Are you kidding. I would love to live in a non-hoa neighborhood, but I don't want to have an hour commute, or live in a house built 10 to 20 years ago. They don't have any new neighborhoods in Fairfax, Western Loudoun or Northern Prince william that don't have hoas. You don't have a choice. HOA's suck. They are socialist boards. My family saw the rise of communism in Romania. They had their home taken away from them and taken over by the government. They also saw the government give back individual homes because they found they could not afford to pay for the up keep. (people don't take care of things they don't OWN). Hoa's found a great way around that. They get to tell you what to do with your house but you still have to pay the bills!!!! It is unbelievable how our local governments have sold out our freedom by allowing developers to make HOA's the only available housing because it saves them the cost of using tax dollars to provide the services they have to provide to non-hoa locations.

Are you kiddy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you kidding. I would love to live in a non-hoa
> neighborhood, but I don't want to have an hour
> commute, or live in a house built 10 to 20 years
> ago. They don't have any new neighborhoods in
> Fairfax, Western Loudoun or Northern Prince
> william that don't have hoas. You don't have a
> choice. HOA's suck. They are socialist boards. My
> family saw the rise of communism in Romania. They
> had their home taken away from them and taken over
> by the government. They also saw the government
> give back individual homes because they found they
> could not afford to pay for the up keep. (people
> don't take care of things they don't OWN). Hoa's
> found a great way around that. They get to tell
> you what to do with your house but you still have
> to pay the bills!!!! It is unbelievable how our
> local governments have sold out our freedom by
> allowing developers to make HOA's the only
> available housing because it saves them the cost
> of using tax dollars to provide the services they
> have to provide to non-hoa locations.


There are a great many people who, like you, would like to purchase a new house in a neighborhood without a mandatory HOA. However given a choice between a new home that they like in a neighborhood that they like, probably in a school district they are drooling to get into but having to live with a HOA on the one hand, and having to settle for a house (even a new one) in a less desirable location or neighborhood in a school district that might have some issues on the other, they opt for the HOA home.

Part of what makes mandatory HOAs in new neighborhoods less of a burden is that when the neighborhoods start out most of the people share the same general philosophies and views on how the neighborhood should go. (Usually they are the ones that the developer helped foster in his promotional materials and sales pitches.) It is later on as people's lives take different turns and as second generation owners start buying in that the s-it hits the fan. It isn't just the newcomers that experience the difficulties. Older people may not be able to maintain the landscape and lawn to the same standards as they did when they were younger. People that were happily working for others end up becoming self employed and want or need to use their home to park the company truck or a shed to store work stuff in. People with young kids who could get by with two cars and didn't mind parking restrictions run into trouble with them when those three kids get to be teenagers and need someplace to park their cars. Somebody gets badly injured and needs the rules to be modified in order for them to build a ramp into their house or make some other accomodation. Owners who are selling their homes want to be able to put up for sale signs. Some veteran decides he wants to install a flagpole and fly Old Glory 24/7 (which of course means having the pole lit by appropriate floodlights at night).

One other thing to remember about mandatory HOAs is that quite often they are responsible for providing the amenities that made the neighborhood attractive. That neighborhood pool and playground are paid for with those community dues, and probably would not be available or in as good condition without a mandatory HOA. (Don't believe me-just ask a neighborhood pool that is not part of an HOA how many unsold memberships it currently has.)

If you do want a new home in an area without a mandatory HOA there is a possibility-tear downs and infulls. The problem with this is while your home will be new, the neighborhood will mostly be older.

Violation Assessment Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOA wisdom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > HOAs are run by retired hags who want to turn
> your
> > home into part of their little dollhouse
> > community, control freaks with no jobs who like
> to
> > walk around with clipboards all digital
> cameras.
>
> And wives of colonels who failed to make general.
> Or the retired colonels themselves.


There's a subdivision called Stratford Landing off the MV Parkway. There was a retired colonel named Brinitzer who ran it with an iron fist. Some of the people living there called it Fort Brinitzer.

I live in an older neighborhood with no HOA and love it. There is no pool or anythng like that. There is a community organization, memberhsip strictly voluntary but most people belong just to go to the semi-annual picnic. Most people take care of their properties some to a greater degree than others, but there's no HOA committe going around handing out notices or anything like that.

Community pools and the like are very costly and the insurance is huge. We belong to a membership pool, but not in our community.

The nice thing is that people feel the need to help others out. For example ther's an elderly widow who can't cut her grass, etc, so various neighbors volunteer to help her out. Actually, having things like HOAs discourages such a sense of community.

Here is the problem with a HOA like the TWC Association. This past weekend, I took my trash can out of the garage to remove my lawn mower. The grass took about an hour to mow and the garage door was left up while I was in the yard. I didn't push the can back in the garage and put the door down while I was mowing. Of course I didn't realize that leaving a trash can out while I was working in the yard for an hour would destroy property values.

So some jerk reported me for leaving my trash can out and the HOA sent me a letter. The sad thing is that I spent extra time mowing the common area next to my house since it seems to deter the dog walkers from leaving their dog droppings. When the grass is at the six to eight inch height mantained by the HOA what is the point is picking it up.

Of course, now I want to go out and buy junk cars and park up and down the street like the neighbors (who don't use their garage or driveway) since that doesn't lower property values.

Also, we have a "waste water pond" (it is funny that it was a pond when we bought) which becomes covered in trash washing out of the neighborhood when it rains. Other neighbors have called the HOA trying to get the trash picked up, but I usually wind up doing it because the HOA is to busy paying themselves to hire a person to come by after each major rain.

I'm all for the HOA but please, they could use a little common sense. Pick up the trash in the pond, get people to mow their grass, pick up dog crap, and limit parking on the street. No neighborhood should be constructed without homes having room to park cars in driveways.

