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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:08PM

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Minor correction - which I'm surprised the
> pro-bad-kid folks haven't noted yet - you are not
> agreeing to anything when you sign off on the SR&R
> - you are simply noting that you have received it.

I think noting you received it and sending your kid to the school anyway constitutes agreement with the policies as laid out in the SR&R. What kind of shitty, self-righteous parent would say, "I don't agree with these school policies, but I'm going to send my kid there anyway under the assumption they don't apply to us?"

Oh, right. The type of parents arguing about it in this thread.

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Incorrect - the bad kids are the ones who take
> that smoking et al to school, as noted many many
> times on this and other similar threads.
>
> That's one of the major problems with the
> pro-bad-kids folks - they LITERALLY do not
> understand what's going on.

You beat me to it. I highly doubt any of the losers in this thread are going to be the next Obama or Phelps anyway. Just another excuse to say why the rules shouldn't apply to them.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:09PM

Vert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Incorrect - the "bad kids" are the ones who get
> caught whereas the "good kids" don't get caught,
> as noted many, many, many, many, many, many many
> times on this and other similar threads.

Ok, let's not call them "good kids" and "bad kids."

Let's call them "smart kids" and "stupid kids." The smart ones don't get caught and the stupid ones do.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:12PM

Vert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Minor correction - which I'm surprised the
> phony-holier-than-thou-hypocrites-with bad-kids
> turds haven't noted yet - you are agreeing to the
> terms when you sign off on the SR&R - you are
> simply noting that you have received it.

I have a hard time parsing this one, but I would suggest reading the sign-off form to see what you are signing off on when you sign it!

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Toopl ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:14PM

Ok, let's not call them "good kids" and "bad kids."

Let's call them "smart kids" and "stupid kids." The smart get caught and the stupid ones do too.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Vert ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:15PM

Parental Opinion wrote

"I have a hard time parsing this one, but I would suggest reading the sign-off form to see what you are signing off on when you sign it!"

I have a hard time parsing this one, but I would suggest reading the sign-off form to see what you are signing off on when you sign it! Moron

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:19PM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, let's not call them "good kids" and "bad
> kids."
>
> Let's call them "smart kids" and "stupid kids."
> The smart ones don't get caught and the stupid
> ones do.

I've been pretty consistent using the terms "good" and "bad" to emphasize the plain fact that the "bad"/"stupid" kids (and, indirectly, their parents) have done something that is potentially harmful to the "good"/"smart"/"not yet bad" kids and THAT is why the well-documented corrective measures were/are being taken against them.

We have a bunch of crap threads and posts about suicides, etc that consistently blame the school system for, IMHO, something the school system is not to blame for. By pointing out EXPLICITLY that the kids being corrected did something WRONG by using the word "bad", I'm trying to keep the discussion minimally evenhanded.

It should also be stressed over and over again that the "bad" kids are a mere handful compared to the "good" kids and it is the GOOD kids who need protection from the bad kids by the school system and it is from the GOOD kids POV that we should be addressing this subject across all the threads.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Moony ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:22PM

ROFLMAO! a POSTER CHILD "BAD-KID"

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:23PM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think noting you received it and sending your
> kid to the school anyway constitutes agreement
> with the policies as laid out in the SR&R.

Though we're on the same side of the fence on this general topic I, not a lawyer but wouldn't mind playing one on TV, would humbly disagree with you on that particular point.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Muty ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:26PM

Holy Smokes! Look at that! Obama knew, I mean he KNEW, the smoking pot is EXPLICITLY against the law, And he did it anyway! Bad Bad kid! He is the kind the other students needed to be protected from. Gonna look for that photo of Michael Phelps lightin it up.

rofl

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:30PM

BTW - I was going to copy-n-paste the actual SR&R words (a-GAIN) but it appears the most recent version of Adobe Reader breaks with that PDF (and some others)!

So read it with an earlier version - or something else!

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/ips/ssaw/SRNR/index.htm

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:34PM

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Though we're on the same side of the fence on this
> general topic I, not a lawyer but wouldn't mind
> playing one on TV, would humbly disagree with you
> on that particular point.

I look at it like this: if I turn on the stove and it gets red hot, I'm not agreeing to let it burn me if I use it. But, if I stick my hand on it and it burns me, I'm not going to blame the stove.

For the rest of the chuckling morons pointing to our current president's drug use three decades ago... please keep in mind that he used drugs in a time when Virginia schools were still allowed to use corporal punishment. If Obama's drug use back then makes it OK to take drugs to school today, then let's reinstate corporal punishment, too.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Blarney ()
Date: April 06, 2011 05:39PM

Yup, let's bring back corporal punishment, and then prohibit interracial marriages too. what a phukkin moron.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: April 06, 2011 07:28PM

Blarney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yup, let's bring back corporal punishment, and
> then prohibit interracial marriages too. what a
> phukkin moron.


