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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Landlord ()
Date: December 29, 2007 09:34PM

What's the big deal with home ownership anyway? The tax deduction is, and always has been, a stupid reason to pay thousands in interest every year....why pay 10 bucks to write off 2 bucks?

Appreciation is tenuous at best. See all the FOR SALE signs? Watch the County site to see what they went for...IF they went at all.

NONE of this is worth the aggravation of school redistricting.

Just rent, and if/when the school boundaries change...MOVE!

As an added bonus, when the shit that has been building up within youselves for oh so many years finally erupts....just call the landlord and tell him to send a plumber...it's included in your rent, as are most household repairs!

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Re: high school redistricting-High Needs Kids
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: December 29, 2007 09:38PM

Restonian,

Black students at Mt. Vernon consistently have higher SAT scores than Black students at West Potomac HS, even though Mt. Vernon HS has a higher percentage of "high needs" students than West Potomac HS. Alexandria parents say that Black students in these two schools have comparable socioeconomic characteristics, so family background doesn't appear to explain this difference in academic achievement. They add that Mt. Vernon HS is known for focusing on its weak students, while West Potomac HS is known for doing more for its stronger students. And indeed, the White students at West Potomac HS have higher SAT scores than the White students at Mt. Vernon HS. Similarly, "high needs" students who attend KIPP schools do very well, even though KIPP schools are usually filled solely or almost entirely with high needs students.

I don't think high needs students necessarily do better if they constitute a smaller percentage of a school's total population.

Restonian Wrote:

Those high needs kids will do better when they make up a smaller percentage of the student body.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Samgee ()
Date: December 29, 2007 09:50PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> >
> > As long as there are no "islands" made by
> pulling
> > out high needs ESes feeding South Lakes,
> there's
> > not much that can be done to affect the general
> SL
> > demographics. The high needs areas are all
> fairly
> > close to SL and far from the other high
> schools.
> >
> > Sure, you can add another school or school and
> a
> > half that look just like Sunrise Valley - Fox
> > Mill, whatever Northeast Floris is, ..., to
> make
> > the kids/parents at Sunrise happier and the top
> > line numbers (SATs, etc.) look better, but
> there
> > are simply about 500 or so kids at South Lakes
> > that are very high needs, fairly transient, etc
> > who are not going away. This redistricting
> simply
> > won't help them, and may even make it worse as
> the
> > school pays less attention to them given the
> > demands of new large group of extremely unhappy
> > advantaged parents in the administration's
> face.
>
> Your information is interesting and well
> presented. Your conclusion is faulty. Those high
> needs kids will do better when they make up a
> smaller percentage of the student body.


And why is that?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: By The Way ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:00PM

You DO NOT have to QUOTE the entire novel-lenghth drivel posted by the twit that you would like to respond to!

A simple Hey, Neen....or Hey Thomas More, etc WOULD DO! The intended target should remember what they said....and if they don't, they can scroll back and have a look-see.

This thread would "only" be about 20 pages if not for such nonsense!

Please remember that Cary, our wonderful and gracious host, does not have unlimited bandwidth!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLgirl917 ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:02PM

jus' wanna say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLgirl917,
>
> I have nothing at all to do with this controversy,
> but I just wanted to say that your writing is
> SUPERB. Kudos to you and to the South Lakes
> Creative Writing teachers!
>
> You write much better than most of the adults
> here, myself included. And certainly better than
> most of their stupid ass kids, most of whom
> probably couldn't construct a coherent sentence if
> their ipods depended on it!
>
> You're living proof that smart kids can excel
> anywhere*!
>
> (* not dissing SL, I know nothing about the school
> other than the highly suspect crap I've read here)

Thanks!!! Your compliment means a lot to me. I'm glad to be of some help to people.

I really like it at South Lakes and I'm glad that I went there, but I also think that there could be some improvements with more students. For one thing, some of our extra-curricular activities could get a boost from having more students. At the same time, I am trying to stay out of controversy.

Just a question: I've been reading the posts about the more affluent members of the community leaving, but aren't other people going to move in to these houses? When families new to the area come in, just how much about this redistricting are they going to know about? Also, wouldn't the houses belonging to the people who want to leave need to be sold before they can move into a house in another school district?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:22PM

Don't Be Fooled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> They have said that only current 8th graders
> will begin South Lakes next fall.
>
> They always say during the town meetings and
> public hearings that a boundary change will only
> affect the next incoming class, that no students
> will have to transfer. That supresses the number
> of people communicating to the School Board and
> the BOS because the change is no longer an issue
> for their family.
>
> But when the actual vote happens, this will be
> ammended to move all students except rising
> seniors. They will not leave 700-900 empty seats
> to be filled over 4 years. They will move the most
> students possible right away.
>
> They've done this before, they will do it again.

You are correct. The school board does change things during the final vote. Of course they hope to fill South Lakes as soon as possible.

Anyone who cares needs to make sure they are addressing the school board AND the board of supervisors, right up to the final votes.

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Re: high school redistricting-High Needs Kids
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:31PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian,
>
> Black students at Mt. Vernon consistently have
> higher SAT scores than Black students at West
> Potomac HS, even though Mt. Vernon HS has a higher
> percentage of "high needs" students than West
> Potomac HS. Alexandria parents say that Black
> students in these two schools have comparable
> socioeconomic characteristics, so family
> background doesn't appear to explain this
> difference in academic achievement. They add that
> Mt. Vernon HS is known for focusing on its weak
> students, while West Potomac HS is known for doing
> more for its stronger students. And indeed, the
> White students at West Potomac HS have higher SAT
> scores than the White students at Mt. Vernon HS.
> Similarly, "high needs" students who attend KIPP
> schools do very well, even though KIPP schools are
> usually filled solely or almost entirely with high
> needs students.
>
> I don't think high needs students necessarily do
> better if they constitute a smaller percentage of
> a school's total population.
>
> Restonian Wrote:
>
> Those high needs kids will do better when they
> make up a smaller percentage of the student body.


Anecdote is not the plural of data.

In most cases students on FRL do better when they are a smaller percentage of the student body.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:33PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Parent from Fox Mill Estates,
>
> The FCPS web site now has SAT scores by race for
> students in each high school. If you look at the
> average SAT scores of White students at South
> Lakes and Oakton HS, you will find that they are
> almost identical. About 1165.
>
> The main difference between these two schools
> seems to be in the SAT scores of the other types
> of student subgroups. Asians at Oakton have
> higher SAT scores (about 1165) than at South Lakes
> (about 1050). Blacks at Oakton have higher SAT
> scores (about 950) than at South Lakes (911).
> Ditto for Hispanics (1075 vs. 1009). Even
> learning disabled and students on free meals have
> higher scores at Oakton HS than at South Lakes.
>
>
So, only minorities at South Lakes have lower scores than they have Oakton and Madison. Why is that? The differences between Hispanics at South Lakes and at Oakton are significant. Ditto Blacks and LD students. What are minorities and LD students at South Lakes not getting that minorities at other schools receive? What's the difference?

Are you saying that only parents of minorities need to be concerned about South Lakes? Asian parents might have a concern, since their SAT scores vary significantly, 115 points. Hispanic and Black parents also have cause for concern, but white parents shouldn't worry about their children attending South Lakes?

Ummmmmm.............

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:37PM

Another Lurker said:
>>>But then, from a management perspective, this whole discussion has been mismanaged so badly that it's not even funny...<<<

I think EVERYONE can agree with that. They couldn't have done this worse if they had set out to screw it up while alienating the MOST people.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Curious ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:41PM

SLgirl917

I think the doomsday scenario's concerning everybody selling their homes is far fetched. I personally can't see a material amount moving..even a 10% loss is only 70 kids and that would be a lot of "for sale" signs. The impact of student out placement could contribute though. One strong thing in favor of SLHS is the location, the Dulles tollway is a hot growth area and will continue to get hotter, the rail will also help.

I think that after students attend South Lakes through December of their first year that everyone will realize that it is a very normal environment and eventually you will see pride develop. The "news" will turn positive and after the school is full, the South Lakes SAT scores (everyone watches these) will climb solidly into the top half of Fairfax County averages.

Another thing people don't realize is that the incoming parents will have a very strong voice concerning the direction of the school. If the incoming parents combine with the group (PTSA?) that currently exists within South Lakes, they will be heard on issues. It's one thing to fight redistricting but to ignore parental concern at their existing school would be a huge blunder.

It wasn't that many years ago that South Lakes was a respected school...it's funny that people tell me that OAkton used to be know as a druggie school once upon a time.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:41PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Madre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Never have I seen such LIARS as the South Lakes
> > parents at this board.
> >
> > NEVER....
> >
> >
> > It is sickening.
>
> I see that Madre has adopted the 'Neensian' tactic
> of calling anyone who doesn't agree with her POV a
> liar. Not a very convincing argument.

