

> TM - I think as a general matter schools have become a bit too femininized - so to speak - but I don't think this was the kid's downfall - he did not do the work.

Rote memorization is simply not an important skill in a world of the internet. I wonder how he did on the tests and quizzes. Why was memorizing maps so critical to the grade in this class?

Or was this simply a control issue for the teacher as it is for so many educators.

> > And by the way, the history teacher involved in this has an excellent reputation. Not every kid will match up with every teacher, but this is not an arbitrary or unfair educator. Give her her due.< <

There is nothing in the story to demonstrate that she is an excellent teacher and the fact, after all her years in teaching, she was unaware of the lack of empathy between her and her protege suggests she's not as good as your impression of her. But who knows?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I can't believe I actually agree with Neen. I
> hate to tell you TM, but in the 'real world' it is
> not enough to just know your stuff. Sometimes,
> you actually have to produce work.< <
>
> Rote memorization of maps has little usefulness in
> a world of Google. This kid did produce work in
> the other courses it was the history course that
> got him bounced.

It has nothing to do with rote memorization. It has to do with the fact that he didn't produce the work in THAT class.
>
> > > Try telling your boss 'Sorry, I didn't make
> that deadline, but you know how well I know this
> stuff' and see how far that gets you.
>
> As an employer and a business owner, I know that
> there are very few career threatening deadlines in
> the real world.

Again, just try telling your boss 'Sorry I just didn't get around to that' and see what that gets you.
>
> > > I don't know how this kid was 'puzzled' that
> he got expelled when the policy was made very
> clear at the beginning of the school year. This
> sounds like one of those FX families who wants to
> blame everyone else and not take any
> responsibility.< <
>
> This family's older kids didn't have a problem at
> TJ.

That has nothing to do with it. There was a policy put into place at the beginning of the year and yet he is surprised that the administration enforced it.
>
> > Shame on you TM for supporting that attitude!
>
> Why are you hating a family you don't know? This
> story resonates with my own experience of FCPS.
> but I guess that shameful to you. Stay happy in
> your ignorance.
I am not 'hating on' anyone. I am simply saying that that article made the family seem as if they are looking to place blame on someone instead of having their child take responsibility for his actions. Why are you so quick to side with that family? I am not judging them, but you seem so sure that they are right and the school system is to blame. From reading your other posts, that seems to be the pattern. You are always ready to judge schools and teachers as being the 'bad guys'. I am pointing out that there are families (maybe this one and maybe not since I don't know them personally) that do like to place blame on teachers and schools.

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah yes, women teachers are harming our sons.

There is a consensus that this is a problem. It is not true of all female teachers but there does appear to be a cohort of female teachers who are antagonistic toward boys. I have certainly observed it and had that observation comfirmed by adminstrators. So have my sister and sister in law who are both teachers.

It is also true that we need more male high school teachers in the classroom and not just male administrators.

> Female teachers have been the dominant gender

That is certainly true in the classroom.

> Apparently the "antognistic attitude towards boys" pays off.

It's nice that you recognize the challenges which these young men have had to overcome.

blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > It has nothing to do with rote memorization. It has to do with the fact that he didn't produce the work in THAT class.< <

It has everything to do with it. If the assignments serves no apparent purpose, why should any kid care.

Are you saying it's important just because this teacher says to do it.

So obedience is the issue? Wow!

> > Again, just try telling your boss 'Sorry I just didn't get around to that' and see what that gets you.< <

Again, I am a boss and there are very few career ending deadlines in the real world. Is there a reading problem here or a control issue?


> > That has nothing to do with it. There was a policy put into place at the beginning of the year and yet he is surprised that the administration enforced it.< <

So obedience (control) is the issue.

> Why are you so quick to side with that family?

20 years of dealing with FCPS will do that for you.

I have a question TM and it is a sincere one. If you grew up in this area and had such a bad experience in the public school system, why did you stick around and put your children in the same system? Again, I am really curious. I am not trying to be rude.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > It has nothing to do with rote memorization.
> It has to do with the fact that he didn't produce
> the work in THAT class.< <
>
> It has everything to do with it. If the
> assignments serves no apparent purpose, why should
> any kid care.
>
> Are you saying it's important just because this
> teacher says to do it.
>
> So obedience is the issue? Wow!
>
> > > Again, just try telling your boss 'Sorry I
> just didn't get around to that' and see what that
> gets you.< <
>
> Again, I am a boss and there are very few career
> ending deadlines in the real world. Is there a
> reading problem here or a control issue?
>
>
> > > That has nothing to do with it. There was a
> policy put into place at the beginning of the year
> and yet he is surprised that the administration
> enforced it.< <
>
> So obedience (control) is the issue.
>
> > Why are you so quick to side with that family?
>
> 20 years of dealing with FCPS will do that for
> you.


Thomas, I agree with your premise that there is too much busy work, and that there are antagonistic teachers in FCPS. I disagree with the premise that female teachers are harming our sons. We do need more male teachers, but the fact is the dominant gender in generations past has been female, and clearly the majority of males have not been harmed by that.

