I'm just curious who pays to have security checks on employees? (the government or the contracting company?)

Also how much does it cost for the clearance? (secret and TS?)

The contractor pays for the clearance. I don't know the amount.

I don't know about a collateral Top Secret, but TS/SCI usually run around 100k. Sometimes more, sometimes a lot less. Depends on how much they have to investigate; some people have a lot more history and background that needs to be investigated.

As Meeper said, the contractor or government agency pays for the clearance of the employee.

Blessed are the murderous.

100K seems like a bit much. I'd say more like 10K.

I dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 100K seems like a bit much. I'd say more like
> 10K.


Wrong. "I'd say" you don't know what you're talking about.

Blessed are the murderous.

And they aren't "paying for" the clearance. Agencies have their own investigators look into your past and talk to your neighbors and former employers. I'm not sure who contractors have doing their investigations. Maybe they pay 100K, but i doubt that, that seems prohibitively expensive.

Each agency decides it's own criteria for personnel to be granted clearances. One agency may consider a DUI a disqualification for example while another agency may not.

Are you in the private sector eesh? 100K just seems too much for one employee to be given a clearance.

I dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And they aren't "paying for" the clearance.
> Agencies have their own investigators look into
> your past and talk to your neighbors and former
> employers. I'm not sure who contractors have
> doing their investigations. Maybe they pay 100K,
> but i doubt that, that seems prohibitively
> expensive.
>
> Each agency decides it's own criteria for
> personnel to be granted clearances. One agency
> may consider a DUI a disqualification for example
> while another agency may not.


If you're hired by Lockheed Martin and you need a TS/SCI clearance, guess who pays for the investigation? Lockheed Martin.

If you go into the Navy and take an MOS that requires said clearance, guess who pays for it? The Navy.

Each agency DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN INVESTIGATORS. Usually clearances are handled by OPM, the military used to have their own internal investigators, the DSS, but I haven't seen that in years.

A large part of the costs come from the length of the investigation. If it only takes a few months, it will be significantly cheaper than an investigation that takes years (I know people that waited two years.)

Each agency DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN CRITERIA. There is something called adjudicative guidelines, these are standard across the entire government, not unique to each agency.


To "I dunno,"


You need to stop polluting this thread with garbage that shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

I dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you in the private sector eesh? 100K just
> seems too much for one employee to be given a
> clearance.


No shit Sherlock, it's why private contractors and agencies are reluctant to hire someone without a clearance, no matter how great their qualifications may seem.

Even after the employer pays for this process, there is no guarantee or personal right to receive a clearance.

Not all clearances will cost 100k, it is unique to each individual.

If it's an 18 recruit going into the military that needs a TS/SCI, and they have no credit history, no criminal history, never lived in more than one place, the investigation will be shorter and less expensive than a 40 year old that has lived in five different states, had a bankruptcy, pays child support, and has had 10 different jobs since he started working.

EDIT: Investigations only go back 7 years, some 10, but there is a lot covered in that time that needs to be investigated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 10:01PM by eesh.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Each agency DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN INVESTIGATORS.

You'd definitely be wrong there. I am 10o% certain that there are certain agencies that have their own investigators. I obtained a TS/SCI to work at one of the most regognizeable gov't agencies. I applied for and was selected for a position at another agency 18 months later. I had to go through the entire TS (not SCI) background investigation a THIRD time in four years. The person conducting the investigation was a retired employee of the agency I went to work for. That is the the SOP at that agency. It is a sham, but it is reality.

cleared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Each agency DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN
> INVESTIGATORS.
>
> You'd definitely be wrong there. I am 10o%
> certain that there are certain agencies that have
> their own investigators. I obtained a TS/SCI to
> work at one of the most regognizeable gov't
> agencies. I applied for and was selected for a
> position at another agency 18 months later. I had
> to go through the entire TS (not SCI) background
> investigation a THIRD time in four years. The
> person conducting the investigation was a retired
> employee of the agency I went to work for. That
> is the the SOP at that agency. It is a sham, but
> it is reality.


Bullshit. If what you are saying is true, your access would have transferred between employers.

OPM is not what it used to be. Ever since 1992 their responsibilities have been diminishing. Most of your TS type agencies conduct their own investigations now. OPM does however conduct investigations for the hiring of many non security clearance type employees for example for the IRS. That's not to say that they never investigate TS clearances. But most of your agencies known for TS/SCI do conduct their own investigations. OMP was going to take over investigations for the DOD in the early 2000's, but that plan didnt work out.

And they do have different standards. This has been a problem for people who are applying to a different agency for work and already have a security clearance in their previous agency. Their new job may require higher standards for TS clearance then their old job.

cleared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Each agency DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN
> INVESTIGATORS.
>
> You'd definitely be wrong there. I am 10o%
> certain that there are certain agencies that have
> their own investigators. I obtained a TS/SCI to
> work at one of the most regognizeable gov't
> agencies. I applied for and was selected for a
> position at another agency 18 months later. I had
> to go through the entire TS (not SCI) background
> investigation a THIRD time in four years. The
> person conducting the investigation was a retired
> employee of the agency I went to work for. That
> is the the SOP at that agency. It is a sham, but
> it is reality.


Correct - NOT bullshit.

I dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OPM is not what it used to be. Ever since 1992
> their responsibilities have been diminishing.
> Most of your TS type agencies conduct their own
> investigations now. OPM does however conduct
> investigations for the hiring of many non security
> clearance type employees for example for the IRS.
> That's not to say that they never investigate TS
> clearances. But most of your agencies known for
> TS/SCI do conduct their own investigations. OMP
> was going to take over investigations for the DOD
> in the early 2000's, but that plan didnt work
> out.
>
> And they do have different standards. This has
> been a problem for people who are applying to a
> different agency for work and already have a
> security clearance in their previous agency.
> Their new job may require higher standards for TS
> clearance then their old job.


