Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Dad_bod
()
Date: March 25, 2019 09:39AM
If your student attends TJ as an underclassmen, or you think your student should attend TJ in the years ahead, a few lamentations from a senior dad.
Let's just say I know a TJ student with a 4.2 GPA and nearly perfect SAT and ACT scores. This student participated in two varsity sports and three academic clubs. In one academic club, this student reached the national finals. Finally, this student also completed a research internship with the federal government, designing and testing advanced medical devices.
From my perspective, this student fit TJ exceptionally well, and TJ fit this student exceptionally well. A great pairing and a lot of positive experiences.
If you focus on the learning environment, the instruction, the opportunities, and the facilities, TJ gets very high marks, and definitely holds its position as one of our Nation's top STEM schools.
If you focus on what happens after TJ, at least in this case, the school did not necessarily advantage this student.
The reason for this post is going to TJ possibly hindered this student with respect to college admission.
First, while Virginia schools, primarily UVA and VT, accept a substantial number of TJ graduates, at some point these colleges must draw the line. They can only take so many kids from TJ.
Further, too many TJ seniors consider UVA and VT as "safe schools." Very poor thinking and a faulty assumption.
Despite the "statistics" above, this student did not get accepted into the engineering program from either school.
Second, TJ seniors compete not only with the "best and brightest" from around the world, they compete with one other WRT college admission.
Survival of the fittest.
Any parent (or single person) reading this post will likely say, "STFU. Your kid got a fabulous, free HS education and now you're whining that he/she did not get into the Ivies or schools such as MIT or Stanford. Your kid won the lottery. First-world problem."
To you I say fair.
To other TJ parents or perspective TJ parents, I only share this thought: going from TJ to one of the top engineering schools in the nation is not a fait accompli.
Even with the resume above, this student did not get accepted into any the 3 schools currently ranked by US News & World Report as a top 9 engineering program.
Yes, 0-3.
In addition, two Ivy leagues schools said no thank you (0-5).
Unlike Asian tigers, snowplow or helicopter parents of TJ students, we took a hands-off approach.
You need help? Find it first through your teacher. If this doesn't work, look at other school resources next. If after all of this you still need support, we will find tutoring.
Fortunately this only happened a handful of times in four years.
This student chose the colleges and prepared the applications her/himself. We did not even review the essays. (The kid knows how to write anyway. What would we add to the stories of self?)
Anyway, looking back at 4 years, whether at TJ or any other NOVA HS, our area raises very smart kids and provides top-ranked schools. While greatly advantaged over most jurisdictions, there is still no "golden ticket." Your daughter or son competes with the world's best, which includes tens of thousands of area kids.
If you expect (demand) your student go to the top schools, then she/he better:
- get a final overall GPA of 4.5 or higher
- score perfectly on SAT and ACT
- hold officer or similar leadership positions in multiple clubs or teams
Basically raise a superstar.
Otherwise, be satisfied with their HS education. Applaud them for whatever colleges say yes. Send them onto the world knowing they will find their way equipped with the tools you gave them.
Good luck!
Let's just say I know a TJ student with a 4.2 GPA and nearly perfect SAT and ACT scores. This student participated in two varsity sports and three academic clubs. In one academic club, this student reached the national finals. Finally, this student also completed a research internship with the federal government, designing and testing advanced medical devices.
From my perspective, this student fit TJ exceptionally well, and TJ fit this student exceptionally well. A great pairing and a lot of positive experiences.
If you focus on the learning environment, the instruction, the opportunities, and the facilities, TJ gets very high marks, and definitely holds its position as one of our Nation's top STEM schools.
If you focus on what happens after TJ, at least in this case, the school did not necessarily advantage this student.
The reason for this post is going to TJ possibly hindered this student with respect to college admission.
First, while Virginia schools, primarily UVA and VT, accept a substantial number of TJ graduates, at some point these colleges must draw the line. They can only take so many kids from TJ.
Further, too many TJ seniors consider UVA and VT as "safe schools." Very poor thinking and a faulty assumption.
Despite the "statistics" above, this student did not get accepted into the engineering program from either school.
Second, TJ seniors compete not only with the "best and brightest" from around the world, they compete with one other WRT college admission.
Survival of the fittest.
Any parent (or single person) reading this post will likely say, "STFU. Your kid got a fabulous, free HS education and now you're whining that he/she did not get into the Ivies or schools such as MIT or Stanford. Your kid won the lottery. First-world problem."
To you I say fair.
To other TJ parents or perspective TJ parents, I only share this thought: going from TJ to one of the top engineering schools in the nation is not a fait accompli.
Even with the resume above, this student did not get accepted into any the 3 schools currently ranked by US News & World Report as a top 9 engineering program.
Yes, 0-3.
In addition, two Ivy leagues schools said no thank you (0-5).
Unlike Asian tigers, snowplow or helicopter parents of TJ students, we took a hands-off approach.
You need help? Find it first through your teacher. If this doesn't work, look at other school resources next. If after all of this you still need support, we will find tutoring.
Fortunately this only happened a handful of times in four years.
This student chose the colleges and prepared the applications her/himself. We did not even review the essays. (The kid knows how to write anyway. What would we add to the stories of self?)
Anyway, looking back at 4 years, whether at TJ or any other NOVA HS, our area raises very smart kids and provides top-ranked schools. While greatly advantaged over most jurisdictions, there is still no "golden ticket." Your daughter or son competes with the world's best, which includes tens of thousands of area kids.
If you expect (demand) your student go to the top schools, then she/he better:
- get a final overall GPA of 4.5 or higher
- score perfectly on SAT and ACT
- hold officer or similar leadership positions in multiple clubs or teams
Basically raise a superstar.
Otherwise, be satisfied with their HS education. Applaud them for whatever colleges say yes. Send them onto the world knowing they will find their way equipped with the tools you gave them.
Good luck!
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
thanks for this post
()
Date: March 25, 2019 10:44AM
We had to make decisions regarding our kids who were good candidates for TJ. We decided against applying, and I've always had "what if" questions. Your post confirms a little of what the concerns were and I appreciate it.
The results they ultimately attained were very positive, more positive than a lot of the TJ students experience evidently according to your account. It makes me think perhaps there shouldn't be a TJ, but rather a "TJ Track" in each of the other high schools so these students' hard work and smarts can be correctly juxtaposed (and rewarded) with the average. But maybe there aren't that many resources to go around to properly service that, and maybe as-is is the best we can do.
I feel for the students who are bottom-half of TJ, who would be top 5% or better at any other school in the county and work very hard there. I have to imagine wherever they end up they are doing excellent work and will have rewarding lives for it.
The results they ultimately attained were very positive, more positive than a lot of the TJ students experience evidently according to your account. It makes me think perhaps there shouldn't be a TJ, but rather a "TJ Track" in each of the other high schools so these students' hard work and smarts can be correctly juxtaposed (and rewarded) with the average. But maybe there aren't that many resources to go around to properly service that, and maybe as-is is the best we can do.
I feel for the students who are bottom-half of TJ, who would be top 5% or better at any other school in the county and work very hard there. I have to imagine wherever they end up they are doing excellent work and will have rewarding lives for it.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
NVCC2GMU
()
Date: March 25, 2019 11:08AM
That child has had a great start to adulthood.
Try the NVCC To GMU program
https://www.nvcc.edu/transfer/mason/transfer-guides.html
Try the NVCC To GMU program
https://www.nvcc.edu/transfer/mason/transfer-guides.html
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reality Knocking
()
Date: March 25, 2019 11:36AM
Dad_bod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unlike Asian tigers, snowplow or helicopter
> parents of TJ students, we took a hands-off
> approach.
That is your problem, right there. You screwed over your kid by lax parenting.
These colleges are now all accepting YUGE numbers of students from Asia whose parents beat the shit out of them for an A- or 1590 SAT. U.S. kids with only 4.2 GPA and 1550 SAT have zero chance for admission to some of these top engineering schools like Carnegie Mellon or Georgia Tech (I'll bet your kid applied to one or the other or both, right?), and FORGET about MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech. TJ or not - doesn't matter.
Hell, UVA and VT are now routinely rejecting kids from NoVa with those stats. Especially if you are white or Asian. However, if you are a black kid from Norfolk with a 1300 SAT and 3.8 GPA, then you are fucking golden.
Meanwhile, the good news I have for people like you is that there are still plenty of very good engineering schools that would accept your kid. UIUC, UMich, Purdue are all top notch engineering schools (ranked in top 10 in USN&WR) and sound like good matches for your kid.