Our high schools need to focus on what is relevant today to keep the kids engaged and busy work is clearly not important in the real world. However, in this case the family knew what needed to be done, and just like in the real world of work, even if you disagree with your boss, if he gives you work to do, you do it.
While that may not be a lesson that should be taught in school, there were ways for this particular child to "fix things" so that he could stay.

the teacher was upset that the administration didn't inform her of some emails. That is what stood out to me; why didn't the admin inform her, and why didn't the parents communicate with the teacher directly? It has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with communication. Did the kid truly know what he needed to do? Did the family contact the teacher and she didn't follow through? Did the admin think they could deal with it and not bring in the teacher? Did communication shut down? Was the kid pushed into TJ due to older siblings interests in math science and perhaps he was a humanities kid?

I personally think this 3.0 minimum will only cause grade inflation as no teacher, male or female, will want to be the one villified in the press for causing a kid to be kicked out. Can you imagine the pressure these teachers will face to "give" kids certain grades? That pressure already exists and it will only intensify.

That is brilliant....SLPTSA should find a way to make the huge exodus reappear. Instead, they will drive up the enrollment in private school by raking in areas that do not want to be associated with such a loser environment. So, in a few years, they'll increase the boundary...perhaps to edges of the county. Surely, somewhere in this county there are 2000 kids who want to be at SL....or maybe not.


you are so funny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <<>>
>
> You make me laugh! Please explain just how the
> SLHS PTSA could go about "MAKING" kids living
> within their boundary who qualify for TJ STAY at
> SL. When you are finished explaining that, how
> about making all the families sending students to
> private school, tell us how they can go about
> "MAKING" them attend SL too.

Thomas, you are accomplishing a difficult task: getting many of us to side with Neen and FCPS - and against you.

This was not a matter of refusing to learn to find countries on a map without the help of Google. "Allowed to comment under a privacy waiver signed by [the boy's mother, the history teacher said the boy] received zeroes for several writing assignments, including two major essays not turned in on time." The teacher says the boy "rejected her offers to work with him during lunch or activity periods, saying he was too busy with Model United Nations, sports and the yearbook."

Nor was it a matter of not getting along with just one teacher. This student's "final report card in June showed A's in physical education, drivers education and photojournalism. Other marks were not as good: English, B-plus; chemistry, B; pre-calculus, C; French, C; and world history and geography, D."

Come now, TM, does this sound like a TJ student to you?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > I can't believe I actually agree with Neen. I
> hate to tell you TM, but in the 'real world' it is
> not enough to just know your stuff. Sometimes,
> you actually have to produce work.< <
>
> Rote memorization of maps has little usefulness in
> a world of Google. This kid did produce work in
> the other courses it was the history course that
> got him bounced.
>

Economy.....could make an impact.



good idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is brilliant....SLPTSA should find a way to
> make the huge exodus reappear. Instead, they will
> drive up the enrollment in private school by
> raking in areas that do not want to be associated
> with such a loser environment. So, in a few
> years, they'll increase the boundary...perhaps to
> edges of the county. Surely, somewhere in this
> county there are 2000 kids who want to be at
> SL....or maybe not.
>
>
> you are so funny Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > <<>>
> >
> > You make me laugh! Please explain just how the
> > SLHS PTSA could go about "MAKING" kids living
> > within their boundary who qualify for TJ STAY
> at
> > SL. When you are finished explaining that, how
> > about making all the families sending students
> to
> > private school, tell us how they can go about
> > "MAKING" them attend SL too.

blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I have a question TM and it is a sincere one. If you grew up in this area and had such a bad experience in the public school system, why did you stick around and put your children in the same system? Again, I am really curious. I am not trying to be rude.< <

You're certainly not rude but the question procedes from an incorrect premise.

I did not go to any FCPS.

I went to a smaller public school system up north (though there were over 300 in my graduating class) and a parochial school in Mont. Co.

When I returned to this area, I was persuaded by the pr that FCPS were excellent and found to my disappointment that, like so many other too large organizations, the system is mediocre. It's the student body that is outstanding.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blame the (female) teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > It has nothing to do with rote memorization.
> It has to do with the fact that he didn't produce
> the work in THAT class.< <
>
> It has everything to do with it. If the
> assignments serves no apparent purpose, why should
> any kid care.
>
TM, this statement is just so ridiculous. Just to be clear, much, MUCH of what is taught in high school serves no apparent purpose. I guess you favor letting the students decide what work to do, and what work not to do. Why should any kid care? Well, I would think the typical TJ student is concerned about grades, and therefore willing to do the work, regardless of the merit of the material. If this student reasoned otherwise, then that's yet another reason he shouldn't have been in TJ.

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I disagree with the premise that female teachers are harming our sons.< <

We have different experiences as described in my earlier post.

> > why didn't the admin inform her, and why didn't the parents communicate with the teacher directly?< <

Good questions. All my kids' teachers have my e-mail address and I can't tell you how few use it to contact me or reply to my inquiries. The other fun phenomenon is the broadcast e-mail claiming that no one in class has completed an assignment even though I saw my kid's completed paper go into the book bag and when I directly reply, the teacher acknowledges that my kid's assignment was turned in on time.

> > It has to do with communication. Did the kid truly know what he needed to do? Did the family contact the teacher and she didn't follow through? Did the admin think they could deal with it and not bring in the teacher? Did communication shut down? Was the kid pushed into TJ due to older siblings interests in math science and perhaps he was a humanities kid?< <

All excellent questions.

As I wrote, 3 elements resonated with my experience with FCPS. I didn't set out to defend this kid, this family or attack this teacher but explore those three experiences.

