CruellaS. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can't see behind this mask of new scenarios?
> C'mon, this is just another ploy. The reality is
> beginning to sunset. What we have here are new
> scenarios that represent the ultimate depth Stu
> and Kathy will go to get their way. Nothing more
> can happen, now, except communities go against
> communities. Fox Mill against Fox Mill, Oak Hill
> against Oak Hill, Floris against Floris. These
> neighbors get the special invitation to throw each
> other under the bus on the 19th. So in the end it
> will appear that everybody supports Option 5.
> Half of Fox Mill, 2/3's of Floris, half/or all of
> Oak Hill will relent to the favored South Lakes
> PTA Option 5 or shrug and support split feeders
> (there are some hidden fruits hanging out there).
> It is all a big game. Quite amusing to Stu and
> Kathy. Very cruel for these communities. Wake
> up, this is NOT over.

I so hope that everyone pays you heed. This is definitely NOT over. The three scenarios on the table will have to reconciled to one NEW scenario for the final vote on the 28th. No one knows what that will look like.

Please people, get the word out to ALL communities, this is NOT over!

Neen, I haven't been reading here very long, but I ask, "Why do you seem to have it in for South Lakes? What has South Lakes ever done to you? You say you live in Vienna, so I don't understand why you try so hard to sabotage this redistricting.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CruellaS. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You can't see behind this mask of new scenarios?
>
> > C'mon, this is just another ploy. The reality
> is
> > beginning to sunset. What we have here are new
> > scenarios that represent the ultimate depth Stu
> > and Kathy will go to get their way. Nothing
> more
> > can happen, now, except communities go against
> > communities. Fox Mill against Fox Mill, Oak
> Hill
> > against Oak Hill, Floris against Floris. These
> > neighbors get the special invitation to throw
> each
> > other under the bus on the 19th. So in the end
> it
> > will appear that everybody supports Option 5.
> > Half of Fox Mill, 2/3's of Floris, half/or all
> of
> > Oak Hill will relent to the favored South Lakes
> > PTA Option 5 or shrug and support split feeders
> > (there are some hidden fruits hanging out
> there).
> > It is all a big game. Quite amusing to Stu and
> > Kathy. Very cruel for these communities. Wake
> > up, this is NOT over.
>
> I so hope that everyone pays you heed. This is
> definitely NOT over. The three scenarios on the
> table will have to reconciled to one NEW scenario
> for the final vote on the 28th. No one knows what
> that will look like.
>
> Please people, get the word out to ALL
> communities, this is NOT over!

Procedurally don't see new reconciliation proposal between these proposals. They will start with motion for Facilities proposal. It will get second. Then someone will make an amendment...it could be for new proposal like 11b or 12 or it could be for a delay or it could be to remove Navy. Then there will be other amendments. It takes 7 votes to pass

If nothing passes they will return to main motion

The motions will be structured in careful order

Where others seem to see grand plans, masterminding and nefarious schemes, to me this latest turn of events just proves how weak, inept and out of touch this school board really is. Garbage-in, Garbage-out managment style. Judging by existing school boundaries probably all previous boards have been run the same way.

18 shot, gunman dead at Northern Illinois University

* Story Highlights
* CNN confirms gunman, who opened fire in a lecture building, is dead
* 18 people shot, many in the head, according to a hospital official
* NEW: Gunman "just kicked the door open, just started shooting," witness says
* NEW: At least three in critical condition; 8 stable; six in good condition

(CNN) -- A person shot 18 people Thursday at Northern Illinois University's DeKalb campus outside Chicago, then fatally shot himself, the school said, citing police.

The shooter, dressed in black, walked out from behind a screen in a geology class taking place in 600-seat lecture hall and opened fire, NIU president John Peters said during a 6:30 p.m. ET press conference.

Many victims were shot in the head, said Theresa Comitas, spokeswoman for Kishwaukee Community Hospital, about 10 minutes from the school.

At least three victims are in critical condition, eight are in stable condition and six are in good condition, a hospital official tells CNN.

One of the wounded was transferred by helicopter to Rockford Hospital, she said. There were no fatalities at the hospital, she said.

According to the Chicago Tribune, the DeKalb County coroner's office said no fatalities had been immediately reported.

At 4 p.m. (5 p.m. ET), the school said there was no further danger and that counselors would be made available.

A law enforcement official being briefed on the situation told CNN that the shooter used at least one shotgun. The official declined to be identified further because the incident was still developing.

Kevin Mcenery said he witnessed the shooting.

The gunman "just kicked the door open, just started shooting. All I really heard was just people screaming, yelling get out," he said.

"Close to 30 shots were fired."

"He was wearing a black shirt, dark pants, black hat. ... He started with a shotgun, then turned to a pistol."

Rosie Moroni, a student at the school, told CNN she was outside Cole Hall near the King Commons at 2:30 p.m. (3:30 p.m. ET) when she heard shots coming from the classroom she had intended to enter.

The shot was followed by "a lot of people screaming," then people ran out the doors yelling, "He's got a gun, call 9-1-1," she said.

"It was complete chaos ... it's very scary here right now."

"It has been confirmed that there has been a shooting on campus and several people have been taken away by ambulance," the school said in the posting on its DeKalb campus Web site. "All classes are canceled on the DeKalb campus. People are urged not to come to campus."

Friday classes also are canceled at the school's DeKalb campus.

"All NIU students are asked to call their parents as soon as possible," the school said in a posting.

The 113-year-old school is 65 miles west of downtown Chicago and has an enrollment of more than 25,000. The campus covers 755 acres.

A spokesman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told CNN that some of its agents were already on the scene to assist.

He said ATF agents could help trace the weapon or weapons used.

An FBI spokesman said several of that agency's agents were en route to the scene to assist.

A woman named Corrine described the scene to CLTV, saying she was "carried out" of Cole Hall by a "wave" of students running for their lives.

"When one of the kids said, 'This guy is shooting!' I just ran to the next building as fast as I could and hid in an empty classroom."

Thomas More Wrote:

>
> Aldrin for McNair?
>
> Reston kids at Reston's high school - SL


Not clear how this helps anyone.

From the boundary map, it looks like Aldrin (and Armstrong, for that matter) is much closer to HHS than it is to SLHS, and there isn't much traffic congestion between them, either. What is gained by switching them to SLHS, except longer commutes for them and more traffic for everyone in their path?

As for McNair, there is the relatively congested Town of Herndon between them and HHS. All there is between McNair and Westfield is 28S, against traffic.

A Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> >
> > Aldrin for McNair?
> >
> > Reston kids at Reston's high school - SL
>
>
> Not clear how this helps anyone.
>
> From the boundary map, it looks like Aldrin (and
> Armstrong, for that matter) is much closer to HHS
> than it is to SLHS, and there isn't much traffic
> congestion between them, either. What is gained
> by switching them to SLHS, except longer commutes
> for them and more traffic for everyone in their
> path?
>
> As for McNair, there is the relatively congested
> Town of Herndon between them and HHS. All there
> is between McNair and Westfield is 28S, against
> traffic.

You make it very convinient right !! McNair can go to Westfields because they are going against traffic on 28. Yet Floris can't go to Westfields; even though they are farther south of McNair? Just does not make any sense.

Newbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen, I haven't been reading here very long, but I
> ask, "Why do you seem to have it in for South
> Lakes? What has South Lakes ever done to you?
> You say you live in Vienna, so I don't understand
> why you try so hard to sabotage this
> redistricting.

You are no newbie! Neen is as she claims, she may be getting to you now because you know you have lost SL. She has been posting the same way since the first pages of this thread. She offers great insight and real data.
Neen you dont know me, I dont know you. I feel very sorry for the kids and for everyone else involved in this shit. I can not stand that Stu Gibson. He is not a nice person.
"Sabotage this redistricting" poster, doesnt need your help. They are doing just fine at sabotaging their own redistricting. This person should be ashamed of themself. Why dont you NEWBIE put yourself in the position of these kids for 5 minutes or of their parents. Who do you think you are and honestly what do you think you will accomplish besides causing anguish. This is ugly and you all have made it so.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-
>
> You make it very convinient right !! McNair can go
> to Westfields because they are going against
> traffic on 28. Yet Floris can't go to Westfields;
> even though they are farther south of McNair? Just
> does not make any sense.

I would think the same would apply to Floris.

Re: "From the boundary map, it looks like Aldrin (and Armstrong, for that matter) is much closer to HHS than it is to SLHS, and there isn't much traffic congestion between them, either. What is gained by switching them to SLHS, except longer commutes for them and more traffic for everyone in their path?"

This makes sense for Armstrong, which is mostly Herndon or on the border of Herndon.

Aldrin is more of a mix...part close to Herndon, but part is about equidistant between HHS and South Lakes. Most of Aldrin is closer to South Lakes than most of Floris is.

The biggest win in travel would be to get Forestville to Herndon vs. Langley...check out the travel differential there, its among the worst in the county, if not the worst. Tbey're not complaining at all though...travel complaints are very subjective.

"The biggest win in travel would be to get Forestville to Herndon vs. Langley.."

The problem is that Langley (supposedly) isn't a school that needs to be emptied out, Westfield and Chantilly (supposedly) do. If you look at the FCPS website, there is some blather about why Langley wasn't included and why Langley is getting an addition. To sum it up, Langley is one of the smallest physical high schools in the county, so an addition is warranted (again, supposedly). I've heard there are many trailers at Langley. Funny thing is that I actually graduated from Langley, and at that time it was the same enrollment as it is now and we had maybe 2-3 trailers at most. Clearly they are using their space differently than it was used back in the day.

Can you even imagine telling Forestville they are going to HHS? Nothing against HHS, but I think you see the problem...

A Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> > Aldrin for McNair?
> >
> > Reston kids at Reston's high school - SL
>
> Not clear how this helps anyone.
>
> From the boundary map, it looks like Aldrin (and
> Armstrong, for that matter) is much closer to HHS
> than it is to SLHS, and there isn't much traffic
> congestion between them, either. What is gained
> by switching them to SLHS, except longer commutes
> for them and more traffic for everyone in their
> path?
>
> As for McNair, there is the relatively congested
> Town of Herndon between them and HHS. All there
> is between McNair and Westfield is 28S, against
> traffic.

