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Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Alan Rogers ()
Date: December 13, 2009 02:03PM

Has anbody seen the Remey Tomb/Crypt and knows its history?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: December 13, 2009 02:33PM

I lifted the details from the link below:

http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread_archive.asp?fid=3&threadid=13951&currpage=2


The real story:

“Mr. Remey contracted with Pohick Episcopal Church for 5.2 acres of land to build a mausoleum for his family. Remey reportedly chose Pohick Church because GEORGE MASON IV, his great grandfather, was a vestryman. Remey was an architect of international reputation and a man of some wealth. Construction of the "Remeum" began in 1939 and was finished in 1948, with more than 2 million bricks, and In 1962 the church vestry, motivated by concerns over the size of the ediface and serious problems with vandalism, began to negotiate with Remey to break the 1937 contract. An agreement signed in Federal District Court in 1968 gave Remey until April 1973 to remove anything he wanted from the mausoleum, thereafter ownership reverted to the church. Relatives had @15 burials removed to Pompey, N. Y., and by 1973, the year the building was demolished, only Remey's wife GERTRUDE was still there. Her remains were reinterred at Pohick Church before demolition began.”

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: December 13, 2009 02:35PM

You might want to play with this link also:


http://www.norvapics.com/images_lorton.htm

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bledbetter ()
Date: December 14, 2009 03:53PM

Remey was also something of a nutcase... By which I mean he considered himself to be the President of the Embryonic Universal House of Justice.

(How's THAT for the name of a band?)

http://www.charlesmasonremey.net/

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bledbetter ()
Date: December 14, 2009 03:57PM

BTW, the obelisk from the Tomb is still standing, judging by the satellite imagery. I'd imagine that'd make for some exciting photography on the off chance that we get any significant amount of snow this year.

Hmmmm....

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: otis bopalotis ()
Date: December 14, 2009 04:01PM

The cript was bulldozed over they say to stop vandalism. I say that was a crime to do all of those sculptures distroyed.
The actual monument for Remy is still there. Kinda creepy to see that thing out in the middle of the woods.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: repost ()
Date: December 14, 2009 04:03PM

It was over thirty three years ago in Lorton Virginia. I was fifteen years old and on a dare was exploring an ancient mausoleum by flashlight. This was a custom designed private estate mausoleum in the woods behind Pohick Church., George Washington and George Mason supervised the construction of the church building in 1774, completing it just before the outbreak of the Revolutionary War.

I grew up in a town just a few miles away. We used to hear stories of this creepy haunted burial grounds guarded by demons. None but the bravest “coolest” kids in school had ever been inside the walls let alone enter the catacombs.

We drove there listening to Black Sabbath which in retrospect may have been a bad idea. We parked the car half a mile down the road and crept through a thick forest to reach the massive brick walls of the forgotten haunted catacombs.

The entrances to the underground tombs were in a sculpture garden courtyard formed by vaults and a twelve foot brick walls with oversized iron gates at one end. Of course the gates were locked by heavy chains. To enter one climbed trees that had grown up beside the wall. Once on top of the wall, we merely lowered ourselves over the side by a short piece of rope we found tied to the tree and draped over the wall. The rope didn’t reach nearly half way down the wall so we just hung and dropped when we reached the bottom.

We mad our way through numerous smaller courtyards and by statues and carvings, searching for entrances to the underground crypts rumored to be much larger then the five acres above ground. I remember feeling the stare of stone eyes from the grotesque statues and wanting very badly to leave. But we hadn’t thought out our plan very well for the short rope wouldn’t be much help getting us out and there were no trees on the inside that would help us climb out. We were going to have to boost one another up, with the last of us not having a boost, having to really rely on someone up top somehow pulling them up from above. None of us wanted to be the first to ask to leave.

We pressed on looking for the legendary entrance to the underground world rumored to have more fantastic statues and carvings than on the surface. From the distant side of the courtyard we heard a pinging noise like a ball peen hammer on a train rail. We turned off our flashlights hushed each other to get a better listen. Suddenly we heard footsteps rushing toward us. We took cover behind the sculptures when appearing out of the darkness were the familiar figures of three of our classmates, apparently also exploring but now for whatever reason “fleeing” and unaware of our presence.

Without even knowing what they were running from, I decided to join them in their exit except as I emerged from my hiding space they practically fainted at the site of me. They calmed themselves and caught their breath, claiming to have gotten a metal vault door partially open and seeing “something”: … the hideous face of someone or something just inside the door...

“No way!“ we said but they didn’t take time to debate and just resumed their getaway. Our group stood frozen for a moment as we thought about going to see the face for our selves or running for our lives. We paused for a few moments and since no demons were pursuing our friends we decided it was safe to go investigate what they might have seen.

Along one brick wall we found a metal door partially bent back and pried open. We approached cautiously but soon we were all tugging on the door. One of my friends put a big foot on the wall and leaned back pulling the door back telling me to slip in. while he held it. Anxious to show courage I proceed to do so thinking this was going to make me a legend in my school. I put my flashlight in first and looked around the dusty cobwebbed room. I decided that the first three explorers were pussys… because there was no way anyone had opened this door in years, there was an inch of dust.

We pried back the door just enough for me to get the top of my torso and one arm in. I shown the light around and spotted a wall of open vaults to my right but something moved in front of me causing me to jerk the light in that direction. There in the darkness was a partially illuminated hideous snarling face looking right at me. I screamed in horror and started to back out but my friends dropped the door and bolted backward momentarily trapping me in the door, face to face with the demon creature of the underworld or whatever was inside. Still yelling I looked up at the creature again…. And realized it was not moving from it spot …merely writhing in place… I looked closer and finally realized I was looking at my own reflection in a polished granite wall … holding the light below my own face screaming at my own reflection.

I still don’t know how I got out of the door. My buddies had ran. I was the last one out but managed to scale that wall. I got my fingers on the ledge and one of my buddies pulled me over. We ran like rabbits threw the woods, jumped in the car and squealed wheels. Later and for years there was lots of laughter… but no further explanation… just too creepy!

About fifteen years later I briefly reexplored in daylight hours. It had been partially demolished, but some of the statues and carvings were still there. I don’t know if anything is left now.(12/04) Researching years later I discovered this was the Remey Family Mausoleum (Remeum) built in In 1937 CHARLES MASON REMEY (1874-1974) County records say it was completely demolished because of a problem with vandals. It was located @1/2 mile southwest of Pohick Episcopal Church, 9301 Richmond Hwy., Lorton, Va.. The church is still there and is very much an active church.

The real story:

“Mr. Remey contracted with Pohick Episcopal Church for 5.2 acres of land to build a mausoleum for his family. Remey reportedly chose Pohick Church because GEORGE MASON IV, his great grandfather, was a vestryman. Remey was an architect of international reputation and a man of some wealth. Construction of the "Remeum" began in 1939 and was finished in 1948, with more than 2 million bricks, and In 1962 the church vestry, motivated by concerns over the size of the ediface and serious problems with vandalism, began to negotiate with Remey to break the 1937 contract. An agreement signed in Federal District Court in 1968 gave Remey until April 1973 to remove anything he wanted from the mausoleum, thereafter ownership reverted to the church. Relatives had @15 burials removed to Pompey, N. Y., and by 1973, the year the building was demolished, only Remey's wife GERTRUDE was still there. Her remains were reinterred at Pohick Church before demolition began.”



[last edit 12/16/2004 3:37 AM by Rogue - edited 1 times]

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: December 14, 2009 07:57PM

Does anyone have pics of this place? I've never heard of it and it sounds very intereting, I've looked at the links and don't see anything.

Thanks.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 15, 2009 10:36AM

I'm with Mofo. I need to see pictures of this place from back in the day IMMEDIATELY. It sounds like it was pretty badass back in the day, and it would probably be cool to poke around today as well.

GMU Hokie, that GoGomag site won't let you see those pictures from the 70's without a donation. Any other source of photos you know of?

The nerd in me has a HUGE hard-on for good pictures from back in the day.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: December 15, 2009 11:59AM

Sculler,

You might try the Virginia Room at the Fairfax City Regional Library or even the office at Pohick Church.

Perhaps your luck will be better there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 15, 2009 12:52PM

That is an option (and I might take the time to do it), but if I'm gonna take the time I'll probably just go down to Lorton and poke around in the woods. I have a pretty good idea of where it was, based on Historicaerials.com. Based on the aerial photo from '62, it was pretty impressive at about 500 feet long and 200 feet wide. It seems pretty accessible through about 300 feet of woods. If you look at the 2005 aerial you can see that the trees that have overgrown the area are a different shade, practically making a perfect outline of where it was. I'm pretty sure ticks are out of season right now. Hopefully this link works:

Fuck. Nevermind. I can't get the link to work. But if you have the patience to deal with Historicaerials.com, it's pretty cool.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 16, 2009 08:35AM

So I'm pretty curious, can anyone who was around back in the mid-late 70's remember whether or not they dug up and destroyed the underground chambers of the mausoleum, or did they just mow down all the statues and structures above ground? I was wondering if there is anything still underground and if there's still access to it somehow. If the vandals from the 70's really caused that much damage and people frequented the place that often, I'm thinking for safety purposes that they probably dug up and destroyed all the underground passages/chambers, but I was just hopeful.

The link to the norvpics.com forum has a guy saying in the 90's that the ground where it was is still 4 feet higher than anywhere else in the woods. So it makes me wonder.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Alan Rogers ()
Date: December 17, 2009 09:17PM

I have been there in 1979. The entrance to the crypt was blocked by a large mound of dirt, accessable by a small opening at the top. Inside was a fairly large main room with statues, off to each side of this room were two smaller rooms with sarcophagus; their lids were pushed aside. At the back of the main room was a T passageway with smaller rooms branching off of it. The outside of the tomb was a large overgrown mound with metal vent pipes. Just outside the entrance to the tomb was a long 20ft. tall brick wall that had artistic reliefs of American History on it; the Pilgrims Thanksgiving with the Native Americans etc. Also there was a 30ft. tall obelisk dedicated to Charles Manson Remeys father's Naval service. The mausoleum cost over 2 million to build. Remey was involved in the Baha'i Faith of Iran, born 1874- died 1974; search Remeum.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: December 17, 2009 09:19PM

I frequented the cyrpts back in the mid 70's. The pics of norvapics.com show what it was like down there; it's worth going to the Lorton section and viewing the pics. They show some of the fabulous statues, marble entombments, etc. left behind.

They did not dig up and destroy the underground passages. They plowed dirt over the structure in an attempt to bury it but that was only superficial. There was a dirt tunnel you had to climb down through to come in from the ceiling of the mausoleum. There were statues whose heads were broken off with candles lit on top, other marble structures, passages and other rooms. All were littered with remnants of the parties that went on there regularly. You needed a flashlight to get there through the woods and for light down inside the structure. Plenty of beer drinking and pot smoking down there. You never knew who might already be down there when you entered. All types of people were down there at any given time.

I'm sure we had a real risk of a cave in or some other calamity but nobody seemed to be worried about it. The bigger risk was dealing with the cops on your way to and from the crypts. I understand the vast majority of vandalism took place in the sixties which is why the court ordered the place to be shut down and gave Remy 5 years to remove all the bodies, etc. before demolition.

See the following link:

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/branches/vr/cem/cem100.htm

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 18, 2009 07:24AM

Wow. Thanks for the replies. I didn't think anyone would answer.

That's awesome that they didn't dig up the underground chambers. I figured for sure that they would have. Finding an entrance should be interesting, if it's at all still accessible. I'm not counting on the entrance being easy to find because I feel like if it was people would still go down there, unless a generation of kids just didn't find that interesting anymore (which would be their loss). I'm not too worried about the cops because I don't plan on vandalizing anything, and I don't imagine that they still have anyone on the Force that has any idea what they hell's back there anymore!

For the obvious reasons, there will be no exploring this weekend.

CBLB78, was the entrance to the dirt tunnel near the main structure? I have a rough idea of where that was based on Historicaerials.com, but I was hoping for more details.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 18, 2009 08:42AM

Seeing as this monstrousity was over 500 feet long, was the entrance into the chambers on the end that was torwards Old Colchester Road (South), or Route 1 (North)?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: December 18, 2009 10:00AM

Haven't been back there in a long time but a friend and I heard about this place back in the early nineties from an older sister who had hung out there. We went to check it out and all we could find was the marble memorial, I rememeber it being about 100 feet tall and it was just really weird that it was the only thing in the middle of the woods. There is a large mound of dirt in front of the memorial, you would walk past the mound if you enter from Rt. 1 to get to the memorial. There is a square brick structure that sticks out of the end of the mound opposite the memorial, it appers to be a vent since there are small openings at the top of it but not anywhere near large enough for a person to fit in. I remember going out there at least five or six times and we searched all around that mound of dirt for an entrance but could not find one. I do remember that if you walked in from Rt. 1 and then went behind the memorial there where some small square cement markers that stuck out of the ground maybe a foot or so and they seemed to be arranged in a semi circle around the back of the memorial, they were probably 50 feet or so behind the memorial in the woods. We could never figure out what they were for and even went to the church and asked about it but no one seemed to know anything about them. I haven't been out there in years but when I used to go we would always access the area by walking down the driveway of the house that is to the right of the church and about half way down the driveway there is an old overgrown road that leads off to the right, you don't have to get very close to the house and we were never bothered when walking back through there. Follow that old road back into the woods and you will eventually see the mound of dirt and the memorial. The house I'm talking about would be to the right of the church if you came down Pohick Rd to where it dead ends into Rt. 1.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 18, 2009 10:18AM

Thanks, I'm definately planning on checking it out. That helps out as far as what to expect, and like I said, I wasn't expecting an entrance to be at all obvious much less existing.

But if anyone else has been there lately and knows of an entrance, let me know!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: December 18, 2009 03:49PM

It was right over the top of the main structure but I'd be shocked if they didn't go back and do a better job of sealing it off.

The info from the 90's is better than any specific location information I can remember. You have to realize that my visits were around 35 years ago. They were also always under the dark of night and the haze of Strohs, Schlitz or Schaefer beer and good columbian weed. :)

You don't see much of any of that anymore.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Cary ()
Date: December 18, 2009 08:47PM

The following image was uploaded anonymously using the anonymous image upload tool available here: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/media/uploadfile.html

PohickCrypts1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 21, 2009 10:39AM

Cary, fucking awesome. Period.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: 496 ()
Date: December 21, 2009 11:56AM

Creepy looking place. That shot would be fantastic with snow falling.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 22, 2009 07:52AM

Hey Cary,

I tried my hand at using the upload tool and failed. If you have a minute, can you work your magic and post a few more pics. Now that I've gotten a taste I need more.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hippie ()
Date: December 22, 2009 07:13PM

I uploaded the picture above using the upload tool. Not sure how it made to this thread but I assume Cary is an administrator on this sight and did it. I uploaded five more pictures last night using the upload tool. Waiting for them to show up on this thread.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: trogdor! ()
Date: December 22, 2009 07:25PM

Hippie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I uploaded the picture above using the upload
> tool. Not sure how it made to this thread but I
> assume Cary is an administrator on this sight and
> did it. I uploaded five more pictures last night
> using the upload tool. Waiting for them to show up
> on this thread.


Very cool pic. I'm interested in seeing more. I believe you can upload them right into the tread too if you want.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Genevieve ()
Date: December 22, 2009 07:44PM

Are there any pictures of the original building? It seems like such a shame to cover up something like that. Stupid vandals. Nowadays they'd be fighting off the kids that think they're vampires.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Dirty Jersey ()
Date: December 22, 2009 08:22PM

And if anyones having a hard time using historicaerials.com, heres the '62 aerial photo of the crypt.



And from 'birds eye' on Bing maps you can clearly see the monument still standing (hit the rotate arrows on the left to see different angles)

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qfj0b28k07p6&scene=22944946&lvl=2&sty=b



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2009 08:35PM by Dirty Jersey.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Real Sculler ()
Date: December 23, 2009 07:17AM

Thanks for the links, especially the bing.com! That monument should make it pretty hard to miss when I go looking for it. I'm kinda curious about whether or not Poes Road is still in existance and if you can follow it in.

If anyone can post those uploaded pictures that'd awesome!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Cary ()
Date: December 23, 2009 07:01PM

The following images were uploaded anonymously using the anonymous image upload tool available here: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/media/uploadfile.html

PohickCrypts2.jpg
PohickCrypts3.jpg
CRYPT0.JPG
CRYPT1.JPG
CRYPT2.JPG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: December 23, 2009 09:26PM

In the above pictures, the last big picture is an outside view of the hole that you had to enter and then climb down to enter the chamber of the crypt. What you had to climb down on the inside is shown in the first small picture. Looks like it's a gate that they tried to block off.

The second small picture shows the inside of the crypt which was really dark (most of the time people went there at night) and the ground had a lot of stones on it which made it hard to walk. In the back was a smaller room where people would sit and party. I remember there being some kind of stone slab which you could sit on. I also remember there being a marble plaque of a battleship in one of the walls.

The large pictures above were taken in the fall of 1982 when I was driving home from college for fall break. I stopped at the Pohick Crypts to show them to a friend who I was giving a ride home. I'm mad at myself for only having taken three pictures. I found the three small pictures on a high school web site.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 24, 2009 06:55AM

Oh Man! Just fuckin' sweet! Thanks alot for the pictures!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 24, 2009 06:57AM

Hey, in relation to the tall, skinny tower (first large picture), where is the entrance (2nd picture) with what looks like "91" over it?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: December 24, 2009 06:38PM

The very first picture of this thread (the landscape view) was taken looking towards Route 1. I stood basically in the same spot and turned to the left and took the picture of the tower. (I never noticed this until now, but the first two pictures posted both contain the same shadow which can be used to relate the pictures) The entrance that you climbed down (the 91 picture) is in the back middle of the landscape picture but you can't really make the connection looking at the pictures. But if you walked straight through the arch in the very first picture and through a courtyard, you would have ended up at the entrance you had to climb down (the 91 picture).

Walking through the woods from Route 1 and past the house in the woods on the left (as described in previous posts) the first thing you would have come to on your right was the "91" picture. You can see they tried to block the entrance gate by piling up a bunch of dirt in front of the gate but it didn't work at keeping people out.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: native 63 ()
Date: December 26, 2009 09:01AM

It was the summer of 1977 my buddies Donald, Tommy and Adam and I went to see the movie The Sentinal at mount vernon theater then went down to the crypts as we did many times. This night we took a couple of 9 volt flood lights with us. We met this older dude out side the gate. He asked us for a beer and when we gave it to him he poped it open and asked us if we wanted to check out the lower level. We nearly pissed our pants. We crawled down to the main level and walked back to the smaller room off to thr right as shown in photo #4 above. Our lights really let us see well for the first time. This older guy had us help him lift a big broken piece of marble that was laying flat on the floor. It took all of us to lift it and the old guy made us promise to put it back before we moved it, which we did. Under the slab was a metal grate with a stairwell leading down. The opening was about 5ft by 3ft there were about ten stairs. The room below was about 25ft by 20ft. In the room was a large "family tomb" (marble casket) and two really small tombs. The celing was about ten ft high with a large metal candlelabra. The walls had some really cool marble plaques inbedded in the brick walls. Our lights only lasted about ten minuets and putting the slab back in the total darkness was a bitch but we promised the old dude. The only time I went back after that was with chicks and I wasn't to check out the crypt.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Stoney ()
Date: December 27, 2009 09:54AM

I always heard about there being additional underground levels but never knew how to get to them. I have a local newspaper article about the mausoleum and it says it "had five levels of underground chambers". When I get a chance I scan it and post it.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 28, 2009 12:31PM

"And "The Crypts!" Ahh, yes, popular place for the "heads" to hang out in my high-school years. What you're talking about is the "Remeum" - the Remy family mausoleum. It's still there, but most of the structures are destroyed or inaccessible because they bulldozed dirt over the entrances (yes they did it once before and someone dug a hole in the mound to get in the door you had to slide down in - very spooky. Fairly complex inside with several unused stone sarcophagi in the back rooms. Any residents had long sense been moved. Google Remeum if you're curious.

It's on the back property of the old Pohick Episcoal Church (George Washington's family church) on Rt 1 in Lorton. Along with many No Tresspassing signs - and the holes are once again filled over. It's a shame because back when it was new, it must have really been something to see. There was a bas-reilef of a WW2 battleship set in one of the exterior wall and other stuff of that sort. Statues, etc."

I found this post from "John B" from the "Western Theme Park" thread when people were talking about the good old days around Fairfax. Seeing as the "91" picture is at least 15 years old, I'm guessing that the entrance has in fact been bulldozed over once again and that there are more than enough "No Trespassing" for one not to be able to play stupid should the cops show up.

Major bummer, but I should've guessed that someone would plow over it in order to keep people out. I'm thinking that if it was still accessible kids would still be going down there to have a good scare. Even with kids being as lame as they are today, 3 potential stories of underground burial chambers just sounds like ALOT of fun to explore!

Regardless, I still plan on taking a look for myself.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Area Man ()
Date: December 28, 2009 01:18PM

I don't think that the 91 in the photo is indicative of a year. I went out there in the winter of 87/88 with some friends who had been going there for years and almost everything had already been bulldozed over. The only thing left was the obelisk. A large area around the obelisk was raised about 4 feet, we had to scramble up an incline with lots of rubble mixed in with loose dirt to get to where the entrance had been. We didn't look around too much, it was dark and we were scared that people from the nearby house would come over because their dog kept barking. My friends looked for any kind of way down into the crypts, but they said that the one remaining entrance had been demolished.

My friends later heard that they decided to raze the whole thing because one of the local biker gangs, The Pharaohs, had been going into the crypt area to party.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 28, 2009 01:36PM

It'd probably still be worth having a look around in the daylight.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 28, 2009 02:14PM

Are you sure it was the Pharoahs? When I look them up, all I find is sight about an African-American Motorcycle Club that's all about helping the community and crap like that. They don't really come across as the kind of hell-raisers that would drive the county to tear it down due to their wild parties. Sounds more like something the Pagans would do.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: native 63 ()
Date: December 28, 2009 03:02PM

here is a pic of the ol man.
Attachments:
Remey_In_Later_Years.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Area Man ()
Date: December 28, 2009 04:01PM

Not sure about the exact biker gang. My friends grew up in that area and when we went there they were also nervous about running into bikers. Someone else might remember if any bikers did really use that place to party.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hatemotor ()
Date: December 28, 2009 04:29PM

Area Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure about the exact biker gang. My friends
> grew up in that area and when we went there they
> were also nervous about running into bikers.
> Someone else might remember if any bikers did
> really use that place to party.


It was the Pagans hangout,,,,,they had a big rumble with the Hell's Angels on halloween night in the early 80's--tons of ambulances out in front of the church--after that we never saw any Pagans in Lorton again
I assume the rumble did not go well for them

They lived in Lorton in the late 70's-early 80's,,,raised hell etc

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: December 28, 2009 06:15PM

Which gang had the house on Guinea Road where the black girl was raped?

I heard the Klan, not fond of race mixing, once showed up there after the news got out and had a rumble with the bikers.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: January 15, 2010 03:18PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 07:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 16, 2010 01:52AM

I used to visit the crypts a lot in the mid and late 70's. The church Rector or some caretaker had a house 100 yards from the path. He had dogs that he would let loose if he heard you walking down the path. That is why we only went by that entrance in the summer (leaves hid our approach). In the winter, we would go through the woods and arrive on the opposite side of the crypts.

We heard about the extra underground floors to but could never get to them.

Once, we had to wait out the cops for about 45 minutes with no lights or sound while we watched their legs pass by the outside of the entrance.

My younger went back there about ten years ago and it has been completely leveled. He said that there was no way of getting back in.

It sure was a cool and scary place to bring friends when you had no money to do anything else.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 16, 2010 01:57AM

Here's a photo I took of some of my highschool buddies posing behing the statue of Remey & his wife.
Attachments:
crypt963.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 16, 2010 01:59AM

Here's another friend lying in the large stone sarcophagus in the left rear room. I thinks he was class valedictorian! Seriously.
Attachments:
drunkagain.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Elle Diabla ()
Date: January 16, 2010 09:56AM

Ewwww, is that sewage that he's lying in??


And did Remey's wife have no legs???

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 18, 2010 07:05AM

Hip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The very first picture of this thread (the
> landscape view) was taken looking towards Route 1.
> I stood basically in the same spot and turned to
> the left and took the picture of the tower. (I
> never noticed this until now, but the first two
> pictures posted both contain the same shadow which
> can be used to relate the pictures) The entrance
> that you climbed down (the 91 picture) is in the
> back middle of the landscape picture but you can't
> really make the connection looking at the
> pictures. But if you walked straight through the
> arch in the very first picture and through a
> courtyard, you would have ended up at the entrance
> you had to climb down (the 91 picture).
>
> Walking through the woods from Route 1 and past
> the house in the woods on the left (as described
> in previous posts) the first thing you would have
> come to on your right was the "91" picture. You
> can see they tried to block the entrance gate by
> piling up a bunch of dirt in front of the gate but
> it didn't work at keeping people out.


Bob, I think this is the best description thus far on how to find the entrance. Granted, the archway leading into the courtyard may not be there anymore, but it does let you know where it would be in relation to the large "tower" that is obviously still there based on the www.bing.com pictures.

If anyone can recall how far it might have been from the tower that would help, even an approximate distance.

Let us know what you find. The underground chambers are sure to still be there. I'm thinking they just plowed alot of dirt over everything to discourage people from going in, and also confuse them as to where the entrance is. But if you're armed with some good information and willing to do some digging I'm sure it'll be worth your while, based on the pictures (thanks for the latest addition, Jimbo).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: January 18, 2010 07:29AM

Jimbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My younger went back there about ten years ago and
> it has been completely leveled. He said that there
> was no way of getting back in.

That is very disappointing.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 18, 2010 07:56AM

Where there's a will, there's a way.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: MrDoctor ()
Date: January 18, 2010 11:37AM

subscribed

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Rob ()
Date: January 18, 2010 05:07PM

Maybe the 1st annual fairfax underground get together?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: January 20, 2010 07:42PM

Last Monday afternoon I went out to the Pohick Crypts. The same old gate was there in front of the path that leads to the Crypt. Did not see any No Trespassing signs. They tried to block the path with a bunch of cut down trees but it wasn't that hard to climb around it. I ended up walking through the woods on the right side of path, away from the Rector's house. The brick cross is still there and was easy to find. I haven't been out there since 1983 but the area is now overgrown with sticker bushes and trees (must be really bad to walk around there in the summer). It looks like the whole area where the actual crypts were is now buried and there's a hill there now. The area used to be pretty flat and only had tall grass. Could not see anything from the original crypt except two brick structures that look like some type of vents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2010 08:59PM by Hip.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: January 20, 2010 07:48PM

Pictures from 1/18/2010
Attachments:
IMG_2990v1.jpg
IMG_2982v1.jpg
IMG_2976.jpg
IMG_2979.jpg
IMG_2975.jpg
IMG_2978.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: January 20, 2010 07:51PM

Looking from the cross towards where the crypts used to be.
Attachments:
IMG_2980.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: January 20, 2010 08:01PM

Here are some pictures of the two vent like structures. They're close together, separated by about 10 feet.
Attachments:
IMG_2995.jpg
IMG_2997.jpg
IMG_2994.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 21, 2010 07:33AM

After seeing the pictures of the vents (which are great, by the way. Thanks alot Hip), I'm thinking that those are probably the best way in.

If there are not any 'No Tresspassing' signs (which is GREAT news) then I feel like that leaves you alot of options. If someone's out in the middle of the woods and they were to take a few swings at the vents with a hammer in order to create a hole in the side of the vent large enough to fit in, hopefully no one will notice. And I'm thinking if those structures are over 65 years old, it won't take much to get some of the bricks out with that old mortar holding it together. Then it's just a matter of tying a rope to one of those sturdy looking trees and having the balls to drop yourself down the vent with a decent flashlight. No digging required! Hell, you can see right through that one vent!

Of course, make sure you've got the upper body strength to pull your ass out. Because that would all kinds of suck to be stuck down there. Those batteries are only gonna last for so long, and ain't NOBODY gonna hear you yelling from down there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: MrDoctor ()
Date: January 21, 2010 10:10AM

The vent is the access point. Lets schedule a fairfax underground dig

Edit: "and ain't NOBODY gonna hear you yelling from down there."

Dont tempt anyone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2010 10:12AM by MrDoctor.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Access ()
Date: January 21, 2010 04:56PM

Access via the vents may be difficult; they look like they are not hollow. Here are photos my friends took when they visited in 2005.
Attachments:
DSCF2811.JPG
DSCF2730.JPG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Numbers ()
Date: January 21, 2010 06:56PM

I've been there many times. When we were teenagers, we used to take chicks there and party. You'd have to climb down a few levels to get to the area where people partied. Rumor was that the Pagans Motorcycle gang are responsible for destroying the statues and stuff. It used to be that on any given friday or saturday night, there would be people down there drinking and smoking pot.

It was a great way to get chicks to hang all over you because they were so spooked by it. There was only candles or flashlights and if either went out, you were fucked. The only scary part for me was getting in and out of it and sometimes the cops would stop by and people would scatter like roaches.

I wish there were more creepy places like that still around for kids today.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: January 21, 2010 09:54PM

Fantastic photos, a very interesting part of local history.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 22, 2010 07:25AM

Well, Access, that certainly is another potential wrinkle. If all the vents are constructed like that it probably means they're not very accessible, at least not without ALOT more demolition than I'd had in mind. The flu pipes obviously look too skinny for the average person to fit down, and that's a shitload of concrete in between the 3 of them. I still wanna get a look at them myself with a flashlight and see if I'm able to get a look down into them and try and get an idea of how far down they go.

But looking back at your friend's pictures, one of those vents has 3 holes in the side and one has 4. So maybe they're not all constructed the same way and some are potentially more accessible than others (we can only hope). I'm gonna have to take a look for myself in the near future.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 22, 2010 10:20AM

Just for a reference, can anyone from back in the day give me an idea of how far underground the entrance to the crypts were back in the 80's before they buried the whole thing. I'm trying to get a picture of how far down the vents go that are still above ground.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: JImbo ()
Date: January 23, 2010 04:21PM

We used to light candles and lie down on the slabs to creep out any newbies that we would bring down there. It backfired once because someone came to the entrance while we were down in the crypt and we had little birthday candles lit all over the place. It's hard to hide and pretend no one is down there when they see candles everywhere (that only burn for 5-10 minutes max).

One night, the place filled with people who came in after us. They got too wild and too loud, knocking over things, shouting and screaming. We knew it was only a matter of time before the cops came so we left for the road. On the way to our car, we walked through the Pohick Church Cemetery and rang the huge bell in the graveyard. Man, it was really loud! We ran like scared rabbits, running into each other and tripping over grave markers. As we pulled away in our car, we saw a Police paddy wagon pulling onto the access road. Good timing for us!

It sure was a lot of fun!
Attachments:
crypt961.jpg
crypt967.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 23, 2010 04:30PM

That huge stone coffin/sarcophagus just to bury one little Budweiser can, hmmm.

I brought my then future wife to the crypts one evening before going out to the movies in Springfield. We got about 1/3 down the path from the street when we heard dogs running through the woods towards us. We turned to run just when they popped out onto the path to bark and growl at us. I think they were golden retrievers, but I am not sure. I remember that they did not look that menacing but I wasn't going to put it to the test. My girlfriend/wife could barely run in her sandals. I never did get her into the crypts.

It made for a good creepy mood for the horror movie we were going to see.
Attachments:
Crypt638.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 23, 2010 04:34PM

I wonder if someone could lower a video camera down one of those vents (the kind with the infra red light source that will work in total darkness.. Sony makes them) from a rope and see what is down there? I have a cheapo Sony handycam with 'nightshot' feature but I do not live close enough to try this.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 25, 2010 07:04AM

Jimbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if someone could lower a video camera
> down one of those vents (the kind with the infra
> red light source that will work in total
> darkness.. Sony makes them) from a rope and see
> what is down there? I have a cheapo Sony handycam
> with 'nightshot' feature but I do not live close
> enough to try this.

I was thinking of something along those lines when I was brainstorming this weekend. I don't have access to that kind of equipment. But maybe someone could at least get their upper body into the opening in the side of the vent, tie flashlight to a rope and lower it down the flu pipe to get an idea whether or not the vents go straight down and how far down they go.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 25, 2010 07:06AM

By the way, Jimbo, thanks for the new pictures. That is one big fucking sarcophagus.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: January 25, 2010 04:32PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 07:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Munkey_D ()
Date: January 25, 2010 05:53PM

If you find the entrance, I have NVG I would like to to try out =]

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Cary ()
Date: January 25, 2010 09:02PM

The following image was uploaded anonymously using the anonymous image upload tool available here: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/media/uploadfile.html


f7_thumb.JPG
thumbnail, click for full-size original

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 26, 2010 07:18AM

Hip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The very first picture of this thread (the
> landscape view) was taken looking towards Route 1.
> I stood basically in the same spot and turned to
> the left and took the picture of the tower. (I
> never noticed this until now, but the first two
> pictures posted both contain the same shadow which
> can be used to relate the pictures) The entrance
> that you climbed down (the 91 picture) is in the
> back middle of the landscape picture but you can't
> really make the connection looking at the
> pictures. But if you walked straight through the
> arch in the very first picture and through a
> courtyard, you would have ended up at the entrance
> you had to climb down (the 91 picture).
>
> Walking through the woods from Route 1 and past
> the house in the woods on the left (as described
> in previous posts) the first thing you would have
> come to on your right was the "91" picture. You
> can see they tried to block the entrance gate by
> piling up a bunch of dirt in front of the gate but
> it didn't work at keeping people out.


Bob, this is the best written description on this thread that describes where the entrance was. The problem is that the structure with the arch is is completely gone (from what we've been told) so you would have to get your bearings from the tower and basically face Route 1. As far as distance is concerned, that might be tricky.

Another place to start would be the picture that Hip contributed, since he remembers the entrance being there. Scroll up to the picture of the clearing with the thorn bushes in the foreground, burn that into your memory and try and go from there.

Good luck. From what's been said, you've got about 4 to 8 feet of digging to do.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 26, 2010 07:22AM

Hip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looking from the cross towards where the crypts
> used to be.

Hip, is it possible that you could give us an idea of where this location (the picture that you took of the clearing) was in relation to the vents and the cross/tower? I.E., from what direction if you're standing at the vents or tower, possibly even distances if you can remember.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Munkey_D ()
Date: January 26, 2010 12:01PM

I think I may be checking this place out within the next week to do some surveying.. I'll post some pics up if I can

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 26, 2010 01:33PM

Thanks, Munkey, any additional pictures of the site would be great. I plan on getting down there in the near future myself.

The fact that you say you're going to be doing some surveying down there got my attention. There aren't any plans to dig up the crypts that still exist underground, are there? Any chance that you have access to some tools that might help us find the entrance?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: January 26, 2010 03:07PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 07:05PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 26, 2010 03:20PM

From the accounts that I've read on this forum and else where, they pretty much leveled everything that was above ground (with the exception of the vents and the tower) and dumped alot of dirt on top of that. From what I've read, you know for sure that you're at the right spot due to the fact that the ground is raised and leveled about 4 feet high. I'm not sure how large this area of raised ground is because I've still yet to get out there myself.

Unless someone from back in the day can tell us where the entrance is in relation to the raised ground, you'd have to go off the vents and tower.

Let us know what you find, a tip of the hat to your dedication.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 26, 2010 03:26PM

Bob, here's the account that I read about the "4 feet" of raised ground, from NorVApics.com:

"Back in 1995 I worked for a company and was doing renovation work at the Lower Potomac Pollution Plant on Route 1. At some point I brought up the mausoleum to my co-worker who knew a little about it. He told me his brother used to frequent the place but didn't have any more info. He talked to his brother who said it might have been buried by the county and remembered a newspaper article to that effect. He also found out that the mausoleum was directly between the Pollution Plant and Pohick church on Route 1.

One day we finished a little early and decided to trek through the woods and see what we could find. After an hour or so we came upon a large raised area of earth, it was about 4 feet tall, and overgrown with weeds and grass. There were several brick stacks which had something similar to chimney caps on them, I assumed some sort of ventilation stacks? We also discovered a couple of small memorials and a rather large obelisk (about 30 feet tall) dedicated to Charles Remey's father (Rear Admiral Charles Collier Remey). I was still curious and vowed to return one day with a shovel and search for an entrance but never did. Now finding out that it was bulldozed I'm glad I never went back, I don't think I would ever have found an entrance. "

Hope that helps.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: John G ()
Date: January 26, 2010 03:28PM

I'd be more worried about a cave in of some sort... it is getting old with age...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Munkey_D ()
Date: January 26, 2010 04:14PM

Correct, an old crypt like that with probably hundreds of pounds of dirt piled over it would create stress down there.. If anyone does venture in, make sure you have someone you know aware that your going in as well as an emergency plan on how to get out in case of an emergency. I think the last thing we would want is someone on this forum getting hurt.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 27, 2010 09:18AM

Legitimate concerns, I'll give you that. But the entrance still needs to be found first, before we start coming up with worst-case senarios. True, it is a 70 year old structure we're talking about, but Remey paid literally millions of dollars (back in the 1930s) to have it built to last. And if all they did 20 years ago was demolish what was above ground and spread a few feet of dirt over an area that's hundreds of feet across, we're not talking about that much additional weight. And as I've said before, if it's true that there really is up to 3 underground levels down there, had they been destroyed there would be a sizable hole in the earth (and no vents above ground). So I'm thinking that it's stood the test of time down there, and should be structurally sound. But I can appreciate the concern for safety.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Charlie Schmidts ()
Date: January 27, 2010 10:05AM

Where is it on this picture?
Attachments:
church.bmp

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 27, 2010 10:53AM

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.70739,-77.196829&num=1&t=h&sll=38.709188,-77.193299&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&gl=us&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.707306,-77.19684&spn=0.003893,0.006856&z=17

The green arrow is approximately the center of what used to be the entire above-ground structure.

Having said that, let's not let the wrong people get wind of what we're interested in. If hordes of people start showing up in the woods behind this church, someone's gonna put 2 and 2 together and THERE WILL be nothing but a hole in the earth where there used to be incredible history, and no one will have the chance to appreciate it. Exploration and vandalism are two different things. As far as I can tell, none of us are the knuckle-dragging bikers or spray-painters that had The Crypts buried in the first place. We're merely curious and interested in what others have long-since forgotten, but the wrong uptight, pencil-pusher working for the County will probably not see it that way. So, please be smart when you're there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 27, 2010 12:57PM


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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 27, 2010 01:14PM

Bah! The stupid link didn't work.

Anyway, this is the book that I found on-line that's available in the Virginia Room at the Fairfax City Regional Branch. Given the title, I'm thinking it would be somewhat of a help. It was published in 1954, so I'm hoping that there's some kind of drawing that gives the location of the entrance if the mausoluem was completed in the 40's. I feel like someone may have already suggested looking in the Virginia Room earlier, but I can't remember.


"A series of twelve of the preliminary architectural studies for a mausoleum for the Remey Family"
Remey, Charles Mason, 1874-1974.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: whobe ()
Date: January 27, 2010 04:04PM

I've been there back in the late 80's and it was already covered up, from what I could tell they only covered the whole thing with dirt and maybe broke down the front entrance first? From the pics it looks like it was very well made with the roof being a vault design which is very strong, I don't think they actually busted the roof off the place or anything just the entrance and then piled dirt on top. If you find that you'll probably have alot of bricks/block etc. to get through first. If it had collapsed there'd be a big depression somewhere and we haven't seen that so you should be safe inside if you get in.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: January 27, 2010 08:01PM

When I took the recent picture of where the crypts used to be (post January 20, 2010 07:51PM) I tried to take it from the same area and viewpoint that the very first picture (post December 18, 2009 08:47PM) in this thread was taken. Kind of hard to do though because the area is so different, but that was my goal.

Regarding the vent like structures, I don't remember those at all when I was there in the early 1980s. They must have been behind the filled in gate entrance you had to climb down to get into the crypt. One thing to keep in mind is that the vent structures are pretty close to the rector's house. You can see the rector's house from the vents.

It would be interesting to know how the original structures were demolished. I'm guessing they knocked down all the above ground structures and then covered the area with a few feet of dirt. But from what's been posted here and from what I've read, there were some underground levels. Those would have been a lot of work to fill so I'll bet they still exist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2010 08:02PM by Hip.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: January 27, 2010 08:19PM

Here's a 1992 Springfield Connection article about the mausoleum. I added a pointer to the part about five levels of underground chambers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2010 08:22PM by Hip.
Attachments:
Part1.jpg
Part21.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: joedirt ()
Date: January 27, 2010 08:57PM

I just wanted to inform everyone on this subject that the remey Crypt was completely and utterly caved in and distroyed with excavation equiptment around 1982'ish. My dads friend worked for a grading company and he told me about the Crypt and demolition he performed there. The church paid for a all out demolition of the underground structure with Excavators then filled it in with dirt from a local construction site that was digging out a foundation for a building in DC. Im sure if you dig around you might find a brick or 2.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 28, 2010 08:16AM

"They did not dig up and destroy the underground passages. They plowed dirt over the structure in an attempt to bury it but that was only superficial. There was a dirt tunnel you had to climb down through to come in from the ceiling of the mausoleum. There were statues whose heads were broken off with candles lit on top, other marble structures, passages and other rooms."

joedirt, that's a quote from CBLB78 from when this thread first started. So, I'm not sure who to believe. Of course, I'd much rather believe CBLB78, although he doesn't have a date to reference. As myself and a couple of other people have said, if they were to excavate FIVE underground stories (didn't realize there were that many till Hip posted the article, thanks alot by the way), I feel like someone else would've posted it by now. We've only been talking about this for a month and half now, and no one else has said anything else about the Crypts being filled in. Granted, joedirt, your "1982'ish" date does jive with alot of the accounts on here as far no one having stated they've been down there after that date.

I'm tempted to just call the church and ask if it wouldn't (a) seriously raise suspicions about people going out there again, and (b) just prompt them to think fast and indeed concur that it was filled in just to discourage anyone from going out there at all. So I doubt I'll do that.

I did call the FFX County Planning and Zoning office yesterday to see if they had blueprints of the Crypts from the 30's, however I posed the question as "I'm looking for blueprints of any mausoleums in Lorton from the 1930's". The woman immediately responded with, "Oh, you mean the one behind Pohick Church?". So some people working for the County still know about it.

So, joedirt and CBLB78, give us some more info. to back up your claims.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: i > u ()
Date: January 28, 2010 08:30AM

The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I did call the FFX County Planning and Zoning
> office yesterday to see if they had blueprints of
> the Crypts from the 30's, however I posed the
> question as "I'm looking for blueprints of any
> mausoleums in Lorton from the 1930's". The woman
> immediately responded with, "Oh, you mean the one
> behind Pohick Church?". So some people working
> for the County still know about it.