I love the pond with it's bright orange warning signs telling people "no everything". Kinda destroys the enjoyment of looking at the pond after I clean it. After the last rain I filled two large trash bags. Now I will e-mail/call the HOA like the jerk did on me, send them pictures with a date stamp, and then after a month or so, call the county health department about the bags of dogs crap, bottles, newspapers, plastic and even used "rubbers" (no joke...I have neighbors who have witnessed them floating in the pond).

Ah for the days of living in a house. Yeah had a HOA and the yearly fee was about $850. Can't remember once in the 2 decades I lived there getting hassled by a HOA. But now living in an effing condo I hate it. What a fucking racket these management firms run. The property manager is only here a couple hours a week and main task seems to be going around and look for rule violations and send out fucking memos threatening folks with legal action. What a crock of shit. I figure about 900 units in the community half or more are townhouses. A conservative median guesstimate is a monthly fee of $200,, mines a lot more. So lets say the take is over $2 million a year and say 70% goes for expenses. I'll make guesstimate of a 6% management fee. For that we get a manager who comes by once a week for an hour or so! That explains why when minor stuff breaks down it takes a month or so or never to get attended too. Probably well over a $100,000 a year for the management company. And each year the management firm proposes a 10% increase in the monthly fees. And lots of what I think is bogus stuff they come up with needing repair or replacement instead of building up a capital fund for major repairs. underwater

Ticked Off in Glenkirk Estates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm all for the HOA

Which means you are not. You basically call them and all your neighbors wastes of DNA. Maybe the problem isn't everyone else...

My hoa put parking number spots so each house can claim just 2 spaces

They forgot to number mine so as a hobby i call towing company every chance i get since the illegals forgot to put the number back and i have the alotted numbering system sent by the hoa for my claim for my alotted 2 parking spots.


Its been 1 year now and they still refuse to mark my spot back.

I think my hoa is the worst.
What things can i do to force them to paint the numbers back other than me doing it myself?

I am a successful black male who lives in a gated community in Fairfax County. I have a wife and two kids on the honor roll. Several times I have thrown in my hat to join our local HOA board. I practice business law and have chaired a number of different boards, usually as treasurer, without issue for many years. Yet for some reason, I can't get on the board with my local HOA (who by the way are all white). Two other persons in my neighborhood are also successful professionals (one Asian and the other is Hispanic). I don't want to start pointing the racist finger at anyone because alot of minorities do that when they feel they are being treated unfairly, but it does seem at least suspicious. Am I just being paranoid?
Attachments:

You don't want the hassle anyway. But what do you mean by "get on the board"? In my HOA the board members are elected, and one would put their name in with a brief bio when election time comes up per the HOA bylaws. In my HOA the election materials are all text with no pictures, I have no idea of the race I am voting for unless the name would somehow indicate it.

So if there are elections, the board can't really be blamed even if they are all white, you'd have to conclude following an election loss that either your voting neighbors were racist, or they aren't and you lost for non-racial reasons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2011 08:24AM by justsayin.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't want the hassle anyway. But what do you
> mean by "get on the board"? In my HOA the board
> members are elected, and one would put their name
> in with a brief bio when election time comes up
> per the HOA bylaws. In my HOA the election
> materials are all text with no pictures, I have no
> idea of the race I am voting for unless the name
> would somehow indicate it.
>
> So if there are elections, the board can't really
> be blamed even if they are all white, you'd have
> to conclude following an election loss that either
> your voting neighbors were racist, or they aren't
> and you lost for non-racial reasons.

My HOA has a President for Life. We hold sham elections every two years, where El Jeffe pulls 50 proxies out of his pocket and re-elects himself, and also decides who else he would like to have on the board with him. He couldn't get himself unelected despite getting the HOA sued twice and losing twice.

He keeps the grass mowed and is generally a good advocate for the community, but is a petty little man that defines himself with the HOA job. I stay away from him and have told my kids to go nowhere near him - he views teenagers as a criminal class. He is so unpleasant that no one else runs for anything on the board because no one wants to work with him.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't want the hassle anyway. But what do you
> mean by "get on the board"? In my HOA the board
> members are elected, and one would put their name
> in with a brief bio when election time comes up
> per the HOA bylaws. In my HOA the election
> materials are all text with no pictures, I have no
> idea of the race I am voting for unless the name
> would somehow indicate it.
>
> So if there are elections, the board can't really
> be blamed even if they are all white, you'd have
> to conclude following an election loss that either
> your voting neighbors were racist, or they aren't
> and you lost for non-racial reasons.

In my community, the HOA members are appointed, not elected. I didn't realize this until after we moved in. The more I take a look into it the more shady it looks to me. Opinions?

The HOA president is always a person with time on their hands with control issues...

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my community, the HOA members are appointed,
> not elected. I didn't realize this until after we
> moved in. The more I take a look into it the more
> shady it looks to me. Opinions?

If they are appointed per the bylaws you agreed to, that's the system you have to live with until you move. Good luck getting the bylaws changed.

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In my community, the HOA members are appointed,
> not elected. I didn't realize this until after we
> moved in. The more I take a look into it the more
> shady it looks to me. Opinions?

You have likely not yet gone through 'transition' where the builder bows out and cedes control to the residents. There should be something in your by laws that say when X% of the planned homes are built, the HOA is turned over to the residents. You will probably get better results from a builder controlled HOA than one run by the residents - the builder is motivated to keep the grass cut, pool in good order, etc. to sell more homes. Residents sometimes are more concerned about keep costs low versus keeping the common areas in good shape.

So my guess was right, its white people rigging the system again and keeping my people down. Okay fine then I'll start playing rap music as loud as I can and start throwing the race card around. Maybe that's the way to get things changed I guess. Maybe I'll go burn a black cross in the HOA president's yard. Turnabout is fair play right?