More than a history class Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Come now, TM, does this sound like a TJ student to you?< <

I already wrote that. Maybe our posts crossed.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TM, this statement is just so ridiculous. Just to be clear, much, MUCH of what is taught in high school serves no apparent purpose.< <

And that's a good thing? You approve of the instruction of useless material?

> > Why should any kid care?< <

Isn't that the first job of every teacher, to get kids to care?

> Well, I would think the typical TJ student is concerned about grades, and therefore willing to do the work, regardless of the merit of the material?< <

Do you really want that kind of grade grubbing drudge designing your software, aircraft or medical equipment?

Engendering a lifetime of intellectual curiosity is the object of education.

The TJ story shows how ridiculous grade inflation has gotten. Remember when a C used to mean "Adequate grasp of subject matter"

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TM, this statement is just so ridiculous. Just
> to be clear, much, MUCH of what is taught in high
> school serves no apparent purpose.< <
>
> And that's a good thing? You approve of the
> instruction of useless material?
>

Never said it was a good thing, just a statement of fact, and it's been that way a long time, at least since I was in school.

> > > Why should any kid care?< <
>
> Isn't that the first job of every teacher, to get
> kids to care?

What exactly is your point here? The other kids in the class apparently didn't have a problem.

>
> > Well, I would think the typical TJ student is
> concerned about grades, and therefore willing to
> do the work, regardless of the merit of the
> material?< <
>
> Do you really want that kind of grade grubbing
> drudge designing your software, aircraft or
> medical equipment?

Yet another ridiculous remark. It's not grade grubbing. It's the high school student's version of real life. I do lots of crap in life that is in my opinion pointless - mainly because I don't want to deal with the consequences. It's a concept that high school students should learn (actually they should already know it by now). Maybe that's the purpose of the "pointless" school material.

>
> Engendering a lifetime of intellectual curiosity
> is the object of education.

What kind of pointless dribble is this?

Don't ask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Magnets Repel Wrote:
>
> You might look at today's NYT story on summer
> camps:
>
> Catherine Steiner-Adair, a clinical psychologist
> in Massachusetts who consults with residential
> camps, said they can be among the best places for
> children to develop social skills and resilience —
> if only parents allow it.
>
> “If your child doesn’t get the bunk they want or
> you’re worried that he didn’t get the right camp
> counselor, if you convey that kind of response —
> ‘Oh my God, that’s awful, let me call them, it’s
> so unfair’ — that’s the worst possible response a
> parent could have,” she said. “But more of that is
> happening.”
>
> Sounds kinda like redistricting, no?

No. Not a bit. Private, residential camps, chosen by parents, are nothing like being forced to go to South Lakes.

How interesting that the majority here agree, the kid who is being booted out of TJ should not have been there. While I am sure that it will be very difficult for him to return to Robinson, it may be a lesson well learned. He can't expect to ignore the rules for the rest of his life, nor can he refuse to do work that he doesn't want to do in college or life. He may have learned a lesson that was not taught to him previously but one that is very value for his life.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > And that's a good thing? You approve of the instruction of useless material?< <
> Never said it was a good thing, just a statement of fact, and it's been that way a long time, at least since I was in school.<

How sad.

> > Isn't that the first job of every teacher, to get kids to care?

> What exactly is your point here? The other kids in the class apparently didn't have a problem.<

How do you know that?

> Well, I would think the typical TJ student is concerned about grades, and therefore willing to do the work, regardless of the merit of the material?<

Why? Is obedience the highest objective, again. How authoritarian?

> I do lots of crap in life that is in my opinion pointless< <

That's truly sad.

> It's a concept that high school students should learn (actually they should already know it by now).< <

Yeah, let's prepare them for a life of pointless drudgery, apparently everyone should be as unhappy as you.

> Maybe that's the purpose of the "pointless" school material.< <

This is getting depressing.

> > Engendering a lifetime of intellectual curiosity is the object of education.< <
> What kind of pointless dribble is this?<

It's an expression of a central pedagogic tenant. It's revealing to read you've never heard of this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2008 12:27AM by Thomas More.

Comments on the WashPo article on the Nuti boy and TJ:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co

It seems most people think that the young man is in the wrong school and that TJ recognized that too and did the right thing.

I wonder why his parents thought this article would help their son? How would it help? What would it do other than embarrass their lazy son? Surely they didn't think that it would force FCPS to change their mind. So what was their point of exposing their son like this?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SBS Wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------------
>> And that's a good thing? You approve of the instruction of useless material?
>> Never said it was a good thing, just a statement of fact, and it's been that
>> way a long time, at least since I was in school.
>
> How sad...

that you don't realize it.

>
>> Well, I would think the typical TJ student is concerned about grades, and
>> therefore willing to do the work, regardless of the merit of the material?
>
> Why? Is obedience the highest objective, again.
> How authoritarian?

No, but it certainly is not the responsibility of a 9th grader to decide what material is worthwhile and what is not. So, we're forced to rely on the course curriculum. Can most curriculums be improved? Yes.

>> It's a concept that high school students should learn (actually they should already know it by now).
>
> Yeah, let's prepare them for a life of pointless
> drudgery,

It's called requiring a certain level of discipline in students.

>> Maybe that's the purpose of the "pointless" school material.
>
> This is getting depressing.
>

If you think that, then stop reading these posts and replying with your nonsense.