Thanks for thinking of me, but I've never called anyone a liar. I post the facts, if it makes you a liar, that's not my problem, but your's.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:49PM

Westfield dad said:
>>>>Below, I adjust the high impact numbers for the schools with GT centers by assuming 20% of the kids are from the base school and assume 100% of the GT kids are English speakers, not on FRL, and don't move (reasonable assumptions given the demographics of GT kids). AdjHI = HI * (100 * (1/(100 - (%GT * .8))))<<<

That is NOT the case since GT centers were expanded from 4.5% to 14%. Many of the current GT students do NOT speak English and many need remedial help in English and/or math. Many of them are also now FRL. The GT office gets most of their funding through their 'Young Scholars" program which is designed to place more Blacks, Hispanics, and children in poverty, into GT centers. The population at GT centers has changed dramatically over the last 10 to 15 years. Every GT center has remedial classes to help children who are 'potentially gifted' but have not yet received their gifts.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: nope ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:52PM

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't Be Fooled Wrote Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >> Not picking a fight, just curious: can you
> cite
> > a case where they've done this?
> >
> > When there was a redistricting for the Rachel
> > Carson opening, staff said that all middle
> school
> > rising 8th graders could complete middle school
> > where they started. When the school board
> voted,
> > they moved rising 7th and 8th graders to
> Carson.
>
>
>
> I had heard this was because people WANTED to move
> to Rachel Carson. But maybe I heard incorrectly.
>
> Interestingly, I've heard that a large faction of
> Navy that are to be moved from Chantilly are
> THRILLED to be going to Oakton. They just don't
> happen to post here.
>
> So it's not all about how people don't want change
> and don't want their kids moved, they don't want
> them moved to South Lakes.

You have your information about Navy parents being Thrilled to be going to Oakton. 3/4 of our neighborhood has signed a petition to keep our children at CHS. The other parents are predominantly parents of very young children and do not know better nor have experienced the hellacious daily drive their children will endure nor do they have any experience of the how much earlier their children will have to wake in order to catch the bus. Leave Navy where it is and give them the what they want.................TO STAY AT NAVY!

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:55PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldDad Wrote:
> >
> > As long as there are no "islands" made by
> pulling
> > out high needs ESes feeding South Lakes,
> there's
> > not much that can be done to affect the general
> SL
> > demographics. The high needs areas are all
> fairly
> > close to SL and far from the other high
> schools.
> >
> > Sure, you can add another school or school and
> a
> > half that look just like Sunrise Valley - Fox
> > Mill, whatever Northeast Floris is, ..., to
> make
> > the kids/parents at Sunrise happier and the top
> > line numbers (SATs, etc.) look better, but
> there
> > are simply about 500 or so kids at South Lakes
> > that are very high needs, fairly transient, etc
> > who are not going away. This redistricting
> simply
> > won't help them, and may even make it worse as
> the
> > school pays less attention to them given the
> > demands of new large group of extremely unhappy
> > advantaged parents in the administration's
> face.
>
> Your information is interesting and well
> presented. Your conclusion is faulty. Those high
> needs kids will do better when they make up a
> smaller percentage of the student body.


I think both of us are asserting here...

I'm very skeptical that the boundary change will make a bit of difference to the 500. Just what is it that will bring them along with the added 700 who won't be in any of their classes except for gym, theater, or band? Were we talking about adding some additional middle/upper middle kids to a normal distribution from lower through middle to upper, I might agree with you, but we're talking about essentially two distributions held together by the walls of a school and its athletic teams. The lower distribution - the kids from one parent households, not a book in sight, little-to-no English, etc., needs some real intervention to move them along, keep them in school, etc.

I really doubt that adding a bunch of upper middle class students to the IB school-within-a-school - which is what we are really talking about here - won't do anything for the 500 unless the plan is for the new kids to be half-day tutors to get their IB community involvement hours.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 10:55PM

Westfield Dad said:
>>>ure, you can add another school or school and a half that look just like Sunrise Valley - Fox Mill, whatever Northeast Floris is, ..., to make the kids/parents at Sunrise happier and the top line numbers (SATs, etc.) look better, but there are simply about 500 or so kids at South Lakes that are very high needs, fairly transient, etc who are not going away. This redistricting simply won't help them, and may even make it worse as the school pays less attention to them given the demands of new large group of extremely unhappy advantaged parents in the administration's face.<<<

B-I-N-G-O

Those kids on the bottom will get even less, they can be ignored more easily if the population of South Lakes increases with lots of high preforming kids. Once Stu Gibson achieves his over arching goal of eliminating SOL's and NCLB, FCPS can totally ignore those students. When Stu gets rid of NCLB we'll never know that those students are still failing and the school board need never address their needs.

Oh Happy Day.............

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:01PM

>>>>Those high needs kids will do better when they make up a smaller percentage of the student body.<<<<

How do we know that? Controlling by income, please demonstrate that is true.

Overall school stats will improve, but please tell us how that will help low performing students, those NOT in the IB program.

Will it improve the education that they receive in preparation for high school? Or something else?

Thank you.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:05PM

Neen -
Simply basing outcome on the one dimension of ethnicity is simply the wrong thing to do here. If you look at the data I compiled at the ES level, there's a huge difference in the socioeconomic backgrounds of the Asian, Hispanic, and Black kids between Oakton feeders and SL feeders. At Oakton, other than Mosby Woods, all of the kids of whatever ethnicity are advantaged kids, at South Lakes, other than at Sunrise, a fairly high percentage are disadvantaged, and at Dogwood, other than the Polo Fields kids (Dogwood west of Fairfax Cty Pkwy), all are disadvantaged.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Are you saying that only parents of minorities
> need to be concerned about South Lakes? Asian
> parents might have a concern, since their SAT
> scores vary significantly, 115 points. Hispanic
> and Black parents also have cause for concern, but
> white parents shouldn't worry about their children
> attending South Lakes?
>
> Ummmmmm.............

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:09PM

unpleasant_facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Curious,
> the developers are going to benifit as all
> families with school going kids have to move now.
> The madison island has a upper middle class
> demographic. These folks can afford to move and
> will move. These folks are not going to send their
> kids to failing schools. The demand for housing in
> the other untouched school districts will grow.

How does that help developers of new housing? Developers have nothing to do with established neighborhoods.

Madison Island people won't have to move, they have the money to put their children in private schools, as do many of the Reston families with children of high school age.

I agree that families in Floris and Fox Mill and some in the island will move, but I don't see how that helps developers. Only a small minority of those moving families will have new homes built for them. The majority will move to existing homes in Vienna, Oakton, and Herndon.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:11PM

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen -
> Simply basing outcome on the one dimension of
> ethnicity is simply the wrong thing to do here.
> If you look at the data I compiled at the ES
> level, there's a huge difference in the
> socioeconomic backgrounds of the Asian, Hispanic,
> and Black kids between Oakton feeders and SL
> feeders. At Oakton, other than Mosby Woods, all
> of the kids of whatever ethnicity are advantaged
> kids, at South Lakes, other than at Sunrise, a
> fairly high percentage are disadvantaged, and at
> Dogwood, other than the Polo Fields kids (Dogwood
> west of Fairfax Cty Pkwy), all are disadvantaged.
>
So the problem isn't race, it's income. Too bad that FCPS doesn't care about that. Race matters, income doesn't. Sorry. :(

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:13PM

Neen Wrote:

> So, only minorities at South Lakes have lower
> scores than they have Oakton and Madison. Why is
> that? The differences between Hispanics at South
> Lakes and at Oakton are significant. Ditto Blacks
> and LD students. What are minorities and LD
> students at South Lakes not getting that
> minorities at other schools receive? What's the
> difference?
>
I'm saying that the percentage of FRL at Oakton is 8%, while South Lakes is 33%. Students who receive FRL do much better when they are a smaller percentage of a student body.

Ummm...you know that already.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:15PM

>>>I had heard this was because people WANTED to move
> to Rachel Carson. But maybe I heard incorrectly.
>
> Interestingly, I've heard that a large faction of
> Navy that are to be moved from Chantilly are
> THRILLED to be going to Oakton. They just don't
> happen to post here.<<<

Oh my gosh, that is SO wrong. GT center parents definitely did NOT want to be forced to attend Rachel Carson.

The vast majority of Navy parents would prefer to remain at the high school closer to where they live, Chantilly. Why wouldn't they want to remain at the closest high school?

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:17PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Your information is interesting and well
> presented. Your conclusion is faulty. Those high
> needs kids will do better when they make up a
> smaller percentage of the student body.

Yes, Westfield Dad. That is why the Mosby Woods kids do better at Oakton. I would like to see the same for the disadvantaged kids in Reston.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:18PM

>>>Students who receive FRL do much better when they are a smaller percentage of a student body.<<<

Please explain WHY that would happen. Because there is more focus on the needs of a smaller minority? Or something else? Please tell us how the low performing students are aided by being a smaller minority within a school.

Thanks.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: grandfathering ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:19PM

All should be concerned about grandfathering and what it will look like for real and not false promises from the board. FCPS is facing a huge budget cut. Services that we are used to, will not be provided next year. If they do grandfather all current high school students, the county will have to pay for double transportation for the next four years. Under this scenario, my neighborood will have two buses coming through to take the students to both CHS and OHS. That is is not cost effective in these times. The board has behaved poorly for this entire process. They have ignored the voice of the majority to step back and rethink this whole process. Their sleazy behavior and greasing of political palms has been evident since the first meeting....not including Langley or Madison. Do not be fooled into a false sense of security that your children will continue in their current high school. We have to stop this NOW. Sign up to speak at the meeting, have your teens sign up to speak and let the majority be heard loud and clear. Last I knew, we do live in a democracy.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:20PM

I know very few (a handful) of my children's peers who went to private school.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:22PM

>>>I really doubt that adding a bunch of upper middle class students to the IB school-within-a-school - which is what we are really talking about here - won't do anything for the 500 unless the plan is for the new kids to be half-day tutors to get their IB community involvement hours.<<<

Of course it won't help those low performing kids, but it will help the school to look better, on paper. It will dilute the low performing students but won't actually improve their education. In order to do that, education must change at the elementary level so that they are able to compete by high school.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:22PM

grandfathering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Last I knew, we do live in a
> democracy.