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So my guess was right, its white people rigging
> the system again and keeping my people down. Okay
> fine then I'll start playing rap music as loud as
> I can and start throwing the race card around.
> Maybe that's the way to get things changed I
> guess. Maybe I'll go burn a black cross in the HOA
> president's yard. Turnabout is fair play right?


People elect other people they know, like, and trust. Perhaps they don't know you, or perhaps they do and don't like and trust you. I know plenty of people I don't like or trust, and race has nothing to do with it.

HOA's are completely fucking stupid. There's a host of state & local law that can be applied to people who let their yards or houses go to hell.

You have to weigh whatever perceived house value benefit against annual fees that can approach $1k a year easily -- more if it's a condo or apartment that maintains pools, etc.

I think HOA's are mainly vehicles for bored empty-nesters to get a hard on by bitching about your yard if you go out of town for a week and didn't mow. In any area that wasn't full of stepford neighborhoods, neighbors just resolve their problems independently.

Re: Don't like your neighborhood?? MOVE!

How about: If don't like , time some time off from trolling internet forums and fix or improve the situation How about volunteering on your HOA board as an at large member and working to eliminate the obviously stupid, intrusive rules and strengthening the important ones that effectively improve quality of life and help maintain property values?

to those complaining about their houses in crappy neighborhoods with no HOA's... stop buying houses in crappy areas. my 60 year old neighborhood in Falls Church has no HOA. and my neighborhood is spotless. and when a messed up house does occasionally show up, the market forces take over. the house sells and a new owner tears down or renovates. most people will try to keep up with the joneses and dont want to be the one house on the street with 2 feet grass. its all about the neighborhood and economic forces, desirability of the area, etc. its not HOA vs no HOA, or good HOA vs. bad HOA.

Curmudgeon1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOA's are completely fucking stupid. There's a
> host of state & local law that can be applied to
> people who let their yards or houses go to hell.
>
> You have to weigh whatever perceived house value
> benefit against annual fees that can approach $1k
> a year easily -- more if it's a condo or apartment
> that maintains pools, etc.
>
> I think HOA's are mainly vehicles for bored
> empty-nesters to get a hard on by bitching about
> your yard if you go out of town for a week and
> didn't mow. In any area that wasn't full of
> stepford neighborhoods, neighbors just resolve
> their problems independently.


1K is an insane number. But that number goes into many things besides services. Most of the HOA's infrastructure is funded and paid for by the HOA. So the roads, sidewalks, drainage system, trees, fences, parking lots ect, that all will have to be replaced at sometime will be paid out of the HOA reserves. For condo fees you are paying for the entire building replacement cost, so fees are much higher. Sad part is that most HOAs are inadequately funded, so once that sink hole opens up in the middle the street, be prepared to pay a hefty assessment. I know a few HOAs that busted the bank during the 09 storms. They spend most of their reserves for snow removal and now are trying to get a 75% assessment increase.

HOAer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So my guess was right, its white people rigging
> > the system again and keeping my people down.
> Okay
> > fine then I'll start playing rap music as loud
> as
> > I can and start throwing the race card around.
> > Maybe that's the way to get things changed I
> > guess. Maybe I'll go burn a black cross in the
> HOA
> > president's yard. Turnabout is fair play right?
>
>
> People elect other people they know, like, and
> trust. Perhaps they don't know you, or perhaps
> they do and don't like and trust you. I know
> plenty of people I don't like or trust, and race
> has nothing to do with it.

I met with our HOA president this afternoon. He was kind enough to take some time out of his day to sit down with me and explain the HOA process. Seems a bit odd to me, but nevertheless I took him at his word. At the end of the conversation he poured me a glass of brandy and we smoked a cuban cigar in his den. Then he and I were conversing about the development in Fairfax county and he mentioned the subsidized housing for the poor followed by a racist comment. He joked about it when he noticed that I was a bit offended by it. I may be a civilized, dark skinned educated man, but in his eyes I'm just some poor black man probably selling crack at the Community pool. So after some more embarrassing comments about his slanted views of Black history (he actually tried to convince me that black people LIKED being slaves of whites, like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington). Then I informed him I was a lawyer and that I would be suing.

Why do you white people always do this to us? I work hard, I pay my taxes, and I take good care of my family. My wife works hard and my kids are good, law abiding citizens. You let us get our hopes us and then one or more of you dash that hope. I haven't told my wife or kids what happened yet. I honestly don't know what to say to them.

Did this actually happen, or are you punking us? I can sort of believe that someone might be that racist, but its hard to believe that someone could be that stupid. If they were, then sue away. Hopefully, this guy is not representative of the rest of the community.

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOAer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > So my guess was right, its white people
> rigging
> > > the system again and keeping my people down.
> > Okay
> > > fine then I'll start playing rap music as
> loud
> > as
> > > I can and start throwing the race card
> around.
> > > Maybe that's the way to get things changed I
> > > guess. Maybe I'll go burn a black cross in
> the
> > HOA
> > > president's yard. Turnabout is fair play
> right?
> >
> >
> > People elect other people they know, like, and
> > trust. Perhaps they don't know you, or perhaps
> > they do and don't like and trust you. I know
> > plenty of people I don't like or trust, and
> race
> > has nothing to do with it.
>
> I met with our HOA president this afternoon. He
> was kind enough to take some time out of his day
> to sit down with me and explain the HOA process.
> Seems a bit odd to me, but nevertheless I took him
> at his word. At the end of the conversation he
> poured me a glass of brandy and we smoked a cuban
> cigar in his den. Then he and I were conversing
> about the development in Fairfax county and he
> mentioned the subsidized housing for the poor
> followed by a racist comment. He joked about it
> when he noticed that I was a bit offended by it. I
> may be a civilized, dark skinned educated man, but
> in his eyes I'm just some poor black man probably
> selling crack at the Community pool. So after some
> more embarrassing comments about his slanted views
> of Black history (he actually tried to convince me
> that black people LIKED being slaves of whites,
> like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington). Then
> I informed him I was a lawyer and that I would be
> suing.
>
> Why do you white people always do this to us? I
> work hard, I pay my taxes, and I take good care of
> my family. My wife works hard and my kids are
> good, law abiding citizens. You let us get our
> hopes us and then one or more of you dash that
> hope. I haven't told my wife or kids what happened
> yet. I honestly don't know what to say to them.