>> Engendering a lifetime of intellectual curiosity is the object of education.
>> What kind of pointless dribble is this?
>
> It's an expression of a central pedagogic tenant.
> It's revealing to read you've never heard of this.

Oh I've heard it before. The point is, it is little more than philosophical dribble in the real world and has little to do with this discussion.

Jeez, please take off those rose-colored sunglasses you have on, and join us in the real world. Everyone has to put up with some form of crap now and then. Maybe you're just too ignorant to recognize when it happens to you.

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> And that's a good thing? You approve of the
> instruction of useless material?
> >> Never said it was a good thing, just a
> statement of fact, and it's been that
> >> way a long time, at least since I was in
> school.
> >
> > How sad
>
> that you don't realize it.

I'm happy for you to reply to my post but don't change my post in the process that's misrepresentation and fundamentally dishonest.

I certainly realize there are sad, angry authoritarian folks in the world. They just shouldn't be running our schools or the curriculum.

> >> Well, I would think the typical TJ student is
> concerned about grades, and therefore willing to do the work, regardless of
> the merit of the material?
> >
> > Why? Is obedience the highest objective, again.
> > How authoritarian?
>
> No, but it certainly is not the responsibility of a 9th grader to decide what material is worthwhile and what is not.

It is his responsibility to know what gets his excitement and passion so he can pursue that area of human activity as a career.

> So, we're forced to rely on the course curriculum. Can most curriculums be improved? Yes.

Yeah, way too much useless makework that doesn't translate into life skills but rather control exercises by uncreative educators.

> >> It's a concept that high school students should
> learn (actually they should already know it by
> now).
> >
> > Yeah, let's prepare them for a life of pointless
> > drudgery,
>
> It's called requiring a certain level of discipline in students.

Back to obedience and control again.

> >> Maybe that's the purpose of the "pointless" school material.

What? To make kids hate learning and see it as an oppressive, stultifying experience which is to be avoided in the future at all costs?

> > This is getting depressing.
>
> If you think that, then stop reading these posts and replying with your nonsense.< <

In the information age, we already require, and our children will rely on, intellectual curiosity and enjoyment of learning to make their way in the word. Passion will be more important in a creative society than discipline which was important on assembly lines.

> >> Engendering a lifetime of intellectual curiosity is the object of education.
> >> What kind of pointless dribble is this?
> >
> > It's an expression of a central pedagogic
> tenant.
> > It's revealing to read you've never heard of
> this.
>
> Oh I've heard it before. The point is, it is little more than philosophical dribble in the real world and has little to do with this discussion.
>
> > Jeez, please take off those rose-colored sunglasses you have on, and join us in the real world. Everyone has to put up with some form of crap now and then. Maybe you're just too ignorant to recognize when it happens to you.< <

That's a first. Many have disagreed with my opinions but no one in 348 pages have suggested I'm ignorant.

What you see as "rose colored glasses" is actually modern management practice used by most successful organizations. Read In search of Excellence to catch up with the rest of society.

What makes you people think that the admissions (criteria) to TJ would care or even know if an older sibling attended?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How interesting that the majority here agree, the
> kid who is being booted out of TJ should not have
> been there. While I am sure that it will be very
> difficult for him to return to Robinson, it may be
> a lesson well learned. He can't expect to ignore
> the rules for the rest of his life, nor can he
> refuse to do work that he doesn't want to do in
> college or life. He may have learned a lesson that
> was not taught to him previously but one that is
> very value for his life.


and he probably can't make the cut for Robinson's football team. even a bigger bummer

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comments on the WashPo article on the Nuti boy and
> TJ:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co
>
> It seems most people think that the young man is
> in the wrong school and that TJ recognized that
> too and did the right thing.
>
> I wonder why his parents thought this article
> would help their son? How would it help? What
> would it do other than embarrass their lazy son?
> Surely they didn't think that it would force FCPS
> to change their mind. So what was their point of
> exposing their son like this?

Newsflash: Almost everyone agrees with you that it was a bad idea that backfired in the court of public opinion.

But do you really need to lay into the kid in no fewer than 6-7 posts over a 12-hour period? He'll get over it; so should you.

There is another thread that discusses whether the SW/SE parts of the Town of Vienna are turning into slums. Perhaps you could now lend your expertise to that topic instead.

Neenologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But do you really need to lay into the kid in no
> fewer than 6-7 posts over a 12-hour period? He'll
> get over it; so should you.
>
> There is another thread that discusses whether the
> SW/SE parts of the Town of Vienna are turning into
> slums. Perhaps you could now lend your expertise
> to that topic instead.

Bless your little heart, you woke up on the wrong side of your cave this morning, didn't you? Did you have another fight with your kid? That's got to be a bummer, those constant spats. Hang in there, summer will over soon enough.

I agree that the mother and father of that poor kid should never have hung out his dirty laundry in the Washington Post. It's horrible what they've done to their son.

Perhaps you need to address your concerns about the TJ/Robinson student to Thomas Moore and SBS since they are posters who are most discussing him. Feel free to include others who you feel need instruction on what to post. We've always enjoyed your attempts to control the behavior of others, as feeble as they may be. Liberals so love to tell everyone else how to live, what to post, and about whom to post it. Be sure to keep us appraised of how that's working for you.

