Notice of Action under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

Abuse Incident Number: NA0000002006333
Report Date/Time: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:53:47 -0700


********
**************
RESTON, VA 20191


Dear Comcast High-Speed Internet Subscriber:

Comcast has received a notification by a copyright owner, or its authorized
agent, reporting an alleged infringement of one or more copyrighted works made
on or over Comcast's High-Speed Internet service (the 'Service'). The copyright
owner has identified the Internet Protocol ('IP') address associated with your
Service account at the time as the source of the infringing works. The works
identified by the copyright owner in its notification are listed below. Comcast
reminds you that use of the Service (or any part of the Service) in any manner
that constitutes an infringement of any copyrighted work is a violation of
Comcast's Acceptable Use Policy and may result in the suspension or termination
of your Service account.

If you have any questions regarding this notice, you may direct them to Comcast in writing by
sending a letter or e-mail to:

Comcast Legal Response Center
Comcast Cable Communications, LLC
650 Centerton Road
Moorestown, NJ 08057 U.S.A.
Phone: (856) 317-7272
Fax: (856) 317-7319
E-mail: dmca@comcast.net

For more information regarding Comcast's copyright infringement policy,
procedures, and contact information, please read our Acceptable Use Policy by
clicking on the Terms of Service link at http://www.comcast.net.

Sincerely,
Comcast Legal Response Center

Copyright work(s) identified in the notification of claimed infringement:

Notice ID: 1854925

Asset: The Da Vinci Code
Protocol: BitTorrent
IP Address: **.***.**.**
DNS: *-**-***-**-**.nunya.at.comcast.net
File Name: The.Da.Vinci.Code.PROPER.TS.XviD-ZN/zn-dvnca.rar
File Size: 736442722
Timestamp: 4 Oct 2006 07:33:48 GMT
Last Seen Date: 4 Oct 2006 07:33:48 GMT
URL:
Username (if available): *****
Notice ID: 1854925

Asset: The Da Vinci Code
Protocol: BitTorrent
IP Address: **.***.**.**
DNS: *-**-***-**-**.nunya.at.comcast.net
File Name: The.Da.Vinci.Code.PROPER.TS.XviD-ZN/zn-dvncb.rar
File Size: 736342370
Timestamp: 4 Oct 2006 07:33:48 GMT
Last Seen Date: 4 Oct 2006 07:33:48 GMT
URL:
Username (if available): ****

This is what i got.
with sensitive information taken out.

should i be worried?

If they didn't use the name associated with the account, I wouldn't think it's officially from comcast. I dont know though.

Edit #1: Nevermind, that's the ****** at the top.

Edit #2: http://forums.phoenixlabs.org/archive/index.php?t-12123.html

It's just a warning, apparently.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2006 09:59PM by mad max, JD.

maybe you shouldnt have left it running and uploading at 150KB+ for three days, you tard.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

ZenZero, do you have encryption turned on in your torrent client?

This was a letter with your IP, name and address on it?

You should send it to snopes.com and ask if it's legit.
There is a similar warning that went around to some about the FBI logging peoples' IP addresses. In fact, I began to listen to a song that had been downloaded and immediately was notified that it had been "stolen" and my IP address had been logged.. blah blah... That was a year ago.

one thing we can say for sure, the letter didn't come from the RIAA. They could give a shit about movies.

If you really downloaded the movie then I doubt it is a fake notice. But yeah I think I would delete it, don't download any more movies, and wait. I tend to think this was a warning as well.

Another option suggested on a search is to simply reply back, say the file has been deleted and have a nice day.

And encryption isn't going to save you, ref http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23295

one thing we can say for sure, the letter didn't come from the RIAA. They could give a shit about movies.

That is correct. And if the MPAA's tactics are anything like the RIAA, you'd get a similar letter from your ISP along with a copy of the court order and subpoena, which probably would have been filed in the jurisdiction where Comcast's headquarters is located (not here in FFX).

I'm not trying to be a dick and scare you, but I'd be a little worried at this point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2006 09:22AM by TheMeeper.

