My son is a rising 8th grader at a Fairfax middle school. Any recommendations as to whether he should start taking a foreign language elective in 8th grade or 9th grade? I guess he should start in 8th grade if he wants to reach the AP level by 12th grade. Please share your experiences.

Thanks

Here we go with the AP shit again... Get your kid exposed to foreign language as early as possible. That's really all I got.

I agree



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2010 12:37PM by bdimag.

The quality of foreign language teachers varies a lot in FFX, particularly at the HS level. Some teachers are vicious and others are flat-out incompetent, but they never get fired. Check out the HS teachers first; this can make a big difference on which language your kids should take.

There should be no debate about which language your child should take - spanish will be the most useful in every situation. I took another language in HS and have never, ever had to use it. With spanish you can order a Big Mac meal with ease and not have to worry about that pesky language barrier.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

im sure spanish looks better on your resume than .. oh i dont know FRENCH or sign language... or even german

Spanish will help out a lot more. I took latin. It did nothing for me.

Ask other parents in your school pyramid. Some middle school FL teachers are great, others are awful and can ruin your child's chances for success in high school. For example, the bad ones can poorly equip a student for the rigors of the next level in high school and set them up for sure failure.
The better colleges want to see at least 4 years of a foreign language and adding an AP during your senior year is great. Shows dedication. In all cases, having a foreign language will make your child more marketable to colleges and also in a tough job market.

Spanish if you want to teach, be a policeman or work in fast food or construction
Mandarin (maybe Japanese or Korean) if you want to into business. Maybe Hindi.
Arabic or Farsi if you want to be in the military, CIA, State Department etc

You forgot about communicating with your house cleaners - Spanish

Have your kid work a summer with any painter or yard service in Fairfax County. He'll be speaking Spanish in no time.

Foreign Language teachers SUCK. Worst teachers ever. Least qualified, least competent.

My Spanish teacher in HS was fluent in Chinese and lived in China for 5 years...good thing, too, because I was worried there for a minute that she might not have been qualified to teach a foreign language!

Start everything you can in eighth grade. Regular eighth grade classes are really just repeat of everything they've already had for the most part. Take algebra if you can too.

Try an English class, that is pretty much a foreign language in Fairfax anymore.

All of us, kids and adults, should be studying Chinese. Sooner or later, those motherfuckers are going to repo this stinkin' country. When they quit loaning us money, or want the trillions they've already loaned us back, it's all over.

Those who speak Chinese will be in better shape under Chinese rule.

My son started Spanish in 8th and was thinking after 3 years, he'd have room in his schedule for more electives junior and senior year. After 3 years, he decided to take Spanish 4 and did well (which insured he wouldn't have to retake a language in college, too).

We went to the career center counselor during his junior year of HS to figure out the best course load for him his senior year in order to be competitive for some target schools during admissions. He wanted to take 2-3 more AP courses his senior year, but the counselor pulled acceptance stats for his FCPS school and advised that he really needed to take 5 AP courses his senior year to be competitive for UVA and Ivys. One of the APs she recommended was AP Spanish (which is way overkill for most schools), but she told him that UVA valued 5 years of a language more than a computer science elective (even AP) for engineering applicants!

After almost puking over how many AP courses his counselor recommended, he decided he really wasn't that interested in UVA or engineering and took the 3 AP courses that he was interested in (Calc B/C, Poli Sci, and English). He already had 3 AP credits prior to senior year and graduated with 6 AP credits. He never did apply to UVA or the Ivys (was recruited by all of them) and got into his top 2 school choices easily (Va Tech and Penn State).

He is now a sophomore during his first year at Va Tech. Even though his 6 AP credits may be seen as a "light" course load for UVA and other highly competitive "arts" schools, it served him well for his targeted "tech" schools. It ends up that he only had to take a semester of college Calc and a year of science to fulfill his freshman course requirements in the College of Business at VT and has already met a year of sophomore credits for history. Also, at VT, 3 years of a single language in HS meets the foreign language requirements for graduation from most of its colleges (FCPS requires 3 years of 1 language OR 2 years of 2 different languages for its advanced diploma).

