> They just didn't know any better. They're just kids,
> very nice and very polite, kids, who don't know
> all the other issues.

Actually, the children who may be affected DO understand the important issues. The only one with which they are not involved is the artificial issue of falling property values. It has no relation to the quality of a child's education. We adults have poisoned the well of discourse with it, and I certainly see no reason to qualify these children as being naive for their lack of interest in that bugbear.

While I greatly sympathize with all of us who might be redistricted for some of the previously stated reasons, I do not sympathize with anyone's indulgence in greed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 10:07AM by Berdhuis.

I disagree. The South Lakes students are repeating what they have been told. They have been told that they are diverse and that other schools are not. They have been told that people have great and unreasonable fears of South Lakes. They have been told that they are morally superior to the parents in other school districts.

One nervous young man from South Lakes was in my room in the Dec. 3 boundary meeting. He was trying to lay out school districts for schools he had never seen. He couldn't find some of the districts on the boundary map. He had no idea of the distance or the major roads to be crossed. He was speaking from a prepared list that had been given to him and was well out of his depth.

This kids are not being asked to be separated from their classmates and siblings to go to school in another community. I don't think it is right for them to be out publically demeaning other schools. Nor is it right for them trying to dictate which kids will be forced to leave their communities to spend their high school years as outsiders in a school where the students are biased against them because of the neighborhood that they live in.



Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually, the children DO understand the important
> issues. The only one with which they are not
> involved is the artificial issue of falling
> property values. It has no relation to the quality
> of a child's education. We adults have poisoned
> the well of discourse with it, and I certainly see
> no reason to qualify children as being naive for
> their lack of interest in that bugbear.
>
>

imabulldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey the VA shooter was redistricted to
> Westfield.
> > Who knows, maybe redistricting is too much for
> > someone on the edge...
> > Jester Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Westfields is a great school. Fairfax
> Counties
> > #1
> > > Zanex school. It produces some the finest
> > psycho
> > > shooters in the state of Va.
> > >
> > > Both the Va Tech and FFX County Policeman
> > shooters
> > > were from Westfield HS.
>
>
>
>
> That is one of the most disgusting comments I have
> seen on this page. The shooting has absolutely
> NOTHING to do with the redistricting, at all. Oh
> and, those kids snapped AFTER THEY LEFT Westfield.
> It is not at the fault of Westfield (it has to due
> with the privacy laws, actually) for what those
> two students have done and how dare you throw that
> nasty comment out there, offending all the members
> of the community, faculty, and students that were
> hurt by those two events.
>
>
>
> So, what went on at the meeting tonight? I decided
> not to attend.

If you want offensive take a good look at all the people posting here who want to pick and choose who their kids associate with; Mainly based on ethnic or economic status.

You should all be ashamed!

I am associated with Floris by choice.....I am can tell you that most of the people affected will NOT send their kids to SL, they will make whatever sacrifice they have to make in order to place them in a school that offers AP, and this statement has NOTHING to do with socio-economics,race and diversity, contrary to most people assume....we are no better than you, but we want the best of what this county offers. So to all of SLPTA: you gained NOTHING, and shame on all of you!! Parents will do WHATEVER is best for their children....NO AP...NO SOUTH LAKES!

MERRY, MERRY CHRISTMAS to you all, and STU....NOW IS TIME TO CLEAN UP YOUR IMAGE!

Maybe it's all a conspiracy by the realtors to drum up sales during this bad economy!

Just don't forget that if you buy another house in the FAIRFAX COUNTY School District, that it is indeed the FAIRFAX COUNTY School District!!

Me loser? we'll see Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
this statement has
> NOTHING to do with socio-economics,race and
> diversity, contrary to most people assume


Bullshit!

I love this place! Where else can students enjoy free and reduced meals while they watch television on their BRAND NEW plasma screens - - at school!

Thank You taxpayers!

Why is it the SL posters are the only ones screaming racism? They say they are culturally diverse, so it really shouldn't matter to them, but obviously, it does.......

Check out the cafeteria at SL at lunch - -now thats diversity! Each to their own table!

Thomas More Wrote:
For those of you who considering joining the SL Boundary Study Group be advised:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I, not Elizabeth nor Maria, removed you from the South Lakes Boundary study group. It is not a PTSA group. I am the owner and a moderator of the
group . . . I am not so kind and did. You are welcome to rejoin the group if you can refrain from posting negative items on Fairfax Underground
about South Lakes, Bruce Butler, .......... IB, the PTSA including Maria and Elizabeth, and the South Lakes Boundary Study group.

. . . . . . it is not acceptable for members of this group to air these grievances in a public manner....
The South Lakes Boundary group Moderator
If you can refrain from posting negative things on
FFX underground, you can rejoin.

Sheryl Cosing
not a PTSA member”
--------------------------_________________________------------------------------
Thomas More Wrote:

Thank you Comrade Cosing for making clear to all
of the SL, East Floris and Fox Mill parents what
your Poliboro’s rules for participation in your
own personal little Gulag are.

If my namesake could give his life in the service
of freedom of thought, freedom of speech and
freedom of conscience, I can forgo your tyranny if
it is the price of the privilege of participating
in your precious little yahoo cliche.

The kids of SL aren’t clicky but obviously some SL
parents are.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The South Lakes PTSA President, Elizabeth, might not have been the one to kick you out but she sure is in charge of letting someone in!!

I rec'd the below...........naturally, I am not a member...didn't know it was specifically an advocacy group....Thought it was another boundary forum...I am not an advocate so didn't continue the application process...


Hi—

I am Elizabeth Vandenburg, parent at SLHS.

I got your email to join the yahoo group. It’s not an issue of qualifying but the group has a specific purpose. We are a group of parents in the South Lakes pyramid who strongly support redistricting. We are advocating for South Lakes High School .

This is not an anonymous group. We post with our full names.

If you would like to tell me your name and if you are interested in supporting our efforts I am happy to send you an invitation.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth

>>>>Bruce Butler has just been named the Reston Times Citizen of the Year!<<<<<

With an honor like that bestowed by such a prestigious literary guild, he won't be sticking around SL too much longer then.

WestfieldMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I disagree. The South Lakes students are
> repeating what they have been told.

WestfieldMom,

Thank you for correcting me. I should have specified the children in my last post as "the children who may be redistricted". In all three of the meetings we attended, all of the potentially affected children had meaningful insight and valid reasons for opposing redistricting. Those who spoke of South Lakes had only positive comments - none were negative.

Those South Lakes students in our rooms had constructive ideas for their school, and none who I observed had any negative comments about other students, schools nor redistricting. I observed no 'party line' being pulled.

OneCounty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe it's all a conspiracy by the realtors to
> drum up sales during this bad economy!
>
> Just don't forget that if you buy another house in
> the FAIRFAX COUNTY School District, that it is
> indeed the FAIRFAX COUNTY School District!!


Funny that you said that....Back in the early summer, I was checking different neighborhoods for open houses, you know, curious to see who was moving and to go to their homes to check them out, what upgrades they made and so forth, and I noticed back then that some agents listed the school districts, and some (Weichert, Long and Foster) posted a statement about high school saying: contact your school board....interesting, uh? The neighbors affected were Monroe Manor, Fox Mill, Monterrey Estates, Sycamore Lakes, just to name a few. That was a huge clue of what was yet to come....in other words, they already were aware (maybe) who was affected. I bet a million bucks that was the case....as we can see now.

I also called some schools (Rachel Carson was one of them) and talked to the secretaries....some claimed that did not have a clue and referred me to the counselors. I spoke with one of them and challenge him/her to tell me what he/she knew because school websites had invited speakers from South Lakes back in February to talk about the IB program....so I speculate that they were told into secrecy (maybe)...I will give them the benefit of the doubt, but the handwritting was all over the place.

One of my children is not affected because is already in high school, but the other one will be...thank God we have a few years to worry about it, we are in a wait and see....when the time comes, we'll decide to either pupil place or catholic school, which is more than likely. Nothing personal, but we prefer AP, and no, we are not worry in the least about diversity: my own family is a rainbow from the United Nations either by in-laws or choice, so we already experience differences among ourselves and it has been great for my own kids, so we don't need anyone to trumpet about exposure to other cultures and living in the real world: we celebrate it every day.

deletion



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 10:06AM by Berdhuis.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WestfieldMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I disagree. The South Lakes students are
> > repeating what they have been told.
>
> WestfieldMom,
>
> Thank you for correcting me. I should have
> specified the children in my last post as "the
> children who may be redistricted". In all three of
> the meetings we attended, all of the potentially
> affected children had meaningful insight and valid
> reasons for opposing redistricting. Those who
> spoke of South Lakes had only positive comments -
> none were negative.
>
> Those South Lakes students in our rooms had
> constructive ideas for their school, and none who
> I observed had any negative comments about other
> students, schools nor redistricting. I observed no
> 'party line' being pulled.


