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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: word ()
Date: January 04, 2008 12:34PM

Another Fox Mill Dad = SL Troll

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 12:34PM

samgee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Samgee, get your facts straight. The
> recommended
> > proposal posted on fcps.edu includes
> > grandfathering and clearly states that only
> rising
> > ninth graders will go.
>

> Perhaps you should get your facts straight. Are
> you afraid that
> the facts will cause more panic among the Fox Mill
> community?
> Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents that the
> only students
> guaranteed to benefit from grandfathering would be
> rising seniors.
> Perhaps, you can offer Fox Mill ES parents your
> personal guarantee
> that only rising 9th graders will be affected. I
> know many parents
> will be seeking your counsel in this matter.



I honestly don't know why I'm bothering responding to this---look at the recommended proposal for yourself on fcps.edu!!! What Gibson said to Crossfield last year no longer applies.
>

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: January 04, 2008 12:39PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samgee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Samgee, get your facts straight. The
> > recommended
> > > proposal posted on fcps.edu includes
> > > grandfathering and clearly states that only
> > rising
> > > ninth graders will go.
> >
>
> > Perhaps you should get your facts straight. Are
> > you afraid that
> > the facts will cause more panic among the Fox
> Mill
> > community?
> > Stu Gibson told Crossfield PTA parents that the
> > only students
> > guaranteed to benefit from grandfathering would
> be
> > rising seniors.
> > Perhaps, you can offer Fox Mill ES parents your
> > personal guarantee
> > that only rising 9th graders will be affected.
> I
> > know many parents
> > will be seeking your counsel in this matter.
>
>
>
> I honestly don't know why I'm bothering responding
> to this---look at the recommended proposal for
> yourself on fcps.edu!!! What Gibson said to
> Crossfield last year no longer applies.
> >

I appreciate your feedback and admire your sincerity. However, my beef is with Stu Gibson and we all know how you can trust Stu Gibson.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 12:39PM

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > I also think we need to take a hard look at
> > curriculum and why some kids are failing,
> > particularly ESOL and poor. Could it be the
> > "whole language" method of teaching reading? I
> > would bet that it is. And what about this
> > "Everyday Math"? To me, it's a confusing mess.
> > These are issues to take a hard look at across
> the
> > county.
>
>
> What is Everyday Math? I've seen that discussed
> here before but my 6th grader is doing the math
> that I learned - pre algebra, geometry, integers,
> in prparation for algebra.
>
> He did have this wacko text book in third grade
> that I complained about. It was written by a some
> social scientist or something but not a
> mathematician. We got rid of that. Is that
> Everday Math? I'm wondering if some of this stuff
> is elementary school specific.


To Old Timer and all concerned parents,
Please view this video on everyday math:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI

My son is getting this in his 3rd grade class. I looked up the yearly curriculum, it covers so many topics,I doubt they can master many of them. Having to learn all of the methods is very confusing and error prone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 12:40PM by South Lakes Pyramid parent.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 12:47PM

Any SL apologists care to address the news story someone posted above? (By the way, a link to a source is needed, whoever posted that.) Judging by the ages and location of those involved, the violent thugs are either South Lakes students or very recent graduates. That is some hard-core premeditated street violence right there, and not some random "school shooter" head case. I would definitely think twice about sending my kids into that neighborhood daily. I don't blame others for feeling the same.

And re: Booya -- why must we automatically assume he or she is a troll? Because he isn't sticking to the official SL Party Line? I don't doubt there are a few people who (justifiably, IMO) feel that way, and it's not hard to believe that one of them would choose to gloat on an anonymous forum like this one. It is impossible for me to believe that EVERY South Lakes parent and student is above the fray. Nowhere is utopia.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 12:52PM

By the way, regarding grandfathering -- there is no way the school district has the physical or financial resources to pull that off. They're already predicting a budget shortfall. Where are they going to get the extra buses and drivers to double up on transportation in and out of the affected neighborhoods for the next three years, with some kids going to their old HS and some going to the new one? Either they will change this to only rising seniors at the last minute, or they will say, "Fine, finish at your old school, but YOU provide the transportation." That's my prediction, anyway. We shall see.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 12:58PM

Navy Area Parent,

What was your comment about the McLean student beat to a pulp in the face by his fellow students last week? Would you say that McLean is an unsafe neighborhood because of the actions of the few? Taxpayer posted the link the day before yesterday. Check it out.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:02PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any SL apologists care to address the news story
> someone posted above? (By the way, a link to a
> source is needed, whoever posted that.) Judging
> by the ages and location of those involved, the
> violent thugs are either South Lakes students or
> very recent graduates. That is some hard-core
> premeditated street violence right there, and not
> some random "school shooter" head case. I would
> definitely think twice about sending my kids into
> that neighborhood daily. I don't blame others for
> feeling the same.
>

Tell me, what in the article suggested anything about those involved being from South Lakes? That neighborhood is nowhere near the school. In fact, it is much closer to Floris than it is to my house.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:04PM

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can see how this redistricting will benefit
> "advantaged" children in SLH. But I can't see how
> it'll benefit the "disadvantaged" portion of
> students in SLH, as statistically, they are
> getting less help towards them, percentage wise.
> No I'm not talking about extracurriculum bunch,
> but academics, the stuff will really help them be
> successful in the future.
>
> Is there a voice for these children in SLH here?


Floris, students who are disadvantaged, in Fairfax County and nationwide, do better academically when they make up a smaller percentage of their student body.

The ratio of students to teachers will not change, and when less advantaged kids make up a smaller part of a class, the teacher can spend more time and energy with each one.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: word ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:04PM

The stabbing was a stones throw from Dogwood, which is in the SL territory. The kid was high school age - 17. They are looking for the other 10 accomplices. More to follow.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:15PM

I thought there were a lot of drop-outs and slackers in our area? Any comment on the McLean gang and the relative safety there?

Dogwood is much closer to the Floris area than it is to my house. Do you think that crime stops at Reston's edge?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:15PM

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Fox Mill Dad = SL Troll


you wish

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:17PM

Reston Parent Wrote:
> ... I
> suggest you visit SLHS and get a feel about the
> school. If you really don't want to send your kids
> there, there are always options like pupil
> placement, GT, and TJ. But we can't delay this
> change any longer. You have to look at the big
> picture from a county wise point of view. SLHS
> students have equal rights to access the same
> programs that other schools provide.

-----
Many of us HAVE visited South Lakes (yes, recently) and we STILL do not want boundary changes unless an adjacent school is significantly overcrowded.

If you like IB, fine. Make it work for you, like it works at other small IB schools like Stuart and Marshall.

On the other hand, if you want the same programs that the rest of us have, including AP math and science, then get rid of IB.

As for a county-wide point of view, South Lakes can and should wait a year and push for a county-wide high and middle school boundary study.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Berdhuis ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:18PM

SLHS Padre,

Would you like to meet at Sorrento's for lunch some time and discuss some of our thoughts? It might help to meet face to face.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:22PM

Forum Reader:
>
> As for a county-wide point of view, South Lakes
> can and should wait a year and push for a
> county-wide high and middle school boundary study.

Why should we wait? That makes no sense from our point of view. You can and should present your conclusion to the SB. Maybe they will listen to you.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:27PM

I would say I see a difference between apparent gang warfare going on near my child's school (and likely involving students or recent graduates) and a random videotaped attack that could happen to anyone, anywhere.