This post is garbage and is filled with so much bullshit I don't even know where to begin.

You are clearly making this up and have no experience with clearances. You're just a troll arguing to for argument's sake. Go away.

Just because you post under "I dunno" and then support yourself under "cleared" doesn't give your posts any more credibility.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 10:32PM by eesh.

eesh, call OPM tomorrow morning and ask them if they conduct investigations for security clearances for DOD, FBI, CIA for example.

(202) 606-1800

I think you'll be disappointed at how wrong you are.

I'm not that guy. Why do you think everyone here is the same person?

I in fact do know what I'm talking about

I dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I in fact do know what I'm talking about


If that is true, you wouldn't have made the comment "call OPM tomorrow morning and ask them if they conduct investigations for security clearances for DOD, FBI, CIA for example."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 10:38PM by eesh.

Just call and ask.

They handle a lot of calls from nut bags every day

In 2005 congress merged DSS into OPM and they now handle over 90% of all govt clearances, including all of the DoD work that DSS had.

Pricing does not vary between individual investigations, only between types. A TS is about 4K, roughly.

In the know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Pricing does not vary between individual
> investigations, only between types. A TS is about
> 4K, roughly.




Not true at all, but I'm sure you knew this being "in the know."


Searching the internet for "cost of Top Secret Security Clearance" will bring back wikianswers and yahoo Q & A; you know, the final authority on correct information.

The cost is based on highly individual factors, not like shopping for something at a retail store where there is a set price.

Are there clearances that will cost only a few thousand dollars? Okay....but the average investigation takes at least one year. That includes investigators traveling to different parts of the country, the adjudicator making a decision, pulling up background checks, etc. I hardly think it costs what you are claiming.

Blessed are the murderous.

eesh wrote:
---------------------------------------------------

>will bring back wikianswers and yahoo Q & A


So you've finally revealed where you get your infinite amounts of incorrect information.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you are the one trolling.

eesh the troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -
>
> >will bring back wikianswers and yahoo Q & A
>
>
> So you've finally revealed where you get your
> infinite amounts of incorrect information.
>
> Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you are
> the one trolling.


My comment "Searching the internet for "cost of Top Secret Security Clearance" will bring back wikianswers and yahoo Q & A; you know, the final authority on correct information." was sarcasm.

My point is that searching the web is not going to give you a correct answer on the cost/price of a clearance. You need to be working in that environment to understand how a clearance works.

Nice job at taking my words out of context.

Blessed are the murderous.

It seems like several people who work in that environment put in their two cents

i dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems like several people who work in that
> environment put in their two cents




No, just one person posting under different anonymous names. You're just arguing to be arguing, you haven't a clue, and when you realized it, you resort to taking my words out of context.

Keep searching the internet for the costs of a clearance, you aren't going to find the right answer.

Blessed are the murderous.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cleared Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > eesh Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Each agency DOES NOT HAVE THEIR OWN
> > INVESTIGATORS.
> >
> > You'd definitely be wrong there. I am 10o%
> > certain that there are certain agencies that
> have
> > their own investigators. I obtained a TS/SCI
> to
> > work at one of the most regognizeable gov't
> > agencies. I applied for and was selected for a
> > position at another agency 18 months later. I
> had
> > to go through the entire TS (not SCI)
> background
> > investigation a THIRD time in four years. The
> > person conducting the investigation was a
> retired
> > employee of the agency I went to work for.
> That
> > is the the SOP at that agency. It is a sham,
> but
> > it is reality.
>
>
> Bullshit. If what you are saying is true, your
> access would have transferred between employers.

It didn't. and I am not trying to pull a "you're pwned" moment. I am just shedding some light on my own personal experiences with clearances. You might think you are the expert on this sort of thing, and maybe you do have some experience on the subject, but what I can tell you is that you are dead wrong on this matter. Access doesn't automatically transfer and I am living proof of that. Here is my clearance history:

Gov't entity 1:

TS granted November 2005

TS/SCI granted August 2006

Gov't entity 2:

TS granted April 2007

TS/SCI granted August 2007

Gov't entity 3:

TS granted May 2009

I hae filled out the SF 86 more times than most people. Why? Because each entity I worked for required it. It wasn't until the last time I figured out that it is a boondoggle for retired government employees. The last one in 2009 confirmed my suspicions. If the government wants to cut costs, this is one area to investigate.

For real, why do you think everyone is the same person?

One of the other posters even contradicted me and you. Now why would I do that to myself?

You are starting to sound like Spunky

cleared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It didn't. and I am not trying to pull a "you're
> pwned" moment. I am just shedding some light on
> my own personal experiences with clearances. You
> might think you are the expert on this sort of
> thing, and maybe you do have some experience on
> the subject, but what I can tell you is that you
> are dead wrong on this matter. Access doesn't
> automatically transfer and I am living proof of
> that. Here is my clearance history:
>
> Gov't entity 1:
>
> TS granted November 2005
>
> TS/SCI granted August 2006
>
> Gov't entity 2:
>
> TS granted April 2007
>
> TS/SCI granted August 2007
>
> Gov't entity 3:
>
> TS granted May 2009
>
> I hae filled out the SF 86 more times than most
> people. Why? Because each entity I worked for
> required it. It wasn't until the last time I
> figured out that it is a boondoggle for retired
> government employees. The last one in 2009
> confirmed my suspicions. If the government wants
> to cut costs, this is one area to investigate.


I've worked with an FSO, I've worked in S2 when I was in the military, and I can tell you:

You are bullshitting, and you're making this up as you go along.


Goodnight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 12:03AM by eesh.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've worked with an FSO, I've worked in S2 when I
> was in the military, and I can tell you:
>
> You are bullshitting, and you're making this up as
> you go along.
>
>
> Goodnight.


