Damn, Foster & Silver Diner are closed already? Bring back the bars!

Woody's Ice Cream is moving into Old Town Fairfax, in time for next season. He was going to move to the building behind his current stand, but now the plan is to move right into Old Town.

That Foster's was good..just a bad location. Metro Silver Diner..not that good and always empty...you could see that one coming. They had planned to turn it into a mini Town Center area but then the economy went bad and half of the units are still empty.

Whoever owns the property now is probably heading for a foreclosure soon. That place was already a bad implementation of a good idea. They were supposed to build residential units on the property the old library is sitting on currently - that won't be happening anytime soon.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

For those that voted on the "first" additional taxes referendum, you'll remember there was supposed to be a movie theatre there, and some other useful stuff. But that got nixed in favor of offices and other useless bullshit. Then came the "second" additional taxes referendum after they wasted the money from the "first" referendum. Now look what all those additional taxes got us.

This was a bad idea from the start. Some council member got a wild hair up his/her butt and thought they could make a "water front" type of city center that would attract people from miles around. Instead, what we have is a dead business zone, a big empty parking garage, confused drivers and a colossal waste of the taxpayers money.

Can't wait for the "third" tax referendum.

Well, you know why we ended up without theaters? They didn't want to have to deal with widening 123 or coming up with an alternative traffic pattern like using part of University Dr and redoing the bridge to redirect University over to 123. So they decided to scale back.

Originally there was supposed to be a 10 screen theater, a Barnes and Nobles (where the parking lot is next to Old Town Hall), and a Magiannos. That would have actually made sense, and added a "draw" quality to the area. But they figured the 123 issue would be too sticky and they might not get re-elected so they left it alone. They wanted a sort of mini-Chevy Chase and instead got more ho-hum BS.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Really? Thanks for sharing.

Seriously, who was in charge of this crap? Post the names. What a f'ing waste.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, you know why we ended up without theaters?
> They didn't want to have to deal with widening 123
> or coming up with an alternative traffic pattern
> like using part of University Dr and redoing the
> bridge to redirect University over to 123. So they
> decided to scale back.
>
> Originally there was supposed to be a 10 screen
> theater, a Barnes and Nobles (where the parking
> lot is next to Old Town Hall), and a Magiannos.
> That would have actually made sense, and added a
> "draw" quality to the area. But they figured the
> 123 issue would be too sticky and they might not
> get re-elected so they left it alone. They wanted
> a sort of mini-Chevy Chase and instead got more
> ho-hum BS.


That's all true, what I don't understand even more is why we have a parking garage to hold 600 cars if there is no theatre, no B&N and now no restaurants?
In my opinion, this is Grand Theft and there should be indictments for those responsible for squandering all that tax money.

I truly believe that Fairfax city was more appealing before all this.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's all true, what I don't understand even more
> is why we have a parking garage to hold 600 cars
> if there is no theatre, no B&N and now no
> restaurants?

I've only been in that garage a couple of times... so not trying to be a smartass, but does it hold 600 cars? It looks big, but I was never sure how many cars it could hold. If it is that big.. wow.. what a waste.

wtfno Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I've only been in that garage a couple of times...
> so not trying to be a smartass, but does it hold
> 600 cars? It looks big, but I was never sure how
> many cars it could hold. If it is that big.. wow..
> what a waste.


The exact number is 558 parking spaces in the parking garage.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, you know why we ended up without theaters?
> They didn't want to have to deal with widening 123
> or coming up with an alternative traffic pattern
> like using part of University Dr and redoing the
> bridge to redirect University over to 123. So they
> decided to scale back.
>
> Originally there was supposed to be a 10 screen
> theater, a Barnes and Nobles (where the parking
> lot is next to Old Town Hall), and a Magiannos.
> That would have actually made sense, and added a
> "draw" quality to the area. But they figured the
> 123 issue would be too sticky and they might not
> get re-elected so they left it alone. They wanted
> a sort of mini-Chevy Chase and instead got more
> ho-hum BS.

Were these part of the master plan that sold everyone on the redevelopment? If so, how did things change from something that sounds pretty worthwhile to a confusing mish-mash of roads with no real reason to stop

The usual, some older residents with money and pull bitched and moaned to the Council about how the City couldn't deal with that kind of change, and they didn't want to tackle the 123 widening/correction,, so they punted and went for a smaller footprint.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Really? Thanks for sharing.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The usual, some older residents with money and
> pull bitched and moaned to the Council about how
> the City couldn't deal with that kind of change,
> and they didn't want to tackle the 123
> widening/correction,, so they punted and went for
> a smaller footprint.