Actually, we live in a representative republic, and we elect our school board officials to make the decisions. We do not govern by referendum.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:22PM

Curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLgirl917
>
> I think the doomsday scenario's concerning
> everybody selling their homes is far fetched. I
> personally can't see a material amount
> moving..even a 10% loss is only 70 kids and that
> would be a lot of "for sale" signs.

Agreed.

>The impact of
> student out placement could contribute though.

Agreed. Especially given IB. A fair number of parents, myself included, simply don't want it for our kids based on who our kids are, what their interests are, and our opinion of AP vs IB for college.

> One
> strong thing in favor of SLHS is the location, the
> Dulles tollway is a hot growth area and will
> continue to get hotter, the rail will also help.

Agreed. But the same thing could be said about "NE Floris" irrespective of whether it's redistricted or not. After all, it's in Segway distance of the park and ride no matter what the high school is.

>
> I think that after students attend South Lakes
> through December of their first year that everyone
> will realize that it is a very normal environment
> and eventually you will see pride develop. The
> "news" will turn positive and after the school is
> full, the South Lakes SAT scores (everyone watches
> these) will climb solidly into the top half of
> Fairfax County averages.

It'd be hard not to. In fact, if the scores didn't climb that high, I'd fire the entire staff. After all, what's the current proposal but adding 700 students to the IB third of the current distribution at the school.

>
> Another thing people don't realize is that the
> incoming parents will have a very strong voice
> concerning the direction of the school.

When they seriously consider ditching IB, I'll believe it. But that's pretty clearly not on the table.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:27PM

>>>>Actually, we live in a representative republic, and we elect our school board officials to make the decisions. We do not govern by referendum.<<<

Yes. We get the government we deserve.

I do hope voters remember that when they are sent to a school that they never wanted to attend and their taxes are raised by a huge percentage. Those who chose to vote as the democrats told them to vote will get exactly the government that they deserve, higher taxes and NO school choice. They will get exactly what they voted for. Enjoy!

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:33PM

>>>>It'd be hard not to. In fact, if the scores didn't climb that high, I'd fire the entire staff. After all, what's the current proposal but adding 700 students to the IB third of the current distribution at the school.<<<

Too bad, no one can fire staff at any school. Even a principal has a very difficult time firing anyone. And NO ONE else can fire any school employee. "Site based management', doncha know.

>>>Another thing people don't realize is that the
> incoming parents will have a very strong voice
> concerning the direction of the school.

When they seriously consider ditching IB, I'll believe it. But that's pretty clearly not on the table.<<<

South Lakes PTSA has made it VERY clear that incoming parents will have NO say in the school and they definitely will have NO say in AP vs IB. They've made it quite clear that there will BE NO AP program at South Lakes. They LOVE IB, end of discussion. Not exactly welcoming, but it is what it is, they are in charge, newcomers are not.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: please....... ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:33PM

SLVerity Wrote:


>
> Yes, Westfield Dad. That is why the Mosby Woods
> kids do better at Oakton. I would like to see the
> same for the disadvantaged kids in Reston.

I sympathize with the socio-economic situation however, IF those statistics are accurate, then instead of moving me from my home school, you can redistrict SL to other schools: OHS, CHS and WHS, LHS and Madison. Are you so ignorant that you can't see the negative impact of the majority? If my neighborhood is redistricted my home value goes down, my children will experience negative educational impact while SL acclimates itself to a larger population as well as a larger course offering. I don't think you understand that SL will not automatically become a high achieving school just because you have drawn from a higher socio-economic area. It will take years to potentially become a higher achieving school. Not at my children's expense.........sorry.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:34PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Westfield dad said:
> >>>>Below, I adjust the high impact numbers for
> the schools with GT centers by assuming 20% of the
> kids are from the base school and assume 100% of
> the GT kids are English speakers, not on FRL, and
> don't move (reasonable assumptions given the
> demographics of GT kids). AdjHI = HI * (100 *
> (1/(100 - (%GT * .8))))<<<
>
> That is NOT the case since GT centers were
> expanded from 4.5% to 14%. Many of the current GT
> students do NOT speak English and many need
> remedial help in English and/or math. Many of
> them are also now FRL. The GT office gets most of
> their funding through their 'Young Scholars"
> program which is designed to place more Blacks,
> Hispanics, and children in poverty, into GT
> centers. The population at GT centers has changed
> dramatically over the last 10 to 15 years. Every
> GT center has remedial classes to help children
> who are 'potentially gifted' but have not yet
> received their gifts.

Neen -
I'll just say I have had some experience with GT over the years. Yes, the idiots changed the criteria, especially when they brought in the Negleri, a truly amazingly useless test designed to select for innumerates and illiterates, but the generally selected set of kids haven't changed enough to make my calculations that far off.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: jus' wanna say ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:35PM

SLgirl917 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a question: I've been reading the posts about
> the more affluent members of the community
> leaving, but aren't other people going to move in
> to these houses? When families new to the area
> come in, just how much about this redistricting
> are they going to know about? Also, wouldn't the
> houses belonging to the people who want to leave
> need to be sold before they can move into a house
> in another school district?

The stuff about "leaving the community" (which BTW, is where the aggrieved redistrictees live NOW...ie Chantilly, Oakton, etc) is just an adult tantrum...they aren't going anywhere. 99.9% of them couldn't afford to move anyway, given the current real esate market.

And, of course, somebody will move into the houses of the handful that actually do "leave".

The buyers will have to be VERY dilligent in their research if what schools their kids will go to is a concern for them. Real estate agents won't touch school issues WITH A TEN FOOT POLE! Because, unlike the School Board, real estate agents are sued successfully every day!

Again, congrats on your poise in being able to stay "above the fray" in this most emotional discussion. The adults should do so well....

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:36PM

>>>One strong thing in favor of SLHS is the location, the
> Dulles tollway is a hot growth area and will
> continue to get hotter, the rail will also help.<<<<

When do you think that growth will begin again? When will the housing market turn around? And when will rail actually get to Reston? How many years/decades until completion?

Madison and Oakton are already within walking distance of the metro. Might we expect their populations to grow even more quickly?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2007 11:37PM by Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:44PM

>>>The buyers will have to be VERY dilligent in their research if what schools their kids will go to is a concern for them. Real estate agents won't touch school issues WITH A TEN FOOT POLE! Because, unlike the School Board, real estate agents are sued successfully every day!<<<

Duh. Of course parents who care about education will be diligent in finding the best school districts. That's why they don't buy houses in bad school districts. It's not rocket science to find the best school districts. No one would rely on a real estate agent to do that simple research for them. One google search and one click finds this:

https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/

ANY parent who cared about their child's school district would find that in 10 seconds.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:47PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Restonian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Your information is interesting and well
> > presented. Your conclusion is faulty. Those
> high
> > needs kids will do better when they make up a
> > smaller percentage of the student body.
>
> Yes, Westfield Dad. That is why the Mosby Woods
> kids do better at Oakton. I would like to see the
> same for the disadvantaged kids in Reston.


I would too. However, I might believe the redistricting could make a difference if we were talking about 1 ES over 30% FRL with the rest under 5%, but we are talking about 4 of 6 that high and 1 over 60%. We're not looking at an end state HS with 6% FRL, we're looking at 22% or so.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:50PM

please....... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Yes, Westfield Dad. That is why the Mosby Woods
> > kids do better at Oakton. I would like to see
> the
> > same for the disadvantaged kids in Reston.
>
> I sympathize with the socio-economic situation
> however, IF those statistics are accurate, then
> instead of moving me from my home school, you can
> redistrict SL to other schools: OHS, CHS and WHS,
> LHS and Madison. Are you so ignorant that you
> can't see the negative impact of the majority? If
> my neighborhood is redistricted my home value goes
> down, my children will experience negative
> educational impact while SL acclimates itself to a
> larger population as well as a larger course
> offering. I don't think you understand that SL
> will not automatically become a high achieving
> school just because you have drawn from a higher
> socio-economic area. It will take years to
> potentially become a higher achieving school. Not
> at my children's expense.........sorry.

THAT'S the problem, they are asking a group of parents to sacrifice their children to help Reston, even though they never chose to live in Reston, or send their children to an IB program. They never, ever, bought into the whole thinking pattern of Reston folks, yet they are being asked to sacrifice their children for the failures of the liberal, Reston, thinkimg, while also telling those parents that they will have NO say in what happens at South Lakes. It's terrible. To add insult to injury, the board of supervisors will raise your taxes. Not only will you have NO say in your children's education, you will be force to pay more for it!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:52PM

Landlord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the big deal with home ownership anyway?
> The tax deduction is, and always has been, a
> stupid reason to pay thousands in interest every
> year....why pay 10 bucks to write off 2 bucks?
>
> Appreciation is tenuous at best. See all the FOR
> SALE signs? Watch the County site to see what
> they went for...IF they went at all.
>
> NONE of this is worth the aggravation of school
> redistricting.
>
> Just rent, and if/when the school boundaries
> change...MOVE!
>

Today, that is probably good advice. In 1999, not so much.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 29, 2007 11:57PM

>>>We're not looking at an end state HS with 6% FRL, we're looking at 22% or so.<<<

That's the problem for most parents. Reducing poverty at South Lakes from 33% to 22 to 25%, just isn''t enough for the majority of parents to feel comfortable. Add to that the PTSA digging in their heals and refusing to discuss any change from IB to AP, the majority of parents want a way to avoid to South Lakes at any and all costs.

They need to tell everyone on the school board, over and over, and do the same with the board of supervisors. Let them know that if they support sending your children to a school that you do not support, and does not support you, you will not support their proposed tax increases.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:01AM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know very few (a handful) of my children's peers
> who went to private school.