The Oakton HS kids who wrote the Oakton Outlook story and editorial about what they saw at South Lakes? They actually just pulled over at Starbucks and mailed in their story, based on what the South Lakes parents told them.

They were "just repeating what they were told."

You folks (not Berdhuis) are grasping. Trying to beat on kids. Shame on you.

Listen to them. They (from all the HS) have much more class than you are showing, and they'll make anything work, whether or not you act like grown-ups.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>I'm sure the East Floris and Fox Mill parents
> can't wait to be subjected to this authoritarian
> crowd.
>
> "You will be absorbed, resistance is futile"<<<
>
> I think everyone's received that message by now.
> I saw lots of negative comments posted about South
> Lakes PTSA at the meeting tonight.

Guess what Neen, we were almost introduced last night. I missed you by seconds!

Do you think your small group was a valid statistical sampling? In my group, each and every Herndon and McNair parent held in their hands a copy of the South Lakes Boundary Group talking points and used them liberally. In addition, they commented on how well thought out and helpful they were. Even the MI parent had to admit that our 3.5-mile radius map was compelling. They also gave many kudos to SL for being so proactive. So, whose room was more representative?

Incidentally, how do you know that SL is not advocating for AP classes being added. That was actually brought up last night in several groups and incoming parents were encouraged to include in their comments their wishes for certain AP classes to be added.

Merry Christmas to you, Neen, and many blessings for the New Year.

SLVerify,
Can you show me where does Floris fall in the 3.5mi radius? I couldn't find it on google/yahoo maps. No bird fly route please.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >>>>I'm sure the East Floris and Fox Mill
> parents
> > can't wait to be subjected to this
> authoritarian
> > crowd.
> >
> > "You will be absorbed, resistance is futile"<<<
> >
> > I think everyone's received that message by now.
>
> > I saw lots of negative comments posted about
> South
> > Lakes PTSA at the meeting tonight.
>
> Guess what Neen, we were almost introduced last
> night. I missed you by seconds!
>
> Do you think your small group was a valid
> statistical sampling? In my group, each and every
> Herndon and McNair parent held in their hands a
> copy of the South Lakes Boundary Group talking
> points and used them liberally. In addition, they
> commented on how well thought out and helpful they
> were. Even the MI parent had to admit that our
> 3.5-mile radius map was compelling. They also
> gave many kudos to SL for being so proactive. So,
> whose room was more representative?
>
> Incidentally, how do you know that SL is not
> advocating for AP classes being added. That was
> actually brought up last night in several groups
> and incoming parents were encouraged to include in
> their comments their wishes for certain AP classes
> to be added.
>
> Merry Christmas to you, Neen, and many blessings
> for the New Year.

All I have to say is, watching you people carry on like this makes me glad you aren't my neighbors.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerify,
> Can you show me where does Floris fall in the
> 3.5mi radius? I couldn't find it on google/yahoo
> maps. No bird fly route please.
>
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >>>>I'm sure the East Floris and Fox Mill
> > parents
> > > can't wait to be subjected to this
> > authoritarian
> > > crowd.
> > >
> > > "You will be absorbed, resistance is
> futile"<<<
> > >
> > > I think everyone's received that message by
> now.
> >
> > > I saw lots of negative comments posted about
> > South
> > > Lakes PTSA at the meeting tonight.
> >
> > Guess what Neen, we were almost introduced last
> > night. I missed you by seconds!
> >
> > Do you think your small group was a valid
> > statistical sampling? In my group, each and
> every
> > Herndon and McNair parent held in their hands a
> > copy of the South Lakes Boundary Group talking
> > points and used them liberally. In addition,
> they
> > commented on how well thought out and helpful
> they
> > were. Even the MI parent had to admit that our
> > 3.5-mile radius map was compelling. They also
> > gave many kudos to SL for being so proactive.
> So,
> > whose room was more representative?
> >
> > Incidentally, how do you know that SL is not
> > advocating for AP classes being added. That
> was
> > actually brought up last night in several
> groups
> > and incoming parents were encouraged to include
> in
> > their comments their wishes for certain AP
> classes
> > to be added.
> >
> > Merry Christmas to you, Neen, and many
> blessings
> > for the New Year.


Floris - I tried to post it once but don't know how to do html. Go the southlakes ptsa website and you'll see it. http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/3mile.pdf

Part of Floris is in the 3 -mile radius of South Lakes and Herndon but not Westfield. I'm assuming, from the map, that you're in a geographic no-man's land and that's why you've been subjected to redistricting in this and previous studies. Additionally, it's one of the few areas that isn't built out.

You'll note that some of the current South Lakes boundary is outside the 3-mile radius specifically Forest Edge Elementary school. But clearly Fox Mill part of Crossfield, part of Aldrin, part of Floris, and part of McNair (the industrial part with no students) are three miles from South Lakes. We are in South Lakes district and it is about 4.5 miles to the school. The Madison Island is clearly within the 3-mile radius and much further to Madison.

Floris - trying to post the file.
Attachments:

One of the main reason why most folks don't want to go to SLHS is becoz they don't offer AP. I am sure IB is just as great a program, but a lot of the kids that are being moved to SLHS prefer AP.

Old Timer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLVerify,
> > Can you show me where does Floris fall in the
> > 3.5mi radius? I couldn't find it on
> google/yahoo
> > maps. No bird fly route please.
> >
> > SLVerity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Neen Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > >>>>I'm sure the East Floris and Fox Mill
> > > parents
> > > > can't wait to be subjected to this
> > > authoritarian
> > > > crowd.
> > > >
> > > > "You will be absorbed, resistance is
> > futile"<<<
> > > >
> > > > I think everyone's received that message by
> > now.
> > >
> > > > I saw lots of negative comments posted
> about
> > > South
> > > > Lakes PTSA at the meeting tonight.
> > >
> > > Guess what Neen, we were almost introduced
> last
> > > night. I missed you by seconds!
> > >
> > > Do you think your small group was a valid
> > > statistical sampling? In my group, each and
> > every
> > > Herndon and McNair parent held in their hands
> a
> > > copy of the South Lakes Boundary Group
> talking
> > > points and used them liberally. In addition,
> > they
> > > commented on how well thought out and helpful
> > they
> > > were. Even the MI parent had to admit that
> our
> > > 3.5-mile radius map was compelling. They
> also
> > > gave many kudos to SL for being so proactive.
>
> > So,
> > > whose room was more representative?
> > >
> > > Incidentally, how do you know that SL is not
> > > advocating for AP classes being added. That
> > was
> > > actually brought up last night in several
> > groups
> > > and incoming parents were encouraged to
> include
> > in
> > > their comments their wishes for certain AP
> > classes
> > > to be added.
> > >
> > > Merry Christmas to you, Neen, and many
> > blessings
> > > for the New Year.
>
>
> Floris - I tried to post it once but don't know
> how to do html. Go the southlakes ptsa website
> and you'll see it.
> http://www.southlakesptsa.org/boundaries/3mile.pdf
>
>
> Part of Floris is in the 3 -mile radius of South
> Lakes and Herndon but not Westfield. I'm
> assuming, from the map, that you're in a
> geographic no-man's land and that's why you've
> been subjected to redistricting in this and
> previous studies. Additionally, it's one of the
> few areas that isn't built out.
>
> You'll note that some of the current South Lakes
> boundary is outside the 3-mile radius specifically
> Forest Edge Elementary school. But clearly Fox
> Mill part of Crossfield, part of Aldrin, part of
> Floris, and part of McNair (the industrial part
> with no students) are three miles from South
> Lakes. We are in South Lakes district and it is
> about 4.5 miles to the school. The Madison Island
> is clearly within the 3-mile radius and much
> further to Madison.


The 3-mile radius only applies to people that live near the bordering area of the South Lakes district. If you live on West Ox road near Floris, it is actually 6.5 miles because I drove it myself yesterday. Talk about cooking the books!