I'm just pointing out that the perception of South Lakes as a school with gang problems may not be entirely without justification. I seriously doubt South Lakes is a really dangerous place (this is Fairfax County, not Compton), but if you're wondering why some people wonder about South Lakes's safety, this kind of stuff is why. "Trust us, it's fine," you say, but stories like this do nothing to build confidence in the neighborhood South Lakes occupies.



SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Navy Area Parent,
>
> What was your comment about the McLean student
> beat to a pulp in the face by his fellow students
> last week? Would you say that McLean is an unsafe
> neighborhood because of the actions of the few?
> Taxpayer posted the link the day before yesterday.
> Check it out.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:28PM

But you aren't attending that neighborhood, you are attending the school. Incidentally, the neighborhood around South Lakes is very safe.

I also think it is more likely for any of our children to meet the fate of the McLean kid. Do you think your children would be involved with a gang?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 01:30PM by SLVerity.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:38PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But you aren't attending that neighborhood, you
> are attending the school. Incidentally, the
> neighborhood around South Lakes is very safe.
>
> I also think it is more likely for any of our
> children to meet the fate of the McLean kid. Do
> you think your children would be involved with a
> gang?

Not likely. However, it is quite likely that they could be easy targets for harassment by bored gangsters of either the real or wanna-be variety. Since I'm not being redistricted to SL, I'm not losing sleep over the state of the neighborhood and I take you at your word when you say SL's immediate environment is fine ... I'm just trying to explain why stories like the above give many parents pause. South Reston has a reputation. Teenage gang stabbings don't help it any. You keep saying that Floris and FM families are totally unjustfied in any safety concerns, and that may be true, but I am trying to show you why they have them. Don't shoot the messenger.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:39PM

Just one more point, Navy Parent. Two years ago, a Hendon student was murdered in a drive-by gang shooting, in a neighborhood very near Herndon HS. Her boyfriend was also injured in the attack. Yet many on this site have said they would willingly send their children to Herndon, as recently as this morning.

Why does anything negative that happens in Reston accrue to South Lakes HS, while similar or worse events in Herndon do not prompt the same reaction about HHS? Just wondering.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:46PM

I personally wouldn't send my kids to Herndon, either. That may not be a popular opinion here, but it's the truth. As far as I can tell, other than offering AP, Herndon has a lot of the same issues as South Lakes, they are just masked better because of the North Reston presence. I have no idea why Herndon High doesn't receive more criticsm from the anti-SL parents here.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: booya ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:46PM

SLPP,
Exactly what would make me a good parent? Lying? Putting on airs? Perhaps posting on this message board for months? Like I said, my children have all they need to succeed. I don't need 700 additional students (most of whom don't want to be there) to give my children any more than they already have.

If they don't WANT to be there, why on earth would I want them there? To create another distraction? There's already enough students in high school that don't want to be there.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:50PM

Old Timer Wrote:
> What is Everyday Math? ....
> He did have this wacko text book in third grade
> that I complained about. It was written by a some
> social scientist or something but not a
> mathematician. We got rid of that. Is that
> Everday Math? I'm wondering if some of this stuff
> is elementary school specific.

There are only about three approved math systems in FCPS elementary schools. If your elementary student has a textbook then you do NOT have Everyday Math because in that system children are to "discover" math and are not allowed to look ahead for a solution.

The overall Everyday program de-emphasizes standard algorithms and extensive daily practice. A sample Everyday algorithm called the “Opposite-Change Rule” says that to add 8+7, the students do not simply memorize the answer. Instead:
“If 2 is added to the 8 and 2 is also subtracted from the 7, we have (8+2) + (7-2) = 10 + 5 = 15.” (Grades K-3 Teacher’s Reference Manual, page 102)

Division is even worse, telling teachers division is too hard to teach, that many students will never learn division anyhow, and that calculators are better. In the words of the Everyday Teacher’s Reference manual, “The authors of Everyday Mathematics do not believe it is worth the time and effort to fully develop highly efficient paper-and-pencil algorithms for all possible whole number, fraction, and decimal division problems. Mastery of the intricacies of such algorithms is a huge undertaking, one that experience tells us is doomed to failure for many students. It is simply counter-productive to invest many hours of precious class time for such algorithms. The mathematical payoff is not worth the cost, particularly because quotients can be found quickly and accurately with a calculator” (page 120).

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Reston Parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:54PM

booya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLPP,
> Exactly what would make me a good parent? Lying?
> Putting on airs? Perhaps posting on this message
> board for months? Like I said, my children have
> all they need to succeed. I don't need 700
> additional students (most of whom don't want to be
> there) to give my children any more than they
> already have.
>
> If they don't WANT to be there, why on earth would
> I want them there? To create another distraction?
> There's already enough students in high school
> that don't want to be there.


booya,

Why you use the word 'there'? Are you really a SL parent??

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:57PM

Dogwood is Reston, even Stratton Wood is Reston. Facts, please.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought there were a lot of drop-outs and
> slackers in our area? Any comment on the McLean
> gang and the relative safety there?
>
> Dogwood is much closer to the Floris area than it
> is to my house. Do you think that crime stops at
> Reston's edge?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME Mom ()
Date: January 04, 2008 01:58PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just one more point, Navy Parent. Two years ago,
> a Hendon student was murdered in a drive-by gang
> shooting, in a neighborhood very near Herndon HS.
> Her boyfriend was also injured in the attack. Yet
> many on this site have said they would willingly
> send their children to Herndon, as recently as
> this morning.
>
> Why does anything negative that happens in Reston
> accrue to South Lakes HS, while similar or worse
> events in Herndon do not prompt the same reaction
> about HHS? Just wondering.


Yeah, notsomuch with Herndon, either. I think I'd actually prefer South Lakes over Herndon.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:02PM

Floris, the point is that what happened there is no more likely to happen in my neighborhood than it is in yours. I am not trying to say that those areas aren't in Reston, just that geographically, they are much closer to some Floris neighborhoods than they are to mine. They are also much closer to Fox Mill Estates than they are to me.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Youarewrong ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:02PM

For your information....I do commune everyday in the dogwood area and it is consider a "red zone" and yes, it is in Reston, not in Floris...I should know, I live near by....of course, I cross the Reston pkwy and a mile later, I am safe at home.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought there were a lot of drop-outs and
> slackers in our area? Any comment on the McLean
> gang and the relative safety there?
>
> Dogwood is much closer to the Floris area than it
> is to my house. Do you think that crime stops at
> Reston's edge?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:05PM

Forum Reader, have you considered putting your knowledge to work for the County, if you don't already?

I loathe Everyday Math curriculum and also the lack of phonics at many FCPS schools. That is where all of this energy should be going next, if it isn't already.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Floris ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:07PM

Well, there are also examples that disadvantaged students do better academially in smaller schools, Stuart being one.


Restonian Wrote:
>
>
> Floris, students who are disadvantaged, in Fairfax
> County and nationwide, do better academically when
> they make up a smaller percentage of their student
> body.
>
> The ratio of students to teachers will not change,
> and when less advantaged kids make up a smaller
> part of a class, the teacher can spend more time
> and energy with each one.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: FME Mom ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:09PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought there were a lot of drop-outs and
> slackers in our area? Any comment on the McLean
> gang and the relative safety there?
>
> Dogwood is much closer to the Floris area than it
> is to my house. Do you think that crime stops at
> Reston's edge?


The stabbing proves my point about the quality of that quadrent of Reston and how at least half of the subsidized housing should be removed to revitalize the area. Glade Drive west of Reston Parkway is a disgrace, and is a blight to Reston.