Bottom Line: Tiger Mom ALWAYS beats hand-off mom. That is why Tiger Mom IS Tiger Mom; because she knows this. Sorry you learned this too late.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unlike Asian tigers, snowplow or helicopter
> parents of TJ students, we took a hands-off
> approach.
That is your problem, right there. You screwed over your kid by lax parenting.
These colleges are now all accepting YUGE numbers of students from Asia whose parents beat the shit out of them for an A- or 1590 SAT. U.S. kids with only 4.2 GPA and 1550 SAT have zero chance for admission to some of these top engineering schools like Carnegie Mellon or Georgia Tech (I'll bet your kid applied to one or the other or both, right?), and FORGET about MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech. TJ or not - doesn't matter.
Hell, UVA and VT are now routinely rejecting kids from NoVa with those stats. Especially if you are white or Asian. However, if you are a black kid from Norfolk with a 1300 SAT and 3.8 GPA, then you are fucking golden.
Meanwhile, the good news I have for people like you is that there are still plenty of very good engineering schools that would accept your kid. UIUC, UMich, Purdue are all top notch engineering schools (ranked in top 10 in USN&WR) and sound like good matches for your kid.
Bottom Line: Tiger Mom ALWAYS beats hand-off mom. That is why Tiger Mom IS Tiger Mom; because she knows this. Sorry you learned this too late.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Dad_bod
()
Date: March 25, 2019 01:03PM
Good calls!
One of those two schools? Yes. Sadly will miss out on great hot dogs in Pittsburgh (Oh's) and Atlanta (Varsity). More lamentation.
Top top schools: NFW. Why throw good money away?
UIUC, UMich, Purdue -- all great schools (and 2/3).
Heck, even going to a lower-ranked engineering school for undergrad works. You get out of it what you put into it.
As for being lax: "Now I know why tigers eat their young." (Al Czervik)
The kid got into to TJ and went through TJ without mindfulness, yoga, meditation, 508/IEPs, and therapy. He grabbed and held the reins. Proud parent.
FWIW, I'll take this each and every time versus lording over a kid who achieves a 4.5+ GPA and perfect SAT/ACT scores with daily thoughts of suicide and zero social skills.
One of those two schools? Yes. Sadly will miss out on great hot dogs in Pittsburgh (Oh's) and Atlanta (Varsity). More lamentation.
Top top schools: NFW. Why throw good money away?
UIUC, UMich, Purdue -- all great schools (and 2/3).
Heck, even going to a lower-ranked engineering school for undergrad works. You get out of it what you put into it.
As for being lax: "Now I know why tigers eat their young." (Al Czervik)
The kid got into to TJ and went through TJ without mindfulness, yoga, meditation, 508/IEPs, and therapy. He grabbed and held the reins. Proud parent.
FWIW, I'll take this each and every time versus lording over a kid who achieves a 4.5+ GPA and perfect SAT/ACT scores with daily thoughts of suicide and zero social skills.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reality Knocking
()
Date: March 25, 2019 02:47PM
Dad_bod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good calls!
>
> One of those two schools? Yes. Sadly will miss out
> on great hot dogs in Pittsburgh (Oh's) and Atlanta
> (Varsity). More lamentation.
>
> Top top schools: NFW. Why throw good money away?
>
> UIUC, UMich, Purdue -- all great schools (and
> 2/3).
>
> Heck, even going to a lower-ranked engineering
> school for undergrad works. You get out of it what
> you put into it.
>
> As for being lax: "Now I know why tigers eat their
> young." (Al Czervik)
>
> The kid got into to TJ and went through TJ without
> mindfulness, yoga, meditation, 508/IEPs, and
> therapy. He grabbed and held the reins. Proud
> parent.
>
> FWIW, I'll take this each and every time versus
> lording over a kid who achieves a 4.5+ GPA and
> perfect SAT/ACT scores with daily thoughts of
> suicide and zero social skills.
Yeah, there was some sarcasm and hyperbole in my post. You actually sound like a pretty good parent (at least by my values).
My own kid was a major underachiever. Tested out (twice) at 145 IQ. Was in the FCPS G&T program (or whatever they call it now). But no "eye of the tiger." We didn't even let her test for TJ. She wound up at Purdue. Gr8 school. Found something she actually loved (the key for smart or talented underachievers) and is excelling at it.
Good luck to you and your kid!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good calls!
>
> One of those two schools? Yes. Sadly will miss out
> on great hot dogs in Pittsburgh (Oh's) and Atlanta
> (Varsity). More lamentation.
>
> Top top schools: NFW. Why throw good money away?
>
> UIUC, UMich, Purdue -- all great schools (and
> 2/3).
>
> Heck, even going to a lower-ranked engineering
> school for undergrad works. You get out of it what
> you put into it.
>
> As for being lax: "Now I know why tigers eat their
> young." (Al Czervik)
>
> The kid got into to TJ and went through TJ without
> mindfulness, yoga, meditation, 508/IEPs, and
> therapy. He grabbed and held the reins. Proud
> parent.
>
> FWIW, I'll take this each and every time versus
> lording over a kid who achieves a 4.5+ GPA and
> perfect SAT/ACT scores with daily thoughts of
> suicide and zero social skills.
Yeah, there was some sarcasm and hyperbole in my post. You actually sound like a pretty good parent (at least by my values).
My own kid was a major underachiever. Tested out (twice) at 145 IQ. Was in the FCPS G&T program (or whatever they call it now). But no "eye of the tiger." We didn't even let her test for TJ. She wound up at Purdue. Gr8 school. Found something she actually loved (the key for smart or talented underachievers) and is excelling at it.
Good luck to you and your kid!
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reality Knocking
()
Date: March 25, 2019 03:09PM
I should have added, it's a different world than when I was coming up (and maybe you, too). I had a LOT lower SAT than my kid or probably yours, and I was accepted at MIT. And I'm as white as Casper the Friendly Ghost. LOL.
Back then there was . . . NO INTERNET! OMG, can you even imagine it?!? So if you were some really smart kid in, say Guanmiao, China, how the hell would you even know there WAS a Carnegie Mellon or Georgia Tech? Never mind trying to figure out how to get hold of an application, or actually submit it. Now it's all on AlGore's Interwbs.
Plus if you applied to seven different schools back then (I applied to four), you had to manually fill out seven different completely different applications. Now you have the Common App and Coalition App and applying to 10 or even 20 colleges is just a matter of doing the small individual sections for each school and paying the separate fees.
The competition is just soooooooooooooo much greater.
Back then there was . . . NO INTERNET! OMG, can you even imagine it?!? So if you were some really smart kid in, say Guanmiao, China, how the hell would you even know there WAS a Carnegie Mellon or Georgia Tech? Never mind trying to figure out how to get hold of an application, or actually submit it. Now it's all on AlGore's Interwbs.
Plus if you applied to seven different schools back then (I applied to four), you had to manually fill out seven different completely different applications. Now you have the Common App and Coalition App and applying to 10 or even 20 colleges is just a matter of doing the small individual sections for each school and paying the separate fees.
The competition is just soooooooooooooo much greater.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
blanche
()
Date: March 25, 2019 03:22PM
One of my girlfriends took her daughter out of TJ for senior year. She was one of the top students at her "home school" and got into the Engineering program at VT and got lots of $$$ since she was a woman in engineering.
Blanche jr. was not ready to go to sleepover college and went to Nova for two years and got into the VT Engineering school with the Guaranteed Admission path. He is doing great and will graduate without debt and probably plenty leftover for starting his life.
His employer can pay for grad school...
Blanche jr. was not ready to go to sleepover college and went to Nova for two years and got into the VT Engineering school with the Guaranteed Admission path. He is doing great and will graduate without debt and probably plenty leftover for starting his life.
His employer can pay for grad school...
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Bruin
()
Date: March 25, 2019 03:48PM
This is really cool that you guys can have a good confab like this without it melting down into nonsense...
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
ThatsWhy
()
Date: March 25, 2019 05:52PM
thanks for this post Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had to make decisions regarding our kids who
> were good candidates for TJ. We decided against
> applying, and I've always had "what if" questions.
> Your post confirms a little of what the concerns
> were and I appreciate it.
>
> The results they ultimately attained were very
> positive, more positive than a lot of the TJ
> students experience evidently according to your
> account. It makes me think perhaps there
> shouldn't be a TJ, but rather a "TJ Track" in each
> of the other high schools so these students' hard
> work and smarts can be correctly juxtaposed (and
> rewarded) with the average. But maybe there
> aren't that many resources to go around to
> properly service that, and maybe as-is is the best
> we can do.
>
> I feel for the students who are bottom-half of TJ,
> who would be top 5% or better at any other school
> in the county and work very hard there. I have to
> imagine wherever they end up they are doing
> excellent work and will have rewarding lives for
> it.