Sue for what - being a jerk? Get real - what is your cause of action? He made an offensive comment. So what? Being racist is not illegal. It may be ignorant, but it's not illegal. He didn't deny you a job or housing. BTW, saying 'you white people' is pretty offensive and racist in my view.

Burke Centre is the WORST!!!!!! By Far!! If I knew how they treated people I would NEVER have bought here. I have been here for 11 years. I never had any problems before this past year. Once you are on their radar you stay there. They send you violation letters for grass, but they make a list with pictures and the "violations" they write are unclear. They charge $10 a day until you are "compliant". Then when you fix it they change what the "violations" are so you are never compliant. Been dealing with this for three months... They put these Monetary Dues on my HOA Bill... I have only been paying my normal fees so they cant put a lien on my house. I can barely pay that. The dues we have are $250 quarterly... thats INSANE!! for them to plow three days after a snow storm, mow the common areas, and trash.... No our pools are NOT included... have to pay extra for that... Do not ever buy in Burke Centre

I bet all the people complaining have never attended HOA meetings...I pay close to $250 per month for HOA in Fairfax County...I attend every meeting..there might be one or two homeowners there...people are too busy or can't be bothered to attend..that's why they get away with all the crap they do..

To Feeling left out by the HOA () Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did this actually happen, or are you punking us?

I'm pretty certain the former. The brandy and cigar were suspicious, though at least plausible, but it really lost credibility at the black history/lawyer/suing portion.


For all those not on their HOA boards - there's a decent chance if you just show up for their meetings you'll have a significant voice in policy. I know my HOA only has a few people show up, but their input is given much more consideration (not being sarcastic) than the 400 people who don't show up.

I've gone to few HOA meetings tried to keep my mouth shut except for an occasional informational question. Even that was not welcomeed. Start having a hissy fit. Board pretty much goes along with management firm. I spoke to long time resident, 30 years, said she use to go and make suggestions but they really weren't welcomed. It's a racket for the management firms.

HOAer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HOAer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > So my guess was right, its white people
> > rigging
> > > > the system again and keeping my people
> down.
> > > Okay
> > > > fine then I'll start playing rap music as
> > loud
> > > as
> > > > I can and start throwing the race card
> > around.
> > > > Maybe that's the way to get things changed
> I
> > > > guess. Maybe I'll go burn a black cross in
> > the
> > > HOA
> > > > president's yard. Turnabout is fair play
> > right?
> > >
> > >
> > > People elect other people they know, like,
> and
> > > trust. Perhaps they don't know you, or
> perhaps
> > > they do and don't like and trust you. I know
> > > plenty of people I don't like or trust, and
> > race
> > > has nothing to do with it.
> >
> > I met with our HOA president this afternoon. He
> > was kind enough to take some time out of his
> day
> > to sit down with me and explain the HOA
> process.
> > Seems a bit odd to me, but nevertheless I took
> him
> > at his word. At the end of the conversation he
> > poured me a glass of brandy and we smoked a
> cuban
> > cigar in his den. Then he and I were conversing
> > about the development in Fairfax county and he
> > mentioned the subsidized housing for the poor
> > followed by a racist comment. He joked about it
> > when he noticed that I was a bit offended by it.
> I
> > may be a civilized, dark skinned educated man,
> but
> > in his eyes I'm just some poor black man
> probably
> > selling crack at the Community pool. So after
> some
> > more embarrassing comments about his slanted
> views
> > of Black history (he actually tried to convince
> me
> > that black people LIKED being slaves of whites,
> > like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington).
> Then
> > I informed him I was a lawyer and that I would
> be
> > suing.
> >
> > Why do you white people always do this to us? I
> > work hard, I pay my taxes, and I take good care
> of
> > my family. My wife works hard and my kids are
> > good, law abiding citizens. You let us get our
> > hopes us and then one or more of you dash that
> > hope. I haven't told my wife or kids what
> happened
> > yet. I honestly don't know what to say to them.
>
> Sue for what - being a jerk? Get real - what is
> your cause of action? He made an offensive
> comment. So what? Being racist is not illegal.
> It may be ignorant, but it's not illegal. He
> didn't deny you a job or housing. BTW, saying
> 'you white people' is pretty offensive and racist
> in my view.

So because you're white its okay to make clearly racist statements against either myself or someone of color? Sue for what? How about discrimination? Last time I heard THAT was against the law.

Sorry I don't mean to vent on your or the others, but I am so sick of this attitude. I guess I could understand it if I was into drugs or something, but I work hard, I've paid my dues. I just want better for my family.

If I were you, I'd invite all your black friends and relatives over for a "House Party". Make sure to invite all your "Colorful" black friends, you know the ones that like to rob, rape, loot. (Hey not being racist, just being a realist). Unleash them on your neighborhood and then the hilarity ensue!



and then this will happen...



Is there a problem officers!?!
Attachments:

Too Funny!

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> So because you're white its okay to make clearly
> racist statements against either myself or someone
> of color?

Did not say it was ok, I said it was ignorant and the guy sounded like a jerk. However, you do not have a constitutional right to not be offended, even by someone who is racist. That does not make it a crime.

> Sue for what? How about discrimination?
> Last time I heard THAT was against the law

I still am not seeing how you were discriminated against. He's not your employer or your real estate agent. It's not different than some asshole in a bar saying that stuff to you. Get over it.