---------------------------------------------
just to help you out, bro.......................

sar·casm [sahr-kaz-uhm] –noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Ann ()
Date: April 13, 2011 02:56PM

You are an idiot. I am a member of FZTR, yet my child has never been in trouble one moment of his 11 years in FCPS schools. I am, however, a believer in the most fundamental tenets on which this country was founded (by my ancestors, by the way, who arrived in 1637). FCPS treats children like criminals. If they want to treat kids like criminals, they should allow the criminal justice system to take care of them when they break the rules. Why don't they? Because they know that the "outside" system will allow a child who's a first offender on marijuana possession to get off with a fine and drug treatment. They know that assault charges almost never stick in a real court of law (having served jury four times, I can tell you this is true). They also know that the courts would make kids and their parents clean up and repair vandalism, require some community service, and take other steps that are far less draconian than those taken by the schools.
And the schools want to punish. They do not want to teach right and wrong. Unlike our courts, which reflect our community standards, school principals adhere to ridiculous concepts that no longer reflect our community values and our ideas on how best to raise children.

So, Mephisto, you are wrong on so many counts, but suffice it to say that many of us who have good kids are also really pissed at the system and are doing our best to change it.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Ann ()
Date: April 13, 2011 03:11PM

DO NOT SIGN THE SR&R! It is used against you in any discipline hearing. Your signed page is brought out, and you are accused of blatantly violating the rules to which you agreed. Of course, you do not say that you agree with it when you sign it. You merely acknowledge it. But that's not how it gets twisted during hearings.
DO NOT SIGN IT! Let them come after you. Currently, the penalty is a $50 fine. Shit. Pay the fine. DO NOT SIGN IT! We need thousands of families to refuse to sign it so they have to involve PARENTS and COMMUNITY MEMBERS when they draft the new ones.
DO NOT SIGN IT!

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Roman Perederiy ()
Date: April 13, 2011 03:49PM

I feel like this whole thing is just NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!
Teachers go around the halls feeling the word "fuck" and many other "curse" words.But when a snitch tells a teacher because one kid used the work ass in the the sentance BOOM he's suspended!
After lunch my friends and I were talking about acne. I we went up to a sophmore and i asked her " is my ass smoother than my face?" meaning do i have acne. The student told and i got suspended! BOOM. UNFAIRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!UNFAIR!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!UNFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Roman Perederiy ()
Date: April 13, 2011 03:53PM

Roman Perederiy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel like this whole thing is just NOT
> FAIR!!!!!!!!!
> Teachers go around the halls feeling the word
> "fuck" and many other "curse" words.But when a
> snitch tells a teacher because one kid used the
> work ass in the the sentance BOOM he's suspended!
> After lunch my friends and I were talking about
> acne. I we went up to a sophmore and i asked her "
> is my ass smoother than my face?" meaning do i
> have acne. The student told and i got suspended!
> BOOM.
> UNFAIRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!UNFAIR!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!UNFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 13, 2011 05:36PM

El. Oh. El.

Ann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are an idiot.

*cracks knuckles*

> I am a member of FZTR, yet my
> child has never been in trouble one moment of his
> 11 years in FCPS schools. I am, however, a
> believer in the most fundamental tenets on which
> this country was founded (by my ancestors, by the
> way, who arrived in 1637)
.

And what would those be? The forceful conquest of a native population? Imperialist expansion by Great Britain under the economic theory of mercantilism? Growing tobacco as a cash crop for export to Europe? The utilization of slave labor to maximize profit for wealthy land owners? The Puritan desire to reform the Church of England?

Your 1637 ancestors who founded this country certainly didn't give two shits about the FCPS Zero Tolerance policy, so I'd love to know where the hell you're coming from with that.

> FCPS treats children like criminals.

Only the bad ones.

> If they want to treat kids like
> criminals, they should allow the criminal justice
> system to take care of them when they break the
> rules. Why don't they? Because they know that
> the "outside" system will allow a child who's a
> first offender on marijuana possession to get off
> with a fine and drug treatment. They know that
> assault charges almost never stick in a real court
> of law (having served jury four times, I can tell
> you this is true). They also know that the courts
> would make kids and their parents clean up and
> repair vandalism, require some community service,
> and take other steps that are far less draconian
> than those taken by the schools.

Wait, wait, wait. You're calling me an idiot, but you're suggesting that kids be held to the same legal standards as adults?

So, when your precious snowflake gets caught with marijuana, who's going to pay the fine? You want your child to go to drug rehab with a bunch of adult junkies? What happens if he gets caught with a harder drug that merits jail time? Do you want your kid going to jail with a bunch of adult convicts?

While we're at it, let's let them drink, smoke, drive, buy guns, and vote, too.