I don't run the town of Vienna nor do I live close to the area in question, so I really can't comment on any of that.

I'm afraid you're stuck with me here. You'll just have to learn to cope, or not.

Hope you feel better soon!

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bless your little heart, you woke up on the wrong
> side of your cave this morning, didn't you? Did
> you have another fight with your kid? That's got
> to be a bummer, those constant spats. Hang in
> there, summer will over soon enough.
>
> I agree that the mother and father of that poor
> kid should never have hung out his dirty laundry
> in the Washington Post. It's horrible what
> they've done to their son.
>
> Perhaps you need to address your concerns about
> the TJ/Robinson student to Thomas Moore and SBS
> since they are posters who are most discussing
> him. Feel free to include others who you feel need
> instruction on what to post. We've always enjoyed
> your attempts to control the behavior of others,
> as feeble as they may be. Liberals so love to
> tell everyone else how to live, what to post, and
> about whom to post it. Be sure to keep us
> appraised of how that's working for you.
>
> I don't run the town of Vienna nor do I live close
> to the area in question, so I really can't comment
> on any of that.
>
> I'm afraid you're stuck with me here. You'll just
> have to learn to cope, or not.
>
> Hope you feel better soon!

To answer your question, no fights and no put-downs at my house. Probably not an environment you would recognize or in which you'd feel too comfortable.

I'm glad that you consider roughly a mile away from the Vienna hot spots to be a world away. Real estate buyers in your neck of the woods, of course, may have a slightly different perspective.

By the way, what's up with the third person today ("We've always enjoyed
your attempts to control the behavior of others, as feeble as they may be.")? You may want to let a professional know that you've been having these delusions of grandeur.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I don't run the town of Vienna nor do I live close
> to the area in question, so I really can't comment
> on any of that.

You don't run FCPS, the school board, South Lakes etc., nor do you live in the redistricted zone, yet you comment on those issues.

it's called being a concerned, informed citizen, hello.

I guess if Neen said nothing, you'd criticize her for being apathetic, no?

The RD was precedent-setting in the way it was done. On that basis alone, anyone should be able to comment.

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> I don't run the town of Vienna nor do I live
> close
> > to the area in question, so I really can't
> comment
> > on any of that.
>
> You don't run FCPS, the school board, South Lakes
> etc., nor do you live in the redistricted zone,
> yet you comment on those issues.

duh2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's called being a concerned, informed citizen,
> hello.
>
> I guess if Neen said nothing, you'd criticize her
> for being apathetic, no?
>
> The RD was precedent-setting in the way it was
> done. On that basis alone, anyone should be able
> to comment.
>
> curious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> I don't run the town of Vienna nor do I live
> > close
> > > to the area in question, so I really can't
> > comment
> > > on any of that.
> >
> > You don't run FCPS, the school board, South
> Lakes
> > etc., nor do you live in the redistricted zone,
> > yet you comment on those issues.


It's called being consistent, hello. I rarely agree with Neen, but I don't actually begrudge her discussing the RD, FCPS etc., she simply made a silly statement in regards to the Vienna issue when she said that since she doesn't run the town nor live in that part of it that she can't comment.

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> I don't run the town of Vienna nor do I live
> close
> > to the area in question, so I really can't
> comment
> > on any of that.
>
> You don't run FCPS, the school board, South Lakes
> etc., nor do you live in the redistricted zone,
> yet you comment on those issues.

You are correct, I don't run any of those things, but I do pay for them. That gives me license to comment.

Anyone believe that Neen and Thomas Moore are the same person? Split personalities that like to talk to each other?

Neenologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad that you consider roughly a mile away
> from the Vienna hot spots to be a world away.
> Real estate buyers in your neck of the woods, of
> course, may have a slightly different perspective.

You couldn't be more wrong. The house across the street from mine sold in 4 days this month, for the highest price EVER in my neighborhood. Two months ago, the second highest price ever, same house, around the corner. Probably because of Madison and the metro, both being less than a mile away.

Don't you ever grow weary of being wrong?

It would appear not.

Doctor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone believe that Neen and Thomas Moore are the
> same person? Split personalities that like to
> talk to each other?

Hahaha, you flatter me. I wish I had his vocabulary.

While I am flattered, no doubt that Mr. More is insulted since he is a democrat and I am quite obviously not.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You couldn't be more wrong. The house across the
> street from mine sold in 4 days this month, for
> the highest price EVER in my neighborhood. Two
> months ago, the second highest price ever, same
> house, around the corner. Probably because of
> Madison and the metro, both being less than a mile
> away.
>
> Don't you ever grow weary of being wrong?
>
> It would appear not.

Somehow I don't think the aging of a Vienna neighborhood where many of the houses are now worth less than $500K, combined with the crime and overcrowding in Vienna Park and other nearby apartment complex, bodes all that well for the future of Madison. "Location, location, location" can be a double-edged sword.

Fortunately, not all other areas of the county are exposed to such risks. So, no, I won't be all that upset if I turn out to be wrong about what your neck of the "woods" is going to look like in a few years.