Aldrin is closer to SL than most of Forest Edge, Floris or Fox Mill

and ITS MOSTLY IN RESTON!

Tully says South Lakes needs 1700 kids minimum to get course selection comparable to the other FCPS hs. All the other justifications for the RD have been severely challenged. This one might be suspect also, given the existing disproportionate student teacher ratio.

So moving 300 Aldrin kids from HHS to SL and 360 kids from Westfield to HHS impacts on 660 kids. Less than Options 5, 11b or 12.

If they can live with McNair under 11b and 12, they ought to be able to live with Aldrin for McNair.

So what's the HHS PTA's excuse this time?

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing against HHS, but I think you
> see the problem...

I had nothing against HHS until they turned up en mass at the 3rd public meeting to throw everyone else under the bus when they realized that option 5 left them alone

The HHS people in my room were suddenly even more pro-RD than the SLHS folks!

aldrin + SLHS = problem solved Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had nothing against HHS until they turned up en
> mass at the 3rd public meeting to throw everyone
> else under the bus when they realized that option
> 5 left them alone
>
> The HHS people in my room were suddenly even more
> pro-RD than the SLHS folks!

Let's be very clear, Fox Mill and Floris parents, the sources of your pain are, in order of guilt:

1) HHS PTA (we're holding the astronauts hostage and we aren't letting them go no matter what)

2) Janie (I hate Reston, and I'm not that crazy about Herndon, but God, do I slurp Langley) Strauss

3) Stuy (his unethical craveness) Gibson

Someone want to prioritize differently, no arguments, but you got to have better wisecracks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2008 08:57PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Troll Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > > Aldrin for McNair?
> > >
> > > Reston kids at Reston's high school - SL
> >
> > Not clear how this helps anyone.
> >
> > From the boundary map, it looks like Aldrin
> (and
> > Armstrong, for that matter) is much closer to
> HHS
> > than it is to SLHS, and there isn't much
> traffic
> > congestion between them, either. What is
> gained
> > by switching them to SLHS, except longer
> commutes
> > for them and more traffic for everyone in their
> > path?
> >
> > As for McNair, there is the relatively
> congested
> > Town of Herndon between them and HHS. All
> there
> > is between McNair and Westfield is 28S, against
> > traffic.
>
> Aldrin is closer to SL than most of Forest Edge,
> Floris or Fox Mill
>
> and ITS MOSTLY IN RESTON!
>
> Tully says South Lakes needs 1700 kids minimum to
> get course selection comparable to the other FCPS
> hs. All the other justifications for the RD have
> been severely challenged. This one might be
> suspect also, given the existing disproportionate
> student teacher ratio.
>
> So moving 300 Aldrin kids from HHS to SL and 360
> kids from Westfield to HHS impacts on 660 kids.
> Less than Options 5, 11b or 12.
>
> If they can live with McNair under 11b and 12,
> they ought to be able to live with Aldrin for
> McNair.
>
> So what's the HHS PTA's excuse this time?


If we can start a campaign to have HHS have McNair and Aldrin back to Reston, then let the SB know. It is absolutely ridiculous that the two Reston schools right in the Special Tax district go to HHS. I used to live in Reston and have always wondered why Reston wasn't united as one. For once Stu has got to stop making illegal promises and learn how not to act like a slimy douchbag as quoted by MJ.

So again, Reston kids at Reston's hs..South Lakes.

"I had nothing against HHS until they turned up en mass at the 3rd public meeting to throw everyone else under the bus when they realized that option 5 left them alone

The HHS people in my room were suddenly even more pro-RD than the SLHS folks!"

Yes, that was true in my room also. At least the McNair folks, who at that point were not in play anymore, had the decency to ask real questions and try to comprehend the reasoning for the RD, which was naturally a futile effort. Maybe the only just solution is for anyone, from any school, who supported RD to send THEIR kids to SL. If only there were some way to determine that, some sort of written document, hmm, maybe a petition that has 500 signatures? Surely there are enough non-SL folks on there to get some play. And THEY aren't allowed to pupil place out!

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
> ... And THEY aren't
> allowed to pupil place out!

----
Unfair penalty to place on ANY student in ANY FCPS high school.

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I had nothing against HHS until they turned up en
> mass at the 3rd public meeting to throw everyone
> else under the bus when they realized that option
> 5 left them alone
>
> The HHS people in my room were suddenly even more
> pro-RD than the SLHS folks!"
>
> Yes, that was true in my room also. At least the
> McNair folks, who at that point were not in play
> anymore, had the decency to ask real questions and
> try to comprehend the reasoning for the RD, which
> was naturally a futile effort. Maybe the only just
> solution is for anyone, from any school, who
> supported RD to send THEIR kids to SL. If only
> there were some way to determine that, some sort
> of written document, hmm, maybe a petition that
> has 500 signatures? Surely there are enough non-SL
> folks on there to get some play. And THEY aren't
> allowed to pupil place out!


Didn't SL have an open enrollment for any student to be pupil placed to SL or was that strictly for the IB program?

Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
>
> > > But from the outside looking it, shouldn't
> they
> > be looking to J.E.B. Stuart
> > > (which is comparable in size, actually more
> > challenged in terms of demographics)
> > > for some inspiration and ideas, since on a
> > statistical,
> > > demographically-adjusted basis Stuart is
> > significantly outperforming SL?
> >
> > Exactly, so just what are they doing
> differently
> > at Stuart?
>
>
> Take a look at this
>
> http://www.principals.org/s_nassp/sec.asp?CID=891&;
> DID=53684

Mel Riddle was a great principal and responsible for the positive growth in scores at Stuart. However, many of his programs were not popular with the democrats on our school board. I heard one of them say that she thought some of Riddle's requirements at Stuart "might be illegal". Among other things, she was referring to him forcing kids to stay after school to complete assignments that they had failed to do for homework and students who were falling behind. While Riddle was praised by many sources, including National Geographic, NASSP, President Bush, and the federal department of Education, he was not often praised by FCPS. They were highly suspect of his methods even though his methods were successful.

For many years there were a number of us who pressed FCPS to duplicate Mel Riddle's methods in other failing schools, including South Lakes and Mt. Vernon. Stu Gibson refused. The administration and the school board did not want to discuss the success of Mel Riddle at Stuart. It almost seemed like they were embarrassed by the success of Stuart. Or it went against their ideology. I can't explain it.

I do not understand why FCPS can't force principals to use methods that work, but they can't. Or they won't. Stuart has worked, South Lakes hasn't. Yet FCPS won't force any failing school to use the proven methods that Mel Riddle used. Many title 1 elementary schools out preform Dogwood, McNair, and Lake Anne. Why can't FCPS force failing schools to use the methods that have worked at other low income schools in our county? Why do principals get to use ANY teaching methods that they choose, regardless of how well they work, or don't work? Beats me.

Baffled Wrote:

Didn't SL have an open enrollment for any student
> to be pupil placed to SL or was that strictly for
> the IB program?

Pretty much any excuse works to pupil place, particularly schools that are under enrolled like the IB schools.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's be very clear, Fox Mill and Floris parents,
> the sources of your pain are, in order of guilt:
>
> 1) HHS PTA (we're holding the astronauts hostage
> and we aren't letting them go no matter what)
>
> 2) Janie (I hate Reston, and I'm not that crazy
> about Herndon, but God, do I slurp Langley)
> Strauss
>
> 3) Stuy (his unethical craveness) Gibson
>
> Someone want to prioritize differently, no
> arguments, but you got to have better wisecracks.

I believe several in my community would add:

4) SLPTSA (dressed as Seahawk cheerleaders), "GIMMIE A D!, GIMMIE AN I!..."

5) Kathy (my constituency at CHS gave me undocumented feedback that the school is sooo overcrowded but I can't get anyone there to leave) Smith.

Newbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen, I haven't been reading here very long, but I
> ask, "Why do you seem to have it in for South
> Lakes? What has South Lakes ever done to you?
> You say you live in Vienna, so I don't understand
> why you try so hard to sabotage this
> redistricting.

Because I believe in fairness for ALL students and for their families. I am not so parochial that I only care about students in Vienna. This RD was not set up with the right parameters. It was not conducted fairly for anyone. Students should not be forced to attend an IB school. It's a niche program, not a mainstream, college prep, program. It should be a magnet program and not forced om anyone. This RD has not been conducted fairly from the beginning. You ask why I don't support it. I can't imagine why anyone would support it, except for those people at South Lakes who (incorrectly) have been convinced that it will help their children to have more choices for IB classes if they can force outside students to attend South Lakes.

Deleted duplicate post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2008 10:55PM by Neen.

I haven't read all the posts here but I am getting the impression that the astronaut schools are back in play. Is that correct? Reston schools for Reston kids?

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elementarykids Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you have any idea how many elementary kids
> this
> > will add?
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > > In summary, McNair, east of Centreville Road
> > will
> > > add 1704 dwelling units projected to add 200
> hs
> > > kids to the 390 already going to Westfield
> from
> > > McNair. McNair, west of Centerville Road,
> will
> > > add 4741 dwelling units projected to add 336
> hs
> > > kids.
>
> Its .17 K-6 kids per garden apt. So 290 east and
> 806 west of Centerville Road; more than enough to
> fill McNair, Hutchison and Coopermine without
> touching Floris.
>
> So, no, Truthteller, Coopermine is not a waste of
> money. FCPS better hope the contractor works
> fast.

I disagree, Thomas. Floris will be sucked into this and Hutchison should be filled first

SO OVER IT! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More,
> Please don't put this on Herndon. The whole thing
> stinks. While you've made your opinion known loud
> and clear, most realize that the only way to
> backfill HHS ( to replace losss of Aldrin) is to
> redistrict Langley and that's never going to
> happen.
>
> This scenerio only set us up for another inept
> redistricting in a few years when HHS is
> underenrolled for the very same reasons SL is now.
> Don't think that I have to spell it out....do I?
>
> Please put the blame where it belongs.

Where does the blame belong>

Why shouldn't Reston schools be involved? Why shouldn't some of the students who go to Langley, but are much closer to Herndon, be sent to Herndon? If McNair is sent to South Lakes, why shouldn't they be replaced with Reston students from the astronaut schools?