HOAer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > So because you're white its okay to make
> clearly
> > racist statements against either myself or
> someone
> > of color?
>
> Did not say it was ok, I said it was ignorant and
> the guy sounded like a jerk. However, you do not
> have a constitutional right to not be offended,
> even by someone who is racist. That does not make
> it a crime.
>
> > Sue for what? How about discrimination?
> > Last time I heard THAT was against the law
>
> I still am not seeing how you were discriminated
> against. He's not your employer or your real
> estate agent. It's not different than some
> asshole in a bar saying that stuff to you. Get
> over it.


Not entirely true. My understanding is I can assert claims against the homeowners association. Breach of Fiduciary Duty as I and others are paying a yearly HOA dues/charge and per the bylaws they represent us. I also learned that Breach of Fiduciary Duty is often named as the primary cause of action. In certain instances for actions of gross negligence or fraud individual board members can be named. This is a developing area of the law. It is based in large part on the existing corporate law for actions against non-profit corporations.

Harassment and discrimination can restated as breach of fiduciary duty and selective enforcement. I looked into it further and here are some links that provide examples. Take a look at the causes of action and the legal theories that advanced:

http://barnettlawfirmltd.com/articles/fiduciary.htm" target="_blank">http://barnettlawfirmltd.com/articles/fiduciary.htm

http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/news/sub/pressrel/action/ShowMedia/id/202" target="_blank">http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/news/sub/pressrel/action/ShowMedia/id/202

http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecFLBerg.html target="_blank">http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecFLBerg.html

http://www.hoa-law.com/publications/fiduciary-responsibility-of-association-directors.html" target="_blank">http://www.hoa-law.com/publications/fiduciary-responsibility-of-association-directors.html

Sounds like "Feeling left out by the HOA" had an agenda opening which was different than he led on. Feel sorry now for wasting my time answering his question. I try not to spend too much time with unregistered users but I got suckered again, wasn't the first time and won't be the last.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like "Feeling left out by the HOA" had an
> agenda opening which was different than he led on.
> Feel sorry now for wasting my time answering his
> question. I try not to spend too much time with
> unregistered users but I got suckered again,
> wasn't the first time and won't be the last.

I didn't have an agenda going into this exactly, but I was curious to see how a group could appoint their own members when they represent families like mine and others. I don't see how that's fair. I'm paying my HOA dues as are others. I suppose I think of appointment = tyranny whereas elections = democracy.

You felt so strongly about it that you signed papers agreeing to the HOA's bylaws and rules, and put down a chunk of cash for a house in a neighborhood under those bylaws?

The time to complain about your situation was when deciding where you were going to live, electing to go elsewhere due to the bylaws stating members were appointed and not elected.

If there is something in the bylaws allowing a process for change (you get signatures for a petition or something) then do it, complaining here is a nice outlet but won't get your problem solved I'm guessing.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You felt so strongly about it that you signed
> papers agreeing to the HOA's bylaws and rules, and
> put down a chunk of cash for a house in a
> neighborhood under those bylaws?
>
> The time to complain about your situation was when
> deciding where you were going to live, electing to
> go elsewhere due to the bylaws stating members
> were appointed and not elected.

> If there is something in the bylaws allowing a
> process for change (you get signatures for a
> petition or something) then do it, complaining
> here is a nice outlet but won't get your problem
> solved I'm guessing.

Based on what I have seen, I'm looking at changing those by-laws by using the argument that there is a Breach of Fiduciary Duty. It's not just for me but others that live in the same community who have expressed similiar concerns. Some of the things the HOA does range from dubious to outright ridiculous.

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Not entirely true. My understanding is I can
> assert claims against the homeowners association.
> Breach of Fiduciary Duty as I and others are
> paying a yearly HOA dues/charge and per the bylaws
> they represent us. I also learned that Breach of
> Fiduciary Duty is often named as the primary cause
> of action. In certain instances for actions of
> gross negligence or fraud individual board members
> can be named. This is a developing area of the
> law. It is based in large part on the existing
> corporate law for actions against non-profit
> corporations.
>
> Harassment and discrimination can restated as
> breach of fiduciary duty and selective
> enforcement. I looked into it further and here are
> some links that provide examples. Take a look at
> the causes of action and the legal theories that
> advanced:
>
> http://barnettlawfirmltd.com/articles/fiduciary.ht
> m"
> target="_blank">http://barnettlawfirmltd.com/artic
> les/fiduciary.htm
>
> http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/news/sub/pre
> ssrel/action/ShowMedia/id/202"
> target="_blank">http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/
> src/news/sub/pressrel/action/ShowMedia/id/202
>
> http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecFLBerg.html
> target="_blank">http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecFLBerg
> .html
>
> http://www.hoa-law.com/publications/fiduciary-resp
> onsibility-of-association-directors.html"
> target="_blank">http://www.hoa-law.com/publication
> s/fiduciary-responsibility-of-association-director
> s.html

Oh, get over yourself. Your HOA president is not Bull Connor. You found one bigot and you're going to impoverish your own neighborhood by suing it? When you drive by the uncut grass from all the legal fees your own HOA has to pay, and all your neighbors hate you instead just a few, I'm sure you'll feel good about it. I'm sure if he actually discriminated against YOU - didn't plow your street, didn't fix the street light in front of your house - we would have heard about it by now. Just because a white person doesn't like you, or even a group of white people, does not make them racist. They may just think you are an asshole - in my experience, those come in all colors.

I still think you are not through transition - you never responded on that. Perhaps that did not fit your desire to be offended.