^ nicely said.
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had to make decisions regarding our kids who
> were good candidates for TJ. We decided against
> applying, and I've always had "what if" questions.
> Your post confirms a little of what the concerns
> were and I appreciate it.
>
> The results they ultimately attained were very
> positive, more positive than a lot of the TJ
> students experience evidently according to your
> account. It makes me think perhaps there
> shouldn't be a TJ, but rather a "TJ Track" in each
> of the other high schools so these students' hard
> work and smarts can be correctly juxtaposed (and
> rewarded) with the average. But maybe there
> aren't that many resources to go around to
> properly service that, and maybe as-is is the best
> we can do.
>
> I feel for the students who are bottom-half of TJ,
> who would be top 5% or better at any other school
> in the county and work very hard there. I have to
> imagine wherever they end up they are doing
> excellent work and will have rewarding lives for
> it.
^ nicely said.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
HowCome?
()
Date: March 25, 2019 05:55PM
blanche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of my girlfriends took her daughter out of TJ
> for senior year. She was one of the top students
> at her "home school" and got into the Engineering
> program at VT and got lots of $$$ since she was a
> woman in engineering.
>
> Blanche jr. was not ready to go to sleepover
> college and went to Nova for two years and got
> into the VT Engineering school with the Guaranteed
> Admission path. He is doing great and will
> graduate without debt and probably plenty leftover
> for starting his life.
> how is that - “...no debt...plenty left over...”?
> His employer can pay for grad school...
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of my girlfriends took her daughter out of TJ
> for senior year. She was one of the top students
> at her "home school" and got into the Engineering
> program at VT and got lots of $$$ since she was a
> woman in engineering.
>
> Blanche jr. was not ready to go to sleepover
> college and went to Nova for two years and got
> into the VT Engineering school with the Guaranteed
> Admission path. He is doing great and will
> graduate without debt and probably plenty leftover
> for starting his life.
> how is that - “...no debt...plenty left over...”?
> His employer can pay for grad school...
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Cold Comfort
()
Date: March 25, 2019 06:28PM
Forget what school admissions officers tell you. The top Virginia schools do have School quotas, they have Fairfax County quotas and they have NoVa quotas. TJ has the highest school quota. As you said though many of those admissions go to kids who are looking at Tech or UVA as there safety school. Then when you get dumped into the County and Nova pools of 4.0+, 1400+ students you are offering a resume and story that they already have those other TJ students offering while other schools have students with different resumes and stories. Good news is if you graduated in the top half of TJ you should be able to get into a very good school somewhere.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
blanche
()
Date: March 25, 2019 07:46PM
plenty left over??
His parents started saving for college when he was an infant -- I love these clowns who think about saving for college when the kid is in high school.
Some in a 529 account, other in a mutual fund -- he was born just prior to 529s being established. The money left in the mutual fund is his, since he got some gelt from scholarships also.
His parents started saving for college when he was an infant -- I love these clowns who think about saving for college when the kid is in high school.
Some in a 529 account, other in a mutual fund -- he was born just prior to 529s being established. The money left in the mutual fund is his, since he got some gelt from scholarships also.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Race to the bottom
()
Date: March 25, 2019 07:53PM
In my experience, tiger moms, snow plow parents and the like often times push their kids to breaking point. Emotional and psychological disorders are at epidemic levels. Great if your kid got into MIT, an amazing Ivy League, etc. but at what cost?
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Tjparentnot
()
Date: March 25, 2019 08:04PM
Kids are exhausting at every level I am sruggling down here With my gen -ed kids as well.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
A Solution
()
Date: March 25, 2019 08:56PM
Cold Comfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forget what school admissions officers tell you.
> The top Virginia schools do have School quotas,
> they have Fairfax County quotas and they have NoVa
> quotas. TJ has the highest school quota. As you
> said though many of those admissions go to kids
> who are looking at Tech or UVA as there safety
> school. Then when you get dumped into the County
> and Nova pools of 4.0+, 1400+ students you are
> offering a resume and story that they already have
> those other TJ students offering while other
> schools have students with different resumes and
> stories. Good news is if you graduated in the top
> half of TJ you should be able to get into a very
> good school somewhere.
What you posted is 100% spot on. I as much as called the orientation leader at UVA a liar when she claimed they have no quotas for FCPS. She just looked sheepish - she knew she was lying.
ANYWAY, here is my suggested solution.
Go to some cc OTHER than NoVa and THEN transfer to UVA. You only need a 3.4 GPA in CC t be guaranteed admission to UVA, and that is probably going to be a helluva lot easier in a different, less competitive, CC where there are a shit-ton more average American dumbasses and not all these high test NoVa kids.
If your kid went to UVA or VT, you'd be paying room & board anyway. So set them up someplace like Virginia Western Community College in Roanoke.
Good luck.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forget what school admissions officers tell you.
> The top Virginia schools do have School quotas,
> they have Fairfax County quotas and they have NoVa
> quotas. TJ has the highest school quota. As you
> said though many of those admissions go to kids
> who are looking at Tech or UVA as there safety
> school. Then when you get dumped into the County
> and Nova pools of 4.0+, 1400+ students you are
> offering a resume and story that they already have
> those other TJ students offering while other
> schools have students with different resumes and
> stories. Good news is if you graduated in the top
> half of TJ you should be able to get into a very
> good school somewhere.
What you posted is 100% spot on. I as much as called the orientation leader at UVA a liar when she claimed they have no quotas for FCPS. She just looked sheepish - she knew she was lying.
ANYWAY, here is my suggested solution.
Go to some cc OTHER than NoVa and THEN transfer to UVA. You only need a 3.4 GPA in CC t be guaranteed admission to UVA, and that is probably going to be a helluva lot easier in a different, less competitive, CC where there are a shit-ton more average American dumbasses and not all these high test NoVa kids.
If your kid went to UVA or VT, you'd be paying room & board anyway. So set them up someplace like Virginia Western Community College in Roanoke.
Good luck.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Dad_bod
()
Date: March 26, 2019 11:31AM
Same to you. Smart choices for your children. Wishing them and you well.
Purdue's campus really impressed me, so much so I volunteered to redo my undergraduate engineering studies.
All of the schools we visited were impressive, and they certainly appeal to today's students, while also frantically competing with one another.
Notre Dame invested $500M in a new rec center, co-located with its venerated football stadium. (Apparently rock-climbing walls are a thing at most universities these days.)
Someone mentioned the bar is now higher than when we went to school.
True.
I was in the top 10% of my HS graduating class with 1350 SAT and got into 7/8 engineering programs, including some (now) highly-ranked schools that did not accept my student.
I chose a mid-tier, public engineering school and left with very little student debt by working during college, changing my residency (to get in-state rates), and getting some money from my parents.
Later, my employer paid for my engineering Master's degree (thanks!)
I think our job as parents is to provide opportunity for our kids.
If they take it, great. If not, it's neither a reflection on them nor us.
Purdue's campus really impressed me, so much so I volunteered to redo my undergraduate engineering studies.
All of the schools we visited were impressive, and they certainly appeal to today's students, while also frantically competing with one another.
Notre Dame invested $500M in a new rec center, co-located with its venerated football stadium. (Apparently rock-climbing walls are a thing at most universities these days.)
Someone mentioned the bar is now higher than when we went to school.
True.
I was in the top 10% of my HS graduating class with 1350 SAT and got into 7/8 engineering programs, including some (now) highly-ranked schools that did not accept my student.
I chose a mid-tier, public engineering school and left with very little student debt by working during college, changing my residency (to get in-state rates), and getting some money from my parents.
Later, my employer paid for my engineering Master's degree (thanks!)
I think our job as parents is to provide opportunity for our kids.
If they take it, great. If not, it's neither a reflection on them nor us.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
abolishTJ
()
Date: March 26, 2019 12:47PM
TJ should be shut down. There is no reason for it to exist. High achieving kids should just go to their local high school. It's a waste of taxpayer money.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
pdmkm
()
Date: March 26, 2019 12:49PM
Point is you can get a great education at most high schools in FCPS. I know many kids from average FCPS high schools that get into the best schools in the country. Ivy League schools.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Gold Standard!
()
Date: March 26, 2019 01:01PM
abolishTJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ should be shut down. There is no reason for it
> to exist. High achieving kids should just go to
> their local high school. It's a waste of taxpayer
> money.
But then FCPS and local pols wouldn't have any schools in the top 10 lists that they could point to. Which is the main reason why it's there.
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ should be shut down. There is no reason for it
> to exist. High achieving kids should just go to
> their local high school. It's a waste of taxpayer
> money.