Looks like a form letter that they just enter the relevant information into. If that's the case, it's probably just a warning...something that goes on your Comcast "permanent record".

I would say that if they cancel your service and/or contact you in some other manner, maybe then you start getting worried. That said, I would definitely delete the movie. And if you really want to cover your ass, send a letter (with a copy of what you received attached) to the Comcast legal dept. stating that you deleted the movie in question and now you understand the rules and won't do it again.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And if the MPAA's tactics are
> anything like the RIAA,

they dont do things like the RIAA. they go after the people actually producing fake DVDs and selling them. im quite sure they saw what the RIAA did and put it on the "things to not do" list.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis is wrong. The MPAA has been very aggressive in their effort to stop online "piracy", even going so far as getting the Sewedish govt to conduct a police raid on some web company, arresting several people in the process, because the company was sharing copyrighted material over the internet.

They don't just go after those DVD bootleggers.

I am really skeptical about any email from Comcast, et al. Did you check out the header info? I would think if it were that serious it would arrive by snail mail. What good would it do to delete the movie after you download it though? It’s not like they are the PC police watching your every move on your HD. Also I would think that an ISP could not sit there and monitor what you download or where you surf. That seems a real invasion of privacy. These places seem especially interested if you download thousands of movies, software, or songs, and then go sell them. I really doubt they’d go after someone for a couple downloads. I take it you haven’t received an email like this before? Something just doesn’t sound right. If that happened to me, I would test it out by dl’ing another one from another site. Is there anything on the Comcast site that says they are doing this?

The issue has little to do with Comcast, other than they have apparently agreed to identify users as opposed to other ISPs like Verizon that refuse to do so.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding on terminology Lasuena... do you know what P2P systems are? There's no single site where the movie was downloaded from. Pieces were downloaded from lots of other people's PCs and pieced together. At the same time the pieces the OP had were getting farmed out to others. If the OP was running the P2P software and had it set to still farm out the movie, deleting it would be one way to stop the farming. But if it is being farmed, the OP's PC can be discovered as a source so in that sense it can be monitored.

There is no safe way to do P2P that I am aware of. To mitigate the risk you can stop the process once your download is complete and maybe you won't be visible at the time they are looking.

As for monitoring where you surf and invasion of privacy arguments, no one seems to have a problem with phone companies, which have records of everyone you called and everyone who called you. And no one complains when they bust a pedophile by "invading their privacy."

You can use proxy servers, pgens, and it is quite common now. Didn't Cary just post a message saying he might ban anonymizer proxies?

Of course, the proxy server service provider is the weakest link here, but generally, that additional hurdle is enough to stop people from finding out who you are based on IP.

Yes, you are never totally protected unless you can for some reason be totally sure the person running the proxy server will not give your info out... let's face it it's all about which level you are willing to trust the most.

The best way to win is never to play, of course.

What makes me think it might be legit from Comcast is that the letter connects an IP with a physical address (ei-XXXX Street, Reston, Va) The only way to connect the address that I know of is to go through the ISP some how. Now if she has typed her address into bit torrent some how then that would explain it.

As far as getting the IP, what they do is just simply use the sharing software and share the movie or song etc... Then they just track the IP addresses of people that connect to download.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis is wrong. The MPAA has been very
> aggressive in their effort to stop online
> "piracy", even going so far as getting the
> Sewedish govt to conduct a police raid on some web
> company, arresting several people in the process,
> because the company was sharing copyrighted
> material over the internet.
>
> They don't just go after those DVD bootleggers.

i recall they went after "the pirate bay" in sweden. that was a huge ass site they were attempting to take down, not just joe shmoe downloading a copy of the land before time 3. if you can point out a few cases where they went after joe shmoe (poor joe), i will believe you.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

they failed, btw, pirate bay is still going strong

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you can point out a few cases where they went
> after joe shmoe (poor joe), i will believe you.

http://news.com.com/Judge+slows+MPAA+file-trading+suits/2100-1025_3-5466215.html?tag=nefd.top

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7764.cfm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2006 10:28AM by pgens.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they failed, btw, pirate bay is still going strong

yes, i do know that. there a several sites around the globe that are used as backups. it became even more popular after the story broke.


pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://news.com.com/Judge+slows+MPAA+file-trading+suits/2100-1025_3-5466215.html?tag=nefd.top
>
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7764.cfm

touche. though i would like to point out that one was from two years ago. i guess the MPAA doesnt go after dead people and 12 year olds. :)
perhaps it's simply under reported. until i get some real numbers, i wont draw any real conclusions.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

...sends out a lot of these based on a Google search.

