NEC (National Electrical Code)

When she came in contact with the "well lit" illegally installed fountain, it electricuted her.

A by-stander employee claimed he tried to pull her away - who was reportedly shocked but failed to pull her away.

---------

meanwhile many people are getting hot tubs with lights installed in their homes (politically rich democrats i assume?) - installed by illegals and not inspected. deaths have resulted

** What was a 6 yr old girl doing at a Casino city ?

* why was a male employee the only person to witness it ?

(its' a hotel AND retail AND casino AND marina area - a playground for the rich and corrupt government workers)

It's obvious the girl's family will sue and the Hotel will have a hit on their property insurance: N.E.C. code was broken, illegals were used, etc

INFACT - in a corrupt maryland - it could well have been planned in advance by DNC.

Note: fx co gov has been building public places fervently using illegal labor.

When will you be electricuted using a water fountain that says "lead free" ??

never doubt huge insurance payouts are not pre-planned and involve death of even children

they are, they do, happens frequently

Niggers + water = drowning ?
PG county + fountain = drowning
Typical niggers and water dangers this summer!

This is a new attraction at MGM. It's called Blue Lightning

It was Beyoncé’s daughter!

Do you have any proof whatsoever that illegals were somehow involved, or is this the usual hate-mongering of the Trumptard right?

And you wonder why Americans with half a brain are concerned when the brainless Cheetofuhrer might get to nominate a second member of SCOTUS.

Whoever is the parents better get the best Lawyer out there (Peter Greenspun) to make sure you are compensated beyond belief. Negligence on the casino. Get Peter and he will demand Millions and they will settle for a few million.

Didn't need an NEC certificate to know this. First rule to learn is water and electricity don't mix. I guess our public schools don't teach that any more.

You are being too simplistic. Electricity can be and is safely used around water. The tidal neighborhood pool will have a dozen or so underwater lights. Electrical sump pumps are designed to work partially or fully submerged.

CORRECTION: girl was electrocuted but alive, same as mgm employee lived

same deal, they're gonna sue, safety inspection is now ongoing, etc

Miami Florida pedestrian bridge falls, serious injuries maybe deaths

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/2825873/2899181.html#msg-2899181

do you think the "investigation" will go anywhere?

if i were a laywer for the girl I'd cite such obstructive government agency techniques and insist that any government investigation NOT be considered, that the suit go forward without

investigate WHAT?

we already know they hooked up the wiring wrong

we also know they can't be trusted to hired an electrician - they'll hire an illegal and etc

WE KNOW DEMOCRATS IN THAT AREA, MARYLAND also hire illegals to do government work and slack on inspection (like DC metro)

WHAT IS TO BE DONE BY THE GOVERNMENT HERE?

PAY UP BTICH.

Maryland could force the 6 yr old onto psychiatric pills during treatment. THey could then claim that her testimony can't be trusted in court - then blame the whole thing on her imagination and insinuate the mgm guard was never shocked.

even if a lamp or pump failed it's still MGM's fault for ...

#1 ordering a part that can fail critically

#2 ordering the part from china and not testing it after install

#3 using illegal aliens to do the work some of who cannot READ INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS - AMONG OTHER THINGS et alia

MGM National Harbor

testimony by gov workers so far is: girl was "swinging" on hand rail. the rail was energized*. the girl received a 120 volt shock.

the installer said he was "pressured to do the job quickly and wrongly". the inspector didn't inspect the work at all.

I'm surprised WMAL reported this! (democrats, thugs, union run such jobs, illegals do the work, none of them mentioned like "narks" and are absolutely the kind to call and threaten people)

(there are various ways to improperly energize metal outsize a circuit. most involve "improper grounding". ground, in Single Family Dwelling often tied to plumbing and mistakenly tied to HVAC vents too (hvac either by touching copper pipes or by mal-conceived hvac equipment), also it's frequently tied to metal conduit (but shouldn't be in public areas))

ground "sinks high voltage spikes". it also offers a pathway to trip a circuit breaker should "HOT" for some reason become loose and run back to the panel by ground (it might not: it might choose your pipes or hvac or conduit if they are a faster path).

there are problems with "grounding everything": it offers a path back to the street transformer which, if it's faulty or being repaired, could kill you quickly. it could be attached to equipment with large capacitors: older equipment would not think twice about discharging a capacitor to ground unfortunately (ACTUALLY: THAT'S WHAT GROUND IS FOR - which is why you really shouldn't be exposed to it).

