The USPS has to be the most fucked up agency not just in the US but the entire world!

Story: I mailed a package to a guy who bought some items from me from a Facebook forum page. He paid me thru Paypal. The package arrived and the contents were damaged. I did purchase the insurance to cover such an occurrence. Now here's where the fun starts.

First of all the USPS website is a complete piece of shit. Nothing works like its supposed to. You can fill out an entire page of information and when you get to the end you get the message "We are having online difficulties, please try again later". Maybe they could have told me that before I started?

After repeated attempts (4) to get this process started, I finally got thru and got a confirmation the claim has been recorded and they will contact me if they need anything additional. I have now been told I need to have the damaged items inspected. I DONT HAVE THEM! They are halfway across the country!

So my first question is.......who should be making the claim....the sender (me) or the recipient (the guy halfway across the country)? Seems to me he should make the claim since he has the damaged items, the box, the packing material etc. And he is the one who is out the money, not me.

Paypal wont do anything.

And forget calling the USPS. After being put on hold for 30-45 minutes you end up with a person who tells me all my questions can be answered on their website. Wonder how much that worthless employee is getting paid? So I say I want a supervisors help please. Worthless employee transfers (or attempts to transfer) the call and I end up back at the main menu having to repeat the process all over again....including being on hold for another 30 minutes. So I finally get someone back on the phone and they tell me any additional information will come by US mail. WHY THE FUCK DO THEY HAVE WEBSITE which allows you to file claims online???????

Help.......I may go postal! The worst part of this is it's all over $45! I wonder how this fucked up agency responds to a big claim?

Holy fucking shit, bruh...45 samoleans? We're talking about $45? Give your customer their money back, don't ever use USPS for anything other than letters and call it a day.

45 dollars...what is this 1817? Forty-five small...what are you...Hebrew?

I got a weenie you can suck!

Huh??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Holy fucking shit, bruh...45 samoleans? We're
> talking about $45? Give your customer their money
> back, don't ever use USPS for anything other than
> letters and call it a day.
>
> 45 dollars...what is this 1817? Forty-five
> small...what are you...Hebrew?

Its the principal bro. If they figure no one will make a stink about $45, then they will raise the bar. Next thing you know it's a $100 claim..........fugget about it!

And why I should I give him his money back? I did my part. I packed the shit in a heavy box with bubble wrap, peanuts, heavy duct tape.....all nice and neat and safe. And the USPS fucked it up. I mean they had to play volley ball with it to break what they broke. We arent talking crystal here. It was items MADE OUT OF METAL!

Fuck no, I'm not letting those lazy overpaid fucks off the hook......even it is was only $5. And for what they charge now for a small box? I sent another package the other day.......from VA to NY.......less than 3 lbs. Cheapest rate available......$27.00

There was a time when shit worked. No more.

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Holy fucking shit, bruh...45 samoleans? We're
> > talking about $45? Give your customer their
> money
> > back, don't ever use USPS for anything other
> than
> > letters and call it a day.
> >
> > 45 dollars...what is this 1817? Forty-five
> > small...what are you...Hebrew?
>
> Its the principal bro. If they figure no one will
> make a stink about $45, then they will raise the
> bar. Next thing you know it's a $100
> claim..........fugget about it!
>
> And why I should I give him his money back? I did
> my part. I packed the shit in a heavy box with
> bubble wrap, peanuts, heavy duct tape.....all nice
> and neat and safe. And the USPS fucked it up. I
> mean they had to play volley ball with it to break
> what they broke. We arent talking crystal here. It
> was items MADE OUT OF METAL!
>
> Fuck no, I'm not letting those lazy overpaid fucks
> off the hook......even it is was only $5. And for
> what they charge now for a small box? I sent
> another package the other day.......from VA to
> NY.......less than 3 lbs. Cheapest rate
> available......$27.00
>
> There was a time when shit worked. No more.

Like you said, bruh...shit don't work now. USPS is big enough and guarded with enough bureaucracy that even someone fully within their rights on a claim valued at $45 is going to be stimied at every turn. There's no way that money will be refunded and if it does...the juice won't be worth the squeezin'.

Refund your customer, or ship another.

Then you can play your game with USPS for as long as you want.

NB: When someone says it's about the "principle" you can be assured it's about the "money."

The Right Stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Refund your customer, or ship another.
>
> Then you can play your game with USPS for as long
> as you want.
>
> NB: When someone says it's about the "principle"
> you can be assured it's about the "money."

I dont have another like what I sent him.

And Paypal policy SPECIFICALLY states shippers are NOT RESPONSIBLE for damage caused by shipping handlers.

I bet you're one of those who just sits there looking stupid when a restaurant brings you the wrong order or just brings you a piece of dog crap after you ordered a filet. Am I right?

Not me buddy. Big business aint pushing this guy around.

That's correct. Reality is that USPS insurance is basically worthless when it comes to selling things to people located elsewhere. Unless maybe you have a very understanding and cooperative customer and even then it's still a pain in the ass. The only time that it really works is when you can show up in person yourself with a damaged package in-hand. Generally speaking, you purchased the insurance so you need to file the claim. Also generally speaking, unless maybe you specified otherwise, then you own and are responsible for the item until it's accepted by the buyer, so damage in-transit by the party acting as your agent (USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc.) is on you. Doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference in the case of something cheap like this but bigger dollar items it may (that's why FOB terms are specified). They may be able to take the package to a local post office and try to work it out on their end but that will depend on getting someone there who understands how it's supposed to work and they'll have to wait a while to get their money.

Most all of my business is online so I have to deal with this fairly regularly. Again unless you have a very understanding customer (or just want to try to be a dick about it) you'll need refund their money. Paypal/credit card companies will rule against you if they file a dispute. Even if USPS does agree to pay, which they probably will eventually if you jump through all of the hoops, then it won't be quickly. The only relatively good aspect to this case is that you have a damaged package that you can show them. It's even worse when they just completely lose stuff. That's basically impossible or at best a 3-6 month wait for your money back. For future reference, USPS and UPS both suck as far as this kind of thing goes. Fedex is a little better but still a pain to wade through.

If you want to spend the time to do it, then the best thing to do to cut through all of the BS is to go to the Consumer Affairs office at Merrifield. It's off of the left-hand door as you face the building. Only open during business hours. But even they can only do so much. You're at the mercy of the massive bureaucratic Borg now and dependent on it working through "the system."

