Feel free to post your opinions on Fairfax County's Zero-Tolerance Policy. Do you think it is fair? Or rather, do you believe that Zero-Tolerance begets 'Zero-Intelligence,'?

Everything should be dealt with on an individual basis. However, schools today are afraid of being sued for favoritism and bias, so a uniform standard of zero tolerance has been adopted.

I agree with your opinion. I see that you also posted on Michelle's Thread - Marijuana in School. What do you think about that situation? That's what compelled me to start this thread.

justice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with your opinion. I see that you also
> posted on Michelle's Thread - Marijuana in School.
> What do you think about that situation? That's
> what compelled me to start this thread.


I don't know what happened, but the other two girls who left beforehand need to be questioned; I wouldn't be surprised they had something to do with it as well.

What do I think happened? My scenario follows like this: Said females are taking bong hits out of the toilet. Either the other two girls who left had the weed and lighters or the remaining two girls were able to flush everything down the toilet except the bottle.

Either way, this incident needs to be further investigated, and if applicable, a ten day suspension is warranted if anyone involved has a previous disciplinary history w/ this type of incident.

Organized Chaos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what happened, but the other two
> girls who left beforehand need to be questioned; I
> wouldn't be surprised they had something to do
> with it as well.
>
> What do I think happened? My scenario follows like
> this: Said females are taking bong hits out of the
> toilet. Either the other two girls who left had
> the weed and lighters or the remaining two girls
> were able to flush everything down the toilet
> except the bottle.
>
> Either way, this incident needs to be further
> investigated, and if applicable, a ten day
> suspension is warranted if anyone involved has a
> previous disciplinary history w/ this type of
> incident.

Unfortunately, FCPS has a zero-tolerance policy. I don't doubt that both girls were suspended immediately, which seems to be the case. Regardless of priors, anyone suspected to be involved with illegal drug activity is instantly suspended. Hence; 'zero-tolerance'

Zero tolerance gives the impression of being fair to all, and it has the advantage for officials of being easy to enforce; every case is a black-or-white decision. The trouble is that the parents and officials who support zero tolerance are imposing a penalty with sometimes drastic consequence on the kids of people who have brains and who realize there has to be some leeway.
For fairness, what's needed is not zero tolerance, but a clear statement of infractions and penalties at different levels, which must be applied equally to all, whether their parents are doctors or cleaning ladies.

Google "Remembering Josh" and see what his parents are going through with this zero tolerance penalty. There is all kinds of links to this subject.

Sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Google "Remembering Josh" and see what his parents
> are going through with this zero tolerance
> penalty. There is all kinds of links to this
> subject.

In summary:

"Never, ever, in a million years would I guess what would transpire within two months. That Josh would smoke pot again, be caught at school which enforces a strict Zero-Tolerance policy, face expulsion, and choose to take his own life - the day before the School Board hearing."

Just say no.

sure kids do stupid things all the time. but if you look at the ss&r and the zero tolerance policy, all of this has to do with being on school grounds or during the school day. if some kid is so desperate to use during the school day, then they have a real problem and it needs to be addressed and being suspended is a wake up call to the parents. otherwise, these kids need to think before they use and stay off of school property while getting high. simple enough.

Sadder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Google "Remembering Josh" and see what his
> parents
> > are going through with this zero tolerance
> > penalty. There is all kinds of links to this
> > subject.
>
> In summary:
>
> "Never, ever, in a million years would I guess
> what would transpire within two months. That Josh
> would smoke pot again, be caught at school which
> enforces a strict Zero-Tolerance policy, face
> expulsion, and choose to take his own life - the
> day before the School Board hearing."
>
> Just say no.


i would kill myself if my parents named me josh too

Each case should be individually handled and parents should be the lead in any punsihment not the school, but since there are evidently parents who don't punish their kids for anything, FCPS picks up that slack for everyone. Parents are not consulted but informed of the FCPS after the fact.

My own child was punished at school for behavior that occured over a school break and not on school property and in no way associated with the school, but they made it their business when some busybody reported the rumors to administration. My own child was near someone who was arrested off school property and time- and was punished at school for being nearby.

So, I think FCPS bends over backwards to punish kids who may be considered innocent in any court of law. But there are no constitutional rights at FCPS. Read the Student R & R thoroughly - it is like some kind of feudal system.

My child passed all the drug & alcohol tests - but was still considered under the influence since he was near someone who was definitely guilty. By this definition, every student at school could be indicted daily since so many kids show up stoned or drunk for school or during school.

They treat teenage stupidity as a crime. I worry about this. When I was young and stupid I had a friend OD on alcohol that I helped to safety. Today, I would be punished for just being near a binge drinker. My friend probably would have died with my assistance. This is probably why that girl in Centreville OD on heroin and her boyfriend ended up in jail - he was too scared to call the parents or emergency services himself or he would take the blame for her heroin use, as he now ended up doing 20 years in jail anyway.

I think FCPS is being run like the Gestapo. I have known kids to be expelled for expressing ideas that are either violent or someway grotesque to most people - they are not ACTING upon these ideas, but the mere expression gets them expelled by the FCPS Thought Police. Someone like author Stephen King would never make it through FCPS today - yet the serial killer at Va Tech did get through FCPS despite well indentified problems. Go figure.

I think the whole system sucks and administration has taken several huge steps backwards in the last 20-30 years. The focus should be on education, not creating a police state.

And one more comment to anyone making a bong in a toilet - GROSS! You deserve whatever disease you get!!

Without zero tolerence power and money start to influence the decision making process.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Shut up Vince.
Without Zero Tolerance, lazy fucks like you would actually have to do some work.
Zero Tolerance is just EASIER to enforce and viewed as Fair to all. (actually it's for lazy public school employees who sit around just waiting for an early retirement buyout.)

The zero tolerance policy sounds good on paper, but it can potentially ruin a 15 or 16 year old's future. Honestly, how many of us are now the same person that we were back then, and how many mistakes did we make before we officially grew up?

Seriously, an adult male really becomes so at the age of 21, not 18 biologically speaking. Why slam a kid who makes a mistake, instead of trying to work with him or her first, before applying the foot up their ass? Just doesn't make sense.

Why is everyone so eager to let kids off when they make a mistake? Clearly, these girls made a mistake by smoking pot at school. Ok, so now they know their punishment. Just because kids are stupid and make mistakes, doesn't mean they shouldn't accept the consquences. That's how we learn. So, lesson 1 - smoke pot at school you get suspended and maybe expelled. Lesson 2 - don't do that again.

Maybe if you weren't an idiot, you wouldn't get yourself into trouble.

zero tolerance means zero tolearance al lthe kids know it upfront so why the shock when they get caught ?

But for all who comment that these girls should know the consequences, you - like the Gestapo FCPS - are making the assumption they are GUILTY. Where is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty? Where is the evidence? Where is their chance to defend themselves?

What grinds me is that kids are suspended and expelled with little or no evidence against them on cases that would never be brought before a Judge in Court because they are so flimsy. Noelle Prosequi, Habeaus Corpus - believe me Latin has died at FCPS because those words are unheard and not practiced there.

And unlike court -where you have a chance to get you case dismissed if you cooperate with the Gestapo over at the ASAP program and do some community service. At school - no such luck. You are out on the first strike.

So, if you just happen to use the bathroom while the bong in the toilet people are smoking - your chances of being suspended are quite high. Or if you frost the wrong person - your chances of being suspended unfairly are even higher. McCarthyism is alive and well at FCPS.

Some kids will tell you the NEVER use the bathroom at school - for this and a variety of other criminal reasons.

minors aren't afforded constitutional right of their own...they are only afforded those of their parents.





FCPSIntolerance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But for all who comment that these girls should
> know the consequences, you - like the Gestapo FCPS
> - are making the assumption they are GUILTY. Where
> is the presumption of innocence until proven
> guilty? Where is the evidence? Where is their
> chance to defend themselves?
>
> What grinds me is that kids are suspended and
> expelled with little or no evidence against them
> on cases that would never be brought before a
> Judge in Court because they are so flimsy. Noelle
> Prosequi, Habeaus Corpus - believe me Latin has
> died at FCPS because those words are unheard and
> not practiced there.
>
> And unlike court -where you have a chance to get
> you case dismissed if you cooperate with the
> Gestapo over at the ASAP program and do some
> community service. At school - no such luck. You
> are out on the first strike.
>
> So, if you just happen to use the bathroom while
> the bong in the toilet people are smoking - your
> chances of being suspended are quite high. Or if
> you frost the wrong person - your chances of being
> suspended unfairly are even higher. McCarthyism is
> alive and well at FCPS.
>
> Some kids will tell you the NEVER use the bathroom
> at school - for this and a variety of other
> criminal reasons.

Speaking from personal experience, I have observed a HUGE failing in FCPS's alleged "adjudication process." I witnessed that FCPS assumes that the kid is guilty, period. (If you don't believe my testimony here, I recommend that you attend one of these "suspension/expulsion hearings," or better yet, talk to me offline--I can give you all the depressing details.) For a serious offense like carrying 0.01 grams of marijuana (or being in the vicinity thereof), expulsion is the rule, not the exception. The system has no resemblance to the actual American justice system--there is no due process, the kids have no rights, and they are detained and subjected to duress and interrogation long before the parents are notified. I can only conclude that it is designed to maximize convenience for FCPS administrators. No regard is given to the effects on the kids being railroaded in the process. It has now come to FCPS having the blood of two teens on its hands, to (maybe) force a re-evaluation of the system. C'mon people, this is America, not Stalinist Russia. It's time for the pendulum to swing back to the middle.

I'll say it again here:

You crackers don't care when our minority or poor white kids get thrown out of school for a first offense involving drugs/weapons.

But your precious Biff should get 3 or 4 chances for the same offense? Fuck that!

Zero tolerance is the only, repeat ONLY, way to insure equal treatment of ALL kids in this racist society.

I could have written FCPSINtolerance's post. Same thing happened to my child. There was no evidence, no proof,no due proces, no notification until after the suspension, My child claimed innocence and for once I believed him but no one at FCPS would listen. When we appealed to the Principal, he did not allow my son to appear not did he ever speak to my son, he refused evidence of innocence we had, refused my son's written statement (my son had refused to write a "confession" under duress which was considered proof of his guilt) and he even got my son's name wrong.

Don't think this cannot happen to your child. If they are in the vicinity of a guilty party, they are guilty. Does not matter if they are on school property or not, the latest VA legislation lets the school poke its nose into any juvenile offense. Most cases like this are null processed or dismissed in juvenile court. At FCPS, its an automatic life sentence guilty or innocent.

I'm not convinced that a mega school district can do a good job these days. It's too impersonal, there's too many administrators at the central offices who do very little that actually assists with the educational process, and there is enormous pressure on teachers to get test results (SOLs was the weirdest thing when we moved here--we were like WHAT is the big deal about them?).

The problem with zero tolerance is that it eliminates the very concept our judicial system is based on, which is "innocent until proven guilty". In any situation, drugs, fighting, etc, a school resource officer or police should conduct an investigation and obtain all the evidence and facts so the School can make a decision as each case is unique.

Unfortunately, this entire process now almost soley appears to fall on school administrators who are untrained and afraid of a lawsuit. Therefore, the administrator goes with the easy way out and discipline the child(ren) based on their opinion, not the facts, and points their finger at the "zero intelligence" policy. This lays the burden of proof on the accused. Oddly enough, most parents simply accept at face value and do not question the the decision, nor how the decision was determined.

When a parent/guardian does question or disagrees with the decision based on evidence or facts, the buck is then passed on to the school board. This results in a process in which the parents/guardians are forced to deal with a politician at the school board whose sole job is to defend the policy and decision. Even when the school board is facing a preponderance of evidence they still choose to stand by the policy and decision.

The school board does this because they know that more than 99% of the students parents/guardians will simply complain and do nothing else. So the odds are really in the FCPS boards favor. Which is why parents should take it out of the hands of the School and FCPS board and take it to court where the child(ren) can receive a fair and unbias decision.

However, due to the costs and time involved, most parents change their mind. Which I feel is huge mistake, because while it could take several years, the school board normally folds right before a trial and pay knowing that no one can determine what a jury will do when faced with actual facts. Be the ant, not the grasshopper when dealing with FCPS.

The schools are run like jails or POW camps. I know a lot of people will respond that 'if your kid does nothing wrong, you don't have anything to worry about'. That is true. But parents should not have to worry about the school being judge, jury, and executioner for petty infractions - all done before a parent is involved.

Many crimes are treated differently based on re-ocurrence - hence the term first time offenders. You get a much harsher punishment for a 2nd DWI, or 2nd assault, or whatever. But in FCPS, the concept of a first offense seems to be lost. Oddly, the adults in FCPS seem better protected and have more due process than the kids.

I am really confused, when you say to take it to court, first why would a court that hears criminal cases hear a school expulsion?. Are you talking about a civil suit against the school board?

My apologies, I should have clarrified, I was referring to "civil".

OK, so what would be the basis of the suit?. Less than half a percent of expelled students acually leave the school system. Going to another school is not depriving anyone of an education, the only requirement of schools in Virginia is to provide something. A civil suit would make an attorney happy but it wouldnt go anywhere.

If a student is a danger to others, he/she should be expelled COMPLETELY from FCPS. These 'expulsions' to other schools - from Woodson to Fairfax or Langley to Marshall - what's the point? If that kid was a danger in his/her home school, won't they be just as much a danger in the new school? And if they are not a danger, why are you just shifting them around? It's a solution devised by a bureaucrat - meaningless actions parading as an accomplishment.

I live in Prince William County, our son attends Beville Middle School, and is being railroaded by the PWCS system of "Zero Tollerance" much like the stories that I have read regarding Fairfax County.
On 02 February 2011, Nickolas had taken a small pocket knife (the blade measures approximately 1 3/4 inches) to school.
He was immediately suspended for 5 school days, with which we did not meet with the Principal again until 1 week after the incident.
His Office of Student Management and Alternative Programs (OSMAP) hearing is scheduled for tomorrow, 23 February 2011, Building #101, 14800 Joplin Road, Independent Hill, Manassas VA 20112.
Without further notification, he has not attended school since, and told he would be arrested for trespassing if found on PWCS properties.
We have met with an attorney, who will be present (if allowed by OSMAP) at the hearing.
Do you have any further advice or instructions.
Our Son has an exemplary record of attendance, no disciplinary problems and a straight A/B student with Honor Roll mentions.

I'm pretty sure that in Fairfax Co, the blade has to be longer than that (3 inches, maybe? not sure) to be an automatic expulsion. Anything under a certain length and it's up to the discretion of the school. I know of a student who had a key-chain size knife (like 1 inch), and the teacher was able to reason with the administrator that the kid had it out of ignorance/neglect (as opposed to malice). Citing no prior behavior problems, etc, the admin suspended him for a couple days but never took it to the school board. I think if it can be reasoned out within the school there is some flexibility (depending on the school), but if it goes beyond that - to the board, then it's tougher.

...probably had A LOT to do with the teacher sticking up for the kid early on though. Depending on how your child got caught/circumstances, he might not be so lucky.

Just wanted to know from others...are there other sites or groups to join if you want to help change the zero tolerence policy in our schools?

This family has also had a very bad school year with this sort of nonsense, and we have instructed both our kids to "lawyer-up" if ever anythoing goes wrong.

Life shouldn't be like that!

Anyway, how can we help effect change?

My suggestion is to stage a mass protest, and everyone refuse to sign that three R's document in September. That will get their attention.

If Egypt can do it, so can we!

This thread is full of FCPS students who simply want to get by with all kinds of garbage. The policy is fine as it stands, so stop whining.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Centreville HS teacher defends zero tolerance policies.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-opinions/2011/02/the_rationale_for_strict_high.html

Link to Facebook page for Fairfax Zero Tolerance Reform

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Fairfax-Zero-Tolerance-Reform/191306827559114

You can get involved here.

http://fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org/

If a student of a highschool smoked pot with a kid (off school grounds) and the kid tells his parents and they call the school and search the boy he smoked with and charges him with possesion of Marijuana when he has none one him at all is this possible or can it be easily over turned in court?

Get good legal advice parents. If your child is caught OFF GROUNDS on a minor charge they can be kicked out of school. The SB does not care about a child in need.

Even if your child has a MINOR CHARGE! We should all be outraged!

These are kids. Not adults.

I am not talking guns,crack,bullying and gangs but small stuff.

Start saving money since teens are teens.

I would HOPE my child would not kill himself over such BS but it can happen.

Zero tolerance is for nazis. Who hasn't made a mistake in their life. Expel repeat offenders and give the others a second chance.

Based on a letter to the editor in today's Washington Post, it looks like at least one person had a good experience with the school board, hearing office and both schools during her child's hearing and suspension process. She states that the SB did not concur with the recommendation for explusion, that the hearing officer was "warm and caring" and that her child has done well at his new school (Woodson) and still cares for his old school (Chantilly).

wow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on a letter to the editor in today's
> Washington Post, it looks like at least one person
> had a good experience with the school board,
> hearing office and both schools during her child's
> hearing and suspension process. She states that
> the SB did not concur with the recommendation for
> explusion, that the hearing officer was "warm and
> caring" and that her child has done well at his
> new school (Woodson) and still cares for his old
> school (Chantilly).

I call BS. A child was expelled from Chantilly for the "crime" of graffiti. This one turned out OK but many do not. There is no justification for the severity of the punishment.

wow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on a letter to the editor in today's Washington Post, it looks like at least one person had a good experience with the school board, hearing office and both schools during her child's hearing and suspension process. She states that the SB did not concur with the recommendation for explusion, that the hearing officer was "warm and caring" and that her child has done well at his new school (Woodson) and still cares for his old school (Chantilly).<

And yet, despite this experience, this parent/author supports ZTR.

wow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...She states that the SB did not concur with the recommendation for
> explusion, that the hearing officer was "warm and caring" and that
> her child has done well at his new school (Woodson) and still cares
> for his old school (Chantilly).

Something does not compute.

Getting removed from Chantilly and moved to Woodson =is= being expelled from Chantilly.

Strict discipline ---> depression ---> suicide.

Just sayin'.

did anyone read that piece in the Post editorial section today about the zero tolerance policy? Dude spray painted grafiti on his school and trespassed at two others and his mom says he made a "mistake". A mistake?
Sounded more like vandalism to me. So he was thrown out of his HS - but apparently he was a good ball player and got into TC Williams and then got two college scholarships. The piece was a criticism of the FCPS zero tolerance policy.
Sorry - my heart was not warmed.

Sorry your heart was not warmed. But there should have been other discipline methods before expelling a kid for vandalism and trespass. Everytime anyone walks around the school track on off hours - you could be charged with trespassing. The kid should have to pay or do the work to remove/cover the vandalism and have detention or even suspension - not expulsion for the first offense.

The only people complaining about the Zero-Tolerance policy are the fuck-ups who are doing shit that they know they shouldn't be doing. I mean really, how hard is this shit?

School: "You will be expelled if you bring drugs to school."

Student: "I brought drugs to school and you caught me."

School: "You're expelled."

Student: "SO UNFAIR! WAAAAAAAH!!!"

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

If I were Dante's mom, I would want to know why these kids weren't expelled.....







Vandalism incident at Mount Vernon High got way out of hand.

By By Rich Sanders
Thursday, September 28, 2006


Year three of West Potomac High football coach Eric Henderson's re-building program took a hit two weeks ago when several Wolverine players, along with other West Potomac students, were caught committing vandalism acts at Mount Vernon High School by security cameras.
The defacement of property acts took place the night of Thursday, Sept. 14, one day before West Potomac was to host Mount Vernon in a non-district, cross-town rival football game.
According to West Potomac High Principal Rima Vesilind, as many as 18 youngsters were believed to have been involved in the incident, including a few who are not students at West Potomac.
Vesilind said Wolverine paw prints and the letters "WP" were found spray-painted at various places on the Mount Vernon campus. Youths spray-painted the Mount Vernon High `Rock,' located in the front of the school, as well as the trunk of a tree, a sidewalk, and the school stadium's concession stand.
According to Bernie Forte, director of student activities at Mount Vernon, there were also spray-painted graffiti on the football stadium pressbox. Forte said the two schools worked together to determine what exactly had occurred.
"Both schools did an investigation," said Forte.
Security cameras recorded the acts and some of the West Potomac students who were caught on tape were called in to talk to West Potomac school authorities on Friday afternoon.
"We're fortunate because Mount Vernon has cameras outside," said Vesilind. "The outside cameras caught everyone on video. We were able to identify everyone immediately."
Before that evening's football game, it was determined that the Wolverine players involved would not be allowed to play against Mount Vernon. That turned out to be a large enough number of players that coach Henderson had to call up the entire JV team to help deal with the vacancies on the varsity roster (see related game story on page 35). The Wolverines, who many believed would defeat a re-building Mount Vernon team, were overwhelmed in a 39-0 loss.
Investigations into the vandalism continued throughout the early parts of this week.
Although it was uncertain as of Tuesday if the West Potomac football players involved would be allowed to play in this Thursday night's game at Centreville High, Henderson indicated he believed the players would be allowed to play.