3.5 is what I drive myself from my house to the Herndon-Monroy park and ride and I don't even cross Fairfax County Parkway....so don't BS me about the so called 3- mile radius to SL.

The County has been a bit slow in taking documents from the SL PTSA web site and posting them on theirs. You will note it took about two weeks to them to post Option 5 on their website. SL PTSA had it prior to Meeting 2. I expect that the radius charts will be posted shortly after the first of the year.

Keep visiting the SL PTSA website for updates. They should have the final recommendation to the board in a few days.

vrj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the main reason why most folks don't want
> to go to SLHS is becoz they don't offer AP. I am
> sure IB is just as great a program, but a lot of
> the kids that are being moved to SLHS prefer AP.

That's why many in the South Lakes community are lobbying for AP classes to be added. IB is excellent when it comes to writing, literature, and history, but could be strengthened in the areas of math. If you are in an affected neighborhood, I encourage you to include your wishes for AP in your comments to the School Board. You are in a good position to ask.

Old Timer,
Children have to travel on roads, not by direct lines, correct?

The information provided on the SL url is misleading to be the least. I understand SLS PSTA's ambition, but can we use correct numbers? I cannot find any address with Floris with travel distance less than 4.4 mile.

I would say the majority of affect Floris students' travel distance is reduced by about 1 mile. And I'm not sure whether that really save anything if you add traffic to the scenario.

Anyways, please use correct data. To the minimum, when misleading data is broadcast again and again to be listed as a major accomplishment, it does raise resentment from affected communities.

SLVerity Wrote:
> ... how do you know that SL is not
> advocating for AP classes being added. That was
> actually brought up last night in several groups
> and incoming parents were encouraged to include in
> their comments their wishes for certain AP classes
> to be added.
-----------------
For newer readers of this forum, I will state again:
- If you want AP, then eject IB, as Woodson did. With the limited resources of FCPS, you cannot have both programs in the same school.
- AP classes ARE offered on a “pick and choose” basis, but IB is a pervasive program that causes the loss or overcrowding of other courses.
- Even giant Robinson, the largest IB school in the state and perhaps the world, can only support half a dozen AP courses, none of them BC Calculus.
- The IB Diploma Program (DP) in actuality allows a very limited choice of courses in any one school. In essence the school’s entire Master Schedule must revolve around the requirements of the few DP students. DP students’ classes MUST be taught, even if less than a handful of students sign up for them. Since most school systems are strapped for cash, that means the classes of other students are either eliminated or overcrowded.

This focus on IB Diploma Candidates, in conjunction with a full-time staff member just to coordinate their programme, often leads to a charge of elitism, a charge even the IBO acknowledges when it states that with “increasing student achievement in the basic areas, such as reading, math, and science, marginal students may not have an opportunity to take the IB program. Implication: This could exacerbate the perception that IB is an “elitist” program for high student achievers.” [“Expanding Access: Addressing The IBO Mission In North America - International Baccalaureate North America Strategic Plan." International Baccalaureate Organization. July 2004. p. 7]

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The County has been a bit slow in taking documents
> from the SL PTSA web site and posting them on
> theirs. You will note it took about two weeks to
> them to post Option 5 on their website. SL PTSA
> had it prior to Meeting 2. I expect that the
> radius charts will be posted shortly after the
> first of the year.
>
> Keep visiting the SL PTSA website for updates.
> They should have the final recommendation to the
> board in a few days.

Word, I am so impressed that you think we wield so much power. Did you know that we rigged the last SB election by posting super-secret information on our web site? We also are in the process of lobbying to have our taxes reduced since we are clearly in an undesirable real-estate district, and have recommended a 30% reduction for anyone living in the SL Pyramid, regardless of home sale value. Early indications are that we are winning this one too, which is great for me because my exact house just sold in North Point for less that a comparable one sold here in the same week.

We will also be posting talking points documents for the upcoming primaries in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. Those will then be disseminated to later primary states.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerify,
> Can you show me where does Floris fall in the
> 3.5mi radius? I couldn't find it on google/yahoo
> maps. No bird fly route please.
>
You see "Floris," you have to use the STOOGLE maps to find this 3.5 mile radius. It is probably only available to the South Lakes PTSA members.

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> > ... how do you know that SL is not
> > advocating for AP classes being added. That
> was
> > actually brought up last night in several
> groups
> > and incoming parents were encouraged to include
> in
> > their comments their wishes for certain AP
> classes
> > to be added.
> -----------------
> For newer readers of this forum, I will state
> again:
> - If you want AP, then eject IB, as Woodson did.
> With the limited resources of FCPS, you cannot
> have both programs in the same school.
> - AP classes ARE offered on a “pick and choose”
> basis, but IB is a pervasive program that causes
> the loss or overcrowding of other courses.
> - Even giant Robinson, the largest IB school in
> the state and perhaps the world, can only support
> half a dozen AP courses, none of them BC
> Calculus.
> - The IB Diploma Program (DP) in actuality allows
> a very limited choice of courses in any one
> school. In essence the school’s entire Master
> Schedule must revolve around the requirements of
> the few DP students. DP students’ classes MUST be
> taught, even if less than a handful of students
> sign up for them. Since most school systems are
> strapped for cash, that means the classes of other
> students are either eliminated or overcrowded.
>
> This focus on IB Diploma Candidates, in
> conjunction with a full-time staff member just to
> coordinate their programme, often leads to a
> charge of elitism, a charge even the IBO
> acknowledges when it states that with “increasing
> student achievement in the basic areas, such as
> reading, math, and science, marginal students may
> not have an opportunity to take the IB program.
> Implication: This could exacerbate the perception
> that IB is an “elitist” program for high student
> achievers.” [“Expanding Access: Addressing The IBO
> Mission In North America - International
> Baccalaureate North America Strategic Plan."
> International Baccalaureate Organization. July
> 2004. p. 7]

Keep beating your dead horse. We've heard it all before. Tell me, which school(s) were you lobbying for at the meeting last night? Did you lobby for your community school?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The County has been a bit slow in taking documents
> from the SL PTSA web site and posting them on
> theirs. You will note it took about two weeks to
> them to post Option 5 on their website. SL PTSA
> had it prior to Meeting 2. I expect that the
> radius charts will be posted shortly after the
> first of the year.
>
> Keep visiting the SL PTSA website for updates.
> They should have the final recommendation to the
> board in a few days.

And I imagine that South Lakes' PTSA will soon post their screening and approval process for pupil placement applications.

Please don't lobby too hard for AP at SL. The school board gave us an out - and we're taking it!

This is to SLverity too.
Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer,
> Children have to travel on roads, not by direct
> lines, correct?
>
> The information provided on the SL url is
> misleading to be the least. I understand SLS
> PSTA's ambition, but can we use correct numbers? I
> cannot find any address with Floris with travel
> distance less than 4.4 mile.
>
> I would say the majority of affect Floris
> students' travel distance is reduced by about 1
> mile. And I'm not sure whether that really save
> anything if you add traffic to the scenario.
>
> Anyways, please use correct data. To the minimum,
> when misleading data is broadcast again and again
> to be listed as a major accomplishment, it does
> raise resentment from affected communities.

Floris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Timer,
> Children have to travel on roads, not by direct
> lines, correct?
>
> The information provided on the SL url is
> misleading to be the least. I understand SLS
> PSTA's ambition, but can we use correct numbers? I
> cannot find any address with Floris with travel
> distance less than 4.4 mile.
>
> I would say the majority of affect Floris
> students' travel distance is reduced by about 1
> mile. And I'm not sure whether that really save
> anything if you add traffic to the scenario.
>
> Anyways, please use correct data. To the minimum,
> when misleading data is broadcast again and again
> to be listed as a major accomplishment, it does
> raise resentment from affected communities.

Noticed some skullduggery


read the SL's options and what they would change in each option with particular attention to #4. SL's admits Herndon HS will not allow Aldrin to leave. I think the author is in northen Reston - must have experience with those folks. Seems this pre-determination is driving a lot of this process.

Floris- the current boundaries include Dulles - that could be attached to any elementary school and it is very suspeicious that they choose Floris - just to say No Island?

Keep digging the hole.

