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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: EvilGibson ()
Date: February 16, 2008 04:53PM

If Gibson is not evil, who is? The RD proposed by evil Gibson is baseless and will hurt the whole Fox Mill community.
The tactic of having communities fight among each other, and even having neighbor fight against each other. Is this the value SB trying to implant into the society and the children. Where is the trust?
It's SB members like Gibson that should take all the blames for any school shootings in this county. It's the bully tactics evils like Gibson who twisted the minds of our children and cause prolonged damages to their mental health.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 16, 2008 05:24PM

v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Also, Thomas More...what is FFT?

It's the AFL-CIO affiliated teachers association (public employees are not allowed to have unions in VA)

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 16, 2008 05:45PM

in3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Anyway, I find it appalling that the School
> Board
> > members who conceived this partition, know
> already
> > that we are going to be split in order to
> create
> > the Coppermine ES district. Splitting
> > neighborhoods in general has proven to
> contradict
> > the SB's criteria, and has rightly gained much
> > opposition. But cutting us up into three pieces
> > simultaneously is purposely working in the
> > opposite direction of good intentions.
>
>
> But it is ok that they do this to Floris, I guess.

I know some us in McNair are equally opposed to what is being done to Floris.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 16, 2008 05:56PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More asks: "Did anyone's kid sign up for
> Human Geography?"
>
> I'm personally interested in stuff like that, as
> my historical atlases can attent to, but it seems
> like a low priority for most kids, either for high
> school or college. Are there college programs
> with a geography requirement?

No. Nor do colleges give credit for this silly class.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 16, 2008 05:59PM

need to know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is Stu putting all this time in on the school
> board project on his own time or is he taking
> leave from his real job at the department of
> Justice? There have been quite a few meetings
> that have taken place during what would seem like
> normal DoJ business hours (9am-530pm) that Stu has
> been at. Was he on leave?? There have also been
> quite a few emails with times indicating when they
> were sent again it seems like normal business
> hours.
>
> Maybe the members of the board are entitled to
> time to work on SB issues while at work or allowed
> time off for SB work I am not sure of the rules.
> Does anyone know?
>
> Thanks

Stu would have the same rules as any other federal employee. If he is not at work he has to use leave of some kind. The SB doesn't tell DOJ what he can do on their time. His DOJ boss would determine that.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 16, 2008 06:03PM

Run some guesstimates on schools residences in the context of B.1. :
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/edo/filecomp.htm

Sometimes specific actions taken to ensure not attending some schools seem to be violations of this law. Bussing kids miles rather than using diverse schools seems dicey. Guess it could also be a problem with not using South Lakes. Also a problem with Langley.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: continual reverse busing ()
Date: February 16, 2008 07:16PM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Run some guesstimates on schools residences in the
> context of B.1. :
> http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/edo/filecomp.htm
>
> Sometimes specific actions taken to ensure not
> attending some schools seem to be violations of
> this law. Bussing kids miles rather than using
> diverse schools seems dicey. Guess it could also
> be a problem with not using South Lakes. Also a
> problem with Langley.

You'd have a hard time persuading anyone, especially the courts, that a county has to keep redistricting its residents to even out waves of legal and illegal immigration. Even in liberal NoVA with its well integrated global population - it would be like lighting a blue touch-paper for civil war, a lawyers delight - especially after FFX submarined the study on the cost of service provision to illegals earlier this year. $3M in legal provision wouldn't begin to cover it.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 16, 2008 07:58PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> v Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Also, Thomas More...what is FFT?
>
> It's the AFL-CIO affiliated teachers association
> (public employees are not allowed to have unions
> in VA)

Do you mean AFT? Or the FEA? Both are unions, although they like to call themselves associations, fewer bad connotations. Our teachers belong to both although FEA is much bigger. AFT members tend to be more 'old school', believing in real math, real literature, no dumbing down, etc.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 16, 2008 08:21PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > v Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Also, Thomas More...what is FFT?
> >
> > It's the AFL-CIO affiliated teachers
> association
> > (public employees are not allowed to have
> unions
> > in VA)
>
> Do you mean AFT? Or the FEA? Both are unions,
> although they like to call themselves
> associations, fewer bad connotations. Our teachers
> belong to both although FEA is much bigger. AFT
> members tend to be more 'old school', believing in
> real math, real literature, no dumbing down, etc.

You're right, I meant FEA. Thanks

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bus driver ()
Date: February 16, 2008 08:42PM

I am a member of FCSBEA (Fairfax County School Board Employees Association) which just merged with FEA/NEA! Despite Queen Neen's testimony, they are NOT unions in the usual sense, but they do what they can for us.

Now us flunkies (bus, food, custodial) employees have the same "member" benefits as instructional staff! I pay $16 a payday. I do it mainly for the $1 million dollar liability insurance policy...not that I have anything to lose (except my freedom)...but for the low-cost legal representation that membership provides.

The reason I am concerned about this is "mainstreaming", where special needs children are bused with so-called "normal" kids. I have 2 on my middle school run, a boy and a girl, and for some reason, your wonderful, intelligent, well-bred children like to make/see them cry. Most of your kids are a bunch of fucking sadists, and if I have to, I WILL physically protect those sweet kids. Hence my interest in low-cost legal services.

Maybe that's why you are so afraid of South Lakes High School? Your spoiled, ill-raised, wild-ass kids might get their skulls split if they fuck with the wrong kid there.

Interestingly, the "inferior" students (blacks, hispanics,etc) you are so afraid of, often have a compassion for the "retards" that your prodigies do not. And they're not afraid to show it. Instill better morals in your kids and you won't have to worry about SLHS.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 16, 2008 08:50PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > v Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Also, Thomas More...what is FFT?
> >
> > It's the AFL-CIO affiliated teachers
> association
> > (public employees are not allowed to have
> unions
> > in VA)
>
> Do you mean AFT? Or the FEA? Both are unions,
> although they like to call themselves
> associations, fewer bad connotations. Our teachers
> belong to both although FEA is much bigger. AFT
> members tend to be more 'old school', believing in
> real math, real literature, no dumbing down, etc.

Just for the record, some teachers belong to neither. I for one find fault with both, and choose not to belong. But, you are right in terms of size and differing views.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: look out for wild-ass bus-drivers ()
Date: February 16, 2008 08:52PM

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your spoiled, ill-raised, wild-ass
> kids might get their skulls split if they fuck
> with the wrong kid there.
>
>And they're not afraid to show it.
> Instill better morals in your kids and you won't
> have to worry about SLHS.


You're never far from an ill-informed bigot - it just a shame we have to pay their wages - scares me that it looks like they're driving our kids as well, gives hard working bus drivers a bad name

No one I've met in decades has any sense of "inferior" students - but there are plenty of chips on shoulders as far as I can see

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bus driver ()
Date: February 16, 2008 09:25PM

look out for wild-ass bus-drivers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bus driver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your spoiled, ill-raised, wild-ass
> > kids might get their skulls split if they fuck
> > with the wrong kid there.
> >
> >And they're not afraid to show it.
> > Instill better morals in your kids and you
> won't
> > have to worry about SLHS.
>
>
> You're never far from an ill-informed bigot - it
> just a shame we have to pay their wages - scares
> me that it looks like they're driving our kids as
> well, gives hard working bus drivers a bad name
>
> No one I've met in decades has any sense of
> "inferior" students - but there are plenty of
> chips on shoulders as far as I can see


Go fuck yourself. Bus drivers are the last line of defense for our children.

Don't send an aunt or uncle, or a babysitter that we don't know down to meet your kindergartner. We will not let a child off the bus to someone we don't know, no matter how loud they scream. If they want to get physical or trespass on the bus, okay, but be advised,there is a "panic button" on every bus. FCPD will be there in a heartbeat. (The bus number isn't on the roof for no reason)

And when your "honeymoon" ends, TELL US!!! I can't tell you the parental kidnappings that I have thwarted. Right now, I have 4 fathers and 1 mothers' "mug shots" on my bus. I lost a kid to a kidnapping 10 years ago and it still wears on my soul. (I was off and the sub just didn't know)

I don't care if you suburban moms think I'm an ignorant piece of shit. My life mission is getting kids home safe, ALL of them, EVERY day.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FCSBEA ()
Date: February 16, 2008 09:31PM

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a member of FCSBEA (Fairfax County School
> Board Employees Association) which just merged
> with FEA/NEA! Despite Queen Neen's testimony,
> they are NOT unions in the usual sense, but they
> do what they can for us.
>
> Now us flunkies (bus, food, custodial) employees
> have the same "member" benefits as instructional
> staff! I pay $16 a payday. I do it mainly for
> the $1 million dollar liability insurance
> policy...not that I have anything to lose (except
> my freedom)...but for the low-cost legal
> representation that membership provides.
>
> The reason I am concerned about this is
> "mainstreaming", where special needs children are
> bused with so-called "normal" kids. I have 2 on
> my middle school run, a boy and a girl, and for
> some reason, your wonderful, intelligent,
> well-bred children like to make/see them cry.
> Most of your kids are a bunch of fucking sadists,
> and if I have to, I WILL physically protect those
> sweet kids. Hence my interest in low-cost legal
> services.
>
> Maybe that's why you are so afraid of South Lakes
> High School? Your spoiled, ill-raised, wild-ass
> kids might get their skulls split if they fuck
> with the wrong kid there.
>
> Interestingly, the "inferior" students (blacks,
> hispanics,etc) you are so afraid of, often have a
> compassion for the "retards" that your prodigies
> do not. And they're not afraid to show it.
> Instill better morals in your kids and you won't
> have to worry about SLHS.

I have it good authority that this post is bogus, and that it was posted by a SL PTA parent trying to get people's goat. I hope people will not take this seriously. Somebody did not take their meds today.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: look out for the wild ass bus driver ()
Date: February 16, 2008 09:39PM

Psycho alert...

I'm the last line of defense for my kids not you

What the hell is your problem - so you come across some bad people - we all do

No excuse for running your mouth like some drug-crazed barbarian at people you don't know and who know very well how to bring up their kids

We've been very lucky with all of our bus-drivers and are grateful to them - they've been fantastic. As far as I can tell from bus-stop conversations, the suburban moms I know have huge respect from them. I have relatives who have been and are bus-drivers

But if any of them recognize you, then I suggest they have your license pulled before you self-combust or go postal

I can only assume that you've had a bad day or missed your meds

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bus driver hoax ()
Date: February 16, 2008 09:44PM

look out for the wild ass bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Psycho alert...
>
> I'm the last line of defense for my kids not you
>
> What the hell is your problem - so you come across
> some bad people - we all do
>
> No excuse for running your mouth like some
> drug-crazed barbarian at people you don't know and
> who know very well how to bring up their kids
>
> We've been very lucky with all of our bus-drivers
> and are grateful to them - they've been fantastic.
> As far as I can tell from bus-stop conversations,
> the suburban moms I know have huge respect from
> them. I have relatives who have been and are
> bus-drivers
>
> But if any of them recognize you, then I suggest
> they have your license pulled before you
> self-combust or go postal
>
> I can only assume that you've had a bad day or
> missed your meds


Don't waste energy on this hoax. Stay focused on FCPS. SLPTA is working hard to paint opponents of RD as crazy. Be serene and be focused.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bus driver ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:01PM

LOL, okay, totally expected responses. I gotta go, I only have computer access when I'm babysitting.

But, you're right, most parents are wonderful, even if they don't HAVE A CLUE what assholes their kids are. When I report their daughters for giving oral sex on the bus, I'm crazy, or don't know what I saw (although the videotape sometimes backs me up).

Hey, I'm glad I don't enforce some rules! I don't care if my kids eat on the bus as long as they don't throw their food around. Check this out:

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17945&SearchTerms=oatmeal

Several school bus drivers are murdered every year by students or parents.
More school bus news from around North America:

http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=9

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: fed the troll ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:06PM

my fault - fed the troll

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:19PM

With the two, new scenarios presented last week, Rachel Carson MS now gets to feed into 5 high schools + TJ. This is by far the most in Fairfax County, and a statistic that deserves much scrutiny - talk about "off the wall stats". This is clearly unacceptable.

Also, Floris ES would now feed 3 high schools, another unacceptable statistic.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FCPEAS ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:23PM

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL, okay, totally expected responses. I gotta
> go, I only have computer access when I'm
> babysitting.
>
> But, you're right, most parents are wonderful,
> even if they don't HAVE A CLUE what assholes their
> kids are. When I report their daughters for
> giving oral sex on the bus, I'm crazy, or don't
> know what I saw (although the videotape sometimes
> backs me up).
>
> Hey, I'm glad I don't enforce some rules! I don't
> care if my kids eat on the bus as long as they
> don't throw their food around. Check this out:
>
> http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPI
> C_ID=17945&SearchTerms=oatmeal
>
> Several school bus drivers are murdered every year
> by students or parents.
> More school bus news from around North America:
>
> http://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum/forum.asp?FORU
> M_ID=9

Some fringe members of SLPTA are becoming very creative in this debate. I do not know how they think this screed helps their cause.

And talking about SL PTA, I have suggested to some friends in SL PTA to never publicly endorse a particular plan. It is not our business who comes to the school. Aldrin, Fox Mill, Dogwood...it is none of our business. Our license ends with presenting the perception of a need for more students.

I have also asked them to be introspective about whether they really think that what they are doing will help the lower performing students at the school. Right now, the advocates for RD in SL PTA are just trying to statistically bury these struggling kids, rather than help them raise their scores. And by cherry picking the ethnicity of the new students, it lets others argue that they are engaged in overt racism.

Finally, we need to do more to bring in the voices of the families of these struggling kids. We need to have these families say what they want...more IB candidates, or more ESOL assets? Do they want the demographics of Aldrin or Floris, or do they want another demographic added to their kid's school?

Rather than post a bogus note like this bus driver drivel, and rather enrage the very people we hope to have join us, why aren't we proposing ideas for raising the scores/performance of the struggling part of our population?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: rat ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:26PM

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With the two, new scenarios presented last week,
> Rachel Carson MS now gets to feed into 5 high
> schools + TJ. This is by far the most in Fairfax
> County, and a statistic that deserves much
> scrutiny - talk about "off the wall stats". This
> is clearly unacceptable.
>
> Also, Floris ES would now feed 3 high schools,
> another unacceptable statistic.