Maybe in 1952 they did things a little differently.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cleared Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > It didn't. and I am not trying to pull a
> "you're
> > pwned" moment. I am just shedding some light
> on
> > my own personal experiences with clearances.
> You
> > might think you are the expert on this sort of
> > thing, and maybe you do have some experience on
> > the subject, but what I can tell you is that
> you
> > are dead wrong on this matter. Access doesn't
> > automatically transfer and I am living proof of
> > that. Here is my clearance history:
> >
> > Gov't entity 1:
> >
> > TS granted November 2005
> >
> > TS/SCI granted August 2006
> >
> > Gov't entity 2:
> >
> > TS granted April 2007
> >
> > TS/SCI granted August 2007
> >
> > Gov't entity 3:
> >
> > TS granted May 2009
> >
> > I hae filled out the SF 86 more times than most
> > people. Why? Because each entity I worked for
> > required it. It wasn't until the last time I
> > figured out that it is a boondoggle for retired
> > government employees. The last one in 2009
> > confirmed my suspicions. If the government
> wants
> > to cut costs, this is one area to investigate.
>
>
> I've worked with an FSO, I've worked in S2 when I
> was in the military, and I can tell you:
>
> You are bullshitting, and you're making this up as
> you go along.
>
>
> Goodnight.

I wish I was, those processes have actually put my career on hold for a while. I have more than enough evidence to support my claims. My personnel file is littered with letters of clearances granted - all within a four year period. Can you say the same thing? I personally understand the need between entity one and two, but quite honestly, the move to entity three was a completely unnecessary waste of government resources. As an FSO, how many different agencies do you deal with regarding clearance transfers, for instance, are all yours DoD related? Have you ever dealt with law enforcement clearances, EOP clearances, DoE clearances, etc?

i dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For real, why do you think everyone is the same
> person?
>
> One of the other posters even contradicted me and
> you. Now why would I do that to myself?
>
> You are starting to sound like Spunky


Somebody accuse me of something again?

When I say something it is the truth, why would I waste my time with anything else? That would be down right stupid.

Not this is what I have to say about that:

Early on in 2000 my husband at the time needed a TS clearance. We moved into the area in 1999. I had not developed any close friends here but when I was in training with NFCU for skip tracing guess what I saw under my name? I saw a lot of names of people I did not know and some I did. One name that stood out was a name of a old woman at my church. She was listed as a friend. We barely spoke but we always set right in front of her when she was there. Her husband who never attended was retired Navy. One day I heard another old lady sit down beside her and ask, "Who are you here for?" I don't believe I was intended to see all the information because as I left I was told they would have to totally redesign their training program. Thank to that experience I discovered my kids step mom was illegal before marrying their dad. Taking that job provided me with a wealth of information. Seems like the more one learns one has to ask who the hell is in charge, or IS anyone truely in charge here.

By the way misery stop PM me, I do not like you, I have never liked you and will never like you, understand?

I'm not sure why you guys are arguing about something like clearances. Anyways, I'm no expert but I have worked in the security field for a while.

I do know that OPM handles background investigations for DoD (which includes Army, Navy, etc.).

FBI, CIA, DOE and other agencies outside of DoD handle their own investigations and adjudications.

Most government agencies use reciprocity and will accept clearances granted from other agencies (for example, an FBI Top Secret can sometimes transfer to DoD). There are times I have seen though where a brand new investigation had to run when someone got employeed with a new agency even though their TS is current.

A comment made earlier by eesh saying that contractors don't like to hire people without a clearance because they (the company) has to foot the bill is kind of inaccurate. ALL contractor employees must be sponsored under a contract to be put in for a security clearance. A company can't just hire someone and try to pay for a clearance. A person must be submitted for a clearance in direct correlation with a classified contract. A DD254 must be on file.

The main reason companies won't hire someone who doesn't yet have a clearance is because the person would have to wait the entire length of the clearance process while charging their time directly to corporate overhead. It makes more sense for them to hire a guy with a clearance and put him right to work.

A request for an SCI clearance MUST be sponsored by a government agency. A contractor just can't submit whoever they like for SCI. There must be an SCI contract in place, and the government agency that executes the contract must sponsor the SCI.

I also just found on the Depart of Commerce website that they use OPM to conduct background investigations. These are the associated costs they list:

Background Investigation Costs:

Initial Investigation Costs

LOW RISK (LR)
No Clearance
NACI
$121

MODERATE RISK (MR)
No Clearance
MBI
$673

HIGH RISK (HR)
No Clearance
BI
$3670

NON-CRITICAL SENSITIVE (NCS)
Secret
ANACI
$296

CRITICAL SENSITIVE (CS)
Secret
BI
$3670

CRITICAL SENSITIVE (CS)
Top Secret
SSBI
$4271

SPECIAL SENSITIVE (SS)
Top Secret/SCI
SSBI
$4271

So according to them, a TS and a TS/SCI are in the $4k range. That is far off from $100k. That number is insane. An OPM investigator makes around 50-60k salary a year (based on how many cases they handle). I've know 2 investigators and they both made in that range. Investigators handle multiple cases. They man-hours spent on each case is not very high. Travel costs are minimal because they don't send an investigator from DC to go talk to your great aunt in Wyoming. Any time an interview is required, the closest investigator is sent. Thinking about all the moving parts of the clearance process, there's not a chance in hell that it would cost 100k.

And 100k is farrrrrr off from the 4k the Dep. of Commerce spends for a TS/SCi clearance. Unless they are getting a discount haha.

so where is this $100k he wouldnt shuttup about?

A single scoped background investigation (SSBI) for a TS or compartment clearance/access is approx 6K. The granting of the clearance is a paperwork drill to review the case file and grant the clearance or "adjudicate" for accesses above TS.

While it would be nice to think this process is efficient, you would be sadly mistaken.