I have friends living in Bradley(sp) Farms and Monroe Manor/Sycamore Lakes areas. I live literally next door to SLHS. I can promise you it takes me 10-12 minutes to reach their homes. I drove to Westfield for the last meeting by way of the areas indicated on option 5 moving to SL. From the area furthest out (from SL), it took me 23+ minutes to reach Westfield,and I had to cross several major roads. Unfortunately for Floris, much of the area is not really close to any high school, which is too bad for the Floris area, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I just think it explains why your area has been targeted many times. My friends in Loudon have experienced similar moves. I guess it is always the case in areas with fast and high growth.

SLVerity Wrote:
> ... Keep beating your dead horse. We've heard it all
> before. ...

--
None are so blind as those who will not see. It is sad that you will not see that most families in the County prefer the curriculum offered in AP high schools, and for a variety of reasons.

It is also sad that the South Lakes parents who post here consider this a "dead horse" issue. This redistricting might be more acceptable if you would at least consider ejecting IB. "Grandfather" your current Diploma Candidates, but get rid of pre-IB courses in preparation for a full AP curriculum.

skullduggery :
-------------------------------------------------------
No skullduggery, just not fair to Herndon to strip them of one of the two schools in their pyramid that made AYP last year and sub in portions of a Title I school now at Westfield. Believe me, we wish that the County had never districted North Point to Herndon. That was actually a real negative for us, as it totally upset the socio-economic balance of the Reston Master Plan. The funny thing is, that even years after the move (until just a few years ago) South Lakes outpaced Henrdon on SAT scores, despite the fact that SL had more FRM students. So I never understood why Aldrin wanted to be at Herndon, but I think we can thank the developers and realtors selling North Point for that. They billed it as 'exclusive' North Reston, and tried very hard to delineate it from South Reston. Too bad for us.

"IB is excellent when it comes to writing"

WRONG

IB does not teach students how to write. The posts at this site written by IB students were incredibly long winded and poorly constructed, with the constant repetition of ideas. They all would have received failing grades by any decent English teacher.

SL Verity,
Here's a little analogy for ya. We'd rather drive 3 miles for Starbucks coffee, than 0.5 miles for 7-11. Some things are just worth doing, no matter the inconvenience.

Just a question: do you ever try to drive to SL from Floris area during morning rush hour?

Northbound Fairfax County Pkwy, Northbound Reston Pkwy within miles of the Dullus Toll Road are already jammed in the morning, move more kids from Floris community will only worsen the situation.

Going to Westfield is against the morning traffic, which actually takes less time than going to SL.

SL Verity,
Apparently, even by your own math and driving times, you have indeed verified that WF is just as close to your friends home in Floris, as it is to SL. Thanks!

Forum Reader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> > ... Keep beating your dead horse. We've heard
> it all
> > before. ...
>
> --
> None are so blind as those who will not see. It is
> sad that you will not see that most families in
> the County prefer the curriculum offered in AP
> high schools, and for a variety of reasons.
>
> It is also sad that the South Lakes parents who
> post here consider this a "dead horse" issue. This
> redistricting might be more acceptable if you
> would at least consider ejecting IB. "Grandfather"
> your current Diploma Candidates, but get rid of
> pre-IB courses in preparation for a full AP
> curriculum.

Baby steps, FR, Baby steps. I wish you would spend your energies lobbying the County to lobby IB to determine what it is about the program that makes some courses less acceptable than AP to some universities and lobbying for more equal credit (I believe Bernie Glaze was in the process of doing that when she became ill). You know, asking the County to back up the programs that they have put in place. I'll bet you could make inroads there with all of the data that you have compiled.

Look at the English Writing and Reading SOL scores for FRM children at South Lakes. I think you will see that they do quite well relative to other schools (including AP) in the County. In that area I believe IB is very strong. My children, both now in college, indicate that they have no trouble writing 10-12 page papers. Perhaps their IB education served them well in that regard.

You didn't tell me which school you were lobbying for last night, btw.:)

I sent the following e-mail to Stu Gibson and cc'd the rest of the Ffx County School Board members. If anyone here knows how to go about Recalling a school board official, please inform.

Mr. Gibson,

I have read about the possibility of a recall for your position and I would like to ask you and/or any of the other School Board Members to please explain how Fairfax County voters can pursue this option. Based on what I have read on various message boards, blogs, newspaper articles, etc., you are extremely unpopular. It seems to many that you have a personal agenda for forcing this redistricting plan down our throats, whereby unnecessarily disrupting hundreds of families, for your reason du jour. I resent you telling me where my children should go to school, when you are not prepared to send Reston residents to the Reston based high school. I moved from Reston to Fox Mill in 2006 precisely so that my kids would be in the Oakton High School district; our other consideration was Madison High School. You have mustered-up many unfounded/unjustified/lame reasons for redistricting, in hopes that one reason will stick. This process seems to be a unilateral Stu'pid' Gibson plan. Who and where are the thousands of people who support this plan? I certainly know there are thousands who are against it. Over the past several months when I have been out-and-about (dinner, Starbucks, standing in line, etc.), I have overheard people discussing their outrage... it is literally The Talk of the Town and I have not met one person who is in favor of your plan; I have only heard outrage, anger, and disgust.

You don't want to listen to us, as was witnessed by you literally sitting with your back to the Chantilly HS audience and turning off a microphone. Well, guess what? We don't want to listen to you and I believe you most likely haven't heard the end of the public outcry/outrage.

check ur math Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SL Verity,
> Apparently, even by your own math and driving
> times, you have indeed verified that WF is just as
> close to your friends home in Floris, as it is to
> SL. Thanks!

How does 10-12 minutes equate to 23+ minutes? You'd better check your math.

No Redistrcting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a question: do you ever try to drive to SL
> from Floris area during morning rush hour?
>
> Northbound Fairfax County Pkwy, Northbound Reston
> Pkwy within miles of the Dullus Toll Road are
> already jammed in the morning, move more kids from
> Floris community will only worsen the situation.
>
> Going to Westfield is against the morning traffic,
> which actually takes less time than going to SL.

There are other roads. For example, from Bradley Farms, drive through Fox Mill Estates. Cross Fox Mill to Lawyers road. Turn left on Soapstone. Turn right on SL Drive and voila, you are at SLHS. From Monroe Manor, take Sunrise Valley, left on SL drive, cross Reston Parkway and voila, you are at SL.

I'll bet you are creative when you drive to Westfield in traffic, for example, during evening rush hour. Just think how it's going to be once all that land around Westfield is fully developed. Traffic is going to increase there as well. Heck, when I moved to Reston Lawyers Road was two lane and I had to ford a stream to get to Vienna. Things change.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> skullduggery :
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> No skullduggery, just not fair to Herndon to strip
> them of one of the two schools in their pyramid
> that made AYP last year and sub in portions of a
> Title I school now at Westfield. Believe me, we
> wish that the County had never districted North
> Point to Herndon. That was actually a real
> negative for us, as it totally upset the
> socio-economic balance of the Reston Master Plan.
> The funny thing is, that even years after the move
> (until just a few years ago) South Lakes outpaced
> Henrdon on SAT scores, despite the fact that SL
> had more FRM students. So I never understood why
> Aldrin wanted to be at Herndon, but I think we can
> thank the developers and realtors selling North
> Point for that. They billed it as 'exclusive'
> North Reston, and tried very hard to delineate it
> from South Reston. Too bad for us.

2 schools don't need to go - analyze maps on the school listing pages and the cip for all elementary schools. you're selling yourselves short and being bullied by north reston plus herndon at forestville and other areas - only a small portion in madison island....

23 minutes(from your home to WF) - 12 minutes (from your home to Bradley Farms) = 11 minutes (from Bradley Farms to WF). Plus, I'd bet you that the longest part of your travel time from your home to WF was trying to get OUT of Reston.

You weren't the one to draw the 3.5 mile radius maps were you?

"In my group, each and every Herndon and McNair parent held in their hands a copy of the South Lakes Boundary Group talking points and used them liberally. In addition, they commented on how well thought out and helpful they were. "

Sure, I don't doubt that at all. The Herndon and McNair parents are so HAPPY that they have been left out of the new boundaries that they are tripping all over themselves to support the new plan. They are all thinking, "Thank God we aren't Fox Mill or Floris!!" I was embarrassed for them actually. Last night the ones in my room couldn't look the Fox Mill or Floris parents in the eye. The Herndon people were particularly hypocritical. They'd sooner gag than send their own kids to SL, but they sure were in a hurry to support a plan to send other kids. At least by honest, no one wants to be redistricted, not now, not ever. Why in the world would we??? (Clarifier excepted)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 12:09PM by foxmill/carson/oakton parent.