Rt. 123 is going to have to be widened anyway, now that people are onto it being an alternative to 28 and 95. It's already a goatfuck going through old town anywhere near rush hour.

The latest is they want to close all the car repair shops on Draper Dr in Fairfax. No idea what they want to put in their place, but it's typical of Fairfax. They chased away most of the car dealerships, many of the gas stations, and then they keep ripping up Main St for 'something better'. Looks pretty, but it was a waste of money and time.

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They chased away most of the car
> dealerships, many of the gas stations,

Do tell...

Funny, I only know of one main dealership that closed/changed, and that was part of a larger automotive group that decided to change out their Isuzu dealership. Another one was leasing the land at the corner of 50/123 (I am pretty sure) and the City made them put up fencing/screening I thought while they were storing cars there. But I have not seen "Most" of the dealerships leave town.

As far as gas stations go, that had little to do with the City, and everything to do with the Oil Companies. Main St Shell left because they got in a dispute with Shell who had originally paid the lease on their property. When Shell declined to pay the lease for them again, they closed their doors. Again, not seeing a lot of gas station closing in the City, and certainly not "many".

Just not sure what you are trying to prove with those statements. As far as Draper Dr goes, where did you get that information from? Most of those places are as dependent on the economy like any other business - and theirs are not high margin enterprises. It is always possible these places are closing on their own, if at all. Today though I saw a for sale sign on the little restaurant on the corner next to McDonald's near St Paul VI. I am sure a lot of businesses are going to close up/turn over in the next few months.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

The problem with Old Town Fairfax is that the've tried to squeeze too much into a small area. It's not really an ideal outdoor shopping experience - the sidewalks are narrow and there is no barrier between traffic and the sidewalks. I loathe walking through Old Town Fairfax for this reason alone. Sadly, the businesses don't appeal and parking is a hassle. It's more convenient to shop and eat elsewhere. Traffic keeps getting worse. The parking lots are gravel save the 600 space parking garage.

I just dropped my Lifetime membership because of the parking lot situation in that shopping center. Getting in and out of there is too much trouble. Too much pedestrian traffic. Too much car traffic.

Just looking at a map, OTF appears to be a town one can walk or bike to places conveniently however, once you're in OTF you soon realize there is just way too much traffic and the sidewalks are too narrow to feel safe walking or biking.

When my husband read the sign that City of Fairfax was voted 3rd in Best Place to Live by Forbes magazine he laughed out loud and then somberly said, "That is really sad."

Its only a waste because the condo market tanked. If the project was fully sold then the parking would be needed. They added enough parking to accommodate both office users and general retail parking. Its the only structured parking in OTF, its free, and has plenty of spaces. Not a waste. Plus that project was not financed with taxpayer money.

It will eventually be fully sold, its the only high quality office space in that market, it just had terrible timing and hit the market when small businesses that look at condo purchases were avoiding making any large investments.

ra1n Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its only a waste because the condo market tanked.

Who ever thought people would buy a condo in OTF? Who could afford it and even if they could, no one with that much money would choose to live there. There is no waterfront, no scenery, no hustle and bustle of a big city, no decent restaurants...Just a traffic nightmare and expensive rent.


> If the project was fully sold then the parking
> would be needed. They added enough parking to
> accommodate both office users and general retail
> parking. Its the only structured parking in OTF,
> its free, and has plenty of spaces. Not a waste.
> Plus that project was not financed with taxpayer
> money.


Who payed for the parking garage then? Its a 558 car garage. That's more than the population of Old town fairfax. Say what you want, that garage was a colossal waste of space and money in good times or bad. I might have understood having it if the multiplex theatre that was supposed to be there was actually there. It's okay though, we got Austin Grill and Pot belly instead.....Oh wait, Austin Grill is gone already.



> It will eventually be fully sold, its the only
> high quality office space in that market,


High quality office space? What makes it high quality? Because it's in OTF? LOL!


> it just had terrible timing and hit the market when small
> businesses that look at condo purchases were
> avoiding making any large investments.

Face it, man, your "project" is a complete disaster. From the diverted traffic clusterfuck, to the bankrupt businesses,the empty 558 car garage,the legitimate businesses that got kicked out, to the lies the city told the taxpayers versus what we got, how could anyone say this was not a waste?