But then FCPS and local pols wouldn't have any schools in the top 10 lists that they could point to. Which is the main reason why it's there.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reverse discrimination
()
Date: March 26, 2019 01:41PM
Quite possibly that student was the victim of reverse discrimination, especially if they are a male, Asian or White student.
Reverse discrimination is very common in college admissions now.
Part of the reason for limits on schools they admit from, is racist.
The goal of "equity" rather than "equality" means a lot more racism in admissions takes place, rather than taking the students who worked hard. "equity" means you give preference to blacks, females, LGBT over everyone else, which means Asians, whites, males and non-LGBT are pushed down the admissions list.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/03/04/research-suggests-bias-against-asian-americans-after-they-earn-degrees
Reverse discrimination is very common in college admissions now.
Part of the reason for limits on schools they admit from, is racist.
The goal of "equity" rather than "equality" means a lot more racism in admissions takes place, rather than taking the students who worked hard. "equity" means you give preference to blacks, females, LGBT over everyone else, which means Asians, whites, males and non-LGBT are pushed down the admissions list.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/03/04/research-suggests-bias-against-asian-americans-after-they-earn-degrees
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reality Knocking
()
Date: March 26, 2019 05:00PM
abolishTJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ should be shut down. There is no reason for it
> to exist. High achieving kids should just go to
> their local high school. It's a waste of taxpayer
> money.
You sound jealous and bitter.
My kid did not go to TJ, or even apply. But I strongly support TJ.
In fact, instead of pouring a TON of money at underperforming and troublemaking kids, who are the most likely to be burdens on society all their lives, in a mostly futile effort to try to get them to mediocrity, they should take all that money and build 3 or 4 more TJs to take our best and brightest - the folks who are most likely to be society's producers and achievers - and make them better and brighter.
Only in a perverse system as fucked up as government run schools would someone reward failures by throwing more money at them, while at the exact same time starving the successful and the achievers of the resources they have earned and could use to succeed and achieve even more. It's just stupid.
-------------------------------------------------------
> TJ should be shut down. There is no reason for it
> to exist. High achieving kids should just go to
> their local high school. It's a waste of taxpayer
> money.
You sound jealous and bitter.
My kid did not go to TJ, or even apply. But I strongly support TJ.
In fact, instead of pouring a TON of money at underperforming and troublemaking kids, who are the most likely to be burdens on society all their lives, in a mostly futile effort to try to get them to mediocrity, they should take all that money and build 3 or 4 more TJs to take our best and brightest - the folks who are most likely to be society's producers and achievers - and make them better and brighter.
Only in a perverse system as fucked up as government run schools would someone reward failures by throwing more money at them, while at the exact same time starving the successful and the achievers of the resources they have earned and could use to succeed and achieve even more. It's just stupid.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reality Knocking
()
Date: March 26, 2019 05:19PM
Dad_bod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same to you. Smart choices for your children.
> Wishing them and you well.
>
> Purdue's campus really impressed me, so much so I
> volunteered to redo my undergraduate engineering
> studies.
>
> All of the schools we visited were impressive, and
> they certainly appeal to today's students, while
> also frantically competing with one another.
>
> Notre Dame invested $500M in a new rec center,
> co-located with its venerated football stadium.
> (Apparently rock-climbing walls are a thing at
> most universities these days.)
>
> Someone mentioned the bar is now higher than when
> we went to school.
>
> True.
>
> I was in the top 10% of my HS graduating class
> with 1350 SAT and got into 7/8 engineering
> programs, including some (now) highly-ranked
> schools that did not accept my student.
>
> I chose a mid-tier, public engineering school and
> left with very little student debt by working
> during college, changing my residency (to get
> in-state rates), and getting some money from my
> parents.
>
> Later, my employer paid for my engineering
> Master's degree (thanks!)
>
> I think our job as parents is to provide
> opportunity for our kids.
>
> If they take it, great. If not, it's neither a
> reflection on them nor us.
Many/most of these schools are all onto the changing your residency trick these days. If you start there out of state, it's now damn near impossible to ever get in-state tuition. You would basically have to take a year leave of absence while you established in-state residency.
I was lucky. I graduated from a quasi-elite out-of-state engineering school with ZERO debt. Got a full ride from my father's employer, interned summers at a power company, and worked for the campus police and taught physics labs for spending money. Like you, my employer paid for my MSEE . . . and half of an MBA until I quit and went to law school. No one was paying for that (LOL), so I worked days and attended at night . . . still racked up a little debt which I paid off.
It's just a lot harder and a lot more expensive these days. When I hear politicians yammering about free college I just laugh. In an ideal world, OK. But here in Realville, at $50k minimum for four years, up to $250K with room and board at some private schools . . . uh, that's not happening.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same to you. Smart choices for your children.
> Wishing them and you well.
>
> Purdue's campus really impressed me, so much so I
> volunteered to redo my undergraduate engineering
> studies.
>
> All of the schools we visited were impressive, and
> they certainly appeal to today's students, while
> also frantically competing with one another.
>
> Notre Dame invested $500M in a new rec center,
> co-located with its venerated football stadium.
> (Apparently rock-climbing walls are a thing at
> most universities these days.)
>
> Someone mentioned the bar is now higher than when
> we went to school.
>
> True.
>
> I was in the top 10% of my HS graduating class
> with 1350 SAT and got into 7/8 engineering
> programs, including some (now) highly-ranked
> schools that did not accept my student.
>
> I chose a mid-tier, public engineering school and
> left with very little student debt by working
> during college, changing my residency (to get
> in-state rates), and getting some money from my
> parents.
>
> Later, my employer paid for my engineering
> Master's degree (thanks!)
>
> I think our job as parents is to provide
> opportunity for our kids.
>
> If they take it, great. If not, it's neither a
> reflection on them nor us.
Many/most of these schools are all onto the changing your residency trick these days. If you start there out of state, it's now damn near impossible to ever get in-state tuition. You would basically have to take a year leave of absence while you established in-state residency.
I was lucky. I graduated from a quasi-elite out-of-state engineering school with ZERO debt. Got a full ride from my father's employer, interned summers at a power company, and worked for the campus police and taught physics labs for spending money. Like you, my employer paid for my MSEE . . . and half of an MBA until I quit and went to law school. No one was paying for that (LOL), so I worked days and attended at night . . . still racked up a little debt which I paid off.
It's just a lot harder and a lot more expensive these days. When I hear politicians yammering about free college I just laugh. In an ideal world, OK. But here in Realville, at $50k minimum for four years, up to $250K with room and board at some private schools . . . uh, that's not happening.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
.........
()
Date: March 26, 2019 08:43PM
Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a freaking DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on a full ride.
Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as you think.
Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as you think.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reverse Discrimination
()
Date: March 26, 2019 09:20PM
......... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a freaking
> DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on a
> full ride.
>
> Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as you
> think.
But you're a nigger.
So there's that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a freaking
> DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on a
> full ride.
>
> Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as you
> think.
But you're a nigger.
So there's that.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
.......
()
Date: March 26, 2019 09:47PM
Reverse Discrimination Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ......... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a
> freaking
> > DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on
> a
> > full ride.
> >
> > Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as
> you
> > think.
>
> But you're a nigger.
>
> So there's that.
As White and straight as they come. Lol.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ......... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a
> freaking
> > DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on
> a
> > full ride.
> >
> > Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as
> you
> > think.
>
> But you're a nigger.
>
> So there's that.
As White and straight as they come. Lol.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Bill.N.
()
Date: March 27, 2019 01:41PM
Reality Knocking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, instead of pouring a TON of money at
> underperforming and troublemaking kids, who are
> the most likely to be burdens on society all their
> lives, in a mostly futile effort to try to get
> them to mediocrity, they should take all that
> money and build 3 or 4 more TJs to take our best
> and brightest - the folks who are most likely to
> be society's producers and achievers - and make
> them better and brighter.
If you look at per student allocation of resources the top students as well as the students at the bottom receive a disproportionate share. This has in turn caused parents of better than average students to push to have their kids included in programs that are not suited for their kids, while at the same time creating a disincentive for underperforming students and their parents to work harder to try and bring their kids up to average. As situations like this continue they feed on themselves leading to the hourglass resource allocation that we have now.
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, instead of pouring a TON of money at
> underperforming and troublemaking kids, who are
> the most likely to be burdens on society all their
> lives, in a mostly futile effort to try to get
> them to mediocrity, they should take all that
> money and build 3 or 4 more TJs to take our best
> and brightest - the folks who are most likely to
> be society's producers and achievers - and make
> them better and brighter.