VESILIND BELIEVES last week's incident at Mount Vernon began as a fun type of prank in which the youngsters planned to spray paint the Mount Vernon High `Rock.' But things snowballed from there and the students got carried away.
"West Potomac will definitely take appropriate action," said Vesilind, who said penalty options included out of school or in school suspensions as well as possible community service. "Most teenagers have a difficult time making good decisions in life. We want to help them understand how not to be a follower."
Jeff Dietze, the West Potomac Director of Student Activities, said youngsters do not always think of the repercussions which come in doing wrong things.
"It started as painting the rock and got out of hand," said Dietze. "Now we've got a major issue. Kids do not understand the consequences of what can happen."
In a written release earlier this week, Captain Mike Kline, commander at the Mount Vernon District Police Station, said little information could be given out on the vandalism occurrence because of the youngsters' ages and because the investigation was ongoing. Part of the release read: "Several WPHS kids were identified as suspects, many of whom are football players. As a result many WPHS football players were suspended for last Friday night's game. ..."Because criminal investigation is on going and the suspects are juveniles, I will not be able to provide any additional information."
Vesilind said youngsters involved in the vandalism went over to Mount Vernon with their parents and coaches on Sunday and cleaned up the spray painted areas.
"They cleaned up everything," said Vesilind. "They power-washed, cleaned things and re-painted. They, on their own volition, went over and cleaned everything up. ...West Potomac will be using this as a learning opportunity."
On Tuesday, coach Henderson said he could not elaborate on the severity of the penalties but believed the football players involved would be allowed to play this week against the Wildcats of Centreville.
"We anticipate those kids who did not play [last] Friday will play on Thursday," he said.
The coach, naturally, was disappointed with the poor decision making exhibited by the youngsters involved, and particularly his team members.
"I take it personally," said Henderson. "I've tried to instill some core values in the program — honesty, doing the right thing, being a good man and valuable member of the community. I [think] my message has been a little ineffective."
Naturally, the vandalism incident affected the competitiveness of last Friday's annual West Potomac-Mount Vernon game in a negative way.
"You like to see two teams evenly matched any time they face each other," said Forte. "It puts a negative touch on the game. The administrators of the schools have to do what's right."
Dietze said Wolverine coaches have talked to their players about conduct issues.
"Our coaches spent a lot of time talking about leadership and holding ourselves to high standards," he said.
In an apparent retaliation, the West Potomac High `Rock' was spray-painted by vandals this past weekend, according to Vesilind. Also, athletic signs decorating the outside of the West Potomac school — commemorative signs honoring past West Potomac athletic championships — were knocked down.

thought this was about punishing students for forcing teachers to have sex with them

The only people supporting the Zero-Tolerance policy are the fucking asshole nazis who are doing shit that they know is sadistic and abusive. I mean really, how hard is this shit?

School: "You have no due process rights."

Student: "The U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Supreme Court says that I do."

School: "Fuck you and fuck your constitutional rights."

Student: "I wiull see you in Federal Court!!!"

School: "WAAAAA, WAAAAAA WAAAA, SOOOOOO UNFAIR!!!!"

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only people complaining about the
> Zero-Tolerance policy are the fuck-ups who are
> doing shit that they know they shouldn't be doing.
> I mean really, how hard is this shit?

+1

Some breeders are so used to trying to be their kid's friend instead of the kid's parent that they just don't get making a rule stick. They are the same annoying parents you see in public telling their kid they want some behavior stopped by the time they count to three. Three goes by and the behavior continues, so they count to four and five (and beyond) raising their voice louder, as if that is supposed to impress some importance on the child. The slap on the ass was supposed to happen at three, and the child learns to respect the threat of consequences when rules are plainly stated and are then plainly broken.

Fast forward twelve years and both the parents and students are asking "where is my 'four' and 'five' on this 'three' count? No Fair!!1!11!!1111!!1!!!!!!!!!1!!!"

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

"The only people supporting the Zero-Tolerance policy are the fucking asshole nazis who are doing shit that they know is sadistic and abusive. I mean really, how hard is this shit? "

School: "You have no due process rights."

Student: "The U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Supreme Court says that I do."

School: "Fuck you and fuck your constitutional rights."

Student: "I wiull see you in Federal Court!!!"

School: "WAAAAA, WAAAAAA WAAAA, SOOOOOO UNFAIR!!!!"

+1

Some children-haters are so used to trying to be their dudes friend instead of a conscientiuous citizen that they just don't get making the law stick. They are the same annoying assholes you see in public telling their "boyz" they want some behavior performed by the time they count to three. Three goes by and the behavior continues, so they count to four and five (and beyond) raising their voice louder, as if that is supposed to impress some importance on the dude. The slap on the ass was supposed to happen at three, and the dude learns to respect the threat of consequences when rules are plainly stated and are then plainly broken.

Fast forward twelve years and both the dude and asshole are asking "where is my 'four' and 'five' on this 'three' count? No Fair!!1!11!!1111!!1!!!!!!!!!1!!!"

Mr. Mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only people supporting the Zero-Tolerance
> policy are the fucking asshole nazis who are doing
> shit that they know is sadistic and abusive. I
> mean really, how hard is this shit?
>
> School: "You have no due process rights."
>
> Student: "The U.S. Constitution and the U.S.
> Supreme Court says that I do."
>
> School: "Fuck you and fuck your constitutional
> rights."
>
> Student: "I wiull see you in Federal Court!!!"
>
> School: "WAAAAA, WAAAAAA WAAAA, SOOOOOO
> UNFAIR!!!!"

Yes, school administrators are expelling kids who bring drugs to school or destroy taxpayer-funded property because they hate kids. Fine detective work, Sherlock.

"Due process?" What, like kids should have the opportunity to explain WHY they brought drugs into school? SPOILER ALERT: Telling them that you're holding it for a friend will never work.

I hope to the gods that this policy stays in place forever, because "Zero Tolerance" is how the world fucking works. Pull this shit at work, and you're GONE, no appeals.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Yes, school administrators are trampling the 14th amendment due process rights of our student. Fine detective work there, asshole.

"Drugs in school?" What, like kid shouldn't have the opportunity to explain WHY they were falsely accused, railroaded, and had exculpatory evidenced buried? SPOILER ALERT: Telling them that they don't have 14th amendment due process rights will never work. Asshole.

I hope to the gods that this lawless policy is removed forever, because "Zero Tolerance" is not at all how the world fucking works. Unless you are a filthy lawless nazi. Pull this shit at work,like the pot-growing elementary school Principal, and you're GET TO LAWYER UP, WITH ENDLESS appeals. Asshole.

Mr. Mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, school administrators are trampling the 14th
> amendment due process rights of our student. Fine
> detective work there, asshole.

Ding ding! Here comes the Clue Train!

Kids generally don't have constitutional rights, and children in school definitely don't have constitutional rights. Ever hear of "in loco parentis?" It's a fancy latin phrase that means, "while you're in school, the school is your parent." The reason being, it's really hard on the education process when you have a bunch of dumbass kids who think they know shit about shit constantly whining about how it's their First Amendment right to call the teacher a stupid fuck-knuckle.

You're also forgetting that it's not "your" locker they're so unfairly searching. It's the school's locker that they're allowing you to use. They're allowed to search book bags because their goal is to give you an education (which, in your case, they've clearly failed at that so far), and large amounts of kids carrying drugs and weapons around schools kinda interferes with that.

For added hilarity, get caught with weapons or drugs on school property as an adult. You'll be flipping burgers to pay the fines for the rest of your life.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Langley Students Vandalize McLean High, Insult Step Team

Ugly Incidents at Langley-McLean Basketball Game
By Paula Rogo

| January 13, 2011

Update:The Fairfax County Police Department just stated that no police officers were injured at the basketball game on December 17.

A McLean student was detained by an officer after throwing a water bottle as other students were leaving. That student was turned over to school administrators for school discipline. No-one was arrested

McLEAN - Langley High School students vandalized McLean High School and hurled insults that bordered on racial slurs during the first basketball game between the two long-time McLean cross town rivals in December.

According to a story in the Saxon Scope, the Langley High School student newspaper, "At the game, which was hosted at McLean, Langley students hurled insults at McLean’s step team, shouted demeaning messages at the opposing fans, and even managed to put seventeen holes in McLean’s gym bleachers using their feet. By the end of the game, the police were involved, and an officer was injured, the Scope story said.

McLean Patch has asked the Fairfax County Police Department about the incident.

Langley High School principal Matthew Ragone "later addressed the abuse inflicted on the McLean step team, saying, “Their step team gets mocked by a lot of schools, not just Langley. Those girls are really courageous to get out there in front of everybody, just to be made fun of. [The principal of McLean] told me that the step team coaches have to persuade them every game to keep going,” the Scope reported.

"Mr. Ragone said he was saddened when on Friday, Langley became one of the many schools to mock the step team. “People see us [making fun of them] and think it’s a racial reaction….They accuse us of being racist. And I really don’t know what to say to that,” the Langley newpaper reported.

Stepping is a dance performance, made popular by African American fraternities and sororities, involving chanting, singing, stomping of the feet, and clapping of the hands in a synchronized manner. McLean’s step-team has a diverse racial make-up. In past years, it has been a majority African American team.


After talking with McLean Principal Deborah Jackson, Paul Regnier, the spokesman for the Fairfax County Public Schools confirmed, that around 25 school bleachers were damaged. Unable to give the cost of repairs, he added that “the bill for the bleachers will go to Langley.” Regnier could not comment on any disciplinary action.

It could not be determined if Jackson had addressed her student body about the incidents. Teachers have discussed the incidents in some classes.

Why should you care if you have no children who attend either McLean or Langley: Because taxpayers will end up paying to repair the damages and because some of our students have been hurt and disrespected by some of their neighbors.

McLean and Langley are two of Fairfax County's most elite schools. Both are attended by children from some of the richest families in the county where fathers and mothers are lawyers, doctor, diplomats, lobbyists, high ranking government officials and Supreme Court justices. The granddaughter of former president Lyndon Johnson teaches at Langley.

This is the second time this year that Langley students have vandalised a school. Some Langley students damaged their own school in October when they defied Ragone and staged the banned rituals of Color Day which includes spraying each other with paint, mustard and ketchup that gets on school walls, floors and tables.



Neither Ragone nor Jackson would comment for this story. It is unclear if Ragone offered an apology on behalf of Langley and whether Jackson asked for one on behalf of McLean. McLean Patch made several attempts to talk to both principals. We visited both schools, where Jackson was unavailable and Ragone had already left for the day. The following day Ragone referred us to Assistant Principal Fred Amico, who did not return our calls. Jackson referred us to Regnier. Both principals knew we were calling about the incidents at the game.


Ragone asked students to voluntarily write letters of apology to McLean, according to the Saxon Scope.

The two schools, which are four miles apart, have enjoyed a long and spirited rivalry. The December game was a tight game, with Langley taking the win at 43-42 “The games are extremely vibrant,” Rose Amolo, a McLean parent says. “I look forward to going to them.

The games have become so intense that fans from each school must use separate entrances to avoid confrontations.

Nnenna Izegbu, who graduated from McLean in 2009, and was the step team captain for two years said, “We loved to perform because we get love and overwhelming support from our school. . . You have to understand that the rivalry is amplified,” she added. “People are ready to say anything to make the other side angry. They don’t realize what they’re saying can be semi-derogatory.”

Regnier said students do get overexcited during games. “We try to do what we can to stop them.” He adds that it is up to the school’s principals to figure out how to stop these actions.

Dave Seminara, a freelance sports reporter who covered the game for Patch, said, "I've covered about a dozen games for Patch so far, and this was the only game I've done where there was any chanting going on". The chants included:

Langley Fans: "Our girls are hotter!" (During a halftime cheerleaders skit) A small group of their fans also chanted "We can buy you" at one point, and a handful were mocking a girl on the McLean team and yellling at her that she was "ugly." After they won, they chanted "this is OUR house." (though the game was at Mclean)

McLean Fans: They chanted the name of the ex-wife of one of the Langley coaches ex-wife at one point. I asked a few people about this, but no one was very clear how this got started. They chanted "Justin Beiber" frequently, at one of the Langley players. They also chanted "He's a freshman," and "Merry Christmas" a few times.

Ragone told his students, “If we take the high road and show what classy, nice people we can be, then our relationship with McLean can be rebuilt. But if we act defensive and make excuses for our behavior, then we won’t be playing McLean in public anymore,” Ragone said according to the Saxon Scope.

A McLean student was detained by an officer after throwing a water bottle as other students were leaving

This is an expellable offense-for sure.

******************************************

By the end of the game, the police were involved, and an officer was injured, the Scope story said.

They injured a cop-holy cow!

********************************************

The games have become so intense that fans from each school must use separate entrances to avoid confrontations

Sounds like an angry mob to me.

*********************************************
The games are extremely vibrant,” Rose Amolo, a McLean parent says. “I look forward to going to them.

VIBRANT???? Sounds like an angry, racist mob to me.

************************************************


This is the second time this year that Langley students have vandalised a school. Some Langley students damaged their own school in October when they defied Ragone and staged the banned rituals of Color Day which includes spraying each other with paint, mustard and ketchup that gets on school walls, floors and tables.


These kids sound out of control to me.


****************************************************


If this behavior happened at Annandale or Mt Vernon, three things would have happened:

1. The cops would have been called and multiple students would have been taken to jail.

2. Kids would have been banned from future games.

3. Multiple suspensions and expulsions


How nice for these brats from Langley to get special treatment.

i support mandatory switchblade training from grades 9-12

Duchess Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry your heart was not warmed. But there should
> have been other discipline methods before
> expelling a kid for vandalism and trespass.
> Everytime anyone walks around the school track on
> off hours - you could be charged with trespassing.
> The kid should have to pay or do the work to
> remove/cover the vandalism and have detention or
> even suspension - not expulsion for the first
> offense.

Perhps it should have just been left up to the police to handle the matter - since vandalism is a crime - and the school should have stayed out of it altogether. BTW, I wonder if an average schlub who did the same thing as this guy but wasn't such a good ball player would have fared so well?

Color day is where you smear each other with ketchup,mustard, and spray paint.


Sounds like a fag game to me.

MrMephisto wrote:

"Ding ding! Here comes the Clue Train!

"Kids generally don't have constitutional rights, and children in school definitely don't have constitutional rights. Ever hear of "in loco parentis?" It's a fancy latin phrase that means, "while you're in school, the school is your parent." The reason being, it's really hard on the education process when you have a bunch of dumbass kids who think they know shit about shit constantly whining about how it's their First Amendment right to call the teacher a stupid fuck-knuckle."


Now here is the truth of the matter, you contemptible, ignorant, pathetic, piece of sewer trash. The Supreme Court flatly rejects your brownshirt approach to school discipline. And to that end, here is the explicit language of the Court in Tinker v Des Moines, which was decided in 1969.

"It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."

Wanna read that over and over again,you stupid filthy loudmouth piece of shiit?

Now shut the phuk up and get lost, you ignorant scumbag.

Mr.Mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto wrote:
>
> "Ding ding! Here comes the Clue Train!
>
> "Kids generally don't have constitutional rights,
> and children in school definitely don't have
> constitutional rights. Ever hear of "in loco
> parentis?" It's a fancy latin phrase that means,
> "while you're in school, the school is your
> parent." The reason being, it's really hard on the
> education process when you have a bunch of dumbass
> kids who think they know shit about shit
> constantly whining about how it's their First
> Amendment right to call the teacher a stupid
> fuck-knuckle."
>
>
> Now here is the truth of the matter, you
> contemptible, ignorant, pathetic, piece of sewer
> trash. The Supreme Court flatly rejects your
> brownshirt approach to school discipline. And to
> that end, here is the explicit language of the
> Court in Tinker v Des Moines, which was decided in
> 1969.
>
> "It can hardly be argued that either students or
> teachers shed their constitutional rights to
> freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse
> gate."
>
> Wanna read that over and over again,you stupid
> filthy loudmouth piece of shiit?
>
> Now shut the phuk up and get lost, you ignorant
> scumbag.

Ah, name calling. The last refuge of the uninformed.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Is this the last time this has been challenged?

I hope so since this still holds true to this day.

what was their punishment? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Langley Students Vandalize McLean High, Insult
> Step Team
>
> Ugly Incidents at Langley-McLean Basketball Game
> By Paula Rogo
>
> | January 13, 2011
>
> Update:The Fairfax County Police Department
> just stated that no police officers were injured
> at the basketball game on December 17.
>
> A McLean student was detained by an officer after
> throwing a water bottle as other students were
> leaving. That student was turned over to school
> administrators for school discipline. No-one was
> arrested
>
> McLEAN - Langley High School students vandalized
> McLean High School and hurled insults that
> bordered on racial slurs during the first
> basketball game between the two long-time McLean
> cross town rivals in December.
>
> According to a story in the Saxon Scope, the
> Langley High School student newspaper, "At the
> game, which was hosted at McLean, Langley students
> hurled insults at McLean’s step team, shouted
> demeaning messages at the opposing fans, and even
> managed to put seventeen holes in McLean’s gym
> bleachers using their feet. By the end of the
> game, the police were involved, and an officer was
> injured, the Scope story said.
>
> McLean Patch has asked the Fairfax County Police
> Department about the incident.
>
> Langley High School principal Matthew Ragone
> "later addressed the abuse inflicted on the McLean
> step team, saying, “Their step team gets mocked
> by a lot of schools, not just Langley. Those girls
> are really courageous to get out there in front of
> everybody, just to be made fun of. told me that
> the step team coaches have to persuade them every
> game to keep going,” the Scope reported.
>
> "Mr. Ragone said he was saddened when on Friday,
> Langley became one of the many schools to mock the
> step team. “People see us and think it’s a
> racial reaction….They accuse us of being racist.
> And I really don’t know what to say to that,”
> the Langley newpaper reported.
>
> Stepping is a dance performance, made popular by
> African American fraternities and sororities,
> involving chanting, singing, stomping of the feet,
> and clapping of the hands in a synchronized
> manner. McLean’s step-team has a diverse racial
> make-up. In past years, it has been a majority
> African American team.
>
>
> After talking with McLean Principal Deborah
> Jackson, Paul Regnier, the spokesman for the
> Fairfax County Public Schools confirmed, that
> around 25 school bleachers were damaged. Unable to
> give the cost of repairs, he added that “the
> bill for the bleachers will go to Langley.”
> Regnier could not comment on any disciplinary
> action.
>
> It could not be determined if Jackson had
> addressed her student body about the incidents.
> Teachers have discussed the incidents in some
> classes.
>
> Why should you care if you have no children who
> attend either McLean or Langley: Because taxpayers
> will end up paying to repair the damages and
> because some of our students have been hurt and
> disrespected by some of their neighbors.
>
> McLean and Langley are two of Fairfax County's
> most elite schools. Both are attended by children
> from some of the richest families in the county
> where fathers and mothers are lawyers, doctor,
> diplomats, lobbyists, high ranking government
> officials and Supreme Court justices. The
> granddaughter of former president Lyndon Johnson
> teaches at Langley.
>
> This is the second time this year that Langley
> students have vandalised a school. Some Langley
> students damaged their own school in October when
> they defied Ragone and staged the banned rituals
> of Color Day which includes spraying each other
> with paint, mustard and ketchup that gets on
> school walls, floors and tables.
>
>
>
> Neither Ragone nor Jackson would comment for this
> story. It is unclear if Ragone offered an apology
> on behalf of Langley and whether Jackson asked for
> one on behalf of McLean. McLean Patch made several
> attempts to talk to both principals. We visited
> both schools, where Jackson was unavailable and
> Ragone had already left for the day. The following
> day Ragone referred us to Assistant Principal Fred
> Amico, who did not return our calls. Jackson
> referred us to Regnier. Both principals knew we
> were calling about the incidents at the game.
>
>
> Ragone asked students to voluntarily write letters
> of apology to McLean, according to the Saxon
> Scope.
>
> The two schools, which are four miles apart, have
> enjoyed a long and spirited rivalry. The December
> game was a tight game, with Langley taking the win
> at 43-42 “The games are extremely vibrant,”
> Rose Amolo, a McLean parent says. “I look
> forward to going to them.
>
> The games have become so intense that fans from
> each school must use separate entrances to avoid
> confrontations.
>
> Nnenna Izegbu, who graduated from McLean in 2009,
> and was the step team captain for two years said,
> “We loved to perform because we get love and
> overwhelming support from our school. . . You have
> to understand that the rivalry is amplified,”
> she added. “People are ready to say anything to
> make the other side angry. They don’t realize
> what they’re saying can be semi-derogatory.”
>
> Regnier said students do get overexcited during
> games. “We try to do what we can to stop
> them.” He adds that it is up to the school’s
> principals to figure out how to stop these
> actions.
>
> Dave Seminara, a freelance sports reporter who
> covered the game for Patch, said, "I've covered
> about a dozen games for Patch so far, and this was
> the only game I've done where there was any
> chanting going on". The chants included:
>
> Langley Fans: "Our girls are hotter!" (During a
> halftime cheerleaders skit) A small group of their
> fans also chanted "We can buy you" at one point,
> and a handful were mocking a girl on the McLean
> team and yellling at her that she was "ugly."
> After they won, they chanted "this is OUR house."
> (though the game was at Mclean)
>
> McLean Fans: They chanted the name of the ex-wife
> of one of the Langley coaches ex-wife at one
> point. I asked a few people about this, but no one
> was very clear how this got started. They chanted
> "Justin Beiber" frequently, at one of the Langley
> players. They also chanted "He's a freshman," and
> "Merry Christmas" a few times.
>
> Ragone told his students, “If we take the high
> road and show what classy, nice people we can be,
> then our relationship with McLean can be rebuilt.
> But if we act defensive and make excuses for our
> behavior, then we won’t be playing McLean in
> public anymore,” Ragone said according to the
> Saxon Scope.