Actually Numbers it isn't THAT bad. With the expansion of the Judicial Center, when the economy turns around that place will definitely take off. There was actually a pretty strong indication that the condos would have sold very well (and that in turn would drive better quality storefront), but with the credit market drying up everything was put on hold. With the addition of more condo space within walking distance of downtown, it will still appeal to folks. At some point though the City will have to bite the bullet and correct the problem with 123 and north/south traffic through the City.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

RV, it is that bad.
They could have just made an outdoor mall or done something like Fairfax Corner or Reston Town Center and that would have lured people there. They could have at least made a spot for outdoor summer concerts or something, ANYTHING!
Instead, they built a bunch of office condos for the council members law firms, stockbrokers, doctors and all the other receivers of kickbacks. Turns out, they didn't even like it.

The place isn't even navigable by foot without raised foot bridges to cross North St. which is much busier with even more confused drivers. Also, no one likes taking their kids anywhere near there unless its the fall festival or something. It's too fuckin dangerous! Have you ever seen ANY kids hanging out around there?

I'm pissed because those of us that live nearby, had high hopes for it because we were promised something much nicer when we voted in favor of the tax increase. It doesn't matter if the economy improves or not because it was designed by a moron.

I dont have anything to do with this project but I do know commercial RE...and if you want to play the blame game, blame the economy.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
>
> Who payed for the parking garage then? Its a 558
> car garage. That's more than the population of Old
> town fairfax.

The developer paid for it and the number of parking spaces required is determined by city zoning, And they are not for residents of OTF they're for office users that commute.

It's okay though, we got
> Austin Grill and Pot belly instead.....Oh wait,
> Austin Grill is gone already.

Blame Austin Grill then, its not like the owner wants them to leave...

> High quality office space? What makes it high
> quality? Because it's in OTF? LOL!

No, because its not some B class 1980's office condo like the rest of OTF.

>
> Face it, man, your "project" is a complete
> disaster. From the diverted traffic clusterfuck,
> to the bankrupt businesses,the empty 558 car
> garage,the legitimate businesses that got kicked
> out, to the lies the city told the taxpayers
> versus what we got, how could anyone say this was
> not a waste?

Its not mine, I agree the traffic sucks, its also cramped and overpriced. But no ones getting kicked out, businesses are defaulting. Blame Obama!!

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> They could have just made an outdoor mall or done
> something like Fairfax Corner or Reston Town
> Center and that would have lured people there.
> They could have at least made a spot for outdoor
> summer concerts or something, ANYTHING!

Not enough room for all that. In order to build anything significant there the city must have a structured lot to handle the parking. Thats very expensive to build so the developer has to design enough square footage which, when sold, will pay for that additional construction cost and still make a profit. Thats why its so tight.


> Instead, they built a bunch of office condos for
> the council members law firms, stockbrokers,
> doctors and all the other receivers of kickbacks.
> Turns out, they didn't even like it.

Wow, thats some evil conspiracy huh? They'll take whoever they can get in there. That owner is getting hammered, at this point they are probably trying to stay above water until the market improves. They dont care who buys or leases space in there.

1. They already have a couple of spaces for outdoor concerts (City Hall amphitheater and Van Dyke Park), why put one in the middle of Old Town?

2. They needed a parking garage. As it is most people are hoping they won't close the parking lot next to Old Town Hall as it makes it so delivery trucks don't have to block the street there anymore, and there is parking adjacent to a venue where they hold many events.

3. Certainly they would have been better off building taller buildings to help generate more downtown density. If they had gone with the original concept of mixed retail/commercial/residential space all throughout the redeveloped spaces it would have been much more appealing and self-sustaining.

