My next door neighbor's kid is pretty smart. He graduated near the top of his class and blew his SAT's out of the water. He decided he wanted to stay in-state and applied to the four school above. He got into all four and I think he got some subtantial cash from a couple. When his dad told me that he got accepted at all those schools, I assumed that he would go to UVa or W&M (really, I thouht it'd be UVa--he just seems to fit that mold). They're the best schools out of the four and they're just as inexpensive.

Anyway, I run into his dad yesterday and ask if the kid's excited to go to UVa next fall. He tells me the kid chose Tech! I about fell out of my car. I can't believe anyone would choose Tech over UVa for any reason. I tried to be as polite as possible, but seriously, Tech...in Blacksburg? Maybe the kid got a full ride or maybe he wants to be an engineer...but, still, c'mon!

maybe the kid is a psychopath

Or maybe he just knows quality when he sees it.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or maybe he just knows quality when he sees it.


Are you saying that Tech is of a superior quality to UVa? Surely you jest.

The kid is not as smart as his father said. UVA!

Maybe he has friends going to Va Tech and thinks Tech is more of a party school. It could also be he doesn't like the snobby astigmatism of UVA.

Tech may have a better engineering track, but overall UVA blows away any school in the state by a long run. UVA is also a party school.

The only part of UVA I don't like is that when many students party at UVA they get in a strange belligerent violent mode.

If you want to produce an unjustifiable snob that doesn't make any more than anyone graduating from any of the four noted schools, UVA is a good choice.

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warhawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Or maybe he just knows quality when he sees it.
>
>
> Are you saying that Tech is of a superior quality
> to UVa? Surely you jest.

VaTech isn't superior to any of the schools listed.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to produce an unjustifiable snob that
> doesn't make any more than anyone graduating from
> any of the four noted schools, UVA is a good
> choice.

Pleae provide a source. You're contending that the average UVa grad doesn't make more than Tech or JMU? There's simply no way that's true. UVa is only school in the state that Wall St. investment banks will recruit at. That, by itself, would tend to bring up the average. Over the long haul, I'd also like to test your theory. UVa has a bigger endowment of the schools listed, which would seem to indicate that the grads to pretty darn well. I think UVa's endowment is 6 times that of Tech.

If you are going to be stuck living on a campus for four years, you might as well go to a place you enjoy being at. It might just be a better fit for the kid. I mean, UVA is snobby. W&M is where the "band kids" go. And JMU strikes me as a glorified commuter campus. So Tech might just make sense for this particular kid.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are going to be stuck living on a campus
> for four years, you might as well go to a place
> you enjoy being at. It might just be a better fit
> for the kid. I mean, UVA is snobby. W&M is where
> the "band kids" go. And JMU strikes me as a
> glorified commuter campus. So Tech might just make
> sense for this particular kid.


This is a fine point, and I'm sure it's what he was thinking when he made the choice, but if you've ever compared Blacksburg to Charlottesville, there's no comparison. Blacksburg is an armpit.

VaTech has rasied up substantially in the last decade on all fronts. UVA is still top dog overall, but JMU is really losing cred fast. Keep throwing riotous parking lot parties there, Duke Dogs.

Yabels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VaTech has rasied up substantially in the last
> decade on all fronts. UVA is still top dog
> overall, but JMU is really losing cred fast. Keep
> throwing riotous parking lot parties there, Duke
> Dogs.


It doesn't help that the campus is split in two by I-81.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you are going to be stuck living on a campus
> > for four years, you might as well go to a place
> > you enjoy being at. It might just be a better
> fit
> > for the kid. I mean, UVA is snobby. W&M is
> where
> > the "band kids" go. And JMU strikes me as a
> > glorified commuter campus. So Tech might just
> make
> > sense for this particular kid.
>
>
> This is a fine point, and I'm sure it's what he
> was thinking when he made the choice, but if
> you've ever compared Blacksburg to
> Charlottesville, there's no comparison. Blacksburg
> is an armpit.


It depends on what you're looking for. I'm biased - I'm a VT alum. But when I was applying for colleges, I decided to go in state (to save $$$) and I visited all of the main colleges and some of the smaller ones. I was undecided as a major, so it really didn't matter for me in terms of "which school has the best program for such and such". I loved Blacksburg - small town, far enough away from my parents, and a real sense of community. That's where I wanted to go and I'm glad I did.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you want to produce an unjustifiable snob that
> > doesn't make any more than anyone graduating from
> > any of the four noted schools, UVA is a good
> > choice.
>
> Pleae provide a source. You're contending that the
> average UVa grad doesn't make more than Tech or
> JMU? There's simply no way that's true. UVa is
> only school in the state that Wall St. investment
> banks will recruit at. That, by itself, would tend
> to bring up the average.

Sorry, but your assumptions are mistaken. It may have a bigger endowment (I don't know) but that doesn't mean the average graduate from UVA makes a larger starting salary as the average graduate from the other schools.

Source One:

Please see this link... notice the word "engineering" all over it? I don't see "investment banker" in the top fifteen. In fact that category was severely hit in the past two years in case you don't keep up with the news... new grads see much higher competition now, as they are competing with seasoned veterans in a smaller job market. When Bear and Lehman went away, those bankers have to go somewhere.

The report linked below is less than one year old.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/highest_starting_salaries/index.htm

Now, if you wanted to get into the engineering categories listed in that report, are you going to go to Virginia Tech or to UVA? It would be silly to pick UVA. It is a very common misconception that students from UVA or other "elite" schools fare any better than those from the other state colleges. It is an image those schools created over time and heavily rely on to keep tuitions up.