While OPM does the bulk of the background investigations, the IC in most cases use their own contactors to do the background checks plus the clearances, accesses, and polygraphs. These in many cases run up to 20K but not much more.

Clearance funnnnnnnnnn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also just found on the Depart of Commerce
> website that they use OPM to conduct background
> investigations. These are the associated costs
> they list:
>
> Background Investigation Costs:
>
> Initial Investigation Costs
>
> LOW RISK (LR)
> No Clearance
> NACI
> $121
>
> MODERATE RISK (MR)
> No Clearance
> MBI
> $673
>
> HIGH RISK (HR)
> No Clearance
> BI
> $3670
>
> NON-CRITICAL SENSITIVE (NCS)
> Secret
> ANACI
> $296
>
> CRITICAL SENSITIVE (CS)
> Secret
> BI
> $3670
>
> CRITICAL SENSITIVE (CS)
> Top Secret
> SSBI
> $4271
>
> SPECIAL SENSITIVE (SS)
> Top Secret/SCI
> SSBI
> $4271
>
> So according to them, a TS and a TS/SCI are in the
> $4k range. That is far off from $100k. That number
> is insane. An OPM investigator makes around 50-60k
> salary a year (based on how many cases they
> handle). I've know 2 investigators and they both
> made in that range. Investigators handle multiple
> cases. They man-hours spent on each case is not
> very high. Travel costs are minimal because they
> don't send an investigator from DC to go talk to
> your great aunt in Wyoming. Any time an interview
> is required, the closest investigator is sent.
> Thinking about all the moving parts of the
> clearance process, there's not a chance in hell
> that it would cost 100k.
>
> And 100k is farrrrrr off from the 4k the Dep. of
> Commerce spends for a TS/SCi clearance. Unless
> they are getting a discount haha.



Congrats on continuing to google for an answer that disputes what I have posted. If you notice, you have copy and pasted INITIAL COSTS.

Testing Testing 123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A single scoped background investigation (SSBI)
> for a TS or compartment clearance/access is approx
> 6K. The granting of the clearance is a paperwork
> drill to review the case file and grant the
> clearance or "adjudicate" for accesses above TS.


If you knew what you were talking about, if you had any experience with clearances in the first place, you would see how the statement you have written is garbage.

You're too determined to make my answer seem incorrect for me to even explain it to you.

Clearance funnnnnnnnnn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> FBI, CIA, DOE and other agencies outside of DoD
> handle their own investigations and adjudications.

Hmmmmmmm....you sure about that? I will not argue that some three letter agencies will have their own investigators, but I know for a fact OPM can and will handle investigations across the entire government.


> Most government agencies use reciprocity and will
> accept clearances granted from other agencies (for
> example, an FBI Top Secret can sometimes transfer
> to DoD).

LMAO It's not reciprocity, as it is about having a standardized clearance with standardized guidelines.


> A comment made earlier by eesh saying that
> contractors don't like to hire people without a
> clearance because they (the company) has to foot
> the bill is kind of inaccurate. ALL contractor
> employees must be sponsored under a contract to be
> put in for a security clearance. A company can't
> just hire someone and try to pay for a clearance.
> A person must be submitted for a clearance in
> direct correlation with a classified contract. A
> DD254 must be on file.


There are still significant costs to the contractor.



> The main reason companies won't hire someone who
> doesn't yet have a clearance is because the person
> would have to wait the entire length of the
> clearance process while charging their time
> directly to corporate overhead. It makes more
> sense for them to hire a guy with a clearance and
> put him right to work.


NOT TRUE. Interim clearance for the win!

Generally there are two ways to get clearances. One is an independent company that directly pays for the clearance and that can take up to two years to even just get started. The cost is between 20k-50k.

The second, and it might be the only way right now, is to work for a contract where you need to be cleared. In this case the government agency pays for the clearance and the clearance investigation is jumped to the front of the line.

A basic clearance they will pull financial records(tax records), run criminal record checks, interview friends, family members and past co-workers. Basically looking for drug abuse, marital history, ties to foreign countries, dishonesty, or erratical behavior.

The more they find of the above the more they dig deeper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 01:26PM by Lurker..

These clearances are a fucking joke. My X was diagnosed a sociopath at Andrews Air Force Base before getting his TS clearance and after getting a psch evaluate to work at Marine Barracks and the stories I could tell you.

Nothing but the truth so help me God! Now he works at NCIS. He ripped bad fit reps out of his OPF, what a character. Don't get me started.

Another juicy tidbit! The ex-CFO of Nucor steel was kicked out of the Air Force Academy for cheating. Check it out you will not find any mention of his college education anywhere. The fact that this happens across the board is proof to the fact that we as a country lost our moral high ground centuries ago. Ego will destroy us, hell it already has but who the hell am I to conclude such? I am called crazy by a lot of people. Why does it take so many to convince the world I am fucking crazy? Maybe because I know to much? WAKE UP PEOPLE! Things are not getting better but worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 09:56PM by I am Spunky.

I work for a contractor and the Airforce did my BI.

As someone who has worked in this realm for over 18 years, let me see if I cannot help squash some of the rumors on associated with this post.

There is a cost associated with conducting an investigation, but it's not like the contractor pays DSS, OPM, or "Whoever" to conduct the investigation.

For example - Let's assume you accept a job which requires a TS/SCI clearance with one of the many contractors (i.e. Northrop, Lockheed, BAE, CACI, etc), and you have no clearance at the time of accepting the position. The contractor would have to pay an overhead cost to "tank"(a worksite for un-cleared personal you while your SSBI is being conducted. When you sit in the "Tank" you are unable to charge directly to the contract, thus there is an overhead cost which the company/contractor must absorb. In some cases the company can find you un-classified work to do, while waiting for you clearance to be adjudicated, but this is rare (or at least in my experience it's been rare).