Whatever happened to 'Reston schools for Reston kids'?

HerndonHSDad Wrote:

That does not sound too good for Herndon HS. I bet
> they will really bring the whole McNairs over to
> Herndon HS by then. Eventually, the Title I kids
> who are rejected by SLHS community now, will end
> up being shipped to Herndon HS as warm bodies. I
> am pissed. Who does SLHS think they are?

You've got it. SL doesn't want McNair, but are more than happy to see those students go to Herndon.

Tina Horne just moved to add a full complement of AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.

Ranney voted for it everyone else voting against it.

Gibson claims he is willing to have a discussion about IB v AP at SL but there's no community consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting against it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2008 11:26PM by Thomas More.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Brick in the Wall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> > > > But from the outside looking it, shouldn't
> > they
> > > be looking to J.E.B. Stuart
> > > > (which is comparable in size, actually more
> > > challenged in terms of demographics)
> > > > for some inspiration and ideas, since on a
> > > statistical,
> > > > demographically-adjusted basis Stuart is
> > > significantly outperforming SL?
> > >
> > > Exactly, so just what are they doing
> > differently
> > > at Stuart?
> >
> >
> > Take a look at this
> >
> >
> http://www.principals.org/s_nassp/sec.asp?CID=891&;
>
> > DID=53684
>
> Mel Riddle was a great principal and responsible
> for the positive growth in scores at Stuart.
> However, many of his programs were not popular
> with the democrats on our school board. I heard
> one of them say that she thought some of Riddle's
> requirements at Stuart "might be illegal". Among
> other things, she was referring to him forcing
> kids to stay after school to complete assignments
> that they had failed to do for homework and
> students who were falling behind. While Riddle
> was praised by many sources, including National
> Geographic, NASSP, President Bush, and the federal
> department of Education, he was not often praised
> by FCPS. They were highly suspect of his methods
> even though his methods were successful.
>
> For many years there were a number of us who
> pressed FCPS to duplicate Mel Riddle's methods in
> other failing schools, including South Lakes and
> Mt. Vernon. Stu Gibson refused. The
> administration and the school board did not want
> to discuss the success of Mel Riddle at Stuart.
> It almost seemed like they were embarrassed by the
> success of Stuart. Or it went against their
> ideology. I can't explain it.
>
> I do not understand why FCPS can't force
> principals to use methods that work, but they
> can't. Or they won't. Stuart has worked, South
> Lakes hasn't. Yet FCPS won't force any failing
> school to use the proven methods that Mel Riddle
> used. Many title 1 elementary schools out preform
> Dogwood, McNair, and Lake Anne. Why can't FCPS
> force failing schools to use the methods that have
> worked at other low income schools in our county?
> Why do principals get to use ANY teaching methods
> that they choose, regardless of how well they
> work, or don't work? Beats me.


Where is our do-gooder friend Ms Achievement to respond to your question?

You are Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Forum Reader,
>
> Do Woodson kids come from the town of Woodson?
> Reston is a place name, not a town, and a good
> portion of its students are at Herndon. Oakton
> kids are at Madison, Herndon, Oak Hill,
> Centreville kids at Westfield. Get it.
>
> Dear Thomas, things must be really slow at
> McCandlish & Lillard, P.C. today.
>
Typical post from a SL PTSA member. Haven't you figured out yet that this not winning you any support for your school? Obviously not. Are you an IB graduate?

Don't tell me, let me guess, your initials are CH. Or are they MA?

You aren't winning over the hearts and minds of anyone. You all have only yourselves, and Stu, to thank when no one shows up at SL's in the fall, no matter how many are redistricted to South Lakes.

Truthteller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > 290 east and 806 west of Centerville Road
> >
> > So, no, Truthteller, Coopermine is not a waste
> > of money.
>
> I disagree, Thomas. Floris will be sucked into
> this and Hutchison should be filled first

McNair has 941 now. Pipeline housing adds 1096, That's 2037 kids.

Hutchinson has 600 kids. What's capacity?

What is the basis for your disagreement?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2008 11:45PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tina Horne just moved to add a full complement of
> AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
>
> Ranney voted for it everyone else voting against
> it.
>
> Gibson claims he is willing to have a discussion
> about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> against it.

That's true. SL PTSA will not discuss AP. Stu knows where his support is.

Raney and Hone votes are telling. The final vote will be the same, 10 to 2.

Interesting that they won't allow more speakers on the new boundary options. But they SOOO want to hear the opinions of the public. yeah. right.

What did they just approve regarding the budget? Where will the cuts be?

Thomas,
Did you hear Tina Hone refer to Stu as playing the 'grand poo-bah role' at the National School board association? Too funny! Apparently Stu's lobbying efforts in the state Senate were not met with success. :(

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's true. SL PTSA will not discuss AP. Stu knows where his support is.

But that's his fallacy, isn't it. PTAs rarely have more than 10% participation, So its ridiculous to say that they represent the SL community or anyone else but themselves personally.

And if they are all parents of IB kids, there is no reason to believe the SLPTSA leaders will be willing to discuss reducing the disproportionate resources going to their kids to the detriment of the other kids at SL.

They approved Phil N-E's main motion, which pretty much mirrored the Center-Wilson amendment presented at Monday's work session, and then also added in the preschool IAs funding. Everyone said this is only the beginning and more cuts will happen in May once the Board gets the County $ amounts from the Board of Supervisors.

What they approved tonight includes full day K for 10 schools, as well as FLES for a small number (8?) schools. GT transportation is not cut.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > What did they just approve regarding the budget?
> Where will the cuts be?

Kaye Kory just said she voted against the budget. Do you know why? What was cut in the new budget? Why didn't Kaye support it?

Stu is now talking about people being nasty to PTA Presidents and other volunteers. OH, and he's not showing favoritism when he speaks with some PTA Presidents. The boundary process has gotten too nasty. He's chastising people who letting their children be nasty. All our schools are good so it doesn't matter which school students attend, they will get a good education at any of the 25 hich schools. Boundaries will be decided in two weeks. Blah, blah, blah..............

Kaye Kory and Jim Raney stated that the job of School Board members was to request (more like demand) enough resources "to meet the needs of the students" -- and therefore doing any cutting now was not pragmatic (e.g., Brad Center's position as well as Tessie Wilson's) but not advocating for students. Tina Hone said that it was along the lines of showing ones cards too early -- but Hone voted for the final budget.

Class size is one of the larger cuts.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kaye Kory just said she voted against the budget.
> Do you know why? What was cut in the new budget?
> Why didn't Kaye support it?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kaye Kory just said she voted against the budget.
> Do you know why?

She thought they weren't asking for enough money.

OrangeFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kaye Kory and Jim Raney stated that the job of
> School Board members was to request (more like
> demand) enough resources "to meet the needs of the
> students" -- and therefore doing any cutting now
> was not pragmatic (e.g., Brad Center's position as
> well as Tessie Wilson's) but not advocating for
> students. Tina Hone said that it was along the
> lines of showing ones cards too early -- but Hone
> voted for the final budget.
>
> Class size is one of the larger cuts.
>
Thanks so much for the information. How many voted for the budget? who voted against it?

Why don't they ever cut more administrators rather than teachers (increasing class size)? They could also save a bundle by making only one or two schools IB and converting the other IB schools back to AP. But no mention of that.

With our assessments decreasing, Connelly will be forced to raise that tax rates, or the schools will have to cut a great deal more in May. Without tax increases, Connelly will not have the funds to give the SB even what they got last year.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's true. SL PTSA will not discuss AP. Stu
> knows where his support is.
>
> But that's his fallacy, isn't it. PTAs rarely have
> more than 10% participation, So its ridiculous to
> say that they represent the SL community or anyone
> else but themselves personally.
>
> And if they are all parents of IB kids, there is
> no reason to believe the SLPTSA leaders will be
> willing to discuss reducing the disproportionate
> resources going to their kids to the detriment of
> the other kids at SL.

You're right. But Stu loves his SL PTSA gals, and the feeling is mutual. They only have each other in their little sinking ship.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>It might be a much better sales pitch for SL to
> talk about the rigor of the programs and of the
> administration (if it were indeed true), than it
> is to talk about the facility, the diversity and
> how much good this RD is doing for the
> underachievers. That would be much more appealing
> to the parents of high achievers than the message
> that is being sent. TJ has been a dump for years,
> and they have a long list of people trying to get
> in.<<<
>
> We've been trying to tell SL supporters that for
> months. They just won't listen. Parents care
> about academic rigor, not sky lights and
> 'diversity'.

Amusing. Whenever South Lakes touts the excellence of its programs (which it frequently does), it gets slammed by parents who say "it's too rigorous for our kids." or "If it's that rigorous, make it a TJ-like school." Can't have it both ways, babe.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> You didn't answer my question, if you're ready to
> take McNair at HHS, can SL have Aldrin?
>
> I'm really serious, here.
>
> If Tully was accurately quoted as saying SL only
> needs 1700 for full course selection; Aldrin has
> 291; SL has 1400-1500 (depending on which day you
> ask), we can leave Fox Mill and Floris alone,
> leave a buffer for the kids from the Town Center
> and Reston Heights apartments and end this
> nightmare.

SL has about 1,100 kids able to take all the standard courses -- the rest are MMR and high ESOL. (For Baffled, who is truly always baffled: MMR is mildly mentally retarded.) Everybody conveniently forgets about those students. Many can take some of the core gen ed courses, but rarely a full schedule of them. So the school needs about 700 kids to bring it above the 1,700 minimum threshhold for parity.

WhichWayIsIt? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Amusing. Whenever South Lakes touts the excellence
> of its programs (which it frequently does), it
> gets slammed by parents who say "it's too rigorous
> for our kids." or "If it's that rigorous, make it
> a TJ-like school." Can't have it both ways, babe.

You are right. My apologies. Parents don't want the academic program either. They don't care about the skylights, the diversity, the new library, and they don't want the IB program. You're right, there is nothing at South Lakes that parents care about.