UNGROUNDED EQUIPMENT has a path back the the street transformer "neutral" (0V sometimes, but may not be 0V for various reasons it might float nowhere near 0V). although it's "usally 0V" it should never be used near water or as to nearby metal. (older equipment, such as metal coffee makers, used to do this - it was why you'd be shocked touching it if maybe you spilled water on it). ALLOWING NEUTRAL TO CONTACT WHAT HUMANS CAN TOUCH HASN'T BEEN LEGAL FOR A LONG TIME.

basically: NEC electrical code allows "ground spikes" and "ground return" into metal people can touch and it really shouldn't. (however nec doesn't allow if there is known to be certain nasty equipment). but NEC did "get rid of" the neutral problem.

NEC doesn't allow any energizing of metal for GAS LINES

A GREAT NUMBER OF HOMES IN FAIRFAX HAVE ENERGIZED GAS LINES due to issues i mentioned above

energized gas lines can, if rarely, cause a gas explosion

unfortunately more safety issue may be arising in the future. we already know they used illegal laborers (duh, maryland sanctuary state we know) which ALWAYS means bad work (if not intentionally to CAUSE a need to hire more labor for continual repairs). we now know they had corrupt inspectors. they may also have had corrupt building designers (ie, asian contractors who aren't even liable to follow maryland building code)

this is what happens when you let democrats run things. you build a monument to relaxation and end up with a "time share nightmare"

7th floor 6th window from right - do you see the hooker looking out through the window !

did the contractors use the right fasteners to fasten pipes so they don't creep? put in bends so pipe cannot simply slip past/inside fasteners. probably not.

one big mess, potentially

the casino building is sitting on top of a parking lot. parking lots are not known for their fine engineering. obviously this one is custom, though.

She didn't die

we see several white columns installed / at an angle for visual impact

on the end are "flying wings" (unsupported extension of roof) with people underneath these. (we suspect but cannot see beams inside roof that extend from the last column)

.\|/
..|
..|

we see a Y on the last wing. it's unlikely this "works" the way the engineers think it does. it likely doesn't offer added protection it likely compromises that last column.

many buildings have under ground parking lots - so what

Much of the above was posted by morons who couldn't successfully drive a nail.

((i forgot to say conduit is "harder" because loose wires will naturally make it hot, therefore grounding is the better of two evils. (better yet would be arrangements that assure that can't happen, but that's not reality today). some equipment grounds the chasis some doesn't for similar reasons. this has nothing to do mgm railings though))

Fountain pump was connected to a GFCI.

GFCI kept tripping and would not reset.

Rather than attempt to find the cause of the problem, the GFCI was bypassed.

This just in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fountain pump was connected to a GFCI.
>
> GFCI kept tripping and would not reset.
>
> Rather than attempt to find the cause of the
> problem, the GFCI was bypassed.

Could they have not swapped the GFCI at that point instead of ignoring the problem, if the new one continued to trip then investigate further?

I am not an electrician, just a simple guess looking at my bathroom GFCI outlet as inspiration while i am reading FfxU in my bathroom right now, as it should be.

Just like most nigger work ethic, the electric inspector made some mistakes.
Who cares if it was a spic that did the install?
Inspector was an older man that only skimmed over this time to.
Imagine the shit he would get delaying the casino opening.

When a GFCI trips, it’s not the breaker, it’s a wiring issue.
Every time the gfci trips, it becomes less reliable.
Typical nigger project

Yeah, PG County inspectors on the take . . . they don't want to talk about that.

Typical inefficiency and corruption from the bureaucracy of the People's Republic of Maryland

Where does it say that the electricians who installed the wiring were in this country illegally?

Leftist.Gorilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where does it say that the electricians who
> installed the wiring were in this country
> illegally?

Tracing the work backwards shows inexperienced Central Americans that did the wiring.

Just like those plumbers that do not know how to calculate overflow outlets in bathtubs.....

GC’s that don’t pay prevailing wages only have illegals working for them!

All the illegals that were trained properly RUN THEIR OWN COMPANIEs!
It was def not a Brother, bc they don’t work.

WTOP has changed their story several times. as said before no one died.

they are now saying the inspector didn't inspect "that particular railing" (illegal) but then released that "the inspector didn't admit this - it's simply 3rd person opinion"

(obviously it wasn't inspected and passed, obviously)

there is another answer actually. illegal maintenance was done that (connected ground to hot) and the railing was ground and the girl somehow was a good enough ground to receive a shock - this could have been done at a location perhaps remote to the railing.

what has NOT been reported by WTOP:

(1) even a single piece of fact pertaining to how the railing had been wired

Jo Mamah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leftist.Gorilla Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where does it say that the electricians who
> > installed the wiring were in this country
> > illegally?
>
> Tracing the work backwards shows inexperienced
> Central Americans that did the wiring.
>
> Just like those plumbers that do not know how to
> calculate overflow outlets in bathtubs.....
>
> GC’s that don’t pay prevailing wages only have
> illegals working for them!
>
> All the illegals that were trained properly RUN
> THEIR OWN COMPANIEs!
> It was def not a Brother, bc they don’t work.

