It looks like the marriage amendment will pass. I simply don't understand why. While I do understand that most Virginia voters don't hold my view on same-sex marriage (I think it should be legalized), I would think that they would be opposed to the amendment because of the possible implications for unmarried, heterosexual couples. Personally, I don't want to be forced to marry just to ensure that a living will would be honored. Is anyone else upset about this?

Northern Virginians oppose the amendment by 55 to 42 percent, according to a Washington Post poll, but voters in the rest of the state say they'll vote Yes by 58 to 38 percent.

Source

I'm not too upset about it because it's a micro issue compared to others, but I'm definitely voting NO to the amendment. Civil unions, no matter your sexual orientation, should be allowed the same benefits as married folks. It's just more of the same family values crap that we've been hearing for the past 6 years. -§

Here how is actually reads on the ballot:

"That only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.

This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage."?

Yes or No

I hope I'm allowed to have an opinion on this. If anyone wants to get married other than a man and a woman, just don't call it "marriage". I hate to see where it's going to lead, maybe to brother and sister marriages? I could always marry my best friend just to get the financial benefits. We don't have to love each other or even see each other. You don't have a health care? Fine.. find somebody, anybody, man or woman, marry, and share benefits. I wouldn't mind having 2 spouses, one I love, and one for benefits. What's wrong with that? Instead of this, have this:

>"That only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.

"That only a union between any men and women may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions."

I agree with you on the amendment, but I think the implications you talk about for unmarried hetero couples are ones they've lived and dealt with for a very long time anyway.

And frankly (this is directed at unmarried hetero couples), I don't understand what the problem is with marrying someone if you're going to have them in charge of your living will to begin with....it's kind of like saying "Honey, I don't want to marry you, but I still want you to be my health care proxy if I'm ever in a coma!" How romantic!

I heard in a story a while ago that the North Carolina supreme court gave a county employee woman her job back after being fired because she lived with someone (a male) she wasn't married to in a relationship. Her boss was able to fire her, take away benefits, etc because this broke an old law, they also mentioned Florida and Virginia had similar laws I think. Alas it was only overturned in NC obviously. So this kind of law may already exist here. I do think the gov should stay out of our private business though and let us decide what we can and cannot do without them making it illegal...

BR makes some good points, and lasuena raises a common view on the (possible) effects of gay marriages. I'm personally all for my sister marrying her dog, so I say make it ALL legal.

Lasuena - Of course everyone is allowed their own opinion... I just don't agree with the gateway marriage theory (okay, that is my own nomenclature). A 50 year old man could legally have sex with an 18 year old woman. Does that mean that every 50 year old man is thinking, "I'd like to push that just a little further... I'd like to have sex with a 15 year old girl"?

BR - I understand where you are coming from, but sometimes it isn't as easy as "we love each other, so let's get married." Yet I find that I really can't explain why it isn't that straight forward. I guess there are too many factors involved and I don't want to bore you with my life history. ;-) Suffice it to say that my boyfriend and I do plan on getting married within a year or two.

Amending the Virginia constitution is a bad way to address this, especially when there are existing laws in the commonwealth that prohibit gay marriage. The real test will come with the first court challenge since the Virginia supreme court does not have a history of judicial activism.

While I can appreciate the intent (I don't agree with it, however), I believe that we are going to see happen what has been predicted by those in opposition...rights to enter into contracts will go away and business will opt to locate in Maryland since domestic partner benefits will not be allowed. It should be interesting to see how large local employers like Sprint Nextel, Booz Allen Hamilton and BearingPoint react to this.

I am certain it doesnt have to be a spouse to have the "plug pulled" on you if you are in a coma.

I know of one woman who is having her sister be in charge of her living will. She has a husband but he is a devout catholic and he will not let her die with dignity as she wants should she be in a coma with no hopes of recovery.

so if I dont want faggots to marry do I vote yes or no

You don't vote at all in that case, dsladslkfslk. Faggot marriage has been illegal for some time now.