FairfaxCAPS lawsuit cost - Sweet deal for the lawyer who suckered everybody in

Cost? Our total cost for this legal action will be approximately $135,000. This is relatively inexpensive, despite how it sounds. It is actually less than one-third of the original estimated cost for this case. Thanks to your FairfaxCAPS volunteers, we have been able to contain costs. Volunteers spent hundreds of hours developing and building the challenge to this troubling School Board action into a very strong case. Our outside litigating attorney, Steven Stone, is a well-respected education law attorney who is doing a fine job. He also has done everything possible to contain costs. To date we have paid $120,000 in legal fees and have $15,000 remaining to pay.

Neenologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Somehow I don't think the aging of a Vienna
> neighborhood where many of the houses are now
> worth less than $500K, combined with the crime and
> overcrowding in Vienna Park and other nearby
> apartment complex, bodes all that well for the
> future of Madison. "Location, location, location"
> can be a double-edged sword.
>
> Fortunately, not all other areas of the county are
> exposed to such risks. So, no, I won't be all
> that upset if I turn out to be wrong about what
> your neck of the "woods" is going to look like in
> a few years.

Sorry, I don't live in Vienna Woods and haven't for 22 years. But thanks for playing. You might want to update your files and try zillow.com or just a map.

The ghetto part of Vienna is so tiny, I wouldn't worry about it effecting Madison. It hasn't yet and it's not a growing area, it's rather limited. It's nothing like the ghetto areas of Reston which seem to be expanding and they certainly effect Hughes and South Lakes. If they didn't, we wouldn't be here today, would we?

Waster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FairfaxCAPS lawsuit cost - Sweet deal for the
> lawyer who suckered everybody in
>
> Cost? Our total cost for this legal action will be
> approximately $135,000. This is relatively
> inexpensive, despite how it sounds. It is actually
> less than one-third of the original estimated cost
> for this case. Thanks to your FairfaxCAPS
> volunteers, we have been able to contain costs.
> Volunteers spent hundreds of hours developing and
> building the challenge to this troubling School
> Board action into a very strong case. Our outside
> litigating attorney, Steven Stone, is a
> well-respected education law attorney who is doing
> a fine job. He also has done everything possible
> to contain costs. To date we have paid $120,000 in
> legal fees and have $15,000 remaining to pay.

If you win tomorrow, it will be well worth it. It will stop the school board dead in it's tracks. They will never again do this to another community. But I don't think they will do that again anyway. They learned a valuable lesson that they can't jerk people around, not even those with less money than Langley people.

Neenologist,
As close as you are to your school, don't you worry about the ghetto closing in on you?

Just wondering.

BTW, I am looking for those bargain houses under $500,000 in Vienna and finding next to none. Perhaps you could show us some links. A friend's son is looking for a good buy in Vienna, a single family home, not a townhouse or condo. I found this list, but only a handful of single family homes are under $500,000 and they're almost all under contract and none seem to be near the ghetto apartments. Any ideas where I can look for all those homes under $500,000?
http://homes.longandfoster.com/Real-Estate/Quick-Search.aspx?Baths=0&Beds=0&MinPrice=350000&MaxPrice=500000&SearchString=+Vienna&State=VA&SearchType=ExternalQS&ViewStatus=listView&SearchCategory=Buying&sec=Buying

Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2008 01:05AM by Neen.

I would never use Long and Foster. Neen are u trying to flip some houses? Why do you talk about Real Estate in this thread? We are talking about education.

Here is AP vs IB: Most schools are giving more credits to IB
Attachments:

Shouldn't it be "affecting", 'cause "effect" is a noun? At least I think that's what I remember from my crappy years at Madison.



Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen (IP Logged)
Date: July 28, 2008 12:53AM


Sorry, I don't live in Vienna Woods and haven't for 22 years. But thanks for playing. You might want to update your files and try zillow.com or just a map.

The ghetto part of Vienna is so tiny, I wouldn't worry about it effecting Madison. It hasn't yet and it's not a growing area, it's rather limited. It's nothing like the ghetto areas of Reston which seem to be expanding and they certainly effect Hughes and South Lakes. If they didn't, we wouldn't be here today, would we?

In regards to "making" kids who go to private schools return to SL, you asked what could be done.

The first step would be to improve the general education thread. The IB focus where many of the resources needed by general ed, certainly is not drawing the numbers of student that was hoped for.




good idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is brilliant....SLPTSA should find a way to
> make the huge exodus reappear. Instead, they will
> drive up the enrollment in private school by
> raking in areas that do not want to be associated
> with such a loser environment. So, in a few
> years, they'll increase the boundary...perhaps to
> edges of the county. Surely, somewhere in this
> county there are 2000 kids who want to be at
> SL....or maybe not.
>
>
> you are so funny Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > <<>>
> >
> > You make me laugh! Please explain just how the
> > SLHS PTSA could go about "MAKING" kids living
> > within their boundary who qualify for TJ STAY
> at
> > SL. When you are finished explaining that, how
> > about making all the families sending students
> to
> > private school, tell us how they can go about
> > "MAKING" them attend SL too.

AP vs IB Wrote:
AP vs IB Wrote:
> Here is AP vs IB: Most schools are giving more
> credits to IB

---------------------
How many times do we have to point out IB High Level Courses last two years and AP courses are only one?

Your charts are both incorrect and incomplete. See:
http://artsandsciences.virginia.edu/college/classes/ap_credit.html
http://artsandsciences.virginia.edu/college/classes/international_exams.html#a3

IB Isaac takes two years of IB HL History and scores an "above average" 5 out of 7. He gets no credit from UVA. In the meantime, AP Afred takes AP World History as a sophomore, AP US History in his junior year, and AP US and Comparative Government as a senior, and scores an "above average" 4 out of 5 on all three. He gets 3 World Civ credits, 8 US history credits, and 6 government credits from UVA.