So are the blueprints being made available to you or is this a FOIA request in waiting?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 28, 2010 08:40AM

No, they didn't have them. As far as blueprints and plans are concerned, that book I found listed at the FFX City Regional Branch is the best source.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: i > u ()
Date: January 28, 2010 08:56AM

If I can get my hands on a decent (and recent) topo map with a grid I could use the aerial image to trace the approximate location and dimentions of the former structures in relation to the existing structures. That might provide a better idea of where the probable entrance is now located.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 28, 2010 09:29AM

If you think you can pull it off, more power to you. All the pictures on this thread (as well as the location descriptions) are excellent, but the only aerial picture I know of is the one above from 1962. Honestly, I can't tell what the hell anything is from that 1962 Historaerials.com. If you can find where the tower is in that 1962 picture, that would be a start. But then you've got to figure out where the "91" entrance was in relation to that, which could be done with the following:

"The very first picture of this thread (the landscape view) was taken looking towards Route 1. I stood basically in the same spot and turned to the left and took the picture of the tower. (I never noticed this until now, but the first two pictures posted both contain the same shadow which can be used to relate the pictures) The entrance that you climbed down (the 91 picture) is in the back middle of the landscape picture but you can't really make the connection looking at the pictures. But if you walked straight through the arch in the very first picture and through a courtyard, you would have ended up at the entrance you had to climb down (the 91 picture).

Walking through the woods from Route 1 and past the house in the woods on the left (as described in previous posts) the first thing you would have come to on your right was the "91" picture. You can see they tried to block the entrance gate by piling up a bunch of dirt in front of the gate but it didn't work at keeping people out."

(Thanks again, Hip)

If someone who's been there back in the day is good with computers and could possilby label on the 1962 aerial map as to where the tower and entrance were, that would be a big help.

Best of luck finding the maps. Let us know what you find.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: January 28, 2010 09:39AM

The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "They did not dig up and destroy the underground
> passages. They plowed dirt over the structure in
> an attempt to bury it but that was only
> superficial. There was a dirt tunnel you had to
> climb down through to come in from the ceiling of
> the mausoleum. There were statues whose heads were
> broken off with candles lit on top, other marble
> structures, passages and other rooms."
>
> joedirt, that's a quote from CBLB78 from when this
> thread first started. So, I'm not sure who to
> believe. Of course, I'd much rather believe
> CBLB78, although he doesn't have a date to
> reference. As myself and a couple of other people
> have said, if they were to excavate FIVE
> underground stories (didn't realize there were
> that many till Hip posted the article, thanks alot
> by the way), I feel like someone else would've
> posted it by now. We've only been talking about
> this for a month and half now, and no one else has
> said anything else about the Crypts being filled
> in. Granted, joedirt, your "1982'ish" date does
> jive with alot of the accounts on here as far no
> one having stated they've been down there after
> that date.
>
> I'm tempted to just call the church and ask if it
> wouldn't (a) seriously raise suspicions about
> people going out there again, and (b) just prompt
> them to think fast and indeed concur that it was
> filled in just to discourage anyone from going out
> there at all. So I doubt I'll do that.
>
> I did call the FFX County Planning and Zoning
> office yesterday to see if they had blueprints of
> the Crypts from the 30's, however I posed the
> question as "I'm looking for blueprints of any
> mausoleums in Lorton from the 1930's". The woman
> immediately responded with, "Oh, you mean the one
> behind Pohick Church?". So some people working
> for the County still know about it.
>
> So, joedirt and CBLB78, give us some more info. to
> back up your claims.

My times at the crypts were my high school years of 1974 -1978 at Lake Braddock and all the other subsequent accounts and pictures in this thread corraborate my recollections. The initial attempt to bury the structure from what I understand was around 1973 in accordance with the court ruling in 1968 that gave Remey five years to remove remains and anything else from the structure. I was never back there after high school.

There was obviously more than one attempt to destroy the structure from the current and older pcitures with explorers in the crypts. I don't doubt the timing of a thorough destruction in 1982. I'm sure the church and cops got really annoyed at dealing with us teenagers running around back there. Cops were a concern every time you went back there. The first burial obviously didn't get the job done. I'm sure if they wanted it destroyed for good to rid themselves of the "problem" they did it right the second time.

If I were you I wouldn't call the church as it would raise suspicions, most people probably don't know about it anyway and those they do would NOT want you back there. I'd like to hear what people find with further exploration. It's worth some effort despite the distinct possibility that it is buried for good.

I'm glad all this information is now memorialized here. My attempts to research in the past found very little information and people I told probably thought I was crazy. The accounts, pictures, Connection article, etc. from those they lived the Crypts back in the day are awesome. As crazy as my stories sounded they are know backed up from others accounts. I certainly feel privileged to be part of this NoVA folklore!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: i > u ()
Date: January 28, 2010 09:44AM

Ok, that was easier than I thought...but only the first step of many. If anybody would like to contribute to the process please feel free. I'm good with maps, but not the greatest (as my name may suggest)...

Crypt.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 28, 2010 10:01AM

Thanks for the reference date, CBLB78. Sadly, it's looking more and more like what joedirt said is true. At first I was hoping he was just someone joking around and trying to be a wet towel, but that may not be the case.

But a 5 story underground exavation is a shitload of digging! I'm wondering if they just destroyed the 1st and 2nd level and filled it in from there, leaving the remaining bottom levels. They must have been REALLY sick of people being in there if they not only dug up 5 sub-levels, but also trucked in enough dirt to completely fill it all in.

So there's another question: Were ALL of the levels of the Crypts destroyed and filled in?

joedirt, can your father's friend provide you with any more details on the exavation?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: papashango ()
Date: January 28, 2010 10:50AM

I really find it hard to believe that they did such a thorough job of demolition given that they left the vents intact. That doesn't make any sense to me.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Munkey_D ()
Date: January 28, 2010 10:56AM

With all this excitement at hand, I would like to add, regardless if the crypts are to be found or not, excavated or not, it has certainly been very interesting to see and read about the fascinations that come with history and exploration. Kudos to everyone.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 28, 2010 01:01PM

Here's someone's recent Facebook blog about the Crypts. Some people also remember the lions at the entrance, and there's some interesting accounts about a room for someone's daughter that died at a young age. Someone on Facebook even links the blog to THIS THREAD!

http://eu-es.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=10187715121&topic=11155

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 28, 2010 10:46PM

I think finding a way into the crypts is more difficult that we thought. Look at these images I just copied from GOOGLE EARTH...

1. taken in 2002: It is labeled according to my memory and the proximity to the church, the caretaker (stumpy the guard, who would let his dogs loose at the sound of noisy teenagers)and the walking path. You can see the bare area of the bulldozed crypts. Not much left.

2. taken THIS MONTH in 2010: Homes built on top of hallowed ground!! These people don't know that they are at risk of being haunted forever by the ghosts of weekends past, stale beer and spend condoms! It's like Poltergeist all over again.

I still hope someone nearby can confirm or deny this as I would like to go back one day and explore. Maybe my memory and landmarks are wrong but I don't think so.
Attachments:
crypt2002.jpg
crypt2010.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 28, 2010 10:48PM

Wow! That second satellite photo was actually taken today!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: G ()
Date: January 29, 2010 01:32AM

those images are labelled incorrectly... the crypts were closer to the center of the pics, the remaining tower is located about where the question mark is

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 29, 2010 07:30AM

G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> those images are labelled incorrectly... the
> crypts were closer to the center of the pics, the
> remaining tower is located about where the
> question mark is

Jimbo,

G is correct. I've never been to the Crypts myself, but those new townhouses ARE NOT built on top of them. First, the image that you found from 2002 only shows where they cleared land for the construction of the townhomes, not where they bulldozed the Crypts. Since they bulldozed the Crypts for the last time in '82, vegetation that had been cleared 20 years ago would have had time to grow back and would not look like that from the air. Secondly, take a look at Historicaeials.com (hopefully the link below works) and you'll see that G is correct in that the Crypts were much closer to Stumpy's house than you recall.

I can see how you'd think that the townhomes were built on top of the Crypts, but they weren't. If all the accounts on this thread state that the Crypts were below all the underground structures, and the aerial photos put them at the location in the link below, the townhomes are not on top of what used to be the Cyrpts. Nice maps, however. Knowing where that path into woods is located will come in handy.

http://www.historicaerials.com?poi=9732

(you're gonna have to click on 1962, as that didn't seem to transfer in the link)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Stoney ()
Date: January 29, 2010 05:42PM

The bing.com link provided in the posting dated December 22, 2009 08:22PM provides the best view. Check it out. You can clearly see the brick cross and get an overall view of the site. I used the rotate botton to put Route 1 at the bottom of the screen. That way it was like actually walking down the path towards the crypt because the house off to the left.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: January 29, 2010 09:40PM

That's a relief!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: joedirt ()
Date: January 29, 2010 10:24PM

I when I talked to my father’s friend about it a few weeks back when this thread started he just told me that they completely caved in the tomb. I was not aware it was 5 levels in depth. Rests assure I will call him up by the end of the week and get more info on it. I do know when they filled in the tomb they had to perform an environmental impact study and pull permits for it. Anything underground you fill in even such as a pool you have to do so. They basically don’t want air pockets and water pockets to form that would create a possible sink hole in the future. Unfortunately FFX only keeps permits on record for 5 years depending what kind they are and I doubt they still have them. That is why they buried the front entrance in dirt at first because a demo and fill in is a very expensive thing. He never mentioned to me it was 5 stories underground which seems a bit deep and I am a bit skeptical of. I’ll have more info by the end of the week. I hate to be the buzz kill on this one and wish the tomb was still there but from what I understand It sounded to me it was completely destroyed.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: January 31, 2010 03:38PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 07:01PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: paranormal activitayz ()
Date: February 01, 2010 08:58AM

man.. i couldnt imagine what id do if I just bought a house and realized it was on burial grounds

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Gonads & Strife ()
Date: February 01, 2010 09:03AM

Probably inquire as to whether or not the remains had been relocated. If so I'd just go ahead and live in the house considering spirits don't (typically) hang around where their body was burried.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Boo ()
Date: February 01, 2010 09:06AM

News flash!
Just about every inch of land here in this country has been sacred Native American burrial grounds at one time or another.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Zoomer ()
Date: February 01, 2010 05:54PM

Hey Guys - I've been following the thread for awhile now, but not commented. I went to Edison High in the 70's and used to go to the Crypt quite a bit. I got there by going down the road past Stumpy's house (always on alert for dogs and the threat of a shotgun full of rock salt) and by parking in the cemetary and going through the woods.

Anyway, I remember the entrance much closer to the "S" in Stumpy's....

-Z

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 02, 2010 07:15AM

joedirt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I when I talked to my father’s friend about it a
> few weeks back when this thread started he just
> told me that they completely caved in the tomb. I
> was not aware it was 5 levels in depth. Rests
> assure I will call him up by the end of the week
> and get more info on it. I do know when they
> filled in the tomb they had to perform an
> environmental impact study and pull permits for
> it. Anything underground you fill in even such as
> a pool you have to do so. They basically don’t
> want air pockets and water pockets to form that
> would create a possible sink hole in the future.
> Unfortunately FFX only keeps permits on record for
> 5 years depending what kind they are and I doubt
> they still have them. That is why they buried the
> front entrance in dirt at first because a demo and
> fill in is a very expensive thing. He never
> mentioned to me it was 5 stories underground which
> seems a bit deep and I am a bit skeptical of. I’ll
> have more info by the end of the week. I hate to
> be the buzz kill on this one and wish the tomb was
> still there but from what I understand It sounded
> to me it was completely destroyed.

joe,

They would great if you can see what you can find out from that guy. A few different sources on this thread have made it sound like there was more than one level to the Crypts, but it's unclear just how many there were. The newspaper article that was posted claims there were 5, but hopefully you're source can confirm that and we can have some credible information. Let us know what he says.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Zoomer ()
Date: February 04, 2010 05:58PM

I ran into a former member of the Pagans Motorcycle gang that told me that there were other levels and the access was under the large sarcophagus on the left when you entered. He said you could push the whole thing to the side and a square hole was there you could climb down. He said it was pretty torn up down there because they used to throw sticks of dynomite down the hole for the fun of it...

I have been there many times, but only on the first level...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 05, 2010 09:42AM

Pagans...stay classy.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: joedirt ()
Date: February 05, 2010 10:11AM

Alright, got hold of my dads friend the info I got from him was.... They had bluprints of the structure for demo and it was only one level. He laughted at me when I asked him if there were 4 sub levels and told me it was a urband legend people started to enhance the creepyness and mystery of the crypt. When I showed him the pictures of the stacks he did not have a awnser for me as why they were still there or could not remember whey they were left up . He said "strap a video camera to a rope and send it on down and see if any of the crypt is still intact but make sure it is waterproof because if there is and voids that were not filled in they will more than likely submerged in water." He was pissed that people vandalized the crypt and they had to destroy it. They could have declared it a historic landmark and preserved the entire grounds. Anyways, Thats the info I recived....

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: joedirt ()
Date: February 05, 2010 10:14AM

p.s nothing was ever built on top of the original crypts, they left the bricks and concrete in the gound and would cost a builder a enourmous amount of money to make buildable. The crypt is there just in 2 million pices 12 ft under

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Macky ()
Date: February 09, 2010 10:39PM

This is friggin interesting! This would have been a great place to hang out when I was in high school...I went to O'Connell over in Arlington, but had a lot or friends from Annandale (I grew up near Pinecrest). None of my friends had ever heard of it, perhaps it wasn't the place that it was back in the 70's. High school kids in the 70's knew how to friggin party, unlike us 90's kids!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: rootard ()
Date: February 09, 2010 10:42PM

screw Historicaerials
shitty site

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 12, 2010 07:27AM

joe, thanks for the update from your friend. However, I now have absolutely no idea who to believe as to how many levels there were. Your friend says there was one, but the article from the paper says 4 or 5, plus a couple of other accounts on this thread that claim there was more than one level (including the guy claiming the fuck-tard Pagans used to throw dynamite into the lower levels).

Your friend does have a good idea regarding the video camera. It would make a great post. Any takers? It's a sure-fire way to get to the bottom of alot of these unanswered questions. (I would, but I don't have a camera.)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Joedirt ()
Date: February 12, 2010 08:08AM

Call up the guy who wrote the article in the 1990. If he is still alive. Ask him where he recived his information on how may levels there where. Just a reminder, reporters get a lot of thier information from hear say and not fact. Wonder if the old blue prints are up at the fairfax meuseum. I have been up there a few times and they have a ton of info on the county. They also have a bunch of books about local residents and areas in the county writen by locals.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mike1283 ()
Date: February 12, 2010 08:11AM

I would be more likely to believe someone from an annonymous message board over anything that the connection newspaper printed. That article reads like it was done by two high school students writing for the mount vernon high school paper.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Joedirt ()
Date: February 12, 2010 09:03AM

Again, That was the info I received from someone who physically had seen the BP to the tomb. There is no reason for a 67 year old man to lie about what he knows about the tomb. I would have loved for them to declare the tomb a virginia historic landmark before they decided to tear it down. It would have been a very interesting site to see. Unfortunatly I think the Church did not want it there and they probably had a lot of sway with the county for the destruction of it. Back it the 60 it was viewed as satanic/un-christian , thats just my take on it (more than likely incorect). I am going to the fairfax meuseum to see If I can find any info/ blueprints on the place to put it to rest.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 12, 2010 09:51AM

joe, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was calling your friend a liar. Sorry if it came across like that. It's just confusing with so many sources.

Any chance your friend remembers where he saw those blue prints? I called around to a few places and nobody had them in the county. That's why I figure that book that Remey wrote that the Virginia Room has is probably the best place to look for any sort of plans for the Crypts.

Just for fun, I got the name of a guy at the Springfield Connection who has been there for a while who may know Matt Warren (the writer of the article). He wasn't there at the moment, but I'll try to reach him later today. I'd like to see if I can get Matt Warren on the phone and see where he got his info, as you suggested.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: February 12, 2010 11:55AM

I just wanted to say I'm finding the conversation fascinating and look forward to more information from people more intrepid than I!

...and I wish I'd seen this back in the day.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 12, 2010 03:27PM

I finally got a hold of somebody at the Springfield Connection, and they said that since the company that owns the paper has gone through bankrupcy since 1990, they don't have any record of Matt Warner, or a way to get a hold of him.

So, joe, if you can pester your friend on behalf of the rest of us as to where the blueprints he saw might be today, that'd be cool.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: February 12, 2010 08:26PM

The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I finally got a hold of somebody at the
> Springfield Connection, and they said that since
> the company that owns the paper has gone through
> bankrupcy since 1990, they don't have any record
> of Matt Warner, or a way to get a hold of him.

Google?

http://matthewwarner.com/pubs.htm

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Alan Rogers ()
Date: February 12, 2010 10:56PM

If that is the same Matt Warner, impressive WEB site. Thank you all for posting the pictures, history, and first hand accounts. A lot of interresting, forgotten history is on this thread.I would also liked to have seen the Remey Crypt before the vandalism. I went there twice during the late 70's. Once at night with a friend who said he heard there was other parts to the Crypt other than what was accessible at that time. Also went there one time during the day. From what I remember (over 30yrs. ago) walking the dirt road just past the rector's house was at least a 10ft.tall overgrown mound of dirt where the Crypt was. Walking around to the oposite side of the mound was where the entrance was and the outside courtyard walls, from what I remember the courtyard appeared to be dug out lower than the surrounding area. Also, if I remember correctly there was a couple of vents for the Crypt, but they were circular metal vent pipes with a metal cover. Could the current pictures of the two square brick structures, instead of vents, be part of the top of the brick courtyard walls? Compare them to the very first picture of the Crypt posted on this thread, notice the cement capstone lying beside one of them in the current pictures.I would like to believe that the Crypt was just buried under more dirt, but also I am not discounting joedirt's post. Keep up the history!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Elizabeth ()
Date: February 13, 2010 01:31AM

I didn't read most of what you all posted, but I've been there. I grew up in Annandale and went to Jefferson High School, class of '80. I have 4 older brothers. Some of whom told me about the "Crypts" but I never believed them. They told me that it was multileveled and that there was a "guard" named Stump who has no legs and numerous dobermans. The crypt was several layers deep. I only saw the first layer. But I did see a wall of cinderblock (obviously new). I saw the "baby" casket with 1"x3" wedges lifting the top. I did a lot of research in the library at the time. Remy's were a very regal family. Most of them finished at the top of their class at West Point. I have a piece of something...I'm not sure what. It's green marble and it has a star. I've thought of giving it back to the family...but it means so much to me. It keeps the family alive.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mike1283 ()
Date: February 13, 2010 06:42AM

Holy crap, i was right, he was in high school when he wrote that. I was just kidding. My god, I should be picking lottery numbers!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: AlBlaster ()
Date: February 13, 2010 05:14PM

Looks like the Springield Connection article is by the same Matthew Warner. I found this on his bibliography page:

Approx. 70 newspaper articles
The Connection Newspapers/Centre View/Manassas Weekly Gazette. (Fairfax County, VA.) June-Aug. 1992.

I just sent him an email (including a link to this thread) asking if he has any additional information he can provide on the Crypts. I would really like to see some pictures of what the outside looked like before it was vandalized in the 70s.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 15, 2010 07:02AM

Thanks, Dane. I'm not sure why I didn't think of Google in the first place. Great find, though.

AlBlaster, let us know when Matthew replies. Hopefully someone who puts that much effort into his website checks/responds his e-mails in a timely fashion.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Matthew Warner ()
Date: February 16, 2010 09:50AM

Hi all,

Yes, indeed, I'm the same Matthew Warner who wrote that old article for the Connection newspaper. I'm sorry I didn't write back earlier; any emails sent through my website form that contain a link are automatically deleted as spam. I just chanced upon this message thread by reviewing my site's stats. (Thanks for the compliments on the design, by the way!)

To answer your questions, I wrote that article while a journalism intern at the Connection during the summer between my freshman and sophomore years at college. I learned of the Remeum from my piano teacher Chris Johnston, who is quoted in the article and whose picture was printed with it. As I recall--and this is 18 years ago, so my memory is a little fuzzy--I obtained most of my information from an extensive file in the Virginia Room of the Fairfax Library. I imagine the file is still there.

I eventually become a much better journalist than I was at age 19, so I'm not sure I even visited the grounds when I composed the article. I eventually did visit it years later while trolling for ideas for a horror novel. I didn't find much except for an old smoke stack, I think, plus a weathered stone bench. I still have the inscription that I found engraved in the bench:

"Greetings from the builder of the Remum
To those who sit here rejoicing
to those who sit here sorrowing
as he himself has done in days past."

Let me know if you have any more questions, although I think that's pretty much all I remember.

Best,
Matt

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 16, 2010 12:04PM

Thanks for getting back to us Matt.

The information that you got about the Crypts having more than one underground level, was that from the file in the Virginia Room or from another source?

Any chance that your former piano teacher might know, if you still keep in touch with him?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Matthew Warner ()
Date: February 16, 2010 02:33PM

It was probably from a written source, if I was that specific. I think the only people I was actually able to interview were Chris and then a person at Pohick Church who obviously wished I never called.

I haven't spoken to Chris in many years, alas. (I miss 'im!) Maybe one of the others here like CBLB78 who've been there might remember.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: February 16, 2010 05:55PM

Matthew Warner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was probably from a written source, if I was
> that specific. I think the only people I was
> actually able to interview were Chris and then a
> person at Pohick Church who obviously wished I
> never called.
>
> I haven't spoken to Chris in many years, alas. (I
> miss 'im!) Maybe one of the others here like
> CBLB78 who've been there might remember.

I didn't know of any other levels back in the day but I would tend to believe they exist(ed) :) from the other posts in this thread.

If the entrances to other levels were covered up I would have never known they existed. The excellent photos of the interior from this thread were the areas I hung out in and I never saw anyone exploring other areas.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 17, 2010 07:09AM

I doubt that a copy of the actual blueprints for the Crypts would necessarily be in the Virginia Room, but the other books that Remey wrote could be useful as far as getting an idea to how many levels there might have been. I'll probably get to the Virginia Room before I get to the Crypts site (for the obvious reason that this shit will NEVER melt!).

joe, is there any word on where your friend saw those original blueprints and where they might be today?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BAC ()
Date: February 19, 2010 09:01AM

The papers of Charles Mason Remey (1874-1974) are located at Princeton University. This url will take you directly to the finding aid:

http://arks.princeton.edu/ark:/88435/1r66j1172

The papers do contain some drawings and other information relating to the Remeum. Duplicates of a few items are also available in the files maintained by the Virginia Room, Fairfax County Public Library (Fairfax, Va.).

Current state law requires building and destruction permits be maintained for 3 years from date of finalization, so the County Dept. of Public Works has no surviving records relating to the building or its destruction.

As for the alleged sub-levels, no such luck. Urban legend. They don't appear on any of the drawings pr surviving photographs. All of the alleged eyewitness testimony are second-hand at best. It is always "I was told..."

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: February 19, 2010 09:47AM

The trustees of Pohick Church had to file a lawsuit to get the Mausoleum "Remeum" demolished.

The case file surely must exist.

Has anyone reviewed it?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 19, 2010 09:58AM

When you say that the sub-levels "don't appear on any of the drawings", I'm assuming that the files that are in the Virginia Room actually have drawings in them of THE CRYPTS that were located in Lorton?

If so, that's great news! I assumed that the book that Remey wrote only had drawings of other crypts that he'd designed and built, but not of the one that was in Lorton. If that's the case, we don't have to bother worrying about where the original blueprints are.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: February 19, 2010 09:58AM

I believe the information here has been posted previously but I am not sure.

The case file should be available through the United States District Court in Alexandria although it is likely housed off site.

In the case file there might be documentation of who contracted to destroy the crypts.

Perhaps the persons or companies that did the work can provide further illumination.



Remey Family Mausoleum (Remeum)

Formerly located @1/2 mile southwest of Pohick Episcopal Church, 9301 Richmond Hwy., Lorton, Va.

In 1937 CHARLES MASON REMEY (1874-1974) contracted with Pohick Episcopal Church for 5.2 acres of land to build a mausoleum for his family. Remey reportedly chose Pohick Church because GEORGE MASON IV, his great grandfather, was a vestryman. Remey was an architect of international reputation and a man of some wealth. Construction of the "Remeum" began in 1939 and was finished in 1948, with more than 2 million bricks, and numerous statues and carvings, most by well known artists, used in the structure. In 1962 the church vestry, motivated by concerns over the size of the ediface and serious problems with vandalism, began to negotiate with Remey to break the 1937 contract. An agreement signed in Federal District Court in 1968 gave Remey until April 1973 to remove anything he wanted from the mausoleum, thereafter ownership reverted to the church. Relatives had @15 burials removed to Pompey, N. Y., and by 1973, the year the building was demolished, only Remey's wife GERTRUDE was still there. Her remains were reinterred at Pohick Church before demolition began.


From Cemeteries of Fairfax County, Virginia by Brian A. Conley

Cemetery Index | Virginia Room

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 19, 2010 11:14AM

GMU Hokie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The trustees of Pohick Church had to file a
> lawsuit to get the Mausoleum "Remeum" demolished.
>
> The case file surely must exist.
>
> Has anyone reviewed it?

Who was the lawsuit against? That would help in the search, because they "negotiated" with Remey (or was the lawsuit considered a negotiation?).
Was it the County?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: February 19, 2010 11:59PM

My friend (the guy lying in the sarcophagus photo on the previous page) found out about the crypts from his mother, who was on some committee to try and preserve it from demolition. There were some creepy exterior and interior photos of it on their dining room table. He brought me to his house to check out the photos. When his mother saw us looking at them she took them away, knowing full well that we would want to go there. She refused to give us any information as to its location since we had a dubious reputation.

Being around 1977 or so, we were limited as to search engines, Google, and aerial maps. We drove around the Pohick/Ft. Belvoir area and asked around. We finally found it just as Alan Rogers described. You climbed over a tall heap of dirt and rubble that barely covered the entrance archway. When you came down the other side you were confronted with the statues of Adm. Remey & wife. Straight back was a relatively new cinder block wall, which we assumed was the previous way to get to the supposed additional underground levels (which we never found after 27 visits!). The sides of the entrance hall was lined with several large statues representing 'faith', 'hope, 'jealousy', etc.

The statue of Adm. Remey & wife was exceptionally creepy to first timers because he was headless and had red candle wax dripping down his chest (see previous photos). His wife's statue was more subtle. She had burn marks on her face but some brilliant sick-o SOB put glow-in-the-dark paint on her face! The typical scenario when bringing newbies to the crypts was to turn around and shine the flashlight on the statue faces. That usually got a "Holy shit!". Almost always, as you swept the flashlight away from the wife, they would see the faint glow from her face and you'd get a "What the f**k is that?!!" or "Pants full!!!"

If you look at the included photo, you will see a slight green/yellow tint on her face as well as the medals on his chest (glow-in-the-dark paint). Behind his right thigh you can see one of the several statues lining the entrance hall.Straight past the archway in the back is the cinder block wall, although you cannot see it on this photo.

Stumpy had legs because I remember seeing his silhouette in his doorway at night, as he let his dogs out to find us. The dogs were not dobermans but something less threatening (golden retrievers or mutts).

It was a great place, especially when you had no money and you were bored.
Attachments:
Crypt636.jpg
cryptFrame9.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: February 20, 2010 12:14PM

Scull,

You might want to make contact with Brian Conley (see below). Last I heard he was operating out of the general district archives in Springfield, but perhaps someone in the Virginia Room at the City of Fairfax Regional Library (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/branches/vr/) could give you his e-mail address.

Brian Conley is the Assistant County Archivist for
Fairfax County. He was the research archivist in the
Virginia Room of the Fairfax County Public Library
until June 2007. He is well-known in our community
for his compilation of County cemetery records of
early residents. He has been a great help to many
members of our Society who have used the Virginia
Room holdings for their own research.
Brian has compiled three books of great interest





The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GMU Hokie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The trustees of Pohick Church had to file a
> > lawsuit to get the Mausoleum "Remeum"
> demolished.
> >
> > The case file surely must exist.
> >
> > Has anyone reviewed it?
>
> Who was the lawsuit against? That would help in
> the search, because they "negotiated" with Remey
> (or was the lawsuit considered a negotiation?).
> Was it the County?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: February 20, 2010 12:21PM

More on the Virginia room . . .

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 20, 2010 05:38PM

Took a trip to the Virginia Room this morning and looked at two of the Remey books. The book called "A series of twelve of the preliminary architectural studies for a mausoleum for the Remey Family" is a history of different mausoleum styles. For each style of mausoleum Remey wrote a description and created three drawings: one of the front view, one of the side view, and a floor plan. One thing I found interesting is that all (or almost all) contained lower levels. The book contained his ideas on mausoleums and does not contain the one he built. The last four pages of the book describe his thoughts on what he would actually build and I think fans of the Remeum will find it very interesting.

The second book I looked at was called "The Rem¯eum" and describes what he actually started to build. I say started to build because he had really big plans and what was actually built was only a small part of his overall plan. He actually set up a trust fund so work could continue after he was dead. He was in his 60's when he started to build the Remeum. The book contains a drawing of his plan (from the top, looking down). I would describe the book as having three parts. The first is a description of what he built, the second is a description of what he planned to add, and the third is a series of pictures of statues and tombs.

I also looked at a folder that contained the report mentioned in the Matt Warner article on this thread. Looks like a high school research project from 1991 and I think it's the most comprehensive article available on the Remeum. There were also two newspaper articles.

I copied some of the more interesting stuff and will post it soon.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2010 07:49PM by Hip.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 20, 2010 05:49PM

Here are the last pages of Remey's mausoleum architecture book. Note the last sentence on page 18 and the first two paragraphs on page 19.
Attachments:
Page18.jpg
page19.jpg
Page20.jpg
Page21.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Alan Rogers ()
Date: February 20, 2010 07:09PM

Thanks Hip For posting the fruits of your research. Remey appears to be a very interresting character. It is a shame a part of his history and legacy had to be destroyed.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: lashdfl ()
Date: February 20, 2010 07:48PM

Doubt the county would have ever given him a permit to build 3 subteranian levels. After they put iron gates and eventually covered the entrance in iron gates, concrete, bricks and eventually 12 ft of dirt and people were still able to get in it but could not get into the alleged underground levels? Hence the reason why I personally dont think there was more than one level. I think he had a grand idea his entire life to build a "pyramid" of his own but, when it came down to local governments approving such a structure he was more than likely denied and had to settle for a single level. If there were more than one level why was his tomb and his families on the first?

A++ to Hip for finding that info

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 20, 2010 09:46PM

Here are some pictures from Remey's Remeum book. The first three are his general plan. The actual drawing was folded up into three pieces and was hard to copy. The second picture joins to the first picture at the Mason Memorial. Also, it's interesting to compare the first picture and half of the second picture to the previously posted HistoricArials photo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2010 07:54PM by Hip.
Attachments:
Layout11.jpg
Layout21.jpg
Layout31.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 20, 2010 10:01PM

More pictures from Remey's Remeum book. The little boy at the bottom was four years old according to one of the plaques on the brick tower.
Attachments:
Book2.jpg
Book222.jpg
RemeyStatue.jpg
Book221.jpg
Book21.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: papashango ()
Date: February 21, 2010 10:42AM

thanks for posting that. very interesting stuff.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Date: February 21, 2010 11:57AM

wow.

very extensive floor plans.

from the paragraphs on page 19 it does sound like he completed what he sought out to do and that being underground lairs.

How could you only build the first floor without having begun digging out the bottom ones. i believe there are multiple levels!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Whobe ()
Date: February 21, 2010 06:51PM

Was his wife really that short or did he make her pose on her knees? Perfect height anyway.
Also, why did he leave her after getting everybody and everything else out? Strange.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: February 22, 2010 04:56AM

Hey I've been following this thread for a few weeks, decided to register and share my thoughts...

foreword: I'm only 22, obviously never alive during the Remeum golden age.... I just sorta stumbled upon this site/thread & became interested

1: It’s really cool hearing all the stories involving fuzz/pot/brew/good times. I wish my generation had a cool place to chill like that. Thanks for all the history of the structure itself and all the first hand accounts!

2: Based on aerial photos, the "obelisk" that remains is where the question mark is in the photo at the top of the second page. There is a larger than normal shadow, cast by a larger than normal object, i.e. the obelisk.

3: Is anyone intending on trying to reenter the Remeum via the “91” entrance (if it is/was an entrance)? Someone said somethin’ about trying to do that, if so, I’m game. I saw a previous post where someone mentioned that this should be kept quiet. I completely agree; I’ve told one other person.

4: When I go, I’m definitely gonna bring a six-pack to continue the tradition.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 22, 2010 08:13AM

First and foremost: as Alan already said, Hip, thanks and beyond for all your research. Just amazing stuff.

Second: I've heard from a few sources that people were too frightened to venture all the way back into the Crypts (or was it the cinderblock wall that was in the way?). So am I to believe that ALL the rooms and chambers in the incredibly instensive plans posted above WERE actually underground 30 years ago.

Holy. Shit.

I'd been intrigued by the Remeum before, but now that I have more of an idea of the sheer size/awesomeness of what was down there...(multiple chapels, sprial staircases, corridors, tombs, ALL with approximately 20 foot high ceilings!) Did anyone ever go all the way back to the Calvary Corridor? That must have been incredible! If so, we need pictures!

I was devastated before when I found out the Crypts were demolished, but now that I know that there were more than just 3 or 4 chambers down there I'm just speechless.

Really, of all the places to pick to get high...why didn't people just stick to their parents' basement?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bledbetter ()
Date: February 22, 2010 08:49AM

The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, of all the places to pick to get
> high...why didn't people just stick to their
> parents' basement?

Amen to that! There's no reason to destroy our past because of the irresponsibility of the present.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 22, 2010 12:59PM

GMU Hokie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scull,
>
> You might want to make contact with Brian Conley
> (see below). Last I heard he was operating out of
> the general district archives in Springfield, but
> perhaps someone in the Virginia Room at the City
> of Fairfax Regional Library
> (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/branches/vr/
> ) could give you his e-mail address.
>
> Brian Conley is the Assistant County Archivist
> for
> Fairfax County. He was the research archivist in
> the
> Virginia Room of the Fairfax County Public
> Library
> until June 2007. He is well-known in our
> community
> for his compilation of County cemetery records of
> early residents. He has been a great help to many
> members of our Society who have used the Virginia
> Room holdings for their own research.
> Brian has compiled three books of great interest
>
>
>
>
>
> The Sculler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GMU Hokie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The trustees of Pohick Church had to file a
> > > lawsuit to get the Mausoleum "Remeum"
> > demolished.
> > >
> > > The case file surely must exist.
> > >
> > > Has anyone reviewed it?
> >
> > Who was the lawsuit against? That would help
> in
> > the search, because they "negotiated" with
> Remey
> > (or was the lawsuit considered a negotiation?).
>
> > Was it the County?

Hokie, I'll probably stop by the actual site of the Crypts before I go to the Virginia Room (I'm itchin' to see the site once and for all when this snow melts). But when I do go to the VA Room, I'll be sure to ask for Mr. Conley.

Thanks for the tip.

Options: ReplyQuote
Brian Conley
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: February 22, 2010 03:55PM

Brian Conley no longer works in the Virginia Room, but surely someone there knows how to reach him.

Last I heard, he was working in the General District Court archives in Springfield off Backlick Road.

Why not stop by office of the Pohick Church itself and see what the folks there will tell you?




The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GMU Hokie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Scull,
> >
> > You might want to make contact with Brian
> Conley
> > (see below). Last I heard he was operating out
> of
> > the general district archives in Springfield,
> but
> > perhaps someone in the Virginia Room at the
> City
> > of Fairfax Regional Library
> >
> (http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/branches/vr/
>
> > ) could give you his e-mail address.
> >
> > Brian Conley is the Assistant County Archivist
> > for
> > Fairfax County. He was the research archivist
> in
> > the
> > Virginia Room of the Fairfax County Public
> > Library
> > until June 2007. He is well-known in our
> > community
> > for his compilation of County cemetery records
> of
> > early residents. He has been a great help to
> many
> > members of our Society who have used the
> Virginia
> > Room holdings for their own research.
> > Brian has compiled three books of great
> interest
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Sculler Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > GMU Hokie Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > The trustees of Pohick Church had to file a
> > > > lawsuit to get the Mausoleum "Remeum"
> > > demolished.
> > > >
> > > > The case file surely must exist.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone reviewed it?
> > >
> > > Who was the lawsuit against? That would help
> > in
> > > the search, because they "negotiated" with
> > Remey
> > > (or was the lawsuit considered a
> negotiation?).
> >
> > > Was it the County?
>
> Hokie, I'll probably stop by the actual site of
> the Crypts before I go to the Virginia Room (I'm
> itchin' to see the site once and for all when this
> snow melts). But when I do go to the VA Room,
> I'll be sure to ask for Mr. Conley.
>
> Thanks for the tip.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: February 22, 2010 05:24PM

The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Second: I've heard from a few sources that people
> were too frightened to venture all the way back
> into the Crypts (or was it the cinderblock wall
> that was in the way?). So am I to believe that
> ALL the rooms and chambers in the incredibly
> instensive plans posted above WERE actually
> underground 30 years ago.
>
> Holy. Shit.
>
> I'd been intrigued by the Remeum before, but now
> that I have more of an idea of the sheer
> size/awesomeness of what was down
> there...(multiple chapels, sprial staircases,
> corridors, tombs, ALL with approximately 20 foot
> high ceilings!) Did anyone ever go all the way
> back to the Calvary Corridor? That must have been
> incredible! If so, we need pictures!
>
> I was devastated before when I found out the
> Crypts were demolished, but now that I know that
> there were more than just 3 or 4 chambers down
> there I'm just speechless.
>
> Really, of all the places to pick to get
> high...why didn't people just stick to their
> parents' basement?

As I recall the areas of the crypts where you've seen the photos was the extent of what you could explore in the mid 70's after the 1973 demolition. Anyone else from back in the day correct me if you know otherwise. We've heard of underground chambers but the main area wasn't all that big.

In the mid 70's nobody was vandalizing anything down there. I never saw anyone doing it nor the aftermath of vandalism. People were exploring, partying and having fun. You'd rather party in your parent's basement???

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 22, 2010 06:29PM

Regarding the General Plan, IMO what was actually built is what's on the first page and about half of the second page. I think all pictures that have been posted of the inside are of the Entrance Chamber. I remember a separate room in the back right which looks like would have been the Mason Chapel. I don't remember a room on the back left which would have been the Remey Chapel. I don't think anything to the right of the Mason and Remey Chapels was built.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 07:40PM by Hip.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 22, 2010 06:41PM

Here's the picture and article from the Washington Star that talks about the JDs that broke into the Remeum back in 1956. Although the quality of the picture is not very good it's the only picture I've seen that shows what the outside looked like before it was destroyed. Note the arrow on the right side of the picture that shows the hole they made. From the outside the building looks a lot wider than I remember it being on the inside.
Attachments:
WashStar1.jpg
WashStar2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 22, 2010 06:51PM

Here's a Washington Star article from 1973. Sounds like they ran this story right before the church decided to destroy the Remeum. Note the first lines on the top of page 2 that talk about lighting underground portions.
Attachments:
Article P1.jpg
Article P2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Alan Rogers ()
Date: February 22, 2010 07:53PM

I agree with Hip. The only underground parts of the Crypt that were completed; Entrance Chamber, Remey Chapel, Mason Chapel, and the two Tombs beside the Chapels. I remember the cinderblock walls that Jimbo refers too; one was where the entrance to the large storage room would have been and the other was where the entrance to the Rotunda would have been. Thanks again for the pictures, Hip's research, and first-hand accounts. It has been interesting to learn some of Remey,s history and plans.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: February 22, 2010 07:54PM

HIP - Thanks for all the great research!!! I know it's appreciated by all and the crypts legend isn't fading away with those of us who actually explored it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Spacy ()
Date: February 22, 2010 09:13PM

This has been the best thread on this web site, ever! Thanks to all the people who contributed!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: graymoose1 ()
Date: February 22, 2010 10:07PM

kudos to all

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: eesh ()
Date: February 22, 2010 10:10PM

Spacy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This has been the best thread on this web site,
> ever! Thanks to all the people who contributed!


Definitely. I didn't think urbex was possible in Fairfax, hopefully it will expand to other places in the county as well.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 23, 2010 07:51AM

Hokie, as tempting as it is to ask someone at Pohick Church about the Crypts, I don't think it's a good idea. As the latest article that Hip posted (and, thank you again for your hard work and research!), Pohick Church has been dealing with the problems of vandalism for nearly 45 years, so I don't think they'll want to talk about it nor will they be excited about someone being interested in it (despite the innocent intentions).

CBLB78, I got a little excited yesterday when I was under the impression that all of the above plans/drawings were constructed and completed underground, then only to be destroyed because the Church was fed up with the vandalism. Now knowing that it was in fact only 4 or 5 rooms down there and not the incredible vision that Remey had originally plannedd, I'm not AS crushed as I would have been now that I know it's gone.
However, seeing as I'm a complete straight-edge, the appeal of going down there for anything beyond exploration doesn't make much sense to me. I understand having a good time, and that times were VERY different back then (MUCH cooler in alot of ways), but I just think it sucks that a few bad apples had to potentially ruin it for everyone. But when kids stumble upon something as cool as the Crypts that's completely secluded and out of site from the authorities and their parents, I can see how things could get out of hand. But why trash it?

But can you imagine if Remey had completed the Remeum as he'd planned and it was still there today, safe from the elements and corrosion (and NUCS!)? What if that planning committee had been able to make it an historical landmark and it was completely safe from urban development?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: February 23, 2010 09:07AM

My point is only that the vandalism problem was from before the 1973 demolition. I think you can blame the eventual demolition on those from back in the 50's and 60's. I don't think we've heard from anyone that was there before the demo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: February 23, 2010 10:00AM

Sculler,

I have been to the church and asked them about the crypts, this was sometime in the late 1990's. They didn't have a lot of info but they were very friendly and told me and a friend that the crypts had been sealed and there was no entrance anymore. We actually left the church and walked straight through the woods to were the crypt used to be and no one bothered us or asked us to leave. I imagine that they don't know much about them because the people who took care of the church when the crypts were still open no longer work there and the new people only have stories that have been passed down by former employees. I don't think you would bring any unwanted attention to the site if you spoke with them, although I'm not sure you would gain anything from it either.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Zoomer ()
Date: February 23, 2010 11:10AM

It would be very interesting to me if someone knew of any members of the Pagens from the 60's or early 70's and could get their take on the Crypts. I really think it was a huge party place for them and they were the ones that mostly destroyed the place in wild drunken, acid laced parties from that time. I've heard many very bad stories of some of the bad things that happened there over the years and the Pagens were always in the center of it. When I first started going there long ago, the first thing we checked for was to make sure no motorcycles were parked close by...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 23, 2010 11:23AM

Somebody earlier in the thread (I'm not gonna even begin to look for it) had said that they too had taken a tour of the church, and had inquired about the Crypts. That had something like the tour guides were very quick to say that it was something they didn't like to discuss and quickly moved on with the tour. Having heard that, plus reading the articles as to what the church had been through in the past with vandals, I ASSUMED (my mistake) that if they got wind of someone being interested in the Crypts once again they'd be quick to put a stop to it.
But hearing what you said gives me alot of hope. I guess they figure that there's not a whole helluvalot to see back there, so there's no reason to worry about it anymore.
I am looking forward to getting out there once all this crap melts, to just get an idea of where it once was and what it may have looked like. Maybe get an idea of just HOW MUCH demo they did, and what could still be underground.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 23, 2010 11:31AM

Zoomer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be very interesting to me if someone knew
> of any members of the Pagens from the 60's or
> early 70's and could get their take on the Crypts.
> I really think it was a huge party place for them
> and they were the ones that mostly destroyed the
> place in wild drunken, acid laced parties from
> that time. I've heard many very bad stories of
> some of the bad things that happened there over
> the years and the Pagens were always in the center
> of it. When I first started going there long ago,
> the first thing we checked for was to make sure no
> motorcycles were parked close by...