BUT, THE SCHOOL BOARD DOESN'T CARE. No one on the School Board gives a rat's @#@! about Floris. It is probably true about McNair too, except you are Title 1, so at least they act like they care.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Also curious ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:27PM

Forum reader: can you provide your source for this information? If you are correct--that only one IB student in the entire county--got a 7 on the IB HL math exam then that is very telling data. A 7 is the only score MIT will accept. In comparison, I know MIT accepts 4s and 5s on the AP exam. Can you provide a comparison--how many students got a 7 on the HL math exam and how many got a 4 or 5 in the AP math exam. Thank you.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bus driver ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:33PM

look out for the wild ass bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Psycho alert...
>
> I'm the last line of defense for my kids not you
>
> What the hell is your problem - so you come across
> some bad people - we all do
>
> No excuse for running your mouth like some
> drug-crazed barbarian at people you don't know and
> who know very well how to bring up their kids
>
> We've been very lucky with all of our bus-drivers
> and are grateful to them - they've been fantastic.
> As far as I can tell from bus-stop conversations,
> the suburban moms I know have huge respect from
> them. I have relatives who have been and are
> bus-drivers
>
> But if any of them recognize you, then I suggest
> they have your license pulled before you
> self-combust or go postal
>
> I can only assume that you've had a bad day or
> missed your meds

You lack the intelligence to discuss "meds". I just passed my random drug test last month, something you could NEVER do.


You have relatives that are bus drivers? Call one of them now and ask them what a "baker" is. Ask 'em who Linda Farbry is. What's their bus number and pyramid?
What's a "Ranger". C'mon, wise ass I wanna know. Answer those questions and you will have credibility.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 16, 2008 10:36PM

rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUT, THE SCHOOL BOARD DOESN'T CARE. No one on
> the School Board gives a rat's @#@! about Floris.
> It is probably true about McNair too, except you
> are Title 1, so at least they act like they care.

We're not feeling much love from the School Board right now. But in a backhanded way, they're making a pretty compelling argument for a Rachel Carson HS. Maybe our geography is having a subconscious effect on them, no?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:17AM

If the School Board cared about McNair, it wouldn't be failing AYP.

Rachel Carson high school? With all western schools under enrolled 4 years out? It makes no sense to build a new high school but South County made no sense either.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:19AM

Also curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum reader: can you provide your source for
> this information? If you are correct--that only
> one IB student in the entire county--got a 7 on
> the IB HL math exam then that is very telling
> data. A 7 is the only score MIT will accept. In
> comparison, I know MIT accepts 4s and 5s on the AP
> exam. Can you provide a comparison--how many
> students got a 7 on the HL math exam and how many
> got a 4 or 5 in the AP math exam. Thank you.

------
Fair question.

Go to:
http://www.fcps.edu/suptapps/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=707

Click on: Table 2
Of the 36 IB "7's" earned in ALL subjects by FCPS students in 06-07, 21 were in "History of the Americas" and five were in English.

The lowest IB HL "pass" rates ("4" or above) were in Physics (45% pass, only two "6's" and zero "7's" from 120 students) and biology (55% "pass", nine "6's" and zero "7's" out of 143 tested).

I have been unable to find where FCPS posted AP scores using the same format. If someone else can find the AP numbers, please post the source. Perhaps someone will ask FCPS for comparable AP data using the Freedom Of Information Act. We do know there was a sixty percent pass rate of the 1,548 AP AB Calculus exams taken and 83 percent pass rate among the 1,077 AP BC exams that were taken.

In AP Biology, 955 students were tested and seventy percent passed.

In AP Physics, 808 took the exam and two-thirds passed.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 17, 2008 03:38AM

Forum Reader Wrote:

> ... Of the 36 IB "7's" earned in ALL subjects by FCPS
> students in 06-07, ...

In case I was not clear, the numbers in the above post, stated in FCPS "Table 2", only refer to IB HIGH LEVEL exams, not ALL IB exams.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 17, 2008 06:53AM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also curious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum reader: can you provide your source for
> > this information? If you are correct--that
> only
> > one IB student in the entire county--got a 7 on
> > the IB HL math exam then that is very telling
> > data. A 7 is the only score MIT will accept.
> In
> > comparison, I know MIT accepts 4s and 5s on the
> AP
> > exam. Can you provide a comparison--how many
> > students got a 7 on the HL math exam and how
> many
> > got a 4 or 5 in the AP math exam. Thank you.
>
> ------
> Fair question.
>
> Go to:
> http://www.fcps.edu/suptapps/newsreleases/newsrele
> ase.cfm?newsid=707
>
> Click on: Table 2
> Of the 36 IB "7's" earned in ALL subjects by FCPS
> students in 06-07, 21 were in "History of the
> Americas" and five were in English.
>
> The lowest IB HL "pass" rates ("4" or above) were
> in Physics (45% pass, only two "6's" and zero
> "7's" from 120 students) and biology (55% "pass",
> nine "6's" and zero "7's" out of 143 tested).
>
> I have been unable to find where FCPS posted AP
> scores using the same format. If someone else can
> find the AP numbers, please post the source.
> Perhaps someone will ask FCPS for comparable AP
> data using the Freedom Of Information Act. We do
> know there was a sixty percent pass rate of the
> 1,548 AP AB Calculus exams taken and 83 percent
> pass rate among the 1,077 AP BC exams that were
> taken.
>
> In AP Biology, 955 students were tested and
> seventy percent passed.
>
> In AP Physics, 808 took the exam and two-thirds
> passed.


I had tried earlier to find this data and was unable to do so. It may be that the College Board itself is no longer providing the data in that format. They recently released (two days ago) their National Report and it lists how many kids passed with a 3 or higher, but not the percentages of4's and 5's. For the record, nationally those passing percentages have decreased from 60% to 57%. So, only 57% nationally are getting 3's or higher.

Here is the link for the report, in case anyone is interested: http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/ap-report-to-the-nation-2008.pdf

Also, even though the poster said M.I.T accepts certain AP scores, that is one university that I know has a disclaimer stating the scores discussed currently on their webpage are for 2007-2008; students entering in 2008 will find out what college credit they actually will earn in August. Each August it changes slightly, showing a trend towards fewer credits over the past few years.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 17, 2008 06:55AM

Oh, they do actually give national percentages of 4's and 5's. I had glanced earlier and didn't see that because I had only looked at a summary/press report. Now that I have downloaded I skimmed quickly as it was downloading and saw the AP biology broken down. 19% got a 5 on that.

FCPS should be able to do this for us, but they apparently haven't.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 17, 2008 07:23AM

continual reverse busing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Run some guesstimates on schools residences in
> the
> > context of B.1. :
> > http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/edo/filecomp.htm
> >
> > Sometimes specific actions taken to ensure not
> > attending some schools seem to be violations of
> > this law. Bussing kids miles rather than
> using
> > diverse schools seems dicey. Guess it could
> also
> > be a problem with not using South Lakes. Also a
> > problem with Langley.
>
> You'd have a hard time persuading anyone,
> especially the courts, that a county has to keep
> redistricting its residents to even out waves of
> legal and illegal immigration. Even in liberal
> NoVA with its well integrated global population -
> it would be like lighting a blue touch-paper for
> civil war, a lawyers delight - especially after
> FFX submarined the study on the cost of service
> provision to illegals earlier this year. $3M in
> legal provision wouldn't begin to cover it.

Reverse bussing? In FX kids are bussed 10-14 miles extra to Langley to NOT attend Herndon or South Lakes. Now why is that? I know - it's The Band Program!!!

Herndon 's attendance area seems North-South on poverty stats not pockets like most of South Lakes.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 17, 2008 07:53AM

FCPS used to provide more complete information about student scores on AP tests.

Between 1997 and 2003, the percentage of 5/5 AP test scores in FCPS declined from 20% to 16%, and the percentage of 4/5 AP test scores in FCPS declined from 25% to 22%. The percentage of 3/5 AP test scores declined from 29% to 26%. During that same period, the number of AP tests taken in FCPS increased from about 10,400 to about 20,700. The percentage scoring 1/5 or 2/5 increased from about 25% to about 36%.

To put these scores into context, almost every US college gives placement or some other type of credit for a 4/5 or a 5/5 on the standard AP tests in math, science, history, etc. However, colleges are looking more closely at some specialized AP courses and refusing to give any credit for them. Also, certain AP courses that are taught over 2 semesters in FCPS normally are taught in one semester at college, such as AP Calculus AB, AP Statistics and AP Psychology.

Within math/science, the College Board sometimes has two versions (harder and easier) of AP courses. AP Calculus BC covers two semesters of single variable calculus, while AP Calculus AB covers only the first semester, in part because it reviews introductory material often taught in precalc courses. AP Physics C uses calculus, while AP Physics B is the algebra-based version that gets far less credit if any in selective US colleges. AP Computer Science AB gets more credit than AP Computer Science A, which also is taught in some FCPS base high schools.

A so-called passing grade of 3/5 on the AP test is not passing in the minds of many selective colleges, just like a so-called passing grade of 4/7 on IB HL exams. That's why the new FCPS decision to lump together everything from a 3/5 to a 5/5 on the AP tests doesn't tell the public very much.

I suspect the stark contrast between the number of 4/5 and 5/5 scores on AP tests and the number of 6/7 and 7/7 scores on IB HL tests might might have caused FCPS staff to decide not to release this information any more. I encourage other parents to start submitting FOIA requests to FCPS, under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act, for this information.


AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, they do actually give national percentages of
> 4's and 5's. I had glanced earlier and didn't see
> that because I had only looked at a summary/press
> report. Now that I have downloaded I skimmed
> quickly as it was downloading and saw the AP
> biology broken down. 19% got a 5 on that.
>
> FCPS should be able to do this for us, but they
> apparently haven't.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:16AM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I suspect the stark contrast between the number of
> 4/5 and 5/5 scores on AP tests and the number of
> 6/7 and 7/7 scores on IB HL tests might might have
> caused FCPS staff to decide not to release this
> information any more. I encourage other parents
> to start submitting FOIA requests to FCPS, under
> the Virginia Freedom of Information Act, for this
> information.
>
Thanks for all the information. Why do they provide the IB data in the manner they do then? If they are trying to avoid a comparison, as you suggest, I would think it would be fairly easy to avoid the issue of only one student receiving a 7 on the HL IB Math by simply saying how many received a passing score on the exam.

I think the issue of not posting AP exams in a similar manner to how they post IB, is they fear the larger number of AP families would question things if fewer students are receiving 5's than is expected.

It is known that receiving a 7 is very difficult on the IB exams, and so IB parents typically don't question that. IB parents question why a student doesn't receive a diploma, which is based on total points received via exams, extended essay, TOK and CAS requirements, but typically don't question a score of 6 versus a 7 on an individual exam.

Also, IB students receive essentially all of their scores after admission to a university, well the majority anyway depending on when they take their SL exams. AP students may have results after 10th, 11th and 12th so they will know many of their scores, and potential credit possibilities prior to accepting an offer of admission, hence more parents questioning AP results at various points of their kid's HS years.

My point is, I don't think the issue of not posting AP exams in the same manner as IB is due to the reason you suggest. It would be much simpler to only give passing rates of IB exams, and not break those scores down as they do, if your reasoning was the case.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:34AM

AP vs IB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > I suspect the stark contrast between the number
> of
> > 4/5 and 5/5 scores on AP tests and the number
> of
> > 6/7 and 7/7 scores on IB HL tests might might
> have
> > caused FCPS staff to decide not to release this
> > information any more. I encourage other
> parents
> > to start submitting FOIA requests to FCPS,
> under
> > the Virginia Freedom of Information Act, for
> this
> > information.
> >
> Thanks for all the information. Why do they
> provide the IB data in the manner they do then? If
> they are trying to avoid a comparison, as you
> suggest, I would think it would be fairly easy to
> avoid the issue of only one student receiving a 7
> on the HL IB Math by simply saying how many
> received a passing score on the exam.
>
> I think the issue of not posting AP exams in a
> similar manner to how they post IB, is they fear
> the larger number of AP families would question
> things if fewer students are receiving 5's than is
> expected.
>
> It is known that receiving a 7 is very difficult
> on the IB exams, and so IB parents typically don't
> question that. IB parents question why a student
> doesn't receive a diploma, which is based on total
> points received via exams, extended essay, TOK and
> CAS requirements, but typically don't question a
> score of 6 versus a 7 on an individual exam.
>
> Also, IB students receive essentially all of their
> scores after admission to a university, well the
> majority anyway depending on when they take their
> SL exams. AP students may have results after 10th,
> 11th and 12th so they will know many of their
> scores, and potential credit possibilities prior
> to accepting an offer of admission, hence more
> parents questioning AP results at various points
> of their kid's HS years.
>
> My point is, I don't think the issue of not
> posting AP exams in the same manner as IB is due
> to the reason you suggest. It would be much
> simpler to only give passing rates of IB exams,
> and not break those scores down as they do, if
> your reasoning was the case.

Bottom line. Is IB worth the extra cost of about $2000/year/HL diploma candidates? FCPS now has teachers trained by paying IBO. They could teach AP classes. IB zealots could pupil place. Nothing I've read has convinced me FCPS should pay IBO on this scope and ironically that was the sense of FCPS and prior School Boards. Why does Gibson insist on IB at South Lakes? Most likely because he NEVER misses out on any extras in FCPS.

5 passenger new beamer v dodge minivan?

If FCPS is going to spend money on any new programs he always gets a piece of the action.

He even has one school, Dogwood, on modified calendar. It's out-of-sync with everything surrounding it. K Kory is the New Stu of Program Implementation.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: AP vs IB ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:40AM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > He even has one school, Dogwood, on modified
> calendar. It's out-of-sync with everything
> surrounding it. K Kory is the New Stu of Program
> Implementation.

Please tell me the history you are referring to regarding K Kory.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:28AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the School Board cared about McNair, it
> wouldn't be failing AYP.
>
> Rachel Carson high school? With all western
> schools under enrolled 4 years out? It makes no
> sense to build a new high school but South County
> made no sense either.