Question for you is what is your student targeting for post HS? If it's UVA, start any language now and be prepared to not stop for all 5 years (regardless of intended major). I never imagined that this would be highly recommended for our son, but he could have done it (if he really wanted). If your student is targeting a more technical school like Va Tech, you can put it off until 9th grade, but try to get 3 years with one language to eliminate the need for college courses later. Only other consideration I see with putting it off is that 8th grade electives usually don't show up in terms of college transcripts, but junior and senior electives do go on the transcript and can help the final GPA.

Spanish 4 was a reiteration of Spanish 3. Waste of time. Go straight to AP Span Lang, then Lit.

aodigieaaeinvi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask other parents in your school pyramid. Some
> middle school FL teachers are great, others are
> awful and can ruin your child's chances for
> success in high school. For example, the bad ones
> can poorly equip a student for the rigors of the
> next level in high school and set them up for sure
> failure.
>

For this reason do Not Take Latin at Rachel Carson

As a father of 4 graduates of FCPS who are in or have graduated from college, it is my experience that 8th grade courses that are HS level, like Algebra I and a first year foreign language, will show on the transcript sent to colleges and count toward the reported GPA.

If you're at an IB school, you have to have 5 years of a foreign language to get the IB diploma.

Latin was a good compensation for the near total failure of FCPS High School English classes to teach grammar.

Unfortunately, one of my children had 5 Spanish II teachers in one year. Spanish III was a disaster.

Just remember that guidance counselors primary duty is filling up classes so that teachers have a full course load and don't have to split time between several high schools. I've had some of them putting my kid in a class that neither the kid nor I selected to fill up a class and a teacher's dance card. Getting out became a nightmare.

Hopefully, your child has already taken keyboarding/basic computing so that they can touch type. If not, 8th grade is the time to acquire this elementary skill. You don't want this course on a high school transcript.

Unless one is going into a diplomatic career, or the like, Spanish, Mandarin, Cantonese or Hindi make the most sense for the next generation, just as Japanese and Russian made sense for baby boomers. Everyone in Europe speaks English. Unless a kid is going to major in Italian history or the like, the only reason to take a European language is snob appeal.

I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for every FFX kid to take accounting and business law/business management. Almost every adult will be in an organization where an understanding of these basics will be essential, even if it's getting a budget approved by a government agency. I encounter too many folks in government agencies and the private sector whose eyes glaze over when looking at a financial statement, statement of accounts or balance sheet.These classes can be taken senior year.

Except for the Ivies and Ivy wanna bees, 3 years of science, 3 years of foreign language and 3 years of math are enough.

Buy U.S. News Ultimate College Directory. Each college's high school course requirements and preferences are listed under Admission Facts and Figures/admission requirements. Also, unless you don't mind paying 6 years tuition for a 4 year degree, check the graduation rates for the college you're considering at the bottom of the Academics section.

Start visiting colleges after freshman year. You only need to spend 20 minutes per campus. Skip the multi-hour admissions tour. Studies show kids make up their mind in 20 minutes. The rest of the time just prevents you from visiting competing colleges. Save the full tour until after the admit/reject decision has been received and the deposit decision is upon you. If your kid is thinking of a school north of here visit in over a winter break. Visiting during summer or fall can be deceiving. You don't have to go too far north to find places were the flowering trees don't bloom until after finals. Winters can feel long to a kids from around here.

Except for scientists and engineers, I don't know anyone who uses trig after high school but statistical analysis (senior year 2nd semester @ most highs schools) is used during adulthood.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2010 10:06PM by Thomas More.