IB Isaac takes two years of IB HL English and scores a top score of 7. [By the way, in 06-07 only five students in all of FCPS earned a "seven" in HL English.] Isaac gets three credits from UVA. AP Afred takes AP US English Composition in his junior year and and AP English Literature in his senior year and scores a top score of 5 on both. He gets six credits from UVA.

IB Isaac takes two years of IB Chemistry and scores an above-average five, earning him six credits at UVA. [In 06-07 NO repeat NO FCPS students earned a "seven" in either HL Chemistry or HL Biology.] AP Alfred takes a year of AP Chem and a year of AP Bio and earns an above-average four in each, which give him twelve credits at UVA.

So far IB Isaac has nine credits from UVA. AP Alfred has 35 credits from UVA.

That is probably all the credits Issac can get at UVA because they award NO credit for Standard-Level (SL) IB coursework. But perhaps IB Isaac is one of the rare IB students who takes a fourth IB HL course, earned in the core subject of math. He does well and gets seven more credits from UVA. [In 06-07 only ONE student in all of FCPS earned a "seven" in HL Math.]

Meanwhile, AP Alfred takes AP BC Calculus, which is somehow missing from your UVA list. His above-average score of 4 gets him eight credits at UVA, plus another three credits for the "four" he earns in Statistics his senior year. That gives AP Alfred 46 credits at UVA.

Alfred gets additional AP credits from UVA for foreign language and other electives, but you get the idea. AP students are far more likely to earn far more college credit than are students in IB schools.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neenologist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> > Somehow I don't think the aging of a Vienna
> > neighborhood where many of the houses are now
> > worth less than $500K, combined with the crime
> and
> > overcrowding in Vienna Park and other nearby
> > apartment complex, bodes all that well for the
> > future of Madison. "Location, location,
> location"
> > can be a double-edged sword.
> >
> > Fortunately, not all other areas of the county
> are
> > exposed to such risks. So, no, I won't be all
> > that upset if I turn out to be wrong about what
> > your neck of the "woods" is going to look like
> in
> > a few years.
>
> Sorry, I don't live in Vienna Woods and haven't
> for 22 years. But thanks for playing. You might
> want to update your files and try zillow.com or
> just a map.
>
> The ghetto part of Vienna is so tiny, I wouldn't
> worry about it effecting Madison. It hasn't yet
> and it's not a growing area, it's rather limited.
> It's nothing like the ghetto areas of Reston which
> seem to be expanding and they certainly effect
> Hughes and South Lakes. If they didn't, we
> wouldn't be here today, would we?


"Affecting" Madison, please!....(insert gratuitous remark about IB education from somea snarky poster).

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neenologist,
> As close as you are to your school, don't you
> worry about the ghetto closing in on you?
>
> Just wondering.
>
> BTW, I am looking for those bargain houses under
> $500,000 in Vienna and finding next to none.
> Perhaps you could show us some links. A friend's
> son is looking for a good buy in Vienna, a single
> family home, not a townhouse or condo. I found
> this list, but only a handful of single family
> homes are under $500,000 and they're almost all
> under contract and none seem to be near the ghetto
> apartments. Any ideas where I can look for all
> those homes under $500,000?
> Thanks.

Neen - Feel free to define or redefine your neighborhood as you wish. FYI - here is some information from the viennacitizens web site:


South Vienna Crime Stats
Here are the crime statistics provided by the Vienna Police Department, for South East (SE) and South West (SW) Vienna, for September 2006 - September 2007. These were not published by the town, and according to the police, are not complete. As a reminder, South Vienna is located south of Maple Avenue. SE and SW Vienna are separated by Desale and Center Streets. South Vienna is where most of the illegals live. The Vienna Park Apartments and Cedar Park Shopping Center are located in SE Vienna.


South Vienna Arrests (Sept. 06-07) SE SW
Arson 1 0
Vandalism 45 29
Weapons 2 4
Drugs 22 16
Rape 4 0
Auto Theft 6 4
Drunk in Public 46 16
Drunk and Disorderly 6 2
Simple/Aggravated Assault 39 27
Domestic Assault (separate from other assaults) 11 7
Grand/Petty Larceny 79 57
Burglary (break in w/intent to larceny) 10 11
Robbery (larceny w/escalating violence) 7 4

As you see, SW Vienna is not exactly immune from problems, either. Both SE and SW Vienna lie entirely in the Madison attendance area. These problems aren't unique to the Town of Vienna, of course. Don't be surprised if the Madison administration seeks advice from Bruce Butler and his staff at South Lakes within a few years.

Your loyal reader(s) look forward to more tales from your Vienna Bubble neighborhood in the future.

Yes, we are talking about education....but some houses in the Madison Island redistricted to South Lakes are selling at or below tax value.....

This is not so in the Vienna zip code 22180 where students go to the Madison pyramid. People just did not talk about house values dropping with the redistricting. That was not "politically correct."

SO AP VS IB WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION AND HOUSE VALUES.

and I am shouting.


Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would never use Long and Foster. Neen are u
> trying to flip some houses? Why do you talk about
> Real Estate in this thread? We are talking about
> education.
>
> Here is AP vs IB: Most schools are giving more
> credits to IB

"By the way, what's up with the third person today ("We've always enjoyed
your attempts to control the behavior of others, as feeble as they may be.")? You may want to let a professional know that you've been having these delusions of grandeur."

Sorry, but Neen used the first person plural, not the third person. It's also knows as the Royal We.

Taxpayer #1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, we are talking about education....but some
> houses in the Madison Island redistricted to South
> Lakes are selling at or below tax value.....
>
> This is not so in the Vienna zip code 22180 where
> students go to the Madison pyramid. People just
> did not talk about house values dropping with the
> redistricting. That was not "politically
> correct."

Numb nut, people are losing their shirts in real estate because of home flipping shows inflating values and bad loans. It has nothing to do with redistricting. Those houses were WAY over priced to start with. Only a fool would buy there.

hoooly shit.

Neenologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neenologist,
> > As close as you are to your school, don't you
> > worry about the ghetto closing in on you?
> >
> > Just wondering.
> >
> > BTW, I am looking for those bargain houses
> under
> > $500,000 in Vienna and finding next to none.
> > Perhaps you could show us some links. A
> friend's
> > son is looking for a good buy in Vienna, a
> single
> > family home, not a townhouse or condo. I found
> > this list, but only a handful of single family
> > homes are under $500,000 and they're almost all
> > under contract and none seem to be near the
> ghetto
> > apartments. Any ideas where I can look for all
> > those homes under $500,000?
> > Thanks.
>
> Neen - Feel free to define or redefine your
> neighborhood as you wish. FYI - here is some
> information from the viennacitizens web site:
>
>
> South Vienna Crime Stats
> Here are the crime statistics provided by the
> Vienna Police Department, for South East (SE) and
> South West (SW) Vienna, for September 2006 -
> September 2007. These were not published by the
> town, and according to the police, are not
> complete. As a reminder, South Vienna is located
> south of Maple Avenue. SE and SW Vienna are
> separated by Desale and Center Streets. South
> Vienna is where most of the illegals live. The
> Vienna Park Apartments and Cedar Park Shopping
> Center are located in SE Vienna.
>
>
> South Vienna Arrests (Sept. 06-07) SE SW
> Arson 1 0
> Vandalism 45 29
> Weapons 2 4
> Drugs 22 16
> Rape 4 0
> Auto Theft 6 4
> Drunk in Public 46 16
> Drunk and Disorderly 6 2
> Simple/Aggravated Assault 39 27
> Domestic Assault (separate from other assaults) 11
> 7
> Grand/Petty Larceny 79 57
> Burglary (break in w/intent to larceny) 10 11
> Robbery (larceny w/escalating violence) 7 4
>
> As you see, SW Vienna is not exactly immune from
> problems, either. Both SE and SW Vienna lie
> entirely in the Madison attendance area. These
> problems aren't unique to the Town of Vienna, of
> course. Don't be surprised if the Madison
> administration seeks advice from Bruce Butler and
> his staff at South Lakes within a few years.
>
> Your loyal reader(s) look forward to more tales
> from your Vienna Bubble neighborhood in the
> future.

Woweeeee........4 robberies in a year! And 2 arrests for being drunk and disorderly in a year! My goodness! Alert the media!

Let's see the stats for your neck of the 'woods' of Reston.

does anyone know how the judges issues his recommendation? is there a meeting, hearing, or town crier?

The judge will most likely wait until late in the day to issue his judgement. This will limit the amount of spin a group can get out to the media.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Woweeeee........4 robberies in a year! And 2
> arrests for being drunk and disorderly in a year!
> My goodness! Alert the media!
>
> Let's see the stats for your neck of the 'woods'
> of Reston.

I don't need to alert the media. Your neighbors in SE/SW Vienna already took care of that. You really should contact them and let them know their concerns are exaggerated. You can tell them about the record prices being paid for proximity to the Metro, Madison and you (or is it you, Madison, and the Metro?).

And, while you are it, you should stop by Thoreau and let those parents who are concerned with the school's location directly across from the Cedar Park apartments and the 7-11 know that they have no cause for concern, either.

I tried to find the "stats" for my neighborhood, but couldn't. Apparently it is so calm compared to SE/SW Vienna that no citizen group feels a need to compile them separately and publicize them to get attention.

Neenologist,
Are you aware of how racist you sound? How overly concerned you are about Hispanics in Vienna? Hispanics near a middle school? Has the crime rate at Thoreau increased? No. What is your fixation with Vienna's Hispanics? It's rather strange, and rather creepy. Might it have something to do with your neighborhood's proximity to a school known to have problems? One that needs more whites and Asians?

LOL

I mean really Neen and Neenologist-take your petty squabbling outside. You are boring the rest of us. Nobody cares about home prices in Madison district.

A more honest discussion might include the high drug use at that school-much more interesting.

later Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The judge will most likely wait until late in the
> day to issue his judgement. This will limit the
> amount of spin a group can get out to the media.

Gee, that's a pretty safe bet, at this time of day.

Why is that? So he can get home before the stuff hits the fan? How is the ruling issued? I have no doubt that the press is waiting, hoping to make the 5:00 local news.

After the ruling, we can move on to discussing SB appeals. There is much more spin to come!

TTFN, life beckons.