Source two: Virginia Tech BEATS UVA

http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp

Again, 2009 report. Read and lament the extra money you spent on UVA, sure didn't do the kid any good.

University of Virginia (UVA): median start $52,200, median career $97,200

Virginia Tech: median start $52,900, median career $97,400


Your turn.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2010 12:00PM by pgens.

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> solly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If you are going to be stuck living on a
> campus
> > > for four years, you might as well go to a
> place
> > > you enjoy being at. It might just be a better
> > fit
> > > for the kid. I mean, UVA is snobby. W&M is
> > where
> > > the "band kids" go. And JMU strikes me as a
> > > glorified commuter campus. So Tech might just
> > make
> > > sense for this particular kid.
> >
> >
> > This is a fine point, and I'm sure it's what he
> > was thinking when he made the choice, but if
> > you've ever compared Blacksburg to
> > Charlottesville, there's no comparison.
> Blacksburg
> > is an armpit.
>
>
> It depends on what you're looking for. I'm biased
> - I'm a VT alum. But when I was applying for
> colleges, I decided to go in state (to save $$$)
> and I visited all of the main colleges and some of
> the smaller ones. I was undecided as a major, so
> it really didn't matter for me in terms of "which
> school has the best program for such and such". I
> loved Blacksburg - small town, far enough away
> from my parents, and a real sense of community.
> That's where I wanted to go and I'm glad I did.


Well, more power to you. I'm not contending that Tech isn't a solid institution. I'm just saying that UVa, by all accounts, seems better. One question: did you have the choice of attending UVa? If so, doesn't Charlottesville seem to have the same small-town feel that Blacksburg has, but just nicer?

Anyway, I don't really care. I went to a private school up north.

I didn't even apply to UVA. I forget my reasoning, but I didn't want to go there.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

UVA is better regarded in liberal arts and humanities. Their business school is obviously among the elite in the ACC with Duke and UNC. I think VT is in the top four on the East Coast for engineering undergrad behind MIT, Rennsalear, and GT.

There are some problems with your "analysis."

> Sorry, but your assumptions are mistaken. It may
> have a bigger endowment (I don't know) but that
> doesn't mean the average graduate from UVA makes a
> larger starting salary as the average graduate
> from the other schools.
>
> Source One:
>
> Please see this link... notice the word
> "engineering" all over it? I don't see
> "investment banker" in the top fifteen.


You need to learn how to read. This is an article about top majors in terms of salary, not top professions. As far as I know, "investment banker" isn't a major. Also, by most statistics, doctors and lawyers are the highest earners out of any profession, also not undergrad majors. You're comparing apples and oranges.


> Now, if you wanted to get into the engineering
> categories listed in that report, are you going to
> go to Virginia Tech or to UVA?

First, who says you do? Engineers aren't the highest earners in terms of a profession, but they are in terms of a major. Get your categories straight. Do you think that liberal arts Dartmouth got the top of that list churning out engineers? No, they did it by churning out lawyers, bankers and doctors.

It would be silly
> to pick UVA. It is a very common misconception
> that students from UVA or other "elite" schools
> fare any better than those from the other state
> colleges. It is an image those schools created
> over time and heavily rely on to keep tuitions
> up.

How different is the tuition between UVa and VA Tech for in-state? I'm curious.

>
> Source two: Virginia Tech BEATS UVA
>
> http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colle
> ges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp
>
> Again, 2009 report. Read and lament the extra
> money you spent on UVA, sure didn't do the kid any
> good.
>
> University of Virginia (UVA): median start
> $52,200, median career $97,200
>
> Virginia Tech: median start $52,900, median career
> $97,400


You need to learn a bit about statistics before you make this argument. Medians test the highest occurrence of a point within a range, not the upper limits or earning potential. Of course a school churning out engineers is going to have more price points on the upper end. In fact, I'm surprised UVa is even that close given how many underwater basket weavers there are there.

To me, the most indicitive stat about the success of a school's grads is the endowment. It demonstrates a) that the alumni have gobs of $$ to toss around and b) they credit the school with their success. Va Tech - roughly $600 mm; UVa - $3.5 billion.

Also, finally, I don't care. I didn't attend these schools. You, on the other hand, should learn to not celebrate before you score, especially when your argument is full of holes.

UVA - Business Majors

VT - Engineering Majors

This would explain why Wall Street firms recruit from UVA and not VT.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Les Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UVA is better regarded in liberal arts and
> humanities. Their business school is obviously
> among the elite in the ACC with Duke and UNC. I
> think VT is in the top four on the East Coast for
> engineering undergrad behind MIT, Rennsalear, and
> GT.


UVa's law school is one of the best in the country and their med school is very higly regarded. Just saying.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UVA - Business Majors
>
> VT - Engineering Majors
>
> This would explain why Wall Street firms recruit
> from UVA and not VT.


I don't know about that. Ivy League schools aren't exactly brimming with business majors (except for Penn), but the investment banks love them. I think it has to do with the overall quality of the student.

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I don't know about that. Ivy League schools aren't
> exactly brimming with business majors (except for
> Penn), but the investment banks love them. I think
> it has to do with the overall quality of the
> student.


It has to do with "group think." A big chunk of those students are legacy kids who will suck ass on the job but who come from the "right families."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Les Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > UVA is better regarded in liberal arts and
> > humanities. Their business school is obviously
> > among the elite in the ACC with Duke and UNC. I
> > think VT is in the top four on the East Coast
> for
> > engineering undergrad behind MIT, Rennsalear,
> and
> > GT.
>
>
> UVa's law school is one of the best in the country
> and their med school is very higly regarded. Just
> saying.

