Another Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Essay Grader Wrote:
> > Perhaps if Neen had been allowed to take a
> retest
> > or two, she would have learned how to punctuate.
>
> > Her message should read:
> >
> > "It happens at South Lakes and Hughes; it
> doesn't
> > happen at every school in FCPS. If it did,
> many
> > of us who have students in other schools would
> be
> > saying so."
>
> Actually, comma apposition isn't strictly wrong.
> I would avoid it in formal writing, but this forum
> hardly qualifies as such. The extra comma in the
> second sentence should come out; that would be,
> um, a typo.
>
> > She can't write a simple sentence without making
> a
> > mistake, yet presumes to tell the rest of us
> how
> > teachers should educate our kids.
>
> I disagree with Neen much of the time, but she's
> usually coherent — whereas the ad hominem
> attack above adds nothing relevant and lacks
> comity.

I believe that Neen's recently calling Taylor, a South Lakes student, Marie Antoinette, surely qualifies as such an ad hominem attack. We haven't forgotten her kind words about the South Lakes PSTA president, either. Neen certainly wasn't being polite to her.

When she stops attacking others on a personal level, others may be inclined to point out her own errors, both factual and grammatical, with less frequency.

Is anyone aware that Southlakes is telling the students not to discuss SOL's in or OUTSIDE of school. They are not supposed to share info at HOME. Daugher is in Sunrise Valley which is a big feeder to Southlakes. She was told by teacher not to discuss SOL with parents or family or anyone. Scary

[redacted] (a.k.a. Neen) is too bitter and angry to stop. She is a passive aggressive type who has lived through her own children as a way to compensate for her obvious deficits, and now that they are grown, she has nothing left; hence the constant criticism of South Lakes, Stu Gibson, SL students, PTSA President, etc. Pity her...she needs our sympathy and prayers.

edit by Cary: Removed name. Personal attack.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2008 09:43AM by Cary.

Susan Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is anyone aware that Southlakes is telling the
> students not to discuss SOL's in or OUTSIDE of
> school. They are not supposed to share info at
> HOME. Daugher is in Sunrise Valley which is a big
> feeder to Southlakes. She was told by teacher not
> to discuss SOL with parents or family or anyone.
> Scary

If your daughter is at SVES, what does that have to do with South Lakes. What are you trying to say? I don't think you have a clue, but I'm sure Jeanine will find some way to use it to start another baseless rumor for the mill.

These types of generalizations are promoted all the time in intercultural communication courses and training. How true are they? Who knows, obviously there are so many exceptions, especially among "Asians" whose parents are American-born. If FCPS wasn't doing anything to address cultural differences, people would criticize that also, so they are in sort of a no-win situation.

I wish my high schooler showed preference for order and control. The description of white kids seems the dumbest.

Diversity Training at Westfield Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I pulled this gem from the Westfield HS website
> under their Minority Achievement Committee which
> appears to be stacked with Westfield employees. I
> am always suspicious of these independent
> committees that are dominated by FCPS staff-I
> doubt they will be critical of their own
> failures.
>
> Anyways, they put out this 30 pager titled "Why
> Minority Achievement?" I will just mention the
> highlights. Under the section of "Cultural
> Miscommunication" here are some of the tips for
> our educators:
>
> Asian students-
>
> Tend to show respect to people who are older or of
> higher status by remaining silent in their
> presence.
>
> Tend to avoid expressing any strong
> emotion-anger/frustration/sadness/joy (unless
> their shooting up the VA Tech campus, I guess???)
>
> Have been taught to refuse something initially but
> when asked again they usually will accept
>
> African Amercan students-
>
> It is acceptable to express emotions
> freely-responsive reading in church, call outs
>
> Tend to be physically active (huh???)
>
> Tend to interpret life events in racial terms
> especially when outsiders are involved
>
> May come from a different socio-economic level and
> may have experienced generational poverty
>
> Hispanic students-
>
> Avoid direct eye contact
>
> Are taught not to walk away from confrontation
>
> View time as unimportant because time is often
> measured agiculturally
>
> Tend to stand very close when talking to each
> other
>
> White students-
>
> Have low regard for dependent behavior in
> activities
>
> Show preference for order and control
>
> Place high value on standard English
>
>
> Do these make sense to anyone? Is it healthy to
> engage in this type of racial profiling? I just
> think these generalizations about groups is a
> dangerous path.
>
> I am really beginning to wonder what FCPS is doing
> in dealing with these kids.