I said 23 minutes from the furthest areas of Floris indicated on the Option 5 map to be moved to SL. Admittedly, I may not be savvy about short cuts, but I tried to be creative.

No, I did not draw the map, but if you look at it, you have to admit that parts of Floris are geographically disadvantaged.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 11:56AM by SLVerity.

Actually, it is a pretty quick trip for Floris and McNair students to Westfield HS in the mornings. All of the rush hour traffic is going in the opposite direction. For those going southbound, there's not much traffic at all. It takes me 15 minutes to get from McNair ES to Westfield HS when I get stuck at the 4 traffic signals on the route.

Going eastbound from McNair to South Lakes takes longer in the mornings.

foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "In my group, each and every Herndon and McNair
> parent held in their hands a copy of the South
> Lakes Boundary Group talking points and used them
> liberally. In addition, they commented on how well
> thought out and helpful they were. "
>
> Sure, I don't doubt that at all. The Herndon and
> McNair parents are so HAPPY that they have been
> left out of the new boundaries that they are
> tripping all over themselves to support the new
> plan. They are all thinking "Thank God we aren't
> Fox Mill or Floris!!"

So three out of the six affected schools firmly support Option 5. Many in the remaining 3 are fine with it too, because they also were spared from moving. It's always the way with redistricting, and I have been on the 'burned' end before and things worked out in the end.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vrj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of the main reason why most folks don't
> want
> > to go to SLHS is becoz they don't offer AP. I
> am
> > sure IB is just as great a program, but a lot
> of
> > the kids that are being moved to SLHS prefer
> AP.
>
> That's why many in the South Lakes community are
> lobbying for AP classes to be added. IB is
> excellent when it comes to writing, literature,
> and history, but could be strengthened in the
> areas of math. If you are in an affected
> neighborhood, I encourage you to include your
> wishes for AP in your comments to the School
> Board. You are in a good position to ask.


As I'm sure you are aware, the county is facing a $100 million budget shortfall. I wouldn't expect those "new programs" SL is so eager for any time soon. We can ask, but nothing has been promised yet, won't be promised later.

Don't most schools start at around 7:20? In my experience, there is a lot less traffic at 7am than later in the morning (rush hour starts in Reston closer to 8) and South Lakes is not in a business district.

As I said before, wait until the route to Westfield is built out and see what happens to traffic.

foxmill/carson/oakton:
-------------------------------------------------------
I think you should continue to lobby for the classes you want added. Perhaps the cost of adding classes will be offset by saving elsewhere (e.g., transportation).

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have friends living in Bradley(sp) Farms and
> Monroe Manor/Sycamore Lakes areas. I live
> literally next door to SLHS. I can promise you it
> takes me 10-12 minutes to reach their homes. I
> drove to Westfield for the last meeting by way of
> the areas indicated on option 5 moving to SL.
> From the area furthest out (from SL), it took me
> 23+ minutes to reach Westfield,and I had to cross
> several major roads. Unfortunately for Floris,
> much of the area is not really close to any high
> school, which is too bad for the Floris area, and
> I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I just think
> it explains why your area has been targeted many
> times. My friends in Loudon have experienced
> similar moves. I guess it is always the case in
> areas with fast and high growth.


And South Lakes will find in 3 years time or less, that the captured Floris island will be whisked away out of South Lakes to somewhere else, maybe Loudon County this time. That's what happens with growth.

> As I said before, wait until the route to
> Westfield is built out and see what happens to
> traffic.

Could be, but VDOT is also eliminating the traffic lights on 28, thus making for an even quicker trip.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Redistrcting Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just a question: do you ever try to drive to SL
> > from Floris area during morning rush hour?
> >
> > Northbound Fairfax County Pkwy, Northbound
> Reston
> > Pkwy within miles of the Dullus Toll Road are
> > already jammed in the morning, move more kids
> from
> > Floris community will only worsen the situation.
>
> >
> > Going to Westfield is against the morning
> traffic,
> > which actually takes less time than going to
> SL.
>
> There are other roads. For example, from Bradley
> Farms, drive through Fox Mill Estates. Cross Fox
> Mill to Lawyers road. Turn left on Soapstone.
> Turn right on SL Drive and voila, you are at SLHS.
> From Monroe Manor, take Sunrise Valley, left on
> SL drive, cross Reston Parkway and voila, you are
> at SL.
>
> I'll bet you are creative when you drive to
> Westfield in traffic, for example, during evening
> rush hour. Just think how it's going to be once
> all that land around Westfield is fully developed.
> Traffic is going to increase there as well.
> Heck, when I moved to Reston Lawyers Road was two
> lane and I had to ford a stream to get to Vienna.
> Things change.


Do you see that Fox Mill Folks? Yank the trikes from the curbs and flush the sidewalk chalk. Start planning your traffic islands and speed bumps, now, cuz the traffic is a comin'. South Lakes PTSA will soon post the new bus routes (through your neighborhood) on the South Lakes PTSA web site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 01:38PM by Flurries.

How's your lunch?

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "In my group, each and every Herndon and McNair
> > parent held in their hands a copy of the South
> > Lakes Boundary Group talking points and used
> them
> > liberally. In addition, they commented on how
> well
> > thought out and helpful they were. "
> >
> > Sure, I don't doubt that at all. The Herndon
> and
> > McNair parents are so HAPPY that they have been
> > left out of the new boundaries that they are
> > tripping all over themselves to support the new
> > plan. They are all thinking "Thank God we
> aren't
> > Fox Mill or Floris!!"
>
> So three out of the six affected schools firmly
> support Option 5. Many in the remaining 3 are
> fine with it too, because they also were spared
> from moving.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Sincerely, I don't understand.


It's always the way with
> redistricting, and I have been on the 'burned' end
> before and things worked out in the end.


How were you redistricted if you live next door to SL? If you mean that previous boundary changes took away good schools from SL, that isn't the same as having your school changed. Maybe you mean something else, not sure.

Flurries,
Maybe now McLearen will finally get built 8)>

SLVerity,
Perception and facts are two different things. You have a right to make your argument, but using INCORRECT data to tailor your agenda will back fire.

Again, there is NO Floris within 3.5 mile of travel disctance to SLH. This is a FACT.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> foxmill/carson/oakton parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "In my group, each and every Herndon and McNair
> > parent held in their hands a copy of the South
> > Lakes Boundary Group talking points and used
> them
> > liberally. In addition, they commented on how
> well
> > thought out and helpful they were. "
> >
> > Sure, I don't doubt that at all. The Herndon
> and
> > McNair parents are so HAPPY that they have been
> > left out of the new boundaries that they are
> > tripping all over themselves to support the new
> > plan. They are all thinking "Thank God we
> aren't
> > Fox Mill or Floris!!"
>
> So three out of the six affected schools firmly
> support Option 5. Many in the remaining 3 are
> fine with it too, because they also were spared
> from moving. It's always the way with
> redistricting, and I have been on the 'burned' end
> before and things worked out in the end.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't most schools start at around 7:20? In my
> experience, there is a lot less traffic at 7am
> than later in the morning (rush hour starts in
> Reston closer to 8) and South Lakes is not in a
> business district.
>
> As I said before, wait until the route to
> Westfield is built out and see what happens to
> traffic.



In your experience? do you drive from Chantilly/ Fairfax to Reston during rush hour?


the only thing you do on this board is lie .

why are you so invested in this redistriction that you are here daily willingly posting lies, misinformation and pathetic excuses about south lakes and how it will affect those who might be RD to your school.


are you part of the SL PTA or do you work for the school board?

As you can see, SLVerity doesn't have a REAL job...maybe is telecommuting. At any rate, Traffic is pretty bad between 6:45 and 7:15 am, so I avoid it at all costs. I leave my house at 6:20 to get to the park and ride ON TIME, so I don't get stuck behind the high school/middle school buses. In which subdivision does he live? Maybe his office is next door to him or better yet, in his basement!


sick of BS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't most schools start at around 7:20? In my
> > experience, there is a lot less traffic at 7am
> > than later in the morning (rush hour starts in
> > Reston closer to 8) and South Lakes is not in a
> > business district.
> >
> > As I said before, wait until the route to
> > Westfield is built out and see what happens to
> > traffic.
>
>
>
> In your experience? do you drive from Chantilly/
> Fairfax to Reston during rush hour?
>
>
> the only thing you do on this board is lie .
>
> why are you so invested in this redistriction that
> you are here daily willingly posting lies,
> misinformation and pathetic excuses about south
> lakes and how it will affect those who might be RD
> to your school.
>
>
> are you part of the SL PTA or do you work for the
> school board?