It is also a completely different world from the Floris and Fox Mill areas. While it may be closer in proximity to my home from yours on the far east or north side of Reston, it does not matter as it is an incident in Reston, not Oak Hill.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:10PM

Youarewrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For your information....I do commune everyday in
> the dogwood area and it is consider a "red zone"
> and yes, it is in Reston, not in Floris...I should
> know, I live near by....of course, I cross the
> Reston pkwy and a mile later, I am safe at home.
>
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought there were a lot of drop-outs and
> > slackers in our area? Any comment on the
> McLean
> > gang and the relative safety there?
> >
> > Dogwood is much closer to the Floris area than
> it
> > is to my house. Do you think that crime stops
> at
> > Reston's edge?

Floris is on the other side of Fairfax County Pkway. It is in fact off Centreville Rd area. It is definitely not close to Dogwood. Dogwood is closer to SL than Floris is. Crime can happen anywhere unfortunately.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:23PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader:
> >
> > As for a county-wide point of view, South Lakes
> > can and should wait a year and push for a
> > county-wide high and middle school boundary
> study.
>
> Why should we wait? That makes no sense from our
> point of view. You can and should present your
> conclusion to the SB. Maybe they will listen to
> you.

Have you looked at the latest CIP? See page 15. In September 2012 with current boundaries South Lakes is projected to have 750 empty spaces; Herndon 299; Westfield 190; Oakton 80; Marshall 71; Langley 50; and Chantilly only 22 empty seats. McLean with its island near South Lakes is projected to be overcrowded by 19 and Madison by 106. Just looking at those numbers, it seems like if South Lakes is to receive more students they should come from the east.

If the goal is to bring all FCPS high schools to about 2,000 students (say a range of 1700 to 2300) then it would appear Chantilly and Westfield may become grade 7-12 secondary schools. Major redistricting would be needed.

As you recently wrote, "Redistricting happens all the time." Are you willing to get some additional ninth graders just for one year, then go through all this again during a COUNTY-WIDE redistricting?

Maybe you are willing to go through back-to-back redistricting, but I doubt many will agree.

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Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:24PM

About half a dozen years ago, FCPS approved three different math textbook series for elementary schools. Everyday Math was one of the three. Each elementary school then decided which of the three to buy. From what teachers have said, arms were occasionally twisted to encourage schools to choose Everyday Math, which was and continues to be very controversial. For more information about Everyday Math and other constructivist math programs, see

www.mathematicallycorrect.com

and, for a fascinating commentary by an exceptional FCPS middle school math teacher,

www.mathreasoning.com

> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> -----
> What is Everyday Math? I've seen that discussed
> here before but my 6th grader is doing the math
> that I learned - pre algebra, geometry, integers,
> in prparation for algebra.
>
> He did have this wacko text book in third grade
> that I complained about. It was written by a some
> social scientist or something but not a
> mathematician. We got rid of that. Is that
> Everday Math? I'm wondering if some of this stuff
> is elementary school specific.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:33PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum Reader:
> > >
> > > As for a county-wide point of view, South
> Lakes
> > > can and should wait a year and push for a
> > > county-wide high and middle school boundary
> > study.
> >
> > Why should we wait? That makes no sense from
> our
> > point of view. You can and should present your
> > conclusion to the SB. Maybe they will listen
> to
> > you.
>
> Have you looked at the latest CIP? See page 15. In
> September 2012 with current boundaries South Lakes
> is projected to have 750 empty spaces; Herndon
> 299; Westfield 190; Oakton 80; Marshall 71;
> Langley 50; and Chantilly only 22 empty seats.
> McLean with its island near South Lakes is
> projected to be overcrowded by 19 and Madison by
> 106. Just looking at those numbers, it seems like
> if South Lakes is to receive more students they
> should come from the east.
>
> If the goal is to bring all FCPS high schools to
> about 2,000 students (say a range of 1700 to 2300)
> then it would appear Chantilly and Westfield may
> become grade 7-12 secondary schools. Major
> redistricting would be needed.
>
> As you recently wrote, "Redistricting happens all
> the time." Are you willing to get some additional
> ninth graders just for one year, then go through
> all this again during a COUNTY-WIDE redistricting?
>
>
> Maybe you are willing to go through back-to-back
> redistricting, but I doubt many will agree.


If this CIP is saying SL is projected to still have 750 empty seats along with other high schools having a lower number of empty seats in 2012 then why bother with redistricting NOW? I agree that a county-wide boundary study would be most fair especially with the new Coppermine school and any other new schools opening up next year. I thought a new high school in the Oak Hill area would be nice, but wondered if that will happen. Somebody said it would not be feasible according to the SB. Just plucking a couple of communities like Floris and Fox Mill to fill SL up does not add up.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:38PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... I loathe Everyday Math curriculum and also the
> lack of phonics at many FCPS schools. That is
> where all of this energy should be going next, if
> it isn't already.

----
If you loathe Everyday math, that should be enough right there for you to question IB.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: booya ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:40PM

Reston parent,
If I said here, that would mean from where I compose and post, no? I am not there, I am here. There is where my children go to school.
And yes, I really am a SL parent, and proud of it! Which is why I find these outsiders so offensive.

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Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Date: January 04, 2008 02:41PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About half a dozen years ago, FCPS approved three
> different math textbook series for elementary
> schools. Everyday Math was one of the three.
> Each elementary school then decided which of the
> three to buy. From what teachers have said, arms
> were occasionally twisted to encourage schools to
> choose Everyday Math, which was and continues to
> be very controversial. For more information about
> Everyday Math and other constructivist math
> programs, see
>
> www.mathematicallycorrect.com
>
> and, for a fascinating commentary by an
> exceptional FCPS middle school math teacher,
>
> www.mathreasoning.com
>
>
Thanks for the info. Well, they are using Everyday Math at Hunters Woods, though it looks like the teachers are "supplementing" it and are doing drills, which I am happy about. I've been telling my son to focus on the traditional methods, since they are allowed to "choose" a method. However, I think we need to question why this was chosen? Who decides? The principal? Based on what? And how is it working out for low income or ESOL parents who can't or don't have time to help their kids through it? Probably not well--it is a much bigger time sink hole than regular math.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 02:44PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ... I loathe Everyday Math curriculum and also
> the
> > lack of phonics at many FCPS schools. That is
> > where all of this energy should be going next,
> if
> > it isn't already.
>
> ----
> If you loathe Everyday math, that should be enough
> right there for you to question IB.



Why? They are two different programs. I doubt the IB Europeans use Everyday Math. Also, it doesn't sound like elementary schools can choose it no matter what curriculum the high school has.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:45PM

navy area parent Wrote:
It is impossible for me to believe
> that EVERY South Lakes parent and student is above
> the fray. Nowhere is utopia.


There's a heck of a chasm between being above the fray, and threatening the safety of children.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:50PM

navy area parent Wrote:
South Reston has a reputation.
> Teenage gang stabbings don't help it any. You
> keep saying that Floris and FM families are
> totally unjustfied in any safety concerns, and
> that may be true, but I am trying to show you why
> they have them. Don't shoot the messenger.

Verity didn't say there is no crime in Reston. But that the neighborhood where this happened is closer to Floris and Fox Mill than it is to South Lakes.

We aren't living in an area with clearly defined physical town limits.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 02:58PM

Baffled Wrote:
> Floris is on the other side of Fairfax County
> Pkway. It is in fact off Centreville Rd area. It
> is definitely not close to Dogwood. Dogwood is
> closer to SL than Floris is. Crime can happen
> anywhere unfortunately.


The two schools are equidistant from the intersection of Marginella and Glade (South Lakes is 1/10 of a mile further.)