Lawyers and Doctors also have the highest rates of alcoholism and suicide than any profession other than law enforcement. So UVA is pretty good at pushing out drunks and unstable individuals.

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need to learn a bit about statistics before
> you make this argument. Medians test the highest
> occurrence of a point within a range, not the
> upper limits or earning potential.

Your challenge was, and I quote:

> You're contending that the
> average UVa grad doesn't make more than Tech or
> JMU?


YOU used the term "average." I got as close as I could come in the second source with medians, as that is what they report. The first source does not say whether median or mean was used. And the median is the "middle number" in a range, you are referring to a "mode" above, which refers to frequency in a data set. Where did you go to school again?

Asking for "earning potential" would require checking what all grads have made, picking the highest amount, and calling that "potential"... it is a totally useless number. Some podunk school that produced a major corporate CEO would then be able to advertise their grads' earning potential of several million dollars a year and we as reaosnable people could plainly see that was BS. Useless. The sources I gave are the most useful, objective way to answer what you are questioning.


Note to you: Your response was entirely inappropriate after challenging someone for sources and they provide it. If you call BS on someone and they answer it and prove their assertion valid (and yours invalid), the proper response is "Sorry, I need to re-evaluate my assumptions and thank you for taking the time to provide that information, especially from sources so current."

Okay. Let's get back to the OP's original point.

Here's an answer for you. It's not your kid. It doesn't impact you in any way whatsoever. Why do you give a fuck?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It doesn't impact you in any way whatsoever. Why do
> you give a fuck?

If that were the basis for any posts on this board, how many would you have? How much of your inane drivel actually impacts you?

Almost all of the people that graduated in the top 30 of my high school went to Tech. It's definitely not for slackers.

The original poster didn't say the non-UVA schools were for slackers, but did say the "obvious" choice for anyone would be UVA over all the choices listed. "I can't believe anyone would choose Tech over UVa for any reason."

He was asking for reasons, we gave them. Thread WIN :)

wait a second Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It doesn't impact you in any way whatsoever. Why
> do
> > you give a fuck?
>
> If that were the basis for any posts on this
> board, how many would you have? How much of your
> inane drivel actually impacts you?

The hotness or notness of women impacts me very deeply.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wait a second Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It doesn't impact you in any way whatsoever.
> Why
> > do
> > > you give a fuck?
> >
> > If that were the basis for any posts on this
> > board, how many would you have? How much of
> your
> > inane drivel actually impacts you?
>
> The hotness or notness of women impacts me very
> deeply.



Yes, the one you started yesterday was one of the better ones. The Hot or Not threads have been mediocre lately.

Who the hell threw JMU into the mix? JMU is barely a step above Longwood and VCU.

So it's settled. UVA is the top school for business and law and VA Tech is top school for engineering. Blacksburg and Charlottesville are both small town armpits.

Tech has better shooters, but UVA has better women beaters.

This kids is probably going to party his ass off and fail out the first semester anyway.

This may be the dumbest post I have come across. It revolves around an anonymous (or non-existent) "pretty smart" kid who received offers of matriculation at four of the Commonwealth's better schools, and then attempts to answer a query as to which one is "best". Here's the answer - the best place is the place where the student's interests are aligned with the school's resources and where he can best get the most out of that school's resources. As this kid's life will be a failure by going to any one of these schools. Please.

STFU. We will decide where this kid goes to school!

Wizard Oz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STFU. We will decide where this kid goes to
> school!


Fuck, yeah! Christopher Newport, here he comes!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Also keep in mind the respective histories of each school.

-UVA was founded in 1819 by Thomas Jefferson. The dude was so obsessed with his Cavs that he put it on his grave instead of "was a President". He loved liberal arts, law, business, minorities, etc. Therefore, UVA does.

-VT was founded in 1872, but only as tech and agriculture school (hence the rural Blacksburg location). It was as recent as 1970 that they became an official "state" school offering full programs for liberal arts degrees, a la UVA. Given the comparative timeframes, VT has done a damn good job in the Commonwealth.

-JMU was formed by a couple of hot chicks who wanted to get more hot chicks to come hang out.

Dead dude, farm school, hot chicks. You tell me which one you want to be at for four years.

Let's send this kid to NOVA! Punk ass bitch wouldn't last five minutes!

I can only speak from a sporting perspective, but I have never understood the hype over Tech. I've always been a Cavaliers fan myself. I remember one of the linebackers on my high school football team had a recruiting book about Tech, and the thing was thicker than a college course textbook (You could've beaten somebody to death with it lol).

As for schooling, Tech is just too damn large, whereas UVA is a renowned science institution. I'd pick UVA over Tech anyday of the week. Regarding William & Mary, it's in historic Williamsburg, with an obvious ton of history behind it, and it's often considered "The Dartmouth of the South" (Enough said).

JMU has a beautiful setting in the Shenandoah, and it's a good school from what I hear.

Overall, Virginia has extremely good Universities either way you look at it, so the choice is really up to the environment that you learn best in, and the subject field you're most interested in pursuing.


Oh yeah, about the SATS, I didn't even study for mine and I still scored higher than anyone I know. I'm still taking forever to get through college though, so I really don't think that SAT scores mean jack. When you get up into collegiate level courses, you can have all kinds of curveballs tossed at you. Nothing is guaranteed in terms of good professors or an easy experience, so all I can say is: Good Luck.


If I had to do everything all over again, I'd simply take the offer to attend Annapolis.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2010 03:27PM by ThePackLeader.

It depends on what the student wants to study. UVA and Virginia Tech have different strengths.