I wouldn't worry about it.

>If the OP was running the P2P software and had it set to still farm out the movie, deleting it would be one way to stop the farming. But if it is being farmed, the OP's PC can be discovered as a source so in that sense it can be monitored.

Yes, I absolutely do know what P2P systems are, that's why I asked. You still need a connection and a front end to connect to one, and maybe an ISP. Does Comcast send a warning everytime a user connects to a P2P or do they let you connect and then watch everything you do and every single thing you download? There is just too much phony email going around. How many other people get these warnings? I don't worry about most of it.

My understanding is that someone (probably a company contracted by the copyright holder) monitors these P2P networks looking for IPs that are violating their copyright.

Then they complain to the ISP that the IP belongs to.

Due to privacy laws, the ISP will not give out any information relating to who the IP belongs to unless they get a subphoena.

Comcast is simply passing the complaint along.

They probably could't care less about it.

howdy all.
sorry about the late replies.
funny thing.
i try to encrypt my bittorrent client like someone suggested.
and killed my interent somehow

[good times had by all]

yes. so from what i'm understanding it is a warning letter.
but as a good measure
i deleted the file (i got another letter regarding another movie)
and then went over the sectors with random data
[thanks to Sdelete.exe]

and just waiting for what ever comes.

for now i'm just laying low with the downloading juuust in case.

Usually the people that they go after are people that have downloaded 100's of songs.

While looking at provisions on the internet gaming act I found parts where the government was strong arming the ISP's to keep information for at least two years on clients. The information included everything. Every website visited all IM's and all emails.
From what else I saw it didnt appear they needed any subpeona to obtain the information. They were getting what they wanted by mentioning terrorism investigations.

Obviously, politicians don't understand what they're mandating:

You're looking at massive amounts of data just from typical intrusion detection system for 20-30 servers. 100s of gigabytes a month, and that's nothing more specific than source and dest port/IP, time, and event name. That does NOT include the contents of any packets. Mutiply that by a factor of 500 if you're talking about storing the packet itself.

What should be clear is that: logging all IMs and every website that tens of thousands of internet users are visiting is A VERY VERY LARGE AMOUNT OF DATA.

Expect that your broadband access bill to go up substantially if the ISPs are forced to do this, if it's even technically feasable.

Since 9/11 the governement has been recording all IM's, email traffic and many ISP's traffic. I believe one of the programs they installed at ISP's is called CONDOR.

BUT, they are only focused on terrorism, they really don't have enough resources to mess with copyright stuff or do they really care.

They would search for certain keywords, phrases, and other things that allow them to narrow in on a certain specific item of interest, and capture/store that data.

They would not capture/store everything because the vast majority of it is crap they're not interested in, and would never look at.

Two Words "plausible deniability" Judge "Linksys sent me this wireless access point, i plugged it in and it worked."

I work for a ISP, and I know for a fact. No one is looking at our data besides us. Unless our up-streams are looking at it. But that’s seriously terabytes of data a week. And there would be know way of knowing who is sending that data unless the contact us first.

Adam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Two Words "plausible deniability" Judge
> "Linksys sent me this wireless access point, i
> plugged it in and it worked."

Exactly. But the judge may say one is responsible for their own equipment and account. Although if someone stole your car and robbed a movie store I doubt a judge would clap you in irons, and what the MPAA is saying is basically the same thing. Maybe if they stole your gun and robbed the store he would because one has a duty to secure dangerous items, but a wireless router can't kill as many people as a gun.

Next time use PeerGuardian from phoenixlabs.

pgens, what if you stabbed someone with the antennas?
That would have unlimited ammo as opposed to a gun.