Parents don't want an IB program. Too few students can complete it, it's not mainstream, and it's not a US program. It's a niche program that serves the top 5%, similar to TJ. So make it like TJ, a magnet, or get a program for the mainstream, college bound, students, AP, and save a boat load of money in the process.

Again, my apologies for suggesting that there is something at South Lakes that parents would find attractive. I was wrong.

1100 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HerndonHSDad Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > You didn't answer my question, if you're ready
> to
> > take McNair at HHS, can SL have Aldrin?
> >
> > I'm really serious, here.
> >
> > If Tully was accurately quoted as saying SL
> only
> > needs 1700 for full course selection; Aldrin
> has
> > 291; SL has 1400-1500 (depending on which day
> you
> > ask), we can leave Fox Mill and Floris alone,
> > leave a buffer for the kids from the Town
> Center
> > and Reston Heights apartments and end this
> > nightmare.
>
> SL has about 1,100 kids able to take all the
> standard courses -- the rest are MMR and high
> ESOL. (For Baffled, who is truly always baffled:
> MMR is mildly mentally retarded.) Everybody
> conveniently forgets about those students. Many
> can take some of the core gen ed courses, but
> rarely a full schedule of them. So the school
> needs about 700 kids to bring it above the 1,700
> minimum threshhold for parity.

Every high school has large numbers of special populations that aren't going for the IB diploma or 5 AP courses. Woodson has the deaf center. Madison has an ED center. Every school has ESOL students. And neither of those schools get the special funding for more teachers that South Lakes gets because it is a small school and even more funding because it is an IB school. That's why South Lakes has a much better teacher-pupil ratio than the other schools.

WhichWayIsIt? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amusing. Whenever South Lakes touts the excellence of its programs (which it
> frequently does), it gets slammed by parents who say "it's too rigorous
> for our kids." or "If it's that rigorous, make it a TJ-like school." Can't have > it both ways, babe.

Sure they can because you've conflated two different thoughts into one in order to discredit both. A famous rhetorical trick but an intellectually dishonest one nonetheless.

It is undisputed that IB is too rigorous for the vast majority of FCPS college bound students, never mind those who won't be going to college.

Since it is aimed at, and beneficial to, a small percentage of FCPS hs kids, it is perfectly suited to an academy approach, just like the culinary arts, auto repair or film and tv programs.

Nice try, but no cigar.

1100 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> > If Tully was accurately quoted as saying SL only needs 1700 for full course
> > selection; Aldrin has 291; SL has 1400-1500 (depending on which day
> > you ask), we can leave Fox Mill and Floris alone, leave a buffer for the kids > > from the Town Center and Reston Heights apartments and end this
> > nightmare.
>
> SL has about 1,100 kids able to take all the standard courses -- the rest are
> MMR and high ESOL. (For Baffled, who is truly always baffled: MMR is mildly
> mentally retarded.) Everybody conveniently forgets about those students. Many
> can take some of the core gen ed courses, but rarely a full schedule of them. So > the school needs about 700 kids to bring it above the 1,700 minimum threshhold
> for parity.

That's not what Tully is quoted as saying.

If you add 700 kids to the 1500 kids that are already there, you've got 2200 kids. So you're 100 over capacity already, without the 200-300 kids from the new apartments at RTC and Reston Heights.

She, therefore, must have meant to include the MMR and high ESOL kids in the 1700 number.

She's always free to correct that misimpression.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2008 01:03AM by Thomas More.

A few things
1. Look at all of the exlusive international schools around the world who send many students to prestigious colleges in the US, they use IB. So I don't see why the huge opposition to IB. However the middle school bounderies need to be adjusted to as the IB has a middle years component. The IB diploma would be accepted at universities around the world, where as just a regular us diploma is generally not( depending on the country, I mean a full degree program, not just a year or semester). However if it is acutal fact that most of these AP students could not complete the IB diploma then things need to be looked at and changed.

2 . Langley also needs to be looked at if the school board is being totally honest.

3. I think that the elementary schools should not feed into different high schools. It is okay for middle schools to do so, but the kids from each elementary school need to be kept together and in the same classes, so they don't become attached to friends who may be heading to other high schools ( for example if students from Floris and Fox Mill were to attend the same middle school, but attened different high schools, Floris students need to be in classes with only Floris students, and the same would go for Fox Mill). This would not be an ideal situation, but would make the situaition of the high school issues easier to deal with.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I haven't read all the posts here but I am getting
> the impression that the astronaut schools are back
> in play. Is that correct? Reston schools for
> Reston kids?

They should be - its a clean solution involving 2 schools of similar performance

The speakers at the new public hearings should present a structured argument for why its a far better solution than ripping their communities up

The current plans are madness without any public support - both in Floris / FoxMill and especially Madison North which has been treated appallingly

Do the astronauts hold the key? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I haven't read all the posts here but I am
> getting
> > the impression that the astronaut schools are
> back
> > in play. Is that correct? Reston schools for
> > Reston kids?
>
> They should be - its a clean solution involving 2
> schools of similar performance
>
> The speakers at the new public hearings should
> present a structured argument for why its a far
> better solution than ripping their communities up
>
> The current plans are madness without any public
> support - both in Floris / FoxMill and especially
> Madison North which has been treated appallingly


Yes they should be..as per my name, I have been baffled by the whole redistricting crap because nothing made sense. I do not need to repeat, there are over 210 pages of this mess on this thread. Also as mentioned in an earlier post, I was a resident in Reston before and could not even understand why Reston wasn't united as one. Somebody ought to start a campaign to at least get this rolling. It is really ridiculous.

Very few parents would argue that colleges discriminate against students because they happened to attend an IB school. The college admissions mantra is that they look for signs that students took the most rigorous courses available. IB is an excellent college prep program. However, one main difference between IB and AP is the extent to which they allow students to go beyond college prep, and into college level material, in math and physics.

IB's diploma program also is getting more emphasis than its certificate program from the IB Organization, as part of its overall goal of creating well-rounded students. Academically, the IB diploma program has rigid distribution requirements, worse than the FCPS Advanced Diploma requirements. Publications by IB North America suggest that IBO is not pleased with the way that some US high schools have implemented the IB program, in part because US high schools are not emphasizing the diploma program as much as IBO would like.

Recent IBO fee changes also tend to make the IB program much more expensive than the AP program for students who will take only one or two AP or IB classes per year. Given the focus within FCPS on encouraging as many students as possible to take one AP or one IB course, this seems to put FCPS equity and access goals at odds with the IBO pricing structure.

Finally, the new FCPS staff booklet about IB is, unfortunately, misleading. For example, Page 2 declines to specify which South Lakes courses are taught at the SL level only, the IB level only, or combined into one period. We have read in this thread about how South Lakes needs more students so that there are more students who take IB courses (among others), SL and HL courses don't get combined (for example) or cancelled as often. Why can't staff admit this?

Staff's statement on page 4 that the "courses in science and math are often equivalent to AP and most go beyond" is a sign that staff has hunkered down. Appendix C to this staff report purports to compare HL Math to precalc, the two AP Calculus courses (AB and BC), and post-AP classes. Staff omits to mention the number of hours required for each core math topic by the IBO syllabus, which happens to be exactly 48 hours for calculus. Staff equates this 48-hour unit to a one-year Calc BC course, where kids would normally spend 120+ hours learning calculus. Then Staff failed to accurately describe how the HL Math syllabus allows staff to choose one from four different optional topics, and listed only the two of four that sounded more like post-AP math subjects taught in the FCPS high schools. (One of those optional topics not listed was statistics.) And, staff failed to mention that an optional topic gets 40 hours.

Since FCPS teachers have a little more than the required 240 hours to teach HL Math over two years, perhaps they might cover 60 or 70 rather than 48 hours of calculus. Perhaps not, though, given FCPS student scores on the HL Math exam. Or perhaps FCPS intends to turn HL Math into a three-credit course, which is reportedly done at Robinson SS. One credit in junior year. Two in senior year. What is wrong with FCPS if a 240 hour course (according to the IBO syllabus) needs over 400 hours in FCPS?

FCPS staff also claim IB HL Math students do well on the AP Calc BC test. Why don't they disclose the total number of students at each IB school who took the IB HL Math exam last year, the number of students at each IB school who also took AP Calculus AB, the number who also took AP Calculus BC, and the range of scores on the AP Calculus AB and AP Calculus BC tests? Until they do that, there's no reason to believe what they say.


Mr E Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few things
> 1. Look at all of the exlusive international
> schools around the world who send many students to
> prestigious colleges in the US, they use IB. So I
> don't see why the huge opposition to IB.

Mr E Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few things
> 1. Look at all of the exlusive international
> schools around the world who send many students to
> prestigious colleges in the US, they use IB. So I
> don't see why the huge opposition to IB. However
> the middle school bounderies need to be adjusted
> to as the IB has a middle years component. The IB
> diploma would be accepted at universities around
> the world, where as just a regular us diploma is
> generally not( depending on the country, I mean a
> full degree program, not just a year or semester).
> However if it is acutal fact that most of these AP
> students could not complete the IB diploma then
> things need to be looked at and changed.

Hi Mr. E

Look at my last 3-4 posts, starting on page 211 or so. Then let me know what you think.

Good points Mr. E, but take a slight different look at AP vs. IB.

You point out exactly what IB is meant for: a degree program for people who are interested in an education that travels well between different countries. It was designed for children of diplomats...most of the IB schools are outside the US. It is a wonderful program for (as you put it) "exclusive international schools" who send many kids to "prestigious colleges".

The FCPS schools are not like those schools--they are good, but sending graduates to pretigious international colleges is just not one of the top goals of a US high school. They are public schools that serve a broad cross section of the community. Almost no kids from FCPS schools (or any US schools) attend international universities for undergraduate education.

The majority of US high schoolers are interested in programs that will prepare them for US colleges. With the exception of people here who are closely involved with the IB program, the testimony of people who are familiar with these two programs, including students who have participated directly in these program, has been that AP better prepares students for US colleges, particularly for the 90% of students who don't obtain the IB diploma even in an IB scbool.

Even the names of the programs are telling. AP is about advanced placement, IB is about international baccalaureate. They're just different. Most US schools and most FCPS schools prefer AP.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tina Horne just moved to add a full complement of
> AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
>
> Ranney voted for it everyone else voting against
> it.
>
> Gibson claims he is willing to have a discussion
> about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> against it.