What most people seem to get confused is they believe the contractor pays the government to conduct the investigation. Nothing could be further from the truth, as the investigation is actually paid for by your tax dollars. The reason most companies do not hire personal without existing clearances, is they do not want to pay the overhead cost of keeping someone on the payroll charging to an indirect charge number, which ultimately comes out of the contractors profit margin.

Someone on the board mentioned ITERIM clearances. Well, they do have INTERIM clearances, but most "customers" will not allow a person to work on a project with an INTERIM. As a matter of fact most contracts I have worked on dictate the person must have final adjudication, and be "read on" the program before they are allowed to access to the program work areas/information.

The good news is a TS-SSBI is taking around three - six months to complete these days, which is a vast improvement over how long it took two years

cleared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cleared Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > It didn't. and I am not trying to pull a
> > "you're
> > > pwned" moment. I am just shedding some light
> > on
> > > my own personal experiences with clearances.
> > You
> > > might think you are the expert on this sort
> of
> > > thing, and maybe you do have some experience
> on
> > > the subject, but what I can tell you is that
> > you
> > > are dead wrong on this matter. Access
> doesn't
> > > automatically transfer and I am living proof
> of
> > > that. Here is my clearance history:
> > >
> > > Gov't entity 1:
> > >
> > > TS granted November 2005
> > >
> > > TS/SCI granted August 2006
> > >
> > > Gov't entity 2:
> > >
> > > TS granted April 2007
> > >
> > > TS/SCI granted August 2007
> > >
> > > Gov't entity 3:
> > >
> > > TS granted May 2009
> > >
> > > I hae filled out the SF 86 more times than
> most
> > > people. Why? Because each entity I worked
> for
> > > required it. It wasn't until the last time I
> > > figured out that it is a boondoggle for
> retired
> > > government employees. The last one in 2009
> > > confirmed my suspicions. If the government
> > wants
> > > to cut costs, this is one area to
> investigate.
> >
> >
> > I've worked with an FSO, I've worked in S2 when
> I
> > was in the military, and I can tell you:
> >
> > You are bullshitting, and you're making this up
> as
> > you go along.
> >
> >
> > Goodnight.
>
> I wish I was, those processes have actually put my
> career on hold for a while. I have more than
> enough evidence to support my claims. My
> personnel file is littered with letters of
> clearances granted - all within a four year
> period. Can you say the same thing? I personally
> understand the need between entity one and two,
> but quite honestly, the move to entity three was a
> completely unnecessary waste of government
> resources. As an FSO, how many different agencies
> do you deal with regarding clearance transfers,
> for instance, are all yours DoD related? Have you
> ever dealt with law enforcement clearances, EOP
> clearances, DoE clearances, etc?


Doesn't sound like bullshit to me. In fact, it mirrors my experience exactly.

Oh, you served as an S2. Thanks for the weather reports. Enough said.

You went on to be an FSO? More than enough said.

eesh,
you're an idiot. they posted "initial clearance" costs not because it's "part" of the initial clearance but because it's for the INITIAL clearance, the first time you get it, which takes longer by nature, idiot. to RENEW or EXTEND your clearance, a "follow=on clearance" will not cost as much, since they only have to review the last 5 years. And nobody is going to give someone INTERIM access to SCI, you idiot. You may be able to get a temporary clearance for access to TS, on a commander or designated agency supervisor's signature, but you still have to have the national agency check and state check first--nobody in their right mind would just give someone access to TS and take that responsibility without some level of confidence. why in the world would you sit here and embarrass the crap out of yourself, by trying to impress a few people that are stupid enough to fall for your line of bull and conspiracy garbage? TS is just a base, so is SCI. If you're changing agencies that deal with different compartments, it only makes sense that they're going to have their own peeps do some basic researching and make sure you're CURRENT (they may only research the year since your last clearance was approved). That way they can make sure you didn't run over a grandma during a DUI on vacation and you're awaiting a criminal trial, or there's a lawsuit against your LLC for fraud, or it went into bankruptcy, you own three houses and four luxury speed boats, etc. This crap ain't rocket science people. As people here stated, it most likely cost $4-6K for a TS, and possibly another $4-6 for an SCI, and probably only 1/3-1/2 that cost for a renewal. And as people stated, companies prefer to hire people that already have clearances so they don't have to foot the bill, but more importantly because they can immediately offer up a candidate for a job, rather than wait for a clearance that takes up to a year or longer, or even 3-6 months if it's a renewal. $100K is some BS that recruits hear, nothing more than urban legends. Anyone that doesn't think they talk to neighbors, old employers, and friends and neighbors of friends and neighbors is just stupid and wrong. Anyone that thinks a team of agents flies all over the country interviewing people is stupid--it makes more monetary sense to have contracted people in major cities that can cruise out to urban areas when necessary, and submit the paperwork to the people adjudicating the entire package. eesh, just STFU. anyone believing or listening to eesh, fine, be stupid, that just makes it easier for the rest of us to get your jobs, your money, and your women.

DB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And nobody is going to give someone
> INTERIM access to SCI, you idiot. You may be able
> to get a temporary clearance for access to TS, on
> a commander or designated agency supervisor's
> signature....






Yeah, I think we are done here.

Blessed are the murderous.

Good lord! I have no idea how much it costs but I just ordered 10 secret clearances for my firm. I know for a fact I didn't just spend 1 mil so I'd guess a few thousand each at the most.

100k??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good lord! I have no idea how much it costs but I
> just ordered 10 secret clearances for my firm. I
> know for a fact I didn't just spend 1 mil so I'd
> guess a few thousand each at the most.





For future reference for when you want to bullshit people, you don't order up security clearances like you are online shopping....

Blessed are the murderous.