Please post a citation on this...

Good day to all lovers of gambling. Personally, I haven't changed casumo casino for three months. I'm really enjoying this. There are so many advantages for beginners. And experienced players can get a good profit using their game tactics. Probably the best casino I've ever seen.

>there are problems with "grounding everything": it offers a path back to the street transformer which, if it's >faulty or being repaired, could kill you quickly. it could be attached to equipment with large capacitors: older >equipment would not think twice about discharging a capacitor to ground unfortunately (ACTUALLY: THAT'S >WHAT GROUND IS FOR - which is why you really shouldn't be exposed to it).

Actually ground should never carry current. The purpose of ground is to provide a failsafe current path. If ground is ever carrying current there is a fault.

If you need to discharge a capacitor, stick a resistor across the terminals.

dpcwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually ground should never carry current. The
> purpose of ground is to provide a failsafe current
> path. If ground is ever carrying current there is
> a fault.

WRONG

ground is not generally safe. we live in a real world of limited resources. that's the only reason why you'd ever be "able to touch it"

PLEASE READ A LITTLE BEFORE ANSWERING - YOU CAN FIND THAT INFO ON ABOUT ANY INSTRUCTABLE

They avoid some hundreds leaving out a few wires or inspections.

They now have MORE LAWSUITS than they did copper wires.

Leftist.Gorilla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please post a citation on this...

Mr. six-random-letters posts numerous paranoid fantasies for which he never has any backing data, so don't bother asking for a cite.

Don't bother Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leftist.Gorilla Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please post a citation on this...
>
> Mr. six-random-letters posts numerous paranoid
> fantasies for which he never has any backing data,
> so don't bother asking for a cite.

No citation available? Roger that...muh dick.

ftjee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dpcwk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Actually ground should never carry current. The
> > purpose of ground is to provide a failsafe
> current
> > path. If ground is ever carrying current there
> is
> > a fault.
>
> WRONG
>
> ground is not generally safe. we live in a real
> world of limited resources. that's the only
> reason why you'd ever be "able to touch it"
>
> PLEASE READ A LITTLE BEFORE ANSWERING - YOU CAN
> FIND THAT INFO ON ABOUT ANY INSTRUCTABLE

I have a four year degree in electrical engineering and about a two decades of industrial electrical wiring. Ground is the non current carrying conductor by definition. If it is carrying current, that is a fault. It carries the current back instead of leaving the chassis floating at line potential.

Your other rantings concern bonding. Bonding is not the same as grounding. Bonding is necessary to reduce potential differences.

Don't bother Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leftist.Gorilla Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please post a citation on this...
>
> Mr. six-random-letters posts numerous paranoid
> fantasies for which he never has any backing data,
> so don't bother asking for a cite.


The youngin's on this board don't know about Svennestle. (search this board, not sure if i have the spelling of his name correct- but yes it is him based on the writing style.

I read his rants for fun- sometimes he kinda has a point- but the way he expresses it is all scatterbrained.

At least he cares enough to express his honest opinion, i give him that.

Even if sometimes he does not make sense.

He is just as much an OG as Eesh and them....just more crazy than crazy LOL.

Keep the craziness coming you all it makes me feel better to know I am not as crazy as i thought....still love you anyway!

-longtime FfxU lurker= since at least 2007 i would say.

And my honest review of MGM having gone on 3 occasions in the past 2 years (work meetings and such)...please excuse typos.

If you came to play slots- expect to pay $$$$. Even on the penny/nickel machines your minimum bet will be $.75-$1. Kinda defeats the purpose. In WV you can make literal 5 cent bets if you want. I drop in a $50 and ride it out, switching machines if i get bored. Expect to run about $50 an hour if you are a low roller grinding slots like me. I can usually make my money back, once i came back with $320 which was a good day for me I think i used a $100 nut on slots that day.

Tables- $10 min buy ins (weekdays when everyone else is at work), during busy nights goes to $25 and up- you will not find a $5 table like you would @ CharlesTown west virginia. Dealers are kinda tight, i just played some blackjack/poker a few hands not all night, I lost quickly. The real action was at the $50 and up tables. Those chaps were winning upwards of $500 a game- they had to have been at it all night though.