BR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's kind of like saying "Honey, I don't
> want to marry you, but I still want you to be my
> health care proxy if I'm ever in a coma!"

that would make great pickup like.   ^^


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

>Suffice it to say that my boyfriend and I do plan on getting married within a year or two.

That's great and I'm happy for you!! I wish you happiness and the best of life!

Going back to the new "marriage" (between anybody) also implies certain financial acquisitions under the law. Like if I am between jobs and don't have a medical plan or can't afford one, it would be a good thing for me to just marry my best same sex friend because that person is employed and has a great plan! Oh, that's a _real_ good reason to get married.

Or hey, I could just marry my cat, and live with my 'spouse' so that if something happens to me in Virginia and I don't have a will, my stuff won't go to him and the kids he had with someone else.

My problem with the whole thing is where it is going. Before a state says, sure let anybody marry anybody as of today... it needs to re-evaluate the legal ramifications and how it will impact things like current benefit systems. (Let's vote out laws while we're at it.) I doubt if companies and employers will continue providing such benefits if they will also end up paying for all of the insured's buddy spouse(s).

Let's just redefine everything to make it suitable for everybody and anybody. It doesn't even have to be a monogamous union anymore. Sign up for the marriage plan THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU!

Lasuena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Going back to the new "marriage" (between anybody)
> also implies certain financial acquisitions under
> the law. Like if I am between jobs and don't have
> a medical plan or can't afford one, it would be a
> good thing for me to just marry my best same sex
> friend because that person is employed and has a
> great plan! Oh, that's a _real_ good reason to
> get married.

This is a BS argument. People of different sexes don't get married to do this now on any large scale, why would it be different later? I think it would be LESS likely for straight people to do this. If a straight guy says to another "dude, I need health insurance can we get married so I can latch onto yours?" what do you think most straight guys would say?

Genevieve,

Weddings are such fun! I am glad you are going to get married. I don't know about this gay stuff but a good marriage should be like marrying your best friend. Wishing you all the very best!

Hugs, Trickie

TRICKIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a good marriage should be like marrying your
> best friend.

this may explain why RESton Peace's sister wants to marry her dog.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Marriage is religiuos term that means a man and a women will no longer date or have sex with anybody else. How depressing!

The Constitution bill of rights are there to insure freedoms not take them away. We also as americans have the right to "pursue happiness" we arent garuanteed happines but the pursuit of it. Thus making a law that limits what two reasonable adults can and cant do takes away inaliable rights. I work at a firm that allows for civil partners, married peoples etc etc to extend benifits. so its a moot point for me. But passing a law in Va or anywhere else in the US strikes me as unconstitutional.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thus making a law that limits what two reasonable
> adults can and cant do takes away inaliable
> rights.

Older couples have a right to collect social security together whereas younger couples cannot. If I am married to a woman and as consenting adults we agree to accept social security payments it strikes me as unconstitutional that this age discrimination exists.

Its the law that you Collect SS after you are a certain age you ass. The Fucking SS laws and marriage are completely differant motherfucking things you Vagina ripping shithead. Go fuck yourself wth a rusty spinnaker.

For over a thousand years, "marriage" has traditionally meant the union of people of the same race. There is absolutely no good reason to allow mixed race marriages. If anything, we should give mixed race couples a similar civil union, but just not call it "marriage."

Offended by that statement? Good, just substitute "heterosexuals" for "people of the same race," and "gay" for "mixed race" and you'll see how retarded the arguments against gay marriages are.

And if you weren't offended, then you're a retard, and under no circumstances are you smart enough to vote. In fact, you ought to kill yourself. If you're so stupid that you honestly think gay people marrying is somehow going to destroy your marriage or bring about the end of society, you're obviously not smart enough to live. Please do the world a favor and kill yourself. KTHXBYE

This is probably a dumb question but what if 2 people of the same sex do decide to legally get married. When they order their wedding cake, won't it look kind of odd to have a girl bride and a boy groom on the top? Or would they just use something else on top of the cake like maybe a set of golf clubs or their pets or something. I ask this because I have never known any couple of the same sex to ever get married or have one of those commitment ceremonies. Sometimes you see two girl brides on the wedding page in the Post and you don't see the cake or anything. Just curious.