FCPS Student Rights and Responsibilities don't apply to Langley High students. "We're above the rules." "We can buy you."

That attitude ages so badly. How convenient for Langley that they have money for all the plastic surgery they'll need when they turn 25. But that won't change how ugly they really are inside.

We are not cool. If are parents loved us we would be in private school.

I am not proud to go to Langley. Second class school.

FCPS are not rated as the best anymore. We are so looked down on. I guess it is like going to GMU.

Shouldn't these incidents be more widely publicized and/or go on the students' school transcripts? Maybe that would help maintain some semblance of manners. Apparently the parents cannot control their kids, and neither can the principal.

1969 Tinker v Des Moines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this the last time this has been challenged?
>
> I hope so since this still holds true to this day.

The part that Johnnie Cochran neglected to also cut and past from the Wikipedia article is:

The Court held that in order for school officials to justify censoring speech, they "must be able to show that [their] action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint," allowing schools to forbid conduct that would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school."

He also conveniently ignored the "subsequent jurisprudence" section, which states:

Tinker remains a viable and frequently-cited Court precedent, though subsequent Court decisions have determined limitations on the scope of student free speech rights. In Bethel School District v. Fraser, a 1986 case, the Supreme Court held that a high school student's sexual innuendo–laden speech during a student assembly was not constitutionally protected. Fraser qualified Tinker in making an exception for "indecent" speech. Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier, where the court ruled that schools have the right to regulate, for legitimate educational reasons, the content of non-forum, school-sponsored newspapers, also limits Tinker's application. The Court in Hazelwood clarified that both Fraser and Hazelwood were decided under the doctrine of Perry Education Association v. Perry Local Educators Association. Such a distinction keeps undisturbed the Material Disruption doctrine of Tinker, while deciding certain student free speech cases under the Nonpublic Forum doctrine of Perry. In Morse v. Frederick, the Court held that schools may, consistent with the First Amendment, restrict student speech at a school-sponsored event, even those events occurring off school grounds, when that speech is reasonably viewed as promoting illegal drug use.

All of this is beside the point. Perry Mason never bothered explaining what any of this has to do with the Zero Tolerance policy, or how limited First Amendment privileges translate into students being given a second chance to bring drugs into school.

This is the kind of kid who would touch the third rail in a Metro station, then bitch about the fact that they have electricity running through it. If you choose to make a stupid decision and get caught, you pretty much waive your right to bitch about the consequences, ESPECIALLY if the consequences are clearly defined.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

What a pathetic ass-clown. The moron has never even heard of Tinker, boldly and stupidly asserts that students have no constitutional rights in school, gets his ignorance crammed down his throat, and then, fatuously, desperately, and hilariously attempts to throw up a few smoek screens. I won't have it; I shoved his stupidity right down his ugly misanthropic throat, and thats that. Now go play in the traffic, boy.

Wow! Nice retort! I can rest easy knowing that if you ever try to plead your case to anyone NOT on the Internet, you'll do more harm than good to your own cause.

Just leave the drugs at home and you'll have nothing to worry about.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Get involved....meetings dates/times posted to discuss FCPS ZT issues

http://fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org/

Wow! Nice retort! I can rest easy knowing that if you ever try to plead your case to anyone NOT on the Internet, you'll do more harm than good to your own cause.

Just leave the drugs at home and you'll have nothing to worry about. No go play, little fella.

________________________________________
I'm climbing up the walls 'cause I want you, but when I reach ya, you disappear.

Mr.Mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a pathetic ass-clown. The moron has never
> even heard of Tinker, boldly and stupidly asserts
> that students have no constitutional rights in
> school, gets his ignorance crammed down his
> throat, and then, fatuously, desperately, and
> hilariously attempts to throw up a few smoek
> screens. I won't have it; I shoved his stupidity
> right down his ugly misanthropic throat, and thats
> that. Now go play in the traffic, boy.
Attachments:

Ohhh, he mad!!!! ROFLMAO!!!

Ralph Poootawn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ohhh, he mad!!!! ROFLMAO!!!



--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

He be mad and chit. ROFLMAO!

I got suspended from CHS and I'm pretty chill with that... administration was very nice to me. Would suck to be expelled but zero tolerance is really the only way to go. Maybe they could actually get the facts straight and not punish people who had zero involvement, as it seems that is the only flaw in the system.

I recall an incident that happened at Lee High School, probably 20 or more years ago.

Some kid brought a gun to school. He was showing it off in class, right before the beginning of class. Well, he went to put it back in his pants pocket and shot himself n the leg! What an idiot! It was an English class, and the teacher was this "darling" little man that became all aflutter and didn't know what to do. So another teacher hearing what sounded like a shot ran into the room and realized the situation and called down to the office and then went to administer aid to the kid who shot himself. Unfortunately, it was only a flesh wound. Anyway, in the melee that followed the gun was passed around in an attempt to hide it. One of the kids who had possession of the gun was an outstanding football player.

All the kids involved were "expelled". Meaning they were all transferred to some other high school. The outstanding football player was "expelled" to West Potomac and went on to help them win 2 state championships, he then went on to play at Wake Forest. Oh, the coach at West Pot, at the time, was Danny Mier (extensively referenced in another thread). The kid didn't have to sit out a season or anything!!!!! So, I don't think you can heap too much criticism on the zero tolerance policy. In this case it was very beneficial to one kid. See the threads on transfers and ineligibilty about Oakton, etc.

Zero tolerance is a great policy - they should do it the way they did at my high school (JEB Stuart). Treat every kid like a criminal.

I had an administrator (ie. failure) tell me that he had to punish everyone the same regardless of whether or not I was a good kid after he caught me going to McDonalds for lunch (sting operation). Then tried to get me to confess to going out for lunch other days... yeah, please punish me more for doing something I don't feel is wrong.

Zero tolerance pits the students against the administrators. The policy means bringing the hammer down on everyone and ignoring common sense and collateral damage.

bumbledick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had an administrator (ie. failure) tell me that
> he had to punish everyone the same regardless of
> whether or not I was a good kid after he caught me
> going to McDonalds for lunch (sting operation).
> Then tried to get me to confess to going out for
> lunch other days... yeah, please punish me more
> for doing something I don't feel is wrong.

They have to do that because if one of you little darlings gets hit by a car or kidnapped while sneaking away from school to stuff your fat stupid faces, your fat stupid bitch of a mother will sue the shit out of the school for not "protecting" you.

Don't break the rules and you won't have to worry about the zero-tolerance policy.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

All of you stop and think about the stupid shit you did when you were a teenager for a second...

Yeah, me too. People on here that talk like only bad kids do bad things are just stupid. Good kids make mistakes. I was an honor grad/all-state athlete, and I did a lot of stupid stuff. I got caught and I paid the price. But the difference then was that the price to play fit the crime. You get caught smoking cigarettes in the bathroom, you get detention. You get caught with a glock in your backpack, or selling heroine in the bathroom, well.. that would warrant a much harsher sentence.

Someone commented that the zero-tolerance policy was good because it teaches kids to be ready for the real world. Not true. If you speed, you pay a fine. If you run over someone in a drunken blur, you go to jail. See? Crime = punishment. Its REASONABLE and REALISTIC.

Zero tolerance fails to acknowledge that not all infractions are the same. It is also designed to protect the school's ass, and does NOTHING to teach kids how to make decisions. As a parent, THAT is my concern. The policy is an easy out for a difficult situation, and FCPS has basically removed any expectation that they would be part of the solution. They move someone to another school so they can say they were "responsive to the issue", when in fact they just moved the shells around on the table. How stupid are we that we fall for this?

Right on!

FCPS: Where common sense does not matter.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bumbledick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I had an administrator (ie. failure) tell me
> that
> > he had to punish everyone the same regardless
> of
> > whether or not I was a good kid after he caught
> me
> > going to McDonalds for lunch (sting operation).
> > Then tried to get me to confess to going out
> for
> > lunch other days... yeah, please punish me more
> > for doing something I don't feel is wrong.
>
> They have to do that because if one of you little
> darlings gets hit by a car or kidnapped while
> sneaking away from school to stuff your fat stupid
> faces, your fat stupid bitch of a mother will sue
> the shit out of the school for not "protecting"
> you.
>
> Don't break the rules and you won't have to worry
> about the zero-tolerance policy.



The argument isn't about school lunch policy, it's about the punishment doled out by the zero-tolerance policy. When you treat everyone kid the same and have a blanket 'punish everyone' attitude, no kid is going to cooperate with the administration.

The policy essentially instills a guilty until proven innocent atmosphere. Kids are suspended for being around a fight even if they're not involved. My brother was attacked in the locker room and defended himself and he got suspended... because there is a zero-tolerance policy towards fighting. You want to teach the kids about the real world, this is not the way to go about it.

So why don't you take that cock out of your ass and stick it back in your mouth where it belongs fuckbag.

You kids are still just making excuses for getting in trouble by doing things that you know you shouldn't be doing. Keep making these excuses, and you little fuck-ups will turn into big fuck-ups.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Who's 'you kids'? What are you, the crotchety old man that's bitter because life has passed him by? Or are you the goody two shoes who never did anything wrong when he was a kid? Oh no, wait, I got it. You're the school administrator with a false holier than thou attitude who wields what little power he has in an attempt to make himself feel better about his shitty position in life.

The world's not black and white, to treat it as such is, well, it's just as stupid as you are.

Don't bring drugs to school, don't skip class, leave your weapons at home, and don't get into fights. Then you won't have to worry about getting expelled. What's so hard about this?

Voluntarily breaking the rules and refusing to accept the consequences is a huge indicator of immaturity. A "mistake" is forgetting to carry the one when doing basic addition; getting caught with weed in your locker when you know you shouldn't have it there is being a fuck-up. Crying about the punishment is being a whiny fuck-up.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

And wrongfully punishing a assault victim because of a blanket zero tolerance policy towards fighting?

I'm sure there's more to the story than "he wuz just defending himself." There always is. I'd also be interested in hearing about prior disciplinary problems your "brother" had. I doubt they suspended a straight A student who's always been a good kid and role model. Considering he's your brother and you're an idiot, I'm betting there's a lot more to the story.

Even if it is a glaring mistake, one mistake isn't worth getting rid of a policy that keeps future losers and criminals away from the kids who actually want to be functioning members of society one day.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

OneLittleBug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of you stop and think about the stupid shit
> you did when you were a teenager for a second...
>
> Yeah, me too. People on here that talk like only
> bad kids do bad things are just stupid. Good kids
> make mistakes. I was an honor grad/all-state
> athlete, and I did a lot of stupid stuff. I got
> caught and I paid the price. But the difference
> then was that the price to play fit the crime.
> You get caught smoking cigarettes in the bathroom,
> you get detention. You get caught with a glock in
> your backpack, or selling heroine in the bathroom,
> well.. that would warrant a much harsher sentence.
>
>
> Someone commented that the zero-tolerance policy
> was good because it teaches kids to be ready for
> the real world. Not true. If you speed, you pay
> a fine. If you run over someone in a drunken
> blur, you go to jail. See? Crime = punishment.
> Its REASONABLE and REALISTIC.
>
> Zero tolerance fails to acknowledge that not all
> infractions are the same. It is also designed to
> protect the school's ass, and does NOTHING to
> teach kids how to make decisions. As a parent,
> THAT is my concern. The policy is an easy out for
> a difficult situation, and FCPS has basically
> removed any expectation that they would be part of
> the solution. They move someone to another school
> so they can say they were "responsive to the
> issue", when in fact they just moved the shells
> around on the table. How stupid are we that we
> fall for this?


The penalties you describe when you are in school for the offenses you listed are still pretty much the same, also I teach my own kids how to make the right decisions, obviously alot of people are depending on the school to do that and then are not happy with the results when the right decision is not made....What you dont know is that alot of those expelled have alot of history before ever committing the "BIG" one and are a general pain in the ass for years causing chaos for other students who really do come to school to learn. Of course thats all private information and when parents run to the newspaper to rally support, they dont mention all the other crap and issues junior has been involved in.

You're right, he was smoking crack with your whore mother.

I am sorry for the families who have lost kids to suicide. All of the useless death is tragic but how many of these kids had issues before they got caught for whatever transgression. Their cry for help led them to a hearing in front of the school board and the parents were still blind to the issues.

I'm tired of the same old battle. Kids didn’t read the expectations at the beginning of school year. Parents do give a shit if their kids drink, smoke dope, tag their school or knock some chick up. The after school specials, commercials and your kid’s teachers are not get the information thru to the kids. So parents step up and take on the problem. Hey at what age are kids going to have to be responsible. Apparently for the few times that a kid is caught doing these things how many times had they or others got away with out being caught?

The policy is fine it’s the kids that are screwed up. Parents step up to the problem and deal with it you don’t like the way the school board treats your kid then make sure they never stand in the carpet in front of them.

I know I am a heatless bastard get over it and deal with your kid, and then there is no need for the school board to get involved.

Are you not embarassed Fairfax?? Shame on us all.

http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/news/opinion/columnists/dan-k-thomasson-rigid-adherence-to-rules-proves-fatal/article_38d8ebb0-40e9-11e0-a1b7-001cc4c002e0.html

Big Dog - the policy is not fine. Try reading all 60+ pages and figuring it all out. Supposedly the FCPS powers that be are "reviewing it". I bet they just add Soy Sauce to the list of prohibited products given what happened to the UVA Pedge this weekend.

Am on the heAring right now we have a pack house

get rid of them! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you not embarassed Fairfax?? Shame on us
> all.
>
> http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/news/opinion/col
> umnists/dan-k-thomasson-rigid-adherence-to-rules-p
> roves-fatal/article_38d8ebb0-40e9-11e0-a1b7-001cc4
> c002e0.html

This is such bullshit. Everything I read about this says, "he knew he made a mistake, he just didn't expect the consequences of his actions."

If some guy gets arrested for buying drugs, loses his job, and kills himself rather than face the consequences of his actions, does that mean the law should be repealed? Should we really be teaching kids, "if you break the rules and you think the punishment is unfair, the world will change to fit your needs?"

Everyone's willing to write this off as "kids make mistakes, it wasn't a big deal." If that's the case, then why isn't anyone telling these kids, "Nobody in the adult world is going to care if you once got suspended for buying half of an imitation marijuana pill?"

The school system didn't fail this kid for following its own rules and policies; everyone in this kid's life failed him. Shifting the blame to someone else because the truth is unpleasant isn't going to fix anything.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is such bullshit. Everything I read about
> this says, "he knew he made a mistake, he just
> didn't expect the consequences of his actions."
>
> If some guy gets arrested for buying drugs, loses
> his job, and kills himself rather than face the
> consequences of his actions, does that mean the
> law should be repealed? Should we really be
> teaching kids, "if you break the rules and you
> think the punishment is unfair, the world will
> change to fit your needs?"
>


One of three things is true here. You either work for FCPS, which is why you adamantly stand by the flawed policy. Or, you are a troll who likes to argue on FFXU. Or, you're so stupid that you actually believe your stance in this argument.

I'm wrong. Actually, all three could be true.

not mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of three things is true here. You either work
> for FCPS, which is why you adamantly stand by the
> flawed policy. Or, you are a troll who likes to
> argue on FFXU. Or, you're so stupid that you
> actually believe your stance in this argument.
>
> I'm wrong. Actually, all three could be true.

You think what you want. Here's some things that are actually true, though:

1. The only people arguing that the policy is flawed are the people who are fuck-ups or friends/family of fuck-ups. I don't see anyone on here saying, "My kid follows the school rules and has never gotten in trouble for using or buying drugs at school, but it's totally unfair how your drug-using kid was treated."

2. Nobody arguing that the policy is flawed is able to explain exactly how the policy is flawed. All they're saying is, "The policy is flawed, it's unfair, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who works for FCPS."

3. Nobody disagrees with me is responding to anything I write in a manner that could possibly be mistaken as "intelligent" or "mature." I have made my position on the matter perfectly clear, and have used sources and statements to reinforce my opinions. The most I get in response is, "Yeah, well, you're a stupid homosexual."

4. Nobody has been able to explain how, if the policies and rules are so complicated and difficult to follow, 98% of kids attending school in this district manage to avoid getting expelled.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Mr.miller from. Robsinson high school gave good remarks about changing the rules.

Well said

Yea, the real estate crook who caused his staff to lose millions did a fabulous job of preaching about how he passes judgement on teenagers!

OK, here goes.

I find the policy flawed in that it mandates punishment that can be diproportionate to the crime.

I am a parent of 2 kids who went through FCPS and neither of them ever got in trouble for anything.





MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not mephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of three things is true here. You either
> work
> > for FCPS, which is why you adamantly stand by
> the
> > flawed policy. Or, you are a troll who likes to
> > argue on FFXU. Or, you're so stupid that you
> > actually believe your stance in this argument.
> >
> > I'm wrong. Actually, all three could be true.
>
> You think what you want. Here's some things that
> are actually true, though:
>
> 1. The only people arguing that the policy is
> flawed are the people who are fuck-ups or
> friends/family of fuck-ups. I don't see anyone on
> here saying, "My kid follows the school rules and
> has never gotten in trouble for using or buying
> drugs at school, but it's totally unfair how your
> drug-using kid was treated."
>
> 2. Nobody arguing that the policy is flawed is
> able to explain exactly how the policy is flawed.
> All they're saying is, "The policy is flawed, it's
> unfair, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot who
> works for FCPS."
>
> 3. Nobody disagrees with me is responding to
> anything I write in a manner that could possibly
> be mistaken as "intelligent" or "mature." I have
> made my position on the matter perfectly clear,
> and have used sources and statements to reinforce
> my opinions. The most I get in response is, "Yeah,
> well, you're a stupid homosexual."
>
> 4. Nobody has been able to explain how, if the
> policies and rules are so complicated and
> difficult to follow, 98% of kids attending school
> in this district manage to avoid getting expelled.

Parent of Former Students Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, here goes.
>
> I find the policy flawed in that it mandates
> punishment that can be diproportionate to the
> crime.

So what is an alternative that could be applied evenly and fairly to all students in the school district?

With individual hearings that address each case and dole out punishment uniquely, you run the risk of accusations and lawsuits from parents claiming favoritism and/or discrimination. Also, there would be a lot more time spent on this process, which means more money that taxpayers won't want to pay. So, that one's off the table.

You could go to a tiered system of punishment. For example, you could have detention for OTC medicine and tobacco, one week suspension for marijuana and prescription medication, two weeks for cocaine and hallucinogens, and three weeks for crack and heroine, with an expulsion policy for possessing a certain amount of drugs with intent to distribute. However, that would only communicate to fuck-ups and their dead-beat parents that there's no serious, lasting consequences for bringing a little bit of weed to school. I don't think anyone wants that.