DUH. Of course you don't. Your children aren't in those schools, therefore you don't know them.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Curious ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:08AM

I am referring to the Dulles to Reston job growth...still on fire. Employee's desire to be close to their jobs will benefit the immediate area. The commute towards this area has gotten bad in the past five years.

Oakton/ Madison proximity has (past and present) benefited from Metro.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:15AM

By The Way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You DO NOT have to QUOTE the entire novel-lenghth
> drivel posted by the twit that you would like to
> respond to!
>
> A simple Hey, Neen....or Hey Thomas More, etc
> WOULD DO! The intended target should remember
> what they said....and if they don't, they can
> scroll back and have a look-see.
>
> This thread would "only" be about 20 pages if not
> for such nonsense!
>
> Please remember that Cary, our wonderful and
> gracious host, does not have unlimited bandwidth!


Thanks for contributing! I'm sure Cary appreciates your efforts.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:17AM

>>>Oakton/ Madison proximity has (past and present) benefited from Metro.<<<

Oh? How is that? How have they benefited?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:19AM

>>>I am referring to the Dulles to Reston job growth...still on fire. Employee's desire to be close to their jobs will benefit the immediate area. The commute towards this area has gotten bad in the past five years.<<<

That may be, but housing in that area has stalled. It is NOT growing. Nor will it contribute to growth at South Lakes, for many years.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:36AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>I am referring to the Dulles to Reston job
> growth...still on fire. Employee's desire to be
> close to their jobs will benefit the immediate
> area. The commute towards this area has gotten bad
> in the past five years.<<<
>
> That may be, but housing in that area has stalled.
> It is NOT growing. Nor will it contribute to
> growth at South Lakes, for many years.


So we'll cross that "South Lakes buffer" issue off the list. Thanks, Neen.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Curious ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:36AM

Neen,
It is my understanding that housing proximity to Metro stations is valued higher than properties not in proximity. Of course all other things being equal. I'm getting tired so I'm not going to argue with you over this.

As far as housing stalled, I live over in the Oakton area and there is quite a bit going on. Some started a while back and surprisingly more to be started quite soon. I however don't disagree that the housing market is having an impact.

Also, my comments do reflect a time frame that does go out several years.

BTY, what is the latest Dulles rail status?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Truthbetold ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:36AM

How FRM kids benefit by being a smaller percentage of the overall school population:

1) More teacher and counselor time available to help them
2) More courses available to take simply because of more students: They, too, get the benefit of equity in programming
3) More involvement with peers who are achieving, and thus less chance they'll congregate together and suffer "crab bucket" syndrome (See "A Hope in the Unseen.")
4) More advantaged families participate more in school functions, bringing both their attention and dollars to the school, benefiting all students, including poor ones
5) Evidence in this county shows that FRM kids do better when they are a smaller percentage of their school populations -- the achievement gaps drop for them

These kids are not stupid. They are not low-class. They are not immoral or subhuman, as many seem to treat them. They simply do not have the same support at home that everyone else gets because their parent(s) are working doubleshifts, or they just plain don't have the dollars to buy extra books, experiences, travel to events, etc. -- and that means the school is the only other place they can get at least some of that support. They get it from teachers, counselors, administrators, peers, coaches, and volunteer parents. Of whom there will be more once this redistricting happens.

I will never forget a PTA meeting where I suggested that there be childcare available for parents who couldn't leave little ones at home alone, so they could attend. And perhaps even to have an interpreter every so often. One sniffy parent said, "They can hire a babysitter!" Another said, "We don't have the problem (of poor families) here!" Another said, "Let them learn English!" I replied that this is why they are called the "invisible community." Many don't show up because they CAN'T. Not that they don't want to. Others struggle with English and are treated like dirt by snobs in other parts of their lives and are afraid of how they'd be treated in school. Others come from cultures where school and home don't interact. The list goes on. I was appalled by the attitude of a few privileged white women at this meeting.

Thank goodness gracious that these people make up only a teeny tiny percentage of participating families. When South Lakes welcomes its new neighbors, the vast engaged majority will be tolerant, caring, and deeply concerned about ALL the kids at their new school. This I know. The few who try to poison it (some of whom are posting here), will not prevail.

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Re: high school redistricting-Comparing SAT Scores
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:38AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>One strong thing in favor of SLHS is the
> location, the
> > Dulles tollway is a hot growth area and will
> > continue to get hotter, the rail will also
> help.<<<<
>
> When do you think that growth will begin again?
> When will the housing market turn around? And
> when will rail actually get to Reston? How many
> years/decades until completion?
>
> Madison and Oakton are already within walking
> distance of the metro. Might we expect their
> populations to grow even more quickly?


That's a short hike from Maple Avenue down Nutley to the Metro. Wagon trains make it all the time.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VoiceOfReason ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:15AM

Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: quantum (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 08:19AM


Voice of Reason - you make a number of excellent points, among them that no one should have a hard and fast reliance interest in any one school in Fairfax County given that it is a large government entity and their is an assumption of risk assumed when one purchases a home here that school boundaries may be changed. But there a few assumptions implicit in your note that are worth of challenge:





1. First, the race point. Aside from the obvious silly posts, it is difficult to ascribe racism to anyone because unfortunately both the achievement AND behavioral gaps correlate significantly to race. This is not to say that there are not itinerant exceptions - there are - but it is not a happy picture and people fearful of the negative externalities associated with such achievement and behavioral gaps are to a large extent rational and thus racism cannot be automatically imputed to those that merely want to discuss a very difficult issue.

2. Second, it is not race per se, either (notwithstanding the above, inasmuch as all right thinking people should treat people as individuals). What is really objectionable is an entitlement culture that infects some, but clearly not all of course, of the groups that give rise to concern. Bluntly put, there are a number of young people in homes in which parents don't parent well (at least not by the dominant Fairfax standard), and make and have made a number of choices that are deleterious (crime, out of wedlock births, etc.) and have numerous impacts on a community, including the schools. It is with those that adopt a culture of poverty, as opposed to those that merely happen to be poor, that right thinking people are concerned about. This is a significant distinction.


3. While college is a laudable goal for many, too many are opting for college (and particularly schools of lesser caliber when the studies are not rigorous), where the focus instead should be on achieving a high level of basic computational and reading skill and developing a trade or job skill. There are recent studies that reflect that those that join the military are better off economically and otherwise than those that struggle through lesser caliber schools merely in the pursuit of a credential (and I don't necessarily think military service is all that great, by the way, but the point is that practical skills are in many cases important). This statement, of course, appears a little strange to those posting on this board, but those on this board by and large have an IQ and level of education at least two standard deviations above the mean in the US and will be speaking from a far different aspirational context than most.

4. As I have said before, there is a backdrop of frustration at the political leanings and policies of those in charge. Reston and South Lakes High School are progressives dreams, with every benefit to those less fortunate available (it is the closest to Sweden in America), yet this socialist utopia has overseen, or some might assert has caused, a decline for over 15 years at its high school. Ironically, one of the common assertions made as to the school's recent improvement is its renewed focus on discipline, structure and accountability - a conservative ideal that will likely take a while to bear fruit - but many are frustrated at being asked to, in a sense, bail out yet another failed progressive program (and, yes, this is harsh, but so much of our social spending has inculcated entitlements, habits and reliance that not only has been a waste, they have generated tremendous negative returns on the investment made). People who make this point (and it is a contentious one because the social investments have been made with good intent and in some cases the programs have worked) are not evil or racist - they are merely making a point on a difficult and challenging issue. And their skepticism is warranted given the track record.

To point 1!!! As I said, I did not read all posts in the thread. There are posts I read in the first several pages by individuals still posting. I have also had the unpleasant experience of overhearing conversations at functions where my children participate. Most of which I found ignorant in nature. It was said that one family they knew moved back to their county to build an addition atop their parants' household....this is grandparents, parents and grandchildren living in the same household; not multiple-families with children living in the same household. The other ignorant attitude was a single mom living in a 2 bedroom situation with multiple children in the household. Yes, some areas have both...but to negate these children is stupid at best. What is wrong with children who have their grandparents involved in their lives? And who is to say that a single mom is not the mother of the next President? The langauge and money barrier only idicates that these parents work harder for their children.

To Point #2!!! Every child is a student of Fairfax County. No matter how they happen to be here...they are. Born out of wedlock, or born with an affliction that does not allow them to be at the top of their class...does not mean they are less worthy. Maybe their parents have not made the best choices, but they are still in Fairfax county; and deserve every opportunity...that is not a feat to be left unsaid. Maybe their parents aren't involved as some, but they still have their kids enrolled in school, and they are the ones the least eligible to fight.

Point #3!! My undergrad degreee is not from an Ivy League college...ha my masters degree is not from the best college in the state. Yet, I still live and thrive in Fairfax County. This is your weakest argument, as I see it. Frankly, all these parents that have purchased houses in Fairfax County, have not been educated in such stellar districts. Some probably have...no argument here...but my degrees still stand when applying for jobs.

Point 4!!! I have no problem with my children attending South Lakes. I am an educated person with an advanced degree. I have my preferences as to whom they would attend with, but that is based on the people they already know...not that I feel one neighborhood is better than the other.

For the record I like option 5. Change is inevitable. I have lived here for almost 17 years. And, btw, I responded to this post, as it was the most well informed post.

Thank you, Quantum

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: By The Way ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:33AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for contributing! I'm sure Cary
> appreciates your efforts.


You're a wise-ass, Neen. No wonder neither Tistadt nor the school board are interested in listening to your "concerns". I don't blame them a damned bit.
You're too clever by far.