Susan Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is anyone aware that Southlakes is telling the
> students not to discuss SOL's in or OUTSIDE of
> school. They are not supposed to share info at
> HOME. Daugher is in Sunrise Valley which is a big
> feeder to Southlakes. She was told by teacher not
> to discuss SOL with parents or family or anyone.
> Scary


Scary?? SOLs are standardized tests given to all FCPS students, in this case unlike IB exams, there are make-up days and different schools may have a different test on a given day. It shouldn't be discussed during the testing window, which runs through pretty much mid-June (some ES on modified calendar go longer and testing timeframe goes starts and ends later). If they were to discuss the test cheating could occur, or folks might think cheating had occured and students would have to re-take the test.

Essay Grader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Lurker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Essay Grader Wrote:
> > > Perhaps if Neen had been allowed to take a
> > retest
> > > or two, she would have learned how to
> punctuate.
> >
> > > Her message should read:
> > >
> > > "It happens at South Lakes and Hughes; it
> > doesn't
> > > happen at every school in FCPS. If it did,
> > many
> > > of us who have students in other schools
> would
> > be
> > > saying so."
> >
> > Actually, comma apposition isn't strictly wrong.
>
> > I would avoid it in formal writing, but this
> forum
> > hardly qualifies as such. The extra comma in
> the
> > second sentence should come out; that would be,
> > um, a typo.
> >
> > > She can't write a simple sentence without
> making
> > a
> > > mistake, yet presumes to tell the rest of us
> > how
> > > teachers should educate our kids.
> >
> > I disagree with Neen much of the time, but
> she's
> > usually coherent — whereas the ad hominem
> > attack above adds nothing relevant and lacks
> > comity.
>
> I believe that Neen's recently calling Taylor, a
> South Lakes student, Marie Antoinette, surely
> qualifies as such an ad hominem attack. We
> haven't forgotten her kind words about the South
> Lakes PSTA president, either. Neen certainly
> wasn't being polite to her.
>
> When she stops attacking others on a personal
> level, others may be inclined to point out her own
> errors, both factual and grammatical, with less
> frequency.



I was not reading the Fairfaxunderground when Neen had unkind words about the SLPTA president. I guess I miss that posting. A lot of folks had unkind words about the role the PTA played in the redistricting. There seemed to be some rule that the PTA was not supposed to take sides....which they certainly did. But then there were some pretty strict rules about a Board member taking sides. Gibson certainly did.

Why. I can understand asking students not to discuss the test questions with anyone, but not to even talk about the SOLs that makes little sense.

Edna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why. I can understand asking students not to
> discuss the test questions with anyone, but not to
> even talk about the SOLs that makes little sense.


It is simpler just to say, "don't discuss the tests" than to say don't discuss the questions but you can discuss..

what, Edna would they discuss, if not the questions, out of curiosity?

Essay Grader Wrote:
> I believe that Neen's recently calling Taylor, a
> South Lakes student, Marie Antoinette, surely
> qualifies as such an ad hominem attack. We
> haven't forgotten her kind words about the South
> Lakes PSTA president, either. Neen certainly
> wasn't being polite to her.

Ah. I had missed that aspect of it; true.

Comity, please!

Susan Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is anyone aware that Southlakes is telling the
> students not to discuss SOL's in or OUTSIDE of
> school. They are not supposed to share info at
> HOME. Daugher is in Sunrise Valley which is a big
> feeder to Southlakes. She was told by teacher not
> to discuss SOL with parents or family or anyone.
> Scary



My youngest goes to Sunrise Valley and he talks about SOLs without hesitation. Usually, he starts with "why do we take them" and "they are boring". But no teacher or administrator ever said not to discuss.

What's your kid's teacher's name? I'll follow up and see what this is about. I've never heard of this.....ever.

SLHS/SVES dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Susan Smith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is anyone aware that Southlakes is telling the
> > students not to discuss SOL's in or OUTSIDE of
> > school. They are not supposed to share info at
> > HOME. Daugher is in Sunrise Valley which is a
> big
> > feeder to Southlakes. She was told by teacher
> not
> > to discuss SOL with parents or family or anyone.
>
> > Scary
>
>
>
> My youngest goes to Sunrise Valley and he talks
> about SOLs without hesitation. Usually, he starts
> with "why do we take them" and "they are boring".
> But no teacher or administrator ever said not to
> discuss.
>
> What's your kid's teacher's name? I'll follow up
> and see what this is about. I've never heard of
> this.....ever.


I suppose that a teacher might have said "don't discuss what the questions are. But you imply that there is some kind of conspiracy not to talk about SOLs at all, which I have never heard of.

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do realize that both Loudon, Prince William and I believe Fauquier all have the FCPS scale.< <

Not sure, but I do know that Arlington and Montgomery County Maryland use the generally accepted scale as does most PA and NJ schools. The FCPS scale is the outlier.

> But, they still follow a region for a while, or if new are at least given the stats on that region.< <

After 30 years working as a volunteer with one "prestigious" university's admissions department, please believe me when I tell you that few readers even know where the high schools are geographically located: rural, suburban, urban, upscale, challenged. Never mind the idiocincracies of the high schools individual grading scales.