Yeah. If anyone knows any of the original members of that classy group of people, let 'em know, "Thanks a-fuckin'-lot" and "The bitch didn't fall off your bike, she was never on it in the first place since there's nowhere else to sit thanks to your fat ass!"

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Alan Rogers ()
Date: February 23, 2010 07:11PM

Again thanks to all. When I visited the Crypt in the late 70's I thought it was impressive then, even with the dirt bulldozed in front of the entrance and courtyard walls. I never realized who built it until right before this thread was started and even then you could not find much information on it. Now when you Goggle Remeum this Fairfax Underground thread is there and it is updated when this thread is updated.I believe the Pagans/Hells Angels rumble in the early 80's was the final nail in the coffin (no pun intended) for the Crypt. It has been nice meeting you Hip, Jimbo, CBLB78, and The Sculler.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 23, 2010 07:54PM

I used Photoshop to put the HistoricArials photo next to Remey's general plan to show the sections that were built. I wish the airplane and copyright text weren't there.
Attachments:
Combined.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: February 23, 2010 10:27PM

Alan Rogers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again thanks to all. When I visited the Crypt in
> the late 70's I thought it was impressive then,
> even with the dirt bulldozed in front of the
> entrance and courtyard walls. I never realized who
> built it until right before this thread was
> started and even then you could not find much
> information on it. Now when you Goggle Remeum this
> Fairfax Underground thread is there and it is
> updated when this thread is updated.I believe the
> Pagans/Hells Angels rumble in the early 80's was
> the final nail in the coffin (no pun intended) for
> the Crypt. It has been nice meeting you Hip,
> Jimbo, CBLB78, and The Sculler.

We're in the same boat. I never knew the actual history back in the day and, later, the crypts were just a memory without any details. I'm sure many who I told my stories to probably didn't believe me. The various pictures of my contemporarys exploring brought a rush of memories. I never thought to take a camera there but I'm glad somebody did. Hip's research and articles are awesome. I'm not sure how you found them.

Now I'd like to hear more about the motorcycle gangs and pre-demolition stories of the 60's and early 70's.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 24, 2010 07:02AM

Alan Rogers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again thanks to all. When I visited the Crypt in
> the late 70's I thought it was impressive then,
> even with the dirt bulldozed in front of the
> entrance and courtyard walls. I never realized who
> built it until right before this thread was
> started and even then you could not find much
> information on it. Now when you Goggle Remeum this
> Fairfax Underground thread is there and it is
> updated when this thread is updated.I believe the
> Pagans/Hells Angels rumble in the early 80's was
> the final nail in the coffin (no pun intended) for
> the Crypt. It has been nice meeting you Hip,
> Jimbo, CBLB78, and The Sculler.

Likewise, without a doubt. I've only been in the area since 1998. If you hadn't started this thread, and the incredible contributions of everyone else had not been posted, I would've NEVER known about this treasure in Fairfax's history.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 24, 2010 08:06AM

Maybe I'm not searching correctly, but the only thing I find on the Pagans/Hells Angels in Lorton when I Google is THIS THREAD! (Hehe) I found another article about the Pagans dumping 2 bodies of a rival gang out near Tysons Corner in the 70's, but that's it.

I don't know if the fight between the Hells Angels and the Pagans at the Crypts was ever written up in the papers. We may have to rely on the memories of posters, if anyone has 'em.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: February 24, 2010 09:08AM

I don't remember hearing about a fight at the crypts, maybe it was just in this area and not actually at the crypts. I do remember that across the street from Marumsco Plaza on Rt 1 in Woodbridge there used to be an old abandoned house and the Pagan's used it to party and hang out in it. There were always motorcycles parked outside and remnants of bonfires in the yard. It was destroyed years ago and replaced with a bank.

From looking at the historic aerials pic next to the plans I would say the mound of dirt out in the woods is about the size and length of the Cruciform Enclosure. If the Inner Atrium area was built it would seem very possible that it is still intact, they probably destroyed the main entrance and bulldozed a ton of dirt over it but since there was no second entrance why waste the time and money to destroy an area that no one could get to.

I feel like we are writing our own episode of Cities of the Underworld, now if we could just find a way to get down there and see what, if anything, is left.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 24, 2010 09:17AM

I like your style.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: February 25, 2010 10:55PM

In all of our visits to the Crypts, we never saw any evidence of the Pagan motorcycle club. Once, we encountered a guy leaving the Crypt entrance with a shotgun. He was our age or younger. We just sort of nodded at each other and continued inside, hoping not to find freshly murdered people.

On several occasions we heard the tell-tale sound of small rocks rolling down the rubble pile and hitting the floor of the Crypt hall. That meant that someone was on the mound outside the entrance or on their way in...

1. Once I crept to the top of the mount and saw the pant legs of a Virginia State Trooper. I was dismayed and slithered back to deliver the news to my friends. We waited down there without lights or noise for about 45 minutes until the trooper left. That was a little eerie.

2. While roaming around down there one night, we heard a lot of rocks falling and the sound of someone sliding down the rubble pile. We hid behind statues because we thought that this was someone in a hurry. When the person arrived, he was clearly scared shitless. He was latino and was asking "Hey man! Is it cool!? Is it cool!?" One of my buddies decided to mess with his mind. He had a grey Radio Shack flashlight with about a half-dozen D-cells in it. He stepped out from behind the statue and shouted something like "Hail Azmodeus!! King of evil!!! Who will be the sacrifice!!?" We all beamed on him and he screamed. It turned out he had his girlfriend with him and he had twisted his ankle. We let him know that we were just kidding and not to worry. Shortly thereafter, about 6 or so of his friends came down and proceeded to get really drunk and make a huge amount of noise. We left.

3. One of our friends was a total waste-of-skin druggie who wanted to go to the Crypts. On the way there he drank some beers and I think he took some of his mother's quaaludes. We literally carried him into the crypts and put him in the same sarcophagus seen in the earlier page of this blog (the one with our class valedictorian in it). He woke up about an hour later, sat up and said something like, "Whoa! Very cool!" It didn't seem to phase him one bit. I wonder where he is now?

It is a shame that there is nothing left of the place now. Where are today's youth going to go for wholesome fun and adventure?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 26, 2010 07:12AM

I glad there was a better sense of community back then. If the Crypts were still around today I'd be VERY cautious about worming down that hole and taking a chance on the crazy fuckers that are walking the streets today!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 26, 2010 06:15PM

Jimbo,
Regarding the pictures you've posted, can you tell us what year they were taken?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: February 27, 2010 12:04AM

I was still in highschool, so I'd say between 1978-1980. I was using one of those 110 instamatics.That's why they are so grainy when you scan them and enlarge them.

Here is a picture of me on one of the body slabs in the Crypt. I would wear a head lamp to keep my hands free.It looked dorky but it was very functional.
Attachments:
crypt967.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: February 27, 2010 11:23AM

I agree this is the best post ever on FFX underground. The thread about who's buried in front of Pan Am shopping center would be second.

But I love historical stuff about our county. Thanks everyone for the historical research on this.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: February 27, 2010 01:55PM

When I went there in 1979-1982 we used to take Pohick Road to Route 1 and park at a dumpy a little store. I think it was called the Pohick Country or General Store which was on the other side of Route 1 from the Crypts. It's not there anymore but I haven't heard this store mentioned by anyone on this thread. Just wondering if anyone else remembers the store or where they used to park when visiting the Crypts. I know it's been 30+ years and the area around the Crypts has changed.

Also, on this thread I've learned that Remey called his mausoleum "the Remeum". I think the most popular name we had for the place was "the Crypts" followed by "the Pohick Crypts". I'm interested in how other people referred to the place. We never called it the Remeum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2010 07:08PM by Hip.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: chili today, hot tamale ()
Date: February 27, 2010 04:36PM

I've been following this thread too, really interesting thanks guys.


Alan Rogers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Hip. The only underground parts of
> the Crypt that were completed; Entrance Chamber,
> Remey Chapel, Mason Chapel, and the two Tombs
> beside the Chapels. I remember the cinderblock
> walls that Jimbo refers too; one was where the
> entrance to the large storage room would have been
> and the other was where the entrance to the
> Rotunda would have been. Thanks again for the
> pictures, Hip's research, and first-hand accounts.
> It has been interesting to learn some of Remey,s
> history and plans.


So looking at the map you guys are saying the entrance chamber, two chapels and the two side by site tombs were there and then there was a concrete wall which would have led to the rotunda. I may have missed it but could the rest of the underground tomb have existed, going back to the other tombs, chapels, etc? Like maybe it was sealed off earlier so that if the entrance chamber was broken into it would still prevent people from going any deeper into the tomb?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Whobe ()
Date: February 27, 2010 08:24PM

Wasn't there a boarded up building attached to that old store? I used to stop there once in a while when I worked near there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: February 28, 2010 12:48AM

I think the fact that after so many have posted here without a mention of anything beyond the first five rooms indicates that it's likely that's all there is.

So, Sculler, what's the status of the plans to slip through the vents to try to get down there again? :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2010 12:52AM by Kardinal.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: February 28, 2010 07:44PM

The "91" picture and the newspaper picture from 1956 (with the juvenile delinquents) look to me like they are the same entrance (the 91 picture obviously after the first attempt to cover the Remeum). If so, where is that entrance on the blueprints? Is the "91" entrance the main entrance on the blueprints? Also, if that is the case, which wall is portrayed in the first picture of this thread?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: February 28, 2010 11:06PM

I graduated from Lake Braddock in 1980. What school did you go to, Hip?

I also remember parking at that store. When I read that post I suddenly remembered that we parked by that run down place and we would walk along the same side of the road (in the same direction as the traffic) before cutting right to go down to the crypts. The more direct path was reserved for summer, when the leaves on the trees would block Stumpy's view and quiet things a bit. The indirect path was through the woods and we would come up to the rear of the Crypt. We reserved that for winter since the lack of foliage left us exposed.

I also remember that there were marble plaques with bas relief carvings set into the outside walls. They depicted the freeing of the slaves and some other military scenes. Inside the crypt there was another marble plaque of a Navy ship. I don't remember the name of the ship. I Googled "USS Remey" and I found a US Destroyer by that name but it was named after a different Remey (George C Remey rather than Charles Remey of the Crypts).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 01, 2010 07:47AM

Kardinal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the fact that after so many have posted
> here without a mention of anything beyond the
> first five rooms indicates that it's likely that's
> all there is.
>
> So, Sculler, what's the status of the plans to
> slip through the vents to try to get down there
> again? :)

Well, with Old Man Winter pretty much out of the picture, I'm thinking this weekend looks promising. With the warmer temperatures throughout this week I'm thinking most of the snow will be gone, yet it'll still be too cold for ticks (I hate those little bastards!). I don't have access to any kind of video camera, so I plan to arm myself with a flashlight to take a look down the vents if I can and a rope with something tied to the end to try and get an idea of how far down they go. I'm pretty excited about finally seeing the site, and hopefully no one from the church will be too concerned about me being there, as was discussed earlier. As I've said before, I don't have a digital camera, but I will let you know my take on what I find.

Hip, according to what you said in the early days of this thread, if I'm standing in front of the tower and turn to my right I would be looking at where the entrance would have been. However, using all the information you've posted since then (as well as looking at Bing's bird's eye view and Historicaerials), it looks as if the tower was at the very southeastern end of the Cruciforn Enclosure (in front of the bench), therefore I would need to turn 180 degrees and walk about 100-150 feet to find myself at what was the entrance to the Crypts. What are your thoughts on this, do I have it right?

Something else I found interesting while comparing and contrasting pictures of the present and past, if you look at the first picture of the entrance that was posted on this thread (the "91 picture") and then compare it to the picture from the 1956 break-in, you really get an idea of just how much dirt that they threw on top of this thing. Take a look at the guy from 1956 inspecting the hole in the wall and then look at the "91 picture", and you'll see that it's more than just a few feet of dirt that we're dealing with.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mrs. Remeys ghost ()
Date: March 01, 2010 05:21PM

I'll be waiting.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 01, 2010 05:23PM

Yo Sculler: you agree that the "91" picture is the same as the 1956JD (juvenile delinquent) picture? If that is the case, I was thinking the same thing about the amount of digging; hence, why we need to be 100% sure of the entrance site before any possible excavation.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 01, 2010 07:04PM

I think the store across from the Church and Tomb ended up being Bozelli's. GREAT subs.

A friend of mine has been following this thread. He has pics similar to those posted. His brother-in-law used to go back in there in the late 60s/early 70. and said they blocked the main part off. I believe the quote was that it, "used to back all the way under Route 1." I don't think that is quite true, but I think there is more to it than is shown in most of the pics.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Fuzz, The ()
Date: March 01, 2010 07:33PM

Mrs. Remeys ghost Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll be waiting.

Me too

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Huntington ()
Date: March 01, 2010 10:57PM

This is one of the most interesting topics I have ever followed. I never heard of it before FFXU, but love what has been "dug up". I was raised in the area but am/ was too young to have known about this before now. When i was a teenager, the place at Rt 1 and Pohick had an OLD building that was, at the time (early 90's) an "antique store/ flea shop". Dump of a place, but looking back what a different time, those old farmhouses and country buildings that I barely remember. On the Pagan note, would they have been patrons of Hillbilly Heaven or Bar- J's? I used to date a guy that lived off Rt. 1 and he worked at Booth Feeds (on Rt. 1) and we'd get food at Bar J's (the one on Rt. 1, not in the shopping center)

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Hillbilly Heaven
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: March 02, 2010 06:37AM

The guy who owned Hillbilly Heaven was the father-in-law of Dan Ackroyd.

I don't know if he is still alive.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 02, 2010 07:56AM

DiamondD-REK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yo Sculler: you agree that the "91" picture is the
> same as the 1956JD (juvenile delinquent) picture?
> If that is the case, I was thinking the same
> thing about the amount of digging; hence, why we
> need to be 100% sure of the entrance site before
> any possible excavation.

I am 99.9999999999999999999999% sure that those are the same entrances. I apologize that I'm not computer-savy enough to paste the two images beside eachother, but if you take a look at the 2 sculptures above the entrance-way you'll see that they're identical. Also, the dimentions match up as well.

From what others have posted, what had once been the location of the entrance is now a large mound of dirt, which I'm thinking should be somewhat easy to spot in the middle of the woods.

So, taking into account that you've got the additional mound of dirt above ground, then the approximate 8-10 feet down to the TOP of the entrance, we're talking about ALOT of digging. Honestly, the time and manpower it would take to dig down to it is very possible, but I don't see how it's do-able without attracting some attention. Short of some serious ninja-style exacavation, someone's gonna catch wind of what you're doing out there. I plan on taking a look around and trying to get a solid location of the entrance, but I don't plan on doing any digging on my first trip out there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 02, 2010 08:57AM

I remember that store at the corner of Rt 1 and Pohick Rd, it was gone before I ever knew about the crypts. When I visited in the early 90's we would park in the church parking lot and walk on the path around the graveyard behind the church and then just make our way through the woods to the site. We really didn't know if we had found the crypts or not since all the stories we had heard from our friends older sister formed a picture that did not include a large mound of dirt covering everything. I had forgotten all about the crypts for a couple of years and then one day remembered that we never figured out if what we found in the woods was the Remeum. I started searching for info and that's when I realized that we had indeeed found them but that we never found a way in. I would love to be able to get in there just once and take a look around, maybe that will happen some day soon.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: gps ()
Date: March 02, 2010 09:12AM

get the gps coordinates

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 01:17PM

from 1960:
Attachments:
remey.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 02, 2010 02:07PM

Holy shit, Dude! That picture's badass! Screw Historicaerials! Awesome find, thanks a ton!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 02, 2010 06:21PM

can anyone copy the historial aerial shot from '62 and, using paint/another program put to a big red circle on the entrance? 1psatmar6 That'd be great for me, since the varying accounts of the place on this thread leave me in a quandary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 02, 2010 06:28PM

I didn't see that this thread had moved on to a THIRD(!) page so i hadn't seen sculler's reply or the new photo. With that being said...

1: Can anyone identify on the most recent picture where the entrance is?
2: I'll be there this saturday around 1 (sunny, 51 degrees!)
3: Remeum pronunciation... is that rem-e-um or ree-mi-um?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 07:00PM

I'm going to try to pick some points tonight and make a KMZ. I'll try to post that and then it will be referenced in Google Earth. That is if I can type quiet enough to not awake the baby...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: March 02, 2010 08:51PM

jgr007, great picture! Are there any other years available? Can you post any of the other pictures you mentioned?

I agree that the "91" picture is the same as the 1956JD picture. I marked where I think the entrance ("91") was with a 1 and where I think the brick monument is with a 2.
Attachments:
remey copy.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 09:14PM

Here's a screen grab in Google Earth. I'm trying to get a KMZ, but I'm not quite figuring it out yet.

I'll probably just post a zip file with instructions on how to use.

The pics I mentioned are not mine, but I think my friend may scan and send.
Attachments:
remey_ge.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 09:21PM

OK. Let's see if this works:

1. Download attached zip file.
2. Unzip on your computer somewhere.
3. Open doc.kml with Google Earth and hopefully you'll be able to explore

It's not registered quite right, but it should be close enough to get an idea of where it was plus pull coordinates.

I also want to tie down the plan images to the image from 60 just for fun to see what that looks like. Maybe tomorrow...
Attachments:
60warp.zip

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 03, 2010 07:09AM

Hip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jgr007, great picture! Are there any other years
> available? Can you post any of the other pictures
> you mentioned?
>
> I agree that the "91" picture is the same as the
> 1956JD picture. I marked where I think the
> entrance ("91") was with a 1 and where I think the
> brick monument is with a 2.

Hip, I agree with you 100% on #1 being the entrance, but I think that the brick monument (you mean the tower, right?) is located at the "G????R Memorial" at the exact opposite end of the complex in front of the bench, as I'm using the plans you posted as a reference.

If you look at jgr007's picture, you'll see that long shadow cast by the sun at the "G????R Memorial" (I can't read the handwriting on the plans), I believe that is the existing brick memorial/tower. Do you think that that is where #2 should be?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"jr","JR/Gravis/RV",(who ever you are),

Please, son, do us all a favor and put down the tube of modeling glue and get back to your homework.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 03, 2010 10:37AM

Another from 1960 from an oblique angle.
Attachments:
remey2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 03, 2010 11:24AM

jgr007, Bravo, once again.

Thanks to your findings, I'm willing to bet money that the two structures at the left end of the complex that are positioned over the Crypt itself are the vents that Hip posted pictures of back on page 1 of this thread. Knowing now that there were only about 4 chambers, and also knowing where the entrance is according to the pictures, those should be vents that were directly over the Crypts.

(I might be a little behind in my epiphanies, and if I'm stating the obvious I apologize. But I'm more of a visual person.)

At least now I know where the two ends of the entire complex can be found!
So, from what I can figure, if we want to find the location of what was once the entrance we'd simply need to do the following:

-Locate the vents (not difficult since we know what they look like)

-While standing at the vents, turn and face South/Southeast and look for the tower/brick memorial (shouldn't be hard from that distance, given the size/height and no leaves on the trees)

-With your back to the most Southern vent, walk approximately 45 feet straight torward the tower/brick memorial. (I got the distance from the "Survey Tools" on Historicaerials while viewing the 1962 image. On that image, the vents are merely white smugges, back you can make them out.)

And that should be the location of the entrance, about 15 feet straight down.
Then again, all my theories are based on the fact that I've never been there. But on the other hand, I VERY confident in the intel. that I'm using (thanks to all!)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: March 03, 2010 06:37PM

Sculler,
I'm having a hard time reconciling my memories of the layout, the outside pictures on page 1, Remey's general plan, and the overhead pictures.

First, it looks like there's nothing behind the entrance marked with a 1 on a previous posting. But there's where the actual crypt was.

Second, the tower was not directly in front of the Crypt. Standing in front of the Crypt and looking away from Route 1, the brick tower/monument was not directly in front, it was off to the right. That's what I remember and why I marked it the way I did on the photo. I also based it on Remey's plan but the pictures are hard to deny.

Third, where is the structure shown in the first picture on page 1? I don't see how that fits into the overhead picture.

In the overhead picture it looks like there is still construction going on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2010 07:08PM by Hip.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Whobe ()
Date: March 03, 2010 08:11PM

Those 1960 pictures are a little confusing. Is that with the roof on the cryps? Then what is with the wall shadows all around on top? Was there a parapet wall all around it?
The brick tower does look like where you're saying you remember Hip, there's a tall shadow to the front right of the entrance.
And at the very opposite end, is that the tall white oblesik that is still standing at the end of the dirt mound? If so, wow, that thing must be buried at least 20 ft. and still standing maybe 40-50 ft. above the dirt now. I do remember seeing that still standing when I went in the 80's.
So, the oblesik and the vents are still standing and the other guy says it was completely caved in? I would think if they destroyed it they would have went ahead and destroyed these structures at the same time.
Still seems like all they did was bury the whole thing without tearing it down?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 04, 2010 01:53AM

sculler: I was having dinner this evening with a friend (the only person to whom i've mentioned the crypts). We had printouts of the pictures from this thread, and eventually reached some conclusions, most of them align with yours.

To all:

(When I refer to "Remey west" or "Rwest", I am referencing a compass rose if it were to be placed on the blueprints. For instance, the westernmost portion of the Remeum would be the circular enclosure (disregarding the bench)...See Hip's post from Feb. 23, at 7:54pm, with the photoshopped rendering of the planned Remeum.)

1. Based on the photos, the shadow cast by the structure in the circular enclosure on Rwest indicates that that is the still standing spire/obelisk. On the blueprints, that is labelled "GCR/MJMR memorial". Also, on the spire close up pictures from 1/18/10 from Jimbo, you see the plaques have the names George Collier Remey and Mary Josephine Mason Remey. Intials? Definitely. That is the still standing spire.

2. The first in a series of five photos from Hip's post on 2/20/10 at 10:01pm shows a man standing near a recessed wall with the name William Butler Remey engraved on the top of the wall. That looks to me like part of the Rnorthern wall of the cruciform enclosure. Again, blueprint initials match up: "WBR"

3. I agree that the (currently) still standing air vents are those located on Reast, covering the two unmarked squares in the blueprints (assuming the five-room theory). Rwesternmost vent is above the small space directly Reast of the entrance chamber; the second vent is located in the small space that is Rwest of the "planned" rotunda. (I hope that everyone understands my R-direction method, and can reference the planned Remeum)

4. If is true that the air vents and the spire are in line, and that the vents associate with the planned spaces in the blueprints, trianguling the position of the entrance (91 photo/1956JD) should be easy, especially if we are certain the vents are above the rooms in (3).

5. Assuming that all of the above information is true, it seems we do have a location of the entrance; hence, we have a digging point.

(By the way, this is all under the assumption that the "Remeum is still there with a shitload of dirt on top" theory... which I honestly believe is true)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:09AM

Hip,
You have in indeed actually been to the site before and after it's demise, therefore I believe you over my own theories based on what I've seen from photos.

I was just so sure that the long, thin shadow cast in the photo was that of the obelisk at Rwest (that does help, Diamond). If you say that I'm incorrect and that it is not in line with the two vents above the Crypts, then I'll believe you as you have first hand knowledge of this. Seeing as it's pretty tall, and it's a quality picture, I just don't see it off to the right, where your #2 is.
Based on the layout of everything above ground (as well as alot of the stuff underground that was never constructed), Remey seemed to be a big fan of symmetry. Therefore it made sense to me that a grand structure such as the obelisk would be at the top end of the CROSS (again, with the symmetry).
Even if the obelisk is off to the right when you have your back to the Rwesternmost vent, I'm still convinced that the vents are in line with the length of the entrace chamber. So if you walk the 45 feet from that point, I still think you'll be standing on top of the entrance. Do you agree with my theory about the vents being in line with the length of the entrance chamber?

I'm also glad that you brought up the point about the picture on page 1 (I assume you're talking about the VERY FIRST image on this thread, posted by Cary on Dec. 18 at 8:47, right?). If so, I'm assuming that that large wall structure is actually what you labelled as #1 in your photo. Therefore, I'm thinking that the entrance to the Crypts with the lions in front is just behind that.

Whobe,
I agree whole-heartedly that if someone is going to demolish an underground chamber, they most likely wouldn't bother to leave the ceiling and vents. It wouldn't make much sense....and it gives me hope.
That's why I'm planning on packing a flashlight and some rope with something tied to the end of it. I'm hoping they didn't get too creative with the vent shafts, and that they just go straight down, allowing me to get an idea of the kind of depth we're dealing with.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:55AM

The obelisk is in the center of the round part at the very southern end of the crypt. Look at the pics below. One is from the current Google Earth, the other form the USGS 1960 photo. The shadows match.

I think the vents, entrance and obelisk are in a straight line. It should be about 320 feet from the vent closest to the obelisk to the obelisk. The entrance should be about 50 feet from that obelisk along the line.

If you look at the Google Earth zip I posted above you should be able to do some measurements and get approximate coordinates. Unfortunately the GE overlay is not well registered (there is about a 30 foot different in the positions of the obelisk between the overlay and the current Google Earth image).
Attachments:
obelisk_googleearth_annotated.jpg
obelisk_usgs_annoted.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:57AM

Ooops...the entrance should be about 50 feet from the vent nearest the obelisk along the line between the obelisk and vents. My message above is unclear.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: kdub ()
Date: March 04, 2010 09:22AM

I've been doing some research on the early days of the Pagans and the story about the Pagans and Hells Angels rumbling at the tombs probably isn't true. The Pagans may have partied there, but the Hells Angels didn't arrive in the area until the nineties. It may have been Fates Assembly or an indie gang. The Pagans definitely had a presence in the Lorton area at the time. I'm doing some digging to see if I can find anything.

http://ourredneckpast.blogspot.com/

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 04, 2010 10:51AM

jgr007, thanks for the great compare/contrast with the labels. It just makes so much more sense that everything is in line down the center of the cross, as Remey seemed like he was so hung up on symmetry on all the plans that have been posted.

I'm really looking forward to actually getting out there and standing in the middle of everything.

kdub, an interesting look into the Redneckedness of our area.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:46PM

I tied down the 1960 image better to Google Earth and then tied down two of the plan images from underground just for grins. I'll post all three zips shortly.
Attachments:
Screenshot-2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:49PM

Bad image above. Hopefully this one works...
Attachments:
Screenshot-2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 09:43PM

Here's a better grab of the 1960 image cut out plus the under ground portion from the plans. I'll post the zips with kmls in a bit.
Attachments:
Screenshot-3.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 09:46PM

Here are zips with the two KMLs from above. Let me know if anyone wants anything else...
Attachments:
layout31-warp-trim.zip
remey-crop-warp-trim.zip

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 05, 2010 06:12AM

Triangulate the postions of the supposed air vents (Reast) from the photo from jgr007's 1:17 March 2, 2010 post and compare the with the blueprints. The vents are above the rooms I've labelled in the picture.

I've never been to the site first hand, but this is what I've gathered from the various accounts/archives/photos posted on the thread. The MS Paint picture gives my best guess on the location of different structures.

Due to varying accounts of the underground structure, the label "COMPLETED UNDERGROUND AREAS" only includes what the five-room thoery entails: Entrance Chamber, Remey Chapel, Mason Chapel and two rooms of tombs.

Tell me if this is generally correct.
Attachments:
blues1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 05, 2010 06:18AM

ahh shit, looking back on the pictures of the inside.. the underground might have been....
Attachments:
blues1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 05, 2010 07:49AM

Once again, you guys have outdone yourselves. Not only are the images a huge help in appreciating the shear size of what was (and could've been) the Remeum, but they'll also be of great help when people go out to the site and need their bearings.

At some point this weekend, I plan on finally going to the site first hand. First thing Monday morning I'll let you know the results of the primative "depth test" that I have in mind for the vents. Depending on how sucessful it is/how the shafts of the vents were constructed/deteriation of the vents over the years, we'll hopefully have an idea of not only whether or not the interior of the chambers were filled in/demolished, but also how far down they are. And of course I also plan on testing our theories of the alignment of the obelisk and vents, as well as the approximate location and remenants of the entrance site.

I'll give you as many details as I can from what I see, but as I've said before I don't have any sort of digital camera, so sadly I won't be able to provide you with any pictures. But I will give you all the details I can.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Woodland Res ()
Date: March 05, 2010 11:25AM

Sculler, you NEED to buy a throwaway camera at least then...and I will pay to have them uploaded at the store if need be haha. This thread has gotten me so interested, I NEED to see pictures!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 05, 2010 12:15PM

That is a good suggestion. However, once I got the throw away camera, I'd have no idea on how to put the pictures I'd have taken on the site. As much fun as this thread has been, it has been frustrating not being able to contribute/scan images like everyone else because I'm really not that good with computers.
I'll tell you what, if I see anything new that has not already been posted (I think Hip has cornered the market on anything existing out there that's worth taking a picture of) I will research getting images of what I see posted on this thread.
As far as current pictures of the site are concerned, the only image we really don't have is the location of the entrance (with the exception of the picture that Hip posted on Jan. 20 at 7:51, but from his description I don't think that's the definate location, merely the general direction). I will provide the best details I can on the description of the entrance on Monday, as well as anything else I see out there.
Speaking of "anything else I see out there", while zooming in on Google satellite images of the area, there looks to be piles of brick/rubble to the "Remeyeast". I'll look this weekend first hand to see if that's the case.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 05, 2010 01:07PM

Here are the locations of the two entrances. The "91" entrance is inside the courtyard area. That is the entrance to underground. The other entrance is the entrance to the courtyard.

Start at the vent closest to the obelisk. Go about 50 feet towards the obelisk and the "91" should be there.
Attachments:
blues1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 05, 2010 01:46PM

I have to say, that is indeed THE LAYOUT. That's about as clear as it's gonna get.

I can't remember how far back in the thread it was, but I believe a couple people that had been to the Crypts back in the day have said that what was the "91" entrance is now a large mound of dirt. So, knowing the exact direction I need to go once I'm at the "Remeywesternest" vent, I'm hoping the large mound will still be there and also be pretty easy to spot.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Whobe ()
Date: March 05, 2010 09:15PM

Now it's making more sense. I didn't realize the picture from the 60's only showed an above ground part? Maybe that's what they tore down and only piled dirt on the rest?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 05, 2010 09:23PM

Excellent. I'll have pics and an story monday as well.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 06, 2010 03:28PM

Screw Monday, I couldn't wait.

I just got back from the site, and I guess I'll start from the beginning...

The best way to get there is to park in the church parking lot, and then walk to the field Southeast of the cemetary. At the edge of the field you'll find some kind of pellet gun target course, with posts labelled 1 and 2 at the edge of it. Walk between these two posts into the woods, and walk up the edge of the 40 foot hill.
So now that you're at the top of the "plateau", if you look to your left you'll find the obelisk. What I found interesting about the obelisk is that the remenants of the brick semi-circle that surrounded it are still there, and you get an idea of the original "level" that the site had due to the fact that you can see the concrete pad the obelisk was mounted on through the leaves on the ground.
Walking Remeyeast, in the direction of the vents, I had to walk up another 6 feet to the very top of the "plateua". This additional 6 feet must be the work of the demo-team back in the early 80's. The top of the plateau is grassy, with plenty of nasty, red thorn bushes, but they were still matted to the ground thanks to all the recent snow.
I continued walking, and located the vents. The good news - our theory of the vents being in line with the obelisk are correct. The bad news - my "depth experiment" that I conducted on the vents by lowering a 5lb weight down all 3 flu pipes proved that they are all stopped up with brick shards and beer cans. I was only able to conduct the experiment on the Remeyeasternest vent, as the other was still too much in tact and I couldn't reach the flu-pipes (see Hip's earliest photos of the vents to see the hole in the side of the one I was at.)
A little dissappointed, I walked Remeywest from the vents approximately 40 feet in search of where the entrance location had been.

This is where it got interesting.

SOMEONE'S BEEN VERY BUSY...

Once I got about 40 feet from the vent, still in line with the obelisk, I found a hole. A BIG hole. This thing was about 4 feet in diameter, and 8 to 9 feet deep. The weird part: all the dirt that came out of this hole was nowhere to be found. Whoever dug this hole managed to take the dirt somewhere, and from the size of the hole there was ALOT of it. I couldn't help myself, so I climbed down in the hole, and there at the bottom was the top of a brick wall the someone had uncovered about 15 courses of. I'm pretty sure it was the top of a brick wall because there was a large slab of concrete on the top of the brick (which I used for footing to get out of the hole.) Now, the top of the brick wall at the bottom of the hole was at the RemeyWEST side of the bottom of the hole. But needless to say, whoever dug the hole used our predicted distances and proved that we may not have been far off at all in our calculations!
It also proves that when they demoed the structure, they may have done more burying than actual demolition. Walking down the edges of the plateau, there were plenty of pieces of brick as well as large chunks of concrete, so I don't think they were that concerned about clean-up.
Also, I didn't see any "No Trespassing" signs. And due to the fact that the Remeum is so high off the forest floor (which I wasn't expecting at all!) whoever dug this hole (and continues to dig it, if they are so inclined) has little to worry about along the lines of being caught.
But back to the hole, whoever dug it knew what they were looking for judging by the location. And they got lucky! From what I saw, I don't know that it's the top of the "91" wall, given the side of the hole that it was on, but it very well could be, they may just be on the other side of it.
Bottomline: it was a very fascinating day, especially finding the hole.
A tip of the hat to whomever put in all that work, and that must have been ALOT of work!

Are there intentions to continue digging?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Spacy ()
Date: March 06, 2010 04:00PM

It just can't be legal to be performing this excavation. Merely walking around until being asked to leave by the property owner ought to be okay, as far as trespassing is concerned. But I hope people don't get into trouble or arrested for going actually digging! That seems pretty dicey.

It might be better to secure permission from the property owner for doing these surveys. I don't think anyone would like to recreate the old trespassing and nuisance problems and get all kinds of people (the church, the police, the neighbors, the media, etc.) all upset. A historical survey and documentation would be interesting to the right people.

If you are afraid you can't get permission, can't you just look, and not vandalize the site?

I fear that the way this is going to end is that the site will be posted No Trespassing, it will be patrolled, there will be crime and liability boogeyman concerns, and nobody will ever get to visit it again, and it might be more thoroughly demolished. And we'll be reading about people being arrested, tried, and put in jail for some poor judgment about what could have simply been fun. You're not 17, and this isn't the laid-back 1970s.

I am sure that given FXUs visibility with the police and media that the authorities are going to get involved. They're reading this thread, you know.

It would be a shame to lose this whole interesting thing.

Maybe the active people should get together IRL and try to organize this in a way that will work out better? I'll help.



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2010 04:18PM by Spacy.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 06, 2010 05:33PM

I just got back from the site. I saw everything sculler mentioned plus a few other noteworthy things... I've got things to do tonight, but i'll post a more thorough breakdown tomorrow, along with PICTURES.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: super curious ()
Date: March 06, 2010 06:26PM

I've been following this thread with great interest, mainly because I grew up in Burke/Crosspointe and NEVER knew of this place (neither did my parents, who moved here in the early 70s).

I read somewhere that there was once a bench - is it still there (or in the area?).

Who technically owns the land that the Remeum is on? FXCO, Pohick Church, private? If it's FXCO, as Spacy says, there may be people who would be interested in historically documenting the site (or at least they can give permission).

I can't wait to see pictures!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Scott ()
Date: March 06, 2010 11:00PM

I've lived just about my whole life in FFX CO and never knew about the crypt until reading this thread. Very interesting indeed. I also went to Lake Braddock from 1976-1982, and Jimbo, you look very familiar.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 07, 2010 08:16AM

I was also at the sight yesterday and found the exact same things as Sculler mentioned. I took some pictures and climbed down in the hole that was found. We were wondering the same thing as to where all the dirt went. I did notice that the cement cap that was mentioned at the bottom of the hole appeared to actually be two pieces. One piece was pushed back about 2 inches from the other one, that would make me thing the 91 entrance was capped with two equal sized cement caps and whoever dug this found the dead center of the top of the 91 entrance wall, maybe just the wrong side of it. I also walked the route from the churck parking lot and about half way up the hill I found a 4" square cement block, sticking up out of the ground maybe a foot, and on the top of it was a circular marker that said CMR 1937. I only saw one yesterday but I remember finding more of them in a semi-circle going around behind the obelisk. I would bet they go all the way around the whole structure but most of them were probably buried. If you stand in front of the obelisk and look towards the vents it is amazing how much dirt they piled on top of this thing.
Attachments:
block.jpg
marker.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: spell check ()
Date: March 07, 2010 12:37PM

Spacy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just can't be legal to be performing this
> excavation. Merely walking around until being
> asked to leave by the property owner ought to be
> okay, as far as trespassing is concerned. But I
> hope people don't get into trouble or arrested for
> going actually digging! That seems pretty dicey.
>
> It might be better to secure permission from the
> property owner for doing these surveys. I don't
> think anyone would like to recreate the old
> trespassing and nuisance problems and get all
> kinds of people (the church, the police, the
> neighbors, the media, etc.) all upset. A
> historical survey and documentation would be
> interesting to the right people.
>
> If you are afraid you can't get permission, can't
> you just look, and not vandalize the site?
>
> I fear that the way this is going to end is that
> the site will be posted No Trespassing, it will be
> patrolled, there will be crime and liability
> boogeyman concerns, and nobody will ever get to
> visit it again, and it might be more thoroughly
> demolished. And we'll be reading about people
> being arrested, tried, and put in jail for some
> poor judgment about what could have simply been
> fun. You're not 17, and this isn't the laid-back
> 1970s.
>
> I am sure that given FXUs visibility with the
> police and media that the authorities are going to
> get involved. They're reading this thread, you
> know.
>
> It would be a shame to lose this whole interesting
> thing.
>
> Maybe the active people should get together IRL
> and try to organize this in a way that will work
> out better? I'll help.


11 edits.. goodlord

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 07, 2010 01:03PM

My visit, with my friend “Club”….

1. THE VENTS: The vents are about 20 feet from each other, measuring from the center of each. They seem to be in line with the spire/obelisk, most likely confirming the theory that the vents and spire are the Rwest and Reast ends of the Remeum.

Note from the original pictures of the vents, they are structurally different (Sculler: this is the reason you could not test the depth of the Rwest vent). Perhaps one was intended for intake of air, the other for release of air. I don’t know much about the physics of flues, but I think that makes sense. The Rwest vent holes curve up (presumably bending back down to the underground areas), while the Reast vent has three shafts going straight down to those areas. I lit a small fire in one of the holes from the Rwest vent, and the flames shot inward (hence the intake/outtake theory). On one of four trials did we observe smoke coming from the Reast vent after lighting the fire on the Rwest vent (the other three times, most smoke was blown out of the other side of the Rwest vent). This leads me to believe that there is some sort of air circulation, but the debris (sticks, brick shards, beer cans, etc.) in the Reast vent prevent most of the air from circulating. I’m not completely sure, but after viewing the area, I’ll go back and conduct more experiments on the air circulation; which, now that I think of it, is a great indicator of whether the underground areas are still there.

Also, based on ballpark measurement, the deepest of the three shafts in the Reast vent is about 10ft, the other two between 6-8ft

2. THE HOLE: The hole goes down about 8 feet or so, and does strike a structure that seems to be intact. There are bricks and half-bricks embedded in the walls of the hole, indicating some sort of demolition. The hole is inline with the vents and the spire/obelisk. To my best knowledge (based on being there and taking eyeball measurements, and jgr007’s reconstituting of my MS Paint pic from 3/5/10, 1:07pm) the hole digs down to where the first picture on this thread shows, and not the ‘56JD/91 entrance.

There were no dirt piles near the hole. That opens up two theories: One, the hole was dug many years ago, and erosion has taken the excess dirt piles; or two, it is a sinkhole. Based on a conversation from a spelunker I know, the hole I described is a sinkhole. Despite this, how would a sinkhole randomly appear inline with the spire and vents, and happen to hit a structure? I do think someone dug the hole, but I’m not completely ruling out the sinkhole theory. Either way, be careful when going into the hole.

3: THE SPIRE/OBELISK: The only thing I can say about it that hasn’t been said is that it is near 50ft tall, not 30ft as previously estimated. I’ll post a picture here soon, with me standing against the structure. I’m ~6ft tall with boots on, and it takes about 8 of me to reach the top (again, pictures coming soon).

4: THE SURVEY MARKS: The CMR 1937 markers mentioned by BBX exist; I saw three of them on the Rwest side of the structure. Remember, from one of the first few posts, it mentions “Due to vandalism…Pohick church pressured Remey into breaking the 1937 contract”. These seem to be survey markers from that year, two years before construction began.

In addition to pictures, I’ve got some video of the area. I’ll post them on youtube or another site; I’ll keep you informed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2010 01:20PM by DiamondD-REK.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 07, 2010 01:20PM

How about a GPS coordinate for the hole?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: G ()
Date: March 07, 2010 01:36PM

pretty sure it's still church property so y'all are technically trespassing even if it's not posted

next post will be about someone getting caved in...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: wtfno ()
Date: March 07, 2010 02:12PM

MrDoctor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The vent is the access point. Lets schedule a
> fairfax underground dig


Ain't going to happen unless you can find a way to get electricity out there to power a plasma TV.