HOAer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Not entirely true. My understanding is I can
> > assert claims against the homeowners
> association.
> > Breach of Fiduciary Duty as I and others are
> > paying a yearly HOA dues/charge and per the
> bylaws
> > they represent us. I also learned that Breach
> of
> > Fiduciary Duty is often named as the primary
> cause
> > of action. In certain instances for actions of
> > gross negligence or fraud individual board
> members
> > can be named. This is a developing area of the
> > law. It is based in large part on the existing
> > corporate law for actions against non-profit
> > corporations.
> >
> > Harassment and discrimination can restated as
> > breach of fiduciary duty and selective
> > enforcement. I looked into it further and here
> are
> > some links that provide examples. Take a look
> at
> > the causes of action and the legal theories
> that
> > advanced:
> >
> >
> http://barnettlawfirmltd.com/articles/fiduciary.ht
>
> > m"
> >
> target="_blank">http://barnettlawfirmltd.com/artic
>
> > les/fiduciary.htm
> >
> >
> http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/news/sub/pre
>
> > ssrel/action/ShowMedia/id/202"
> >
> target="_blank">http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/
>
> > src/news/sub/pressrel/action/ShowMedia/id/202
> >
> > http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecFLBerg.html
> >
> target="_blank">http://www.ccfj.net/courtdecFLBerg
>
> > .html
> >
> >
> http://www.hoa-law.com/publications/fiduciary-resp
>
> > onsibility-of-association-directors.html"
> >
> target="_blank">http://www.hoa-law.com/publication
>
> >
> s/fiduciary-responsibility-of-association-director
>
> > s.html
>
> Oh, get over yourself. Your HOA president is not
> Bull Connor. You found one bigot and you're going
> to impoverish your own neighborhood by suing it?
> When you drive by the uncut grass from all the
> legal fees your own HOA has to pay, and all your
> neighbors hate you instead just a few, I'm sure
> you'll feel good about it. I'm sure if he actually
> discriminated against YOU - didn't plow your
> street, didn't fix the street light in front of
> your house - we would have heard about it by now.
> Just because a white person doesn't like you, or
> even a group of white people, does not make them
> racist. They may just think you are an asshole -
> in my experience, those come in all colors.
>
> I still think you are not through transition - you
> never responded on that. Perhaps that did not fit
> your desire to be offended.

I am the customer here and I am paying for a service. A service that I feel that neither myself or others of diverse color, nationality, etc are getting. How would you feel if you lived here and the HOA authorized to have a bandstand placed on the tip of your property to support a community yard sale? (This didn't happen to my family but another family in our community).

PS: A lawsuit doesn't necessarily mean that I would be seeking monetary compensation, other than legal fees. I'm not out to wreck the HOA, just "normalize" it. Feel better now?

This is an interesting discussion and I have a few questions now about HOA's in general:

1). If I were to move into a community with an HOA, do I have to join?

2). What happens if I do not join? Are their any penalities?

3). The poster above said that their HOA has appointed members and another poster said that HOAs usually have elections to chose board members. What are my rights when it comes to these people making decisions on my behalf? (Can they do it if I do not pay the HOA?)

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I am the customer here and I am paying for a
> service. A service that I feel that neither myself
> or others of diverse color, nationality, etc are
> getting. How would you feel if you lived here and
> the HOA authorized to have a bandstand placed on
> the tip of your property to support a community
> yard sale? (This didn't happen to my family but
> another family in our community).

On the tip of your property = on HOA land. If you don't want to live near a common area, don't buy property there. A community yard sales lasts a weekend at most - it must have been awful. Weeks of lost sleep, lost property value...as I said before, get over yourself.

BTW, you are not a customer - you are a member of the HOA. Your neighbors on the board are volunteering. Treating your neighbors like they work for you is not a great way for them to like you.

>
> PS: A lawsuit doesn't necessarily mean that I
> would be seeking monetary compensation, other than
> legal fees. I'm not out to wreck the HOA, just
> "normalize" it. Feel better now?

Oh, yes, lawsuits are free. Pay your legal fees plus HOA legal fees - how much would that cost? Plus while a lawsuit is going on, attention is not paid to things like the playground or the pool, or whatever project was being considered. Everyone who is decent and community-minded will quit, cause who wants to get sued? So you cost your HOA a bunch of money, nothing gets done for a year or more, but by God at the end you will have made sure everyone understands what your rights are.

Two Cents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is an interesting discussion and I have a few
> questions now about HOA's in general:
>
> 1). If I were to move into a community with an
> HOA, do I have to join?

Yes, it's written into the deed.
>
> 2). What happens if I do not join? Are their any
> penalities?

Your HOA dues pay for the common areas of HOA - which can be extensive or minimal, just depends upon how the area was developed. You could have a pool & tennis courts and club house, or just an entrance and some grass that needs to be mowed. Dues will vary accordingly.

If you don't pay your dues, eventually you'll either be sued or the HOA will place a lien on your home.
>
> 3). The poster above said that their HOA has
> appointed members and another poster said that
> HOAs usually have elections to chose board
> members. What are my rights when it comes to these
> people making decisions on my behalf? (Can they do
> it if I do not pay the HOA?)

When you buy your house, you get the HOA by-laws provided to you by law. If you don't like them, you can walk and not buy the home. Once you buy, you've accepted them and are governed by them. As to making decisions on your behalf, the biggest thing is an assessment - a payment required from you for something that needs to be fixed or added to the community. Let's say the filtration system on the community pool breaks and it's 50K to replace it. There's no money in reserve to do that. 200 homes are assessed $250 each to replace it. That can and does happen from time to time. That's why reading and understanding your HOA documents is critical when you buy a home. Anything that the HOA can become liable for over time is owned by you eventually along with all of the other homeowners in the HOA.

Thanks for the thorough explanation, it all makes sense to me now.

Two Cents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3). What are my rights when it comes to these
> people making decisions on my behalf? (Can they do
> it if I do not pay the HOA?)

If you don't pay the HOA fee they can place a lien on your property. The HOA dues are not optional. Google will produce many stories for you about HOAs forcing foreclosure on houses to pay late dues.