Ask USPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's correct. Reality is that USPS insurance is
> basically worthless when it comes to selling
> things to people located elsewhere. Unless maybe
> you have a very understanding and cooperative
> customer and even then it's still a pain in the
> ass. The only time that it really works is when
> you can show up in person yourself with a damaged
> package in-hand. Generally speaking, you
> purchased the insurance so you need to file the
> claim. Also generally speaking, unless maybe you
> specified otherwise, then you own and are
> responsible for the item until it's accepted by
> the buyer, so damage in-transit by the party
> acting as your agent (USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc.) is
> on you. Doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of
> difference in the case of something cheap like
> this but bigger dollar items it may (that's why
> FOB terms are specified). They may be able to
> take the package to a local post office and try to
> work it out on their end but that will depend on
> getting someone there who understands how it's
> supposed to work and they'll have to wait a while
> to get their money.
>
> Most all of my business is online so I have to
> deal with this fairly regularly. Again unless you
> have a very understanding customer (or just want
> to try to be a dick about it) you'll need refund
> their money. Paypal/credit card companies will
> rule against you if they file a dispute. Even if
> USPS does agree to pay, which they probably will
> eventually if you jump through all of the hoops,
> then it won't be quickly. The only relatively
> good aspect to this case is that you have a
> damaged package that you can show them. It's even
> worse when they just completely lose stuff.
> That's basically impossible or at best a 3-6 month
> wait for your money back. For future reference,
> USPS and UPS both suck as far as this kind of
> thing goes. Fedex is a little better but still a
> pain to wade through.
>
> If you want to spend the time to do it, then the
> best thing to do to cut through all of the BS is
> to go to the Consumer Affairs office at
> Merrifield. It's off of the left-hand door as you
> face the building. Only open during business
> hours. But even they can only do so much. You're
> at the mercy of the massive bureaucratic Borg now
> and dependent on it working through "the system."

You sound like you probably know what you're talking about, but there is something here I don't get.

The buyer paid me for the item. I took it to the Post Office and handed it to a postal employee to deliver. How am I still the owner of said property? Seems to me after it left my possession and money had been handed over to me from the buyer, that it is now the new owners property, not mine. At the point I left it at the PO, I no longer had possession or control of the item......right?

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask USPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's correct. Reality is that USPS insurance
> is
> > basically worthless when it comes to selling
> > things to people located elsewhere. Unless
> maybe
> > you have a very understanding and cooperative
> > customer and even then it's still a pain in the
> > ass. The only time that it really works is
> when
> > you can show up in person yourself with a
> damaged
> > package in-hand. Generally speaking, you
> > purchased the insurance so you need to file the
> > claim. Also generally speaking, unless maybe
> you
> > specified otherwise, then you own and are
> > responsible for the item until it's accepted by
> > the buyer, so damage in-transit by the party
> > acting as your agent (USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc.)
> is
> > on you. Doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of
> > difference in the case of something cheap like
> > this but bigger dollar items it may (that's why
> > FOB terms are specified). They may be able to
> > take the package to a local post office and try
> to
> > work it out on their end but that will depend
> on
> > getting someone there who understands how it's
> > supposed to work and they'll have to wait a
> while
> > to get their money.
> >
> > Most all of my business is online so I have to
> > deal with this fairly regularly. Again unless
> you
> > have a very understanding customer (or just
> want
> > to try to be a dick about it) you'll need
> refund
> > their money. Paypal/credit card companies will
> > rule against you if they file a dispute. Even
> if
> > USPS does agree to pay, which they probably
> will
> > eventually if you jump through all of the
> hoops,
> > then it won't be quickly. The only relatively
> > good aspect to this case is that you have a
> > damaged package that you can show them. It's
> even
> > worse when they just completely lose stuff.
> > That's basically impossible or at best a 3-6
> month
> > wait for your money back. For future
> reference,
> > USPS and UPS both suck as far as this kind of
> > thing goes. Fedex is a little better but still
> a
> > pain to wade through.
> >
> > If you want to spend the time to do it, then
> the
> > best thing to do to cut through all of the BS
> is
> > to go to the Consumer Affairs office at
> > Merrifield. It's off of the left-hand door as
> you
> > face the building. Only open during business
> > hours. But even they can only do so much.
> You're
> > at the mercy of the massive bureaucratic Borg
> now
> > and dependent on it working through "the
> system."
>
> You sound like you probably know what you're
> talking about, but there is something here I don't
> get.
>
> The buyer paid me for the item. I took it to the
> Post Office and handed it to a postal employee to
> deliver. How am I still the owner of said
> property? Seems to me after it left my possession
> and money had been handed over to me from the
> buyer, that it is now the new owners property, not
> mine. At the point I left it at the PO, I no
> longer had possession or control of the
> item......right?

Yes, indeed.

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You sound like you probably know what you're
> talking about, but there is something here I don't
> get.
>
> The buyer paid me for the item. I took it to the
> Post Office and handed it to a postal employee to
> deliver. How am I still the owner of said
> property? Seems to me after it left my possession
> and money had been handed over to me from the
> buyer, that it is now the new owners property, not
> mine. At the point I left it at the PO, I no
> longer had possession or control of the
> item......right?

Right, but neither did the buyer. What if you'd packed the item already damaged? I know, you didn't--but the buyer doesn't know that.

OTOH, this is also why the insurance idea is kind of insane on USPS's part: they also don't know that you didn't pack an already-damaged item. For that matter, the buyer could be a dick, change his mind after you shipped it, and damage the item so he can claim it and get his money back.

Kind of a sucky situation all around. I guess/assume that the shippers do the insurance thing at all based on the fact that most people are honest and that the scammers will show repeated claims, eventually get caught.

None of which excuses them making it difficult. Have you gone to the PO yourself and talked to the postmaster? Again, not saying you should have to, but F2F, folks are more likely to be reasonable. I'd take a deep breath, lose any attitude (not that it's not justified!) and explain that you couldn't find how to claim on the website and called and were on hold forever.

I've had a couple of postmaster experiences in the last 30 years; both times, the guy (both happened to be male) were reasonable and wanted to help. In one case, I'd mailed something registered/return receipt; it came back saying "Insufficient postage" -- the postage sticker had somehow gotten ripped off! Since I had a receipt, the postmaster agreed that that was impossible without my having paid. He then reached into his pocket and paid the postage: there was no mechanism for him to make it right within the system. At that point, I felt like crap over the lousy couple of bucks, even though it wasn't my fault!

Another, only tangentially related story: my sister mailed me a silly Christmas present one year, from Canada to Virginia. When we spoke over the holiday, she asked; I hadn't received it. Mid-January, she went to Canada Post and filed a claim, and they paid up. Like I said, it was a sill gift: some handmade cookies in the shape of hockey items (stick, puck, net, glove).

In mid-April, the package suddenly showed up, in perfect shape -- looked like it had been mailed from next door the day before. The cookies were even edible. Where it had vanished to for months we'll never know! Being an honest person, she went back to Canada Post, and they told her not to worry about it -- they didn't have any way to un-process the paid claim.

Good luck--let us know how it works out!