The areas of housing which would be moved in the current scenario are closer to that crime scene as they are east of Floris.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: youarewrong ()
Date: January 04, 2008 03:10PM

They are SEPARATED by Fairfax Co Pkwy....so crime is still in the dogwood area, aka, "red zone". My suggestion is for you to start reading the Washington Post "the extras", read the crime area report and check the streets....you are living in Utopia. Yes, I do commute EVERYDAY by Glade Drive and I can assure you of police patrols, I have witnessed it myself. BTW, I live in Reston too.


Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baffled Wrote:
> > Floris is on the other side of Fairfax County
> > Pkway. It is in fact off Centreville Rd area.
> It
> > is definitely not close to Dogwood. Dogwood is
> > closer to SL than Floris is. Crime can happen
> > anywhere unfortunately.
>
>
> The two schools are equidistant from the
> intersection of Marginella and Glade (South Lakes
> is 1/10 of a mile further.)
>
> The areas of housing which would be moved in the
> current scenario are closer to that crime scene as
> they are east of Floris.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 03:29PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader Wrote:
> > If you loathe Everyday math, that should be enough
> > right there for you to question IB.
>
> Why? They are two different programs. I doubt the
> IB Europeans use Everyday Math. Also, it doesn't
> sound like elementary schools can choose it no
> matter what curriculum the high school has.

Long, detailed story of the "new new" and "integrated" math philosophy. May I suggest that after this current issue is voted on by the School Board that we start another thread on the Math Wars? We are likely to find ourselves on the same side. In the meantime, interested readers are encouraged to read what is actually taught in roughly comparable courses.

For example, these were Woodson's summer's reading lists during the short period when had both programs. My point is not to tell you which is "better" but rather to give a small illustration of how the two courses differ. It is a matter of opinion as to which list is a "better" introduction to a course surveying literature.
English 12 AP Summer Reading: All required
* Beowulf (Seamus Heaney translation)
* Edith Hamilton’s Greek Mythology
* Bible – Genesis, Exodus, Job, Luke
English 12 IB Summer Reading: All required:
* A Thousand Cranes
* Chronicle of a Death Fortold
* The Last Honour of Katerina Blum.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 03:36PM

Forum Reader,
Agreed. Would be interesting to investigate the SOL scores for kids using everyday math vs. other methods. Since we have the school stats, and can find out who uses everyday math, this shouldn't be too hard, tedious maybe. However, as in my school, teachers may be supplementing it. This is a confounding factor.

I heard anecdotally that kids in low SE populations were passing reading SOLs because their teachers are using Phonics. On the sly, of course.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Get it right ()
Date: January 04, 2008 03:41PM

On crime in this area-


Clearly there are losers everywhere in in this world, people that have no moral fiber, no conscience. There is crime in Herndon, Centreville, Vienna, Greenbriar, FFX city, Reston, Falls Church, Tysons, McLean. Yes there was a stabbing in Reston, as there was a shooting in FFX, a gang banger from Centreville, a murder in Herndon. And while these are horrible and tragic, mostly they don't affect the random person. Random victimns of crimes in this area tend to be traffic in nature, or crimes of opportunity like not locking your car doors and getting your car burglarized.

However, the overall crime rates in FFX county are low. I read the paper and Reston District has some of the lowest crime in the county - check it out.


What we are all concerned with is
1) will my child be safe, not a victim 2) will my child get in with the wrong crowd.


We all know there are some loser element types in Stonegate. There are also some teens with values that I don't want my kids to emulate who live in Great Falls. It is up to YOU to teach your kids to think for themselves and stay away from losers of both kinds.

My kids already know about cliches like "birds of a feather" and "guilt by association."

TEACH YOUR KIDS TO HAVE VALUES AND TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ha ()
Date: January 04, 2008 03:49PM

booya = Margie = birdhater + neenhater + redistricting thread hater.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 04:23PM

Get it right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On crime in this area-
>
>
> Clearly there are losers everywhere in in this
> world, people that have no moral fiber, no
> conscience...

At least South Lakes has a good principal not some low life they move around the system. IMHO FCPS got into IB initially because it had unprofessional losers collecting paychecks working as school administrators.

Like is it REALLY? they move them around. By the way I just read some of the meeting notes from Oakton.

The moderator and staff posted my remarks in the room and on-line. The first despite squaking and denigration from a FEW in the room. Our whole room got along, was totally open to rational discussion, was geographically diverse, and exchanged information. Except for some from North Point. Hmmm. Uncivil - uncongenial - stoic - contained anger - no sympathy for the constant flux of Floris. So who exactly is the problem here? Couple of developments that we are spending millions on to keep out of various schools.

Gibson needs to show some backbone. This school system shold also stick the airport in a dead zone and pretend it's part of Loudoun. How dare they assign runways to Floris and not Poplar Tree or Lees Corner or any other school!

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Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: January 04, 2008 04:27PM

Dear South Lakes Pyramid Parent,

There are several confounding factors. Teachers who use traditional math materials on the sly (including the politically incorrect and never approved Saxon Math) even though they are supposed to use Everyday Math is one. Teachers who spend more of the school day teaching math because they have to use Everyday Math is another, which has been mentioned by a FCPS math specialist. Parents who teach their children math at home using traditional methods is another. Parents who send their children to traditional supplemental math programs, such as Kumon, is an increasingly important factor.

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader,
> Agreed. Would be interesting to investigate the
> SOL scores for kids using everyday math vs. other
> methods. Since we have the school stats, and can
> find out who uses everyday math, this shouldn't be
> too hard, tedious maybe. However, as in my school,
> teachers may be supplementing it. This is a
> confounding factor.
>
> I heard anecdotally that kids in low SE
> populations were passing reading SOLs because
> their teachers are using Phonics. On the sly, of
> course.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 04:40PM

Oh, I'd love a thread on Fuzzy Math. I was part of the experimental class for a "New Math" program in my district in California over a decade ago. Let's just say for a group of Honors/GT kids, we did remarkably badly as a group on various college placement exams -- mostly because the colleges wouldn't let use our precious TI calculators (which was the ONLY way we had been taught -- a series of keystrokes on one specific brand of calculator). Wonder how much Texas Instruments paid the school district for that kind of endorsement?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Date: January 04, 2008 04:57PM

Why don't teachers complain? Don't they have a say?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Old Timer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:06PM

navy area parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I'd love a thread on Fuzzy Math. I was part
> of the experimental class for a "New Math" program
> in my district in California over a decade ago.
> Let's just say for a group of Honors/GT kids, we
> did remarkably badly as a group on various college
> placement exams -- mostly because the colleges
> wouldn't let use our precious TI calculators
> (which was the ONLY way we had been taught -- a
> series of keystrokes on one specific brand of
> calculator). Wonder how much Texas Instruments
> paid the school district for that kind of
> endorsement?


TI probably got a lot of money. I think some educators were so enamored of the computation ability of calculators in those days. Then there was the backlash of no calculators.

In most high level math classes and others physics, chemistry, engineering mechanics, therm, etc. and any other engineering class that I took, we used calculators. There is nothing wrong with tools. But you had to know the basic underlying principal/equations/theory to compute the answer.

On the Everyday math thread, both of my kids are in high level math classes at Forest Edge and neither have Everyday math. They have text books and learn computation.

In third grade, my kids have to do 100 addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division problems, in 3 minutes for each set of problems by the end of the year. They start of with 10 minutes, then 5, until finally they get down to 3 minutes. Number facts have to be drilled, imho.

I think a lot of this is school/principal driven. Thank god for Frank Bensinger, Forest Edge Principal.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:08PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> Why don't teachers complain? Don't they have a
> say?