So, what are the alternatives? Fixing a problem is a two-step process: identify the problem, then provide a solution.

> I am a parent of 2 kids who went through FCPS and
> neither of them ever got in trouble for anything.

Your credentials check out, I guess.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Nobody has a lick of common sense-there lies the problem.

A 13 year old girl who takes a pill for acne should not miss 7 weeks of school!!

Is it that complicated, guys?

A kid who scribbles on a desk should not be treated like Ted Bundy.

Punishment-yes. But it should fit the crime.

As far as repeat offenders, heavy duty remidiation and intervention.

Both Bradsher and Gibson said there were some repeat offenders who had up to 60 disciplinary actions. Do I believe that number? no-but they used it.

not rocket science Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Punishment-yes. But it should fit the crime.

So you admit what this student did was a crime. There were no formal charges and no jail imposed from what I am reading.

And if you want to give us a taste of "a lick of sense" then at least articulate what the offense was. It wasn't for taking an acne pill, it was for bringing a controlled substance into a public school.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2011 02:16PM by justsayin.

not rocket science Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody has a lick of common sense-there lies the
> problem.
>
> A 13 year old girl who takes a pill for acne
> should not miss 7 weeks of school!!
>
> Is it that complicated, guys?

The issue is not that she took an acne pill. The issue is that she had prescription medication in her locker that was not registered with the nurse. The school staff is not composed of doctors and pharmacists; a kid could very easily put something like percoset or vicodin in a bottle with a label that indicates it's for diarrhea.

What they saw was a student with a bottle of prescription medication that she was keeping from the attention of school personnel. Again, these policies exist for a reason. Unless parents are willing to pony up some cash for drug testing and chemical analysis of pills that students are keeping in their lockers, there's no way to really know which student has an acne problem and which student is abusing painkillers.

> A kid who scribbles on a desk should not be
> treated like Ted Bundy.
>
> Punishment-yes. But it should fit the crime.

I haven't seen any articles about little Johnny getting suspended for scribbling on a desk. All the big-ticket stories have involved drugs.

> As far as repeat offenders, heavy duty remidiation
> and intervention.

Who'd responsible for that? Who would pay for it?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Case law states that the process must be fundamentally fair. You be the judge.

When we treat a 6 year old the same way we treat an 18 year old it is not fundamentally fair.

When we punish a kid with an antibiotic the say way for a kid with heroin it is not fundamentally fair.

When the hearing office colludes with a principal to get their conviction the child is not being given access to an unbiased arbitrator as required by law.

When a principal tears up a statement of a kid and demands they rewrite it telling the kid what to write this is a due process violation.

The system is so broken in so many ways. To suggest it is fine is just plain stupidity.

you all are morons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Case law states that the process must be
> fundamentally fair. You be the judge.


What case law? This topic has nothing to do with law, these are regulations and policies. Please quote the cases you are referring to, otherwise you are quite the moron.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

you all are morons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Case law states that the process must be
> fundamentally fair. You be the judge.
>
> When we treat a 6 year old the same way we treat
> an 18 year old it is not fundamentally fair.
>
> When we punish a kid with an antibiotic the say
> way for a kid with heroin it is not fundamentally
> fair.
>
> When the hearing office colludes with a principal
> to get their conviction the child is not being
> given access to an unbiased arbitrator as required
> by law.
>
> When a principal tears up a statement of a kid and
> demands they rewrite it telling the kid what to
> write this is a due process violation.
>
> The system is so broken in so many ways. To
> suggest it is fine is just plain stupidity.

this is an adminstrative process not a criminal one. Children don't have any rights. Best they can hope for is rough justice. Reminds me alot of the property tax appeals process. Both are kangaroo courts you ask me.

> Children don't have any rights. Best they can
> hope for is rough justice.


School attendence is considered a property right and children, in fact do have constitutional protections.

Read up on suspension case law pal.

wrong again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Children don't have any rights. Best they can
> > hope for is rough justice.
>
>
> School attendence is considered a property right
> and children, in fact do have constitutional
> protections.
>
> Read up on suspension case law pal.

Already covered this. Children don't have the same constitutional rights as adults, period.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Shut up you ignorant blowhard, I have already humiliated your fatuous and false claim that students have no constitutionakl rights. I shoved TYinker v Des Moines and Goss V Lopez right down your ugly imsantrhropic throat. Now here's this:

§ 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.

A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except as provided in subsection B.

Now, you need to turn yourself in, confess, and demand that the authorities prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law, or concede that that you are a sad, pathetic, miserable, loney misfit who has never enjoyed oral sex. Either way, you lose big. Really big. You grotesque fraud.

Ouch! Mr. Mephisto never had a blow job, because it is unlawful in Virginia, and rules are rule; only fuck-ups break them. Checkmate.

Ouch! Mr. Mephisto never had a blow job, because it is unlawful in Virginia, and rules are rules; only fuck-ups break them. Checkmate.

lol@ Mephisto! Live by the sword, die by the sword, bub. Now go turn yourself in for breaking the law, you hopeless fuck-up.

I wonder what per centage of Virginians violate this law. Maybe, 90-05% ? Phuk-ups.

Plus look man, those goddamn slaves who attempted to escape knew, I mean they knew perfectly well that their attempts, if unsuccesful, would result in brutal whippings. But it was perfectly legal, and like I said, they knew the consequences in advance. So I wish they would stop whining about it. They were just a bunch of fuck-ups who broke the rules.

Terrance wrote the following:

"Plus look man, those goddamn slaves who attempted to escape knew, I mean they knew perfectly well that their attempts, if unsuccesful, would result in brutal whippings. But it was perfectly legal, and like I said, they knew the consequences in advance. So I wish they would stop whining about it. They were just a bunch of fuck-ups who broke the rules."

Awesome. A plus 1 simply doesn't do it justice.

Tiny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shut up you ignorant blowhard, I have already
> humiliated your fatuous and false claim that
> students have no constitutionakl rights. I shoved
> TYinker v Des Moines and Goss V Lopez right down
> your ugly imsantrhropic throat. Now here's this:

Like I said... We already covered this. Children don't have the same constitutional rights as adults, period.

Maybe if you spent more time reading the posts and less time reading your thesaurus, you would have gotten that the first time around.

> § 18.2-361. Crimes against nature; penalty.
>
> A. If any person carnally knows in any manner any
> brute animal, or carnally knows any male or female
> person by the anus or by or with the mouth, or
> voluntarily submits to such carnal knowledge, he
> or she shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony, except
> as provided in subsection B.
>
> Now, you need to turn yourself in, confess, and
> demand that the authorities prosecute you to the
> fullest extent of the law, or concede that that
> you are a sad, pathetic, miserable, loney misfit
> who has never enjoyed oral sex. Either way, you
> lose big. Really big. You grotesque fraud.

And again, your whole argument boils down to "Tinker vs. Des Moines! I win! You lose!" Your pocket full of dreams doesn't change the fact that children don't have the same constitutional rights as adults, especially where public school is concerned.

Nice job high-fiving yourself, though. For a nanosecond there, I almost thought "Tiny," "Blarny," and "Jibbler" were three different people.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Got your hypocrisy shoved ribght down your ugly throat again, huh loser? lol@ MrMephisto!! Got nowhere to hide, huh jackass?

What's it gonna be, Mr Mephisto? You gonna turn yourself in, confess, and demand to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law? Huh fuck-up? You ever break that Virginia law? Huh fuck-up?

Poor, poor Mr. Mephisto. Wrong on the constitutional implications, and an utterly incorrible scofflaw reprobate phuk-up who stubbornly refuses to comply with Virginia law § 18.2-361.

MR Mephisto, STOP COMMITING CRIMES AGAINST NATURE!!!! You fuck-up.

Mephister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got nowhere to hide, huh jackass?

Yes. Try as I might, I simply can't escape the juggernaut of "TINKER VS. DES MOINES! I WIN, I WIN! I SHOVED IT DOWN YOUR THROAT! I WIN!"

Truly, I'm grasping at straws.

Poole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's it gonna be, Mr Mephisto? You gonna turn
> yourself in, confess, and demand to be prosecuted
> to the fullest extent of the law? Huh fuck-up? You
> ever break that Virginia law? Huh fuck-up?

If I was going to do that, I'd have done it while I was a kid in a Fairfax County Public School. I wouldn't have had any constitutional rights, and I wouldn't have been punished as harshly as an adult.

You don't have any rights until you turn 18, son. Just deal with it.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

STOP COMMITING CRIMES AGAINST NATURE, YOU INCORRIGIBLE FUCK-UP!

lol@Mephisto. STOP BREAKING THE LAW YOU PHUK UP!!

Ok. Doesn't change the fact that you don't have constitutional rights like adults do.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

STOP PERPTRATING CRIMES AGAINST NATURE!!! You scofflaw fuck-up.

Voting is great, don't you agree? Who did you vote for in the last electi...

Oh, that's right. Under 18, no constitutional rights. Sorry.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Turn yourself in for the thousands of crimes against nature you have committed!! Why do you insist on breaking the law, you fuck -up

Oh yea I support suspending and transferring a kid cause they misplaced their antibiotics. 'My kid would never do that...'

What a joke when adults ruin kids lives because, well, because they are too stupid or passive to use their judgement.

Best of all you lazy parents that dont think it will happen to your kids - we should really fuck your kids over. Honestly, it seems as if all the adults are gone and we are all acting like children to the State...

http://www.fcps.edu/news/discipline/hearingsofficereport.pdf

Enjoy!

Here are some real hard core cases against kids - glad they were expelled

Possession-Look-a-Like, 9 cases
Possession-Other, 32 cases

I am still waiting for someone to come up with the a good reason why parents are not kicking these kids ass's before they get to school doing these dump stunts. Reality is out there and the parents must be lighting up with the kids if they think any of these things were ok to do in school off school grounds.

How come no one has looked at the sucide rate in fairfax county and blamed that on the school board.

Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Bigdog - Did your parent's strip search you every time you entered or left your house? Did they follow you areound 100% of the time to make sure you behaved?

Kids today have more "parenting" - more helicopter parents and hover mothers - than ever before in history, and they are even more screwed up than usual.

Schools are way harsher and far more on top of the kids than they were in the past too.

Not sure what the solution is, but halting a kid's education due to a single error in judgement is a HUGE step and only worthy of consideration in felony cases, IMHO.

And after Kicking them out of school - where do you think they go then?

Looking at the Hearing Board's annual report makes me think being a Black Male is at least 2 strikes against you too....

BeenThere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bigdog - Did your parent's strip search you every
> time you entered or left your house? Did they
> follow you areound 100% of the time to make sure
> you behaved?

I never got suspension, explusion, or even detention the entire time I was in elementary and high school. My parents were more concerned with being my parents than my friend, and blamed ME for any of my fuck-ups. Consequently, they didn't need to "strip search" me or follow me around. All they had to do was make it abundantly clear what they expected of me, and what the consequences would be if I fucked up.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Lol. This from a scofflaw degenerate who routinely commits crimes whimsy nature. In spite of knowing the consequences. Blowhard fraud.

I must agree. Anyone who holds themselves out as an example has a very demanding role, with no room for error. So if indeed, he is casually ignoring Virginia's law against oral sex, he is nothing more than an egregious hypocrite.

And an incredible fuk up.

Looper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol. This from a scofflaw degenerate who routinely
> commits crimes whimsy nature. In spite of knowing
> the consequences. Blowhard fraud.

Autocorrect fail.

Let me guess... You're in the bus on your way home, right?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

That the fuck up perv who refuses to obey Virginia law talking?

I'm really sorry that I'm smarter than you. Please stop saying hurtful things now. They... they're really getting to me.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Smarter?! My poor pathetic inferior, you are a scarcely literate troglodytic reprobate.

Runter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smarter?! My poor pathetic inferior, you are a
> scarcely literate troglodytic reprobate.

I know the truth hurts, but you'll get over it when you become an adult and have rights.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Lol. So when a minor is accused of a crime, he or she doesn't have a constitutional sixth amendment right to defense counsel? Get the Phuk outta here, you are truly to stupid to discuss adult matters.

A student may have a right to defense, but they don't have ALL the rights an adult has.

The rights of free speech, free press, free association, and freedom from unwarranted search and seizure are points of contention between school administrators and students, and have been for decades.

There are several reasons why violations of student rights are upheld by the courts. One of the most basic reasons is known as in loco parentis. This Latin phrase basically means that while a student is in the custody of a school, the school can and often should act as a parent. In this duty of the school, many decisions can be made that are outside the normal governmental purview. The other basic reason for violation of student rights has to do with the goal of school — to educate. If an act of a student can interfere with the educational process, that act may, in many cases, be suppressed.

(taken from an article on http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html)

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A student may have a right to defense, but they
> don't have ALL the rights an adult has.
>
> The rights of free speech, free press, free
> association, and freedom from unwarranted search
> and seizure are points of contention between
> school administrators and students, and have been
> for decades.
>
> There are several reasons why violations of
> student rights are upheld by the courts. One of
> the most basic reasons is known as in loco
> parentis. This Latin phrase basically means that
> while a student is in the custody of a school, the
> school can and often should act as a parent. In
> this duty of the school, many decisions can be
> made that are outside the normal governmental
> purview. The other basic reason for violation of
> student rights has to do with the goal of school
> — to educate. If an act of a student can
> interfere with the educational process, that act
> may, in many cases, be suppressed.
>
> (taken from an article on
> http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html)

I already mentioned that, but the kid doesn't care.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I already shoved the case law down the ignorant delinquent's throat, (Tinker, Goss etc.) but the boy just won't listen. The little fella thinks he has pluck, but he only demonstrates typical untutorted recklessness.

Farnsnarkle is right. Student have rights but not all the rights as an adult.

The school system follows the disciplinary consequences set by the school board.
Don't like them? Vote them out!

The school board follows the code of Virginia. DOn;t like our laws? Run for office, ask candidates on their stance regarding the sissues...AND VOTE!!



Read Wofford v. Evans

Here is the ink: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1059723.html

Not all constitutional rights and protections apply to students at the schoolhouse.

see New Jersey v. T.L.O.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110322/lf_nm_life/us_peanut_allergy

Fairfax county has a zero-tolerance policy because parents are as fucking stupid as they are crazy.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Stupid phukking moron.

Link for show today on FCPS discipline (88.5 Kojo Namdi):

http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2011-03-23/kojo-your-community-discipline-fairfax-county-schools

I am a student at a shitty highschool. I got suspended yesterday foe pushing a teacher off of me when she poured shit on my lap, on purpose. The school dealt with it wrong and now I am facing a possible expulsion. I am in no way violent, but I always stand up and defend myself. The previous times I have been in trouble have been stupid and my administrator is a biased bitch:
2 day suspension : Walking to McDonalds durring collaboration (Non-Achedemic time)
1 day suspension : Wearing a hat
1 day suspension : Drinking a RedBull
Saturday school : Late to class
Detention: Bathroom with out a pass

I am appalled by how they deal with students and how they won't take my word because of my offenses with punishments that are blown out of proportion.

You tell me:
If you had no support by your family, your school is against you, and your defending yourself with the rules set inplace for students is that insubordination or is it what I had to do to protect myself.
Fuck FCPS.

drinking a red bull???

o_0

wow!! What school do you go to?

If the teach poured shit in yr lap, do you have witnesses to this?

If not, you are going to learn a nasty lesson in bullshit

if you do, I'd file a police report

Yeah the whole cafeteria saw this shit, and the admin wont do shit shes a BITCH.
Oakton Highschool, home of bullshit.

You are definitely a victim....NOT, grow up and try following a few easy rules. It only gets harder from here.

Chin up kid...the filthy lying FCPS bastards have a day of reckoning coming.

fcps_smd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah the whole cafeteria saw this shit, and the
> admin wont do shit shes a BITCH.
> Oakton Highschool, home of bullshit.

could you elaborate on that last bit? Kid slated to go there and I'd like the true skinny good and bad. Only other possibilities seem Paul VI or maybe Flint Hill.

I have a theory that FCPS practices these zero tolerance/harsh discipline rules so peoplw will just pack off to private school or wherever, this reducing the overpopulation in the school....

I have a theory that FCPS practices these zero tolerance/harsh discipline rules so uppity kids with an unwarranted sense of entitlement will be more prepared for the real world.

Get caught with drugs in college? Expelled.

Get caught with drugs at your job? Fired.

fcps_smd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a student at a shitty highschool. I got
> suspended yesterday foe pushing a teacher off of
> me when she poured shit on my lap, on purpose. The
> school dealt with it wrong and now I am facing a
> possible expulsion. I am in no way violent, but I
> always stand up and defend myself. The previous
> times I have been in trouble have been stupid and
> my administrator is a biased bitch:
> 2 day suspension : Walking to McDonalds durring
> collaboration (Non-Achedemic time)
> 1 day suspension : Wearing a hat
> 1 day suspension : Drinking a RedBull
> Saturday school : Late to class
> Detention: Bathroom with out a pass
>
> I am appalled by how they deal with students and
> how they won't take my word because of my offenses
> with punishments that are blown out of proportion.
>
>
> You tell me:
> If you had no support by your family, your school
> is against you, and your defending yourself with
> the rules set inplace for students is that
> insubordination or is it what I had to do to
> protect myself.
> Fuck FCPS.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that there is a lot more to this story.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Parents and Guardians:

On Friday, during A and B lunches, our students engaged in a food fight.

Each of our lunches has approximately 500 students in the cafeteria at any one time. When the food fight broke out, many students ran to join in, but many others ran for the exits. Students were knocked over and, in one case, hit by a milk carton. Hundreds of students were hit with milk or food. One teacher was injured as well.

Our goal is to have a safe and secure environment. We seek to be proactive and establish proper routines of good behavior and we cannot have such displays where students can easily be injured.

We have identified only a few of the students who threw the food and drink and they will be disciplined for their actions. Hundreds of our students were involved either directly or in the aftermath.

As this was almost a school wide event, I have decided to cancel our Spring Pep Rally. I truly regret having to take this action but believe it is the proper course for this type of behavior. I have planned a meeting with our SGA to discuss the matter with them.
Thank you for your support,

Abe E. Jeffers, Principal
Robert E. Lee High School
6540 Franconia Rd.
Springfield, VA 22150
703 924-8300
703 924-8397 fax

appropriate punishment?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parents and Guardians:
>
> On Friday, during A and B lunches, our students engaged in a food fight.<
>
> Each of our lunches has approximately 500 students in the cafeteria at any one time. When the food fight broke out, many students ran to join in, but many others ran for the exits. Students were knocked over and, in one case, hit by a milk carton. Hundreds of students were hit with milk or food. One teacher was injured as well.<
>
> Our goal is to have a safe and secure environment. We seek to be proactive and establish proper routines of good behavior and we cannot have such displays where students can easily be injured.<
>
> We have identified only a few of the students who threw the food and drink and they will be disciplined for their actions. Hundreds of our students were involved either directly or in the aftermath.<
>
> As this was almost a school wide event, I have decided to cancel our Spring Pep Rally. I truly regret having to take this action but believe it is the proper course for this type of behavior. I have planned a meeting with our SGA to discuss the matter with them.<
> Thank you for your support,
>
> Abe E. Jeffers, Principal
> Robert E. Lee High School
> 6540 Franconia Rd.
> Springfield, VA 22150
> 703 924-8300
> 703 924-8397 fax<


Can an entire FCPS high school be expelled and transferred to another high school?

Goodness.....2000 students transferring to another school. How comical would that be?

We better hire more hearing officers and buy some buses.

Cha ching!

We currently spend over $800k on transporting these "dangerous" students from school A to school B. We better triple the budget!

What school will provide sanctuary for these food fight criminals?

Oh no, not the Spring Pep Rally!

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I would take a food fight anyday campared to a pep rally.

Food fights are fun!

I threw a jelly donoughnut and it splattered on a teacher. We were howling!!

Why do we need strict rules for these kids?

Jelly doughnut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I threw a jelly donoughnut and it splattered on a
> teacher. We were howling!!

Exhibit A.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Jeffers is a dumb ass! The reason we had the food fight was so the old coot would cancel the pep rally! We hate those stupid things! Oh, and I threw a buttered roll. Scored a bulls eye!

Gasp! A jelly donut! Oh the humanity!

Oh I can't wait till the last day of school. Food fight!

Was that Kevin Bacon in the utube video?