If the School Board were to remain content with current enrollment ranges for western high schools, then I would agree with you. I should have clarified myself in my original post, that planning for a Rachel Carson HS would make perfect sense if the School Board were to remain determined to achieve high school populations of 2000 +/- students.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Recruitment Poster ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:44AM

If bus driver is some kind of recruiter for SL, I am glad that when I pupil place my child next year, I will be driving her.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:10AM

I just want to share something about redistricting kids to an IB high school...I had a long talk with my sister in law who was a high school teacher and resides in FL. She said if there are just a few IB high schools in Fairfax County and if an IB high school needed more kids then redistricting is not the answer because the IB program is unique and should be made as a magnet program. She said small high schools are great..why need more kids? She said she rather teaches in a small high school. Doesn't SL receive extra funding? What would the extra funding do for SL..can they add more courses via extra funding?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:23AM

Baffled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just want to share something about redistricting
> kids to an IB high school...I had a long talk with
> my sister in law who was a high school teacher and
> resides in FL. She said if there are just a few
> IB high schools in Fairfax County and if an IB
> high school needed more kids then redistricting is
> not the answer because the IB program is unique
> and should be made as a magnet program. She said
> small high schools are great..why need more kids?
> She said she rather teaches in a small high
> school. Doesn't SL receive extra funding? What
> would the extra funding do for SL..can they add
> more courses via extra funding?


This is a known fact. IB program is a Elite only program. But don't tell that to SL PTSA. They already know about it but are hiding the fact. IBO will go crazy if a school of 1500 dishes out 500 IB diplomas. The thing I do not understand is I know what Stu's motive is in this. But what about other SB members? They can't add 2+2. Can't they see how much injustice is being done to all the redestricted kids by forcing them into such Elite program and taking away AP from them?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:34AM

The funniest thing about the bus driver post is how she blathers on about being the last line of defense for the kiddies, and then says she only has internet access when she is babysitting.

News flash, I'm pretty sure they're paying you to be "the last line of defense for their kids" when you babysit, not to argue and make threats against other people's kids on a web forum.

If you really are a bus driver, I hope someone traces your IP and gives you some serious consequences for the things you said last night. Of course, I had hoped to see Tisdadt's wife disciplined, too, and that didn't happen. Seems you don't even have to pretend to tolerate Fairfax County children to have a job where you're paid by their parents' tax dollars to care for them.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Just curious ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:36AM

I asked the question about how many students received 7s on the IB HL math exam and how many students received 4s and 5s on the AP math exam because MIT (just an example of a top math engineering school) gives credit only for 7s on the HL math exam and 4s and 5s for the AP exam.

In a different forum someone pointed out that MIT currently accepts credits from numerous programs, including AP, IB, French B...and other programs. I wondered how that translated into the real world in Fairfax County.

If only one student got a 7 on the IB math exam and XX student(s) received a 4 or 5 in the math AP exam, what does tell us? Does it tell us that IB PREPARATION when compared to AP (for college math programs) may not be as good for the serious math student?

I know I'm asking for an apples to oranges comparison--there are more than twice the number of AP schools than IB in FC, and even then only a small number of kids even take the IB HL math course. But only one score of 7 on IB math HL exam, in the entire county, seems like an awfully small number.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Sad ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:43AM

I know this has been said over and over on earlier posts, I think every thing has been said here at some point. can someone explain why a rigorous progam like IB is found so often in struggling schools?

Do they put it in the school when it is struggling to help it? Or is it the IB that in part causes the struggle?

In the case of South Lakes was it doing better as an AP school? If only 34 students got IB diplomas last year why do the SL PTA people want to keep it? One would assume that many of the affluent students currently attending SLHS are not getting IB diplomas. Certainly the vast majority of SLHS students are not getting IB diplomas. So why fight so hard for a program that is driving kids away from the school?

Has there ever been another boundary change where students from AP schools were moved to IB school? I think one of the SBMs asked that at the last WS.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:47AM

Berdhuis Wrote:
> I should
> have clarified myself in my original post, that
> planning for a Rachel Carson HS would make perfect
> sense if the School Board were to remain
> determined to achieve high school populations of
> 2000 +/- students.

-------------------
This is part of why I so strongly support a two-year moratorium on this resdistricting, to enable:
1) South Lakes and ALL potentially affected communities to decide between IB and AP,
2) Bruce Butler and SLHS time to prove the positive results of the recent positive changes,
3) FCPS to decide on Coppermine boundaries first,
4) Demographers a chance to catch-up on the current population changes,
5) This newly-elected new School Board to decide on its priorities (eliminate split feeders? 2,000 pupil high schools? Align middle and high school boundaries and create unified pyramids?), and then,
6) ALL the stakeholders the opportunity to decide how to realign the middle and high school boundaries.

Example: If pyramids are to be unified and high schools are to hold 1700-2300 students (that's ALL students, no more discussion of good or bad!) then Westfield would be downsized to a 2050 seat high school and a 1025 seat middle school. Roughly a third of the current Westfield High School would be redistricted, probably mostly north into the to-be-constructed Carson-area high school. But think this through: With 1025 middle schoolers moving into the newly-reconfigured Westfield Secondary School, then Carson would no longer be needed as a middle school. Should this building be reconfigured as a new elementary school about the size of Silverbrook or Fort Belvoir ES, and NOT even build Coppermine ES? Start building a 2,000 seat high school instead?

I am NOT advocating this particular potential configuration. I am only pointing out ALL the pending West County boundary proposals should be put on hold until the underlying policies are discussed and agreed upon.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:52AM

Sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this has been said over and over on earlier
> posts, I think every thing has been said here at
> some point. can someone explain why a rigorous
> progam like IB is found so often in struggling
> schools?
>
> Do they put it in the school when it is struggling
> to help it? Or is it the IB that in part causes
> the struggle?
>
> In the case of South Lakes was it doing better as
> an AP school? If only 34 students got IB diplomas
> last year why do the SL PTA people want to keep
> it? One would assume that many of the affluent
> students currently attending SLHS are not getting
> IB diplomas. Certainly the vast majority of SLHS
> students are not getting IB diplomas. So why
> fight so hard for a program that is driving kids
> away from the school?
>
> Has there ever been another boundary change where
> students from AP schools were moved to IB school?
> I think one of the SBMs asked that at the last WS.


Couple of possible explanations for the fight to keep IB

1) Increased funding

2) They have put in so much effort in implementing it they don't want to let it go.

What they don't get is, they are driving away the middle section of student population (not brilliant and still interested in studies) to other schools that have AP program. I personally do not think getting rid of IB is a smart think at SL. This is the only IB school in our area. But making it some sort of magnet school with voluntary enrollment and bus service provided may be the answer.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 11:21AM

Sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this has been said over and over on earlier
> posts, I think every thing has been said here at
> some point. can someone explain why a rigorous
> progam like IB is found so often in struggling
> schools?
>
> Do they put it in the school when it is struggling
> to help it? Or is it the IB that in part causes
> the struggle?
>
> In the case of South Lakes was it doing better as
> an AP school? If only 34 students got IB diplomas
> last year why do the SL PTA people want to keep
> it? One would assume that many of the affluent
> students currently attending SLHS are not getting
> IB diplomas. Certainly the vast majority of SLHS
> students are not getting IB diplomas. So why
> fight so hard for a program that is driving kids
> away from the school?
>
> Has there ever been another boundary change where
> students from AP schools were moved to IB school?
> I think one of the SBMs asked that at the last WS.


I think there is growing awareness of this issue with SL parents and there are many supporters of this viewpoint within SL. While many of us see the benefit of IB in the writing aspect, many are also beginning to wonder about the workload issues.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 17, 2008 11:40AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I know this has been said over and over on
> earlier
> > posts, I think every thing has been said here
> at
> > some point. can someone explain why a rigorous
> > progam like IB is found so often in struggling
> > schools?
> >
> > Do they put it in the school when it is
> struggling
> > to help it? Or is it the IB that in part
> causes
> > the struggle?
> >
> > In the case of South Lakes was it doing better
> as
> > an AP school? If only 34 students got IB
> diplomas
> > last year why do the SL PTA people want to keep
> > it? One would assume that many of the affluent
> > students currently attending SLHS are not
> getting
> > IB diplomas. Certainly the vast majority of
> SLHS
> > students are not getting IB diplomas. So why
> > fight so hard for a program that is driving
> kids
> > away from the school?
> >
> > Has there ever been another boundary change
> where
> > students from AP schools were moved to IB
> school?
> > I think one of the SBMs asked that at the last
> WS.
>
>
> I think there is growing awareness of this issue
> with SL parents and there are many supporters of
> this viewpoint within SL. While many of us see
> the benefit of IB in the writing aspect, many are
> also beginning to wonder about the workload
> issues.


SLPP

Since we are having a polite discussion, a caucasian friend of mine was told by SL IB counseler that her son will not be a good fit for IB program because her son was in a travel baseball team. Do you think it is fair for this student to give up IB because he wants to do a extra curicular activity of his choice? Agreed he can still do some IB courses but he can kiss good bye to have any chance of having college credits. With AP, he can at least do a couple of AP courses and hope to do well in them. This is where flexibility in IB program comes up.

Just think if you are on the other side of the issue. How will you feel to be a parent of someone in Flors or Fox Mill?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 17, 2008 11:43AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... I personally
> do not think getting rid of IB is a smart think at
> SL. This is the only IB school in our area. But
> making it some sort of magnet school with
> voluntary enrollment and bus service provided may
> be the answer.

Look at the kids who historically become diploma candidates. I bet many were at GT centers. For a lot of people Marshall became the IB school of choice- gets the ex-GTC kids from Longfellow and Kilmer. SL's gets some Herndon from Hughes GTC but the Carson GTC kids have overwhelmingly not been placing into IB. They were not kidding when they said they want AP.

South Lakes has had voluntary enrollment but not bus service unless they got an exception to ride.

Is IB philosophical with Stu or if anybody gets extra so will my school?

Stu and K both got even more money for the magnets now through CETA plus a bump in staffing ratios for art-music-pe. 400 thousand for each plus more. Plus there is focus school money flowin into Lake Anne so it gets a drama teacher plus 2 other extras. They are the only ones with the middle school program enhancement extra funding. Kory's schools were ready to move out of modified calendar- Gibson got that at Dogwood [only one in his domain].

Modified calendar is a waste if kids can go to a remedial summer class in August for math-reading.

South Lakes got an addition-2 story art wing but inexplicably the capcity went down. Kory got an addition on the new Glasgow for hundreds with no one to put in it. Gibson was quite concerned about this.

I can't find any list on FCPS budget documents with everything going into specific schools.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 17, 2008 11:54AM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sad Wrote:...
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I know this has been said over and over on
> > earlier
> > > posts, I think every thing has been said here
> > at
> > > some point. can someone explain why a
> rigorous
> > > progam like IB is found so often in
> struggling
> > > schools?

IB went in those schools because they did not have good academic leadership [parenst depended on the schools not themselves as the case with Oakton, Langley, Madison all of which might have worse admins than South Lakes or Riddle]. IB changed the mindset of the administrators and got the teachers trained at a high cost. That is why J Matthews called it Supertest - the program and the test forced the schools to be schools not holding pens.

The struggle came before IB and the schools are better somewhat better now - IB serves as a school within a school just like a big fat GT center at a middle school. Herndon has the same effect with it's balanced successful community AP program - the balance is AP track v other. By 11th and 12th my guess is so many drop out there's a big decrease in "other."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:28PM

Just Curious,

IB HL Math teachers would have to cover a lot more material to start producing more students who score 7/7 or 6/7 on the IB HL Math test. One FCPS employee told me that HL Math could be a more advanced course, if all the HL Math students walked in the door knowing a lot more math. Right now, though, HL Math teachers in FCPS have students who need to spend a fair amount of time learning the algebra 2/precalc topics in the HL Math curriculum. That potentially leaves the FCPS HL Math teachers with less time for the required units in statistics and intro calculus. And perhaps with almost no time for any of the four optional topics in the HL Math syllabus.

The IB program offers a more advanced math course, IB SL Further Math, which requires teachers to cover all four of the optional topics in the HL Math curriculum. FCPS does not offer this course. The IB magnet in Montgomery County, Richard Montgomery HS, offers AP and post-AP math courses instead of HL Math and IB Further Math. And, George Mason HS in the City of Falls Church requires all of its IB HL Math students to also take AP Calculus BC. One wonders why these two stellar IB programs chose to supplement their IB programs with AP math classes.

Given the relatively low scores of almost all FCPS students on the HL Math test, I wonder if some FCPS HL Math teachers spend very little time on calculus. Any comments from an HL Math student?


Just curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked the question about how many students
> received 7s on the IB HL math exam and how many
> students received 4s and 5s on the AP math exam
> because MIT (just an example of a top math
> engineering school) gives credit only for 7s on
> the HL math exam and 4s and 5s for the AP exam.
>
> In a different forum someone pointed out that MIT
> currently accepts credits from numerous programs,
> including AP, IB, French B...and other programs.
> I wondered how that translated into the real world
> in Fairfax County.
>
> If only one student got a 7 on the IB math exam
> and XX student(s) received a 4 or 5 in the math AP
> exam, what does tell us? Does it tell us that IB
> PREPARATION when compared to AP (for college math
> programs) may not be as good for the serious math
> student?
>
> I know I'm asking for an apples to oranges
> comparison--there are more than twice the number
> of AP schools than IB in FC, and even then only a
> small number of kids even take the IB HL math
> course. But only one score of 7 on IB math HL
> exam, in the entire county, seems like an awfully
> small number.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:30PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Berdhuis Wrote:
> > I should
> > have clarified myself in my original post, that
> > planning for a Rachel Carson HS would make
> perfect
> > sense if the School Board were to remain
> > determined to achieve high school populations
> of
> > 2000 +/- students.
>
> -------------------
> This is part of why I so strongly support a
> two-year moratorium on this resdistricting, to
> enable:
> 1) South Lakes and ALL potentially affected
> communities to decide between IB and AP,
> 2) Bruce Butler and SLHS time to prove the
> positive results of the recent positive changes,
> 3) FCPS to decide on Coppermine boundaries first,
> 4) Demographers a chance to catch-up on the
> current population changes,
> 5) This newly-elected new School Board to decide
> on its priorities (eliminate split feeders? 2,000
> pupil high schools? Align middle and high school
> boundaries and create unified pyramids?), and
> then,
> 6) ALL the stakeholders the opportunity to decide
> how to realign the middle and high school
> boundaries.
>
> Example: If pyramids are to be unified and high
> schools are to hold 1700-2300 students (that's ALL
> students, no more discussion of good or bad!) then
> Westfield would be downsized to a 2050 seat high
> school and a 1025 seat middle school. Roughly a
> third of the current Westfield High School would
> be redistricted, probably mostly north into the
> to-be-constructed Carson-area high school. But
> think this through: With 1025 middle schoolers
> moving into the newly-reconfigured Westfield
> Secondary School, then Carson would no longer be
> needed as a middle school. Should this building be
> reconfigured as a new elementary school about the
> size of Silverbrook or Fort Belvoir ES, and NOT
> even build Coppermine ES? Start building a 2,000
> seat high school instead?
>
> I am NOT advocating this particular potential
> configuration. I am only pointing out ALL the
> pending West County boundary proposals should be
> put on hold until the underlying policies are
> discussed and agreed upon.