> And the schools want to punish. They do not want
> to teach right and wrong. Unlike our courts,
> which reflect our community standards, school
> principals adhere to ridiculous concepts that no
> longer reflect our community values and our ideas
> on how best to raise children.

Bullshit. The courts reflect the laws that are passed at the state or federal level. If I got caught with drugs or a gun on school property, I don't have the option of transferring to another school; I'd have to pay some lawyer a shitload of money to try to keep me out of prison.

> So, Mephisto, you are wrong on so many counts, but
> suffice it to say that many of us who have good
> kids are also really pissed at the system and are
> doing our best to change it.

Well, thank the gods we have geniuses like you hard at work on this. Have you thought about taking your revolt to the next level and starting an online petition?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: logicaldog ()
Date: April 14, 2011 05:00AM

Mr Mephisto: You really don't seem to grasp this problem at all. Until you experience it you won't. Read my lips: it isn't getting caught with drugs, skipping school, bringing weapons-the issues that you cite at all. I have been working in and out of this system for many years. You need to actually understand and read. The kids who are caught up in this have done nothing, and I mean, NOTHING, repeat after me-NOTHING WRONG. The parents have done nothing WRONG. GET IT???? Let me put it in terms you might understand: it is as if you had a job (I am assuming that you have some kind of job where you are completely complaint, as that seems to be your personality), probably working for govt or something. You are talking to a couple of your cohorts, (who are similarly complaint), and one of them says something about a TV show they saw last night (maybe CSI Miami), where there was some incident of violence that your very compliant, nonweapon totting, non drug dealing cohort, was watching. They tell you about the episode-you are enthralled because, lets face it, you have nothing interesting in your life...a supervisor overhears the conversation and you are fired because you were standing there listening. No process, no opportunity to explain or get a lawyer. You lose your wife (who is similarly complaint), and your house. GET IT???

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Gordon Blvd ()
Date: April 14, 2011 06:39AM

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr Mephisto: You really don't seem to grasp this
> problem at all. Until you experience it you won't.
> Read my lips: it isn't getting caught with drugs,
> skipping school, bringing weapons-the issues that
> you cite at all. I have been working in and out of
> this system for many years. You need to actually
> understand and read. The kids who are caught up in
> this have done nothing, and I mean, NOTHING,
> repeat after me-NOTHING WRONG. The parents have
> done nothing WRONG. GET IT???? Let me put it in
> terms you might understand: it is as if you had a
> job (I am assuming that you have some kind of job
> where you are completely complaint, as that seems
> to be your personality), probably working for govt
> or something. You are talking to a couple of your
> cohorts, (who are similarly complaint), and one of
> them says something about a TV show they saw last
> night (maybe CSI Miami), where there was some
> incident of violence that your very compliant,
> nonweapon totting, non drug dealing cohort, was
> watching. They tell you about the episode-you are
> enthralled because, lets face it, you have nothing
> interesting in your life...a supervisor overhears
> the conversation and you are fired because you
> were standing there listening. No process, no
> opportunity to explain or get a lawyer. You lose
> your wife (who is similarly complaint), and your
> house. GET IT???
--------------------------------------------------
cause, as we all know, Mr Mephisto - kids getting caught with drugs, skipping school, bringing weapons on campus is "NOTHING, repeat after me,-NOTHING" ;)

hey legaldog!! - getting suspended from school isnt the same as getting fired

and aint no kid in America gonna say that school is equal to a wife or a house
no way, NO HOW

ROFLMAO

logical is just a lawyer wanting to sue the school system so dont buy his crap, Mr Mephisto. Most kids would know not to talk about such things around teachers the dont trust, anyhow - same as adults would know not to talk about controversial things at work in earshot of ppl who would eff with them, their careers and futures.

and no kid has lost their HOUSE or FAMILY because of FCPS - that's a buncha bullsheet in yr example there, logical(allegedly)dog



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2011 06:42AM by Gordon Blvd.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: logicaldog ()
Date: April 14, 2011 07:22AM

I'm not a lawyer, heres how it goes, once again, listen carefully - because one day if society has to live through you personally reproducing heres what you will have to deal with- your kid gets caught, and I mean- DOING NOTHING< can be an honor student, can be from a good home (however you, in your parenting wisdom define that), good grades, lots of extracurriculars, lots of talent, well adjusted, no problems, lots of friends, no drugs, votes with the teaparty...whatever you need to satisfy your odd preconceptions of what a good kid is: all applies because all that has to happen is you are standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. PARENTS lose their homes, it happens ALOT, because they have to hire expensive lawyers to fight FCPS who have a whole cadre of lawyers standing by, on retainer (read "FREE") to fight against good kids and their parent who have, once again, I will say it slowly so that you might really get it this time, DONE NOTHING. It is North Korea, it is communist China-(here maybe you can equate this- San Francisco), you lose your house to pay the legal fees, in addition you have to provide transportation because they move your kid to another school so you can't keep you job. Jeez what kind of slow are you????