Trickie

TRICKIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is probably a dumb question but what if 2
> people of the same sex do decide to legally get
> married. When they order their wedding cake,
> won't it look kind of odd to have a girl bride and
> a boy groom on the top? Or would they just use
> something else on top of the cake like maybe a set
> of golf clubs or their pets or something. I ask
> this because I have never known any couple of the
> same sex to ever get married or have one of those
> commitment ceremonies. Sometimes you see two girl
> brides on the wedding page in the Post and you
> don't see the cake or anything. Just curious.
>
> Trickie

what's more perplexing is where would you find a cake set of two guys both dressed as brides.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Just take a brown marker and colour some beards on two bride figures

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> BR - I understand where you are coming from, but
> sometimes it isn't as easy as "we love each other,
> so let's get married." Yet I find that I really
> can't explain why it isn't that straight forward.
> I guess there are too many factors involved and I
> don't want to bore you with my life history. ;-)
> Suffice it to say that my boyfriend and I do plan
> on getting married within a year or two.

Oh, it's definitely not that easy or straightforward. People who are likely to murder each other at some point often find themselves married to one another for some strange reason.

But I think that speaks to my point. Marriage, when done right, is something to be encouraged and good for society. That's why there are so many perks attached to it. And even without those perks most folks seem to find it a worthwhile enterprise, even if they fail at it the first couple of times.

With the divorce rate around 70% I bet the lawyers are drooling at the prospect of doubling their clients.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its the law that you Collect SS after you are a
> certain age you ass. The Fucking SS laws and
> marriage are completely differant motherfucking
> things you Vagina ripping shithead. Go fuck
> yourself wth a rusty spinnaker.


Fuck myself with a sail? That has no metal parts that can rust? Get an education. Marriage stuff is the law too dumbass, that's what we're talking about. Sometimes all the laws aren't fair and finding areas that aren't isn't difficult. And yeah I am a vagina ripper. How does it feel to be an ass ripper?

smooth comeback pgens. I dont care what gay people do as long as they stay away from me.

But passing a law in Va or anywhere else in the US strikes me as unconstitutional.

I gotta agree with Ferfux on this. God forbid that US citizens would be allowed to pursue what makes them happy. I don't know any gay people and could care less about the "traditional marriage" arguement. People should be allowed to do whatever they want to do as long as it doesn't harm other people or their property. Adding language to our constitution that would ban or forbid things, that just sounds like an anti-American idea.

> Marriage is religiuos term that means a man and a women will no longer date or have sex with anybody else. How depressing!

So then don’t get married! No one says you have to.

> And if you weren't offended, then you're a retard, and under no circumstances are you smart enough to vote. In fact, you ought to kill yourself.

What?! We are all entitled to an opinion and it doesn’t make us retarded or not smart enough if we don’t happen to agree with you. So anyone who doesn’t see things YOUR way should just die? You can’t even spell, so you shouldn’t be judging someone else’s intelligence.

Thanks Lasuena and Tricky! Now I just need to figure out how to have a very small wedding without offending anyone (for not inviting them) or making it seem like I'm asking for presents (by having a BBQ or cocktail party to celebrate). I think that the wedding scares me much more than marriage.

Genevieve,
   you dont have to have a wedding to get married. just get it done legally and then have a some informal party with your friends. you dont have a to have gigantic party so it wont be a big deal for the out of town people who cant make it. though just do what makes you happy, dont do something because it's what people expect of you. it's silly to think that everyone must do some ritualistic ceremony just to get married.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2006 11:04AM by Gravis.

Yes, Genevieve, take marriage advice from Gravis.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Genevieve, take marriage advice from Gravis.

lol. fine, what would you suggest?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Actually, I think that RESton Peace would suggest I follow your advice Gravis. Thanks!