> So, even in out of state universities, an admission officer at say, NYU has a chunk of the mid-atlantic to cover, and basis his decisions on the norms for that region, and within that region he is epxected to become an expert on the schools.< <

There aren't "regional" norms. The readers are there for less than 3 years on average. Unless they get a high volume of applicants from one particular high school(aka a feeder school), they never figure it out.

> > I highly doubt FCPS is harmed more than any other district with the same scale or differences from their neighboring schools.< <

That's the whole point of fairgrades. FCPS's grading system is having a deleterious impact on the competitiveness of its students transcripts compared to students from schools using the more generally accepted grading scale.

With more colleges de-emphasizing or dropping the SAT, the transcript becomes even more important and FCPS grading scale makes our kids look dumber than those from Arlington, Montgomery and elsewhere in the country. I posted a story about a Fairfax kid applying to UMich earlier on this thread. Check it out.

To the poster who decided to identify another poster by name-

I think your actions are cowardly. Unless you want to identify yourself by name you should respect the anonymity that is accepted on this forum.

Shame on you. Another reason to dislike the SLHS people.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rumor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You do realize that both Loudon, Prince William
> and I believe Fauquier all have the FCPS scale.<
> <
>
> Not sure, but I do know that Arlington and
> Montgomery County Maryland use the generally
> accepted scale as does most PA and NJ schools.
> The FCPS scale is the outlier.

FCPS is not an outlier since Loudon, Prince William and Fauquier also have the same scale (and in some of the more rural pockets in those counties, with perhaps fewer AP options boosting up the GPA by .5 or 1, they may be a true outlier).
>
> That's the whole point of fairgrades. FCPS's
> grading system is having a deleterious impact on
> the competitiveness of its students transcripts
> compared to students from schools using the more
> generally accepted grading scale.
>
> With more colleges de-emphasizing or dropping the
> SAT, the transcript becomes even more important
> and FCPS grading scale makes our kids look dumber
> than those from Arlington, Montgomery and
> elsewhere in the country. I posted a story about
> a Fairfax kid applying to UMich earlier on this
> thread. Check it out.

I will try to find that (is it a true story?), in the meantime, check this article written by a Dean of Admissions on this very issue: [notjustadmissions.wordpress.com]

I will acknowledge that in terms of scholarships there might be a huge disadvantage because those committees might not look as closely at transcript/grading scale differences, as the admissions officers. I appreciate all the info you provided about that by the way, just didn't quote it all here. I simply disagree with their skill level (or ability to learn about their region).

Thanks for the shout out. Actually the counsellors there tell me Arlington has no district policy on grading, and each school can go their own way on the issue.

As for admissions officers, we generally do know the schools we read. For those we don't the schools send along helpful profiles. As I said in my article, that doesn't mean this is or isn't an issue, but I thought it would be helpful to clarify that most admissions officers are familiar with, and atuned to , various grading scales.

"The test was not hard." "The test was really, really hard." "I blew every answer mom...dad." "Don't worry.....I only left 10 blank."

There is a lot to talk about without addressing specific questions.

To: "She Can't Stop" aka anonymous unregistered wimp.


It has been a very long time since I've posted here...but, you crossed a boundary with your incorrect ident....

Would you like me to post your name, address, date of birth and what you had for dinner on this public forum? Get back to me on that, would you?

To those of you who think only SL pyramid students are told not to talk about the SOL tests. Please call or write the state officials (web site below)

[www.doe.virginia.gov]

who are in charge of approving the written directions in the test packet which is totally scripted for the teacher to read. The state officials can confirm for you that the teacher must read this script and it very clearly says NOT to discuss the test with anyone. Unfortunately, on the released tests they publish on this website they have cut out the "read" directions by the teacher. That is where you would find the specific words the teacher dictates to the students.

There is no SL or any other conspiracy about discussing the SOL tests, it is state procedure. Move on.............

Ah, the infamous VaDriver! FYI, Neen has 'outed' many posters on this forum. Caroline Hemenway comes to mind. She has even written about the children of poster's that she has outed on this forum, and identified where they attend school. How's that for a lack of discretion? If she can't stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen. BTW, she has been 'outed' by many other posters and because she puts herself out there she deserves what she gets.

Oh my word!!! This has been decided. Fox Mill, you got to move with Floris rather than McNair to South Lakes. It has been decided.

She Can't Stop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [redacted] (a.k.a. Neen) is too bitter and
> angry to stop. She is a passive aggressive type
> who has lived through her own children as a way to
> compensate for her obvious deficits, and now that
> they are grown, she has nothing left; hence the
> constant criticism of South Lakes, Stu Gibson, SL
> students, PTSA President, etc. Pity her...she
> needs our sympathy and prayers.
> edit by Cary: Removed name. Personal attack.