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Ikon ()
Date: April 14, 2011 11:06AM

Good luck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The dropout rate for school year 2007-08 was 1.5
> percent.
>
>
>
> The new four-year Virginia on-time graduation rate
>
> > for Fairfax County was 91.2 percent for 2008
> high
> > school graduates.
>
>
> Ask yourself how there can be this discrepancy.
> Why is there a 7.3% discrepancy between these two
> statements. If 1.5 percent drop out, why is the
> graduation rate 91.2%?
>
> My "guess" is that the first statement is the
> "drop out rate" for the class of 2007-2008 for the
> senior year (I may be wrong, but this might make
> sense). The second statement is the so called
> "non graduation" rate for the whole 4 years that
> the class of 2008 was in high school. I would be
> very surprised if 7.3% of the senior class
> suddenly "dropped out" or could not graduate their
> senior year. This would be very unusual IMO. If
> someone wants to call it a "non graduation" rate
> instead of a "drop out" rate, that is their
> perogative. What we then need to know is how many
> graduate in 5 years or 6 years. The whole thing
> is not very easy to figure out from the data given
> on that web page. Why would the "drop out rate"
> be different from the "non graduation rate"? By a
> factor of over 4? That needs to be explained.
>
> You need to think about this stuff and ask
> questions. It needs to be better expalined.


No.
The dropout rate is the dropout rate of all students. The non-graduation rate is for students that take more than four years to graduate. These are mainly special education or English as second language students, which often take longer to matriculate.

I know this because I'm an FCPS employee (teacher) and regularly deal with this data.

As for the Zero-Tolerance Policy in general; it isn't perfect. Its intention is to create a safe environment for all of our children; and if they fall into something that is dangerous or disruptive expulsion is meant to separate them from contributing factors.

It doesn't always work, mainly because administrators are fearful of lawsuits. However, in most of the cases that have been listed in this discussion, such as possession of an illegal or controlled substance it is completely justified. Expulsion is not jail time, it is a learning tool. But yes, we do need to work out the kinks, mainly because the kinks aren't just statistics they are kids.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 14, 2011 11:15AM

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr Mephisto: You really don't seem to grasp this
> problem at all. Until you experience it you won't.
> Read my lips: it isn't getting caught with drugs,
> skipping school, bringing weapons-the issues that
> you cite at all. I have been working in and out of
> this system for many years. You need to actually
> understand and read. The kids who are caught up in
> this have done nothing, and I mean, NOTHING,
> repeat after me-NOTHING WRONG. The parents have
> done nothing WRONG. GET IT???? Let me put it in
> terms you might understand: it is as if you had a
> job (I am assuming that you have some kind of job
> where you are completely complaint, as that seems
> to be your personality), probably working for govt
> or something. You are talking to a couple of your
> cohorts, (who are similarly complaint), and one of
> them says something about a TV show they saw last
> night (maybe CSI Miami), where there was some
> incident of violence that your very compliant,
> nonweapon totting, non drug dealing cohort, was
> watching. They tell you about the episode-you are
> enthralled because, lets face it, you have nothing
> interesting in your life...a supervisor overhears
> the conversation and you are fired because you
> were standing there listening. No process, no
> opportunity to explain or get a lawyer. You lose
> your wife (who is similarly complaint), and your
> house. GET IT???

Weird. All the hot-button cases have involved drugs, weapons, or violence, and not discussion of a TV show the student saw last night.

Zero Tolerance exists because people like you have been telling kids it's not their fault when they fuck up. Period.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: doggie logic ()
Date: April 14, 2011 11:31AM

yeah, that's the problem with this argument. The continual bringing up of technicality rule breakers to excuse dopers.

Plus moving schools is scarcely a punishment. You have the right to an education, not this or that schhol. for every kid that gets bounced out of mclean there are probably 10 non-druggies who want to be pupil placed there.

Is this because the teachers are so much better? not likely, they're hired by the same people as at other schools. Its the peer group-motivated, with involveed parents, and not given to crime. No one is "entitled" to a peer group. If anything, its the kid who hasn't done anything wrong that's "entitled" to be with similar kids.

Instead its continually presented as some draconian death penalty for a simple "mistake", because the parents and the students don't want the new peer group they've "earned".

If those who want to associate their kids who are really innocent, with similar kids, are really just abunch of naive goody two shoes, then why all the bitching?

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Ann ()
Date: April 14, 2011 12:58PM

You clearly have no idea what students are being expelled for. They are being expelled for pranks that involve baby oil. They are being expelled for graffiti. They are being expelled for spitballs through straws. It is by far NOT drugs, weapons, or bloody fights. It's normal kid shit.