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask USPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's correct. Reality is that USPS insurance
> is
> > basically worthless when it comes to selling
> > things to people located elsewhere. Unless
> maybe
> > you have a very understanding and cooperative
> > customer and even then it's still a pain in the
> > ass. The only time that it really works is
> when
> > you can show up in person yourself with a
> damaged
> > package in-hand. Generally speaking, you
> > purchased the insurance so you need to file the
> > claim. Also generally speaking, unless maybe
> you
> > specified otherwise, then you own and are
> > responsible for the item until it's accepted by
> > the buyer, so damage in-transit by the party
> > acting as your agent (USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc.)
> is
> > on you. Doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of
> > difference in the case of something cheap like
> > this but bigger dollar items it may (that's why
> > FOB terms are specified). They may be able to
> > take the package to a local post office and try
> to
> > work it out on their end but that will depend
> on
> > getting someone there who understands how it's
> > supposed to work and they'll have to wait a
> while
> > to get their money.
> >
> > Most all of my business is online so I have to
> > deal with this fairly regularly. Again unless
> you
> > have a very understanding customer (or just
> want
> > to try to be a dick about it) you'll need
> refund
> > their money. Paypal/credit card companies will
> > rule against you if they file a dispute. Even
> if
> > USPS does agree to pay, which they probably
> will
> > eventually if you jump through all of the
> hoops,
> > then it won't be quickly. The only relatively
> > good aspect to this case is that you have a
> > damaged package that you can show them. It's
> even
> > worse when they just completely lose stuff.
> > That's basically impossible or at best a 3-6
> month
> > wait for your money back. For future
> reference,
> > USPS and UPS both suck as far as this kind of
> > thing goes. Fedex is a little better but still
> a
> > pain to wade through.
> >
> > If you want to spend the time to do it, then
> the
> > best thing to do to cut through all of the BS
> is
> > to go to the Consumer Affairs office at
> > Merrifield. It's off of the left-hand door as
> you
> > face the building. Only open during business
> > hours. But even they can only do so much.
> You're
> > at the mercy of the massive bureaucratic Borg
> now
> > and dependent on it working through "the
> system."
>
> You sound like you probably know what you're
> talking about, but there is something here I don't
> get.
>
> The buyer paid me for the item. I took it to the
> Post Office and handed it to a postal employee to
> deliver. How am I still the owner of said
> property? Seems to me after it left my possession
> and money had been handed over to me from the
> buyer, that it is now the new owners property, not
> mine. At the point I left it at the PO, I no
> longer had possession or control of the
> item......right?


It depends at what level you want to look at it but a lot of that becomes kind of moot for something like this. Nobody's going to court over $45 and it's not a matter of law so much as a just a matter of practical reality and policies of payment processors like PayPal and credit card companies.

A simple over-the-net sale like this will be virtually always effectively be considered "FOB destination" vs "FOB origin." You can Google for a more complete explanation but basically it means that the seller maintains ownership to the point of delivery vs only to the point that it's handed over to some carrier. Typically, the latter would apply only when the buyer arranges for the shipping directly (e.g., you buy a car or something like a large piece of equipment remotely and you arrange for transport yourself with some third-party carrier). In this case you're the one dealing directly with USPS. You paid them to act as your agent to deliver the item. You bought the insurance. It's for your protection, not the buyer's. Whatever money the buyer paid you is you independent of all of that. They have no direct relationship with the carrier/insurance provider.

Even in the case that you specify some other terms, they're irrelevant as far as PayPal/ebay/credit card companies are concerned. To use their service, you're accepting their terms as far as dispute resolution goes and they'll virtually always side with the buyer if it goes to dispute. You're free beyond that to pursue things legally or practically with an insurance claim on your own however you want but they'll take the money back from you and they'll be done with it. All that a buyer has to do is say that the item was received "not as described." Per their "Buyer Protection" if it's received damaged, then it's not as described. Done. You're screwed.

Think about it from the other side... If you order something from Amazon, Sears, or wherever and it doesn't show up or comes all fucked up, would you assume that's on you? Very likely not. You'd contact the seller. If they didn't make it right, then you'd either just suck it up or dispute it with your credit card company. As I said, they'll virtually always side with the buyer in a case like this. No difference as a seller in your case. There may be times where PayPal will do some exception or you may have a cooperative customer who's willing to deal with the insurance and you can send them the receipt, etc., but +90% of the time it's on you as a seller to make it right with the buyer and then deal with it from your side.

I ordered a replacement laptop screen once and it was never delivered. There was nothing I could do since the tracking showed it being delivered.

I recently was asked to respond to a USPS survey. One of the questions was something like, "How likely are you to consider using USPS for your shipping needs?"

I told them I would NEVER choose to use USPS because of a "guaranteed" Express delivery *** from 33 years ago *** that turned out to be anything but. The item was never delivered and the Express shipping fees not refunded. With that one transaction, they lost the business of my entire family for generations.

American Express is another company that my family will not do business with, all because they screwed with our patriarch in 1962 (billing error that took years for AmEx to correct).

--

pDmv9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently was asked to respond to a USPS survey.
> One of the questions was something like, "How
> likely are you to consider using USPS for your
> shipping needs?"
>
> I told them I would NEVER choose to use USPS
> because of a "guaranteed" Express delivery ***
> from 33 years ago *** that turned out to be
> anything but. The item was never delivered and the
> Express shipping fees not refunded. With that one
> transaction, they lost the business of my entire
> family for generations.
>
> American Express is another company that my family
> will not do business with, all because they
> screwed with our patriarch in 1962 (billing error
> that took years for AmEx to correct).

Yeah, they all (I think) say that they won't refund shipping costs, no matter what, which has always amazed me.

FWIW, I worked with a woman who wouldn't use UPS, because they lost all her bridesmaids' dresses. Not late, lost, gone, never appeared nowhere nohow. I used to hear her on the phone (this was circa 2000, when folks still ordered stuff on the phone!) saying "Isn't there some other way you can send it?" and cancelling the order if the answer was "No"!

eDJyU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I ordered a replacement laptop screen once and it
> was never delivered. There was nothing I could do
> since the tracking showed it being delivered.


You must not have tried very hard then. All you need to do is call your credit card company or PayPal and tell them that it wasn't received. The burden of proof then is on the seller to show that it was delivered. Unless it's signed for then just showing up in their system as delivered doesn't mean anything. That happens all the time when they leave things at a wrong address. If the seller follows all of their requirements then PayPal will cover loss for a seller under their "Seller Protection" but they're doing that out of their pocket not the buyers.

> Maybe they could have told me that before I started?

programming wise - it's complete bullshit that a form can be started (sent to you, filled in by you) but cannot be submitted

but USPS is not the only gang who are doing the "404 not found" game on the internet - many seedy parts of the internet are taking refuge with that excuse. what did you expect from obama.gov

------------------------------------
"going postal" was a video game, postal workers were very upset. low pay (patriotic job, good stability: but they were getting taunted - and replaced by f'ing foreigners who were then paid more. that angered them to no end i imagine.)

you are correct the whole thing is a scam - but i think it's not all of USPS participating (really, with black dc gov running the post office - maybe it is) - but i've run into shipping scams at local USPS myself

there are scams being run and at least our local USPS is helping the scams, and they are doing it for money

the scam that last happened to me: differencial return

i was shipped bullshit anyone would know i'd return. the shipping to me must have been only dollars - and i suspect was from georgia or some depot not china as it said on package (it's easy to print a false label @@@)

for return of new item w/in 30 day - I WAS CHARGED CLOSER TO A HUNDRED DOLLARS than $20 to return an item that costed closer to $20. I said "that's impossible - the shipping back is more than the prodcut with shipping costse?". they just shook their heads and said "there's nothing we can do - we'll call police if you don't finish the sale or leave".

i was then screwed i had to fight with the intermediary i ordered it through to get the seller to pay - i had a return receipt but the seller kept lying to the intermediary about having refunded me and about whether i shipped the item.