I see TM is using a pseudonym today.

I have a question for everyone nitpicking about .5 miles here or there and the 'quick' trip to Westfield vs. the arduous one to SL: How many of you would send your children to TJ if they were accepted? Be honest.:)

Until last February, I worked outside of the home and drove through the heart of Reston at 7 am, because that way I avoided the worse traffic at 8am. If you want to call me a liar, go ahead, but it doesn't change the truth.

Also, I am neither part of the SB or SL PTSA. I am a private citizen in the SL District and I am self-employed. I can work any time I wish, and do so frequently. One of the beauties of working from home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 01:39PM by SLVerity.

Floris,

I was trying to be kind and show you data but then you dismiss it as flawed. I put in the address of the actual elementary school IN GOOGLE and got directions to South Lakes. Floris elem. school is actually further west than most of the neighborhoods to be redistricted. In Google, you can change the route quite easily with your cursor, it is a fun tool.

I never said it was ALOT shorter, but it is less of a distance than to Westfield. IT JUST IS.

Whether you like it or not, whether you want to get on the FFX county parkway when you could CROSS IT and use West Ox to Reston Parkway, it is the same DISTANCE OR LESS. I drove the route the other day and it is less than 15 minutes.

If it was so freakin' far, why do lots of Floris kids play Reston Little League? I personally know RLL families who live in FLORIS.

Good luck pupil placing. But be careful what you wish for, you might get Herndon instead of Westfield as you are probably closer to Herndon as well.

Old - you don't have a choice where you play Little League, the boundaries are set by the LL International

Other sports are different for those they're in CYA

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see TM is using a pseudonym today.
>
> I have a question for everyone nitpicking about .5
> miles here or there and the 'quick' trip to
> Westfield vs. the arduous one to SL: How many of
> you would send your children to TJ if they were
> accepted? Be honest.:)

I would not send my child to TJ. He, along with the wee Berdhuises are very involved in sports, whose practices end around 5:30 - 6:15, depending on the sport, and I am the one who picks them up. I cannot imagine attempting to cover such a geographical area in the car at that hour, picking up multiple children in multiple, distant locations. Logistically it would be impossible.

The late bus won't do, as it is not daily, nor does it run late enough to cover the end of practice. However, we have a great, balanced educational and athletic environment at Westfield. Westfield HS is a motivated family with high morale and esprit de corps. Why would we want to go anywhere else?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 02:07PM by Berdhuis.

I feel sorry for Fox Mill, McNair, and Floris families. Their school communities and PTSAs aren't organizing and yelling, "We want to keep you! Don't leave us!" I wonder why.

Truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel sorry for Fox Mill, McNair, and Floris
> families. Their school communities and PTSAs
> aren't organizing and yelling, "We want to keep
> you! Don't leave us!" I wonder why.

That's because Oakton and Westfield PTA's have decided to follow Fairfax County guidelines prohibiting PTA's from advocacy on redistricting issues, among others. I'm sure there's no lack of desire, it's just that they will not advocate publicly through the vehicle of their offices.

Sorry. National and state PTA bylaws allow PTAs to be involved in redistricting. The county PTA did not cite any charter/bylaw language that prohibited local PTSAs from getting involved. In fact, PTAs have an obligation to be involved in policy decisions that affect the students and communities they serve. So all these PTAs, including South Lakes', are taking the easy road out by not advocating for their very own populations.

In any case, absolutely nothing prohibits them from providing information links or forums for discussion. Nothing prohibits them from doing what the SL PTSA did, which was provide space on its website for a group of community residents to come together, get informed, and share information. It even includes a link to the StopRD website.

Madison did not even HEAR about the first meeting until after it happened!

Apart from PTSAs, however, where is there organized advocacy outside of neighborhoods for keeping them in their current school pyramids? Could it be because they know they want fewer students????

Truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Could it be because they know they want fewer
> students????

Can you validate this?

Course not. Just wondering.

The alternative Option presented on the Dec 19th meeting is keeping all the schools intact but breaking up FLORIS ES which is not a balanced scenario. By taking 7 communities from Floris will break the whole Floris school. My daughter's best friend who lives within walking distance from our home will go to different high school. It is unfair and places emotional strain on kids knowing some of their best friends will be placed in a different high school while 90%of the classmates will move together to Westfield.

My daughter is not able to understand why she will be separated from her best friend due to no fault of hers.

When we moved in to this neighbourhood of Floris we thought of sending good friends together through the same ES,MS and HS will make their journey through the formative years more productive.

Breaking years of good friendship between young kids will never foster better results but on the contrary may result in depression and withdrawal when sent a completely new High school with no friends.

Please take into consideration the negative effect of breaking FLORIS up and pulling only FEW KIDS out while all the SCHOOLS in the Study are kept WHOLE.

If a balanced and Fair study is being done then please keep all the Schools together and not just Single out FLORIS .

-OAK MILL PARENTS

School sucks!

I am the former chair of the diversity committee for what was, at the time I had the role, one of the five largest corporations in the US. While diversity is important, defining diversity primarily by physical and / or economic characteristics tends to do more harm than good. Certainly, diversity leads to greater learning, for we learn from those around us. However, the value of diverstiy might be better realized by mixing an only child with one that has a sibling or more. And I think you will all agree that this is not a rational approach.

Some are confusing diverstiy with racial and socioeconomic tolerence. Be careful, this is a fine line to walk!

The Oakton school paper had a great article, where the student author recognized some of the great values that South Lakes offers. In my room of 25 folks last night there was overwhelming support for SL - is a similar tone. However, there was also almost unanimous support for stopping the current redistricting and having a more comprehensive plan that addresses current challenges facing SL students (not having the same access to courses and other activities).

This is dated, but you all might be interested in the following site.

http://www.adversity.net/special/busing.htm

Truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apart from PTSAs, however, where is there
> organized advocacy outside of neighborhoods for
> keeping them in their current school pyramids?

On behalf of McNair, there is an organized, private advocacy group for keeping us at Westfield. I have its paper, and can scan and send it to you for your validation if you want. There's also a Google group: http://groups.google.com/group/mcnair_no_rezoning

I just took a quick glance ... This is awesome and well stated (I agree with some, disagree with some, but that is irrelevent).

I am glad some groups remain focused on the fact that the "best" solution to a mis-stated problem and poorly managed process does not mean it is a good solution.

In particular, your comments section is succinct, accurate, and non-contentious!




Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truthbetold Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Apart from PTSAs, however, where is there
> > organized advocacy outside of neighborhoods for
> > keeping them in their current school pyramids?
>
> On behalf of McNair, there is an organized,
> private advocacy group for keeping us at
> Westfield. I have its paper, and can scan and send
> it to you for your validation if you want. There's
> also a Google group:
> http://groups.google.com/group/mcnair_no_rezoning

SLV -
I would venture to say that any parent who says that they would not send their child to TJ even if s/he were accepted probably does not have a child who could get in. There are probably a few kids out there, perhaps some who are dually gifted in the humanities as well as math and science, but very few. I interact with people from all over the county every day, and anybody that I have met who is minimally educated would do whatever they could to have their child attend TJ. I mean, that's like asking, If your child got a full scholarship to MIT or Harvard, would you send them? No, I would rather they go to Community College because it's closer.

The bottom line is that people who are in SLHS and who are advocating on behalf of their school fail to comprehend the very simple notion that there are many parents living in this area who will do anything to ensure the highest possible educational outcomes for their children. Many of the immigrants who have moved to Western Fairfax, specifically from Asian countries, are the cream of the crop from their own countries. They start studying for national qualifiers from a very young age so that they can go to college. They know that the best education possible gives their kids the best start in life, and they make choices/sacrifices with that goal in mind. How many Kumon centers are there in Reston? None, they are in Herndon, Chantilly, and Vienna.