It is enough work for an ISP to keep track of who each IP belongs to, much less all the data exchanged by the IP to another. LEts just take AIm and Myspace and google and wikipedia. suppose there are no other websites. there are 120 million profiles on myspace, maybe that number of AIMers and maybe 500 million googlers and 10 000 searches on wikipedia a second. Suppose that in one minute, on average, a person sends 5 ims, checks out 1 profile, googles 5 things and searches for 1 wikipedia article. Now multiply that by however many people there are doing that thing. lets say 500 million of these activites per second, all around the earth. ok now how many seconds are in a day, or even a week.you are telling me that someone stores ALL that info?for 2 years? that would be more data than...a lot.

Is cox doing this letter crap? Are there any companies that they arent buggin....like limewire?

I got a similar email from Cox a year or two ago. I believe it was regarding a file that was uploaded, not downloaded. I don't personally upload/download files illegally, but the account is under my name.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Suppose that in one minute,
> on average, a person sends 5 ims, checks out 1
> profile, googles 5 things and searches for 1
> wikipedia article. Now multiply that by however
> many people there are doing that thing on the ISP.

jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >Suppose that in one minute,
> > on average, a person sends 5 ims, checks out 1
> > profile, googles 5 things and searches for 1
> > wikipedia article. Now multiply that by however
> > many people there are doing that thing on the
> ISP.

(Whoops posted to by accident)

Okay so lets do the math-

Sends 5 IM's (let's say 70k) + googles 5 things(15k) + searches 1 wikipedia article(5k) = 90k A gig drive can hold how many transactions like this?

1,000,000k/90k bytes= 11,111 transactions in one minute will fill 1GB.

There 2 million people in Northern Virginia you'll need 180 gigs a minute of storage space.

Per Day:
1440 minutes in a day * 180 gigs = 259200 gigs per day

Per Year:
per year 259200/day * 356 days = 92,275,200 GB of storage a year to keep the data.

Number of 1GB drives:
92,275.200 / 100 gb drives = that's 922,752 gig drives

That's a huge datacenter!

(and I have just proved that I am the biggest nerd the planet Earth LOL)

You all have never ever downloaded anything illegally, ever?? I actually know people who have! And none of them ever got a warning from their ISP.

If you're using P2P, youre technically uploading once you recieved parts of the file. In other words, if you've downloaded 50% of the file...50% is available to the community.

Once again, use PeerGuardian to block RIAA, MPAA and their cronies from connecting to your system.

Here's to ya - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz-grdpKVqg

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1,000,000k/90k bytes= 11,111 transactions in one
> minute will fill 1GB.

it's bastards like you that make my "100GB" hard drive 93GB!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

>If you're using P2P, youre technically uploading once you recieved

Right.. technically. But realistically after I have downloaded a file, yes, it is available for others to download. But if I'm sitting there just looking at it, I haven't uploaded it. Uploading is me (or an application) invoking a tool like ftp to send it to a specific remote location.

Lasuena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >If you're using P2P, youre technically uploading
> once you recieved
>
> Right.. technically. But realistically after I
> have downloaded a file, yes, it is available for
> others to download. But if I'm sitting there just
> looking at it, I haven't uploaded it. Uploading
> is me (or an application) invoking a tool like ftp
> to send it to a specific remote location.

Before P2P that was the definition of uploading. Now the definition has changed. If a P2P app is running, you launched it and it is uploading. Nothing unrealistic about it... instead of the old days when people grabbed stuff from one location, they are grabbing stuff from multiple locations. The fact that we take different actions to do the same thing is irrelevant.

Lasuena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >If you're using P2P, youre technically uploading
> once you recieved

this isnt 100% true. i just changed a little code in my app, recompiled and now i dont upload a single byte. :)

suckers.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2006 08:00AM by Gravis.

Most P2P software programs have their defaults set to allow uploading. In some cases if you turn off those settings the software won't allow uploading.

In some cases the "turn off uploading" settings are fake and a person with the right software can pick and choose the information they want to download off your computer like credit card info stored in cookies.

Gravis, LOL 100GB drive that are really 93GB, yup they should say 93GB on the box!