Forum Reader,

I think you are going in the right direction with this. What you mention here are pertinent, preventative measures which would stop a fiasco like the current one from either continuing or repeating itself later. They also would resolve these issues for the LONG TERM, unburden the School Board and the rest of us from panic mode, and allow us to dwell on more education issues, rather than demographics.

By the way, I see your potential configuration as being quite plausible and efficacious.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:31PM

Not true about Diploma candidates being historically from GT centers. I have five former diploma candidates in my extended family (now graduated from SL and enrolled at UVa) and only one of the five were in GT centers, as was the case with many of their diploma peers. This forum has perpetuated a myth that the diploma is only for geniuses, as well as the myth that only Diploma candidates get credit for IB classes. Both are simply not true. If IB had been in a school like Langley, students would have flocked there for the program. Compare FRM stats at Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics, stupid.

Don't you all think that everything that needs to be said about this subject has been said? Younger families in the SL pyramid have no preference for IB or AP. Once redistricting happens, those families will drive the curriculum. Don't listen to the negative one on this forum who says SL will never change (we know who that poster is) because it is simply not true.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:46PM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is IB philosophical with Stu or if anybody gets
> extra so will my school?

Stuy has been in office for 12 years and IB has been at SL for 7 years and yet he has not been able to explain why he thinks its a good idea for Reston. Is this arrogance or incompetent political leadership?

> Modified calendar is a waste if kids can go to a
> remedial summer class in August for math-reading.

Wow, why do you say the modified calendar is a waste? I thought year 'round school was the great conservative idea.

> South Lakes got an addition-2 story art wing but
> inexplicably the capcity went down.

It wasn't an addition. Existing space was renovated to create the art wing. Classes had previously been seperated by movable walls. Putting in masonry walls caused the capacity to be reduced by 50 students.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 17, 2008 12:47PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not true about Diploma candidates being
> historically from GT centers. I have five former
> diploma candidates in my extended family (now
> graduated from SL and enrolled at UVa) and only
> one of the five were in GT centers, as was the
> case with many of their diploma peers. This forum
> has perpetuated a myth that the diploma is only
> for geniuses, as well as the myth that only
> Diploma candidates get credit for IB classes.
> Both are simply not true. If IB had been in a
> school like Langley, students would have flocked
> there for the program. Compare FRM stats at
> Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics,
> stupid.
>
> Don't you all think that everything that needs to
> be said about this subject has been said? Younger
> families in the SL pyramid have no preference for
> IB or AP. Once redistricting happens, those
> families will drive the curriculum. Don't listen
> to the negative one on this forum who says SL will
> never change (we know who that poster is) because
> it is simply not true.


I know IB/AP has been discussed many times but one more time may not hurt to go through this excellent article.

****************************************************************************
Woodson IB/AP Assessment and lessons learned
In 1999, due to divisions between Woodson parents, Woodson High School, a relatively new IB school, asked FCPS if they could keep both the IB Program and the Full AP Program intact in their school. FCPS Central Staff told them “no”, stating, “Because of scheduling and staffing issues, a school must choose to be either an IB Diploma or an AP school. AP schools will not offer IB courses and IB Diploma schools will only offer a few AP courses that do not duplicate IB offerings.”

Parents were sharply divided between IB and AP and established 25 criteria that their Advanced Program should meet. After much deliberation and research on each one, they concluded that their school would be best served by being an AP school. Note that the AP Program met every one of their criteria – the same advanced program criteria that most Floris, Madison, and Fox Mill parents desire and have selected for their children.

The key Criteria IB Failed or Fell Short In are:

Availability to a majority of students
Does no harm
Is portable
Encourages everyone to strive and achieve
Offers a broad array of elective choices
Doesn’t forget “late bloomers”
Peacefully coexists with the other programs in the building
Allows students not equally strong in all subject areas to succeed
Doesn’t require advanced program be subsidized at the expense of regular classes
Allows access to college credit
Helps students in the college admission process
Provides access to potential college and placement


Following is a closer Look at Some of The Criteria.

Does no harm – since the “average” student takes at least one AP course, AP students do not develop a small, elite, cadre around whom the rest of the master schedule must be considered. Also, IB Diploma students have (mentors) assigned to them – there is an inherent unfairness when only Diploma Candidates have this service provided to them.

Is portable – The AP Program is more common. (only 3% of our nation’s High Schools are IB schools as of 2007). If families move, it is more likely they will find an AP Program for their student to complete his/her studies.

Encourages everyone to strive and achieve – AP’s one-year courses are more flexible than two-year HL IB courses and are readily available at 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. Some classes, including AP Psychology, AP Art History, AP Government., and AP US History can be taken by any student with no prerequisites. The AP Program has different goal levels, instead of one, rarely achieved Diploma. Strong students may take seven or more AP classes (as opposed to the maximum of 4 HL classes in the IB Diploma Program)

Doesn’t forget anyone (late bloomers) – The AP program better serves late bloomers, that is, those students who become more academically inclined late in High School. Students need not commit until the beginning of senior year to take a college level AP course, and even during their senior year, students in regular classes can still sign up for and take AP exams, thereby earning recognition (even being AP Scholars). Students can take 2 or 3 AP courses per year, thus distributing their hardest classes instead of concentrating them all in the senior year. This allows participation in other courses as well as in extra curricular pursuits.

AP peacefully co-exists with existing courses – Students move easily into AP courses without needing preparatory classes. There are 32 AP courses available and High Schools can select the ones that best meet their needs. The AP program allows more choices and more electives than the IB Diploma Program.

Allows students not equally strong in all subject areas to succeed – AP better serves students who are not equally strong in all areas because they can take AP classes in their areas of strength and/or interest.

The College View - Competitive schools in Virginia and many other universities recognize the IB Diploma and frequently grant sophomore standing to IB Diploma students. However, only a very small proportion of students in an IB school actually earn the IB Diploma.

While High Level IB courses are stellar educational experiences, respected by many colleges, even IB Diploma Candidates rarely take more than 3 of them. The key question becomes which is better for non-Diploma students, IB HL courses or AP courses? For the same college credit recognition, HL courses last 2 years and AP courses last one. AP courses can be taken any time (10th – 12th grade), but all HL classes must be completed in senior year. AP courses are graded as they are taken, sometimes as early as sophomore year. Students thus can prove their ability to complete college-level work prior to submitting college applications.

It is important to note that IB Standard Level courses (SL), which are much more accessible to average high school students, receive little or no recognition from most colleges. (IBO Implementation Manual states “all schools must be unequivocally committed to teaching the full DP and must recognize that certificate courses have secondary importance…it must be unquestionably shown that any certificate courses they may be intending to offer are subordinate to their DP, and will be specifically for students who are not intellectually or academically able to undertake the full diploma.”)

Woodson parents recommended pairing IB and AP schools; clusters of high schools with one IB school in each cluster. They noted that admission to the IB school should be voluntary and added “that unless transportation is provided, there is an inherent inequity of access.”

****************************************************************************

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 01:21PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not true about Diploma candidates being
> historically from GT centers. I have five former
> diploma candidates in my extended family (now
> graduated from SL and enrolled at UVa) and only
> one of the five were in GT centers, as was the
> case with many of their diploma peers. This forum
> has perpetuated a myth that the diploma is only
> for geniuses, as well as the myth that only
> Diploma candidates get credit for IB classes.
> Both are simply not true. If IB had been in a
> school like Langley, students would have flocked
> there for the program. Compare FRM stats at
> Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics,
> stupid.
>
> Don't you all think that everything that needs to
> be said about this subject has been said? Younger
> families in the SL pyramid have no preference for
> IB or AP. Once redistricting happens, those
> families will drive the curriculum. Don't listen
> to the negative one on this forum who says SL will
> never change (we know who that poster is) because
> it is simply not true.


Totally agree. I think there is plenty interest in AP at SL, even among those already at the high school.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2008 01:22PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 17, 2008 01:31PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This forum has perpetuated a myth that the diploma is only
> for geniuses,

No one has written that. Many have written that its for an elite few who are motivated to do a huge amount of book work. That assertion is supported by the number of IB diplomas issued.

> Only Diploma candidates get credit for IB classes.

While some have written this, it is not true. However, it is true that colleges mostly give advanced placement credit only for the 2 year HL classes.

It is also true that the IB HL test results don't get reported until after many colleges have registered their freshman for their classes, thus defeating one of the supposed benefits of IB HL courses.

It is also true that AP Calc appears to be more rigorous than IB Math HL.

> If IB had been in a school like Langley, students would have flocked
> there for the program.

So why haven't the Langley parents clamored for it? Are they just stupid, too?

They managed the political process effectively enough to get an addition instead of being part of this redistricting. Thus, demontrating that, if they had wanted IB, they would have gotten it. What's far more telling is that after 7 years, no other FCPS HS has demanded IB.

> Compare FRM stats at Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics,
> stupid.

Has it once occurred to you that your transparent contempt for the parents and children of your fellow Restonians not only puts you in a bad light but re-enforces the negative attitude of the Fox Mill and Floris parents toward SL.

It's not the demographics, it's the staff as every comparison with Stuart has demonstrated.

> Younger families in the SL pyramid have no preference for IB or AP.

So you have generously deigned to make the choice for them?

It's exactly because of their unfamiliarity with IB v. AP that I have advocated throughout my participation on this forum that a explanatory briefing at Langston and the elementary schools in the SL pyramid be undertaken with an open and honest conversation of the strengths and weakenesses of IB and AP. Then a referendum be had and the administration follow that choice.

If the process is open and honest (as contrasted with an IB sales job), I would live with the outcome, even if they chose to stay with IB. Are you ready to say the same thing?

> Once redistricting happens, those families will drive the curriculum.

And you believe this because the Hughes and elementary school parents were so heavily involved in the Area Superintendent's imposing IB on Reston in 1999, right?

> Don't listen to the negative one on this forum who says SL will never change

You meant "negative ones" right.

(we know who that poster is)

And we know who you are.

It's lazy to try persuade by demonizing and isolating people you disagree with. UVA should have taught you to argue better than this.

Maybe you could induce your friends on the South Lakes Boundary Study Group to publicly commit to the referendum process described above and call on Stuy to do the same. Then maybe you and they would have some credibility on this issue.

Unless that happens, it just looks like a bunch of parents seeking a disproportionate share of SL's educational resources for their kids to the detriment of the rest of Reston's kids.

Nothing special, new or different about that.

Still want to "Totally agree", SLPP?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2008 01:51PM by Thomas More.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 17, 2008 02:17PM

SLVerity Wrote:
> ... I have five former diploma candidates in my extended family ...
>
... If IB had been in a
> school like Langley, students would have flocked
> there for the program. Compare FRM stats at
> Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics,
> stupid.
>
> ... Younger families in the SL pyramid have no preference for
> IB or AP. ....

SLV,

Nice to see you again. (That was not satire. There have been a few trolls popping in and out, some who seem to change their name with each post, and some who post childish insults and/or vulgarities.)

Re: your above three remarks:
1) A "former candidate" seems like someone who has dropped out of the race, but I don't think you meant that. Instead of "former diploma candidates" can you refer to these young adults as "former IB students" or "IB Diploma Graduates," whichever applies?

2) The rankings I have seen have both Langley and Woodson among the top five FCPS high schools. As all our fellow forum readers know by now, Woodson received IB the same time as South Lakes. The Woodson staff, students, and parents conducted an extensive study, the sort that the pro-IB people seem to advocate when they say "Once you understand IB you will love it!" As we all know, Woodson learned about and then rejected IB.

Robinson is arguably the most successful IB school in FCPS - it is certainly the biggest. Of the hundred students pupil placed into Robinson, 69 were stated to be there for the for IB curriculum. (16 from Centreville, 3 from Chantilly, 26 from Fairfax, 1 from Falls Church, 4 from Lake Braddock, 1 from Oakton, 4 from South County, 3 from Westfield, and 11 from Woodson). However, 18 from Robinson moved to Lake Braddock, 2 to Woodson, and 1 to Centreville for the AP curriculum so Robinson had a net gain of 48, or 12 students per year - a rather small "flock" of students relocating to Robinson for IB.

My point is, Woodson and Robinson seem to disprove your argument that "If IB had been in a school like Langley, students would have flocked there for the program."

3) Perhaps in the past it was correct to say "Younger families in the SL pyramid have no preference for IB or AP." Because of all this discussion, I suspect far more younger families are developing preferences.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: TJ Numbers ()
Date: February 17, 2008 02:56PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also curious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum reader: can you provide your source for
> > this information? If you are correct--that
> only
> > one IB student in the entire county--got a 7 on
> > the IB HL math exam then that is very telling
> > data. A 7 is the only score MIT will accept.
> In
> > comparison, I know MIT accepts 4s and 5s on the
> AP
> > exam. Can you provide a comparison--how many
> > students got a 7 on the HL math exam and how
> many
> > got a 4 or 5 in the AP math exam. Thank you.
>
> ------
> Fair question.
>
> Go to:
> http://www.fcps.edu/suptapps/newsreleases/newsrele
> ase.cfm?newsid=707
>
> Click on: Table 2
> Of the 36 IB "7's" earned in ALL subjects by FCPS
> students in 06-07, 21 were in "History of the
> Americas" and five were in English.
>
> The lowest IB HL "pass" rates ("4" or above) were
> in Physics (45% pass, only two "6's" and zero
> "7's" from 120 students) and biology (55% "pass",
> nine "6's" and zero "7's" out of 143 tested).
>
> I have been unable to find where FCPS posted AP
> scores using the same format. If someone else can
> find the AP numbers, please post the source.
> Perhaps someone will ask FCPS for comparable AP
> data using the Freedom Of Information Act. We do
> know there was a sixty percent pass rate of the
> 1,548 AP AB Calculus exams taken and 83 percent
> pass rate among the 1,077 AP BC exams that were
> taken.
>
> In AP Biology, 955 students were tested and
> seventy percent passed.
>
> In AP Physics, 808 took the exam and two-thirds
> passed.