If SLHS is so great, why are they insisting on keeping the IB program? County-wide data indicate that the top performing schools have AP programs and the lowest performing ones have IB. If SLHS wants to become a top notch school, they have to ditch IB. I still can't get over how many SLHS advocates tell the non-SLHS advocates that we are the ones who are close minded and need to diversify, yet they are the ones who are close-minded and will not even entertain the notion of diversifying. Unbelievable to me.

Question:
If the county would hire more HS teachers, would this allow for more classes to be taught - thus mitigating the purported constriction of available courses for those schools who claim such a lack?

>>>Perhaps the cost of adding classes will be offset by saving elsewhere (e.g., transportation).<<<

How would that happen when the county will have to run double bus runs in the neighborhoods forced to go to South Lakes? For the next three years, Fox Mill and Floris will have buses running to Oakton AND to South Lakes. I don't see much of a savings there.

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question:
> If the county would hire more HS teachers, would
> this allow for more classes to be taught - thus
> mitigating the purported constriction of available
> courses for those schools who claim such a lack?

Yes. More resources could be allocated without moving a single student. South Lakes could have more course offerings and smaller classes throughout the school. Those smaller classes would attract more people to pupil place at South Lakes. FCPS could that in a NY minute, without disrupting anyone. They could use the money they would save on double bus runs for the next three years, the money saved on all the paper work for all the new students trying to pupil place out of South Lakes, and they could have saved the 10's of thousands spent on these silly redistricting meetings that do nothing but create more animosity toward South Lakes.

>My daughter's best friend who lives within walking distance from our home will go to different high school.<

In this case, couldn't you submit comments to ask that the boundary folks adjust the option to keep streets together? I interpreted the person who spoke on the TV in the beginning to say that they didn't know neighborhoods as well as those who lived there to mean that we could ask for individual streets to be included with other streets, for example.

The point is NOT to split Floris.

Truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >My daughter's best friend who lives within
> walking distance from our home will go to
> different high school.<
>
> In this case, couldn't you submit comments to ask
> that the boundary folks adjust the option to keep
> streets together? I interpreted the person who
> spoke on the TV in the beginning to say that they
> didn't know neighborhoods as well as those who
> lived there to mean that we could ask for
> individual streets to be included with other
> streets, for example.

>Yes. More resources could be allocated without moving a single student<

If we get redistricted, which seems likely, or if only one group, like Fox Mill or Floris goes, then I want families to go to South Lakes who want to participate in everything. So I don't want to suggest this option because then the school will have fewer involved families. I think that's something they want -- more families who can participate in all the activities and be part of boosters and chaperones etc.

Floris Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLV -
> I would venture to say that any parent who says
> that they would not send their child to TJ even if
> s/he were accepted probably does not have a child
> who could get in. There are probably a few kids
> out there, perhaps some who are dually gifted in
> the humanities as well as math and science, but
> very few. I interact with people from all over
> the county every day, and anybody that I have met
> who is minimally educated would do whatever they
> could to have their child attend TJ. I mean,
> that's like asking, If your child got a full
> scholarship to MIT or Harvard, would you send
> them? No, I would rather they go to Community
> College because it's closer.
>
> The bottom line is that people who are in SLHS and
> who are advocating on behalf of their school fail
> to comprehend the very simple notion that there
> are many parents living in this area who will do
> anything to ensure the highest possible
> educational outcomes for their children. Many of
> the immigrants who have moved to Western Fairfax,
> specifically from Asian countries, are the cream
> of the crop from their own countries. They start
> studying for national qualifiers from a very young
> age so that they can go to college. They know
> that the best education possible gives their kids
> the best start in life, and they make
> choices/sacrifices with that goal in mind. How
> many Kumon centers are there in Reston? None,
> they are in Herndon, Chantilly, and Vienna.
>
> If SLHS is so great, why are they insisting on
> keeping the IB program? County-wide data indicate
> that the top performing schools have AP programs
> and the lowest performing ones have IB. If SLHS
> wants to become a top notch school, they have to
> ditch IB. I still can't get over how many SLHS
> advocates tell the non-SLHS advocates that we are
> the ones who are close minded and need to
> diversify, yet they are the ones who are
> close-minded and will not even entertain the
> notion of diversifying. Unbelievable to me.


It's unbelievable to most of us too. SL PTSA has been VERY clear that they will NOT compromise on any aspect of their school, including IB/AP. They are VERY clear that they DO NOT CARE what the new, incoming, families want for their children. SL PSTA and Stu Gibson are IN CHARGE, and the rest of us can take a back seat. Perhaps they will let some of you bring in cookies for a bake sale.

IB is not a mainstream, US, program. It is a niche program, for a few students interested in attending high school or college in another country. FCPS should NEVER have jettison the main US program for college bound students, AP, in 8 of our lowest performing high schools. It isn't fair to the kids on the top, and even more unfair to those on the bottom who now have even LESS chance of earning college credits. IB here should be done as it is done in the majority of states and school systems in the country, make it a magnet in one or two schools for those on the far left who prefer a European based program and are hoping that their child can attend the Sorbonne. For the rest of us, AP is preferred and should be offered.

>>>are you part of the SL PTA or do you work for the school board?<<<

Aren't they the same thing? Doesn't SL PTSA work for the school board? Don't they support whatever Stu Gibson supports?

word Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I expect that the
> radius charts will be posted shortly

I doubt that, since the Navy to Oakton move is definitely not in the 3 mile radius.

Navy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> word Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I expect that the
> > radius charts will be posted shortly
>
> I doubt that, since the Navy to Oakton move is
> definitely not in the 3 mile radius.


Also, that would require the inclusion of Langley and a significant component of Madison. Not doing so would further erode confidence regarding the SB not playing favorites or having a prescribed solution prior to the study.

Diversity,
Good post. Thank you.

In FCPS, Diversity means African American. Sometimes Hispanic. But children from other countries countries don't count, rarely does poverty matter, (a black student taking AP is good for that stats, regardless of income or the fact that he is a child of two doctors and lives in McLean), never does diversity of thought count or diversity of religion. It's Black. That was the whole reason for affirmative action at TJ, not enough Blacks. Anyone who has walked the halls of TJ, then visited Langley or Madison or Oakton, you will immediately see which ones are diverse and which are not. TJ has students from all over the globe, yet it is not diverse, by FCPS standards.

We have a 'Young Scholars' program in FCPS that gets more money every year. It is designed to get more Black students into GT centers. GT centers have more than tripled in size, from 4.5% of the population to 14%, to increase the 'diversity', again, Black Students. Hispanics seem to be moving up without much help from FCPS, so the programs continued to be tailored to target Blacks. That constitutes 'diversity' in FCPS. A poor student from India, or Korea, or Iran, or Pakiston, does not. There are no programs that target them.

The reasons for the redistricting are vague and unsubstantiated. The more I see, the more I think it is being done for pure spite. And I'd vote against Stu Gibson today if I had the chance!


Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes. More resources could be allocated without
> moving a single student. South Lakes could have
> more course offerings and smaller classes
> throughout the school. Those smaller classes
> would attract more people to pupil place at South
> Lakes. FCPS could that in a NY minute, without
> disrupting anyone. They could use the money they
> would save on double bus runs for the next three
> years, the money saved on all the paper work for
> all the new students trying to pupil place out of
> South Lakes, and they could have saved the 10's of
> thousands spent on these silly redistricting
> meetings that do nothing but create more animosity
> toward South Lakes.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Floris Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SLV -
> > I would venture to say that any parent who says
> > that they would not send their child to TJ even
> if
> > s/he were accepted probably does not have a
> child
> > who could get in. There are probably a few
> kids
> > out there, perhaps some who are dually gifted
> in
> > the humanities as well as math and science, but
> > very few. I interact with people from all over
> > the county every day, and anybody that I have
> met
> > who is minimally educated would do whatever
> they
> > could to have their child attend TJ. I mean,
> > that's like asking, If your child got a full
> > scholarship to MIT or Harvard, would you send
> > them? No, I would rather they go to Community
> > College because it's closer.
> >
> > The bottom line is that people who are in SLHS
> and
> > who are advocating on behalf of their school
> fail
> > to comprehend the very simple notion that there
> > are many parents living in this area who will
> do
> > anything to ensure the highest possible
> > educational outcomes for their children. Many
> of
> > the immigrants who have moved to Western
> Fairfax,
> > specifically from Asian countries, are the
> cream
> > of the crop from their own countries. They
> start
> > studying for national qualifiers from a very
> young
> > age so that they can go to college. They know
> > that the best education possible gives their
> kids
> > the best start in life, and they make
> > choices/sacrifices with that goal in mind. How
> > many Kumon centers are there in Reston? None,
> > they are in Herndon, Chantilly, and Vienna.
> >
> > If SLHS is so great, why are they insisting on
> > keeping the IB program? County-wide data
> indicate
> > that the top performing schools have AP
> programs
> > and the lowest performing ones have IB. If
> SLHS
> > wants to become a top notch school, they have
> to
> > ditch IB. I still can't get over how many SLHS
> > advocates tell the non-SLHS advocates that we
> are
> > the ones who are close minded and need to
> > diversify, yet they are the ones who are
> > close-minded and will not even entertain the
> > notion of diversifying. Unbelievable to me.
>
>
> It's unbelievable to most of us too. SL PTSA has
> been VERY clear that they will NOT compromise on
> any aspect of their school, including IB/AP. They
> are VERY clear that they DO NOT CARE what the new,
> incoming, families want for their children. SL
> PSTA and Stu Gibson are IN CHARGE, and the rest of
> us can take a back seat. Perhaps they will let
> some of you bring in cookies for a bake sale.
>

What ever gave you the impression that any PTA selects the curriculum for their school?