Obsessed with a woman on a message board. She gets you idiots riled up, every damn time. You south lake dopes can't help falling for it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2008 09:44AM by Cary.

Defense of She Can't Stop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ah, the infamous VaDriver! FYI, Neen has 'outed'
> many posters on this forum. Caroline Hemenway
> comes to mind. She has even written about the
> children of poster's that she has outed on this
> forum, and identified where they attend school.
> How's that for a lack of discretion? If she can't
> stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen.
> BTW, she has been 'outed' by many other posters
> and because she puts herself out there she
> deserves what she gets.

Chicken shit posters from South Lakes. Out yourself and maybe we'll be impressed.

deanflagel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>. . . . the counsellors there tell me Arlington has no district policy on grading, and each school can go their own way on the issue.

Sorry Dean but the Arlington school system uses the more widely adopted grading scale, e.g. 90 = A- = 3.75 v. Fairfax 90 = B+ = 3.5. Same work gets 0.25 higher GPA in Arlington.

> > As for admissions officers, we generally do know the schools we read. For those we don't the schools send along helpful profiles. As I said in my article, that doesn't mean this is or isn't an issue, but I thought it would be helpful to clarify that most admissions officers are familiar with, and atuned to, various grading scales.

So comparing the grading systems for Johnston, Pa, Redbank NJ and Frederick, MD to the FFX system, what adjustments do your file readers make?

While you're at it, please explain why GMU can only graduate 26% of its students in 4 years?

rumord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > FCPS is not an outlier since Loudon, Prince William and Fauquier also have the same scale < <

Only if your frame of reference is so provincial as to limit the samples to a small part of Virginia. When the frame of reference is the mid-atlantic states or the nation as a whole, the FCPS scale is the outlier.

> I will try to find that (is it a true story?),

Yes

> > in the meantime, check this article written by a Dean of Admissions on this very issue: [notjustadmissions.wordpress.com] 230/ < <

Who wrote this and was their intended audience high school graduates?

I've seen more sophisticated insights regarding this issue on the back of a Wheaties box.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rumord Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > FCPS is not an outlier since Loudon, Prince
> William and Fauquier also have the same scale < <
>
> Only if your frame of reference is so provincial
> as to limit the samples to a small part of
> Virginia. When the frame of reference is the
> mid-atlantic states or the nation as a whole, the
> FCPS scale is the outlier.

I reiterated the other counties since you said FCPS was an outlier when you looked at MoCo and Arlington. If you look at the mid-atlantic or the nation as a whole, then all 3 counties (FCPS, Loudon and PW) are the outliers. And that pre-supposes that no other states in the mid-atlantic, or the nation, have counties within them that use the tougher scale.

I am not entirely rejecting what Fair Grade has to say, but the FCPS scale has been in use for sometime now (2 decades) and I am unclear why it is suddenly putting our graduates at a disadvantage.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Who wrote this and was their intended audience
> high school graduates?
>

I assumed you understood when DeanFlagel wrote "thanks for the shoutout" that he was the author. It is from a blog of his (for anyone interested in college admissions) and isn't written as a scholary piece by any means.

I came across the blog when reading something from the Washington Post.

wrt - the grading scale and putting grads at a disadvantage....

It really doesn't matter whether 94-100 is A or 92-100 or 90-100. VA universities are going to continue to limit the number of students they take from each school. The disadvantage here is that you have a higher percentage of qualified students at most FCPS high schools. So if you soften up the grading scale, you will raise the bar in terms of what it takes to be accepted at those schools.

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > It really doesn't matter whether 94-100 is A or 92-100 or 90-100. VA universities are going to continue to limit the number of students they take from each school. The disadvantage here is that you have a higher percentage of qualified students at most FCPS high schools.< <

You are soooooo right on this point.

Va's public university system is too small, too expensive, admits too few Va. residents, admits too many out of staters, graduates far too few and takes far too long to do so.

> > So if you soften up the grading scale, you will raise the bar in terms of what it takes to be accepted at those schools.< <

I take exception to the description of conforming to the more widely accepted grading scale as "softening."

It's only "raising the bar" if the perspective is limited to Va. public universities. At the other 3,000 colleges, shifting FCPS's grading scale to the more widely utilized scale would remove a disadvantage it currently imposes on its kids.

Since so many FCPS kids must now seek admission at out of state school, as FCPS's quota at Va public colleges is filled so readily, it's becoming an ever increasing issue.

A cynic might suggest that this grading scale was intentionally adopted to disqualify as many kids as possible from a college education. Such an intention would be consistent with Va.'s rich long exclusionary tradition.

