I read that the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments is paying $400,000 (of our money, of course) to “study” the idea of taxing us for every mile we drive. Can these people get any more ridiculous??

So, in the last few weeks, we’ve heard this group, and others, advocate for:

1) An increased gas tax

2) A per-mile tax,

3) More toll roads,

4) More HOT lanes.

There’s probably more. But the idea is the same – tax the living daylights out of the middle class. Don’t these politicians have any idea how harmful this will be to ordinary people? It’s amazing that so many of the politicians’ new transportation “solutions” only end up making things worse, and more inequitable.

I’m sure they’re saying that the per-mile tax will fund mass transit, but I’m sure the money will just disappear into dumb projects like way-too-expensive bike trails and brick sidewalks that really benefit almost no one..

There are so many obvious bottlenecks on Northern Virginia roads – why can’t these geniuses concentrate on fixing simple things first, instead of constantly calling for more taxes to fund mega-projects and silly things like trolleys that really make little fiscal sense to the great majority of us?

Then there’s the topic of why we need a $400,000 study for this. Everyone knows what the conclusion will be. Already, elected officials are jumping on board for the per-mile tax, led of course by elitist Arlington. I’d love to know where Fairfax officials stand on this.

What we really need is a million dollar study to find out why we spent $400k on this study....

This is what happens when people are apathetic on voting day. Those who want to redistribute wealth from the working to the non-working and lazy come to power and taxes go up. When you hear demokrats say "no new taxes on the middle class" I hope we have all learned our lesson to grab our wallets and run to the polls to oppose them. Just like DC residents, we get what we vote in.

Hello everybody. I am a HOMOSEXUAL! Are there ant others like myself out there?

---------------------------------
I am now in control of your internets.http://www.ipnow.org/

Merritt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What we really need is a million dollar study to
> find out why we spent $400k on this study....



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I still think the role of government is to eventually figure out how to put every citizen under virtual house arrest.

That would reduce crime, and it would generate all kinds of revenue for the government since every request to go to the store would require a 2 week advance request with the requisite $60 application fee, and each request to go to work would require an advanced application and $14 application fee (x 5 per week).

If the world were perfect, only elected officials and appointees would have freedom of movement. The rest of us would have to apply to leave our domiciles.

I know Dick Cheney would have a hard on for that one. So would Al Gore. The two might even have a gay moment together if they ever achieved such a control-freak nirvana.

But yes, I think our every move should be taxed. It's too early to tax our every breath, but give it some time, and eventually that will seem prudent as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The function of conservatives is not to meet every liberal program or scheme with a denunciation or a destructive counterscheme, but rather to weigh its advantages and defects, supporting the first and challenging the second. A declaration of ideological warfare against liberalism is by its nature profoundly unconservative. It meets perceived radicalism with a counterradicalism of its own.

Do IT

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is what happens when people are apathetic on
> voting day. Those who want to redistribute wealth
> from the working to the non-working and lazy come
> to power and taxes go up. When you hear demokrats
> say "no new taxes on the middle class" I hope we
> have all learned our lesson to grab our wallets
> and run to the polls to oppose them. Just like DC
> residents, we get what we vote in.

YUP, what he said.

I hate that tax! Listen folks...you've all stopped thinking and have turned on some sort of dogmatic chant of no tax is a good tax. Just imagine what the world would be like if there were no taxes. Infrastructure improvements would be non-existant unless funded by private companiies. Imagine every road being toll road...every park you went to funded by entrance fees..no public eductaion (everyone would be home schooled). Oh wait!...that is the republican agenda....

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2009 09:50AM by Vince(1).

Have it ever occured to you that taxes are not the only source of income for a government? Oh, that's right, others require some effort, thus not the Dems favorite.

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have it ever occured to you that taxes are not the
> only source of income for a government? Oh, that's
> right, others require some effort, thus not the
> Dems favorite.



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have it ever occured to you that taxes are not the
> only source of income for a government? Oh, that's
> right, others require some effort, thus not the
> Dems favorite.

Please go on about these other sources of income. I'm eagerly waiting to hear about them.

Ok idiot, DRUGS. nuff said

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Price Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Have it ever occured to you that taxes are not
> the
> > only source of income for a government? Oh,
> that's
> > right, others require some effort, thus not the
> > Dems favorite.
>
> Please go on about these other sources of income.
> I'm eagerly waiting to hear about them.

Really, this needs to be explained to you?

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Price Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Have it ever occured to you that taxes are not
> the
> > only source of income for a government? Oh,
> that's
> > right, others require some effort, thus not the
> > Dems favorite.
>
> Please go on about these other sources of income.
> I'm eagerly waiting to hear about them.

Fees.

Pay for stuff you use, like roads (paid for through vehicle registration fees), court services and legal documents, etc.

It would make driving a car or getting a deed to your house much more expensive, but you'd only pay if you use the service. And you'd get to keep all your income and pay no sales tax, so it wouldn't break you.