-----------
Teachers and staff work for FCPS. Life becomes unpleasant if they rock the boat.

The party line: Everything is wonderful; just send more money.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: BirdLover ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:10PM

Padre wrote to Booya

"Balderdash. You don't have a kid there or know (and certainly don't speak for) a single SLHS parent. tweet tweet."
_______________________________________________________________

Hey, Padre.

What was that tweet tweet stuff? Do you think that Booya person was me? Are you kidding.... don't you know my style by now? Padre, if I'm going to use a phony name (unlike BirdLover which, ofcourse, is my real name) it is very clear. I'm not obtuse when I'm playing a character. It was clear that Madre was me, correct?

Booya could never be me. I don't write like that. There is nothing humorous about these booya posts. This person isn't doing a parody or a satirical skit. Booya is serious. And, if she's attempting a little sarcasm, she's missing the boat, by a long shot.

Padre, you're worrying me. It's like you don't even know me anymore. I'm taking you to the doctor in the morning.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: Tricki ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:11PM

I know Frank Bensiger's wife. You are lucky he is at your school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: Old Timer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:13PM

Tricki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know Frank Bensiger's wife. You are lucky he is
> at your school.


Agreed!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:14PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't teachers complain? Don't they have a
> say?

in FCPS? They stack committees and enjoy educational fads. Easier to complain about SOL's and NCLB. For all you map it lovers, one of the Herndon HS talking points is overall reduced miles driven of kids on busses. guess these ninnies can't find Bowl America and Woody's Golf Range. Odd that other Bowl Americas and sites are listed on the FCPS driving directions but not those 2 which define the spots for some of the most atrocious NON_COOL county Langley bussing.

That is 14 miles one way - possibly longer than the pre South County trip for the new school board members home to Hayfield.

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Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:29PM

No wonder the Forest Edge kids have been qualifying for 7th grade Algebra 1 to a much greater extent than, for example, the kids at Sunrise Valley ES. Or, for that matter, Mantua ES and many other elementary schools with GT Centers.

Old Timer Wrote:
> On the Everyday math thread, both of my kids are
> in high level math classes at Forest Edge and
> neither have Everyday math. They have text books
> and learn computation.
>
> In third grade, my kids have to do 100 addition,
> subtraction, multiplication, and division
> problems, in 3 minutes for each set of problems by
> the end of the year. They start of with 10
> minutes, then 5, until finally they get down to 3
> minutes. Number facts have to be drilled, imho.
>
> I think a lot of this is school/principal driven.
> Thank god for Frank Bensinger, Forest Edge
> Principal.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Date: January 04, 2008 05:39PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
>
> There are several confounding factors. Teachers
> who use traditional math materials on the sly
> (including the politically incorrect and never
> approved Saxon Math) even though they are supposed
> to use Everyday Math is one. Teachers who spend
> more of the school day teaching math because they
> have to use Everyday Math is another, which has
> been mentioned by a FCPS math specialist. Parents
> who teach their children math at home using
> traditional methods is another. Parents who send
> their children to traditional supplemental math
> programs, such as Kumon, is an increasingly
> important factor.
>


Wow, you obviously know a lot about this. Is there any data we can use to approach the schools? It seems at the SB level--they probably shouldn't even be offering everyday math.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:44PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > navy area parent Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Regarding housing prices .... check Stratton
> > Woods
> > > vs. Folkstone, or Polo Fields vs. Franklin
> Farm.
> >
> > > Similar housing, dissimilar pricing. We've
> > been
> > > looking to buy a SFH for a while now and
> > anything
> > > in South Lakes pyramid is at least $50K and
> in
> > > some cases up to $100K less than its
> > counterpart
> > > in Oakton or Chantilly. At the very height
> of
> > the
> > > bubble, Stratton Woods was well under $600K
> for
> > a
> > > remodeled 4 bedroom house with a half-acre
> yard.
> >
> > > More like $500-550K. Good luck finding that
> > > anywhere else back in 2005.
> >
> > On Polo Fields - You can't blame this on just
> > South Lakes, it's also in Dogwood ES - 60+%
> FRL.
>
> When I was looking at houses in the area 4 years
> ago, Dogwood area homes were noticeably lower than
> Hunters Woods homes, which were not significantly
> lower than surrounding areas, though. Overall,
> Reston homes were a little lower than Oakton (but
> certainly not 100K), but Oakton had bigger lot
> sizes, so I thought of them as fairly equivalent.
> So, it's not South Lakes that lowers values, it
> was specific to the Dogwood area.


You apparently incorrectly associated my nom de plume with an anti-SL assertion. Please take a look at what I was responding to. I actually was pointing out to the navy area parent that one couldn't attribute to South Lakes what one could reasonably attribute to Dogwood.

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Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 05:48PM

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Fox Mill Dad = SL Troll


Yeah, I am suspicious also. I don't want to be negative or cynical, but my reaction to his post was that either it is a SL person or someone who doesn't know that much about Oakton. As a parent who has a kid there now, I am NOT so sanguine about my other kids going elsewhere. Must be nice to be so accomodating.

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Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: Old Timer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:49PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No wonder the Forest Edge kids have been
> qualifying for 7th grade Algebra 1 to a much
> greater extent than, for example, the kids at
> Sunrise Valley ES. Or, for that matter, Mantua ES
> and many other elementary schools with GT Centers.
>
>
> Old Timer Wrote:
> > On the Everyday math thread, both of my kids
> are
> > in high level math classes at Forest Edge and
> > neither have Everyday math. They have text
> books
> > and learn computation.
> >
> > In third grade, my kids have to do 100
> addition,
> > subtraction, multiplication, and division
> > problems, in 3 minutes for each set of problems
> by
> > the end of the year. They start of with 10
> > minutes, then 5, until finally they get down to
> 3
> > minutes. Number facts have to be drilled,
> imho.
> >
> > I think a lot of this is school/principal
> driven.
> > Thank god for Frank Bensinger, Forest Edge
> > Principal.


Umm, my kids aren't in the GT center. The GT center kids don't do drills, they're expected to have learned it previous to third grade. This can be a problem for kids from other schools (Aldrin, Forestville, Armstrong) who move to Forest Edge for GT center as most of the third graders in higher math groups (base school) and those in the GT center have learned add, sub, mult and division facts in 2nd grade at Forest Edge. They're reinforced by drills in third in the base school.

Flexible grouping is the reason. Kids are placed in the group (math, language arts, science, social studies) based on ability. These are flexible in nature so if a kid is doing well, aceing tests, and obviously grasping topics, but had tested poorly on placement tests in the beginning of the year, they would move up. The converse is also true.

We love flexible groupings... works especially well at schools with a diverse population so all children are challenged at an appropriate level.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting-Everyday Math
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 05:49PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear South Lakes Pyramid Parent,
> >
> > There are several confounding factors. Teachers
> > who use traditional math materials on the sly...
Is
> there any data we can use to approach the schools?
> It seems at the SB level--they probably shouldn't
> even be offering everyday math.

They put it there and some lifers like Gibson and Strauss are the worst on fads and special programs. Ask Stu -he Listens. If he had any backbone South Lkaes would not have been so underenrolled while I'm forced to pay for Westfield and Langley. Westfield is probly the most expensive construction related learning cottage ever conceived. There is NO WAY VIRGINIA will increase FCPS funding as long as this kind of BS is continued.

Every dollar spent on needless construction takes away from true facilities needs, class sizes, instruction as well as teacher's compensation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: January 04, 2008 06:17PM

new question-did anybody's tax assessment decrease last year? there were decreases in Hunter Mill -North Point area where some stuff went down like 200-300000 thousand.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 06:22PM

Old Timer,
Agreed on the flexible grouping. It's worked very well for my kids--all have done very well at Hunters Woods.