Thomas More - you are absolutely correct that FCPS grading scale absolutely negatively impacts students at Univ. of Mich. The first thing U Mich does when looking at any applicant is "transform" their GPA into a Univ. of Michigan GPA, which means that they throw out 9th grade (most of the time), take away all pluses and reduce them to a base letter grade, count only what they consider core courses (those A's in psychology don't help), and fairly well look to at least a 3.7 GPA after all this is said and done.

If more schools move to the U Mich model - which permits them to have high applicant quality while being one of the larger and most competitive schools in the nation - FCPS will have to consider its grading programs.

The groundswell to achieve parity with admission to an out of state school like U Mich might be limited given the excellence of Va.'s state schools, but as I say, if more schools look to their model, real pressure will come to bear.

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I reiterated the other counties since you said FCPS was an outlier when you looked at MoCo and Arlington. If you look at the mid-atlantic or the nation as a whole, then all 3 counties (FCPS, Loudon and PW) are the outliers. And that pre-supposes that no other states in the mid-atlantic, or the nation, have counties within them that use the tougher scale.< <

I'm familiar with grading scales at high schools in PA, NJ, NY and New England and have found none that use the FFX scale.

> > I am not entirely rejecting what Fair Grade has to say, but the FCPS scale has been in use for sometime now (2 decades) and I am unclear why it is suddenly putting our graduates at a disadvantage.< <

Va. idolized slavery for 200+ years too, should we bring that back?

(Sorry for the snark but it was just too easy. Old joke: How many Virginians does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 13 - 1 to do it; 2 to stand around talking about what a great light bulb the old light was; and 10 Wahoo doctoral candidates to write their dissertations about the advantages and disadvantages of that particular light bulb. Probably told by a VTech grad.)

See my immediately prior post.

As recently as 8 years ago VTech and JMU were safety schools for SL grads, taking every kid who didn't get into UVA and W&M. Now their younger siblings are lucky to get into CNU, ODU or Radford.

Thus, more and more FCPS kids are going to out of state public colleges which have higher graduation rates, and in a few cases cost Va parents less, than VA public colleges.

So using an unusual grading scale is having an adverse impact on those kids.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Thomas More - you are absolutely correct that FCPS grading scale absolutely negatively impacts students at Univ. of Mich.

Thanks for the verification.

> > given the excellence of Va.'s state schools . . .< <

No way are CNU, ODU and Radord comparable to Eastern, Central and Western Michigan.

I would put UMich significantly ahead of UVA. Same with MichTech and VTech.

Michigan's public university system is bigger and far better than Va's but that's true of almost every northern and western state.

Like every thing else, Va came very late to the broad based public university system which was driven in most states by the need for large numbers of public school teachers which Va adopted much later than her sister states in the north and west. See Dominion of Memories by Susan Dunn. Va is still trying to catch up for the mistakes described therein.

I think FairGrades needs to take on the issue of declining seats available to FCPS grads in VA state schools. NOVO parents pay the bulk of the taxes in the state-we damn well should get more seats at the schools that we pay for.

Hopefully they will broaden their platform.

No argument about the quality of Umich here. It is one of the best universities in the world, and its graduate programs consistently outpace all of Uva's and are in the top 10 in virtually every field - a remarkable record. The marketplace also desires Michigan grads because they tend to learn to fend for themselves given the size of the school but do not have the preppy elitism that still infects UVa (my brother is a former UVa professor and found this factor disappointing with many UVa students). But realistically, the opportunities available to UMich and UVa graduates are typically plentiful, and given UVa's price for in-state students, it is a deal that most find a difficult time passing up.

While Radford, ODU, and CNU are what they are - places where you really must be focused and in the right major to get a truly rigorous education - the state of Michigan (I am from the midwest myself) has no public counterpart to William and Mary - one of the most competitive liberal arts schools in the country, and I see little difference in quality between Virginia Tech and Michigan State and Tech's alumni network and great array of technical majors here makes it a very sensible choice for many.

And while Western, Central and Eastern Michigan are all reasonably competent schools, they are not as competitive for admittance as JMU and frankly aren't much different than JMU or Mary Washington et.al in terms of quality. Although I agree the midwest has generally done a better job in preparing teachers - and fulfills that mission well - there are not any sizeable gaps between the JMU's and Western Michigans of the world.

The point being is that Virginia sizes up very well in terms of its universities - and generally they are a significant Commonwealth asset. Anyone looking for a tie breaker between living in Virginia or Maryland should find Virginia's schools a really large factor - Maryland's university system has been poorly treated for years (although College Park is getting better), as decades of subsidizing every form of expensive Great Society program in Baltimore have taken their toll.