Would it work? Maybe, maybe not. Don't laugh, it's not my idea. But that's the theory. Make government earn money for its services, instead of making you pay at gunpoint and then doing a poor job.

No doubt Vince(1) is blowing steam out his ears just reading this. But you asked...and it's good to remind yourself that just because things have been the way they are for so long doesn't mean it's the only way.

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have it ever occured to you that taxes are not the
> only source of income for a government? Oh, that's
> right, others require some effort, thus not the
> Dems favorite.


Of course...a big topic of conversation on here is bonds..another big source of income...seems to go over as big as new taxes. Then of course there is the more efficient use of current revenues...doing more with less...and of course a readjusting of priorities could generate at least a reshuffling of priorities to ensure the more important projects get accomplished. BUUUTTTT....part of the equation is also taxes...even new taxes...republilcans have just taken it off the table...actually what they do is to hold every issue hostage using the threat of taxes as the "sky is falling" cry in order to further their right wing agenda.


Everything should be on the table...even taxes. Personally I do not favor the latest proposal to put GPS on cars and then charge them for miles driven....the invvasion of privacy issues are incredible. Seems to me a gasoline tax is just fine...drive a lot, pay a lot...drive a fuel consuming car, pay for it.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is what happens when people are apathetic on
> voting day. Those who want to redistribute wealth
> from the working to the non-working and lazy come
> to power and taxes go up. When you hear demokrats
> say "no new taxes on the middle class" I hope we
> have all learned our lesson to grab our wallets
> and run to the polls to oppose them. Just like DC
> residents, we get what we vote in.


Well I do agree with one thing..if you dont vote..you dont count...you have no right to complain or even comment (got the message Gravis?). So all you neo-nazis, vote republican...all you responsible human beings vote democratic...but in either case...vote.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Your right Vince, we can only vote Republican or Democrat. Those are the only options. Moron.

Bonds?? That's all you could think of, Vince - borrowing money? And how do you intend repaying those?

State owned businesses, incl. agencies, can generate $$. Land leases, air wave leases, lending... heck - even mercenary services, if we talk about all possibilities, can bring in revenue. But once again, all above requiers proper management and execution, i.e. puting in some effort. Unlike taxing the shit out of everything.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Everything should be on the table...even taxes.

Agreed.

> Personally I do not favor the latest proposal to
> put GPS on cars and then charge them for miles
> driven....the invvasion of privacy issues are
> incredible.

Agreed. If the intent of a GPS-based solution is to report locations for total mileage calculations, it absolutely mustn't be on the table at all.

> Seems to me a gasoline tax is just
> fine...drive a lot, pay a lot...drive a fuel
> consuming car, pay for it.

The problem with a gas tax as the solution is that by driving up the cost of gas, it helps shift more people to hybrids/electrics. While I agree that's the right direction for US balance of payments and strategic issues and for CO2 issues, it conflicts with using gas taxes as the source for money for transportation over the longer term.

So, I think a mix of gas tax and total mileage driven tax needs to be put in place, with some tolling for specific routes. For the mileage driven tax, some solution that integrates with the odometers and outputs periodically (e.g. once per week) rather than location is a much better solution from a privacy perspective.

Note, if the intent of the GPS solution is strictly reporting mileage off the odometer at some period, and it can be proven that location could never be captured using the technology they put in place, GPS as a transport for the data could potentially be a non-invasive solution.

formerhick76 Wrote:

>
> Please go on about these other sources of income.
> I'm eagerly waiting to hear about them.


A penny SAVED is a penny EARNED. So ummmmmm, how about eliminating waste? Oh and ummmmmmmm how about not spending money on people who a.) do not work, b.) do not work, and c.) do not work, thus not paying into the system. Taxes are high enough so more tax dollars to waste and give away to leeches is ummmmmmmmmmm not the correct solution.

But if you love taxes so much, pay my share too, Robin Hood. I drive 86 million miles a year.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well I do agree with one thing..if you dont
> vote..you dont count...you have no right to
> complain or even comment


Absolutely false, as usual, Vince.

All humans are born with unalienable rights. None of which are dependant in participation in your contrived government system, in which a mob votes to take money from the non-mob.

it conflicts with using gas taxes as the source for money for
> transportation over the longer term.
>
> So, I think a mix of gas tax and total mileage
> driven tax needs to be put in place, with some
> tolling for specific routes. For the mileage
> driven tax, some solution that integrates with the
> odometers and outputs periodically (e.g. once per
> week) rather than location is a much better
> solution from a privacy perspective.
>

I assume you mean that over time they'll be less and less cars using gasoline until finally there are no cars powered by gasoline. While that is a theoretical outcome...I think the long term in this case will be at least 50 years..in the meantime just continue increasing the fuel tax to cover revenue requirments. After 50 years of technology improvements who knows what the capabilities and people's attitudes will be on a GPS type mileage system Right now Obama will be nailed to the cross as increasing the fed's power once again if he goes theat route.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2009 10:55PM by Vince(1).

taxing for miles driven is bullshit but i support the hell out of a fat tax. get to the gym bitches!