If you look at per student allocation of resources the top students as well as the students at the bottom receive a disproportionate share. This has in turn caused parents of better than average students to push to have their kids included in programs that are not suited for their kids, while at the same time creating a disincentive for underperforming students and their parents to work harder to try and bring their kids up to average. As situations like this continue they feed on themselves leading to the hourglass resource allocation that we have now.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Rick Ross
()
Date: March 27, 2019 09:19PM
To OP: Chill, you knew the risk when you celebrated the acceptance and matriculation to TJ. You swim with the sharks. Sometime you win, sometimes you take the L. Your child has done well....and will do well at the next level of post-secondary education.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
PG Co Resident
()
Date: March 27, 2019 10:32PM
The funny thing is if his son had been a mediocre student at Eleanor Roosevelt HS in Greenbelt, he would have been admitted to both UVA and Tech and also UMD.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Really?
()
Date: March 27, 2019 11:56PM
PG Co Resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The funny thing is if his son had been a mediocre
> student at Eleanor Roosevelt HS in Greenbelt, he
> would have been admitted to both UVA and Tech and
> also UMD.
But he doesn't live in Maryland, so not an option for him. And fuck knows why UVA and VT would accept kids from Maryland with grades and GPAs that they reject from FCPS..
I know a kid graduating this year from FCPS. 4.0 GPA; 1530 SAT. Lots of community service and extra curriculars.
Rejected at UVA. Wait listed at VT.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The funny thing is if his son had been a mediocre
> student at Eleanor Roosevelt HS in Greenbelt, he
> would have been admitted to both UVA and Tech and
> also UMD.
But he doesn't live in Maryland, so not an option for him. And fuck knows why UVA and VT would accept kids from Maryland with grades and GPAs that they reject from FCPS..
I know a kid graduating this year from FCPS. 4.0 GPA; 1530 SAT. Lots of community service and extra curriculars.
Rejected at UVA. Wait listed at VT.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
To Rick Ross
()
Date: March 27, 2019 11:57PM
Rick Ross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To OP: Chill, you knew the risk when you
> celebrated the acceptance and matriculation to TJ.
> You swim with the sharks. Sometime you win,
> sometimes you take the L. Your child has done
> well....and will do well at the next level of
> post-secondary education.
He was plenty chill. Why don't YOU chill?
-------------------------------------------------------
> To OP: Chill, you knew the risk when you
> celebrated the acceptance and matriculation to TJ.
> You swim with the sharks. Sometime you win,
> sometimes you take the L. Your child has done
> well....and will do well at the next level of
> post-secondary education.
He was plenty chill. Why don't YOU chill?
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Cath School Kid Grad...
()
Date: March 28, 2019 12:07AM
I have heard that bottom third of kids at TJ get screwed. Would have been top 10% at the home school.
I have judged the science fair there multiple times. It is hit or miss. Some are perfect out of the book projects. Others think it up. It's a big difference.
I used to hire UVA/Georgetown/Ivy kids....Not anymore. If not into grad or professional schools, they peaked in HS to get into these schools by memorizing. They are not thinkers.
I want kids from Tech, Penn State, and, yes, UMBC, They create thinkers..
I paid for private school and I see that my kids grades are below their friends at Woodson, RHS, and LBHS but are now getting in over them at several schools. Maybe the schools know I have $$$. I don't know. But, I do know 150+ colleges made the time to visit them this year.
Maybe it's you get what you pay for??? It was well worth it with the offers we are getting to pay for college. Invest now for HS to save more than that in college?
My two cents.
I have judged the science fair there multiple times. It is hit or miss. Some are perfect out of the book projects. Others think it up. It's a big difference.
I used to hire UVA/Georgetown/Ivy kids....Not anymore. If not into grad or professional schools, they peaked in HS to get into these schools by memorizing. They are not thinkers.
I want kids from Tech, Penn State, and, yes, UMBC, They create thinkers..
I paid for private school and I see that my kids grades are below their friends at Woodson, RHS, and LBHS but are now getting in over them at several schools. Maybe the schools know I have $$$. I don't know. But, I do know 150+ colleges made the time to visit them this year.
Maybe it's you get what you pay for??? It was well worth it with the offers we are getting to pay for college. Invest now for HS to save more than that in college?
My two cents.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Reverse Discrimination
()
Date: March 28, 2019 09:33PM
Cath School Kid Grad... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have heard that bottom third of kids at TJ get
> screwed. Would have been top 10% at the home
> school.
>
> I have judged the science fair there multiple
> times. It is hit or miss. Some are perfect out of
> the book projects. Others think it up. It's a
> big difference.
>
> I used to hire UVA/Georgetown/Ivy kids....Not
> anymore. If not into grad or professional
> schools, they peaked in HS to get into these
> schools by memorizing. They are not thinkers.
>
> I want kids from Tech, Penn State, and, yes, UMBC,
> They create thinkers..
>
> I paid for private school and I see that my kids
> grades are below their friends at Woodson, RHS,
> and LBHS but are now getting in over them at
> several schools. Maybe the schools know I have
> $$$. I don't know. But, I do know 150+ colleges
> made the time to visit them this year.
>
> Maybe it's you get what you pay for??? It was
> well worth it with the offers we are getting to
> pay for college. Invest now for HS to save more
> than that in college?
>
> My two cents.
The most irredeemably stupid post here this month. So congrats for that!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have heard that bottom third of kids at TJ get
> screwed. Would have been top 10% at the home
> school.
>
> I have judged the science fair there multiple
> times. It is hit or miss. Some are perfect out of
> the book projects. Others think it up. It's a
> big difference.
>
> I used to hire UVA/Georgetown/Ivy kids....Not
> anymore. If not into grad or professional
> schools, they peaked in HS to get into these
> schools by memorizing. They are not thinkers.
>
> I want kids from Tech, Penn State, and, yes, UMBC,
> They create thinkers..
>
> I paid for private school and I see that my kids
> grades are below their friends at Woodson, RHS,
> and LBHS but are now getting in over them at
> several schools. Maybe the schools know I have
> $$$. I don't know. But, I do know 150+ colleges
> made the time to visit them this year.
>
> Maybe it's you get what you pay for??? It was
> well worth it with the offers we are getting to
> pay for college. Invest now for HS to save more
> than that in college?
>
> My two cents.
The most irredeemably stupid post here this month. So congrats for that!
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
P4XUD
()
Date: March 29, 2019 01:36PM
......... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a freaking
> DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on a
> full ride.
>
> Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as you
> think.
DoDDS overseas with a good principal on an Army or Air Force facility is the best possible world. Troublemaker kids are not tolerated and can be deported back to the US, thereby ending their sponsors' careers. Most sponsors will voluntarily deport their own kids at the first signs of trouble.
Navy is a little different since lots of those kids don't have fathers for several months at a time, so the Navy doesn't place so much
Add to it that getting and keeping a DoDDS teaching or admin position is highly competitive, and you end up with zero duds on the faculty.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a freaking
> DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on a
> full ride.
>
> Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as you
> think.
DoDDS overseas with a good principal on an Army or Air Force facility is the best possible world. Troublemaker kids are not tolerated and can be deported back to the US, thereby ending their sponsors' careers. Most sponsors will voluntarily deport their own kids at the first signs of trouble.
Navy is a little different since lots of those kids don't have fathers for several months at a time, so the Navy doesn't place so much
Add to it that getting and keeping a DoDDS teaching or admin position is highly competitive, and you end up with zero duds on the faculty.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
The TJ Way
()
Date: March 31, 2019 10:15AM
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone."
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
LOngtimeHappenin
()
Date: March 31, 2019 10:29AM
Reverse discrimination Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quite possibly that student was the victim of
> reverse discrimination, especially if they are a
> male, Asian or White student.
>
> Reverse discrimination is very common in college
> admissions now.
>
> Part of the reason for limits on schools they
> admit from, is racist.
>
> The goal of "equity" rather than "equality" means
> a lot more racism in admissions takes place,
> rather than taking the students who worked hard.
> "equity" means you give preference to blacks,
> females, LGBT over everyone else, which means
> Asians, whites, males and non-LGBT are pushed down
> the admissions list.
>
> https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/
> 2019/03/04/research-suggests-bias-against-asian-am
> ericans-after-they-earn-degrees
Reverse discrimination (...well, it should be just called discrimination -- reverse discrimination seems to lighten the impact) has been around for a long, long time -- in admissions to (all, not just elite) high school and colleges, and government (especially!) and private sector employment.
Affirmative action almost immediately (and improperly) went into a quota system. Victim politics have been around since the 1960s pushing identity politics where we are now in a post-truth era where crazy-ass opinions trump (pun intended) facts. Yes, that's why someone like Trump got elected -- because these anti white (men) gender- and race- baiting Democrats pushed moderate and even liberal Democrats out of the Party -- to push a socialist, off-the rails, white-men-evil agenda.