Food- decent FWIW a nice little food court area but even a slice of pizza or a simple burger you are looking at $15, a bottle of water $4. The little crabcake place was very good, but expensive. I'd try to eat before i got there, have my lady hide a sammich in her purse LOL, or go somewhere else outside the property. Food wasn't bad just expensive. The FISH restaurant was awesome and worth it- once- to impress a lady or whatnot just to say you have been there- but after that it is boring. Same with tap room on the outer part- nice atmosphere to have some drinks with a friend, but for a party- ehhh nah. Security was TOO on their jobs and they looked at me hard just for lauging loudly at a friends joke. I felt uneasy and drank the rest of my beer and went on in the casino.

Scenery-shopping- I like that outdoor area but after that kid got killed i have not gone out. Beautiful scenery though. Free to just walk around and i saw a lot of people there just to do that. No one was spending mnoey in the expensive designer stores they had on site, just browsing. If they brought their prices down a little i almost bought a nice pair of shades but gooogled them real quick and found them online $50 cheaper so ordered them there. Good to window shop and dream though!

Parking- plenty of it just be willing to go to the other side of the building if one side is full there are like 6 entrances to the garage and everyone goes in the first one they see once they get off the highway. Drive another 30 seconds and hit the next entrance- pow- parking right by the elevators.

Drinks- once inside the casino expect to pay $7 for a bud light, $10 for a coorona, and I paid $14 for a well vodka and redbull (asking for the well to try to keep it cheap there were no prices posted you had to ask). I usually tip $1-2 per drink if they make it fast. Unless it is super busy usually not a problem to belly up and have a drink in your hand within 4 minutes. Once again bring your lady friend with a big purse LOL.

Clientele- lets be real this is PG county. I'd say staff was pretty evenly mixed white black and hispanic- but clientele was easily 60% black, 30% white, and 20% everyone else, with a few asian high rollers about and a few hispanics who looked poor since they were sorely underdressed but were having a great time on the penny slots laughing i was glad to watch them they were there to have fun.

Of the black people- 60% women 40% men, mostly over 40, with a handful of young bloods (< 30 dressed in cheap club clothes or trying to be a thug) being loud and causing trouble. Say if it were 100 black people, only 5 were acting "bad enough" if i was the manager i would have kicked them out. The rest were pleasant and said excuse me and asked me politely if they wanted to be next on the machine i was playing. Sucks for the good blacks in there, the bad ones were getting all the attention from everyone else.

I would not fear coming here, the security is on point. Like i said, they gritted on me for LAUGHING LOUD OUTSIDE AT THE BAR.

If you don't like black people at all- keep your ass in west virginia. The casinos at Live and Horseshoe (baltmore) are even MORE black- and with more aggressive clientele. There are legit beggers in horseshoe i will never go back. People asking for change or my ticket with < $1 on them getting mad when i said no but i simply walked away.


There is my honest opinion.

RIP to the girl who died, i hope the family gets to sue MGM's pants off.

Good luck everyone.

Based on what I can read on the internet, the railing lights were 12v which is safe. But the driver for the 12v was installed in or near the railing. Since 12v is safe, some junior electrician decided grounding the railing was unnecessary. That's a bad idea. The driver can always fail and pass 120v to the output (transformer windings can fail, class y capacitor fail). This is a worst case situation, but it is possible and why we have electrical codes instead of "my best guess".

yippie kay yay FfxU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't bother Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Leftist.Gorilla Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Please post a citation on this...
> >
> > Mr. six-random-letters posts numerous paranoid
> > fantasies for which he never has any backing
> data,
> > so don't bother asking for a cite.
>
>
> The youngin's on this board don't know about
> Svennestle. (search this board, not sure if
> i have the spelling of his name correct- but yes
> it is him based on the writing style.
>
> I read his rants for fun- sometimes he kinda has a
> point- but the way he expresses it is all
> scatterbrained.
>
> At least he cares enough to express his honest
> opinion, i give him that.
>
> Even if sometimes he does not make sense.
>
> He is just as much an OG as Eesh and them....just
> more crazy than crazy LOL.
>
> Keep the craziness coming you all it makes me feel
> better to know I am not as crazy as i
> thought....still love you anyway!
>
> -longtime FfxU lurker= since at least 2007 i would
> say.