This thread kicks ass, but it seems that some company came in dumped a shit ton of dirt on top. Shame.. this place looks awesome and people had to go and tear it up over the years.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 03:19PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 07, 2010 03:47PM

from 3/16/10:
1st pic: brick structure in the hole mentioned
2nd & 3rd: Two of three shafts in the Reast vent
4th: Spire with me (~6ft) for measurement purposes
Attachments:
265_1011.JPG
265_1008.JPG
265_1009.JPG
265_1003.JPG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:10PM

Which direction is the brick structure facing?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:26PM

Approximate coordinates for the entrance are 38.707490, -77.196990 (UTM 308967, 4286608). Look at one of my posts above. You can get the KML and load it in Google Earth. There is some error both in GE and in the registration of the 1960 image to GE so everything is approximate.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:35PM

If you were to look through that brick structure in the hole, you'd see the spire. The wall runs Rnorth to Rsouth, and I believe it is the wall to get into the inner atrium (still above ground), and not the actual underground portions.
My best guess at the hole location is somewhere on the red line, probably closer to the center (as the hole is ballpark inline with the vents and spire).
Attachments:
hole location.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: I love you all ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:48PM

Mad love to everyone who is contributing to this thread...

The only nancy-pants thing I can say is maybe cover up the dug hole/sinkhole so no clueless woods-walker falls in and breaks their ass.

Seriously, this is an amazing thread and I am completely fascinated.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:11PM

It's not a sinkhole. for that you need limestone (karst) underneath which would dissolve into a cave system, and when one of the cave chambers collapses, it creates a sinkhole.
It is possible to get soil collapses, which are usually due to water flow, which this one isn't the case.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:16PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: not a geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:18PM

Could it be water leaking into the intact crypt, or possibly the collapsed brick-filled chamber if its not intact (With all its voids between the rubble) and carrying the dirt away with it?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:19PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: not a geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:21PM

or durr.. If you've been digging the hole then its obviously not a sinkhole..

Make sure you cover that shit up afterwards!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:31PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 10:45PM

not a geologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could it be water leaking into the intact crypt,
> or possibly the collapsed brick-filled chamber if
> its not intact (With all its voids between the
> rubble) and carrying the dirt away with it?


Yep, it's entirely plausible that could be the case. I didn't take that into account because there doesn't seem to be a constant source of water such as a creek or a broken water line, and since it's a topographic high, you won't get a stream of water from rain pooling and draining internally. But, if it was a pre-existing depression on the top of the pile, then over time it's entirely possible that as a small internally draining system from rain, the water could pool over the hole, then flow in.

Are the sides of the hole angled down, or relatively straight? sediment being carried in should be cone shaped, roughly around 23-27 degrees.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 08, 2010 12:26AM

Geologist/notGeologist: The person I talked to about the hole was an amateur spelunker; he just looked for caves in the Shenandoah Valley. He did mention the angle of the sides of the hole, along with the difference between a cylindrical versus a conical shape. It is definitely cylindrical, and with BobSaget's claiming to have participated in the digging, it's most likely not a sinkhole.

BobSaget: When did you start digging? What structure (wall or ceiling) do you think you have reached? What did you do with the dirt/mud from the bottom of the hole?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:27AM

Spacey,

You do have some valid concerns (although they're really not what I wanna hear at this point in the excitement).

I don't know the exact, hair-splitting,legalities of this whole situation, but I think it in order to "vandalize" portions of this site with our "excavation" and "surveys", we'd have to be going about it another way.
I don't think that what we're doing (thus far) necessarilly falls under any of those terms. Plus, there were no "No Tresspassing" signs, and we could just be there to pay respects to our dead relatives in the cemetary or see the historical church...and while we're at it take a short hike in the woods - perfectly legal, right?

We haven't destroyed anything. And what we're looking for has most likely been long forgotten. If it was such a treasure to "the right people" who were so hell-bent on saving it, they should have stepped up back in the early 80's (or the 27 years since then!). Now we our left to literally "dig" through their ignorance. We on this thread view it as an important part of this county's history, and I think (and hope) I speak for more than myself when I say that we haven't put in all this time and research just to destroy it in the end.

"Out of sight, out of mind" is how the Pohick Church seems to have wanted to deal with the Remeum since it was buried, so as long as those who want to see it stay "out of sight" (which seems to be much easier than I originally thought), I don't see how it could be a problem.

On to something else I was thinking about over the weekend - when I was at the site, taking in just how much of a towering plateau it was, rising up from the bottom of the woods, I noticed that there was a significant drop-off behind the Remeyeasternest vent. This made me think of 2 things - (1) if Remey's masterplan was to build the rest of the underground chambers on the plans, was he going to dig even deeper in order to compensate for the drop-off, or was that level 80 years ago and has since been eroded? (2) Since we have an approximate 45 degree drop-off directly behind the Remeyeasternest vent, that should be the rear of the chamber, right? So, if one were so inclined, they could start digging horizontally at the bottom of the 5 foot drop-off and possibly find the rear wall of the chamber. If someone were to find the wall, we'd have a better idea as to whether or not the whole thing was demolished.
And now that I've been to the site, I'm even more convinced that the underground chambers were not destroyed due to the fact that (a) the vents are still there (as we've pointed out before), and you don't destroy a house and leave the chimneys standing. (b) if you've "leveled" something through demolition, then why put 6 feet of dirt on top of it?

DiamondD-REK, I'm not sure I agree with you about the wall in the hole being the Inner Atrium wall and not the wall to the entrance. Using the surveying tools on Historicaerials.com, the wall to the Inner Atrium measures about 76 feet from the Remeywesternest vent, whereas the hole seems to be much closer to 45 feet from the vent (where the "91" wall should be). So I'm inclined to think that we may very well have found the "91" wall, not the Inner Atrium wall.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:34AM

If anyone is looking for something to go explore there is a house boat that washed up on the shore at Mason Neck State Park, its about 10 minutes away from the crypts. If you know where Pohick Regional Park is Mason Neck is a few miles farther down that road. I went out there after visiting the crypts on Saturday and took a look around, there is a bunch of stuff still in the boat and it appears to be in ok condition other than the fact that it is beached.

Back to the crypts, so if the brick wall at the bottom of the hole is really the Inner Atrium wall then how much closer to the vents would the underground entrance be?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:50AM

I'm still convinced that the wall is the "91" wall. It just seems to be too close to the vents to be the Inner Atrium wall.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:39AM

I don't know if the rest of you feel the same way about ticks as I do, but apparently Tick Season starts in April. The combination of all that tall grass up there and the deer tracks that I saw seems to be a bad combination. I realize it's getting warmer, but I suggest light-colored long pants (makes 'em easier to spot) that are tucked into your sucks (stylin'!) and long sleeves, as well as OFF, just to be on the safe side.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 08, 2010 12:27PM

If the hole is only 40-50 feet from the vents, it's definitely not the entrance to the inner atrium. It's the Narthex/entrance to underground or another structure.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 12:46PM

I concur.

I just wish there was a way to figure out what part of the wall was at the bottom of the hole without having to do too much more digging and risking a cave-in.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 02:02PM

If that is the top of the entrance wall at the bottom of the hole, it's obviously the other side of it (seeing as it's facing the vents). So from the top of the OTHER side of that wall, one would have to dig another three feet to reach the top of the sculptures on eithor side of the archway, and then an addtional four and a half feet to the top of the entrance. 8 feet of total digging as far as I can tell. I figured a brick is about 3 inches high, and then about half an inch or so for each of the mortar joint. The sculptures are probably about 4 and a half feet apart (as I counted the 8 inch brick between them).

Approx. 17 feet from the top of the existing hole to the entrance (as far as I can tell)

All my figuring was done using the very first picture of the "91" entrance on the first page of this thread. Math is not my best subject, but when you look at the picture of the entrance from 1956 in comparison to the guy looking at the hole, my numbers seem fairly accurate.

It's seems pretty dangerous to start at the bottom of the existing hole, dig sideways to reach the other side of the wall, and then start digging down again another 8 feet. Then you'd have 8 feet of dirt above your head that's not supported, which doesn't seem all that safe. Widing the hole a couple of feet in the direction of the obelisk (and taking that dirt OUT of the hole), then going the addtional 8 feet to the entrance would be alot of work, with no promise of complete success that what you're looking for is there.

And it's not the legal ramifications I'm so concerned about, but more the safety.
I'd love to see what's down there just as much as the next guy, but when you talk about digging straight down 17 feet (assuming one went that route), that's a whole lotta dirt that could potentially come down on someone. And no matter how many of your buddies are out there with you, chances are slim they'll get to you in time. And if the Crypts are still untouched and the hole you've dug caves in while you're in the chamber, that could potentially suck a whole lot as well.

I hate to turn into such a "wet blanket" all of a sudden, but it wasn't until I crunched the numbers that it came into perspective. Unless someone plans on making that hole ALOT wider, things could go very wrong very quickly.

So far, this thread's been quite a fucking journey from the day it started, but I don't think it's worth anyone getting hurt.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 08, 2010 03:24PM

I was thinking the same thing about that hole caving in and how much that would suck. I do like the idea of digging in from behind the vents to see if we hit a wall, no risk of cave in.

I was also thinking about how they would have built the remainder of the structure after seeing the drop off you mentioned. I'm wondering if the plan wasn't to build right behind those vents as if it would have been above ground and then once it was all complete and had the ceiling on it they would come in and bury the whole thing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 08, 2010 03:40PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 08, 2010 03:55PM

I would say that is the best bet for figuring out if the underground structure still exists. The only problem with that is that is the most exposed side of the site so we would need to be careful about being seen walking back there with shovels. It may be better to line yourself up to the south side of the eastern most vent and dig in that way, you shoudl hit a side wall of the underground structure and would be more shielded from view on that side of the hill.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 08, 2010 04:37PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous fan of thread ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:03PM

Saget, Hip, Sculler, etc.

This thread is amazing. I stumbled upon it Saturday night, 3/6, and was up all night riveted. Sunday afternoon I went to Pohick Church to check out the hole, and I saw a Lorton fire and rescue engine, and thought...oh shit someone got stuck. I saw 2 male and 1 female EMTs walking the grounds, but they didn't approach me, so I went on an checked it out for myself. Don't know why they were there, unless they have a friend buried at Pohick Church.

Lots of deer sign, lots of old beer cans (Meister Brau...damn that's old) and a seriously deep, square hole in some thick bush. As mentioned earlier, it's huge that the snow was so deep recently, as the red thorn bushes look like they'd be evil under normal conditions.

I am totally fascinated by this site. I grew up on Rt. 1, went to MVHS in the 1990s, and never heard a word of this. I talked to an older friend who went to Groveton (now West Potomac) in the late 70s and he said they used to party their a lot. He also mentioned finding a slave dungeon in Huntley Meadows park, complete with shackles and a fire place, that they used when they would go there. Fuckin' fascinating.

I can't believe that this place got buried...it should've been preserved and restored. Seeing those pictures of the Admiral with his head attached bummed me out, but teen vandalism is a timeless situation...they place was getting defaced for nearly 50 years by the bored teens of the area.

After checking it all out, I can't see how they caved it in, and it they did, do you think the Lions and all are still buried down that deep? I was under the impression that the obilisk was at ground level...am I off?

Do you think the lions from the 1954 JD image are buried under the dirt in the 91 entrance image? If so, that would rule!

Keep posting as you go...I don't know that I would want to be the first to crawl into the place again, but god damn is it tempting!!!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous fan of thread ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:08PM

If you were to able to widen the hole enough to make it safe, and then do down another few feet, I think you'd be at the belly crawl level of the late 70s. It just seems like they piled a shit ton more dirt on it.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:18PM

What's the GPS coordinate of the hole?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 08, 2010 10:05PM

The Fairfax Police dept has begun surveillance of this location with more frequency and will arrest anyone found trespassing or defacing the property. Fair warning.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 08, 2010 10:38PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 09, 2010 07:42AM

Bob,

If you dig behind the vents I would not expect to find a way in, just a wall of some sort. There was mention of a cinder block wall in the crypts that no one knew what was on the other side of it and my bet is that was where the Remeum would have been expanded to finish the rest of the rooms on the plan. Digging behind those vents and finding an intact vertical wall would just tell us that the underground structure still seems to be in place.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: curiuos ()
Date: March 09, 2010 08:54AM

Doesnt there need to be a sign that says no trespassing in order to enforce it? Just like jehovas witness that walk in your yard I cant call the cops on them unless I have a sign displayed

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: XXX ()
Date: March 09, 2010 09:06AM

§ 18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-173; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1982, c. 169; 1987, cc. 625, 705; 1991, c. 534; 1998, cc. 569, 684.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Yes, you are not trespassing until you have been told by a person to leave and don't or leave and come back, or it is posted by a sign.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: wtfno ()
Date: March 09, 2010 04:57PM

Anonymous fan of thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I talked to an older friend
> who went to Groveton (now West Potomac) in the
> late 70s and he said they used to party their a
> lot. He also mentioned finding a slave dungeon in
> Huntley Meadows park, complete with shackles and a
> fire place, that they used when they would go
> there.


Wait.... what?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 09, 2010 07:39PM

I don't know what my thought process was in my previous post, but yes, I agree that the hole should be over the structure in the 91 picture (albeit the incorrect side).

saget: When were you digging? Also, I was looking at your pics from photobucket.. Someone has his/her foot over a small brick wall with a pipe; where is that pipe structure located?

Man, fuck the po-lice

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 09, 2010 10:57PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: quickThought ()
Date: March 10, 2010 01:17AM

Somebody should organize a documented restoration or digging, with permits and so on. Get buy in from pohick church and county(?) so its all legal, safe, and the legend can lay to rest once and for all. Hell, turn it into a park or attraction with historical signs etc. This could:

-Provide good PR for FFX Co. and church

-Eliminate future incidents, because the facts will be out there. Otherwise there will be people sneaking around back there all the time (maybe even me)

-Allow police to enforce real crime, instead of threatening trespassing charges on internet boards over something victimless and harmless. Cops: Look around, there are more important places you could be patrolling and better ways for you to uphold the law than bothering people that are interested in history

-Allow for efficient, uninterrupted digging etc. which sounds unlikely now.

-It Would probably be unrealistic otherwise to remove that much dirt, especially if the whole thing is filled in (I would guess it is)

-Provide all of us who are curiously following this thread with results

-Would be a good documentary, news story, etc.

Whoever owns the land should be investing in resources to clean the place out, document it for tv or film, or open it as attraction. I am cheering for anyone exploring this place, digging, and especially those providing pictures. Unfortunately, I think the reality of it is that unauthorized efforts will be too tough to really get anywhere.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 10, 2010 07:47AM

So long as the Church, Authorities, nieghbors, etc. aren't under the impression that Disney has opened up a new themepark in the woods, I don't foresee there being a problem. Nothing has been destroyed, and no one has any intentions of destruction (not that anyone besides those on this thread give a damn about the Remeum).

I'm sure those who've been contributing to this thread would love to continue providing everyone with updates and results. But if the Church and the County were asked to participate or aid in these explorations, that's a sure-fire way to STOP GETTING RESULTS AND UPDATES. As long as everyone remains safe, non-destructive and descrete, I don't see why anyone should have a concern as to what's going on out there.

Anonymous fan of thread, from what I've read WAY back in the beginning is that most of the free-standing sculptures were all removed since they were the main targets of the vandals, unfortunately. However, seeing as the 2 sculptures to the right and left of the "91" entrance appear to have been built into the wall, I would assume those are still there and would be of great help in locating said entrance. You took care not to draw too much attention to yourself when the Fire Department was there, right?

I agree about hitting the other side of the cinderblock wall if one were to dig in from behind the vents, and the fact that it appears to be alot safer. I also agree that if someone were to find that cinderblock wall intact that it would definately give us a better idea as to whether or not the chambers were still intact. Then again, I also have to agree that given the lack of current foliage to provide cover, if one were to start digging there now it might be pretty obvious to curious neighbors. Another angle of approach might be a better idea.

And yes, I still think that the wall at the bottom of the hole is the "91" wall, it's just the wrong side of it. I still can't think of a safe way someone would go about digging all the way down to the entrance without widing the entrance to that hole by at least 8 feet (I'm not an engineer, but the wider the better...well, not from a descrete point of view.)

As for this "slave dugeon" in Huntley Meadows, I smell a new thread of exploration, hopefully (assuming it still exists).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: idea ()
Date: March 10, 2010 03:59PM

I would suggest seeing if you can contact any decedents of Remey. I heard a rumor that they had wanted to get the dirt removed a few years back, but the church didn't really want to, or didn't want to pay the money to have it excavated. The church dragged their heels and I think the idea was eventually dropped. The family may still be interested, though! oh, and i think there are no trespassing signs up now, just fyi.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: No Trespassing ()
Date: March 10, 2010 06:06PM

Be advised that the church is aware of what is going on (including monitoring this thread) and No Trespassing signs are being posted and the police have been alerted.

Does anyone really think that if they're caught digging on private property that they're not going to be cited with anything? And, there are other parts of VA law that protect trespass or disturbance of church & cemetery grounds and structures, so if you intend to go much further, you might want to read up on those.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: wtfno ()
Date: March 10, 2010 06:58PM

idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would suggest seeing if you can contact any
> decedents of Remey. I heard a rumor that they had
> wanted to get the dirt removed a few years back,
> but the church didn't really want to, or didn't
> want to pay the money to have it excavated. The
> church dragged their heels and I think the idea
> was eventually dropped. The family may still be
> interested, though! oh, and i think there are no
> trespassing signs up now, just fyi.

This is probably the best course of action. If you get the family involved, that may allow exploring or, at least, some compassion on a judge's part if it had to go that far. I think this thread kicks ass and I want to see what is underneath just as much as the next person, but there are laws in place. Not worth getting hit with a fine or feeling metal to your wrists for this.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 07:26AM

While Remey's family may be proud of what Charles built and the incredible vision that he had, due to the fact that none of their family is still buried there I don't think they would be that interested. If the family was really that interested, they would have made an effort to do something about it over the last 30 years (at least). Contacting the family is an interesting idea, but whatever they have to say will most likely have little impact on the County's narrow-mindedness.
That brings me to another point: If even the descendants of the man who masterminded this incredible structure don't give a damn about it, why would anyone else? It's been 30 years since it was demolished! 30 years! Anyone from the police department that was working back then has most likely retired, and the same for the Church. Until someone actually sees a "No Trespassing" sign (and I assure you, there were no signs as of 3/6/10), or Fairfax County's finest at the edge of the woods with their hands on their hips, I'm not buying what you're selling. I'm still under the firm belief that VERY FEW people know and/or give a shit about what's out there. Why you insist on peppering this thread with threats that people are going to be arrested, I don't know. Maybe when you were a child the other kids didn't include you in their activities, but that's your personal problem, not ours.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: idea ()
Date: March 11, 2010 02:10PM

someone cares, as there ARE "no trespassing" signs up (as of 3/10/10), the church DID find the hole, and DID call the police. I personally would love to see whats left of the remeum, but i didn't want to see people in trouble with the law. Especially since i'm pretty sure there's more at stake than just a slap on the wrist for trespassing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 02:48PM

OK. I agree, I don't want anyone to get in trouble eithor (kinda because it seems like such a stupid thing to get busted for).

Let's say we believe you, and that the church did in fact put up signs and notified the police. My question is, why would they call the police unless they actually saw somebody back there digging? I wouldn't think they'd call the police simply because people were walking in the woods.

And let's say they did find the hole.

So what?

They found a hole in the ground. You know what they didn't find?

The dirt that came out of the hole.

A number of people on this thread have stated that they too have seen the hole. Due to the fact that there was no dirt around it they actually thought it might be a sink hole, despite the incredible coincidence of the location. For all we know, the church/police thought the same thing. If the church was aware that people were going back there, I feel like they would have actually confronted them or called the police in a timely fashion to have them stopped, and we've have heard about it by now.

If a credible source (you know who you are) posts that there are NO TRESSPASSING signs that have recently been put up, I'll believe it. However, it's gonna take alot more convincing to make me believe they called the cops for people walking into the woods in broad daylight. So I'm sticking with my theory that nobody but a select few care/know about what's back there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 02:54PM

idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would suggest seeing if you can contact any
> decedents of Remey. I heard a rumor that they had
> wanted to get the dirt removed a few years back,
> but the church didn't really want to, or didn't
> want to pay the money to have it excavated. The
> church dragged their heels and I think the idea
> was eventually dropped. The family may still be
> interested, though! oh, and i think there are no
> trespassing signs up now, just fyi.

In this post you say that you "think there are no trespassing signs up"

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 03:02PM

idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> someone cares, as there ARE "no trespassing" signs
> up (as of 3/10/10), the church DID find the hole,
> and DID call the police. I personally would love
> to see whats left of the remeum, but i didn't want
> to see people in trouble with the law. Especially
> since i'm pretty sure there's more at stake than
> just a slap on the wrist for trespassing.

And the very next day, you say "there ARE 'no trespassing' signs up".

Have you seen them, or are you just upset because I didn't believe you when you stated that you "thought" there were NO TRESSPASSING signs up?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 11, 2010 03:13PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 07:02PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 11, 2010 04:08PM

We have been asked to step up enforcement of the church property and will not hesitate to arrest anyone found trespassing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: idea ()
Date: March 11, 2010 04:28PM

bob - it doesn't really matter to me what you believe. just tryin to look out for ya...i dont really think the church likes people on their property, or in the priest's backyard. If you do decide to go do more digging, though, I wouldn't put up photobucket album pictures as your profile picture on facebook. Again, just lookin out. I realize that the goal is adventure; leave nothing but footprints...I am just suggesting exploring somewhere else for now, thats all.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: No Trespassing ()
Date: March 11, 2010 04:42PM

bob saget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell us how you know the police have been
> contacted, from what you have said I don't believe
> any of it.


Funny how you don't believe it, yet you've edited out your previous posts in this thread... call the church property manager and ask him yourself.

Oh and you might want to look up VA Code 18.2-127 & 128 before you go out there again.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 11, 2010 05:39PM

how the fuck are you gonna suggest we call the church and ask about possible sightings of trespass?
"hey, pohick church, seen anyone in your backyard lately?"
"no.."
"oh good. well, don't look back there, 'cause no one has been there in 30 years. Trust me. And I'm damn sure I wasn't there"

C'mon SON!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Charles Mason Remey ()
Date: March 11, 2010 06:30PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the FFXPD doesn't post warnings in internet forums....who else thinks that we're getting trolled?

HURR DURR LOOK U GAIZ, ITS ME, CHARLES REMEY, IT EVEN SAYZ SO IN THE NAME FIELD

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Observer ()
Date: March 11, 2010 07:34PM

A great thread, with a great piece of local history which has been all but forgotten.

As much as I would like to see the Remey Crypts excavated and restored,unless someone can convince the landowner(s) to allow it I'm afraid all the digging and otherwise unauthorized explorations are exercises in futility. The law is very clear on the property rights of landowners, and it is without regard to any implied or imagined historical value of their property.

Also, be aware that because the recent activity has not gone unnoticed, we may expect that just as soon as the crypt is breached (assuming it is still intact to any degree where it actually can be), access will come to an abrupt halt and the landowner, the county, or SOMEONE will call in a demolition team and finally implode the place and put an end to the speculation and digging forever.

So, where does that leave us? The only viable option, if there is enough interest and resources, is to negotiate a deal, either a lease or purchase, for the land.

If the structure is indeed mostly intact, and if there really is enough historical significance this could be feasable.

Citizen and corporate donors might be willing to pay $20 to hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a brick or plaque engraved with their name in a highly visible place at the facility.

Maybe not. Just sayin'...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Woodland Res ()
Date: March 11, 2010 07:48PM

if the police really have made this a big issue of theirs, that is pretty sad. its a shame that they are going to take the fun out of all of this. everyone has been extremely mature with their posts and this has been one of the best threads ever.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: tree ()
Date: March 11, 2010 07:52PM

Just found this thread, interesting stuff-

Interesting hearing the history of the "Remeum". It's interesting to see his idea and attempts to preserve his legacy and Family history. Not many people would go to the lengths of spending almost an entire fortune creating a giant memorial like the whole Remeum complex. He even did it pretty young in his life, he was even still alive to see it demolished. What was he thinking, spend what, was it 2 mill. in 1939 or 49 on a crazy amount of bricks and labor. Then see the property turn into a place where kid's went to do illegal things. Then see the property destroyed because it's become too much of a nuisance. What a vision! Well at least Remey's project brought a few tons of business to whoever sold bricks back then.

But ultimately we must realize that there are better way's to become immortalized. Remey would be better remembered if he spent that money in philanthropic ways and got a normal grave like the rest of us. That would be a better investment, help people out, leave a better appreciation and opinion of the man. Seems like a good situation all around.

The Remeum as we know it today is a Monument and Crypt honoring bad idea's that ultimately fail. May the idiotic ideas of people gone before us find their resting place deep beneath the soil, never to be disturbed again.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Officer Friendly of the FFXPD ()
Date: March 11, 2010 09:11PM

DiamondD-REK, we are also keeping an eye on you son. Keep it legal.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: March 11, 2010 09:20PM

Visited the Remeum to check out the rumors of the No Trespassing signs. Does not look good for future exploring.
Attachments:
IMG_2982v4.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: March 11, 2010 10:59PM

Geez,

I sure would hate to finally get back inside there and then have to hide from the cops in the dark again.

Staking out the crypts was not a high priority for the police back when it was being used for booze & drugs. It is probably less a priority now, now that it is inaccessible and police department budgets are hurting along with everyone else's.

If someone just HAD to go and try to get in there, despite warnings of trespassing, he would have to do it at night (probably over many nights). The progress could easily be monitored by the authorities during the day. When it appeared that a successful entry was near, they could send someone to catch that person. Who knows? Someone could go to Dick's Sporting Goods and get one of those motion sensor cameras that attach to trees and set it near the work site so the scofflaw could be caught on camera (better wear a mask). It sounds riskier than it's worth, but if successful, the entire Crypt Forum would surely be impressed!I am not condoning this project, merely stating that a successful documented entry would be the acme of ninja studliness.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: sigh ()
Date: March 12, 2010 12:18AM

we're obviously being trolled -- some pansy who apparently didn't get stuffed into a locker enough times in high school is feeling a little inadequate.

but the fact remains that those code sections could be interpreted to apply. most likely any judge would throw it out since the whole thing is harmless, but it'd still be a pain in the ass.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 12, 2010 07:42AM

I'm kind of conflicted. If there was a way to approach the church with a proposal to have the Remeum excavated so that there was something in it for them, maybe that would work. If someone was able to convince the church that it was in the interest of preserving/rediscovering part of this county's history, there's a slim chance they might go for it. But as someone already stated earlier, with the county's budget being the way it is, it all comes down to money - and the lack there of. Unless there's someone out there who's feeling REALLY generous and has some to time to kill doing some SERIOUS lobbying, I just don't see it happening. But if it was done right, it would be the optimal situation.
As I've said before (LONG before all the trolls showed up), there are one too many narrow-minded pencil pushers working for the county that wouldn't approve at all of people being out there. So we're just supposed to forget about this incredible piece of history right in our backyard, and settle for looking at pictures of it in the Virginia Room? How is that fair? We just want to appreciate it, the same way people like to appreciate Mount Vernon. Has anyone ever seen the picture of Mount Vernon before it was properly restored? It looked like it was on the verge of being condemned, and look at it now! (Yes, I realize the Remeum is NOT Mount Vernon, but work with me here) What if someone had just said "Oh, no. That house is too far gone and dangerous for people to be walking around in, just level it."?
Our sense of adventure might get in the way of our common sense every now and then, but in the end we're just looking to appreciate what was once there, and that's difficult to do when it's buried under about 15 feet of dirt. I don't think Mount Vernon would rake in all that cash if all that remained of it was some stones from the foundations.
I can't help but get a little pissed off thinking that there's a fat fuck out there behind a desk that would tell me the only way I can appreciate this history is to fork up an impossible amount of money.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Old Guy ()
Date: March 12, 2010 09:56AM

Awesome thread. But funny that all this fuss is over a structure that's 50-60 years old. I have furniture older than that.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 12, 2010 10:08AM

You can always park in the church parking lot and take a stroll on the church grounds. Up near the actual church there are some really old graves, I want to say one was from the revolutionary war but I don't remember since it has been so long since I was up there. At that point you would not be trespassing and you could probably take a walk out to the graveyard and see if the signs are posted. I can see the church not wanting us back there, the last time people could get in this place it turned into party central. Those of us posting here have no desire to destroy/deface the place but as soon as word gets out that there is a way in you can bet there will be all kinds of people out there trying to get in. Sounds like it might be time to head on over to Huntley Meadows and let the Remeum cool down for a while.

We need more info on this slave dungeon, at Huntley Meadows park is a little vague to just go wandering around out there. Was it built out of brick, cement, any info you can find would be great.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 12, 2010 10:16AM

Scouting for signs while trying to look as academic as possible isn't a bad idea.

As far as the Slave Dungeons are concerned, I found nothing on them when I searched the internet. Plus,that park is way too big to just start strolling around aimlessly. We're gonna need more reliable info. before embarking on that adventure.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 12, 2010 02:15PM

The church is concerned with folks parking in the lot that are not on church business. As a result of that, we will be enforcing the parking lot and writing tickets on vehicles that don't belong there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 12, 2010 02:21PM

Thanks for the heads up. Now we know where not to park.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXUPD ()
Date: March 12, 2010 03:16PM

Hi this is officer Fist Mcbutt from the Fairfax underground police dept., and anyone not caught digging up the crypt will be anally prosecuted.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: oddly enough ()
Date: March 12, 2010 03:42PM

There actually *is* an Officer Butt working for the FCPD.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 12, 2010 06:30PM

yo, i was at the Remeum entrance (not 91, the entrance to the path in the woods), and THERE IS a "no tresspassing" sign. It looks to have been posted by the church, and it was not there this past saturday. Either someone is stalking this thread, or someone in the rector's house saw people strolling through the woods. Either way, I suggest a halt to Remeum adventures until we can figure this out.

As others have said, we don't want to attract too much attention at one time. Also, I agree that this a low priority for the police, but we need to tread lightly since the church (at least) has been alerted to our presence in the woods.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: tyrone ()
Date: March 12, 2010 06:44PM

Everyone invloved-don't go there, we dont want then to mess this up, we only have one chance

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous fan of Thread ()
Date: March 12, 2010 10:19PM

This thread rocks, and I don't think you could get locked up for trespassing just to visit the site. It is, after all, listed on the Fairfax County Webpage, and people travel all over the original 13 colonies to see old graves, etc. Digging is another story. I loved seeing the photobucket slide shows, and I admire your daring, but I'd be concerned about it getting traced back to you.

My friend who told me about huntley meadows said that they informed the park authority about the slave dungeon at some point, and unless it was leveled, I'd imagine it's out there somewhere, but you're right about nothing on the internet. When I googled huntley meadows dungeon, there was a conspiracy theory page that thought a coast gaurd GPS was a prison for al queda, but it was about it.

If you are visiting the site, don't bring a shovel. No harm in looking...just disavow knowledge of this thread.

If you are intent on digging, invest in night vision goggles and plan to hide your work, because as someone mentioned earlier, they might just toss TNT into it this time. It sucks, but it's on church property, so they can do almost anything they want with it.

Perhaps it could be protected as a historical site, given the importance of it's designer. If you contacted a local BaHai temple, they might be supportive of it, since CMR was a big whig in that religion, until he caused a schism anyhow.

That's all for now. The only other cool places around might be at Ft. Hunt park, where they interrogated german POWs. We used to go there on field trips, and dare each other how deep into the bunkers we would go. Might be something there too, but I wouldn't dare dig on federal park land. A shovel or even metal detector is liable to get you fined or jailed. I guess amateur archaeology is frowned upon at the moment.

Anyhow, keep the thread active, and post any new developments...it's too damn interesting not to keep after.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: G ()
Date: March 12, 2010 11:16PM

seems to me the church went to great length & expense over the decades to literally bury this part of their past, and they're not going to welcome anyone poking around back there, much less digging.

DiamondD-REK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yo, i was at the Remeum entrance (not 91, the
> entrance to the path in the woods), and THERE IS a
> "no tresspassing" sign. It looks to have been
> posted by the church, and it was not there this
> past saturday. Either someone is stalking this
> thread, or someone in the rector's house saw
> people strolling through the woods.

umm that was all noted a couple days ago and dismissed as trolling... I guess some of the Indiana Jones wannabes are a little slow.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: quickThought ()
Date: March 13, 2010 12:26AM

The Sculler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm sure those who've been contributing to this
> thread would love to continue providing everyone
> with updates and results. But if the Church and
> the County were asked to participate or aid in
> these explorations, that's a sure-fire way to STOP
> GETTING RESULTS AND UPDATES. As long as everyone
> remains safe, non-destructive and descrete, I
> don't see why anyone should have a concern as to
> what's going on out there.

good call lol

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 13, 2010 04:29PM

We have some recorded film from a surveillance camera placed at the scene. We are reviewing the film and matching faces with our database. Charges may be pending.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bored? ()
Date: March 13, 2010 04:38PM

Ha! isnt their some *real* crime you should be investigating??

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Kardinal ()
Date: March 13, 2010 05:52PM

bored? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha! isnt their some *real* crime you should be
> investigating??

As disappointed as I am not to find out what's really down there, someone misusing YOUR property is a real crime. And Pohick Church deserves the same protection YOU do.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TheObserver ()
Date: March 14, 2010 01:36PM

As much as I highly doubt the FFXPD would tell people in an online forum that they are watching you, I do think we should all be a little more careful about what we are doing there. Perhaps, like others have suggested it would be a good idea to bring the church or the Remey family in on this? I mean, someone might be able to ask the church if maybe we can have one weekend or something to explore at our own cost and then when we're done, leave everything the way we found it? That way we get what we want and their property rights are respected. Perhaps someone here knows someone who works at a construction company that does underground work and may have access to the radar that they use to scan underground before digging?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 14, 2010 02:24PM

We have access to many things, including your IP address. Tread lightly, stay legal.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Spacy ()
Date: March 14, 2010 05:24PM

FFXPD Wrote
[various stupid things]

C'mon, nobody thinks you're a police man, just that it's pathetic that you think you're messing with people on a forum. Please desist - you're spamming.

By the way, impersonating a police officer *is* a crime. And the moderators have YOUR IP address.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2010 01:24AM by Spacy.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: RotnRik ()
Date: March 14, 2010 07:18PM

"FFXPD 0": the 'NO TRESPASSING' signs didn't stop us in the '70s, good luck with your surveillance! DON'T SHOOT ANYBODY! The Crypts (THREAT OF PAGANS & MUCH LESS, THE COPS) was one true THRILL of my childhood. The last entrance I found was about 1/2 way down the south wall at the top edge of the site, that was in the early '80s. ONE LEVEL was all we ever found. WE WERE JUST KIDS HAVIN' FUN, MAN THAT JOINT WAS COOL!!!!!...RotnRik...BURKE BROS...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 15, 2010 06:57AM

DiamondD-REK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yo, i was at the Remeum entrance (not 91, the
> entrance to the path in the woods), and THERE IS a
> "no tresspassing" sign. It looks to have been
> posted by the church, and it was not there this
> past saturday. Either someone is stalking this
> thread, or someone in the rector's house saw
> people strolling through the woods. Either way, I
> suggest a halt to Remeum adventures until we can
> figure this out.
>
> As others have said, we don't want to attract too
> much attention at one time. Also, I agree that
> this a low priority for the police, but we need to
> tread lightly since the church (at least) has been
> alerted to our presence in the woods.

Damn.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Spacy is one dumb mother fucker ()
Date: March 15, 2010 01:55PM

moderator? moderator? You idiot.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: PD 640 ()
Date: March 16, 2010 01:18AM

The reason that we (the Police) are using this online forum to tell you all that we are watching you, is because there is no advantage for us not to tell you. Those of you who are smart, will take the warning and stay away... we call that "voluntary compliance" and it means less work for us. (insert lazy cop joke here)

For those of you who ignore the warnings and show up anyway, just know that we WILL be looking for your flashlights in the dark; we WILL be looking for MORE of your illegally parked cars on Old Colchester Rd; we WILL call up our helicopter with the "Forward Looking Infra Radar (FLIR) to chase you through the woods at night; We WILL be trying to catch you; we WILL put you in handcuffs and take you to the Adult Detention Center (ADC) and finally, when the case goes to trial we WILL tell the Judge how we first warned all of you that we were going to do it... which means that by giving you all fair warning, we are building a better case for ourselves in court. so the real question is why wouldn't we tell you?

Please do not kid yourself into believing that our Judges will not take this serious... read the laws, there are numerous laws that specifically address what you are talking about doing ...("Trespassing" (generally)... "trespassing in cemeteries"... "trespassing on church property"..."trespass, injuries to cemeteries" (I assure you that the court will see any digging at a burial site as an "injury") That's just a start.)

Before you go trashing us too much, think about it, for us this is not about ruining your fun it is about protecting the property owner. For some of you this is harmless fun, but history tells us that this is a slippery slope. We know that once word gets out that you got away with this, others will follow you. Be honest, we all know that some people who are attracted to cemeteries have a dangerous idea of "fun" and someone eventually takes "fun" too far (ie. more serious problems for the church). Once things get out of hand it will be even harder for us to stop people... and once the Judge starts asking why we are singling out some defendants since we didn't prosecute others, then it will be even harder for us to win in court. By addressing this small problem now (at a minimal financial cost), we are saving ourself a lot of work (and money...don't forget those budget shortages) later. (insert lazy cop joke here)

Lastly, for those of you who don't believe that I'm a real cop... I DON'T CARE. I posted this to help warn those normally law abiding citizens who are thinking about doing something that they are going to regret later (and no, I will not have pity on you then). For those of you who still want to question it, you have two choices: 1) Play it safe and don't test me. or 2) When you get arrested in Lorton you will recognize me because I will be the Officer who is laughing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 16, 2010 07:37AM

Wow.

I think I speak for everyone when I say that was very moving. And all those big legal terms you threw in there, very impressive. You even took the time to come up with a badge number for yourself.

Remember, shoulder injuries are much more serious than people think. So stretch thoroughly. Just something to think about when your patting yourself on the back.

If I can give you some advice (as it seems like you take your make-believe Police Officer job VERY SERIOUSLY), it's not smart to admit the flaws and weaknesses of the legal system to the general public much less those that you're trying to intimidate. Also, real police officers usually don't invite citizens to question whether or not they're actually police officers, as they take alot of pride in their jobs (hence the whole "badge and uniform" thing). Just some things to keep in mind when you're making desperate grasps at credibility.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 16, 2010 09:26AM

The Sculler, mock now, be arrested later. We are watching you son.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 16, 2010 10:15AM

I don't think I'm alone when I say that I've always had a little fantasy about being cuffed by a smokin' hot female police officer. Ya know, maybe she could shove me into the side of the squad car before she pats me down, kinda rough-like. Can we arrange that?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: KopCiller ()
Date: March 16, 2010 07:19PM

"trespassing in cemeteries"... "trespassing on church property"..."trespass, injuries to cemeteries"

Officer, please tell us why the police department didn't do their job back in 1956 when was an actual mausoleum, cemetery, and church property to protect. Now that it's an empty, overgrown field it's being protected?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: 496 ()
Date: March 16, 2010 11:09PM

KopCiller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "trespassing in cemeteries"... "trespassing on
> church property"..."trespass, injuries to
> cemeteries"
>
> Officer, please tell us why the police department
> didn't do their job back in 1956 when was an
> actual mausoleum, cemetery, and church property to
> protect. Now that it's an empty, overgrown field
> it's being protected?


It's a conspiracy I tell ya.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Citizen ()
Date: March 17, 2010 11:44AM

Very good point, and if the so called "cop" on this site is for real, why aren't you out solving a crime or protecting the public rather than wasting tax payers money surfing the net?

By the way, Pohick Church is one of the most historic churches in America. It's even listed on the register of national historic landmarks. If the church members themselves didn't want it listed they could ask to have it removed from the list. Visitors come from miles away to visit the site and to see where the father of our country worshiped. Are the police really going to harass/ticket every visitor who parks in their lot? Do they really want that sort of negative publicity? Are they also going to harass the poor souls that come to visit the graves of their lost loved ones that lie buried in the graveyard?

I certainly don't condone any sort of vandalism or destruction and I would personally call the police on anyone that I witnessed doing so, but using this forum to threaten those who haven't yet broken any laws is an abuse of power, not to mention just being a douche!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 17, 2010 02:04PM

In the beginning, Treasure Oak Court was an option that I considered for a point of entry, as there doesn't appear to be a fence keeping you out of the woods. As far as we know, there's only one NO TRESPASSING sign at the edge of the woods where the church is. So, if one was feeling lucky and was careful as to how they parked in that neighborhood, they could possibly still get in and get away with playing stupid should they get confronted. And someone from the church isn't likely to see you from their window through all those trees.

Just trying to find the silver-lining, for exploration's sake.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 17, 2010 05:47PM

yo thanks sculler, for being one to BELIEVE me when I said there was a tresspassing sign, church side. I would hope I've contributed enough to the thread to not be dismissed as a troll (post by G, March 12 ... seriously dude, fuck you).

I heard from someone who was a former construction contractor, and he said something about tresspassing signs needing to be at least 50 ft apart on the perimeter of the property (not sure on the figure, of if that is an old law, so I understand if this is hearsay). Before going into the woods, I considered entering through Treasure Oak ct. From what I could see driving by, there is no fence nor a "no tresspassing" sign on that side of the woods. I decided to park elsewhere, and walked to the Remeum via the rector's house road/"path off to the right". I definitely recommend caution before going back into the woods, but going the Treasure Oak way and playing stupid if caught seems like a possibility.

Note: I visited Treasure Oak ct. on 3/6/10, so there may have been a sign posted since then.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: G ()
Date: March 17, 2010 05:48PM

Visitation rights for family members of the departed are quite a different thing than random hooligan trespassing.

As someone mentioned before, CALL THE CHURCH PROPERTY MGR AND ASK if it's ok to visit back there, instead of sneaking around and risking getting a stupid citation. What's so hard about that? If you're not doing anything illicit, and possibly even want to visit out of genuine historical interest, then making a quick phone call or checking in with the church office should be no problem. The fact that people are sneaking around back there in the dark or with shovels is what made this an issue in the first place, and arguing with some imaginary cop isn't going to fix that.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 17, 2010 08:25PM

Playing stupid will get you arrested son. STAY OFF THE PROPERTY.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 17, 2010 09:37PM

to FFXPD: Please take your sidearm and shoot yourself. If you don't have one because you're a phony bitch, then I suggest you find the nearest cliff and see how quickly you can reach the bottom. I'm sorry your parents didn't love you and you can no longer find any scum-sucking piece of shit to like you. It's not our fault you sit at home all day on the computer.

Let me guess the breakdown of your computer time: masturbating, while using your own tears as lubricant = 80%, being an overall bitch = 5%, Talking to your valium addicted bitch of a mother = 15%.

If you're a cop and dislike the "unloading of the sidearm to my temple" idea, then take your baton and shove it up your ass. You make Darwin squirm in his grave by being alive. For his sake, and the sake of humanity, please kill yourself...at this point, its the only option.

Oh and let me guess your response: "Diamond D-REK, you're getting arrested son!"