From the Post:

Fairfax leaning toward recording disciplinary hearings for students
By Donna St. George, Monday, March 28,12:18 AM

A growing number of Fairfax school officials support the idea of creating audio recordings of student disciplinary proceedings as the district seeks to respond to parent complaints about fairness and tone in the hearing room.


Here's an idea - how about firing the sadistic a-holes that have run the FCPS star chamber for the last few years. They are the ones that have made this a necessity. How about some accountability, Jack?

The FCPS should start treating kids like kids.

You should see the BS that starts in elementary school.

Jack must go!

How about Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FCPS should start treating kids like kids.
>
> You should see the BS that starts in elementary
> school.
>
> Jack must go!


I've seen it. They are run like prisons. They suck the life out of kids - especially boys. I think this is the teacher and administrators revenge for NCLB and no pay raises - I think they are intentionally screwing with the kids to get even with the parents.

6 degrees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was that Kevin Bacon in the utube video?


yep, in his screen debut

If you havent seen Animal House, you really REALLY need to

I applaud the efforts of Fairfax Zero Tolerance. These problems are larger than a piece-meal adjustment of discipline policy. They are fundamental and start with the title of the document meant to control every micro behavior: “The Responsibilities and Rights”. This is not a typo or a misprint, it is a transparent glance into the psyche of FCPS. When I arrived here in 1996 I came from a position as the CEO of a progressive think tank on education, the Center for Human Development, funded by the Department of Education. In my ignorance of this system I expected a welcoming system that nurtured students and advocated for their needs. Over the past 14 years, in private practice and as the parent of FCPS students, I have heard one horror story after another, of ruined lives as a result of this system’s view that they are the steward of the physical structure first, the advocate for administration and teachers second, and at odds with the real needs of students and their parents, who they see as adversaries. Lives are ruined over nothing and gossip. There is no legitimate and fair process-decisions are “pre-made” for hearings, by the systems stakeholders. Parents are first in denial (after all they have been students too and have a residual belief that compliance will result in problem solving), are ashamed and are paralyzed, in these situations. People, whose children have done nothing but be honest, have to secure legal representation, mortgage and lose their houses, and move-in complete shame. It is obscene.

The lense needs adjustment to reflect the absolute mandate for FCPS, to reflect real best practices-not the result of a summer workshop. The research on prevention in education is clear-the establishment of safety and emotional trust is primary. (think Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs) It is a starting place for this system. Students and parents should feel welcome and emotionally safe. This will enhance learning, and yes, even test scores. The starting place is agreement on the mission of the system: to serve the needs of the student- the consumer, not a place of desks and a jobsite for administrators. If the system were really client-centered, not just on paper, if there was a real belief that are students should be supported, as human beings, then change would take place. You can’t have responsibilities without first putting rights in place. A few relatively minor adjustments to policy will not start to cure these fundamental problems. As long as students need to be coached “not to say anything” (which I advise my clients to do), the system is nothing more than a corrections facility without constitutional protection.

my thoughts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The FCPS should start treating kids like kids.
> >
> > You should see the BS that starts in elementary
> > school.
> >
> > Jack must go!
>
>
> I've seen it. They are run like prisons. They
> suck the life out of kids - especially boys. I
> think this is the teacher and administrators
> revenge for NCLB and no pay raises - I think they
> are intentionally screwing with the kids to get
> even with the parents.


ROFLMAO@you

especially the "They are run like prisons. They suck the life out of kids - especially boys" quote

Let me guess, you think the Lamb Center is evil too, right?

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [A lot of...nothing]

Bad kids should be corrected, and if that is not possible, removed from interaction with non-bad kids.

Pretty simple policy, if you ask me, and one that actually works.

For the non-bad kids.

School is for schooling and, indeed, for social interaction (quite likely the major learning experience IN school is social, not book-learning). Controlling that social interaction thus becomes a major necessary effort of the school system.

Removing BAD social interaction in the schools unfortunately follows with that.

I have no problem with removing the one-percenters who really don't get corrected.

Because I'm in favor of the vast majority.

Parental Opinion wrote:

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [A lot of...nothing]

Bad kids should be corrected, and if that is not possible, removed from interaction with non-bad kids.

Pretty simple policy, if you ask me, and one that actually works.

For the non-bad kids.

School is for schooling and, indeed, for social interaction (quite likely the major learning experience IN school is social, not book-learning). Controlling that social interaction thus becomes a major necessary effort of the school system.

Removing BAD social interaction in the schools unfortunately follows with that.

I have no problem with removing the one-percenters who really don't get corrected.

Because I'm in favor of the vast majority.



I love the way you characterize kids as "BAD" and "NON-BAD". This is the problem. When you start categorizing kids as "BAD" and "NON-BAD" instead of seeing them as "KIDS", you have created a monster. A kid can do bad things, but this does not mean the kid is "BAD". We might be rich here in Fairfax County, but who is so rich that they can throw people away by labeling them "BAD" when they are kids? Zero tolerance is the theory we hold up as our justification for handing out ridiculous punishments to "KIDS". Yes, lives have been ruined and people like "Parental Opinion" don't care and use the excuse that they are "in favor of the vast majority".

I think the "vast majority" are speaking out right now and they don't like the way things are being done. Thankfully, the system has heard from them and hopefully will soon be doing something about it. We can't afford to throw our "KIDS" away. We must help them. Yes, some of these "KIDS" need help---but how does the system as it is now help them? Why doesn't FCPS keep statistics on the outcomes of their "actions"? Are those "actions" meant to help the kid who needs help, to punish that kid and his family, to keep that kid away from the "NON-BAD" kids or ??? What is the purpose and how does it serve the kids and their families? That is what needs to be addressed.

Riiiiight.....the situation here is a bunch of toddlers walking around getting baked.

16 year olds make stupid decisions but so do 40 year olds. And when those decisions endanger and infringe upon the rights of others, those "kids" Need to be removed. Transfer to another high school is a second chance, and if you can't see that, then I think the real problem is you really don't think what the law and science says about marijuana is true.

Which is certainly your right. But let's not pretend this is about the "kids"

"16 year olds make stupid decisions but so do 40 year olds."

I agree and it's good to see the 40 year olds making some revisions.

I think the real problem is you really don't think what the law and science says about marijuana is true."





What the law and science say about humans under age 18 is relevant. Someone under age 18 should have their parents informed when something happens at school. Someone under 18 is not the same as someone who is 40. I get that.

Where is the common sense in all of this?

Of course, we don't want "bad eggs" corrupting the good ones--but is a kid really a "bad egg" if he/she makes one mistake?

One reason our court system has a juvenile system is because most realize that kids under 18 sometimes do very stupid things that do not reflect on their character. They are supposed to get HELP to change their ways.

As far as expulsion, I think there may be cases where it is appropriate--for example, the senior class President who is popping drugs in the yearbook room. A kid like this is a leader who probably does not need to stay at his school. It would be the class joke and he should be held to a higher standard as a leader. I think there is a difference between a senior and a freshman or sophomore-especially one who has influence over others.

However, the Stuban case cried out for an exception. This is where the common sense comes in.

The girl at Oakton who had birth control pills probably was just crying out for attention. She was pretty stupid--but expulsion? Don't think that would be appropriate--neither the girl with acne medicine at Carson. These girls may have realized they were breaking the rules--but EXPULSION? really? and what's with keeping these kids out of school for weeks and weeks.

Kathy Smith has editorials in the Centreview and Fairfax Times. It sure is interesting how FCPS School board is now "listening" to the community. Especially, since Kathy, et. al were not listening when Tina Hone tried to get something done. (See Oct. minutes of SB meeting.)

^ the Post article on the adjudication process for the acne girl made the process seem amateurish at best, and it certainly embarrassed those officials who took part and are responsible for it, We just need some sunshine in on some of the county's decision making and then we see results. Not so much unlike, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria etc. All these deposts are gonna fall unless they start listening to the people.

gurgle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ the Post article on the adjudication process for
> the acne girl made the process seem amateurish at
> best, and it certainly embarrassed those officials
> who took part and are responsible for it, We just
> need some sunshine in on some of the county's
> decision making and then we see results. Not so
> much unlike, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria etc. All
> these deposts are gonna fall unless they start
> listening to the people.

that should been "despots."

A quick read of the postings here strongly suggests that those arguing in favor of Zero Tolerance policies do not actually understand what they are supporting. For example, "Parental Opinion" wrote:

"Bad kids should be corrected, and if that is not possible, removed from interaction with non-bad kids"

and this is

"Because I'm in favor of the vast majority"

Certainly not a very nuanced perspective, and one that does not in fact describe zero tolerance. Zero tolerance as practiced in FCPS is based on a failed principle in community policing ("Broken Windows") famously championed by Rudy Giuliani. The core concept is aggressive enforcement of the rules regardless of the circumstances. Any reasonable person would agree that there is a wide chasm between the "badness" of the student who brings acne medicine to school and a drug dealer masquerading as a student. Yet, under the policy of zero tolerance, both can and will receive the same punishment.

Citing a personal experience, one of my kids was suspended twice in elementary school for school yard tussles -- once in 4th and once in 5th grade. In the first instance, my kid was attacked by all accounts and pushed back only in self-defense. Unfortunately, fighting is fighting in the SR&R so both he and the other student were suspended. In the second instance, I think it was more "mutual" and some sort of punishment for both kids was warranted, but hardly a 3 day suspension. In both cases, the Asst. Principal explained that his hands were tied, and he had to follow the "guidelines". THAT is zero tolerance, and that is the policy some people are defending here, under the misguided notion that it means being tough on troublemakers. It doesn't. It means that proscribed behavior will be treated the same, regardless of the circumstances.

My personal opinion, based on a reading of the SR&R, is that FCPS administrators do have latitude in disciplinary matters, but typically fail to use it. Why? Fear. Not fear of the "bad" kids, but of the "helicopter" parents. Those noisy apparitions that hover over their children and do anything to protect and smooth their way in life. Schools are no different in their social dynamics than any other institution in which large numbers of people are placed. They have friendships, rivalries, criminal behavior, altruistic acts, disputes, and pecking orders; all fueled by the natural impetuousness of an immature brain. They can be scary. Helicopter parents, rather than teaching their children how to cope with the environment, bring political and legal pressure to bear on the schools to create an all but impossible "safe and secure" place. Administrators react by putting zero tolerance policies in place and then claim that they are maintaining order. Events suggest otherwise.

Let me head off the argument that I'm somehow indifferent to or even advocating for "the blackboard jungle". I teach, and my students are old enough to legally buy guns. Schools, all of our institutions, should be made as safe as possible. But this is not happening or going to happen with the pretense of zero tolerance. Frankly, this policy is not about being hard but just on those who "break the rules"; it's about keeping the words "school", "system" and "liability" out of the same sentence.

TheProfessor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [A book]

Nonsense.

"Zero Tolerance" is an inflamatory term used by a bunch of losers to describe a well-documented, multi-tiered correction process for bad kids to protect good kids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance

The term "zero tolerance" has a pretty long history. It has been well-documented (not so sure about "multi-tiered"?). See link above.

The problem is black and white thinking- you see "good and bad kids", well let me tell you, without a doubt, your "good kid" quickly becomes their "bad kid" when they are standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, or are out of favor with some subjective interpretation of the existing, poorly trained, administration. It doesn't take much to get an administrative credential, and once in the system, they ALL comply, it is a culture. And those of you who blindly support it just make it worse. I see it everyday-once your kids is entrapped you change your tune. You just don't care unless it is at your doorstep. My favorite FCPS parentism is: "Well, I didn't have a good education and it didn't kill me." Wow, what a high standard, glad you got your real estate dollars worth. WAKE UP.

community oriented policing (since I worked on the original research) is based on the concept that when you create an environment of trust prevention of crime takes place. (responsible citizens take pride in their community and work with the police because they have a relationship in place) If that were instituted in FCPS it would work.

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...your "good kid" quickly becomes their
> "bad kid"...

Lol! I giggle in your general direction.

This unsupported crap keeps on getting spewed by your ilk yet the VAST majority of students end up being consistent full-academic-lifetime non-bad kids.

How strange!

Please define "VAST majority". FCPS has a 10% dropout rate (and that's the reported rate, so you know the real rate is more than that). Another 15% are in the SpEd program. At least 15% are in ESL. 25% are on free or reduced lunch. Then you throw in kids who have "family issues" (going through divorce, illness, new stepparent, abuse, you name it and we've got it). I'm not saying that those kids are "BAD"---they are honestly pretty good. What I'm saying is that FCPS deals with a huge diverse population and much of that population can very easily slip into anger, misunderstandings or stress that leads to all kinds of things. Kids who are angry, misunderstood and frustrated will do all kinds of crazy things out of sheer frustration. You make it sound like this county is full of happy, upperclass kids who are wonderful (Lake Wobegon perhaps?).

Also please define what a "consistent full-academic-lifetime non-bad kid" is. A lot of the kids I know are a bit more complicated than that term suggests. The fact that humans are complicated is what cries out for rules that are not "one size fits all".

We live in a very complex place. You make it sound easy. I don't think you have gotten outside of your neighborhood much.

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is black and white thinking- you see
> "good and bad kids", well let me tell you, without
> a doubt, your "good kid" quickly becomes their
> "bad kid" when they are standing in the wrong
> place at the wrong time, or are out of favor with
> some subjective interpretation of the existing,
> poorly trained, administration. It doesn't take
> much to get an administrative credential, and once
> in the system, they ALL comply, it is a culture.
> And those of you who blindly support it just make
> it worse. I see it everyday-once your kids is
> entrapped you change your tune. You just don't
> care unless it is at your doorstep. My favorite
> FCPS parentism is: "Well, I didn't have a good
> education and it didn't kill me." Wow, what a high
> standard, glad you got your real estate dollars
> worth. WAKE UP.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
most "good kids" dont get involved in, or get near "wrong places at wrong times"

normally, they are too busy living their lives, those "good kids"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools
Posted by: look around and really "see" ()
Date: April 03, 2011 10:08AM

Please define "VAST majority". FCPS has a 10% dropout rate (and that's the reported rate, so you know the real rate is more than that). Another 15% are in the SpEd program. At least 15% are in ESL. 25% are on free or reduced lunch. Then you throw in kids who have "family issues" (going through divorce, illness, new stepparent, abuse, you name it and we've got it). I'm not saying that those kids are "BAD"---they are honestly pretty good. What I'm saying is that FCPS deals with a huge diverse population and much of that population can very easily slip into anger, misunderstandings or stress that leads to all kinds of things. Kids who are angry, misunderstood and frustrated will do all kinds of crazy things out of sheer frustration. You make it sound like this county is full of happy, upperclass kids who are wonderful (Lake Wobegon perhaps?).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, what sorta crack you smoking, bro? You missed that dropout rate by a whole decimal point LoLz

http://www.fcps.edu/about/stats.htm

which if you scroll down, says: The dropout rate for school year 2007-08 was 1.5 percent.

I was all like WTF when I saw you say "10 percent" and was like NO WAY! Glad I know how to use this nifty interweb thingee - you should learn it, yo :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Also please define what a "consistent full-academic-lifetime non-bad kid" is. A lot of the kids I know are a bit more complicated than that term suggests. The fact that humans are complicated is what cries out for rules that are not "one size fits all".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I think I can define it!! Actually, that SAME PAGE defines them pretty well:

• The new four-year Virginia on-time graduation rate for Fairfax County was 91.2 percent for 2008 high school graduates.
• 92.6 percent of high school graduates continue on to some form of postsecondary
• FCPS students in the class of 2008 had an average combined score of 1654. This far exceeds the average combined scores of 1522 in Virginia and 1511 in the nation.
• In 2007-08, 63.1 percent of graduates earned advanced diplomas.
• The number of FCPS students taking Advanced Placement exams rose from 10,313 in 2002 to 14,365 in 2008.

THESE are the "good kids", ok?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We live in a very complex place. You make it sound easy. I don't think you have gotten outside of your neighborhood much.
-----------------------------------------------
says the person who thinks there is a ten percent dropout rate in Fairfax County. Need to put down the pipe and get out more yrself, yo...................

You can't tell anything from what is posted on that site. If you are looking at who dropped out of 12th grade in 2007-08, yes, it was probably 1.5 percent.

Here's the deal---most kids do not drop out in 12th grade. They drop out in 9th, 10th, or 11th. You have to add those students in. The "drop out rate" is only as meaningful as what the definition of "drop out rate" is. You have to measure the total number of drop outs for any given grade as they go through all of high school if you really want to get a meaningful number.

Another thing---why do you think there are not statistics on the kids who go through the expulsion process? The public is asking for those stats and they can't seem to come up with them.

I am not smoking anything. You, on the other hand, are drinking the kool aid.


Even if Fairfax is so great, don't they have some duty to educate everyone (even the ones who don't have a 1664 SAT score?) Isn't that sort of a law?

Okay.

I just saw the 4 year graduation rate further down on your post. It is one of the bullets which reads:

The new four-year Virginia on-time graduation rate for Fairfax County was 91.2 percent for 2008 high school graduates.


So, that means the drop out rate for 2008 was 8.8%.

I was off by 1.2% for the class of 2008.

not what you think Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The new four-year Virginia on-time graduation rate
> for Fairfax County was 91.2 percent for 2008 high
> school graduates.
>
>
> So, that means the drop out rate for 2008 was
> 8.8%.

No, that means the non-graduation rate was 8.8%.

Parental Opinion Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> No, that means the non-graduation rate was 8.8%.


Most abject apologies. This SHOUDL read:

>>> No, that means the non-graduation rate and the not-on-time-graduation rate sum to 8.8%.

BTW - I'm still trying to figure out why the 1.5% dropout rate isn't exactly correct...

Does the dropout rate include those that quit during the summer? For example, a juniot that does not enroll for Senior year?

Parental Opinion wrote:

not what you think Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The new four-year Virginia on-time graduation rate
> for Fairfax County was 91.2 percent for 2008 high
> school graduates.
>
>
> So, that means the drop out rate for 2008 was
> 8.8%.

No, that means the non-graduation rate was 8.8%.


What is the difference between the "non graduation rate" and the "drop out rate"? Please enlighten me. That kool aid is getting pretty sweet.

The school board screwed up again by bowing down to the masses and changing the policy. 98% of the kids never had a problem and we bow to the the masses in the loud 2% "cause their kids would never do the things they were blamed for".

Mommy and Daddy need 2 get over it kick your brat in the ass and tell them that they are responsible for their actions. Their parents will stand beside them when they admit to screwing up but they need 2 cowboy up and accept the punishment for what they have done. I don't know why the meetings were not recorded in the past that should have been a given.


Don't start with kids killed them selves because of the school boards punishment. Their lives were screwed up before they stepped on the carpet at the tower of power on gatehouse road. their parents apparntly did not see the problem or that their kid was dumb enough to bring drugs to school. I'm sure that alot of the kids that we don't hear about that screwed up and got either moved out to another school or expelled had their PO on speed dial and regular run in with the police.

It was fine worked for 98% of students.

The dropout rate for school year 2007-08 was 1.5 percent.



The new four-year Virginia on-time graduation rate
> for Fairfax County was 91.2 percent for 2008 high
> school graduates.


Ask yourself how there can be this discrepancy. Why is there a 7.3% discrepancy between these two statements. If 1.5 percent drop out, why is the graduation rate 91.2%?

My "guess" is that the first statement is the "drop out rate" for the class of 2007-2008 for the senior year (I may be wrong, but this might make sense). The second statement is the so called "non graduation" rate for the whole 4 years that the class of 2008 was in high school. I would be very surprised if 7.3% of the senior class suddenly "dropped out" or could not graduate their senior year. This would be very unusual IMO. If someone wants to call it a "non graduation" rate instead of a "drop out" rate, that is their perogative. What we then need to know is how many graduate in 5 years or 6 years. The whole thing is not very easy to figure out from the data given on that web page. Why would the "drop out rate" be different from the "non graduation rate"? By a factor of over 4? That needs to be explained.

You need to think about this stuff and ask questions. It needs to be better expalined.

I assume the latter posters have figured out that "dropout" and "nongraduation" are different things by now.

Otherwise I'll leave it as an exercise for ...wall...the reader.

blame the parents not the system

2 arrests in beating of 73-year-old crossing guard

Published April 02, 2011
| Associated Press
Print Email Share Comments (475) Text Size LANSING, Mich. – Police have arrested two Michigan parents they say beat a 73-year-old school crossing guard after he tried to break up a fight between their son and another 7-year-old boy.