This really drives me insane. There was a discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD people were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is such a piece of ...

How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school and shut the doors on them by not offering any AP classes. Will this unjustice survive in court of law. I am sure they will say you are always allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might as well forget his next election good bye. He will not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next time.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tina Horne just moved to add a full complement
> of
> > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
> >
> > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> against
> > it.
> >
> > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> discussion
> > about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> > consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> > against it.
>
>
> This really drives me insane. There was a
> discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD people
> were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it
> appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is such
> a piece of ...
>
> How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school and
> shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> classes. Will this unjustice survive in court of
> law. I am sure they will say you are always
> allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might as
> well forget his next election good bye. He will
> not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next
> time.


sorry injustice not unjustice

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tina Horne just moved to add a full complement
> of
> > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
> >
> > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> against
> > it.
> >
> > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> discussion
> > about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> > consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> > against it.
>
>
> This really drives me insane. There was a
> discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD people
> were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it
> appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is such
> a piece of ...
>
> How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school and
> shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> classes. Will this unjustice survive in court of
> law. I am sure they will say you are always
> allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might as
> well forget his next election good bye. He will
> not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next
> time.


so basically, anyone focussed on a science, engineering or technology career will probably have to pupil place and sort out their own transport

makes no sense to me what so ever

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Tina Horne just moved to add a full
> complement
> > of
> > > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> > > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
>
> > >
> > > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> > against
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> > discussion
> > > about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> > > consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> > > against it.
> >
> >
> > This really drives me insane. There was a
> > discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD
> people
> > were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it
> > appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is
> such
> > a piece of ...
> >
> > How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school
> and
> > shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> > classes. Will this unjustice survive in court
> of
> > law. I am sure they will say you are always
> > allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might
> as
> > well forget his next election good bye. He will
> > not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next
> > time.
>
>
> sorry injustice not unjustice


A recall petition of Stu is underway for an unrelated issue. From what I understand it will take several weeks after the RD is done (if it goes through, Gawd forbid).

Truthteller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > elementarykids Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Do you have any idea how many elementary kids
> > this
> > > will add?
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > >
> > > Thomas More Wrote:
> > >
> > > > In summary, McNair, east of Centreville Road
>
> > > will
> > > > add 1704 dwelling units projected to add
> 200
> > hs
> > > > kids to the 390 already going to Westfield
> > from
> > > > McNair. McNair, west of Centerville Road,
> > will
> > > > add 4741 dwelling units projected to add
> 336
> > hs
> > > > kids.
> >
> > Its .17 K-6 kids per garden apt. So 290 east
> and
> > 806 west of Centerville Road; more than enough
> to
> > fill McNair, Hutchison and Coopermine without
> > touching Floris.
> >
> > So, no, Truthteller, Coopermine is not a waste
> of
> > money. FCPS better hope the contractor works
> > fast.
>
> I disagree, Thomas. Floris will be sucked into
> this and Hutchison should be filled first



Floris will be sucked in to mask the problems at McNair. South Lakes redux for the tiny tots.

Baffled Wrote:
>
>
> A recall petition of Stu is underway for an
> unrelated issue. From what I understand it will
> take several weeks after the RD is done

Only if you can dig into your pockets and fine $ for Christine.

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good points Mr. E, but take a slight different
> look at AP vs. IB.
>
> You point out exactly what IB is meant for: a
> degree program for people who are interested in an
> education that travels well between different
> countries. It was designed for children of
> diplomats...most of the IB schools are outside the
> US. It is a wonderful program for (as you put it)
> "exclusive international schools" who send many
> kids to "prestigious colleges".
>
> The FCPS schools are not like those schools--they
> are good, but sending graduates to pretigious
> international colleges is just not one of the top
> goals of a US high school. They are public
> schools that serve a broad cross section of the
> community. Almost no kids from FCPS schools (or
> any US schools) attend international universities
> for undergraduate education.
>
> The majority of US high schoolers are interested
> in programs that will prepare them for US
> colleges. With the exception of people here who
> are closely involved with the IB program, the
> testimony of people who are familiar with these
> two programs, including students who have
> participated directly in these program, has been
> that AP better prepares students for US colleges,
> particularly for the 90% of students who don't
> obtain the IB diploma even in an IB scbool.
>
> Even the names of the programs are telling. AP is
> about advanced placement, IB is about
> international baccalaureate. They're just
> different. Most US schools and most FCPS schools
> prefer AP.

Very well said. Forcing kids into a IB school from AP has never occured anywhere in US.

How about a voucher system. I heard 500 families put in a petition to ask for South Lakes in Fox Mill. Can't this be done? Our elected officials boasting that we have over 3 million $ to fight lawsuits (as if it is their money). There is no consensus for this. Shoving something on someone has never worked and will never work.

Pathetic bunch of lunatics if you ask me. Apart from Hone and Raney most of them are losers. May be Hone and Raney haven't been there enough to get corrupted.

> Its .17 K-6 kids per garden apt. So 290 east and
> 806 west of Centerville Road; more than enough
> to fill McNair, Hutchison and Coopermine without
> touching Floris.
>
> > So, no, Truthteller, Coopermine is not a waste
> > of money. FCPS better hope the contractor works fast.

With the increased capacity at Hutchison ES, we can expect those three diamond shaped zones north of the Toll Road, which currently belong to McNair, to return to Hutchison ES. Of course, they're already part of the Herndon HS pyramid.

After watching the work session, one conclusion is made. Most of the SB members are no better than criminals. They are corrupted. They are wasting tax payers money. They should be prosecuted and be sent to jail. Period.
I would also fault them for causing all the school shootings. Reason is very simple, kids are bullied by school boards everywhere. They lost trust to the system and felt being betrayed.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
> I heard 500 families
> put in a petition to ask for South Lakes in Fox
> Mill. Can't this be done?

Not exactly - one person from fox mill put in a petition of 400 SLHS kids, alums, hangers-on etc and 99 Herndon folks who wanted the protection of option 5 to move Fox Mill into SLHS

Just look through the petition, compare it to white-pages and listen to the loud sucking sound from SLHS

SB have $3M of your money to fight you - rather than educating your kids

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oakton Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Good points Mr. E, but take a slight different
> > look at AP vs. IB.
> >
> > You point out exactly what IB is meant for: a
> > degree program for people who are interested in
> an
> > education that travels well between different
> > countries. It was designed for children of
> > diplomats...most of the IB schools are outside
> the
> > US. It is a wonderful program for (as you put
> it)
> > "exclusive international schools" who send many
> > kids to "prestigious colleges".
> >
> > The FCPS schools are not like those
> schools--they
> > are good, but sending graduates to pretigious
> > international colleges is just not one of the
> top
> > goals of a US high school. They are public
> > schools that serve a broad cross section of the
> > community. Almost no kids from FCPS schools
> (or
> > any US schools) attend international
> universities
> > for undergraduate education.
> >
> > The majority of US high schoolers are
> interested
> > in programs that will prepare them for US
> > colleges. With the exception of people here
> who
> > are closely involved with the IB program, the
> > testimony of people who are familiar with these
> > two programs, including students who have
> > participated directly in these program, has
> been
> > that AP better prepares students for US
> colleges,
> > particularly for the 90% of students who don't
> > obtain the IB diploma even in an IB scbool.
> >
> > Even the names of the programs are telling. AP
> is
> > about advanced placement, IB is about
> > international baccalaureate. They're just
> > different. Most US schools and most FCPS
> schools
> > prefer AP.
>
> Very well said. Forcing kids into a IB school
> from AP has never occured anywhere in US.
>
> How about a voucher system. I heard 500 families
> put in a petition to ask for South Lakes in Fox
> Mill. Can't this be done? Our elected officials
> boasting that we have over 3 million $ to fight
> lawsuits (as if it is their money). There is no
> consensus for this. Shoving something on someone
> has never worked and will never work.
>
> Pathetic bunch of lunatics if you ask me. Apart
> from Hone and Raney most of them are losers. May
> be Hone and Raney haven't been there enough to get
> corrupted.


What I have heard about the 500 signatures from Ms. Castro who is from Fox Mill was that the signatures were mostly from the Reston area those who are SL supporters. I do not know if the 500 signatures were truly from Reston or from Fox Mill. Mixed stories do not get the best of me just like how the boundary study was carried out.

Baffled Wrote:

>
> What I have heard about the 500 signatures from
> Ms. Castro who is from Fox Mill was that the
> signatures were mostly from the Reston area those
> who are SL supporters. I do not know if the 500
> signatures were truly from Reston or from Fox
> Mill. Mixed stories do not get the best of me
> just like how the boundary study was carried out.

you can do a very quick and easy cross check against any one of a range of datasets - verizons white pages is a good first step. The list is in the minutes of the first board hearing - get the speaker number from the list.

Reston-reston-reston-herndon-reston-reston etc...

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tina Horne just moved to add a full complement
> of
> > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
> >
> > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> against
> > it.
> >
> > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> discussion
> > about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> > consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> > against it.
>
>
> This really drives me insane. There was a
> discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD people
> were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it
> appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is such
> a piece of ...
>
> How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school and
> shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> classes. Will this unjustice survive in court of
> law. I am sure they will say you are always
> allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might as
> well forget his next election good bye. He will
> not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next
> time.

The way this should happen would be that they would study a change at SL to AP first, hopefully implement a change, and then decide whether kids should be moved. At this time the kids havent been moved, we can all say we know what the vote will be, but, it hasn't actually occurred yet. What if no one ends up moving and SL is stuck with an unwanted change to AP (assuming the majority doesn't want it - obviously there are many that do)?

On a more disturbing note, the Hone/Raney proposal to add AP now suggests they know what the final RD vote will be.

reston, reston, herndon, reston... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
>
> >
> > What I have heard about the 500 signatures from
> > Ms. Castro who is from Fox Mill was that the
> > signatures were mostly from the Reston area
> those
> > who are SL supporters. I do not know if the
> 500
> > signatures were truly from Reston or from Fox
> > Mill. Mixed stories do not get the best of me
> > just like how the boundary study was carried
> out.
>
> you can do a very quick and easy cross check
> against any one of a range of datasets - verizons
> white pages is a good first step. The list is in
> the minutes of the first board hearing - get the
> speaker number from the list.
>
> Reston-reston-reston-herndon-reston-reston etc...