The entire issue boils down to the fact that City Council refuses to deal with the 123 traffic issue and correct the problem. They had a great opportunity when they put in the Farrcroft development across from Roberts Rd to deal with some of the issue - but they chose to put another bottleneck in the way of addressing traffic flow. They could have had a road from Roberts to Layton Hall, and it would have done quite a bit to help get traffic flow out of the OTF areas to allow for better pedestrian traffic movement. Instead they claimed they didn't want more "cut through" traffic - BEFORE the development was put in. If they actually had defined a road to carry traffic, then it wouldn't have been cut through - but they had all jumped on this phrase during that time and thought it sounded good to say they were fighting cut through traffic.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. They already have a couple of spaces for
> outdoor concerts (City Hall amphitheater and Van
> Dyke Park), why put one in the middle of Old
> Town?
>
> 2. They needed a parking garage. As it is most
> people are hoping they won't close the parking lot
> next to Old Town Hall as it makes it so delivery
> trucks don't have to block the street there
> anymore, and there is parking adjacent to a venue
> where they hold many events.
>
> 3. Certainly they would have been better off
> building taller buildings to help generate more
> downtown density. If they had gone with the
> original concept of mixed
> retail/commercial/residential space all throughout
> the redeveloped spaces it would have been much
> more appealing and self-sustaining.
>
> The entire issue boils down to the fact that City
> Council refuses to deal with the 123 traffic issue
> and correct the problem. They had a great
> opportunity when they put in the Farrcroft
> development across from Roberts Rd to deal with
> some of the issue - but they chose to put another
> bottleneck in the way of addressing traffic flow.
> They could have had a road from Roberts to Layton
> Hall, and it would have done quite a bit to help
> get traffic flow out of the OTF areas to allow for
> better pedestrian traffic movement. Instead they
> claimed they didn't want more "cut through"
> traffic - BEFORE the development was put in. If
> they actually had defined a road to carry traffic,
> then it wouldn't have been cut through - but they
> had all jumped on this phrase during that time and
> thought it sounded good to say they were fighting
> cut through traffic.


This sounds so much like Vienna.

1. They put a Town Green in the middle of town when they already had places for outdoor events.

2. We need more parking.

3. We need some mixed use to increase the population density so that restaurants and shops can flourish. Right now, we mostly have banks, gas stations and mattress stores.

New Vienna resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This sounds so much like Vienna.
>
> 1. They put a Town Green in the middle of town
> when they already had places for outdoor events.
>
>
> 2. We need more parking.
>
> 3. We need some mixed use to increase the
> population density so that restaurants and shops
> can flourish. Right now, we mostly have banks,
> gas stations and mattress stores.

In following the old Historic Vienna funnies, there was a whole series when they were trying to FOIA a letter from the owner of the Marco Polos Restaurant (I think that is the one) where they had wanted to combine properties with the business/building on the lot next to them and redevelop them into a mixed use structure of 5 stories with retail, commercial and residential space. The contention was that it would be good to move the Maple Ave redevelopment along. Unfortunately it didn't meet with the current plan which only allows for 3 or 4 story structures so they ignored him. The stink came later I guess because the Mayor made some comments to the effect that they had no viable alternatives, or options for development plans.

At some point maybe they will elect in some new blood that will allow them to move forward. Now that Maud retired that helped a bit, but you still have some of the folks running that process there that have a vision of some little hamlet in the heart of DC over there. With the new metro stations at Tysons they need to look at doing something to facilitate better traffic through the area.

Maybe some thoughts:

1. An elevated light rail service from Vienna Metro to Tysons that follows 123 (far fetched, but hey, something modern and different would be nice - and it would certainly help with traffic in the long run).

2. A bus service like the CUE Bus in Fairfax City that runs between the stations, allowing more local access with fewer cars.

3. Re-development of some of the Mill St area into higher density mixed use space to make better use of the trail, parks and businesses.

etc.

But yeah, like that will ever happen :)

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. They already have a couple of spaces for
> outdoor concerts (City Hall amphitheater and Van
> Dyke Park), why put one in the middle of Old
> Town?

I was thinking more like Fairfax Corners set up. It's nice. You can shop around while the band is playing. Stop and get ice cream and go watch the band for a bit. It's great!
City Hall is in nowhere land and so is Van Dyke (in terms of being where the masses are).



> 2. They needed a parking garage. As it is most
> people are hoping they won't close the parking lot
> next to Old Town Hall as it makes it so delivery
> trucks don't have to block the street there
> anymore, and there is parking adjacent to a venue
> where they hold many events.

Ok, than why not put a smaller one where the old library is, instead of wasting all that inner city area where there could have been a theatre or SOMETHING?



> 3. Certainly they would have been better off
> building taller buildings to help generate more
> downtown density. If they had gone with the
> original concept of mixed
> retail/commercial/residential space all throughout
> the redeveloped spaces it would have been much
> more appealing and self-sustaining.


You mean what the taxpayers agreed to in the first place?