On a "serious" note, THANK YOU FFXPD, we have heeded your warnings. If we choose to go on to the property (whether legal or not), so be it. There is no need for you to post anything else.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: walker ()
Date: March 17, 2010 11:10PM

Awesome thread....great pics! Me and some of my friends got busted out there in '81 (or maybe it was '82). We got tickets for trespassing and had to go to court.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 18, 2010 07:11AM

Oh, Officer, thank God your back! I forgot to tell you earlier, I LOVE red-heads! Can the female cop that cuffs me be a red-head? That would be AWESOME. Maybe she could call me "dirt bag" or "scum" when she shoves me in the back-seat of the squadcar. (Sorry to be so high maintenance, I'm just really looking forward to this!)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 18, 2010 07:45AM

"Hooligans", as opposed to those who appreciate history, are two very different groups of people.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: ohkevy ()
Date: March 18, 2010 05:55PM

Very interesting forum here. I looked up information several years ago on the crypts and found nothing so let it go. Finding this rehashes my memories of being their and desires to go back.

I went down in their many times as a pre teen and teenager. If anyone has unanswered questions feel free to ask, I just might be able to help.

BTW, I have been shot at on more than one occasion their back in the day by someone from the house nearby and chased by dogs. Doesn't sound like that goes on anymore from reading this post but visitors were definitely never welcome.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: super curious ()
Date: March 18, 2010 08:01PM

What is you were to contact a college with an anthropology/archaeology department to see if they would be interested in doing a dig? That way, it would be "educational" and done correctly (i.e. no cave ins).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: March 21, 2010 10:49PM

Somebody just go there at night. Be quiet and stealthy and show some sophistication. It would be cool to wear a hockey mask too, so no one would mess with you if it turned out you weren't alone.

If you bring a Sony 'nightshot' camera, you can also see other sources of infra red light used by potential cameras/surveillance equipment (which I doubt is there). That way, you could identify it, disable it or give it the finger.

I don't recall Stumpy ever firing at us but I do remember him setting dogs after us several times. I doubt if that would be the case nowadays, given the huge proliferation in lawyers flying lazy circles over populated areas, waiting for lawsuits from such happenings.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Youngster ()
Date: March 21, 2010 10:50PM

I was just talking to my mother about this and she grew up in the area, went to Lake Braddock, and she said that they partied in the early 80s (1984?) there and called them "The Crypts." She said it was all underground by the time she was there, but they eventually stopped hanging out there because bikers were scaring them out of the area.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: ohh ()
Date: March 22, 2010 09:36AM

Quote

What is you were to contact a college with an anthropology/archaeology department to see if they would be interested in doing a dig? That way, it would be "educational" and done correctly (i.e. no cave ins).

that is a very good idea

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 22, 2010 11:33AM

I've been chewing on this idea since it was suggested, but I'm not sure they would think it was worth their time. Now, if a decent amount of those statues/carvings/coffins were still down there (for sure), I can see how they'd be interested in getting their hands dirty. From what we've learned, those items were crafted by some local artists of note and were pretty intricate in detail, but I beleive that most of it was removed prior to the final demolition.

If someone had reasonable evidence to show that some of that stuff was still down there, I agree that you'd stand a chance of getting them involved.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 22, 2010 01:53PM

A friendly reminder that the Fairfax County police dept. continues to monitor this property and is working closely with the church in prosecuting trespassers, vandals and underage drinking.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 22, 2010 02:14PM

Speaking of "friendly", how are the arrangements coming with my arrest by a Red-Headed, frisky, female police officer? You're still gonna come through for me, right?! Don't let me down, man! I'm countin' on ya!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Ima Lawyer ()
Date: March 22, 2010 02:33PM

I hear ya Barney Fife. Now nip it! Nip it in the bud! By the way, impersonating a police officer is a Federal offense.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: izbad ()
Date: March 23, 2010 11:28AM

fascinating thread here. Too bad the morons who are digging don't realize they could be digging through asbestos or some other nasty shit. Do you think that "clean" fill dirt was used to fill that place in so that years later it could be safely dug up? I am interested to know what is left down there but you won't catch me digging in that shit hole!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 24, 2010 05:16AM

Where was the huge crypt Remey had set aside for himself, shown in a couple of the photographs -- where in the plan is this room shown?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 26, 2010 10:14PM

I was just there about 2 hours ago. There are wooden posts with caution tape around the hole, and a few "no tresspassing" signs in the vicinity of the hole. I found a "no tresspassing" sign, signed by Pohick church, mutilated, on the ground. I've got it now.

I didn't want to take flash pictures in case I disturbed the rector house, but I intend to take daylight photos when possible.

The crypts have been compromised.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 28, 2010 10:57PM

I'm trying to understand something, as I look at the aerial photographs taken while the place was under construction. Please let me know where I'm off the track. As I understand it, the place was built above ground (or was there an excavation, and things were built below ground level?) and brick walls were built. Part of the entrance was intended to remain above ground, but there were steps leading down into the ground (?) and most of the finished place was supposed to be underground. As the work was being done, the work was in the open air, but eventually a ceiling was built and the whole thing was covered with dirt. Is this correct? Anyway, then the church decided to stop the project, and after Remey got what he wanted out of the place, the church destroyed it with bulldozers. Did the bulldozers get down into the level of construction? Did they knock over the brick walls that were at the underground level? Or did they just fill in the rooms that were below ground level? One of the problems I'm having visualizing all of this is that I don't have a sense of what this place looked like from the side -- how much was above ground, how much below ground; how much was destroyed, how much was filled in with dirt and covered up. For example the "obelisk" shows up as being at one end of the designed complex, in a round room. I gather that meant that when the complex was completed, the obelisk would have been entirely underground, is that correct? But now the obelisk is above ground, which confuses me, because I thought everything was covered over with dirt, and so I thought that everything that was constructed would have been below ground now. Never having been there I can't figure any of this out. And I'm still not clear on where Remey's vault was, in the design. Any help welcome. Thanks

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 29, 2010 07:03AM

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but the best way to clear up your confusion is to actually go there. The satellite photos helped me understand the length of the Remeum, but not the elevation. Like I said before, it was quite a climb up the side of the "plateau" that it was built on. It's easily 40 feet off the forest floor. Once on the top you'll also get a better idea of how much dirt they piled on top of that. It was probably about 6 to 8 feet judging from the base of the obelisk at the end.

Just trust me, go for yourself. It's really pretty cool to see what it once was.
Of course, see some of the above threads for the least conspicuous way in.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 29, 2010 09:29AM

Diamond D - Has that whole gotten any bigger with all the rain we have had recently?

By the way I think I ran into you out at the site a few weeks back, we were out there with the dog running around.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 29, 2010 11:18AM

Unfortunately, going there is not an option for me.

I'm further confused by your comment that it was 40 feet off the forest floor, which implies that it's elevated -- but I thought it was underground, below the level of the forest floor. Please be patient with me, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:12PM

Don't worry about it man, that's cool. You're dead-on. The whole thing is elevated 40 feet off the forest floor, and a couple of hundred feet from the end with the obelisk to the other end with the vents. That's why it was such a surprise for me, personally, when I got there and found that I had to hike up the side in order to get to it. And, yes, although the whole complex was on a plateau above the forest floor, I think the underground chambers were still about 5 or 10 feet down once you went through the main entrance to the chambers (this, however, is now about 18 below what was dumped ON TOP of the complex).

That's too bad that you're not able to make it out there. My next suggestion would be to simply soak up and enjoy all the photos and scans that have been contributed.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Gonads & Strife ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:22PM

FFXPD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have access to many things, including your IP
> address. Tread lightly, stay legal.


What a faggot
Attachments:
inet_tough_guy.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:22PM

Thanks. And according to what I've read, the obelisk and the vents are now the only things above ground.

And can you identify the location where Remey had his own vault?

I am looking at all the maps and photos, thanks again

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:34PM

Actually, I should be careful when I throw around the phrase "underground". As best as I can tell, using the photos throughout this thread as a time-line, the entrance to the Crypts was not always "underground" in the sense that you had to climb down into it.

If we're talking about circa 1950, you could walk into the Crypts like you were walking into the front door of your house, as the entrance door was level with the top of the plataeu (see Hip's photo from Feb. 22 @ 6:41pm, the doorway was between the two lions).

If we're talking about circa late 1970s, then the entrance was basically buried by the first demolition attempt and you had to crawl down inside (see the photo that Cary posted on Dec. 23 @7:01pm. This photo shows the kids crawling down inside, above what used to be the same doorway with the ironwork that you simply walked through in the 50s).

Hopefully that clears up some confusion. Sorry I don't have the computer skills to put the photos side-by-side for you.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:37PM

That's helpful

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:41PM

Honestly, I don't know where Remey wanted his body to be put (seeing as he never go the opportunity). I'd imagine close to his wife, but seeing as I was never down there I don't know where she was eithor. I'm sure someone who was down there back in the day would remember where she was. Maybe the "Remey Chapel", if I had to venture a guess.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 29, 2010 12:53PM

OK. Because two photos show a large ornate stone vault, one with a beer can in it, the other with two guys in front of it (and the beer can) and one posting said that was where Remey was to be buried. But I don't see any identification of that location. Also, in his huge 3 pages of plans (and I gather only one page of that ever got built) I don't see the location where his own grave would be.

If I read the news accounts correctly, he had the remains of family members brought to the Remeum, but then when the dispute came about with the church, he had to remove everything, and I gather all of those people were re-interred elsewhere, including his wife. I think Remey himself died in Italy and I gather is buried there. But I'm interested in where he planned for his own vault. What I'm after is this: Did he really plan this as an extravaganza for his own grave, and everybody else was decoration? Or was this really to honor his entire family, and his own spot in the scheme was just as one family member, without having a particular place of honor. My guess is that he planned the place of honor for himself, but I don't see that in the design.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 29, 2010 01:39PM

Yeah, I wish I could place alot of those old-school pictures as to exactly where in the chambers they were, but I'm too young and don't have enough details of the interior.

Some of the answers you might be looking for might be in the "Tales from the Crypt" article on page 1 of this thread. Matt seems to have done a pretty good amount of research as well as having first hand observations, since it was written back in the day. Matt covers how Remey paid tribute to his family throughout history, as well as U.S. history. Also, the plans from his book that were later posted suggest that he'd wanted to include tributes to his Baha'i faith, had the Remeum been completed according to his masterplan.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: March 29, 2010 06:27PM

Someone mentioned www.norvapics.com at the beginning of page 1 of this thread. Punch in "Remey" in the search box and there are links to 16 images. Has anyone looked at them all?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Sheriff Beauford T. Justice ()
Date: March 29, 2010 08:53PM

Son, the Fahfax po-lice done told you to stay the hell out of that there private property. If I happens to see your slack ass in theah, I will cuff you maself.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 30, 2010 07:07AM

inquirer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone mentioned www.norvapics.com at the
> beginning of page 1 of this thread. Punch in
> "Remey" in the search box and there are links to
> 16 images. Has anyone looked at them all?

Don't bother with norvapics.com. I think we actually have most of their good pictures on here anyway(thanks to skills of some of the contributors on this thread). If you wanna see anything else on their site you have to pay for it, whereas here you can get for free. If you've got money to burn, check it out and let us know what they've got...but I don't think it's any better than what on this thread.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: March 30, 2010 07:29AM

Charles Remey was to be buried in the large stone sarcophagus with the beer can on it. The date carved onto the sarcophagus matched his birth year (1874). The year of death was not complete, suggesting that he was never placed in the sarcophagus.

Other coffins and sarcophagi were emptied after burial once the fate of the Crypts was in doubt.
Attachments:
crypt964.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous Fan of Thread ()
Date: April 05, 2010 09:43PM

Awesome stuff...keep the thread going. Diamond DRex? What does compromised mean? Post pics if you can.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: April 05, 2010 10:25PM

Thanks, this is helpful. Now if I can just get an understanding of where in the design that large crypt of his was placed.
There is a 3 page drawing of the overall plan, and I think only the first page of it was ever built. It says at the top,

General Plan
The Remeum

Then at the bottom of the page it says

Entrance

and in between inside the building, it says

Cruciform Enclosure.

Was Remey's big crypt which you've shown here, in that section of the building?

Thanks

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: April 06, 2010 07:55AM

Based on the pictures from page 1 that Cary posted on December 23, 2009 at 7:01pm, it's looks to me like Remey's sarcophagus was on the left once you entered the chamber. I don't think it was that far from the entrance eithor because there's that fancy iron work propped up against the column next to it, which is the same iron work that was once on the main entrance to the chamber.

These are just my observations/guesses. I could be wrong.

Can anyone who was actually there back in the day help us out?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: April 06, 2010 10:13AM

On that drawing, there's the entrance, and above it is an empty white square; and above the empty white square is a square with a circle in it between the words "cruciform" and "enclosure". Are you saying that Remey's vault was in that room, near the empty white square?
Then over to the far left is a separate room kind of hexagonal in shape that says "Something Memorial." I can't make out the first word. Is that where the statue of Admiral and Mrs. Remey was?
Thanks

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: April 06, 2010 11:22AM

Let me help you out, because your bearings are a little off.

The area that you're referring to is OUTSIDE/OUTDOORS. The area with the word you can't read with MEMORIAL below it-that's the obelisk, which is on the other end of the complex from the Crypts.

Check out all the hard work that DiamondD-REK did on March 5th. That should clear up any confusion you might be having when reading the plans.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that Remey's personal sarcophagus was in the "Tombs" or the "Remey Chapel". But I was never there first-hand, so I couldn't tell you for sure.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: April 06, 2010 11:25AM

I ran into a buddy of mine the other night and he had his older brother with him who grew up around here in the late 70's. I mentioned the crypts to him and he said he had been in them many times. He described the place just like the pictures I have seen in this thread. He also told me that there were definitely different levels and that he remembered going down to a second and third level a few times but that most of the time everyone hung out and drank in the room we see in all the pictures. I asked him if he had any pic's from back then and he said he would look around and see if he could find any.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: inquirer ()
Date: April 06, 2010 01:22PM

Thanks, that is helpful, looking back at March 5th. So was Remey's vault in the Inner Atrium, or in the Entrance Chamber? And exactly where in that room, using Remey North, Remey South, etc?
Gratefully

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: April 07, 2010 01:21AM

alright guys, sorry i haven't been on here in a while.

1: I'll get the pics with the "no tresspassing" signs & caution tape up by friday
2: BBX: yeah that was me there when you were there as well, 3/6/10. Just me and another dude.
3: no additional digging to the hole between 3/6/10 and 3/29/10 (no tresspassing and caution tape were put up between these days)
4: All indications show CM Remey wanted to be buried there (his potential sarcophagus with unfinished dates, also pics from the obelisk's marble plaques bearing his name and unfinished dates). Obviously, it was (at least partially) demolished by the time of his death.

Here's a map & notes hopefully highlighting the general consensus of this thread. Some things may be considered obvious by veterans of this thread, but again, hopefully this paints the general picture:

1: Again, this is the general consensus, but feel free to copy and adjust if you find any discrepancies.
2: The mound in red is just my estimation. I'm horrible comapring actual distances to maps (ie surveying) so that's just my best guess. Note though that the mound starts Reast of the obelisk and ends abruptly Reast of the underground portion.
3: Obelisk = GCR/MJMR memorial (GCR/MJMR = George Collier Remey/Mary Josephine Mason Remey, Charles Mason Remey's parents; again, see pics of obelisk plaques).
4: 1956JD = 91 entrance; the hole is over the general vicinity of the entrance (a few feet differential max).
5: I have noted the survey markers that say CMR/1937. The mark Rnortheast of the planned underground portion was intentional; i did see a marker in that general vicinity.
Attachments:
confirmed.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: April 07, 2010 10:44AM

That's awesome, thanks for putting that all together and posting it. I was sort of hoping that with all of the rain we had the hole would have exposed more of that wall and we would be able to better tell what we were looking at. Sounds like they are really watching the place now, it's too bad that a couple people interested in the history of the place and seeing what it looked like are being threatened with prosecution for tramping around on an overgrown mound of dirt in the woods.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Gonads & Strife ()
Date: April 26, 2010 02:23PM



Weather is nicer now...anybody ventured out lately and taken pics?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: April 26, 2010 02:48PM

I've only been that one time after the last snow storm. Now that the weather is warmer I was picking an average of one tick a day off my dog, and that was in my front yard, so I can't imagine what kind of infestation there is at the Crypts. I know it sounds completely wussified, but the last time I got bit by one of those little bastards I thought I was gonna have to commit myself during the 5 months of the most maddening itching you can possibly fathom (No, I didn't get lyme disease).
Hopefully the church has once again forgotten it's there, and it might be safe for someone bathed in OFF to poke around and take some photos for the rest of us.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jimbo ()
Date: April 26, 2010 11:22PM

Do it!! C'mon!! Get out there!!!

We used to go out there at night, braving Stumpy, dogs, cops and fat chicks! We would hide inside the crypt, in the stale darkness,waiting for the cops to leave, as our pants filled...BAH! You know what I mean! Somebody get over there and get some pix of the place.

I'm bored!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Jerk Store ()
Date: April 27, 2010 02:02PM

I love it. The guy who has spent most of this thread attempting to goad others into trespassing can't go himself because he's afraid of ticks. Ha ha ha... Just great.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: April 27, 2010 02:11PM

I actually spent an extensive amount of time there over the winter. If you have any questions for me about the site, fire away.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: May 05, 2010 04:12PM

Hey guys, even if you think it's interesting, it's not public property, and there's nothing left to see. There's no point in going any more, it's just a waste of time. I've learned from this experience.

Start living, or start dying.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: PleasantlyWeird ()
Date: May 06, 2010 02:13AM

Bob Saget, you RUIN EVERYTHING!!! lol

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXCTYPOLICE ()
Date: May 06, 2010 07:29AM

Bob Saget is working for us now.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: May 06, 2010 07:44AM

Aawww, you sons o' bitches! You had him arrested by the female officer that was supposed to take me down, didn't you?! Do you have any idea how long I was waiting to live out the fantasy of being cuffed by a smokin' hot female cop? No wonder he's workin' for you now! Back to the cold showers for me. You Bastards!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Skavman ()
Date: May 10, 2010 07:19AM

Interesting thread. Late comer, but reading this I can confirm a lot of what has been said. I graduated Lake Braddock in 1979, and I didn't know any of the factual history as presented above, but we heard of this place called the Crypts, so visiting sounded like an adventure. In the 1970s some friends and I went there a couple of times. You crawled down/lowered yourself through some large chunks of bull-dozed rock. Inside the the place was cavernous, with many rooms, statues,etc. When I went, there were groups and kids from other high schools hanging out, Some folks had commandeered certain rooms and were sitting around in passing a bong around and drinking. It was creepy, because we always went at night, parked somewhere near the church and walked through some woods in pitch black to reach the opening. It was never a long stay, as once inside, you were in a sense trapped,if the cops showed. Additionally, you never really knew who you were going to meet walking from room to room. Someone mentioned the Pagans, which would have been a concern running into a group of people who would kick your ass for the hell of it... it was a cool experience and memory. Thanks all for posting the facts and photos.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The bradlick 7-11 gang ()
Date: May 10, 2010 10:24AM

That was us in the room. Fun on Fri & Sat night. Harmless though

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Patrick ()
Date: May 14, 2010 09:55PM

Some friends of mine and I from Gar-Field/Woodbridge used to visit there in the early 80's,around 1982-1983.We never had a problem getting in there,as the hole we would drop down was not that much of a challenge to get out of.When we entered you could move 2 directions,1 straight ahead to a rubble pile that allowed you to enter the cathedrial ceiling area or 2 to your right that would pass by the gates and end up at the rubble pile also.Dirt mounds made this difficult to pass but we were @ 17 yrs old and itdidnot matter.We found that somone hung a shepard(dog)in the passageway,kinda sick huh?
We put many candles out for light,drank beer and had good fun,met some ppl there once and soon they left.We never knew this history ,and thx for the info.
Peace to David,Fernando,Robbie,Fred,and Tom I had fun there shame it's gone :(

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: May 18, 2010 09:40PM

Hey these are pictures from 3/26/10 .... another post following..
Attachments:
018_18.JPG
020_20.JPG
021_21.JPG
023_23.JPG
024_24.JPG
025_25.JPG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: May 18, 2010 10:06PM

explanation of pictures:

The numbers in the pic show my approximate location of photos one through six, with the aim of the shot represented by the arrows.
1: looking at the spire/obelisk (note to the left of the foremost treetrunk, you can see a CMR/1937 marker).
2: Looking at the hole. In the picture, the gold and black oval is the hole. Pics 2 & 3 are aimed toward the hole.
3: Close up of hole.
4: From the middle-ish area of the cruciform enclosure... not sure where, but ballpark that area.
5: From that general area
6: Same "No Tresspassing" sign from #5, I just moved back 30-40 steps

DiamondD-REK
Attachments:
remeumafterPIX.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: kings park 1979 ()
Date: May 26, 2010 06:44PM

RotnRik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "FFXPD 0": the 'NO TRESPASSING' signs didn't stop
> us in the '70s, good luck with your surveillance!
> DON'T SHOOT ANYBODY! The Crypts (THREAT OF PAGANS
> & MUCH LESS, THE COPS) was one true THRILL of my
> childhood. The last entrance I found was about 1/2
> way down the south wall at the top edge of the
> site, that was in the early '80s. ONE LEVEL was
> all we ever found. WE WERE JUST KIDS HAVIN' FUN,
> MAN THAT JOINT WAS COOL!!!!!...RotnRik...BURKE
> BROS...
FUNNY ROTNRIK,or should we say "stanley"
you were never a burke bro

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: kingspark ()
Date: May 26, 2010 06:53PM

RotnRik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "FFXPD 0": the 'NO TRESPASSING' signs didn't stop
> us in the '70s, good luck with your surveillance!
> DON'T SHOOT ANYBODY! The Crypts (THREAT OF PAGANS
> & MUCH LESS, THE COPS) was one true THRILL of my
> childhood. The last entrance I found was about 1/2
> way down the south wall at the top edge of the
> site, that was in the early '80s. ONE LEVEL was
> all we ever found. WE WERE JUST KIDS HAVIN' FUN,
> MAN THAT JOINT WAS COOL!!!!!...RotnRik...BURKE
> BROS...
funny.... mr rick stanley from danbury forest
YOU were never one of the
Burke Bros lol

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Making_stuff ()
Date: May 26, 2010 07:35PM

This is really cool, guys. Thanks for the heads up on it.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 09:11AM

I must say im very impressed with all the work everyone has done on this.

here is my insight on the crypts.
personaly i have been there many times before most of you were born. i have sat infront of the cinder block wall after it was erected and watched as someone broke a hole threw it about the size of a basket ball. on the other side is dirt, why? because there are actually two walls of cinder block on either side of the vent. the vent was used to fill in the space with dirt. your calculations of the vents are only off by a few feet.
as for the area from the rotunda to the baha'i sanctuary,
its all there!
on either side of the baha'i sanctuary there are spiral stair cases leeding to lower levels.
the whole structure was made of brick, so why the cinderblock wall?
it was put there after two girls got lost down in the lower levels and didnt make it out alive.
how can this be verified?
in gmu hokie's feb 19 2010 post it was said that 15 were disintered from the crypt
but his wife was left, thats 16 and he ( mr remy) would have had a place for himself too, thats 17 that we know of.
you guys are smart i can tell, so if the cinderblock wall is the end, where did they keep all those bodys?
now that being said, look at the plans, if its all there i still only count 8 tombs. plus, when building something like this you plan for the future and future burials, correct?
so if there were 17 ,at least, then we know the full first level past the wall exists. if so, so do the spiral stair cases leeding to lowerlevels where 7 more bodys were placed.
i do wish you luck,
even my 17year old after reading all this said, " i wanna go"
even if the entrance chamber still exists ,intact, or hasnt been backfilled with dirt. you still have to get threw the cinderblock walls past the first tombs.

if you do get down there,
and i actualy hope you do
and you make it past the wall,
do yourselfs a favor and take a few small parakeets in cages, the air might be really bad so you know when to get out.
another hint, if your going to dig a hole take a few plywood boards and some hard as nails glue out there and camo the holes so they cant be found by covering the boards with glue and then dirt and leaves and branches.
oh and leave a note for someone just incase you dont return and it ends up being your resting place.
hope i was of some what help
good luck keep posting id love to see if you make it

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: May 27, 2010 10:10AM

Let make sure I understand what you're saying. When they were demolishing The Crypts, they took the time to dump dirt down a couple of 9"x9" flu-tiles to fill in chambers below that were at least 15 feet deep and 12 feet across?! Not to mention that I had to climb up the side of the vent and wedge my upper body inside just to get a peep down the flus, so how would you get all that dirt down there? Do you have any idea how long that would take and how big of a pain in the ass it would be? They sure as hell didn't take the tops of the vents off, that's apparent from the recent trips we've made out there.

And as for your claim about the 2 girls that got lost down there, there was nothing mentioned in Hokie's post about them. You need to provide evidence of both the lower levels, and the missing girls (I think we would have heard about the girls LONG ago). If kids had gone missing down there, this county wouldn't have just sealed the place up and knocked down a few walls, there would be a huge patch of asphalt, level with the forest floor where The Crypts had once been (this is Fairfax County for Christ's sake, their children are the salt of the Earth as far as they're concerned. They would then also make it a felony to even talk about The Crypts from that day forth).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 12:01PM

Doubt my information if you will
but i have actually been down there.
have you?
if you make it to the cinderblock wall you will see the hole and the dirt on the other side. then you tell me how dirt gets filled between two walls if not the vent.

this was done long long before everything was covered up as you see it today.
to quote you the sculler
"we're talking about circa late 1970s, then the entrance was basically buried by the first demolition attempt"
i was there from 1975 - 1980
i saw it all
how old were you then?

just a question what do you see at the bottum of the vent?
go to page 3 march 7th 2 pictures from diamond d rex took 3/16/10
its not only beer cans is it?
so how did the dirt get there?
i never said it was done with a backhoe but one shovel at a time.
whether this is true doesnt matter till you get there then its your problem to solve.
its not a big wall length wise is it. look at the 4th picture on page 1 posted by cary dec 23/ 09
there are no other cinderblock walls in the structure
im not here to argue
i still dont hear any explanation of where the 16 bodys were kept
one vault was empty marked 1874- 19 that was his. the other vault in the other room was hers which they left till she was moved to pohick church.
so who were the 15? where did they lay in the remeum? we have record of them being moved to ny in countless articles.
my posts are ment to help
i would dare to say i bet there are thousands who have sat in there who would agree with me.
oh yes that is fairfax county but did you live there in the 1970's?
about the two girls.
look for what you can, if there is record of it, it will be on micrifiche.
but then we are not here to disprove the two girls or the pagans who took them there are we?
your here to actually get in where ive been. right?
you will, if, you get to the first tombs you will want to see whats behind the wall many have tried.
i have no reason to lie
im just glad to see someone remembers
i do admire the research you have done.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 12:36PM

oh and yes thats exactly what fairfax county would do in 1968.
try to keep it quiet so more kids wouldnt go there and get hurt.
call in Architects to advise them to wall the major part up till she can be moved.

Federal District Court in 1968 gave Remey until April 1973 to remove anything he wanted from the mausoleum, thereafter ownership reverted to the church. Relatives had 15 burials removed to Pompey, N. Y., and by 1973, the year the building was demolished, only Remey's wife GERTRUDE was still there. Her remains were reinterred at Pohick Church before demolition began.
theres a 6 year gap
its all very sad if you think of it the woman took her own life in the first year of there marrage. no wonder he didnt want to move here.

thus the wall was put up between where her tomb (mrs remy) and the others
untill he buried her at pohick church. the front was bulldozed to block the entrance. but unlike every article says it wasnt demolished the first time, or the second time.
they are not going to turn it into a parking lot its private property and pohick church doesnt have that kind of money.
they cover it up and hope it goes away, there politicians, come on that's what they all do.
but it didnt go away and we all got in agian, just as you try now.
so they covered it up better and it worked for a while,
till now.
i dont make this stuff up

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: May 27, 2010 01:05PM

I tend to believe the multiple level theory since I have heard about them existing from my friends older brother and another friends older sister who actually first told us about this place. They both claim that there were multiple levels accessed by sets of stairs, next time I talk to them I will inquire as to whether they remember these being spiral stair cases or what.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 01:26PM

sculler, your proof that you need
is called process of elimination.
you eliminate the 15 bodys and where there were kept in the crypt.
then i will eliminate the claim of the fact backed up by the plans that something exists behind the wall.
you dont bury 15 bodys in two tombs
you just cant brush away 15 bodys quoted in :

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/branches/vr/cem/cem100.htm

you wish to think its a cosy two person crypt its up to you.

from what ive read so far it looks like everyone here is insearch of fact and truth.

you just cant find a place for those 15 now can you?

people build these things for future and past family members.
are there lower levels?
up to you to find out
but you tell me when you get to that wall, your going to stop?
will you go further?
post a pic when you get there.
we all want to see.
now stop typeing and dig.
or walk away and wonder the rest of your life.
im on your side i hope you make it
if you dont die trying or get caught.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 01:44PM

thankyou BB*X
i have never seen the plans before coming to this web sight
look for the two round things that look like steps on either side of the baha'i sanctuary, remy east, on all of the plans posted here.
some wont believe anyway.

i say, "dig and find out if you doubt"

for me its one of those been there done that your turn things.
talks cheap start digging

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: May 27, 2010 02:40PM

TombRaider, you've made your point very clear: I doubted you and there's only way to know for sure...dig. I understand.

I won't be digging, not in the near future. My hat's off to those who have, you're ballsier than I am.

As for the multiple levels: a couple of people who've been down there (not myself, obviously) had said there was only one, and I had accepted that as truth after some reasoning and tales of Pagans throwing dynomite down there (which would lead to believe that everything would have collapsed in on itself). But now that I've taken a step back and reconsidered, the entire structure is in fact on a plateau that's a good 30 feet high. Could it be hollow and contain multiple levels? Now that I've reconsidered, sure, why not? It seems like it could be possible.

As for the missing girls: now that I know that the Pagans were possibly involved in their dissappearance, it's likely they weren't really missed.

As for the 15 or so bodies that were down there at one point: I'm honestly not to concerned about them, I'm really only interested with what's down there now. Judging from the diagram that Jr007 put all that hard work into, the underground portion that was accessible back in the day seems like it would hold that many, but I've never been so I don't know.

I guess I'll bite on the "one shovel at a time" idea of them filling the chambers through the flues, but it just seems to me like it would've made more sense just to collapse the whole thing.

So I apologize if I offended you when I doubted you, I just rely heavily on hard evidence. And as you've noted, this thread is pretty long and full of quite alot of claims, so establishing fact from fiction has gotten kind of exhausting for those that are really into it. However, you could argue that I'm not one to establish anything since I've never been down there and don't intend on digging. I try and contribute through this thread with what I can find on the internet and the time I spent out there back in March, but I don't have the time or the balls to dig. It seems pretty dangerous for someone armed with only a shovel.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 02:56PM

food for thought:
it took from 1939-1948 to build the remeum
more than 2 million bricks
thats 9 long years

if theres not more, what took 9 years?

the empire state building only took 1 year 45 days

Remey was an architect of international reputation.
come on guys a two room crypt would have took him 6 months to a year at most if even that.
9 years?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 03:28PM

i agree with you sculler.
in my time in highschool i could have easly got 10 teens out there at night to dig it up. in fact thats how it was done the first time.
the 15 are important because there arent that many tombs on the first level.
secondly you must factor in the 9 years to build.
i will say this im a old guy now, but if you do make it down there ever. i promise you will remember that place till the day you die.
i have watched many a person freak out down there,
you can not see your hand in front of your face. your light goes out and god help you getting out. there is no sound. and every sound you do hear will make your hair stand straight up and if you have never smelled death you will smell it there.
this was a beautiful place violated, a place of eternal rest for at least 16 people, one of whom committed suicide. this is no place for the faint at heart.

scary is quite the understatment


no offence taken by me
i hope you get to experience it

this is where we hung out

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: 496 ()
Date: May 27, 2010 03:50PM

Tomb,

You seem to be a person who may have done alot of drugs in his time. Am I on target here?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 05:48PM

sorry 496 you would be very far from your target.

even growing up in the 60's and 70s i never got into the drug thing any more than anyone else my age. i did watch many a friend destroy there life with drugs.
most people that i knew that did drugs smoked a joint or drank beer at a party on weekends once in a while and trust me they all did it. this all pales in comparison to todays standards.
we never saw the crack or heroin or cocaine or ice that the kids are into today
we spend most of our time taking girls to the crypts back then.
it was a lot less expensive than a horror movie and a hundred times more scary.
funny but you might be surprised at just how many knew and went there.
everyone knew about the dark history it had, where today you may be the only kids who know. this was a overwhelmingly popular place.
you dont ask your brothers or sisters about it ,
you ask your parents, maybe they did a lot of drugs
they were the ones who were there. it was 30-40 years ago

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 27, 2010 06:06PM

oh by the way 496:
ive read a few of your posts elsewhere you seem to have a lot of nothing to say.
you seem to have quite a lot of time on your hands too.
2824 posts wow,
are you going for a record?
others have been respectful to each other
lets try to keep it that way

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: May 28, 2010 07:09AM

I overlooked/forgot that it took 9 years to build (there's a helluva lot of info on this thread, I can't keep track). But you bring up another good point when you take into account that it took 9 years to construct and that the whole structure is so high off the forest floor. The combination of the two facts would make it likely that there could be multiple levels, I should've considered it before.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: May 28, 2010 08:03AM

if i were planing to dig. i would start at the rnorth/reast end near what was called the st. andrew chapel. if you find a wall there and break threw its on the far side of the mound from the church where you have less chance to be seen and you will be going in a area that was allways covered and farthest away from any bulldozer damage/cave in. you then may just walk into a part rarely seen by many and therfore bypassing the cinderblock wall alltogether. could'nt be to hard to find if you use long metal rods to probe threw the soil till you find the structure underneith, marking what you have found as you go.then the outline will be aparent. start at the vents and probe outward a few feet at a time.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brain ()
Date: June 04, 2010 06:26PM

Just an observation. Am I correct to say that the original lay of the land was pretty flat? The aerial photos would indicate that the Remeum complex (as it sat) was originally at one overall elevation. If the memorial towers base is the basic original elevation for the entire complex, then it should be possible to take an elevation survey that could tell you how much earth was heaped onto the main burial structure - since the first attempt to bury it. Also, if you can get an accurate height measurement of the tower you should be able to use it as a guideline for distances and locations. Would it be possible to take GPS readings at some of the main points in the area, especially at the tower and vent chimneys? And then to figure out where these points are on a map?

Why would they have heaped more earth onto the location of the structure when they supposedly went in to demolish it. You would have thought they would have taken the property back down to the original surface elevation. Why do half a job. And why leave the vent chimneys if everything else was destroyed? Instead of demolishing the structure it appears they may have gone back and finished the job of burying it. Why bulldoze 10 more feet of earth onto the top of a leveled demolition, far above the surrounding land? It makes no sense to me.

If the original plot of land the Remeum sat on was flat, then take elevation readings to see how high the mound is off the original level. This will tell you if a 20? foot high structure might be buried there, under 10 feet of earth.

No digging required, and would reveal a wealth of information fairly safely. Take your binoculars and a GPS and do some innocent birdwatching.


Is the mound over the Remeums original location 30 feet higher than the original surface level?....................Cheers

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: June 07, 2010 10:57AM

everyone keeps asking, "why would they cover over the structure instead of just bulldozing it down"?
some useful history might be helpful to all of you.
when the motorcycle gang "the pegans" originaly got in that place they destroyed and desecrated it.
they destroyed caskets and vaults with bodys in them. there were small BONES and small pieces of marble scattered everywhere. the family was able to recover only partial remains of 15 bodys some of which were in urns as ashes. there are still parts of remains still in the tomb itself.

it is still a active grave that, by law, they are not able to destroy.
so it was covered over. the land wont be sold or destroyed, they just hope it will be forgotten and whats left will rest in peace.

if memory serves me well , and it was a very long time ago, walking into the woods from rt. 1 you gradually walked down into a v shaped crevasse at the mouth of the v was the entrance and the majority of the tomb was originaly dug in tward the point of the v and then buryed upon completion.it was 30 feet high at the entrance and had five underground levels tward the rear past the calvary corridor down two spiral stair cases flanking the baha'i sanctuary. the vents are the top of the original mound which was extended later on tward the obolisk. (see v shape shaded area in enclosed picture)

from what i can see by the pictures that were took here, what was burried is the open courtyard and main entrance out to the obolisk.
of course i have not been there last since the late 70s early 80s. hope i was somewhat helpful.
Attachments:
Crypt.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Why ()
Date: June 13, 2010 12:02AM

Anyone know why Bob Saget removed his posts from this thread and the urban exploration thread? I read them all night and missed some good pics. Did he get in some trouble?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Maverick ()
Date: June 13, 2010 09:43AM

I'm the guy holding the flashlight in the newspaper article posted earlier. It was after midnight around 1980-81? We just walked in with our lights off and the guy who had been there before (Chris J.) knew the barking dogs were tied up so it was nothing to worry about. The pictures show pretty much all there was to see. We decended into the main hallway and there were a few rooms and platforms where coffins would have been layed to rest. The large sarcophagus was really the only thing to see down there. I don't remember it being as large an underground structure as some of the diagrams here indicate. We only explored a few rooms. If there was more it had already been sealed off or didn't exist in the first place. The whole place was falling down back then so whatever's left underground has got to be extremely unstable. I hope they filled it in to prevent a collapse. Even then there was nothing of value down there. The artwork had all been destroyed or defaced and the structure was falling apart. It was dangerous then and, if there is any chamber left open underground it's certainly a death trap today. Be careful.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: hmmmm ()
Date: June 13, 2010 12:08PM

Why Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone know why Bob Saget removed his posts from
> this thread and the urban exploration thread? I
> read them all night and missed some good pics.
> Did he get in some trouble?
I agree. What's up w/Bob. I'd love to see this place

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: hmmmm ()
Date: June 13, 2010 12:10PM

Why Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone know why Bob Saget removed his posts from
> this thread and the urban exploration thread? I
> read them all night and missed some good pics.
> Did he get in some trouble?

I agree. What's up w/Bob. I'd love to see this place

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Contros of the Star Quyzest ()
Date: June 14, 2010 02:37AM

Shit brain indefinite! Intestinal logic gives the mind the food of Qyzar. Antidotes are a given practice in our culture but the clause of humanity states we as a people must beholden to the starship of Mother Quyzar. She make it all okay and the rings of Saturn bless us fruitfully and fitfully. And yes, we drink the urine of our loins,and it gives good delight in health store. It is a true fact. The Brothers of Quyzar all live the same age for eternity. Bless the rings of Saturn! Give unto the space breeze we blow heretofore. Cunning are the warlocks of earth. Keep watch for the mongoose neck. It despises your inner sanctum and will cut to your quick if you speak ill of your love for Quyzar.

I believe in the truth of the Fairfax. We are beginning of a new generation. We begin here in the Fairfax with the blessing of the rings of Saturn. The darlings living amongst us with Quyzar rings for delight. Dancing in merriment without shoes. And giving alms to the brothers of Quyzar. This we do constantly and forever.

We will explore the Remey Crypt with the blessing of Quyzar. The rings of Saturn will protect us from church beings and all that prohibit the sealing of our fate in these crypts of paradise. Give happiness to a man and the ceiling of his surrounding will be painted with everlasting sperm of life. We will depart for explorations soon as of the yesterday. The abandoned Remey crypts will be our life. We will explore and return with love and spread forthcoming pictures of our venture in the end times of Saturn ring no. 3. With outstretched arms we ask that Quyzar give us courage to enliven the crypt that must be ours.

With protection of the blessings, the walls of Remey crypt will face the burden of our love. Only with Quyzar may we perfect in richness and impart this mission with the gathering of the ghost of Master Remey, now inhabitant halterest of the cronos of star Quyzest. He is with us. And we shall bestow light to the darkness below.

With thankful silence to those advice of the REmey crypt. Sincerely, brothers of the Fairfax, Quyzar Tradition.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Contros of the Star Quyzest ()
Date: June 14, 2010 02:39AM

Conquest destiny undone! Intestinal logic gives the mind the food of Qyzar. Antidotes are a given practice in our culture but the clause of humanity states we as a people must beholden to the starship of Mother Quyzar. She make it all okay and the rings of Saturn bless us fruitfully and fitfully. And yes, we drink the urine of our loins,and it gives good delight in health store. It is a true fact. The Brothers of Quyzar all live the same age for eternity. Bless the rings of Saturn! Give unto the space breeze we blow heretofore. Cunning are the warlocks of earth. Keep watch for the mongoose neck. It despises your inner sanctum and will cut to your quick if you speak ill of your love for Quyzar.

I believe in the truth of the Fairfax. We are beginning of a new generation. We begin here in the Fairfax with the blessing of the rings of Saturn. The darlings living amongst us with Quyzar rings for delight. Dancing in merriment without shoes. And giving alms to the brothers of Quyzar. This we do constantly and forever.

We will explore the Remey Crypt with the blessing of Quyzar. The rings of Saturn will protect us from church beings and all that prohibit the sealing of our fate in these crypts of paradise. Give happiness to a man and the ceiling of his surrounding will be painted with everlasting sperm of life. We will depart for explorations soon as of the yesterday. The abandoned Remey crypts will be our life. We will explore and return with love and spread forthcoming pictures of our venture in the end times of Saturn ring no. 3. With outstretched arms we ask that Quyzar give us courage to enliven the crypt that must be ours.

With protection of the blessings, the walls of Remey crypt will face the burden of our love. Only with Quyzar may we perfect in richness and impart this mission with the gathering of the ghost of Master Remey, now inhabitant halterest of the cronos of star Quyzest. He is with us. And we shall bestow light to the darkness below.

With thankful silence to those advice of the REmey crypt. Sincerely, brothers of the Fairfax, Quyzar Tradition.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Maverick ()
Date: June 14, 2010 05:31PM

I went out there to look around yesterday afternoon. It looks to me like the tomb was knocked down a little and then covered over. Looks a lot like an Indian burial mound. It's overgrown a lot from the latest pictures posted here and the area with the yellow tape that protects the open hole is easy to miss. Picked up a lot of tics too. Not much to see other than the monument with the cross on it and the dedication plaques.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: TombRaider ()
Date: June 15, 2010 04:16PM

For all those wondering what the vents at the top of the mausoleum are for.
here is your answer:

The remains inside will continue to decompose. Decomposition releases gasses and fluids. The pressure from decomposition by-products will leach out . Even a sealed vault won’t be able to withstand the pressure of gas buildup over time. A properly sealed vault with a drainage and vent system will help avoid property damage, health hazards and psychological trauma that no doubt will come from a collapse or blow out.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Remyghost ()
Date: June 16, 2010 10:59AM

Go to "the library of congress" in d.c.
many things can be found AND PHOTOGRAPHED.