The Langley folks are wise-asses too, but they got more than smart mouthes, they got wallets...get used to it...you're nobody.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Obituary ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:50AM

Excuse me for asking, but I saw an obit in the Washington Post last week for a Mr William Strauss aged 59. It said he left his beloved wife, Janie Strauss.

I wondered, when I read it, if she was THE Janie Strauss, reviled school board member?

I figured probably not...since news like that would have undoubtedly generated page after page of disgusting comments from you common bastards....I only skim this thread once in a while, but I doubt I could have missed that.

Anyhow, RIP, Mr Strauss, whoever you are....

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VoiceOfReason ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:52AM

RIP...Obituary...clearly you are as common as the rest of us.


Obituary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excuse me for asking, but I saw an obit in the
> Washington Post last week for a Mr William Strauss
> aged 59. It said he left his beloved wife, Janie
> Strauss.
>
> I wondered, when I read it, if she was THE Janie
> Strauss, reviled school board member?
>
> I figured probably not...since news like that
> would have undoubtedly generated page after page
> of disgusting comments from you common
> bastards....I only skim this thread once in a
> while, but I doubt I could have missed that.
>
> Anyhow, RIP, Mr Strauss, whoever you are....

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Madre ()
Date: December 30, 2007 02:14AM

Posted by: SLHS Padre (IP logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 12:12PM

Hello Berdhuis:

Merry Christmas and the Happiest for the New Year!!

__________________________________________

Posted by: Berdhuis (IP logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 02:40PM

SLHS Padre Wrote:
Hello Berdhuis:

Merry Christmas and the Happiest for the New Year!!

Excellent post and link (just checked it out), Padre, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, too!

__________________________________________

posted by: SLHS Padre (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 05:08PM

Berdhuis Wrote:

SLHS Padre Wrote:

Hello Berdhuis:

Merry Christmas and the Happiest for the New Year.

__________________________________________________

posted by: Berdhuis (IP logged)
Date: December 29, 2007 01:30AM

SLHS Padre wrote:

I'm in love with you.


____________

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VoiceOfReason ()
Date: December 30, 2007 02:43AM

I am not in love with anyone here. I responded to the most informed post to mine. As much as I agree or disagree with it.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 02:58AM

>>>BTY, what is the latest Dulles rail status?<<<

They're still talking about it and still working on funding. But heck, it's only been 40 years. Something will work out soon, within the next decade or two, three at the most.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:05AM

By the way,
How obvious you are! Please tell us how you know that the school board doesn't listen to me. Go ahead, SHARE. No hating, just SHARING.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:07AM

VoiceOfReason Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RIP...Obituary...clearly you are as common as the
> rest of us.
>
>
> Obituary Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Excuse me for asking, but I saw an obit in the
> > Washington Post last week for a Mr William
> Strauss
> > aged 59. It said he left his beloved wife,
> Janie
> > Strauss.
> >
> > I wondered, when I read it, if she was THE
> Janie
> > Strauss, reviled school board member?
> >
> > I figured probably not...since news like that
> > would have undoubtedly generated page after
> page
> > of disgusting comments from you common
> > bastards....I only skim this thread once in a
> > while, but I doubt I could have missed that.
> >
> > Anyhow, RIP, Mr Strauss, whoever you are....

Yes, Bill's wife, now widow, is Janie Strauss, school board rep from Dranesville and a very decent human being. Bill was too.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: berdhuiis ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:15AM

VoiceOfReason:

"I am not in love with anyone here."

__________________

HA

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: VoiceOfReason ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:24AM

I have no doubt. Yet the rest of us are left here to fight for what we believe. Trust me the school board has already made up their mind.



Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VoiceOfReason Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RIP...Obituary...clearly you are as common as
> the
> > rest of us.
> >
> >
> > Obituary Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Excuse me for asking, but I saw an obit in
> the
> > > Washington Post last week for a Mr William
> > Strauss
> > > aged 59. It said he left his beloved wife,
> > Janie
> > > Strauss.
> > >
> > > I wondered, when I read it, if she was THE
> > Janie
> > > Strauss, reviled school board member?
> > >
> > > I figured probably not...since news like that
> > > would have undoubtedly generated page after
> > page
> > > of disgusting comments from you common
> > > bastards....I only skim this thread once in a
> > > while, but I doubt I could have missed that.
> > >
> > > Anyhow, RIP, Mr Strauss, whoever you are....
>
> Yes, Bill's wife, now widow, is Janie Strauss,
> school board rep from Dranesville and a very
> decent human being. Bill was too.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Obituary ()
Date: December 30, 2007 04:02AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Bill's wife, now widow, is Janie Strauss,
> school board rep from Dranesville and a very
> decent human being. Bill was too.



Well then, I'm very glad to hear that you people have limits to your crassness.

FFX society is just a tad bit better than I thought....

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: berdhuiis ()
Date: December 30, 2007 04:12AM

Padre, my love....

Stop hogging all the blankets.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Parent from Fox Mill Estates ()
Date: December 30, 2007 04:36AM

I wish to thank those of you who responded to my post. I hope my son will be grandfathered in to Oakton High School as some folks indicate. I have read some posts in response to my post and I thought I should clarify some issues.

1. I am looking at Fairfax County Public School Website and the SOL scores of both Oakton High School and South Lakes High School as I type this sentence. I am looking at the percent of students that Fail the tested subject areas. Unfortunatly, they are glaring. No spin. No agenda.

2. As far as my son's going to a popular college is concerned, it does matter what school he goes to for several reasons.

First, my son, or any child for that matter, will enjoy himself most by attending a school he likes. If my son is happier at a Oakton High School then he will probably earn higher grades in that school. If my son earns higher grades in high school, my son will be a more attractive candidate in the minds of college admissions boards.

Second, my son does best when his peers are high achievers. My son is a follower and not a leader. For example, we enrolled my son in the Japanese Emersion Program at Fox Mill Elementary School. My son's classmates were encouraged by their parents to succeed in learning Japanese. I believe my son sucessfuly negotaited this demanding program because his classmates were doing the same. The same can be said about the Boy Scouts where my son is working toward his Eagle rank. Two of my son's closest friends in his troop --which produces alot of Eagle Scouts by the way-- have achieved the rank of Eagle. Both these achievements should increase my son's opertunity toward gaining acceptance at a popular college.
Success breads success and my son, like any other child, needs all the success he can acquire.

Now my son will probably score in a higher percentile of his graduating class if he were to attend South Lakes High School. Frankly, I think this may help my son with the college admissions boards. However, my son is a follower. He can ill afford to mimick children who show less interest in learning.

Now as far as the real estate valuation issue is concerned, I think the county should compensate the homeowners whose properties have been moved to the South Lakes District. Real Estate agents use schools as selling points to home buyers. If someone's home has been changed to a less attractive school district through no fault of their own then this economic injury should be mitigated by the county.

The overcrowding at the schools is happening because the county permitted real estate developers to build out western Fairfax County beyond many school district's capacity. The additional revenue to the county is emense. The property owners who invested in real estate in more marketable school distrits should be compensated for their loss of those school districts. The county has the means to pay. The county caused this loss.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLHS Padre ()
Date: December 30, 2007 08:09AM

Madre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Posted by: SLHS Padre (IP logged)
> Date: December 28, 2007 12:12PM
>
> Hello Berdhuis:
>
> Merry Christmas and the Happiest for the New
> Year!!
>
> __________________________________________
>
> Posted by: Berdhuis (IP logged)
> Date: December 28, 2007 02:40PM
>
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
> Hello Berdhuis:
>
> Merry Christmas and the Happiest for the New
> Year!!
>
> Excellent post and link (just checked it out),
> Padre, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to
> you, too!
>
> __________________________________________
>
> posted by: SLHS Padre (IP Logged)
> Date: December 28, 2007 05:08PM
>
> Berdhuis Wrote:
>
> SLHS Padre Wrote:
>
> Hello Berdhuis:
>
> Merry Christmas and the Happiest for the New
> Year.
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> posted by: Berdhuis (IP logged)
> Date: December 29, 2007 01:30AM
>
> SLHS Padre wrote:
>
> I'm in love with you.
>
>
> ____________


Madre:

I have come to my senses. We are kaput. Please pay all bills, but don't sell the house.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldMom ()
Date: December 30, 2007 08:28AM

Curious Wrote:


> Another thing people don't realize is that the
> incoming parents will have a very strong voice
> concerning the direction of the school. If the
> incoming parents combine with the group (PTSA?)
> that currently exists within South Lakes, they
> will be heard on issues.

Combine my voice with the current South Lakes PTSA? I have heard their voices loud and clear. There is a decided difference of opinion. No way do we have common ground.

Also remember that I will be driving 45 minutes or more when my two high schoolers are placed at schools 15-20 minutes away from our home in different directions. I won't have time, gas money, or physical stamina to go in and disagree with the SL PTSA. It will continue to be All Reston All The Time.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 30, 2007 09:04AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>BTY, what is the latest Dulles rail status?<<<
>
> They're still talking about it and still working
> on funding. But heck, it's only been 40 years.
> Something will work out soon, within the next
> decade or two, three at the most.

I recently saw in the paper that they were about to start the first phase of moving utilities in Tysons.

Of course, it's over not under, alas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 30, 2007 09:44AM

> >>>BTY, what is the latest Dulles rail status?<<<

There's are several articles in the Metro section of today's Post.

Article 1 says - Utility work along Route 7 starts in January and will take a couple years. However, the actual rail project is not yet approved by FTA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/29/AR2007122900869.html

Article 2 says - delivery to Whiele in 2013, the rest by 2016.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: December 30, 2007 10:16AM

Metro- now it is said that there are not enough stops planned for Tysons so a trolly or circulator might be in order. The latter would be a tram-monorail thing so IMHO the train part should just go up 66, big parking, stop at Wolftrap, only build a far less costly circulator through Tysons.