>this isnt 100% true. i just changed a little code in my app, recompiled and now i dont upload a single byte. :)

If my machine has initiated a file transfer to yours, it is uploading.

If my machine has initiated a file transfer from yours, it is downloading.

If your machine receives something from mine, you are downloading.

While my machine just allowed you to do that, it hasn’t initiated a thing, so it isn’t uploading, heh..

Lasuena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While my machine just allowed you to do that, it
> hasn’t initiated a thing, so it isn’t uploading,

dont hold your breath, you wont be getting your CCNA certification.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Couldn't have said it better, Gravis.

i got one of these recently from Cox, so it isn't just Comcast doing this anymore

cox too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i got one of these recently from Cox, so it isn't
> just Comcast doing this anymore


Every ISP does it. The record and movie companies pay other companies to track people sharing stuff online in the US, since the DMCA is US law and not international. Just look at all the fun numerous companies have had trying to take down the pirate bay out of Sweden. I also got a letter from Cox about four years ago in California, some friends of mine had gotten 9 or so. They are mainly a scare tactic, and the companies filing these complaints rely on simply out spending you in court and not actually winning in court since most of their arguments have been proved to not legally hold water (e.g. I have a wireless connection and I forgot to secure it, prove it was me that downloaded the copyrighted work, etc.) The best thing you can do is ignore it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2008 10:56PM by Mofo.

Here's an idea. Stop stealing shit and pay for them. You sound like Gravis, bitching about having to pay for an operating system.

BR too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And if you really want to cover your ass, send a letter (with a copy of
> what you received attached) to the Comcast legal dept. stating that you
> deleted the movie in question and now you understand the rules and won't
> do it again.

This thread is years old now, but it still comes up for a Google search of this Notice from Comcast, and I'll bet people still refer to it when they get a notice like this. So I just want to say a few things. I am legally-trained, but of course I am not YOUR lawyer and you should not construe this post (or ANY internet post - I hope you know better!) as legal advice. These are just some quick thoughts that some might find helpful.

First of all, BR's advice is AWFUL. You would NEVER want to make an admission on the matter of copyright infringement by sending a letter to Comcast's legal department. The fact that you deleted it and "now you understand the rules and won't do it again" is totally irrelevant to whether you infringed. NEVER do anything along these lines - in fact, NEVER TAKE ANY ACTION ON A LEGAL MATTER AS SERIOUS AS INFRINGEMENT WITHOUT CONSULTING AN ATTORNEY. Don't pretend you know what to do or that a Google search or internet post will give you all the info you need! That said, you may not need an attorney in this situation, and may not need to take any action at all (see below). BUT for as long as you are unrepresented, at least be very careful about any words you use regarding the notice both in emails or over the phone to Comcast. Pretend it's like a criminal custodial interrogation: You have the right to remain silent, and anything you say can be used against you. It pays to be paranoid.

Secondly, you can relax at least a little. While these ARE most likely legitimate emails from Comcast (yes, Comcast and other ISPs do send emails like these), the fact is that various activities in the Comcast system can trigger these warnings. Generally they are just that - warnings. They're nags. They're scare tactics. I know people who've received many of these with further no action taken against them. I even know people who torrent freely nonetheless. This is NOT advice to do so, rather it is simply information intended to help you to not freak out. I would perhaps keep the notice on file, but you're most likely safe to ignore it for the time being. That said, it should serve to remind you to be careful and to be smart.

Of course, the best advice is to comply with the law and not to torrent movies and the like. But given that plenty of people reading this won't take that course of action, I'll say that I do think this is a much more complex issue than the very eloquent "stop stealing shit and pay for them" which the user "boredom" posted above. Infringement is simply not "stealing" by any non-imaginary definition of the word. It is, however, legally-proscribed conduct - never forget that much. Check out websites like questioncopyright.org and google terms like "copyleft" for more information on the debate. This is a VERY complex policy issue that very smart and very well educated people debate and disagree on - don't let copyright-owners' cheap ad campaigns convince you that it's "stealing" or even "wrong" just because they want us to believe it is.