Hi genevieve,
If I had to do it all over again, I would have a small intimate wedding. It would be religious and in a church ( I am Catholic and so is hubby) but it would just be for my family and very close friends. Or even a destination wedding at a cool tropical island only in a church there by a priest. Weddings are such a big waste of money and it seems they are just for show. Kinda like kids' birthday parties, it gets to be a battle of one up manship - or who can spend the most money. After the wedding you could send out a wedding notice with photo, name change, address change etc. I doubt if people would construe that as a bid for gifts. Some people may want to send something but that's only because they are happy for you. I would even send you a gift too!!! Like maybe an ornament for your Christmas tree or a bottle of nice wine.
I am sure that whatever you choose will me meaningful to you and the very lucky guy who gets to share your life. Anyway just my two cents for what it is worth. Good luck!!!!

Trickie ( I spell my name with an ie at the end cause that was my cat's name. He is in cat heaven)

I agree with you Trickie - an intimate wedding is better. Plus, I just can't imagine spending $25,000+ for one day. Although, I still want the big white dress!

Sorry I spelled your name wrong! I guess I wasn't paying attention when I was typing. Using your cat's name is cute. I would use my childhood cat's name, but I'm afraid that when assigned to a person it may sound inappropriate or just plain weird.

I really don't know why this is such a big deal. If you go by the marriage license counter in the FFX courthouse it has a sign that says a marriage license cannot be given out to two people of the same sex and lists the criminal and civil penalties for doing such.

Because a law can be overturned by a court. A court can't overturn a constitutional amendment.

The Supreme Court can overturn a state amendment.

This whole issue is pretty absurd, and has more to do with religious nuts injecting their morality into government than much else. The proposed amendment is badly written to say the least, and it's not something that's needed either. There never has been, and probably never will be, any legally sanctified gay weddings in Virginia.

The biggest solution to gay weddings is, don't go to one if you don't like it!

It's not like anyone can stop gay people from getting married in religious ceremonies in any case. They can only legislate civil morality like this stupid law.

I wouldn't mind so much but the law is so badly written it takes rights away from unmarried people.

the whole thing is a ploy to mobilize conservative voters for mid-term elections.

actual wrote;

"This whole issue is pretty absurd, and has more to do with religious nuts injecting their morality into government than much else. The proposed amendment is badly written to say the least, and it's not something that's needed either. There never has been, and probably never will be, any legally sanctified gay weddings in Virginia"

Tell me about it. I am still being a whinny bitch cause they took away my internet poker in the name of family values.

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> actual wrote;
>
> "This whole issue is pretty absurd, and has more
> to do with religious nuts injecting their morality
> into government than much else. The proposed
> amendment is badly written to say the least, and
> it's not something that's needed either. There
> never has been, and probably never will be, any
> legally sanctified gay weddings in Virginia"
>
> Tell me about it. I am still being a whinny bitch
> cause they took away my internet poker in the name
> of family values.

You can still sell your house betting on horse racing online. The hypocrisy of it all is amazing. It's all about protecting Indian gaming and Vegas casinos and Race Tracks (which all lobby Washington -> get bills passed) but the online casinos were all in Aruba or Gibraltar.

Gibraltar is full of smoking hot 17 year old girls on scooters, and gambling, and apes. That place has it all.

mad max, JD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Supreme Court can overturn a state amendment.

If that happens it will happen, but this prevents judge-shopping within Virginia to overturn existing law. In 2004 the Supreme Court wouldn't hear a conservative challenge to Massachusettes cases that made it legal, so I don't know if they would hear a case arguing the other side or not. Either way, the level of effort required to target this amendment and getting it into the hands of the US Supreme Court is pretty high.

I think the goal was to avoid the Massachusetts sequence of events, where a court made it okay and THEN the opponents of it in the state has to get an amendment passed to get rid of it.

mad max, JD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>>Gibraltar is full of smoking hot 17 year old girls on scooters, and gambling, and apes. That place has it all.

The apes all have chlamydia.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2006 06:47PM by Rowsdower.