Disney could plan that very well. 4 lanes each way of 7 does not contribute to a more walkable Tysons or asthetics. Getting rid of service roads rather than using them as local arteries and interior 7 as a thru rd would be preferable. FX is so asinine and the guy mendolsohn that brought you all the ludicrous gerrymandered Langley boundary [and Mclean Bible neighborhood house of worship] is involved.

As for Strauss, she is revered and reviled. Her Langley boundary does not pass the Fed litmus test on race and closest school. IMHO good for protecting certain constituents [programs, boundaries] to the detriment of others much like Gibson. Sad thing is that both caused higher property taxes to fund their endeavors and all must pay for it even people living in low priced condos.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: December 30, 2007 11:37AM

I'm not sure what one poster means by saying that anyone will be 'sacrificing' their children by sending them to South Lakes. Infer from that statement what you will about the attitudes of the parent who said it. My children attended South Lakes and did very well, thank you. Could their programs have benefitted from more students? Yes. Overall, though, they loved their school and moved on to a top-rated public university in Virginia. My son is also an Eagle Scout - yes, we do have those in Socialist Reston, too.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldDad ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:18PM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Metro- now it is said that there are not enough
> stops planned for Tysons so a trolly or circulator
> might be in order. The latter would be a
> tram-monorail thing so IMHO the train part should
> just go up 66, big parking, stop at Wolftrap, only
> build a far less costly circulator through Tysons.
>
taxpayer -

This, of course, doesn't belong in this discussion list, but I have two different points -

1) It's really not a number of stops problem, it's really a single path through a large area problem. Because of the large area, most of Tysons simply can't be within walking distance of the Metro stations (given that American's won't walk farther than they can throw a softball...)

My preferred alternative Metro design for Tysons was rejected. It had the Metro tracks split into two single track lines to allow a Metro-based circulator in Tysons (like the Loop El in Chicago) precisely to address the walking distance problem (and problem 2 below). I'm not sure why it was rejected, but I suspect it was for the same reason the subway was - the Federal cost/passenger mile rules that have driven the entire design (including eliminating the early proposal to have the line come off the Toll Road into RTC). Of course, since it's not like the walking distance problem goes away, we've simply moved the costs of addressing it to a separate account/separate system.

2) Your suggestion of simply running the line up the toll road with associated circulator has the problem that it absolutely requires changing modes to go into Tysons. There's a lot of evidence from a lot of systems that very many potential transit riders are lost with every additional connection they are required to make. This problem, of course, also applies to riders who will have to switch to the circulator with the current plan, but, at least, the Metro will be in walking distance of highest density areas of Tysons.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Anothercurious ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:18PM

SLVerity:

Glad to hear your kids did well in SL. Of course, everyone thinks their school is the best....Let parents decide what is best for their children. If people think their kids will thrive in Oakton or Chantilly, so be it. Everything is perception...By the way, my son goes to Westfield, but he feels that Oakton is better...only because most of his friends go there...go figures!

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: December 30, 2007 12:25PM

Go figure is so true. My point is that a good kid who wants to work hard will thrive anywhere. And parents can go a long way to help them with adjusting to new environs. I think that given time, anyone redistricted will feel the same way about SL that my kids did. Also, despite what some ill-informed posters are saying here, any newcomers will be warmly welcomed by the SL community. It is a very nurturing place.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: WestfieldMom ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:19PM

Some kids will not be able to handle being split from their community to go to Reston which is a closed community. They will be part of a very visible unhappy minority of kids who did not go to Langston Hughes. The SL cliques form in middle school.

The older South Lakes kids have been out announcing to PTA meetings and at boundary meetings that they think kids at Oakton and Westfield are undiverse and clique-y. Not at all positive (about anything except themselves) or welcoming, just how superior they think they are. I think adult influence has taken the kids very natural pride in thier school and turned it into encouraging the kids to go out and publicly criticize other schools and the parents of kids at other schools.

It is also a major curriculum change for kids who have started advanced math and foreign languages in middle school.

These kids will not have their community available, their older siblings and older neighbors. They will not have the normal high school curriculum available. And there is a very dug in, unpleasant, intolerant, unyielding group of people running the PTSA, so there will be no adult support for the new non-Reston kids.


SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go figure is so true. My point is that a good kid
> who wants to work hard will thrive anywhere. And
> parents can go a long way to help them with
> adjusting to new environs. I think that given
> time, anyone redistricted will feel the same way
> about SL that my kids did. Also, despite what
> some ill-informed posters are saying here, any
> newcomers will be warmly welcomed by the SL
> community. It is a very nurturing place.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Old Timer ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:41PM

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some kids will not be able to handle being split
> from their community to go to Reston which is a
> closed community. They will be part of a very
> visible unhappy minority of kids who did not go to
> Langston Hughes. The SL cliques form in middle
> school.


If you read the article by Oakton kids and listened to many of the SL students posting here, one of the many positives of the school is that there aren't your standard cliques. The students, understandably, pride themselves on that feature. Additionally, all freshmen are provided an upperclassman mentor who introduces them to the school, activities, cafeteria, etc. so they are comfortable in their environment. The met with their mentors and mentor groups to discuss issues/concerns.

> The older South Lakes kids have been out
> announcing to PTA meetings and at boundary
> meetings that they think kids at Oakton and
> Westfield are undiverse and clique-y. Not at all
> positive (about anything except themselves) or
> welcoming, just how superior they think they are.
> I think adult influence has taken the kids very
> natural pride in thier school and turned it into
> encouraging the kids to go out and publicly
> criticize other schools and the parents of kids at
> other schools.

Please - have you really read any of the posts here or have you just logged on. There have been the most disgusting nasty things written about SL, the students and the parents that you can't seriously be saying that students at SL thing they are superior. I've heard no SL students criticize others but vehemently defend their school. In fact, most of the students on all sides that have posted here or who were at the meetings, have only said positive things and acted more maturely than the adults around them.

> It is also a major curriculum change for kids who
> have started advanced math and foreign languages
> in middle school.

Are you joking? Starting foreign language in middle school is perfect for IB as is Algebra in 7th or 8th grade. Get your facts straight.

> These kids will not have their community
> available, their older siblings and older
> neighbors. They will not have the normal high
> school curriculum available.

Normal, as in AP only?

>And there is a very dug in, unpleasant, intolerant, unyielding group
>of people running the PTSA, so there will be no adult support for the new non->Reston kids.

Please show me one post by one ptsa member that was intolerant, unyielding, or unpleasant. I'm afraid you're letting Neen direct you. The PTSA has not been posting here. They've yet to be intolerant and have repeatedly said that all students would be welcomed. Additionally, all the SL posters here, who aren't necessarily ptsa members have said they would welcome the addition of AP classes.


You are welcome to be unhappy about your child being redistricted but don't attribute beliefs and behaviors on others without evidence.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Living ()
Date: December 30, 2007 01:55PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure what one poster means by saying that
> anyone will be 'sacrificing' their children by
> sending them to South Lakes. Infer from that
> statement what you will about the attitudes of the
> parent who said it. My children attended South
> Lakes and did very well, thank you. Could their
> programs have benefitted from more students? Yes.
> Overall, though, they loved their school and
> moved on to a top-rated public university in
> Virginia. My son is also an Eagle Scout - yes, we
> do have those in Socialist Reston, too.


If you agree that Westfield is better than South Lake, then moving from Westfield to South Lake is a sacrifice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Living ()
Date: December 30, 2007 02:27PM

unpleasant_facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one willingly will want to go to South Lakes if
> they have an option of going to Oakton. Oakton is
> in the top 100 schools in US.
> The school board has to force some communities
> into South Lakes. This entire discussion is about
> to choose the losers. The influential communities
> of Langley and Madison were smart and bought their
> way out of the study before it even began. The
> rest are slugging out the numbers. For what? SL is
> not going to become good by renovation of
> redistricting. This is a self defeating approach.
> The SL PTA said they want the 700 students to be
> "advantaged" ones. How short sighted they can be.
> If these 700 students come from advantaged
> families, their families will do every thing in
> their power to provide a good education for their
> kids. That would mean getting the hell out of
> South Lakes - either pupil place out of south
> lakes or move to other school areas that have good
> AP courses. These "advantaged" families moved into
> houses only after looking at the schools and
> their course offerings. If these school board
> socialists think they can force us to send our
> kids to SL, they are sadly mistaken. Thank god we
> live in USA where we are truely free. These
> advantaged families will simply move to a
> neighbourhood that still is in Oakton as they will
> have the financial resources to do so. The SB can
> force a boundary change, but they will never get
> these Kids in SL for their social engineering
> experiment.
> Sadly the only way SL can increase enrollment
> without offering better educational oppurtunities,
> is to go after the disadvantaged kids, for whom
> moving out of the new South Lakes boundary might
> not be a financially viable option. If the school
> board was really interested in the educational
> needs of the South Lakes students, they should
> have spent the 50 million in expanding the
> capacity at high performing adjacent schools,
> placed the SL students to these surrounding
> Langley and Madison schools and then shut down SL.
> Instead they sunk 50 million in a failing school
> where no one wants to go, and are now trying to
> find the weakest folks who can be forced into SL.
> Basically trying to cover up their 50 million
> blunder
> And as for the IB supporters, they should look at
> the world map - they will find Reston is in the
> USA not in Europe.