What if it's

dpcwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on what I can read on the internet, the
> railing lights were 12v which is safe. But the
> driver for the 12v was installed in or near the
> railing. Since 12v is safe, some junior
> electrician decided grounding the railing was
> unnecessary. That's a bad idea. The driver can
> always fail and pass 120v to the output
> (transformer windings can fail, class y capacitor
> fail). This is a worst case situation, but it is
> possible and why we have electrical codes instead
> of "my best guess".

#1 i really really really really doubt you know what your talking about

#2 "The driver can always fail and pass 120v to the output" is exactly why they shouldn't be using chinese crap on a commercial site. safe instruments don't fail in a way that harm people - unless they are cheap imports obama approved

#3 12v is safe? are you saying a car battery can't kill you? they can.

#4 neither ground nor NEUTRAL of an electrical system can raise the "voltage". a normal an inexpensive step down transformer (120>12) would ALWAYS fail in a manner to stop all power - it would never conduct 120v "by mistake". if some nefarious "railing lights" (likely led, which can use 120v and step down internally or require about 5v OR require a certain number of milli-amps (could be either)). but GROUND and NEUTRAL are not NEC electrical terms when we talk about exposing a person to the inside of equipment (circuit) attached to a fixture.

the NEC definition of that is:

(1) electricians and NEC never expose people to parts of a circuit other than NEC electrical wiring (the inside of an led product, tv, pc, vacuum cleaner or any other device: is never exposed unless by illegal un-inspected manufacturing)

(2) do not use it if it's an un-inspected import or damaged

(3) "follow manufacturer instructions" (who is legally liable where human exposure is concerned)

the reason i said that is to correct your "vocabulary"

If an electrician grounded a device (that was labeled ground by NEC code), then it never would have shocked anyone.

IT WASN'T A GROUND

https://www.quora.com/Can-touching-one-hot-wire-alone-on-a-switch-produce-a-shock

"Yes, if you do it correctly, you can typically touch one side of a hot electrical line and not get shocked. ... Can touching one hot wire alone on a switch produce a shock? It depends on how well you are insulated. If you are standing barefoot on a wet concrete ground floor, you will be zapped pretty good."

i have no idea what the girl was touching. an led casing, a railing, no idea if she was wet or it was raining.

however if there were LED in the railing - it is remotely possible the chinese manufacturer LIED and saved $$COPPER by instructing they make the railing part of the circuit - and then also improperly labeled (thingies exposed) as GROUND when they were not NEC ground

(a circuit diagram ground COULD BE ANYTHING - and you'd never take it for granted without knowing. NEC ground is "ground" defined by NEC's circuit AND your local electric company)

(NEC + your power company Ground is usually safe unless there is a "mis-hap" at the power company or if HOT comes loose and touches grounded metal: but normally it would shut off if that happened. in modern commercial buildings they avoid exposing even grounded metals normally safe - ie in lobbies and etc. the electrical is fully insulated. don't count on that of course! touch it momentarily when you need to only, and not if your WET.)

(lesser known is you don't want to touch street light poles (including walk sign poles) if your standing on wet ground. while newer code would say there would be nothing energetic between the pole metal and earth: you never know)

didn'treadit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dpcwk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Based on what I can read on the internet, the
> > railing lights were 12v which is safe. But the
> > driver for the 12v was installed in or near the
> > railing. Since 12v is safe, some junior
> > electrician decided grounding the railing was
> > unnecessary. That's a bad idea. The driver can
> > always fail and pass 120v to the output
> > (transformer windings can fail, class y
> capacitor
> > fail). This is a worst case situation, but it
> is
> > possible and why we have electrical codes
> instead
> > of "my best guess".
>
> #1 i really really really really doubt you know
> what your talking about

That's funny coming from you.

> #2 "The driver can always fail and pass 120v to
> the output" is exactly why they shouldn't be using
> chinese crap on a commercial site. safe
> instruments don't fail in a way that harm people -
> unless they are cheap imports obama approved

Unfortunately that's where this stuff is made.

> #3 12v is safe? are you saying a car battery
> can't kill you? they can.

If you drop it on your head. 12v can't drive enough current across your body because (especially you) are quite resistive. To actually do this you would need to drive probes into your body to get to a more conductive path and that isn't the story.

>
> #4 neither ground nor NEUTRAL of an electrical
> system can raise the "voltage". a normal an
> inexpensive step down transformer (120>12) would
> ALWAYS fail in a manner to stop all power - it
> would never conduct 120v "by mistake". if some
> nefarious "railing lights" (likely led, which can
> use 120v and step down internally or require about
> 5v OR require a certain number of milli-amps
> (could be either)). but GROUND and NEUTRAL are
> not NEC electrical terms when we talk about
> exposing a person to the inside of equipment
> (circuit) attached to a fixture.