U4n3J Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> programming wise - it's complete bullshit that a
> form can be started (sent to you, filled in by
> you) but cannot be submitted

Um, no. Admittedly most sites won't even both to check the state of the backend when the form is served, and should. But HTTP is stateless, so the server side could be fine when you start, and be down by the time you've finished filling out the form.

For that matter, with modern CDNs and multi-tier architectures, the entire navigation up to the point of form submission could well be happening on an entirely different set of systems than the ultimate submission to the system of record, with no good way to even test that path beforehand.

Having said that, a pet peeve is sites that lose your input in cases like this. If I've filled out a form and submission fails, at least reshow the filled-in form, so I can record my sterling prose for when I resubmit it later!

Basically, most web "programmers" think they're doing applications work, when they're really doing systems work.

As I've said for more than three decades:
Applications people think about how it will work.
Systems people think about how it will fail.

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuck no, I'm not letting those lazy overpaid fucks
> off the hook......even it is was only $5. And for
> what they charge now for a small box? I sent
> another package the other day.......from VA to
> NY.......less than 3 lbs. Cheapest rate
> available......$27.00

I don't know about the rest of your post but this part is total bullshit.

USPS toll free number voice mail menu makes it extremely difficult to reach a human. If an issue, have had better success calling or visiting the local post office.

Where feasible, I take my business elsewhere. A large box over 12" cubed I sent over the holidays was $5 cheaper to ship with UPS. I pay almost of my bills online. I use email, text, cell phone to contacts others personally and with businesses. Seldom do I write a letter sent through postal mail. That said, there are times I use USPS to mail letter size items, mostly birthday and Christmas cards where the older (60s+) recipient is not electronically connected well. And I often cannot control what shipper orders from Amazon and other online businesses come from, unless that info is posted on their websites.

No carrier is perfect, though have to say USPS is better than Lasership with HQ in Fairfax County/Tysons. There is a forum post https://www.amazon.com/forum/amazon%20carrier%20feedback/ref=cm_cd_pg_oldest/166-1963049-2957438?_encoding=UTF8&authToken=&cdForum=Fx2KOZSYK6OUZ6Y&cdPage=1&cdSort=newest&cdThread=Tx27GEWWFTOKU9T with over 6000 posts (yes 6000), mostly complaints over lost, stolen, and damaged packages, even property, and deliveries in the night. Some of the Lasership delivery mishap stories are funny, yet sad, and if you are bored, good reading.

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Holy fucking shit, bruh...45 samoleans? We're
> > talking about $45? Give your customer their
> money
> > back, don't ever use USPS for anything other
> than
> > letters and call it a day.
> >
> > 45 dollars...what is this 1817? Forty-five
> > small...what are you...Hebrew?
>
> Its the principal bro. If they figure no one will
> make a stink about $45, then they will raise the
> bar. Next thing you know it's a $100
> claim..........fugget about it!
>
> And why I should I give him his money back? I did
> my part. I packed the shit in a heavy box with
> bubble wrap, peanuts, heavy duct tape.....all nice
> and neat and safe. And the USPS fucked it up. I
> mean they had to play volley ball with it to break
> what they broke. We arent talking crystal here. It
> was items MADE OUT OF METAL!
>
> Fuck no, I'm not letting those lazy overpaid fucks
> off the hook......even it is was only $5. And for
> what they charge now for a small box? I sent
> another package the other day.......from VA to
> NY.......less than 3 lbs. Cheapest rate
> available......$27.00
>
> There was a time when shit worked. No more.

If you paid $27.00, you must have used some type of express service. For a 3 lb package to go from here to NY it is $8 or $9.

You did not use the cheapest rage.

^rate

OP bruh...one of the dads at school is a postal lawyer...he would completely agree with you on a personal level...but professionally he will f your sh up...
listen to the poster who told you to use post office for mail and chalk it up to a learning experience....or keep pounding that stone hoping for water

The bottom line is no matter who you use to ship, be it USPS, UPS, FedEx, whoever, you are going get fucked in the ass. Either by the outrageous cost or the brutal and reckless way they treat other people's property. Usually both!

If you want a to see the real world of shipping, go to an airport and watch the monkeys loading the FedEx or UPS planes. Im surprised anything arrives in one piece after watching them.

Can you go to the post office where you mailed it out from and ask to speak to a manager there?

bahhhd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you go to the post office where you mailed it
> out from and ask to speak to a manager there?

I had a package lost by USPS last year and my local post office (where it was sent from) said all that shit has to be done online. You can't expect PO employees to actually have to do any work helping the public do you?

Asleep at The Wheel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bahhhd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you go to the post office where you mailed
> it
> > out from and ask to speak to a manager there?
>
> I had a package lost by USPS last year and my
> local post office (where it was sent from) said
> all that shit has to be done online. You can't
> expect PO employees to actually have to do any
> work helping the public do you?

I would think that an insurance claim where the package and contents has to literally be seen by a postal employee is actually something that they do handle at the post office. I would ask to speak to a manager in order to find out what needs to be done in order to make the claim. Probably the recipient will have to take the damaged package/contents to the post office to prove that it is in fact damaged.

bahhhd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I would think that an insurance claim where the
> package and contents has to literally be seen by a
> postal employee is actually something that they do
> handle at the post office. I would ask to speak
> to a manager in order to find out what needs to be
> done in order to make the claim. Probably the
> recipient will have to take the damaged
> package/contents to the post office to prove that
> it is in fact damaged.

Haha....do you honestly think the Post Office would dispute damaging something? It probably happens 10,000 times day across the country. If people had to follow your procedures, they would need a Post Office the size of FedEx Field to accommodate the crowds of angry customers.

"we'll call police if you don't finish the sale or leave"

I have a feeling you hear this phrase quite often.

You are the weakest link.


49u49 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the scam that last happened to me: differencial
> return
>
> i was shipped bullshit anyone would know i'd
> return. the shipping to me must have been only
> dollars - and i suspect was from georgia or some
> depot not china as it said on package (it's easy
> to print a false label @@@)
>
> for return of new item w/in 30 day - I WAS CHARGED
> CLOSER TO A HUNDRED DOLLARS than $20 to return an
> item that costed closer to $20. I said "that's
> impossible - the shipping back is more than the
> prodcut with shipping costse?". they just shook
> their heads and said "there's nothing we can do -
> we'll call police if you don't finish the sale or
> leave".
>
> i was then screwed i had to fight with the
> intermediary i ordered it through to get the
> seller to pay - i had a return receipt but the
> seller kept lying to the intermediary about having
> refunded me and about whether i shipped the item.

The Post Office MO is too make the damage claim procedure so frustrating and confounding and tedious so as to scare away 3/4 of the people attempting to make a claim and recover damages. Ive had to do it once or twice and you better have the patience of a saint and be prepared for every bueracratic roadblock imaginable before you get any satisfaction.

Lots of people just give up which I suspect this OP will do considering the amount of money involved which is peanuts.