Also post how many of those AP scores, and how many of the 5's were from TJ compared with the rest. Then you have some better info. TJ skims the best off the top.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Teacher Certification ()
Date: February 17, 2008 03:01PM

Oakton Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More asks: "Did anyone's kid sign up for
> Human Geography?"
>
> I'm personally interested in stuff like that, as
> my historical atlases can attent to, but it seems
> like a low priority for most kids, either for high
> school or college. Are there college programs
> with a geography requirement?

Which AP (or IB) non-core courses offered at ANY school are usually determined by a COMBINATION of how many kids want a particular course and what TEACHERS are certified to teach it. The weight lies in the latter -- no teacher, no course. (If you have a teacher willing and able to teach it, the school puts that info out and sees what interest there is in it, sometimes drumming up interest because kids who might not have considered the topic, now do.) Check it out with the school instructional office if you don't believe me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 17, 2008 04:34PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not true about Diploma candidates being
> historically from GT centers. I have five former
> diploma candidates in my extended family (now
> graduated from SL and enrolled at UVa) and only
> one of the five were in GT centers, as was the
> case with many of their diploma peers. This forum
> has perpetuated a myth that the diploma is only
> for geniuses, as well as the myth that only
> Diploma candidates get credit for IB classes.
> Both are simply not true. If IB had been in a
> school like Langley, students would have flocked
> there for the program. Compare FRM stats at
> Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics,
> stupid.
>
> Don't you all think that everything that needs to
> be said about this subject has been said? Younger
> families in the SL pyramid have no preference for
> IB or AP. Once redistricting happens, those
> families will drive the curriculum. Don't listen
> to the negative one on this forum who says SL will
> never change (we know who that poster is) because
> it is simply not true.

SLverity,
Per your quote, "It's the demographics, stupid"

Let me ask you a couple of questions and please answer with a yes or no.

Do you think it is morally ethical and justifiable to redistrict families who have put down roots with communities and schools of their choice with a high school being AP or IB?

Do you think it is LOGICAL to redistrict and uproot families from AP based high schools to an IB high school?

Thank you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 07:01PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This forum has perpetuated a myth that the
> diploma is only
> > for geniuses,
>
> No one has written that. Many have written that
> its for an elite few who are motivated to do a
> huge amount of book work. That assertion is
> supported by the number of IB diplomas issued.
>
> > Only Diploma candidates get credit for IB
> classes.
>
> While some have written this, it is not true.
> However, it is true that colleges mostly give
> advanced placement credit only for the 2 year HL
> classes.
>
> It is also true that the IB HL test results don't
> get reported until after many colleges have
> registered their freshman for their classes, thus
> defeating one of the supposed benefits of IB HL
> courses.
>
> It is also true that AP Calc appears to be more
> rigorous than IB Math HL.
>
> > If IB had been in a school like Langley,
> students would have flocked
> > there for the program.
>
> So why haven't the Langley parents clamored for
> it? Are they just stupid, too?
>
> They managed the political process effectively
> enough to get an addition instead of being part of
> this redistricting. Thus, demontrating that, if
> they had wanted IB, they would have gotten it.
> What's far more telling is that after 7 years, no
> other FCPS HS has demanded IB.
>
> > Compare FRM stats at Marshall with those at SL.
> It's the demographics,
> > stupid.
>
> Has it once occurred to you that your transparent
> contempt for the parents and children of your
> fellow Restonians not only puts you in a bad light
> but re-enforces the negative attitude of the Fox
> Mill and Floris parents toward SL.
>
> It's not the demographics, it's the staff as every
> comparison with Stuart has demonstrated.
>
> > Younger families in the SL pyramid have no
> preference for IB or AP.
>
> So you have generously deigned to make the choice
> for them?
>
> It's exactly because of their unfamiliarity with
> IB v. AP that I have advocated throughout my
> participation on this forum that a explanatory
> briefing at Langston and the elementary schools in
> the SL pyramid be undertaken with an open and
> honest conversation of the strengths and
> weakenesses of IB and AP. Then a referendum be had
> and the administration follow that choice.
>
> If the process is open and honest (as contrasted
> with an IB sales job), I would live with the
> outcome, even if they chose to stay with IB. Are
> you ready to say the same thing?
>
> > Once redistricting happens, those families will
> drive the curriculum.
>
> And you believe this because the Hughes and
> elementary school parents were so heavily involved
> in the Area Superintendent's imposing IB on Reston
> in 1999, right?
>
> > Don't listen to the negative one on this forum
> who says SL will never change
>
> You meant "negative ones" right.
>
> (we know who that poster is)
>
> And we know who you are.
>
> It's lazy to try persuade by demonizing and
> isolating people you disagree with. UVA should
> have taught you to argue better than this.
>
> Maybe you could induce your friends on the South
> Lakes Boundary Study Group to publicly commit to
> the referendum process described above and call on
> Stuy to do the same. Then maybe you and they would
> have some credibility on this issue.
>
> Unless that happens, it just looks like a bunch of
> parents seeking a disproportionate share of SL's
> educational resources for their kids to the
> detriment of the rest of Reston's kids.
>
> Nothing special, new or different about that.
>
> Still want to "Totally agree", SLPP?


Yes, I do. I think you chose to deliberatly misinterpret SLV's words and intentions. Your habit of picking apart what someone says, spinning it, turning it over a few times, adding erroneous interpretations of what they are saying and intending to say, then saying they are horrible, mean, insulting people, really turns me off, and I skip over most of your posts with the telltale quoting of someone's post with your misinterpretations and provocations in between. Really annoying Thomas.

Not of us here are horrible, mean people, well maybe except for Neen, who deliberately manipulates and goads people. SLV does not do this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: February 17, 2008 07:12PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If IB had been in a
> school like Langley, students would have flocked
> there for the program. Compare FRM stats at
> Marshall with those at SL. It's the demographics,
> stupid.

SLVerity, I observe that you care more about the FRM percentages than we do. Are you trying to correlate higher FRM with lower achievement or public perception? Hasn't it been pointed out that Stuart HS, with similar "demographics" as SL, is enjoying relative statistical success compared to SL? What does this then leave us with, a public perception issue?

If I'm missing your point, please explain. Thanks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 17, 2008 07:21PM

Dear TJ Numbers,

TJ students are a minority of the students taking any of the AP math or science tests mentioned by Forum Reader. About 350 TJ students/year who take AP Calculus BC, out of 1,077 FCPS students. About 100 TJ students take AP Calculus AB, which means TJ students are a very small percentage of the 1,548 FCPS students taking Calc AB. I believe TJ has six AP Biology sections this year, so about 150 of the 955 AP Biology tests were taken by TJ students. AP Physics C usually has five or six sections, so TJ students comprise about 125 to 150 of the 808 FCPS students.

FCPS does not publish the number of FCPS students scoring 5/5 on a particular AP test countywide, let alone at any single FCPS high school. Thus, it is impossible to accurately estimate the percentage of 5/5 scores on any AP test attributable to TJ students. Your theory about most 5/5 scores being attributable to TJ kids may or may not be correct, but we'll never know unless somebody files a Freedom of Information Act request.

TJ Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I have been unable to find where FCPS posted AP
> > scores using the same format. If someone else
> can
> > find the AP numbers, please post the source.
> > Perhaps someone will ask FCPS for comparable AP
> > data using the Freedom Of Information Act. We
> do
> > know there was a sixty percent pass rate of the
> > 1,548 AP AB Calculus exams taken and 83 percent
> > pass rate among the 1,077 AP BC exams that were
> > taken.
> >
> > In AP Biology, 955 students were tested and
> > seventy percent passed.
> >
> > In AP Physics, 808 took the exam and two-thirds
> > passed.
>
> Also post how many of those AP scores, and how
> many of the 5's were from TJ compared with the
> rest. Then you have some better info. TJ skims the
> best off the top.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: leave_us_alone ()
Date: February 17, 2008 07:53PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This forum has perpetuated a myth that the
> > diploma is only
> > > for geniuses,
> >
> > No one has written that. Many have written
> that
> > its for an elite few who are motivated to do a
> > huge amount of book work. That assertion is
> > supported by the number of IB diplomas issued.
> >
> > > Only Diploma candidates get credit for IB
> > classes.
> >
> > While some have written this, it is not true.
> > However, it is true that colleges mostly give
> > advanced placement credit only for the 2 year
> HL
> > classes.
> >
> > It is also true that the IB HL test results
> don't
> > get reported until after many colleges have
> > registered their freshman for their classes,
> thus
> > defeating one of the supposed benefits of IB HL
> > courses.
> >
> > It is also true that AP Calc appears to be more
> > rigorous than IB Math HL.
> >
> > > If IB had been in a school like Langley,
> > students would have flocked
> > > there for the program.
> >
> > So why haven't the Langley parents clamored for
> > it? Are they just stupid, too?
> >
> > They managed the political process effectively
> > enough to get an addition instead of being part
> of
> > this redistricting. Thus, demontrating that, if
> > they had wanted IB, they would have gotten it.
> > What's far more telling is that after 7 years,
> no
> > other FCPS HS has demanded IB.
> >
> > > Compare FRM stats at Marshall with those at
> SL.
> > It's the demographics,
> > > stupid.
> >
> > Has it once occurred to you that your
> transparent
> > contempt for the parents and children of your
> > fellow Restonians not only puts you in a bad
> light
> > but re-enforces the negative attitude of the
> Fox
> > Mill and Floris parents toward SL.
> >
> > It's not the demographics, it's the staff as
> every
> > comparison with Stuart has demonstrated.
> >
> > > Younger families in the SL pyramid have no
> > preference for IB or AP.
> >
> > So you have generously deigned to make the
> choice
> > for them?
> >
> > It's exactly because of their unfamiliarity
> with
> > IB v. AP that I have advocated throughout my
> > participation on this forum that a explanatory
> > briefing at Langston and the elementary schools
> in
> > the SL pyramid be undertaken with an open and
> > honest conversation of the strengths and
> > weakenesses of IB and AP. Then a referendum be
> had
> > and the administration follow that choice.
> >
> > If the process is open and honest (as
> contrasted
> > with an IB sales job), I would live with the
> > outcome, even if they chose to stay with IB.
> Are
> > you ready to say the same thing?
> >
> > > Once redistricting happens, those families
> will
> > drive the curriculum.
> >
> > And you believe this because the Hughes and
> > elementary school parents were so heavily
> involved
> > in the Area Superintendent's imposing IB on
> Reston
> > in 1999, right?
> >
> > > Don't listen to the negative one on this
> forum
> > who says SL will never change
> >
> > You meant "negative ones" right.
> >
> > (we know who that poster is)
> >
> > And we know who you are.
> >
> > It's lazy to try persuade by demonizing and
> > isolating people you disagree with. UVA should
> > have taught you to argue better than this.
> >
> > Maybe you could induce your friends on the
> South
> > Lakes Boundary Study Group to publicly commit
> to
> > the referendum process described above and call
> on
> > Stuy to do the same. Then maybe you and they
> would
> > have some credibility on this issue.
> >
> > Unless that happens, it just looks like a bunch
> of
> > parents seeking a disproportionate share of
> SL's
> > educational resources for their kids to the
> > detriment of the rest of Reston's kids.
> >
> > Nothing special, new or different about that.
> >
> > Still want to "Totally agree", SLPP?
>
>
> Yes, I do. I think you chose to deliberatly
> misinterpret SLV's words and intentions. Your
> habit of picking apart what someone says, spinning
> it, turning it over a few times, adding erroneous
> interpretations of what they are saying and
> intending to say, then saying they are horrible,
> mean, insulting people, really turns me off, and I
> skip over most of your posts with the telltale
> quoting of someone's post with your
> misinterpretations and provocations in between.
> Really annoying Thomas.
>
> Not of us here are horrible, mean people, well
> maybe except for Neen, who deliberately
> manipulates and goads people. SLV does not do
> this.



If anyone is horrible here, it is the folks with SL in their name.

Your school is taking disproportionate amount of money from School Board for your coveted IB program and you then turn around and say we don't have enough students.

You are the ones who have lost your elementary schools in Reston to Herndon and are suffering underenrollment because of that. Instead of going back at this issue, what do you do? Take your favorite person Stu (who is supposed to represent his entire district but represents only Reston and South Lakes) and start grabbing kids from "prefered" communities to address the underenrollment. It does not matter to you what programs South Lakes has and what programs the other schools have (from which you are going to get the students) When somone tries to allocate money for AP program for South Lakes, your favorite person says there is no consensus in SL for AP and shoots it down.

You are the ones who hide behind the FRM numbers and complain about demographics. Have you ever looked at the problem why students do not come to South Lakes. The wound is there, instead of taking care of the wound you want to apply a band aid of 600+ kids. This will not work.

I can go on and on ...

Do you realize how much antagonism you have created with this mess.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:17PM

TJ Numbers Wrote:
> Also post how many of those AP scores, and how
> many of the 5's were from TJ ...

----
If you have access to more data several of us would like to see them. As I posted at February 17, 2008 12:19AM, "I have been unable to find where FCPS posted AP scores using the same format. If someone else can find the AP numbers, please post the source. Perhaps someone will ask FCPS for comparable AP data using the Freedom Of Information Act.

"AP vs IB" (Who if I remember correctly is self-identified as an FCPS teacher) also posted at February 17, 2008 06:53AM, "I had tried earlier to find this data and was unable to do so."