College admissions should be blind. Yes, do rich people have advantages? Of course. Life isn't fair. The answer isn't to reward people who didn't make the mark, for whatever reason, with admission or job offer; that's even more unfair.
Not all white men are millionaires/billionaires. Most white men are working class (emphasis on working). A staggering majority of white people cannot trace their ancestry to the USA civil war or pre civil war (i.e., slavery). Most white people CAN trace their ancestry to their own horrific history of enslavement, brutality, war, and starvation: Holocaust, Polish genocide, Armenian genocide, Irish (in particular)/Welch/Scottish domination by the English, Greek genocide by the Turks, Macedonia, Bosnia former Yugoslavia civil wars, etc. That does not mean anyone deserves reparations for historic evils. We'd all be rich! Reparations are now main stream discussion points by Democrats, e.g. Sen. Warren. Shameful race baiting.
I disagree with identity politics and want people judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin. Non white men privilege exists, too, everyone who work sees it (whether it's admitted or not). False accusations of racist and sexism is a common place agenda item for litigation -- EEOC is almost an entitlement program.
Race (and gender) politics are destroying our county. Putin and our enemies are laughing at, and exploiting, our stupidity.
- Former Democrat (now Independent)
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quite possibly that student was the victim of
> reverse discrimination, especially if they are a
> male, Asian or White student.
>
> Reverse discrimination is very common in college
> admissions now.
>
> Part of the reason for limits on schools they
> admit from, is racist.
>
> The goal of "equity" rather than "equality" means
> a lot more racism in admissions takes place,
> rather than taking the students who worked hard.
> "equity" means you give preference to blacks,
> females, LGBT over everyone else, which means
> Asians, whites, males and non-LGBT are pushed down
> the admissions list.
>
> https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/
> 2019/03/04/research-suggests-bias-against-asian-am
> ericans-after-they-earn-degrees
Reverse discrimination (...well, it should be just called discrimination -- reverse discrimination seems to lighten the impact) has been around for a long, long time -- in admissions to (all, not just elite) high school and colleges, and government (especially!) and private sector employment.
Affirmative action almost immediately (and improperly) went into a quota system. Victim politics have been around since the 1960s pushing identity politics where we are now in a post-truth era where crazy-ass opinions trump (pun intended) facts. Yes, that's why someone like Trump got elected -- because these anti white (men) gender- and race- baiting Democrats pushed moderate and even liberal Democrats out of the Party -- to push a socialist, off-the rails, white-men-evil agenda.
College admissions should be blind. Yes, do rich people have advantages? Of course. Life isn't fair. The answer isn't to reward people who didn't make the mark, for whatever reason, with admission or job offer; that's even more unfair.
Not all white men are millionaires/billionaires. Most white men are working class (emphasis on working). A staggering majority of white people cannot trace their ancestry to the USA civil war or pre civil war (i.e., slavery). Most white people CAN trace their ancestry to their own horrific history of enslavement, brutality, war, and starvation: Holocaust, Polish genocide, Armenian genocide, Irish (in particular)/Welch/Scottish domination by the English, Greek genocide by the Turks, Macedonia, Bosnia former Yugoslavia civil wars, etc. That does not mean anyone deserves reparations for historic evils. We'd all be rich! Reparations are now main stream discussion points by Democrats, e.g. Sen. Warren. Shameful race baiting.
I disagree with identity politics and want people judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin. Non white men privilege exists, too, everyone who work sees it (whether it's admitted or not). False accusations of racist and sexism is a common place agenda item for litigation -- EEOC is almost an entitlement program.
Race (and gender) politics are destroying our county. Putin and our enemies are laughing at, and exploiting, our stupidity.
- Former Democrat (now Independent)
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
College is for LunkHeads
()
Date: March 31, 2019 10:43AM
My boy graduated from Marshall HS. Started his own business Fucked all your daughters and some of your wives too. Is worth 10 mill @ 29. How much did you stupid fags pay for those liberal arts degrees?
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
The right balance
()
Date: March 31, 2019 12:39PM
"College admissions should be blind. Yes, do rich people have advantages? Of course. Life isn't fair. The answer isn't to reward people who didn't make the mark, for whatever reason, with admission or job offer; that's even more unfair."
It isn't that simple. The community financially supports primary and secondary education because all the children of the community who haven't disqualified themselves have the right to attend those schools. When you move to publicly supported state colleges and universities the capacity isn't there. Yet if the diverse communities of the state are helping to financially support those state colleges and universities those different communities have a legitimate expectation that some of their kids will receive the benefit of an education at those same colleges and universities. A completely blind admissions system fails this test.
It is possible to design a system which is both merit based and which gives the diverse communities of the state a reasonable chance at receiving the benefits of an education at the top colleges and universities. The system used in Texas accomplishes this. Top 6% of the graduating class equals admission to UT. The Hispanic kid in an underperforming and underfunded heavily minority school system has just as good a shot at by right admissions as a kid in a overwhelmingly white well funded school system, because each is competing against others who have the same benefits or handicaps.
In theory the unofficial quota systems that are maintained (despite their claims otherwise) by the top Virginia universities work the same way. In reality the unofficial nature of those quotas allows the schools to play more games with admissions. Two high schools of the same size in Fairfax County can have different school quotas. Then when it comes to filling those high school quotas the universities can choose to overlook top students in favor of lesser performing students who check other boxes.
TJ parents, if you think your kids are being screwed over by going to TJ there is an up side. If your kid is in the top 20% of the class at TJ he is all but guaranteed admission to UVA. If your kid ranks below the top 5 or 10 (class rank not percentage) in certain other larger schools in the county he may be passed over for a kid 20 spots below him who is a member of an underrepresented race, ethnicity or gender, or who has indicated a preference for studying something other than STEM.
It isn't that simple. The community financially supports primary and secondary education because all the children of the community who haven't disqualified themselves have the right to attend those schools. When you move to publicly supported state colleges and universities the capacity isn't there. Yet if the diverse communities of the state are helping to financially support those state colleges and universities those different communities have a legitimate expectation that some of their kids will receive the benefit of an education at those same colleges and universities. A completely blind admissions system fails this test.
It is possible to design a system which is both merit based and which gives the diverse communities of the state a reasonable chance at receiving the benefits of an education at the top colleges and universities. The system used in Texas accomplishes this. Top 6% of the graduating class equals admission to UT. The Hispanic kid in an underperforming and underfunded heavily minority school system has just as good a shot at by right admissions as a kid in a overwhelmingly white well funded school system, because each is competing against others who have the same benefits or handicaps.
In theory the unofficial quota systems that are maintained (despite their claims otherwise) by the top Virginia universities work the same way. In reality the unofficial nature of those quotas allows the schools to play more games with admissions. Two high schools of the same size in Fairfax County can have different school quotas. Then when it comes to filling those high school quotas the universities can choose to overlook top students in favor of lesser performing students who check other boxes.
TJ parents, if you think your kids are being screwed over by going to TJ there is an up side. If your kid is in the top 20% of the class at TJ he is all but guaranteed admission to UVA. If your kid ranks below the top 5 or 10 (class rank not percentage) in certain other larger schools in the county he may be passed over for a kid 20 spots below him who is a member of an underrepresented race, ethnicity or gender, or who has indicated a preference for studying something other than STEM.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
........
()
Date: March 31, 2019 04:33PM
P4XUD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ......... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a
> freaking
> > DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on
> a
> > full ride.
> >
> > Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as
> you
> > think.
>
>
> DoDDS overseas with a good principal on an Army or
> Air Force facility is the best possible world.
> Troublemaker kids are not tolerated and can be
> deported back to the US, thereby ending their
> sponsors' careers. Most sponsors will voluntarily
> deport their own kids at the first signs of
> trouble.
>
> Navy is a little different since lots of those
> kids don't have fathers for several months at a
> time, so the Navy doesn't place so much
>
> Add to it that getting and keeping a DoDDS
> teaching or admin position is highly competitive,
> and you end up with zero duds on the faculty.
You literally have no clue how fucked up DoDDS schools are.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ......... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol...TJ parents crack me up. I went to a
> freaking
> > DODDS high school, and walked into Georgetown on
> a
> > full ride.
> >
> > Your little snowflake isn't as accomplished as
> you
> > think.
>
>
> DoDDS overseas with a good principal on an Army or
> Air Force facility is the best possible world.
> Troublemaker kids are not tolerated and can be
> deported back to the US, thereby ending their
> sponsors' careers. Most sponsors will voluntarily
> deport their own kids at the first signs of
> trouble.