Read "The Price of Admission" by Daniel Golden. The Ivies are for the most part simply parking lots for the wealthy and well-connected, as well as legacy children. Getting into Yale/Brown/Duke can be accomplished by the children of influential politicians and businessmen as long as Papa gives the school a new art center, etc. Even if the grades and SAT scores are below those of the middle range, these schools will accept the children of alumni and/or powerful, wealthy people.

Brown is notorious for accepting children of celebrities.

These college debates pop up all the time. A college degree is a college degree. Kids out of UVA may get better opportunities than VCU, but in the long run where you got your degree really isn't that important.

Virginia has great universities and lots to choose from. There will always be great opportunities for any college graduate. Therefore I've never really seen the hype of choosing the perfect college.

Ahh....legacy admissions - I went to Duke - and my mother was unemployed with no income. And no, I am not a minority with an admissions preference. Like most of the people there, I had high SAT's and grades, which of course was the reason I was admitted.

Yes, someone who drops 10 mil (or more at a Harvard or Princeton) for a new library wing will get their kid in these top schools. But most people get in through the front door - with great grades and scores.

This should not be taken as a comment that the Ivies or Duke or Stanford are good values. They by and large are not, especially for Virginia residents. But don't imply that the schools in the main require anything but sky high credentials - they do.

Why not make a better comment, i.e., that all too many from these schools coast on their credentials? That has been my experience. In this vein, those here who cast a negative light on VTech are silly - VTech is one of the biggest suppliers of human capital in the area - they do a great job.

steve k2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These college debates pop up all the time. A
> college degree is a college degree. Kids out of
> UVA may get better opportunities than VCU, but in
> the long run where you got your degree really
> isn't that important.
>
> Virginia has great universities and lots to choose
> from. There will always be great opportunities
> for any college graduate. Therefore I've never
> really seen the hype of choosing the perfect
> college.

this.

I went to VT and got an undergrad and grad degree in Electrical Engineering... I work with plenty of grads from UVA... and some CS guys from the other schools mentioned... they're all sharp as hell... for the most part, it's what the students make of it and what they do when they get out... and less the reputation of the school...

After a couple years out of school and in the work force, the main benefit one can receive from having attended one of these schools is favoritism from alumni when they are out there trying to find a new job or promotion. Trust me, when we are interviewing Hokies, we know what they've been through and we can find out through the grapevine how good they are...

the dumbest post Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VTech is one of the biggest
> suppliers of human capital in the area - they do a
> great job.

I think you meant one of the biggest suppliers of heroin (not human capital) in the area. Look at all the distinguished Westfield grads that go/went there. Don't sell them short on how to sling some heroin or unload a .45.

I don't quite understand where solly bases his opinion on. At first I assumed he's a UVA alum, but then he later stated he graduated from a school up north.

I believe there was a time when UVA's prestige value was higher than Tech's. However, as time has passsed, Tech has closed the gap. There are many factors students weigh in determining which school to atend than simply perceived prestige value.

Perhaps he didn't want to go to a school that calls its students first years as opposed to freshmen, calls its campus the grounds, believes that Jefferson's ghost roams such grounds, and has kids wearing ties and dresses to football games.

And yes, full disclosure, I am a Hokie alum. Btw, what does graduate degrees have to do with where a kid chooses to go for undergrad?

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't quite understand where solly bases his
> opinion on. At first I assumed he's a UVA alum,
> but then he later stated he graduated from a
> school up north.
>
> I believe there was a time when UVA's prestige
> value was higher than Tech's. However, as time
> has passsed, Tech has closed the gap. There are
> many factors students weigh in determining which
> school to atend than simply perceived prestige
> value.
>
> Perhaps he didn't want to go to a school that
> calls its students first years as opposed to
> freshmen, calls its campus the grounds, believes
> that Jefferson's ghost roams such grounds, and has
> kids wearing ties and dresses to football games.
>
> And yes, full disclosure, I am a Hokie alum. Btw,
> what does graduate degrees have to do with where a
> kid chooses to go for undergrad?


Ahhh, words of wisdom from a castrated turkey. Tech has "closed the grounds" have they? If you mean that Techies need more than a pulse to be accepted these days, that's true. Both Tech and UVa are competitive these days, but I don't think there's much of a question that UVa has a better reputation by far, even if the gap has closed slightly. As far as you're insults hurled toward UVa, people who live in glass houses...know what I mean? Also, grad schools speak to the overall quality of the institution.

Death by lacrosse player or death by crazy asian.
You decide.

the dumbest post Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This may be the dumbest post I have come across.
> It revolves around an anonymous (or non-existent)
> "pretty smart" kid who received offers of
> matriculation at four of the Commonwealth's better
> schools, and then attempts to answer a query as to
> which one is "best". Here's the answer - the best
> place is the place where the student's interests
> are aligned with the school's resources and where
> he can best get the most out of that school's
> resources. As this kid's life will be a failure
> by going to any one of these schools. Please.

+1

It all depends on the student, and their degree goals. Each school is unique in its own way and has pros and cons.

William and Mary is easily the most difficult school in Virginia.

Getting in is difficult. Ditto for earning a degree.

Getting in UVa is tough. One students have matriculated, they usually take their degrees.

Virginia Tech is less selective in admissions. Earning a degree is no mean feat.

JMU appeals to students who seek to avoid the competitive nature of William and Mary, UVa, and Virginia Tech. The percentage of applicants accepted at JMU is usually lower than that at Virginia Tech.

School spirit at Virginia Tech is more intense than that at the other three.

If I had been admitted to William and Mary, I would have gone there.

UVa is a great place, but I never would have gone there.