I have data from 03-04, and can provide information like "3,642 AP math exams were taken and 60.6 had a passing score." I can also can provide AP and IB-HL pass rate and pass number per subject by race, if anyone is interested, but remember these these data are three years old.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Truth ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:24PM

Dear SL Supporters:

You will notice that most of the virulent postings here against our school come from a very, very small group of people, maybe 10. A few other "Baffled" people are buying into the lies and negativity emanating from those 10. A few are suicides who are aligned with the school and write things that only harm their own community. I don't think we have much to worry about from any of these 15 or so people. They will pupil-place out of SLHS before they ever give it a chance, and the rest of us -- our new friends and our existing community -- will move on. There will remain a few fomenters in SLHS, but every school has a group of parents for whom nothing on earth is ever satisfactory.

We also don't have to worry about all these psychopathic accusations that we are awful and toxic -- not one of us has said anything evil about their schools, whereas they are very quick on the trigger to shoot South Lakes down with any dart they can find, some of them poison-tipped.

None of them has a credible concern about our school because it is no longer possible to tell whether they really want the truth -- when they are given the truth, they ignore it completely, or choose to believe it is lies because they already have their minds made up about us. This is literally called "prejudice" or Pre-Judgement.

(Which, because they are not quite as literate as they purport to be and because they ARE prejudiced, they will immediately interpret to mean they are being called racists. Of course, that is not the case. Prejudice comes in many forms. When someone makes up their minds in advance about a group of people and then refuses to listen to rationality or logic or any kind of truth, they remain willfully ignorant. And prejudiced.)

There might be two or three who do have legitimate questions about South Lakes, but they are no longer distinguishable from the rest. If they really want to know about the school and its programs, they should log off and walk into South Lakes and find out for themselves or go to original sources of knowledge.

All of us who walk into this forum from time to time to check it out knows that what I'm saying is true.

We who love and support our school and who understand clearly its needs and the solution to its challenges do not have a thing to be concerned about from the rest of this crowd. They will never be persuaded that South Lakes is a worthy school for their children. So be it.

Thanks to everyone who has been open-minded about this situation. For the rest of you, you know who you are. Best of luck next year with your children and their schools and their values.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:24PM

Manoj Bal,

SL Verity is correct in pointing out that some arguments made by Woodson HS parents could be a little more even-handed.

As implemented in FCPS, the IB program is not an elite program. IB Diploma candidates constitute only a small fraction of all FCPS students taking an IB exam. This is a, if not the, main reason that IB is so expensive per IB test in FCPS. The IB program we have in FCPS is just like the AP program in allowing students to pick and choose from a menu of IB or AP courses.

Other parents have pointed out that some AP courses are taken by FCPS students only after they take a one-year introductory course, so that it isn't fair to say that all IB HL courses take two years and all AP courses take one year. In addition, some FCPS base high schools - including McLean HS - have turned the three major AP science classes (AP Biology, AP Chemistry, and AP PHysics C) into two credit courses. I believe, but am not positive, that this also has happened at Madison HS and Oakton HS for certain AP science classes. Students in these FCPS AP high schools spend three full credits of class time studying one science subject before they take the AP test. In contrast, students in some IB base high schools take IB HL Chemistry and I believe IB HL Physics tests after two credits of class time.


Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know IB/AP has been discussed many times but one
> more time may not hurt to go through this
> excellent article.
>
> **************************************************
> **************************
> Woodson IB/AP Assessment and lessons learned
>
> Does no harm – since the “average” student takes
> at least one AP course, AP students do not develop
> a small, elite, cadre around whom the rest of the
> master schedule must be considered. Also, IB
> Diploma students have (mentors) assigned to them –
> there is an inherent unfairness when only Diploma
> Candidates have this service provided to them.
> >
> Encourages everyone to strive and achieve – AP’s
> one-year courses are more flexible than two-year
> HL IB courses and are readily available at 10th,
> 11th, and 12th grade. Some classes, including AP
> Psychology, AP Art History, AP Government., and AP
> US History can be taken by any student with no
> prerequisites. The AP Program has different goal
> levels, instead of one, rarely achieved Diploma.
> Strong students may take seven or more AP classes
> (as opposed to the maximum of 4 HL classes in the
> IB Diploma Program)
>
> Doesn’t forget anyone (late bloomers) – The AP
> program better serves late bloomers, that is,
> those students who become more academically
> inclined late in High School. Students need not
> commit until the beginning of senior year to take
> a college level AP course, and even during their
> senior year, students in regular classes can still
> sign up for and take AP exams, thereby earning
> recognition (even being AP Scholars). Students
> can take 2 or 3 AP courses per year, thus
> distributing their hardest classes instead of
> concentrating them all in the senior year. This
> allows participation in other courses as well as
> in extra curricular pursuits.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:29PM

SLPP relates:

"Not of us here are horrible, mean people, well maybe except for Neen, who deliberately manipulates and goads people. SLV does not do this."

_______________

What? What is with this ad hominem attack? Neen is relentless (and often persuasive). She consistently hits on the soft underbelly of the education regime, which by and large has followed "progressive schemes" that do not work. To a degree reflecting reality and to a degree reflecting perception (that is a worthy area of debate with her), that is just what she hammers on with South Lakes.

So your response is to whine that she manipulates and goads people. Please - are you defenseless? Hardly. Persuade, submit facts, persuade, submit more facts - and persuade again. It would be helpful refrain from whining about your plight. One of the generalizations that I perhaps unfairly often carry about "progressives" and their often emotional and gooey plea to leverage various forms of guilt (racial, socio-economic and so on) is that in so doing they are intellectually wimpy - as in not very mentally tough. Can you somehow prove me wrong? If you care about your cause, argue it persuasively - be open about the weaknesses of the institution you support yet persuasive about its strengths. In the end, if you want people to adopt your cause, credibility is vital - and persuading others that a position is being advanced for reasons other than to solely and exclusively advance self interest will carry the day.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 08:37PM

quantum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP relates:
>
> "Not of us here are horrible, mean people, well
> maybe except for Neen, who deliberately
> manipulates and goads people. SLV does not do
> this."
>
> _______________
>
> What? What is with this ad hominem attack? Neen
> is relentless (and often persuasive). She
> consistently hits on the soft underbelly of the
> education regime, which by and large has followed
> "progressive schemes" that do not work. To a
> degree reflecting reality and to a degree
> reflecting perception (that is a worthy area of
> debate with her), that is just what she hammers on
> with South Lakes.
>
> So your response is to whine that she manipulates
> and goads people. Please - are you defenseless?
> Hardly. Persuade, submit facts, persuade, submit
> more facts - and persuade again. It would be
> helpful refrain from whining about your plight.
> One of the generalizations that I perhaps unfairly
> often carry about "progressives" and their often
> emotional and gooey plea to leverage various forms
> of guilt (racial, socio-economic and so on) is
> that in so doing they are intellectually wimpy -
> as in not very mentally tough. Can you somehow
> prove me wrong? If you care about your cause,
> argue it persuasively - be open about the
> weaknesses of the institution you support yet
> persuasive about its strengths. In the end, if
> you want people to adopt your cause, credibility
> is vital - and persuading others that a position
> is being advanced for reasons other than to solely
> and exclusively advance self interest will carry
> the day.

Quantum,
I might be more convinced by Neen if she did not gratuitously attack SL and individuals that do not agree with her. She may have some valid points. In fact, I agree with her on some curriculum issues like everyday math and phonics. I don't agree with her attacks on IB. As it is, I barely read her posts because they are often so offensive and mean.

Your style is quite different. I would not say this about you.

So it is not the substance of what Neen says, it is her style. If you want to look past it, fine. But don't expect others to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2008 08:42PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Riiiiiiiiight ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:38PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear SL Supporters:
>
> You will notice that most of the virulent postings
> here against our school come from a very, very
> small group of people, maybe 10. A few other
> "Baffled" people are buying into the lies and
> negativity emanating from those 10. A few are
> suicides who are aligned with the school and write
> things that only harm their own community. I don't
> think we have much to worry about from any of
> these 15 or so people.

Riiiiiiiiiight. That's why hundreds of people signed up to speak at the hearings, the vast majority of them against redistricting. This is one of the more delusional postings I have read on this site.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Truth ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:40PM

Quantum: Your posts are usually very thought-provoking. But I have to ask: Why should South Lakes continuously be defending itself, especially against the same accusations or queries, over and over and over and over?

It isn't because "my kid is being forced there" because what they really mean "every one of my unfounded fears should be addressed."

The people asking these things don't want the truth. They get answers and refuse to accept them. They just plain don't like South Lakes, for whatever reason, mostly balderdash. It's an impossible situation for a South Lakes supporter to be in. Just imagine if people started accusing Oakton of being elitist and cold and terrible for non-conforming kids, or Chantilly of dumbing down AP courses. Think they'd get miffed at what they might perceive to be an unfounded accusation? But I have heard parents from those very schools say those very things about those very schools. Imagine a discussion along those lines and where it would lead!

This is very tiresome. So I'm suggesting that anyone who really cares about the impending boundary change get off this forum and do some legwork. South Lakes supporters have zero obligation to do the work for them. Zero.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:43PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear SL Supporters:
>
> You will notice that most of the virulent postings
> here against our school come from a very, very
> small group of people, maybe 10. A few other
> "Baffled" people are buying into the lies and
> negativity emanating from those 10. A few are
> suicides who are aligned with the school and write
> things that only harm their own community. I don't
> think we have much to worry about from any of
> these 15 or so people. They will pupil-place out
> of SLHS before they ever give it a chance, and the
> rest of us -- our new friends and our existing
> community -- will move on. There will remain a few
> fomenters in SLHS, but every school has a group of
> parents for whom nothing on earth is ever
> satisfactory.
>
> We also don't have to worry about all these
> psychopathic accusations that we are awful and
> toxic -- not one of us has said anything evil
> about their schools, whereas they are very quick
> on the trigger to shoot South Lakes down with any
> dart they can find, some of them poison-tipped.
>
> None of them has a credible concern about our
> school because it is no longer possible to tell
> whether they really want the truth -- when they
> are given the truth, they ignore it completely, or
> choose to believe it is lies because they already
> have their minds made up about us. This is
> literally called "prejudice" or Pre-Judgement.
>
> (Which, because they are not quite as literate as
> they purport to be and because they ARE
> prejudiced, they will immediately interpret to
> mean they are being called racists. Of course,
> that is not the case. Prejudice comes in many
> forms. When someone makes up their minds in
> advance about a group of people and then refuses
> to listen to rationality or logic or any kind of
> truth, they remain willfully ignorant. And
> prejudiced.)
>
> There might be two or three who do have legitimate
> questions about South Lakes, but they are no
> longer distinguishable from the rest. If they
> really want to know about the school and its
> programs, they should log off and walk into South
> Lakes and find out for themselves or go to
> original sources of knowledge.
>
> All of us who walk into this forum from time to
> time to check it out knows that what I'm saying is
> true.
>
> We who love and support our school and who
> understand clearly its needs and the solution to
> its challenges do not have a thing to be concerned
> about from the rest of this crowd. They will never
> be persuaded that South Lakes is a worthy school
> for their children. So be it.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has been open-minded about
> this situation. For the rest of you, you know who
> you are. Best of luck next year with your children
> and their schools and their values.


"A lie told often enough becomes the truth"

Lenin

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Truth ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:43PM

Riiiiiiiiight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear SL Supporters:
> >
> > You will notice that most of the virulent
> postings
> > here against our school come from a very, very
> > small group of people, maybe 10. A few other
> > "Baffled" people are buying into the lies and
> > negativity emanating from those 10. A few are
> > suicides who are aligned with the school and
> write
> > things that only harm their own community. I
> don't
> > think we have much to worry about from any of
> > these 15 or so people.
>
> Riiiiiiiiiight. That's why hundreds of people
> signed up to speak at the hearings, the vast
> majority of them against redistricting. This is
> one of the more delusional postings I have read on
> this site.

Notice that half those "hundreds of people" were fed claptrap from CAPs et al and read verbatim from their spoon-fed papers. The other quarter read from their "50 ways to stay at Madison." Hardly convincing or original or thought-provoking testimony.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truth or truthiness? ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:43PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear SL Supporters:
...

> (Which, because they are not quite as literate as
> they purport to be and because they ARE
> prejudiced, they will immediately interpret to
> mean they are being called racists. Of course,
> that is not the case. s and find out for themselves or go to
> original sources of knowledge.
>
...
> We who love and support our school and who
> understand clearly its needs and the solution to
> its challenges



Self satisfied drivel

You may be happy, and that's all well and good, we're happy for you. but that's no excuse for coercing other families out of their stable school pyramids to provide the warm bodies you claim you need.

The SLHS community have done nothing to convince anyone that RD is necessary or effective and nothing to persuade families who will be forcibly RD'd the there is any benefit to them or their children - especially given the dramatic differences between AP and IB programs.

The SLHS community has done nothing to address the legitimate concerns of families about the performance gaps demonstrated by FCPS and VA figures - to my mind 'the original source of knowledge' you seek

Its too late for playing good-cop bad-cop - you've alienated all of your neighbors. It'll be a long while before people forget being accused of racism by SLHS teachers at a public hearing (hearing number 1 if my memory serves me correctly)

Its okay for you to spout platitudes but this is not being forced on you against your clearly stated opposition and you are not being ignored by your elected officials

SB and SLHS have failed to provide an rationale which stands up to any scrutiny - which has forced the families dragged into the process to go back to the basic data and ask 'why?'

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 08:49PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum: Your posts are usually very
> thought-provoking. But I have to ask: Why should
> South Lakes continuously be defending itself,
> especially against the same accusations or
> queries, over and over and over and over?
>
> It isn't because "my kid is being forced there"
> because what they really mean "every one of my
> unfounded fears should be addressed."
>
> The people asking these things don't want the
> truth. They get answers and refuse to accept them.
> They just plain don't like South Lakes, for
> whatever reason, mostly balderdash. It's an
> impossible situation for a South Lakes supporter
> to be in. Just imagine if people started accusing
> Oakton of being elitist and cold and terrible for
> non-conforming kids, or Chantilly of dumbing down
> AP courses. Think they'd get miffed at what they
> might perceive to be an unfounded accusation? But
> I have heard parents from those very schools say
> those very things about those very schools.
> Imagine a discussion along those lines and where
> it would lead!
>
> This is very tiresome. So I'm suggesting that
> anyone who really cares about the impending
> boundary change get off this forum and do some
> legwork. South Lakes supporters have zero
> obligation to do the work for them. Zero.