And given this is the case, folks in Fairfax do have a vested interest in having their students evaluated fairly for admission - the educational values are too good of a deal to easily ignore. I am not sure what the FCPS grading system in and of itself does to the Virginia college admissions process - surely the admissions officers at the Virginia schools know exactly what a 3.7 at Westfield with 5 AP courses means in terms of relatively quality. Perhaps in the end the FCPS scale is used by the universities to justify limiting Northern Virginians - if empirically that could ever be shown to be the case - a difficult task - FCPS would have to face the grading issue squarely - having their customers admitted to Virginia schools is just that important.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No argument about the quality of Umich here.< <

I think we're basically in agreement.

My point about teachers is that the northern and western states adopted free public elementary and secondary education sooner and needed a large college (now university) system to develop and supply the teachers for that system sooner than Va.

Va has fewer public universities than MI, PA or NC.

And the overall quality top to bottom doesn't compare.

If it weren't so durn far away I'd send my kid to Grand Valley State before Longwood or CNU.

Yet CNU admissions staff tells SL kids they expect incoming freshman to have a 3.5 GPA and a 1200 SAT (old scale).

With those credentials, a kid to go to many out of state public colleges with a 4 yr. grad rate better than the 12% @ CNU.

That's the safety school SL kids are being shunted off to. It's an indictment of the VA General Assembly that this is the best VA has to offer to B+/A- students from FFX who will be the back bone of any institution or company.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2008 01:45PM by Thomas More.

CAPS recent report on IB vs AP is a wake up call. All of the people of ffx county should fight against this SB to remove IB and provide equal opportunity to all with AP. It is amazing that the SB has selectively chosen the poorer more diverse areas and saddled them with IB. Brazen discrimination

Thomas Moore,
The UVA joke goes like this:
How many Wahoos does it take to change a light bulb?

Three. One to change the bulb, one to mix the bourbon and branch, and one to talk about how Mr.Jefferson would have changed the light bulb.

caps ib report Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CAPS recent report on IB vs AP is a wake up call.
> All of the people of ffx county should fight
> against this SB to remove IB and provide equal
> opportunity to all with AP. It is amazing that the
> SB has selectively chosen the poorer more diverse
> areas and saddled them with IB. Brazen
> discrimination

They stuck those schools with IB because they COULD. The school board didn't dare put it in the other schools where the parents would have objected mightily. They tried at Woodson, but were forced to retreat. They knew better than to try it again at high schools Langley, Oakton, Madison, McLean, etc.

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No argument about the quality of Umich here. It is
> one of the best universities in the world, and its
> graduate programs consistently outpace all of
> Uva's and are in the top 10 in virtually every
> field - a remarkable record. The marketplace also
> desires Michigan grads because they tend to learn
> to fend for themselves given the size of the
> school but do not have the preppy elitism that
> still infects UVa (my brother is a former UVa
> professor and found this factor disappointing with
> many UVa students). But realistically, the
> opportunities available to UMich and UVa graduates
> are typically plentiful, and given UVa's price for
> in-state students, it is a deal that most find a
> difficult time passing up.
>
> While Radford, ODU, and CNU are what they are -
> places where you really must be focused and in the
> right major to get a truly rigorous education -
> the state of Michigan (I am from the midwest
> myself) has no public counterpart to William and
> Mary - one of the most competitive liberal arts
> schools in the country, and I see little
> difference in quality between Virginia Tech and
> Michigan State and Tech's alumni network and
> great array of technical majors here makes it a
> very sensible choice for many.
>
> And while Western, Central and Eastern Michigan
> are all reasonably competent schools, they are not
> as competitive for admittance as JMU and frankly
> aren't much different than JMU or Mary Washington
> et.al in terms of quality. Although I agree the
> midwest has generally done a better job in
> preparing teachers - and fulfills that mission
> well - there are not any sizeable gaps between the
> JMU's and Western Michigans of the world.
>
> The point being is that Virginia sizes up very
> well in terms of its universities - and generally
> they are a significant Commonwealth asset. Anyone
> looking for a tie breaker between living in
> Virginia or Maryland should find Virginia's
> schools a really large factor - Maryland's
> university system has been poorly treated for
> years (although College Park is getting better),
> as decades of subsidizing every form of expensive
> Great Society program in Baltimore have taken
> their toll.
>
> And given this is the case, folks in Fairfax do
> have a vested interest in having their students
> evaluated fairly for admission - the educational
> values are too good of a deal to easily ignore. I
> am not sure what the FCPS grading system in and of
> itself does to the Virginia college admissions
> process - surely the admissions officers at the
> Virginia schools know exactly what a 3.7 at
> Westfield with 5 AP courses means in terms of
> relatively quality. Perhaps in the end the FCPS
> scale is used by the universities to justify
> limiting Northern Virginians - if empirically that
> could ever be shown to be the case - a difficult
> task - FCPS would have to face the grading issue
> squarely - having their customers admitted to
> Virginia schools is just that important.