I hope that Mephisto gets caught speeding in a neighborhood and I get to sit on the jury that's deciding his fate. Because in his case -- and we all know that we know who he is, just like principals who've never met a kid suddenly "knows" the kid when he attends a hearing and knows his entire personality and life story -- we will demand the death penalty for his infraction. After all, speeding kills, so he's committed attempted murder by speeding through a neighborhood full of children.

That's the kind of logic that FCPS uses when it deals with kids. If you speed, you must be trying to kill someone, therefore your punishment must fit your crime. Death by stoning, I say.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Ikon ()
Date: April 14, 2011 02:07PM

Ann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You clearly have no idea what students are being
> expelled for. They are being expelled for pranks
> that involve baby oil. They are being expelled
> for graffiti. They are being expelled for
> spitballs through straws. It is by far NOT drugs,
> weapons, or bloody fights. It's normal kid shit.


I see all of the suspensions and expulsions for three high schools for the past six years. While I have seen suspensions for stuff like that, of the things you have listed I have only seen expulsions over graffiti and it was usually pretty extreme graffiti either in content or property damage.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Parental Opinion ()
Date: April 14, 2011 02:11PM

Ikon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see all of the suspensions and expulsions for
> three high schools for the past six years. While I
> have seen suspensions for stuff like that, of the
> things you have listed I have only seen expulsions
> over graffiti and it was usually pretty extreme
> graffiti either in content or property damage.

Reality is not one of the FCPS-bashers' strong points; lies sound so much more convincing, especially when there is nothing to support a position against the school policy otherwise.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: kids are bad part one ()
Date: April 14, 2011 03:16PM

COLLINSVILLE, Ill. (AP) - A southwestern Illinois special-education teacher has been ousted after allegedly ordering students to remove their underwear to determine which child soiled his pants.
The Belleville News-Democrat reports that Collinsville’s school board voted Monday not to renew the contract of the unidentified Webster Elementary School teacher.
The newspaper reports a letter sent to parents this week indicated the teacher saw feces on the classroom floor March 30 and had each of the seven children go separately into a private bathroom stall and remove his or her underpants. The third and fourth graders then were told to put their clothes back on and exit the stall to show their underpants to the teacher.
The letter says the teacher was not ever present in the stall.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: kids are bad part two ()
Date: April 14, 2011 03:18PM

HARRIMAN - A Roane County kindergarten teacher who reportedly told students to encircle a classmate, call him a pig and make pig noises because the boy is messy, received a one-day unpaid suspension and had a letter of reprimand placed in her file.
The incident involved Debbie Hayes, an educator at Bowers Elementary School who has taught kindergarten in Roane County for 38 years.
Dr. Toni H. McGriff, director of Roane County Schools, called the March 16 incident "simply unbelievable."
In her reprimand letter, McGriff told Hayes she was "appalled with the actions in this situation.''
"It's a black eye on the profession,'' McGriff said Monday. "It's a black eye on our schools.''
Another educator walked into Hayes' classroom March 16 and saw kindergartners encircling their crying classmate.
"The students in the circle were 'oinking' and making pig sounds at the little boy,'' the reprimand states.
The educator who witnessed the incident told Principal Candace Lett that afternoon. Hayes and Lett met the next day in McGriff's office to discuss the episode.
During that meeting, Hayes said she was "tired of the student's messiness," according to the reprimand.
Hayes, according to the letter, had repeatedly warned the child to be neater but on March 16 told him, "Your area looks like a pig sty. Oink. Oink."
Students in the classroom told authorities that Hayes told them to encircle the child "and call him a pig and make pig noises," according to the reprimand.
Hayes in the meeting told McGriff she didn't notice the children had begun the taunting, "but did agree that it was inappropriate," the letter states.
McGriff on Monday said she didn't have "any reason to believe it was the entire class" involved in the episode.
"To have this happen is simply unbelievable and undermines everything we try to teach children about how to treat each other," the reprimand letter states.
Hayes' one-day suspension from her job, which pays $44,283 annually, went into effect March 18.
McGriff in the reprimand told Hayes she would be allowed to report to her classroom that morning and apologize to the students.
"Hopefully, a heartfelt apology will have some mitigating effect on the damage that was done," McGriff's letter states. McGriff on Monday said she assumed the apology was given.
McGriff said other parents have complained about Hayes' classroom behavior "over the last couple of years." Those gripes, McGriff said, "were not all of the same nature."
Other than the reprimand, the only other document in the veteran teacher's personnel file is her employment application. She transferred to the Roane County School System from the now-defunct Harriman City School System in April 2003.
Hayes had five days to respond to the reprimand letter and initially indicated she planned to do so, McGriff said. No response, however, was submitted, she said.
McGriff said the school principal offered to transfer the child who was taunted to another classroom, but the mother declined.
Efforts to contact the mother were unsuccessful.
Hayes didn't respond to inquiries seeking comment.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: shameful ()
Date: April 15, 2011 02:10PM