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>are you part of the SL PTA or do you work for
> the school board?<<<
>
> Aren't they the same thing? Doesn't SL PTSA work
> for the school board? Don't they support whatever
> Stu Gibson supports?


Yes, they are the famous "staff" that works behind the scenes, running the new bus routes through Fox Mill, sizing up the new South Lakes band member competition at last night's meeting and next on the docket---planning the huge development along Rt 28. It will be next to impossible for those poor McNair kids to get to Westfield. Where might those McNair youngsters go then??? South Lakes, oops I mean the staff, has decided that McNair is closer to Westfield than Floris. Quite a dilemma once that development hits. McNair has been kicked by the curbside by one of the next closest schools.

SLVerity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see TM is using a pseudonym today.
>
> I have a question for everyone nitpicking about .5
> miles here or there and the 'quick' trip to
> Westfield vs. the arduous one to SL: How many of
> you would send your children to TJ if they were
> accepted? Be honest.:)
>
>
You are right we shouldn't be nitpicking the .5 especially since McNair is closer to South Lakes than Floris. McNair is farther from Westfield than Floris. Did you try that route? I figure not because that might jeapordize your membership or alliance with the South Lakes special sub-committee boundary club.

Flurries Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLVerity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see TM is using a pseudonym today.
> >
> > I have a question for everyone nitpicking about
> .5
> > miles here or there and the 'quick' trip to
> > Westfield vs. the arduous one to SL: How many
> of
> > you would send your children to TJ if they were
> > accepted? Be honest.:)
> >
> >
> You are right we shouldn't be nitpicking the .5
> especially since McNair is closer to South Lakes
> than Floris. McNair is farther from Westfield
> than Floris. Did you try that route? I figure
> not because that might jeapordize your membership
> or alliance with the South Lakes special
> sub-committee boundary club.


McNair closer - heck, how about the fact that Flint Hill is right there and part of over capacity (much different, of course that merely being over crowded relative to a 24 year-old study's recommendation when the county population was falling and overall only about 60% of the size it is today). That would make too much sense.

No Flint Hill - what about Crossfield. They aren't even in the circle for Oakton, yet they are much closer to South Lakes

Hmm, I'd really love to see that 3-mile circle surrounding LANGLEY HS relative to its boundaries, although there are some beautiful areas that fall right within the nice circle of Herndon and South Lakes' boundaries.

I really can't wait for the "Jetson's" hovercrafts so I can just pop up into the air and fly that straight line 3.5 miles to South Lakes (along with the rest of the morning commuters heading towards Reston, Tysons, and DC).

The wonderful thing about being "wealthy" and "socioeconomically" advantaged is that my little Honda's GPS does these wonderful calculations of routes. What's the difference between 4 miles and 6 miles - a straight line and the wonder of roads.

I'll give the SLHS folks some kudos, however. These maps show how screwed up ALL the boundaries are in the area. A nice picture would look like a Venn Diagram with slight overlaps between boundaries around the edges of the circles. It would also show the school being central to its population and each school would fall within a nice circle.

Conclusion - OAK HILL HIGH SCHOOL - Unit McNair, Floris, Coppermine, Fox Mill, and Oak Hill into a local, community high school for Oak Hill - what Westfield should have been.

Restonian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What ever gave you the impression that any PTA
> selects the curriculum for their school?

-----------
Woodson High school, when it ejected the IB programme.

In Fall 1997 the "FY 1999 Superintendent's Proposed Budget," page 179, contained this line: "Provides place holder funding to implement the IB program at Woodson and South Lakes High Schools in the amount of $120,000."

Only AFTER this funding proposal was published in the proposed School District budget did staff propose IB to the community and request parental support.

The then-Woodson principal, Gary Miller, assured their PTSA that Woodson could also keep AP. Much later Dr. Domenech eventually stated that newer IB schools "misunderstood" when they thought they could have both AP and IB programs. School Board At-Large member Mark Emery was more blunt and was quoted as saying Woodson was "misled."

Over the summer of 1999 many of Woodson's AP and pre-AP courses disappeared, but after Woodson parents objected these classes were "temporarily" restored.

In fall 1999 the Woodoson PTSA formed an advisory committee to discuss the issue. “The PTSA Advisory Committee on Advanced Course Offerings will include parents who are pro-AP, those who are pro-IB, parents of ‘regular’ students, (and) some teachers.” [Elliott, Robert, Principal. Letter to the Woodson Community, September 27, 1999.]

FCPS Central Staff stated, “Because of scheduling and staffing issues, a school must choose to be either an IB diploma or an AP diploma school. AP diploma schools will not offer IB courses and IB Diploma schools will only offer a few AP courses that do not duplicate IB offerings.” [Smith, Janie, Director, FCPS Office of High School Instruction and K-12 Curriculum Services. “For Your Information: Handouts on IB and AP Diploma Programs.” Memorandum dated October 6, 1999.]

On October 26th, Dr. Sprague spoke to the Superintendent's Advisory Committee about AP and IB. Dr. Sprague again stated high schools were being the opportunity to choose between IB and AP and was again adamant that parallel programs cannot be supported.

To reiterate the final Committee Report, “Restrictions imposed by Fairfax County Public Schools on "combined" AP/IB courses and the impact that offering an array of both AP and IB courses would have on Woodson's Master Schedule and class sizes suggested that maintaining both programs at Woodson without additional resources could lead to a situation where the school would have to subsidize the advanced programs at the expense of other programs in the school.”

After careful review of the Committee's recommendations, the Woodson PTSA and voted to keep AP and reject IB.

All this was going on at the same time South Lakes was getting IB. I downloaded these documents at the time, but no longer can find them posted.

Bottom line: The Woodson PTSA DID decide its curriculum, even after the implementation of IB had begun.

If Fox Mill has to go, by George, we're taking someone with us!!! We are not going to be thrown to the wolves alone. At least Floris and Fox Mill kilds will know each other from Carson.

The "circles" aka 3.5 mile radius argument is a joke. The only way that theory would work is if there were exactly the same number of students per area, evenly distributed throughout the circle. South Lakes would have Fox Mill, Aldrin, Crossfields (or maybe they'd go to Chantilly since they are a union of two circles), Navy, Waples Mill, most of Madison, etc, etc. How could we draw circles around the Madison and Oakton High School? You can't because they're about a mile apart.

That effort was a real waste of someone's not-too-swift analytical capability. They must have chosen 3.5 miles because that's the size sippy cup they could get the crayon around.

Keep Navy kids at Chantilly!

Berdhuis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question:
> If the county would hire more HS teachers, would
> this allow for more classes to be taught - thus
> mitigating the purported constriction of available
> courses for those schools who claim such a lack?

100 million dollar cuts that will be coming down the road from FCPS. No, they will not be hiring new teachers.

When FCPS move all the kids to SLHS,are they going to move teachers with the kids there too?

How is SLHS going to handle all the new students when not even able to improve the performance of the current students?

Question,
They won't have to hire any new teachers for a while. SL will be slow to fill up, since its only 9th graders next year. Remember, the projections they gave for enrollments were in 2012.

This will also give the SB time to rethink the redistricting, similar to what they did in SoCo.