> The entire issue boils down to the fact that City
> Council refuses to deal with the 123 traffic issue
> and correct the problem. They had a great
> opportunity when they put in the Farrcroft
> development across from Roberts Rd to deal with
> some of the issue - but they chose to put another
> bottleneck in the way of addressing traffic flow.
> They could have had a road from Roberts to Layton
> Hall, and it would have done quite a bit to help
> get traffic flow out of the OTF areas to allow for
> better pedestrian traffic movement. Instead they
> claimed they didn't want more "cut through"
> traffic - BEFORE the development was put in. If
> they actually had defined a road to carry traffic,
> then it wouldn't have been cut through - but they
> had all jumped on this phrase during that time and
> thought it sounded good to say they were fighting
> cut through traffic.


The issue boils down to bad planning on every part of the project.

ra1n Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Blame Austin Grill then, its not like the owner
> wants them to leave...

Half true. The other half goes to the planners of this project for not putting anything else in the area to attract customers. The garage is in the wrong place and is way too big. There could have been other businesses there instead.


> No, because its not some B class 1980's office
> condo like the rest of OTF.


So the new offices are A class?



> Its not mine, I agree the traffic sucks, its also
> cramped and overpriced. But no ones getting kicked
> out, businesses are defaulting. Blame Obama!!

Blame Obama? That place went to hell long before Obama took over. It was a design disaster and that's inarguable.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ra1n Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Blame Austin Grill then, its not like the owner
> > wants them to leave...
>
> Half true. The other half goes to the planners of
> this project for not putting anything else in the
> area to attract customers. The garage is in the
> wrong place and is way too big. There could have
> been other businesses there instead.
>

Nope. You cant just put other businesses there without allocating the parking to support it. And the parking is determined by the city zoning based on a ratio of office sqft to spaces.
Also, retail does better when the office is filled because there are more customers on site. The weak economy leaving much of the office space vacant is what causes the retail to default.

>
>
> So the new offices are A class?
>
>

As a matter of fact, yes they are.


>
> Blame Obama? That place went to hell long before
> Obama took over. It was a design disaster and
> that's inarguable.

I was just kidding about Obama, But he hasnt helped the economy any more then Bush did.

The design is not a disaster. You seem to think that there are no rules on what you can and cannot build, and have no concept whatsoever about how a developer finances or makes money on an investment like this. Just be happy there is something in the way of restaurants and retail in that area. Before there was nothing.

Aside from some of the cultural attractions sponsored by COF, there is nothing there that would lure me to the area. And I would never choose to buy a condo there b/c I wouldn't feel safe as a pedestrian walking around that area. Too much traffic congestion and no barriers between cars and sidewalks. Whoever said parents don't want their kids in that area was right. It's not family friendly. There's barely room on the sidewalk to hold hands with one's child side by side. Plus all of the driveways that intersect the sidewalks are an accident waiting to happen. Van Dyke Park is nice, but parking is an issue for any type of large scale event.

Does anyone here live in City of Fairfax? What are your thoughts?

I live in FFX city and find the Town Center here appalling. It's funny how the shops at Reston TC, Leesburg TC, Fairfax Corner and all the other surrounding Town Centers are doing just fine and are packed with Christmas shoppers. What do we have to bring in the hoards of shoppers, Pot Belly, Pacers and a shitload of empty, Class A office space!!

They will eventually have to use the lower 2 levels of the garage and maybe the top to build stores.They will have to tear down the old library for more space and make it like Leesburg Town center, which is what they should have done in the first place. The designers and planning committee for this current disaster should be taken to task over it. WTF were they thinking?

Of course to fix it, it will cost a small fortune and take a third tax increase referendum which I fully expect in the next few voting periods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2009 12:44AM by Numbers.

I recall that after the Old Library closed the city put out a re-use bid. The period closed May of this year. Still, nothing has been disclosed that I have heard. I may live a lil south of ya, but I am in OTF daily.

Small concession, but there is a McDonalds, Starbucks, TJMAxx, Walgreens, CVS, Safeway and other smaller businesses. The small cafe that recently opened by CVS is actually quite good. I don't recall the name offhand, but its by the Pizza Hut and I don't mean Shortys or whatever that place is.

Another thought on OTF since I was thinking of that Safeway center off Willard Way. Its is a center that is said to be getting renovated in 2011 or so and the Safeway is said to be moving across the lot to where the McD is.

The Safeway is being updated? It's about time. LOL