kids are bad part two Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HARRIMAN - A Roane County kindergarten teacher who
> reportedly told students to encircle a classmate,
> call him a pig and make pig noises because the boy
> is messy, received a one-day unpaid suspension and
> had a letter of reprimand placed in her file.
> The incident involved Debbie Hayes, an educator at
> Bowers Elementary School who has taught
> kindergarten in Roane County for 38 years.
> Dr. Toni H. McGriff, director of Roane County
> Schools, called the March 16 incident "simply
> unbelievable."
> In her reprimand letter, McGriff told Hayes she
> was "appalled with the actions in this
> situation.''
> "It's a black eye on the profession,'' McGriff
> said Monday. "It's a black eye on our schools.''
> Another educator walked into Hayes' classroom
> March 16 and saw kindergartners encircling their
> crying classmate.
> "The students in the circle were 'oinking' and
> making pig sounds at the little boy,'' the
> reprimand states.
> The educator who witnessed the incident told
> Principal Candace Lett that afternoon. Hayes and
> Lett met the next day in McGriff's office to
> discuss the episode.
> During that meeting, Hayes said she was "tired of
> the student's messiness," according to the
> reprimand.
> Hayes, according to the letter, had repeatedly
> warned the child to be neater but on March 16 told
> him, "Your area looks like a pig sty. Oink.
> Oink."
> Students in the classroom told authorities that
> Hayes told them to encircle the child "and call
> him a pig and make pig noises," according to the
> reprimand.
> Hayes in the meeting told McGriff she didn't
> notice the children had begun the taunting, "but
> did agree that it was inappropriate," the letter
> states.
> McGriff on Monday said she didn't have "any reason
> to believe it was the entire class" involved in
> the episode.
> "To have this happen is simply unbelievable and
> undermines everything we try to teach children
> about how to treat each other," the reprimand
> letter states.
> Hayes' one-day suspension from her job, which pays
> $44,283 annually, went into effect March 18.
> McGriff in the reprimand told Hayes she would be
> allowed to report to her classroom that morning
> and apologize to the students.
> "Hopefully, a heartfelt apology will have some
> mitigating effect on the damage that was done,"
> McGriff's letter states. McGriff on Monday said
> she assumed the apology was given.
> McGriff said other parents have complained about
> Hayes' classroom behavior "over the last couple of
> years." Those gripes, McGriff said, "were not all
> of the same nature."
> Other than the reprimand, the only other document
> in the veteran teacher's personnel file is her
> employment application. She transferred to the
> Roane County School System from the now-defunct
> Harriman City School System in April 2003.
> Hayes had five days to respond to the reprimand
> letter and initially indicated she planned to do
> so, McGriff said. No response, however, was
> submitted, she said.
> McGriff said the school principal offered to
> transfer the child who was taunted to another
> classroom, but the mother declined.
> Efforts to contact the mother were unsuccessful.
> Hayes didn't respond to inquiries seeking comment.


SR&R Definition of Bullying: Physical or psychological harassment on the part of one or more students toward another.

If a student at FCPS had organized that, he/she would be looking at suspension (more than 1 day) and possibly expulsion. Too bad the students don't have a union to protect them like the teachers do.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: kaaat ()
Date: May 27, 2011 04:44PM

Tell your kids to (if they ever get into trouble for anything that could result in expulsion) provide a simple true verbal statement then say "I will not elaborate on my previous statement until my parents/guardians show up.". This will help prevent them from getting bullied into proclaiming their guilt if they are not guilty.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: DumbyUp ()
Date: May 27, 2011 04:46PM

kaaat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell your kids to (if they ever get into trouble
> for anything that could result in expulsion)
> provide a simple true verbal statement then say "I
> will not elaborate on my previous statement until
> my parents/guardians show up.". This will help
> prevent them from getting bullied into proclaiming
> their guilt if they are not guilty.

Lord! What has the world come to when we are telling our kids to "lawyer up" in school.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Zero Tolerance 4 Teachers ()
Date: May 27, 2011 04:48PM

We should apply Zero Tolerance to the two math teachers at Edison that participated at the WMZQ Festival, got drunk and used profanity around some of the their own students. About that?