>
> Navy is a little different since lots of those
> kids don't have fathers for several months at a
> time, so the Navy doesn't place so much
>
> Add to it that getting and keeping a DoDDS
> teaching or admin position is highly competitive,
> and you end up with zero duds on the faculty.
You literally have no clue how fucked up DoDDS schools are.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
DesignFlaw
()
Date: March 31, 2019 06:45PM
The right balance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "College admissions should be blind. Yes, do rich
> people have advantages? Of course. Life isn't
> fair. The answer isn't to reward people who didn't
> make the mark, for whatever reason, with admission
> or job offer; that's even more unfair."
>
> It isn't that simple. The community financially
> supports primary and secondary education because
> all the children of the community who haven't
> disqualified themselves have the right to attend
> those schools. When you move to publicly
> supported state colleges and universities the
> capacity isn't there. Yet if the diverse
> communities of the state are helping to
> financially support those state colleges and
> universities those different communities have a
> legitimate expectation that some of their kids
> will receive the benefit of an education at those
> same colleges and universities. A completely
> blind admissions system fails this test.
>
> It is possible to design a system which is both
> merit based and which gives the diverse
> communities of the state a reasonable chance at
> receiving the benefits of an education at the top
> colleges and universities. The system used in
> Texas accomplishes this. Top 6% of the graduating
> class equals admission to UT. The Hispanic kid in
> an underperforming and underfunded heavily
> minority school system has just as good a shot at
> by right admissions as a kid in a overwhelmingly
> white well funded school system, because each is
> competing against others who have the same
> benefits or handicaps.
>
> In theory the unofficial quota systems that are
> maintained (despite their claims otherwise) by the
> top Virginia universities work the same way. In
> reality the unofficial nature of those quotas
> allows the schools to play more games with
> admissions. Two high schools of the same size in
> Fairfax County can have different school quotas.
> Then when it comes to filling those high school
> quotas the universities can choose to overlook top
> students in favor of lesser performing students
> who check other boxes.
>
> TJ parents, if you think your kids are being
> screwed over by going to TJ there is an up side.
> If your kid is in the top 20% of the class at TJ
> he is all but guaranteed admission to UVA. If
> your kid ranks below the top 5 or 10 (class rank
> not percentage) in certain other larger schools in
> the county he may be passed over for a kid 20
> spots below him who is a member of an
> underrepresented race, ethnicity or gender, or who
> has indicated a preference for studying something
> other than STEM.
All good intentions, I agree, but this is simple: what you described is fundamentally unfair. You are advocating for the dumbing down of society.
People do not compete with their community, they compete with the world. Just because I am better than 6% of my dumb-ass illiterate friends who don't even show up to class SHOULDN'T (but does, as you pointed out) mean that I enter university with the white or well-funded 6% students who busted their ass to gain entrance. It's the dumbing down of our country. Thanks -- but I'll go to the surgeon who ranked top 6% in his class and earned it against other hardworking students instead of the student who gained admission in some social experiment gone nuts designed by crazy liberals to make themselves feel better.
For what it's worth, I also do not believe that letters of recommendation (which favor the well to do) or these uber silly community service projects (mainly done by stay at home mothers on behalf of their spoiled kid) should count much toward admissions.
I won't even get into the Affirmative Action at work. The world has gone nuts. And the top 6% of the dumbass communities are now everyone's boss.
-------------------------------------------------------
> "College admissions should be blind. Yes, do rich
> people have advantages? Of course. Life isn't
> fair. The answer isn't to reward people who didn't
> make the mark, for whatever reason, with admission
> or job offer; that's even more unfair."
>
> It isn't that simple. The community financially
> supports primary and secondary education because
> all the children of the community who haven't
> disqualified themselves have the right to attend
> those schools. When you move to publicly
> supported state colleges and universities the
> capacity isn't there. Yet if the diverse
> communities of the state are helping to
> financially support those state colleges and
> universities those different communities have a
> legitimate expectation that some of their kids
> will receive the benefit of an education at those
> same colleges and universities. A completely
> blind admissions system fails this test.
>
> It is possible to design a system which is both
> merit based and which gives the diverse
> communities of the state a reasonable chance at
> receiving the benefits of an education at the top
> colleges and universities. The system used in
> Texas accomplishes this. Top 6% of the graduating
> class equals admission to UT. The Hispanic kid in
> an underperforming and underfunded heavily
> minority school system has just as good a shot at
> by right admissions as a kid in a overwhelmingly
> white well funded school system, because each is
> competing against others who have the same
> benefits or handicaps.
>
> In theory the unofficial quota systems that are
> maintained (despite their claims otherwise) by the
> top Virginia universities work the same way. In
> reality the unofficial nature of those quotas
> allows the schools to play more games with
> admissions. Two high schools of the same size in
> Fairfax County can have different school quotas.
> Then when it comes to filling those high school
> quotas the universities can choose to overlook top
> students in favor of lesser performing students
> who check other boxes.
>
> TJ parents, if you think your kids are being
> screwed over by going to TJ there is an up side.
> If your kid is in the top 20% of the class at TJ
> he is all but guaranteed admission to UVA. If
> your kid ranks below the top 5 or 10 (class rank
> not percentage) in certain other larger schools in
> the county he may be passed over for a kid 20
> spots below him who is a member of an
> underrepresented race, ethnicity or gender, or who
> has indicated a preference for studying something
> other than STEM.
All good intentions, I agree, but this is simple: what you described is fundamentally unfair. You are advocating for the dumbing down of society.
People do not compete with their community, they compete with the world. Just because I am better than 6% of my dumb-ass illiterate friends who don't even show up to class SHOULDN'T (but does, as you pointed out) mean that I enter university with the white or well-funded 6% students who busted their ass to gain entrance. It's the dumbing down of our country. Thanks -- but I'll go to the surgeon who ranked top 6% in his class and earned it against other hardworking students instead of the student who gained admission in some social experiment gone nuts designed by crazy liberals to make themselves feel better.
For what it's worth, I also do not believe that letters of recommendation (which favor the well to do) or these uber silly community service projects (mainly done by stay at home mothers on behalf of their spoiled kid) should count much toward admissions.
I won't even get into the Affirmative Action at work. The world has gone nuts. And the top 6% of the dumbass communities are now everyone's boss.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
The right balance
()
Date: March 31, 2019 09:57PM
DesignFlaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All good intentions, I agree, but this is simple:
> what you described is fundamentally unfair. You
> are advocating for the dumbing down of society.
I am not advocating for the dumbing down of society. I am advocating for a system which gives a broader range of students the opportunity to rise to the top or sink to the bottom based on current drive and abilities. You on the other hand are advocating for a system which shields advantaged students from having to compete one on one with students from less advantaged backgrounds on a level playing field. In sports terms what I advocate for is something like the NCAA basketball tournament. You are advocating for something like the NCAA football playoff that all but eliminates schools that are not from a handful of favored conferences.
If the top 6% from the dumbass communities are your boss, perhaps you should be asking what it is that you lack that let them get ahead of you. You might discover they developed abilities in having to live in those dumbass communities which might have better prepared them for the working world than your more privileged upbringing provided you.
-------------------------------------------------------
> All good intentions, I agree, but this is simple:
> what you described is fundamentally unfair. You
> are advocating for the dumbing down of society.
I am not advocating for the dumbing down of society. I am advocating for a system which gives a broader range of students the opportunity to rise to the top or sink to the bottom based on current drive and abilities. You on the other hand are advocating for a system which shields advantaged students from having to compete one on one with students from less advantaged backgrounds on a level playing field. In sports terms what I advocate for is something like the NCAA basketball tournament. You are advocating for something like the NCAA football playoff that all but eliminates schools that are not from a handful of favored conferences.
If the top 6% from the dumbass communities are your boss, perhaps you should be asking what it is that you lack that let them get ahead of you. You might discover they developed abilities in having to live in those dumbass communities which might have better prepared them for the working world than your more privileged upbringing provided you.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
WrongBalance
()
Date: April 01, 2019 09:56AM
The right balance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DesignFlaw Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All good intentions, I agree, but this is
> simple:
> > what you described is fundamentally unfair.
> You
> > are advocating for the dumbing down of society.
>
> I am not advocating for the dumbing down of
> society. I am advocating for a system which gives
> a broader range of students the opportunity to
> rise to the top or sink to the bottom based on
> current drive and abilities. You on the other
> hand are advocating for a system which shields
> advantaged students from having to compete one on
> one with students from less advantaged backgrounds
> on a level playing field. In sports terms what I
> advocate for is something like the NCAA basketball
> tournament. You are advocating for something like
> the NCAA football playoff that all but eliminates
> schools that are not from a handful of favored
> conferences.
