White's Ferry closed -- dispute with wealthy owner of farm on Virginia side-- Maryland owns river to opposite bank, but small strip of land where you board the ferry is owned by the family.

It should be shut down for being racist. It should be called Blacks ferry.

Someone coughed in their car , I pitched a bitch

Because the land owner on the Virginia pitched a bitch. Now Va and Md are looking at building a bridge at that location.

The land owner hated the Ferry - Wait till the bridge is built.

Yep. Wealthy landowners trying to extract large sums from small, historic ferry now gonna get their land seized by Democrats through eminent domain.

That really sucks. This was a great shortcut. Hopefully the asshole who sued the ferry goes out of business due to bad publicity

I’m a history nerd, and was upset to hear this. But sometimes you have to look T another perspective...

For all you 'pitchfork people', you should definitely read this. The operators of the ferry are clearly in the wrong.

From Rockland’s Facebook page:
In 1871, Loudoun County condemned a landing at Rockland Farm of 1 perch by 16 perches for a Ferry landing called Conrad’s Ferry. At that time there were many ferries that crossed the Potomac River between Virginia and Maryland such as Edward’s Ferry and Sphinx Ferry. Unfortunately, there are no records that show where the condemnation for Conrad’s ferry occurred. In 1947, Elijah White wanted to reopen Conrad’s Ferry under the name White’s Ferry after a terrible flood which had closed Conrad’s ferry for a long time. They sent a letter to Rockland Farm acknowledging that they had no right to use Rockland’s property for the landing and asked the owners of Rockland Farm, for an agreement. In 1952, Elizabeth Rust Brown and Stanley Noel Brown, owners of Rockland Farm entered into a licensing agreement with White’s Ferry for $5.00 per year for the use of a landing at Rockland Farm so long as the ferry landing was never changed or enlarged under its current configuration. Since that time, White’s Ferry evolved from being a small operation of a few cars per day to a major commuter route.
Sixteen years ago, on July 4th weekend, White’s Ferry (without prior notification or permission from Rockland and without obtaining any government permits) unlawfully enlarged the ferry landing and built structures on Rockland. So doing violated a license agreement between White’s Ferry and Rockland that had been in place for more than half a century. Since then Rockland has been attempting to work out some fair arrangement with the owners of White’s Ferry. In response, all White’s Ferry has done is to delay, delay, delay, all the while making millions of dollars off the use of Rockland. Finally, after being stonewalled time and again by White’s Ferry, Rockland had no choice but to file suit on December 2, 2009. After many attempts to settle the case out of court which delayed the trial by years, the suit was decided in Rockland’s favor on November 23rd, 2020. The court definitively ruled that the owners of White’s Ferry had been and are trespassing and are no longer able to make use of Rockland without Rockland’s permission.
Since that decision over four weeks ago, Rockland Farm has made numerous attempts to reach White’s Ferry in order to negotiate a fair and equitable solution that will keep the ferry running. Rockland has offered to purchase White’s ferry, to be paid rent for its land, and to consider other arrangements that will keep the ferry running. On multiple occasions, White’s Ferry told Rockland Farm that it would get back to Rockland on certain dates, but missed their own deadlines. Multiple attempts to reach White’s Ferry have gone unanswered. All the while White’s Ferry continued, unjustly and now in violation of a court ruling, to make money off of the use of Rockland.
Rockland Farm knows that it is in everyone’s best interest to keep the ferry running and sent White’s Ferry an interim licensing agreement so that the ferry operation could continue without interruption until a deal between the two parties could be negotiated. Rockland Farm received no response from White’s Ferry. Having not gotten a response from White’s Ferry, Rockland Farm wrote to them last Wednesday letting them know that if Rockland did not hear back from them by noon on Monday, it would send a final notice of entry of Order to the court. Instead of engaging with Rockland Farm to negotiate a fair and equitable arrangement to keep the ferry running, the response by White’s Ferry was to close the ferry and walk away from the business.

Long read, but worth it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m a history nerd, and was upset to hear this.
> But sometimes you have to look T another
> perspective...
>
> For all you 'pitchfork people', you should
> definitely read this. The operators of the ferry
> are clearly in the wrong.
>

> Sixteen years ago, on July 4th weekend, White’s
> Ferry (without prior notification or permission
> from Rockland and without obtaining any government
> permits) unlawfully enlarged the ferry landing and
> built structures on Rockland.