Here's info learned/observed in recent recruiting trips for our now VT student:

UVA - Strong curriculum across board and good combination of arts and science orientation (you can get an engineering degree as a BS or BA). Wants lots of language (5 years recommended for engineering applicants) and lots of AP credits (recommended 24-48 credits for engineering applicants), but not as tough to get in as a male wanting to study engineering as VT (at least from our student's FFX County school stats). Campus pretty spread out in a town that caters to the university. Good sports with top teams in many disciplines. Very competitive for entrance based on grades/tests/other, but pretty liberal with drop/add after admittance. OK food service and housing. Picturesque and great graduate programs (especially law and medicine), but many grad students seemed to be from out of state that we met. Strong alumni networks to leverage post graduate.

VT - Strong curriculum in technical and agricultural/biologic sciences. Top design schools in country (architecture, landscape design). Good curriculum in business, history, communications, etc. (especially if you focus on tech side of discipline). Very focused degree paths (not a lot of room for free electives and need to start specializing freshman year). A lot of different variations of degrees (computer degrees in engineering, business, and computer science). Entrance decisions are focused on balance between courses/grades/tests/extra. Strict drop/add policies. Consistently top in country for food service (rated 1 or 2 in country by students last 3-4 years). Variety of housing options on and off campus. Most economical school to attend in VA (tuition and food/lodging costs). Community is devoted to school and very picturesque. Top transportation network included in price of attendance (cars are optional and often a nuisance - regardless of where you live). Top sports teams in all 3 "headline" sports (also means top marching band, cheer, trainer, and dance opportunities in state). A top recruiting location for tech firms and strong starter degree for postgraduate candidates (but most grads head straight to work with good salaries). Only school out of the four with more guys than girls. Emerging alumni networks starting to focus on more than sports.

W&M - Liberal arts curriculum with no need to focus on a particular major until Junior year. Majors are diverse, but kinda limited to a general topic in each discipline area (i.e., Accounting, Computer Science, Physics). Strong Music, Archeology, Pre-Law programs. Historic location that features the college. Housing limited to campus primarily and transportation is restrictive (cars not allowed until upper class and still discouraged). Student panelists at recruiting sessions were not real concerned with getting jobs after graduation (some were going Peace Corps or Teach America, others to grad school to teach or study law). Admissions based on balanced students with grades/other/tests important. More expensive to attend for 4 years than others. Prestigious alumni networks, but smaller than UVA and VT. More girls than others (in terms of ratios).

JMU - Our student wouldn't even get out of the car despite several stops in Harrisonburg. Up and coming school (sports and big ticket degree programs like engineering). Strong arts and education programs. Not recommended by school counselor as a top choice for engineering applicants staying in state.

NOT ON YOUR LIST, BUT OF NOTE: VCU is a strong candidate for medical engineering disciplines (a growing industry and one of the top recruiting locations). Campus is kinda scary on the edges, but has lots of character and that part of the town would be lost without it. We walked it with a relative and it's good for commuters, but can't touch the others in terms of a campus life and sport identity.

Goatshead Zuppen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IF you mean that Techies need more than a pulse to be
> accepted these days, that's true. Both Tech and
> UVa are competitive these days,

No shit.
3.6 GPA with 9 APs and lettered in MUN... waitlisted from VT.

I grajuated from UVA. It's a nice school, I licked it a lot there. We wear ties to football games that we always end up loosing to Virginia Teck!

What about VMI? That's a good school if you like uniforms and haircuts.

What about GMU, that's a pretty good school with a real good engineering program isn't it?

Didn't the founder of UVA graduate from W&M?

Recent Shopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JMU - Our student wouldn't even get out of the car
> despite several stops in Harrisonburg.

Are you serious? There are a ton of hot chicks at JMU. If he wouldn't get out of the car, it means he is sucking some cock at VT (not that it isn't out of the ordinary there). Food service options? Look at the polls, VT isn't even close to the ones you mentioned. You forgot to mention the fact that you stand a better chance of getting murdered at VT than any of the other options you listed.

I think he picked a great choice... MAYBE he didn't want to go to UVA.. You don't know his reasoning so I wouldn't judge the kid in anyway whatsoever. Virginia tech is a great school. I just don't know why the dude cares so much, it's not his kid but he acted like it was the end of the world.. "I tried being polite". Techs not impossible to get into and neither is UVA..

NoVa

To be honest I don't know about virginia schools anymore.

This year my son and several of his friends got into William and Mary and JMU but were denied or waitlisted from Mason.... Is there something I should be concerned about? I mean I know they went to the final four and all but really??

horribly wrong. william and mary is a great school, that wall street recruiters do visit. so actually visit a school before you bash it.

I heard several people got into JMU and not GMU which caught me off guard as well. Both have always been good schools, but Mason used to be no big deal to get into, with Madison being far more selective.

I remember when I got into JMU how many people were turned a way, and how many more people did get into GMU. GMU appeared to be a lot more selective this year and Madison appeared to lower their standards a lot. Could it be JMU is in a downfall? After witnessing the Springfest Riots I thought to myself, real classy kids...

I attended Madison for a year and it was a good experience. A lot of partying, girls, and for those that are interested great classrooms and instructors. I transferred to Mason for financial reasons, and was pleasently suprised that everything was on par with Madison. The only real negative, was less of a college experience with so many commuters and far more Indian professors that are hard to understand.

VT is easier to transfer into than to get accepted as in incoming freshman.

Also, VT has some sort of quota system for the counties in VA. So if your kid lives in NoVA, the competition to get into VT is much tougher than if your kid lives in Pittsylvania County (the largest county in VA).

NoVA kids often times feel entitled and deserving acceptance and rightly so when they are top students, but if VT went strictly on grades and performance, the rest of the state would hardly have a chance to get in to the school.