Why on earth would I think it cool to make up that ordered security clearances? I work for a big firm. I print out 10 of our standard forms, have each employee sign them, scan and send them to the security division that sends them to whatever agency performs them. Frankly, that's about all I know. I do have a billing code that I enter in our internal system and it goes to accounting. I don't really give a shit about additional details but just figured I'd share that it's a quick and simple process at my firm and 100k would be crazy. Sorry that me sharing seemed to offend you eesh! I'm not so desperate for status that I'm making up stuff trying to impress unknown posters on some random website.

It's weird to me that you'd instantly go to regular posters being "bullshitters". I can't apologize for your skewed perspective. I usually like you eesh, stop being a dick.

100k??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I print out 10 of our standard forms, have
> each employee sign them, scan and send them to the
> security division that sends them to whatever
> agency performs them. Frankly, that's about all I
> know. I do have a billing code that I enter in our
> internal system and it goes to accounting.





You don't know what you are talking about, and you are just making this up as you are going along. LOL at "print out standard forms."

Blessed are the murderous.

Our system has a form that the employee fills out. Why the fuck am I even trying to justify myslef to you, eesh? Seriously, stop being a dick. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Depending on the contract, the staff need security clearances. When they do, I explained the procedure. That's it. I'm not trying to impress anyone, just figured that for what I know, it's a pretty standard and basic process that would surpise me if it were all that expensive.

Goddammit. Why the fuck are you cruicifying me for sharing my experience? You're everything that's wrong with this site. People come here for honest opinions like a real forum based on specific subjects but shits like you have turned it into a venue for bullying to make you feel better about yourself. Fuck you. I was just sharing my experience and don't give a shit whether you believe me or not.

100k??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our system has a form that the employee fills out.





Oh, so you don't use SF-86s for your employees, and you don't submit them electronically like everyone else has been doing for years and years....."your system" has got its own form to fill out and your employees magically get a security clearance.


LOL

Blessed are the murderous.

I don't know, eesh. I'm on the very front end. My form is not called an SF-86, it's an internal form with my firm's name on top. That's my experience. I don't know if after I get that form collected and forward it to the security department, they intiation another process. I'm only testifying to what I know. My point was that it's a very quick and basic process and if 100k were behind each request, it wouldn't be so quick and painless.

What's up you ass? You're the only person here who can have any experience with security clearances or something?

So I think it's a fact that no-one but eesh is going to know anything about this subject. He's accused so far at least 5 people of "not knowing what they are talkiing about" so I guess that's just how it is for this post. If you want honest experiences not tainted by bullying, go somewhere else.

100??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know, eesh. I'm on the very front end. My
> form is not called an SF-86, it's an internal form
> with my firm's name on top. That's my experience.
> I don't know if after I get that form collected
> and forward it to the security department, they
> intiation another process. I'm only testifying to
> what I know. My point was that it's a very quick
> and basic process and if 100k were behind each
> request, it wouldn't be so quick and painless.




LOL

Blessed are the murderous.

So eesh, unless we work for the same firm (which I'm thinking is quite possible), my employer orders more security clearances than anyone else in the country (make the deductive inference and then you'll know who I work for). So I'm not sure why you have so much sand up your vagina about this issue but fuck right off. I was just trying to answer the OP's question without insisting on being such a know it all ass.

LOL @ thinking all clearances are the same. Most agencies have their own "version" of clearance requirements for a given level and thus differing costs. But by all means, continue to compare & contrast apples to oranges.

HoJo Hotel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL @ thinking all clearances are the same. Most
> agencies have their own "version" of clearance
> requirements for a given level and thus differing
> costs.





This is not true.

Blessed are the murderous.

Surprise, surprise, eesh has found another person to disagree with. Why don't you go fuck yourself. It's obvious now that there are a variety of people who have experience setting up security clearances and they all seem to disagree with your experence. I'm seeing a pattern here.

3 of these things belong together, one of these things is all alone!

So there are multiple people stating facts that their firms/employers do it this particular way and it is their experience that security clearances cost this much or are scheduled in this manner, but the know it all eesh states "that is not true" so be it. His experience must trump all the rest of ours. I suppose I'm delusional or something in how I've scheduled security clearances for my co-workers and all others who disagree with the great almighty eesh are also wrong for whatever his experience must be the only way it ever goes.

If you were not so argumentative eesh, I'd be more likely to believe that you might know what you are talking about. However, based on your behavior, you are now more likely in my mind, a 10th grader at Lake Braddock than you are some ex-military vet now contracting with a big firm privy to top secret clearance protocols.

Sorry, you've shown your stripes.

All government security clearances are done using the SF-86.

Google it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All government security clearances are done using
> the SF-86.


http://www.opm.gov/e-QIP/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At my firm, there's a form for everything. The form that is filled out to initiate the Security clearance form is internal. I've said that I don't know where it goes after I scanned and forward it to the other folks. If they then complete the 86 form and get additional signatures, I don't know and never said I did.

At my level, when we need one, we complete the form I've referring to. My whole point was that there is no way this process would cost as much as eesh was say given the casual manner we order them when the contract calls for it. Also, there is no way that the contract could absorb those kinds of costs because we'll do it even if the contract is short term.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HoJo Hotel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LOL @ thinking all clearances are the same.
> Most
> > agencies have their own "version" of clearance
> > requirements for a given level and thus
> differing
> > costs.
>
>
>
>
>
> This is not true.

Allow me to educate you, again...

"Security clearances can be issued by many United States government agencies, including the Department of Defense (DoD), the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Energy (DoE), the Department of Justice (DoJ), and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)."
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._security_clearance_terms

That's excluding other lesser known derivatives like US Mint, IRS, BoP and even some bigger ones like NSA/etc.

Again... they aren't all the same. They don't all cost the same, either :)

The fact that you have to use wikipedia as a source of "proving" yourself right, shows that you have no clue what you are talking about, and are just interested in attempting to prove me wrong.





Again, despite what you think the wikipedia article says, your statements are simply not true.

Blessed are the murderous.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 02:46PM by eesh.