You can't control how a transformer or capacitor will fail. Failing and shorting is fairly common. In fact there are really only two failure modes, open or short.

> the NEC definition of that is:
>
> (1) electricians and NEC never expose people to
> parts of a circuit other than NEC electrical
> wiring (the inside of an led product, tv, pc,
> vacuum cleaner or any other device: is never
> exposed unless by illegal un-inspected
> manufacturing)
>
> (2) do not use it if it's an un-inspected import
> or damaged
>
> (3) "follow manufacturer instructions" (who is
> legally liable where human exposure is concerned)

Only if properly installed.

vj6hl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.quora.com/Can-touching-one-hot-wire-al
> one-on-a-switch-produce-a-shock
>
> "Yes, if you do it correctly, you can typically
> touch one side of a hot electrical line and not
> get shocked. ... Can touching one hot wire alone
> on a switch produce a shock? It depends on how
> well you are insulated. If you are standing
> barefoot on a wet concrete ground floor, you will
> be zapped pretty good."

Sigh. We use AC here in the US. Even on a dry concrete floor in rubber shoes, there is stray capacitances that will potentially conduct enough current to give you a shock.

pwyvm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (lesser known is you don't want to touch street
> light poles (including walk sign poles) if your
> standing on wet ground. while newer code would
> say there would be nothing energetic between the
> pole metal and earth: you never know)

Funny you mention that. Two schools of thought. One, grounding these poles make them lightning rods attracting lightning. Two, these poles are used as raceways and should be grounded. What happens in your jurisdiction will vary.

dpcwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ftjee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dpcwk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Actually ground should never carry current.
> The
> > > purpose of ground is to provide a failsafe
> > current
> > > path. If ground is ever carrying current
> there
> > is
> > > a fault.
> >
> > WRONG
> >
> > ground is not generally safe. we live in a
> real
> > world of limited resources. that's the only
> > reason why you'd ever be "able to touch it"
> >
> > PLEASE READ A LITTLE BEFORE ANSWERING - YOU CAN
> > FIND THAT INFO ON ABOUT ANY INSTRUCTABLE
>
> I have a four year degree in electrical
> engineering and about a two decades of industrial
> electrical wiring. Ground is the non current
> carrying conductor by definition. If it is
> carrying current, that is a fault. It carries the
> current back instead of leaving the chassis
> floating at line potential.
>
> Your other rantings concern bonding. Bonding is
> not the same as grounding. Bonding is necessary
> to reduce potential differences.

then your degree should be burned in an electrical fire: ground has spikes that can reduce LIFE SPAN. your also a liar - just a troll with no degree

i did mention bonding but i didn't call it by name


> "If it is carrying current, that is a fault"

that doesn't help someone being shocked does it?

> It carries the
> current back instead of leaving the chassis
> floating at line potential.

that's also WRONG: in our area (fairfax) (perhaps typical in USA), it is a separate path back to a different bond in the panel. IT INSURES THE BREAKER TRIPS FASTER.

ANYTHING THAT CAN GET WATER ON IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE GFCI. outdoors: wet.

ANY LIGHTING SO EXPOSED (IE POOL) is supposed to be low voltage unless all the TT's are crossed

dpcwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pwyvm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > (lesser known is you don't want to touch street
> > light poles (including walk sign poles) if your
> > standing on wet ground. while newer code would
> > say there would be nothing energetic between
> the
> > pole metal and earth: you never know)
>
> Funny you mention that. Two schools of thought.
> One, grounding these poles make them lightning
> rods attracting lightning. Two, these poles are
> used as raceways and should be grounded. What
> happens in your jurisdiction will vary.


it's assumed the pole may be wet, greatly increasing it's conductivity when passers or children by touch it (ie, to hit the cross-walk button)

umbrella attract lighting but are not grounded

dpcwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vj6hl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> https://www.quora.com/Can-touching-one-hot-wire-al
>
> > one-on-a-switch-produce-a-shock
> >
> > "Yes, if you do it correctly, you can typically
> > touch one side of a hot electrical line and not
> > get shocked. ... Can touching one hot wire
> alone
> > on a switch produce a shock? It depends on how
> > well you are insulated. If you are standing
> > barefoot on a wet concrete ground floor, you
> will
> > be zapped pretty good."
>
> Sigh. We use AC here in the US. Even on a dry
> concrete floor in rubber shoes, there is stray
> capacitances that will potentially conduct enough
> current to give you a shock.