REMEUM:
http://lccn.loc.gov/58003332


CS71.R386 1954 (Case X) [P&P] Copy 1

unearth the truth !

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Remyghost ()
Date: June 16, 2010 12:52PM

The mystery yet to be solved is a strange death of

Gertrude Heim Klemm mason remy

for whome the remeum was built

why did charles's life fall apart after?
and so with it the remeum !

why does he not lie next to his loving bride of one year in pohick church cemetary?

why does he lay next to his young secretary in florence italy at the age of 99?

some interesting reading :o

http://www.fictionaut.com/stories/matt-briggs/a-well-dressed-woman-of-recent-
times.pdf

some ghosts of the past never rest in peace
Attachments:
gertrude.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Remyghost ()
Date: June 16, 2010 01:03PM

www.fictionaut.com/stories/matt-briggs/a-well-dressed-woman-of-recent-times.pdf

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Visitor ()
Date: July 16, 2010 03:18PM

I lived in Lorton for a short time during jr. high school. We used to walk up to this place and down the dirt road entrance. It was probably around 1980. It had been bulldozed by then but you could crawl through two holes near the tops of the large doors. You then had to crawl down into they crypt. We encountered people in there from time to time drinking and smoking pot and hanging out. Everyone was friendly--as long as you weren't the cops! People knew it was a place which attracted curiosity seekers.

It's a shame that place wasn't restored and preserved. It would have been a good place to get away for quiet thinking/meditation/prayer away from the hustle and bustle of DC life. I think Pohick Church missed a golden opportunity. They probably could have gotten private and federal and state grants to do the work and then charged a fee for entrance. Could have been a money-maker for them.

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The Remey Crypy in 1980
Posted by: nrhader ()
Date: September 28, 2010 07:35PM

I recall the Remey Crypt in 1980, access was through a wall at a cemetery, you needed to climb on top of the wall, and then with ladders (which were already there), you climbed down into the crypt.

Everyone in our highschool knew of this place, I used to explore what little I could, as I remember the first stop was a room with nothing, the second one back was a room with a round table (coated with candlewax) and beautiful artwork on the walls.

After that it was against advice to proceed any further.

The cops loved to ruin it for people. to this day I remember hearing one of my friends calling me to come back out, when I did the Police were there and asked me how many people were inside, my friend had been pulled out by the police a few minutes earlier, I told them that I was exploring nobody else was there, this of course was not true, we had 5 people still hanging out in the second room.

The cops were pretty smart, they called down there and they tried to sound like me, these words ring immortal "Hey Guys Mark got some beer and bonghits"

The people inside were not paying attention, we didn't talk like that, instead they started to come up the ladder and as they did a search and arrest was waiting.

Today's been a strange day, for some reason I thought about this place, I was coming up blank on searches and finally found this website, if I knew the official name it would have been better.

To me the Remey Crypt was an awesome party place, the first place I had my first beer, first girl, and oh so many friends.

As an adult I'd pay money to look in there, too bad they sealed it up, I recall the news coming over that "Pegans were using it and the police set off Dynamite to seal the entrance".

For all the people who live near there, don't let the place end up a forgotten memory, always pass the stories along.

-- Nick

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: mattttttttttttttttttt ()
Date: September 29, 2010 02:08AM

So whats the link to that photobucket album?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: October 02, 2010 12:43AM

see, i'm not a cop and i can call myself FFXPD too. it's actually FCPD dipshit fake cop.
anyways. for all you people who want to excavate, for the fake cop i'm going to say I WON'T so he wont call the police with his rape whistle. anyways. i examined the structural diagrams of the building and i have determined that the remy crypt was PRACTICALLY INDESTRUCTABLE at the time it was 'demolished' first. after a long time underground a section of the roof gave way and created the pit surrounded by the caution tape. the mere fact that there was a cave in proves that the remy crypt is still very much intact and has not been filled completely or even mostly with dirt or rubble. the size of the cave in was quite extensive. five feet wide square and ten deep.
the air vent filled with dirt is easily explainable. the room beneath the air vent is not filled in. to make burrying the vents posible metal caps are welded over the bottom so dirt will not filter down. it is also to prevent wildlife from infesting the subterrainian structure. over time sediment and such gathered in the air vent. dust from moving heavy machinery around could easily account for that, i also found a beercan from 1995 in the top of one.
the second 'demolishion' as they call it was actually a very minor change. they only plowed a couple tons of dirt over the '91' entrance. the tower still stands in the middle of the woods which suggests to me that no demolishion took place during either of the 'demolisions'. if the church didnt want people trespassing on thier property, which is perfectly legal btw because a church is a public area. then they would have gotten rid of the awesome tower in the woods that several THOUSAND people have visited since the crypt was burried.
despite the fact that the remium is almost definitely intact beneath the ground i believe it should remain buried for several reasons
1. the structural integrity is questionable due to being buried for several decades
2. it serves as a warning to other excentric rich people who want to build a tomb bigger than my dick
3. unless it was fully restored and secured it would just relapse back into a hangout where people smoked pot and drank beer. in modern fairfax county nobody needs that. if it were in VArun or woodbridge then it would be a different story
all in all the remy crypts are a forgotten thing old enough to fade from memory but new enough to not be historic. though i take much interest in circa WWII tombs i must use judgement to say that it would be foolish to spend millions of dollars to excavate somthing that represents a waste of millions of dollars

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Blackbeard ()
Date: October 04, 2010 06:30PM

One way to determine if multiple levels exist or existed is with Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR). Used to determine objects buried at different depths. It also would show where/if the ground had previously been disturbed. So even if the entire crypt was caved in - you would still be able to determine the levels. Expensive but you could probably get someone local to come out or find a University with an archeology department.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Prothal ()
Date: October 12, 2010 02:47PM

I could spent a week reading all this thread. I stumbled in here while trying to find info on a place we used to call the "Crypt" back in the 70s. I've told stories to folks here in Texas about how we explored that place, most thought I lied. It's great to see SO many people interested in it.

BTW as of page 3 of this thread the 2nd pic. titled blue1.jpg is accurate. The inset referred to as "91" was the entrance we used but was not so overgrown then. I visited there at least 3 times between 74'& 77' and those 3 shots attributed to a High School web site look like they may have been shot by a friend of mine. As far as the unground entrance location it would be 30-40 ft SSW from the brick vents in a straight line towards the obelisk and of course down a slope. In my day that was the northern wall of the inner atrium so we had to walk around. keep in mind the the 1st underground chamber was on ground level and the hill covering appeared man made about 30' high. One had to climb up a pile of rubble pushed there by bulldozers slip under the top of a archway then climb down the other side thru a smaller archway. My memories of the 70s are quite fuzzy as you might imagine but I will never forget THAT place. We only had to contend with tall grass & weeds with a few small trees near the walls. The pic PohickCrypts1.jpg is very much how it was then except without so much growth. Just as you guys are.. we were VERY interested in that cinder block wall inside, when we saw it, it looked VERY new, also only the southern most vent was visible in the ceiling near that wall. That meant the other vent went to a chamber behind the wall weather finished or not. If one takes into account however the size of the mound before all those trees cover it, it's obvious the under ground part should be twice the size of what we explored, BUT certainly no where NEAR as large as shown in the plans. As far sub-levels any entrance to such would have had to be behind the new wall.. AND there was no large slab anywhere that could have concealed one. The post earlier by someone who claims to have covered just such a hole was smoking something stronger than we had! LOL! Like I said earlier.. I went there multiple times, on one trip we took light cameras & strobe equipment and shot at least one roll of film AND had a very scary event happen on another trip. I'll post more about that later if this thread remains alive.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hayfield Harry ()
Date: November 09, 2010 12:20AM

Washington DC November 8th, 2010

I was a freshmen in 1971 at TC Williams HS in Alexandria and after that year we moved to Hayfield Farms off Telegraph Road across from Hayfield HS. My junior year there was a big fuss by the Seniors because the Pohick Church had demolished the entrance to the underground part of the 'Crypts.'

Alot of kids from Hayfield, Lee, Edison, Groveton, and Mt. Vernon used to party there. There was a dumpy motel, I think they called it a Motor Court where Telegraph Road connected to Route 1 across from the Church. You could literally rent a room for an hour if you looked old enough. Then, about maybe half a football filed south on Route 1 was an old country store that was right at the corner of Pohick Road and Route One.

About a mile down on the right side was the Moose Lodge and further up on the left just past Gunston Road was the old Hillbilly Heaven Bar/Dive that old Earl Dixon owned. His daughter Donna was in one of my classes. She later married Dan Aykroyd.

The Pagans never partied anywhere near the Crypts but ironically had a club house about a half a mile south on Route One towards the turn off for Lorton Road. Their hang out was a bar up Route One near where Backlick Road intersected with Route One in the Tiny village of Accotink which still exists near the Woods Gate to Fort Belvioir. The name of the bar was the Belvoir Grill. Its now just a vacant lot.

In fact, the Pagans would gas up at the Hess Station that was on the intersection of Backlick and Route One.

The Crypts could only be gotten into by the entrance crawling through and down into the first chamber. There was only that area of 5 rooms and at the back was the cinder-block wall which someone had punched a hole in, not big enough to crawl through, but you might be able to stick your arm through. There was space behind it, but no telling how far or deep it was.

Stumpy was always prowling around on the weekends especially. He did carry and old shotgun with rock salt as more than one person ended up with a sore butt or back from getting shot at. Of course you also had to out run his mutts.

Hard to believe that all this time has gone by. yeah, I too partied in the Crypts, it was a rite of passage back then just like outrunning Fairfax cops in the huge gravel pits behind Hayfield H. S. Often times we end up over on Beluah Road by that 7 11.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: darkstar ()
Date: November 12, 2010 01:22PM

I lived in the Lorton area back in the 1970's and attended Hayfield H.S. I went to the Remey Crypts a few times.

I have three photos of the place that I took in 1978 with an old 110 Instamatic Camera. I do not know how much help they will be but I thought I would add them to the topic.

Earlier in this topic I saw where someone mentioned the Hugononts engraving that was located within one of the brick walls of the courtyard. The first photo depicts that engraving. The other two photos were taken while sitting on top of a mound of dirt that had been pushed there to conceal the crypts below. From where I was sitting I had my legs dangling over the wall that overlooked the courtyard. Behind me would have been the entrance hole where people were going into the crypt at that time.

As you can see in the photos the bulldozing of the place had begun to take some of the outside pillars down and a huge mound of dirt was piling up and beginning to drain off into the courtyard. The fill dirt is mixed with trash, concrete, bricks and mortar.

Someone mentioned the little store located on the corner of Route 1 and Pohick Road that was called the "Quick Stop Market". It still had the same name the last time I was in the area back in 1998.

I went to high school with a guy who lived on Route 1 almost across the street from Pohick Church. He went in the Crypt many, many times. When I came upon this topic I phoned his widow who told me that he had ventured way back inside the crypt. Further than I ever went. She said she never went as far as he did but she said he did mention there were additional rooms but she couldn't recall if he ever mentioned the crypt having multiple levels.

I remember one story that I was told back in the 1970's. Supposedly there was a glass coffin inside an oval shaped room. There was a body inside the coffin and he was dressed in uniform and had a sword. Someone broke the glass and the body turned to dust. The person who broke the glass coffin made off with the sword. Personally, I never saw this glass coffin or the remains of it but that was one of the stories that was passed around.

I appreciate all of the photos and research that people have posted on this thread. Very interesting!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 10:01PM by darkstar.
Attachments:
Remey Crypt 001.png
Remey Crypt 002.png
Remey Crypt 003.png

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hayfield Farm Gun Club ()
Date: November 13, 2010 12:31PM

This is an amazing thread! I moved to the area in the late 80s and was into weirdness in general. Where I grew up before VA, we had all sorts of cool crap to explore in the mountains and jungles, but in VA all we ever explored was the bunnyman bridge, some creepy abandoned houses in PWC, and someplace in Clifton that people (erroneously, I think) called a POW camp. We never knew about anything as incredible as these crypts.

Thanks to everyone who has posted stories, analysis, and photographs. Truly great stuff here. It saddens me to think that such a wonderful structure was demolished.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: December 12, 2010 11:54PM

WASHINGTON DC
DEC 12 2010

I am a freelance journalist who is writing a story about urban legends and ran across this forum and its accompanying threads quite by accident.

I've completely fascinated by this tale & have started to research it. My first stop was The Virgina Room, of the Fairfax City Library which contains interestingly enough a good deal of material on not only Mr. Charles Remey, but the 'Remeum' as well.

Apparently this gentleman was a rather significant player in the Washington DC high society set in the 1930's & 40's. The Mansion he built for himself is now the home of the Embassy of Mexico's Cnahcery Annex & ambassador's residence on Massachusetts Avenue NW near DuPont Circle. His father, Admiral Remey and his mother along with his brother-in-law, are buried in Section 15, at Arlington National Cemetery.

Further research at the Library of Congress also turned up some interesting facts. One of which was that the blueprints for the Tomb & Mausoleum still exist and the complete set are retained by the Baha'i Sect he belonged to in Florence, Italy, where he died in 1974 just short of his 100th birthday.

What I have been able to establish is that the tomb is huge, and while 3 levels is not levels as one would think of in terms of stay traditional stories. Rather it is a set of three levels in gradual elevation not unlike say a swimming pool which progresses from a shallow to a deep end. I've been able to verify that access was in fact blocked by the spring of 1968 to the deeper recesses of the Remeum thus the portions that you witness seeing here in the pictures coupled with the stories would have been at the leading edge of "shallow" end if you will near the main entrance.

Once I have been able to fully realise the extent of my research I'll write the story and then post it here. I intend to also leave a copy of it with the Fairfax City Public Library along with a Creative Commons Copyright Licence for thsoe interested in republishing or posting it elsewhere.

If you have any information, pictures, documentation, that you'd like to share with me or swap sources, please feel free to contact me at theroadtraveler@gmail.com.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Service
Washington DC

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hayfield Farm Gun Club ()
Date: December 16, 2010 06:20PM

Brody:

This is good to hear. I look forward to reading your article.

What other stories or places are you writing about?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:41AM

+1

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: William Howard Taft ()
Date: December 17, 2010 06:25PM


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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Date: December 23, 2010 06:49PM

Just a thought.. I noticed the cleared areas in the 1960's images don't show any clearing other than what was done directly around the visible structure. I wonder if Remey's sketch is not meant to be a linear blueprint, but is instead a blowout view of both floors meant to be stacked on a light table, either the underground layer was to be cut free and rotated to line up, or simply folded under.. Because if so, that might mean the entire structure does exist, and it would account for all the time and materials reported.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2010 06:53PM by William Howard Taft.
Attachments:
Remey Layers 2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hayfield Farm Gun Club ()
Date: December 23, 2010 09:54PM

Shit...

In the context of traditional church architecture, that actually makes more sense than the two forming a linear structure. The linear presentation is so off balance and architecturally jarring.

The cruciform layout lines up perfectly: transepts as well as the apses. The red side makes far more sense as a crypt level.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Date: December 24, 2010 04:07AM

I agree completely, "architecturally jarring" is perfect to describe what I was feeling.. Lo, I have produced a better version.
Attachments:
Remeum Detail Folded.jpg
Remeum Detail Rotation.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Date: December 24, 2010 04:10AM

I first heard about "the crypt" in high school, probably 1993. I was at a friend's house in the Marumsco area of Woodbridge, his mom told us about it when I was driving her someplace. She was definitely the type who would have hung out with the bad boys in the 70's so now I imagine she might have been in there a few times. She said there was a "platinum boat" floating in a pool of water at the bottom of a really huge deep crypt somewhere in Fairfax. The challenge to scare the hell out of people was to have them walk all the way to the bottom past all the dead people with just a candle. It sounded sort of over the top and local-legendy to me, but she kind of half heartedly said "no man, it was really there", and left it at that..

Jump forward a few years and I discovered the existence of "The Remeum" while looking for info about the earlier Occoquan Pohick Church in the Virginiana room at PWC Central. I went out to Pohick with my girlfriend and we puttered around in the cemetery a bit. While we were checking out the carvings on the doorposts the caretaker came out. He liked that I was into the history, so he showed us around the inside of the church and pointed out a few of the interesting bits, talked about the days it was used as a horse stable, said they'd accidentally dug up quite a lot of people building the annex several years back. I said I'd heard there was a fantastic mausoleum somewhere on the grounds with beautiful statues, but it had been vandalized and was demolished. I had no idea at that point there was actually a significant structure, I thought it had been more like a walled garden with a gazebo.. He said "oh no, it's all still there--we just buried it." THAT statement is what really got me interested.

I never really felt much of a serious connection between that story and this mausoleum until I found this thread and saw the pictures and architectural drawings. Now I'm thinking maybe that Platinum Boat might have been a lead casket, way back beyond the cinder block wall.. Or something weirder..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2010 04:11AM by William Howard Taft.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hayfield Farm Gun Club ()
Date: December 24, 2010 08:43AM

Aha! Note the spiral staircases at either side of the sanctuary. Staircases can only mean one thing.

Have you poked around any churches in Europe? Or locally, the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in DC (or even cooler the monastery down the road from it with its crypt level, catacombs, and its mosaic skeletons). This is a pretty classic crypt level, which makes sense given Remey's time abroad.

He was a well-regarded architect and I think the logical layout is that the blueprints represent multiple levels. Excellent work, Taft.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: G ()
Date: December 24, 2010 10:19AM

Interesting theory on the architectural layout, but it's already known from the photos and stories that one entered the initial chamber through the arched entranceway, which would have been part of the "narthex" structure; one didn't double back in the opposite direction once inside. The two rectangular blocks in front of the narthex are likely the "sleeping lions" mentioned in one of the newspaper articles and shown in the photos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narthex

The spiral staircases look like they might have been the way to access the "Baha'i Sanctuary" space; other staircases are visible on the plans, such as on either side of the "Military Memorial Chamber", verifying the existence of (or plans for) sublevels or sunken rooms. Who knows how much of this was actually built; the accounts of the Church rejecting plans for expansion in 1958-62 seem to verify that it was never completed.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: December 27, 2010 11:52PM

Washington DC DEC 27 |

Subj: Preliminary Construction Details- Remeum

Construction, which commenced in the spring of 1939, called for excavation of a graded area, in a set of three distinct grades to a depth of 35 feet. This meant a finished grade of thirty feet and five feet to grade for foundational footings. [ This was set for the measurement specs for the Baha'i Sanctuary with to grade specs of 12 feet to cap and 3 feet for footings at the opposite end, entrance level/access from the courtyard gardens.

This was also linear in design. Given the amount of weight of the earth that would conceal the vaulted crypt area above, allowances were so specified in the final designs. As the floor plans detail, there are set levels, stepped, not unlike a swimming pool as an analogous comparison- the Baha'i Sanctuary being the deep end if you will.

Construction was excavation, concrete footings were poured, then plumbing and electrical roughed in, final masonry work to construct vaults, tombs, chapels, common areas, and then reburial of complex. [ It should be noted that by 1960- which the aerial photos show quite clearly, there is a reclamation by flora and reforestation over a large percentage of the site.

According to notes left by Mr. Remey, which are currently in his adopted son's collection of personal papers in Florence, Italy, the final touches on major construction on the underground complex were finished by late fall of 1948. The outer courtyards were constructed and walls were finished by the spring of 1950, the same year he departed to supervise the construction of the Baha'i Temple Of Justice in Haifa, Israel.

There was ongoing finishing work in th outdoor atrium/gardens, coupled with masonry/sculpture work being finished in the various rooms and chapels of the underground complex. [ In reference: The room marked storage contained a generator and principal power (electrical) access.] There was power throughout the complex for a lighting system.

What caused the rupture in the agreement between the vestry of the Pohick Church and Remey was not the complex which was finished & hidden from view owing to its being located underground. It was discovery of his plans to add a two story structure behind the crypt's principal entrance, which was incorporated into the original plans but had not been presented until the initial phase had been completed. This temple looking structure would have been located directly over the top of the Baha'i Sanctuary, and indeed faintly resembled the top two levels of the tower of the George Washington Masonic Temple located 7 miles north in Alexandria.

The addition of this building would have dwarfed the neighboring Pohick Church, and due to the elevation, would have made this structure visible in all directions up to three miles. [ There are draftsman drawings of this located in the rare book collections, REMEY, Charles W. at The Virginia Room, of the Fairfax County Public Library's Fairfax City branch.]

Once the Church learned of these plans in the summer of 1957, they immediately sought to break the 1937 agreement. They also sought an injunction in the Circuit Court for the County of Fairfax to halt any further construction.

Through a series of legal maneuvering, the case found its way into Federal Court District Court, culminating in the final agreement nearly 8 years later which led to Remey's vacating the property and receding it back to the Truro Parish/ Pohick.
It should be noted also that the trust fund set aside by Remey to defray security costs, maintenance considerations, and expenses incurred by Truro Parish/Pohick insofar as the Remeum was concerned had dwindled to a negative by 1960 and actually was running a deficit.

There will be more details and in greater depth as research continues.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Service
Washington DC

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Huntington ()
Date: December 28, 2010 12:13AM

I think this thread is so interesting, I love when I see it updated. Thanks to everyone who continues to look in to it. Anything with local history gets me hooked.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CWJ ()
Date: January 09, 2011 08:55AM

I am a longtime res. of the Mt Vernon,Lorton area. Always knew about "The Crypts" and visited there one time in 1980. One thing that I remember from my visit that truely alarmed me, and I always wondered about was the marble reliefs (picture carvings) on the courtyard walls. In all of the entries here, I have seen a good picture of only one. I remember a picture of a slave trader beating a slave on the deck of a ship. The man had a whip in his rt hand and a chain that was around the slave's neck in the other. This picture has been imprinted in my mind for years. I had always speculated that the place was destroyed possibly because of some of the depictitions on the property. Does anyone know about the artist of these works, or where I can see clear pictures of all of them. Did Remey have desendates from the slave trade. From 1968 to 1980 the american people were in the process of dealing with racism. It has been a very longtime. I may be partly mistaken. If you know anything pertaining to the carvings please write.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: darkstar ()
Date: January 11, 2011 01:12PM

Thank you for the new posts on this topic. I find the information fascinating.

It seems Charles Remey was a very public person as you can find several volumes of documentation that he wrote in his life time scared on different sites on line. In Remey's last will and testament dated August 29 1963 he said he didn't care where he was buried and left the decision up to his soon to be adopted son, Pepe.

Pepe died in 1994 and there could be information in regards to the Remeum in Pepe's estate.

Charles Mason Remey's Last Will and Testament

Dott. Proc. Giuseppe Pedone
Notaio in Milano
20121
- via Broletto, 37

Florence, Italy
29 August 1963 A.D.

I- I, Charles Mason Remey, U.S. citizen of Washington, D.C., born in Burlington, Iowa, on May 15th, 1874, being of sound physical and mental health do hereby declare this to be my last Will and Testament hereby revoking any previous Will and Testament heretofore made by me.

February 13, 1922 at Newark, New Jersey, U.S.A. be the executor of my estate.(Orthodox council Administration]
Charles Mason Remey

III- I bequeath to Joseph (Giuseppe) Pepe, Jr. everything tangible [the Orthodox Council Administrative Society] and intangible [Abha Nyorai Melchizedek Divan Prophethood Guardianship] that I possess and may be entitled to.

IV- As for the burial of my remains, I leave this entirely in the hands of Joseph Pepe Jr.

V- Any rights, outlined in the agreement between myself and the Pohick Church at Pohick, Fairfax, Virginia, U.S.A. which shall continue on after my death, I [transfer] onto Joseph Pepe Jr., whom I am adopting as my legal son and heir. I authorize Joseph Pepe Jr. to act in my behalf in the upkeep, arrangement or transfer of remains from the "Remeum" to any other place he may deem necessary for their safety.

Charles Mason Remey

http://web.archive.org/web/20020210172631/www.lelandjensen.net/html/cmr/adoption.htm

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: SILLYDAWG ()
Date: January 12, 2011 11:35AM

my sister shannon is so kewl for telling me about this.....

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 12, 2011 12:06PM

William Howard Taft Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I first heard about "the crypt" in high school,
> probably 1993. I was at a friend's house in the
> Marumsco area of Woodbridge, his mom told us about
> it when I was driving her someplace. She was
> definitely the type who would have hung out with
> the bad boys in the 70's so now I imagine she
> might have been in there a few times. She said
> there was a "platinum boat" floating in a pool of
> water at the bottom of a really huge deep crypt
> somewhere in Fairfax. The challenge to scare the
> hell out of people was to have them walk all the
> way to the bottom past all the dead people with
> just a candle. It sounded sort of over the top and
> local-legendy to me, but she kind of half
> heartedly said "no man, it was really there", and
> left it at that..
>
> Jump forward a few years and I discovered the
> existence of "The Remeum" while looking for info
> about the earlier Occoquan Pohick Church in the
> Virginiana room at PWC Central. I went out to
> Pohick with my girlfriend and we puttered around
> in the cemetery a bit. While we were checking out
> the carvings on the doorposts the caretaker came
> out. He liked that I was into the history, so he
> showed us around the inside of the church and
> pointed out a few of the interesting bits, talked
> about the days it was used as a horse stable, said
> they'd accidentally dug up quite a lot of people
> building the annex several years back. I said I'd
> heard there was a fantastic mausoleum somewhere on
> the grounds with beautiful statues, but it had
> been vandalized and was demolished. I had no idea
> at that point there was actually a significant
> structure, I thought it had been more like a
> walled garden with a gazebo.. He said "oh no, it's
> all still there--we just buried it." THAT
> statement is what really got me interested.
>
> I never really felt much of a serious connection
> between that story and this mausoleum until I
> found this thread and saw the pictures and
> architectural drawings. Now I'm thinking maybe
> that Platinum Boat might have been a lead casket,
> way back beyond the cinder block wall.. Or
> something weirder..

"It's all still there--we just buried it."

That really gets my attention. Churches are not short on cash, we know they've got plenty of it and they love it. Why not spend the money to dig it up, polish it up, make sure it's safe, and charge $10 a head? They'd get their money back and then some!

Letting it rot underground is such a travisty (sp?), it makes me sick.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jewel ()
Date: January 20, 2011 10:06PM

I attended Lee High school in the late 70s and everyone knew about the crypts. Our older brothers and sisters passed down all kinds of stories about them, some that I remember are:

*The caretaker lived in a house next to the crypts and was called Stumpy because he had no legs below his knees, just a board nailed between his stumps. He got around in a wheel chair pulled by mad dogs who he would sic on kids who walked down the gravel road to the crypts at night. He also had a shot gun loaded with rock salt.

*The statue of Admiral Remey had it's head stolen by some kid from a neighboring school. The kid was then killed by being decapitated in a car accident.

*The crypts were vast with several levels, almost everyone knew "some guy" who had been down to the lower levels using a secret door in the floor. no one could find the door.

*The crypts extended out under Pohick Road.

*Hell's Angels (or the Pagans) had blown up the crypts with dynamite after the cops bothered them too many times while partying there.

*There was still a woman and her baby in one of the sarcophagi.

*Admiral Remey would haunt anyone who disturbed the crypts.

*There was an on site crematorium, you could still see the chimneys from it.

*People who hung out at the crypts were called crypt crawlers.

About a year after I graduated, my friend Mcgoo and I were talking about all the legends about the crypts and really anted to go see them. We were good kids though (mostly) and we didn't want to get shot, or more likely arrested, because we had heard plenty of stories of kids getting caught by cops or having close calls with them. I said "Why don't we just go ask if we can see them?"

We parked in the church parking lot and took a look at the older gravestones there. No one seemed to be around to care about our being parked there so we cut through to the gravel road to the crypts. Along the road were big marble columns, laying on their side in stacks of three or four, along with some other big piles of building materials. They looked like they had been there fro quite some time, bushes and plants had grown up around them. We walked up to the caretaker's house (Stumpy's) and knocked on the door.

A really nice younger guy (in his late 20s or 30s) came out to talk to us. his wife was making dinner in the background and his dogs (golden retrievers I think) barked once or twice but calmed down and were friendly once he spoke to them. We asked him if we could look at the tomb and he laughed and said no one had ever asked permission before. He called to his daughter (about 8 to 10 years old with a pageboy hair cut) and gave us two flashlights and told her to walk us over to where they were. He asked that we return the flashlight when we were finished.

She took us over and we walked around the outside of the tomb looking at the sculptures. There was one of the Remey family coming over on the Mayflower, one of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. We went over and looked the the big brick cross on the other end of the field and read the inscription, we didn't notice the bench or survey markers, it was summer I think and they may have been over grown. I would love to see a picture of the bench.

After a while we wandered back to the front of the crypts and up to the entrance where it was half buried with a gap right under the arch. The kid got bored and wandered back home. we decided that the caretaker had probably figured we were going to try and go inside, after all he had loaned us flashlights, so we scrambled up the dirt mound and climbed under the arch. My friend went first and told me to be careful, I had to ease over the top of an ornate iron gate. He said there was a ladder to climb down and guided my foot so I wouldn't fall. When I got to the bottom and looked back at the gate I realized that it was no ladder, it was the bottom of a destroyed coffin and we had climbed down the ribs on it.

The first thing I noticed about the crypt was how destroyed it was. Th floor was about one to two feet deep in debris and water. The walls were beat up and cracked in some places, as was the ceiling. the top part of the walls and ceiling were black and it really did look like someone had set off dynamite in there. There were carved panels on the walls like outside but they were demolished. I remember one towards the back left looking from the entryway was a carving of French Huguenots landing in a row boat. Bits of it were all over the floor, I picked up part of a hand holding an oar,the bottom half of a face and a bit of carved robe. There were large stone sarcophagi in the four rooms off the sides of the entry way and back hall. One had no lid but one was a woman lying down holding a baby. They were huge there was no way anyone could have moved them without equipment.

All over the floor were beer cans, roach buts and trash along with chunks of marble and bricks. There was standing water but you could step over it in most places. The statue of Admiral Remey and his wife kneeling at his feet (wtf?) was centered in the main room. He was headless as legend said, there were candle burm marks on the statues, and candle drippings. There was a bit of grafitti on the walls but I can't remember any of it.

In the back hallway there was an arch which had been sealed with concrete block. there were signs of people who had tried to break through it, at one point there was a hole that showed a bit of red clay earth behind it. We figured it was kids trying to break through and find the other levels. When we walked around behind it later we figured they were just a legend because there was no way that it went back any further, the hillock it was buried under ended right behind where we figured that blocked doorway was. Its kind of exciting to think that it may have been a descending tomb as others had proposed. If that was true may be it did extend all the way out under Pohick Road.

I went back to show it to a friend in the late 80s and it had all been plowed over. Such a shame it was a beautiful and solemn place despite its abuse. From the height of the hill now there and the two chimneys sticking up from it, I figure they did not collapse it, it looks like they just dumped earth over it and smoothed it down with bulldozers. The picture of the present day digging at the sight sure looks like the top of the wall over the arch, I remember it having a cement cap like that.

I hope that when Virginia gets its budget straightened out that they would think about funding an archeological dig and restoration there. It certainly was a big part of a lot of people's history and I would love to tour it restored. I would think that it could be a bit of a money maker for the old parish. I would even be happy to bring back my marble bits so they could reassemble the Huguenot carving.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Huntington ()
Date: January 20, 2011 11:06PM

Ahh, Mrs. Remey was kneeling, that explains the weird size of the statues. That image has always bothered me, but that makes sense now. The statue made her look like Cotton Hill from "King of the Hill", "I got no knees". No disrespect intended. Maybe it was supposed to be a representation of praying or their marriage vows?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: JackdUpFord ()
Date: January 20, 2011 11:09PM

I killed fitty men.

Oh I love KOTH

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jewel ()
Date: January 22, 2011 01:27AM

I think the story of Mrs. Remey is very sad. He apparently married her for her money. The story is that she committed suicide during the first year of their marriage and left him millions. Since he is the one who commissioned the statues, I feel the fact that she is kneeling is a bit telling. I think his attitude towards her is evident in that he moved all his other relatives to a graveyard in New York while he left his wife's body there for the church to bury.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Rick ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:16PM

Went to check it out today but no tresspassing signs everywhere. Would have gone in anyway in the old days but wasn't drunk or high enough to risk it!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 23, 2011 11:29PM

Washington DC JAN 23 |

re: Jewel's quote: "The story is that she committed suicide during the first year of their marriage and left him millions."

During the course of the research into the history of not only the Remeum, but Mason Remey and his family, there have been absolutely no established documents that would lend credence to that quote.

The estate left him under the terms of her will which is still on file with the District of Columbia's Superior Court mentions sums considerably less. Mason Remey's wealth stemmed from his mother's estate and a to a lessor degree, monies derived from the Admiral's estate.

Given the fact that the Great Depression was already a factor, the Remey family was fortunate in that regard as their monies had not been tied up in stocks or investments that had been negatively affected by the crash of 1929 and the economic downturn that resulted. In fact, much of the family's wealth was held in trust by New York banking houses that had not been affected by the financial collapses that led to the Great Depression.

Another oddity was the disparity in the ages. He was 57 in 1932 when he married Gertrude Heim Klemm. She was in her early thirties. Little is known about their relationship, and Remey never married again. It has been verified that she killed herself although the exact reason is not clear.

Finally, movement of the bodies other deceased family members to New York was carried out by a relative by marriage and not by Mason Remey. At the time of the disinterments, he was living in extremely poor health in Florence, Italy, and in fact was to die lass than four years after the bodies had been moved. The reburial of his wife was done at the behest of his adopted son.

Under the terms of the final court order by the Federal Court for the Northern District Of Virginia in Alexandria in the spring of 1968, Remey or his assigned representatives were given 5 years to effect vacating the Remeum at which time the Truro Parish's Pohick Church would regain control of the site.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
http://chasinglosthistory.blogspot.com/2010/12/remeum-memorial-tomb-urban-legend-in.html

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mike C ()
Date: January 24, 2011 05:25PM

Hey everybody:

I'm a local reporter and I'm looking to do a story about the Remeum. I've been down to the Virginia Room in Fairfax and have looked through a lot of the documentation, but I'd like to find a few people knowledgeable about the history of the mausoleum to fill in gaps in the information I have (and lend some interesting quotes).

I'm not terribly interested in stories of hanging out with your friends and how spooky it was, or urban legends or anything that is hearsay. I'd like to speak with people who actually know the history.

I've looked through the posts above and will likely contact a few of your directly. But if anybody has a good lead or good source, please let me know.

Thanks!

Mike

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Bill ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:32PM

Brody, I see that you write a lot on LGBT subjects. What's the connection with the Remey story?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: JackdUpFord ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:39PM

Here is the writers info and some stuff he has written. I haven't read any, but just figured I'd post it up: http://fairfaxcity.patch.com/users/mike-conway

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: aaaaarrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhh ()
Date: January 24, 2011 09:44PM

A writer for Patch.com? Fuck that shit.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 25, 2011 07:51PM

Washington DC JAN 25 |

Dear Bill,

I write actually on mainstream, LGBTQ, and other news bits but as a political journalist not writing on technology, science, as those subjects are not my bailiwick.

I did minor in history when I matriculated at San Francisco City College, and later at UCSF nearly 33 years ago, but honestly, as my principal academic discipline and chosen career field was/is journalism I cannot lay claim to even being an 'amateur' historian.

What started this research was a conversation with a dear friend who grew up in the NOVA area and attended school there. Apparently, the urban legend that was 'the crypts' fascinated folk including him, who is acquainted with someone who apparently participated in several 'gatherings' there during its heyday in the mid 1970's.

What struck me, was once he showed me this thread and its accompanying stories, was the fact that there were so many questions, but no hard answers. Bill? There is no greater challenge to a journalist than that scenario.

For example, Charles Mason Remey was, to say the least, an egotistical eccentric who traveled in the rarefied air that was Washington's high society. His friends were often derisively referred to by the 32nd President of the United States, Franklin D. Roosevelt, as "cave dwellers." A note here, his home on Massachusetts Avenue that he designed and built is now the Chancery Annex to the Embassy of Mexico.

When he was a young architectural student, he lived as a very welcome guest in the Parisian apartment of Phoebe Apperson Hearst, mother of newspaper magnate and publisher William Randolph Hearst and patron of the University Of California. In fact, it was there he first encountered the Baha'i faith that later became the central critical component to his adult life until his passage in Florence, Italy.

I could go on but that would overwhelm this thread, so instead I set-up a blog to document the facts as I went along.

It is a fascinating story Bill. There are so many aspects to it aside from the Remeum itself. Which of course begs an answer to this central question: Why would Mason Remey invest over a million dollars in the construction of this magnificent and massive structure, and then walk away from it?

Bottom-line? At the end of a long day of reporting on other current news and issues Bill, this is a fun story to research and work on. So many questions, and not enough answers. By the way, I sent my assistant to review the wealth of materials in the Virginia Room at the Fairfax County Library, Fairfax City Branch, which though informative, raised even more questions and speculations. Although the question as to why the Truro Parish's Pohick brought the project to a rather abrupt halt was answered. The size of the "addition" to be constructed directly over the buried complex beneath it, would have been rather noticeable and absolutely would have overshadowed the church.

Principally, that was the reason the church sought to stop construction although, the vestrymen weren't happy at all with the continual intrusions by the local adolescents which created a headache for them and a nuisance for the Groveton later Mount Vernon substations of the Fairfax County Police Department.

Now, in chasing this story, I have run across even more fascinating bits of lost history related to things such as the airfield that once stood atop Beacon Hill along with its sister airfield in Hybla Valley along U. S. Route One in my quest for aerial photos and other documentation. I have spoken to one man, in his late 80's who flew out of Hybla Valley who remembers flying over the area of the Remeum while it was being built in the 1940's right after the second world war ended. His description verified what the plans we found in the several linear feet at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore revealed as to the size of this structure.

On top of that, we are unearthing a part of Fairfax County's history as a place of dairy farms and a pace of life that is virtually unrecognizable today. Its fascinating to beat that poor descriptive adjective to death. My interviews so far range from a former supervisor to a former Deacon of the Church to Baha'i historians and chroniclers.

One last thing Bill, the Admiral and his wife were never removed from their burial sites in Arlington National Cemetery and interred in the Remeum as a result of Mason Remey being blocked from doing so by his brothers who wanted nothing to do with his "project" as the family referred to it.

SO, there's a basic overview of why a freelance wire service reporter [ and a Canadian on top of that ] is poking around in an obscure tale around a historic church in the suburban Washington DC area.

Oh, here's the blog I have started for this and I will be adding as time goes on.
[ http://chasinglosthistory.blogspot.com/ ]

Feel free to contact me Bill if you'd like as well at theroadtraveler@gmail.com

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Service LLC
Washington D. C.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Lazy Mobster ()
Date: January 25, 2011 08:34PM

Just spent the better part of my evening reading this. Wow what a tale. I can't wait to hear more about this as it comes to light. What I'm most curious about is why the multiple level thing has not been proven or disproven yet. And why no archeaologit with a ground penetrating radar has been out there?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 25, 2011 11:52PM

Washington DC JAN 25 |

Re: Lazy Mobster's question(s) as to levels and use of technology in determine size and scope of the Remeum.

Dear LM,

I can safely answer both questions with some veracity as to the accuracy of what I am going to state.

There are not multiple levels in a conventional floor over floor over floor as it was constructed. Hence while the Bahia'i sanctuary and the chapels from floor to ceiling would measure as two conventional stories, the actual design called for a graduated step down which meant that while the 'upper level' maintained a ceiling height of 12 feet minus foundational footings, the descent was gradual and only a few stairs at a time which if you'll note from the architectural diagram that Mason Remey drew and as displayed elsewhere within this thread, the aforementioned chapel(s) and Baha'i sanctuary had ceilings at the 24 foot to 30 foot mark.

As I had previously written, thus the rough equivalent using the analogy and comparison of an in-ground swimming pool.

As far as ground penetrating sonar/radar/x-rays et cetera. The Truro Parish's Pohick Church does not in any way shape or form want any attention drawn to the Remeum. It is partially due to politics, problems, the fact that it was a public nuisance, and was a considerable legal liability to the church.

A good deal of the politics revolves around Mason Remey and his purposes/motivations for building the facility, which even now create conflicts.

Having spoken to a source at the church, I can assure you they definitely do not want this issue revisited and very much do not desire to have folks poking around on the site. Now, my source was terribly gracious but firm on that point.

The County also doesn't want, as one person in Supervisor Gerry Hyland (D-Mount Vernon) told me. Of course the Fairfax County Police Department really doesn't want to repeat history either.

Now, I am not going to make a comment or form an opinion on the pros and cons of an archeological exploration as its not germane to my researching and writing the story. I can only contribute that the Pohick Church as well as certain elements of the County government would absolutely be grateful to see this subject relegated to a shelf gathering dust in the library.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Date: January 25, 2011 11:57PM

This reminds me of the grave stones you see on the corner of Nutley Avenue and Route 29 up in Fairfax - by the Starbucks.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Nutley and 29 ()
Date: January 26, 2011 06:09AM

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/branches/vr/cem/cem014.htm

The grave site at Nutley and Rt. 29 is a family cemetary. The graves are Civil War era, thus the Confederate flags you see from time to time. The Thompson Family still owns that parcel of land abutting the Pan Am shopping center, along with some other large tracts north and south on Lee Hwy.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous Fan of Thread ()
Date: January 26, 2011 06:12AM

Great work Brody! Keep it up!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: January 26, 2011 07:10AM

I have to agree that we all owe you a big thanks for your thorough research, Brody. They weren't necessarilly the answers I wanted to hear, in respect to the pencil-pushers having no desire to unearth the Crypt because they won't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I guess the silver lining is that they're not so up in arms that they plan on destroying what's left. Maybe all we need to do is have some patience and hope that someone, someday appreciates the history for what it was and starts digging.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: digger ()
Date: January 26, 2011 01:45PM

I went metal detecting on the south side of the hill this place was on. It looked like it might have been one of the old pickets from the civil war. as it turns out it was, in my opinion, an ols latrene from the builders. looked like it would have been an over sized (long) fox hole and I found about 25 early 1900's penny's I think the latest was from around 1914. I don't recall exactly as I was looking for relics not nearly modern coins. A message to any relic hunters out there this entire area is totally trashy so much so discrimination and ground balance don't always work,

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Huntington ()
Date: January 26, 2011 02:24PM

Very cool Brody, thanks for the work! Love this thread.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: 703 ()
Date: January 26, 2011 03:07PM

Soooo, why hasn't anyone started digging? Little...bits...at...a...time.
.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 26, 2011 04:04PM

Washington DC JAN 25 |

Dear Folks,

First I want to thank each & everyone who has sent me e-mails regarding the ongoing as yet still untitled story regarding the Remeum and I especially want to express my gratitude for your kind words and also here on this thread as well.

I'm going to take a few minutes and answer some of the questions that you've asked and also I'd like to point out that if there are any of you out there who have further sources or may wish out to point out discrepancies, by all means please let me know.