The fine ladies of the SLPTSA and their offspring are the starting blocks of that Unfortune 500 List. That should tell everyone something.

VanD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reston, reston, herndon, reston... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Baffled Wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What I have heard about the 500 signatures
> from
> > > Ms. Castro who is from Fox Mill was that the
> > > signatures were mostly from the Reston area
> > those
> > > who are SL supporters. I do not know if the
> > 500
> > > signatures were truly from Reston or from Fox
> > > Mill. Mixed stories do not get the best of
> me
> > > just like how the boundary study was carried
> > out.
> >
> > you can do a very quick and easy cross check
> > against any one of a range of datasets -
> verizons
> > white pages is a good first step. The list is
> in
> > the minutes of the first board hearing - get
> the
> > speaker number from the list.
> >
> > Reston-reston-reston-herndon-reston-reston
> etc...
>
>
> The fine ladies of the SLPTSA and their offspring
> are the starting blocks of that Unfortune 500
> List. That should tell everyone something.


Point well taken. May be I was too naive to think there is any decency and truth left in this whole process.

Like someone said before, they have the money they were supposed to use for education in these trying times. But no egos have to be served who cares about education.

Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Manoj Bal Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thomas More Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Tina Horne just moved to add a full
> complement
> > of
> > > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> > > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against it.
>
> > >
> > > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> > against
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> > discussion
> > > about IB v AP at SL but there's no community
> > > consensus to do this, he claims. He's voting
> > > against it.
> >
> >
> > This really drives me insane. There was a
> > discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD
> people
> > were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it
> > appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is
> such
> > a piece of ...
> >
> > How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school
> and
> > shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> > classes. Will this unjustice survive in court
> of
> > law. I am sure they will say you are always
> > allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might
> as
> > well forget his next election good bye. He will
> > not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next
> > time.
>
> The way this should happen would be that they
> would study a change at SL to AP first, hopefully
> implement a change, and then decide whether kids
> should be moved. At this time the kids havent
> been moved, we can all say we know what the vote
> will be, but, it hasn't actually occurred yet.
> What if no one ends up moving and SL is stuck with
> an unwanted change to AP (assuming the majority
> doesn't want it - obviously there are many that
> do)?
>
> On a more disturbing note, the Hone/Raney proposal
> to add AP now suggests they know what the final RD
> vote will be.

Don't understand, Mike. This represents movement on Stu's part--he's now willing to discuss changing to AP at SL. I see this as a positive. He just doesn't want to make a wholesale change without talking to SL and redistricted folks to achieve a consensus. But I think that's prudent.There are many at SL who would consider or already prefer AP.

AP vs. IB will not affect ninth graders for at least a year anyway, when they might want to take an AP course in tenth grade.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2008 10:11AM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Manoj Bal Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Thomas More Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Tina Horne just moved to add a full
> > complement
> > > of
> > > > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees by
> > > > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against
> it.
> >
> > > >
> > > > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> > > against
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> > > discussion
> > > > about IB v AP at SL but there's no
> community
> > > > consensus to do this, he claims. He's
> voting
> > > > against it.
> > >
> > >
> > > This really drives me insane. There was a
> > > discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD
> > people
> > > were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will
> it
> > > appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is
> > such
> > > a piece of ...
> > >
> > > How is this fair? Force kids into a IB
> school
> > and
> > > shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> > > classes. Will this unjustice survive in
> court
> > of
> > > law. I am sure they will say you are always
> > > allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu
> might
> > as
> > > well forget his next election good bye. He
> will
> > > not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill
> next
> > > time.
> >
> > The way this should happen would be that they
> > would study a change at SL to AP first,
> hopefully
> > implement a change, and then decide whether
> kids
> > should be moved. At this time the kids havent
> > been moved, we can all say we know what the
> vote
> > will be, but, it hasn't actually occurred yet.
> > What if no one ends up moving and SL is stuck
> with
> > an unwanted change to AP (assuming the majority
> > doesn't want it - obviously there are many that
> > do)?
> >
> > On a more disturbing note, the Hone/Raney
> proposal
> > to add AP now suggests they know what the final
> RD
> > vote will be.
>
> Don't understand, Mike. This represents movement
> on Stu's part--he's now willing to discuss
> changing to AP at SL. I see this as a positive.
> He just doesn't want to make a wholesale change
> without talking to SL and redistricted folks to
> achieve a consensus. But I think that's
> prudent.There are many at SL who would consider or
> already prefer AP.
>
> AP vs. IB will not affect ninth graders for at
> least a year anyway, when they might want to take
> an AP course in tenth grade.


SLPP,

Nothing against you personally, but this is like dangling a carrot for kids who will be coming in (if they come in). Do you really think without a comprehensive commitment to AP program any of these kids coming from AP school will put a foot in your beautiful facility. Please understand, we feel IB is a elite program which puts a lot of burden on above average kids. I will say this again, you have put yourself in a corner by implementing IB program. I just don't know how you get out of this mess.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mike Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Manoj Bal Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Thomas More Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Tina Horne just moved to add a full
> > > complement
> > > > of
> > > > > AP classes to SL by reducing legal fees
> by
> > > > > $500,000. Kory seconded but voted against
> > it.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ranney voted for it everyone else voting
> > > > against
> > > > > it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gibson claims he is willing to have a
> > > > discussion
> > > > > about IB v AP at SL but there's no
> > community
> > > > > consensus to do this, he claims. He's
> > voting
> > > > > against it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This really drives me insane. There was a
> > > > discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD
> > > people
> > > > were asking us if we introduce AP in SL
> will
> > it
> > > > appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu
> is
> > > such
> > > > a piece of ...
> > > >
> > > > How is this fair? Force kids into a IB
> > school
> > > and
> > > > shut the doors on them by not offering any
> AP
> > > > classes. Will this unjustice survive in
> > court
> > > of
> > > > law. I am sure they will say you are
> always
> > > > allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu
> > might
> > > as
> > > > well forget his next election good bye. He
> > will
> > > > not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill
> > next
> > > > time.
> > >
> > > The way this should happen would be that they
> > > would study a change at SL to AP first,
> > hopefully
> > > implement a change, and then decide whether
> > kids
> > > should be moved. At this time the kids
> havent
> > > been moved, we can all say we know what the
> > vote
> > > will be, but, it hasn't actually occurred
> yet.
> > > What if no one ends up moving and SL is stuck
> > with
> > > an unwanted change to AP (assuming the
> majority
> > > doesn't want it - obviously there are many
> that
> > > do)?
> > >
> > > On a more disturbing note, the Hone/Raney
> > proposal
> > > to add AP now suggests they know what the
> final
> > RD
> > > vote will be.
> >
> > Don't understand, Mike. This represents
> movement
> > on Stu's part--he's now willing to discuss
> > changing to AP at SL. I see this as a positive.
>
> > He just doesn't want to make a wholesale change
> > without talking to SL and redistricted folks to
> > achieve a consensus. But I think that's
> > prudent.There are many at SL who would consider
> or
> > already prefer AP.
> >
> > AP vs. IB will not affect ninth graders for at
> > least a year anyway, when they might want to
> take
> > an AP course in tenth grade.
>
>
> SLPP,
>
> Nothing against you personally, but this is like
> dangling a carrot for kids who will be coming in
> (if they come in). Do you really think without a
> comprehensive commitment to AP program any of
> these kids coming from AP school will put a foot
> in your beautiful facility. Please understand, we
> feel IB is a elite program which puts a lot of
> burden on above average kids. I will say this
> again, you have put yourself in a corner by
> implementing IB program. I just don't know how
> you get out of this mess.


Same here, nothing against SLPP personally, but I have a big problem with this RD--being forced to an IB high school as if the choice of education was taken away for my kid. If a majority of the SL parents had preferred the AP (actually had it) at the time the IB was thrusted upon the school, why didn't the SL PTA committee fight back?

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I will say this
> again, you have put yourself in a corner by
> implementing IB program. I just don't know how
> you get out of this mess.


you make SLHS an IB magnet

IB Diploma has its advantages but IB overall is not well suited to the engineering and science tracks at US universities - and at the end of the day engineering and science are the drivers of US competitiveness

This is the fundamental flaw in the PCPS approach of segmenting the population by location into AP or IB. Better to be an AP county with IB magnets, or an IB county with AP magnets.

Just saying that, despite having science, tech and AP aspirations, because Alice in Westfield can't get on cheerleading squad - we redrew your bus route so you are now an IB family, is not acceptable

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a majority of the SL parents had preferred the AP (actually had it)
> at the time the IB was thrusted upon the school,
> why didn't the SL PTA committee fight back?

There wasn't an SL PTSA committee on the choice of IB in 1999. It was a decision imposed on SL by the Area Superintendent with little notice to the community.

Given his multiple deceptions to date, I don't trust Stuy not to have the "discussion" consist solely of a coffee with his fans on the SLPTSA who are almost totally parents of IB students and end the review there.

To be valid, this conversation has got to be with the parents of the Elementary & Middle school parents, since the hs parents will, per force, have already made their choices with their kids by then and they would not be around when any change would be implemented.

I am not hopeful that this is really going to happen but if someone doesn't hold his craveness to task on each of these "promises", he thinks he's getting away with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2008 12:00PM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


I think there will be considerable pressure to have a dialog with the larger community, and I don't think a "coffee" will do it.

After follow this RD process so far, it's my understanding that the RD will go through. So Fox Mill/Floris kids will join SL this fall but majority of them will pupil place out to an AP school.

So what's the point for this RD? The only difference I can see is that whoever pupil placed out of SL will have to provide transportation themselves. Is this going to reduce the transportation cost for FCPS?

VeryConfuse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After follow this RD process so far, it's my
> understanding that the RD will go through. So Fox
> Mill/Floris kids will join SL this fall but
> majority of them will pupil place out to an AP
> school.
>
> So what's the point for this RD? The only
> difference I can see is that whoever pupil placed
> out of SL will have to provide transportation
> themselves. Is this going to reduce the
> transportation cost for FCPS?