My son started GT this year in third grade. At the beginning of the year, he got a 4th grade Everyday math book. Apparently, they just "know" the 3rd grade curriculum since they are so smart. He struggled with all of the methods and concepts taught in EM. My main problem is the number of Units (one a month) and the number of unrelated topics in each unit (about 4, so one a week). Like statistics, measuring distances, addition (multiple methods), etc. Way too much to absorb, and JUST when they are getting a handle on it, they are off on another 4 unrelated topics the next month. In addition, the teachers are drilling them on multiplication facts.

And of course, there were some kids that knew these topics because of going to private schools, etc. Thank god for flexible grouping. He's doing much better now, but the I really question their judgment to teach it this way. I think it's creating way more complexity and busy work than necessary and probably making some kids feel llike they are "bad" at math, as he thought.



APorIBMom,

Do you know anything about the McDougal and Littell math books? That's what my sixth grader is using. I LOVE his math teacher.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 04, 2008 06:25PM

Want to play this game? Here goes:

http://www.viennava.gov/Town_Departments/police_crime_report.htm

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/jan/02/crime-solvers-seeks-suspects-teenage-beating/

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=85196&paper=62&cat=104

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=85459&paper=62&cat=104

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=86004&paper=62&cat=104


From: http://www.viennacitizens.com/town-of-vienna-issues/crime.html
Here are the crime statistics provided by the Vienna Police Department, for South East (SE) and South West (SW) Vienna, for September 2006 - September 2007. As a reminder, South Vienna is located south of Maple Avenue. SE and SW Vienna are separated by Desale and Center Streets. South Vienna is where most of the illegals live. The Vienna Park Apartments and Cedar Park Shopping Center are located in SE Vienna.

South Vienna Arrests (Sept. 06-07) SE SW
Arson 1 0
Vandalism 45 29
Weapons 2 4
Drugs 22 16
Rape 4 0
Auto Theft 6 4
Drunk in Public 46 16
Drunk and Disorderly 6 2
Simple/Aggravated Assault 39 27
Domestic Assault (separate from other assaults) 11 7
Grand/Petty Larceny 79 57
Burglary (break in w/intent to larceny) 10 11
Robbery (larceny w/escalating violence)

The list goes on. Who wins? Who wants to end this game?



http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL5166672.html

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 04, 2008 06:26PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > And they still don't.
>
> Are you still hung over from too much Clos du Bois
> or on a dry drunk? Or was that VaDriver?

Aren't you just the sweetest thing? Are all SL parents so kind?

And you wonder why people don't want to send their kids to South Lakes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 04, 2008 06:27PM

Here's a nicer game:

Reston Va top 100 places to live, Money Magazine:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL5166672.html

Let's keep this one going...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: January 04, 2008 06:48PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Floris, students who are disadvantaged, in Fairfax
> County and nationwide, do better academically when
> they make up a smaller percentage of their student
> body.
>
> The ratio of students to teachers will not change,
> and when less advantaged kids make up a smaller
> part of a class, the teacher can spend more time
> and energy with each one.

Restonian -

Let's not pretend that the vast majority of the less advantaged kids are in the same classes with the vast majority of the advantaged kids. It's not what's happening today nor will it be what will happen after redistricting. The same can be said about any other schools that track - including all the other HSes in the county. The only difference is that at SL, the lowest track is much bigger than at any of the other HSes in the study.

My advantaged kids (if we don't place them for AP) will be in the IB school-within-a-school, just like ALL the other advantaged kids from Fox Mill, Hunter Mill (near the ES), Forest Edge (off Ring Road), and Sunrise Valley. Other than for gym, theater, etc, the advantaged kids simply aren't today, and won't be after redistricting, in the same classes with the less advantaged kids.

Two schools held together by four walls, one roof, and extracurriculars.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 04, 2008 06:51PM

Re IB English -- This is not a survey course, and neither is the AP course noted earlier.

With IB, the point is to read several genres and various authors from around the world, and be able to analyze them and get the most out of the books. My son read the IB books listed, plus is about to read four more, for HL English, and he spends a lot of time on each of them, in class and writing short analytical essays for homework.

When his AP brother was home from college for Christmas, they had a lively conversation about the differences between IB and AP English, and my oldest son said he had to rush through so many books that it was awful. My IB son, who does not intrinsically enjoy fiction, said he DOES enjoy the IB class because you really spend a lot of time with the material and get into meaty issues. That's just their experiences, and I'm sure much of this depends on the teachers involved (both AP and IB). But it should be noted again that neither is a SURVEY course -- they are in-depth comprehension and analysis courses (both AP and IB).

I'm a product of a top-rated AP school and I had excellent teachers. So I am assuredly not against AP. But my family helped institute IB programs in South America, where my siblings went to school, and along with a great deal other IB experience I have, in my opinion IB is much better at preparing kids for college. I believe the way the courses are taught (holistic approaches, a large amount of analysis, a more global view, and honed writing and oral communication skills) are more in line with what colleges demand.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:01PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> If you loathe Everyday math, that should be enough
> right there for you to question IB.

Do you look at every issue on the planet through your prism of IB hatred? Talk about a single issue person.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:02PM

BTW: If you want to know about math at SLHS, ask Mr. Tony Sharp. He is one of the most popular teachers there. He is an IB math teacher from England (was literally a rocket scientist) and could address any math questions about IB you might have, though he may not be able to compare with AP. Also, we are going to have to work on getting a clone of Mr. Cave, the Latin teacher. There aren't enough of him to go around. And Margaret Matthews, the English Department chair. Whew, we have some work to do to clone everybody for the new kids!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:10PM

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another Fox Mill Dad = SL Troll
>
>
> Yeah, I am suspicious also.

He's the father of much younger children. He's posted here before. He does live in FME.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:11PM

Verity -
It is relevant to this conversation that, assuming these kids are still in school (a long shot I admit), they'd be at SL not at either Westfield (from Floris) or at Oakton (from Fox Mill).

Note, when I was a kid, I went to a fancy suburban school with McLean/Langley-like demographics. Even in that environment, it was certainly relevant to my health that there were a small number of rich young junior Mafiosos at the school whose parents were rich old senior ones. Given that those kinds of issues show up at the "nicest" schools, what sane person wouldn't be concerned about the much larger number and percentage of kids in SL with at least as significant background problems?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris, the point is that what happened there is
> no more likely to happen in my neighborhood than
> it is in yours. I am not trying to say that those
> areas aren't in Reston, just that geographically,
> they are much closer to some Floris neighborhoods
> than they are to mine. They are also much closer
> to Fox Mill Estates than they are to me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:11PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... neither is a SURVEY course -- they are in-depth
> comprehension and analysis courses (both AP and
> IB).
>
I won't bore you all with long descriptions, but you can look up "College Board Advanced Placement" in your search engine, then read the details about any course in which you are interested. In general, AP courses are aligned with what most American colleges expect of college freshmen. Top colleges expect more; community colleges generally expect less.

[Speaking not for colleges or English teachers or even my children, but only for myself, I love to read but I hate analyzing literature to death. But that's just me.]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:19PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > word Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > And they still don't.
> >
> > Are you still hung over from too much Clos du
> Bois
> > or on a dry drunk? Or was that VaDriver?
>
> Aren't you just the sweetest thing? Are all SL
> parents so kind?
>
> And you wonder why people don't want to send their
> kids to South Lakes.