I assume that you are aware that is more difficult for our FCPS students to be accepted at CNU than at ODU, Radford, GMU, and lately, Mary Washington. Under Paul Trible CNU has made great strides.

Virginia schools need no justification for limiting students from northern Virginia other than it's only fair to admit students from all parts of the state. If they didn't limit NoVA students, there would be no room for any other students since our students have higher SATs and take more rigorous course work.

Virginia colleges are aware of FC high schools and their strange grading. Fairgrade is much more of an issue for the many students who apply to colleges outside the Commonwealth, imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2008 02:13AM by Neen.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume that you are aware that is more difficult for our FCPS students to be accepted at CNU than at ODU, Radford, GMU, and lately, Mary Washington.< <

MWU is harder for girls, easier for boys. MWU is trying to get its % of women below 65%. Otherwise you are correct.

> > Under Paul Trible CNU has made great strides.< <

Of course the Republican is doing a great job, just ask Bob Marshall.

> > Virginia schools need no justification for limiting students from northern Virginia other than it's only fair to admit students from all parts of the state.< <

Why, we're paying from them with our taxes?

> If they didn't limit NoVA students, there would be no room for any other students since our students have higher SATs and take more rigorous course work.<

To quote the Prince of Darkness: So?

We're paying for them, we should get first dibs on every seat at W&M, VTech & JMU. Let the kids from districts who won't pay for new public colleges go to CNU, Radford, Longwood, ODU and VCU. And let UVA become a private school right after it reimburses the rest of us for the fair market value of the assets they'd be taking with them. (There's a strong push for this among some of the more elitist Wahoo alums. Then it would literally be Mr. Jefferson's country club.)

Or maybe there should be enough seats at public colleges in Va for all the kids who can handle college material, as most of the other states in the U.S. have as an objective.

> > Virginia colleges are aware of FC high schools and their strange grading. Fairgrade is much more of an issue for the many students who apply to colleges outside the Commonwealth, imo.< <

Since Bill Howell and Bob McDonnell won't build the minimum number of road miles needed in Va, it's fair to anticipate they won't be supporting any new public colleges in VA so that it can educate all of VA kids for the 21st century.

Therefore, an ever growing percentage of FCPS students will have to go to out of state public colleges and the SB better fix this additional handicap they're imposing on FFX families damn quick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2008 03:53AM by Thomas More.

Always an axe to grind, huh? Why is it that you choose to partner with so many Wahoos, if you loathe them so much?

Fairfax May Junk Study on Behavior
Staff Report Shows Racial, Ethnic Gaps Among Students

By Michael Alison Chandler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 5, 2008; B01



Fairfax County School Board members said they are likely to abandon a staff report that showed racial and ethnic gaps in some measures of student behavior, including in the demonstration of "sound moral character and ethical judgment."

The board had delayed an April vote to approve the report after concerns were raised that findings were based on subjective measures, such as elementary report card data, and that they would fuel negative stereotypes.

Board member Phillip A. Niedzielski-Eichner (Providence) said yesterday that he plans to propose at a June 19 meeting that a vote on the report be postponed indefinitely. Several board members have indicated their support, he said.

Board member Martina A. Hone (At Large) said that the original report is "fatally flawed" and that it doesn't make sense "to work on fixing it." She said she is pleased with the way the board is rethinking it. "I think we have come out a stronger school board," she said.

The school system's report was an early attempt to measure progress on a host of goals the board considers "essential" for success in the workplace. It identified disparities among groups of students in several skills, including the ability to contribute effectively in a group, resolve conflicts and make healthy choices, and in the demonstration of moral character and ethical judgment.

Board members plan to approve revisions to their goals June 19 to make the wording more precise. Superintendent Jack D. Dale will again be given the challenge of developing methods for interpreting and measuring the goals.

In coming months, the board intends to review the potential for teacher bias in report cards and whether it makes sense to analyze nonacademic measures by race and ethnicity.

The staff report on student behavior recently drew criticism from the chairman of the Minority Student Achievement Oversight Committee.

In a letter to School Board Chairman Daniel G. Storck (Mount Vernon) last month, Ralph Cooper wrote that the report and some recent school system budget decisions had "damaged any credibility [the School Board] may have had in improving minority student achievement."

The letter, attached to the committee's annual report, urged the board to hire a consultant to roll out its "essential life skills" goals and to work with the advisory committee and other groups.

"We would like to be part of the team," Cooper said in an interview.

The 31-member committee consists of school system employees and community members and has advised the board on minority student issues for more than 13 years.

The committee's report included suggestions for how the school system can reach out to minority parents to encourage them to be effective advocates for their children's education.