Okay, a reader asked about stairs on either side of the Baha'i sanctuary. From the description afforded me by an architectural expert as well as facts that I have been able ascertain from snippets of data in the collections of Mason Remey's papers and letters, those stairs go up and are capped by two solid concrete "lids" which lie at a depth of around 6 feet under the soil at grade but, given the passage of now 64 years that depth may be slightly greater. Also, judging from the aerial shots that are available dating from the 1950's forward, the area reforested naturally, which means that quite likely there could be trees and root structures covering those caplids as well.

Now, by way of explanation, and since photo documentation is currently not available, I'll attempt to paint a picture here with words. Those staircases are enclosed in stairwells that best resemble the "towers" of a 12th century English or French castle. Or for those of you who've been able to visit a lighthouse, picture the interior stairs leading up to the actual light & mechanism.

These stairwells were to provide access to the the Remeum from the proposed "addition" that was to be built directly above the buried crypts & chapels. It would be fair to say that the addition faintly resembled the Lincoln Memorial with the top two stories of the George Washington Memorial Masonic Temple as the "roof," while although was not on the same scale as those two structures, still would have been large enough to be seen for quite some distance as the Pohick Church and the property actually sit astride the crest of a ridge.

Now, until I have a chance to update the blogsite with the referenced architectural drawings, I should point out that this addition's scaled architectural drawing and description in Mason Remey's own hand, is part of the rare book & papers collections of the Remey collection which is available for public perusal at the Virginia Room, of the Fairfax City Branch, of the Fairfax County public library.

Now, another reader wanted to know about the construction of the structure. My staff, who are immensely enjoying researching this by the way, and I are looking for the actual vendors of materials used. Principally, the Stone & Brickyard that provided the bricks. Now, the cement as it was called and concrete work was most likely done on site. We know that a bulk of the construction was carried out between 1939 and 1948 in terms of the underground portion. But, it should be noted, that the work was sporadic during the time period 1942 to 1945 as a result of wartime shortages of materials and obviously manpower.

Now, that doesn't mean that there was a cessation of work, but rather wartime priorities took centre stage with major projects at nearby Fort Belvoir, the Pentagon, Fort Hunt, and other defence projects in greater Northern Virgina. This meant that the skilled crafts and journeymen would have worked on Mason Remy's structure, did so piecemeal, hence the decade plus time period from excavation to recovering and grading of the underground site along with grading to elevation specified for the outdoor courtyards and atrium.

Because of wartime shortages, the construction would not have included steel reinforcements, just a simple concrete and brickwork execution.

Decorative features including the various bas reliefs depicting the family history, the concrete lions that stood guard at the entrance to the colonnaded inner atrium, of course the statues and other sculptures were being added starting during the 1950's and into the early 1960's.

From my understanding from the curator's at the NATIONAL BUILDING MUSEUM | 401 F Street NW Washington, DC 20001 | 202.272.2448 | Red Line Metro, Judiciary Square
Hours: Mon - Sat 10:00 am - 5:00 pm, Sun 11:00 am - 5:00 pm | with whom I shared enlarged versions of some of the photographs that were taken by the readership of this thread, the brickwork is executed in such a way as to quite literally last numerous centuries, but more importantly, be able to sustain the weight of the earth above the structure. In the case of the sections further back from those shots and based on the Remey draftsman drawing, the walls, footings, and vaulted ceilings were built not only to withstand the pressure of the earth fill, but also support the weight of the proposed addition.

Another reader wanted to know the exact floor footprint in terms of square feet.
Without the actual construction blueprints available at this time its damn near impossible to give an accurate assessment.
I am tracking down those blueprints as we have discovered that they still exist. However, I need to dispel the notion that the structure "ran" under Pohick Road or even US Route One. Judging from what the experts with whom I have consulted have explained, the Baha'i sanctuary would have been approximately less than 150 yards southeast of the residence referred to as "Stumpy's" which in fact was the Pohick Church Sexton-Warder's residence. The axis of the underground structure was such as if a clock-face were used as a reference point, the alignment would be that the Remeum would be pointed at "noon" or 12 o'clock and the Pohick church would be at one o'clock.

Again, as we search for what seems to be highly elusive aerial photographs taken during the time period 1939 to 1948, or better, construction photos should those exist, its difficult to describe.

Now, the other search that is running concurrently is documentation of monies spent by way of cancelled cheques, bank-drafts, or other financials documenting monies spent on materials or wages. For example, located directly across the US highway 1 was a small travel court built in the 1930's. It was later called the Pohick Inn. It is very possible that a Guest Register if still in existence may shed light on workers, craftsmen, or others who may have been connected to the project.

Now, one last question I need to answer. Access to the other sections and the rumors attached to them. I need to point out, that a contractor was hired to "plug" the access to the other portions of The Remeum in the spring of 1970. This coincided with removal of the 15 remains as well as interring Mrs. Mason Remey in the Church which actually wasn't accomplished until 1972. The specified method called for was construction of two walls of cinderblocks with a layer of dirt fill packed and spaced between them. Hence, if you punched through one wall you'd encounter a dirt barrier. Rather effective at discouraging further exploration.

Now, that stated, there are those individuals who in fact have explored the entire space prior to those plugs being installed. By the way, if you look at the pictures that show the statue of Admiral George Collier Remey USN and his wife facing the photographer, you can just barely make out one of those plugs in the passageway behind the statue.

I am currently seeking out those folks along with other verified documentation/information so please bear with me as I research that.

I'll be covering more on construction details later but please feel free to email me with questions or post them here and I shall try to answer them. In some cases, I need to forewarn that I may not be able to provide an answer as I too am still searching for that particular answer.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jewel ()
Date: January 27, 2011 12:28AM

Dear Mr. Levesque,

Thanks for the correction about Mrs. Remey. As I said before, most of what I knew of the story came from being passed around by high school kids. It is fascinating learning more about it. I love history and a good mystery and the crypts give you both. I look forward to reading more from other crypt crawlers and would love to hear some of the rumors that flew at other schools. I hope some more photos turn up. Finally I thank you for putting the time and effort into unraveling this tale; separating the facts from the fiction.

Cheers!

Jewel

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 27, 2011 11:32PM

Washington DC JAN 27 |

Gentlefolk,

I am establishing the following list of local high schools whose student bodies were aware of or in some cases individually, participated in "events" at the Remeum from the time period of March 1956 until the 1983 when access was eventually eliminated completely by the Pohick Church.

Please be so kind as to let me know if I've forgotten a school.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

Principally students from these High Schools:

Mount Vernon High School * Mt. Vernon-Ft. Belvoir Areas
Groveton (now West Potomac) High School * Groveton-Beacon Hill Areas
Hayfield High School * Telegraph-Kingstowne Areas
Thomas Edison High School * Franconia Area
Robert E. Lee High School * Franconia-Springfield Areas

Rarely but additionally also students from:

Lake Braddock High School * Burke-Kings Park Areas
W. T. Woodson High School * Fairfax City
Annandale High School * Annandale-North Springfield Areas
West Springfield High School * West Springfield-Burke Areas

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:48AM

I would hardly consider Lake Braddock as rarely involved at all. I was there and it was a regular destination for many LB students. There was also a Connection story posted here with pictures and dialogue about LB students.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 28, 2011 04:21PM

Washington DC JAN 28 |

Dear CBLB78,

I had read that along with the copy of the article mentioned that is archived at the Fairfax County Public library as well in the Virginia Room.

My immediate question was "frequency" and "consistency" of participants from the local schools during the many 'gatherings' at the Remeum.
I certainly am not attempting to downplay any group's involvement or knowledge but merely am attempting to establish the facts v. the legends.

That said, I accept that there were pupils from all of the aforementioned lists that had knowledge of or traveled to for 'gatherings' at the Remeum. Frequency of appearance was rated by proximity, yet as this is still ongoing, I am more than happy to continue to document and add as I go along.

Of course, the interesting aspects of this story are more how the tale was spread and the resulting "legends" that accompanied the tale. Right now, I am establishing an outline sketch of the timeline from 1939 till 1983, and all pupils that were there quite obviously factor into the storyline.

Separation again was only by what few facts we have gathered thus far and as a result sir, the lists are fluid in that regard.

Since it has now been over 27 years, and I've checked, outside of possibly the embarrassment due to public exposure if revealed involuntarily, none of the persons who attended functions there during its heyday would be vulnerable to criminal charges or civil liabilities.

I fully intend to keep sources anonymous if so asked as that's a principle of my profession that I strictly adhere to. I have been getting e-mails with contributions by means of telling me the experiences the writer's had at the 'crypts' as is the common term for which I am deeply appreciative.

At some point, I intend to also interview the author of that Connection Newspaper article for his impressions as well.

The thing is this though, there are so many different aspects to the overall story which are fascinating. In some regards, not unlike a difficult puzzle.

So, I accept that I stand corrected on Lake Braddock High School and also invite further comments. reflections on experiences, or knowledge of aspects of this story that might other wise get overlooked.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: CBLB78 ()
Date: January 28, 2011 07:38PM

Brody,

No offense taken at all! I just thought you were looking for feedback.

I would say that knowledge of the Crypts spread word of mouth from other kids all over Northern Virginia. Gas was cheap and nobody minded a road trip out to Rt. 1 so I think it would be difficult to realistically concentrate the visitors to a handful of high schools. You really never knew who you would run into when you climbed down in there and they weren't all high school students.

Thanks for your work on this! We never knew any of this history back in the day.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: VANative ()
Date: January 28, 2011 08:26PM

Principally students from these High Schools:
Mount Vernon High School * Mt. Vernon-Ft. Belvoir Areas
Groveton (now West Potomac) High School * Groveton-Beacon Hill Areas

The above is correct, but you have omitted Fort Hunt High School.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 28, 2011 08:42PM

Washington DC JAN 28 |

Dear CBLB78 and VANative,

Thank you for your kindness and I have updated the list we are building on the "participating" schools.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 28, 2011 11:10PM

Washington DC JAN 28 |

Dear Jewel,

I thought you'd get a kick out of the following promotional advert that Cornell University's special collections ran when they displayed the many various fashions worn by Mrs. C. M. Remey, that were donated by Mason Remey after her death.

As I've written earlier, Mason, along with his wife were members of Washington's 'power' elite and as such were quite fashionable.

Mason Remey trained as an architect at Cornell University (1893–1896), before leaving to attend the prestigious École des Beaux-Arts in Paris, France (1896–1903).

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
Attachments:
Cornell University Remey Collection.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jewel ()
Date: January 29, 2011 03:39AM

Dear Mr. Levesque,
If there is one thing I love more than history it is fashion! Thank you so much for the link. I once participated in an interactive theater production where I played Madeline Astor on the Titanic crossing. I researched and constructed a few pieces of period clothes to wear in it. The detail in early 1900s clothing is daunting but lovely. I will have to put a trip to the collection on my bucket list.

Thanks again!

Jewel

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: darkstar ()
Date: January 31, 2011 05:50PM

Hi Brody

Thank you for all of the information you have been providing in regards to the Remey Crypt.

It was a fascinating place back in the day that I visited many times. I went to Hayfield Secondary which served students in the Lorton area starting in 1973.

Prior to that time Lorton residents went to West Springfield HS. The county changed the bus boundaries in 1973. Students who were currently enrolled in West Springfield in 1973 continued to attend West Springfield. Intermediate students who attended Washington Irving Intermediate, like myself, were bused to Hayfield to start the 1973/74 school years. Some families had half of their children attending West Springfield and half attending Hayfield.

You must not rule out students who attended Washington Irving Intermediate school as they could have likely visited Remey Crypts as well.

Like another person pointed out it wasn't just area students who visited the Crypts. Word was out about the place for many years and it became a big attraction to people of all ages whos residence could have been in neighboring states.

We all attended concerts at Capital Centre, (Landover MD) back in those times and I'm sure the Crypts were mentioned more than once as a place to go not only for its creepiness but another place to party. In addition, a lot of the Lorton parties played host to non-residents as well.

I once found a link to a Customs Agency, I believe in the Baltimore area that gave Remey a citation for not having a permit to import marble statues from Italy. Remey was trying to evade paying import taxes. There should be some documentation that exists that will enable further research along those lines.

There was a brickyard at Lorton Reformatory just off of Route 123 (Ox Road) that was continuously turning out product at the time the Crypt would have been built. A few dollars passed along to the right hands back in those days could have resulted in a supply of bricks to contractors.

You may want to contact the alumni of the former George Washington HS as some of them may have known about the Crypts back in the 1950s and early to mid 1960s.
http://gwhsaa.com/

By any chance did you ever visit the Crypt prior to it being covered over by the Church?

Thanks again for all of your work on this subject.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2011 07:10PM by darkstar.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: January 31, 2011 11:28PM

Washington DC JAN 31 |

Dear Darkstar,

Thank you for the leads, especially the U. S. Customs lead as that will augment some other information that I am trying to verify.

To answer to your question about my visiting the site prior to the Pohick Parish burying the facility, simply, no sadly I did not.

I grew up in Ontario province, Canada, near Toronto. I then moved to San Francisco, California for university in 1979 and later commenced my career as a cub reporter for the old UPI which has now been transformed into an organisation that bears little resemblance to the outfit I worked for 30 years ago.

Now, I have interviewed a former member of the 'Pagan' motorcycle club, a gentleman in his early 60's, who grew up "on the highway" as he refers to US 1 and who also apparently "partied" at the Remeum in the 1970's.

Some of his stories are interesting, albeit a tad bit hazy due to his self admitted over indulgence of shall I say, "restricted chemicals and alcohol" which leads to sketchy details obviously.

However, he has been able to fill in gaps surrounding the culture of that time and given me historical references which are invaluable to filling in the gaps. His only request was that I simply refer to him by his M/C club name of 'Spike' which I decided that I didn't need a detailed explanation of how he arrived at that particular handle. In way of a further note, he has a rather extensive collection of tattoos & body art along with interesting scars and accompanying explanations of how he ended up with them.

'Spike' was able to debunk the so-called murdered girls urban legend, which was further verified by a retired Fairfax County Police Department homicide investigator. He also gained credibility by articulately citing details of the interior of the structure and other locations that his M/C club hung at that were independently verified.

To be honest, this story is absolutely incredible in terms of the generations involved, the historical perspectives, and finally, the persons involved in teh building, design, and then the family history too.

For example, Mason Remey's maternal grandfather was in charge of the United States Patent office before the American Civil War. One of the persons Judge Mason hired to assist him was none other than Clara Barton, who went on to gain fame as the founder of the American Red Cross.

I am checking also on your lead regarding the brickworks at the Lorton Reformatory too. Given the high society circles that Mason Remey traveled, having a connection there is not all that far fetched.

I have also added George Washington High School in Alexandria along with the Washington Irving Intermediate to the list. Would you or any of the other readers consider adding T. C. Williams High School to that list or no?

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque
Attachments:
REMY.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: One of the gang ()
Date: February 01, 2011 06:19AM

Hi Brody, what does it mean that the Remeys were a part of the "power elite"? What I mean is, were they just people with money and nice clothing who lived in DC, or were they actually connected? My impression is that to this day, DC is extremely extremely power hungry and status conscious, that everyone is measuring everyone else's status to the millimeter, and I'm just curious what Remey's stature derived from. OK, he was an architect, so were lots of others. Was his status from his Admiral father?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 01, 2011 10:59AM

Washington DC FEB 1 |

Re: "What does it mean that the Remeys were a part of the "power elite"?

Dear One Of The Gang,

Famed journalist,correspondent, and student of history David Brinkley wrote in his book, 'Washington Goes To War:'

“Not many huge fortunes were ever made in Washington, but a great many made elsewhere were spent there."

To answer your question fairly, the Remey family was extremely well off by the standards of the day. The family also held long connections to Washington City as it was then known to its social elite. Some of whom also were political brokers as well.

One of the peculiarities to Washington for years, lessor so now, is that there were residents who came and went with the various administrations and Congresses and the 'permanent' inhabitants of the city.

Brinkley wrote:

"With social status depending on presidential administrations, appointments, and elections, Washington Society has never been conducive toward an “Old-money†crowd. That said, someone had to build the city, and though they are an elusive and restrictive bunch, I’ve found them.

Known as the “Cave Dwellers†due to their invisibility around town, these permanent establishment types made their homes in the Kalorama neighborhood of northwest DC. It was an isolated neighborhood; residents had their chauffeurs take them around town and their children attended private schools. When we see street signs in DC, it’s these characters for which they are named. Many of the Cave Dwellers descended from the original families in the area, dating back to 1634. DC was on their land, and they considered themselves to be caretakers of the federal government and the nation by extension.

Long used to having a say in government, President of the Riggs National Bank Charles Glover—of the Glover Park Glovers—used to walk across Pennsylvania Avenue to discuss financial affairs with the Secretary of the Treasury. Truth be told, he was such a common sight that the Secretary gave him a desk in the building. In 1915 a new comptroller ordered the desk removed, believing it bad federal policy for a private banker to have a personal desk at the Treasury building. This did not go over well with Charles Glover, who walked up to the comptroller and hit him on the head with his cane.

The event signaled the removal of Cave Dwellers from government affairs. The final nail in the coffin was the arrival of FDRs New Dealers, seen as young, idealistic, academic, social workers, guilty of wearing the wrong colored shoe at dinner. The Washington families wanted nothing to do with the “communist†New Dealers, and in turn the New Dealers were happy to avoid the “fascist†Cave Dwellers. Oh sure, the Cave Dwellers could still be seen at the Metropolitan or the Chevy Chase Country Club, but after the 30s, the Cave Dwellers mainly kept to themselves."

FDR himself often held these persons in great contempt.

Now, by way of further explanation, Mason Remey was a friend and guest of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, widow of House Speaker Nicholas Longworth, cousin to FDR and his wife Eleanor, and of course daughter of President Theodore Roosevelt. Her home was but a quick 5 minute stroll from either Mason's parents home on Rhode Island avenue or his home on Massachusetts avenue. [ All of which were located in the historic DuPont Circle neighborhood of Washington. ]

I found references to Mason Remey being an invited guest to functions held by Evelyn Walsh McLean,the last owner of the famed Hope Diamond. He apparently was good friends with Cissy Patterson, journalist and newspaper editor, publisher and owner of the Washington Times-Herald newspaper, who often feuded publicly with FDR and his policies. A footnote here, Ms. Patterson's lavish mansion at 15 DuPont Circle is now The Washington Club and is the only original home left on the actual perimeter of the circle's fountain park as the rest were torn down to make way for business and office buildings.

Remey's family had money. His maternal grandfather was wealthy and as I mentioned had been the United States Commissioner of Patents. Remey's father was a highly decorated U. S. Naval officer, whose family was also well off. Then there was Remey himself, who made money from his lectures and book-sales regarding the Baha'i faith. Further note here, Mason Remey was extremely prolific as an writer and authored quite a collection of works over the years.

Remey was also a member of the faculty as an adjunct professor of architecture at the George Washington University in Foggy Bottom.

During his brief marriage, the Remey's were frequent guests at Embassy functions, and private parties given by the society types. She also had connections to the social circles in Kansas City, Missouri, which included the democratic Party Boss and power broker Tom Pendergast, who gave rise to the political career of future U. S. President Harry S. Truman.

I have filed a request with the presidential libraries of both FDR & Truman, to establish links and connections to Remey if any exist.

One thing I have been able to determine is that Remey has a monstrous ego. And because the social circles of Washington City were tiny compared to those after the second war and the new deal, these folk literally knew each other and often went on holiday to Newport, Rhode Island, Palm Beach, Florida, and in the years between the wars, Europe.

Some of Remey's friends were also blue-bloods from the royal houses of Europe.
This was no ordinary Joe Citizen.

So, you can see way this story is so fascinating and unique. It really is, "Chasing Lost History."

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: darkstar ()
Date: February 01, 2011 11:34AM

Brody, thank you for your reply.

I would add T.C. Williams High School to your list.

I came across an article about the Lorton Reformatory brick yards that may be of interest.

Lorton VA-Where Inmates Paved the Way For A New Future

"In 1925 the brick kilns were considered some of the best on the east coast and in 1927 it is estimated the inmates made over 4.2 million bricks. The kilns were located on the banks of the Occoquan River making it easier for bricks not used for the reformatory to be sold and shipped to DC. Bricks were used to build a number of buildings in DC include Cardoza HS on Clifton Street NW now on the National Register of Historic Places."
http://militaryrelocationnews.com/post/1783038/lorton-va-where-inmates-paved-the-way-for-a-new-future

There was also a sizable rock quarry in Occoquan which could have provided additional building materials.

Occoquan Quarry (Occoquan Quarry Nos. 1 & 2), Fairfax Co., Virginia, USA
REF:Deposit:: MESA INSP.
Deposit:: MESA HEALTH AND SAFETY INSPECTION REPORT MARCH 30-31, 1972.
Deposit:: QUARRY IS OPERATED BY VULCAN MATERIALS COMPANY.
Deposit:: OPERATION INCLUDES A MILL.
Commodities (Major) - Granite
Development Status: Past Producer
http://www.mindat.org/loc-103569.html

The New York Times has several pay per view articles about Remey.

July 6, 1931 MRS. KLEMM TO MARRY.; General's Widow to Wed Charles M. Remey, Admiral's Son.

August 6, 1932 MRS. REMEY KILLS HERSELF IN CAPITAL; Architect Finds Wife Wounded in Home -- Says She Had Been Desp...

http://query.nytimes.com/search/queryquery=Charles+Mason+Remey&date_select=full&srchst=p



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2011 11:58AM by darkstar.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 02, 2011 11:07PM

Washington DC FEB 2 |

Dear Folks,

Here are the pictures of the proposed addition that Mason Remey notified the Truro Parish's Pohick Church vestrymen & rector in the spring of 1957 he was going to add over the top of the existing structure.

These architectural sketches were executed by Mason Remey and were originally published in the Remey Family Records collection that were delivered to over 50 institutions of higher education along with numerous public libraries and the Library of Congress which is the set that these photos were taken from.
As you can see from the scaled human figures in the drafts, this structure would have dwarfed the church itself.

Best Wishes to you all.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

The Remeum Front Elevation View_thumb.JP
The Remeum Side Cutaway Elevation View_t

edit by Cary (the admin): Made thumbnails of huge images, click for full-sized originals.
To the poster (Brody): Always feel free to post huge pictures here. I'll come by after a few days and create thumbnails for them. Better to have the full-size original available than only a tiny thumbnail formatted for web viewing. Thanks for your contributions!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2011 10:03PM by Cary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 03, 2011 12:43PM

Washington DC FEB 3 |

Dear Folks,

Sorry about the gargantuan jpegs of the proposed Remeum addition. I haven't found a way to edit my posts, hence there's no way to 'reduce' them back to the size I intended them to display here.

Now, updates:

Mrs. Remey's death with a very big nod of appreciation to DarkStar. I now have copies of the Washington Post & New York Times articles published the day after her death. I need to note, and once you've read them you may agree, that her so-called suicide was a little more than suspicious. I'll put them up after I get the Copyright DMA permission to reprint them from the Post and the NY Times.

I also am working with a source who has access to some documents regarding the building of the Remeum including the original construction agreements & contracts which I hope to have by the end of the week.

I thank all of you again for your kind remarks here and in the e-mails of which seem to be a rather growing collection which is rather greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carl ()
Date: February 03, 2011 03:25PM

Thank you Brody and all the others who contributed to this page.

I am rather proud of the fact that I explored the Remium in High School. I went to Annandale High and graduated in 1983. This was unfortunately the twilight of the crypts. On beautiful October night 1982 me and two other friends went to the crypts. Yes we were patying and people were climbing all over the place like mice.But the place was awesome on that moonlit night in early october.It had a Romanesque rustic beauty with a creepy undertone the I remember hauted you afterward like ghost breathing on your neck. Shortly afterward as I heard the police came and tear gased everyone out. After that the church destroyed the outside building. We contined to visit as the inside was still intact.
I do remember seeing a tall sealed archway that was sealed with cinder blocks. also there were signs that people had tried to break though the barrier.Nothing but dirt appeared,but as mentioned in this blog was probubly put there to discourage people.
Yet, the crypts ,the stories,and most of all the facinating history and biography of Charles Mason Remey are definately worth pusuit.

I am so happy that this place has not been forgotten but will be given the attention long overdue to it.

Carl

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: darkstar ()
Date: February 03, 2011 03:41PM

Hi Brody:

I'm glad the NY newspaper leads helped. I did run across a couple of Washington Post (pay-per-view) stories and one mentioned that Charles Remey found his wife with one self-inflected gun shot wound and while he was calling for help she fired a second shot.

If Remey called the police then there must be a police/corner report somewhere. These reports may still be around considering the Remey's were important people, roaming around in the higher social circles of D.C.

There were several newspaper articles in the Washington Post of the Remey's hosting dinner parties at their house in D.C.

Thanks again for all of your continued research.

To Edit your postings - go to the bottom of the post you wish to change and click edit and that will enable you to make changes and save them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2011 03:43PM by darkstar.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Follower ()
Date: February 03, 2011 07:52PM

Brody, you can download two free programs that will enable you to modify the size of JPEGS and do a lot of other things
www.getpaint.net
Also www.irfanview.com is very useful

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jeff J ()
Date: February 04, 2011 12:36AM

This is amazing. This temple had to have been planned from the start, but Mason hid his hand. You don't propose something like this without having already built sufficient foundations, which were the crypts themselves.

I remember seeing concrete block walls blocking the axis and blocking the way to the storage room. Since they needed a utility/electric room, I imagine the storage room was really there. Now after seeing his proposed temple, I wonder if the rotunda was actually built, as that's the only section of the crypts that has sufficient foundations for the temple above. It's also about the right scale. But whether the rotunda was built or not, a large structure was certainly planned to go on top of it from its inception.

Brody, I really appreciate all the research. Keep it coming.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jeff J ()
Date: February 04, 2011 12:39AM

And I hope this dispels the idea that there were multiple levels underground, as the temple sketches certainly don't indicate their existence. Any stairs shown on the plans were meant to eventually go up, not down.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 04, 2011 11:00PM

Washington DC FEB 4 |

Dear Folks,

Here is the clipping on the death of Mrs. Remey. I am still researching the facts and should have more details for you all on Saturday.

Please take a hard look at this article as there's a question of plausibility in terms of shots fired and by whom.

The reason I say this is because in the inventory of Mrs. Remey's personal effects & possessions that were donated later by Mr. Remey, one of the items was a War Department authorised- Army issue, Browning-designed, Colt-produced .45 Automatic pistol that had been the property of her first husband,an army Colonel who also committed suicide.

To quote the English author Charles Lutwidge Dodgson better known by his pseudonym Lewis Carroll writing in his epic Alice In Wonderland; "Curiouser and curiouser!"

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 11:01PM by Brody Levesque.
Attachments:
Mrs. C. M.Remey Kills Self 1.jpg
Mrs. C. M.Remey Kills Self 2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Observer of Things ()
Date: February 04, 2011 11:09PM

Those are some mighty big photos there, hoss.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous Fan ()
Date: February 05, 2011 01:36AM

Strange, you don't often hear of self-inflicted head wounds being minor enough to enable the person to pull the trigger a second time. Brody, is that your point about plausibility? Especially since a 45 at point blank range generally would be fatal?

And boy, this society page pulls no punches. They raise their eyebrows at the fact that it was a fast marriage, without lots of events before the wedding -- very gossipy, raising the issue that they needed a rush marriage. I hope you will share what the name of the paper was, and look forward to the next segment.

Finally, in the longitudinal section (which he mis-spelled longitudinal setion) I assume that the very bottom center piece is his own crypt; looks like it is directly below a crypt or something with a human form carved in the top.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: annonymous ()
Date: February 05, 2011 02:02AM

Brody:

Two things.

1. Have you seen:

http://charlesmasonremey.net/

2. Where you aware that the Princeton library has a huge collection of Remey documents? http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/getEad?eadid=C0524&kw=

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: annonymous ()
Date: February 05, 2011 02:03AM

Permanent URL for info on the Princeton library info: http://arks.princeton.edu/ark:/88435/1r66j1172

annonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brody:
>
> Two things.
>
> 1. Have you seen:
>
> http://charlesmasonremey.net/
>
> 2. Where you aware that the Princeton library has
> a huge collection of Remey documents?
> http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/getEad?eadid=C0524
> &kw=

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 05, 2011 07:01PM

Washington DC FEB 5 |

Dear Folks,

Thanks for the Princeton Library info, I shall add it to the growing list of repositories where Mason Remey left copies and donated materials.

Now, the referenced 'charlesmasonrmey dot net' was written and maintained by a Baha'i follower of Mr. Remey, who had an ongoing written correspondence with Remey's adopted Florentine son Pepe Remey who passed away in the mid 1990's.

Here is that gentleman's pedigree:
Based in Boise, Idaho, Dr. Mathieu has over 30 years of experience as a naturopathic physician, and has been practicing natural health care in the Treasure Valley for more than a decade.
One of Idaho's most experienced holistic health care physyicians, Brent is a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (ND), and a Diplomate of the Homeopathic Academy of Naturopathic Physicians (DHANP).

Now, I was asked about the article previously posted. That appeared in the Washington Times-Herald newspaper, which at the time were owned by William Randolph Hearst. Hearst's two Washington papers were the morning Washington Herald and the evening Washington Times which were later combined into one paper by noted socialite Elinor Josephine Medill Patterson, better known as 'Cissy Patterson.' Mrs. Patterson bought the papers from Hearst in 1939.

The gun, well, there are conflicting details swirling around Mrs. Remey's death. Unfortunately, the D. C. Metropolitan Police Department has confirmed that they no longer have any verified records, notes, or files on her death. The District's Medical Examiner as yet has not responded to my freedom of information request so until then, I am seeking out other possibilities.

By the way the Washington Post and New York Times accounts were nearly identical to the Times-Herald's account so I shall treat that as principal background for now.

I question, that if she used the Colt sidearm, exactly how she managed to shoot herself twice as a source in the DC Medical Examiner's office did tell me that any form of survival from that particular caliber hand gun was highly unlikely unless the first shot only grazed her.

Finally, I did an edit/addition to the Fairfax Wiki on this site regarding the Remeum, the text follows this post.

Thanks again for the kind words, e-mails, and encouragement, and to the Observer, yeah, *sigh* those are pretty big pictures hoss....

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

Wiki Text:

Remeum
The Remeum was the name bestowed on the Remey-Mason family mausoleum erected on the glebe of the Truro parish's Pohick Church in Lorton, Virgina, by its architect and builder Charles Mason Remey. Remey's stated intent was to honour his family's contributions to the American nation. The site of the ruins of the Remeum lies approximately 250 yards southwest of the church burial yard and are marked solely by the remains of an obelisk and two brick vent chimney structures with the rest of the complex covered by soil and reforestation since its destruction and demolition in 1983.

Designed by noted Washington D. C. architect and controversial Baha’i faith dignitary, Charles Mason Remey, the Remeum was constructed over a twenty year period commencing in the spring 1937 with the initial land survey and was ongoing until disagreement between the Pohick church vestrymen and Remey resulted in a court action which halted further development in the fall of 1958.

Remey's designs called for an outer walled courtyard with burial niches and crypts, a walled colonnaded atrium entrance to the underground mausoleum which incorporated inclusion of several cenotaphs,chapels and burial crypts. Remey's design also called for a large three story columned and tiered structure built directly over the underground portion. The parish officials objected to the addition of the above ground structure as it would have dwarfed the church, a registered historic landmark.

The completed sections of the complex were the outer courtyards, the atrium, and the underground portion. Costing approximately $2.7 million dollars, the complex featured bas reliefs and sculptures by famed American sculptor Felix de Weldon, the American artist who sculpted the flag-raising Iwo Jima U. S. Marine Corps memorial located adjacent to Arlington Nation cemetery in Rosslyn, Virginia. There were also sculptures by other American artists along with copies of noted Italian masterpieces from the Renaissance period which decorated the various tombs, alcoves, and hallways. The complex was electrified, lit by alabaster chandeliers, had an extensive ventilation system, and was plumbed with waste being delivered to a septic system

The complex was electrified, lit by alabaster chandeliers, had an extensive ventilation system, and was plumbed with waste being delivered to a septic system.
The complex suffered from inadequate security measures and as word spread of its unique design and construction, starting the middle of the 1950's forward, it became a destination for local adolescents and youth as well as adults who ended up inflicting significant damage in acts of wanton vandalism. The problem became severe enough that the local Fairfax County authorities deemed the complex a public nuisance.

As the ten year long court battle ensued and with construction halted, Remey ultimately ceded that the complex would never be completed, relinquishing all rights to the parish in a U. S. District Court agreement in 1968 in Alexandria, Virginia. Remey entrusted removal of family remains including those of his late wife to his brother-in-law, Rear Admiral John Remey Wadleigh who re-interred her remains in the burial yard of the Pohick Church and the others were removed to a family grave-site in Pompey, in Onondaga County New York, south of the city of Syracuse. At the time of the removal of the family remains, Admiral Wadleigh had concrete cinderblocks and dirt wall plugs installed to prevent further access to the inner recesses of the complex. The Pohick church in 1973 had the outer courtyard wall knocked down followed by the atrium in 1976, which left the entrance to the underground complex partially exposed.

The "urban legend" grew spreading throughout the local high schools and other places where young persons congregated, as to the mysterious "crypts" at the Pohick Church where "one could party-hearty" during the middle to late seventies. The site became a destination and numerous illicit gatherings involving underage drinking, mating rituals, and vandalism took place.

As these events took place the complex fell under increasing scrutiny of local law enforcement and became a legal liability to the parish which ultimately contracted with a local road construction company based in nearby Newington, Virginia, to cover over the complex completely and regrade the area so as to eradicate any traces. This was accomplished in the fall of 1983.

Currently the only remaining features of the Remeum are an obelisk honoring Remey's father and mother which stood at one end of the courtyard, south of the inner atrium's entrance, and two chimney/vent structures. The area has been reforested since the 1983 site-work and there are no other visible traces of the complex left.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2011 07:22PM by Brody Levesque.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 05, 2011 09:52PM

Washington DC FEB 5 |

Dear Folks,

The following is a 1958 aerial shot that was submitted as an exhibit in the court case between Remey and the Truro Parish.

Still looking for earlier shots. In this shot, you can clearly see the two access roads and the scaling difference between the church and the proposed footprint of the above ground structure Remey desired to build.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

Post Script:

Forgive the huge size but at least the features are easily discernible.
Attachments:
1958 Aerial of Remeum Site.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jewel ()
Date: February 06, 2011 12:06AM

Hi guys,

Above the vents and a little to the left you can see a pile of building materials left when they halted construction. When I went to visit in the late 70s they were still sitting there. I remember some large marble columns as well though I do not see them in the picture. They would have been around where the words Site or existing are.

Do you think the fact that Admiral Remey was building a "temple" promoting another religion had anything to do with the church withdrawing permission for it's construction? I could understand why they would be upset with someone building something glorifying a non-Christian faith. While the Bahá'í faith includes God, Jesus,and Abraham among its messengers, it also includes Muhammad and Buddha and is definitely not a Christian religion. I listed a link to a general article on Wikipedia about it. Below that is their official site.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith

http://www.bahai.org

Just some more stuff to ponder.

Jewel

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anon ()
Date: February 06, 2011 12:22AM

Found this from "Genealogies in the Library of Congress: A Bibliography"

14241 REMEY. A series of twelve of the preliminary architectural designs for a mausoleum for the Remey Family. By Charles Mason Remey. (n.p., 1954?) 21 l. ports., facsim., plans. 28cm (His Remey family records) 58-3336. CS71.R386 1954.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 06, 2011 10:07AM

Washington DC FEB 6 |

Dear Jewel,

In answer to your question, "Do you think the fact that Admiral Remey was building a "temple" promoting another religion?"
A couple of facts for you. First though, the Admiral didn't build the Remeum. Charles Mason Remey was his son, and in fact, the oldest of six children, one of whom died at birth.

George Collier Remey, Rear Admiral, USN (Retired):

George Collier Remey was born in Burlington, Iowa, the second son of William Butler and Eliza Smith (Howland) Remey. He was a descendant of Abram Remy, a Huguenot who came to Virginia in 1700, and of John Howland, a pilgrim who came in the Mayflower. He entered the United States Naval Academy on September 20, 1855, the youngest and also the smallest of his class, and was graduated fourth among the twenty members of the class of 1859.

Initially assigned to the sloop USS Hartford on the Asiatic Station, he returned to the United States with the outbreak of the Civil War and served in the gunboat Marblehead during the Peninsular Campaign, March–July 1862;

He was in the gunboat Marblehead, operating in Virginia waters during the Peninsular Campaign from March to July, 1862, and afterward on the Charleston blockade. In April 1863, he became executive of the Canandaigua; commanded for ten days the Marblehead during attacks on Fort Wagner; and had charge of a battery of heavy naval guns on Morris Island from August 23 to September 7.

On the night of September 7-8 he commanded the second division in an ill-fated boat attack on Fort Sumter. His boat, the only one of his divisions to make shore, was smashed by gun-fire on landing, and about an hour and a half later Remey and his party were compelled to surrender under the walls of the fort. Of the total force of about 450 only 104 got ashore, and all these were captured. With other officers taken in the attack he was imprisoned during the next thirteen months in the jail at Columbia, South Carolina, making one almost successful attempt at escape by a tunnel under the prison walls.

After his exchange he was executive in the De Soto, fitting out at Baltimore, till the close of the war. He was one of six officers assigned to the White House for two days after Lincoln's assassination, and acted as aide to Farragut at the President's funeral.

In 1866 he saw service off the west coast of South America and in 1870–71 participated in the Tehuantepec Survey Expedition. After commanding the screw sloop Enterprise and service in the Mediterranean, he was appointed captain, 1885, and four years later assumed command of the protected cruiser Charleston, flagship of the Pacific Squadron.
Commandant of the Portsmouth Navy Yard at the outbreak of the Spanish–American War, he was ordered to take charge of the Naval Base Key West, whence he directed the supply and repair of all naval forces in Cuban waters and organized supply lines to Army forces in Cuba.
He was made Rear Admiral in November 1898, and assumed command of the Asiatic station in April 1900, a highly important assignment in view of the Philippine warfare and the Boxer uprising in China. In his flagship Brooklyn he was off Taku from July to October 1900, during the march on Peking, and in 1901 he visited Australia at the opening of its first parliament. After a year as chairman of the Lighthouse Board, he retired Aug. 10, 1903, and lived subsequently in Washington, D. C., and Newport, Rhode Island.

Rear Admiral Remey died at Washington, D.C. on 10 February 1928.

Here's the death notice from The Washington Evening Star newspaper:

Admiral Remey was born in Burlington, Iowa, August 10, 1841, the second son of William Butler Remey and Eliza Smith Howland Remey. He entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis in 1855 and graduated as one of the five honor men of the class. He was married July 8, 1873 to Mary Josephine Mason, daughter of Chief Justice Charles Mason of Iowa.

Besides his widow, Admiral Remey is survived by three sons, Charles Mason Remey and William B. Remey, both of this city, and John Terry Remey of New York City, and two daughters, Miss Angelica G. Remey of this city and Mrs. John W. Wadleigh of Newport, Rhode Island.

Funeral services will be at St. Thomas Episcopal Church Tuesday. Burial will be in Arlington National Cemetery.

Now, moving on to the Baha'i question. In all fairness, that was a substantial although never publicly uttered issue that the vestry and parish members had with Mason Remey's plans to 'expand' the Remeum. On the face of it, they didn't dare make that an issue as it would have been perceived as religious discrimination and naturally that would have been made into a very public battle that ultimately would have embarrassed the church.

So, instead, they took issue with the size of the proposed expansion objecting that it would undermine the Pohick Church's historic status and nature. What I find highly ironic is the fact that in 2006 the church became part of a protected historic district alongside of the fact that it was added to the National Register of Historic Places by the U. S. Department of the Interior's National Park Service on October 16, 1969 nearly a year after winning the court battle with Remey.

Had the church allowed him to proceed, it would have profited immensely from donations as visitors would have naturally visited both the Remeum as well as the church.

More on Remey's role in the Baha'i faith and the global movement later Jewel.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carl ()
Date: February 06, 2011 02:08PM

Dear Cody,

I've been following this site for a month find it facinating as well as personaly rewarding as I visited the crypts in High School.

Question: Did Remey have any death bed confessions, what were his views on death and the afterlife?

Carl

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 06, 2011 10:19PM

WASHINGTON DC FEB 6 |

Re: "Did Remey have any death bed confessions, what were his views on death and the afterlife?"

Dear Carl,

I've had numerous conversations regarding Mason Remey's final years and there's been absolutely no 'confessions' on any particular subject.

To properly answer the second half of your question would require writing a detailed biography of Charles Mason Remey.

Tonight, and yes I am Canadian so since there wasn't a hockey match on due to your American peculiar tradition of men dressing up in plastic bits and foam pads and man-handling each other in rather combative fashion as a pigskin ball is moved from one end of a field of grass to another and in celebration of the best of the best of those who so practise this bloodsport- aka The Superbowl.....

Which I don't/didn't watch *snicker*

Instead I had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Brent Mathieu from Boise, Idaho, who had a nearly 20 year long ongoing correspondence with Pepe Remey, Mason's adopted son. Dr. Mathieu filled in quite a few of the blanks and provided critical background on the various sects within the Baha'i faith along with verification of much of the material collected thus far on Mason Remey.

There is so much material and quite frankly a good deal of data that still needs due diligence before I can safely submit it here for your and the other reader's review.

Now, having said that, I can verify that the Baha'i faith was a critical and key component to Mason Remey's adult life and effected every aspect of his life.

Unfortunately Carl, there's not really a simple answer that I can render in this case as to be fair, this story is like a prism, which as you know, held up to a light source will give off a wide spectrum of light variations in a rainbow burst.

Or, more aptly put, Remey's story is like an onion Carl, you gotta keep peeling back the layers.

More later folks!

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2011 10:19PM by Brody Levesque.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carl ()
Date: February 12, 2011 04:02PM

Thanks Brody,

The more complicated the more intriquing I think.I will follow this site faithfully.


Carl

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 15, 2011 09:31PM

Washington DC FEB 15 |

Dear Folks,

I decided that I needed to give you an update on the progress into researching the Remeum and its accompanying back-story regarding its architect & builder, Mason Remey.

Now, I'm going to state that the following is a journalistic "This is what we know" essay, from which I need to caution the reader that my staff & I are still in the process of establishing facts, in some cases credibility of the source(s), and overall authenticity of materials that were presented as factual.

As I'm sure that Carl, Jewel, Darkstar, Sculler, and the others have pretty much figured out, this story has multiple levels of intrigue, mystery, murder, sexual misconduct, outright fabrications, and deep historical ties to some of the most prominent citizens of not only the United States, but the high society of pre-war Europe and to a lesser degree after the war.

What is most fascinating to those of us that are chasing the story is the many related "6 degrees of separation" Mason Remey had as he clung to the dream of building this monument/tomb/cenotaph to celebrate & honour his family and himself.