The construction was to replace wooden a dock that were damaged by Hurricane Isabel in 2003. The replacement is a modern concrete dock.

It is quite clear Rockland Farm was attempting take over the ferry service, and for their trouble a bridge will be built on this site of the defunct ferry.

Fuck Rockland Farm.

What your saying is Whites Ferry was owned by Democrats in the wrong again and the farm was owned by Republicans in the right as usual . So did they rename the Gen Jubal Early yet ?? Their late by their own standards

Do you see what Im saying

Once JOES in and Kamals reparations bill goes thru to Blacks ferry Bridge

A Whole Lot Of BS To Read Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What your saying is Whites Ferry was owned by
> Democrats in the wrong again and the farm was
> owned by Republicans in the right as usual . So
> did they rename the Gen Jubal Early yet ?? Their
> late by their own standards
>
> Do you see what Im saying

I don’t see what you’re saying as you appear to be functionally illiterate.

Nothing fool but a 50 mile ride around Whites Ferry . Happy for pitching that bitch about the guy coughing in his car With the window up

Thank you for the information Long read, but worth it. It is helpful for someone who used the ferry a few times over the decades to have the whole story. Man your Pitchforks, it may not seem to be much to you, but it is clearly something that they should have run by the property owner. It is basic property law.

You folks don't really know much about what the family running the ferry wants to do these days. Best to get the whole story before you Karens get all wrapped around the axle about some bullshit you don't know about.

To now just find out its closed forever due to a simple property dispute. I thought international terrorists did it and it would not be open till Tuesday morning. How long will it take to build the new Rockland Farms bridge and how many dollars will their toll be over the old Whites Ferry

Sounds like a pissing contest on the banks of the Potomac River, and both contestants lost.

Too bad.

What A Relief ! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To now just find out its closed forever due to a
> simple property dispute. I thought international
> terrorists did it and it would not be open till
> Tuesday morning. How long will it take to build
> the new Rockland Farms bridge and how many dollars
> will their toll be over the old Whites Ferry


If capitalism works as it should, then the ferry will operate again under different ownership (as it has changed hands MANY times), but with the new owners paying rent for the land, as the current operators have failed to do.

It’s this whole fucking cancel culture that’s all-or-nothing that has to stop. White’s Ferry has ceased operation for years at a time over during its history. But it closes at noon on a Monday and people are blaming the heavy-handed rich farm owners within hours - without looking at the facts?

.
Attachments:

I'm gonna start Nigger's ferry just upriver.

Its the new "Trump Rockland Farms Bridge" just to piss off those bitch pissers

Joe Biden crossed there this afternoon in his boxer shorts while eating ice cream.

When asked why he did this by the press, his answer was short: “c’mon man!”

Jubal Early Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You folks don't really know much about what the
> family running the ferry wants to do these days.
> Best to get the whole story before you Karens get
> all wrapped around the axle about some bullshit
> you don't know about.


Okay prick. Enlighten us with your insider knowledge.

Why don't the people operating the Whites Only Ferry just buy some property on the VA side and build a landing?

MLK Ferry

Loudoun Board of Supervisors shut down the ferry. However it came to their desk, they ultimately had the final decision. Therefore it is the fault of all Loudoun County residents for electing the self-serving, northern transplant supervisors and for not applying enough pressure on them to do the right thing.

Western Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jubal Early Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You folks don't really know much about what the
> > family running the ferry wants to do these days.
>
> > Best to get the whole story before you Karens
> get
> > all wrapped around the axle about some bullshit
> > you don't know about.
>
>
> Okay prick. Enlighten us with your insider
> knowledge.


You’re the one who doesn’t know! The family is devastated by the decision.

Bit of perspective Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What A Relief ! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To now just find out its closed forever due to
> a
> > simple property dispute. I thought
> international
> > terrorists did it and it would not be open till
> > Tuesday morning. How long will it take to
> build
> > the new Rockland Farms bridge and how many
> dollars
> > will their toll be over the old Whites Ferry
>
>
> If capitalism works as it should, then the ferry
> will operate again under different ownership (as
> it has changed hands MANY times), but with the new
> owners paying rent for the land, as the current
> operators have failed to do.
>
> It’s this whole fucking cancel culture that’s
> all-or-nothing that has to stop. White’s Ferry
> has ceased operation for years at a time over
> during its history. But it closes at noon on a
> Monday and people are blaming the heavy-handed
> rich farm owners within hours - without looking at
> the facts?