Yeah, and imagine if you tried to address what people were asking, but they ignore your posts because it does not go along with their preconcieved ideas. It's very tiring to talk and talk and talk and no one listens, but they keep asking the same questions over and over, as if you never tried to address them.

And like it's our job to "sell" our school. It's a county school system folks. If you want to be "sold", go to a private school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Truth ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:54PM

t or tiness:

Again, the South Lakes community has zero obligation to provide you with an ounce of data or even with a rationale. Try as we might, most are too deaf to ever hear a word other than "moratorium." The only people who need to be convinced of what South Lakes needs and of the value of the redistricting is the School Board, and the staff has done a great job of demonstrating all the facts and rationale they need. And most of them have all been through RDs like this one and have a pretty good idea of what lies underneath the "I hate South Lakes" or "I bought my school" spirit.

We who support the school know very well that most people will be very happy there once they arrive. Or they can cut off their noses to spite their faces. Their choice.

TTFN

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Brick in the Wall ()
Date: February 17, 2008 08:58PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum: Your posts are usually very
> thought-provoking. But I have to ask: Why should
> South Lakes continuously be defending itself,
> especially against the same accusations or
> queries, over and over and over and over?
>

SL invited this scrutiny by trying to use the coercive power of government to annex some neighborhoods that were perfectly happy where they were.

> It isn't because "my kid is being forced there"
> because what they really mean "every one of my
> unfounded fears should be addressed."
>

Uhh, I don't know about you, but I don't like being coerced. Please don't try and speak for others are thinking.

> The people asking these things don't want the
> truth. They get answers and refuse to accept them.
> They just plain don't like South Lakes, for
> whatever reason, mostly balderdash. It's an
> impossible situation for a South Lakes supporter
> to be in. Just imagine if people started accusing
> Oakton of being elitist and cold and terrible for
> non-conforming kids, or Chantilly of dumbing down
> AP courses. Think they'd get miffed at what they
> might perceive to be an unfounded accusation? But
> I have heard parents from those very schools say
> those very things about those very schools.
> Imagine a discussion along those lines and where
> it would lead!

All the schools involved here have their strengths and issues. I don't believe I have seen any postings to the contrary. But some have MORE issues than others (otherwise this debate would not be ongoing). Of course, FCPS sees all schools as equal. If that was only true.

>
> This is very tiresome. So I'm suggesting that
> anyone who really cares about the impending
> boundary change get off this forum and do some
> legwork. South Lakes supporters have zero
> obligation to do the work for them. Zero.

You mean legwork beyond looking into the school's performance, programs, leadership?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Sad ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:10PM

I think many of us will be happy to remove our children from FCPS and go private. The truth is we are not SOLD on what you are selling.

You have put it all on the line for this and clearly you are floundering and you know it. We dont get IB it would seem that those of us that dont are the majority.

It could be that we are just too stupid to see its merits. Apparently you are the only ones smart enough to see what we dont. Why dont we just agree to disagree? We will be happy to have our kids stay where they are getting the dumbed down version of IB called AP and you should be happy to go on with your intellectually superior programme.

Now leave us alone. Good luck to you and if it means we have to pupil place or go private to avoid dealing you in the future many of us will absolutely make that choice. You all are a frightening group of zealots.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: curious redux ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:14PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> t or tiness:
>
> Again, the South Lakes community has zero
> obligation to provide you with an ounce of data or
> even with a rationale. Try as we might, most are
> too deaf to ever hear a word other than
> "moratorium." The only people who need to be
> convinced of what South Lakes needs and of the
> value of the redistricting is the School Board,
> and the staff has done a great job of
> demonstrating all the facts and rationale they
> need. And most of them have all been through RDs
> like this one and have a pretty good idea of what
> lies underneath the "I hate South Lakes" or "I
> bought my school" spirit.
>
> We who support the school know very well that most
> people will be very happy there once they arrive.
> Or they can cut off their noses to spite their
> faces. Their choice.
>
> TTFN

Hey there TRUTH or SLVerity,

So let's drop all the negativity and go back to basics. I pose the following questions to each of you, as well as to any other SL pro-RD blogger.

1) Why do you want Fox Mill and Floris vs another school to feed into your school?

2) Also, do you think the people slated to come to SL should accept IB without qualm? If yes or no, why?

3) If you woke up tomorrow and found out your neighborhood was identified as a candidate to be RD into an AP school, a) how would you feel, and b) what would you do? Please answer honestly.

4) Do you think new families joining SLHS have the right to advocate switching to AP? If yes or no, why?

Simple questions begging simple answers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 09:16PM

The rest aside, Thomas,
I do think we should have an open hearing and referendum on IB vs. AP at South Lakes. Others at SL would welcome this opportunity too.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Truth ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:28PM

curious redux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > t or tiness:
> >
> > Again, the South Lakes community has zero
> > obligation to provide you with an ounce of data
> or
> > even with a rationale. Try as we might, most
> are
> > too deaf to ever hear a word other than
> > "moratorium." The only people who need to be
> > convinced of what South Lakes needs and of the
> > value of the redistricting is the School Board,
> > and the staff has done a great job of
> > demonstrating all the facts and rationale they
> > need. And most of them have all been through
> RDs
> > like this one and have a pretty good idea of
> what
> > lies underneath the "I hate South Lakes" or "I
> > bought my school" spirit.
> >
> > We who support the school know very well that
> most
> > people will be very happy there once they
> arrive.
> > Or they can cut off their noses to spite their
> > faces. Their choice.
> >
> > TTFN
>
> Hey there TRUTH or SLVerity,
>
> So let's drop all the negativity and go back to
> basics. I pose the following questions to each of
> you, as well as to any other SL pro-RD blogger.
>
> 1) Why do you want Fox Mill and Floris vs another
> school to feed into your school?
>
> 2) Also, do you think the people slated to come to
> SL should accept IB without qualm? If yes or no,
> why?
>
> 3) If you woke up tomorrow and found out your
> neighborhood was identified as a candidate to be
> RD into an AP school, a) how would you feel, and
> b) what would you do? Please answer honestly.
>
> 4) Do you think new families joining SLHS have the
> right to advocate switching to AP? If yes or no,
> why?
>
> Simple questions begging simple answers.


Now: Tell me why you possibly imagine that any of us posting here is doing any of you any good, when you keep asking these questions, we keep answering them, then you just keep asking them. Give it up.

Sorry. These questions have all been addressed, or are irrelevant. Lookin' for sympathy? Sure, we'll give it. But irrelevant. The ball is in your court, not ours.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 09:31PM

curious redux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>>
> Hey there TRUTH or SLVerity,
>
> So let's drop all the negativity and go back to
> basics. I pose the following questions to each of
> you, as well as to any other SL pro-RD blogger.
>
> 1) Why do you want Fox Mill and Floris vs another
> school to feed into your school?
>
> 2) Also, do you think the people slated to come to
> SL should accept IB without qualm? If yes or no,
> why?
>
> 3) If you woke up tomorrow and found out your
> neighborhood was identified as a candidate to be
> RD into an AP school, a) how would you feel, and
> b) what would you do? Please answer honestly.
>
> 4) Do you think new families joining SLHS have the
> right to advocate switching to AP? If yes or no,
> why?
>
> Simple questions begging simple answers.

1. Fox Mill and Floris coming together will mean those neighborhoods come together in a contiguous neighborhood. Fox Mill because it is very close, it already has ties to Hunters Woods. Contrary to what people say, many of those kids play Reston sports. Floris is a contiguous neighborhood with Fox Mill, a plus, and it is Westfield, so it limits dominoing.

2. IB/AP, let there be a referendum at South Lakes. People think that SL is staunchly IB, but this is not true. IB has some advantages in the emphasis on writing. Our kids know how to write--I think people discount this and I don't know why. But sounds like IB has workload issues and credit issues. Though I think the credit issues won't profoundly effect many kids. Anyway, a fair hearing of the pros and cons, then let the community decide. This is obviously the way to go.

3. see above. I could live with either IB or AP, though now I may have slight preference for AP.

4. Yes, they have the right to advocate switching to AP. I've always thought the new communities should have a voice at SL, unlike posters here saying we are nazis. We are not.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: bored of patronizing SL guff ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:31PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We who support the school know very well that most
> people will be very happy there once they arrive.


More patronizing guff from SL - keeping your spirits up?

So its all about south lakes needs. What about our needs and our kids needs?

We don't want to 'arrive' - we're happy as we are, with the schools we're part of and we shouldn't be annexed to fulfill your fantasies and fix your failings

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: The Truth ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:34PM

SLPP: Let us know if you change any minds. I admire the try. You have more patience than I do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:35PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The rest aside, Thomas,
> I do think we should have an open hearing and
> referendum on IB vs. AP at South Lakes. Others at
> SL would welcome this opportunity too.

Glad to hear it.

Now, if we can just get the South Lakes Boundary Study Group and Stuy to agree with us.

Because it will take several years to implement any change, it's really a decision that the parents of Hughes and elementary school parents should make and not SL parents.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:37PM

WTF? "Truth" scribes in an irresonsoble manner:

"You will notice that most of the virulent postings here against our school come from a very, very small group of people, maybe 10. A few other "Baffled" people are buying into the lies and negativity emanating from those 10. A few are suicides who are aligned with the school and write things that only harm their own community. I don't think we have much to worry about from any of these 15 or so people. They will pupil-place out of SLHS before they ever give it a chance, and the rest of us -- our new friends and our existing community -- will move on. There will remain a few fomenters in SLHS, but every school has a group of parents for whom nothing on earth is ever satisfactory.

We also don't have to worry about all these psychopathic accusations that we are awful and toxic -- not one of us has said anything evil about their schools, whereas they are very quick on the trigger to shoot South Lakes down with any dart they can find, some of them poison-tipped.

None of them has a credible concern about our school because it is no longer possible to tell whether they really want the truth -- when they are given the truth, they ignore it completely, or choose to believe it is lies because they already have their minds made up about us. This is literally called "prejudice" or Pre-Judgement.

(Which, because they are not quite as literate as they purport to be and because they ARE prejudiced, they will immediately interpret to mean they are being called racists. Of course, that is not the case. Prejudice comes in many forms. When someone makes up their minds in advance about a group of people and then refuses to listen to rationality or logic or any kind of truth, they remain willfully ignorant. And prejudiced.)

There might be two or three who do have legitimate questions about South Lakes, but they are no longer distinguishable from the rest. If they really want to know about the school and its programs, they should log off and walk into South Lakes and find out for themselves or go to original sources of knowledge.

All of us who walk into this forum from time to time to check it out knows that what I'm saying is true.

We who love and support our school and who understand clearly its needs and the solution to its challenges do not have a thing to be concerned about from the rest of this crowd. They will never be persuaded that South Lakes is a worthy school for their children. So be it.

Thanks to everyone who has been open-minded about this situation. For the rest of you, you know who you are. Best of luck next year with your children and their schools and their values."


Let's see...what terminology is used here? Suicides, fomenters, psychopathic, poison-tipped? The terminology of death. If you don't want to be called toxic, the choice of vocabulary is yours.

Clearly the writer here is delusional, and feels there is no basis for any rational person to opposed this redistricting exercise, or to suggest that is is not in the interests of their students to be sent to a different school. Anyone who suggests otherwise is prejudiced and ignorant. I find this sort of dialogue to be completely ineffective and offensive. And I didn't even get the post where the writer then "almost criticizes" Oakton and Chantilly, since she's just quoting other parents. Why she couldn't quote parents who love their schools, I'll never know.

If you're looking for posters who are value-challenged, play fast and loose with the truth, and won't listen to legitiamate concerns, you only need to look in the mirror.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Curious redux ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:43PM

The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP: Let us know if you change any minds. I
> admire the try. You have more patience than I do.

How about following SLPP's lead and answer the 4 questions. You might change some minds. There are always new people joining the blog. Try your best at a rationale answer.

Also, for SLPP, thanks for the answers. They do raise hope. One way to radically change the game would be for SLPTA to announce before the vote on the 28th that they will begin a dialog on AP/IB with a view towards a referendum in the coming year. Do any of the true SL people on this blog think that SLPTA could make such a commitment? Non-SL families are anticipating that they will have to fight the PTA tooth-and-nail to get this on the agenda. I think that if the PTA gets in front of this issue, a lot of hackles will be reduced. At least people will feel they will have a chance to be heard.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:45PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Quantum: Your posts are usually very
> > thought-provoking. But I have to ask: Why
> should
> > South Lakes continuously be defending itself,
> > especially against the same accusations or
> > queries, over and over and over and over?
> >
> > It isn't because "my kid is being forced there"
> > because what they really mean "every one of my
> > unfounded fears should be addressed."
> >
> > The people asking these things don't want the
> > truth. They get answers and refuse to accept
> them.
> > They just plain don't like South Lakes, for
> > whatever reason, mostly balderdash. It's an
> > impossible situation for a South Lakes
> supporter
> > to be in. Just imagine if people started
> accusing
> > Oakton of being elitist and cold and terrible
> for
> > non-conforming kids, or Chantilly of dumbing
> down
> > AP courses. Think they'd get miffed at what
> they
> > might perceive to be an unfounded accusation?
> But
> > I have heard parents from those very schools
> say
> > those very things about those very schools.
> > Imagine a discussion along those lines and
> where
> > it would lead!
> >
> > This is very tiresome. So I'm suggesting that
> > anyone who really cares about the impending
> > boundary change get off this forum and do some
> > legwork. South Lakes supporters have zero
> > obligation to do the work for them. Zero.
>
>
> Yeah, and imagine if you tried to address what
> people were asking, but they ignore your posts
> because it does not go along with their
> preconcieved ideas. It's very tiring to talk and
> talk and talk and no one listens, but they keep
> asking the same questions over and over, as if you
> never tried to address them.
>
> And like it's our job to "sell" our school. It's
> a county school system folks. If you want to be
> "sold", go to a private school.


What I am "sold" on is that I should not be paying for anybody's extra IB costs over AP. Nor should I pay for all the Focus School and CETA and Hunters Woods Magnet. I do believe I should pay -support reduced ratio staffing but not these items.