Lt. Noel Garcia tells the Lansing State Journal the boys were involved in an altercation at Lyons Elementary School on Wednesday. Garcia says the next morning the parents drove to the area, let out their son and told him to beat the other boy.

Garcia says the couple's 7-year-old punched the other child, knocking him to the ground. When the crossing guard intervened, Garcia says the couple attacked him.

The State Journal says the parents were arrested Friday and are expected to be arraigned Monday on charges of assault or assault and battery and contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Please explain the relevance of the above post to this thread. What does that incident have to do with "zero tolerance in Fairfax County schools"?

i was kicked out of school for insubordination my first time ever getting in trouble all i did was walk out on the assistant principal because he told me the class education for employment is an easy A and i don't think you need that class

oh yea an im black and we all know virginia is one of the most racist states in america

You are an idiot if you think the "good kids" are busy being good kids. I see them in therapy wringing their hands at the unrealistic expectations of parents, teachers and this dumb-ass community that spews out what is perceived as "over-achievers" when in reality they are drugged( "prescription meds"-probably 50% think they have ADD because they have any kind of emotion and affect left), depressed and have completely empty lives. Stop fooling yourselves.

Parenting should include Reagan's philosophy:

"Trust but verify."

Peer pressure is a very strong force. Sometimes "good kids" become friends with other "good kids" that have gone astray. I've known parents who were so thrilled that their kids were "popular" or were included with some other groups that they did not pay attention.

I've known parents that I thought were responsible--people that I liked and thought knew better--that had Kegs in the basement for their freshmen. Kids are going to find their own trouble without help from parents. Just because you take the car keys does not make it right.

And, people, marijuana today is not the same as in the 70's. Nevertheless, It is illegal and you must teach the kids that.

That does not mean that I support FCPS policy. But, don't fool yourselves into thinking that some of the activities of these kids are not dangerous.

Some of the FCPS judges require that parents go through driver training with their kids when they get a ticket. Perhaps, FCPS should require 20 hours of anti-drug training for parents and kids together when the kids get in trouble. That would be real punishment. I bet some of the parents would say to just expel them!

logicaldog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [junk]

You have misunderstood what this (and the myriad others!) thread is about.

It isn't (or...er...wasn't) about whether or not kids do drugs or alcohol or fight or swear or whatever.

It is about if they do that in school what should happen to isolate them from the ones who do not. Or not.

I personally am for the total legalization of ALL drugs and the making of The Problem into a social one, not a criminal one.

But that doesn't have anything to do with how one protects the vast majority of the kids IN SCHOOL from the jerks who think (1) they can violate the rules and (2) should get away with it. I want my so-far-so-good kid protected from the jerks she doesn't (currently) socialize with whose behavior IS detrimental to scholastic work.

The SR&R gives most such losers at least one second chance. Often more.

Then kicks there asses out of the system so the GOOD kids don't suffer.

Parental Opinion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This unsupported crap keeps on getting spewed by your ilk yet the VAST majority of students end up being consistent full-academic-lifetime non-bad kids.
>
> How strange!<

69,000 FCPS kids got into disciplinary trouble last year out of 175,000 students according to FCPS's own numbers. Since most of those 69,000 involved kids in junior high and high school which account for 81,000 kids, good kids are getting into trouble. 70% of secondary kids are getting into trouble.

It's endemic to being a teenager.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [example from the book "How to Lie With Statistics]

I think you need to re-examine your numbers.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Parental Opinion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This unsupported crap keeps on getting spewed by
> your ilk yet the VAST majority of students end up
> being consistent full-academic-lifetime non-bad
> kids.
> >
> > How strange!<
>
> 69,000 FCPS kids got into disciplinary trouble
> last year out of 175,000 students according to
> FCPS's own numbers. Since most of those 69,000
> involved kids in junior high and high school which
> account for 81,000 kids, good kids are getting
> into trouble. 70% of secondary kids are getting
> into trouble.
>
> It's endemic to being a teenager.
------------------------------------------------------------

oh noes.......the TROUBLES!!!!

meanwhile, most of those kids STILL GRADUATED!

-------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Dell ()
Date: April 03, 2011 03:10PM

oh yea an im black and we all know virginia is one of the most racist states in america
-------------------------------------------------------------

wah wah wah -- well, if you feel that way, MOVE!
or how about this? MAN UP, get yrself STRAIGHT, and dont fuck around with authority (I mean, since you "know" they are out to "get you cause you are black", then that makes you kinda stupid to fuck with them and give them the excuse to mess up yr future) - get a degree and change the system instead of just crying about it all day long.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: logicaldog ()
Date: April 03, 2011 03:57PM

You are an idiot if you think the "good kids" are busy being good kids. I see them in therapy wringing their hands at the unrealistic expectations of parents, teachers and this dumb-ass community that spews out what is perceived as "over-achievers" when in reality they are drugged( "prescription meds"-probably 50% think they have ADD because they have any kind of emotion and affect left), depressed and have completely empty lives. Stop fooling yourselves.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you are right about the over-drugging of our children. You are DEAD WRONG to think it's only epidimic to this region, however. Either way, that doesnt make them not "good kids" as you infer

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good kids are getting into trouble.

Either the parent of an incorrigible miscreant or someone mired in and complacent with mediocrity.

If the good kids are getting into trouble, they must not be good kids then.

I never got suspended or so much as detention in high school. I don't see what's so hard about following a few simple rules.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the good kids are getting into trouble, they
> must not be good kids then.
>
> I never got suspended or so much as detention in
> high school. I don't see what's so hard about
> following a few simple rules.

Because parents refuse to accept they raised a little shithead. There is no way the little shithead would cause trouble, so it must be a problem with the system or the teacher. Little shithead is NEVER to blame.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the good kids are getting into trouble, they
> must not be good kids then.
>
> I never got suspended or so much as detention in
> high school. I don't see what's so hard about
> following a few simple rules.
-------------------------------------------------------------

well, apparently there are more rules now. I mean, back then, they didnt even have electricity so it was more easy for you :)


I keed - I KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well, apparently there are more rules now.

Actually, I think it was harder in the past than it is today.

Wear a piercing to school? Take it out or go home.

Wear a skirt or shorts that's too short? Cover up or go home.

Caught using tobacco? Suspension.

Caught with any drugs of any amount? Expulsion.

Say anything disrespectful to a teacher? Detention, at least.

The difference between then and now is back then, the parents wouldn't argue with the school that it was only "a little bit of drugs" or "the first time Junior was caught smoking" or "Little Suzie should be allowed to leave school grounds during lunch if she wants." The school would punish you, and the parents would hold you responsible for your own fuck-up. The student handbook was about 10 pages long; it didn't need to spell everything out in 60 pages like you're some sort of simpleton.

"Don't bring drugs or weapons to school, don't get into fights, and don't dress like a whore." It wasn't really that complicated.

Now, though, they have to write everything at the 4th grade level to make sure that simpleton parents can relay these incredibly complex policies to their simpleton children.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > well, apparently there are more rules now.
>
> Actually, I think it was harder in the past than
> it is today.
>
> Wear a piercing to school? Take it out or go
> home.
>
> Wear a skirt or shorts that's too short? Cover up
> or go home.
>
> Caught using tobacco? Suspension.
>
> Caught with any drugs of any amount? Expulsion.
>
> Say anything disrespectful to a teacher?
> Detention, at least.
>
> The difference between then and now is back then,
> the parents wouldn't argue with the school that it
> was only "a little bit of drugs" or "the first
> time Junior was caught smoking" or "Little Suzie
> should be allowed to leave school grounds during
> lunch if she wants." The school would punish you,
> and the parents would hold you responsible for
> your own fuck-up. The student handbook was about
> 10 pages long; it didn't need to spell everything
> out in 60 pages like you're some sort of
> simpleton.
>
> "Don't bring drugs or weapons to school, don't get
> into fights, and don't dress like a whore." It
> wasn't really that complicated.
>
> Now, though, they have to write everything at the
> 4th grade level to make sure that simpleton
> parents can relay these incredibly complex
> policies to their simpleton children.


I disagree that is was harder to obey the rules way back when. I graduated from HS in the mid-80's in NY, and we had a designated 'student smoking area'. You could get in trouble for smoking in the bathrooms, but why bother when you could step outside and smoke? Girls could wear halter tops, lots of piercings even then, and pretty much any display of affection short of intercourse was tolerated in the hallways. Fights were dealt with by the principal, and there were not cops stationed at the hallway. Kids got arrested for doing things outside of school, and the school did not get involved AT ALL. I graduated with someone who was charged with manslaughter, and he kept showing up to class.

So it wasn't always 'this way'.

The schools need discipline and rules, but what FCPS has now is a perversion of that concept. Throwing someone out for 1 acne pill is absurd. They have lost all perspective on their educational mission. It's rules for rules sake. FCPS makes things forbidden that are allowed every other place than child goes, and when they trip the kids up, it's mandatory expulsion.

I was in high school in the 90s. School in the 80s sounded awesome.

But, they didn't throw that girl out for 1 acne pill. They threw her out for having a bottle of unregistered prescription medication.

The school is not entirely to blame for the current state of affairs, and I really don't envy their position. Imagine if Acne Girl gave one of those pills to another girl, and Girl 2 had a bad reaction, forcing her to go to the hospital. Girl 2's parents would be calling for Acne Girl's head, and if the school didn't punish her, Girl 2's parents would try to sue.

It's less about "rules for rules' sake" and more about "protecting ourselves when one of these nutjob parents tries to sue us."

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was in high school in the 90s. School in the
> 80s sounded awesome.
>
> But, they didn't throw that girl out for 1 acne
> pill. They threw her out for having a bottle of
> unregistered prescription medication.
>
> The school is not entirely to blame for the
> current state of affairs, and I really don't envy
> their position. Imagine if Acne Girl gave one of
> those pills to another girl, and Girl 2 had a bad
> reaction, forcing her to go to the hospital. Girl
> 2's parents would be calling for Acne Girl's head,
> and if the school didn't punish her, Girl 2's
> parents would try to sue.
>
> It's less about "rules for rules' sake" and more
> about "protecting ourselves when one of these
> nutjob parents tries to sue us."


your are TOTALLY right, bro

back in our day, our parents listened to when the office called them, saying we were fucking up in school.

Nowadays, we have stuck up parents who will file multi-million dollar lawsuits on the school system instead of parent their stupid kids

http://www.komonews.com/news/35111064.html

http://theinsanityreport.com/home/index.php/2010/02/24/news/parents-need-to-get-a-handle-on-their-kids/

Reagan wasn't much of a role model and didn't have a very good track record on parenting.

I am not related to "big dog" who is really a big moron and probably a product of FCPS. Sad for you, you sound like a kid or something.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Girl 2's parents would try to sue.

First, Girls 2's parents suit would be thrown out at the first hearing.

Second, the number of suits have gone up in reaction to the "hang'em high" policies. So the policy has been counterproductive, if that's the motivation.

But that's not the motivation.

These policies come from a mistaken belief that there are hundreds of "bad kids" who must be destroyed so that the rest are safe.

It's not based on research but mythology.

The research shows that zero tolerance is counterproductive.

Re: Zero-Tolerance Policy in Fairfax County Public Schools new
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: April 05, 2011 08:23AM

The research shows that zero tolerance is counterproductive

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, show us the research.

I say blaming the schools for kids breaking the rules is the REAL counter-productiveness here.

It's not like they are "stealth" rules or anything.

here's a British article that says what you are saying - you have GOT to love the first line in it!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-158251/School-drug-policy-counter-productive.html

first line: Schools' zero tolerance policies on drugs may be counter-productive because they simply lead children to conceal their drug problems, Home Office research says.

ROFLMAO!!!

cause, as we all know, it was much better before zero-tolerance, when you could just openly use drugs during class, right? o_0

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The research shows that zero tolerance is
> counterproductive.

Nonsense.

You are using a POV of the "bad" kids - of COURSE quarantine is not good for the bad kids; it hurts, it's a big bother, it impacts them for sure.

But quarantine (we're talking worst-case actions here, not just a piddling suspension) work dramatically well for the vast majority of the student body.

Cut out the cancer, isolate the disease, the "good" kids ARE protected.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was in high school in the 90s. School in the
> 80s sounded awesome.
>
> But, they didn't throw that girl out for 1 acne
> pill. They threw her out for having a bottle of
> unregistered prescription medication.
>
> The school is not entirely to blame for the
> current state of affairs, and I really don't envy
> their position. Imagine if Acne Girl gave one of
> those pills to another girl, and Girl 2 had a bad
> reaction, forcing her to go to the hospital. Girl
> 2's parents would be calling for Acne Girl's head,
> and if the school didn't punish her, Girl 2's
> parents would try to sue.
>
> It's less about "rules for rules' sake" and more
> about "protecting ourselves when one of these
> nutjob parents tries to sue us."

If you want to see the difference in the times, go back and watch a '80's PG movie. What was PG then will get you an 'R' now.

On topic....

I agree that litigious parents makes it very much harder on the administrators to make sound judgements and not be dragged into court. But who are you going to let call the tune on this - the 5 or 10% of the parents that will sue no matter what you do, or the 90% who can deal with reasonable judgements and attempt to properly parent thier children.

If you look at the stats, I think it was over 5000 expulsions that went through the Hearing Office and not a single child exonerated. The whole process feels so un-American. No one ever cleared of an infraction, interrogations without parents present, coerced confessions...it just feels wrong. Expelling kids for violence or drugs is fine by me, but to do it based on a mere accusation from another student or a coerced confession, when the consequences are so high? No adult would ever stand for such treatment at the hands of the authorities.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First, Girls 2's parents suit would be thrown out
> at the first hearing.

Maybe in this particular case. But, if the school just let Acne girl off the hook, then other parents would scream "discrimination" or "bias" when their precious snowflake is found with an unregistered bottle of percoset.

> Second, the number of suits have gone up in
> reaction to the "hang'em high" policies. So the
> policy has been counterproductive, if that's the
> motivation.

They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Parents won't let them do their jobs and stay out of their way, so this is the result.

> But that's not the motivation.
>
> These policies come from a mistaken belief that
> there are hundreds of "bad kids" who must be
> destroyed so that the rest are safe.
>
> It's not based on research but mythology.
>
> The research shows that zero tolerance is
> counterproductive.

What research?

And I'd love to see some numbers on how many kids are actually suspended/expelled vs. the ones that aren't. Chances are, it's only a very small percent of kids that are crying abou this policy being too harsh.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I have rad a lot of the comments on on here, some are very intelligent and well thought out and a lot are just people spouting off without knowing how the system works and how our tax dollars are being used.

My son was targeted by the school system when he was involved in a prank that happened over the summer and not involving the Fairfax County School system in any way. The school, tipped of by the county police, decided that they would move my son into an alternative program...basically, they put him into a quasi-school where he was surrounded by some other students that had some minor indiscretions but more importantly, he was introduced to students that suffer from a whole new level of mischief, drugs and mental illness. This Zero Tolerance policy works to put children in a contained area, much like a jail, without the help and resources they need to get past their underlying issues and then others like my son are then labeled and brought down by the system and helped in no way whatsoever.

The problem with the school system, is that there is no due process. Our children do make poor decisions at times, and yes it does ruin their lives. There is a cost of all of this too...The private tutors, the running of these alternative programs and creating a burden on society because the school system is only intent on hiding problems and moving any "perceived" problem child out of a school setting an into a special program and not actually dealing with the root causes of drugs, mental illness, ADHD and even misbehavior that is often a cry for help.

Another issue I have with the Fairfax School system is that they have integrated school resource officers into the school system to truly create a police state within the schools. Police officers should NOT be the norm in a school setting. Yes, there will be time when students may cross the line into serious criminal behavior( harming others, robbery or other felonies) where police do need to take the front seat. But in general, Schools need to more of an advocate for helping kids learn and grow. Last time I heard, we all learn from mistakes and grow from experience.

Principal's and school board members are for the Zero tolerance enforcement because it allows them to get more federal funding by giving the appearance of higher grades and graduation rates. instead of having these "Problem" children possibly effecting their numbers they simply move them to alternative programs that are used to push kids through the system and give them a diploma, notice I said GIVE and not EARN. Thanks to the No Child Left Behind rules.

The sum of all this is, let's stop this Police state and help kids whenever we can, jumping to conclusions and putting kids in programs pre-maturely serves only one purpose - to make the school system appear to be responsive and to remove any perceived problem child out of the mainstream...Neither solves any of the underlying problems.

I notice much of the posting of parents with kids in the discipline process does not include just opting out into private school. I know it's lots of $, but if it's a choice between sending my somewhat deliquent child off to be truly educated by the highly deliquent, or paying up for a private school - well, that's an easy choice.

I wonder if some of the other choices in people's lives (houses, cars, vacations, etc) don't put them in a position where they are totally dependent upon FCPS for education. Perhaps if you as parents were a little more focused on your kids potential needs (Little Johnny might have a learning/discipline/other issue someday, and we may need to be able to pay for private school, so let's pass on the 60" flat screen), you would not find yourself at the mercy of the FCPS bureaucracy.

Not a sermon, just a thought......

The numbers are: 2008-09 school year

7-12th grades and the last # is total


Annandale High School 0 0 10 8 22 18 58


Bryant Alternative High School 0 1 7 22 43 42 115

Carl Sandburg Middle School 1 1 0 0 0 0 2
Centreville High School 0 0 2 2 6 9 19
Chantilly High School 0 0 2 2 12 13 29
Fairfax/Falls Church Community SVCS BD Schools 1 1 7 0 3 0 12
Edgar Allen Poe Middle School 1 1 0 0 0 0 2
Fairfax High School 0 0 3 4 11 9 27
Falls Church High School 0 0 5 6 14 9 34
Francis Scott Key Middle School 2 0 0 0 0 0 2
George C. Marshall High School 0 0 3 2 4 5 14
Hayfield Secondary School 1 0 5 6 10 6 28
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Middle School 5 0 0 0 0 0 5
Herndon High School 0 0 11 10 15 12 48
Herndon Middle School 3 1 0 0 0 0 4
J.E.B. Stuart High School 0 0 13 17 17 15 62
James Fenimore Cooper Middle School 1 1 0 0 0 0 2
James Madison High School 0 0 1 0 2 2 5
James W. Robinson Jr. Secondary School 0 1 3 6 3 15 28
Lake Braddock Secondary School 2 0 4 3 5 5 19
Langley High School 0 0 1 2 0 3 6
Langston Hughes Middle School 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
Liberty Middle School 3 0 0 0 0 0 3
Luther Jackson Middle School 2 1 0 0 0 0 3
Mark Twain Middle School 5 1 0 0 0 0 6
McLean High School 0 0 0 1 4 7 12
Mount Vernon High School 0 0 13 12 19 15 59

Mountain View Alternative High School 0 0 0 9 23 22 54

Oakton High School 0 0 3 3 7 7 20
Oliver Wendell Holmes Middle School 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
Ormond Stone Middle School 1 0 0 0 0 0 1

Pimmit Hills Alternative High School 0 0 5 15 13 10 43

Rachel Carson Middle School 0 2 0 0 0 0 2
Robert E. Lee High School 0 0 7 13 15 12 47
Robert Frost Middle School 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
Sidney Lanier Middle School 2 3 0 0 0 0 5
South County Secondary School 0 1 3 4 9 13 30
South Lakes High School 0 0 2 6 10 8 26

> ...The numbers are: 2008-09 school year...

That doesn't add up to 69,000....what's going on?

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My son was targeted by the school system when he
> was involved in a prank

This is where you lost my sympathy...

> The school, tipped of by the county police

... and this is where you gained my ire.

Do tell, what was the harmless little prank your precious snowflake was involved in that merited involvement from the police?

> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> This Zero Tolerance policy works to put children
> in a contained area, much like a jail, without the
> help and resources they need to blah blah blah

No, it doesn't. The school is not a substitute for your parenting. If your child has "underlying issues" that need to be addressed, that is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT.

> The problem with the school system, is that there
> is no due process.

Ignoring the fact that it's school and not the criminal justice system, yes, there is an appeal process. You, as a parent, have the right to appeal the decision a several points in the process. Just because your "it was a harmless prank" argument didn't work DOESN'T mean there is no "due process."

> Our children do make poor
> decisions at times, and yes it does ruin their
> lives.

Your child did. There are a lot of children that don't.

> blah blah blah Police State blah blah blah

Let's look at a biased source: http://fairfaxzerotolerancereform.org/images/ZT_Overview_Factsheet_20110310v1.pdf

Their facts sheet says "In the six years from 2004-2010, the FCPS Hearings Office heard 5,024 cases that resulted in long-term suspensions or expulsions - not one was overturned." Neat!