Those "rich farm owners" is a huge libtard bitch.

The farm says they have tried since 2009 to work something out with the ferry folks and the family won't respond to them. Is that true? The court order was issued in November and the farm says they have been trying to reach out to the ferry family to cut a deal to keep it running for the last month but they won't respond. Is that true? Why won't the people running the ferry comment on any of this or talk to the libtard bitch that owns the property?

Bit of perspective Wrote:

> If capitalism works as it should, then the ferry
> will operate again under different ownership (as
> it has changed hands MANY times), but with the new
> owners paying rent for the land, as the current
> operators have failed to do.
>
> It’s this whole fucking cancel culture that’s
> all-or-nothing that has to stop. White’s Ferry
> has ceased operation for years at a time over
> during its history. But it closes at noon on a
> Monday and people are blaming the heavy-handed
> rich farm owners within hours - without looking at
> the facts?


The facts aren't fully known. The ferry folks have been silent the entire time. There are some interesting bits in the court docs and filings in terms of what the farm is asking for. Based on number of factors, it's possible the farm is cash poor/land rich.

As wonderful as capitalism is, it may not solve this problem in this spot. The primary issue is finding a MD property owner and a VA property owner right across the river from each other that want to build/maintain a crossing. White's Ferry only did about 500-600 cars a day so the volume wasn't huge even before the pandemic - not a lot of cash there even with a decent toll.

These are two private property owners.

It looks like the farm tried lots of stuff but the White family never budged. It's the old saying about getting part of something or all of nothing. Today they are getting all of nothing.

My theory:

Rockland Farms wants to subdivide and sell McMansion riverside lots for big bucks.

Their problem is that the ferry access road runs from 15 to the river on the downstream side of the field, then turns left and runs upriver along the top of the river bank until a point upstream of the ferry landing, where it does a 180 and goes down to the landing.

This means that these McMansion lots would have the ferry access road between them and the river. They need to to get rid of the ferry to make their real estate killing.

Another point.

Both Maryland and Virginia have made noises about improving Potomac river crossings between Point of Rocks and the Legion bridge.

Maryland would like to have a four lane crossing at Point of Rocks, with 15 upgraded to four lanes between Leesburg and Frederick. For their part much of 15 on the Maryland side is either four lanes or has an obvious four lane right of way already constructed. The folks along 15 in Virginia (Luckets etc.) are decidedly adverse to this idea so it ain't gonna happen.

Virginia would like to extend 28 across the Potomac to connect to 28 on the Maryland side. This would require new and expanded roads on the Maryland side. The affected Marylanders feel the same way as the Lucketeers feel about the upgrade 15 plan, so that isn't happening.

A four lane bridge at White's Ferry would have a Virginia end practically at Leesburg, avoiding annoying the Lucketeers. The Maryland side is more problematic. The roads all exist, but upgrading them would annoy the locals on that side of the river. This option may be most likely to make happen.

My third thought is amazement that the ferry doesn't have a really good adverse possession or right of way claim after operating as long as they have.

VA has approved (and funded) 4 lanes from Leesburg town up to around Selma.

The McMansion idea won't work. There's no water/sewer along Rt 15 north of Leesburg in any material form. Short answer - the geology is all fucked up. Loudoun had to pony up millions to get clean water to the only two established neighborhoods there so any sizeable development is off the table. They could do a few places with well and septic. The county won't approve any more PUD stuff in that region of Loudoun until someone magically solves the water issue.

Loudoun and MD politicians will probably get involved and try to broker some kind of deal between the parties. The giant question is...what's up with the ferry people and why aren't they talking?

Where is Selma? I'm guessing an informal name -- the only Selma google maps knows about in Virginia is down near Clifton Forge.

My thought was that they would go with a relatively few large lots. I don't know what the perc test or well situation is in that area. It sounds like you have better information than I do.

>My third thought is amazement that the ferry doesn't have a really good adverse possession or right of way claim after operating as long as they have.

In my opinion they do but has it been 16 years , but since that roure has been open so long it is a long established precedent that a ferry crossing at the site to the area roads the ferry has long served must be provided there , until such funds can be approved to build the new Donald J Trump Bridge.

The ferry must be allowed to carry on by the courts for the greater publics transportation need in the interim

Cheerio ! The partys involved should quickly solve their dispute over hot battered fried fish , hot chips and ice cold Fanta to cool their jets and bongs at Arthur Treachers even if they must travel to Ohio to do that. After such a feast their minds , may hopefully clear

Answering my own question, "Selma" in this case is a road, not a place: Selma Ln.