The idea that gay marriage should be outlawed because then people will marry a 'friend' of the same sex just for the benefits is idiotic and naive. There have been plenty of heterosexual couples who married each other solely for the benefits.

They should do it like they do it in Europe: everyone has to have a civil ceremony, and that's open to both gay and straight. If you want a religious ceremony, you go to your church for a separate ceremony.

As a bone to the clergy, I'd say let them keep their power to perform the civil ceremony, but if you just want one ceremony in your church, you need two sets of paperwork: one for the state, and one for your church.

Im sorry but i dont support gay marriage. Marraige is a TRADITIONAL act which a Man AND a WOMAN shall be JOINED. There is no man and man/woman and woman in there. I am not against homosexuality but i do think they are abusing the civil rights amendment.... especially these people who believe a man should be married more than once but thats besides the point. I do know a benefit of being married is tax... they should pass a law to modify that but they dont need to screw with the marriage concept. Thank you Virginia for making the outcome what it was :).. especially FFx county citizens, we are a big part of VA. Good Job all!

Agreed.

Aside from taxes, another area that needs to be corrected is in legal proceedings. A spouse cannot be compelled to testify against a spouse, but because gay marriage isn't legal a homosexual mate could be jailed for rejecting a subpoena.

uhhcyaa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marraige is a TRADITIONAL act which a Man AND a WOMAN shall
> be JOINED.


I don't think that marriage has been a traditional act for a long time. While divorce rates may be contended, the idea of "'til death do us part" is a joke.

Plus, wasn't marriage originally created as an economic structure for raising children? So where does that leave couples that don't want to have children? Or women in the work force?

Marriage has already evolved and will continue to evolve. I look forward to the day when homosexuals will not be denied the benefits of marriage.

I'm not for two guys getting marrried. That's just creepy. Now if two hot looking lesbians want to get married I'm all for that, but there should be some type of clause that requires a guy to join in every now and then.

FYI - For years I have supported lesbians by watching their movies on the internet.

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not for two guys getting marrried. That's
> just creepy. Now if two hot looking lesbians want
> to get married I'm all for that, but there should
> be some type of clause that requires a guy to join
> in every now and then.
>
> FYI - For years I have supported lesbians by
> watching their movies on the internet.


LOL, those films don't quite count as movies.

Wow, Lurker, I totally want to subscribe to your newsletter. You've stolen the thoughts right out of my head.

wow... Lurker, the concept of only allowing two chicks to get married is..

its fine if marriage is between a man and a women. i dont really support that notion. but same sex couples should have some type of legal protections. but its like it was a political issue, more or less..

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its the law that you Collect SS after you are a
> certain age you ass. The Fucking SS laws and
> marriage are completely differant motherfucking
> things you Vagina ripping shithead. Go fuck
> yourself wth a rusty spinnaker.


Hahahaha. Faggot!

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Constitution bill of rights are there to
> insure freedoms not take them away. We also as
> americans have the right to "pursue happiness" we
> arent garuanteed happines but the pursuit of it.
> Thus making a law that limits what two reasonable
> adults can and cant do takes away inaliable
> rights. I work at a firm that allows for civil
> partners, married peoples etc etc to extend
> benifits. so its a moot point for me. But passing
> a law in Va or anywhere else in the US strikes me
> as unconstitutional.


this post triggered my memory into remembering this thread. where RESton Peace made an excellent point in this post:

Quote
RESton Peace
Marriage is not codified in any international agreements or any US document as a "right".... we'll have to agree to disagree, although I can see where you're coming from, and it's not like you're the only one with that opinion... I just see it as, you're saying people have a right to seek happiness that way, ok, what's to stop us from sanctioning all kinds of things that make people "happy", like crack and unlimited automatic weapons. Now I get to go to far to make my point.

other great insights from the thread include

Quote
RESton Peace
there's always SOMEONE to make Gravis and I look better...

ahh, memories.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I am an insightful motherfucker when I'm high.

Wow reading that thread again has made me realize two things:

1. It was classic Fairfax Underground
2. I spent a lot of time in the last year talking about something I said I didn't care about.

.