Yes; I referenced irrefutable evidence from a widely accepted source to support the accuracy of my statements. Remind us where your "proof" lies? Your ass?

HoJo Hotel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes; I referenced irrefutable evidence




LOL at wikipedia being irrefutable evidence.

Blessed are the murderous.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HoJo Hotel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes; I referenced irrefutable evidence
>
>
>
>
> LOL at wikipedia being irrefutable evidence.


Surely you're not dumb enough to completely discount all of Wikipedia regardless of the cited content itself? are you? That's taking stereotyping to a higher level!

Anyhow, back to educating you. Help us almighty eesh; which parts of the previously linked Wikipedia article can you refute? A specific interest on the whole part where there /are/ many varieties of clearances and levels (thus costs) would be helpful. Also important would be something other than "your word" of course. Thx!

Google it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All government security clearances are done using
> the SF-86.


That's only half correct. Some on done using the Sf-85.

The SF-85 is only used for public trust investigations. National security investigations use the SF-86.

Google it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The SF-85 is only used for public trust
> investigations. National security investigations
> use the SF-86.





I think he was being a smartass.

Blessed are the murderous.

But eesh continues to say "that is not true". Isn't that enough for you all? And secondly, he's eesh! Nuff said.

SSBI's used to cost Federal agencies about $3250 for an expedited product back in 2005. I would expect that there has been a slight increase, but I doubt they would be anymore than $4000, today.

Government spends whatever it costs to get you cleared. Anywhere from 2-10K, depending on your history and where you grew up. The more they need to work and dig, the more they spend.

The contractor doesnt pay a thing, just part of the business. BUT they do have to hire Security personnel to maintain security papers, etc.

agent man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The contractor doesnt pay a thing, just part of
> the business.





This also is not true, "agent man."

Blessed are the murderous.

Ultimately, We all pay for the clearances these people obtain. A contractor is not going to shell out X ammount of money and not make it back in a reasonable time frame.

Clearance funnnnnnnnnn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure why you guys are arguing about
> something like clearances. Anyways, I'm no expert
> but I have worked in the security field for a
> while.
>
> I do know that OPM handles background
> investigations for DoD (which includes Army, Navy,
> etc.).
>
> FBI, CIA, DOE and other agencies outside of DoD
> handle their own investigations and adjudications.
>
>
> Most government agencies use reciprocity and will
> accept clearances granted from other agencies (for
> example, an FBI Top Secret can sometimes transfer
> to DoD). There are times I have seen though where
> a brand new investigation had to run when someone
> got employeed with a new agency even though their
> TS is current.
>
> A comment made earlier by eesh saying that
> contractors don't like to hire people without a
> clearance because they (the company) has to foot
> the bill is kind of inaccurate. ALL contractor
> employees must be sponsored under a contract to be
> put in for a security clearance. A company can't
> just hire someone and try to pay for a clearance.
> A person must be submitted for a clearance in
> direct correlation with a classified contract. A
> DD254 must be on file.
>
> The main reason companies won't hire someone who
> doesn't yet have a clearance is because the person
> would have to wait the entire length of the
> clearance process while charging their time
> directly to corporate overhead. It makes more
> sense for them to hire a guy with a clearance and
> put him right to work.
>
> A request for an SCI clearance MUST be sponsored
> by a government agency. A contractor just can't
> submit whoever they like for SCI. There must be an
> SCI contract in place, and the government agency
> that executes the contract must sponsor the SCI.


This has been my experience as well. I just got my clearance renewed and it took 2 to 3 months to do. since it was a DoD clearance, I talked to a Federal Investigative Service agent (OPM). I was surprised that it wasn't an OPM contractor like last time. They may not have even contacted most of my friends and former co-workers to interview them. They didn't last time. I have yet to ask my neighbor if someone came by to talk to him.

A couple years ago, I was interviewed by a retired FBI agent who was on a part-time contract to the FBI for clearance investigations. A friend of mine's daughter was going through their clearance process. Unlike the FIAs person, they didn't have a ton of shit they hauled out. Just sat down and talked and he asked all the usual questions, but didn't jot anything down. Kind of like a casual convo.

My dad worked for the CIA for working career until retirement and then as a contractor for a few years. Any time he or any of his coworkers were up for renewal, it was an internal investigator coming by to talk.

As for price, my dad said it could get expensive, especially if you moved all over the place and never really stayed in one place.

Low/Mid level Secret and Top Secret clearances for Fed Gov 3rd party contractor applicants run from 4-20K depending on depth of residence and employment history. Cost increases to higher end and beyond depending on level of polygraph and lifestyle analysis (if required) and the cost is always covered by the contract employer. You cannot purchase your (own) security clearance and the background investigation is mostly completed by a separate OPM authorized investigative contract security entity. NSA, NRO, CIA- and many more-- use their own intra-agency departments to complete a full background investigation- start to finish. They spare no expense on investigating direct-hires and maintain healthy protected budgets for their unique investigations that are necessary for their respective security screening processes.

Guest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Low/Mid level Secret and Top Secret clearances for
> Fed Gov





There is no such thing as a lower or mid level Secret clearance. A Secret clearance is a Secret clearance.

Blessed are the murderous.

There a depths of how the security clearance process is completed for each investigation. Yes- the end result is obtaining a Secret or higher level clearance.

I have a top secret clearance and it cost my employer 75K.

Eesh is right, the clearance depends almost entirely on how expansive your travels, criminal, employment, and financial history go back. I was a CTI in the Navy and have a current TS/SCI, and it only took me 4 months to get mine because I'd never been anywhere. an E6 crossing rates took 2 years, because he was from Mexico, and married to a Ukranian.

I got mine a Walmart for an amazing $39.97. It came with a 2"x2" picture and your choice of red, black or fake leather carrying case.

A Top Secret is pretty useless in general. There is rarely going to be something that is above Secret but below TS/SCI to check out. I don't even know why they bother.