Now consider that there's about 170,000 students per year enrolled in the county's schools every year. 170,000 multiplied by 6... carry the 2... There were approximately 1.02 million students in the school system in the same six-year time period.

That translates into one long-term suspension or expulsion for every 203 students over a six year period, or an approximate 0.5% long-term suspension/expulsion rate.

Obvious question: if the Zero-Tolerance Policy is so draconian and unfair, how are 99.5% of students able to get through the school system without being suspended?

The Zero-Tolerance Reform Fact Sheet also mentions there were 10,000 disciplinary issues in 2008-2009. That's one in seventeen students.

No sympathy.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now consider that there's about 170,000 students
> per year enrolled in the county's schools every
> year. 170,000 multiplied by 6... carry the 2...
> There were approximately 1.02 million students in
> the school system in the same six-year time
> period.
>

You've got a math problem there. 6 year period with 170,000 students in 13 grades (K-12). Assuming a even disribution across grades, that's a turnover of about 13,000 per year (Seniors graduate, kindergardener's start). So you are talking about 170,000 students plus 5 years * 13,000 = 235,000 students. I did not account for people moving in and out. Maybe that pushes it up another 10 or 20K.

It ain't 1M.

show your work Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You've got a math problem there. 6 year period
> with 170,000 students in 13 grades (K-12).
> Assuming a even disribution across grades, that's
> a turnover of about 13,000 per year (Seniors
> graduate, kindergardener's start). So you are
> talking about 170,000 students plus 5 years *
> 13,000 = 235,000 students. I did not account for
> people moving in and out. Maybe that pushes it up
> another 10 or 20K.
>
> It ain't 1M.

There's approximately 170,000 students enrolled per year across the FCPS system.

http://www.fcps.edu/statis.htm

The actual projected number for 2010-2011 was 175,296. If there's 175k students in 2010-2011, it stands to reason there would have been approximately the same number of students in 2009-2010 with the turnover rate you mentioned.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Mr. Mephisto...

Harmless prank was lighting fireworks near a neighbors yard...Yes that's it.... Definitely a cause for the actions that the school took. The officer that responded to the complaint was the school resource officer when school resumed.

You are an ass. As for the numbers you state for cases overturned it does not surprise me, the review process is by another area within the public school system at the direction of the Superintendent, a true shocker that nothing is overturned.

By the way, as a former county officer I speak with some knowledge of the criminal justice system and how the county works and I was not looking for your sympathy. I am a very good parent and have done what I need to ensure my son gets the education that the county did not provide. Not everybody has resources to do that.

People should not attack those on here who are trying to highlight an issue, disagree if you want but until you have experienced some of these events you truly have no idea.

> Harmless prank was lighting fireworks near a neighbors yard...

What did he blow up? What was he charged with?

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> show your work Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You've got a math problem there. 6 year period
> > with 170,000 students in 13 grades (K-12).
> > Assuming a even disribution across grades,
> that's
> > a turnover of about 13,000 per year (Seniors
> > graduate, kindergardener's start). So you are
> > talking about 170,000 students plus 5 years *
> > 13,000 = 235,000 students. I did not account
> for
> > people moving in and out. Maybe that pushes it
> up
> > another 10 or 20K.
> >
> > It ain't 1M.
>
> There's approximately 170,000 students enrolled
> per year across the FCPS system.
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/statis.htm
>
> The actual projected number for 2010-2011 was
> 175,296. If there's 175k students in 2010-2011, it
> stands to reason there would have been
> approximately the same number of students in
> 2009-2010 with the turnover rate you mentioned.


The school system does not turnover 170,000 students per year. It turns over the number graduated. So if there are 170,000 this year, and a class graduates of 13,000, and a new crop of Kindergardener's arrive in the fall, the total number of unique students that attended FCPS in those two years is 193,000, not 340,000. To get a per student ratio for disciplinary actions, you need to divide by the total number of students over that period time, not the annual enrollment * membership.

There are 170,000 student/year, so you could say in 1M student years over 6 years....but not 1M students.

He taped some fire crackers together...charged with manufacturing an explosive device...charges were reduced to fireworks violation in court.

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He taped some fire crackers together...charged
> with manufacturing an explosive device...charges
> were reduced to fireworks violation in court.

Yup - just looked up explosive on arrest database:

"BAGLINI ","MICHAEL ","A","046"," 13513","PORTAGE ","PL","CENTREVILLE ","VA","07/27/2007","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"BARTH ","SIMON ","E","019"," 1911","FOX HALL ","RD","MCLEAN ","VA","07/24/2009","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"BROWER ","RANDY ","D","018"," 4212","SUMMIT ","PL","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","08/12/2003","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"DAVIS ","WESLEY ","E","019"," 8462","MONARCH ","CT","ANNANDALE ","VA","05/27/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"EARLEY ","ROBERT ","A","019"," 1756","PIMMIT ","DR","FALLS CHURCH","VA","06/15/2005","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"FRIEDLAND ","JEFFREY ","D","030"," 10900","PAYNES CHURCH ","DR","FAIRFAX ","VA","10/11/2002","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GALINDO ","JAVIER ","E","019"," 7963","SAN LEANDRO ","PL","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","08/23/2006","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GOUDA ","HAZEM ","T","045"," 2811","LAURA GAE ","CI","VIENNA ","VA","04/01/2004","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"GRINGRICH ","JOSHUA ","L","019"," 7768","GRANDWIND ","DR","LORTON ","VA","08/18/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"HARP ","DENNIS ","E","019"," 5406","TRIPOLIS ","CT","BURKE ","VA","11/24/2006","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"HARRISON ","RE ","J","022"," 7505","PRINCE COLE ","CT","MANASSAS ","VA","07/16/2006","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"HAYDEN ","KYLE ","T","019"," 8429","SULKY ","CT","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","03/04/2009","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"LARA ","JOHNNY ","G","018"," 2872","GREAT OAK ","CT","FALLS CHURCH","VA","05/22/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"MCLEAN ","LEJUAN ","J","020"," 8532","HIGHLAND ","LA","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","12/02/2003","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"MCNAMARA ","GARRETT "," ","018"," 1308","ELSINORE ","AV","MCLEAN ","VA","11/29/2007","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"NAVEED ","SYED "," ","019"," 4670","SOUTHLAND ","AV","ALEXANDRIA ","VA","05/27/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"POSTOL ","RAYMOND ","R","019"," 6340","CHOWNING ","PL","MCLEAN ","VA","06/15/2005","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"ROBINSON ","JOEL ","M","019"," 9406","ULYSSES ","CT","BURKE ","VA","09/27/2004","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"ROFFMAN ","DAVID ","V","020"," 6647","HAZEL ","LN","MCLEAN ","VA","07/24/2009","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"ROSSMAN ","BRUD ","R","039"," 2321","SAWTOOH OAK ","DR","VIENNA ","VA","01/07/2003","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"TAVAMPIS ","VLASIS "," ","019"," 9122","ARLINGTON ","BV","FAIRFAX ","VA","05/23/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"TENG ","NIVAN ","K","021"," 7067","IDYLWOOD ","RD","FALLS CHURCH","VA","06/15/2005","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"WONG ","LAWRENCE "," ","018"," 3430","HOLLY ","RD","ANNANDALE ","VA","05/23/2008","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"WRAY ","STEVEN ","A","019"," 13716","ADELPH ","CT","CHANTILLY ","VA","02/29/2004","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "
"YANEZ ","JULIAN ","B","019"," 612","CAPITAL HTS ","BV","CAPITAL HTS ","MD","09/08/2006","MANU/POSS/USE/TRANS EXPLOSIVE "

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Mephisto...
>
> Harmless prank was lighting fireworks near a
> neighbors yard...Yes that's it.... Definitely a
> cause for the actions that the school took. The
> officer that responded to the complaint was the
> school resource officer when school resumed.

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than simply lighting fireworks near a neighbor's yard, but nobody ever comes on here and divulges the full story. Obviously, something happened during this "harmless prank" that merited police involvement.

First you say it was the county police that notified the school, and now you say the cop that busted your kid also worked for the school. The fact that you're writing off something your child did that necessitated police involvement as a "harmless prank" also speaks volumes.

> You are an ass.

I've been called worse by better.

> As for the numbers you state for
> cases overturned it does not surprise me, the
> review process is by another area within the
> public school system at the direction of the
> Superintendent, a true shocker that nothing is
> overturned.

It doesn't surprise you that less than one percent of FCPS students have difficulty following simple rules?

And now you're acknowledging there is a process, despite saying earlier that there was no "due process?"

> I am a very good parent and have
> done what I need to ensure my son gets the
> education that the county did not provide. Not
> everybody has resources to do that.

... except teach him the difference between criminal mischief and a "harmless prank." No, not everyone has the resources to fight suspensions or expulsions, but teaching one's child how to not be a fuck up is free.

> People should not attack those on here who are
> trying to highlight an issue, disagree if you want
> but until you have experienced some of these
> events you truly have no idea.

I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out that the overwhelming majority of parents and students have absolutely none of these problems. It's a very select few that have kids who do something a simpleton knows is wrong, then blames the school Junior's mistakes.

The real world's Zero Tolerance policies are much, much more severe than this simple shit that FCPS expects.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

show your work Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The school system does not turnover 170,000
> students per year. It turns over the number
> graduated. So if there are 170,000 this year, and
> a class graduates of 13,000, and a new crop of
> Kindergardener's arrive in the fall, the total
> number of unique students that attended FCPS in
> those two years is 193,000, not 340,000. To get a
> per student ratio for disciplinary actions, you
> need to divide by the total number of students
> over that period time, not the annual enrollment *
> membership.
>
> There are 170,000 student/year, so you could say
> in 1M student years over 6 years....but not 1M
> students.

I see what you're saying. I didn't explain it right, but that's what I was getting at. One million plus opportunities to fuck up, but only five thousand instances of actual fucking up.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He taped some fire crackers together...charged
> with manufacturing an explosive device...charges
> were reduced to fireworks violation in court.

What kind of "fire crackers?"

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

TDot has a point about School Resource Officers. They are considered POLICE and SCHOOL administrators, so they can interview your kid solo, without the School Admin. present unlike other Police Officers. In the school lingo, they are in loco parentis - like having your parents there although they are not required to notify the parents.

Its quite surprising there has not been a student shot in school by an armed SRO when you consider the odds. The SRO I encountered a few years back was a bully with a badge.

They were run of the mill black cat firecrackers

So he taped a bunch of firecrackers together and detonated them near the neighbor's property. Who called the police and why?

EDIT: Screw it, I don't care. My parents didn't buy me firecrackers because they knew, as a kid, I'd do dumb shit with them like this. I also know what would happen to me if they caught me going behind their back and getting them anyway, so I never had these problems.

Boo hoo.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2011 03:17PM by MrMephisto.

Not sure who called the police...I assume the neighbor whose yard he was standing near. There is no doubt that he should not have been playing with fireworks...but the whole situation could have been handled much better by the police not involving the school. This event had no bearing on the school system.

Mr. Mephisto,

I am just amazed at how perfect you think you are. Get a life and stop being an ass.

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Mephisto,
>
> I am just amazed at how perfect you think you are.
> Get a life and stop being an ass.


By the way, Your parents obviously did an awesome job with you. I see that you spend 99% of you time on here involving yourself in mindless bantering about issues you know nothing about.

Again, get off the couch, put the Twinkies away and get a life dude!

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So he taped a bunch of firecrackers together and
> detonated them near the neighbor's property. Who
> called the police and why?
>
> EDIT: Screw it, I don't care. My parents didn't
> buy me firecrackers because they knew, as a kid,
> I'd do dumb shit with them like this. I also know
> what would happen to me if they caught me going
> behind their back and getting them anyway, so I
> never had these problems.
>
> Boo hoo.

obviously a alck of prental supervision in this case; same with acne girl. Really surprised by the pivotal role her mum played in that debacle!

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure who called the police...I assume the
> neighbor whose yard he was standing near. There is
> no doubt that he should not have been playing with
> fireworks...but the whole situation could have
> been handled much better by the police not
> involving the school. This event had no bearing on
> the school system.

Got to agree with that. Right now, the whole system is spring loaded to crash down on kids - cops in schools to make anything that happens there a crime, and schools getting involved in basically anything that happens anywhere, not just school grounds/functions.

There was an incident not long ago of a teacher losing her job because she had a picture on Facebook of her holding a glass of wine while on vaction in Europe. Doing something totally legal, a continent away - no students involved, etc. Last year, a coach in Frederick was fired because a parent brought a six pack to a cook out at his house for the team.

So it's not just students - teachers too can get caught in this crap. Punishing people for doing entirely legal activities, completely overblown reactions to minor offenses. Everyone in the entire system is scared shitless than they will get caught doing something minor and be shown the door, or worse charged with a crime.

Yet we have real estate scam artist running one of our largest High Schools. Go figure!

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Got to agree with that. Right now, the whole
> system is spring loaded to crash down on kids -
> cops in schools to make anything that happens
> there a crime, and schools getting involved in
> basically anything that happens anywhere, not just
> school grounds/functions.
>
> There was an incident not long ago of a teacher
> losing her job because she had a picture on
> Facebook of her holding a glass of wine while on
> vaction in Europe. Doing something totally legal,
> a continent away - no students involved, etc.
> Last year, a coach in Frederick was fired because
> a parent brought a six pack to a cook out at his
> house for the team.
>
> So it's not just students - teachers too can get
> caught in this crap. Punishing people for doing
> entirely legal activities, completely overblown
> reactions to minor offenses. Everyone in the
> entire system is scared shitless than they will
> get caught doing something minor and be shown the
> door, or worse charged with a crime.
>
> Yet we have real estate scam artist running one of
> our largest High Schools. Go figure!

------------------------------------------------------

um, you do know that neither of the incidents you mentioned have anything to do with Fairfax County, right?

TDot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, Your parents obviously did an awesome
> job with you. I see that you spend 99% of you time
> on here involving yourself in mindless bantering
> about issues you know nothing about.
>
> Again, get off the couch, put the Twinkies away
> and get a life dude!

How about I put the Twinkies away and you start being a responsible parent?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Mephisto-

Not gonna argue with you that parents should parent and not the schools, but it seems that one of the basic assumptions of your argument is that, if a parent properly parents, the kid will never make a mistake.

Have you considered that not only is growing up a process, but parenting is too? I'm not a parent, but I believe that even being an excellent parent won't guarantee that your kid never messes up. the kid still has their own ability to do whatever they want in a limited manner.

Your argument to me seems sort of like "if a coach coaches a team with excellence, then that team will always be undefeated." Obviously, that's not the case; in the same manner, "if a parent raises their kid with excellence, then the kid will always have perfect behavior" seems just as absurd, yet it's a tenet you lean on consistently in your posts.

And for the record I'm a graduate of FCPS, never had any disciplinary problems, and am a student justice at the university I now go to.

50287100 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mephisto-
>
> Not gonna argue with you that parents should
> parent and not the schools, but it seems that one
> of the basic assumptions of your argument is that,
> if a parent properly parents, the kid will never
> make a mistake.
>
> Have you considered that not only is growing up a
> process, but parenting is too? I'm not a parent,
> but I believe that even being an excellent parent
> won't guarantee that your kid never messes up. the
> kid still has their own ability to do whatever
> they want in a limited manner.
>
> Your argument to me seems sort of like "if a coach
> coaches a team with excellence, then that team
> will always be undefeated." Obviously, that's not
> the case; in the same manner, "if a parent raises
> their kid with excellence, then the kid will
> always have perfect behavior" seems just as
> absurd, yet it's a tenet you lean on consistently
> in your posts.
>
> And for the record I'm a graduate of FCPS, never
> had any disciplinary problems, and am a student
> justice at the university I now go to.
---------------------------------------------------------
to Devil's Advocate, I believe Mephisto aint saying that the kid will "never make a mistake" at all.

All he's saying it that blaming the school system instead of simply DEALING with the issue at hand, is stupid.

Issues are going to happen with children. Parents should be able to handle such things, and work WITH the school system instead of fight them - if they want what's best for their kids. Take the girl who got busted for the acne medication. She got caught violating a WELL DOCUMENTED school rule. Common sense says: you take yr medicine, take the one month suspension and move on. Instead the parents and the kid decide to fight it, even though they know the kid broke the rules, and drag this crap out.

I mean, if you know the rules are there, and you know WHY the rules are there, why act like you are BETTER than the rules in place.

I dont think Mephisto is saying that kids should never get into trouble - I think he's saying IF they do, the parents should learn how to deal with the sitch (i.e actually PARENT their kids) instead of simply just blame the school rules

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>.....

Seems to make sense.

On another note, the fact of the matter is 99.9% of kids will screw up and get caught. It's just a matter of if they get caught by their parents, by the cops, or in school, etc. Whatever the percentage is of kids who face disciplinary action within FCPS, it can be said that these are simply the part of that 99.9% who screwed up in school. Because to knowingly break a rule is to "act like you are BETTER than the rules in place," it can be said that just about every kid will think themselves better than some rule at some point.

And, per my point above, the parents cannot necessarily be to blame (although there are some awful parents, of course).

So the kid screwed up at school, and the parents cannot be to blame. Therefore, the kid screwed up completely of their own accord, by their own free will, and are now a part of the FCPS disciplinary process. Just because of this simple condition of the kid (being under the FCPS process), this does not necessarily make them a "bad kid;" for a kid to screw up does not make them a "bad kid" it makes them, by nature, "immature," that is, "not mature", that is "not adult," therefore a kid. Kids by their nature screw up. To treat a kid like an adult is to ignore this fact; to levy an adult-style punishment that is arguably disproportionally high to the original crime is to ignore the nature of a child.

Some might say, "well kids are supposed to grow up in high school." Agreed, but again, should this be the role of the parents, or the school? I say the parents, but this will not always be the case if the parents want to be "cool." Nevertheless, it is not appropriate for the hearings board to attempt such a speculation.

The hearings board must recognize the innate nature of one who is not adult and, recognizing this nature, levy punishments that give a clear message to the offender that their behavior is not tolerated while, depending on the case, encourage the offender to take steps to rectify their ways. For some, the best means is to send them to another school. For others, such a displacement can be more harming than beneficial. Therefore, hearings must be examined on a case-by-case basis. Even if the point of transferring student is to remove the dangerous offender from their environment, a transfer simply places them in another FCPS environment.

tl;dr the hearings board must conduct every hearing and levy punishments on a purely case-by-case basis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2011 09:50PM by 50287100.

And in response to the absence of due process within the hearings process, it is true that students have basically no rights upon entering school. However, just because a hearings board CAN deny a student due process, the presence of a parent at the original in-school questioning, etc, does it mean it should? I have the power and right to eat nothing but ice cream for the next 5 years, but by the end of those 5 years I'll be extremely unhealthy and would have been better off not exercising such a power in the first place.

The hearings board needs to grant these students some basic rights; at its current state, it appears that its inappropriate exercise of power has caused it to become fat and unhealthy, and now parents of FCPS want it to "go on a diet," if you will, and rectify its ways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2011 09:55PM by 50287100.

Last one, I swear.

When a kid gets in trouble, the parent should absolutely accept that. To sue FCPS is not a correct course of action.

Mephisto says ZT is in effect in order to avoid lawsuits. The main example here used is the acne med girl, where she could give it to student 2 who has an allergic reaction.

I don't believe that because something COULD have happened, means that the hearings board should punish someone more for this. This would be viable if the hearings board also accused the offender of "creating a dangerous environment," or something of the like, otherwise speculating on what was possible only serves to bloat the original charge and is not based in facts and evidence. Since it does not appear that the hearings board includes "creating a dangerous environment" in the typical case, it must be that the latter is the reality, which needs to be fixed.

And in regards to ZT's existence to avoid lawsuits, it's obvious that under ZT parents aren't happy. With a different system, parents still won't be happy. Parents will never be happy. Knowing this, the main issue on how to conduct hearings is what manner best serves all parties involved. As shown above, that manner is a case-by-case, evidence and factually-based process that allows students basic rights.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2011 10:14PM by 50287100.

@50287100 - I'm not saying it's a perfect policy - but it's not a perfect world either, y'know?

Look at it this way - if a neighbor's child comes to your house, and does something like kicks yr kid while in yr house, is there a "due process" hearing on the situation? Does that same kid have "basic rights" if he/she turns your oven and stovetop on full blast and starts a fire? You can kick that kid out yr house without having a trial by jury, y'know.