After hearing from nearly 100 people at three meetings, the committee concluded that too often minority parents feel "a sense of alienation" in their children's public schools. Many could not name their school board representatives or articulate their functions, the report said.

The report noted some positive trends, including a reduction in the dropout rate for black and Hispanic students. But it also found mixed results in efforts to reduce achievement gaps in English test scores for those groups.

Overall, Cooper said, "progress is too slow."

What a waste of time and money.

Just started a book that many on this thread should read:-).

It is about, "The High Cost of Invasive Parenting"

the book is: A Nation of Wimps by Hara Estroff Marano...

good read for SL PTSA who mounted a campaign to force other people children to contribute to their children's education.

rumor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just started a book that many on this thread
> should read:-).
>
> It is about, "The High Cost of Invasive
> Parenting"
>
> the book is: A Nation of Wimps by Hara Estroff
> Marano...

good read for SL PTSA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good read for SL PTSA who mounted a campaign to
> force other people children to contribute to their
> children's education.
>
> rumor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just started a book that many on this thread
> > should read:-).
> >
> > It is about, "The High Cost of Invasive
> > Parenting"
> >
> > the book is: A Nation of Wimps by Hara Estroff
> > Marano...


And a good read for all parents who think their children will be horribly harmed by going to a different high school than they thought...

good read for SL PTSA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good read for SL PTSA who mounted a campaign to
> force other people children to contribute to their
> children's education.
>
> rumor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just started a book that many on this thread
> > should read:-).
> >
> > It is about, "The High Cost of Invasive
> > Parenting"
> >
> > the book is: A Nation of Wimps by Hara Estroff
> > Marano...


Some might resent being defined as "other people children".

That definition fits many anti-RDers to a T.

On two occassions, I have asked Tina Hone for data on IB/AP participation rates broken down by schools and ethnicity. I also asked for SAT/ACT rates with the same breakdowns. I also asked for drop out rates per schools.

No response, of course. Time to file a FOIA. It really bugs me when these public servatnts don't respond and don't even have the courtesy to refer you to someone within FCPS.

Time to play hardball. It seems to be the most effective way of dealing with FCPS. You have to shame them in the newspapers to get their attention.

Yes, Neen, I am aware of the increased challenge that No. Va students have in gaining admittance to Va. schools. I am not persuaded, although it is possible,
that the grading scale in and of itself impacts Va. school admissions - it may just be a case of raw geographic discrimination - which is disturbing for taxpayers in No. Virginia. To the extent that the grading scale can be shown to have a negative impact above and beyond the raw geographic discriminatory practices that exist, I would think that this alone would cause even the rather arrogant and self-satisfied FCPS to look anew at their policies - admission to Virginia schools is that important to parents and students. I would think you would agree with this clarified statement, except perhaps for the view that even a very probative set of data would cause the school system to change - my confidence may be misplaced and somewhat naive.

On another topic, I am curious as to the lack of genuine feedback on the substance, or rigor of the YS program. Do we really have a novel and unique approach to overcome what virtually no other public schools systems have done? I would think that the poster Young Scholars has an opinion and knows more than he or she is letting on. I think an important topic - it goes straight to the integrity of the schools' academic missions.

Dean Tistadt should lose his job over this disaster.


effect of power outage on Westfield
Posted by: WHS Student (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2008 11:48AM


WESTFIELD HIGH SCHOOL:
Today was simply a waste of four hours.
No A/C, No lights (few emergency lights), the PA system (not loud enough), no wi-fi/server (therefore no grading, no attendance).

ABSOLUTE CHAOS
3200 kids, no rules, no nothing. Even some of the water appliances werent working (fountains). No refrigeration (no lunch), nothing.

i've never seen such a sight, on such a grand scale. Today was absolute anarchy, and I dont' ever think there will ever be anything like it.

I hated AND loved it.
Anybody else have any interesting stories?

During the redistricting, the rumor was that Hone also asked for data on IB participants and IB Diploma graduates. I heard that she could not not get it.

I know people asked for the data from Dr. Goodman, pyramid director and from SL.

Yes it is time for FOIA. Don't hold your breathe while waiting for the information. However, if you get it, please post on the underground.

Have you searched the FCSB website for some of the data? IB data for SL is not posted.





Hone does not respond Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On two occassions, I have asked Tina Hone for data
> on IB/AP participation rates broken down by
> schools and ethnicity. I also asked for SAT/ACT
> rates with the same breakdowns. I also asked for
> drop out rates per schools.
>
> No response, of course. Time to file a FOIA. It
> really bugs me when these public servatnts don't
> respond and don't even have the courtesy to refer
> you to someone within FCPS.
>
> Time to play hardball. It seems to be the most
> effective way of dealing with FCPS. You have to
> shame them in the newspapers to get their
> attention.