In some HOA neighborhoods the HOA dues also pay for trash collection and snow removal. Would you be happy if you paid for trash collection and your neighbor paid nothing, just stuck his trash on your pile twice a week? Same thing.

I wanted to thank everyone for their input. After meeting with the some neighbors over the weekend and a call to the HOA offices this morning, I believe we have decided we will go with the petition route and see if that yields some positive results.

Cool, let us know how it goes. If you pass on your methods, successes, failures, lessons learned, etc that will help others looking to do the same in situations like yours with appointed leadership. Even if it doesn't work out, the lessons learned will help so others can try different methods.

Violation Assessment Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOA wisdom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > HOAs are run by retired hags who want to turn
> your
> > home into part of their little dollhouse
> > community, control freaks with no jobs who like
> to
> > walk around with clipboards all digital
> cameras.
>
> And wives of colonels who failed to make general.
> Or the retired colonels themselves.


I remember hearing about a HOA near Mt. Vernon, can't remember the exact name. Anyway, there was this retired colonel that became the HOA president and was a tyrant. His name was Brenitzer, and the home owners began calling the neighborhood Fort Brenitzer! Evidently he was seen patroling the neighborhood and would post notices for infractioins, such as if someone got home late from work and hadn't brought their trash can in, or bicycles left in the front yard overnight.

justsayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cool, let us know how it goes. If you pass on
> your methods, successes, failures, lessons
> learned, etc that will help others looking to do
> the same in situations like yours with appointed
> leadership. Even if it doesn't work out, the
> lessons learned will help so others can try
> different methods.

Thank you I will. Hopefully we'll be able to straighten these crazy honkies out. (Laughing).

> Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > In my community, the HOA members are appointed,
> > not elected. I didn't realize this until after
> we
> > moved in. The more I take a look into it the
> more
> > shady it looks to me. Opinions?

Appointed by whom?

I like where we live. Nice big lots. The HOA if full of nuts on a power trip. We pay our dues and we keep out lot and home in great shape. What bothers me is others who think we should be on the HOA.

One old bat even told me we owed it to others who have served. No way. I already have a demanding job and young kids.

Signed,

Leave me alone!

appoint me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > In my community, the HOA members are
> appointed,
> > > not elected. I didn't realize this until
> after
> > we
> > > moved in. The more I take a look into it the
> > more
> > > shady it looks to me. Opinions?
>
> Appointed by whom?

Ah, that is the question. Apparently by the HOA president, not by the paying members. My neighbors and I are still waiting for a copy of the by-laws.

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> appoint me Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > In my community, the HOA members are
> > appointed,
> > > > not elected. I didn't realize this until
> > after
> > > we
> > > > moved in. The more I take a look into it
> the
> > > more
> > > > shady it looks to me. Opinions?
> >
> > Appointed by whom?
>
> Ah, that is the question. Apparently by the HOA
> president, not by the paying members. My neighbors
> and I are still waiting for a copy of the by-laws.


You sure it's not something like in my HOA where all the homeowners elect the "board", which in turn then appoints the officers? Of course, there's a 5-person board, and 5 officers, so they just figure out amongst themselves each year who's going to do which role.

So although technically we don't vote for the officers (they're appointed), for all intents and purposes we do by voting for the board.

snowdenscold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > appoint me Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > >
> > > > > In my community, the HOA members are
> > > appointed,
> > > > > not elected. I didn't realize this until
> > > after
> > > > we
> > > > > moved in. The more I take a look into it
> > the
> > > > more
> > > > > shady it looks to me. Opinions?
> > >
> > > Appointed by whom?
> >
> > Ah, that is the question. Apparently by the HOA
> > president, not by the paying members. My
> neighbors
> > and I are still waiting for a copy of the
> by-laws.
>
>
> You sure it's not something like in my HOA where
> all the homeowners elect the "board", which in
> turn then appoints the officers? Of course,
> there's a 5-person board, and 5 officers, so they
> just figure out amongst themselves each year who's
> going to do which role.
>
> So although technically we don't vote for the
> officers (they're appointed), for all intents and
> purposes we do by voting for the board.


I have seen similar structures on other boards that the Board Chairman is elected, and then all other positions are appointed by the Chairman. This obviously concentrates power in one person, but it may also be a way of filling the board. Finding one person to run is not that hard, but finding 5 maybe more challenging.

I've served on a couple volunteer boards (Not HOA) and finding people to volunteer is a big problem. Everyone likes the organization and what it does, but no one wants to serve on a board. People are more than happy to criticize though. I recall sweating my ass off running a bbq event, and someone taking the time to give me a ration of shit that a vegetarian option was not provided. I invited her to run the grill for an hour so I could go the grocery store and get some veggie burgers. Needless to say, she did not take me up on it.

BTW, you were provided a copy of the by-laws when you bought your house.

Just google abolish HOA. Your home values are shot right now with or without the HOA. Your excuses for maintaining these groups are false. More people in your neighborhood than you think want to do away with your HOA.


Get yourself elected to the board. Find out what the "Majority" is. Take a vote to disolve the HOA. Hire an attorney to privatize all common property like pools, etc. We did it here and you can do it too. Good Luck!

Steve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Get yourself elected to the board. Find out what
> the "Majority" is. Take a vote to disolve the HOA.
> Hire an attorney to privatize all common property
> like pools, etc. We did it here and you can do it
> too. Good Luck!


How exactly do you 'privatize' a community pool or playground? That really doesn't make a lot of sense. No one is going to make any money running a stand alone community pool or playground. Unless they buy it to pave it over and build a 7-Eleven.

I think what is missing are laws to protect the home owner from HOA's.

Do you have any specific complaints about the Greenbriar Civic Association? Why do you call the board pompous and self-serving, have they done anything specific for you to describe them that way?