Problem with switching to a fee-only structure is that it makes required services for the poor that much more expensive. It's sort of like a sales tax on steroids.

SootMonkey, we had Republicans in control of both houses in Richmond during the mid and late 1990s, and both houses in DC during the mid 2000s.

How much waste was eliminated then?

I don't see too many Republicans following through and actually voting Libertarian ...

Small government is like Marxism. It's a nice idea, but it doesn't actually work out so well in practice.

tomahawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well I do agree with one thing..if you dont
> > vote..you dont count...you have no right to
> > complain or even comment
>
>
> Absolutely false, as usual, Vince.
>
> All humans are born with unalienable rights. None
> of which are dependant in participation in your
> contrived government system, in which a mob votes
> to take money from the non-mob.

You're right. But I don't take the political complaints of those who don't vote seriously at all.

Why is Vince such a fucking idiot? Seriously, go stab yourself inthe fucking face with a pitch fork.

Thread after thread after thread Vince, you always manage to say the most fuck-tarded shit I have ever heard. Do yourself a favor and go play in traffic for a few days.

WestfieldDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So, I think a mix of gas tax and total mileage
> driven tax needs to be put in place, with some
> tolling for specific routes. For the mileage
> driven tax, some solution that integrates with the
> odometers and outputs periodically (e.g. once per
> week) rather than location is a much better
> solution from a privacy perspective.
>
> Note, if the intent of the GPS solution is
> strictly reporting mileage off the odometer at
> some period, and it can be proven that location
> could never be captured using the technology they
> put in place, GPS as a transport for the data
> could potentially be a non-invasive solution.

So, is your vision of the GPS solution (based on mileage only) going to be a federal tax? If it's a state tax, then your idea won't fly. I can only imagine the flak you would get if you try to tax a VA-registered car based on mileage alone, and the owner of said car uses it to commute to his job in MD. Are you going to charge a VA tax for miles driven in MD?

Like I said: car registration fee is the way to pay for roads.

Sure, fees make it hard for the poor, but it should be hard for you if you have no money. Being poor SHOULD suck. That's the motivation for becoming not-so-poor.

In welfare states, they try to make being poor not suck so much. So instead of working harder, poor people stay on the couch and make poor babies, and just collect free checks from government, who take the money from hard-working people who are too proud to get in on the racket and be poor, but not smart od connected enough to get rich and politically connected and into a tax shelter.

It's called socialism and it works great for lazy ignorant morons like Vince, until it all collapses.

tomahawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said: car registration fee is the way to
> pay for roads.
>
> Sure, fees make it hard for the poor, but it
> should be hard for you if you have no money. Being
> poor SHOULD suck. That's the motivation for
> becoming not-so-poor.
>
> In welfare states, they try to make being poor not
> suck so much. So instead of working harder, poor
> people stay on the couch and make poor babies, and
> just collect free checks from government, who take
> the money from hard-working people who are too
> proud to get in on the racket and be poor, but not
> smart od connected enough to get rich and
> politically connected and into a tax shelter.
>
> It's called socialism and it works great for lazy
> ignorant morons like Vince, until it all
> collapses.

Using this logic, poverty should've been eliminated over the course of the 19th century, since being poor then sucked way more than it does today.

Republican's just don't get it. It's called balancing a budget. You shouldn't spend money you don't have.

To put it bluntly. If you don't increase taxes you either have to cut services or increase taxes to pay for improvements.

VA is in debt and going farther in debt. We need to start paying off that debt by raising taxes or we will be fucked in the years ahead paying interest.

It's a shame Virginia can't just print more money like the feds do. That way you can keep increasing the size of government and blowing sunshine up everyone's ass until it all comes crashing down someday, hopefully after you're gone.

At the state level you have to pay the piper sooner, and Virginia's not as bad off as some moronic states, like say, California.

It pays to have a split-party state.

Oh my, TAXES TAXES TAXES ! Jeepers why don't BIG GOV just sell drugs. There's alot of money in the drug market and we can get rid of our current tax platform we currently use, COMPLETELY! Of course we can let go, all of those fathers and mothers locked up behind bars missing out on thier childrens lives because they screwed up lusting over money, or were hopelessly addicted and couldn't support themselves but to sell to other addicts. Hmmmmm seems like a better plan would be to reduce JaIL TIME for current offenders and all future ones at least except in cases where violence or deadly force were issues and what not. Also can anyone help me find some nice gloryholes??? I need a good lower bowel cleansing and have trolled up and down the rt 1 corrider and am looking to find some new holes in and around that area. Please feel free to leave me any suggestions you may have. Ta Ta!

tomahawk Wrote:
> It pays to have a split-party state.

This is why you're voting to re-elect your (probably Democratic) delegate, right?