With the boundary phase in process, if the RD goes through, redistricted kids who are pupil-placed out can ride with their older high school neighbors (under the grandfather clause). It would be absolutely ridiculous if the redistricted kids who are granted pupil placment cannot ride the bus with the grandfathered older students to their "old" schools.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If a majority of the SL parents had preferred
> the AP (actually had it)
> > at the time the IB was thrusted upon the
> school,
> > why didn't the SL PTA committee fight back?
>
> There wasn't an SL PTSA committee on the choice of
> IB in 1999. It was a decision imposed on SL by the
> Area Superintendent with little notice to the
> community.
>
> Given his multiple deceptions to date, I don't
> trust Stuy not to have the "discussion" consist
> solely of a coffee with his fans on the SLPTSA who
> are almost totally parents of IB students and end
> the review there.
>
> To be valid, this conversation has got to be with
> the parents of the Elementary & Middle school
> parents, since the hs parents will, per force,
> have already made their choices with their kids by
> then and they would not be around when any change
> would have been implemented.
>
> I am not hopeful that this is really going to
> happen but if someone doesn't hold his craveness
> to task on each of these "promises", he thinks
> he's getting away with it.



And as more than one PTA member has stated, "I didn't have a choice and neither should you." So there you go. Good Luck you future South Lakes parents.

VeryConfuse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After follow this RD process so far, it's my
> understanding that the RD will go through. So Fox
> Mill/Floris kids will join SL this fall but
> majority of them will pupil place out to an AP
> school.
>
> So what's the point for this RD? The only
> difference I can see is that whoever pupil placed
> out of SL will have to provide transportation
> themselves. Is this going to reduce the
> transportation cost for FCPS?

And the Madison North community will have been forcibly annexed by Reston at all three levels to no observable benefit other than:

- masking the disastrous performance at Hughes MS (which is what the annexation is about at the end of the day)
- deliberately overcrowding sunrise valley

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there will be considerable pressure to
> have a dialog with the larger community, and I
> don't think a "coffee" will do it.

How about a friendly wager on that proposition?

Give me your odds?

I'd say 5-1 - no dialogue with elementary and middle school parents with advocates for both sides fairly represented followed by a binding vote.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2008 11:56AM by Thomas More.

Does the Lawsuit people mentioned here have any hope? If the decision has been made on Feb. 28, how is it going to help the case? Frozen the process?


not so confusing... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VeryConfuse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > After follow this RD process so far, it's my
> > understanding that the RD will go through. So
> Fox
> > Mill/Floris kids will join SL this fall but
> > majority of them will pupil place out to an AP
> > school.
> >
> > So what's the point for this RD? The only
> > difference I can see is that whoever pupil
> placed
> > out of SL will have to provide transportation
> > themselves. Is this going to reduce the
> > transportation cost for FCPS?
>
> And the Madison North community will have been
> forcibly annexed by Reston at all three levels to
> no observable benefit other than:
>
> - masking the disastrous performance at Hughes MS
> (which is what the annexation is about at the end
> of the day)
> - deliberately overcrowding sunrise valley

not so confusing... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And the Madison North community will have been
> forcibly annexed by Reston at all three levels to
> no observable benefit other than:
>
> - masking the disastrous performance at Hughes MS
> (which is what the annexation is about at the end
> of the day)
> - deliberately overcrowding sunrise valley

Moving Madison Island is the most logical choice for that geographic area. Since, as the MI parents argue, their numbers are so small as to not have any positive effect, how are they possibly going to mask the 'disastrous' performance at Hughes. Are the few MI children all brilliant? MI folks can't have it both ways. They can't be too small to make a diff, yet so important as to change the course of a school. MI should have always been in the SL pyramid. One of the MI streets is in the Reston Master Plan. MI children do play in Reston - my child's Reston Scout troop had two MI children, for example.

Also, why does MI say that they are separated from Vienna only by industrial land, while ignoring that a very large SL neighborhood is between them and the rest of the Madison attendance area. Why do they ignore 165 homes with Vienna addresses that are districted to SL? Why do they ignore that there are several other SL neighborhoods off of Lawyers Road, with Vienna addresses, attending SL? Explain that one.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think there will be considerable pressure to
> > have a dialog with the larger community, and I
> > don't think a "coffee" will do it.
>
> How about a friendly wager on that proposition?
>
> Give me your odds?
>
> I'd say 5-1 - no dialogue with elementary and
> middle school parents with advocates for both
> sides fairly represented followed by a binding
> vote.


This ain't going to happen. Stu Gibson has only one agenda and that is South Lakes, South Lakes, South Lakes. South Lakes PTA and Stu Gibson are inseperable.

Thomas More Wrote:
> .. It is undisputed that IB is too rigorous for the
> vast majority of FCPS college bound students,
> never mind those who won't be going to college.
>
> Since it is aimed at, and beneficial to, a small
> percentage of FCPS hs kids, it is perfectly suited
> to an academy approach, just like the culinary
> arts, auto repair or film and tv programs. ...

I agree if you add just a couple words: "It is undisputed that THE FULL BI DIPLOMA PROGRAMME is too rigorous for the vast majority of FCPS college bound students, never mind those who won't be going to college."

----------

Weeks ago another poster mentioned Lamar Academy in McAllen TX. It is a very small programme, only about 25 students per class. From their website: "Our school and district are proud that all of our 99 IB students have earned diplomas over the past four years." ... "McAllen ISD is a Title One area, an education system for children at risk of school failure, who live in low-income communities; 95% of our students are Hispanic, many are migrant students, and we have a large number of immigrants."

What is most interesting, and pertinent to your suggestion, Thomas, "The school district decided to put the programme at Lamar Academy rather than at one of the three comprehensive high schools. The programme was set up so that the students who attempted the IB Diploma Programme were still considered students at their home campus, where they participated in electives, fine arts, and athletics, while they took all of their academic (IB) classes at Lamar Academy.

----------
For whatever reason, FCPS loves Academies but does want another magnet high school.

IB Academies could be put in the three high schools projected to have the most space (Falls Church, South Lakes, and Mt Vernon) with 500 IB Academy students (perhaps 300 juniors and 200 seniors) in each.

Or reduce IB in FCPS to one Academy. Marshall (if closed as a "regular" high school) seems the place to do it because it already has an Academy program, has a successful IB programme, is pending renovation anyway, has too small a site to grow into a 2,000 seat "regular" high school, and is easy to access from most parts of the County via Rt 7, I-66 or the beltway. Wherever it is, FCPS would save money because only one full time IB coordinator and annual site fee would be needed. IB students would benefit because IB classes would no longer be combined or very small and more IB languages could be offered.

Currently in FCPS a LOT more juniors sign up than complete the full IB Diploma two years later. Maybe build a capacity of 1500, 800 Juniors and 700 Seniors?

Either way, one site or three, here is a POSSIBLE model:
- All IB Academy students are IB Diploma Candidates but are still considered to be students at their home campus, where they participate one or perhaps two additional electives and athletics and other activities.
- All IB Academy students will attend a five-class IB-block per day. Both morning and afternoon blocks might be offered. IB students will have thus ten IB class periods over two years:
FIRST YEAR:
HL English I
HL Foreign Language I
Three of the following, with the fourth taken in the senior year. ONE of the four must be taken High Level:
- IB SL Math
- IB SL Science
- IB SL History
- IB SL Art
SECOND YEAR:
HL English II
HL Foreign Language II
HL math, science, social studies, OR art II
A third IB SL course (math, science, social studies, OR art)
IB Theory of Knowledge

For both years, all IB Academy students take HL English and a foreign language. They will also take IB math, social studies, art, and science, with one of these four being taken for two years at High Level.

Students who want more art, math, science, and/or social studies will take them at their base high school. They could, for example, take High Level IB science at the IB Academy plus AP Calculus and AP Government at their base school. Of course, they may also choose to participate in their base school chorus or whatever instead.

Mr E Wrote:
> ...I think that the elementary schools should not
> feed into different high schools. It is okay for
> middle schools to do so, but the kids from each
> elementary school need to be kept together and in
> the same classes, so they don't become attached to
> friends who may be heading to other high schools ...

I don't understand. Do you think children who attend kindergarten together have to go to high school together yet middle school does not count? Students make LOTS of new friends in middle school. It makes a LOT more sine to split an elementary school into two (not four or five!) middle schools but match up middle and high school boundaries.

"Kids from each elementary school need to be kept together and in the same classes, so they don't become attached to friends who may be heading to other high schools." Hmmm. You must be using satire (perish forbid they should meet a new friend in band or something!) but if you are not, then perhaps what you seek is a k-8 grade school, and get rid of middle schools altogether, Or convert all our middle and high schools to 7-12 secondary schools.

> Explain that one.

The Madison North situation is quite clear

The community is being forcably annexed - its said clearly and unequivocally that it doesn't want to be moved and can see no real justification

Its an established community with strong ties to thoreau and madison - no-one has ever explained any good reason why they should be moved

The contrast between
- too small to make a difference
and
- its about masking the performance at Hughes
is easy

MN is too small to make a difference and DESPITE THAT, is being moved in an attempt to mask the performance problem at Hughes (and to a lesser extent South Lakes where diffusion and AP placement will mean it has even less impact)

As far as I'm aware, not a single person from MN has spoken for redistricting

However, the entire process is weighted against MN which is swamped by the large SLHS and HHS communities turning out to yell for their assimilation

The SLHS neighborhood which you mention between MN and the majority of the Madison community was redistricted by administrative fiat during the construction process. It is the peninsula intrusion into the Madison area (presumably to bolster SLHS intake) and it was never intended to provide a justification for the redistricting of the existing community.

MN is separated from Reston by industrial and office buildings - it is not part of reston or the special tax zone

In fact most of the MN closest to Reston is not built out (although permits have been issued) and the majority of people live to the east of the Hunter Mill Road facing Vienna and Oakton which is where their community links are.

If you were at the Hunter Mill Special Study, you would have seen how hard the community fought against the imposition of Reston densities in the MN-area, and a clear part of the argument was that the comprehensive plan is explicit with respect to MN not being part of Reston, rather part of the buffer to stop its expansion and merger with Tysons.