That sums up really well the thinkings of many of the Floris parents I know. Their lives are around their children. Their children's Education is the highest priority for them. Most of them bought houses in Floris because of the schools. Their kids are doing really well in school and are the best students in school academically. If SB's ill conceived plan goes through, the parents will just move to a better school district or find other means to avoid SL. The parents are willing to sacrifice financially not to compromise there children's education. Sadly, SL will never get the best students from Floris area.

What made things worse is the whole unfairness of the redistrict process. The SB and SL PTA are not helping the situation either. These parents are more determined than ever not to let their children go to SL.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Truthbetold ()
Date: December 30, 2007 02:48PM

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Cluck cluck.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:09PM

>>>>Trust me the school board has already made up their mind.<<<

Yes. That's true. But it's not 'the school board' it's Stu Gibson who decides what happens in Hunter Mill district. The rest of them don't really get involved.

If you want to influence what happens, put pressure on the board of supervisors. The last thing they want is hundreds of people complaining about the schools at the same time when they want to impose a large tax rate increase. The school board and school staff have made it more than clear that they don't care what the public wants, maybe the board of supervisors will care.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:18PM

>>>Now my son will probably score in a higher percentile of his graduating class if he were to attend South Lakes High School.<<<<

I'm afraid not. There is no ranking of students in Fairfax county schools, except for Stuart. FCPS doesn't like rankings because that means competition and they don't like anything that is competitive. (Someone should tell them that the world is a very competitive place. Just being a nice person won't get our kids the job they want. They will have to compete. Won't that a be shock to these nice, but non competitive, students.)

>>>he property owners who invested in real estate in more marketable school distrits should be compensated for their loss of those school districts. The county has the means to pay. The county caused this loss.<<<

Good luck with that. Not only will they not compensate you, the board of supervisors intends to raise the tax rate high enough that you will pay MORE in real estate taxes than you have EVER paid.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:22PM

You all may complain about Janie Strauss but if you lived in Langley district and she was your school board representative you would love her. Your family would NEVER be redistricted, never even considered for redistricting. PLUS, when all the other schools have to make do with trailers, your school gets a brand new, bricks and mortar addition. Janie Strauss serves her constituents very well. It's too bad that not all school board members protect their people like Janie does. She has obviously made friends with those on the school board who allow her Langley parents to be held harmless in all boundary disputes. That's doing right by your people. We should all be so lucky as to have her represent us.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:25PM

>>>>The influential communities
> of Langley and Madison were smart and bought their
> way out of the study before it even began.<<<<

How did we do that? Who was paid off? Janie? Surely not, she has no need of money and she runs unopposed. Stu? Hardly. Kathy Hudgins and Gerry Connelly? Perhaps. But I'd have to see who the donors were that pulled this off.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:32PM

.>>>>>If the school
A> board was really interested in the educational
> needs of the South Lakes students, they should
> have spent the 50 million in expanding the
> capacity at high performing adjacent schools,
> placed the SL students to these surrounding
> Langley and Madison schools and then shut down SL.
> Instead they sunk 50 million in a failing school
> where no one wants to go, and are now trying to
> find the weakest folks who can be forced into SL
> Basically trying to cover up their 50 million
> blunder
>

Yes, they should have begun closing South Lakes instead of renovating it with our money. The neighboring schools could have easily absorbed the SL students over the next 4 years. I suggested that early on in this discussion but the ever-so-kind folks from South Lakes went nuts at the thought of closing their beloved experiment in socialistic schools with their even more beloved IB program.

>>>>And as for the IB supporters, they should look at
> the world map - they will find Reston is in the
> USA not in Europe.<<<<

Yes, but that's exactly why they LOVE IB, it's not a US program. It's European. They MUCH prefer ANY program that is not US based. They LOVE the world, especially Europe, precisely because it is NOT the US. The rest of the world is SO MUCH more beloved than their own country.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:37PM

>>>>Please show me one post by one ptsa member that was intolerant, unyielding, or unpleasant<<<<

You didn't read Clarifier's posts? The ones where she said anyone coming into to South Lakes could forget about an AP program? That they would NOT yield on that. Didn't you also read the posts that new parents should not think they would have any say in what happens at South Lakes because they won't? Extremely unyielding and unpleasant.

Surely you read the posts by WiiShallnotSucccum, or whoever, rather outspokenly arrogant about who is in charge at South Lakes.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: wagon44 ()
Date: December 30, 2007 03:55PM

Does anyone have an more info on the FCPS lawsuit involving Stu Gibson. I though they had until December 27 to file an appeal.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 04:00PM

At the last school board meeting the chairman said that the schools would not appeal and that Mr. Gibson apologizes if he hurt anyone.

http://www.examiner.com/blogs/Sharp_Sticks

I do not know if a lawsuit is still pending. The recall petitions are circulating for the recall of Mr. Gibson. Any voter in Hunter Mill district can sign it. Once there are 2,500 signatures, then he is recalled and a special election will be held. It is my understanding, from people within the party, that emocrat party will not endorse Mr. Gibson should he choose to run in the special election.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: December 30, 2007 04:05PM

>>>Normal, as in AP<<<

Yes. In American high schools, AP is the normal curriculum. In Wales and Switzerland IB may be the normal curriculum, but it certainly isn't in the US. IB is a nice little niche program, but it is not the mainstream curriculum. No student should have IB as their main college prep curriculum, particularly if they have not CHOSEN it, but had it thrust upon them.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: December 30, 2007 05:14PM

link to video of Chantilly boundary meeting

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wusa/TQT0J6D40UE2KS1FS
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-149579719158573561

note that at around 40 minutes [drag to that point] a woman asked about missing schools and the announcer danced. stupid to even have a meeting without scenarios. With the small number of hours allocated in work sessions to something of this scope who believes the board didn't plan the scenarios?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: SLVerity ()
Date: December 30, 2007 05:22PM

Living Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you agree that Westfield is better than South
> Lake, then moving from Westfield to South Lake is
> a sacrifice.

Did I say anything about Westfield being better than South Lakes? Reread my post and please tell me where I said that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Living ()
Date: December 30, 2007 05:34PM

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Living Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If you agree that Westfield is better than
> South
> > Lake, then moving from Westfield to South Lake
> is
> > a sacrifice.
>
> Did I say anything about Westfield being better
> than South Lakes? Reread my post and please tell
> me where I said that.


I said "If you agree". SL may be a better school for you and your kids. But the majority of the parents in Floris AGREE that Westfield is a better school for their children. So moving their kids from Westfield IS considered a sacrifice to them.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 30, 2007 06:14PM

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some kids will not be able to handle being split
> from their community to go to Reston which is a
> closed community. They will be part of a very
> visible unhappy minority of kids who did not go to
> Langston Hughes. The SL cliques form in middle
> school.

My child is at South Lakes now, having gone through Langston Hughes. Many Reston elementary school classmates went on to Rachel Carson. Kids from Carson will be reunited with elementary school friends at South Lakes. Luckily the school board is looking to keep neighborhoods together through this process as much as possible.

Neither my child nor myself has noticed strong cliques at South Lakes (or Hughes). Reston kids play on sports teams, go to church and are in scouting with kids from all of the neighborhoods included in the latest scenario.


> The older South Lakes kids have been out
> announcing to PTA meetings and at boundary
> meetings that they think kids at Oakton and
> Westfield are undiverse and clique-y. Not at all
> positive (about anything except themselves) or
> welcoming, just how superior they think they are.
> I think adult influence has taken the kids very
> natural pride in thier school and turned it into
> encouraging the kids to go out and publicly
> criticize other schools and the parents of kids at
> other schools.

Did you attend an elementary school PTA meeting with South Lakes kids? Most people have had positive reactions to those presentations. When I saw them speak at LHMS they were sweet, respectful, intelligent, and went a long way towards reassuring the parents at the meeting that South Lakes was a school we wanted our children to attend.

> It is also a major curriculum change for kids who
> have started advanced math and foreign languages
> in middle school.

Why?

>
> These kids will not have their community
> available, their older siblings and older
> neighbors.

Boundary changes are hard at the beginning, but kids usually handle them well, especially if their parents are supportive.

They will not have the normal high
> school curriculum available.

In what way?

And there is a very
> dug in, unpleasant, intolerant, unyielding group
> of people running the PTSA, so there will be no
> adult support for the new non-Reston kids.

I have found the PTSA to be warm and inclusive. I know they will work to make all students feel part of the school and community.

The officers change on a yearly basis, so anyone coming in to the school is welcome to be part of the PTSA.

I've served on nominating committees, there usually isn't a lot of competition for board and chair positions. There will be a place for any and all parents, and support for all students.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 30, 2007 06:23PM

Living Wrote:
>
> If you agree that Westfield is better than South
> Lake, then moving from Westfield to South Lake is
> a sacrifice.


It may be annoying to you, it may not be what you want. But it's not a sacrifice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 30, 2007 06:29PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>Please show me one post by one ptsa member
> that was intolerant, unyielding, or
> unpleasant<<<<
>
> You didn't read Clarifier's posts?

Where did Clarifier identify as a SLPTSA member? (Hint -- nowhere)

Didn't you also read the posts
> that new parents should not think they would have
> any say in what happens at South Lakes because
> they won't? Extremely unyielding and unpleasant.

Hmm, I've read every page here and didn't notice any SL supporters say anything like that. You've written it plenty, but your reporting something doesn't make it true. Could you please post a link to your source for that information?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Living ()
Date: December 30, 2007 06:55PM

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Living Wrote:
> >
> > If you agree that Westfield is better than
> South
> > Lake, then moving from Westfield to South Lake
> is
> > a sacrifice.
>
>
> It may be annoying to you, it may not be what you
> want. But it's not a sacrifice.