Here's what we know:

1.) Based on conversations with a retired construction foreman who was employed by the Shirley Contracting Company based on Cinderbed road in Newington, we have been able to ascertain that the Remeum's main portion located underground was simply buried and graded over in 1983. Shirley Contracting apparently paid to have a demolitions expert examine the structure who reported back that had Shirley and the Pohick Church proceeded with a conventional demolition/leveling- filling in the resultant crater and depression would have been cost prohibitive as it would have required considerable cubic yards of backfill that would have had to have been trucked in.

Instead, according to our source, Shirley simply regraded the rubble from previous efforts in 1972, and 1976, and then added a few dump-truck loads amounting to several 100 cubic yards, creating the current topography that one finds today. He said that a surveyor was hired to specifically to execute the construction layout to set the proper cuts and regrading.

He was able to tell us that the surveyor was a local man named LeRoy deBruin, a resident of West Springfield who owned his own survey outfit. Unfortunately, Mr. deBruin passed away nearly 20 years ago and is buried at the National Cemetery at Marine Corps Base Quantico, Virginia. It would have been nice to interview him as he would have been able to describe from an expert's point of view what the site looked like and some of the details.

Shirley used the same type of equipment that is customarily used for their road construction and VDOT contracts and as a result, the job was accomplished over a 2 day period with only minor adjustments being needed later.

Now, he did indicate that Shirley sent their demo expert into the Remeum to examine it throughly. He said that the man later told him that he had to "wade" through empty beer cans, soda cans, broken bottles, concrete, bits of statuary, and what appeared to be broken friezes. He also remembered the demo guy saying that he was astonished at how large the structure was. Key point, this meant and the retired contracting foreman verified that the demolitions expert had to break through the cinderblocks & dirt plugs to examine the rest of the structure.
He said the man was from an outfit based in Baltimore, Maryland, but couldn't provide any other details.

Now, here's the letdown. Shirley was sold to Clark construction a while ago and sadly, outside of payroll, and some VDOT projects, there are no corporate records left to establish the veracity of the claims. Having said that, the details the source did provide were enough to establish credibility as he had no interest in the story outside of remembering that it was a quick project, and the fact that at the request of the church officials, the obelisk was to remain standing and not be destroyed.

When I asked him about the vent chimneys, he pointed out that the two vents were outside of the surveyed area to be regraded and judging from the heavy brush and undergrowth, they in fact may not have been all that visible.

I showed him aerials taken in 1958, 1972, and more recently in 2001, he graciously pointed out where the topography had changed due to the regrading of the site by Shirley along with the previous demolition efforts. All of the aerials taken in 2010 and 2009, the site is obscured by tree and brush cover so its nearly impossible to tell where the site was.

*****

2.) Now, I have been asked to identify the two central questions regarding Mason's Remeum and its ultimate fate.

Why did he build it in the 1st place?

Why did he simply walk away from it?

Here's what we know. ALL of this intriguing tale revolves around Mason's involvement in the Baha'i religion/faith. I can say with absolute authority that because of this factor in his life, it set the course for virtually everything else to follow.

Mason Remey was the family black sheep because of his adherence/adoption of the Bah'i faith. I think that based on that alone was the motivation for him to build this place to show his commitment to his family.

Coupled with that was the fact, verified, Mason Remey had a monstrous ego. He absolutely lived his life as a damn near "epic" figure, or as one might snark snidely, "a legend in his own mind." It was this sense of "self-importance" that drove him to create this monument.

The second half was why then, would he walk away from it? The truth lies in the conflict within the Baha'i faith that happened after the 1957 death of its spiritual leader who had at one point a six years earlier appointed Remey to a position that would have likely led to Remey's accession to leading the faith as he was very much a critical and key player in the religion.

Through a series of ugly political maneuvering and internecine struggles, Remey lost the opportunity to lead the faith and in fact became a shunned and disparaged outcast of the Baha'i faith.

By the time he died in 1974, he had become a tragic figure, outcast by the very faith that he had helped nurture and build on a global basis, his reputation that of a blasphemer.

Concurrently with the struggles that began in 1957, Remey also was entangled in a fight that would take nearly 11 years to resolve with the Pohick Church over his proposed expansion. Then there was the increasing incidents of vandalism partly encouraged by the mere fact that the church wanted nothing to do with Remey's grandiose memorial especially with the Baha'i elements.

Finally, in 1957, Mason Remey was 82 years old.

So, there's an update, obviously folks there is so much more to the story, and I'll keep updating as we go along.

Please feel free to keep those e-mails flowing, and I promise I shall try to publish more frequently as my regular workload permits.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque
theroadtraveler@gmail.com

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 16, 2011 07:57AM

Thanks again for all the research you've put into this.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Huntington ()
Date: February 16, 2011 01:52PM

Thank you for all of the time and research.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carl ()
Date: February 16, 2011 03:33PM

Thanks again Cody,


Carl

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 16, 2011 10:02PM

Dear Folks,

Given the *ahem* nature of some of your collective nocturnal visits to the Remeum, I thought you'd all get a kick out of the following piece from my colleagues at Reason TV.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque




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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brent P ()
Date: February 17, 2011 03:51AM

That's really interesting. And I don't even drink (I did my share as a young man).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brain ()
Date: February 19, 2011 07:15AM

I guess the main question I have is, were only the exposed structures (like the outer wall) demolished and leveled, leaving the underground portions primarily intact after demolition? And the vents, do they indicate an intact underground structure beneath them? So many things have been suggested on the maps I find it a little confusing. Where are the potentially intact underground portions located on the last good ariel view?

Fun thought, maybe someday the Orthodox Baha'I will want to dig it up and reassemble it. The thought of that mammoth empty sarcophagus remaining underground is intriguing. Thats another question, how much of the complex was removed? Are the stone lions still buried out there somewhere, or did they wind up being taken away to decorate someones estate.

Thanks

John B.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 19, 2011 11:00AM

Bethesda, Maryland FEB 19 |

Dear John B.,

The actual demolition of the Remeum actually took place over a ten year period culminating in the burial/regrading of the site in 1983 by Shirley Contracting Corporation of Newington, Virginia.

The underground portion is completely intact. As I stated in my previous post(s), the source told me that the cost to execute as traditional demolition exceeded the funds made available by the Truro Parish's Pohick Church. The other aspect was that Mason Remey had designed the underground portion to not only carry the weight of the earth over it, but additionally the weight of the proposed aboveground expansion, acting as the foundational supports of that structure.

I have contacted a professional Chicago, Illinois, demolition firm that specialises in demolitions of conventional office buildings and commercial structures. I sent them the specs along with pictures of the interior that were available from the readership here on the forum along with a request to do a "feasibility & cost approach" on demolition of the Remeum v. burial regrade of the site. When I get that information back I shall share it with the readers here.

In regard to the Baha'i faith. The short answer is that there would be absolutely zero interest in an archaeological examination of the site as;

a.) There are no significant items of interest to the Baha'i in the ruins.

b.) Mason Remey was for all intents & purposes to use a Roman Catholic term, excommunicated from the faith.

Now, in purely historic reference and frame, the ruins are significant only in terms of the history of Mason Remey, but it is highly doubtful there are artifacts remaining entombed within the structure of value, however, that is not to say of interest from a historical perspective.

Finally, the Truro Parish has made it absolutely clear that under no circumstances do they, (Rector & Vestry) have any desire to reopen or revisit the Remeum. There is no possible way at this time that I could see the Church officials acceding to a request to explore the ruins. Of course, you never know, stranger things have happened.

I'll have more results from the ongoing research later this weekend.

Be Well

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carl ()
Date: February 19, 2011 05:42PM

I think it would be well worththe effort to resurrect the rememeum. Not just for the historical point but the aesthetic perspective. The place was beautiful especially the outside that could have passed for a mini version of the courts of the palaces of old byzantium.It had class.
After the leveling me and a bunch of my friends found a way inside that was in 1983.
The time I set foot there was in 1988 and the side entrances we used were all filled in only the oblisk remained.

Carl

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jewel ()
Date: February 21, 2011 09:48PM

In answer to Brian, the last time I was there it looked like the outer walls may have been plowed into the fill. It was mostly empty yard behind them until you got to the door to the crypt itself. I don't remember seeing the lions on my first visit, but they may have been buried, the dirt was piled up to the top of the arch, then dug down a bit by the kids who excavated back in.

Mr. Levesque, thanks for the whiskey link to Mount Vernon. My Dad was there when they were building a replica of the round barn. They grabbed him to help lift the beams in place. I gotta say, I love living in this area, there is so much history.

I'd love to see someone do a comprehensive piece on Col. William Fitzhugh and his family. He was an agent for the King who handed out land grants. His friends the Washingtons and Masons ended up with nice chunks of land. He granted himself most of the land in Springfield, Annandale and out to Fairfax where it butted up against land George Mason owned. Backlick Road followed part of a deer trail and was cut out to roll hogsheads of tobacco from his plantation Ravensworth to the Little River Turnpike in Anandale (then spelled with only 2 'n's) where they went to the port in (what is now) Old Town Alexandria. On precolonial maps it is labeled Colonel Fithugh's Rolling Road.

If you look at the family trees of the Masons, Washingtons and Lees, there are quite a few Fitzhughs who pop up here and there. one, Fitzhugh Lee, was Robert E. Lee's nephew and a famous Civil War General and the 40th Governor of Virginia. There is a nice write up of him and several pictures on Wikipedia if anyone is interested. His beard frightens me! =]

Jewel

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 22, 2011 08:31PM

WASHINGTON DC FEB 22 |

Dear Folks,

Here's some more trivia about the Remeum to ponder:

During a deposition given in 1962, Mason Remey testified that he had spent over $2.7 million dollars from inception up till the court ordered cessation of construction.

To give you an idea of the dollar amount Mason Remey would need to expend in today's economic times: $2,700,000.00 in 1958 had the same buying power as $20,530,362.68 in 2010.
Annual inflation over this period was 3.98%.

I have received an answer from the Brandenburg corporation in Chicago, Illinois.
It was the given professional opinion that due to the construction techniques utilised by Mason Remey, a conventional demolition would have been very expensive.
The experts from the firm also indicated that imploding the Remeum would have in fact resulted in a crater like depression that would have taken considerable yards of backfill and hours of grading above the time factor and backfill required to simply bury the Remeum. Here's the firm's website: http://www.brandenburg.com/Default.html

In regard to the Baha'i faith. Apparently I have touched a nerve- make that several. Most of the orthodox Baha'i will absolutely NOT speak on the record about Remey in some cases going so far as to be unwilling to speak about him period.
It is very interesting to see the reactions among the Baha'i to Mr. Remey.

We are still gathering facts and as such I have a tremendous amount of materials, but not enough authentication and verifications oh and yes, plenty of unsubstantiated rumours. I hope that I will be able to add more here shortly.

However, based on what has been discovered and researched I can say with authority that almost all aspects of the Remeum revolved around Mason's Baha'i involvement to some degree including his reasons for building it and most likely his reasons for abandoning it.

For Jewel:

William Fitzhugh (August 24, 1741 – June 6, 1809) was an American planter and statesman who served as a delegate to the Continental Congress for Virginia in 1779.

He was the great-grandson of immigrant Colonel William Fitzhugh who came to Virginia in about 1671 and owned 54,000 acres (220 km²) when he died in 1701. William of Chatham inherited most of the land. As a child he suffered the loss of an eye when accidentally hit with a whip by one of his stepbrothers.

In 1804 Fitzhugh's daughter Mary Lee Fitzhugh was married in the parlor of the Alexandria townhouse to George Washington Parke Custis, grandson of Martha Dandridge Custis Washington and adopted grandson of George Washington. In 1831 their daughter, Mary Anna Randolph Custis, married Robert E. Lee.

Fitzhugh died five years later at the age of 69, leaving behind his three children. He was initially buried at Ravensworth, but when the mansion was destroyed, his remains and gravestone were moved to the Pohick Church graveyard.

Here is a picture of the front of the Ravensworth mansion:

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2011 08:36PM by Brody Levesque.
Attachments:
Ravensworth Plantation 1920-s.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: RavensworthGuy ()
Date: February 23, 2011 09:52AM

Thanks Brody, I grew up in the Ravensworth Farm neighborhood. I believe the Mansion was located where Ravensworth Shopping Center currently sits.

Great stuff on the Remeuem, my older sisters told me stories about going there in the 70s as well. Love all the posts here!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: I'd like to know ()
Date: February 23, 2011 10:18AM

RavensworthGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Brody, I grew up in the Ravensworth Farm
> neighborhood. I believe the Mansion was located
> where Ravensworth Shopping Center currently sits.
>
> Great stuff on the Remeuem, my older sisters told
> me stories about going there in the 70s as well.
> Love all the posts here!
I googled it last night and I got that it was where the ramp from the innerloop to east bound Braddock is now. I will have to look further, but its a topic for another thread.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: JBrother ()
Date: February 23, 2011 11:45AM

This has to be the best thread on this entire site! Everyone keep up the good work and the interesting facts!

On a Ravensworth related note, here are some photos of the old Ravensworth house as well as the stable building. For more photos and drawings check out the Library of Congress web site here http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/VA0405/

JBrother
Attachments:
161643pv.jpg
161644pv.jpg
161650pv.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: February 23, 2011 02:55PM

Very cool photos, thanks for posting them.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: February 25, 2011 11:28PM

Washington DC FEB 25 |

Dear Folks,

I have a wealth of materials that I have been wading through regarding the Remeum which I am hoping to get posted later this weekend.

In the meantime, for Jewel, The Sculler, JBrother, and RavensworthGuy, here's some more information on the Colonel William Fitzhugh plantation, Ravensworth.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque

Ravensworth Replacement House [ Pictured Below ]

On August 1, 1926, the Ravensworth Mansion mysteriously burned down, though the adjacent outbuildings survived. Subsequently, Dr. George Bolling Lee built this smaller farm house on the property. In 1956, the property and buildings were considered as a possible location for the Northern Virginia University - the future George Mason University, which eventually was built near Fairfax City. The property was later sold and developed into the Ravensworth subdivision. The Lee farm house was demolished to make way for the Ravensworth shopping center and industrial area.

The original Ravensworth Mansion was built c. 1797 and became home to William Henry Fitzhugh and his wife Anna Maria. Henry had inherited the Ravensworth property in 1809, while still a minor, upon his father William Fitzhugh's death. Anna Maria's niece, Mary Lee and her husband, Robert E. Lee honeymooned at Ravensworth. During the Civil War, Mary Lee and her children briefly stayed at Ravensworth, but fearing for the safety of her relatives, they moved south to eventually settle in Richmond.

The Fitzhughs, who were childless, had willed the 8,000-acre Ravensworth property to their niece. Mary Lee's death in 1873 preceded Anna Maria's in 1874. Therefore, the estate was divided among the five surviving Lee children. William Henry Fitzhugh Lee inherited the mansion and 500 surrounding acres. By 1922, W. H. F. Lee's property had passed to his son Dr. George Bolling Lee, who used the residence as a summer home and hired overseers to operate the farm.

Dr. George Bolling Lee

Birth: Aug. 31, 1872
Fairfax County
Virginia, USA
Death: Jul. 13, 1948
New York
New York County
New York, USA

George was the son of Gen. William Henry Fitzhugh Lee and Mary Tabb Bolling. He married Helen Keeney.

Obituary from the "New York Times," 14 Jul 1948, page 23,, column 5:

DR. GEORGE B. LEE, GYNECOLOGIST, 75
Physician Here Since 1899 Dies - Grandson of Gen. R.E. Lee Served Many Hospitals

Dr. George Bolling Lee, a gynecologist who had practiced medicine here since 1899 and was a grandson of Gen. Robert E. Lee, Confederate military leader in the Civil War, died yesterday in St. Luke's Hospital after a long illness at the age of 75. His home and office were at 20 East Sixty-sixth Street.

Of Colonial lineage, he was born in Lexington, Va., a great-grandson of Col. Henry (Lighthorse Harry) Lee of the Continental Army and the son of the Late Maj. Gen. William Henry Fitzhugh Lee of the Confederate Army and the late Mrs. Mary Tabb Lee.

Dr. Lee was graduated with an A.B. degree from Washington and Lee University in 1893 and received his M.D. in 1896 from the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University. In 1934, Dr. Lee and Maj. Gen. Ulysses G. Grant 3d, (USA (retired), and grandson of the man to whom Gen. Robert E. Lee surrendered in 1865, received honorary LL.D. degrees from Gettysburg (Pa.) College, where General Lee fought and lost his greatest battle. The grandsons shook hands.

Practiced Since 1899. An interne at Bellevue Hospital in 1896-99, Dr. Lee then commenced to practice medicine, continuing until his death. He was formerly an associate surgeon at Women's Hospital and visiting gynecologist at Bellevue Hospital and the Hospital for Joint Diseases. He also was formerly Professor of Gynecology and Obstetrics at the Polyclinc Medical School and Hospital. At one time his office was in the Plaza Hotel.

He was formerly honorary president of the board of directors of the Robert E. Lee Memorial Foundation, which acquired and restored Stratford Hall, his grandfather's Virginia birthplace, as a national shrine. On April 9, 1928, sixty-three years to the day after General Lee's surrender, Dr. Lee was a guest of honor as his son, Robert E. Lee 4th, now a student at Washington and Lee gave the signal that revealed to assembled thousands the equestrian statue of General Lee carved in granite on the wall of Stone Mound, Georgia, as part of the Lee Memorial. The late James J. Walker, then Mayor of New York, accepted the memorial on behalf of the nation.... Dr. Lee served as a captain and contract surgion with the United States Volunteers. In the first World War, he was a captain in the Army Medical Officers Reserve Corps....

Besides his son, he leaves his wife, Mrs. Helen Keeney Lee, whom he wed in 1920, and a daughter, Miss Mary W. Lee of New York.

Burial:
Lee Chapel Museum
Lexington (Lexington City County)
Lexington City
Virginia, USA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2011 06:29PM by Brody Levesque.
Attachments:
Dr. George Bolling Lee Ravensworth Farm.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: March 07, 2011 09:17PM

Washington DC MAR 7 |

Dear Folks,

As we continue to solidify leads and information on the Remeum, my staff and I have a small favour to ask of the readership here.

For those of you who would be interested in participating, we would deeply appreciate e-mails to the address below and in those mails, please tell us your experiences about the Remeum including how you heard about it etc.

I'd appreciate factual accounts and not second hand or "I was told that..." accounts as I am trying to document first hand accounts of the experiences.
Now, I would like your actual names but if that is not possible then I will be more than happy to use you 'net handle' or an alias of your choice.

Thanks to all.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque

e-mail: theroadtraveler@gmail.com

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: RavensworthGuy ()
Date: March 08, 2011 10:47AM

Brody Levesque Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Washington DC FEB 25 |
>
> Dear Folks,
>
> I have a wealth of materials that I have been
> wading through regarding the Remeum which I am
> hoping to get posted later this weekend.
>
> In the meantime, for Jewel, The Sculler, JBrother,
> and RavensworthGuy, here's some more information
> on the Colonel William Fitzhugh plantation,
> Ravensworth.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Brody Levesque
>
> Ravensworth Replacement House [ Pictured Below ]
>
> On August 1, 1926, the Ravensworth Mansion
> mysteriously burned down, though the adjacent
> outbuildings survived. Subsequently, Dr. George
> Bolling Lee built this smaller farm house on the
> property. In 1956, the property and buildings were
> considered as a possible location for the Northern
> Virginia University - the future George Mason
> University, which eventually was built near
> Fairfax City. The property was later sold and
> developed into the Ravensworth subdivision. The
> Lee farm house was demolished to make way for the
> Ravensworth shopping center and industrial area.
>
> The original Ravensworth Mansion was built c. 1797
> and became home to William Henry Fitzhugh and his
> wife Anna Maria. Henry had inherited the
> Ravensworth property in 1809, while still a minor,
> upon his father William Fitzhugh's death. Anna
> Maria's niece, Mary Lee and her husband, Robert E.
> Lee honeymooned at Ravensworth. During the Civil
> War, Mary Lee and her children briefly stayed at
> Ravensworth, but fearing for the safety of her
> relatives, they moved south to eventually settle
> in Richmond.
>
> The Fitzhughs, who were childless, had willed the
> 8,000-acre Ravensworth property to their niece.
> Mary Lee's death in 1873 preceded Anna Maria's in
> 1874. Therefore, the estate was divided among the
> five surviving Lee children. William Henry
> Fitzhugh Lee inherited the mansion and 500
> surrounding acres. By 1922, W. H. F. Lee's
> property had passed to his son Dr. George Bolling
> Lee, who used the residence as a summer home and
> hired overseers to operate the farm.
>
> Dr. George Bolling Lee
>
> Birth: Aug. 31, 1872
> Fairfax County
> Virginia, USA
> Death: Jul. 13, 1948
> New York
> New York County
> New York, USA
>
> George was the son of Gen. William Henry Fitzhugh
> Lee and Mary Tabb Bolling. He married Helen
> Keeney.
>
> Obituary from the "New York Times," 14 Jul 1948,
> page 23,, column 5:
>
> DR. GEORGE B. LEE, GYNECOLOGIST, 75
> Physician Here Since 1899 Dies - Grandson of Gen.
> R.E. Lee Served Many Hospitals
>
> Dr. George Bolling Lee, a gynecologist who had
> practiced medicine here since 1899 and was a
> grandson of Gen. Robert E. Lee, Confederate
> military leader in the Civil War, died yesterday
> in St. Luke's Hospital after a long illness at the
> age of 75. His home and office were at 20 East
> Sixty-sixth Street.
>
> Of Colonial lineage, he was born in Lexington,
> Va., a great-grandson of Col. Henry (Lighthorse
> Harry) Lee of the Continental Army and the son of
> the Late Maj. Gen. William Henry Fitzhugh Lee of
> the Confederate Army and the late Mrs. Mary Tabb
> Lee.
>
> Dr. Lee was graduated with an A.B. degree from
> Washington and Lee University in 1893 and received
> his M.D. in 1896 from the College of Physicians
> and Surgeons of Columbia University. In 1934, Dr.
> Lee and Maj. Gen. Ulysses G. Grant 3d, (USA
> (retired), and grandson of the man to whom Gen.
> Robert E. Lee surrendered in 1865, received
> honorary LL.D. degrees from Gettysburg (Pa.)
> College, where General Lee fought and lost his
> greatest battle. The grandsons shook hands.
>
> Practiced Since 1899. An interne at Bellevue
> Hospital in 1896-99, Dr. Lee then commenced to
> practice medicine, continuing until his death. He
> was formerly an associate surgeon at Women's
> Hospital and visiting gynecologist at Bellevue
> Hospital and the Hospital for Joint Diseases. He
> also was formerly Professor of Gynecology and
> Obstetrics at the Polyclinc Medical School and
> Hospital. At one time his office was in the Plaza
> Hotel.
>
> He was formerly honorary president of the board of
> directors of the Robert E. Lee Memorial
> Foundation, which acquired and restored Stratford
> Hall, his grandfather's Virginia birthplace, as a
> national shrine. On April 9, 1928, sixty-three
> years to the day after General Lee's surrender,
> Dr. Lee was a guest of honor as his son, Robert E.
> Lee 4th, now a student at Washington and Lee gave
> the signal that revealed to assembled thousands
> the equestrian statue of General Lee carved in
> granite on the wall of Stone Mound, Georgia, as
> part of the Lee Memorial. The late James J.
> Walker, then Mayor of New York, accepted the
> memorial on behalf of the nation.... Dr. Lee
> served as a captain and contract surgion with the
> United States Volunteers. In the first World War,
> he was a captain in the Army Medical Officers
> Reserve Corps....
>
> Besides his son, he leaves his wife, Mrs. Helen
> Keeney Lee, whom he wed in 1920, and a daughter,
> Miss Mary W. Lee of New York.
>
> Burial:
> Lee Chapel Museum
> Lexington (Lexington City County)
> Lexington City
> Virginia, USA


Very cool stuff Brody, thanks again! I am going to talk to an old friend that went to Lee HS back in the 70's and hung out at Cripts and with Hells Angels back then. I'll be sure to send anything interesting that I hear from him.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carlo ()
Date: March 12, 2011 07:54PM

I thought the Pagans held out at the crypts?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Ravensworthguy ()
Date: March 12, 2011 10:34PM

Carlo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought the Pagans held out at the crypts?

I meant the Pagans, my fault.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carlo ()
Date: March 20, 2011 12:35PM

Has anyone written into Brody's web.theroadtraveler@gmail.com

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: March 22, 2011 10:40PM

WASHINGTON DC MAR 22 |

Dear Folks,

I need to beg your indulgence as this past few weeks worth of work related events the news cycles with earthquakes/tsunamis/nuclear meltdowns/Egypt/Libya- ad infinitum nauseum, has left me unable to grab a spare moment or two to work on the Remeum story project.

Hopefully, barring another natural disaster or armed conflict to report on I'll be able to dive back into the story. I should note that I have received a considerable number of e-mails from Baha'i believers who have generously provided my staff and I with a significant amount of information regarding Mason Remey.

I have also been grateful to receive e-mails from several folk who "partied" at the "crypts" with some details of their experiences/personal history. I am encouraged by this and again, here's my e-mail if you'd be willing to share your experiences: theroadtraveler@gmail.com You may remain anonymous should you desire.

Thanks again for your patience, I remain,

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2011 10:42PM by Brody Levesque.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S. ()
Date: March 24, 2011 04:53AM

In the sunner of 1981 or 1982, I was hanging out at the ALANO Club near 7 Corners and went with a few teenagers to The Crypts at about 2am. We went inside and I remember seeing a plaque that has not been mentioned before. I can't remember the exact wording, but it basically said that the original designs or blueprints were at a University (Harvard or Yale?).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Carl o ()
Date: April 05, 2011 11:45AM

Hey,

Hows progress going Brody or anyone else

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: April 05, 2011 08:54PM

Bethesda, Maryland APR 5 |

Dear Carl & folks here,

I have been receiving hundreds of e-mails from Baha'i faithful on the subject of Mason Remey.

What is amazing to consider is that nearly 50 years after the turmoil in the Baha'i faith, Remey still generates tremendous controversy & debate that at time is quite acrimonious.

To be honest, the events of the past couple of months have precluded my being able to devote any particular time towards the Remeum project, although, I did have a brilliant conversation & interview with the demolitions expert who as far as I can determine was the last person to explore and tour the entire complex shortly before it was buried and covered over by the Pohick Church for the last time in 1983.

Although in his late seventies, I found him to be quite lucid and his descriptions were illuminating. Sadly, I have to report that the gentleman unfortunately did not make a photographic record of his appraisal of the complex for the suitability of a controlled demolition v. the eventual burial thus once again I am in search of photos which may well turn out to be impossible to locate or have long since ceased to exist.

I also again want to thank the readers here who have been sending me their personal stories and "tales from the crypts" which have provided me with a fascinating glimpse into the teen-aged sub-culture of the late 1960's through to the early 1980's in regard to the "parties at the crypts."

I would again ask that you folks keep those stories coming to me at my email address which is: theroadtraveler@gmail.com

Should I get a longer break here from the news cycle, I intend to write out an outline and some facts that have been uncovered along with tidbits from the Bahia'i communications and the research.

Thanks again for your collective patience folks, I appreciate it.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: ft hunt ()
Date: April 06, 2011 06:10AM

Use to hear it was a hangout for the Pagans

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Mullen ()
Date: April 06, 2011 06:53PM

Thank you Brody. Your efforts on this research-item are appreciated and followed by myself and probably many other silent readers? Please keep us informed on your developing research. It is fascinating and wanting to learn more. Thanks!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Ravensworthguy ()
Date: April 16, 2011 10:35AM

I talked to my friend who hung out with the Pagans as a teenager who said there are definitely more levels in the crypts. He mentioned how it graded down into other chambers and said he went "pretty far" in there meaning that there was a lot more than even he saw. He also said he was in there when the bodies were still there. He said there was an area that had coffins in the walls and how people vandalized them. It was all behind the cinderblock wall in the photos.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: 2ndhandinfo ()
Date: May 05, 2011 01:01AM

I talked to both my parents and I don't believe the 1983 date is correct. My dad and a family friend went down to the crypts and they were still uncovered when they were at a wedding at Pohick Church in 1985(I checked with the person who was married that day as to the year). I can tell you they did not go into the crypts very far if at all but they at least poked there heads into the opening of the crypt with a flashlight.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jenna Talia ()
Date: May 05, 2011 04:09AM

I've officially spent in the vicinity of 4 hours reading every single post in this thread. I've only lived in the area for a year and a half, and this is quite possibly one of the most intriguing tales I've ever encountered.

I don't have anything to add to the story, but I'm totally interested in this piece of history. I know the church is dead set against any sort of re-entry to the crypt, and that is truly disheartening. From the various descriptions here, it seems it is of some serious historical and architectural value. Even though the carvings, statues, et al are severely damaged, it still piques my interest as to what is salvagable from the crypt. It seems such a shame that years of vandalism brought an end to what is such a treasure.

I plan on continuing to follow this thread with great interest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2011 04:09AM by Jenna Talia.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: May 05, 2011 07:29AM

It's been a while since I've heard from Brody.

I might try and go out there and poke around, to see what the state of things are.

Maybe we can kickstart some life back into this thread.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Bubble Boy ()
Date: May 05, 2011 10:56AM


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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: May 05, 2011 11:21AM

I think this thread has long since surpassed anything Norvapics has. When this thread first started, I found Norvapics through my searches and tried to start an account to access their pictures and it didn't work. I even contacted the moderator to see if he could help and explained to him how excited I was to find out about this long-lost, local history. His only reply was that he was just interested in taking peoples' money if they wanted to see what pictures Norvapics had to offer.

The joke's on him. In the end, someone on this thead boosted pictures of their site anyway and posted them. Like I said, this thread has much more information on the Crypts than Norvapics could ever hope to offer.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Jenna Talia ()
Date: May 05, 2011 06:09PM

I know it's wishful thinking, and maybe a bit macabre, but wouldn't it be interesting if a private investor purchased the property and repaired the crypt, opening it up for viewing as a "historical building"? I wonder if it's even financially viable. Would enough people give a damn enough to spend some admission dollars to check it out? I know I'd spend a few bucks to go check it out...

Too bad the church never embraced the idea years ago. I'm really interested in what the interior looks like..

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: May 05, 2011 10:39PM

WASHINGTON DC MAY 5 |

Dear Folks,

As I previously have stated, my principal means of earning a living is as a journalist, freelancing for two major wire services, and as I'm certain you have all noted, there certainly hasn't been a lack of "news" to cover.

I have to admit, starting off with earthquakes, then a tsunami topped of with a nuclear disaster certainly was interesting. Then there was Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen with a finishing touch of Libya and for added excitement a Royal wedding and this past weekend, the hunt for the world's most despised terrorist ended.

In between was Tea party fights, a budget crisis, politicos at each other's throats and I gotta tell you all, my days were VERY long indeed.

So, again, I apologise if I've been absent in posting here but I haven't had time to edit through all of your marvelous e-mails and leads that my staff and I are still chasing.

To the gentleperson who thought 1983 was not the correct date. [ 2ndhandinfo ] This is the date that I have been given by the church as well as an official with Shirley Contracting as to the final "cover-up" if you will, of the Remeum.
Now, as we perform due diligence on all aspects of this story, should that fact stand corrected, I will be more than happy to publish the verified date.

At this time, 1983 seems to match the available documentation as well as the oral history we've been collecting.

Dear Mr. Sculler, I need to thank you for your continuing support of my efforts along with everyone here who reads this thread and contributes. Especially those of you who have e-mailed with your personal stories which are bloody marvelous. Cheers for that eh?

Now, a brief update. We now have in our possession copies of the actual construction blueprints which I have sent to a friend who works with an architectural firm. I am hopeful that we will be able to "shrink" the blueprints down into manageable jpeg or png formats so that I can share them with you folks.

Also, apparently Admiral Wadleigh had left some journal entries and letters that pertain to his actions on behalf of Mason Remey regarding the reinterments of the family remains as well as Mrs. C. M. Remey. We are in contact with the source who has knowledge of these documents and I am hopeful that I will or my assistant will be able to view and duplicate them. This would especially be beneficial in identifying the contractor that installed the three cinderblock and dirt plugs at the time the Admiral moved the remains in compliance with the U. S. District Court order & agreement.

Finally, I need to gently caution & remind folks that the Remeum is located on the glebe of the Pohick Church which is private property quite obviously. The church vestry and the warden-sexton take a very dim view of trespassing on the site of the Remeum for, well, shall we say, obvious reasons? Even after nearly 27 years since its being covered over for the last time, its still very much a hot-button with the church.

Thanks again for the all of the e-mails, please keep them coming. I also must thank the rather large Baha'i readership who have been following this thread and taking a rather keen interest in the story.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Service LLC
Washington D. C.
theroadtraveler@gmail.com
(202) 556-0877



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2011 10:40PM by Brody Levesque.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: May 06, 2011 09:28PM

Charles Mason Remey intrigues me the more I study him. I found a scanned version of a book he wrote that included drawings for his suggestion of the first Baha'i Temple (Mashrek El Azkar) in the United States. He wrote this in 1920, about 17 years before he started building "The Crypts"...
Attachments:
Elevation.PNG
Section.PNG
Capture2.PNG
Capture3.PNG
East Elevation.PNG
Capture9.PNG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: May 06, 2011 10:00PM

Here is another, earlier book Charles Mason Remey wrote concerning the first Baha'i Temple in The United States. It was written in 1917, and includes 9 different designs for the Temple (9 has a special meaning to the Baha'i, that's why there are 3 nines on Remey's empty sarcophagus in The Crypts). There are so many drawings and information, I included the entire book in PDF. The cornerstone was layed in 1912, in Wilmette, IL, near Chicago, and The Temple was finally finished in 1953.
Attachments:
Mashrak-El-Azkar 1917.pdf

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Ms ProVallone ()
Date: May 17, 2011 06:35PM

I took this from a friend of mine's facebook page. I assume this was taken sometime in the early 80's.
Attachments:
Remey crypts, Pohick, VA.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: May 18, 2011 11:27AM

Ms ProVallone...

Thanks for the picture, but someone already posted it on the first page of this thread. Do you have any other pictures that haven't been posted?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 02, 2011 04:38PM

Father and Mother of Charles Mason Remey, buried in Arlington Cemetery. Photo taken May 29, 2011.

REAR ADMIRAL
GEORGE COLLIER REMEY
UNITED STATES NAVY
1841-1928

MARY MASON REMEY
1845-1938

REMEY

...

DSC01720_thumb.JPG

edit by Cary: Made thumbnail of huge image. Click for full-size original.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 12:50PM by Cary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 02, 2011 04:43PM

Brother and Sister-In-Law of Charles Mason Remey, Arlinton Cemetery. Photo taken 5-29-2011.


JOHN TERRY REMEY
LIEUTENANT J.G. U.S.N.
JULY 9, 1890
NOVEMBER 9, 1960

HIS WIFE
MARGARET HOWARD REMEY
JULY 13, 1892
MARCH 28, 1974

...

DSC01721_thumb.JPG

edit by Cary: Made thumbnail of huge image. Click for full-size original.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 12:51PM by Cary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 02, 2011 04:48PM

Nephew of Charles Mason Remey, Arlington Cemetery. Photo taken 5-29-2011.

GEORGE REMEY
WADLEIGH

LIEUTENANT U.S.N.R.
1920-1950

He that soweth to the Spirit shall
of the Spirit reap life everlasting

...
Attachments:
DSC01722.JPG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 02, 2011 04:53PM

The 3 previous graves I posted of Charles Mason Remey's relatives buried in Arlington Cemetery are shown in perspective to one another. Photo taken May 29, 2011.


...

DSC01723_thumb.JPG

edit by Cary: Made thumbnail of huge image. Click for full-size original.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 12:52PM by Cary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Ut videam ()
Date: June 02, 2011 04:54PM

Thanks for the pictures, but would it have killed you to scale them down?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 02, 2011 05:06PM

This stone bench is located in the cemetery at Pohick Church. It is along the treeline at the bottom of the hill overlooking from a distance The Remeum.

Rumors to this day suggest that Charles Mason Remey may have killed his wife of 1 year, though the "official" cause is suicide. The inscription on the bench is telling, was Charles "rejoicing" or "sorrowing"...?

GREETING FROM THE BUILDER OF THE REMEUM
TO THOSE THAT SIT HERE REJOICING
TO THOSE THAT SIT HERE SORROWING
AS HE HIMSELF HS DONE IN DAYS PAST

...

DSC01728_thumb.JPG

DSC01729_thumb.JPG

edit by Cary: Made thumbnails of huge images. Click for full-size originals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 12:55PM by Cary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 02, 2011 05:22PM

This grave is located in the cemetery at Pohick Church. It is close to the treeline at the bottom of the hill overlooking from a distance The Remeum.

This is the grave of the wife of Charles Mason Remey. She was originally entombed in the Remeum, and hers is the only remains from the Remeum still located on the property.

Compared to many of the graves at Pohick, this headstone is not very substantial in thickness or quality. The engraving has an error in the roman numeral of her birth year (1388 instead of 1888). We had to pull the headstone up out of the ground to get the picture (we replaced it) because the last 2 lines were below ground level. There is no base for this headstone which is approximately 1-1/4" thick.

If you look at the second picture below, you will see the bench in the previous post. It is down the hill and approximately 20' to the right...

IN
AFFECTIONATE MEMORY
OF
MY WIFE
GERTRUDE HEIM REMEY
MCCCLXXXVIII-MCMXXXII
OUR MARRIAGE
WAS SOLEMNIZED IN
THE PRO CATHEDRAL CHURCH
OF
THE HOLY TRINITY
PARIS FRANCE
ON THE ELEVENTH DAY OF JULY
MCMXXXI

...

DSC01730_thumb.JPG

DSC01731_thumb.JPG

edit by Cary: Made thumbnails of huge images. Click for full-size originals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 12:56PM by Cary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: June 03, 2011 12:01AM

WASHINGTON DC | JUNE 2ND

Dear Folks,

The pictures that Steve has provided need to be footnoted in terms of the very last two pictures he has provided.

The "headstone" actually was an engraved plaque that was embedded in the wall behind the head of the sarcophagus of Gertrude S. H. Remey in the wall inside her burial niche in the Remeum.

When the Admiral had her remains removed & reinterred in the Pohick glebe's burial yard, the workman pried the plaque off the wall & used it as a grave marker/headstone which is why it has the appearance that Steve noted.

The above bench which Steve photographed was originally located in the outer courtyard of the Remeum and was also relocated by the Admiral.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque


P. S.

The research continues into the life & times of Charles Mason Remey which has turned out to be an absolutely spell binding tale. My abject apologies for not posting at least an occasional update folks.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Wow people keep taking my names ()
Date: June 03, 2011 11:38AM

This shit is kinda cool i wanna check it out!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: waldo ()
Date: June 04, 2011 06:59PM

where is this place

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 05, 2011 02:38PM

Brody,
Any explanation for the year 1388 being engraved on the plaque for Gertrude? Charles seemed to be pretty meticulous in his mausoleum and I don't find many misprints in his writings...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Brody Levesque ()
Date: June 05, 2011 10:06PM

WASHINGTON DC | JUNE 5

Dear Steve,

Actually I have no explanation as there's nothing documented as far as the materials we've collected, the only plausible explanation is that it was an error on the part of the stone's engraver which possibly may have been overlooked or missed.

Interesting though.


Brody

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Will ()
Date: June 10, 2011 12:18AM

You are mistaken regarding any likelihood that Remey could succeed Shoghi Effendi as head of the Baha'i Faith. The successor Guardian would have had to be a male offspring of Shoghi Effendi (he had no children and Mason Remey was not a descendant), have been so designated explicitly during Shoghi Effendi's lifetime (Shoghi Effendi designated no one to succeed him in the guardianship), and been confirmed by secret ballot of a majority of a body of nine Hands of the Cause of God (Shoghi Effendi never presented the name of a successor for such a confirmation to the Hands of the Cause of God). There are two institutions of the Baha'i Faith that are linked but may operate without the other being present: the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice. Shoghi Effendi designated the Body of the Hands of the Cause of God as chief stewards to carry forward his plans until the election of the Universal House of Justice in 1963. The Universal House of Justice is the head of the Baha'i Faith and Shoghi Effendi was the only Guardian. The 6 million members of the Baha'i community are faithful and correct in this. Mr. Remey was ego-filled and approaching senility in 1961 when he made his startling claims to be the "hereditary Guardian."

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Will ()
Date: June 10, 2011 12:29AM

"Brain" mentioned that "maybe someday the Orthodox Baha'I [sic] will want to dig it up and reassemble it." This is doubtful. Remey's handful of followers split into competing factions after their excommunication from the Baha'i community. It is questionable that a couple dozen people who constitute that group would have the funds necessary. From a Baha'i perspective, the razing of the Remeum was the result of Remey's own self-importance, faithlessness and egotism. The Remeum is an interesting sidelight on a life that took bizarre turns as Remey aged, but it will likely remain a ruin and an example, like the monuments in the famed poem "Ozymandias."

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Steve S ()
Date: June 10, 2011 01:55AM

Will,
Does a mental illness like senility, and the actions it produces, give cause for excommunication from the Bahai faith? If so, that is sad that a mental illness is a justifiable prejudice of the Bahai. I am not really sure he was senile, considering he did so much the final 16 years of his life (1963-1974), but you stated he was...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: brentp ()
Date: June 10, 2011 02:40AM

Steve S -- just a thought, because I've read all of this literature, and have written about it extensively. Mr Remey was not an example of a senile man, whose conduct was excusable and understandable. That wasn't what happened, and the excommunication was not a hard-hearted measure by cold people. I've met 9 of the Hands and they were genuinely gentle and kind and humble people.

The only comparison I can give, without going into a whole lot of history and theology that is way beyond what the folks on this site are interested in -- is to say that it would be roughly comparable to one of the 12 Apostles of Christ saying to the Christian community, "Ignore the life's work and the words of the other 11 Apostles; ignore the New Testament; dismantle the entire Christian community, it's all off-base. Follow me, reject the others, I'm starting an entirely new religion." I won't bore you with the specifics, but for those who are interested in that topic, there's a letter here from Mr Remey that is what I'm talking about.
http://bahai-library.com/uhj/aqdas.expulsion-cbs.html It's near the bottom, where Mr Remey is talking about the "mistake" made by the Head of the Baha'i Faith, where Mr Remey talks about dismantling the entire life's work of the man he claims to be the hereditary successor to (an American claiming to be the hereditary successor to a man of Persian extraction born in the Holy Land 24 years after Mr Remey was.) Suffice it to say, it gets pretty crazy. And I won't discuss it further here. I have a website on the subject. I just want to clarify that one point -- Mr Remey was not kicked out because of understandable senility. It was far more calculating and potentially harmful than that.
Best regards
Brent