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: robert ()
Date: June 07, 2011 07:51AM

i think the zero tolerence policy is way to harsh. it pretty much ripped apart my friend. he was an a-b student .. but ever since then hes been different. he said the hearing is sooooooooo hard and not fair. this should be held on a individual basis depending on the person not the book. so its zero intelligence

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Neighborsman ()
Date: June 08, 2011 10:10PM

If your willing to take drugs to school or alcohol you should get whats coming to you. Sorry im not sorry

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: anon ()
Date: June 08, 2011 10:31PM

discussions and decisions will be held tomorrow

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Bigdog ()
Date: June 10, 2011 07:28PM

Looks like the minority won out with the school board, conform to them or else. Don't worry your kids will learn from this that if u don't like the rules chanage them so whatever you were doing is legal with no punishment.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Frustrated Dad ()
Date: November 01, 2011 11:51AM

I live in PWC, my son attended Gainesville Middle School until October 7, at which point he was suspended pending an OSMAP Hearing. He was suspended for approaching two students who had lied to get him in trouble. The other students lies were verified by several impartial witnesses none of whom was ever questioned by the school administrator doing the investigation. The other students allege, and the school took their word over my son despite the fact that they had already lied to get him in trouble, that my son threatened to hurt them. It should also me noted that one of the students who lied about the initial incident and the alledged threat had been punished for bullying my son last year. There were no weapons involved, no physical contact made and no further action from my son. The OSMAP hearing officer found in favor of the school, disregarding all evidence presented, including character references, eye witness statements verifying my son's story and a letter from a therapist who has seen my son regularly because of the bullying he has been subjected to.

My son has been referred to an "alternate" school stating that he is a danger to the school building, the students and the teachers despite the fact that an independant threat assessment stated that he was not a threat to either himself or others. My son has been out of school for nearly a month and will remain out of school for at least another 45 days pending an appeal. If we do not appeal he will be put in the alternative education facility where he will be at the mercy and influence of children who have committed serious offenses including actual weapons charges, drug offenses and the like.

These types of stories are becoming more common than ever before and we are robbing the futures of innocent children of all races and back grounds due to minor transgressions and lapses in judgement. The law allows for due process and other civil rights which are not adhered to by the schools in the name of "safety". The law understands that children and minors sometimes make minor mistakes, but the schools do not tollerate lapses in judgement that harm no one. Instead the schools assign harsh punishments with wanton disregard for the long term well being of children. To make matters worse, they do so with impunity and the administrators do so with qualified immunity from civil and criminal prosecution regardless of their failings during the investigation of the offense.

Something must be done to end zero tolerance in our schools and put common sense, sane judgement and proper punishment back into our school system before any more children are robbed of a future.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: hadenuf ()
Date: November 01, 2011 01:05PM

If we can get rid of the lawyers who file suits over discrimination, the zero tolerance policy would be gone. If you want each student to be judged as individuals and each situation to be judged separately, bar the ridiculous lawyers who make huge bucks suing the county.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: you are idiots ()
Date: November 01, 2011 01:09PM

the county brings on the lawsuits waged against it putting students and parents in situations over absolutely nothing (and I mean nothing) where parents have to sell their houses to pay for attorneys so that FCPS doesn't ruin their lives. It isn't the other way around because FCPS has a huge team of lawyers on retainer making it possible to fight constantly and win when they commit attrocities.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: beenthere ()
Date: November 01, 2011 01:13PM

The only money "Education Lawyers" might receive is from the parents. The County is well insulated from being sued. And when a teacher/employee's actions are in doubt (think Sean Lanigan) they are thrown to the wind to defend themselves.

When my kids were in school, I worried more about them being bullied by Administration than I did from other kids. That is the real elephant in the room on the "bullying" issue.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: you are idiots ()
Date: November 01, 2011 05:09PM

beenthere: correct, and you should live in fear of administration...

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: November 01, 2011 05:26PM

beenthere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only money "Education Lawyers" might receive
> is from the parents. The County is well insulated
> from being sued. And when a teacher/employee's
> actions are in doubt (think Sean Lanigan) they are
> thrown to the wind to defend themselves.
>
> When my kids were in school, I worried more about
> them being bullied by Administration than I did
> from other kids. That is the real elephant in the
> room on the "bullying" issue.



+1000

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: so right ()
Date: November 01, 2011 05:31PM

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> beenthere Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The only money "Education Lawyers" might
> receive
> > is from the parents. The County is well
> insulated
> > from being sued. And when a teacher/employee's
> > actions are in doubt (think Sean Lanigan) they
> are
> > thrown to the wind to defend themselves.
> >
> > When my kids were in school, I worried more
> about
> > them being bullied by Administration than I did
> > from other kids. That is the real elephant in
> the
> > room on the "bullying" issue.
>
>
> +1000

+1. The tactics used by teachers and administrators to get their way and stifle any dissent certainly amounts to bullying. You are either on the bus or under it at FCPS.