The community does not get access to the Reston Association run leisure facilities and is fundamentally not part of the Reston planned community.

So why is it the only area of the study which has been targeted at elementary-middle-high levels?

If MN has to be moved - move it to Langley with which it is also contiguous - but there's clearly no reason to move it at all

Its been targeted because it looks big on the map - but its not zoned for high density and much is unbuilt.



So why, when its quite clear that the MN community is dead set against being redistricted by force, are Stu, Jane or the at-larges NOT standing up for the rights of their constituents or even making a show of it?


A deals been cut and what the people affected think has nothing to do with it

The whole thing is so Kafka-esqe as to be beyond bizzarre

How about make all FCPS open enrollment with entry exams like TJ. No matter where you lives, you can go to any High Schools in the county as long as you passing the exam for that school.

Baffled Wrote:
>
> With the boundary phase in process, if the RD goes
> through, redistricted kids who are pupil-placed
> out can ride with their older high school
> neighbors (under the grandfather clause). It
> would be absolutely ridiculous if the redistricted
> kids who are granted pupil placment cannot ride
> the bus with the grandfathered older students to
> their "old" schools.


It would be absolutely ridiculous, but I bet it's true. My daughter has been pupil-placed for 3 years. Each year the approval letter has told us that she can't ride a bus due to "insurance" issues. Mom drove her to school every day her sophomore year. Fortunately, (a) she got a parking pass both junior and senior years, and (b) we were able to afford a car for her to drive to school.

APorIBMom Wrote:
> ... The college
> admissions mantra is that they look for signs that
> students took the most rigorous courses available. ...
>
> IB's diploma program also is getting more emphasis
> than its certificate program from the IB
> Organization...
>
> Recent IBO fee changes also tend to make the IB
> program much more expensive than the AP program
> for students who will take only one or two AP or
> IB classes per year. ...
>
> Finally, the new FCPS staff booklet about IB is,
> unfortunately, misleading. ...
>
> ... Staff omits to mention the number of hours required for
> each core math topic by the IBO syllabus, which
> happens to be exactly 48 hours for calculus. ...
>
> Since FCPS teachers have a little more than the
> required 240 hours to teach HL Math over two
> years, perhaps they might cover 60 or 70 rather
> than 48 hours of calculus. Perhaps not, though,
> given FCPS student scores on the HL Math exam. ...
>
> ... Why don't they disclose
> the total number of students at each IB school who
> took the IB HL Math exam last year. ...
>
--------
Excellent, well, written post. Easy to pick out a topic sentence in each paragraph, as I did above, with logical, illuminating examples. (Did you need to take IB to learn to write so well?)

In support of your comments, I again point out that In 05-06 a total of THREE South Lakes students took ANY AP exams. And in 06-07 in the entire county ONE student scored a "7" in HL math and ZERO scored a "7" in IB HL chemistry, biology, OR physics.

no, I meant that the split feeder thing is not ideal in any way, and one way to make it a little easier if they must use them, would be to keep the kids together who had been together for the previous several years and would be together in high school, k to 8 schools would work, and could be a good idea for this county, honestly there should be no split feeders, elementary schools should feed together into a middle school, and that middle school as a whole should feed into one high school

Almost Done with FCPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> >
> > With the boundary phase in process, if the RD
> goes
> > through, redistricted kids who are pupil-placed
> > out can ride with their older high school
> > neighbors (under the grandfather clause). It
> > would be absolutely ridiculous if the
> redistricted
> > kids who are granted pupil placment cannot ride
> > the bus with the grandfathered older students
> to
> > their "old" schools.
>
>
> It would be absolutely ridiculous, but I bet it's
> true. My daughter has been pupil-placed for 3
> years. Each year the approval letter has told us
> that she can't ride a bus due to "insurance"
> issues. Mom drove her to school every day her
> sophomore year. Fortunately, (a) she got a
> parking pass both junior and senior years, and (b)
> we were able to afford a car for her to drive to
> school.


Did that happen during a boundary phase in your area where the older neighbor students were being grandfathered (and bussed) to their schools and you had to provide transportation to your daughter until she was able to drive to school?

Clarity on Madison Island Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> So why, when its quite clear that the MN community
> is dead set against being redistricted by force,
> are Stu, Jane or the at-larges NOT standing up for
> the rights of their constituents or even making a
> show of it?
>
>
> A deals been cut and what the people affected
> think has nothing to do with it
>
> The whole thing is so Kafka-esqe as to be beyond
> bizzarre

I think that in the beginning stages of this RD, when many of us were nervous but trying to keep an open mind, MI seemed like a logical place to RD based on location and the no-islands criteria. The more we've learned about it and the more the RD process has been shown to be totally corrupted, the more we Fox Mill, Floris, etc. folks are united with you. I know that our empathy/sympathy isn't much to eat out on, but please know that most of us aren't in favor of you moving to SL any more than we want to go there. Well, I can't speak for everyone of course, but people I talk to now understand more about your situation and we aren't trying to support screwing you either. Hopefully sanity will emerge and alternative solutions to SL's issues (if anyone can agree what those issues are, jewelry making? competitive sports teams? German 5?) will take hold.

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
> ... SL's issues (if anyone can agree what those issues
> are, jewelry making? competitive sports teams?
> German 5?) ...

I am also waiting for FCPS to state the problem before it votes on a solution.

The problem no longer seems to be either split feeders or overcrowding at other schools. If the problem is now "SLHS parents want more classes available to their children" then what specific classes do they want?

fm/c/o parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I can't speak
> for everyone of course, but people I talk to now
> understand more about your situation and we aren't
> trying to support screwing you either. Hopefully
> sanity will emerge and alternative solutions to
> SL's issues (if anyone can agree what those issues
> are, jewelry making? competitive sports teams?
> German 5?) will take hold.

Thanks for this

- it feels a bit like being an Alaskan when the Government tells you you're the inconvenient sticky out bit and sells you to Canada - it might have socialized healthcare but you didn't sign up to be Canadian

From what the South Lakes students have posted here, my take on the issue of course availability is not the number of available courses, but number of sections per course. Most of us saw the post several pages earlier comparing all courses taught at Oakton and SL - which ones were common between the two, and which were unique. It turned out that South Lakes has a pretty impressive list of courses, afterall. So no one can persuasively argue for such a massive redistricting effort, transplanting families from five high schools and numerous elementary schools just over course selection at South Lakes.

That being the case, and anecdotedly provided straight from South Lakes itself, it is section availability that has been preventing some students from being able to take certain courses due to conflicting schedules. Well, even in larger schools like Westfield this happens. While I sympathize with those students who posted here, along with some of their classmates, they are in good company with hundreds of other students all over Fairfax County who share their disappointment. My observation is that the section availability issue at South Lakes is not radically different from that of other schools, and provides no compelling reason to undertake this redistricting effort.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2008 02:27PM by Berdhuis.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what the South Lakes students have posted
> here, my take on the issue of course availability
> is not the number of available courses, but number
> of sections per course. Most of us saw the post
> several pages earlier comparing all courses taught
> at Oakton and SL - which ones were common between
> the two, and which were unique. It turned out that
> South Lakes has a pretty impressive list of
> courses, afterall. So no one can persuasively
> argue for such a massive redistricting effort,
> transplanting families from five high schools and
> numerous elementary schools just over course
> selection at South Lakes.
>
> That being the case, and anecdotedly provided
> straight from South Lakes itself, it is section
> availability that has been preventing some
> students from being able to take certain courses
> due to conflicting schedules. Well, even in larger
> schools like Westfield this happens. While I
> sympathize with those students who posted here,
> along with some of their classmates, they are in
> good company with hundreds of other students all
> over Fairfax County who share their
> disappointment. My observation is that the section
> availability issue at South Lakes is not radically
> different from that of other schools, and provides
> no compelling reason to undertake this
> redistricting effort.



We preety much know why this is happening. South Lakes is stu's favorite child and Floris, Fox Mill, MI are the step children. All the rest of the reasons are a hog wash. We also know where Kathy stands on this. Remains to be seen where rest of the board members are.

Section availability will get worse for all high schools because of the .5 pupil increase for next year.

In addition all schools will have some courses that will only have one section, like the top chorus class.

Making choices is part of growing up.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
This really drives me insane. There was a
> discussion 2 days ago when some nuetral RD people
> were asking us if we introduce AP in SL will it
> appease the Floris people. Forget it. Stu is such
> a piece of ...
>
> How is this fair? Force kids into a IB school and
> shut the doors on them by not offering any AP
> classes. Will this unjustice survive in court of
> law. I am sure they will say you are always
> allowed to pupil place for AP school. Stu might as
> well forget his next election good bye. He will
> not get any votes from Floris and Fox mill next
> time.

Stu doesn't run again for four years. Everyone will have forgotten about this. Plus, he lost Floris and Fox Mill this time and still won.

When Stu says there is no community interest in discussing AP he means the South Lakes community has no interest it. When he says South Lakes Community he means the 10 ladies on the SL PTSA who report directly to him, his little sycophant gaggle of liberal goslings.

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
We preety much know why this is happening. South
> Lakes is stu's favorite child and Floris, Fox
> Mill, MI are the step children. All the rest of
> the reasons are a hog wash. We also know where
> Kathy stands on this. Remains to be seen where
> rest of the board members are.

Stu and Kathy will need to come to an agreement concerning their schools. The rest of the school board will not interfere since the schools are in not in their districts. Board members do not make decisions about what happens in districts that they do not represent. So they will all vote with Stu and Kathy, except for Hone and Raney since they are at large and therefore also represent those areas. Moon is also at large, but he doesn't care about constituents. He votes with the other democrats, always. The vote will be 10 to 2 unless Stu and Kathy can't agree on the boundaries. Then Kathy will be allowed to vote against the new boundaries, knowing that it will still pass easily on a 9 to 3 vote.

That's my prediction.

OMG Neen I am rolling on the floor!

I love the sycohant gaggle of liberal goslings comment. This is a very educational blog and I get a lot of good stuff but sometimes it gets a little dull!

Thanks for the laugh.

what the h*** use are the at-larges?