The ever vigilant Neenster - cherry-picking and ignoring all of the awful things said by the provocateur. But, you are a provocateur as well, so that doesn't surprise.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:20PM

FR: Ok. AP is a survey course, then. But IB English is not. Surveys are not what colleges want from kids. Understanding, comprehension, ability to analyze and write is. And I'd have to argue that colleges are not very happy with what they're getting vis-a-vis language arts from their incoming freshmen.

http://xpress.sfsu.edu/archives/news/005097.html

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:21PM

Westfield, I think we can at least agree that we are all concerned about our kids:)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: truthbetold ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:26PM

PS: Can we clone Bensinger while we're at it? My kids and I sure benefited from his leadership at FEES.

Well, the Clos du Bois is calling. TTFN.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: ME22222 ()
Date: January 04, 2008 07:48PM

I am in 8th grade. I want you to know me! I want to stay where I am. I have just finally got to have really good friends. I dont want to move. I love my friends and I have worked hard to have them like me. When I was little I didnt think anyone liked me, and now they do. I have gotten to know them for years. I am so so so sad and I dont know what I will do. Everyone says oh you will make new friends and stuff but you know what, I have been making new friends for ever. They like me! I like them! THIS HURTS LIKE SH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont you get it? Why are you doing this???????????

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 08:29PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FR: Ok. AP is a survey course, then. But IB
> English is not. Surveys are not what colleges want
> from kids. Understanding, comprehension, ability
> to analyze and write is. And I'd have to argue
> that colleges are not very happy with what they're
> getting vis-a-vis language arts from their
> incoming freshmen.
>
> http://xpress.sfsu.edu/archives/news/005097.html

----
I was not the poster who referred to either IB HL English or AP English Lit as survey courses. [If anyone asks again about what is taught in a specific AP course I will quote a long excerpt about it, but I suggest you look it up yourself so we don't have to bore everyone else.]

The California colleges mentioned in the article you cited are not happy with quality of the average California public high school grad.

[Can we take a minute to agree we are all happier with FCPS, despite its many faults?]

In any case, we are talking about IB HL English and AP English students, both of whom receive better-than-average preparation for college Freshman English.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 08:49PM

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, there are also examples that disadvantaged
> students do better academially in smaller schools,
> Stuart being one.
>

Anecdote is still not the plural of data.

In most cases, students from low income families perform better when they make up a smaller percentage of a student body than a larger percentage.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 08:55PM

FME Mom Wrote:

>
>
> It is also a completely different world from the
> Floris and Fox Mill areas. While it may be closer
> in proximity to my home from yours on the far east
> or north side of Reston, it does not matter as it
> is an incident in Reston, not Oak Hill.


Why does it matter? There are no Reston Police force Oak Hill police forces doing a better or worse job. There are no fences or moats surrounding Reston or Oak Hill. This is not a place where one town ends, then there's a gap, and then the next town begins. You know this.

You aren't removed from that location with an Oak Hill address any more than I am with my Reston one, and in FME your house is physically closer to that intersection than mine is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: navy area parent ()
Date: January 04, 2008 08:57PM

Restonian Wrote:
> Anecdote is still not the plural of data.
>

You keep writing this. To borrow from The Princess Bride: I do not think it means what you think it means. I think the term is actually "The plural of anecdote is not data." Read carefully and you'll see it makes much more sense that way.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 09:03PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forum Reader,
> I heard anecdotally that kids in low SE
> populations were passing reading SOLs because
> their teachers are using Phonics. On the sly, of
> course.


HWES has officially used phonics for any child needing reading remediation since my high schooler was in kindergarten there. It's not the only curriculum, but I haven't encountered any primary teacher who doesn't use phonics in the classroom.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: January 04, 2008 09:07PM

youarewrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are SEPARATED by Fairfax Co Pkwy....so crime
> is still in the dogwood area, aka, "red zone". > >

....and South Lakes is separated from that intersection by Reston Parkway and then two miles of distance.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Forum Reader ()
Date: January 04, 2008 09:08PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, there are also examples that
> disadvantaged
> > students do better academially in smaller
> schools,
> > Stuart being one.
> >
>
> Anecdote is still not the plural of data.
>
> In most cases, students from low income families
> perform better when they make up a smaller
> percentage of a student body than a larger
> percentage.

------
How about the US Department of Education website?
"Among current research findings:
* Large high schools, particularly those serving low-income students, have disproportionately lower achievement and higher incidences of violence than smaller schools serving similar student populations.
* In small schools, students tend to be more satisfied, more academically productive, more likely to participate in school activities, better behaved, and less likely to drop out than students in large schools."

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Baffled ()
Date: January 04, 2008 09:12PM

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Floris Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Well, there are also examples that
> > disadvantaged
> > > students do better academially in smaller
> > schools,
> > > Stuart being one.
> > >
> >
> > Anecdote is still not the plural of data.
> >
> > In most cases, students from low income
> families
> > perform better when they make up a smaller
> > percentage of a student body than a larger
> > percentage.
>
> ------
> How about the US Department of Education website?
> "Among current research findings:
> * Large high schools, particularly those
> serving low-income students, have
> disproportionately lower achievement and higher
> incidences of violence than smaller schools
> serving similar student populations.
> * In small schools, students tend to be
> more satisfied, more academically productive, more
> likely to participate in school activities, better
> behaved, and less likely to drop out than students
> in large schools."


That is interesting. Aren't there high schools at about the same size of SL around here in FX County?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Date: January 04, 2008 09:58PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Forum Reader,
> > I heard anecdotally that kids in low SE
> > populations were passing reading SOLs because
> > their teachers are using Phonics. On the sly,
> of
> > course.
>
>
> HWES has officially used phonics for any child
> needing reading remediation since my high schooler
> was in kindergarten there. It's not the only
> curriculum, but I haven't encountered any primary
> teacher who doesn't use phonics in the classroom.


My third grader wasn't getting phonics and it showed. I finally got Hooked on Phonics and "cured" him in a very short time.

Also, if they use Phonics for remediation, doesn't it occur to them that it might benefit all kids?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 04, 2008 11:06PM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My third grader wasn't getting phonics and it
> showed. I finally got Hooked on Phonics and
> "cured" him in a very short time.
>
> Also, if they use Phonics for remediation, doesn't
> it occur to them that it might benefit all kids?

It's because of "whole language", a reading educational fad that began in Cali., thus the problems seen in the CA universities. It was formally adopted in FFX in the '80s and is still prevalent in FFX.

In 1994 a 7th grade teacher had to cover the windows in the door to his class, so that the principal wouldn't give him grief for using phonics and showing kids how to diagram sentences.

Many FFX English/reading teachers still use whole language methods.

Too many also act as if they are teaching literature at a small liberal arts college instead of grammar and vocabulary at a high school.

I see it every year in the essays written by FFX college applicants. Its a real shame.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 04, 2008 11:46PM

truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's get one thing straight. Reston is not a
> town.

Actually, because Reston has had fixed defined boundaries since 1965 and has a population of over 65,000, most demographers and political scientists specializing in local government categorize Reston as a city with many municipal powers exercised by RA instead of a municipal corporation with a charter issued by the state legislature.

That can and should be changed.

> It is a big neighborhood association without
> much clout in the county structure.

RA is one of the oldest and biggest hoas in the country with a budget bigger than many cities (never mind towns). Only because of the megalomania of County pols and their avarice for its tax receipts does Reston not have the city charter its population justified two decades ago.