So all you fine IB supporters who get extra staff to run the program, where will the money come from? They left in the class size increase but I guess that's not important at IB schools .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 09:46PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The rest aside, Thomas,
> > I do think we should have an open hearing and
> > referendum on IB vs. AP at South Lakes. Others
> at
> > SL would welcome this opportunity too.
>
> Glad to hear it.
>
> Now, if we can just get the South Lakes Boundary
> Study Group and Stuy to agree with us.
>
> Because it will take several years to implement
> any change, it's really a decision that the
> parents of Hughes and elementary school parents
> should make and not SL parents.

Stu did say he would consider it--that will be hard to back out of. One good thing about this incredibly grueling process--the awareness of these issues has to be at an all time high. I hope and will advocate for the younger parents getting involved too.

Really, how long does AP take to implement? I wouldn't think it would be that long. Especially if it's starting with the rising ninth grade class. They won't even want to take any AP classes until tenth grade at the earliest, right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2008 09:49PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:47PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> curious redux Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >>
> > Hey there TRUTH or SLVerity,
> >
> > So let's drop all the negativity and go back to
> > basics. I pose the following questions to each
> of
> > you, as well as to any other SL pro-RD blogger.
> >
> > 1) Why do you want Fox Mill and Floris vs
> another
> > school to feed into your school?
> >
> > 2) Also, do you think the people slated to come
> to
> > SL should accept IB without qualm? If yes or
> no,
> > why?
> >
> > 3) If you woke up tomorrow and found out your
> > neighborhood was identified as a candidate to
> be
> > RD into an AP school, a) how would you feel,
> and
> > b) what would you do? Please answer honestly.
> >
> > 4) Do you think new families joining SLHS have
> the
> > right to advocate switching to AP? If yes or
> no,
> > why?
> >
> > Simple questions begging simple answers.
>
> 1. Fox Mill and Floris coming together will mean
> those neighborhoods come together in a contiguous
> neighborhood. Fox Mill because it is very close,
> it already has ties to Hunters Woods. Contrary to
> what people say, many of those kids play Reston
> sports. Floris is a contiguous neighborhood with
> Fox Mill, a plus, and it is Westfield, so it
> limits dominoing.
>
> 2. IB/AP, let there be a referendum at South
> Lakes. People think that SL is staunchly IB, but
> this is not true. IB has some advantages in the
> emphasis on writing. Our kids know how to
> write--I think people discount this and I don't
> know why. But sounds like IB has workload issues
> and credit issues. Though I think the credit
> issues won't profoundly effect many kids. Anyway,
> a fair hearing of the pros and cons, then let the
> community decide. This is obviously the way to
> go.
>
> 3. see above. I could live with either IB or AP,
> though now I may have slight preference for AP.
>
> 4. Yes, they have the right to advocate switching
> to AP. I've always thought the new communities
> should have a voice at SL, unlike posters here
> saying we are nazis. We are not.


In reference to your answer to question 1, you think Floris going into SL is contiguous. Let me tell you a secret. Till this boundary study we did not know what East Floris and West Floris was? You know how this term origniated? When your master Stu put in Fox Mill and Floris together in South Lakes, guess what SL got overcrowded. So master Stu came up with a single lane road West OX to artificially divide Floris into east and west. You know it hurts a lot when someone divides your community in 2 for their selfish goals.

Please do not call Floris going into SL contiguous. We will not buy it. Not now, never !!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 09:54PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > curious redux Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Truth Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >>
> > > Hey there TRUTH or SLVerity,
> > >
> > > So let's drop all the negativity and go back
> to
> > > basics. I pose the following questions to
> each
> > of
> > > you, as well as to any other SL pro-RD
> blogger.
> > >
> > > 1) Why do you want Fox Mill and Floris vs
> > another
> > > school to feed into your school?
> > >
> > > 2) Also, do you think the people slated to
> come
> > to
> > > SL should accept IB without qualm? If yes or
> > no,
> > > why?
> > >
> > > 3) If you woke up tomorrow and found out your
> > > neighborhood was identified as a candidate to
> > be
> > > RD into an AP school, a) how would you feel,
> > and
> > > b) what would you do? Please answer
> honestly.
> > >
> > > 4) Do you think new families joining SLHS
> have
> > the
> > > right to advocate switching to AP? If yes or
> > no,
> > > why?
> > >
> > > Simple questions begging simple answers.
> >
> > 1. Fox Mill and Floris coming together will
> mean
> > those neighborhoods come together in a
> contiguous
> > neighborhood. Fox Mill because it is very
> close,
> > it already has ties to Hunters Woods. Contrary
> to
> > what people say, many of those kids play Reston
> > sports. Floris is a contiguous neighborhood
> with
> > Fox Mill, a plus, and it is Westfield, so it
> > limits dominoing.
> >
> > 2. IB/AP, let there be a referendum at South
> > Lakes. People think that SL is staunchly IB,
> but
> > this is not true. IB has some advantages in
> the
> > emphasis on writing. Our kids know how to
> > write--I think people discount this and I don't
> > know why. But sounds like IB has workload
> issues
> > and credit issues. Though I think the credit
> > issues won't profoundly effect many kids.
> Anyway,
> > a fair hearing of the pros and cons, then let
> the
> > community decide. This is obviously the way to
> > go.
> >
> > 3. see above. I could live with either IB or
> AP,
> > though now I may have slight preference for AP.
> >
> > 4. Yes, they have the right to advocate
> switching
> > to AP. I've always thought the new communities
> > should have a voice at SL, unlike posters here
> > saying we are nazis. We are not.
>
>
> In reference to your answer to question 1, you
> think Floris going into SL is contiguous. Let me
> tell you a secret. Till this boundary study we
> did not know what East Floris and West Floris was?
> You know how this term origniated? When your
> master Stu put in Fox Mill and Floris together in
> South Lakes, guess what SL got overcrowded. So
> master Stu came up with a single lane road West OX
> to artificially divide Floris into east and west.
> You know it hurts a lot when someone divides your
> community in 2 for their selfish goals.
>
> Please do not call Floris going into SL
> contiguous. We will not buy it. Not now, never
> !!

I meant Floris is contiguous with Fox Mill, in that they share a border. Sorry!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Manoj Bal ()
Date: February 17, 2008 09:55PM

Also as far as Floris being continguous with Fox Mill is concerned, do you not see the Highway 7100 separating us.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: February 17, 2008 10:02PM

> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The rest aside, Thomas,
> > > I do think we should have an open hearing and
> > > referendum on IB vs. AP at South Lakes.
> Others
> > at
> > > SL would welcome this opportunity too.
> >
> > Glad to hear it.
> >
> > Now, if we can just get the South Lakes
> Boundary
> > Study Group and Stuy to agree with us.
> >
> > Because it will take several years to implement
> > any change, it's really a decision that the
> > parents of Hughes and elementary school parents
> > should make and not SL parents.
>

Also, Thomas, don't assume the SL boundary study group is a monolithic group where everyone thinks the same. We came together to advocate for our school, but there are different opinions on different issues, just like in any other group.
>

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:03PM

Manoj,

Even contiguous regions can have highways between them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: moreofmore ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:15PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This forum has perpetuated a myth that the
> > diploma is only
> > > for geniuses,
> >
> > No one has written that. Many have written
> that
> > its for an elite few who are motivated to do a
> > huge amount of book work. That assertion is
> > supported by the number of IB diplomas issued.
> >
> > > Only Diploma candidates get credit for IB
> > classes.
> >
> > While some have written this, it is not true.
> > However, it is true that colleges mostly give
> > advanced placement credit only for the 2 year
> HL
> > classes.
> >
> > It is also true that the IB HL test results
> don't
> > get reported until after many colleges have
> > registered their freshman for their classes,
> thus
> > defeating one of the supposed benefits of IB HL
> > courses.
> >
> > It is also true that AP Calc appears to be more
> > rigorous than IB Math HL.
> >
> > > If IB had been in a school like Langley,
> > students would have flocked
> > > there for the program.
> >
> > So why haven't the Langley parents clamored for
> > it? Are they just stupid, too?
> >
> > They managed the political process effectively
> > enough to get an addition instead of being part
> of
> > this redistricting. Thus, demontrating that, if
> > they had wanted IB, they would have gotten it.
> > What's far more telling is that after 7 years,
> no
> > other FCPS HS has demanded IB.
> >
> > > Compare FRM stats at Marshall with those at
> SL.
> > It's the demographics,
> > > stupid.
> >
> > Has it once occurred to you that your
> transparent
> > contempt for the parents and children of your
> > fellow Restonians not only puts you in a bad
> light
> > but re-enforces the negative attitude of the
> Fox
> > Mill and Floris parents toward SL.
> >
> > It's not the demographics, it's the staff as
> every
> > comparison with Stuart has demonstrated.
> >
> > > Younger families in the SL pyramid have no
> > preference for IB or AP.
> >
> > So you have generously deigned to make the
> choice
> > for them?
> >
> > It's exactly because of their unfamiliarity
> with
> > IB v. AP that I have advocated throughout my
> > participation on this forum that a explanatory
> > briefing at Langston and the elementary schools
> in
> > the SL pyramid be undertaken with an open and
> > honest conversation of the strengths and
> > weakenesses of IB and AP. Then a referendum be
> had
> > and the administration follow that choice.
> >
> > If the process is open and honest (as
> contrasted
> > with an IB sales job), I would live with the
> > outcome, even if they chose to stay with IB.
> Are
> > you ready to say the same thing?
> >
> > > Once redistricting happens, those families
> will
> > drive the curriculum.
> >
> > And you believe this because the Hughes and
> > elementary school parents were so heavily
> involved
> > in the Area Superintendent's imposing IB on
> Reston
> > in 1999, right?
> >
> > > Don't listen to the negative one on this
> forum
> > who says SL will never change
> >
> > You meant "negative ones" right.
> >
> > (we know who that poster is)
> >
> > And we know who you are.
> >
> > It's lazy to try persuade by demonizing and
> > isolating people you disagree with. UVA should
> > have taught you to argue better than this.
> >
> > Maybe you could induce your friends on the
> South
> > Lakes Boundary Study Group to publicly commit
> to
> > the referendum process described above and call
> on
> > Stuy to do the same. Then maybe you and they
> would
> > have some credibility on this issue.
> >
> > Unless that happens, it just looks like a bunch
> of
> > parents seeking a disproportionate share of
> SL's
> > educational resources for their kids to the
> > detriment of the rest of Reston's kids.
> >
> > Nothing special, new or different about that.
> >
> > Still want to "Totally agree", SLPP?
>
>
> Yes, I do. I think you chose to deliberatly
> misinterpret SLV's words and intentions. Your
> habit of picking apart what someone says, spinning
> it, turning it over a few times, adding erroneous
> interpretations of what they are saying and
> intending to say, then saying they are horrible,
> mean, insulting people, really turns me off, and I
> skip over most of your posts with the telltale
> quoting of someone's post with your
> misinterpretations and provocations in between.
> Really annoying Thomas.
>
> Not of us here are horrible, mean people, well
> maybe except for Neen, who deliberately
> manipulates and goads people. SLV does not do
> this.



Mr. More just writes what the rest of us are thinking. We are not stupid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:17PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, Thomas, don't assume the SL boundary study group is a monolithic group where > everyone thinks the same. We came together to advocate for our school, but
> there are different opinions on different issues, just like in any other group.

I reference SLBSG because it's my understanding that the PTSA is prohibited from getting involved in curriculum debates. That leaves the Boundary Study Group as the only group in a position to go to Stuy to get his commitment to the referendum.

when I was prohibted from the yahoo group one of the reasons given was my opposition to IB, Since no one opposed the exclusion, it was reasonable to conclude that the other participants agreed.

If that's a inexact assumption, I'm glad of that also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2008 10:30PM by Thomas More.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:21PM

Point of fact: I know of at least three neighborhood HOAs that straddle 7100 in the boundary study area (Fair Woods, Century Oaks and Franklin Farm). So 7100 isn't necessarily an automatic division, it depends on other factors. If Floris has no HOA, then it's harder for you to make the case that it's unified at all. Does Floris have an HOA and defined boundaries? Or are we simply talking about the elementary school boundary, in wihch case the school board draws them up anyway and obviously, as we are finding out now, can redraw them at will.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:25PM

>>>>>Don't listen to the negative one on this forum who says SL will never change (we know who that poster is) because it is simply not true.<<<<

Can you tell us how you know that to be true? When South Lakes got IB, did the community decide which program they would have? No. They did not. Why would you think that the community would decide now? Or in the future?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:28PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stu did say he would consider it--that will be hard to back out of.

I wish I was that confident.

> I hope and will advocate for the younger parents getting involved too.

It should ONLY be the younger parents for reasons I'll set out below.

> Really, how long does AP take to implement? I wouldn't think it would be that
> long. Especially if it's starting with the rising ninth grade class. They
> won't even want to take any AP classes until tenth grade at the earliest, right?

The teachers have to be certified which will take time, a year or more.

The IB kids now at SL have to be given the time to finish their IB classes.

A full AP program won't be in place until 3-4 years after the change was approved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:29PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-
> Totally agree. I think there is plenty interest
> in AP at SL, even among those already at the high
> school.

If that is true, why did South Lakes get stuck with IB? Why do you think community input will matter in the future if it hasn't mattered in the past?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:33PM

Manoj Bal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also as far as Floris being continguous with Fox
> Mill is concerned, do you not see the Highway 7100
> separating us.

Actually, 7100 used to divide Floris from Fox Mill. One of the Floris redistrictings sliced off Floris east of Meadow Hall and moved it to Fox Mill. So there's a piece of Fox Mill west of 7100. That redistricting was about around 5 years ago.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: February 17, 2008 10:51PM

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stu did say he would consider it--that will be
> hard to back out of.
>
> I wish I was that confident.
>
> > I hope and will advocate for the younger parents
> getting involved too.
>
> It should ONLY be the younger parents for reasons
> I'll set out below.
>
> > Really, how long does AP take to implement? I
> wouldn't think it would be that
> > long. Especially if it's starting with the
> rising ninth grade class. They
> > won't even want to take any AP classes until
> tenth grade at the earliest, right?
>
> The teachers have to be certified which will take
> time, a year or more.
>
> The IB kids now at SL have to be given the time to
> finish their IB classes.
>
> A full AP program won't be in place until 3-4
> years after the change was approved.

That's right. That is what my sister in law told me (she taught in high school) if a high school was to change from an AP to IB and vice versa, the process would take several years to complete a program change. Not overnight.

Options: ReplyQuote
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