potentially wasn't the question and was BARRED IN THE QUESTION. your just a troll who can't read.

dpcwk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> didn'treadit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dpcwk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Based on what I can read on the internet, the
> > > railing lights were 12v which is safe. But
> the
> > > driver for the 12v was installed in or near
> the
> > > railing. Since 12v is safe, some junior
> > > electrician decided grounding the railing was
> > > unnecessary. That's a bad idea. The driver
> can
> > > always fail and pass 120v to the output
> > > (transformer windings can fail, class y
> > capacitor
> > > fail). This is a worst case situation, but it
> > is
> > > possible and why we have electrical codes
> > instead
> > > of "my best guess".
> >
> > #1 i really really really really doubt you
> know
> > what your talking about
>
> That's funny coming from you.
>
> > #2 "The driver can always fail and pass 120v
> to
> > the output" is exactly why they shouldn't be
> using
> > chinese crap on a commercial site. safe
> > instruments don't fail in a way that harm people
> -
> > unless they are cheap imports obama approved
>
> Unfortunately that's where this stuff is made.
>
> > #3 12v is safe? are you saying a car battery
> > can't kill you? they can.
>
> If you drop it on your head. 12v can't drive
> enough current across your body because
> (especially you) are quite resistive. To actually
> do this you would need to drive probes into your
> body to get to a more conductive path and that
> isn't the story.
>
> >
> > #4 neither ground nor NEUTRAL of an electrical
> > system can raise the "voltage". a normal an
> > inexpensive step down transformer (120>12)
> would
> > ALWAYS fail in a manner to stop all power - it
> > would never conduct 120v "by mistake". if some
> > nefarious "railing lights" (likely led, which
> can
> > use 120v and step down internally or require
> about
> > 5v OR require a certain number of milli-amps
> > (could be either)). but GROUND and NEUTRAL are
> > not NEC electrical terms when we talk about
> > exposing a person to the inside of equipment
> > (circuit) attached to a fixture.
>
> You can't control how a transformer or capacitor
> will fail. Failing and shorting is fairly common.
> In fact there are really only two failure modes,
> open or short.
>
> > the NEC definition of that is:
> >
> > (1) electricians and NEC never expose people
> to
> > parts of a circuit other than NEC electrical
> > wiring (the inside of an led product, tv, pc,
> > vacuum cleaner or any other device: is never
> > exposed unless by illegal un-inspected
> > manufacturing)
> >
> > (2) do not use it if it's an un-inspected
> import
> > or damaged
> >
> > (3) "follow manufacturer instructions" (who is
> > legally liable where human exposure is
> concerned)
>
> Only if properly installed.


proper installation of chinese crap that obama U.L. never tested is OUT OF THE QUESTION, china lies

the topic was about proper installtion and staying outside of circuits so that all attachments to NEC's circuit are NEC type.

your answer was already stated by the post you responded to

just a troll who can't read posting

there's still ALLOT of products that are not 3-prong

many consumer electronic devices could generate spikes on ground (ie, even on metal of the device case) that DO REDUCE YOUR LIFETIME that are at voltages BEYOND the ability of your ability to feel them: that's right - TELSLA likely died young from exposure to shocks he never felt

one of a few jobs GROUND does is to help eliminate spikes. it also means you don't want to be normally touching it

in modern "hotel lobby" they avoid any metal being part of any circuit grounded or not

A DEVICE IN YOUR HOME MAY HAVE A LARGE (CAPACITOR) THAT CAUSES SPIKES ON GROUND YOU CAN'T FEEL

NEC circuits are "bonded", that is true. yet that is part of NEC's circuit diagram they coded.

potential difference is different from 0V i already said that like 100 posts above

if your swimming in a pool lit by 120V lights it must be bonded (so must your washing machine with things around it). However - that doesn't mean you want a 2-prong tv failing on ground on the same circuit: it might have spikes on ground.

potential difference ISN'T the "measure of Voltage everyone uses"

in physics you measure the total electrical charge of 1e, and if you have more than one charge of opposite charge, their field being inverse squared, you measure the total (energy) of their attraction at any distance: exactly like gravity (electrical force)

Potential Difference is ONLY ONE way to express that inner world. potential difference doesn't count the floating voltage (the different from 0 that both sides are at)

FURTHERMORE: EVEN EXTREMELY SENSITIVE EQUIPMENT measures 0 poorly - oscilloscopes measure "difference" extremely accurately