>
> If the top 6% from the dumbass communities are
> your boss, perhaps you should be asking what it is
> that you lack that let them get ahead of you. You
> might discover they developed abilities in having
> to live in those dumbass communities which might
> have better prepared them for the working world
> than your more privileged upbringing provided you.
It is abundantly clear that it is the wrong balance. The pendulum has swung much too far to the left, and has been pushed farther to the left by victim-based and identity- politics, and continues to do so (...moving even farther to the left), to absurd results.
It's only when Asian Americans at Harvard said, "wait a minute!" has the process gotten some minor legal and political scrutiny. On the other hand, a couple of hundred students from uber wealthy backgrounds have rightfully been busted for cheating or buying their way into college (not news there either) -- but those included rich white, black (including Dr Dre, etc), Hispanic, and Asian families, i.e., Green/$$$, people -- gaming the system; but the lack of proper scrutiny on the tens of thousands (or more) displaced in the name of "leveling the playing field" (again, good intentions) is, again, systematically and fundamental unfair and unjust.
Asian Americans and white working class are hurt the most. White working class have no voice, no advocacy. They're the ones who are really screwed in this "leveling the playing field" scheme gone awry. Race (or gender) shouldn't be major considerations in admission and employment -- we're all Americans. Correcting past biases with new biases is plain wrong.
As far as the 6% from non achieving communities, they NEVER "sink" because, again, of race- (and gender- and "handicapped [e.g., stupid kids taking untimed tests because they're disabled - pleeeeeze]) based on their protected class. If they "sink," heeeeel-o EEO. If one scrutinized their work or if they don't get the job/promotion, heeeeeel-o EEO. This pattern has been evolving for decades. Affirmative Action and EEO and loony left politics have fed into this nonsense. SCAM.
Another scam: look at the rows of handicapped license plates and handicapped cards at any parking lot. The Metro has the same row of these "handicapped" bullshitters who get priority parking who are NOT handicapped -- running to the train because they're late. Don't give me the BS that "some handicapped conditions cannot be seen" nonsense. SCAM.
Another scam: Students taking untimed SAT/LSAT/GMAT. Get diagnosis, and get free time on standardized scores. SCAM.
YET ANOTHER SCAM: COmfort animals on planes (or wherever). Comfort animals are NOT service animals (e.g., blind).
We have become a country of scammers who are supported by markedly undeserved political and legal protections.
Bottomline: You are not advocating for a level playing field for anyone regardless of your good intentions.
I won't respond to your cheap, meritless ad hominem attack(s).
-------------------------------------------------------
> DesignFlaw Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All good intentions, I agree, but this is
> simple:
> > what you described is fundamentally unfair.
> You
> > are advocating for the dumbing down of society.
>
> I am not advocating for the dumbing down of
> society. I am advocating for a system which gives
> a broader range of students the opportunity to
> rise to the top or sink to the bottom based on
> current drive and abilities. You on the other
> hand are advocating for a system which shields
> advantaged students from having to compete one on
> one with students from less advantaged backgrounds
> on a level playing field. In sports terms what I
> advocate for is something like the NCAA basketball
> tournament. You are advocating for something like
> the NCAA football playoff that all but eliminates
> schools that are not from a handful of favored
> conferences.
>
> If the top 6% from the dumbass communities are
> your boss, perhaps you should be asking what it is
> that you lack that let them get ahead of you. You
> might discover they developed abilities in having
> to live in those dumbass communities which might
> have better prepared them for the working world
> than your more privileged upbringing provided you.
It is abundantly clear that it is the wrong balance. The pendulum has swung much too far to the left, and has been pushed farther to the left by victim-based and identity- politics, and continues to do so (...moving even farther to the left), to absurd results.
It's only when Asian Americans at Harvard said, "wait a minute!" has the process gotten some minor legal and political scrutiny. On the other hand, a couple of hundred students from uber wealthy backgrounds have rightfully been busted for cheating or buying their way into college (not news there either) -- but those included rich white, black (including Dr Dre, etc), Hispanic, and Asian families, i.e., Green/$$$, people -- gaming the system; but the lack of proper scrutiny on the tens of thousands (or more) displaced in the name of "leveling the playing field" (again, good intentions) is, again, systematically and fundamental unfair and unjust.
Asian Americans and white working class are hurt the most. White working class have no voice, no advocacy. They're the ones who are really screwed in this "leveling the playing field" scheme gone awry. Race (or gender) shouldn't be major considerations in admission and employment -- we're all Americans. Correcting past biases with new biases is plain wrong.
As far as the 6% from non achieving communities, they NEVER "sink" because, again, of race- (and gender- and "handicapped [e.g., stupid kids taking untimed tests because they're disabled - pleeeeeze]) based on their protected class. If they "sink," heeeeel-o EEO. If one scrutinized their work or if they don't get the job/promotion, heeeeeel-o EEO. This pattern has been evolving for decades. Affirmative Action and EEO and loony left politics have fed into this nonsense. SCAM.
Another scam: look at the rows of handicapped license plates and handicapped cards at any parking lot. The Metro has the same row of these "handicapped" bullshitters who get priority parking who are NOT handicapped -- running to the train because they're late. Don't give me the BS that "some handicapped conditions cannot be seen" nonsense. SCAM.
Another scam: Students taking untimed SAT/LSAT/GMAT. Get diagnosis, and get free time on standardized scores. SCAM.
YET ANOTHER SCAM: COmfort animals on planes (or wherever). Comfort animals are NOT service animals (e.g., blind).
We have become a country of scammers who are supported by markedly undeserved political and legal protections.
Bottomline: You are not advocating for a level playing field for anyone regardless of your good intentions.
I won't respond to your cheap, meritless ad hominem attack(s).
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Dad_bod
()
Date: April 01, 2019 11:50AM
"Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone." Let's great real. Cheating goes far beyond TJ. It happens from pre-K through post-grade. Given the recent news, some parents and some faculty will do whatever it takes (bribes) to cheat the system.
Time to move on.
My lamentation is that for all of its merits and flaws, parents and students should realize there is no TJ bounce. Graduating from TJ with great grades and test scores -- if you're not in the top 10-15% of your class -- may actually work against you.
For some, this is probably a nothing burger.
For others, it's just something to consider if your kid thinks about going to TJ or, if already there, moves toward graduation.
Time to move on.
My lamentation is that for all of its merits and flaws, parents and students should realize there is no TJ bounce. Graduating from TJ with great grades and test scores -- if you're not in the top 10-15% of your class -- may actually work against you.
For some, this is probably a nothing burger.
For others, it's just something to consider if your kid thinks about going to TJ or, if already there, moves toward graduation.
Re: TJ surprise (one parent's lamentation)
Posted by:
Orclaim
()
Date: April 01, 2019 11:56AM
Dad_bod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone." Let's great
> real. Cheating goes far beyond TJ. It happens from
> pre-K through post-grade. Given the recent news,
> some parents and some faculty will do whatever it
> takes (bribes) to cheat the system.
>
> Time to move on.
>
> My lamentation is that for all of its merits and
> flaws, parents and students should realize there
> is no TJ bounce. Graduating from TJ with great
> grades and test scores -- if you're not in the top
> 10-15% of your class -- may actually work against
> you.
>
> For some, this is probably a nothing burger.
>
> For others, it's just something to consider if
> your kid thinks about going to TJ or, if already
> there, moves toward graduation.
... or move into a less affluent community and claim (a-la Sen. Warren) a protected class so your child gets into an Ivy League school instead of being denied from or wait-listed at a third-tier school. Hey I "identify" as X (fill in so-called protected class)...
OMG -- don't we, as a society, have to right-side & "level the playing field"?! Yeah, right, level the playing field....
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Everyone cheats at TJ. Everyone." Let's great
> real. Cheating goes far beyond TJ. It happens from
> pre-K through post-grade. Given the recent news,
> some parents and some faculty will do whatever it
> takes (bribes) to cheat the system.
>
> Time to move on.
>
> My lamentation is that for all of its merits and
> flaws, parents and students should realize there
> is no TJ bounce. Graduating from TJ with great
> grades and test scores -- if you're not in the top
> 10-15% of your class -- may actually work against
> you.
>
> For some, this is probably a nothing burger.
>
> For others, it's just something to consider if
> your kid thinks about going to TJ or, if already
> there, moves toward graduation.
... or move into a less affluent community and claim (a-la Sen. Warren) a protected class so your child gets into an Ivy League school instead of being denied from or wait-listed at a third-tier school. Hey I "identify" as X (fill in so-called protected class)...
OMG -- don't we, as a society, have to right-side & "level the playing field"?! Yeah, right, level the playing field....