AP Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My son started Spanish in 8th and was thinking
> after 3 years, he'd have room in his schedule for
> more electives junior and senior year. After 3
> years, he decided to take Spanish 4 and did well
> (which insured he wouldn't have to retake a
> language in college, too).
>
> We went to the career center counselor during his
> junior year of HS to figure out the best course
> load for him his senior year in order to be
> competitive for some target schools during
> admissions. He wanted to take 2-3 more AP courses
> his senior year, but the counselor pulled
> acceptance stats for his FCPS school and advised
> that he really needed to take 5 AP courses his
> senior year to be competitive for UVA and Ivys.
> One of the APs she recommended was AP Spanish
> (which is way overkill for most schools), but she
> told him that UVA valued 5 years of a language
> more than a computer science elective (even AP)
> for engineering applicants!
>
> After almost puking over how many AP courses his
> counselor recommended, he decided he really wasn't
> that interested in UVA or engineering and took the
> 3 AP courses that he was interested in (Calc B/C,
> Poli Sci, and English). He already had 3 AP
> credits prior to senior year and graduated with 6
> AP credits. He never did apply to UVA or the Ivys
> (was recruited by all of them) and got into his
> top 2 school choices easily (Va Tech and Penn
> State).
>
> He is now a sophomore during his first year at Va
> Tech. Even though his 6 AP credits may be seen as
> a "light" course load for UVA and other highly
> competitive "arts" schools, it served him well for
> his targeted "tech" schools. It ends up that he
> only had to take a semester of college Calc and a
> year of science to fulfill his freshman course
> requirements in the College of Business at VT and
> has already met a year of sophomore credits for
> history. Also, at VT, 3 years of a single
> language in HS meets the foreign language
> requirements for graduation from most of its
> colleges (FCPS requires 3 years of 1 language OR 2
> years of 2 different languages for its advanced
> diploma).
>
> Question for you is what is your student targeting
> for post HS? If it's UVA, start any language now
> and be prepared to not stop for all 5 years
> (regardless of intended major). I never imagined
> that this would be highly recommended for our son,
> but he could have done it (if he really wanted).
> If your student is targeting a more technical
> school like Va Tech, you can put it off until 9th
> grade, but try to get 3 years with one language to
> eliminate the need for college courses later.
> Only other consideration I see with putting it off
> is that 8th grade electives usually don't show up
> in terms of college transcripts, but junior and
> senior electives do go on the transcript and can
> help the final GPA.

Not always true. My daughter was accepted at UVA and Carnegie Mellon with only 3 years of Spanish.

My heir apparent wanted French in 8th grade. He had some previous exposure - thought it would be easy and it was. Cafe au lait and such. Come 9th grade, French Deaux - the very rigid teacher expected him to actually read it, write it and speak it. He had to WORK HARD to pull his C- to a final B, which meant a tutor at $35/hour cash only. He switched to Spanish the next year, did Spanish I and II like a breeze, thus getting his 4 language credits.

The 2nd son took Spanish all the way - but it was a rocky ride. Several long term subs - the teacher told us on back to school night she frequently went to Argentina to visit her family - and she did. He only went through to Spanishlll but he still made it into the college of his choice.

If I had to live my life over, I would take Latin at least one year before any European language.

Take foreign language classes early. The earlier you're done with them and get them over with, the better. Not to mention it gives you more options down the line. Keep in mind that most foreign language teachers are hired based on their credentials for being able to speak a foreign language, not any sort of teaching ability. Accordingly, they run the gambit from completely useless (which cripples your ability to do well in future classes) to relentlessly difficult and obtuse (which cripples your ability to do well in your current class).

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for
> every FFX kid to take accounting and business
> law/business management.

Honestly, I think that finance and economics are more useful for most people, and tend to be more urgent as well. You don't want to be 35 when you first learn the importance of investing lots of money in the stock market and putting it in an IRA.

> Honestly, I think that finance and economics are more useful for most people, and tend to be more urgent as well. You don't want to be 35 when you first learn the importance of investing lots of money in the stock market and putting it in an IRA.<

Sigh, the power of compounding interest, be still my heart!

I'd agree if either class was offered by FCPS dependably. Occasionally, I've seen economics offered. Never finance.

Accounting and business law/business management are offered almost every year at every FPCS high school.

Accounting and economics are prerequisites for finance at many undergraduate business colleges.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2010 01:40AM by Thomas More.

I agree with a lot of these posts about the quality of foreign language teachers and the variability of the program. I spent time in New York state and the program there is so much better! The Regents exams extend to all levels of the various foreign languages. This ensures a standard for each level. Here there are absolutely no standards (teachers can do whatever in the classroom and your son/daugher may or may not be prepared for the next level). No wonder UVA wants 4 or 5 years---they can't be sure what happened in the first 3---so just to make sure they want 4 or 5.

My son is taking level 1 Spanish in 9th grade. Half of the kids in his class are repeating the class after taking it last year in 8th grade so obviously they failed it or did poorly. I looked up the ACTFL (American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages) standards and I can tell you that those standards are not being followed here in FFX County. This county is really interested in the elementary school foreign language programs (which have about 3,000 students max), but spend little time thinking about the secondary foreign language program (30K plus students enrolled). Does that make any sense? Elementary is nice, but how many of us can get in and then transport our kids there (no buses for that---only for GT centers). Is this equitable?