I agree that the GCA needs younger board members and needs to revitalize itself and the neighborhood. It's kind of in a rut right now, but they do some things. The GCA advocates on behalf of the neighborhood with county leaders and offices; most people don't see that, but it has a big effect on the lives of people who live in Greenbriar. They maintain the clubhouse and sponsor a few neighborhood events every year. I think the GCA needs to be more active and should involve more Greenbriar residents, but at least it isn't in everybody's hair like an HOA would be.

Feeling left out by the HOA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wanted to thank everyone for their input. After
> meeting with the some neighbors over the weekend
> and a call to the HOA offices this morning, I
> believe we have decided we will go with the
> petition route and see if that yields some
> positive results.


Since someone bumped this thread back up, whatever happened with your petition drive Left Out?

Rather than get on a board just to do away with the HOA (which couldn't be done anyway) - why not get on the board to do some good. If you don't like the way an HOA is run, then get elected and be be a good steward.

Without an HOA, my neighorhood would have no street or parking maintenance, no playgrounds, no trash removal, no snow plowing, no tree trimming, no signs, lots of overgrown yards, debris, ugly houses, dogs crapping everywhere, cars parked in yards, rotting decks and fences, and lots of overcrowded houses filled with illegals.

People alwasy want to whine and complain, but nobody wants to be a part of the solution.

Adam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think what is missing are laws to protect the
> home owner from HOA's.


Exactly. The VA legislature should pass a law that any HOA can be dissolved with a XX % vote from the homes represented by it.

Ant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think what is missing are laws to protect the
> > home owner from HOA's.
>
>
> Exactly. The VA legislature should pass a law
> that any HOA can be dissolved with a XX % vote
> from the homes represented by it.

They have, knucklehead, its called the Property Owners' Association Act. And you change virtually anything about the way your HOA operates with a 2/3 vote.

Or you could just bitch about it here....

You need HOA's to keep the immigrants and niggers from fucking up the neighborhoods. And to keep the snobby rich self-absorbed douchebags from doing whatever they want to do to their property, regardless of how it looks or affectd the neighborhood. Nobody wants to see your "look at me" giant sized satellite dish in the back yard, asshole. No body wants to see cars parked in the front grass because it's 16 illegals living in the house. Nobody wants to come home to a neighborhood and find 25 ghetto ass black dudes just hanging in the fucking street dicking around.

why be informed? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Adam Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I think what is missing are laws to protect
> the
> > > home owner from HOA's.
> >
> >
> > Exactly. The VA legislature should pass a law
> > that any HOA can be dissolved with a XX % vote
> > from the homes represented by it.
>
> They have, knucklehead, its called the Property
> Owners' Association Act. And you change virtually
> anything about the way your HOA operates with a
> 2/3 vote.
>
> Or you could just bitch about it here....

That's to change a policy, and that's fine.

I'm talking about an indvidual home owner. There should be a law that says, the home owner has X amount of days to pay a fine, this is what happens if you don't. This should be the same for all HOA's.

I know there are HOA's that will fine you, send you a letter with 5 days to pay the amount. What if your traveling.

----
This happened to me..

A HOA puts a note on your car, that says it will be towed in 5 days unless you pay a fine. This is the first warning i got, and i was out of town for 7 days. I did not get the note until 2 days after the deadline. It was a friday night. I called FCPD, HOA, no one could help. FCPD couldn't do anything because it was private property. I couldn't get in contact with anyone at the HOA to let them know i would pay and not to tow. So i was left watching my car until Monday when i could get ahold of someone.

If they did tow my car, there is nothing to protect me from this.

Adam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> If they did tow my car, there is nothing to
> protect me from this.


Sure there is. It's called knowing the rules of the contract you agreed to when you purchased the home, and then not parking where you are not allowed to park. How hard is that?

i wonder how long it'll be until people realize that HOA's are backfiring -- all these dumb ass rules are negatively impacting home values, even moreso when you add in the annual HOA dues.

yeah the rules can be changed with a 2/3 vote, but good luck getting a quorum at the annual meeting -- most people are too busy with their lives to spend time worrying about how high the neighbor's grass gets when he goes on vacation for a week.

I think HOAs are good AND bad.

Bad is that they can be overbearing and nitpicky about REALLY stupid stuff. I've heard of ones that dictate what you can and can't drive, even if it is parked in your garage. There was a case in TX that said that you couldn't own a pickup, of any kind. That's ridiculous.

The good is that it keeps ghetto people in line, and those that couldn't care less about how their property looks.

In my father's neighborhood there is no HOA, and everyone keeps their houses looking relatively decent. The average home is worth around $500,000 but there are about 5 homes that look like absolute dumps. One has about 15 immigrants living in it, and has all sorts of crap jaloppy cars around it, and one of their landscaping trucks drove THROUGH the garage and they didn't fix it for two years. The garage was hanging sideways.

Another guy has two work vans that haven't moved in at least 5 years, and he has a boat on the side of the house that hasn't moved in so long that the tree that has grown under the trailer, and around the hull has a trunk that is 10 inches in diameter. He never mows his lawn and never landscapes. The houses on either side are absolutely perfect in every sense of the word.

If there was an HOA, those shitheads wouldn't even be there.

You can't take an active role in your community to maintain or improve its value? Getting to know and cooperating with your neighbors, buying local to support small business, adopting a highway, or taking part in your local government are all ways to maintain the beauty, cleanliness, order and value of any neighborhood.

HOA's are sometimes a pain in the ass, good thing we don't have it. When you buy a home with an HOA, the HOA controls anything outside the house: roof, siding, driveway, yard, plants, doors, windows. Some HOAs are very strict, you cannot plant, paint, build or change anything without written permission from the HOA. Some HOAs will choose the color paint your house, door, windows will be, they will choose the brand of paint you use. They will choose the color and brand of roof you get, they own you! Inside the house, you can do whatever you want.