Seems an odd place to stop, but seeming odd to Radon's Daughter is no never mind to VDOT.

>The McMansion idea won't work. There's no water/sewer along Rt 15 north of Leesburg in any material form.

Good reason that area where the soil is thin and often rocky coming up to the Appalachian Mountains has not been developed beyond tracts with septic and wells and shall not be developed further unless such work commences upon April Fools day only as a joke by the Loudoun BOS who seem to be the practical jokers in this ferry matter .

I am your humble servant Sir Harry Haddock , good day and never forget those Arthur Treachers

Precisely Old Chap Wrote:
------------------------
>
> I am your humble servant Sir Harry Haddock , good
> day and never forget those Arthur Treachers


And a good day to you, Sir!

Radon's Daughter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Answering my own question, "Selma" in this case is
> a road, not a place: Selma Ln.
>
> Seems an odd place to stop, but seeming odd to
> Radon's Daughter is no never mind to VDOT.

If you are looking at a map of Rt15 N of Leesburg, take a left on Montresor Rd. Selma Estates is about the first mile and a half along Montresor and attached streets.

https://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/us/selma-estates

Thirty-odd posts here yet nobody in Fairfax County gives a shit or uses this ferry.

Post this crap elsewhere.

Speak for yourself. Its the escape route from Murderland To Violenceland which was Virginia but Democrats have taken it over with welfare baits for votes and pure stupid hate here in NOVA . Both places are filled with liberal retards who hate having any rights but they sure do love violent criminals all the way to their graves with knives in their backs placed by their criminal pets

Another Fairfax County Resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thirty-odd posts here yet nobody in Fairfax County
> gives a shit or uses this ferry.
>
> Post this crap elsewhere.


Or alternatively you can just skip by the thread and shut the fuck up

Caller of BS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another Fairfax County Resident Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thirty-odd posts here yet nobody in Fairfax
> County
> > gives a shit or uses this ferry.
> >
> > Post this crap elsewhere.
>
>
> Or alternatively you can just skip by the thread
> and shut the fuck up


You speak the truth.

I live in Fairfax County and I've used it. It's great for crossing over to the C&O Canal by bike. That way I can ride there from Fairfax county. It's terrible trying to cross the river at Point of Rocks on a bike, and you can't do it on the Beltway.

It was racist. It should be permanently closed and all the signs removed as they are very hurtful. Also the word ferry is offensive to LGBTQP's.

As a new name is prefered by you , how about Top & Bottom Bridge and we'll name something else for the great US president Donald J Trump as we forget the ferry

Any local updates for re-opening White's Ferry?

VA-MD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any local updates for re-opening White's Ferry?


Kuhn has exhausted all options with the VA landowner in terms of working out a deal to reopen. Everything moves to court now where he will try to get some eminent domain help.

Libby Devlin and Peter Brown are being totally unreasonable. I can't find any information on the business they were attempting to do on using the property as a wedding venue. Last time we were down that way we discovered that the corn fields we used to dove hunt in, with permission from the senior Mr. Brown, had been planted as a tree farm. Ms Devlin and Mr Brown are just being greedy. Wouldn't it be funny if the property were taken and a bridge was build.

How are the property owners being greedy? It’s their land and they can do with it what they wish.

Jacob L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How are the property owners being greedy? It’s
> their land and they can do with it what they wish.


I think the "greedy" assertion is certainly subjective. Kuhn offered maybe 50 cents a car - maybe $1 I dunno...lots of numbers got tossed around. If you do the math, it's real money especially given they are getting ZERO right now. But going to court could net them nothing permanently if they lose and the court takes a small section of their property under eminent domain.

So it's a gamble on their part. You could say it's greedy to want more, but they risk getting nothing vs. a small pile every year for a very long time - as opposed to maybe a slightly larger pile. Or Kuhn just says fuck it and sells/donates the property or puts it into conservatorship.

Maybe the money's not worth it to them and they don't want all the traffic through their property. Certainly their choice.

Doubt that any court in VA is going to rule against that. Because it's more convenient than alternate routes for what's a relatively few people who use it isn't really a clear public interest making it necessary. Not like it's an island and that's the only way in and out.

Jacob L Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How are the property owners being greedy? It’s
> their land and they can do with it what they wish.


Cash me outside. I do what I want.