I just moved back to NOVA after years and I'm really surprised by how prominent GMU and VA Tech are. When I was growing up, W&M and UVa (and to a lesser extent, W&L) were by far the top schools in the state. Everything else was the same--nondescript state school with weak alumni and no reputation. Now, things have changed a lot. GMU is solid academically and I see more Hokie pride than ever before. It's really cool. Not saying those schools are even close to being on par with UVA and W&M (despite what a lot of posters think, they're absolutely not), but they are really solid institutions gaining a terrific rep.

I think it's there are 2 things going on with Mason - the first is that they've gathered enough clout to bring in students by the droves, so they're trying to decide how high they want to raise their standards (mostly, I'd assume, to combat overcrowding the dorms/campus.) The other thing going on is all of the construction they're doing - more students = more money for paying off Mr. Contractor, so it's in their favor to keep building dorms.

They've got a good engineering & IT pile of programs, a blossoming music & theater program and tons of multicultural programs going on. The other liberal arts stuff (English, comm, etc.) seem to take a backseat to the aforementioned focuses.

Does William & Mary offer engineering majors? Or is it strictly a liberal arts college?

GMU today reminds me of Virginia Tech when I went there.

For starters, the Commonwealth of Virginia has poured a ton of money into the various campuses.

I shouldn't reveal this, but GMU is now planning a medical school. It will probably be in Ashburn.

Virginia Tech just started its medical school several years ago. The first classes begin this fall.

GMU offers students who, for various reasons are unable to attend the top three schools in the Commonwealth. For what it is worth, I rate GMU over JMU.

GMU attracts students from across the world. I have met folks from California to Morocco.

Many GMU students are clueless. They are usually suburbanites with their peculiar mentality. That having been said, however, on every Friday night at the Johnson Center, one can find foreign students hunched over their computers.

They know why they are there and they are determined to fulfill their destiny.

GMU Hokie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I shouldn't reveal this, but GMU is now planning
> a medical school. It will probably be in
> Ashburn.





LMAO HAHAHA Shouldn't reveal it? Is it some state secret that only GMU Hokie and her(?) ilk should know about?

Blessed are the murderous.

engineering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does William & Mary offer engineering majors? Or
> is it strictly a liberal arts college?

http://tinyurl.com/24b4hhd

Any of Virginia's "Top Five" schools (VT, VA, GMU, JMU, W&M) would make an excellent choice.

UVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any of Virginia's "Top Five" schools (VT, VA, GMU,
> JMU, W&M) would make an excellent choice.

Agreed. Now we can put this to rest until next fall when the application process starts all over again.

don't forget ODU for engineering. not a bad school

jroc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> don't forget ODU for engineering. not a bad school<

If you plan to never graduate!

According to US News Ultimate College Directory based on reports required to be filed by each university with the U.S. Dept of Education ODU's 4 yr graduation rate = 17%.

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can only speak from a sporting perspective, but
> I have never understood the hype over Tech. I've
> always been a Cavaliers fan myself. I remember one
> of the linebackers on my high school football team
> had a recruiting book about Tech, and the thing
> was thicker than a college course textbook (You
> could've beaten somebody to death with it lol).
>
> As for schooling, Tech is just too damn large,
> whereas UVA is a renowned science institution. I'd
> pick UVA over Tech anyday of the week. Regarding
> William & Mary, it's in historic Williamsburg,
> with an obvious ton of history behind it, and it's
> often considered "The Dartmouth of the South"
> (Enough said).
>
> JMU has a beautiful setting in the Shenandoah, and
> it's a good school from what I hear.
>
> Overall, Virginia has extremely good Universities
> either way you look at it, so the choice is really
> up to the environment that you learn best in, and
> the subject field you're most interested in
> pursuing.
>
>
> Oh yeah, about the SATS, I didn't even study for
> mine and I still scored higher than anyone I know.
> I'm still taking forever to get through college
> though, so I really don't think that SAT scores
> mean jack. When you get up into collegiate level
> courses, you can have all kinds of curveballs
> tossed at you. Nothing is guaranteed in terms of
> good professors or an easy experience, so all I
> can say is: Good Luck.
>
>
> If I had to do everything all over again, I'd
> simply take the offer to attend Annapolis.


you are joking right?

solly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My next door neighbor's kid is pretty smart. He
> graduated near the top of his class and blew his
> SAT's out of the water. He decided he wanted to
> stay in-state and applied to the four school
> above. He got into all four and I think he got
> some subtantial cash from a couple. When his dad
> told me that he got accepted at all those schools,
> I assumed that he would go to UVa or W&M (really,
> I thouht it'd be UVa--he just seems to fit that
> mold). They're the best schools out of the four
> and they're just as inexpensive.
>
> Anyway, I run into his dad yesterday and ask if
> the kid's excited to go to UVa next fall. He tells
> me the kid chose Tech! I about fell out of my car.
> I can't believe anyone would choose Tech over UVa
> for any reason. I tried to be as polite as
> possible, but seriously, Tech...in Blacksburg?
> Maybe the kid got a full ride or maybe he wants to
> be an engineer...but, still, c'mon!

UVA grads may make more money but one thing is for sure, they will be a COCKSTRETCH for the rest of their sad little lives.

You guys have turned this into a horse race. This is getting really exciting I can't wait to see which school wins this horse race.

Va Tech Alumni here. I was also accepted into UVA. Honestly, it depends on what you want to study. I majored in engineering with a minor in computer science and I absolutely made the right decision going to Va Tech. However, if you want to study business UVA is where you want to go. JMU is the place to go if you want to be in education. Also, I would attend any of the three before W&M.