Having said that, I do applaud people who at least attempt to hold those worthless Postal workers accountable any chance they get.

https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm#domestic

Going Postal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bahhhd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > I would think that an insurance claim where the
> > package and contents has to literally be seen by
> a
> > postal employee is actually something that they
> do
> > handle at the post office. I would ask to
> speak
> > to a manager in order to find out what needs to
> be
> > done in order to make the claim. Probably the
> > recipient will have to take the damaged
> > package/contents to the post office to prove
> that
> > it is in fact damaged.
>
> Haha....do you honestly think the Post Office
> would dispute damaging something? It probably
> happens 10,000 times day across the country. If
> people had to follow your procedures, they would
> need a Post Office the size of FedEx Field to
> accommodate the crowds of angry customers.


Actually they very often do...

Quote

Proof of Damage

Photos that clearly show the extent of damage will help with your case. For damaged claims, you’ll also need to provide an estimate of the repair costs from a reputable dealer.

If you received something damaged, please hang onto the original packaging and the damaged item until your claim is settled. You may be asked to take them to your local Post Office™ for inspection later. Please do not reship the package.

The Right Stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Refund your customer, or ship another.
>
> Then you can play your game with USPS for as long
> as you want.
>
> NB: When someone says it's about the "principle"
> you can be assured it's about the "money."

This is life living advise here. Just wanted to point that out.

I still don't understand why so many here think the OP should have to do a damn thing? He's not the one who fucked up the merchandise, the PO employees did.

Like an earlier post said, the guy who received the package was the owner of said property once he paid for it and it left the Post Office of the seller.

What am I missing here? Is there some case law that covers this?

Besides, the purchaser has the damaged property and the box and packaging. Wouldn't the Post Office want to see those things in order to make a decision?

Op insured the package. The recipient rec'd the package with damaged contents, Can the recipient collect on the claim? If so, the recipient should file a claim and leave op out of it.

cornplex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Op insured the package. The recipient rec'd the
> package with damaged contents, Can the recipient
> collect on the claim? If so, the recipient should
> file a claim and leave op out of it.

No because that would be too logical.

Confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still don't understand why so many here think
> the OP should have to do a damn thing? He's not
> the one who fucked up the merchandise, the PO
> employees did.
>
> Like an earlier post said, the guy who received
> the package was the owner of said property once he
> paid for it and it left the Post Office of the
> seller.
>
> What am I missing here? Is there some case law
> that covers this?

Already explained above.

USPS isn't some official intermediary which accepts ownership for someone receiving a package. They're simply a shipping service that the seller chooses to use. You handing a package to them means nothing from the buyer's side. Insurance that a seller purchases is for their protection, not the buyer's.

Beyond generalities, in this case specifically they paid via PayPal. When a seller accepts PayPal as a form of payment, they agree to accept its terms. One of those terms is that you agree to its various policies and dispute process. One key aspect of that is that the goods received must be as described. Damage during transport is a specific case noted which may cause things not to be received as described. In the case that an item is received "signifiantly not as described" (SNAD), then all that a buyer needs to do is open a dispute on that basis. They will prevail simply on the basis that the item was damaged during shipping. PayPal then will refund their money from your account. If you want the item returned, then they can go into PayPal and generate a return label which also will be deducted from your account.


> Besides, the purchaser has the damaged property
> and the box and packaging. Wouldn't the Post
> Office want to see those things in order to make a
> decision?

Sometimes. Along in some cases with proof of value/purchase and other information. Which is a big part of why I said above that USPS insurance is a pain in the ass and basically worthless when it comes to selling things to customers.

cornplex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Op insured the package. The recipient rec'd the
> package with damaged contents, Can the recipient
> collect on the claim? If so, the recipient should
> file a claim and leave op out of it.


They can in some cases if they wanted to go through the trouble. In others USPS may want more information and proof of value, etc., which they may not have.

As a buyer there's really no reason to do that when they can just contact the seller and get a refund or dispute it. Why would they want to deal with all that mess and the delay when they can have their money back in a matter of days and be done with it? Would you? If so then I have some broken returned shit that I can send you. lol

Ask USPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cornplex Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Op insured the package. The recipient rec'd the
> > package with damaged contents, Can the
> recipient
> > collect on the claim? If so, the recipient
> should
> > file a claim and leave op out of it.
>
>
> They can in some cases if they wanted to go
> through the trouble. In others USPS may want more
> information and proof of value, etc., which they
> may not have.
>
> As a buyer there's really no reason to do that
> when they can just contact the seller and get a
> refund or dispute it. Why would they want to deal
> with all that mess and the delay when they can
> have their money back in a matter of days and be
> done with it? Would you? If so then I have some
> broken returned shit that I can send you. lol

So when does the worthless no good Post Office take responsibility. What a fucking scam they are running. What rights does a seller have if he has to prove something he doesn't even have in his custody was broken in shipping? And how does the seller know if this damage wasn't caused by the buyer simply because he didn't like what he bought and this is a way to get his money back?

Hmmmmmmmm?

Ok lets try to put this in perspective.

When you buy a REAL car, once the buyer pays you the agreed price and you sign the title over, the car belongs to the buyer. Now, obviously toys or whatever was being bought here dont have titles. So lets say the guy buys the car and then arranges to have it shipped to him by a 3rd party (which in this case would be the USPS). Lets say the dude driving the truck to haul the car fucks up and damages the car. Whose car is it? Its the buyers car. Who is out the money? The buyer is. Who makes a claim to recover for the damages? The buyer.....who is now actually the owner.

Anything incorrect about this scenario?

I think Paypal is putting too much responsibility on the seller who had absolutely NOTHING to do with the item being damaged. This simple laws of responsibility.

Ask USPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cornplex Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Op insured the package. The recipient rec'd the
> > package with damaged contents, Can the
> recipient
> > collect on the claim? If so, the recipient
> should
> > file a claim and leave op out of it.
>
>
> They can in some cases if they wanted to go
> through the trouble. In others USPS may want more
> information and proof of value, etc., which they
> may not have.
>
> As a buyer there's really no reason to do that
> when they can just contact the seller and get a
> refund or dispute it. Why would they want to deal
> with all that mess and the delay when they can
> have their money back in a matter of days and be
> done with it? Would you? If so then I have some
> broken returned shit that I can send you. lol

The recipient is going to need to provide some sort of proof to Op (in the form of pictures) that the box/contents were received damaged. Or at least I would certainly require that as a seller before issuing a refund to them.

Op can then use those pictures to make the insurance claim and then refund the money to the recipient.

cornplex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Op can then use those pictures to make the
> insurance claim and then refund the money to the
> recipient.


^ THAT is exactly what I would do. USPS pays me, you send me back the damaged item. You (buyer) get your money back. USPS won't pay, buyer is SOL. He can file his own claim then.

What doesn't make sense about that?