You can not deny the fact that Westfield is perceived higher value than South Lake to Floris Parents. Otherwise the wouldn't be this much fiasco. What do you call forcing people giving up higher value and adopting lower value? If not sacrifice, then robbery?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 30, 2007 07:29PM

Living Wrote:
>
> You can not deny the fact that Westfield is
> perceived higher value than South Lake to Floris
> Parents. Otherwise the wouldn't be this much
> fiasco. What do you call forcing people giving up
> higher value and adopting lower value? If not
> sacrifice, then robbery?


They purchased their homes in a county school system, that has an obligation to provide an equitable education all students. There are no guaranteed boundaries in the study areas. They don't own the right to attend Westfield, so it can't be stolen from them.

If South Lakes is perceived as a lower value, then the perceptions may need changing.

The students are being asked to attend a very good school, in one of the best school systems in this country. Anyone who perceives that attending this school is a sacrifice is not really looking at South Lakes, or doesn't understand the meaning of sacrifice.

Please, contact the office at South Lakes High School and ask to tour the school. There is nothing to fear if you are redistricted, your children will get a great education and be welcomed into the school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Retro ()
Date: December 30, 2007 07:30PM

Neen said:
"That is NOT the case since GT centers were expanded from 4.5% to 14%. Many of the current GT students do NOT speak English and many need remedial help in English and/or math. Many of them are also now FRL. The GT office gets most of their funding through their 'Young Scholars" program which is designed to place more Blacks, Hispanics, and children in poverty, into GT centers. The population at GT centers has changed dramatically over the last 10 to 15 years. Every GT center has remedial classes to help children who are 'potentially gifted' but have not yet received their gifts."

Neen, have you even looked at the county site that describes the GT programs or talked to someone involved? I've seen you rant on this before. You seem to be mixing apples and oranges. If you did study up, you'd see that there are four levels to the county's gifted program. Only the top level (Level IV) qualifies as a center and has kids bused; this is what I would consider GT immersion and it covers all topics. I think of it as the expensive GT. However, you present things as if all the GT kids were usurping space/services/food in centers and going to heck in a handbasket.

Most of the rest of the GT kids are in relatively inexpensive classroom pull out programs (or enrichments given to their classroom teachers), but only for specific subjects like math or reading in my experience. You are quite mistaken if you think that the kids in the Young Scholars (Level II GT) program are less than bright. They are in the program because their IQs tested at "merely" 125 instead of the 132 needed for a GT Center placement. They are considered for the program because of some valid obstacle which may have impaired their test taking abilities. For my son, it is mild dyslexia, even though FCPS wrongly chooses to not recognize dyslexia as a learning issue. Yeah, he's a white kid who is a Young Scholar, speaks fluent English, and is not on FRL; your broad characterization is off.

Each YS that I know comes from an academically motivated family, even if their first language wasn't English. The kids get pulled out for specific subjects because they are bright, not because they are needy; their heightened talents deserve the extra development. That said, a kid pulled out for excellence in reading might require extra help in math, but it is a matter of gifts differing, not a redundancy or waste of gifted training/center space or an indicator of their race/socioeconomic status. We all had strengths and weaknesses in school, I'm sure, regardless of race or country of origin.

I hope you'll present the overall program better next time. All kids aren't in centers, they don't receive special busing/expensive provisions, they're not generally (edit: meaning all) on FRL, and they often have GT for only a subject or two in conjunction with a regular classroom. It is a lot more simple and less clandestine than you make it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2007 09:06PM by Retro.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: December 30, 2007 07:50PM

Retro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen said:
> "That is NOT the case since GT centers were
> expanded from 4.5% to 14%. Many of the current GT
> students do NOT speak English and many need
> remedial help in English and/or math. Many of them
> are also now FRL. The GT office gets most of their
> funding through their 'Young Scholars" program
> which is designed to place more Blacks, Hispanics,
> and children in poverty, into GT centers. The
> population at GT centers has changed dramatically
> over the last 10 to 15 years. Every GT center has
> remedial classes to help children who are
> 'potentially gifted' but have not yet received
> their gifts."
>
> Neen, have you even looked at the county site that
> describes the GT programs or talked to someone
> involved? I've seen you rant on this before. You
> seem to be mixing apples and oranges. If you did
> study up, you'd see that there are four levels to
> the county's gifted program. Only the top level
> (Level IV) qualifies as a center and has kids
> bused; this is what I would consider GT immersion
> and it covers all topics. I think of it as the
> expensive GT. However, you present things as if
> all the GT kids were usurping space/services/food
> in centers and going to heck in a handbasket.
>
> Most of the rest of the GT kids are in relatively
> inexpensive classroom pull out programs (or
> enrichments given to their classroom teachers),
> but only for specific subjects like math or
> reading in my experience. You are quite mistaken
> if you think that the kids in the Young Scholars
> (Level II GT) program are less than bright. They
> are in the program because their IQs tested at
> "merely" 125 instead of the 132 needed for a GT
> Center placement. They are considered for the
> program because of some valid obstacle which may
> have impaired their test taking abilities. For my
> son, it is mild dyslexia, even though FCPS wrongly
> chooses to not recognize dyslexia as a learning
> issue. Yeah, he's a white kid who is a Young
> Scholar, speaks fluent English, and is not on FRL;
> your broad characterization is off.
>
> Each YS that I know comes from an academically
> motivated family, even if their first language
> wasn't English. The kids get pulled out for
> specific subjects because they are bright, not
> because they are needy; their heightened talents
> deserve the extra development. That said, a kid
> pulled out for excellence in reading might require
> extra help in math, but it is a matter of gifts
> differing, not a redundancy or waste of gifted
> training/center space or an indicator of their
> race/socioeconomic status. We all had strengths
> and weaknesses in school, I'm sure, regardless of
> race or country of origin.
>
> I hope you'll present the overall program better
> next time. All kids aren't in centers, they don't
> receive special busing/expensive provisions,
> they're not generally on FRL, and they often have
> GT for only a subject or two in conjunction with a
> regular classroom. It is a lot more simple and
> less clandestine than you make it.


Can you please advise me as to where I can find out the percentage
of FRL in the GT program?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Retro ()
Date: December 30, 2007 08:00PM

Ask Neen. She's the numbers person. I can only vouch for the kids in the program that I know and none are on FRL. That's not to say that some others are; I only know what I know. From my experience, it is an unfair, broad generalization for GT or YS kids. There is no such thing as "all."

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: assessingSL ()
Date: December 30, 2007 08:12PM

That's a nice assessment of the situation....however, I have to agree with Living, people buy where they "perceived" to be the best of what their tax dollars can offer based on where they chose to have a house. Since they didn't buy in "Reston", they feel cheated, and who can blame them? Everything is based on "perception" and no matter how cleaned and improved SL may be in the meanwhile, think about it....since its principal is so great, he may be offered new opportunities in a different school, and you are back to square one. It will take SEVERAL years for South Lakes to turn around and become a competitive school...just bringing "advantage students" may improve its score, but it can be a "catch 22"....school start catering to the new ones, and they ones that need remedial courses are left behind.

FCPS must give equal resources to all its schools, but it cannot be accomplished with "hand pick/advantage students" ....not only this situation creates resentment, but it could backfire, just like Midcounty...SB should know better!


Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Living Wrote:
> >
> > You can not deny the fact that Westfield is
> > perceived higher value than South Lake to
> Floris
> > Parents. Otherwise the wouldn't be this much
> > fiasco. What do you call forcing people giving
> up
> > higher value and adopting lower value? If not
> > sacrifice, then robbery?
>
>
> They purchased their homes in a county school
> system, that has an obligation to provide an
> equitable education all students. There are no
> guaranteed boundaries in the study areas. They
> don't own the right to attend Westfield, so it
> can't be stolen from them.
>
> If South Lakes is perceived as a lower value, then
> the perceptions may need changing.
>
> The students are being asked to attend a very good
> school, in one of the best school systems in this
> country. Anyone who perceives that attending this
> school is a sacrifice is not really looking at
> South Lakes, or doesn't understand the meaning of
> sacrifice.
>
> Please, contact the office at South Lakes High
> School and ask to tour the school. There is
> nothing to fear if you are redistricted, your
> children will get a great education and be
> welcomed into the school.

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: samgee ()
Date: December 30, 2007 08:21PM

It is very hard to distinguish FRL from non-FRL as everything is computerized and bar-coded in the school cafeterias. It is not like handing over food stamps.
Aside from asking each student in the GT program if they are FRL, how do you know their status?

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Living ()
Date: December 30, 2007 08:58PM

>
> If South Lakes is perceived as a lower value, then
> the perceptions may need changing.
>
> The students are being asked to attend a very good
> school, in one of the best school systems in this
> country. Anyone who perceives that attending this
> school is a sacrifice is not really looking at
> South Lakes, or doesn't understand the meaning of
> sacrifice.
>

Perception that needs change and reality is not the same. Also different people have different perception of SL. You can not force other people to have the same value perception as yours.

The reality is if Floris parents treasure their kids' education most, they will avoid SL at all means if their perception is that SL is worse than other high schools. And these kids are the most "Advantaged".

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Re: high school redistricting
Posted by: Restonian ()
Date: December 30, 2007 09:25PM

assessingSL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS must give equal resources to all its schools,
> but it cannot be accomplished with "hand
> pick/advantage students" ....
>
The current scenario involves sending the neighborhoods closest to South Lakes to South Lakes without creating new attendance islands (like moving Crossfield would do.)

It moves the least amount of students, and has the least amount of domino effect of any scenario discussed.

It doesn't involved hand picking advantaged students. It makes the most sense looking at the map, the schools involved in the study, and the criteria of the study.

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