It is easier to get pot and moonshine in Montgomery County, VA.

kts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Va Tech Alumni here. I was also accepted into UVA.
> Honestly, it depends on what you want to study. I
> majored in engineering with a minor in computer
> science and I absolutely made the right decision
> going to Va Tech. However, if you want to study
> business UVA is where you want to go. JMU is the
> place to go if you want to be in education. Also,
> I would attend any of the three before W&M.


W&M is where all these fuckers go....



You would think chicks who blow trombones would know how to "blow the rusty trombone." You would be wrong.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Hi, I'm Rob(b). The thing these 4 schools have in common is that I could have gone to any one of them mostly because I'm scary smart, I know lots of facts about television in the '50's and '60's. BUT - I went to VCU. P.S. Duh

VTech graduates 43% of its freshman in 4 years.

JMU, UVA, W&M and UMW all graduate more than 70% in 4 years.

'nough said.

9 of Va.'s 13 public universities have graduation rates below the national average.

Va.'s public university system is a joke and an embarrassment.

But if you got into JMU, UVA, W&M or UMW, you won the lottery! Cash in your ticket in a hurry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 01:23AM by Thomas More.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VTech graduates 43% of its freshman in 4 years.
>
> JMU, UVA, W&M and UMW all graduate more than 70%
> in 4 years.
>
> 'nough said.

In VT's defense, the 4-year graduation rate tends to be lower at all engineering schools, since they tend to provide opportunities like full-semester internships and 5-year Bacheleors/Masters programs that prevent even the best students from finishing in 4 years.

I'M A FIVE-STAR MAN!!

I think the reason the 4 yr grad rate is lower at VT is because it is a big school and hard to get into classes you need. My son's friend is a freshman at VT and his math is an on-line class! He claims all the math is on-line.

Go Boise State! No one should ever let a loved one go to VT. The rumor is that they turn into hillbillies.

> > VTech graduates 43% of its freshman in 4 years.
> >
> > JMU, UVA, W&M and UMW all graduate more than
> 70%
> > in 4 years.
> >
> > 'nough said.
>
> In VT's defense, the 4-year graduation rate tends
> to be lower at all engineering schools, since they
> tend to provide opportunities like full-semester
> internships and 5-year Bacheleors/Masters programs
> that prevent even the best students from finishing
> in 4 years.


:iagree: Tech grad here, BSME '95

Very few of my classmates were on the 4 year plan or if they did, they carried a heavy workload and more likely than not, attended summer classes. The running joke at VT was that engineering was "pre-business" due to the high drop-out rate.

I'm not going to bash the other schools, each have highly desirable programs in their own right, but if you're planning on a technical degree, you shouldn't look anywhere else other than Blacksburg.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 12:42PM by Rambunctious.

Virginia Tech sucks! I got into UVA but had to leave after their entire football team raped me.

all the undergrad math at VT is online, not the real math.

for all the people out there who think VT sucks, that's because they can't make it through VT (that is if they can get accepted)

it's hard, damn hard!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2010 12:15AM by jRoc.

I am from Fairfax. As a senior in high school, I wanted to go to UVa or somewhere better. I certainly did not want to attend GMU. All of my peers put the school down claiming that there was nothing special about it. It was just 'the local school'.

Well, I didn't want to leave my family. So I attended GMU even though I was doubtful as to the quality of the education. Deciding to attend GMU was one of the best decisions that I have ever made. I have great professors, I take great classes, I work hard and I have learned a lot. GMU has a lot of free resources and, essentially, it has become a highly competitive school in recent years. It is no longer just 'the local school' to me.

I think that whoever said that the 'foreigners' work harder than the suburban kids at GMU is correct. That is generally true, at least. I would place myself with the foreigners, though. I value my education. I love GMU!

Hokies = Poopies. Hahahahaha!!!! Wahooowaaaaaa!

Excuse me but do you live in Blacksburg? If not, then you really shouldn't be knocking something you know nothing of.

im torn on going to mason. my main gripe is the fact IT is all under the vogenau (sp?) school and therefore IT ppl need to take higher level math that computer science students take. what for? two different paths. someone explain to me how i need discrete math when im doing hardware?

so now im looking around the country that has a good IT program, is in somewhat of a city and is listed as a CAE by the nsa.

There really isn't any contest on the best academic university in VA. It's W&M by a landslide. I got into UVA and W&M and actually attended both. UVA's A's are W&M B's and C's.

The College of William & Mary in Virginia (also known as The College, William & Mary, or W&M) is a public research university located in Williamsburg, Virginia, United States. Founded in 1693 by a royal charter (by a British letters patent) issued by King William III and Queen Mary II, it is the second-oldest institution of higher education in the United States after Harvard University. William & Mary's undergraduate program ranks #4 and #6 among American public universities according to the 2010 Forbes and 2011 U.S. News & World Report rankings, respectively.[10]

William & Mary educated U.S. Presidents Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, and John Tyler as well as other key figures important to the development of the nation, including U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall, Speaker of the House Henry Clay, and 16 signers of the Declaration of Independence. W&M founded the Phi Beta Kappa academic honor society in 1776 and was the first school of higher education in the United States to install an honor code of conduct for students. The establishment of graduate programs in law and medicine in 1779 make it one of the first universities in the United States. William & Mary is one of the eight original Public Ivies.

VT is a nice school but really. Other than engineering they are not even an honorable mention.
JMU? What the %@#! Harrisonburg..... They are know for having very hot girls, not smart girls. This is where the W&M and UVA men go to find their wives.

The truth hurts but people need to know.

Big Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JMU? What the %@#! Harrisonburg..... They are
> know for having very hot girls, not smart girls.
> This is where the W&M and UVA men go to find their
> wives.