USPS SCAM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask USPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cornplex Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Op insured the package. The recipient rec'd
> the
> > > package with damaged contents, Can the
> > recipient
> > > collect on the claim? If so, the recipient
> > should
> > > file a claim and leave op out of it.
> >
> >
> > They can in some cases if they wanted to go
> > through the trouble. In others USPS may want
> more
> > information and proof of value, etc., which
> they
> > may not have.
> >
> > As a buyer there's really no reason to do that
> > when they can just contact the seller and get a
> > refund or dispute it. Why would they want to
> deal
> > with all that mess and the delay when they can
> > have their money back in a matter of days and
> be
> > done with it? Would you? If so then I have
> some
> > broken returned shit that I can send you. lol
>
> So when does the worthless no good Post Office
> take responsibility.

They take responsibility when the damage is caused by them - squashed package, lost package, etc. Which is one reason why they want to inspect the package to determine whether things were properly packaged and assess the cause of the damage. (BTW, that's UPS' usual Catch 22 first try way of getting out of claims. They say that things must be properly packaged to prevent damage. So if there's damage, then obviously it wasn't properly packaged.)

> What a fucking scam they are
> running. What rights does a seller have if he has
> to prove something he doesn't even have in his
> custody was broken in shipping?

Basially none. Which is why I said above that the insurance is a pain in the ass and basically worthless in these cases. If you're shipping something to Grandma who has nothing better to do for the next 3 months than chase a USPS claim, then it works OK.

> And how does the
> seller know if this damage wasn't caused by the
> buyer simply because he didn't like what he bought
> and this is a way to get his money back?
>
> Hmmmmmmmm?

That would be an exception circumstance which, while it may happen in some rare cases, vs shipping damage which happens routinely it's not a likely scenario and the process and terms for how things work are designed to address the common case and work as I described above. You can like it or not and bitch and moan along the way, but that's the way that it will work out in the end. I deal with this crap all the time as does anyone else who sells online as a business or otherwise enough that the odds eventually catch up with them. Damaged and lost packages come with the territory and are just a risk and cost that you bear. Again, you wouldn't expect that it would work any other way when you're the buyer. Unless you made some specific alternate arrangements, then you paid for something and you didn't get it. No reason why you should pay for it or have to deal with a tedious insurance claim.

Ask USPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> then you paid for something and you didn't get it.
> No reason why you should pay for it or have to
> deal with a tedious insurance claim.

See this is where I completely disagree. When the package was damaged the contents were THE BUYERS PROPERTY. He had paid for it. It's his shit. It's not the USPS property. Its no longer the sellers property. If you claim it is still the sellers property in transit, when exactly does it become the buyer property?

Atty At Large Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok lets try to put this in perspective.
>
> When you buy a REAL car, once the buyer pays you
> the agreed price and you sign the title over, the
> car belongs to the buyer. Now, obviously toys or
> whatever was being bought here dont have titles.
> So lets say the guy buys the car and then arranges
> to have it shipped to him by a 3rd party (which in
> this case would be the USPS). Lets say the dude
> driving the truck to haul the car fucks up and
> damages the car. Whose car is it? Its the buyers
> car. Who is out the money? The buyer is. Who makes
> a claim to recover for the damages? The
> buyer.....who is now actually the owner.
>
> Anything incorrect about this scenario?


Not incorrect, just not applicable. See my response earlier in the thread. I used the same example of a case where it would not apply because the buyer is the one entering into a relationship with the transport company directly. That's not the case for simple over-the-web sales as in the OP.

>
> I think Paypal is putting too much responsibility
> on the seller who had absolutely NOTHING to do
> with the item being damaged. This simple laws of
> responsibility.

You can think whatever you want. When you accept PayPal (or credit cards too) you agree to their terms and dispute process and that's how it works. If you don't like it, then you don't have to use their service.

Ask USPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> You can think whatever you want. When you accept
> PayPal (or credit cards too) you agree to their
> terms and dispute process and that's how it works.
> If you don't like it, then you don't have to use
> their service.


haha I dont. Ive seen the way the USPS gorillas and FedEx flunkies and UPS shitheads handle packages. You buy something from me, come get it have it shipped yourself. You make the arrangements, pay the fee and I will hand them the package when they come to pick it up. These con artists get away with way too much.

Perry Masonary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask USPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > then you paid for something and you didn't get
> it.
> > No reason why you should pay for it or have to
> > deal with a tedious insurance claim.
>
> See this is where I completely disagree. When the
> package was damaged the contents were THE BUYERS
> PROPERTY. He had paid for it. It's his shit. It's
> not the USPS property. Its no longer the sellers
> property. If you claim it is still the sellers
> property in transit, when exactly does it become
> the buyer property?


When received and accepted. One again as above, see the terms "FOB destination" vs "FOB origin." That's why they exist (and for accounting purposes). Unless otherwise specified virtually all simple sales like this will work on an effective FOB destination basis. When paid by PayPal specifically so per its terms.

Hey Atty at Large, in case you haven't realized it yet, this Ask USPS person is a postal employee and has probably broken, smashed, flattened, or otherwise destroyed his fair share of stuff he's handled over the years.

He will have a convoluted non sense answer for everything. That's part of their deception training. Their goal is to break people's will to follow thru with getting made whole. But you're getting a good taste of what it's like filing a claim against the USPS. DONT LET THEM PUSH YOU AROUND. Ask me how I know!

Perry Masonary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See this is where I completely disagree. When the
> package was damaged the contents were THE BUYERS
> PROPERTY. He had paid for it. It's his shit. It's
> not the USPS property. Its no longer the sellers
> property. If you claim it is still the sellers
> property in transit, when exactly does it become
> the buyer property?

When the buyer receives it. You're not necessarily being illogical, it just isn't how it works. Lots of case law has affirmed that the item isn't owned until it's received. In fact, one of the largest categories of credit card fraud is called "Friendly Fraud": this is when a buyer claims not to have received something that he actually did.

Note also that the insurance contract is between the shipper and the shipping company, not the buyer and the shipping company. Again, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way, but that's how things work. Since this isn't intuitive, sellers wind up begging buyers to return damaged merchandise so they can make the claim; the buyer, of course, is already pissed off and may refuse to do so, and things go downhill from there...

If it worked differently, I do think you'd have to have some neutral, trusted third-party who would verify the basics about the item shipped. You'd still have disputes -- "Yes, it was a Star Wars figure, but not the original one promised", or "Yes, it looked like a Picasso sketch, but it was actually a Xerox copy of one" -- but that's true no matter what. And of course this is why folks generally don't buy high-end art on eBay.

See http://xkcd.com/325/ for a topical reference.

HvDUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Atty at Large, in case you haven't realized it
> yet, this Ask USPS person is a postal employee and
> has probably broken, smashed, flattened, or
> otherwise destroyed his fair share of stuff he's
> handled over the years.
>
> He will have a convoluted non sense answer for
> everything. That's part of their deception
> training. Their goal is to break people's will to
> follow thru with getting made whole. But you're
> getting a good taste of what it's like filing a
> claim against the USPS. DONT LET THEM PUSH YOU
> AROUND. Ask me how I know!


Uh, no... I run my own manufacturing business and I've just had to deal with this kind of thing many times over many years. If you didn't notice I said that USPS insurance is a pain in the ass and basically worthless so your dumb conclusion doesn't even really make any sense.

But you don't have to take my word for it. Go look at PayPal's site directly and/or search/post on any of the many sites related to online sales. Whether you like it or not you'll get the same answer. This is all common, everyday shit that sellers have to deal with.