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: you are idiots ()
Date: November 02, 2011 01:38PM

+2000000000

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Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: john y ()
Date: January 08, 2013 08:13AM

There will be a real witch hunt for kids as a result of misguided response to the Conn shootings. A kid at Robinson was overheard talking about Call of Duty and "shooting zombies". What would the percentage of male children in 7-12th grade be where this would be part of a normal conversation? probably nearly 100%. Kid was turned in, suspended and now in a heap of trouble over NOTHING. This will do nothing to prevent mass shootings, in fact, will go a long way to cause them. When will FCPS create a real environment for emotional safety not just be reactive? Rhetorical question, answer:NEVER.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Z3R0 ()
Date: January 08, 2013 10:14AM

john y Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There will be a real witch hunt for kids as a
> result of misguided response to the Conn
> shootings. A kid at Robinson was overheard talking
> about Call of Duty and "shooting zombies". What
> would the percentage of male children in 7-12th
> grade be where this would be part of a normal
> conversation? probably nearly 100%. Kid was turned
> in, suspended and now in a heap of trouble over
> NOTHING. This will do nothing to prevent mass
> shootings, in fact, will go a long way to cause
> them. When will FCPS create a real environment for
> emotional safety not just be reactive? Rhetorical
> question, answer:NEVER.


so how will suspending dipshit loud mouths cause more shootings? bcuz psycho kid will be set off from getting suspended? well then wouldn't they be right by assuming loud mouth kid was a threat? usually, it's the weird fuckers that get this treatment. instead of scouring cl for dicks to suck, you pussy dads should teach your pussy kids to be men. instead, you let them be lil dorks, get picked on and hold their dicks for them. most of the mentally fucked up kids these days are that way bcuz of you, the dumbass parents.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 10:15AM by Z3R0.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Zero-Tolerance Paragraph ()
Date: January 08, 2013 10:49AM

so how will suspending dipshit loud mouths cause more shootings? bcuz psycho kid will be set off from getting suspended? well then wouldn't they be right by assuming loud mouth kid was a threat? usually, it's the weird fuckers that get this treatment. instead of scouring cl for dicks to suck, you pussy dads should teach your pussy kids to be men. instead, you let them be lil dorks, get picked on and hold their dicks for them. most of the mentally fucked up kids these days are that way bcuz of you, the dumbass parents.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 10:15AM by Z3R0.



Hard to argue with wise logic like that....and you had to edit that mess twice to get that word salad? Please tell me you don't go to a Fairfax County school...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Z3R0 ()
Date: January 08, 2013 10:53AM

Zero-Tolerance Paragraph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so how will suspending dipshit loud mouths cause
> more shootings? bcuz psycho kid will be set off
> from getting suspended? well then wouldn't they be
> right by assuming loud mouth kid was a threat?
> usually, it's the weird fuckers that get this
> treatment. instead of scouring cl for dicks to
> suck, you pussy dads should teach your pussy kids
> to be men. instead, you let them be lil dorks, get
> picked on and hold their dicks for them. most of
> the mentally fucked up kids these days are that
> way bcuz of you, the dumbass parents.
>
>
>
> Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 10:15AM
> by Z3R0.
>
>
>
> Hard to argue with wise logic like that....and you
> had to edit that mess twice to get that word
> salad? Please tell me you don't go to a Fairfax
> County school...


edited to keep adding to it. i'm the english teacher. your son is a faggot.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Zero-Tolerance Paragraph ()
Date: January 08, 2013 11:48AM

i'm the english teacher. your son is a faggot.


My my, you are a brilliant little lad...please continue...and my son tells me you asked him out on a date, but he refused...that rejection must have hurt you very much.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: doubtful ()
Date: January 08, 2013 12:01PM

zero tolerance paragraph +++++1000000000

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: Z3R0 ()
Date: January 08, 2013 12:06PM

Zero-Tolerance Paragraph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i'm the english teacher. your son is a faggot.
>
>
> My my, you are a brilliant little lad...please
> continue...and my son tells me you asked him out
> on a date, but he refused...that rejection must
> have hurt you very much.


keep your pedo fantasy bullshit out of here, gayfag.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: true story? ()
Date: January 08, 2013 12:38PM

john y Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There will be a real witch hunt for kids as a
> result of misguided response to the Conn
> shootings. A kid at Robinson was overheard talking
> about Call of Duty and "shooting zombies". What
> would the percentage of male children in 7-12th
> grade be where this would be part of a normal
> conversation? probably nearly 100%. Kid was turned
> in, suspended and now in a heap of trouble over
> NOTHING. This will do nothing to prevent mass
> shootings, in fact, will go a long way to cause
> them. When will FCPS create a real environment for
> emotional safety not just be reactive? Rhetorical
> question, answer:NEVER.

I find it hard to believe that this really happened. Seriously?

A kid taks about a video game and is suspended for WHAT?

Call the Rutherford Institute---John Whithead if this really happened.

The First Amendment does exist--even in schools.

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