Who knew? I thought Bill & Gary guys preferred the company of one another.

im going to GMU basically because its usually the only school in VA to be a center of academic excellence.

What about NVCC where the N stands for Knowledge somehow?

Jmu does not deserve to be listed in the same sentence as WandM or UVA. I worked as a secretary for the admissions office last year and simply quit because I was disgusted by this school's greed. In 2010 JMU received 1800 rising soph transfer apps, they accepted 10 total of those 1800. However on their schools transfer web page it is noted that the 600 spots available for transfer are split between rising soph, jr, and sr. It also states that students need a competitive collegiate gpa to recieve admitance. Their definition of a competitive gpa is a "3.0" yet the director of admissions did not consider one application with a gpa lower than "3.8." It sure seems to be working out for jmu since of those 1800 apps, 10 of them were admitted and im sure plenty of those students had lower than a 3.8 gpa. At 50$ an app they made 90k total off of students whom were first year transfers, many of which had no legitimaye shot of getting in. I suppose it just goes to the Bridgeforth stadium renovations.. Sorry to rag on my ex employer but enough is enough. Plenty of those students were from CC who were working fulltime as well and deserve that 50$ back. JMU just tries to make themselves seem prestigious by raising their accepted average gpa/SAT scores each year. Their has been an increase in each score every year since 2001 and eventually kids will be getting into UVA (#2 public U in USA ranked by forbes) and being waitlisted by JMU. By the way I'm JMU alumni class of 2008.

JMU is by far the superior school. At least the lacrosse players don't brutally murder the coeds.

Anyone who says JMU, GMU, Tech or W&M is better than UVA is a joke. UVA is arguably the best state school in the country and among the best of all schools in the country. Its law, med and business schools are also highly ranked, especially law. It's also gorgeous there and has an amazing history as well.

I have no connection to any of these schools. Just saying what people objectively think.

Are you serious? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jmu does not deserve to be listed in the same
> sentence as WandM or UVA. I worked as a secretary
> for the admissions office last year and simply
> quit because I was disgusted by this school's
> greed. In 2010 JMU received 1800 rising soph
> transfer apps, they accepted 10 total of those
> 1800. However on their schools transfer web page
> it is noted that the 600 spots available for
> transfer are split between rising soph, jr, and
> sr. It also states that students need a
> competitive collegiate gpa to recieve admitance.
> Their definition of a competitive gpa is a "3.0"
> yet the director of admissions did not consider
> one application with a gpa lower than "3.8." It
> sure seems to be working out for jmu since of
> those 1800 apps, 10 of them were admitted and im
> sure plenty of those students had lower than a 3.8
> gpa. At 50$ an app they made 90k total off of
> students whom were first year transfers, many of
> which had no legitimaye shot of getting in. I
> suppose it just goes to the Bridgeforth stadium
> renovations.. Sorry to rag on my ex employer but
> enough is enough. Plenty of those students were
> from CC who were working fulltime as well and
> deserve that 50$ back. JMU just tries to make
> themselves seem prestigious by raising their
> accepted average gpa/SAT scores each year. Their
> has been an increase in each score every year
> since 2001 and eventually kids will be getting
> into UVA (#2 public U in USA ranked by forbes) and
> being waitlisted by JMU. By the way I'm JMU alumni
> class of 2008.


You want some cheese with that whine? JMU is no different than any other school that is receiving way more applications than they have slots for students. Last year's freshman class had an AVERAGE gpa of 3.88. That's still a little lower than Tech (3.98), UVA (over 4), and W&M (over 4).

Are you serious? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jmu does not deserve to be listed in the same
> sentence as WandM or UVA. I worked as a secretary
> for the admissions office last year and simply
> quit because I was disgusted by this school's
> greed. In 2010 JMU received 1800 rising soph
> transfer apps, they accepted 10 total of those
> 1800. However on their schools transfer web page
> it is noted that the 600 spots available for
> transfer are split between rising soph, jr, and
> sr. It also states that students need a
> competitive collegiate gpa to recieve admitance.
> Their definition of a competitive gpa is a "3.0"
> yet the director of admissions did not consider
> one application with a gpa lower than "3.8." It
> sure seems to be working out for jmu since of
> those 1800 apps, 10 of them were admitted and im
> sure plenty of those students had lower than a 3.8
> gpa. At 50$ an app they made 90k total off of
> students whom were first year transfers, many of
> which had no legitimaye shot of getting in. I
> suppose it just goes to the Bridgeforth stadium
> renovations.. Sorry to rag on my ex employer but
> enough is enough. Plenty of those students were
> from CC who were working fulltime as well and
> deserve that 50$ back. JMU just tries to make
> themselves seem prestigious by raising their
> accepted average gpa/SAT scores each year. Their
> has been an increase in each score every year
> since 2001 and eventually kids will be getting
> into UVA (#2 public U in USA ranked by forbes) and
> being waitlisted by JMU. By the way I'm JMU alumni
> class of 2008.

WOW, a secretary. Your parents must be proud. You are an alumnus or alumna, unless you are a siamese twin.

Sacromanti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone who says JMU, GMU, Tech or W&M is better
> than UVA is a joke. UVA is arguably the best state
> school in the country and among the best of all
> schools in the country. Its law, med and business
> schools are also highly ranked, especially law.
> It's also gorgeous there and has an amazing
> history as well.
>
> I have no connection to any of these schools. Just
> saying what people objectively think.

UVA is top in the state overall, but W&M is more academically elite by a long shot. Graduating summa cum laude from there speaks volumes to academic ability. But yes, UVa is tops at "best education for your dollar" according to Princeton Review.