> Not much different than "Oak Hill" (a madeup name people
> began using so they wouldn't be tied to "Herndon,"
> god forbid -- and the post office came years later
> after people started arbitrarily putting "Oak
> Hill" next to "20171") or "Fox Mill" or "Bradbury
> Farms."

While sequence of events is accurately recounted, Oak Hill never had boundaries recognized by anybody and never had an hoa or any other community institution or organization, Thus Oak Hill is just a mailing address like Sterling or Sugarland Run and is nothing like Reston.

> As for the assertions here that people flew out of
> Reston because South Lakes sucked, I'd like to see
> some factual evidence of that! You won't find it.

I could give you the names of many, many families who sadly moved out of Reston to get away from South Lakes.

> I do know that people moved INTO Reston because it
> offers terrific work-life balance opportunities,
> the town center, a huge array of housing and
> activity options, wonderful neighborhoods,
> beautiful green spaces and amenities, a terrific
> school (top 3% in the country), and a robust
> community spirit.

True that. Sadly, South Lakes has been a drag on Reston.

> And I challenge anyone to come up with property
> value (sold house prices) information that
> demonstrates comparable houses in Reston sell for
> less! Just try it.

Agreed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: January 05, 2008 12:01AM

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think a lot of this is school/principal driven.
> Thank god for Frank Bensinger, Forest Edge
> Principal.

Having a principal you like is great and I envy you. I liked Mrs. Bradley when she was at Terraset and Ms. Jackson at Hughes.

I'm curious though about Forest Edge's low tests results compared to other schools in FFX with similar demographics.

What does Bensinger say about that and what is he doing to help kids who are falling behind?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2008 12:02AM by Thomas More.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Another Fox Mill Dad ()
Date: January 05, 2008 12:33AM

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another Fox Mill Dad = SL Troll
>
>
> Yeah, I am suspicious also. I don't want to be
> negative or cynical, but my reaction to his post
> was that either it is a SL person or someone who
> doesn't know that much about Oakton. As a parent
> who has a kid there now, I am NOT so sanguine
> about my other kids going elsewhere. Must be nice
> to be so accomodating.


I am who I say I am. I saw word's post and given the source considered it a compliment.

You're right, I don't know that much about Oakton. Don't know that much about SL for that matter but I'm sure none of you do either. My kids are in the JI program at Fox Mill ES. As a supporting anecdote, I was at the Fox Mill ES PTA meeting about a year ago Stu and some other SB people first discussed redistricting. The highlight of this meeting was when some lady w/FCPS (who was she anyway?) stood up at the end and proclaimed that maybe everone at SL had a "bad day" on test day. If you weren't there howling with everyone else I'm sure you heard about it.

I left that meeting convinced I'd never want to send my kids to SL. If you re-read my post maybe you'll get my point. It wasn't that I really want to send my kids to SL now, it's that you (opponents of RD) really blew it with everyone who was even remotely on the fence or leaning your way on it as I was. You were disorganized, your tactics were reprehensible and now your all crying like babies because you didn't get your way. I'm sympathetic to RD opponents that refrained from these tactics and may have to deal with having kids at SL and Oakton simultaneously or are doing this every year as floris seems to but as far as I'm concerned the rest of you got what you deserve.

Or I could just be a SL troll.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 12:41AM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > You lied. Again.
>
> In the words of the late, great Ronald Reagan,
> 'there you go again' accusing anyone who disagrees
> with you of lying. But I must be dreaming,
> because you said you never do that.

Please then explain your continued refusal to post any evidence of what you say. Surely you know how to post links. Don't you?

Please post evidence that poor kids do better in schools where their populations are smaller. OR stop claiming it to be true, and not expecting to be called on it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 12:50AM

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Verity,
>
> This is a very unfair statement. I have asked the
> SB staff on a number of occaisions whether more or
> less money is spend at SL per student. They have
> repeatly stated that SL gets the same or more
> money and services as any other HS in the county.
> They did indicate that some electives may not be
> available due to lack of interest and or not
> enough children to justify the expense of them.
> They mentioned classes like advanced photography
> etc.

EVERY single one of the smaller schools in FCPS has these same problems, including Marshall and Madison. Boo-hoo that South Lakes kids can't have every elective that they want. No student in FCPS can. There is NO school in FCPS that offers every elective that every student wants. Not having advanced guitar lessons, or advanced photography, or jewelry making, are not a reason for forcing the disruption of thousands of students.

Does anyone think we'll ever be told the REAL reason for this boundary change at South Lakes, yet no such change at Falls Church or Mt. Vernon or Marshall or any of the other under enrolled schools? Why South Lakes? Because they wasted $60 million on renovations at a school no one wants to attend? Or to help Stu's politic future by raising scores at South Lakes with kids outside of Reston? Something else? I would love to hear what others think is the REAL reason that this is happening.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 01:04AM

booya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian,
> Please don't put words in my mouth, and I won't
> put any in yours. I'm speaking for the majority
> of the SL parents who have had enough of this
> slanderous and malicious verbage posted about our
> school.
>
> Its fine with me if the redistricted folks don't
> want to come to SL. I could really care less. My
> children have everything they need. To have these
> outsiders come in will only disrupt what I
> percieve to be a great school.
>
> Not seeking retribution, but vengeance.

What might that mean? How do you intend to do that?

Why do I suspect that you and our dear Restonian are old friends, and current enemies?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 01:08AM

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not saying everyone one will seek retribution,
> but there are some out there that will. Provding
> addtional police presence would be the prudent
> thing to do.

For the school board? After their vote in February, I would imagine they will have police protection.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 01:11AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Booya,
> Seriously, I cannot believe you are a parent, at
> least not a good one, otherwise you would not be
> making statements that would hurt your child or
> anyone else's.
>
> When my daughter was in sixth grade and going to
> Hughes and all of her friends were going to
> Carson, her friends were worried for her, because
> of what they had heard from their parents. One of
> her friend's mom commended me for being so
> confident about Hughes. She said that this had a
> big effect on my daughter--apparently she
> displayed the same confidence at going to Hughes.
> (She now laughs at what they told her about
> Hughes--it was blatantly untrue.)
>
> Kids will listen to their parents, either way. If
> parents project fear and loathing of SL, their
> kids will do the same. If parents put a positive
> spin on it, their kids will too.
>
> Food for thought.

REally? SLVerity claims otherwise and says that girls think for themselves and the kids make their own decisions about schools, without parental influence or peer pressure.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 01:13AM

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's get real - No one could possibly be more
> self-centered than the SL crowd.

You think that it's self centered to force your children go to South Lakes so that their kids can take guitar lessons and jewelry making?

Yeah, me too.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 01:17AM

samgee Wrote:

>
> Unfortunately, the SB has dodged the question of
> "grandfathering" so
> there is the distinct possiblity that only current
> HS seniors will stay put at Oakton. I dont think
> that the SB has gone through so much trouble to
> ensnare only eight-graders.

Correct. They aren't going to wait for 4 years to fully fill South Lakes. No way. At the final vote, in February, the will 'suddenly' realize they need to fill it more quickly and vote accordingly.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: January 05, 2008 01:21AM

South Lakes Pyramid parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Samgee, get your facts straight. The recommended
> proposal posted on fcps.edu includes
> grandfathering and clearly states that only rising
> ninth graders will go.

Get YOUR facts straight, that has not yet been voted on by the school board. It won't happen like that because having only a handful of 9th graders at SL next year will do nothing for the school. By the vote in February they will know that the majority of those redistricted will be going to private school or pupil placing at AP schools. It won't look good when only a few 9th graders walk into SL in September. The SB will want it to appear that their plan has worked so they will need to send more than just 9th graders.

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