Ask USPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HvDUM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey Atty at Large, in case you haven't realized
> it
> > yet, this Ask USPS person is a postal employee
> and
> > has probably broken, smashed, flattened, or
> > otherwise destroyed his fair share of stuff
> he's
> > handled over the years.
> >
> > He will have a convoluted non sense answer for
> > everything. That's part of their deception
> > training. Their goal is to break people's will
> to
> > follow thru with getting made whole. But you're
> > getting a good taste of what it's like filing a
> > claim against the USPS. DONT LET THEM PUSH YOU
> > AROUND. Ask me how I know!
>
>
> Uh, no... I run my own manufacturing business and
> I've just had to deal with this kind of thing many
> times over many years. If you didn't notice I
> said that USPS insurance is a pain in the ass and
> basically worthless so your dumb conclusion
> doesn't even really make any sense.
>
> But you don't have to take my word for it. Go
> look at PayPal's site directly and/or search/post
> on any of the many sites related to online sales.
> Whether you like it or not you'll get the same
> answer. This is all common, everyday shit that
> sellers have to deal with.

OK I have had a chance to read thru this saga since I just got home a while ago. I think I can help.

Number 1- Dont listen to this USPS employee above. He's a fucking retard.

All you need to do is go to the Post Office where the delivery originated from and ask to speak to the Postmaster. Give him all the details, If he tells you you have to file online tell him you dont have a computer or access to the internet. Tell him you want an expedited claim review. Give him whatever info he needs (tracking number, pics, receipts, whatever) and let him/her follow up with USPS claims. Ive done this many times. There will be no bullshit, no excuses (like Ask USPS seems to be full of) and the claim will sail right thru. As somone else stated, the entire MO of the USPS is to discourage you and make you give up.

Ain't America great? The USPS is the most corrupt, mismanaged, and worthless agency in this entire country. They are raising prices like a drunken sailor and still going broke. They need to be blown up and rebuilt from ground zero. And fire every single employee. They have a culture that cant be changed. It must be killed.

If Op has to provide proof to Usps that the package/contents were actually damaged in order to be reimbursed by the insurance, then it is only fair that the recipient provide proof to the shipper (Op) the the box/contents were actually received damaged.

FuGEU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ask USPS Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HvDUM Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Hey Atty at Large, in case you haven't
> realized
> > it
> > > yet, this Ask USPS person is a postal
> employee
> > and
> > > has probably broken, smashed, flattened, or
> > > otherwise destroyed his fair share of stuff
> > he's
> > > handled over the years.
> > >
> > > He will have a convoluted non sense answer
> for
> > > everything. That's part of their deception
> > > training. Their goal is to break people's
> will
> > to
> > > follow thru with getting made whole. But
> you're
> > > getting a good taste of what it's like filing
> a
> > > claim against the USPS. DONT LET THEM PUSH
> YOU
> > > AROUND. Ask me how I know!
> >
> >
> > Uh, no... I run my own manufacturing business
> and
> > I've just had to deal with this kind of thing
> many
> > times over many years. If you didn't notice I
> > said that USPS insurance is a pain in the ass
> and
> > basically worthless so your dumb conclusion
> > doesn't even really make any sense.
> >
> > But you don't have to take my word for it. Go
> > look at PayPal's site directly and/or
> search/post
> > on any of the many sites related to online
> sales.
> > Whether you like it or not you'll get the same
> > answer. This is all common, everyday shit that
> > sellers have to deal with.
>
> OK I have had a chance to read thru this saga
> since I just got home a while ago. I think I can
> help.
>
> Number 1- Dont listen to this USPS employee above.
> He's a fucking retard.
>
> All you need to do is go to the Post Office where
> the delivery originated from and ask to speak to
> the Postmaster. Give him all the details, If he
> tells you you have to file online tell him you
> dont have a computer or access to the internet.
> Tell him you want an expedited claim review. Give
> him whatever info he needs (tracking number, pics,
> receipts, whatever) and let him/her follow up with
> USPS claims. Ive done this many times. There will
> be no bullshit, no excuses (like Ask USPS seems to
> be full of) and the claim will sail right thru. As
> somone else stated, the entire MO of the USPS is
> to discourage you and make you give up.


That wasn't the question dumbshit.

>
> Ain't America great? The USPS is the most corrupt,
> mismanaged, and worthless agency in this entire
> country. They are raising prices like a drunken
> sailor and still going broke. They need to be
> blown up and rebuilt from ground zero. And fire
> every single employee. They have a culture that
> cant be changed. It must be killed.

Yes, if the SELLER goes through the process and they are at fault then (at least usually) they will pay. But again, that wasn't the question.

Just went to USPS site https://www.usps.com/ to track a package. On its home page is message about 'Making a Move?' such as moving your home or business address, but there is this picture with it of a young guy looking with an eye toward a young lady and/or vice versa, ready to make a move in another way, which IMO is somewhat sexually proactive for a national website which many people come to. With the USPS offering an option to block sexually proactive postal mail, it seems IMO some sort of double standard here?

So how does it change things, when most often the buyer picks the shipper vs. very less often, the buyer says to the seller, I want it shipped with this carrier?

Lets do this again... So how does it change things, when most often the seller picks the shipper vs. very less often, the buyer says to the seller, I want it shipped with this carrier?

Total troll post OP. No USPS doesnt suck that bad. I have had them deliever packages worth hundreds of dollars no problem. You have to package your goods better dont just put your item in a box. Youre a lot like that dumbass that mailed a living bird.

KLJnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just went to USPS site https://www.usps.com/ to
> track a package. On its home page is message
> about 'Making a Move?' such as moving your home or
> business address, but there is this picture with
> it of a young guy looking with an eye toward a
> young lady and/or vice versa, ready to make a move
> in another way, which IMO is somewhat sexually
> proactive for a national website which many people
> come to. With the USPS offering an option to
> block sexually proactive postal mail, it seems IMO
> some sort of double standard here?

ITYM "provocative". Because English.

***UPDATE***

This I CANNOT BELIEVE!

Called USPS this morning regarding the status of my claim. I was initially confused because I received an email from USPS indicating they had received my claim and it was being investigated. However, when I went to the USPS website it indicates there was no record of my claim.

So I called. After weaving my way thru their intentionally confusing menu options I finally reached an actual living breathing person who gave me a special phone number for claims (866-974-2753). I asked the young lady why this number was nowhere to be found on their website and she stated, I shit you not....."I guess they don't want people calling them".

So, I call this number, enter my tracking number and claim number and I get a recorded message that stated...."Your claim has been approved for payment and a check will be issued in 48 hours".

Now, since this is the USPS, I'm extremely hesitant to believe this but as of now it's all I got.

Anybody who has had experience filing a claim with the USPS, does sound plausible?

Confused Wrote:
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> I still don't understand why so many here think
> the OP should have to do a damn thing? He's not
> the one who fucked up the merchandise, the PO
> employees did.