And let's be honest here - children do not have "right of due process' as defined by law. Only adults do. Children have a right to safety and security, but not necessarily to "due process" in an academic environment. Aint nothing in the Constitution that says that, plain and simple. That's reality. Is it fair? No. But those are the facts.

Currently, we have children huffing household inhalants and taking their parents meds and selling them for cash in school. That's REALITY. And that's why there are certain rules in place - to try and keep that sorta thing from happening. It's not like FCPS made up these rules just out their ass for fun, y'know? And it's not like kids dont know these rules, either. It's a different world than when we went to school, and the school system evolved with it. I get that it's hard for some parents to keep up with it, but to blame the school system just cause it DID keep up with the changing times, well that's just ludicrous.

You say the board can deny a student due process, presence of a parent, etc. I say the student can LEAVE at any time they choose, and take the consequences of their actions. Ppl tend to forget that not one of these students were FORCED to stay, under threat of arrest, physical harm, or anything like that. Worst thing that would happen is that they get kicked out of school - and if they were violating the rules previous to this, it's not like they really cared about learning in the first place, which is kinda what school is there for.

No one kid is BETTER than the rules of the school. And that's the real problem - some kids, and apparently some parents feel their kids are BETTER than the rules in place. If you want to change said rules thru the system, then that's fine and dandy. But to act like you are above the rules, that they should not matter to you, or your child, then that's just some stuck-up b.s. that I just cant stand.

Not saying "you" per se. Just using that pronoun to make my point, is all.

50287100 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your argument to me seems sort of like "if a coach
> coaches a team with excellence, then that team
> will always be undefeated." Obviously, that's not
> the case; in the same manner, "if a parent raises
> their kid with excellence, then the kid will
> always have perfect behavior" seems just as
> absurd, yet it's a tenet you lean on consistently
> in your posts.

No. My argument is more "if a coach teaches the players the rules of the game and the players break them, it's not the referee's fault."

People seem to be under the impression that violating school policy is a "mistake." It is not. Missing the bus at the bus stop because you slept in is a mistake. Forgetting to do your homework is a mistake. Not returning your books to the library on the due date is a mistake.

Bringing drugs to school, getting into fights, vandalizing/destroying school property, wearing inappropriate clothing... These are not mistakes. There is a conscious choice made to do these things, even though you know they're wrong. If a child is making these choices, then I don't question the school's reaction; I question what their parents are doing.

Kids are going to do dumb shit; that's one of the defining characteristics of being a kid. It's up to the parents, though, to tell their kid which shit is dumb and the consequences thereof. Take Acne Girl, for instance. Her parents had to read the rules and sign their acknowledgment. When they got her the prescription, did they tell her to not take it to school? If they told her it was OK, did they not tell her to register it with the nurse?

Kids don't know any better, which is why they don't have the same legal privileges as adults. It is the parents' responsibility to teach them what not to do, and when the school is putting it in writing in plain English for them, it's hard for me to feel sympathetic.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

That's not an accurate comparison; if I see the kid start a fire in my house, the guilt has been immediately found through the evidence presented; I find him guilty of starting a fire in my house and punish him accordingly, by kicking him out.

The members of the hearings board do not directly witness the offenses and that's why they have the fact-finding process.

I didn't say FCPS MUST grant due process, just that they should; despite the fact that their denial of this to students apparently seems to be doing more harm than good and hence they should change it, they still have the power to deny it, if they so desire.

And I graduated high school less than 2 years ago--I'm not that far removed from high school culture. I agree with your portrait of high school reality; however this reality will exist no matter what punishments the hearings boards dole out. I don't have the problem with the rules, my main problem is that, while the hearings boards are granted power by the SR&R to determine punishments on a case-by-case basis, they fail to do so, ultimately for the harm of all involved.

I don't know the whole process behind unenrolling in FCPS, but I could imagine that it is solely up to the student. A student can't literally just leave; truancy officers will force otherwise. However, this isn't entirely relevant. One of the basic assumptions of the hearings process is that the student will remain enrolled to serve their punishment. Otherwise the entire process is nullified, along with this discussion. Plus, because one breaks a rule doesn't mean they didn't care about learning in the first place. Yeah, some kids are like that, but you're telling me that, generally, the students that go before the hearings board don't care about their education?


True, no kid is better than the rules, and parents fail to see it. However, whether or not the kid truly believes this or messed up one time and realizes they're not better than the rules is part of the fact-finding process; in the example of Stuban, he was clearly remorseful for his temporary lack of realization that he was not better than the rules, and the hearings board failed to recognize this. People will break rules and thus, have a periodical lapse in judgement; it is only in cases where a student displays a pattern of disregard for the rules that they should be classified as "thinking themselves better than the rules."

from dictionary.com:

mistake:
–noun
1.
an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.

An error in judgement is indeed a mistake. Mistakes can in fact be conscious.

We agree that kids, by nature, make mistakes. And that you question what their parents are doing. Acne girl was a display of far from perfect parenting, but what if the situation were changed so the parent knew the rules, told her daughter not to bring the medication, and did anyway?

The kid was acting as kids do, the parents did nothing wrong. Who is to blame?

If the player breaks a rule, we don't blame the ref. Nor do we blame the coach. We blame the player.

The school needs to contact the parents and/or bring them if there are problems.
Parents DO want to discipline the children, that's what I'm hearing on these threads.
Yes, there are parents who don't take responsibility for their kids. I'm pretty sure these are the families we don't want abusing our resources. So kick them out if corrections aren't made at home. Easy.

I believe the larger problem lies with the SB and FCPS administration. The best interest of the kids are not at the heart of decisions-ever. Whether the Zero Tolerance (or any policy/decisions) are being addressed, decisions are made consistently inside FCPS offices before obligatory public and community outreach sessions are sought. The community's subsequent feedback is more questions as information is not forthcoming.
This angers people - wasting their time and resources to establish a platform for the fait accompli.
Naturally, parents respond defensively - this is rude and let's face it... corrupt. The "teaching moment" is gone, that kid will not be able to remedy poor choices, let alone learn from these events.

ROFLMAO!!

yeah, parents dont blame refs








http://www.tracypress.com/view/full_story/12624914/article-Police-Log--Fight-at-youth-sports-fields-leads-to-arrest?instance=home_news_lead_story


http://www.thevillager.com/villager_134/soccerdadisarrested.html

http://www.naso.org/sportsmanship/badsports.html

http://www.wbaltv.com/r/2901344/detail.html

I'd post a video of what happens the other 99.99999% of the time, but videos of parents sitting watching a sporting event without some kind of physical violence is really boring.

I was wondering when the ROFLMAOs and Lolz were going to come out.

mmoore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The school needs to contact the parents and/or
> bring them if there are problems.
> Parents DO want to discipline the children, that's
> what I'm hearing on these threads.
> Yes, there are parents who don't take
> responsibility for their kids. I'm pretty sure
> these are the families we don't want abusing our
> resources. So kick them out if corrections aren't
> made at home. Easy.
>
> I believe the larger problem lies with the SB and
> FCPS administration. The best interest of the
> kids are not at the heart of decisions-ever.
> Whether the Zero Tolerance (or any
> policy/decisions) are being addressed, decisions
> are made consistently inside FCPS offices before
> obligatory public and community outreach sessions
> are sought. The community's subsequent feedback
> is more questions as information is not
> forthcoming.
> This angers people - wasting their time and
> resources to establish a platform for the fait
> accompli.
> Naturally, parents respond defensively - this is
> rude and let's face it... corrupt. The "teaching
> moment" is gone, that kid will not be able to
> remedy poor choices, let alone learn from these
> events.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

you know, if parents were doing there JOB, and being more PROACTIVE, instead of responding DEFENSIVELY, as you state, when their kids got in trouble, these issues wouldnt be happening half as much as they are now.

Funny how the FCPS has to be more into the interests of the kids than the actual PARENTS of the kids

What a load of crap.

Im sorry, but if I get a call from school telling me my one of my kids is fucking up, I'm gonna be WAAYYYYYY more interested in what they are telling me, than what my kid is telling me. Know why? CAUSE I REMEMBER WHAT BEING A KID IS LIKE, and I REMEMBER BEING ALL C.Y.A. about my actions. Apparently, lotsa of parents around here have forgotten that, and think their little angels walk on water, instead of owing up to the simple fact their kids are just that - KIDS

Some of y'all srlsy acting like the school system is an enemy to yr kids - no wonder shit is all fked up these day o_0

Parents who want to be part of the system are doing what is NORMAL, and interacting with teachers and admin staff on a regular basis BEFORE issues happen. That's how I'm running things, and I'm a bloody moron. So I know there are others smarter and wiser than I am doing the same thing.


I love my kids - but DAY-UM, I dont think they arent gonna mess up sometimes. And they know that they better at least know the rules cause they know if I find out they've been effing around with the rules, after the school gets thru with them, they are gonna have to deal with psycho-daddy. And they know this-which is what helps keep them on the straight and narrow :)

If that girl had known her parents would have tanned her hid for fucking up, she would have taken her crappy medicine to the nurse FIRST THING, yo.

And THAT'S what parenting in all about.....................

Zero-tolerance doesn't just hurt drug users. I was suspended for 10 days and recommended to be expelled for taking a birth control pill at school that was prescribed to me. I had no priors with a 4.0 GPA. I sincerely feel that my suspension was due to how conservative my high school was. Either way, that suspension ruined my chances of getting into any respectable college. The only good thing that came out of it was the Colbert Report segment. I am a strong believer in reforming the zero-tolerance policy because i am a victim of it.

Freesia Jackson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero-tolerance doesn't just hurt drug users. I was
> suspended for 10 days and recommended to be
> expelled for taking a birth control pill at school
> that was prescribed to me. I had no priors with a
> 4.0 GPA. I sincerely feel that my suspension was
> due to how conservative my high school was. Either
> way, that suspension ruined my chances of getting
> into any respectable college. The only good thing
> that came out of it was the Colbert Report
> segment. I am a strong believer in reforming the
> zero-tolerance policy because i am a victim of it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

sry that happened to you

but let me ask you this, since you were all 4.0 and everything................

why didnt you report yr pills to the school nurse?

like you were supposed to?

Hey what's up Freesia! Wow what a coincidence. You know me; I'm a friend of Flynn's.

Honestly, that was stupid on my part but we were only given 25 minutes for lunch and i didnt want to spend 5 of them walking to the nurse's office. I got away with it for over 9 months so after a while i didnt even think about turning them in.
And hey, which friend of Alex's are you?

At the risk of divulging to much info here, I'll go ahead and say that it's Stephen.

Oh hey Stephen!Im gonna text you, hopefully you havent changed your number.

Freesia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honestly, that was stupid on my part but we were
> only given 25 minutes for lunch and i didnt want
> to spend 5 of them walking to the nurse's office.

Was it worth it?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

If FCPS is going to have a "canned" set of punishments for various infractions, why bother having a hearings office? It costs something like 2 million to have those people sitting there. If they are there as "window dressing"---to give the appearance of a "process" that "hears" the "case", here's a solution:

The SR&R needs to be much fewer pages. They just need to write what the punishments are for various infractions. Add in first offense, second offense, whatever. Detail the transfer to other schools, to alternative schools, and "kicked out" options. Then just do it. No overturns on appeals just shows how the system is not about any "hearings". As many posters are saying, the kids have no "rights"---so why do we give them and their parents the illusion that there are "rights"?

We should just do like they do in China---bullet to the head---right? Then we get rid of all the "bad" kids and everybody knows what the punishment is---no questions need be asked. How dare any of these horrible parents ask any questions.

your government is for them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should just do like they do in China---bullet
> to the head---right? Then we get rid of all the
> "bad" kids and everybody knows what the punishment
> is---no questions need be asked. How dare any of
> these horrible parents ask any questions.

+1

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

@ MrMephisto and GordonBlvd ---

Did you guys have you asses kicked every day in school?
Were you the ones the other other kids made fun of?

not every thing is black and white. You two need to get over being picked on as kids and get to the therapist for help.

ConservativeBob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ MrMephisto and GordonBlvd ---
>
> Did you guys have you asses kicked every day in
> school?
> Were you the ones the other other kids made fun
> of?
>
> not every thing is black and white. You two need
> to get over being picked on as kids and get to the
> therapist for help.

Let me answer your questions with more questions:

Did your parents tell you that you were a special and unique snowflake?
When you fucked up and got in trouble, did your parents blame everyone but you?
Do you think the rules shouldn't apply to everyone equally?
Do you believe that kids who bring drugs to school are just misunderstood?

If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you might have a vagina. Please refrain from having children.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ConservativeBob Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @ MrMephisto and GordonBlvd ---
> >
> > Did you guys have you asses kicked every day in
> > school?
> > Were you the ones the other other kids made fun
> > of?
> >
> > not every thing is black and white. You two
> need
> > to get over being picked on as kids and get to
> the
> > therapist for help.
>
> Let me answer your questions with more questions:
>
> Did your parents tell you that you were a special
> and unique snowflake?
> When you fucked up and got in trouble, did your
> parents blame everyone but you?
> Do you think the rules shouldn't apply to everyone
> equally?
> Do you believe that kids who bring drugs to school
> are just misunderstood?
>
> If you answered "yes" to any of these questions,
> you might have a vagina. Please refrain from
> having children.


I will assume that by avoidance of the questions that the ass kickings did occur for you and your cohort.

I assure you, that I have no Vagina. As for having kids...You should be the poster child for a reason to have an abortion.

I will assume that by avoidance of the questions that you were definitely led to believe you are more important and special than you really are. The vagina thing is also true.

See how that works?

If you want to discuss the pros and cons of the current policy, that's fine, but keep your pathetic insults to yourself. You're really not good at it at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

my turn! i want to hear the answer too.

@ MrMephisto and GordonBlvd ---

Did you guys have you asses kicked every day in school?
Were you the ones the other other kids made fun of?

not every thing is black and white. You two need to get over being picked on as kids and get to the therapist for help.

Paul the mailman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my turn! i want to hear the answer too.
>
> @ MrMephisto and GordonBlvd ---
>
> Did you guys have you asses kicked every day in
> school?

I can't speak for Mr. Blvd, but no, I never got into a fight in school.

> Were you the ones the other other kids made fun
> of?

Nope.

> not every thing is black and white.

Agreed. Not everything is black and white. In this case, however, it most certainly is.

I still can't understand how this is so complicated:

1. School sets the rules and punishments.
2. School informs parents of the rules and punishments in writing.
3. Parents agree to the rules and punishments in writing.

Are parents not letting their kids read the SR&R that they're signing their agreement to?

I can't help but notice that NOBODY is complaining about the actual rules; they're only complaining about the punishment. Nobody is saying that the prescription medication rule is too severe, they're only complaining about the punishment their precious snowflake receives when they're caught with an unregistered prescription medication.

Nobody is saying that kids should be allowed to fight, bring drugs and weapons to school, and disrespect their teachers; they're only complaining about the punishment incurred when their little darling does so.

Parents are doing their children a huge injustice by arguing that the punishment for breaking the clearly-defined and very-simple rules is unfair. When your child turns 18, they're not giving a written set of rules they have to sign their agreement to; they are automatically subject to the same laws that govern EVERYONE over 18. There is no "transfer someplace else if I fuck up" policy. You break the law and you will pay, whether it's a fine, jail time, lawyer fees, or the loss of your job.

It doesn't matter if your kid has a 4.0, because the real world will not care about their attendance record or GPA if they break the law. Granted, the law is not perfect, but you rarely see anyone trying to change the punishment for breaking the law. If you want change, you have to fix the law itself.

Now, which school rules do you whiny parents and kids think are completely unfair?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Hey conservative bob, PICS OR GTFO!!

MrMephisto is a worthless loser

Imagine this guy:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.markalmighty.com/wp/wp-content/gallery/geeks-nerds-and-dorks/fat-nerd-computer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.markalmighty.com/2011/02/12/what-is-crossfit/&usg=__1Is1QqsqNzhblbNZK4T64r5vgSk=&h=480&w=640&sz=39&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&tbnid=JvcEWrF98xxhzM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&ei=fYqcTfeWIYbEgQfdkNHCBw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfat%2Bcomputer%2Bnerd%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1408%26bih%3D668%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1



Paul the mailman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my turn! i want to hear the answer too.
>
> @ MrMephisto and GordonBlvd ---
>
> Did you guys have you asses kicked every day in
> school?
> Were you the ones the other other kids made fun
> of?
>
> not every thing is black and white. You two need
> to get over being picked on as kids and get to the
> therapist for help.

@Paul The Mailman:

He may be right...you don't here about many fights at an all girls school.

Just saw that I made a type-o: Should be hear not here

He may be right...you don't hear about many fights at an all girls school.

Freesia Jackson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero-tolerance doesn't just hurt drug users. I was
> suspended for 10 days and recommended to be
> expelled for taking a birth control pill at school
> that was prescribed to me. I had no priors with a
> 4.0 GPA. I sincerely feel that my suspension was
> due to how conservative my high school was. Either
> way, that suspension ruined my chances of getting
> into any respectable college. The only good thing
> that came out of it was the Colbert Report
> segment. I am a strong believer in reforming the
> zero-tolerance policy because i am a victim of it.


What right does the school have to look into the medicine cabinet of a high school girl taking birth control pills? A lot of these rules have nothing to do with safety and security, and everything to do with control and intimidation. When you sign the SR&R, apparently you give up all HPPA rights as well.

Hey ConservativeBob pics or GTFO!

dickface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto is a worthless loser
>
> Imagine this guy:

DURR HURR HURR, NEVER SEEN THAT PICTURE BEFORE, LOL.

Idiot.

ConservativeBob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just saw that I made a type-o: Should be hear not
> here
>
> He may be right...you don't hear about many fights
> at an all girls school.

1. That joke was not funny enough the first time that you needed to clarify.
2. Thank you for proving my point.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

bs! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What right does the school have to look into the
> medicine cabinet of a high school girl taking
> birth control pills? A lot of these rules have
> nothing to do with safety and security, and
> everything to do with control and intimidation.
> When you sign the SR&R, apparently you give up all
> HPPA rights as well.

As a parent you agree that your kid must register medication with the nurse, if you don't like the rules don't sign your agreement to them, put your kid in a private school or home school them, etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bs! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What right does the school have to look into
> the
> > medicine cabinet of a high school girl taking
> > birth control pills? A lot of these rules have
> > nothing to do with safety and security, and
> > everything to do with control and intimidation.
>
> > When you sign the SR&R, apparently you give up
> all
> > HPPA rights as well.
>
> As a parent you agree that your kid must register
> medication with the nurse, if you don't like the
> rules don't sign your agreement to them, put your
> kid in a private school or home school them, etc.


I've (and my kids) have signed my last SR&R. I encourage others to do the same this fall. Let's see what FCPS has to say about that.

facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've (and my kids) have signed my last SR&R. I
> encourage others to do the same this fall. Let's
> see what FCPS has to say about that.

LOL

Probably nothing that you want to hear.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

"I've (and my kids) have signed my last SR&R. I encourage others to do the same this fall. Let's see what FCPS has to say about that."


Bravo, Bravo. These miserable bullies and cowardly petty tyrants within the FCPS administration have had their day,and their Reign of Terror is nearly at an end.

Bert Wrote:

> Bravo, Bravo. These miserable bullies and cowardly
> petty tyrants within the FCPS administration have
> had their day,and their Reign of Terror is nearly
> at an end.

---------------------------------------------------

ROFLMAO@ "Reign of Terror"

"ROFLMAO@ "Reign of Terror""

ROFLMAO@ ROFLMAO@Reign of Terror

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a parent you agree that your kid must register
> medication with the nurse, if you don't like the
> rules don't sign your agreement to them

Minor correction - which I'm surprised the pro-bad-kid folks haven't noted yet - you are not agreeing to anything when you sign off on the SR&R - you are simply noting that you have received it.

Minor correction - which I'm surprised the phony-holier-than-thou-hypocrites-with bad-kids turds haven't noted yet - you are agreeing to the terms when you sign off on the SR&R - you are simply noting that you have received it.

"bad kids" roflmao! I guess Obama would be a "bad kid", given he was a confessed pot user in his youth. Would have been expelled from FCPS in a heartbeat. Maybe all kids should give pot a try..they may just go on the be Senators, Presidents, and win the Nobel Peace prize.

Hell yeah, give pot a try! Ya just might go on to be a "bad kid" like Michael Phelps, and be recognized as the greatest Olympic athlete of all time.