HOWEVER: these people wouldn't tell you that 0 doesn't matter - they would WARN you about floating and that it DOES matter

i meant 3 prong crt tv failing to ground* or 2 prong tv failing to (metal condiut thus ground incidentally)

CRT TV were 2 prong if i remember (go ahead and "comment"): the reason why is that 40,000 volts is considered a voltage spike that NEC didn't want on the ground circuit - because it might be touched and not felt: so they specified TV's NOT to be grounded. potentially dangerous in themselves but not REMOTELY to places one wouldn't expect

THE FAM LAWYER CLAIM THE HOTEL HAD EVIDENCE (SPYING CAMERA FOOTAGE) THAT PEOPLE HAD BEEN SHOCKED DAYS BEFORE THE GIRL HAD BEEN - and didn't do nufin to fix it

(also: while an electrical shock is "bad" - it can also be considered "a plain accident that is non-criminal". where criminality might enter it is use of un-certified illegal hispanics doing wiring without a master watching them, use of chinese lighting with fake UL stickers without caution, knowing of a shock hazard and not at least putting out caution tape and cones immediately - stuff like that that makes (you) legally responsible for negligence)

THE FAM LAWYER CLAIM THE HOTEL HAD EVIDENCE (SPYING CAMERA FOOTAGE) THAT PEOPLE HAD BEEN SHOCKED DAYS BEFORE THE GIRL HAD BEEN - and didn't do nufin to fix it

the technician most likely to see a problem with a circuit is the one looking at it who has absolutely no clue of why other's feel there is a problem

Anyone wonder why I support President Trump?

These enchilada eating loud awful music bastards gave to go

the following two articles AGAIN expose the person claiming years of experience and education as: A TROLL WHO CAN'T READ

https://www.hagerstownmd.org/DocumentCenter/View/5377/Streetlighting-Manual---Final-June-2018?bidId=

(yes, grounded)

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5489893 (and the above)

"new systems use total electrical isolation from persons, not grounding, and special components to run lighting using lower voltage"

She has permanent brain damage and they are suing...
However, with the brain damage, she would be a DC high school valedictorian!

4pkuw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the following two articles AGAIN expose the person
> claiming years of experience and education as: A
> TROLL WHO CAN'T READ
>
> https://www.hagerstownmd.org/DocumentCenter/View/5
> 377/Streetlighting-Manual---Final-June-2018?bidId=
>
>
> (yes, grounded)
>
> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5489893 (and
> the above)
>
> "new systems use total electrical isolation from
> persons, not grounding, and special components to
> run lighting using lower voltage"

I dont understand - both of the links talk about grounding. Where is there "total isolation from persons"? Grounds are the failsafe when theres an unforseen failure. EnLIGHTen me

the document CLEARLY LISTS FOR SALE a traffic signal pole with electrical insulation (from all wiring, insulated)

That's why I prefer to avoid overcrowded places. It's kinda dangerous. Infections, illnesses, such accidents... Thankfully, it's possible to gamble sitting at home. I don't do it pretty often but once or two a month I run All Slots Casino and spend some money pushing my luck.

the topic has been steered away from MGM using illegal alien labor and totally un-certified workers (same thing)

were we ever told who worked on it and who inspected it? no. democrat secret.

i guarantee you an electrician didn't ever touch the work (ie, a union master electrician or a journeyman who's work was inspected)

infact at one point MGM rumored that the inspector doesn't inspect every last connection on a big site (not true! or rather only true when a qualified electrician is doing all the work and has a reputation and has sworn it was all done to code)

troll poster ^^ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the document CLEARLY LISTS FOR SALE a traffic
> signal pole with electrical insulation (from all
> wiring, insulated)


Insulation doesnt eliminate the need for grounding.
The documents clearly call for grounding.

At the casinos happens many strange things, but I hadn't heard yet about somebody's death. May be only about death because of losing all money at the gambling. I like to gamble sometimes, but in real casino I was only once. More often I play in online casino. I like to play online casinos more than I do the regular casino because of the ease of access and the conditions they offer. There are so many online casino now in the internet, so it is important to read reviews before starting playing. Last month I found new casino with a great reputation and I am totally satisfied with it. But it will be cool to play in real casino too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2020 01:11PM by davisan.

don't know if the story is real, anyway I hate going to casino, I prefer online

mspa34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> don't know if the story is real, anyway I hate
> going to casino, I prefer online


I love the atmosphere of casinos, and how their hotels look, and sometimes you can have fun and at the same time find great people there
But yeah, sometimes I'm in the mood for playing online as well)

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Lincolnwhite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
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