Also, it shouldn't cost anywhere around these figures being posted.

Apparently Experts Inc used a low budget operation for the Navy Yard shooter. I can't imagine they spent any 10K on that wacko!

roflz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Top Secret is pretty useless in general. There
> is rarely going to be something that is above
> Secret but below TS/SCI to check out. I don't even
> know why they bother.


you are incorrect

The Experts hired him last year and he was investigated at that time. He went on-site at the Navy Yard August 25, but had been working at other Navy work sites up until that time. Since the work was part of the same contract with HP and the Navy, they didn't check him out again.

A number of parties will have to answer for why he was kept on after they learned he was psychologically disturbed.

HO just canned The Experts.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304526204579097391644873308.html

roflz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Top Secret is pretty useless in general. There
> is rarely going to be something that is above
> Secret but below TS/SCI to check out. I don't even
> know why they bother.
>
> Also, it shouldn't cost anywhere around these
> figures being posted.

Top Secret is usually for sensitive defense information. Yes, there is a need to differentiate between Secret and Top Secret. The costs can vary depending on who is being investigated. Mine was relatively easy because at the time I'd only lived in one town all my life. (I was 18 years old) Some of my fellow troops (Army Intelligence) had lived all over the country, gone go college, traveled a lot, etc so their clearances required a lot more investigation.

Your comment about a TS being useless only exposes your lack of information of such things.

A lot of secrets aren't for the protection of the country as we found out with the NSA and Iraq.

In these times, the consensus is that the higher the leve of clearance, the better it is for job prospects and job security.

OldSpook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> roflz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A Top Secret is pretty useless in general.
> There
> > is rarely going to be something that is above
> > Secret but below TS/SCI to check out. I don't
> even
> > know why they bother.
> >
> > Also, it shouldn't cost anywhere around these
> > figures being posted.
>
> Top Secret is usually for sensitive defense
> information. Yes, there is a need to differentiate
> between Secret and Top Secret. The costs can vary
> depending on who is being investigated. Mine was
> relatively easy because at the time I'd only lived
> in one town all my life. (I was 18 years old) Some
> of my fellow troops (Army Intelligence) had lived
> all over the country, gone go college, traveled a
> lot, etc so their clearances required a lot more
> investigation.
>
> Your comment about a TS being useless only exposes
> your lack of information of such things.

cool story bro. tell it again.

I dunno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh, call OPM tomorrow morning and ask them if
> they conduct investigations for security
> clearances for DOD, FBI, CIA for example.
>
> (202) 606-1800
>
> I think you'll be disappointed at how wrong you
> are.

Woman's badge said OPM :)

In this age of contractor placement at federal agencies, it may still be a contractor doing the investigation.

Oh-oh,

500 investigations for OPM may be falsified.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/25/us-usa-security-clearances-idUSBRE98O04Z20130925

I have to say, you folks just made my afternoon, . I laughed out loud at some of your statements. I will not correct or refute any of your statements. BUT if you are who you think you are, please read HSPD-12 (that's Homeland Security Presidential Directive 12 for the layman)

This guy got clearance.
Attachments:

When I worked as a DSS and FISD Special Agent (retired in 2010) upwards of $10,000 for TS clearance. Secret, confidential and public trust clearances are less on average. Not sure how much they are today..everything costs more now than then.

USA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just curious who pays to have security checks

The American taxpayers pay.
Where do you think the money comes from?
Whether directly by the agency, or whether the contractor
pays it and rolls it into the contract costs that they bill for.

The individual getting the clearance does not pay.
You can't order one. The feds tell you when your
employee needs one. And then everyone uses the taxpayers'
money to pay to get it done.

Yes it's about $100K.

There is also the matter of having the employee on the
payroll for 3-6 months while waiting for it to coem through.
The company has to pay that person their salary, but they
can't work on stuff. The company has to find busy-work for
them to do, and pays them. Where do you imagine the company
got the money with which to pay people like that? It is from
jacking up the overhead on all the contracts.

So it's really more like $200-250K for expensive employees.
Only $150K to clear a peon.

There could be other costs I'm not considering here...

OldSpook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The costs can vary depending on who is being investigated.
> Mine was relatively easy because at the time I'd only lived
> in one town all my life. (I was 18 years old) Some
> of my fellow troops (Army Intelligence) had lived
> all over the country, gone go college, traveled a
> lot, etc so their clearances required a lot more
> investigation.

The first TS I got was easy and took weeks because I was a kid like that.

The most recent one I got, decades after the first one lapsed,
was after 45 more years of living and traveling all over the
ountry, moving every few years, working in many jobs, lots of
contact with foreign nationals and an assortment crazy friends,
the Internet, working for a porno company secretly,
bankruptcies, all kinds of fun things.

They had to pay me about $100K to do nothing for months.

It took a looong time.

Could'a been worse: I was never out of the country!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2019 06:00AM by This Just In Fairfax.

OldSpook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> roflz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A Top Secret is pretty useless in general.
> There
> > is rarely going to be something that is above
> > Secret but below TS/SCI to check out. I don't
> even
> > know why they bother.
> >
> > Also, it shouldn't cost anywhere around these
> > figures being posted.
>
> Top Secret is usually for sensitive defense
> information. Yes, there is a need to differentiate
> between Secret and Top Secret. The costs can vary
> depending on who is being investigated. Mine was
> relatively easy because at the time I'd only lived
> in one town all my life. (I was 18 years old) Some
> of my fellow troops (Army Intelligence) had lived
> all over the country, gone go college, traveled a
> lot, etc so their clearances required a lot more
> investigation.
>
> Your comment about a TS being useless only exposes
> your lack of information of such things.

Old Spook: Were you ASA? I was a LFCF.

I went from having no clearance, to having a public trust, to having a TS/SCI clearance all in the span of about a year and a half.