In the law there is a concept called CONSTRUCTIVE POSSESSION. It is a legal fiction which says that even if you don't actually have possession of an item, you will be considered for legal purposes to have possession of the item. Usually this is because either the item is in the possession of someone considered to be your agent, or because it is in close physical proximity to you. When you mail an item, the USPS is considered to be your agent for purposes of delivering the item, just as if you sent an employee to deliver the item the employee would be your agent. So long as the item is in the agent's possession, it is legally considered to be in your possession, and you bear the risks of misdelivery, damage or destruction. It is these risks that insurance was intended to protect.

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
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> ***UPDATE***
>
> This I CANNOT BELIEVE!
>
> Called USPS this morning regarding the status of
> my claim. I was initially confused because I
> received an email from USPS indicating they had
> received my claim and it was being investigated.
> However, when I went to the USPS website it
> indicates there was no record of my claim.
>
> So I called. After weaving my way thru their
> intentionally confusing menu options I finally
> reached an actual living breathing person who gave
> me a special phone number for claims
> (866-974-2753). I asked the young lady why this
> number was nowhere to be found on their website
> and she stated, I shit you not....."I guess they
> don't want people calling them".
>
> So, I call this number, enter my tracking number
> and claim number and I get a recorded message that
> stated...."Your claim has been approved for
> payment and a check will be issued in 48 hours".
>
> Now, since this is the USPS, I'm extremely
> hesitant to believe this but as of now it's all I
> got.
>
> Anybody who has had experience filing a claim with
> the USPS, does sound plausible?

That's amazing, but I wouldn't count those chickens just yet. The USPS is run and staffed by criminals and lots and lots of niggers.

Believe it or not, usually what they tell you on the phone is correct. The problem is most people give up before they can navigate their way thru the post office phone menu nightmare.

I did like the comment about asking why the claims specific phone number is nowhere and the website and what the answer was. That's classic post office. Fuck the people, I'm on break.

Legal Warning Wrote:
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> In the law there is a concept called CONSTRUCTIVE
> POSSESSION. It is a legal fiction which says that
> even if you don't actually have possession of an
> item, you will be considered for legal purposes to
> have possession of the item. Usually this is
> because either the item is in the possession of
> someone considered to be your agent, or because it
> is in close physical proximity to you. When you
> mail an item, the USPS is considered to be your
> agent for purposes of delivering the item, just as
> if you sent an employee to deliver the item the
> employee would be your agent. So long as the item
> is in the agent's possession, it is legally
> considered to be in your possession, and you bear
> the risks of misdelivery, damage or destruction.
> It is these risks that insurance was intended to
> protect.

Good thought, but constructive possession requires control or dominion (great word, that!) over the item. When the USPS has it, the recipient doesn't have any control or dominion yet. Plus I'd bet large coin that all the carriers have wording that exempts them, *especially* USPS, which is, ya know, related to the government.

Look at it this way: If simply sending someone something put it into their possession, anonymously mailing drugs to someone would let you put anyone you wanted in jail...

Personally, I am glad to see the OP may be getting his money from USPS. Maybe there is hope for the rest of us.

I know in 10 years of mailing items and receiving items, I have had my fair share of smashed and destroyed shit and I know making a claim is a monumental pain in the ass. I honestly think they do it on purpose because they know there is never any accountability or punishment.

Yikes......OP here.

So I go to the USPS website this morning, enter my tracking number, go to claims page, NO RECORD OF ANY CLAIM FILED! This is after I was told yesterday by a living breathing person (I think) that the claim was processed and check would be issued in 48 hours.

So, being curious, I call my special magic direct line to USPS claims and inquire. The lady I spoke to gave me the check number, had my address, told me the check was for $50 (which was the amount of the insurance I had) and said it was processed today. I asked why there is no record of the claim on the USPS website under Domestic Claims. She was like......"hmmmmm, that's odd.....I have no idea. But I can assure you the claim was processed and paid today".

This is certainly a prime example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. That's your USPS! I'm not buying any of it until I see a check in my mailbox. I am encouraged tho that she had all my info and was able to give me a check #.

Postmaster General Fuckup Wrote:
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> Yikes......OP here.
>
> So I go to the USPS website this morning, enter my
> tracking number, go to claims page, NO RECORD OF
> ANY CLAIM FILED! This is after I was told
> yesterday by a living breathing person (I think)
> that the claim was processed and check would be
> issued in 48 hours.
>
> So, being curious, I call my special magic direct
> line to USPS claims and inquire. The lady I spoke
> to gave me the check number, had my address, told
> me the check was for $50 (which was the amount of
> the insurance I had) and said it was processed
> today. I asked why there is no record of the claim
> on the USPS website under Domestic Claims. She was
> like......"hmmmmm, that's odd.....I have no idea.
> But I can assure you the claim was processed and
> paid today".
>
> This is certainly a prime example of the left hand
> not knowing what the right hand is doing. That's
> your USPS! I'm not buying any of it until I see a
> check in my mailbox. I am encouraged tho that she
> had all my info and was able to give me a check #.

NOT defending this inexcusably stupid and incompetent behavior, but here's my guess (assuming the person on the phone wasn't lying or just plain wrong):
some moron wrote the system such that once it gets paid--as in, the check is mailed--it's deleted (or, hopefully, archived). Because, see, it's "done" from their perspective, nothing more for them to do, so why would they keep it around? And nobody user-tested it, nobody with a brain reviewed it, so...that's how it works. And of course once the project is complete and blessed, nobody is going to fix it!

You'd be horrified to see the level of turnover and incompetence in large corporations' IT departments. Half the time it's hard to decide whether it's better or worse that everyone on a project has been fired or quit.

I guess this kind of blows the bullshit Ask USPS was trying to feed us out of the water. Wasn't he/she the one who said these claims take 3-6 months to be resolved?

Congrats OP. Glad to see someone succeed in forcing the post office to pay for their fuck ups. They get away with shit way too often.

Kku4x Wrote:
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> I guess this kind of blows the bullshit Ask USPS
> was trying to feed us out of the water. Wasn't
> he/she the one who said these claims take 3-6
> months to be resolved?


No, it doesn't. Sometimes it's relatively easier. Sometimes it's not. It's still a pain in the ass and doesn't let you just push it off to the buyer as was the question in the OP.

And what I said was related to lost vs damage packages:

> It's even worse when they just completely lose stuff.
> That's basically impossible or at best a 3-6 month wait
> for your money back.

If you don't have a package in hand, then they'll usually want to wait 45 days to see if it turns up before they'll even start to do anything. Then if it's a higher dollar value they'll want proof of ownership/value which usually will take several rounds of back and forth and evaluation on their side which will take more time.

Conclusion. So less than 10 days after filing the claim with USPS, I received a check for $50 which was the max amount of coverage I paid for. I give the USPS high praise for taking care of this promptly. Especially in light of all the stories I heard on here about 30 days 60 days or more to get reimbursed.

However, I do not give the USPS high praise for destroying what I mailed. If you're just gonna break peoples shit all the time, find a new job. Like in a rock quarry.

A happy ending. But a pretty complete process fail.

NOT saying it wasn't worth it -- your call, not ours -- but how much time do you think you spent chasing that $50? It should have been, like, less. WAY less.